Who Are The Bloodstone Emperor & Amethyst Empress, & What Do They Have To Do With ASOIAF & HotD?
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- Опубликовано: 7 июн 2024
- The Great Empire of the Dawn is the origin story of Azor Ahai, but the tale of this ancient civilization is a fascinating one. The Bloodstone Emperor's blood betrayal of his sister, the Amethyst Empress, is a classic story that could hold much deeper meaning in the story at large. What does this narrative of familial betrayal have to do with ASOIAF, HotD, and the entire world of ice and fire?
00:00 The Great Empire Of The Dawn
01:14 The Tale Of The Blood Betrayal
03:46 What Was The Great Empire Of The Dawn The Origin Of?
10:09 What Does It All Mean?
12:48 Outro 
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The most intriguing aspect of the Bloostone Emperor and the Amethyst Empress in my opinion is that it is a reversal of Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa story. One is a blood betrayal that caused the Long Night, the other is a blood sucrifice that ended the Long Night.
Entire story is about genetic engineering. The Valyrian dragonlords were 'lab created' as weapons alongside the dragons.
Off-topic but I always found it cool how George plays on historical periods in the real world with the groups that inhabit Westeros. The children and giants are the Stone Age, the First Men are the Bronze Age, the Andals are the Iron Age, and the Targaryens symbolize a sort of middle ages (i.e. William the Conqueror).
Perhaps the Age of King Bran the All Seeing Tree Wizard will be a sort of Renaissance?!
After all our Renaissance came from looking back at Ancient Greek and Roman history, art, politics, philosophy and culture that lifted Europe from the 'stagnation' of the Middle Ages.
Who better that a greenseer like Bran, to look into the past and implement ancient ideas, technology and magic that would break the stagnation the Seven Kingdoms has been in for the last 9 thousand years.
It is a concept currently mostly used in archaeology (and some name conventions) and was used and developed to deal with pre-history at the beginning of 19c. We later discovered that some historical 'Bronze Age' civilizations had writing and urbanization, but the names stuck.
And the Rhoynar represents the migration of North Africans (aka Moors) escaping subjugation and seeking refuge in Spain.
@@adapienkowska2605 but the name "Bronze Age" doesn't suggest no witing or urbanization, it's only about what alloy was used to forge weapons, ornaments etc.
@@McJusti when the term was coined, it meant pre-civilisation. And iron was used in many cases during the so-called 'Bronze Age'
I always thought that the legend of all those emperors that ruled for hundreds of years each is really about different dynasties that ruled over the empire of the dawn; and now after watching this video I think that the valyrians, just like the Targaryens after them, where just the ones that survived the cataclysm that their empire was responsible for.
There fore making another parallel between past and present that George loves so much.
I absolutely love the creepy magic of a song of ice and fire, it feels unnatural, misterious and dangerous, and yet it still has similarities to other's works magic sistems so you have some idea of what we're reading about.
Euron Greyjoy would be most similar to the Bloodstone Emperor in the current story I would think, messing around with dark magic. The Ironborn also have a black stone artifact. Definitely interesting to think about with the Hightowers and Targaryens in HoTD
A book or tv series based on the Amethyst Empress and Bloodstone Emperor is something I'd be HIGHLY keen to read/watch 👀
Heck yes.
@@HillsAliveYT what if the twist is the empress is the villain like a Dany character and the bloodstone was like Jon the show versions
Bloodstone and Amethyst are ABSOLUTELY Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa; if I had to bet, going off some of what Company of the Cat has discussed in her videos, Bloodstone probably tried to draw on the magic of a comet similar to the red one to create dragons, using Nissa Nissa as the sacrifice. Unfortunately, the Children of the Forest's calling on the Hammer of the Waters affected the moon's orbit, and The Comet struck the moon in what was effectively a lunar eclipse, thus giving us the Qarthene legend of how dragons came to be and giving us the Long Night. The first of the Andals probably arrived in Westeros shortly thereafter, and started shit with the Children, resulting in the Others; realizing how badly they'd fucked up, the Children helped the Last Hero unite the First Men and the first of the Andals in Westeros, to defeat the Others.
TL;DR Killing your wife is bad, m'kay?
I did not make that connection but I definitely see the thematic similarities and completely agree, the whole heroic framing of Azor Ahai has always driven me bonkers and the overt villainy of the blood betrayal is much more my vibe.
@@HillsAliveYT The bit that creeps me out is that we're told that Lightbringer was thrust through Nissa Nissa's chest; meanwhile Rhaenyra's daughter Visenya was born with a hole where her heart should be. I don't know if that's just part and parcel of the deformities, or if this is a recurring thing, but if it's true that witches like Alys could sacrifice their children to maintain their magic, then it would be chilling if the dragon babies are all malformed call-backs to the original death that brought forth the dragons, hole-in-heart and all.
mkay.
@@eric2500 It's easy, m'kay
@@theduxabides9274 Forgot the apostrophe, thanks! I think I actually meant to type "okay".
Company of the Cat has a theory that is parallel to yours and a really good video explaining it. It does not bring in the Nissa Nissa sacrifice for victory in the war to contain the Others, though, just the gain (?) of breeding in a familial, transmissible trait of being able to control dragons and build empire, which is a signifigantly LESS noble goal!
i have been fascinated with the city of Asshai and it's destruction into a toxic waste due to some ancient events. So similar to the foreboding invasion of Others. And then i watched videos on Stygai and Dvid lightbringer's videos on all of this (including recent stream). It looks tinfoil but it's pretty plausible and foreshadowing done right.
Yeah, it's very interesting how often there seem to be recurring themes of this kind of "magical blight," both in legend and in reality there seem to be a lot of references to this kind of magical nuclear meltdown where magic becomes so overwhelming and unstable that it causes a literal natural disaster. Obviously Valyria is the one that immediately comes to mind, but Asshai is another place that exists in the world right now that shows the potentially catastrophic effects of a ton of magic that has gone out of control and destroyed everything in its wake.
Do I even read asoiaf? No.
Will I watch, comment, and like this hill's alive video? Yes.
I'm actually surprised you didn't address this, but I find it really interesting how _similar_ the Bloodstone Emperor and Azor Ahai are. They're both great human leaders during the Long Night who killed a woman close to them in a bid for power (does the term "sister-wife" ring any bells here?) and who are connected to the beginning and the end of the Long Night respectively. And those probably aren't even the only parallels.
While I find this idea intriguing, I believe the timeline is too great for the First Men to come from YiTi. The distance is too great and there is plenty of land that wasn't under the Bloodstone Emperor and whatever horrors he was unleashing on the world to go straight to Westeros. Why not settle in what would become the Dothraki Sea or the Free Cities before going all the way to the edge of the world?
Personally, my theory on the Bloodstone Emperor and Amethyst Empress is that this was the very first human sacrifice for the purposes of blood magic in history, with the Bloodstone Emperor's reign bein a massive expansion of the practice. Blood magic is a form of violence, and GRRM is serious about his passivism in is writing. I believe that blood magic is an allegory for the justification of war and violence. It promises peace and prosperity for a powerful few at the ultimate cost for others, usually the most vulnerable. From Melisandre, to the Faceless Men, to the Children of the Forest and Jojen paste, that's what is really being offered.
I see your point. What if the refugees were so scared they fled until they ran out of land? It would probably take generations so it might have been a promise to one who led them out of the empire and died, or a prophecy or just a bone-deep fear. Well, that's my thought anyway.
The idea of the first men coming from yi ti makes perfect sense when you consider that George RR Martin creates heavy parallels of history. Perhaps the first men coming from yi ti, is like the widely supported aryan migration theory where indo europeans originate from central Asia. The distance from say Britain to Central Asia is fairly comparable to the distance from yi ti to westeros.
You could totally be right, but the ancient families having Valyrian looks and most especially their being very "Valyrian/Great Empire"-style architecture in Westeros is what gives me pause and just feels too intentional to write off as a coincidence.
@@mappingshaman5280 Most likely, they didn't travel from Yi Ti to westeros in one single jouney. Instead a gradual migration is more likely. Like how modern humans gradually migrated from Africa to the Americas.
@@mappingshaman5280 Yeah, but the Aryans didn't skip over large parts of Asia and Europe to get to England, which would be the equivalent. The First Men arrive far too soon after the Great Empire of the Dawn and BEFORE Valyrians. Even the Ghiscari were in their infancy as a civilization. No, the timeline doesn't stack. If the Westerosi houses have Valyrian ancestors, they came later, after the founding of The Valyria Freehold and interbred with the First Men, and maybe even the Andals, at that point, long after the First Men established themselves in Westeros.
Oh hell yes this is my favorite topic by far in ASOIAF. Love the mythology in this series, and this one in particular is absolutely central. Stoked to finish watching this.
I love it too! It's like there's just enough information for my mind to go wild and not enough information for me to rein it in.
@@HillsAliveYT Exactly! It makes me feel as though I both completely understand the story as well as not really understand it at all. It does seem as though there is clearly something centrally important to this particular story within ASOIAF, it’s just a matter in what form that importance takes.
An interesting thing about the Bloodstone Emperor is that he worshipped a black stone that fell from the sky and was said to be the first high priest of the church of starry wisdom.
Unless the bloodstone drank blood, calling a black stone a "blood" stone only makes sense if it was associated with black blood. Lots of things in Westeros have black blood: dragons, Beric Dondarion, Melisandre, corpses, and Lady Stoneheart.
One of my ASOIAF theories is that blood is a useful conduit of souls when practicing blood magic. If its correct, it may be that the bloodstone was a rock that contained the blood/soul of something that fell from the sky.
Whose blood? It's complete speculation but the Great Empire of the Dawn was started when two opposing entities (the Lady Made of Light and the Lion of Night) got married (i.e., reached an accord). Maybe the blood betrayal was Night's attempt to unbalance an eons-old stalemate. The legend does say that during the blood betrayal the Maiden Made of Light turned from the world and the Lion of Night came forth to "punish the wickedness of men". Balance was only restored with Light's bringer.
Light and Night, Fire and Ice. Maybe the central premise of ASOIAF is not a war between opposing forces but instead a struggle to restore balance.
The Lion of Night bares similarities to Maahes and Sekhmet, Lion gods of Egypt. Maahes was also a god of war & balance and has the distinct origin of being brought over by the Nubians who conquered Egypt.
Not going to lie people like David lightbringer over really got me woke on the importance of the great Empire of the Dawn and I really wonder if we're ever going to actually get any confirmation about it.
YES, David Lightbringer is awesome
@@hez859 I definitely don't agree with everything he says (I think Danny is gonna be villainous), but I think there is merit to his approach of mythical analysis, and they're in a lot of stuff he says that I think is just the most logical explanation
Yeah, I agree with you @ninjasolphin01 - don’t always agree with his opinion but he was the first one who introduced me to this theory using the Great Empire of the Dawn having more significance in the current story
Ahh yes this is one of my favourite things to speculate about in ASOIAF!!!
Definitely agree there’s a connection and the Daynes and Hightowers have something to with it (I think the Sword of the Morning and the rock which the light tower is built on are big clues). But idk how much of my own thoughts had to do with refugees from a potential civil war between the Amethyst Empress and Bloodstone Emperor and instead maybe explorers looking for new land to settle.
I think even the Starks originating from TGEOTD - although it wasn’t until someone pointed out Pearl I think as their “stone” that I managed to go, maybe? - might explain some of the pre-Andal and pre-Targ stories legends about the family and the North.
Another interesting aspect connection between them all are the colors when it comes to the Amethyst Empress and Bloodstone Emperor. Amethyst is of course a shade of purple, like the eyes of most Valyrians and sometimes the Dayne’s. And bloodstone is usually a mix of red, green, a little black (and sometimes brownish?) The main colors of House Targaryen are red and black, House Hightower is known for their green, and houses like the Starks typically have brown hair.
I definitely agree that the information about the Great Empire of the Dawn is meant to be a further clue to the history that created ASOIAF's world as we know it. The series itself calls back so many times to the ancient history of Westeros and of the world at large (the Age of Heroes being the supposed origin of many of the great houses, the Long Night, Azor Ahai, the Night's King and Corpse Queen, the Pact, etc.). And of course we have the perennial mysteries of why the seasons are so strange, what the Others are and what they want, what's up with the weirwoods, why is magic returning to the world... GRRM clearly has a very large-scale story he is telling not merely across a variety of characters and locations in the present day but also deep into this world's history. Really enjoyed your analysis, especially the idea that the Starks/Hightowers and Targaryens might reflect opposite sides of an ancient conflict.
I always like your videos about ASOIAF. Excited for this one.
If Jon Snow does end up killing Daenerys in the books, might this not be a mirroring of the Bloodstone Emperor killing the Amythest Empress?!
Yeah actually that's a pretty on point observation.
Really like how incest is just listed up there with the great temptations and foibles of the human heart
LMFAO for real, when I was rereading this portion of TWOIAF that was a record-scratch moment that made me think "yes this has Valyrian vibes" but also "what the fuck."
@@HillsAliveYT I wonder about George sometimes. I kid I kid. Incest does seem remarkably central to the story and I feel like it has some deeper meaning than "haha nobles are inbred".
@@ninjadolphin01 Is clear the books shows the many problems endogamy brings, and not just because of health issues. Outside of the Targaryens those who dwell in incest are portray as evil people, and the Targaryens end not so above either, causing the destruction of their own dynasty. Is just people tend to handwaved because Targaryens such as Daenerys are often seeing as protagonists to follow and that Prince who was Promised prophecy makes them look they are the "good ones", even if we don't even know if is the same one as the Azor Ahai legend.
Is it a stretch to think the name Valyria might be the name of the Amethyst Empress?
It's never said what exactly a tiger-woman is, but one of the more plausible explanations is that she was a warg. We already know that Essos had its own children of the forest, the Ifequevron, so why not its own wargs as well?
the thing is that, for GRRM, A World of Ice and Fire was written by maesters. it wasn't written as fact, but like the exaggerated work we see throughout antiquity & medieval times. as he mentioned about Asshai in an answer, it's like reading a book by European monks about Vietnam.
let's not forget that Marco Polo did travel to the East, but the account we got was a book highly modified by his cell mate to look more impressive for the public.
TL;DR: the further from Westeros comes the story that is being told in AWOIAF, the least believable it is intended to be by George's design.
^^ nice
Hang on, the legend of Azor Ahai is that Nissa Nissa was WILLING, that's why the sword had power unique to it - unwilling deaths do not yeild the same juice and SHOULD not.
LOL well I have thoughts on Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa, but I agree that willing self-sacrifice is dramatically different from murdering someone for mojo.
@@HillsAliveYT I think love, obedience, and loyalty is more important to crafting valyrian steel sword than willing self-sacrifice. Niisa Nissa's stabbing may or may not have been willing self-sacrifice but it DEFINITELY happened just after a love confession.
Azor Ahai didn't say "I'm going to stab you now", he said "take off your clothes and I love you more than all that is in this world".
House Stark was never oposite to house targayen in fact they have the pact of ice and fire.
Which the Taragryens broke and what you call what happened in Robert's Rebellion (lord Stark and Brandon death , kidnapping Laynna and demanding Ned's head ) if not conflict and opposition
Loving these more obscure lore videos!
Ahhh this was dope! I wonder if the founders of House Gardener have connections to this in some kind of way, read somewhere about House Stark being direct descendents of "Brandon of the bloody blade" who was supposedly a son of Garth Greenhand, them being somehow related to "the pearl emperor" as well would make it one long connection going back to before the dawn age, but i wonder if that is too much tinfoil 😂
It does feel like the Emperors could be actual dragons themselves, thus having long lifespans that grow shorter overtime (as magic grows weaker perhaps), like how Targaryan dragons eventually became weaker and smaller. It's a parallel at least. But it could just be extremely embellished history of Yi Ti too lol.
The fact that the Amethyst Empress and the Bloodstone Emperor are only mentioned in TWoIaF kinda suggests to me that we shouldn't place too much importance on them? Nor do I think that GRRM will reveal what really happened in ancient history, and connect it to these bloodlines in the modern story? The vibe of the story obviously feels very Rhaenyra-and-Aegon-y, obviously, but I think its ultimately more of a vibe thing and a page-filler than anything else.
Danny's vision definitely feels like a reference, I'm also personally in the camp that thinks a lot of the historical events intentionally echo or foreshadow a lot of the events in ASoIaf
You could be right, but I just do really love the vibes.
@@ninjadolphin01 hmm... i think it definitely wasn't meant as a reference when grrm wrote it, since he doesn't seem to reference the Great Empire of the Dawn again - Dany is just naming gems that are at least sometimes purple to describe the eyes of her forebears. Perhaps it was retconned to be a reference... but if so, very obliquely, since Dany names only 4 of the 8, and in the wrong order.
Yeah, this stuff definitely echoes and parallels the current story - Dunk and Brienne; the Sparrows and the Sparrows from Aenys/Maegor/Jaehaerys and the Shepherd; the deaths of Margaery and Helaena; the Dance of the Dragons... but the further back in time, the more the references are homages to writers GRRM likes and real-world mythology? If they will play out in the story, it will be as deconstructing these tropes and stories. The idea that your dynasty gradually and linearly goes from divine to corrupt and backstabbing is clearly BS. People are often remembered as puer evil usurpers like the bloodstone emperor, but its rarely that simple. Its BS that a single hero will solve a massive existential problems.
@@Mj_Jetson oh yeah I think the whole thing it's heavily mythologized if nothing else the rulers living for centuries thing is silly. Personally I'm somewhat inclined to believe that bloodstone and amethyst are actually Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa and it's a setup for this big mythical subversion. I think there are also these mythical archetypes that a lot of the characters were to fall into and a repeated throughout the series. This includes real world mythology like with Bloodraven and Aemond having some Odin vibes to in universe stuff with Wyman Manderly being like the rat king or Euron Greyjoy the being like the bloodstone emperor.
I don't think that we'll ever see a Gemstone Emperor or get much more information about them in the series but I do think George included them for a reason and we can use the story of the Gemstone Emperors and other stories and legends that appear throughout the series to surmise the themes that George wants us to focus on, and predict what may happen next to characters who parallel these legendary\historical figures.
Have you seen Alt Shift X’s video on Euron? He pits Euron (with his ‘blood’ eye) and the Daynes/Targaryens as descendants Amethyst Empress (including Jon and Dany through Dyanna Dayne) and that the big conflict will come with Euron trying to bring on apocalypse in his quest to godhood - similar to the Bloodstone Emperor. I like your connections between the First Men, refugees from the Bloodstone Emperor’s reign, and the Valyrians, descending from factions of the Amethyst Empress/Bloodstone Emperor.
I think that in the "present story" a lot of the characters are more balanced in both energy and ancestry, making it more likely that the next Long Night will be shortened and the worst prevented, and it is ultimately the "nobody important" characters who save the day, not the people with NAMES who are working out their destinies...
Not Valyria, but close enough!! Cant wait to watch your amazing take Hills!!
(after I am done with work...) XD
Very interesting video
Another video from the goat
It’s the “going buck wild with magic” for me ❤
No no no, Moon is no egg, silly smooth voiced RUclipsr! Moon is god, wife of sun.
It is KNOWN!
Beware of Gods on Earth.
Sure, he's the moon-or his litter was, and his wives were stars.
I can't remember the channel that brought it up but here is another interesting idea about the Great Empire of the Dawn - the stories of Yi Ti actually understate how truly enormous it was and in fact its political centre wasn't in Yi Ti but in Asshai. Think about it - we have this impossibly massive city in a region that has been totally devestated by out of control magic. On the face of it, this makes relatively little sense unless at some point in the ancient past, Asshai was the heart of an empire that dwarfed Valyria, Ghis and the Seven Kingdoms in grandeur. (It would also make sense from a narative logistics perspective if Martin actually wants to bring the Great Empire into the story because it would allow Dany to sidestep Yi Ti on her way to Westeros.)
This video is a great source of fanfiction ideas.
One idea came to my mind is magic is a supernatural, but it's still a natural force, and if there's imbalance, this will show in different ways. This reminds me of Force from Star Wars, but in both more and less shown ways.
What if those Others are connected to this conflict, and have arised or were changed like Neverborn/Daemons from Warhammer?
See this makes me want Dany to not turn evil just for the poetry of Jon and Dany's ancestors doing dangerous blood magic that brings about the long night and Jon and Dany having to end it.
Looking at all the replies illustrates how much of a genius George is. There is so much yet so little info that people can wonder about for years to come.
Algormancy!
I always thought that each emperor represented a different dynasty, and perhaps with each dynasty, came to power magical practices that were especial or distinctive to each bloodline. Like a family secret. Which is why perhaps their eyes were of different colors. We know Valyrians delved with blood magic and genetics so, why not the Great Empire too? The Amethyst Dynasty fell in a coup by the Bloodstone Dynasty, and they escaped (with all their secret distinctive magic) to the Freehold. When the Empire fell after the long night, the Valyrians took control after the power vacuum.
The Long Night is associated with cold and ice and the Others - but Valerian dragon magic is related to flames and heat. Both dark magic but there is lots of blood magic in this world - except maybe the Summer Islanders who just do sex magic.
I know where I want to live on Planetos! 😏😊😄
ASOIAF lore and Fire and Blood book: Hightower and Targaryen conflict not only connects to a potential pre-Valyrian blood magic rivalry that led their ancestors to where they are today, but also the Hightower and Targaryen conflict also represents the larger conqueror/settler culture of Valyria going against Westerosi culture and traditions dating back to the First Men, and both of these conflicts culminate in the Targaryen civil war (and eventually the events of Game of Thrones era)
House of the Dragon show: Greens are evil misogynists for trying to take the throne from Rhaenyra, who is a feminist heroine just living her life and who has done nothing wrong ever
(Just a critique of the show's representation of the conflict so far and the internet fandom surrounding Team Black. They could be saying a lot of really cool, gray, complex things with this story but personally so far I think they've fallen short. Stuff like removing the women characters' agencies in the story/events and the addition of certain "girlboss" moments unnecessarily (looking at you Rhaenys) just further cement for me that the show isn't necessarily living up to its potential. Yet.)
LOL yes agreed. I actually think the show has been surprisingly fair to the Greens overall, at least in comparison to what I was expecting them to be portrayed as, but I think there are a lot of cultural and political elements of the conflict that makes the story more interesting and the rivalry a lot less one-sided than most readers/viewers see it as which the show hasn't really delved into at all yet. I can give them a break given that they have to cram A LOT into a few episodes, but it would be nice if they tackled more of this content, both because it's interesting and because it will help them avoid another Dany-style meltdown where everyone watching GoT was flabbergasted that her character could actually be perceived badly by other characters within the narrative and thought her "dark turn" was totally out of left field.
@@HillsAliveYT I’ll be honest, I laughed when people thought Dany’s dark turn “came out of nowhere” even though she had been constantly showing signs of darkness ever since she was okay with Khal Drogo wanting to rape and murder people as long as it got her closer to the Iron Throne. Same as the books.
The andals are the conqueror culture. They even forced the natives to adopt NOT!Christianity. The Targaryens mostly let the locals keep their culture aside from the right of first night, which itself is often a tool of conquest and genocide.
Hmm the story of the Amethyst Empress and the Bloodstone Emperor does sound a lot like one of the big (and almost always laughably incorrect) tropes of Chinese historiography, where the first emperor of the dynasty is super awesome and virtuous and whatever, then gradually corruption and weakness take hold in subsequent generations until the emperor is a total loser who takes advice from evil women and is overthrown by some virtuous military genius macho dude who founds the next dynasty. I guess GRRM wanted to emulate and do homage to these historical and mythological tropes? Similar to all the Lovecraft and Tolkien references?
I like david lightbringers theory that the hammer of the water was a meteorite impact.
❤❤❤❤
The blood emperor, younger brother, usurped the throne from his sister - pretty obvious parallel to house of dragon
we need to have a tv series about the family of dawn
im almost positive the night king is the bloodstone emperor who is a targaryan as you stated and have thought this for many years. and i believe the starks are the descendants of azor ahai who is also a descendant of an emperor from the great empire of the dawn. it isnt said how azor ahai won against the night king but i believe a blood pact was made that if stark and targaryans had off-spring they were to be given to the bloodstone emperor so he could continue his white walker blood line. example is crastor is believed to be a stark/targaryan bastard who was giving his incest born sons to the "old gods". i do not think the reference "the prince that was promised" is a positive symbol. i think the prince who was promised is the one who takes over after the bloodstone emperor
Why did i think from the title that the Bloodstone Emperor & Amethyst Empress was going to be a love story?
NOPE
LOL when it comes to the world of ice and fire it's a pretty safe bet that most things are NOT going to be love stories.
@@HillsAliveYT lol I should have known better
@@HillsAliveYTteak like rhaegar a d lyanna
The Great empire of the Dawn is Old Ghis. The maesters seem to think that Old Ghis was the first true empire and GRRM recently said in an interview that the long night was closer to 5000 years ago than 10000.
I think it’s amazing he basically switched the northerners and southerners of the earth and made the birthplace of civilization if it occurred in high north spread instead of in real life which is more south or middle of the earth and so on.
Hmm... Not sure I agree that the Starks are descendents from the Amethyst faction, or that Valyrians are from the Bloodstone faction, since I think it's implied that Valyrians get their purple eyes from the Amethyst Empress? Though, maybe the Bloodstone Emperor also had purple eyes, and just chose Bloodstone to differentiate himself from his sister...
More please mpre
The Fermi paradox is the theory that other intelligent life has existed in our universe, but it's time was too brief to advance to a stage that would leave evidence for us to find. This was thought up during the cold war where mankind was closest to extinguishing itself. The reason for this is ultimately mankind has improved it's ability to harm one another, but it's reasons haven't changed. Personal grievances, envy of someone elses resources or land, disagreements on philosophy/theology.
The bloodstone emperor and his dark magic was his nukes that mankind as a species barely survived the outcome of using. Valyrians dragons and blood magic destroyed them and their land to the point no life can survive in valyria. The second long night is another possible point of extinction, probably set off by someone messing with magic without growing to use it properly.
That is the thing about the Fermi paradox. If mankind or any aliens could develop their society along with technology, they would survive to touch and live along the stars. Humanity passed it's first real test with the cold war, but there were too many close calls to say we are a responsible and advanced species to categorically say a future leader of ours won't destroy humanity for some stupid petty reason.
This element is thick with symbols, and I think they get ignored for a more generic and mundane interpretation. Is it similar to other narratives? Yes, and it is definitely intended. They bones of certain patterns are reused over and over to create unique versions of it. They aren't exactly the same and often one wins were they lost in a different version. If a very similar one resolves with the equivalent of the Amethyst winning they right it off as proof it's not connected. There's an assumption that if you loose in one to be relevant that figure must always loose. In reality it's more like looking at a myth where the moon god wins and then the sun god wins, repeat. It's a cycle of replacement not a blueprint for "good" wins or "evil" wins.
The easiest way into it is to look at the Dance. It's intended to be a way to understand the real complexity of the more vague myth.
I would also note that it this myth is created or maintained by those critical of the moment in history. When you read "punished the wickedness of men" you should hear it in the context of something like the Andals critique of the fall of their enemies because their culture and beliefs were very different. It's not a myth created by those actually involved. Which should give you the context of where it actually comes from in world.
Lastly, you should question the actual timeline and perspective on the story given the symbols involved and how they're used in other places. Dragons are connected to clear Amethyst symbols in the the Targs and Valyrians. Dragons drinking from the sun is a fairly clear image of devouring light which is something that would cause a long night rather than end it.
There are some excellent questions to be raised, but most won't look at them. Fandom accepts the dynamic and narrative as Westeros accepts the narrative of the maesters.
Random thought - the long arc of this history proves that rulers of empires in this world should not murder their sisters, but should marry them/sleep with them..🙄🙄😏😏
at least until they start developing Hapsburg chins or equivalent and then STOP before the mutant stillbirths start coming...
every time i try to understand ASOIAF history/lore, a part of my brain shuts off😭
the black stone is most likely petrifird black wierwood (ebony) wierwood turns to stone about 2,000 years after it's 'death'. a wooded wierwood fort would become a stone fort after 2,000 years...
I partly think that it's possible that the connections are both true (intended by GRRM) yet irrelevant. It seems like giving these families epic mythic histories seems like the kind of idea Martin would deconstruct, and that the reality would be something messy, confusing, political, and decidedly unromantic.
Except then what are Jon, Ageon, Aemond, Healena and Dearon then they are half Targaryen/Hightower and half Targaryen/Stark children
It seems clear to me that the Long Night was caused by the advent of the Others, who, in the show at least, were created by the Children of the Forest to fight the First Men who had invaded Westeros. And it seems clear that, if--which I do not believe--Martin ever finishes the books, they will reveal the same thing. At the very least, the Others pretty much have to have their origins in Westeros, because they are only found there. I suspect that whole story of Azor Ahai and the Prince Who Was Promised are probably BS. Think about it: the first war with the Others only happened in Westeros, but the Long Night affected the whole world. The Long Night ended when the First Men allied with the Children of the Forest to defeat the Others, but no one living outside of Westeros, and probably not everyone living in Westeros, knew that. So what did they do? What mankind has always done when faced with events we do not understand: make up a story to explain it. And of course they would probably tie that story into some of their own myths and legends, would might have had some basis in their real history, but, above all, they would invent the story of a savior-hero who made a terrible sacrifice to save the world from the Long Night. I think it would be a fitting resolution if the prophecy of Azor Ahai Reborn/The Prince Who Was Promised was just a myth that had nothing to do with how the Others were beaten the first time or how they could be beaten again.
piping hot take: Azor Ahai is a villain. in the book it says "death itself will bend its knee and those who die fighting in Azor Ahai's cause shall be reborn". reborn or reanimated? death is not something to be conquered but embraced. its a natural part of life so people NOT dying is unnatural, which is why Azor Ahai sounds extremely villainous to me. i doubt GRRM would write a book where the villain is death itself and then the hero "conquers" death and no one ever dies ever again because the lesson of the story is that death = bad. no. absolutely not. thats so simplistic and naive but also something that could easily believed by the characters in the story only to have it be twisted into a horror style nightmare in a "be careful what you wish for" style plot twist by a sicko like George RR Martin. We're being tricked. Also one of Azor Ahai's names is Neferion, which is like being named "Baddie McBadbad". Its the Remus Lupin of Planetos.
gotta love it! : D
targaryens - nasty effed up descendents of necromancers who caused the long night and then built a slave empire
hightowers and starks - descendents of the people who stopped them
(sorry ignore me i'm just here to hate on targs)
Or bloodstone which is a green stone spores with red the House color of Aegon’s mother and father while Rhaenyra is the Amethyst Empress and her mother and father’s colors red and blue mix to make purple the color of Amethyst