Great Empire of the Dawn: Dragonlords of Ancient Asshai
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- Опубликовано: 1 апр 2020
- Evidence abounds for the existence of a pre-Valyrian, pre-Long Night civilization of dragonlords, now mostly vanished from the pages of history. The evidence leads us to Asshai, and a legend of a Dawn Age high civilization called the Great Empire of the Dawn...
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In Asshai, they have only ghost grass and frozen yogurt, which they call Frogurt. But the Frogurt is also cursed.
Ooh that’s bad!
Axel KOJUNDZIC-MISEVIC It comes with free sprinkles
The toppings contain potassium benzoate. Just like the oily black rocks.
Using Frogurt and ghost grass under some special spells and some "oil" you can also create a smoothie. Very tasty!
☝the fuck?
I feel like the gemstones 'emperors' might actually refer to dynasties, or families, of the Great Empire dragon lords, each family having distinct traits (most prominently eye colour), with power shifting between them as time went on. The dragon lords who went on to found Valyria would've been members of the 'Amethyst' family (probably because they abandoned/fled the Great Empire after the blood betrayal) hence Valyrian dragon lords exhibiting 'amethyst' eyes exclusively.
This kinda makes sense from a meta standpoint too, as it basically makes the 'Great Empire -> Valyria' story a rehash of the 'Valyria -> Targaryen' story (both of them being an Atlantis story to begin with), which makes it easier to write, but isn't really a cop out considering it's just legends in a companion piece, left mostly un-explained anyway.
Agree it’s the most likely scenario
can be, make sense
there's also a heavy connection between the Empire of Dawn and Chinese mythology so the dynasty theory makes sense, especially when you consider the proximity of the Yi-Ti to the region
I like the dynasty angle as a potential way of explaining the length of how long the first "emperors" reigned. Instead of it being one person who ruled for centuries its actually the dynasty with connotations with the relevant stone with some exhageration on the length of the reign
The Golden Empire of Yi-Ti claiming inheritance of the Great Empire of the Dawn is like the Holy Roman Empire claiming inheritance of the Roman Empire
The Long Night sounds like a meteor impact which might have happened near Asshai. Smoke and debris clouding the sky for generations, the impact itself unearthing radioactive elements from the dregs of the earth, poisoning and ruining the waters of the Ash river, global temperatures dropping, empires crumbling, crops failing, people dying. And in the midst of all this, the Bloodstone Emperor going insane because he can't make any sense of what's happening.
Yeah, there's magic, oily cursed black stone, sorcerers and dragons but the Long Night HAD to have been something scientifically plausible huh?😆.
@@marcoslaureano5562 I think the irony in that very scenario is what makes it all the more interesting.
@@marcoslaureano5562 magic has to come from somewhere why not space?
@@marcoslaureano5562 : LOLS TRUE!
“THE FUCK YOU MEAN A ROCK FELL OUT OF THE SKY”
This was the perfect thing to watch as I take the occasional glance out my window on abandoned plague ridden streets...
Oso Isko you be careful to ride the pale mare
Ha because everyone has covid19 at this point.
@@sashagabel5001 Most people probably have!
@@made-line7627 yea just like 800k people died from it in the US alone lmao
@@docop8926 Haha did they? Or did their PCR tests pick up on non-infectious viral fragments from past infection, and they actually died of old age or their significant co-morbidities? Not saying that _no one_ died of COVID-19, though 800k is such an overestimation.
As a historian, the lore book is a gold mine! Treating as if it were real, the idea of mistranslation of primary sources, unreliable sources and how partial the main writer (maester) is, add to that a sprinkle of folklore and metaphors taken literally... Oh its so wonderful and rich!
Weird theory: some westerosi houses were founded by empire of dawn colonists. Valyrians were refugees after the fall of the empire. The last hero was himself a dragon rider and after saving the world went to the Valyrian peninsula. He had 40 sons and 40 daughters, founding the 40 dragonlord houses. That is why the targaryens are so important in the Azor Ahai prophecy: they are literally the last descendants of Azor Ahai.
I agree with all of that save the last hero going to Valyria, but it seems certain the Valyrians descend from the Great Empire of the Dawn so Dany and Jon are still the last scions of this bloodline. Plus I think the Starks descend form Nights King so in all ways this is Jon, Dany, and Brian’s problem to solve
@@DavidLightbringer yeah the valyrians definitely came from the great empire. This would also explain their unusually democratic power sharing system of governance-they saw the old empire fall into ruin with infighting as a result of concentrated political power. Thus, they decided to try somewhat of a democracy.
@@bensonfang1868 this pseudo-democratic system also carried over in the Triarchs of Volantis
@@DavidLightbringer Brian? Thank you, now I imagine Bran saving the world singing "Always look on the bright side of life"... 🤣
Except millions of humans would be descendants of Azor Ahai, considering the many dragonseeds in Plaentos
Shame D&D arent fantasy fans, cus i feel like we would have seen the more exotic fantastical elements of game of thrones like asshai and old valryia etc
They said they did not understood the magic or fantasy part, but since they ran out of materials ever since season 5 u got to ask if they understand politics, military strategy or even human behavior for that matter.
Ash ez best answer ever!
After season 5 I stopped thinking of the show as an adaptation and more of a professional wrestling parody of the books. CleganeBowl!
Ash ez or even the concept of dying and that it’s kind of permanent most of the time! #dothrakirevival
Pamela Bezerra
Melisandre kind of forgot that she could only revive one person at a time!
maybe the valyrians came from Asshai escaping a sort of doom that happened over there, and started their freehold in Valyria, sort of like the Targaryens escaped the doom of valyria and went west to rule the 7 kingdoms
Exactly. This is the scenario I am picturing. I talked about the dispersal patterns from the great Empire in this video:
ruclips.net/video/M-1i5PctNWE/видео.html
i think all the valyrians had original blood ties to the Amethyst Empress. it was said that all the rulers in the empire of the dawn had gemstone eyes,( tourmaline, pearl, topaz, amethyst etc.) i think everyone with eyes of purple fled the great empire after the bloodstone emperor overthrew his amethyst sister
Hint Great Empire Of the Dawn made colonies. I think that Valyria was one of the many include Westeros. The Daynes and Hightowers were station there to supervise the capturing of slaves as in Giants. When the GEOTD collapse they just stayed there they were never Valyrains.
@LagiNaLangAko23 that maybe a lie Dragons weren't never found in Valyria. They brought they here and it maybe there were Shepherds people there at first, but I think they enslaved them.
has it not also said that valyrians where just simple sheep herders before finding the dragon eggs?
I feel like any civilization who tames dragons meet a horrible apocalyptic end. The ruins of valryia are kind of exactly like the shadow lands except for the long night it was the long day
Maybe the maestars realize that so destroyed the Targaryens
I feel like The Lost empire of the Dawn probably accidentally created some things like wyverns and fireworms, if not dragons due to some kind of cataclysmic event related to magic. Thereafter the valerians just didn't learn their lesson.
Here's the thing, the old Gods of Valyria are described as being part Human part Dragon, we know that Dragons live very long, and we know that The God Kings ruled for thousands of year at a time, what if the myth of the Valyrian Gods is based on the Emperors Of The Dawn?
It also makes sense if you consider Dany's dream, the people she saw. What if the God Kings weren't human, or dragons, but both.
That would also explain why sometimes, Targaryens give birth to winged lizard babies like Dany's son, Rhaego.
Also a lot of Targaryens still borne come out same as rhaego and there was that one girl who rode her dragon to valyria and came with fywrms in her skin and she burning from the inside
Or Maegor the cruel's issues
I lean more towards whatever resides in Asshai performing blood magic/genetic manipulation on the ancient valyrians to create dragon riders - but either way, there's certainly something "odd" about the valyrian bloodline. If GRRMs Lovecraft influence (which shows its head more and more I think) is anything to go by all the magic that is inherited by the characters in ASoIaF is the result of ancient abominations.
Excellent points! I hadn't thought of that before, but seems to make sense
@@rebornstillborn it would also add to the logic that the bloodlines of dragon riders don't mix well with common folk, hence the difficulty in births outside of incestuous relations, and the normalized incest culture as well
They aren't fully human
... not to mention that Valyrian steel is usually described as almost black, not pale as the blades in the hands of Dany's "fever dream ghosts". Only one blade is described that way, and it's name directly links it to the Great Empire of the DAWN, the battle for the DAWN and therefore also Lightbringer.
Yes that’s why I tend to think Dawn is a remnant of the original Great Empire sword tech, with Valyrian steel being the corrupted version
@@DavidLightbringer But Dawn isn’t made of Valyrian Steel. Even though it is often referred to as being one of the known Valyrian blades of Westeros. It’s metal comes from the rock of a fallen star. Hard to say Valyrian is the corrupted version since it doesn’t use stars wouldn’t you say my friend? Corrupt yes. But of its own I would say since it’s rumored to be blood magic and dragon fire that Valyrians used with the steel to forge their weapons.
With Asshai being so foreboding and basically deserted, there can be secrets and truths about the Great Empire located all throughout the city but if you 1. Were too frightened to go there, you wouldn’t find it
2. If you didn’t know what you were looking for/looking at, it wouldn’t mean anything to you.
This happens constantly with ruins of lost cities and empires in our own world.
Really hoping Dany visits via glass candle and we can learn more about the GEOTD!
That's so true! Good point
Remember that next time someone reports seeing a bigfoot or some other cryptid....
A meteorite that brings blight and turns those who worship it crazy? Sounds like Lovecraft to me.🌹
Very Colour out of Space. Probably my second fave HP Lovecraft tale after Shadow Over Innsmouth (which seems to be one of George's fave inspirations)
Isnt in Lovecraft the thing making people crazy the truth and the realization of beeing the only ones that see it usually? I always saw it more like that than actually making them crazy. We europeans tend to have a different view on Lovecraft most of the time and to be honest he is not very liked here anyway...
@@weedhigh2564 HAHAHHHAHAHAA can I ask why?
@@aurelian2668 I dont really know to be honest, people here just dont know about him.
Sounds like warpstone, yes-yes.
The seastone chair having that stone is definatly interesting.
It certainly points the finger at whoever was there before the ironborn being from GEotD.
@@jojoladydayne7311 but what does that mean for the iron born as it stands now, because the seastone chair also feels very linked to the Drowned God
@@trickyagent127 it likely suggests that the drowned god is tied to the Bloodstone Emperor, as both are obvious HP Lovecraft references.
The stone is also mentioned in the Hightower construction. Couple that with the Thousand Islands and Ibbese and you get definite call outs to Lovecraft's Eldritcy influences. The Black Goat, Lion of Night, the Pale Child, the Squamous entities, etc.
Martin does many homages and ties much of his inflience into the darker natures and weakest aspects of humanity. Like either a realist or a cynic, depending likely on the day, and your point of view.
@@trickyagent127 The drowned god could be the bloodstone / meteorite? That quote about the water being red in somewhere, possibly because of a plant or... A bloodstone! If old mate whacko god emperor worshipped it, stands to reason he may have had followers. Some of those followers end up on the Iron Islands. Their descendants call themselves Iron Born and worship a 'drowned god'...
Loved the theory. I had never considered that a "bleeding star" could have been called a bloodstone once it landed. This is up there for my top five ASoIaF theories.
The Old Nan voice, instant classic.
its almost too big of a coincidence that magical seeming dooms happened to the 2 Kingdoms with Dragon lords.
The fire of the gods is always hot to handle
Yup true
I can NEVER get enough asshai. Thank you for my daily dose. Cheers.
Ascended to heaven huh, didn't know George reads Wuxia novels, good shit. Chinese lore is very interesting to add to GoT I think
yeah, I didn't even get into the mythology behind the maiden made of light and the line of night, but they're drawn from Eastern mythology absolutely. Amaterasu in particular:
mythopedia.com/japanese-mythology/gods/amaterasu/
@@DavidLightbringer That link just makes me wonder about the first men (Storm God in ironborn religion from your oak and holly king videos) now with relation to the bloodstone emperor (and Susano'o). 😔
Questions that hurt my head now:
- Are first men then descended from the bloodstone emperor and the valyrians the amethyst empress?
- Or how does the bloodstone emperor with his inspiration with Susano'o fit into this?
- Maybe it's just inspiration from different sources
- Maybe it's related
Thanks a bunch 😂😂😂🤣
The artwork for Asshai is so good... If I were to be put into the ASOIAF universe it's the first place I'd want to go, after I've made enough coin to hire some adventurers and mercenaries, and a ship that is.... It probably wouldn't end well though.
You gotta go to asshai to learn magic and then go and make hella money
Most likely you will be dead by that very same crew you recruited if we believe of what euron claim to be true, that only he and his crew are the only one brave enough to travel to Ashai.
It's seems like the safest way for you to travel to Ashai is to join the lord of light cult and raise within these temple ranks untill your presence in Ashai is both approved and required to further serving their god.
@@muhammadzulkarnaen4229 Didn’t Marwyn the Mage go to Asshai too?
Yep. He was also a scholar of an established organization, so he might have been better protected.
The territory of the great empire of the dawn is so large that you would need dragons to conquer it.
The other large empires in asoiaf
The Valyrian Freegold and the Sevenkingdoms were created with dragons as well.
You'd probably need dragons just to get anywhere in any reasonable amount of time at all.
True!
What about the Dothraki? Maybe not an empire but its pretty massive and akin to the Mongolian empire
@@StudioBleenk Nomadic tribes (in reality) like the dothraki do not really control large territories like settled societies do. Nomads only displace or murder any farmer trying to encroach on their land. While settled societies exert constant controll over their territory to levy taxes and upheld law and order.
To exert controll across a thousand kilometres of land a state needs gunpowder, railways, or Dragons.
I agree in principle, but real life empires were just as big if not bigger with similar levels of tech. All you need is good infrastructure and a functioning bureaucracy
This video is the one that healed the trauma of seasons 7 and 8 and put me back into ASoIaF
I think the mythical lore is just really cool of the Valyrian Race in this story. You can tell George was inspired by the Atlanteans or the Hyperboreans.
@R. W Indeed. Those guys made it all the way to Ireland in the West and India in the East. Possibly even Western China where they became known as the Tocharian people.
@@evalationx2649 thats fan fiction history
Or numenoren
A tiger-woman to bride? CAROLE BASKIN!
It’s all connected!!
@@jeffgustafson4552 Who is the Harpy? Carole f*****g Baskin!
Now I NEED a Witcher/Rhaegar-type video only it's about Tiger King who is Azor Ahai.
💀
Killed the dragons. Whacked 'em!
Can't convince me that this didn't happen!
big lover of this theory. i always interpreted the different gemstone emperors ruling for thousands/hundreds of years to just be different dynasties and an exaggeration like most myths are
I would love to read a novel dedicated solely to the shadow lands.
Think that one is by H.P. Lovecraft
@@DavidLightbringer Something in the likes of Donald Tyson's Necronomicon: The wanderings of alhazred. Regardless of what people think of his writting, I think he nailed how someone would learn magic in a low fantasy setting and how a trip through asshai would go.
I'd love the freaking main series books to be finished first. Dude's been slackin haha
@@jonny-b4954 You know it’ll never be finished right 😂
@@justinlogan869 I truly don't believe it will be. He's lost interest to a degree, I think. That's why all the other projects interest him and he jumps on them.
The descriptions of the emperor kinda remained me of the first men custom of open approval of spreading the heroic seed if you will, the hundred queens. The god emperor status, the possible outcome of being azor ahai, a savior king and or queen among followers of the lord of light. Finally the reign that lasted for a thousand years possibly as a result of being idk an undead zombie of magical origin. . . Sorry you probably mention all of this since they’re all ideas I’ve had from watching your videos, i’m only 4 min in and I just got really excited
Peal emporor = Garth Greenhand confirmed!
There’s also Prestons theory which I particularly like in which warging and dragon riding are X linked genes. Two X’s gets you a green seer. The thing is if you have a male passing his X chromosome he will Always pass that X chromosome. So any women born from that pairing will be a warg.
I'm still convinced asshai is eldritch in nature and was constructed much like the city in "At the the mountains of madness"
Refresh my memory on that... I remember the isle of Leng and the freaky cities there and on the way there... Don't remember the creation story tho
I pictured asshai to be like kadath, which is an immense city with kind of nightmarish architecture. It was built by the shoggoth for their old god creators. To me, asshai seems older than the empire of the dawn and may have always been a corrupt land, probably due to an old God sleeping near stygai. And a fun idea, if dragons came from asshai, giving them to humans seems like a solid way for shub-niggurath to mess with humanity, which is what he does.
@@dydcpk yes, this explanation could also make sense... if it wasn't the great Empire of the Dawn, then this is the likely answer. Alternatively, there could be a hybrid scenario of sorts, where the great Empire of the Dawnwas in contact with these dark dragon Lords from The Shadow... perhaps a few of these were hired to come out and build the Five Forts or whatever. This kind of explanation could also make sense, but there's just not a lot to go on to suggest it - it's just kind of filling in the gaps with deductive reasoning and by considering the lovecraftian influences. the other thing about the great Empire of the Dawn theory that I like is that it actually intersects with the main story. Is something here about what it means for Jon or Dany to be Azor Ahai reborn and about the origin of dragons, or perhaps more likely the purpose of dragons. Plus, in the next video, we're going to consider the presence of the Daynes and Hightowers in Westeros and the crossover between the GeotD, Westeros, and the last hero.
Yeah there really isn't much to go on but I think you're right about the empire of the dawn. I just know damn well Martin dropped an old God near asshai and it's a nasty bit of business for the land around the city. I'm stoked for the next video!
Not a negative comment: My sheer frustration after Seasons 5-7 and then just straight up anger from season 8, sent me down a D&D hate hole on YT which brought me to Quinn's channel (GoT critique videos not hate ones) about 6 months ago. The videos you guys have done together recently brought me to your channel. I am now a big fan of your videos.
D&Ds incompetence brought me here and that's a great silver lining, I'd say. Haven't watched this yet but will tonight. Keep up the great work.
so coming from that standpoint, you may enjoy my series called the king brand, and the one called the true character of Daenerys Targaryen. Those are the videos I made right after last season ended ... With the King brand series, I went back into the books and the lore to figure out what a greenseer king will actually look like in the books, which was a lot of fun, and indeed Daenerys series, it was mostly about doing a book by book free read And looking for hints about her character, foreshadowing of where her bark is going, and that sort of thing. I've always felt very connected to Daenerys, I think the show ending really got the character wrong. After doing the reread, I'm more sure of that than ever, and very sure her ending in the books will be a lot different. All look for your comments to see how you enjoy those videos! There's also one called Battle of Winterfell which deals with the connections between the Starks, the others, and the weirwood trees which were left unexplored on the show
@@DavidLightbringer Will do, thank you for the reply! And I will let you know about those others in the comments.
Whilst I'd love to see George show us the GEOTD in the books I feel like he won't do it.
But all these dead empires could be a great setting for a FromSoft game...
It would be beautiful
God damnit, now I'll have to lie awake at night imagining what could have been.
I think he wants to do a Yeeti TV show so I'm sure it will be expanded canonically
The tiger woman could also be a child of the forest? Aren't they often depicted with feline features?
Could be posible in the bookst they are depicted as small humans with brownish sking spoted like a dear,having only 3 fingers and a thumb,with black sharp claws and cat eyes usally yellow or gold like the sun. And we do know that they could have posible relatives in Essos that are called Ifequevron so I guess he chose one of the as a wife.
And TWOIAF also mentions what are obviously cousins of the Children in the forests of Essos, if they aren't the same species. They also have Shade of the Evening trees there instead of the white weirwoods.
Yes! I've speculated about that extensively, as a matter of fact. There is an older series called weirwood goddess, and it also comes up in the Weirwood Compendium and the Green Zombies: old crones videos. I'd recommend the WE goddess series though if you're interested in this line of exploration. I think Nissa Nissa herself was a cotf or a hybrid.
The Tiger Woman is Cersei Lannister. Euron is the bloodstone emperor. He will cut Tyrion's tongue and offer to Cersei as a wedding gift(Silent Lion theory). This is all foreshadowed in the Forsaken chapter, as well as in some of Tyrion's chapters.(possibly hinted even at the TV show)
@@fang609 The Jogos Nhai are also pretty similar to the CotF in some ways, though their hostile ways are very man-like too.
Clearly, the correct answer is that Asshai was capitol of an Empire of Ghost Grass eating Squishers with saffron plantation in Ulthos. People always forget about the saffron plantation in Ulthos.
I know I’m a little late to this, but I’m seeing parallels with the conquest of Westeros.
Amethyst house=last dragon lord house of the dawn, flees and conquers Valyrian peninsula
Targaryens=Last Valyrian dragon lord house, flees Valyria and conquers Westeros
So basically, The Great Empire of the Dawn is where it all started. Now this could make a great prequel series. An ancient kingdom ruled by gods, ruined by the sin of man and one bad god. Would make for great commentary for today's society as well as long as a great story with a lot of intrigue and mystery. Man the visuals in that show could be some of the best of all time. The ideas are endless. AM I REALLY THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN SMELL THE MONEY HERE!?!?!?!?
Edit: Seriously, why waste time on a prequel everybody knows the ending to, when we have a gold mine for original storytelling here. I know the irony here, but the amount of original stories we could put in here before that inevitable end is endless. Seriously HBO, once House of the Dragon is done, you could (and should) look into this. It would be a certified hit.
And there are many people like myself and I assume you as well, who are hungry for the mysteries to be explored by GRRM/HBO. Imagine seeing those gemstone emperors on screen!
Mystery is really important, if it was explained a lot of magic will be lost.
The only problem i could see with that story is the fact that a nearly identical one already exists. The seven deadly sins on Netflix.
Omg imagine if we’re actually gonna get a series about Great Empire of the Dawn. But i think HBO is building up, as GRRM said he wants the ASOIAF universe to be kinda like the MCU.
Not really. There is still evidence of other great/ancient civilizations that may have existed in those times as well. But it may be where the history of Dany's people started. Many an empire in our own world fell due to ongoing warfare and infighting.
So, Dany's ancient ancestors were fighting some massive war with another great civilization. Which is why they built those gigantic forts. Depending on how those forts were placed., we can assume that the enemy came from that direction. And it seems that Dany's ancestors were fleeing from something. Why else would they relocate with no trace of them being found elsewhere. They were the only survivors.
I really hope we get an explanation for the continent of Ulthos and the islands above/around it; I love all the lore surrounding that area I find it fascinating and can't wait to learn it's origins
What if the fact that there is many names for azor ahai could mean there were more than one and they were the last dragon riders fighting back for each of those kingdoms that cropped up after the dawn
The suggestion about asshai once being the capital of the great empire of the dawn makes so much sense
"A great knife of pain ripped down her back, and she felt her skin tear open and smelled the stench of burning blood and saw the shadow of wings."
As well as being a metaphor for Dany realising and embracing her potential, could this also perhaps be an allusion to the origins of the Valyrians within the Great Empire of the Dawn as a potential product, intentional or otherwise, of the weird hybrid experiments, i.e. Dracomorph?
Oh jeez
Yeah it could be
Strange how the waters outside of the forts is described as "supposedly a plant" to be behind it's blood like form? Mayhaps it's the crater? Bloodstone and such.
I was thinking to myself where is the crater to the meteorite theory now this makes a lot of sense. I wonder if it has connection to the demons that were a part of that first long night
Yaassss, I have been waiting for more Great Empire of The Dawn!
I've always wondered if Daenerys is the reincarnation of the Amethyst Empress and the Others are the remnants of the Bloodstone Emperor.
Or maybe all the Emperors and The Empress are from the same blood and descendants of the God-on-Earth and Daenerys is descendant of all of them. I like to think that the Targaryens were form the blood of the royal family of the Great Empire of the Dawn and all the rest of the Valyrians were descendant of it's population. But it's just a supposition.
@@julianagouveia5047 I say the Targaryens are special because they are Valyrian. Plus the Targaryens were the lowest of Noble Valyrian families.
Blake Hunt They didn’t have the power to compete with other Noble dragon riding Valyrians.
@@Nubin2000 But Daenerys seems to be diferent of the others Targaryens.
@@Nubin2000 maybe the 42 noble families of valyria are all descended from the gemstone emperors/empresses... maybe it's a qualification of being inside the 42 circle no matter how much newbie dragon riders come up. the newbies won't ever enter the exclusive 42 circle. just a theory that came up to me while reading the comments on this thread 😅
I support the theory that the Bloodstone Emperor (BSE) and the Night's King (13th Lord Commander, NK from now on) stories are based on similar events. If we assume the NK married a White Walker, both he and the BSE married a magical creature. Both had horrific reigns that ended when a united front battled them and latter scattered, fearful of one leader uniting the troops and reign the region again. That's why the true North wasn't united until Mance.
Now, if we look at Euron, we find both he and the BSE came to power after kin- and kingslaying. Both are involved with enslaving and since the Ironborn's throne is made of a black oily rock and a throne being a symbol for power we can say both the BSE and Euron worship a black rock.
An important connection between the BSE and Euron could be the Cult of Starry Wisdom. The BSE was the first high priest of that cult that's still alive in the modern times of the story, even though it seems mostly to be a thing in ports. Euron, being the traveller by boat, must have come across members of the Cult. Heck, he even claims he's been to Asshai.
With the BSE, the Night's King and Euron we have three similar characters in three eras of the story. By looking to the past we can guesstimate what will happen in the future. Learning more about the Bloodstone Emperor will give us more hints about what will happen to Euron. And I'm here for it!
Well, I totally agree with all of that, no doubt. What we're talking about here is an archetype, really. It's not just Euron as an echo of NK and BSE... There's also Aemond One Eye, Rhaegar, Stannis, and even Jon. All those people have Azor Ahai symbolism too - essentially, the way I see it, the NK archetype can be thought of as "Evil Azor Ahai," is mirrored by The Last Hero / "good AA" archetype. It's all quite messy and there is some overlap, but the parallels between these characters are undeniable. Just start with all the people that have one blue eye - Aemond One Eye, Euron, Waymar Royce at the end, and even the Blue Bard (the one Cersei and Qyburn torture). The one eye symbol denotes Transcendence of life and death, a la Odin, but having the one I be blue, instead of red like Bloodraven, it makes us think of ice magic and the Others of course.
Check out the long night was his to rule, one of my older podcast videos. It goes into this archetype in depth, I'm sure you would find it interesting given your observations here!
@@DavidLightbringer You're right, I meant to describe the archetype I see in all three characters and what they represent in terms of being the Emperor Palatine of their timelines. All three of them do appear to be linked, I agree with your description of them as Evil Azor Ahai. Even though we know very little of him, but I propose we should add the Warg King to the NK archetype over Stannis and Jon, but I'm only just now catching up to all of your videos so I'm curious for your reasoning. Oh, the joyous upside of quarantine!
My comment was aimed more towards your notion of Eldric Shadowchaser being a name used in Westeros and how you would link Westeros to the Great Empire. If we do agree there are three people who fit the Evil Azor Ahai role in the story, would a possible connection not be one of poetic rhyme in a ring theory?
As you may be able to tell from my profile pic here on RUclips, I'm a Star Wars fan (it's the symbol of the Jedi Order). One poetic thing in the first Star Wars trilogies that I love is that it uses a Ring Theory as proposed by Mike Klimo. Basically, Klimo points out how both Luke and Anakin Skywalker are facing very similar situations in the films. They go through similar arcs, but the camera work shows Luke is rising up into Jediism and Anakin falls to the dark side. I'm not doing the expansive theory any justice by summarising it. I think RUclips comments block url links, but if you look on Google for "Star Wars Ring Theory" you can find the link to Mike Klimos site.
If we look at the Night's King story and follow Old Nan in assuming the Night's King is a brother of Brandon the Breaker and pair that with the archetype and close links between the Night's King and the Bloodstone Emperor... I think it's interesting that two such evil human(oid)s we meet in the story feature kinslaying. With Euron obviously also involved in kinslaying with Balon, Harlon and Robin, it is an other interesting element that involves the story of all three (and this is where I can see why you would consider Stannis to fit the archetype).
If elements throughout history do so often repeat themselves in Georges story. Not just with the Bloodstone Emperor, but also with the Night's King and Euron. If these events repeat themselves independent from each other... I am inclined to buy your theory of astrology playing a factor in all this.
Anyway, I'm going to go through your backlog and hope to stay up-to-date on your new projects! I very much enjoyed the series you did with Quinn and hopefully my schedule permits me to be there for tomorrow's stream!
*Makes screeching wyvern noise* Thank you for doing this video. The GEOTD, Shadow People, Asshai etc...are my favourite aspects of the mythology.
I actually already starting theorizing and writing about the scraps of an ancient dragon lord civilization in the shadow lands by Asshai so I am insane how much more evidence there is for it. I never read A World of Ice and Fire so I didn't catch any of this and would not have put it all together a fraction as elegantly.
I've got a pet theory that The Bloodstone Emperor is a misremembered hero, and foreshadowing Jon.
- Necromancy/coming back from the dead
- Huge amounts of blood to be spilled in his name
- At the time of a long night
- Kills his relative, the Amethyst Empress (Dany analog)
- Taking a Tiger-Woman as his bride (Very loose, but potentially Jon taking a Lion lannister as a bride post Dany stab?)
- Feasts on human flesh (long night = starving = desperate measures and cannibalism)
- Cast down the 'True gods' (Keeps the old gods, not The Seven)
- Worships black stone (Dragonglass for fighting the Others)
- Various horrors of his reign being due to the long night, not him causing it
10,000 years and things are very easy to get muddled, look how the story of Ned Stark's death is already spreading as him being a traitor and schemer. Jon, like Ned, sacrifices his honour for the greater good.
It's all completely vague and off hand here, but it's something I've not been able to get out of my head.
Every time I hear Fused Stone, I immediately think of concrete, and that the Dawn Empire may have found an early form of this. It also explains how massive blocks too big to move have been found. Timber moulds, casting the concrete where it stood?
Yo😮😂... It could be that simple.
Maybe they used dragons fire to create the concrete
I have read everything including historys,dunkin and egg stuff as well as all the main books. And I love how you guys and everyone brings all the history out of these little quotes left all over an incredible amount of fantasy writing and world-building and bring it to life
I absolutely love your new theme music
So the intro music right at the beginning and the section breaks is taken from Monty Python and the Holy Grail, everything else I made (the sci-fi spooky soundtracks and that funky GoT theme thing when I talk about Patreon)
I kind of thought for a while that the “cursed oily black stone” from long dead civilizations was something similar to how the Roman’s built aqueducts from lead. It was structurally amazing at the time and seemed so monumentally life changing but ultimately lead to their downfall by poisoning an entire population. I always wondered whether maybe the cursed stone was a grand spectacle for “the ways cities ought to be built” but certain properties of the stone itself or the completed product had dire consequences. I could totally see a deadly chemical being released from the oily stone when it was heated by dragon fire to be shaped and molded.
"Amethysts from Asshai" are a bit that keeps coming up. I wonder if there's a connection to the Amethyst Empress and the purple eyes of the Valyrians. Like... the empress's favored city was Asshai and she took her name from its favorite/abundant stone then did some people-dragon magic to make dragonlords/Valyrians/dragons, and put her signature on them with purple eyes? She perfected the sorcery all the emperors had been working on, or foresaw her overthrow and preserved the imperial bloodline (possibly with an eye toward a future Long Night)?
Love all that! And yea the black amethysts from Asshai in Sansa’s hairnet are the purple serpents with fangs dripping venom in the Ghost of High Heart’s vision. So, dragons again, and moon meteors too because that hairnet star serpent is what darkens the face of the sun. So it’s all Nissa Nissa stuff, and Nissa Nissa and the Am Empress are either the same or related figures
Could ascending to the stars be leaving on a dragon? (Haven’t watched the vid yet so don’t judge me if he already says it).
Could be... I took it as mythical, figurative language
The Grey King ended his reign by breaking up his driftwood crown and walking into the sea to join his father, the Drowned God, which is not too dissimilar from GoE ascending to heaven to join his ancestors. High Kings of the Iron Islands would have their crowns broken up and cast into the sea in commemoration of this. Furthermore, two events in Ironborn history parallel this: Erich "the Ugly" Greyiron, who had to break apart his crown and renounce his claim to kingship after crowning himself after his father's death w/o holding a kingsmoot, and Lodos, a priest proclaimed to be the son of the Drowned God (and thus brother of the Grey King), who led an uprising on the Isles in the wake of House Hoare's extinction at Harrenhal. When the Targaryens brought a fleet and army to subjugate the Isles, he called upon krakens to sink their ships; when no krakens appeared, he filled his robes w/rocks and walked into the sea to confer with his father. In other words, both were acts of defeat and/or submission, and so the Grey King's final acts should likely be read in the same manner.
Where it gets wild is that a generation later, a man claiming to be Lodos leads another rebellion on the Iron Islands. While this "Lodos the Twice-Drowned" is likely an imposter, the claim raises the symbolic motif of resurrection from the sea, mirrored in the CPR ritual that the Drowned Men perform (itself a mundane version of the R'hllorist last kiss spell), and Stannis mentions to Davos that part of the Azor Ahai mythos is "a hero reborn in the sea." So, given that Azor Ahai was probably the Bloodstone Emperor, was he also the reincarnation of the God on Earth? Or something?
The artwork in this is beautiful. Very atmospheric
This is by far one of your best videos! I love anything to do with Asshai and the Empire of the Dawn. It just makes Dany even more interesting, mysteries, and complex. Thank you !!!
thanks a lot, I worked really hard on this one and I have also learned a lot of new video editing tricks from working with the Quinn master!
I'm thinking that the Great Empire of the Dawn may have been larger than the Yi-Tish scribes describe, maybe it ruled over all of the known world (in the Dawn Age maybe? :P ), from Westeros to Sothoryos and Asshai and beyond, maybe it stretched far beyond the edge of the map in the south and east. If you look at the map, Asshai should by rights be a center of civilization, if the land hadn't been blighted. Imagine Westeros as Britain, on the periphery of the Roman Empire, Westeros being on the edge of the Empire of the Dawn. Some eastern colonists probably went there, but the people there weren't supplanted, just heavily influenced, just like in Britain with Rome.
Alternatively, like the Rhoynar, the First Men were victims of the GED's expansion and fled west to escape them with the GED itself never doing more than establishing small bases on the fringes of Westeros.
I think its just ruled from everything east of the bone mountains and wesr of the forts,with asshai as capital but probably had many colonies
I think it went further east than we originally think and was pushed all the way back to Yi Ti Oldtown is on the western coast of Westeros not the east. If they pushed west we would’ve seen houses with Valyrian features in Gulltown or duskendale.
@@alphagamer9505 there is also Ulthos.
@@kekero540 west of the five forts and east of the bone mountains
I was never sure when reading those passages in the World of Ice & Fire whether it was a poetic (cryptic) description of an astronomical event or an actual civil war of some sort. Some of the names could be titles of leaders/lands or could they be constellation?.( The Bible refers to Rome as the Eagle & Nero as the Beast whos number is 666) I mean we have tons of myths related to the constellations & celestial movements in our night skies as you well know. I guess the big question is; were all these different ancient cities fighting each other or united against something/someone else? Or were they simply committing a blood magic ritual on such a scale it literally became toxic? I'm not sure I was ever satisfied with the show origin story for The Others...
Can't wait for part 2 🌋🌠☄
What if the meteorite was a source of magic lifeforce energy and the bloodstone emperor was trying to replicate its effects? He fails and turns turns stonework black and cursed to suck in lifeforce energy instead.
That would make a lot of sense: magic is cyclical, but magic-based empires try to make new sources which ends in disaster.
Valerians sound like descendants of the amethyst empress, whos followers were probably driven out and explains how they figured out dragon taming and magic.
What if all the “ae”s in valerian names are a corruption of the “ai” that was used in the great empire?
That's possible since that is a common syllable along with "rys" "aera"
My main problem is with one aspect of this theory, the idea that Asshai was the capital of the Great Empire of the Dawn because it is not the most cursed place in the Shadow Lands, in fact it is most hospitible place in the Shadow Lands. If a catyclism that blighted the land destroyed the Great Empire of the Dawn in a way reminiscent of The Doom of Valyria it wouldn't make sense that Asshai the city would survive with the city intact, especially given the magical nature of both catyclisms. It wouldn't make sense for ground zero to be somewhere else. It's called Asshai by the Shadow for a reason. As I understand it there is actually a dead city in the heart of the shadow that even shadow binders avoid, which would make sense as the capital(or perhaps the Forbidden City or Versailles) of the Great Empire of the Dawn and the seat of the Bloodstone Emperor who caused The Long Night because it is still cursed from the much greater catyclism.
I mostly agree with you, in that I think the EpiCentre of the disaster - I tend to think meteor strike, but maybe it was just a horrifically dark spell - would have been at Stygai, the corpse City at the heart of the shadowlands which you alluded to. I don't think that makes it the capital though, it sounds more like a religious shrine, a dark Oracle of Delphi type place. That may be where the bloodstone emperor went to work his spell, or to sacrifice the amethyst empress, or whatever happens. But Asshai makes the most sense to me as the actual capital because of its sheer size. if the disasters epicenter was in the shadowlands as we both suspect, that would explain why the city wasn't destroyed, but just rather poisoned. if it was a meteor strike, then there is probably a big nasty black stone at Stygai or in the Shadowlands somewhere, it's fell magic leaching into the land and turning everything toxic and black. That is exactly what happened in the color out of space, which is probably lovecraft's most famous story about a meteorite..
The children of the forest have tiger eyes too. Which could make him a night king echo as well
No children or animals survive long=dark magical sacrifices, by all the dark sorcerer's and mages that live there?
I don’t understand why you don’t have 50k+ subscribers.
Everyone share LML’s. Channel with another or an Other.
The Great Other will be his new biggest fan lmao
Its the name of his channel. I do enjoy his content but i will not subscribe to a page that embraces Lucifer. Call me a religious idiot but a man must have a code.
@@MrJemal23 I mean... the word 'lucifer' used to refer to matchsticks.
The Twitterati came after him , but my man stood back up. Soon the fickle fandom will come back around. I’ve been listening to LML since 2016 and even with the Twatter stuff his content wasn’t derailed. Talk about staying the course.
Jrosa you watch the content though, why would you watch “lucifers” content but draw the line at subscribing??
i've been rewatching a bunch of your older videos that got me started with your channel.
thank you again for all of your work and collaborations with folks to bring us this content!
i appreciate you so much, LML.❤
I always thought the Long Night was planatos' version of the Tower of Babel. There are more direct descendants like the Daynes, but the empire of the dawn was the cradle of humanity
Then what about Yeen? Yeen seems far older than the Great Empire of the Dawn. And as a parallel to our own history, Sorthoryos like Africa could be the real cradle of humanity.
I was waiting for the next Idea of March but R’hllor damn I’ll take it.
Lucifer sempai noticed me
You nailed the "in the next episode" feel at 36:00, the music, the fast-pased speech and pictures fit perfectly. Good job! Looking forward for part 2!
Such a treat to come home and see LmL has uploaded! Very cool!
Excellent, excellent video. I really love your comparatively shorter videos that combine a bunch of your ideas. You should definitely consider doing more of these for your other theories! This video also made me extremely excited for Dany receiving some kind of glass candle induced vision of her Empire of the Dawn ancestors. Really hope we get something like this in TWOW!
Oh what a wonderful thing to wake up to
THIS MAKES PERFECT SENSE OMGGGG
Asshai was built by the bloodstone emperor at the tail end of the empire of the dawn. He used the oily black stone which came from the "magical" meteor that he worshipped to build the city.
The Church of Starry Wisdom, also sometimes known as the "Starry Wisdom Cult", is a sinister religious cult that worships Nyarlathotep in his aspect as the Haunter of the Dark, as described in 1939 horror short story "The Haunter of the Dark" written by H. P. Lovecraft
No no, the Church of Starry Wisdom is when LML does his sunday live streams ;)
George is into Lovecraft
@@devoleno I think it is a mix of the War of the Roses, Irish Mythology, Atlantis Fiction, Tolkien, HP Lovecraft, and Medieval Realism
@@covenawhite4855 Most definitely. A smorgasbord of some of my favorite themes in fantasy fiction, with just enough real world history to make it believable.
This vid have only been out for like a day, and already the comments are LIT
yeah they really were; that's why I had to call a livestream
Thanks for your friend's added commentary and your elaborate breakdown. Post appreciated
This essay just keeps on giving and giving. Your theories are so well thought-out and your passion for this material really comes trough.
Also, your diction is craaazy good - I can understand each and every word and the intonation is amazing too, so It's like a gift to a person to whom English is the second language.
Can't wait to watch part 2. Thanks for what you do, hopefully you are staying safe and healthy. Cheers from Iowa. -Tad
Fantastic presentation. I could look at this artwork all day long.
These damn Dragon Lords blighted Yeen, then Asshai, then Valyria and now Westeros is next 😭
This is still my favorite video you’ve made. I always find myself back here just to listen. Good Job man
This is such an excellent video! Please, make more content of this type
Awesome content, can't wait for part two!
Hell yeah man ill be here until you hit 100k and long after
Old Valyria/Doom of Valyria, Dance of The Dragons and The Great Empire of Dawn would be amazing HBO series. Would really loved to see a spin off series as well regards the most mysterious places on the map, like the east.
Whats your take on it being post apocalyptic, or at least having some kind of sci-fi elements involved? The waters in Asshai emitting green phosphorescence and the fish being deformed still makes you think of some kind of radioactive material being involved. Of course, it could just be dark magic, but still interesting to think about. Also the stones requiring dozens of elephants to move, could hint at lost technology, and the meteorites might be crashed starships etc.
Could be cool if you could make a video on the topic and the clues that can be found hinting at this, and what it could mean :)
Martin did write primarily sci-fi until ASOIAF, and there is his 'thousand worlds' universe to keep in mind, where planets and societies evolve very differently both culturally and technologically - some are super advanced, while others are basically medieval. This happens after an event known as the interregnum, where planets lose the ability to spaceflight or at least faster-than-light travel, and then connection gets lost between colonies.
Some of the stuff in ASOIAF which appear as magic, or magical items, might just be technology they dont really understand. Just as an example; a guy from medieval times holding a laser rifle, might just describe the thing as a magical metallic rod emitting fire or light.
I dont understand it to mean that ASOIAF is a post-apocalyptic sci-fi, i see it more as an ex sci-fi writers take on a post-apocalyptic fantasy.
But I still enjoy this take, and this way of seing things. I just dont think we will get some big sci-fi reveal in the end
I'm guessing Martin is just a fan of Zecharia Sitchin, but I'm with you. I doubt it would ever have anything to do with ASOIAF, but it may well be something in Martin's own head - something he quietly chuckles to himself about when people bring up the 'magic' of the fantasy, that it's all actually 'science' misappropriated by the characters. Wouldn't surprise me at all. But I'd say the meteor theory for the bloodstone and apparent radioactivity of Asshai is probably on point.
Extra theory: Dragons are alien creatures brought to ASOIAF Earth with the ancient alien invaders lol
I’m pretty sure Martin himself has shot down this theory. He said he was originally planning on making GoT ‘secret sci-fi’, where the world appeared to be medieval fantasy but was actually post apocalyptic sci fi but decided to go straight fantasy. Maybe some elements of this idea remain present but I doubt it will ever affect the plot of ASoIaF or become canon.
This is extremely high quality work . Love it
This was beautifully done. Thank you!
So would The Others have attacked The Great Empire of The Dawn or would the Bloodstone Emperor simply have just caused the long night?
Well, in the section about the five forts, there's a bit about their purpose being to keep the demons of the Lion of night at Bay. on the other side of the forts is the grey waste, which is a freezing desert. There are also a couple of hints about a northern passage, so it's absolutely conceivable that the others did attack in the east as well. I know Quinn has a good video on this from a couple years ago...
However in part 2, I will show how the great Empire of the Dawn came to Westeros, and how Azor Ahai's story links up with the Westerosi Long Night:)
@@DavidLightbringer my own theory is that the maps are a bit off, just like this one i.pinimg.com/564x/88/98/20/8898209fdf856c493d329e001081ebdc.jpg
... And, if the unruly nature of the seasons is due to an unstable tilt variation of the rotation axis of Planetos, they could'nt tell where the north was, because the Astral north would shift..
Thuuus, it could be that the grey wastes of syberia and the northernest parts of westerosi scotland are actually the same body of land.
@@DavidLightbringer
You mention a northern passage, which reminds me that the stories of the long night say the Rhoyne froze solid as far south as the Selhoru. The Rhoyne is supposedly the biggest river in the world. If a river that huge can freeze solid that far south, it's not really a stretch to assume the shivering sea became a solid desert that could be crossed on foot with no problem.
I think the Bloodstone Emperor did a spell that cause devastating effects to the environment of the planet it may have involved the oil black stone. It may cause by blood magic that why the Dothraki is against blood magic.
@@thevampireyahweh5253 does salt water freeze faster than fresh or is it the other way around? a river freezing doesn't necessarily equal a sea freezing but maybe it's reasonably possible.
This is some high quality content! Thank you!
This was my first visit to your channel. Instant sub. Now, onto binge-watching!
Thanks for the content bro
Much appreciated right now in this isolation
This is well and above one of the best ASOIAF videos I've ever seen. This is fantastic work, LmL.
Wow. This is really interesting. I like how the Quaithe quote pulls it all together.
Another GREAT theory & video!! Keep ‘em coming LBL!!
This is one of my most favourite videos on RUclips. Passion and command in the narrator’s voice is just on a legendary level. 🔥🔥🔥
Fantastic video my dude. Congrats.
Eldric Shadow chaser is a Michael Moorcock reference. Along with all the Carl Correy references are to Roger Zealazny's Corwin of Amber. Martin adds them into the deep lore to pay tribute to the authors that influenced him.
Yay! Something informative, interesting and entertaining while I socially distance myself. Thanks for breaking up the monotony yet again! By the way, the Old Nan impression was spot on.
Thank you, thank you, I always appreciate it when people acknowledge the genius of my old man impression. Really, it's the best thing I do =p
Really good video! Loved the narration, editing and music!
One of your best videos! Can't wait for Part 2!