In this video, we look at the World of Dragon Ball in more detail. Credit Thumbnail Source - pinterest.com/pin/675962225315813179 (The only one I could find)
Goku had at least a year of more experience with super Saiyan than Vegeta did, plus he also cared a lot more about training his son than Vegeta did. Better teacher I suppose
People tend to forget that Gohan's potential was UNLEASHED earlier on Namek, some of it was unlocked. indicating that his power would of been easier to come out, since it wasn't locked away. So training for it wasn't going to take forever, vs Trunks who never had such luxury
@@dominiquerobinson8888 Yet had nobody to train with, and nobody to push him You can train for several years alone and still get outperformed by someone else that has a training Partner
@@doomknight2542 If Trunks trained with Goku he would got to probably around his full ssj level. But ssj 2 at that point was just something for Gohan due to his rage
Yeah I don't think Toriyama makes it this critical lol. It just wouldn't have been as great if Trunks did it first lol, it was perfect for Gohan and the way it happened.
Bro i always wished that trunks went in the time chamber with piccolo. Like vegeta could have been typical vegeta and wanted to go in alone. The potential trunks could have had that was missed. Man......
@Nestle245 I think it's pretty clear, at least in the anime, that they were drawing a parallel between Trunks and Gohan. How all Trunks wanted was to know his dad, but got nothing out of a whole year alone with him. Meanwhile, Goku spent most of his time in the chamber nurturing Gohan's power. Which is again drawn a parallel to Future Gohan, who still had that Gohan-only special potential, but didn't get that crucial support at the most crucial time. Vegeta doesn't show any care for Trunks until he's dead. Goku gives up his own life to protect Gohan, and even supports him from the afterlife. Future Trunks was always a tragic character, a reflection of Gohan, just as kid Trunks is a reflection of Goten. I also don't think Toriyama started "winging it" until after the Cell Saga. There is too much payoff to too many throughlines that it would take forever to explain them all. Callbacks like Goku realizing he was the one who killed his grandpa are not the and kind of writing as Super going "remember that character?" It's clear imo that he intended for Piccolo to be Gokus true rival (just compare their backgrounds) and that's why Piccolo specifically bonds with Gohan specifically... he may not have had "Cell" figured out when he introduced us to Gohan, but I do think he had the ending of the series with that passing of the torch in mind... but everyone loves Goku and Vegeta, so we got the Buu Saga, a far inferior ending imo, and then Super. I think the reason it felt like he winged it so much is bc he put so much care into everything from the King Piccolo to Cell arcs and how those 4 arcs tied the whole series up that, once the decision was made to keep going, he had kinda already paid off everything he was supposed to, except for Goku and Vegeta settling a score that only existed in Vegeta's mind. That's why Piccolo's final power upgrade for 25 YEARS was when he reunited with Kami, which again ties him back to Goku AND Gohan much stronger than any connection Vegeta had to them. This is why I'm extremely happy that his final major contribution to his iconic series was bringing Piccolo and Gohan back up to a relevant level, no matter how he had to get there. It's like Super Hero is a love letter to that original vision with the Cell Saga Ending, and I am so happy about that, now more than ever
The anime clearly shows the father son dynamic between the two within the hyperbolic time chamber by only giving bits, but enough that you can clearly see why two advanced wayyyy further than the other two - even as a kid it was clear why Trunks didn't go full 2, just like Vegeta didn't. Would've been a totally different plot and story if Vegeta and Trunks worked together like Goku and Gohan did. But like you said, it favored the plot to write Vegeta and Trunks being stunted in this way. You summed it up quite perfectly, lol.
In my opinion what makes Young Gohan surpass Future Trunks so quickly was his mentors......Gohan had great teachers that always help him to surpass his limits plus his natural potential been a human / Saiyan hybrid, all the years training with Piccolo and Goku helps a lot, but is the time in the Time Chamber that was key.....while Gohan had Goku support and both train to unlock their potentials, Vegeta pretty much enter the room with Trunks for obligation, he never try or attempted to train with his son, pretty much they trained separated, maybe occasionally spar but out of necessity to test their progress, this lead to Trunk naively assume he found a technique to surpass his dad, if Vegeta and Trunks trained together, Vegeta would have told Trunks his error just like Goku did to Gohan.....also they would have collaborated with each other trying to help the other to grow, but no, Vegeta close himself to Trunks because of how prideful he is, and Trunks been out of respect, naivety or fear, never show Vegeta what he assume was he unlocking his potential, While Goku and Gohan trust each other, Vegeta and Trunks did not.
ngl I would love a what if story of Trunks showing off Super Trunks to Vegeta in the Time Chamber. How would that effect their training/relationship. And would Trunks have come out of the chamber stronger.
Short answer: a lack of effective mentoring. Future Gohan, though he meant well, just didn't have the tools necessary to truly train someone, especially since his only *real* training was with Piccolo. Then there was training on his own, which can only do so much Vegeta, meanwhile? He likely just flat out neglected Trunks in the time chamber, focusing himself. Why ELSE would he not know that Vegeta had unlocked Grade 3, or that its flaws caused him to ignore it in favor of Grade 2? And then once it was back to the future, I doubt either of the Kais could give him too much training before they died at Dabura's hands.
I also think that Grade 2 and 3 along with Super Saiyan 2 and 3 are two sides of the same coin and thus directly contradict each other. Grade 2 is compressing energy into your muscles for more raw strength at the cost of speed. While Super Saiyan 2 is letting all that energy out and letting it flow using the concentrated anger used to obtain it. That's why Super Saiyan 2 is stronger, it's not just bulking up it's both controlling and letting your Ki explode at the same time. Grade 3 funnily enough has the same problem as Super Saiyan 3 but reversed. Super Saiyan 3 gives your Ki a massive boost by letting it explode out but burns your physical stamina in exchange. Grade 3 is compressing your Ki like a water balloon, creating huge muscles and giving you ridiculous amounts of physical strength. The only problem being that there's only so much you can roid up with your Ki before it gets wildly inefficient. Ironically enough, making you so slow that it doesn't matter if you're looking like Mister Olympia if you can't hit shit. The funniest thing though is that Super Saiyan 3 and Grade 3 ultimately fell out of use for the same reason. Like yeah you could theoretically perfect both of them, but in the end Super Saiyan is just gonna be better because its ceiling is at worst only gonna be slightly worse than Super Saiyan 3 and drastically more efficient.
If Trunks had gotten a few more months of training with Future Gohan it would have made a huge difference. He was SO CLOSE to being able to turn Super Saiyan before Gohan died., but he never got to train in actual super saiyan form with anyone.
honestly just chucked it up to the training they did gohan got better training that trunks did its why when trunks and vegeta came out of the chamber they couldn't match up to perfect cell at all but when goku and gohan came out because of the way they trained not only were they stronger but gohan got close to ssj2 faster than trunks did. Still I liked how Kakarot explained how trunks got ssj2 that was pretty clever
@@dylancox2157: He attained ssj2 because 1. the stress of Future Babidi and Dabura being rather close to undoing everything he’s fought to protect and desperation to maintain that peace. 2. The shock and anger at the deaths of Supreme Kai and Kibito.
Remember tho Gohan had his potential unlocked by Guru and Grand Kai. That's probably what gave him the edge over Trunks. I'm sure Trunks could do the same if he had his potentials unlocked maybe even find a form that rivals Gohans the ways Vegitas ultra ego rivals Gokus ultra instinct
These are my 3 reasons as for why he never achieved the higher power younger: His only master was Gohan, who was ALSO having a massive mental block himself, tormented whit the Androids and getting desperate, Gohan was too immature when he lost Goku and Piccolo, he needed a LOT more training. 2. Trunks only learned by watching other people, never got REALLY trained, imagine if Goku took Trunks and Gohan to the Time Chamber, we DEFINITELY could have gotten a SSJ2 combo (i even have a theory that Goku himself could have achieved SSJ2 but decided not to because when he saw Gohan he realized he didn't really need to) 3. Vegeta did harm Trunks progress a massive fuck ton, Vegeta's training was ALL about himself, while Goku was ALL about Gohan, and Vegeta only knows how to brute force things, so when he finally got the power he wanted he thought it was the maximum power because of his pride, meanwhile Goku knew there was WAY more than that. Hell SSJ3 might as well be a glitch because realistically speaking no LIVING saiyan (unless they are a fusion because Fusions have near unlimited Ki) can ACHIEVE such power, all because Goku uses logic.
I feel like Goku is so competitive and pushing his limits that he would not want to ever see a level and not want to achieve it. Maybe he knew he could reach that level at some point but not before the Cell Games.
@@mka6245 I think Goku was reflecting on Gohan, he was probably thinking that Gohan could reach that level of power faster than him, so he decided to fully focus on the potential Gohan showed.
I love this answer.. if people go back and watch the cell game saga they'll realize Vegeta was training to increase JUST the strength factor of the Ssj form but Goku was thinking about the endurance factor of Ssj basically staying in ssj form for prolonged periods of time and this was probably the key to going further up the ladder in terms of the ssj form
Trunks: "Why couldn't I get Super Saiyan 2?" Toriyama: "Due to my plot power and writing. Basically I forbidden you from getting this power until much later also you're not that popular unlike Gohan."
Every one wanted to know who the guy with the purple hair was at the start music was with the sword. But it kept resetting for like 2 years because of translations I found out later after high school after the Frieza Saga back to the Saiyan Saga all over again.. So yeah, he yeah when the android Saga finally came out it was quite popular. But a lot of people got sick of the resetting by then.
I saw Gohan turn SSJ2 in Okinawa back in ‘93, changed my life. Still have it from a recording on VHS. Original Japanese commercials and all. RIP Toriyama
the mentor thing is pretty bullshit lets be real here, at best you can find the excuse in the general mood that they had so in the future they would be weaker and with less potential because always distressed. Gohan in super does 1 pushup and reaches beerus in power, he is bullshit and his future counterpard should have been too. future gohan trained years and years and was barely a super sayian while present gohan does nothing and he is as strong as mui goku. the mentor excuse is pretty bad. every excuse is pretty bad lets be real here, not to mention that future goku never used kaio to talk to gohan and maybe tell him about the time chamber or talk to the namekians to get revived with porunga. the whole android arc is FULL of plotholes . You say that consistency is important in training and present gohan does half a fight and suddenly grows as strong as goku and vegeta the ones training every day with gods and angels .
Your first mistake is trying to use Super to make sense of anything, when Super is absolutely illogical. Secondly, mentoring is always shown to have a huge effect on characters. They get their biggest power boosts when training with a mentor. Even mentors that are physically weaker than them. Future Gohan, when he was 5 years old, only had 6 months of mentoring from a 9 year old Piccolo. And a potential unlock from a 500+ year old Namekian Guru. Future Trunks was mentored by this very inexperienced Gohan. And it shows. If you want to consider Super, then consider that this version of Gohan had the same mentoring and potential unlock as above, but also trained 3 years with Piccolo (fused with Nail, giving this Piccolo a LOT more experience and knowledge), and a SSJ Goku (who has had many mentors). Another full year training with Goku, learning specifically how to MASTER the Super Saiyan form. Had his potential unlocked a second time by an Supreme Kai who had fused with a Witch. And then went on to have further mentoring from Piccolo (fused with Nail and Kami, which would give this Piccolo vastly more experience and knowledge), and had participated in many battles against various foes with all sorts of strange abilities. Gohan in Super is VASTLY more experienced than Future Trunks or Future Gohan. With magical power boosts/potential unlocks on top of that.
If we accept that SSJ Rage is a Pseudo God Form, then it absolutely argues in favour of Trunks' potential. Because that means within the short span of time the Arc takes place, Trunks' body had already begun to adapt to and replicate the power of God Ki through his extremely limited exposure to God Ki users in Vegeta, Goku, and Black. Thats pretty impressive if you ask me. If you choose to believe it, it makes even more sense given that Saiyans grow the fastest during arduous battle; look at how Goku and Vegeta's powers grew within the Tournament of power. So its not as much of an asspull either if viewed from that perspective.
You're correct about the issue being the writing. In my opinion, the reason was that, at the time of writing the Cell saga, there were no more plans for more DBZ on the cards. Therefore, what later became known as "Super Saiyan 2" was meant to be a Gohan-specific form: his rage channelled through his Super Saiyan power. It was only after the decisions was made to create more DBZ with the Buu Saga that it got retconned into a generic form, and given to Goku and Vegeta as well.
I think one of the biggest reasons why the future Gohan and Trunks couldn’t access Super Saiyan Two is because they simply didn’t know how. Goku spent a full year trying to discover how to obtain it. Because it’s more than just getting angry and having a high Ki output. Super Saiyan Two is a mastery of Super Saiyan. Meaning your body also had to maintain that level of power. Like the creator of this video said. You need the conditioning to have it otherwise you got a smaller version of a Broly problem. Even Goku said he couldn’t have rational thoughts in Super Saiyan when he fought Frieza. That’s why he had Gohan leave and remember Goku had the power of ESP too, and read minds. His mental fortitude is nothing to sneeze at. Either way, Future Gohan and Trubks never considered the possibility of Super Saiyan Two. And that’s why Trunks thought he could use pumped up muscles. Experience matters. Like the OP said.
Possible reason (for me): 1. Gohan has a lot of battle experience with different beings in base form, thus giving him high zenkai boost (Trunks only has his experience with the Androids). 2. Gohan has an incredible amount of S-cells since birth (manifesting in the high battle power during the fight with Raditz) 3. Gohan has mentors who supervise his trainings (Trunks only has Mirai Gohan). 4. Gohan has his potential unlocked in Planet Namek (Trunks did not experienced it). 4. Goku is encouraging Gohan to surpass him (In Trunks case, if he surpass Vegeta, it will hurt his ego).
My theory is that you have to master ssj1 before being able to go ssj2 apart from the potential aspect obviously. Thats why Vegeta didnt go ssj2 against cell when cell killed trunks. He just went basic ssj1 (grade 1) with rage buff. Vegeta and Trunks learned mssj (mastered aka grade 4 ssj) after the cell games and then in a specific situation they achieved ssj2
It's because of Chi Chi!! Ok, jokes aside, also, Gohan had his potential lifted by The Highest Elder during the Namek Arc. This could be also a factor as to why he is one step further than Future Trunks, plus of course with more fighting experience during the Frieza Arc. And perhaps the conditions were met during his training in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. I mean Goku was training in there with him and saw something, if not, why would he believe in Gohan and let him fight Perfect Cell.
I HATE the way Trunks dies in the cell games. Should have actual fight Cell instead of the random sneak attack blast. Have him try and protect Gohan who’s frozen in shock and then Trunks puts up a fight for a few minutes (seconds?). Can have Vegeta too frozen to help to add to his own guilt
as someone who though (i was strong) my mentality changed one year ago after i started learning Boxing and counite to learn and Train to this day when you have a mentor and Sparing partners that change it Tests a persons Limits and makes a person Question him or herself how to improve in Trunks case he never had a proper mentor Sure gohan was Ok but keep in mind goku didn't train gohan properly before he died which is only battle experience although hybrids sayins have more potential what the have in potential they Lacked in Not having a proper master to start with. Gohan started young and had piccolo first to Train in the Sayin Saga then 3 years with goku and piccolo and then 1 in the Time chamber with Goku to master and perfect Super Sayin. Trunks had a gohan that for all intoned only train with piccolo before the Sayin Saga then goku got sick and died Then The androids Attacked which means he mostly trained alone since piccolo died after Vegete not giving gohan Time to reach is potential to be a better mentor and then he died and Surviving is different than Training Trunks mental state has always been get stronger so i can bring peace and harmony. not to be stronger or want to be stronger and that what Dragonball super addresses in the end of the goku black arc when Vegeta had that talk with trunks.
Plus the future gohan dont have a lot of expirience training, him only have the year between the saiyan saga and a month with krilin, after this he dont train o serius train, his dad died and later all the z warrior died. If your master dont have a correct formation , your potencial have leser chance to show up-
@@fxailing1201 super saiyan is fueled by rage. Not God ki. God ki is fueled by genetics or knowledge of a gods teachings. Trunks is weak because he has not archived any other form besides super saiyan and he is definitely not getting God ki. Trunks pushed beyond his limit and reached SS2 out of rage.
Future trunks has always been one of my favorite characters, I think he's so underrated, in terms of power and screen time, I would love to see just a separate series on future trunks and his time from after the cells games to the time we meet him again in the black arc and even after that, I would love to see episodes that focus on him and his time line every now and then.
There’s a few points I have in mind that I feel should be brought up: 1. While being incredibly capable and strong fighters, Gohan and Trunks were not battle/ki geniuses quite like how their fathers were. It’s safe to assume that they never thought to try and achieve the ascended grades of super saiyan as Goku and Vegeta did, judging by the fact that trunks didn’t showcase grade 2 or higher until after the hyperbolic time chamber training. As you brought up in the video, it’s shown in DBZ that training with partners ALWAYS yields more power boost. Hence Trunks’ and Gohan’s massive jumps in the Cell Saga. Future Gohan lost Goku 2 years after Mexha Frieza due to the heart virus, and a year later, lost everyone else. He had nobody to train with at all, which undoubtedly hindered his progress. Gohan has also been shown to be the Prodigy of all Prodigies in the series. That’s why, as Goku states before Gohan’s fight with Cell, that gohan was always able to keep up with everyone and even surpass everyone while still being a kid
Present Gohan as had proper training since he was a kid.... ... And remember Gohan got some of his potential unlocked by Elder Guru alongside Krilling back on Namek! I bet that unlock is what allowed Gohan to temporarily rage and summon enough power to give 2nd Form Frieza some trouble lol. Plus, I don't think F. Trunks really completed his Z-Sword training, or at least compared to the degree of Gohan who unlocked his Ultimate/Mystic form. I suppose it did factor into F. Trunks getting SS2 shortly after his Z-Sword training then raging though.
Gohan just becoming a teen. So, maybe puberty had a part to play. Strong emotions he hasn't learned to control. So letting go, extreme reaction as a teen. New level of rage plus tapping into potential. Ss2
the "Vegeta has more natural potential than Goku" was always a plot armor-y aspect of the show that never panned out in practice. Like, when you look at their power levels before/after zenkai boosts, Vegeta usually gets less than 50% stronger while Goku gets hundreds of percentage points stronger. ex: Vegeta during the Saiyan Arc has a power level of 18,000. yet gets mogged by beast form Zarbon with a power level of 28,000. One Zenkai boost later, he still is no match for Recoome at 40,000. Meanwhile, Goku shows up to Namek after one zenkai boost and 7 days in a training capsule with a power level closer to 180,000 (there are some inconsistencies here. Vegeta's power level jumps up to 135,000 after eating a senzu bean, and we have to ask: do we count Kaio-Ken? but overall, Goku just seems to progress faster),
He achieved Perfected SSJ2 in the Super manga though and Vegeta achieved in the new DLC for Z Kakarot against SSJ3 Goku. And i dont know about Trunks potential compared to Gohan Sure his father is Vegeta(who we know for a FACT has far better genes than Goku but didnt start training till he was like 30 years old and doesnt train as smart) but his mother is Bulma,whereas Gohans mother is Chi Chi. So Trunks has the edge in paternal genetics but Gohan has a massive edge in maternal genetics. And his rage comes from his mother from the looks of it Gokus genes give him a base and Chi Chis emotions are like an amp on it of it Chi Chi is a fighter as was her father,its in their blood, Bulma is a spoiled rich girl Thats what low class and elite mean,a genetic foundation. But FAR more training,knowledge on how to train more effectively etc helped Goku be this strong.
It was always kind of hinted at in Dragon Ball that Gohan had massive potential that needed dragging out of him. Early on this was always achieved through rage
Gohan also had the benefit of being trained by multiple people for long periods of time. Trunks basically only had future Gohan. Vegeta never really trained him
My headcanon is that the SSJ2 transformation occurs when a SSJ1 becomes angry enough to transform. But in order for it to “count”, they need to have emotional control over SSJ1. Aka be a FullPower SuperSaiyan like Goku and Gohan when they came out the time chamber.
I think the answer is happiness. You cant feel despair and rage as much if your whole life was suffering. Trunks got strongest when Vegeta was around as it gave him a happiness avenue he didnt know of
I think it's because gohan and goku focused on perfecting base ssj instead of trying to evolve it. They stayed in ssj all the way to the cell games and even past that. Essentially, vegeta and trunks were training for drag racings while goku and gohan were training for an Indy 500.
Don't forget that in the alternate canon, Trunks hit SS1,2,3 and God with no problem. And SS Rage is confirmed more powerful than SS3. I have a feeling we'll see SSGod Trunks in Super eventually.
I will just add one little thing. The Guru powerup on Namek is another thing that Gohan had, that Trunks just did not. So part of my mind says that in the future timeline, Gohan never got the chance to get the power up from Guru on Namek, and this stunted him through the timeline. Meanwhile trunks never got it either, and so Past Gohan is able to eclipse both of them largely because of this one little thing.
To answer your question, the biggest indicator is that Goku & Gohan went into the time chamber after Trunks & Vegeta. They had the advantage of knowing that grades 2 & 3 were not the best option, so Goku decided to train on a different route. This was the correct choice, and Gohan greatly benefitted from their training. He mastered SSJ and got that much closer to SSJ2.
My theory: Future Trunks didn't have the right mind set at the time Gohan died in his timeline. By this I mean he didn't even know what peace and hope were, he only knew suffering. But at the time Babidi arrived he already enjoyed peace and the idea of someone taking that from him enraged him beyond everything giving him the push to go SS2.
Kid trunks is proof of what future trunks could've done early on with the right training and nourishment while future trunks is proof of the potential kod trunks has to grow into with the rights motivation
Well he did get SSJ Rage, which is the most OP normal SSJ transformation to date, made him go toe to toe with Super Saiyan Rose and even outperform him. Regarding SSJ2....Real answer. SSJ2 didn't exist at that point yet. Hell even Toriyama forgot that SSJ2 existed.
Let's be honest, while Future Trunks had a decent portion of his life watching people get wiped out by the androids, he never had Chi Chi crack down on him for an A- or running up the food bill like his father. Chi Chi = X-factor, Chi Chi's temper was multiplied into Gohan's rage upon genetic inheritance.
Its because goku is a genius when it comes to training. He went a route with gohan that ultimately led to ss2. When he chose to master the ss form and make it as effortless as being in base form, it left room for growth. Vegeta wasnt equipped to be a teacher like goku was. Had EVERYONE went back in for a second year in the chamber but switched partners, with goku taking trunks and vegeta taking gohan, There would've been improvements. i think trunks would've come out with the ss2 ability, and it wouldve been gohan that taught vegeta something when gohan, in his rage at how shitty vegeta is to everyone, on top of the extreme conditions in the chamber (which most people ive spoken to tend to forget goes from arctic cold to blazing hot, among other things) wouldve turned ss2 or at least showed a snippet of it, letting vegeta know that there is a whole new form to try to reach. I think in this series of events there wouldnt have been time for the trusty old vegeta moment "the thing is, i know youre playing me....." So when they were all said and done after a little over half a week, 4 drastically stronger super saiyans, all with mastered ss forms, wouldve EACH been able to qt least stand their ground or even possibly defeat perfect cell themselves. Goku would've lived, trunks couldve handled majin buu, and while its hard to say if ss3 wouldve been discovered earlier or at all... The group as a cohesive unit wouldve been better prepared for bojack, hiredigarn, janemba, etc. and since goku hadn't died, vegeta wouldve kept hos fighting edge, gohan never wouldve slacked off and become the weakest form of himself yet, and maybe even goku black wouldve had a run for his money. Who knows how other rhings wouldve played out .. Like would gohan still go to high school? If not, he never wpuldve met videl, pan would not exist, and who knows how goku wouldve gotten the needed energy for super saiyan god. Idk. A neat train of thought though.
Experience and a legit training partner. Gohan is younger but he’s seen way more combat than trunks. Plus he had goku and piccolo basically his whole life
Both of gohan’s parents are martial artist. Parental traits also matter as well. Take for example, Vegeta had raw talent and passed it onto trunks but Goku’s potential was also passed down to his sons.
The lifestyle and training make the most sense. Having strong and knowledgable mentors from a young age clearly played a huge role in drawing out Gohan's potential. The same is actually true of main timeline Trunks, he was the second youngest saiyan to ever achieve Super Saiyan. But despite the fact that Gohan has slacked off on his training after his battle with Cell, Trunks slacked off at an even earlier age. Future Gohan and Future Trunks both never achieved the kind of rapid growth that present Gohan did because they either trained by themselves, or briefly with each other at a significant power mismatch. I really hope that present Trunks and Goten decide to start training again after seeing firsthand what Gohan and Goku (and also Vegeta and Broly) are capable of now. iirc they have't been present for any major battles since Ressurection F so they've missed out on a lot. The older saiyans are all multiversally powerful at this point and I think their future battles are all going to take them all around the universe, if not the other universes. So in their absence it would be cool to see Trunks and Goten step up to be at least the primary defenders of the Earth if not Universe 7.
Yea the hybrid potential is one of the biggest what ifs in db(not including Gohan obv) cause we have all these great hybrid saiyans now but yet they keep focusing on gohans latent potential. I feel like instead they should make a new character arc for Gohan where he maybe learns how to balance fighting and being a family man now that he is a main player in super. Like we get it gohan has crazy potential how many times do we have to be told that. We literally have goten and trunks who have more potential than even gohan and yet they are in their mid teens and can still only go ssj its actually absurd
What if its also like training in real life, Trunks is always on attack mode in the future there was no time to rest and reset. Just like working out IRL, you need rest days and cheat days. Since Gohan in present day was able to train correctly by spending time with his family, having down time and training hard when he needed to he was able to do what future trunks didn't have the luxury to to in his time line. idk just thinking out loud, I love these videos you're making man, keep it up!
There's one very simple and very important factor here: Gohan's mastered super Saiyan form was far more powerful than Trunk's full strength at the time when Gohan achieved ssj2. The only one similar was Goku, and Goku doesn't get huge rage boosts like Gohan. And why did Gohan jump ahead of Trunks during training? Because Goku's training methodology was far superior to Vegeta's.
There was three different reasons that explain this difference already back in the Buu saga of DBZ, I'm surprised none of them got a mention here First, when Toriyama got asked how present trunks hit SS by age 10 while future trunks didn't manage it until being older (and their the same person, so same potential), Toriyama said it's because of "S-cells" which is a cheesy reason but short version is the more calm/relaxed/peaceful a saiyan is the more potential they have to rapidly grow stronger. Present Trunks had a decade of peace while training with Vegeta for fun, Gohan had a relatively peaceful childhood between the story arcs, and future trunks grew up in the apocalypse from 1 year old. So future trunks has the least "S-cells" thus most difficulty unlocking a new transformation. Second reason from the cell saga itself. Gohan had Goku guiding him to SS, and specifically training him to master that form. He didn't hit SS2 randomly or through natural growth, his training for cell SPECIFICALLY set him up for it (goku didn't know exactly how it would play out but he wanted Gohan ready to unleash his potential, and has good instincts about that stuff). Future Gohan never "mastered" SS the same way, and was just fighting to survive. And he tried teaching future trunks to turn SS but didn't understand it the way Goku did - goku successfully taught Gohan SS, future Gohan never quite got Trunks there until his death. So just from those two, gohan started out with less difficulty and had a better teacher for SS specifically. Third is that DB has always been trying to establish a theme of raw power being less important than skill and character. Anytime someone is confident they can't lose because they're that much stronger, they lose, or the opponent reveals some new technique or transformation that changes the balance. It's not overly successful with that message because it's shonen and huge power gaps are more dramatic and easier to write, but the series also constantly mocks the concept of power scaling in every arc. Future Trunks didn't think he could get stronger than SS until spending time with Goku and Vegeta. Gohan never questioned that he COULD be stronger. So Gohan being the one to hit SS2 and not Trunks mirrors Goku and Vegeta (vegeta wants to be better than anyone else, goku just wants to see how strong he can get)
Trunks never had a moment during his training where he NEEDED to transform due to the lack of an actually training partner. I honestly believe that had Vegeta went at it with everything he had in training with Trunks they BOTH could have unlocked SS2. Instead we get Trunks inadvertently wasting his time in the Chamber on a flawed form. Vegeta could have immediately pointed the flaw in it and corrected him. This knowledge however wouldn't have helped him much since he didn't push himself the way he could have had he trained with his son. He thought he could do it alone since that's how he achieved base Super Sayain, I mean he does achieve it alone, but not until 7 years later after rigorous solo training. Goku himself explains that's where one's true power comes from. Gohan didn't transform into SS2 until Android 16 explained that if he does not succeed, Cell will destroy everyone and everything he loves. That followed by his immediate death helped push Gohan into the transformastion. It wasn't as simple as Gohan getting mad.
Obviously gohan had a lot of help to achieve this power. He had his potantial unlocked. Twice. He trained in the time chamber as kid ect. So he definitely had a nice headstart.
I think it was just trunks focused on another branch of super saiyan. He didn't master ssj like goku and Gohan. He just focused on gaining power through super vegeta/ultra trunks transformations. And my theory is that ultra trunks was just unfinished. He temporarily turned ultra b4 he turned into his rage form, almost like ultra was the final step b4 rage.
Thanks! The way I see it, Future Trunks was intentionally stunted in his full potential by Akira Toriyama because Future Trunks wasn't the main protagonist, or directly related to the main protagonist. And I say this being a big fan of Future Trunks. He is my favorite DBZ character. That being said, I think that Toriyama only wanted Future Trunks to get strong enough to defeat Androids 17 and 18, and Imperfect Cell, in the dystopian future he came from. Personally, I wanted Future Trunks to evolve into the modern day Legendary Super Saiyan. Especially since his Super Saiyan Grade 3 form inspired Broly's look in the first DBZ BROLY movie. But we got what we got.
I agree with what you're saying! Same he's definitely one of my favourites (the Z Version). My fave overall is Vegeta. Then I love Trunks, Tien and Piccolo in Z! Thank you so much for the Super Thanks Boss! The Spirit Bomb power helps out each time! 💙💪🏻
My takeaway was always that everyone in the future timeline was weaker. Time travel meant all of the main timeline characters were stronger and more advanced (able to be advanced). Gohan is obviously much weaker in the future timeline but so are the androids (there are arguments about this). Even if it isnt just everyone is stronger at least with trunks: compared to main timeline vegeta, future vegeta is not as strong (less training, maybe not even super saiyan) when trunks was conceived. Main timeline trunks and goten are overpowered compared to kid gohan, future gohan and trunks. Goten could probably even beat younger future trunks at least after his training in the buu arc and main trunks was a lot stronger from training with vegeta, yet neither of them could go ssj2.
I think the reason why trunks couldn’t go ssj2 is because no one in that timeline knew there was something “even further beyond” but in present timeline goku knew that something lie in wait for Gohan, something “further beyond” and pushing towards that goal is how it was obtainable.
People forget vegeta had no trainers compared to goku. First time we really seen vegeta he was already outfighting conquering planets. And hasn’t been trained rather learned from experience. Hence why goku is more of a martial artists. But as we scene at yardrat with training vegeta really is a prodigy he easily surpassed what goku learned within the time spent. Gohan has had goku and piccolo and been around battles since a baby. Trunks not so much and even for future trunks it’s even worse
I think the basic answer is that Trunks never mastered Super Saiyan Grade 4, thus never mastered Super Saiyan 2 early. Gohan was training in the Time Chamber with Goku who always relied more on strategy than just sheer power unlike Vegeta, so Gohan always had the advantage in terms of mentors. This is made even clearer with the fact that Kid Trunks basically spent all his time training with Vegeta, and figured out Super Saiyan on his own, probably based on emulating his dad. But for kid Trunks it was still basically just a raw power boost rather than something devised through strategy like with Gohan.I don't think that potential has anything to do with Super Saiyan 2. I think that every Saiyan has the potential for Super Saiyan 2, but that it needs the right kinds of training to unlock, like mastering Super Saiyan Grade 4 for Super Saiyan 2, and getting deep in touch with your inner Saiyan ancestor roots to unlock Super Saiyan 3, or doing an ancient ritual or training with the gods to unlock Super Saiyan God and beyond.
One thing that you don’t seem to understand is that to truly unlock super saiyan 2, mastering super saiyan 1 is a prerequisite. Trunks never mastered super saiyan until super. He was relying on Grade 2, like Vegeta. Also, the Gohan who trained Trunks didn’t receive the Android prep-training from Goku. Future Gohan only had the training from Piccolo when he was a kid and maybe some training from Goku between study sessions. But main timeline Gohan got dedicated, constant training to get him ready for the androids arrival
It makes sense that the COT is accelerating the process with time dilation stuff and how doing it in the human world would not provide equal development.
Also there’s the fact that Super Saiyan 2 wasn’t even a thing when it first happened; it was just the true appearance of Gohan’s Super Saiyan form, with no more inhibitions on. Meaning it was unique to him.
As we saw with Caulifa, someone can achieve SS1 and then SS2 very quickly. I think it does have to do with understanding your Ki and technique. Cabba showed her how to reach SS1, and she learned it immediately
something I'd like to mention is how Goten was a Super Saiyan at 7 years old, potentially earlier since we never see the first time he transforms this is most likely due to the fact that Goku was in the Super Saiyan state when he was conceived 😭
I almost guarantee future trunks was training continuously throughout his childhood. He just didn't have the same latent potential as gohan. Definitely the mentorship helps, but I doubt it is lack of experience in his timeline
Gohan has the blood of the Ox King flowing in his veins
But that's His Grandfather , even if he has Three different species, we need to know If Ox-kings race has Special abilities or properties.
The Ox kings blood line is absolutely the difference maker in gohan being stronger lol.
The ox king is OP
@@guarinagarcia2424where do you think the Beast comes from? An Ox is a beast.
@@fxailing1201 Ox + Monkey =
Horned beast king Kong
Gohan just had better mentors and training. Vegeta didn’t exactly know what he was doing as much as Goku when it came to improving super saiyan
And yet he becomes stronger than goku
@@michaelmayers3622 wild statement ngl
@@michaelmayers3622Meat riding
You would know all about riding ,🤣
Gohan had more potential than Trunks as well
Goku had at least a year of more experience with super Saiyan than Vegeta did, plus he also cared a lot more about training his son than Vegeta did. Better teacher I suppose
People tend to forget that Gohan's potential was UNLEASHED earlier on Namek, some of it was unlocked. indicating that his power would of been easier to come out, since it wasn't locked away. So training for it wasn't going to take forever, vs Trunks who never had such luxury
But Trunks went in there already a ssj for far more years than gohan, plus was in the time chamber longer
WAS LOOKING FOR THIS COMMENT
@@dominiquerobinson8888 Yet had nobody to train with, and nobody to push him
You can train for several years alone and still get outperformed by someone else that has a training Partner
@@doomknight2542 According to Vegeta in Super they did train together. Gohan just got to ssj2 due to the rage/hidden potential that’s exclusive to him
@@doomknight2542 If Trunks trained with Goku he would got to probably around his full ssj level. But ssj 2 at that point was just something for Gohan due to his rage
DBZ: weaker that he should be
DBS: Stronger Than He Should Be
True.
Why do you think he's stronger than he should be in dbs ?
@@quietguyjosh4643he was strong enough to cut fused zamasu when he got super saiyan rage
@@tomsmithok with a spirit bomb sword Amp
@@Cure4BrainsBecause Gohan is ridiculously powerful while trunks isn’t
Bro really edited the word cope on the Time Machine
😂👍🏻
Coping is easy sensei@@SaiyanScholar
I wondered about that 😄
Short Answer - Plot
Long Answer - vegets neglected him
I was thinking the same.
Yeah I don't think Toriyama makes it this critical lol. It just wouldn't have been as great if Trunks did it first lol, it was perfect for Gohan and the way it happened.
Bro i always wished that trunks went in the time chamber with piccolo. Like vegeta could have been typical vegeta and wanted to go in alone. The potential trunks could have had that was missed. Man......
@Nestle245 I think it's pretty clear, at least in the anime, that they were drawing a parallel between Trunks and Gohan. How all Trunks wanted was to know his dad, but got nothing out of a whole year alone with him. Meanwhile, Goku spent most of his time in the chamber nurturing Gohan's power. Which is again drawn a parallel to Future Gohan, who still had that Gohan-only special potential, but didn't get that crucial support at the most crucial time. Vegeta doesn't show any care for Trunks until he's dead. Goku gives up his own life to protect Gohan, and even supports him from the afterlife.
Future Trunks was always a tragic character, a reflection of Gohan, just as kid Trunks is a reflection of Goten.
I also don't think Toriyama started "winging it" until after the Cell Saga. There is too much payoff to too many throughlines that it would take forever to explain them all. Callbacks like Goku realizing he was the one who killed his grandpa are not the and kind of writing as Super going "remember that character?" It's clear imo that he intended for Piccolo to be Gokus true rival (just compare their backgrounds) and that's why Piccolo specifically bonds with Gohan specifically... he may not have had "Cell" figured out when he introduced us to Gohan, but I do think he had the ending of the series with that passing of the torch in mind... but everyone loves Goku and Vegeta, so we got the Buu Saga, a far inferior ending imo, and then Super. I think the reason it felt like he winged it so much is bc he put so much care into everything from the King Piccolo to Cell arcs and how those 4 arcs tied the whole series up that, once the decision was made to keep going, he had kinda already paid off everything he was supposed to, except for Goku and Vegeta settling a score that only existed in Vegeta's mind. That's why Piccolo's final power upgrade for 25 YEARS was when he reunited with Kami, which again ties him back to Goku AND Gohan much stronger than any connection Vegeta had to them. This is why I'm extremely happy that his final major contribution to his iconic series was bringing Piccolo and Gohan back up to a relevant level, no matter how he had to get there. It's like Super Hero is a love letter to that original vision with the Cell Saga Ending, and I am so happy about that, now more than ever
The anime clearly shows the father son dynamic between the two within the hyperbolic time chamber by only giving bits, but enough that you can clearly see why two advanced wayyyy further than the other two - even as a kid it was clear why Trunks didn't go full 2, just like Vegeta didn't. Would've been a totally different plot and story if Vegeta and Trunks worked together like Goku and Gohan did. But like you said, it favored the plot to write Vegeta and Trunks being stunted in this way.
You summed it up quite perfectly, lol.
In my opinion what makes Young Gohan surpass Future Trunks so quickly was his mentors......Gohan had great teachers that always help him to surpass his limits plus his natural potential been a human / Saiyan hybrid, all the years training with Piccolo and Goku helps a lot, but is the time in the Time Chamber that was key.....while Gohan had Goku support and both train to unlock their potentials, Vegeta pretty much enter the room with Trunks for obligation, he never try or attempted to train with his son, pretty much they trained separated, maybe occasionally spar but out of necessity to test their progress, this lead to Trunk naively assume he found a technique to surpass his dad, if Vegeta and Trunks trained together, Vegeta would have told Trunks his error just like Goku did to Gohan.....also they would have collaborated with each other trying to help the other to grow, but no, Vegeta close himself to Trunks because of how prideful he is, and Trunks been out of respect, naivety or fear, never show Vegeta what he assume was he unlocking his potential, While Goku and Gohan trust each other, Vegeta and Trunks did not.
Great explanation!
ngl I would love a what if story of Trunks showing off Super Trunks to Vegeta in the Time Chamber. How would that effect their training/relationship. And would Trunks have come out of the chamber stronger.
So what you’re saying is…all timelines of Universe 7 would’ve been screwed if Yamcha ended up with Bulma
Well i think as long as Bulma survived long enough to create a time machine anyone could have gone back in time to give Goku the medicine
@@katrita1146
Future Trunks was probably the only reason Future Bulma was still alive
Dang, fate itself declared that Yamaha gets no b****es
@@Sjono isn't future gohan the one keeping them both alive?
@@lonerevenant
Who you think keeps Bulma alive after Gohan dies?
Short answer: a lack of effective mentoring.
Future Gohan, though he meant well, just didn't have the tools necessary to truly train someone, especially since his only *real* training was with Piccolo.
Then there was training on his own, which can only do so much
Vegeta, meanwhile? He likely just flat out neglected Trunks in the time chamber, focusing himself. Why ELSE would he not know that Vegeta had unlocked Grade 3, or that its flaws caused him to ignore it in favor of Grade 2?
And then once it was back to the future, I doubt either of the Kais could give him too much training before they died at Dabura's hands.
I also think that Grade 2 and 3 along with Super Saiyan 2 and 3 are two sides of the same coin and thus directly contradict each other. Grade 2 is compressing energy into your muscles for more raw strength at the cost of speed. While Super Saiyan 2 is letting all that energy out and letting it flow using the concentrated anger used to obtain it. That's why Super Saiyan 2 is stronger, it's not just bulking up it's both controlling and letting your Ki explode at the same time. Grade 3 funnily enough has the same problem as Super Saiyan 3 but reversed. Super Saiyan 3 gives your Ki a massive boost by letting it explode out but burns your physical stamina in exchange. Grade 3 is compressing your Ki like a water balloon, creating huge muscles and giving you ridiculous amounts of physical strength. The only problem being that there's only so much you can roid up with your Ki before it gets wildly inefficient. Ironically enough, making you so slow that it doesn't matter if you're looking like Mister Olympia if you can't hit shit.
The funniest thing though is that Super Saiyan 3 and Grade 3 ultimately fell out of use for the same reason. Like yeah you could theoretically perfect both of them, but in the end Super Saiyan is just gonna be better because its ceiling is at worst only gonna be slightly worse than Super Saiyan 3 and drastically more efficient.
@@Zeromaru42 it’s a shame too because I really wish they at least had it used like Master Roshi’s Bulked Up mode
If Trunks had gotten a few more months of training with Future Gohan it would have made a huge difference. He was SO CLOSE to being able to turn Super Saiyan before Gohan died., but he never got to train in actual super saiyan form with anyone.
honestly just chucked it up to the training they did gohan got better training that trunks did its why when trunks and vegeta came out of the chamber they couldn't match up to perfect cell at all but when goku and gohan came out because of the way they trained not only were they stronger but gohan got close to ssj2 faster than trunks did.
Still I liked how Kakarot explained how trunks got ssj2 that was pretty clever
How was that?
@@dylancox2157: He attained ssj2 because
1. the stress of Future Babidi and Dabura being rather close to undoing everything he’s fought to protect and desperation to maintain that peace.
2. The shock and anger at the deaths of Supreme Kai and Kibito.
So ... Future Trunka lived like the original saiyans, and Gohan lived like a human?
Remember tho Gohan had his potential unlocked by Guru and Grand Kai. That's probably what gave him the edge over Trunks. I'm sure Trunks could do the same if he had his potentials unlocked maybe even find a form that rivals Gohans the ways Vegitas ultra ego rivals Gokus ultra instinct
These are my 3 reasons as for why he never achieved the higher power younger:
His only master was Gohan, who was ALSO having a massive mental block himself, tormented whit the Androids and getting desperate, Gohan was too immature when he lost Goku and Piccolo, he needed a LOT more training.
2. Trunks only learned by watching other people, never got REALLY trained, imagine if Goku took Trunks and Gohan to the Time Chamber, we DEFINITELY could have gotten a SSJ2 combo (i even have a theory that Goku himself could have achieved SSJ2 but decided not to because when he saw Gohan he realized he didn't really need to)
3. Vegeta did harm Trunks progress a massive fuck ton, Vegeta's training was ALL about himself, while Goku was ALL about Gohan, and Vegeta only knows how to brute force things, so when he finally got the power he wanted he thought it was the maximum power because of his pride, meanwhile Goku knew there was WAY more than that.
Hell SSJ3 might as well be a glitch because realistically speaking no LIVING saiyan (unless they are a fusion because Fusions have near unlimited Ki) can ACHIEVE such power, all because Goku uses logic.
I feel like Goku is so competitive and pushing his limits that he would not want to ever see a level and not want to achieve it. Maybe he knew he could reach that level at some point but not before the Cell Games.
@@mka6245 I think Goku was reflecting on Gohan, he was probably thinking that Gohan could reach that level of power faster than him, so he decided to fully focus on the potential Gohan showed.
I love this answer.. if people go back and watch the cell game saga they'll realize Vegeta was training to increase JUST the strength factor of the Ssj form but Goku was thinking about the endurance factor of Ssj basically staying in ssj form for prolonged periods of time and this was probably the key to going further up the ladder in terms of the ssj form
Trunks: "Why couldn't I get Super Saiyan 2?"
Toriyama: "Due to my plot power and writing. Basically I forbidden you from getting this power until much later also you're not that popular unlike Gohan."
He was way more popular than Gohan when he was introduced
He's way popular gohsns shine was only cell games
Every one wanted to know who the guy with the purple hair was at the start music was with the sword. But it kept resetting for like 2 years because of translations I found out later after high school after the Frieza Saga back to the Saiyan Saga all over again.. So yeah, he yeah when the android Saga finally came out it was quite popular. But a lot of people got sick of the resetting by then.
@@francisgomes9976
But stopped being as popular as Gohan when Super Saiyan 2 was introduced.
Trunks and spiderman have occupied similar narrative spaces for the last 20 years.
I saw Gohan turn SSJ2 in Okinawa back in ‘93, changed my life. Still have it from a recording on VHS. Original Japanese commercials and all. RIP Toriyama
Does it help tgat gohan had his power unlocked by guru on namek?
It helps but Gohan was still weaker than Base Trunks before the time chamber.
@@SaiyanScholar still weaker at what point?? Are you talking about kid gohan?? Or adult gohan?
I’m still mad Future Trunks barely had any interaction with Goten in DBS
Goku died before goten was created that's why it was always trunks and Gohan
@@KALICOE
Future Trunks barely acknowledging Goten’s existence is a huge missed opportunity
@@Sjono how this his 1st time ever meeting him he just noticed he looked like goku that was the moment
@@KALICOE
Like I said, barely any meaningful interaction
Same
the mentor thing is pretty bullshit lets be real here, at best you can find the excuse in the general mood that they had so in the future they would be weaker and with less potential because always distressed. Gohan in super does 1 pushup and reaches beerus in power, he is bullshit and his future counterpard should have been too. future gohan trained years and years and was barely a super sayian while present gohan does nothing and he is as strong as mui goku. the mentor excuse is pretty bad. every excuse is pretty bad lets be real here, not to mention that future goku never used kaio to talk to gohan and maybe tell him about the time chamber or talk to the namekians to get revived with porunga. the whole android arc is FULL of plotholes . You say that consistency is important in training and present gohan does half a fight and suddenly grows as strong as goku and vegeta the ones training every day with gods and angels .
Your first mistake is trying to use Super to make sense of anything, when Super is absolutely illogical.
Secondly, mentoring is always shown to have a huge effect on characters. They get their biggest power boosts when training with a mentor. Even mentors that are physically weaker than them.
Future Gohan, when he was 5 years old, only had 6 months of mentoring from a 9 year old Piccolo. And a potential unlock from a 500+ year old Namekian Guru.
Future Trunks was mentored by this very inexperienced Gohan. And it shows.
If you want to consider Super, then consider that this version of Gohan had the same mentoring and potential unlock as above, but also trained 3 years with Piccolo (fused with Nail, giving this Piccolo a LOT more experience and knowledge), and a SSJ Goku (who has had many mentors). Another full year training with Goku, learning specifically how to MASTER the Super Saiyan form. Had his potential unlocked a second time by an Supreme Kai who had fused with a Witch. And then went on to have further mentoring from Piccolo (fused with Nail and Kami, which would give this Piccolo vastly more experience and knowledge), and had participated in many battles against various foes with all sorts of strange abilities.
Gohan in Super is VASTLY more experienced than Future Trunks or Future Gohan. With magical power boosts/potential unlocks on top of that.
The answer is
*Plot*
If we accept that SSJ Rage is a Pseudo God Form, then it absolutely argues in favour of Trunks' potential.
Because that means within the short span of time the Arc takes place, Trunks' body had already begun to adapt to and replicate the power of God Ki through his extremely limited exposure to God Ki users in Vegeta, Goku, and Black.
Thats pretty impressive if you ask me.
If you choose to believe it, it makes even more sense given that Saiyans grow the fastest during arduous battle; look at how Goku and Vegeta's powers grew within the Tournament of power. So its not as much of an asspull either if viewed from that perspective.
It definitely was god ki mix with the spirit bomb
@@KALICOE Spirit bomb??
@theonetruefusion8533 yep he took everyone power and goku was like vegeta this is like the spirit bomb let's help
@@KALICOE the spirit Bomb hasn't been used since the end of Dragon Ball? not even once during super
@@theonetruefusion8533top?? He used it against jiren and got it sent back to him thats how he unlocked ui in the first place
Your break downs be fire 🔥
I wonder if we'll see future trunks canonicaly in the future
We technically can’t since they changed that version of the would be future for the present trunks
cause trunks didn't snap out like gohan. gohan just makes every transformation look easy with a snap
You're correct about the issue being the writing. In my opinion, the reason was that, at the time of writing the Cell saga, there were no more plans for more DBZ on the cards. Therefore, what later became known as "Super Saiyan 2" was meant to be a Gohan-specific form: his rage channelled through his Super Saiyan power. It was only after the decisions was made to create more DBZ with the Buu Saga that it got retconned into a generic form, and given to Goku and Vegeta as well.
I think one of the biggest reasons why the future Gohan and Trunks couldn’t access Super Saiyan Two is because they simply didn’t know how.
Goku spent a full year trying to discover how to obtain it. Because it’s more than just getting angry and having a high Ki output. Super Saiyan Two is a mastery of Super Saiyan. Meaning your body also had to maintain that level of power. Like the creator of this video said. You need the conditioning to have it otherwise you got a smaller version of a Broly problem. Even Goku said he couldn’t have rational thoughts in Super Saiyan when he fought Frieza. That’s why he had Gohan leave and remember Goku had the power of ESP too, and read minds. His mental fortitude is nothing to sneeze at.
Either way, Future Gohan and Trubks never considered the possibility of Super Saiyan Two. And that’s why Trunks thought he could use pumped up muscles. Experience matters. Like the OP said.
Possible reason (for me): 1. Gohan has a lot of battle experience with different beings in base form, thus giving him high zenkai boost (Trunks only has his experience with the Androids). 2. Gohan has an incredible amount of S-cells since birth (manifesting in the high battle power during the fight with Raditz) 3. Gohan has mentors who supervise his trainings (Trunks only has Mirai Gohan). 4. Gohan has his potential unlocked in Planet Namek (Trunks did not experienced it). 4. Goku is encouraging Gohan to surpass him (In Trunks case, if he surpass Vegeta, it will hurt his ego).
Real reason: it's whatever the writers want
My theory is that you have to master ssj1 before being able to go ssj2 apart from the potential aspect obviously. Thats why Vegeta didnt go ssj2 against cell when cell killed trunks. He just went basic ssj1 (grade 1) with rage buff.
Vegeta and Trunks learned mssj (mastered aka grade 4 ssj) after the cell games and then in a specific situation they achieved ssj2
RIP to Akira Toryiama 🕊️🙏🏽
It's because of Chi Chi!!
Ok, jokes aside, also, Gohan had his potential lifted by The Highest Elder during the Namek Arc. This could be also a factor as to why he is one step further than Future Trunks, plus of course with more fighting experience during the Frieza Arc. And perhaps the conditions were met during his training in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. I mean Goku was training in there with him and saw something, if not, why would he believe in Gohan and let him fight Perfect Cell.
I HATE the way Trunks dies in the cell games. Should have actual fight Cell instead of the random sneak attack blast. Have him try and protect Gohan who’s frozen in shock and then Trunks puts up a fight for a few minutes (seconds?). Can have Vegeta too frozen to help to add to his own guilt
Toriyama and Toei: “I forgor”
Toyotaro: “I forgor the built up to his new form”
Love the idea behind Goku’s training with Gohan in the Time Chamber. Raise the floor to raise the ceiling.
as someone who though (i was strong) my mentality changed one year ago after i started learning Boxing and counite to learn and Train to this day when you have a mentor and Sparing partners that change it Tests a persons Limits and makes a person Question him or herself how to improve in Trunks case he never had a proper mentor Sure gohan was Ok but keep in mind goku didn't train gohan properly before he died which is only battle experience although hybrids sayins have more potential what the have in potential they Lacked in Not having a proper master to start with.
Gohan started young and had piccolo first to Train in the Sayin Saga then 3 years with goku and piccolo and then 1 in the Time chamber with Goku to master and perfect Super Sayin.
Trunks had a gohan that for all intoned only train with piccolo before the Sayin Saga then goku got sick and died Then The androids Attacked which means he mostly trained alone since piccolo died after Vegete not giving gohan Time to reach is potential to be a better mentor and then he died and Surviving is different than Training Trunks mental state has always been get stronger so i can bring peace and harmony. not to be stronger or want to be stronger and that what Dragonball super addresses in the end of the goku black arc when Vegeta had that talk with trunks.
Plus the future gohan dont have a lot of expirience training, him only have the year between the saiyan saga and a month with krilin, after this he dont train o serius train, his dad died and later all the z warrior died. If your master dont have a correct formation , your potencial have leser chance to show up-
The real reason is that Toriyama didn’t come up with SSJ2 until Cell’s tournament.
trunks didn't master ssj1 like goku and gohan. if you watched and read the manga you would know.
Trunks is weak in Z because he uses KI to keep his hair moisturised
😂😂😂
Thats dumb. He is weak because he does not have enough rage in him like gohan and goku. Rage makes SS1- SS2-SS3 more stronger.
@@JediMasterKanon cap
@@fxailing1201 super saiyan is fueled by rage. Not God ki. God ki is fueled by genetics or knowledge of a gods teachings. Trunks is weak because he has not archived any other form besides super saiyan and he is definitely not getting God ki. Trunks pushed beyond his limit and reached SS2 out of rage.
@@JediMasterKanon nope!
Z makes sense
Super doesnt
Simple as that
Exactly and Also super Sucks
Wow you really went in depth with it!!!
It’s simple Gothan had the rage of chi chi flowing through his veins
Future trunks has always been one of my favorite characters, I think he's so underrated, in terms of power and screen time, I would love to see just a separate series on future trunks and his time from after the cells games to the time we meet him again in the black arc and even after that, I would love to see episodes that focus on him and his time line every now and then.
There’s a few points I have in mind that I feel should be brought up:
1. While being incredibly capable and strong fighters, Gohan and Trunks were not battle/ki geniuses quite like how their fathers were. It’s safe to assume that they never thought to try and achieve the ascended grades of super saiyan as Goku and Vegeta did, judging by the fact that trunks didn’t showcase grade 2 or higher until after the hyperbolic time chamber training.
As you brought up in the video, it’s shown in DBZ that training with partners ALWAYS yields more power boost. Hence Trunks’ and Gohan’s massive jumps in the Cell Saga. Future Gohan lost Goku 2 years after Mexha Frieza due to the heart virus, and a year later, lost everyone else. He had nobody to train with at all, which undoubtedly hindered his progress. Gohan has also been shown to be the Prodigy of all Prodigies in the series. That’s why, as Goku states before Gohan’s fight with Cell, that gohan was always able to keep up with everyone and even surpass everyone while still being a kid
Present Gohan as had proper training since he was a kid....
... And remember Gohan got some of his potential unlocked by Elder Guru alongside Krilling back on Namek!
I bet that unlock is what allowed Gohan to temporarily rage and summon enough power to give 2nd Form Frieza some trouble lol.
Plus, I don't think F. Trunks really completed his Z-Sword training, or at least compared to the degree of Gohan who unlocked his Ultimate/Mystic form.
I suppose it did factor into F. Trunks getting SS2 shortly after his Z-Sword training then raging though.
BOTH, of Gohans parents, IE, the sources of his genetics, were both fighters from the same early age as when Gohan started his martial arts training.
Thank you for the video!
Gohan just becoming a teen. So, maybe puberty had a part to play. Strong emotions he hasn't learned to control. So letting go, extreme reaction as a teen. New level of rage plus tapping into potential. Ss2
That intro was fire. Old vibes, fr. Shoutout BT3.
the "Vegeta has more natural potential than Goku" was always a plot armor-y aspect of the show that never panned out in practice. Like, when you look at their power levels before/after zenkai boosts, Vegeta usually gets less than 50% stronger while Goku gets hundreds of percentage points stronger.
ex: Vegeta during the Saiyan Arc has a power level of 18,000. yet gets mogged by beast form Zarbon with a power level of 28,000. One Zenkai boost later, he still is no match for Recoome at 40,000. Meanwhile, Goku shows up to Namek after one zenkai boost and 7 days in a training capsule with a power level closer to 180,000 (there are some inconsistencies here. Vegeta's power level jumps up to 135,000 after eating a senzu bean, and we have to ask: do we count Kaio-Ken? but overall, Goku just seems to progress faster),
He achieved Perfected SSJ2 in the Super manga though and Vegeta achieved in the new DLC for Z Kakarot against SSJ3 Goku.
And i dont know about Trunks potential compared to Gohan
Sure his father is Vegeta(who we know for a FACT has far better genes than Goku but didnt start training till he was like 30 years old and doesnt train as smart) but his mother is Bulma,whereas Gohans mother is Chi Chi.
So Trunks has the edge in paternal genetics but Gohan has a massive edge in maternal genetics.
And his rage comes from his mother from the looks of it
Gokus genes give him a base and Chi Chis emotions are like an amp on it of it
Chi Chi is a fighter as was her father,its in their blood, Bulma is a spoiled rich girl
Thats what low class and elite mean,a genetic foundation.
But FAR more training,knowledge on how to train more effectively etc helped Goku be this strong.
0:38 Who is this Mysterious Youth guy onscreen and why aren’t you making a video about him?
It was always kind of hinted at in Dragon Ball that Gohan had massive potential that needed dragging out of him. Early on this was always achieved through rage
Gohan also had the benefit of being trained by multiple people for long periods of time. Trunks basically only had future Gohan. Vegeta never really trained him
@@TheDeadlyTikkaman gohan was born for it he defeated garlic jr at like 5 when nobody else could 😂😭😭
My headcanon is that the SSJ2 transformation occurs when a SSJ1 becomes angry enough to transform. But in order for it to “count”, they need to have emotional control over SSJ1. Aka be a FullPower SuperSaiyan like Goku and Gohan when they came out the time chamber.
I think the answer is happiness. You cant feel despair and rage as much if your whole life was suffering. Trunks got strongest when Vegeta was around as it gave him a happiness avenue he didnt know of
I think it's because gohan and goku focused on perfecting base ssj instead of trying to evolve it. They stayed in ssj all the way to the cell games and even past that. Essentially, vegeta and trunks were training for drag racings while goku and gohan were training for an Indy 500.
Don't forget that in the alternate canon, Trunks hit SS1,2,3 and God with no problem. And SS Rage is confirmed more powerful than SS3. I have a feeling we'll see SSGod Trunks in Super eventually.
Trunks just isn't as angry as Gohan. It just comes to that. He still gets SSj2 in Super.
We need more trunks in super 2 he's my favorite character in dragon ball and I'd hate to see his potential be wasted
I will just add one little thing. The Guru powerup on Namek is another thing that Gohan had, that Trunks just did not. So part of my mind says that in the future timeline, Gohan never got the chance to get the power up from Guru on Namek, and this stunted him through the timeline. Meanwhile trunks never got it either, and so Past Gohan is able to eclipse both of them largely because of this one little thing.
it was because he couldn’t harness the anger tingle in his back XD
To answer your question, the biggest indicator is that Goku & Gohan went into the time chamber after Trunks & Vegeta. They had the advantage of knowing that grades 2 & 3 were not the best option, so Goku decided to train on a different route. This was the correct choice, and Gohan greatly benefitted from their training. He mastered SSJ and got that much closer to SSJ2.
My theory:
Future Trunks didn't have the right mind set at the time Gohan died in his timeline. By this I mean he didn't even know what peace and hope were, he only knew suffering.
But at the time Babidi arrived he already enjoyed peace and the idea of someone taking that from him enraged him beyond everything giving him the push to go SS2.
Kid trunks is proof of what future trunks could've done early on with the right training and nourishment while future trunks is proof of the potential kod trunks has to grow into with the rights motivation
Well he did get SSJ Rage, which is the most OP normal SSJ transformation to date, made him go toe to toe with Super Saiyan Rose and even outperform him.
Regarding SSJ2....Real answer. SSJ2 didn't exist at that point yet.
Hell even Toriyama forgot that SSJ2 existed.
Let's be honest, while Future Trunks had a decent portion of his life watching people get wiped out by the androids, he never had Chi Chi crack down on him for an A- or running up the food bill like his father. Chi Chi = X-factor, Chi Chi's temper was multiplied into Gohan's rage upon genetic inheritance.
Its because goku is a genius when it comes to training. He went a route with gohan that ultimately led to ss2. When he chose to master the ss form and make it as effortless as being in base form, it left room for growth. Vegeta wasnt equipped to be a teacher like goku was. Had EVERYONE went back in for a second year in the chamber but switched partners, with goku taking trunks and vegeta taking gohan, There would've been improvements. i think trunks would've come out with the ss2 ability, and it wouldve been gohan that taught vegeta something when gohan, in his rage at how shitty vegeta is to everyone, on top of the extreme conditions in the chamber (which most people ive spoken to tend to forget goes from arctic cold to blazing hot, among other things) wouldve turned ss2 or at least showed a snippet of it, letting vegeta know that there is a whole new form to try to reach. I think in this series of events there wouldnt have been time for the trusty old vegeta moment "the thing is, i know youre playing me....."
So when they were all said and done after a little over half a week, 4 drastically stronger super saiyans, all with mastered ss forms, wouldve EACH been able to qt least stand their ground or even possibly defeat perfect cell themselves.
Goku would've lived, trunks couldve handled majin buu, and while its hard to say if ss3 wouldve been discovered earlier or at all... The group as a cohesive unit wouldve been better prepared for bojack, hiredigarn, janemba, etc. and since goku hadn't died, vegeta wouldve kept hos fighting edge, gohan never wouldve slacked off and become the weakest form of himself yet, and maybe even goku black wouldve had a run for his money.
Who knows how other rhings wouldve played out ..
Like would gohan still go to high school? If not, he never wpuldve met videl, pan would not exist, and who knows how goku wouldve gotten the needed energy for super saiyan god.
Idk. A neat train of thought though.
I love the Raging Blast 2 intro. Best dragonball game in my opinion
Experience and a legit training partner. Gohan is younger but he’s seen way more combat than trunks. Plus he had goku and piccolo basically his whole life
I'd like to believe Gohan having his potential unlocked by Elder Guru gave him a large step ahead of Future Trunks
he exchanged his ssj2 for his unmached drip
Both of gohan’s parents are martial artist. Parental traits also matter as well.
Take for example, Vegeta had raw talent and passed it onto trunks but Goku’s potential was also passed down to his sons.
really good video
Simple writing and gohan got his potential unlocked like 4 times
Only twice lol the rest were all rage mode.
the fact that the next legendary sayan ll be hybred is awesome
The lifestyle and training make the most sense. Having strong and knowledgable mentors from a young age clearly played a huge role in drawing out Gohan's potential. The same is actually true of main timeline Trunks, he was the second youngest saiyan to ever achieve Super Saiyan. But despite the fact that Gohan has slacked off on his training after his battle with Cell, Trunks slacked off at an even earlier age. Future Gohan and Future Trunks both never achieved the kind of rapid growth that present Gohan did because they either trained by themselves, or briefly with each other at a significant power mismatch. I really hope that present Trunks and Goten decide to start training again after seeing firsthand what Gohan and Goku (and also Vegeta and Broly) are capable of now. iirc they have't been present for any major battles since Ressurection F so they've missed out on a lot. The older saiyans are all multiversally powerful at this point and I think their future battles are all going to take them all around the universe, if not the other universes. So in their absence it would be cool to see Trunks and Goten step up to be at least the primary defenders of the Earth if not Universe 7.
Yea the hybrid potential is one of the biggest what ifs in db(not including Gohan obv) cause we have all these great hybrid saiyans now but yet they keep focusing on gohans latent potential. I feel like instead they should make a new character arc for Gohan where he maybe learns how to balance fighting and being a family man now that he is a main player in super. Like we get it gohan has crazy potential how many times do we have to be told that. We literally have goten and trunks who have more potential than even gohan and yet they are in their mid teens and can still only go ssj its actually absurd
What if its also like training in real life, Trunks is always on attack mode in the future there was no time to rest and reset. Just like working out IRL, you need rest days and cheat days. Since Gohan in present day was able to train correctly by spending time with his family, having down time and training hard when he needed to he was able to do what future trunks didn't have the luxury to to in his time line. idk just thinking out loud, I love these videos you're making man, keep it up!
There's one very simple and very important factor here: Gohan's mastered super Saiyan form was far more powerful than Trunk's full strength at the time when Gohan achieved ssj2. The only one similar was Goku, and Goku doesn't get huge rage boosts like Gohan.
And why did Gohan jump ahead of Trunks during training? Because Goku's training methodology was far superior to Vegeta's.
There was three different reasons that explain this difference already back in the Buu saga of DBZ, I'm surprised none of them got a mention here
First, when Toriyama got asked how present trunks hit SS by age 10 while future trunks didn't manage it until being older (and their the same person, so same potential), Toriyama said it's because of "S-cells" which is a cheesy reason but short version is the more calm/relaxed/peaceful a saiyan is the more potential they have to rapidly grow stronger. Present Trunks had a decade of peace while training with Vegeta for fun, Gohan had a relatively peaceful childhood between the story arcs, and future trunks grew up in the apocalypse from 1 year old. So future trunks has the least "S-cells" thus most difficulty unlocking a new transformation.
Second reason from the cell saga itself. Gohan had Goku guiding him to SS, and specifically training him to master that form. He didn't hit SS2 randomly or through natural growth, his training for cell SPECIFICALLY set him up for it (goku didn't know exactly how it would play out but he wanted Gohan ready to unleash his potential, and has good instincts about that stuff). Future Gohan never "mastered" SS the same way, and was just fighting to survive. And he tried teaching future trunks to turn SS but didn't understand it the way Goku did - goku successfully taught Gohan SS, future Gohan never quite got Trunks there until his death.
So just from those two, gohan started out with less difficulty and had a better teacher for SS specifically.
Third is that DB has always been trying to establish a theme of raw power being less important than skill and character. Anytime someone is confident they can't lose because they're that much stronger, they lose, or the opponent reveals some new technique or transformation that changes the balance. It's not overly successful with that message because it's shonen and huge power gaps are more dramatic and easier to write, but the series also constantly mocks the concept of power scaling in every arc. Future Trunks didn't think he could get stronger than SS until spending time with Goku and Vegeta. Gohan never questioned that he COULD be stronger. So Gohan being the one to hit SS2 and not Trunks mirrors Goku and Vegeta (vegeta wants to be better than anyone else, goku just wants to see how strong he can get)
Trunks never had a moment during his training where he NEEDED to transform due to the lack of an actually training partner. I honestly believe that had Vegeta went at it with everything he had in training with Trunks they BOTH could have unlocked SS2. Instead we get Trunks inadvertently wasting his time in the Chamber on a flawed form. Vegeta could have immediately pointed the flaw in it and corrected him. This knowledge however wouldn't have helped him much since he didn't push himself the way he could have had he trained with his son. He thought he could do it alone since that's how he achieved base Super Sayain, I mean he does achieve it alone, but not until 7 years later after rigorous solo training.
Goku himself explains that's where one's true power comes from. Gohan didn't transform into SS2 until Android 16 explained that if he does not succeed, Cell will destroy everyone and everything he loves. That followed by his immediate death helped push Gohan into the transformastion. It wasn't as simple as Gohan getting mad.
Not everyone has the same potential 🤷♂️ Gohan is just naturally more powerful than Trunks
Obviously gohan had a lot of help to achieve this power. He had his potantial unlocked. Twice. He trained in the time chamber as kid ect. So he definitely had a nice headstart.
I think it was just trunks focused on another branch of super saiyan. He didn't master ssj like goku and Gohan. He just focused on gaining power through super vegeta/ultra trunks transformations. And my theory is that ultra trunks was just unfinished. He temporarily turned ultra b4 he turned into his rage form, almost like ultra was the final step b4 rage.
Thanks!
The way I see it, Future Trunks was intentionally stunted in his full potential by Akira Toriyama because Future Trunks wasn't the main protagonist, or directly related to the main protagonist.
And I say this being a big fan of Future Trunks. He is my favorite DBZ character.
That being said, I think that Toriyama only wanted Future Trunks to get strong enough to defeat Androids 17 and 18, and Imperfect Cell, in the dystopian future he came from.
Personally, I wanted Future Trunks to evolve into the modern day Legendary Super Saiyan.
Especially since his Super Saiyan Grade 3 form inspired Broly's look in the first DBZ BROLY movie.
But we got what we got.
I agree with what you're saying! Same he's definitely one of my favourites (the Z Version). My fave overall is Vegeta. Then I love Trunks, Tien and Piccolo in Z!
Thank you so much for the Super Thanks Boss! The Spirit Bomb power helps out each time! 💙💪🏻
@@SaiyanScholar You're welcome, buddy! Keep making great content, man. 👍🏿💯
Trunks has the malnutrition problem
We gotta remember gohan was born from two fighters while trunks wasn't.
My takeaway was always that everyone in the future timeline was weaker. Time travel meant all of the main timeline characters were stronger and more advanced (able to be advanced). Gohan is obviously much weaker in the future timeline but so are the androids (there are arguments about this). Even if it isnt just everyone is stronger at least with trunks: compared to main timeline vegeta, future vegeta is not as strong (less training, maybe not even super saiyan) when trunks was conceived. Main timeline trunks and goten are overpowered compared to kid gohan, future gohan and trunks. Goten could probably even beat younger future trunks at least after his training in the buu arc and main trunks was a lot stronger from training with vegeta, yet neither of them could go ssj2.
I think the reason why trunks couldn’t go ssj2 is because no one in that timeline knew there was something “even further beyond” but in present timeline goku knew that something lie in wait for Gohan, something “further beyond” and pushing towards that goal is how it was obtainable.
People forget vegeta had no trainers compared to goku. First time we really seen vegeta he was already outfighting conquering planets. And hasn’t been trained rather learned from experience. Hence why goku is more of a martial artists. But as we scene at yardrat with training vegeta really is a prodigy he easily surpassed what goku learned within the time spent. Gohan has had goku and piccolo and been around battles since a baby. Trunks not so much and even for future trunks it’s even worse
His potential was not unlocked by Guru before becoming a super Saiyan 🤣🤣🤣
Time too brust everyones bubble...future trunks achieved ssj2 after stopping the Resurrection of majin buu...xd
I think the basic answer is that Trunks never mastered Super Saiyan Grade 4, thus never mastered Super Saiyan 2 early. Gohan was training in the Time Chamber with Goku who always relied more on strategy than just sheer power unlike Vegeta, so Gohan always had the advantage in terms of mentors. This is made even clearer with the fact that Kid Trunks basically spent all his time training with Vegeta, and figured out Super Saiyan on his own, probably based on emulating his dad. But for kid Trunks it was still basically just a raw power boost rather than something devised through strategy like with Gohan.I don't think that potential has anything to do with Super Saiyan 2. I think that every Saiyan has the potential for Super Saiyan 2, but that it needs the right kinds of training to unlock, like mastering Super Saiyan Grade 4 for Super Saiyan 2, and getting deep in touch with your inner Saiyan ancestor roots to unlock Super Saiyan 3, or doing an ancient ritual or training with the gods to unlock Super Saiyan God and beyond.
One thing that you don’t seem to understand is that to truly unlock super saiyan 2, mastering super saiyan 1 is a prerequisite. Trunks never mastered super saiyan until super. He was relying on Grade 2, like Vegeta. Also, the Gohan who trained Trunks didn’t receive the Android prep-training from Goku. Future Gohan only had the training from Piccolo when he was a kid and maybe some training from Goku between study sessions. But main timeline Gohan got dedicated, constant training to get him ready for the androids arrival
It makes sense that the COT is accelerating the process with time dilation stuff and how doing it in the human world would not provide equal development.
Also there’s the fact that Super Saiyan 2 wasn’t even a thing when it first happened; it was just the true appearance of Gohan’s Super Saiyan form, with no more inhibitions on. Meaning it was unique to him.
DBZ had Bruce Faulconer's music. Future Trunks didn't, so that's why he never achieved SSJ2.
As we saw with Caulifa, someone can achieve SS1 and then SS2 very quickly. I think it does have to do with understanding your Ki and technique. Cabba showed her how to reach SS1, and she learned it immediately
Gohan had his potential unlocked on Namek. Trunks did not.
But Trunks was still stronger than Gohan in the Trunks and Android Saga. Yet he got leapfrogged massively.
something I'd like to mention is how Goten was a Super Saiyan at 7 years old, potentially earlier since we never see the first time he transforms
this is most likely due to the fact that Goku was in the Super Saiyan state when he was conceived 😭
I almost guarantee future trunks was training continuously throughout his childhood. He just didn't have the same latent potential as gohan. Definitely the mentorship helps, but I doubt it is lack of experience in his timeline