Great Empire of the Dawn: Westeros
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- Опубликовано: 11 май 2020
- How do the legends of Azor Ahai and Lightbringer, which are from Asshai and the Further East, connect to Westeros, Dawn, the last hero and his dragonsteel, the Night's Watch, and the War for the Dawn? Are any Westerosi Houses descended from the Great Empire of the Dawn? (hint: yes) It's all here...
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So for all we know, Daynes and Hightowers could be descendants/loyalists of the Amethyst Empress who fled to Westeros after the Blood Betrayal.
My exact thoughts! ❤️
Especially since all of later dragon riders had purple eyes, I say yes. There is no way it’s a coincidence that Danny and her people all had purple eyes, silver hair and were pale asf and have literally NO connection. It’s makes sense and I like it more. I want to know the story there. What happened after the blood betrayal and in between the rise of the Valyrian empire
@@brandywebb5723 I mean inbreeding could also explain those, but YES I AGREE it all fits. Especially the sense that even if you don't have the "complexion" you STILL get the pale ass skin & 💜 👀 (the bloodline NEVER dissipate)
Might also explain his nickname.
Why dayns And hightowers can't Ride dragons ??
The Dayne's have another strange tradition, they only give their sword to someone that is worthy. What if this tradition started because the owner of dawn was not able skilled enough to vanquish the Night's King, and had to lend the sword to a Stark who's own sword had broken during the fight. The Stark then returned it once the battle ended and returned to Winterfell with his own broken sword. Him being remembered as the last hero.
thats a decent theory
Makes sense, the Dayne's wanna make sure they get the sword in hands of one truly worthy of it, like Dark Sister in House Targaryen.
The sheer amount of lore built around dragons, which GRRM added to the story in the eleventh hour, is astonishing.
This theory strongly implies that you can reach westeros by sailing through the saffron straits which I would love for Dany to do in the books along with Victarion's fleet
As does the fact that Sunchaser, a ship which sailed west of westeros, is later spotted old and aged in Asshai by the Sea Serpent on one of his voyages.
it would be nice if there was a little more land there, like a smaller continent, at least we're still only halfway across the planet, taking into account that something like the summer islands, dorne or somewhere "northern" (still far to the south lol) of sotoryos might be the equivalent of what the equator is in real life we still have an immense vastness of sotoryos one probably the Americas and maybe Australia of this world? If all this does not exist, we still have the frozen desert of Westeros and the rest of those areas that have not yet been explored.
For all we know, it could actually be a greater distance going West from Westeros to reach the Dawn Lands. This theory doesn't really imply which direction they travelled to reach Westeros
That's so cool! To go west you must go east
Correct if I'm wrong but didn't Quaithe said that Daenerys needed to go to Ashai in order to go to Westeros or something like that?
As to how Dawn got into the hand of the last hero (if the last hero wasn't a Dayne), the books mentioned the last hero had a group of companions, who one by one died, leaving only the last hero. So perhaps a Dayne was in that group, died, leaving his sword available for the last hero. And then the last hero returned it to Starfall after the war.
Not a bad idea at all!
Ned did the same thing it tracks lol, it's almost a tradition among a sad group of friends of past swords of the morning to return the sword
Agreed. It would make sense for the surviving hero to take up the sword that was working against his enemies when little else did. It would make even more sense for the surviving hero to feel honored bound to return the ancestral blade the helped save his life and win the battle even with such a long journey required to do so. All things would still fit with a Dayne traveling north to stop the long night and a Stark being the last hero.
@@DavidLightbringer You’ll probably never see this but I can’t believe you missed the most obvious Numenor/ Dayne connection: the other kingdom Elendil founded was called Arnor, and it eventually got split into three kingdoms, one of which was Arthedain. Arthur Dayne. They sound identical, and given all the references to Tolkien and Numenor specifically in asoiaf, I think it’s likely Martin got the idea for Arthur Dayne from Arthedain.
The bloodstone emperor also has major Witch king of Angmar vibes
@@AskMia411thats rlly clever
You almost completed the point also that at the Tower of Joy (incident) we had Dawn (the sword), two Starks, a Hightower, one maybe two Daynes (Arther and Ashara) and (not present) a Targaryen involved. All the ingredients and houses with heavy links to the original myths.
Sounds like the creation of the Powerpuff girls
@@arawn1061 😂😂😂
@@arawn1061 The Valyrians can actually ride dragons and have a higher temperature tolerance because of Chemical X
The first hightower putting an end to the dragons at Oldtown is kinda good foreshadowing for whats currently happening in House of Dragon
Well, the Hightowers in HotD aren't looking to wipe out the Dragons though... if anything, they wanna just join them.
George does seem to like to have ancient events play out again in the current time
@@thalmoragent9344 Good point, but I don’t think it has anything to do with them not “wanting” to bring an end to the HoTD or Targaryen. Like some of the very first symbolism/forshsdowing with the Stag killing the Direwolf in GOT, it’s foreshadowing of House Hightower bringing an end to House Targaryen’s height of power with the Dance of Dragons.
And that is forshadowing that for the age of reason to be born, the death of the old magic must happen.... The Death of the moon beasts.
The mysteries surrounding Asshai are so interesting as is the background of Battle Isle on Oldtown. To reach west you must go east!
"To go south you must go North"
To 'reach' West you must go east the hightowers came from east or the the planet being a globe all kinds of ideas just popped into my head reading that thank you
@@JoeyWhisperz I did that by accident but you're right! Danny showing up in Oldtown!
@@JoeyWhisperz GRRM has said that Planetos is spheroid, and the Elissa Farman plotline from Fire & Blood strongly implies that you can get to Asshai by sailing west from Westeros, which implies that the Great Empire could get to Westeros by sailing east from Asshai.
Further evidence for this is in the three islands (Aegon, Rhaenys, and Visenya) that Farman found on her voyage. Eustace Hightower recounted that they found all sorts of strange fruits and beasts there (including what seem to be Komodo Dragons), but also herds of feral pigs. Which implies that somebody had previously been using the islands as a waystation for long-distance ocean voyages, releasing pigs on the island to create a highly adaptable, self-restocking resupply depot. Watch the Extra History episode on the Spanish using pigs in their conquest of the Americas for a primer on the utility of this tactic for overseas empire-building
it makes sense that everyone in westeros is terrified to go east due to the stories of the summer sea, it would be logical to believe that the monsters and magic of the summer sea is due to its attachment to asshai? i could be logistically off
What if the Daynes didn't follow a falling star to make a meteorite sword, what if their ancestors from Asshai followed the falling star from there all the way to Westeros?
For sure, I was trying to imply that both are possible :)
@@DavidLightbringer I had never considered that, I like that a lot. :D Love all your videos, btw. Been binging your channel since I found it the other day.
Perhaps they were guided by otherworldly forces!
Like those Biblical wise men from the East...
@@DavidLightbringer That’s my thought too. If these meteors are the sources of the Great Empire’s flaming “dragon steel” swords, that would make them valuable, so they would probably go in search of every one they could. One brought them to Westeros, where they set up their outpost, but without the full night of the Empire behind them all they could do was establish a foothold, but could not conquer. At some point another meteor fell and that’s the one that the Bloodstone emperor came to worship. Something was different about this stone and it corrupted him and all of Asshai, and the dust and fallout caused the long night.
It does feel like the next books have plenty of space for them to finally visit in depth Hightower and Dayne.
Part of why I dont fault him for taking so long. The average reader has no idea how complex these subplots are.
Kris B yeah, it a situation when he so completely left them untouched he could make them really significant or not suppose, or some items they need. It just odd having the two houses so untouched
I suspect that he needed a break from writing them. Brandon Sanderson switches series so he he gets variety. He is much quicker at writing and a lot younger, which may contribute a lot, but I wonder if Martin has taken so long because he needed to work on other things for a while and also needing so much time to "water his seeds". These storylines are so complex, it really wouldn't surprise me. His other books baser in the world of Ice and Fire may have helped him with TWOW and ADOS.
Id rather it take years for the final two to come out than for them to be a rushed mess
I was a huge Melisandre fan when she first came onto the show. She was just so vastly different from Westeros, and I started reading about Asshai and the legend of Azhor Ahai. Then I went down a rabbit hole about Yi Ti, the Asshai dragon lords, and dark magic. Seeing this in my recommended made me excited, I’m glad to know others appreciate the Far East of Ice and Fire.
I couldn't agree more! Melisandre is just so fascinating in so many ways. Such a juxtaposition to the cold, anti-magic, and (for a large part) passionless upper class of Westeros. Personally, I'd love just a little short story about her early life, time as a slave, and how she came to truly embrace the fire.
I'm genuinely more intrigued in the history of the East than anything else going on in the story.
@@lukekennedy8588 same, honestly Westeros feels a lot more boring than Essos
If Asshai is "by the Shadow" and guards the straits which are the only known sea route through it, "Shadowchaser" could be an epithet for a person who attempted to navigate those straits and find what lay beyond; Eldric could have been the first person to discover that route to Westeros. It mirrors "Sun Chaser", the name of the ship Elissa Farman attempted to sail west in.
Curiously these are the reverse of those directions' poetic associations in our world: as the sun rises in the east and sets in the west, we associate east with the sun and west with the dusk.
When I heard "Shadowchaser" I associated it with Lightbringer, as light chases away the shadow.
I always assumed the Amethyst Empress had several sets of children: some became the Valyrians, some became the Others (who are described as quite beautiful in the books), and then maybe some of the Westerosi houses who have vaguely Valyrian traits
What if the others are descents from the bloodstone emperor????
I thought the others were demons brought down by the bloodstone emperor? Minions of the eldritch horror the bloodstone emperor brought back
Lmao Jon having the Blood of every deeply important house is crazy he on some Ichigo shit fr
What if the earth is round and Asshai is just west of Westeros, and the freezing waste near the fire forts is the same as beyond the wall? GRRM has already confirmed that Westeros is a sphere.
Yes, but Westeros to Asshai would only be halfway round at best - but it does seem like Elissa Farman sailed West from Westeros and got to Asshai, so it should be possible
A thought I had was that- assuming the Long Night was like our own ice age- there might've been a land bridge across frozen water between Asshai and Westeros.
If the Land of Always Winter is the North Pole, maybe the Others froze the waters between the two continents south of them to invade both, and the War for the Dawn had Azor Ahai and his soldiers crossing the bridge as well.
This might seem completely dumb
But what if it’s a fairly small sphere
And there aren’t any other land masses?
Idk maybe that doesn’t work
It is round. The Sea Snake sailed to Asshai and in the port he found a ship from Westeros that sailed west and ended up there.
Wow such a great catch about children born from a Dayne/Hightower and Targaryen match still having their Valyrian looks! I never pieced that together.
Even Jocelyn Baratheon who was born to a Valyrian woman and who had children with a Targaryen still had dark haired children.
Add to that the fact that Daynes and Hightowers presumable retain their valyrian looks after thousands of years without inbreeding and you get some seriously powerful Baratheon-genes. Some sort of magic there as well? Considering how they and the Starks (another famously dark-haired house) are known for having members possess great strength and rage - maybe some dark secret in the past of their bloodlines.
The Starks and the Baratheons (Durrandon) both have Firstmen origins and have very little mix with the Andals. Firstmen were known to be strong and darkhaired...
@@rai2423 the seed is strong after all
To me, the simplest and most logical reason for a Stark to use Dawn is that a unnamed Dayne was amongst the companion of the Stark Last hero (and probably died).
Like, of course you would want to have a magical sword user to go to save the world with a man used to live in the cold and probably able to control some wild animal like a direwolf. (Plus it screams for epic fanart ^^ )
I actually tried to calculate the amount of Dayne blood Jon and Dany had and my calculations came up with 25% for Dany (assuming that due to the incest practices of her house, her genetics are the same as her parents and grandparents), and 12.5% for Jon.
maybe N+A would make jon have more, but it's a very difficult theory to be real
The Starry Sept in Oldtown with walls of Black marble - surely repurposed from a Church of Starry Wisdom building - right?
Unquestionably
Jon has Stark, Dayne, and Targaryen blood, huh?
The Dragon has three heads.
wait from where did dayne blood come from
@@vherox3826 Dyanna Dayne married king Maekar. These are Aegon V’s (from “Dunk and Egg”) parents so it got passed down from there.
He also has a little Martell, Arryn, and Blackwood blood too, from other women who married into the Targs.
Regarding the last portion, I think it's makes a lot of sense for Dawn to be Lightbringer. I mean, if you need to put it away for safekeeping in the event of another long night, way the fuck down in Dorne is actually a pretty logical place to put it in case of an early collapse of the North.
Also, could it be possible that the original Dayne is actually a son or daughter of the Great Empire of the Dawn and the First Men (Stark), who took the blade south for safekeeping after the long night? That might be why they can have both dragonrider (pale/blond hair, violet eyes) and stark (dark hair, stern eyes) features. Thus, in a parallel Jon also being of the same heritage will wield Dawn and repel the long night again? But thats probably too much tin foil.
No you’re thinking exactly the right way
Plus, House Dayne married into House Targaryen right before three generations of incest and then Jon and Dany. They are part Dayne
Ned+Ashara=Jon would make way more sense that R+L=J in that case
This sort of detail just makes me hate the show even more :( so much missed, so much could have been used. I need to read the books again.
In fairness, even if the show hadn't ended up as it did, a lot of this stuff simply wouldn't have made it anyways. There's always things that just don't make it when adapting a work from one medium to another.
most information about the great empire of the dawn come from The World of Ice and Fire.
And Game of Thrones is not based o The World of Ice and Fire, so this shouldn't be in the show.
the show turned dogshit when they began writing Stannis out. It was so bad that it even put me off the books.
@@dionysus1917 the show started to turn with dorne, you could tell then they was shit writers, whats putting me off the books is knowing martin does not care about them and is too busy building a tolkienesk world to finish the damn books.
@ShalakumX Simba I can because they did it horribly.
I find it odd that whenever you or Quinn bring up the LoTR parallels in ASoIF - specifically Narsil - you never namecheck the sword’s new moniker of Anduril, Flame of the West.
Yes yes yes
Narsil is cooler
@@chad871127 I always said the same thing and I stand by it.
Narsil means white fire technically
A few things on Tolkienisms with Lightbringer and Azor Ahai: Eöl the Dark Elf made TWO swords using iron from a meteorite - Anglachel (meaning: Iron of the Flaming Star) and Anguirel (Iron of the Eternal Star). Not much is known about the history of Anguirel after Maeglin - Eöl's son, stole it but a lot happens with Anglachel. It is said to harbor a great malice inside itself (both swords seem sentient) and due to this malice, Beleg cut an unconscious Turin while trying to free him which caused Turin to panic, grab Anglachel and kill his savior with it.
Turin would go on to have the sword reforged by humans as Gurthang (Death Iron). Most notably Turin used Gurthang to kill the First Dragon Glaurung (the name most likely means Golden Worm as he had no wings unlike some later dragons) and later himself after a certain revelation that he had unknowingly made his own sister his wife. The blade broke as Turin cast himself upon it and as far as we know, it's still buried with Turin. Gurthang is notably described as black, shining with pale fire, a trait which as far as I remember came from Anglachel and Anguirel should also share those properties as they are made from the exact same material.
It could be that instead of Dawn being the original sword Ice, they are sister swords made from the same material. Ice like Anguirel has an unknown fate, while we know exactly where Dawn is right now like Anglachel/Gurthang.
I was thinking the same thing, at least with respect to OG Ice and Dawn being twin swords (I was thinking of Ned's Ice being turned into Oathkeeper and Widow's Wail as a parallel, personally). Maybe OG Ice is what Jon dreams about searching for in the Winterfell crypts!
But isn’t Ice valaryian steel
Isn’t dawn different to them ?
@@Ghost-ql3hl I am referring to the original sword Ice. The Valyrian steel Ice sword in the books and show is named after another sword.
We have no idea what happened to the First Sword Ice which is why I compared it to Anguirel but we do know that unlike its namesake, it was not made of Valyrian steel.
@@Phantom_of_Black Ah gotcha
Anglachel was reforged by the Noldor of Nargothrond, not by humans
I forget the exact wording, but: to go west, you must go east. Pass the Sapphire Straights to the Lonely Light.
It has always bugged me why the oldest port city in Westros is as far as possible from civilization in Easos. If sailing east from Ashai lands you on the western shore of Westros, that would explain it. Sail east until you see the Lonely Light, aka, the Hightower lighthouse. Qaith gives Dany 10,000 year old directions from Ashai to Oldtown.
23:08 "We light the Way": Could it be possible that an Empire as great and powerful as the Great Empire of the Dawn also had contact with/discovered a continet west of Westeros? Thus making Oldtown the last trading post before said continent, "lighting the way" to this land.
I think George has left out a lot of details of what it means to go West of Westeros for exactly this reason. Were just not meant to see it yet but can figure it out if we try.
Corlys Velaryon claimed to have seen Elissa Farman's ship Sunchaser in Asshai, implying that sailing west from Westeros would get you to Asshai eventually. A continent between the two is possible, but unnecessary, and unattested in the text. So the Hightowers and Daynes may have come to Westeros from across the Sunset Sea, rather than the possibly longer route from the east. These ancient people were known to be seafarers.
@@alexandergangaware429 I came here wanting to state just that, the route to Westeros could be Eastwards from Asshai (how did it go? "To go west you must turn east"??)
@@MaegnasMw Now, consider this: When Aeron sees Euron's Valyrian Steel armor in The Forsaken TWOW chapter, he thinks that it is proof that Euron has visited the Valyrian peninsula. I would also note that it is described as scale armor. In The Sworn Sword, Rhoane Webber's scale armor fits her "like a glove," which is almost like a second skin.
BUT: The Worldbook tells us that, among the ancient Ironborn, there existed a hero called Balon Blackskin, of whom is said "No weapon made of man could harm him... swords glanced off and left no mark, and axes shattered against his skin."
SO: Scale armor is like a second skin, and Valyrian steel is dark-colored and incredibly hard, and Balon Blackskin had skin that was impervious to normal weapons.
Euron's armor is not from Valyria. It has been sitting around in the Iron Islands for millenia, and probably comes from the Great Empire of the Dawn. If I had to guess, he obtained the armor at the same time that he acquired Baelor Blacktyde's sable cloak. But that's just headcannon, admittedly.
@@alexandergangaware429 haven't read the books yet (waiting for George to NOT finish them! :P) so thanks for the info.
The Hightower’s must have dragonlord blood or they would not have been confident about the Alicent marriage producing dragon rider children.
i mean this is not makes sense Rhaenyra had 3 children with Harwin Strong but her childrens are still dragonriders
So happy you brought up some king arthur stuff. Even just a little. Everytime I get into High Tower lore I always wonder if they have some kind of ancient dispute with House Dayne. Something in Dark Star's comment that Daynes have been killing Oakhearts for thousands of years made me look up the lore that house Dayne has warred with the reach for probably thousands of years and Samwell Dayne once burned Old Town. The Daynes look like Dragon Lords, and house Hightower is suspected of killing dragons(possibly twice). There just seems to be something there.
Yes makes me think a lot more about how Euron is probably going to take down the Hightower
but why killing dragons? many people forget that the so called dragonslayers are in truth thieves. the legend of the wealth of a dragon hoard are the proof of it. volcanos are the most valuable sources for gold and gemstones. foremost the great gemstones like diamonds, rubies, sapphires, emeralds, amethysts and some more.
I think LML’s content is so compelling to me because after I’ve heard his exposition I can’t remember what I thought about these unresolved questions before i found his channel. It’s like he is spelling out clearly the thematic connections and textual clues that I had internalized all along.
That's because he uses good references and evidence properly in the text by paying close attention to detail. The brain picks up on that when you focus on something carefully. That's how you write a good essay on a piece of fiction or philosophy.
..Or history
I always wondered why Grr Martin put two kinds of special swords in his books, but it would make sense if “dragon steel” weapons were made from meteoric metal, that required dragons and magic to create, and then since meteor metal is scarce they used the same techniques on iron to create what we know as Valyrian steel.
Leo Tyrell also has ash hair, whereas other Tyrells tend to have brown hair- this is actually pointed out as a distinguishing feature. We don't know who his mother is, but as his father is commander of the Old Town city watch it's a fair bet that she's a Hightower, and if this is the case (although it may be a stretch) that's another little hint that the Hightowers have "dragon lord" features.
As an aside, the artwork at 18:15 is so cool.
I think there could be something about Daenerys wielding Dawn because she dreams at least twice (from what I recall) about herself in armour in a battlefield which suggests some kind of fighting. Maybe she'll wield it but in a sort of magical way, not actually fight with it. I don't know but all this is super interesting, thanks for your great work!
1) Ashara Dayne, who's brother is Arthur, has a name with practically the same as Morgana. Ashera, 'she who treads on water', whilst Morgana means, 'circling sea', or, 'bright sea weller'. If that doesn't describe Ashara, and connect the sea with House Dayne, then what does? They might be an off-shoot of House Hightower, founded by Uthor/Usher, forefather/father of Arthur and Morgana/Ashara
2) Another weird literary connection between House Stark, the adversaries of Ice Others, and the Dawn Empire is Topaz. The Topaz Emperor was the grandsire of the Amethyst and Bloodstone Emperors, whilst Topaz is a wizard/sorceror/witch character from Marvel Comics published in the 70s (the same decade that Marvel Comics had Conan the Barbarian meet Elric of Melnibone). Marvel's Topaz once had her power used to raise an army of zombies, like Ice Others and wights, and she used her own empathetic powers to bond with and control the Marvel character, Werewolf by Night, like warging with wolves in North Westeros. Also, Topaz was found in an Indian camp by another sorceror, implying a Vedic influence like Dany Stormborn. So does House Stark have some ancestry thanks to the Topaz Emperor? Did a daughter of the Topaz Emperor fly north to marry a Stark King? Is the first Night King descend from that Stark-Topaz lineage? Did she bring the original Dawn as a wedding gift to her Stark husband? Did Houses Stark and Dayne originate from the same Stark-Topaz lineage? Find out in, 'A Winds of Winter'. Someday.
I think "Bran the Builder" is just a code for: Built by people from The Great Empire of the Dawn. The base of the Hightower, Storms End, The Wall and The first keep of Winterfell all built with different and more advanced techniques and forgotten magic.
Legends become garbled over such long periods, so this seems totally plausible to me.
Bran the Builder is based an old Georgian (Europe) king. He foresaw most of the impressive architecture in his country after winning a war and was a famous Christian king. Bran the builder probably worked with ancient Daynes and build the wall with them. He's the most important Stark King, it wouldn't make sense that he in some way wasn't real.
So you think one man built Storms End, The Hightower, Winterfell and The Wall?
I watched The Disputed Land's video about the Mazemakers of Lorath, how it connects to Battle Isle, the Fisher Queens of the Silver Sea, Kingdom of Sarnor, The Great Empire of the Dawn, and the Isle of Leng, and my mind was friggin BLOWN!!! It makes so much sense in the context of this theory too
yeah that's a great channel and theory obviously. Amanda goes great work. I love how much George gave us ancient history types to sink our teeth into
Your interpretation of this world and it's history is almost as great as the imagination behind the world itself. Impressive doesn't cover it. It's like calling the sun hot.
It actually makes a lot of sense for there to have been multiple flaming swords known, as a series created to defeat the Others during the Long Night, as "Lightbringer" blades. And multiple warriors entrusted to weild these "high tech" blades.
It would also make since if the Iron Islands were including in the GEotD overseas outpost, considering the ominous kraken throne made of the same or similar stone as all the other dragonlord stuff. Possibly another thing could be Eurons “Valyrian” armor, my thinking is that it was always a relic pertaining to the Iron Islands, just like the Daynes and Dawn, it was said that an Ironborn hero had some sort of special “skin” that was essentially impervious to all attacks. It would make sense if this “skin” was the armor, and it was merely a relic of the same people that built the kraken throne, and could’ve have possibly left long before the Ironborn got there, and therefore are the so called “Deep Ones”.
Oh hey that’s a good theory. I love it
LML it’s great that you recognize all other content creators ideas/theories, when they help prove yours. Good job as always
Hot damn..."Uthor" of the Hightower & the continent of "Ulthos"!
If Asshai was the capital of the Great Empire of the Dawn it would totally make sense that they had also conquered the lands directly across the Saffron Straights from Asshai. What real world empire has ever built their capital in a location without exploring the area around it?
God-On-Earth(Earendil) ascends to the stars. His son the Pearl Emperor(Elros) and his heirs rule the Great Empire of the Dawn (Nmenor) until the Amethyst Empress (Tar-Muriel) is usurped by the Bloodstone Emperor (Ar-Pharazon), who practiced dark arts and eventually brought about the Long Night (Fall of Numenor). More Tolkien parallels!
Probably have the best thumbnails in the biz, have no idea why it took so long to come across you after watching AltX for so long.
Thank you!
Another piece of this that seems to be missed, is that the location of oldtown is on the western side of westeros on the sea. Meaning that if the dawn civilization settled, they would have to cross all of essos, go past and around dorne, and then eventually found oldtown. You would assume more examples of their civilization would occur along that way.. but they arent. You’d assume as well that a giant lighthouse to light the way (hightower having the great lighthouse of Alexandria vibes), why would a lighthouse be located in a place that is obstructed by the landmass of westeros from those traveling from essos?
The dawn civilization however is located on the far east of essos. If oldtown was inhabited by seafarers based from asshai, then it reasons that they may have traveled east, not west, to arrive at westeros. A giant beacon on the lower west coast of westeros being the logical location for that. If they traveled the globe in the “off map” direction, they would most likely arrive there.
I agree it’s a very viable possibility!
There is another connection to Tolkien's work, particularly to _The Silmarillion_. There is a literal _Lucifer_ in this story, a bright morningstar destined who brings back the dawn. And this role is fulfilled by two people, husband and wife: Ëarendil and Elwing riding on the holy ship Vingilot. As Jon and Danny, they carry blood from the great lineages of Men and Elves (the three houses of the Edain and the three tribes of the Eldar). They manage to bring down a dragon, the greatest amongst all: Ancalagon the Great, so monstrous he drove back the combined forces of Men, Elves, Dwarves and Maiar (angels) and whose wings obscured the sunlight (sounds similar to the Long Night to me). And to top it all, they fathered the twins Elrond and Elros,the latter of whom was the First King of Númenor and the forefather of Aragorn.
Yeah I was thrilled to find that George got the idea to use all this Morningstar mythology as he did from Tolkien
Only Daenarys and Jon can bring the dawn….
Arya: hold my face
Hmm, shadow chaser, shadow chaser. Meteors have tails, during the day the tail would be smoke, or shadow. If a meteor hits the ground, causing a fire, there would also be smoke, and if the atmosphere near the Hightower is foggy then the smoke mixed with fog would equal shadows. A shadow chaser would have to enter these shadows to find the debris to then forge a sword from it.
The biggest regret is that we ll probably never see the entire map and most intriguing stories about far off places will be incomplete
It's also the best thing too, I wouldn't want the mistery to end
I love The Flamenco music and the intro sound.
In old Brethonic (ancient Welsh) Utha Pendragon translates as " Terrible Head Dragon" you were very, very close
Will watch later in the week but one question that I was thinking about regarding Magic Swords in ASOIAF requiring Blood Sacrifices; what if it wasn't this way? What if the "blood sacrifices" that a lot of magic in ASOIAF requires is a result of the Bloodstone Emperor's machinations & experiments that resulted in the Long Night/Reaction to the Long Night that caused the magic of the world to require Blood magic? I.e. Dawn a possible pre-Long-Night artifact created by the GEoTD was magically created but was a pre-Bloodstone Emperor sword?
I'd love for that to be true - magic swords without icky blood magic - and I've proposed it before. It might be a match for the pale fire swords of the Gemstone Emperors in Dany's vision
@@DavidLightbringer Yeah, I mean I think the events of the long night and likely the Bloodstone Emperor's experiments/meddling transformed magic in the world, perhaps altering the "magicstream" or whatever one would call how magic works in ASOIAF.
I mean the pre-Long Night of the world seemed to be something else entirely.
@@Dangerman-zg3ui The thought arises that maybe this is connected with the irregular seasons too.
Also The bleeding sea & bloodstone emporer have any significance said he practiced necromancy, torture and all that crazy shit is mentioned being legal in Asshai.
Dude... this is the exact kind of material that I keep coming back for. I love this so much.
Also the first level of Minas Tirith is made of black fused stone like the Orthanc, while the rest is white. Almost like the High Tower. Also Minas Tirith means Tower of Guard and it was called Minas Anor, Tower of the Sun before...
Oh okay, very interesting!
@@DavidLightbringer Actually funny that one of the illustrations that show the lowest wall of Minas Tirith correctly was done by Ted Nasmith. The guy that did the Hightower illustration in you video:)
Oh god, your suggestion of house dayne 's words is now my headcanon
"We have Lightbringer. Bitch" is the only way now
Thank you for all this lore
The first Hightower could be one of the first men to flee the Bloodstone emperor. Seeing the evil the emperor could do with dragons, he slayed the ones at Oldtown, in a battle with ancient dragonriders stationed at Battle Isle.
Thanks David; I teach mythology to middle college students in the San Francisco Bay area, and I have been listening to your channel for the last two months, in preparation for fire and blood, and I am thoroughly enjoying your analysis, your predictions, your goofy charm, and you’re absolutely wonderful insight into mythology. Keep doing what you’re doing, you are a wonderful intelligent instructor.
Since it seems obvious that the world is a globe it seems to follow rather easily that the Saffron Straights must connect to the Sunset Sea and that's how the Empire of the Dawn made it to Westeros.
I'm changing my entire digital persona to "Fly Alaric".
It’s a good one... we did a whole Fly Alaric liveatream when Fire and Blood came out
I love this! I never thought of this and the ending about jon and dany gave me so much goosebumps. Im getting more and more excited for the books now.
Also, what about the gargoyle statues at Winterfell? I had a theory that they're dragon statues. Bran dreams of them having brazier hot red eyes. Sound more like a dragon than a lion.
If the empite of the dawn also built the wall, it could also be partly built from black fused stone and just extended by ice. That would help make the wall more realistic, since ordinary ice piled up that high would collapse under its own weight.
*VERY* well done video! Looking forward to more, as always.
Hell yes. Thank you for the continued content!
One of the best Videos in the series so far! It just keeps getting better
Another great deep dive into the the complexities of ASOIAF! Fascinating
I love your videos so very much. All the disparate pieces of the puzzle assembled with care, humor, and beautiful pictures. They are like picture storybooks, with the little accompanying records that I used to have as a child back in ancient times. I am engrossed. Thank you many times for sharing your gifts.
Yes!!!!! Much love LmL I can't wait to watch when I'm off work.
The artwork and your editing are both awesome!!!! Great vid as usual🌮🌮🌮
Oh a new LML video? What a nice surprise this morning. Can't wait to give this an in depth watch tonight. Love the content man.
Loved this! Thanks LML! You made my day! Welcome back to the West Coast!
You deserve way more subs for the amount of work and the quality of you videos!!!
Love you man, appreciate the work you do so much ! You bring up the quality with each video ! Stopped studying for this one 😁
Every time I watch these videos I love them even more! Thanks for sharing these with us ❤️
Love this! Missin your compendium day! Enjoy all your content!
always grateful to hear your voice, giving me more to think about in the world of ASOIAF. thank you!🥰
So so so good! My eyebrows flew up several times.
wow! I love this video, all the references! This make sense. Thank you for your hard work!
You have really taken your content to the next level as of late, some seriously good work dude.
Wow this is the exact topic i was looking into not even an hour ago, you really are supernatural!
You give me light, good sir. Thank you.
Intriguing as always. I'm grateful for the work you put in to provide evidence, clues and background info. The artwork you feature to tie it all together is supreme. Quips and puns appreciated as well! 🤪
This keeps popping back up in my feed. So that's nice.
The format of this video was impeccable!
I love all your videos/theories but sometimes I have no time to watch the longer videos and when I do is just at the end of the day and I end up falling asleep(not for your video per se but because I'm tired). This time was not the case. This time was magnificent!
excellent video brother! Looking forward to more!
That was one of the best asoiaf theory/analysis videos I've ever listened to. Great work!
Really appreciate the quality content and theories during this quarantine. You and Quinn light the passion of ASOIF again. Thank you 😊
Mad respect for making these videos. Literally full documentary length and very thorough and well organized. Hats off to you sir 🎩
I'm 2yrs late...but Dude, you just blew my effing mind!🤯
Greatly appreciate the time and effort you put in. Now imma roll a fat doobie and watch the "Ice is Dawn" videos!
Again well done! 🎯💯💪👏👏👏
Ah yeah those are good with this one :)
Mind blown!! Great content
I really love the idea that the Last Hero had to kill a Dayne to get Ice, er Dawn. People seem to have a habit of missing the bigger picture and it makes sense that the ancient Daynes might have been the same way.
Well done! I love your work! Stay safe!
Great work LML!
No mention of Dorne/Dawn being homonyms and the name possibly coming from a Empire of the Dawn colony that used to be there?
This was a masterpiece and without a doubt my favorite video ever made
Hey, I just heard guitar music in the background for the first time in your stream. It's really good, I love solo guitar music.
Yay, another Empire vid! Love this lore
Great content as usual!
I was looking forward to this!!!
Your content really invigorated my thirst for knowledge for the ancient stories of the world of ASOIAF. Wow, the Dayne/Dunedain theory blew me away.