PSA: WATCH THE ENTIRE VIDEO (at least up to 12 minutes) BEFORE YOU SAY SOMETHING STUPID TOWARDS ME in a derogatory manner. I'm 1000% open for discussions. I love that stuff, but please be respectful to me or anyone else in the comment section. It's incredibly easy to join in on the discussion, but at least be aware of what you're trying to argue/debate about. I'm going back to playing Zenless now. See y'all later tonight. 💽www.twitch.tv/iyokuu
its TRASH.. u have unli skills, dodges, chain combos, s so much that the mobs DO NOT GET the CHANCE to attack.. so its basically SUPER EASY MODE(for brainless/skill less players).. repeat that to INFINITY and you have ur game lols.. lets not start with the "roguelike" mode lols.. the most boring and freaking "main" mode of the game.. u have basically a black screen with boxes, you cant even zoom out to plan your "strategy" on where to go.. add the fact that they "NERF" a bunch of characters in the game, waifu nicole anyone? cat girl ultimate? lols.. NO even if this is a 16yr+ rating game, you will still get CENSORSHIP.. this game is DEAD BEFORE IT EVEN RELEASES..
The thing I like about genshin is that they have a lot of surprise additions to the game that they dont include in the marketing and if you are a true genshin player youd know exactly who are those really playing the game, and those who just watch the news and make uninformed opinions like this xD. But I dont blame you though. Having wrong opinions because of insufficient information is TOTALLY fine dude. xD Also I am a HSR player too, but it doesnt really have as much content as genshin has so I mostly play genshin, and HSR just 3 trimes a week. (Yes, I dont care about daily chores). To be honest with your opinion with ZZZ, I agree. The only way I think hoyoverse could muster up more players in ZZZ is to give PvP content. Since the mechanics in ZZZ is a lot more omplex than HSR, and could probably make a good gamplay loop. But its just hopes. In all honestly a proper PvP in HSR is IMPOSSIBLE. Period
@@mwx5314 Blud here thinking first few chapters of the game have the most difficult enemies. It's like saying fighting Lawachurls and Dvalin is the best enemies Genshin can offer
I think its a huge plus that zenless doesnt have an open world like genshin so more dev time and resources can go into building onto the actual combat (like star rail).
It's the kind of game where you just load it up every day and beat some stuff up, and honestly I don't mind that particular genre. Also actually makes it more phone-appropriate.
Yeah, and it's the type of gameplay flow I'm rather partial to. Sometimes I want the gameplay loop without wasting time exploring. If I want exploration, I turn to another game.
The fact that they can use the same engine, design and art teams, etc. to produce wildly different games that appeal to different demographics is brilliant.
@@Iyoverse title click bait just because you loves playing honkai star rail doesn't mean everyone will share your love for same game. This guys insulting all f2p genshin impact player and honkai star rail player. Getting measly 10k views getting on his head
@@kisansantosh9127 That's... what he said. He never insulted the f2p aspect of hsr or genshin, or I never thought that's what he meant, as a f2p on both games. He said multiple time that the fact that everyone doesn't share the same love for the same game means that there should be no reason to make zenless like them. Point being idk where you find it insulting and he got me hyped up even more. I'm also going to f2p zenless
All you’ve said/shown, makes me even more exited to play the game. Dodge/parry mechanincs are usually soo fun, along with learning the enemies moveset, to finally overcome the challenge. Sadly i didnt get to play this cbt, but ill definetly try this game at launch.
Definitely playing ZZZ now lol I think HSR took my interest away more than Genshin _because_ of the Turn Based system as well as there placing more importance on how you build your characters. I still play both but I play HSR way more. ZZZ looks like alot of fun and seems way more up my alley, especially off my recent roguelike phase lol
I've noticed they've also been extending events for longer periods of times for the most part between the two games also. As if they expect people to pull away from a time and maybe come back later rather than being fully attached for every day login. Hell, even Genshin updated the returner page and event for when people don't log in for a while. Seems like they're fully on board to have people choose whatever style game suits them most. For me, I like exploration games, turn based games, and roguelike action combat. So I'm probably going to put down several of the games for long stretches before returning. And it benefits the same PRIVATE company either which way, who isn't beholden to shareholders. Which helps add quality to all their games in turn. Hoyoverse going crazy
Noice. In my case, it is the exact opposite: just because of the turn based, I'm probably never going to play hsr, pretty sad as the story and characters seem interesting
Honestly, ZZZ ticks all of the boxes for me -Stage-based combat like in Honkai Impact 3rd -Giant bosses like Elden Ring -Pop-jazz-modern fantasy-esque style like Persona 5 -Diverse set of characters and factions like Arknights This might be up my alley, all that's left is the main course - the story (And maybe how fair they are with the gacha currency, hopefully it's more than Genshin or HSR)
since the announcement trailer I knew ZZZ wasn't for me, I heavily prefer playing turn-based games (which is what got me interested in HSR, been playing since launch). I'll just be watching any updates the game gets as a mere observer. I'm happy for the people that have been waiting for a game like ZZZ: whether it be the combat, the story, the characters, etc. I wish you all the best
Its actually Hoyos point, they want to cather to so many different audiences to be everywhere. Easier story driven for genshin, autoplay roundbased for HSR and now rogue light and soulslike for ZZZ. At this point i wouldnt wonder if hoyo brings out some sport or beat em up game in the future. The Quality of all 3 games are peak be it graphics sounds or story every game so far is within the top if not the top.
Exactly, hoyo doesn't want to compete with themselves by making the same type of game over and over again. They're clearly trying to appeal to slightly different types of audience with each new game.
@@maneuverxz3290 real and true, genshin, hsr, hi3rd (and this one probably) are super easy, and they're meant to be that way. The reason people hate on genshin is because they don't have a place where you can really test your roster's abilities with harder content despite the spiral abyss getting harder and harder over time
@@maneuverxz3290 Exactly what I was thinking. Making a video called "ZZZ is not for you... and that's OK" and then shitting on Genshin because it's... well, not for you is pretty silly.
Right? Instead of creating Genshin 2nd, which would attract the same audience, why don't they develop a different game to appeal to a different audience? I play both Genshin and HSR because I accidentally love both genres. However, because of that, HYV didn't really make more money from me, as I only have limited budget for game. Getting a new audience is probably better from their perspective.
as someone who clears the abyss with ease , going and playing star rail was so fun like i actually struggled to beat moc for a bit and just recently beat disaster lvl 5 after like 10 attempts. i just wish genshin had something that wasnt an event for 14 days that lets you really test all of your characters builds like star rail does.
@@xuryx01 They haven’t announced anything concrete yet, but knowing how the release schedule for Star Rail and Genshin went, there is probably going to be a final closed beta in 6-7 months then the game will probably come out 3 months after that. So summer 2024 is my best guess. Though they are releasing character trailers and demos on the ZZZ RUclips channel almost weekly at this points, so it could be sooner.
@@JesseEubankswhen math ain’t mathing xD summer 2024 is way too early for them to do another beta test. We would be lucky if it released before September, late 2024 or early 2025 would be my best guess. Hoyoverse likes to space up their games and hype the new one up when the hype for the predecessor starts to die down. I think it will be a while before we actually get to play it
@@xiaoandyoimiyasimp3193 I’m not just saying any random bullshit 🤦♂️. Genshin CBT2 (March 18, 2020) to final beta (July 2, 2020) took ~3 months. Genshin final beta to release (September 28, 2020) took ~3 months. Star Rail CBT2 (May 25, 2022) to final beta (February 10, 2023) took ~8 months. Final beta to release took ~2 months. This is also not accounting for the fact that Hoyoverse got a license to publish ZZZ in China last month, which means they have to release the game within a year or they are put back on a long waitlist. So 2024 for ZZZ is basically confirmed unless something bad happens. Going by their beta schedule, I think the most realistic release frame is Q3 2024 (July, August, or September), They might even try to release it even earlier if they want it to be before Genshin 5.0
@@JesseEubanks I didn'tn say you were, why so aggrassive? I only said that because by your estimation of final beta test being 6-7 months from now and the release being 3 months after that makes it 9-10 months from now, which makes the release date somewhere in September
People throwing around the term "souls like" is starting to become torture. There's elements like the score counter floating to the left that draw this game closer to stylish action games (i like calling them spectacles; think Bayonetta, Metal Gear Rising, Devil May Cry or even Ultrakill), but my main request for you and people like you is to try saying "souls-like" without saying "souls-like". And if you have to say it, maybe don't do so more than once. No, playing a game with Genshin's gameplay shouldn't be deragatory. In another place you may even see these types be called "cozy games". Just in case, though, before you try calling them that on video, make sure you ask other people if they would call it that. If not, at least make sure you can explain why you'd call it so.
A couple of corrections: Hoyoverse never stated that they wouldn't add endgame content to Genshin, only that they don't want to add another Spiral Abyss. Secondly, the option to make bosses easier, as far as I'm aware, applies only to the Archon and story quests, not the grind.
@@Hy-BridAbroadno iyo wasn't because they said if they added a second spiral abyss it would give players excessive anxiety implying they wont add ANY endgame it ain't happening stop coping
Great video. I've heard stories from friends that some ppl treat Genshin like a collectible game. One friend said his cousin didn't even leave Mondstat and pays money just to collect the characters and not even build them. It was crazy to me to hear this but I believe it is more common than not but probably most players get to 1or 2 zones beyond Mondstat and don't bother with others after Mondstat. Genshin really does have a younger casual Minecraft-like Roblox loving audience I firmly believe too.
Then they just collect it and never connected with the characters. Imagine getting for a zaddy (Neuv) without realizing how torturous his life being the judge and being a second to a fraud, but ofc you wouldn't know that because you're busy messing with the dragon in Mondstadt Collecting game is just for people who don't bother for the very wide lore it offers
The idea of reduced difficulty is only present in the story mode when you are fighting the boss for the first time. If you have brought a team that is not suited to deal with the given boss, it is not a bad idea to reduce its difficulty. Even Honkai Impact 3rd, which is notorious for the difficulty of its endgame content, has this feature where when going into a story boss, you can choose between easy and hard difficulty.
The problem with HSR's endgame is it comes at the cost of the Story Progression. You'd think that HoYo will be faster now that they've been doing this with Genshin now and they're more efficient, but no, HSR's story is STOPPED DEAD in it's tracks. Each game's bugget isn't infinite, so they have to choose their priorities correctly, and I'm glad Genshin chose to progress the Archon Quest more and also build up the open-world more.
I've interested in this because it's basically rogue-like HI3 (the combat is almost lifted straight from it with some spins of its own). As a variety player that likes intergrated worlds, I'm probably HoYo's exact target audience cause I end up liking all they games they've made since HI3 (haven't tried anything before that). The "Persona Reaper" idea would be cool to add in. Let It Die (also rouge-like/lite game) as well where if ou spend way too much time on a floor these special agent like guys would come to kill you.
My only complaint for Star Rail is that relic drops are becoming infuriating so more resin might help ease the continous grind. Also I wish I could just Auto SU (and I mean auto move through the maps) Also Zenless Zone Zero sounds sick and I'm so down to play it!
Completely agree on the auto SU! Right now I'm only really doing SU for the rewards, but it's pretty tedious to have to walk through it and do the events and such.
The "harder" content is just healthier enemies, so you just have to clutch up with either healers that heal the whole team and buff your allies/debuff the enemy, or hypercarries that ignore enemy turns altogether.
@@remainer Genshin's artifact farming feels better because you can off-set one piece; you can't do that in HSR. You can have an amazing 4liner but if it is in the wrong set it is a dead relic.
ngl i also feel like some ppl formed opinons WAY too early for ZZZ. Good input tho dude i agree with a lot of what you're sayin. from what ive seen, they are untapping more and more of potential im seeing for the game. lookin forward to more coverage 👍
Thank you! Feels like we see this "what about me" mentality all over, not just in games. Sometimes stuff isn't for you and that's OKAY. Thank you for speaking up on this. 🤘🍄👍
yea, hard the please both side, the non skilled player that want easy and not hard gameplay vs skilled player that wants hard challenge. hoyo lean the easy because they know who gives or spend money the most. they have the data. genshin will not stay 3 years going strong if they dont know what they are doing.
It seems like someone its holding a grudge against genshin lol, i do agree with the part where players should not demand it to be easy, but at the same time you also not the one to decide whos the game for, or what is the target audience just because you saw some people who agrees with you on twitter, youre the one demanding all these things to make the game perfect for u, so why the rest of them cant? I think the ZZZ looks awesome and i will play it as it is
This is where we would disagree on the take. I'm not demanding the game be perfect for me. The game, as of right now, is 90% exactly what I want. The criticism I provided towards the end of the video (TV mode and a request for a co-op) are merely requests to improve the experience of all players, but especially those like myself. That's why I mentioned in the beginning of the video that it's gonna sound hypocritical, but it's not really. It'd be me demanding something if the game was nothing like it is now and I begged to the heavens for it to be different. I also don't have a grudge against Genshin. haha I just stopped playing it as heavily because I was building/spending for nothing.
What is strange is that Genshin Impact has all these progression systems like artifacts, talents, and weapons but it is designed so that you do not ever need to interact with any of these progression systems. In fact the more you interact with the progression system the worse the game gets. It is as if two completely different development studios designed the combat and progression and a different one designed the story and world. Then they smashed them together into this dysfunctional mess. It does however make it easy to just pick up the game whenever and immediately be able to smash anything and everything. There is no need to ever do dailies or spend resin. It is pointless unless you specifically want to do Spiral Abyss.
finally a really elaborate and coherent opinion that doesn't go to extremes, whether positive or negative just because you don't like something or because you really like a character and therefore that character's game can't be bad, I'm bored from seeing extremely polarized opinions and especially what you said at the beginning, this game is not for everyone and it is not exactly for the usual players of other games from hoyoverse. I think that what a beta of a game really needs is opinions like This, to help improve the product in the aspects that it does not do very well and to reaffirm what it does do well, and above all and most importantly someone who really understands what the game wants to offer and achieve, who understands its mechanics and who really understand the complexity it has despite the apparent simplicity that many believe the game has only based on first impressions and the early game, an excellent video
I always loved how HI3 feels like DMC but I think i saw parries in ZZZ and now im interested in trying it out. I hope they add aerial attacks so i can rainstorm somebody but that might be asking to much.
I like genshin combat mechanics and overworld more than HSR. However HSR has better endgame options which gives players more reason/motivation to keep pulling and building characters. That's the biggest gripe I have with GI .. I mean you can invest in lots of great characters but the only content you can really enjoy them is a 1-2 hr content every couple of weeks. Even the events are such a bunch of crap.. I mean why sweat it and build a cracked character when all you are gonna do is pop balloons , play hide and seek , play a stupid card game or engage in a bunch of meaningless convo which you can't even skip.
exactly, it's like the people who implemented the combat systems are not in communication to the people who are implementing the events, they're so disjointed, the events make no use of the existing combat systems.
This is kinda funny, I got into the latest beta knowing nothing about the game. My impression so far has been "hm, it's interesting but I *really* don't think it's for me". ... So basically, I agree with you, I've always thought it's kinda silly how often people demand something conforms to their interests, rather than just going out and finding something else that fits better.
Because finding something that interests them takes effort. At least for them. They just want more BL and GL bait content for their egregious headcanons.
Bro reminds me so much of gachasmack. Not being afraid to deal with the entitled fans that hoyoverse has been plagued with. Not being afraid to share his nuanced opinions about things. Not being afraid to even be wrong. This is why I subbed a long time ago because of nuanced discussions like this. Keep up the good work Iyo!
Disclaimer: I get this one might change as we get more gear and stronger units but…My biggest gripe with ZZZ is how spongy the enemies are, even the low tier mobs takes waaay too long to kill and dont get me started with bosses. I get it, they want to pad out the difficulty by making things longer to kill.. honestly, since we are comparing this to souls game.. those games focused more on understanding boss mechanics, avoiding attacks, and looking for attack opportunities rather than slapping in ‘more health’.. and I like that better. They should do that instead. Anyways, aside from that… I want this to be on consoles too, cause aint no way am i playing this on my mobile phone (I dont think my old laptop can play this)
This is normal for the gendra. How these games' combat work is that you buildup Decibels or Daze (or Combo if you will) by fighting the small enemies to then take down tougher ennemies with and Ult or a Switch. The small ennemies being meatsacks actually makes the game easier because you can just stack stack on them even more.
Genshin’s “hard” for me in the way that it’s so tedious even just tryna get through/to the main story 🥲 I started playing when it launched back during covid (when I had a lot more time on my hands lol) but stopped after a year or so. I want to experience the main story so bad, but I don’t want to actually play the game LOL I can appreciate HSR since the main story quests aren’t necessarily locked behind map exploration/puzzles for my pea sized brain 😌
Genshin being on easy mode is deliberate to attract casuals for sure. Its like a launching point for them. Plenty of my friends who never touched a gacha game got into Genshin and from there went off to HSR, AG, PGR etc. The addition of these new games are for the more dedicated players like HSR will instantly attract the Honkai crowd and the people who wanted more difficult content. I'm guessing ZZZ was made for the leftover other half of people who dont want to play turn based and want more combat focused games. Genshin has Abyss but aside from that, nothing to test the limits of our characters. I've been playing hoyo games since HI3 so i'm sort of treating ZZZ as a spiritual successor of sorts but I haven't really looked into the game that deeply. I am excited to try it out once it releases since I'm more of the action combat crowd and hopefully its more combat and less mini-games unlike genshin. I play HSR but without the Honkai name and characters I might have not tried it.
That actually makes sense! So instead of making Genshin harder, like some fans were asking for, they're making harder games for the fans to move over to. This let's them keep Genshin as a casual game but also gives challenge for the fans. This game doesn't seem like it's for me, since I'm more of a casual, but I hope you like it!
genshin, instead of attracting me to play more of their games or even other gacha games, it actually made me hate gachas even more and mihoyo games in general, i loveD genshin but it's not the game i expected it to be and they keep making decisions that doesn't fit what i wanted, so i stopped, HI3 isn't also my cup of tea and i've grown out of turn based combat so all 3 released mihoyo games are not appealing to me, so if anything, what mihoyo expects to happen doesn't always happen.
Genshin’s endgame has the potential to become incredibly punishing. Anyone who’s ever faced 2 consecrated beasts in spiral abyss will know. The problem is that in 99% of the cases, the character power scaling lets you just mow down enemies no problem. Neuvilette is the most recent example. Star Rail isn't really all that different. If you have all the limited banner destruction 5-stars, supported by well-invested supports like pela/tingyun/asta and very future proof sustains like fu xuan/luocha, you're essentially playing on easy mode. The only time I ever really saw a potential 'challenging' design boss was that silvermane captain who can counterattack meaning it can be a risk to blindly deal too much dps to the enemy side as it will all come back to you. But even that stopped being a problem once Fu Xuan entered the picture.
Looks good. But I don't think I could take another gacha game. I already quit genshin for HSR. I won't add this on the list. Again, looks really good though.
I got baited in by ZZZ because of the persona-like music and style Oh and finally can play as a male character with meat- but a bear- but then again I play kuma as a main in tekken so it all works out coop is definitely a big plus. And not just tack-on coop that genshin has but actual well supported coop modes and functions
In my opinion the worst thing in zzz is the stamina system. Of course I don't mind having stamina for farming, but in this game you spend stamina even to play the story missions.
@@HollowProject It's not as abusive in Honkai Impact tho, they give you a LOT of stamina all the time. I recently came back to HI3rd and played from the first mission to chapter 8 and I'm still not out of stamina 💀
@@miguiREC who said that they wouldn't give us stamina refills from time to time? As far as I know, there's already a free daily coffee drink or whatever which gives you quite a bit of stamina, on top of what you've already regenerated throughout the day. And the stamina cost of missions and other stuff is STC because beta. Even in HSR on release there wasn't 2400 energy overcap feature, so something like that could be added to ZZZ later on.
@@HollowProject There is the possibility that they give us more stamina in the full game. But if we don't talk about it during the beta there's the possibility that they don't fix it, that's what betas are for.
@@miguiREC Yeah, I agree, we should definitely talk about ZZZs flaws, but not in a way like hating them, but more like being concerned that if hoyo doesn't improve these certain aspects, it may drastically impact playerbase and their enjoyment from the game
I actually really like the TV system in the game. There's a lot of really unique commissions like the one about the Prophet that is 2 hours long and I loved it. In order for the TV stuff to stay interesting, they need to create new stuff or shorten the stuff that isn't as engaging or interesting. I do enjoy it though when it's done well which I would say is probably like 70% of the time.
I really dislike the constant calling everything "souls like" or "souls mechanic". A dodge does not make anything souls like, they did not invent it, and souls combat is really not that good, it's just the encounter design that makes those games fantastic. ZZZ is clearly more action game inspired like DMC. PGR / Honkai 3rd does it much better at the current stage anyway, which is odd, because you'd assume something newer from the team would be better than their previous work (Honkai Impact 3rd). If anything, it's more Bayonetta like, as it uses the same Witch Time dodge that Honkai Impact 3rd used.
honestly great take! i started playing genshin solely for the exploration and later the story quests, with the character building and combat being a nice side bonus because pretty numbers. when i saw HSR came out and thought it looked cool, but then i realized it was turn-based combat i knew it wasnt for me. frankly, ZZZ has a lot of stylized action and combat depth, reminding me of dmc which ive been craving more recently so when the full release of the game comes out, im definitely gonna grab it.
I really appreciate your honest, candid feedback and opinions. Long-time genshin fan (quit somewhat recently) who plays really to enjoy exploration and chill combat/story, and both ZZZ and HSR look great. It's amazing a single dev can make such unique titles. Not crazy about the fanbase, and while I personally don't mind the censorship (which I've also come to expect w Chinese titles), I also don't understand the complete rage over it. Wuthering Waves was recently "uncensored" (and players were ecstatic) - I prefer the old designs so much more, but it is what it is lol. I'm more focused on the game story/mechanics. Anyway new sub! Thanks for this.
The boss change for them being easier is only during the story version of the boss fight im 95% sure. When you farm the bosses you cannot lower their difficulty unless you go for less rewards. If anything, the bosses we're seeing in the abyss are more aggressive than ever instead of being impossible to hit dps checks.
I don't understand how you decide a game isn't for someone but it is for you if both you and the person also tried the game at surface level? There are bunch of other games with dodge and parry mechanics. Just because zzz have it doesn't mean it's going to be a difficult game. You can still have those mechanics and still end up being easy which is what most people afraid of in zzz. Imagine reaching interknot 30 playing for 20-30 hours and the game doesn't even have a single memorable boss fight that actually testing out your skill. How long are people going to wait for this "end game" to come? Interknot 100? And even if the game eventually gets hard, by that time people already quit because it's too long to reach that point and they assume the game is easy. Even in the second hsr beta, people have to retry their first fight against cocolia, come on
It’s all good. People did not react to Genshin Impact well in the beginning as well. But after update 1.6 I think, it gained traction exponentially, because players finally figured out that it’s a elemental reaction/character switch game. So I think so the same will happen to ZZZ. Once player realize that it’s a dodge/parry game, ZZZ will gain traction.
As f2p+, I think Genshin is much harder than Star Rail. I barely 36* Abyss and sometimes have to restart chambers, but need only 6 turns for MoC 10. Maybe it's because I played since day one in Star Rail but skipped around a year in Genshin since its release
From start to first full star clear I think HSR is easier too. Took me 2-3 months longer (without building only meta immediately) in Genshin than HSR. Thing is active combat has *many* tiny optimization points, like stamina management, uptime, enemy baiting, grouping, plus element usage in Genshin. My first 36 star took me 8 entire hours for the final 3 stars as I needed to optimize every little thing to earn me that final missing second. HSR being turnbased there's not much room for these optimizations. Once one understands the characters it's 1. can you survive, 2. does the correct skill usage provide enough dmg, 3. are you close enough to realistically hope for some good rng. That said, after playing a long time and having your characters pretty much fully built, either game is going to be trivial. Genshin let's me max star Abyss with many different teams rather effortlessly at this point. If I take a team specifically catered to the current enemies, it's a walk in the park. HSR is still slightly harder simply by me STILL not having full lvl 15 relics with the correct set boni on every character - plus not being max level on some either. But neither is tuned to provide significant challenge to a full set of fully built characters, even at C0/R0/E0/S0 levels.
For me I really like what I have seen. Saying that however, I really liked Withering Waves. The game play of WW with the parry system wow, the game felt so amazing when you finally got that piece of gameplay. The bosses are very challenging and you need to learn to play the game. Learning the game or should I say getting better and learning after I died....that right there is what is amazing for me. It is all about skill!
Just thank you man, the fact that everyone spitting on the game have not trying it yet is so sad. I got in the beta and playing it for hours and im having a blast. Ty for saying true words, droped a like and a sub
The option to make the boss easier is literally only in the story quest. In open world, you still have to drop world level. I feel having more options is a positive. Floor 12 in the abyss is not easy imho.
I was rocking with you for the video for the most part until you said the various players from other genres are looking at this game. I disagree with that part. I truly believe the only gamers who are looking at gacha games are gacha players. Gamers who are not in this community look at the community and they kind of laugh at it. To be honest, considering the name of the genre says it all. They don't really take this genre or the players in it seriously. I think the rest of what you said, or at least the overall message, which is not everything has to be for you, is a good message to have though.
I just wanna point out that Genshin is a game made for non-gamers. even If u r a gamer, u can still get satisfaction from the story, world exploration and team building. Genshin is just a perfect game for newbies.
I think that hoyo knows exactly who their target audience for zzz is: it’s honkai impact 3rd veterans. I watched a gameplay walkthrough of the current beta and the entire thing - from the stages to the very limited open world to the stage setting design to the ultimate evasion mechanics to the enemies - feels like what hi3 would’ve been from the start if hoyo had had the budget back then that they do know. And ofc as a veteran player who wasn’t too interested in zzz before this current beta, my interest was piqued when they released that trailer that had an enemy that was very. clearly. a honkai beast (pink and white), so obviously they plan on dropping more lore on the hoyoverse in this game (something I expected more of from hsr bc Welt is literally there but was sorely disappointed). I mean, New Eridu is _very_ reminiscent of Arc City, so who knows, maybe we’ll get cameos from Bronie, Cioara, and pop idol TeriTeri 👀 Edit: forgot to add that veteran players of hi3 are also used to extremely difficult combat content with a myriad of different mechanics that can’t all be bruteforced with the same team over and over again but instead requires having a plethora of teams, supports, knowing the mechanics of each boss, strategizing, and just having a lot of skill that’s learned through countless battle restarts. And basically 95% of the veterans I know (who are also competitive players) are paying customers. It’s the only way to stay afloat in the meta of hi3, but I’ve also noticed that we’re the demographic far more likely to consistently open our wallets for mihoyo’s other games and mihoyo obviously knows this.
Im really happy that this is going to be a character action game. I've played the shit out of games like DMC5, MGR:R and the Yakuza series and i love skill focused games. I think it works especially well with it being a gacha game since you'll probably win anything without having the most broken or meta stuff by pure skill but it shouldn't be easy, that's why I've enjoyed HSR so much, the party and character building elements add so much to it and pulling feels great because you are pulling to build a team and not only because the character is good
nah bruh 7:26 sold me, I love fromsoft games and having a cool characters to pull while also having an anime rogue like to play sounds amazing, I'm all in
Honestly everything I've heard has just made me think this game was made specifically for me. I love these sorts of action-oriented games, and I'm even into puzzles enough that I think I'll like the TV ideas, at least for a time. Personally I hope it gets challenging, but even if it doesn't... like you said, I don't have to sweat it if the game doesn't cater exactly to me. I can still enjoy it for what it is as long as I care to.
This game looks so good to me so far. Like I used to play Dauntless, spend a lot of time in Demon Souls, DS2 and Bloodborne, and let's not talk about my Isaac playtime. I also played Genshin and I'm interested in Honkai. This game is literaly for me, and I would sell my soul to dolphin in this game, if I had money LMAO
Take a DMC-rogue lite with the aesthetic/vibe of Jet Set Radio and Splatoon, the energy of a team-assist fighting game, with a cast/roster that could rival team-based shooters, and I'm sold. I'm stupid excited for this game.
Their biggest hurdle will be getting rid of the unresponsive enemies. They couldn't do it in HI3rd, nor genshin, and PGR that is basically HI3rd also didn't fix it, and the ZZZ game footage didn't look like it did enough yet. They better nail this before launch or it'll get pretty miserable after the first few hours.
I'm curious what you mean by unresponsive enemies. The bosses in PGR are hella responsive imo, Camu has a shockwave to avoid stunlock, Qu can sidestep then counter, Trailblazer can parry and counter, Hive Mother will enter an enraged state if you fail a single parry sequence, you can destroy the Pterygota Queens wings to prevent certain attacks. And the most responsive boss of all time, The Twins will always counter matrix you. If you're talking about mob aggressiveness, it really depends on the game mode, story mode/farming node mobs are tame but Babel/Norman mobs are more aggressive.
I think this will always be a problem with these gachas since they target the casual audience and on top of that they deal with the very limited input systems in mobile devices. It's always a very watered down version of a Devil May Cry or Platinum games style combat. Genshin can get away with that a bit better because of the elemental reaction system.
@@Pequod_LZ Things either get fully staggered and do nothing, or don't get staggered at all and don't allow your animations to play out. That means your input doesn't really matter either way, which makes them unresponsive. I'm mostly talking about the mihoyo games, but PGR while slightly better at it suffers from the exact same problem 90% of the time. Even through the agression modification you can select in other game modes, with enemies at the edge of the screen doing nothing or when you want to wait to dodge an attack in order to matrix an orb, you notice how unresponsive things are very often.
@@shevek5185 But the elemental reaction system makes things even less responsive, with other lasting effects that stagger enemies outside of just the character combos. I understand the mobile limitations because it plays like dogshit with touch screen, but we're at a point the casual audience shouldn't be a factor anymore, after they already made genshin focused on them. I'm not expecting them to pull a dark souls or sekiro completely, just take a page or two from them when it comes to making the combat more engaging. Whatever it takes to distance themselves from button mashing as much as possible.
@@ch1dd Aren't those the only 2 states possible though, they're either staggered or not staggered. I've never seen a game with a semi staggered state. Games where enemies are easily staggered pose no challenge (genshin mobs), while games with too high of stagger are frustrating (dark souls) or worse, they're damage sponges (genshin bosses). What makes a game really engaging is skill expression, you see this in DmC combo videos, no damage runs in Dark Souls or perfect parries in Sekiro. This is the very same reason i find PGR fun, every character has their own mechanic that you have to learn (and some bosses have mechanics you have to learn). I just wonder if zzz has enough skill expression to warrant enjoyment or if it's another genshin, all style no substance. Mihoyo's track record makes me lean towards the latter.
Based on ZZZ CBT streams of other big name streamers, majority of the playerbase saw ZZZ as being a fresh take for the genre and is a "baby" that's why it's easy But they don't know how much the game follows the footstep of Punishing Gray Raven. It may be easy now, but once you get to endgame, they will slap you, pummel you, throw you, drag you across the room, throws you into orbit, then kicks you to space, and as you lose your breathing it will shoulderbash you down to earth (all of them have a microsecond of I-frame to dodge though, so if you're bad at i-frame/dodging, then you won't enjoy it fully) Mtashed probably won't enjoy this as he found PGR "too difficult", the game in CBT just shows not its potential but what it offers. The same way HSR never became hard until they slammed Swarm Disaster Or the way Genshin was never hard until they made difficulty tweaks and dps checks in floor 12 ZZZ mobs are dmg sponges and have i-frames themselves because the game expects you to be flexible enough to adapt to being defensive but not lacking on the offense. MonHun, PGR, Souls-like players will definitely enjoy this. And I will be one of those who will drop HSR for the sweaty playstyle of ZZZ to compensate downtime of content for Genshin (cuz the lore is just too good and I didnt invest 3 years of my life to not get to the end of the story) and HSR is more of a routine-type game, not for me since I like to be really engaged with my games, I love HSR, but I might drop it because the grind there is too straining and I'm feeling the burnout faster.
to be fair, us ex-genshin players demanded harder content without realizing that it was supposed to be a playable anime. but yeah I agree, zzz looks amazing, im sad i didnt get access to the beta testing :/ also anyone know the name of the bgm?
There is also a big elephant in the room in gacha games, part of the community of a certain happy game that was released in a very dark time, became too attached to it. Due to the state of the world and the game's theme, it ended up attracting a lot of lonely people, but now they can't have that game taken away from them, they will, even if unconsciously, try to bring down every other games, even games from the same company, to prevent the game they are strongly attached lose the headlights or eventually delay EOS, part of this community will criticize and speak badly of any new game. We can even go deeper with brand commitment/loyalty, the need for validation and stuff like that.
I do agree with the TV mode, It needs more combats. But you don't need to click to move with the mouse, you can just move with WASD or arrow keys. Corruption is only bad if you get up to 5, if you get about or more than 5, you get kicked out.
There's a lot of projection going on here. I get it, you like hard content, but don't pretend like there aren't a lot of people that keep harping on about harder content where it has no place. It happened in Genshin and Honkai too, and you didn't call those out ONCE in this video. At least be consistent. There's entire games that have been ruined by people harping on and on about "more difficulty" only to end up breaking what was working. As for the difficulty of the game, I don't really care either way. I'll check it out if I vibe with the mechanics, systems, progression speed, etc. I'll continue, if not, It's just another Gacha in the dozens of Gachas I've moved on from.
Yea that was the vibe I got from him too; there were some decent points, but there was still way too much projection going on for me to completely agree with him.
As someone who was mildly interested in the Genshin/Star Rail popularity boom, but couldn't get into them because the super-dainty-and-elegant character designs were not my thing, Zenless sounds like the cup of tea I've been waiting for. The Deadpool-like android, the delinquent banchō with a pile bunker drill arm, and the hulking fuck-off bear are showing the wilder variety in character design I've been wishing for in Mihoyo games.
The boss nerf is optional, for weekly bosses not world bosses, and only during the story quest, noone who wants endgame content is mad about it. It's just for people who are starting out, dont have great artifacts or teams, and wanna complete the later story quests. Idk where you got your information, but like, you could have at least checked the patch notes before putting it in your video. The endgame discussion isn't even about difficulty nearly as much as it's about resin gating and lack of diverse content. People consider Abyss to be _decently_ hard, depending on the abyss, but it's not really repeatable unless you just want to speedrun for it's own sake.
I'm not sure saying this game isn't for genshin players or starrail players is a completely accurate statement. There are plenty of other players who like a variety of different games and genres like yourself. I do agree this game should try to do its own thing though, having its own identity is very important.
3:57 i have to disagree with this one coach it’s most certainly the higher you get the more optimally invested you and not purely skill as said in the video but regardless great vid as always!
"This game is for people who want a challenge" The number one complaint is that its trivially easy. People are making an assumption based on what they've experienced, you are making an assumption based on what you are hoping for. As it stands nothing reflects your position about this game being for people who want a challenge, because as of yet no challenge exists in this game.
The number one complaint is from people who have only invested 2hrs into the game. I know this because it was physically impossible for that many people (at the time of making this video) to have had that specific complaint AND be further than Ch1 in the game. As of right now, I've watched everyone within Ch2 say it's easy, but get clapped by new enemies, bosses, etc. Well past that point is an extreme difficulty that NOBODY has access to from this beta or the previous one because no one has reached mid game yet. These complaints are coming from people playing the tutorial expecting to die frame 1. That's crazy to stand on.
@@Iyoverse We are now another day deeper, and it seems to be the most persistent complaint, still - the combat is too trivial. I appreciate your response, but I don't think it, as of yet, reflective of the reality of the current content available to us in the beta.
I'm still confused as to who "you" is referring to. Star Rail and Genshin are already very different games; it's not a surprise if ZZZ is also going to do something else. The main thing they have in common is that they're gacha games, and this is still going to be the same in ZZZ.
Why are you referring the dodge and stagger check with big name like elden ring like it's a big thing ? Those things are not limited to those games only, I've played games 10 years ago that has the same thing. By no mean their combat is bad, it just feel so.. Basic. You have parry, you have , you have stagger value, you have flashy move for the casuals, you have some seemingly complex combat system to trick the hardcore into thinking that this game combat is complex. It's actually by design, they will make a game complex enough to make people feel like the game is having depth, but they will not make it too skill base just so that you can also pay 2 win for it. They did it with genshin, they did it with HSR, with this pattern I doubt they will not do the same with this game. I mean if you enjoy playing the game is totally fine, at the end of the day if you enjoy playing it's all that matter, you don't need to bring in big name here for comparison just to make this game feel like it's a genre changing phenomenon. I get it, you love the game, then transfer than energy and attitude for your audience so they'll also love it like you do, but to keep bringing in souls game in here like it's relevant to this game or anything feel so weird. Because I've seen a lot of people jumping on the souls game hype train, soul-like game, etc.. just to make their game feel more impressive than it is. Let not even starting with monster hunter in here, because what I've seen in the beta there is nothing like it at all, all the weapon in Monster hunter refer to a play style of its own, you can say each weapon is a different class, But I don't see that in ZZZ, you have normal/charge attack, a skill, a QTE skill, and a burst, very basic, the triggering condition for QTE almost the same, with maybe a little bit extra effect, skill and burst is basically, cool animation stuff with maybe some effect. In monster hunter, each weapon has their own move set and when I say move set I don't mean different in animation only, but a whole different playstyle you need to adapt to, like great sword with charging style, or insect glaive with jumping around, or charge blade with basically a parry master kind of play style,... in ZZZ, each character different is a skill animation, character model, different a little bit in stagger value and that's it, the gearing system here might play a big role to make their play style feel versatile and in future no doubt they'll add more to make game feel more versatile in play style, but that's just a speculation for the future base on what I hope it would be, last time I did that in genshin they turned the game into a shit hole, so unless I see them do it I will not make assumption, and my judgement only viable for this beta alone, And boi I hope I'm not wrong about their future because I do like to play such game. There is nothing wrong to like a game and passionate about it, I'm also doing the same here, but to compare a small little mechanic one game has and compare it to some big name like Elden ring or Monster hunter to make the game feel more impressive feel very disingenuous.
As a guy who beat Lies of P recently, loves playing charge blade, plays multiple fighting game, whose favorite rpg is P5 and is lvl 70 in Star Rail. This game is for me.
I was excited for ZZZ initially because of how disappointing Genshin's endgame is, but so far, I haven't heard anything too great about the game. The initial image I had for it of a great "roguelike action game" is slowly fading away. - The main story missions are now puzzles inside the TV instead of a roguelike, which is a red flag for the direction of the game IMO. - Everybody complains about spending way too much time in that TV mode instead of combat. - Just like you, people say the roguelike elements are meh. I think if the roguelike part was fundamentally good then it'd be fun right away, not "later in the game". - The difficulty is unclear as you said, but at least so far I haven't seen anybody give strong examples of "good difficulty". Maybe it's just the fault of the beta's content, but even a game like Wuthering Waves showed a first boss that many people called a "good challenge". Meanwhile, with ZZZ everybody says they didn't have to think ever during combat. - To my understanding, there's going to be something similar to artifact grinding hell here as well... So, I dunno. With each CBT my hype for the game slowly dies off. At this point, I went from being hyped about the game to wanting proof that there's still something worth looking forward to.
As of now, I don‘t feel like ZZZ is going to appeal to me either but hey, I‘m cool with that. In fact I am glad that I can keep focusing on my current games. I will look up my favorite CC‘s playing it and refine my opinion, maybe it‘ll stay the same. I‘m mostly hooked up with HSR and R1999 currently. Some AK too.
Same here, I'm not sure if ZZZ will be for me. I'm glad for it as well, both because (like you) I can focus on other games, and also because Mihoyo pumps out quality games, so I'm happy they are diversifying with each one rather than just using the same formula.
I will say right now, ZZZ definetly has room to become a difficult game if thats what people want, rouges as a genre can be scaled up or down easily and it wouldnt be hard at all to actually make difficult content with modifiers and buffs a debuffs you can obtain. I've played just about every rougelite and rougelike you can name and i can say osme of them DO actually start off pretty easy but later down the line it can get difficult, with this being a gacha I would like to see how they would go about insentavising you to actually pull for units if the game is actually really easy. I dont really mind it staying easy/power fantasy kinda as long as it feel good to do so and its not a chore to as to something like genshin like running around the map to collect beetles for 2 hours.
They can always go the pgr route where banner units have more dps, I-frames and hyperarmor along with time stop in their kit to incentivize more pulls. While more dps is perfectly fine, the rest they need to be very careful about.
but the biggest question is, will the devs actually make the game harder? looking at genshin and looking at the complains on ZZZ, they'll more likely make shit easier. it's clear mihoyo doesn't have a clear direction on what they want their games to be, genshin has the foundations of a meaningfully challenging game, it has elemental reaction based combat, artifacts, talents, stats etc. all those systems give the impression that you need to fully utilize those to get through future challenging content, at least that's the impression that gave us players initially since you usually don't build systems in a game and not use them because the game's so easy you don't need to use them but some players kept complaining and complaining it's too hard now genshin is braindead easy and all their systems and mechanics are going to waste because of that, they don't have a clear goal for the game, they build one thing and then do another instead of continually building on and improving a certain system. and you got that right, genshin "end game" feels like a chore, running around collecting butterflies, popping balloons etc. because there's no actual end-game, like who but 5 year olds actually want to play a 90gb game collecting butterflies? it's not stimulating gameplay.
Yeah they probably will end up either keeping the difficutly the same or making it easier. Mihoyo is dead set on making a character building simulator game for some reason with no real content to build these units for@@f.b.l.9813
16:36 literally me. I played Genshin before and it was not for me, but once I was given the chance to play the second beta for Zenless I fell in love with the game and played it non stop. ZZZ is the only Hoyo game I'll actually play, sink hours and money into. (BTW I 100% agree with the things you said in this vid.)
I don't know if u did zzz videos yet, but Imma binge watch that for sure instantly. Interesting video, really clear, and really well explained. Also really true.
If anyone's been playing HSR F2P since launch and can't clear MOC 5 it's not because it's too hard or they haven't spent, it's because they haven't been playing every day and actually working on their account, and if they don't play often then please stop trying to choose the direction for the game the rest of us actually play daily and enjoy.
I commend your takes here but, you are simply wrong about the audience. The primary audience, just like with HSR, is actually Genshin players because the pool of players is just that large and they are known to spend a metric fuck ton of money for their favorite characters. HSR is wildly popular and making a ton of money. Do you think it would ever be remotely as successful if Genshin was never made? Genshin didn't just cater to a vast swath of action RPG gamers, or puzzlers/explorers, or story gamers... it created an entirely new subsection gamers. These gamers will give any new Hoyo game a solid chance to hook them. Just like Blizzard made "Blizzard gamers", Hoyo has made "Hoyo Gamers" and you'd better believe they are absolutely catering ZZZ to that audience.
Honestly I’m super hyped for zzz, it’s got rougelike elements, persona elements, fighting game elements, I think it’s dope as hell and everything I’m into
I agree that not every game is for me. I don't know if ZZZ will be for me, but I do plan to give it a try. For reference (but not in any order) I play: Aether Gazer, Black Desert Online, Tower of Fantasy, Nikke, Genshin, Star Rail, Reverse 1999, and Path to Nowhere. So I don't think targeting someone like me is worth it. I play anything that is good and catches my eye regardless of what people say on the internet about the game.
PSA: WATCH THE ENTIRE VIDEO (at least up to 12 minutes) BEFORE YOU SAY SOMETHING STUPID TOWARDS ME in a derogatory manner. I'm 1000% open for discussions. I love that stuff, but please be respectful to me or anyone else in the comment section. It's incredibly easy to join in on the discussion, but at least be aware of what you're trying to argue/debate about. I'm going back to playing Zenless now. See y'all later tonight.
💽www.twitch.tv/iyokuu
its TRASH.. u have unli skills, dodges, chain combos, s so much that the mobs DO NOT GET the CHANCE to attack.. so its basically SUPER EASY MODE(for brainless/skill less players).. repeat that to INFINITY and you have ur game lols.. lets not start with the "roguelike" mode lols.. the most boring and freaking "main" mode of the game.. u have basically a black screen with boxes, you cant even zoom out to plan your "strategy" on where to go.. add the fact that they "NERF" a bunch of characters in the game, waifu nicole anyone? cat girl ultimate? lols.. NO even if this is a 16yr+ rating game, you will still get CENSORSHIP.. this game is DEAD BEFORE IT EVEN RELEASES..
The thing I like about genshin is that they have a lot of surprise additions to the game that they dont include in the marketing and if you are a true genshin player youd know exactly who are those really playing the game, and those who just watch the news and make uninformed opinions like this xD. But I dont blame you though. Having wrong opinions because of insufficient information is TOTALLY fine dude. xD
Also I am a HSR player too, but it doesnt really have as much content as genshin has so I mostly play genshin, and HSR just 3 trimes a week. (Yes, I dont care about daily chores). To be honest with your opinion with ZZZ, I agree. The only way I think hoyoverse could muster up more players in ZZZ is to give PvP content. Since the mechanics in ZZZ is a lot more omplex than HSR, and could probably make a good gamplay loop. But its just hopes.
In all honestly a proper PvP in HSR is IMPOSSIBLE. Period
I love how the game looks and how it's combat looks 😍 sorry if I spelled smtn wrong I got Corona for the 3rd time
@mwx5314 Bro what players even have access to right now is the first few hours of the game, its literally just the tutorial lol.
@@mwx5314 Blud here thinking first few chapters of the game have the most difficult enemies. It's like saying fighting Lawachurls and Dvalin is the best enemies Genshin can offer
I think its a huge plus that zenless doesnt have an open world like genshin so more dev time and resources can go into building onto the actual combat (like star rail).
It's the kind of game where you just load it up every day and beat some stuff up, and honestly I don't mind that particular genre.
Also actually makes it more phone-appropriate.
they have teams for everything anyway its not really an excuse
Yeah, and it's the type of gameplay flow I'm rather partial to. Sometimes I want the gameplay loop without wasting time exploring. If I want exploration, I turn to another game.
Problem is, combat is quite bland and empty.
@@feryuae nah
The fact that they can use the same engine, design and art teams, etc. to produce wildly different games that appeal to different demographics is brilliant.
I know, right?!
i dont think they use the same art/design team actually
bruh the graphics are kinda samey and the gameplay looks very similar.
HSR's management has been so much better than genshins has ever been. I love the endgame, i love every event
Biiig faaacts! I love both games, but HSR is taking the cake on development team listening to us.
Bro, HSR events are no different than Genshin. It's just minigames and story.
@@Goujikibut better
@@Goujiki better minigames and better story.
cry more@@Goujiki
You actually hyped me up way more for this game with this video.
I ain't even mean to do all that, but I'll take it. haha
Me too lol
I agree, and I’m a new viewer meaning I don’t simply agree coz I’m a fan or anything
@@Iyoverse title click bait just because you loves playing honkai star rail doesn't mean everyone will share your love for same game.
This guys insulting all f2p genshin impact player and honkai star rail player.
Getting measly 10k views getting on his head
@@kisansantosh9127 That's... what he said. He never insulted the f2p aspect of hsr or genshin, or I never thought that's what he meant, as a f2p on both games. He said multiple time that the fact that everyone doesn't share the same love for the same game means that there should be no reason to make zenless like them. Point being idk where you find it insulting and he got me hyped up even more.
I'm also going to f2p zenless
All you’ve said/shown, makes me even more exited to play the game. Dodge/parry mechanincs are usually soo fun, along with learning the enemies moveset, to finally overcome the challenge. Sadly i didnt get to play this cbt, but ill definetly try this game at launch.
Definitely playing ZZZ now lol
I think HSR took my interest away more than Genshin _because_ of the Turn Based system as well as there placing more importance on how you build your characters. I still play both but I play HSR way more. ZZZ looks like alot of fun and seems way more up my alley, especially off my recent roguelike phase lol
HSR is better suited for working adults, because if you need to commute 2-3 hours to work, you can complete ~50-75% of Daily Hunt.
I've noticed they've also been extending events for longer periods of times for the most part between the two games also. As if they expect people to pull away from a time and maybe come back later rather than being fully attached for every day login. Hell, even Genshin updated the returner page and event for when people don't log in for a while. Seems like they're fully on board to have people choose whatever style game suits them most.
For me, I like exploration games, turn based games, and roguelike action combat. So I'm probably going to put down several of the games for long stretches before returning. And it benefits the same PRIVATE company either which way, who isn't beholden to shareholders. Which helps add quality to all their games in turn. Hoyoverse going crazy
Noice. In my case, it is the exact opposite: just because of the turn based, I'm probably never going to play hsr, pretty sad as the story and characters seem interesting
Honestly, ZZZ ticks all of the boxes for me
-Stage-based combat like in Honkai Impact 3rd
-Giant bosses like Elden Ring
-Pop-jazz-modern fantasy-esque style like Persona 5
-Diverse set of characters and factions like Arknights
This might be up my alley, all that's left is the main course - the story (And maybe how fair they are with the gacha currency, hopefully it's more than Genshin or HSR)
me too
since the announcement trailer I knew ZZZ wasn't for me, I heavily prefer playing turn-based games (which is what got me interested in HSR, been playing since launch). I'll just be watching any updates the game gets as a mere observer.
I'm happy for the people that have been waiting for a game like ZZZ: whether it be the combat, the story, the characters, etc. I wish you all the best
Its actually Hoyos point, they want to cather to so many different audiences to be everywhere. Easier story driven for genshin, autoplay roundbased for HSR and now rogue light and soulslike for ZZZ. At this point i wouldnt wonder if hoyo brings out some sport or beat em up game in the future. The Quality of all 3 games are peak be it graphics sounds or story every game so far is within the top if not the top.
this comment is explained better than Iyo to be honest. Shitting Genshin and Praising HSR is for me hypocritical.
Exactly, hoyo doesn't want to compete with themselves by making the same type of game over and over again. They're clearly trying to appeal to slightly different types of audience with each new game.
@@maneuverxz3290 real and true, genshin, hsr, hi3rd (and this one probably) are super easy, and they're meant to be that way. The reason people hate on genshin is because they don't have a place where you can really test your roster's abilities with harder content despite the spiral abyss getting harder and harder over time
@@maneuverxz3290 Exactly what I was thinking. Making a video called "ZZZ is not for you... and that's OK" and then shitting on Genshin because it's... well, not for you is pretty silly.
Right? Instead of creating Genshin 2nd, which would attract the same audience, why don't they develop a different game to appeal to a different audience? I play both Genshin and HSR because I accidentally love both genres. However, because of that, HYV didn't really make more money from me, as I only have limited budget for game. Getting a new audience is probably better from their perspective.
as someone who clears the abyss with ease , going and playing star rail was so fun like i actually struggled to beat moc for a bit and just recently beat disaster lvl 5 after like 10 attempts. i just wish genshin had something that wasnt an event for 14 days that lets you really test all of your characters builds like star rail does.
I’m extremely excited for the release of ZZZ. Gameplay, style, and animations all look amazing. Just hoping it doesn’t take too long to come out 😂
When does it Come out?
@@xuryx01 They haven’t announced anything concrete yet, but knowing how the release schedule for Star Rail and Genshin went, there is probably going to be a final closed beta in 6-7 months then the game will probably come out 3 months after that. So summer 2024 is my best guess. Though they are releasing character trailers and demos on the ZZZ RUclips channel almost weekly at this points, so it could be sooner.
@@JesseEubankswhen math ain’t mathing xD summer 2024 is way too early for them to do another beta test. We would be lucky if it released before September, late 2024 or early 2025 would be my best guess. Hoyoverse likes to space up their games and hype the new one up when the hype for the predecessor starts to die down. I think it will be a while before we actually get to play it
@@xiaoandyoimiyasimp3193 I’m not just saying any random bullshit 🤦♂️. Genshin CBT2 (March 18, 2020) to final beta (July 2, 2020) took ~3 months. Genshin final beta to release (September 28, 2020) took ~3 months. Star Rail CBT2 (May 25, 2022) to final beta (February 10, 2023) took ~8 months. Final beta to release took ~2 months. This is also not accounting for the fact that Hoyoverse got a license to publish ZZZ in China last month, which means they have to release the game within a year or they are put back on a long waitlist. So 2024 for ZZZ is basically confirmed unless something bad happens. Going by their beta schedule, I think the most realistic release frame is Q3 2024 (July, August, or September), They might even try to release it even earlier if they want it to be before Genshin 5.0
@@JesseEubanks I didn'tn say you were, why so aggrassive? I only said that because by your estimation of final beta test being 6-7 months from now and the release being 3 months after that makes it 9-10 months from now, which makes the release date somewhere in September
People throwing around the term "souls like" is starting to become torture. There's elements like the score counter floating to the left that draw this game closer to stylish action games (i like calling them spectacles; think Bayonetta, Metal Gear Rising, Devil May Cry or even Ultrakill), but my main request for you and people like you is to try saying "souls-like" without saying "souls-like". And if you have to say it, maybe don't do so more than once.
No, playing a game with Genshin's gameplay shouldn't be deragatory. In another place you may even see these types be called "cozy games". Just in case, though, before you try calling them that on video, make sure you ask other people if they would call it that. If not, at least make sure you can explain why you'd call it so.
A couple of corrections: Hoyoverse never stated that they wouldn't add endgame content to Genshin, only that they don't want to add another Spiral Abyss. Secondly, the option to make bosses easier, as far as I'm aware, applies only to the Archon and story quests, not the grind.
You are correct with all of that but people twist words to fit own beliefs.
What about the excessive anxiety statement
@@Hy-BridAbroadno iyo wasn't because they said if they added a second spiral abyss it would give players excessive anxiety implying they wont add ANY endgame it ain't happening stop coping
@@diren-oh6zw
They may not add endgame but they are definitely add more game modes
@@gameslay8124 What about it?
Great video. I've heard stories from friends that some ppl treat Genshin like a collectible game. One friend said his cousin didn't even leave Mondstat and pays money just to collect the characters and not even build them. It was crazy to me to hear this but I believe it is more common than not but probably most players get to 1or 2 zones beyond Mondstat and don't bother with others after Mondstat. Genshin really does have a younger casual Minecraft-like Roblox loving audience I firmly believe too.
Then they just collect it and never connected with the characters. Imagine getting for a zaddy (Neuv) without realizing how torturous his life being the judge and being a second to a fraud, but ofc you wouldn't know that because you're busy messing with the dragon in Mondstadt
Collecting game is just for people who don't bother for the very wide lore it offers
@@Elio-nu3fzaka weirdoes
The idea of reduced difficulty is only present in the story mode when you are fighting the boss for the first time. If you have brought a team that is not suited to deal with the given boss, it is not a bad idea to reduce its difficulty.
Even Honkai Impact 3rd, which is notorious for the difficulty of its endgame content, has this feature where when going into a story boss, you can choose between easy and hard difficulty.
The problem with HSR's endgame is it comes at the cost of the Story Progression. You'd think that HoYo will be faster now that they've been doing this with Genshin now and they're more efficient, but no, HSR's story is STOPPED DEAD in it's tracks. Each game's bugget isn't infinite, so they have to choose their priorities correctly, and I'm glad Genshin chose to progress the Archon Quest more and also build up the open-world more.
I've interested in this because it's basically rogue-like HI3 (the combat is almost lifted straight from it with some spins of its own). As a variety player that likes intergrated worlds, I'm probably HoYo's exact target audience cause I end up liking all they games they've made since HI3 (haven't tried anything before that). The "Persona Reaper" idea would be cool to add in. Let It Die (also rouge-like/lite game) as well where if ou spend way too much time on a floor these special agent like guys would come to kill you.
Mtashed quit PGR cause it was too hard, he said he quit Genshin like twice, he's the least reputable person to give an opinion on a game though.
My only complaint for Star Rail is that relic drops are becoming infuriating so more resin might help ease the continous grind. Also I wish I could just Auto SU (and I mean auto move through the maps)
Also Zenless Zone Zero sounds sick and I'm so down to play it!
Completely agree on the auto SU! Right now I'm only really doing SU for the rewards, but it's pretty tedious to have to walk through it and do the events and such.
Auto SU sounds bad, might as well auto everything, SU sound be more like swarm though, less walking around
i swear genshin has better artifact drop rates than star rail, its straight up awful in star rail
The "harder" content is just healthier enemies, so you just have to clutch up with either healers that heal the whole team and buff your allies/debuff the enemy, or hypercarries that ignore enemy turns altogether.
@@remainer Genshin's artifact farming feels better because you can off-set one piece; you can't do that in HSR. You can have an amazing 4liner but if it is in the wrong set it is a dead relic.
ngl i also feel like some ppl formed opinons WAY too early for ZZZ. Good input tho dude i agree with a lot of what you're sayin. from what ive seen, they are untapping more and more of potential im seeing for the game. lookin forward to more coverage 👍
Thank you! Feels like we see this "what about me" mentality all over, not just in games. Sometimes stuff isn't for you and that's OKAY. Thank you for speaking up on this. 🤘🍄👍
yea, hard the please both side, the non skilled player that want easy and not hard gameplay vs skilled player that wants hard challenge. hoyo lean the easy because they know who gives or spend money the most. they have the data. genshin will not stay 3 years going strong if they dont know what they are doing.
It seems like someone its holding a grudge against genshin lol, i do agree with the part where players should not demand it to be easy, but at the same time you also not the one to decide whos the game for, or what is the target audience just because you saw some people who agrees with you on twitter, youre the one demanding all these things to make the game perfect for u, so why the rest of them cant? I think the ZZZ looks awesome and i will play it as it is
This is where we would disagree on the take. I'm not demanding the game be perfect for me. The game, as of right now, is 90% exactly what I want. The criticism I provided towards the end of the video (TV mode and a request for a co-op) are merely requests to improve the experience of all players, but especially those like myself.
That's why I mentioned in the beginning of the video that it's gonna sound hypocritical, but it's not really. It'd be me demanding something if the game was nothing like it is now and I begged to the heavens for it to be different.
I also don't have a grudge against Genshin. haha I just stopped playing it as heavily because I was building/spending for nothing.
Yo I'll be straight, I don't trust Mtash. And that's the nicest I can phrase it.
What is strange is that Genshin Impact has all these progression systems like artifacts, talents, and weapons but it is designed so that you do not ever need to interact with any of these progression systems. In fact the more you interact with the progression system the worse the game gets. It is as if two completely different development studios designed the combat and progression and a different one designed the story and world. Then they smashed them together into this dysfunctional mess.
It does however make it easy to just pick up the game whenever and immediately be able to smash anything and everything. There is no need to ever do dailies or spend resin. It is pointless unless you specifically want to do Spiral Abyss.
finally a really elaborate and coherent opinion that doesn't go to extremes, whether positive or negative just because you don't like something or because you really like a character and therefore that character's game can't be bad, I'm bored from seeing extremely polarized opinions and especially what you said at the beginning, this game is not for everyone and it is not exactly for the usual players of other games from hoyoverse.
I think that what a beta of a game really needs is opinions like This, to help improve the product in the aspects that it does not do very well and to reaffirm what it does do well, and above all and most importantly someone who really understands what the game wants to offer and achieve, who understands its mechanics and who really understand the complexity it has despite the apparent simplicity that many believe the game has only based on first impressions and the early game, an excellent video
I always loved how HI3 feels like DMC but I think i saw parries in ZZZ and now im interested in trying it out. I hope they add aerial attacks so i can rainstorm somebody but that might be asking to much.
I like genshin combat mechanics and overworld more than HSR. However HSR has better endgame options which gives players more reason/motivation to keep pulling and building characters. That's the biggest gripe I have with GI .. I mean you can invest in lots of great characters but the only content you can really enjoy them is a 1-2 hr content every couple of weeks. Even the events are such a bunch of crap.. I mean why sweat it and build a cracked character when all you are gonna do is pop balloons , play hide and seek , play a stupid card game or engage in a bunch of meaningless convo which you can't even skip.
exactly, it's like the people who implemented the combat systems are not in communication to the people who are implementing the events, they're so disjointed, the events make no use of the existing combat systems.
This is kinda funny, I got into the latest beta knowing nothing about the game. My impression so far has been "hm, it's interesting but I *really* don't think it's for me". ... So basically, I agree with you, I've always thought it's kinda silly how often people demand something conforms to their interests, rather than just going out and finding something else that fits better.
Because finding something that interests them takes effort. At least for them. They just want more BL and GL bait content for their egregious headcanons.
Bro reminds me so much of gachasmack. Not being afraid to deal with the entitled fans that hoyoverse has been plagued with. Not being afraid to share his nuanced opinions about things. Not being afraid to even be wrong. This is why I subbed a long time ago because of nuanced discussions like this. Keep up the good work Iyo!
Disclaimer: I get this one might change as we get more gear and stronger units but…My biggest gripe with ZZZ is how spongy the enemies are, even the low tier mobs takes waaay too long to kill and dont get me started with bosses. I get it, they want to pad out the difficulty by making things longer to kill.. honestly, since we are comparing this to souls game.. those games focused more on understanding boss mechanics, avoiding attacks, and looking for attack opportunities rather than slapping in ‘more health’.. and I like that better. They should do that instead.
Anyways, aside from that… I want this to be on consoles too, cause aint no way am i playing this on my mobile phone (I dont think my old laptop can play this)
because more health is the easy and lazy way to make things "difficult"
This is normal for the gendra. How these games' combat work is that you buildup Decibels or Daze (or Combo if you will) by fighting the small enemies to then take down tougher ennemies with and Ult or a Switch.
The small ennemies being meatsacks actually makes the game easier because you can just stack stack on them even more.
Genshin’s “hard” for me in the way that it’s so tedious even just tryna get through/to the main story 🥲 I started playing when it launched back during covid (when I had a lot more time on my hands lol) but stopped after a year or so. I want to experience the main story so bad, but I don’t want to actually play the game LOL
I can appreciate HSR since the main story quests aren’t necessarily locked behind map exploration/puzzles for my pea sized brain 😌
I've played APHO 1&2 twice and i think that ZZZ is the closest think we're getting to a stand-alone APHO
I might actually skipping this game. Simply because I already have PGR and Aether Gazer as my action games.
These exact two are my action games as well. Good taste friend.
Exatcly. If they had ai teammates like aethergazer i would play it but nah just another tag in/out and we have so many of those already.
Genshin being on easy mode is deliberate to attract casuals for sure. Its like a launching point for them. Plenty of my friends who never touched a gacha game got into Genshin and from there went off to HSR, AG, PGR etc. The addition of these new games are for the more dedicated players like HSR will instantly attract the Honkai crowd and the people who wanted more difficult content. I'm guessing ZZZ was made for the leftover other half of people who dont want to play turn based and want more combat focused games. Genshin has Abyss but aside from that, nothing to test the limits of our characters. I've been playing hoyo games since HI3 so i'm sort of treating ZZZ as a spiritual successor of sorts but I haven't really looked into the game that deeply. I am excited to try it out once it releases since I'm more of the action combat crowd and hopefully its more combat and less mini-games unlike genshin. I play HSR but without the Honkai name and characters I might have not tried it.
That actually makes sense! So instead of making Genshin harder, like some fans were asking for, they're making harder games for the fans to move over to. This let's them keep Genshin as a casual game but also gives challenge for the fans.
This game doesn't seem like it's for me, since I'm more of a casual, but I hope you like it!
genshin, instead of attracting me to play more of their games or even other gacha games, it actually made me hate gachas even more and mihoyo games in general, i loveD genshin but it's not the game i expected it to be and they keep making decisions that doesn't fit what i wanted, so i stopped, HI3 isn't also my cup of tea and i've grown out of turn based combat so all 3 released mihoyo games are not appealing to me, so if anything, what mihoyo expects to happen doesn't always happen.
Instead we get 50% or more puzzle in ZZZ, I don't think it's combat focused at all
Genshin’s endgame has the potential to become incredibly punishing. Anyone who’s ever faced 2 consecrated beasts in spiral abyss will know. The problem is that in 99% of the cases, the character power scaling lets you just mow down enemies no problem. Neuvilette is the most recent example.
Star Rail isn't really all that different. If you have all the limited banner destruction 5-stars, supported by well-invested supports like pela/tingyun/asta and very future proof sustains like fu xuan/luocha, you're essentially playing on easy mode. The only time I ever really saw a potential 'challenging' design boss was that silvermane captain who can counterattack meaning it can be a risk to blindly deal too much dps to the enemy side as it will all come back to you. But even that stopped being a problem once Fu Xuan entered the picture.
I dropped this the moment I witnessed the huge amount of censorship changes they made to characters.
Looks good. But I don't think I could take another gacha game. I already quit genshin for HSR. I won't add this on the list. Again, looks really good though.
I got baited in by ZZZ because of the persona-like music and style
Oh and finally can play as a male character with meat- but a bear- but then again I play kuma as a main in tekken so it all works out
coop is definitely a big plus. And not just tack-on coop that genshin has but actual well supported coop modes and functions
In my opinion the worst thing in zzz is the stamina system. Of course I don't mind having stamina for farming, but in this game you spend stamina even to play the story missions.
Just like in Honkai 3rd, nothing new
@@HollowProject It's not as abusive in Honkai Impact tho, they give you a LOT of stamina all the time. I recently came back to HI3rd and played from the first mission to chapter 8 and I'm still not out of stamina 💀
@@miguiREC who said that they wouldn't give us stamina refills from time to time? As far as I know, there's already a free daily coffee drink or whatever which gives you quite a bit of stamina, on top of what you've already regenerated throughout the day. And the stamina cost of missions and other stuff is STC because beta. Even in HSR on release there wasn't 2400 energy overcap feature, so something like that could be added to ZZZ later on.
@@HollowProject There is the possibility that they give us more stamina in the full game. But if we don't talk about it during the beta there's the possibility that they don't fix it, that's what betas are for.
@@miguiREC Yeah, I agree, we should definitely talk about ZZZs flaws, but not in a way like hating them, but more like being concerned that if hoyo doesn't improve these certain aspects, it may drastically impact playerbase and their enjoyment from the game
I actually really like the TV system in the game. There's a lot of really unique commissions like the one about the Prophet that is 2 hours long and I loved it. In order for the TV stuff to stay interesting, they need to create new stuff or shorten the stuff that isn't as engaging or interesting. I do enjoy it though when it's done well which I would say is probably like 70% of the time.
I really dislike the constant calling everything "souls like" or "souls mechanic". A dodge does not make anything souls like, they did not invent it, and souls combat is really not that good, it's just the encounter design that makes those games fantastic. ZZZ is clearly more action game inspired like DMC.
PGR / Honkai 3rd does it much better at the current stage anyway, which is odd, because you'd assume something newer from the team would be better than their previous work (Honkai Impact 3rd). If anything, it's more Bayonetta like, as it uses the same Witch Time dodge that Honkai Impact 3rd used.
Wait it’s soulslike?! FUCK YEAH! Now I’m interested!
honestly great take! i started playing genshin solely for the exploration and later the story quests, with the character building and combat being a nice side bonus because pretty numbers. when i saw HSR came out and thought it looked cool, but then i realized it was turn-based combat i knew it wasnt for me. frankly, ZZZ has a lot of stylized action and combat depth, reminding me of dmc which ive been craving more recently so when the full release of the game comes out, im definitely gonna grab it.
I really appreciate your honest, candid feedback and opinions. Long-time genshin fan (quit somewhat recently) who plays really to enjoy exploration and chill combat/story, and both ZZZ and HSR look great. It's amazing a single dev can make such unique titles. Not crazy about the fanbase, and while I personally don't mind the censorship (which I've also come to expect w Chinese titles), I also don't understand the complete rage over it. Wuthering Waves was recently "uncensored" (and players were ecstatic) - I prefer the old designs so much more, but it is what it is lol. I'm more focused on the game story/mechanics. Anyway new sub! Thanks for this.
The boss change for them being easier is only during the story version of the boss fight im 95% sure. When you farm the bosses you cannot lower their difficulty unless you go for less rewards. If anything, the bosses we're seeing in the abyss are more aggressive than ever instead of being impossible to hit dps checks.
It looks pretty crappy. I won't fully write it off yet till I see more chars but Enfield looking better for me
Totally respectable for sure!
Zenless talk starts at 06:45
That's what my chapters are for, but I appreciate the lookout.
@@Iyoverse oh duh mybad😅!!
I don't understand how you decide a game isn't for someone but it is for you if both you and the person also tried the game at surface level? There are bunch of other games with dodge and parry mechanics. Just because zzz have it doesn't mean it's going to be a difficult game. You can still have those mechanics and still end up being easy which is what most people afraid of in zzz. Imagine reaching interknot 30 playing for 20-30 hours and the game doesn't even have a single memorable boss fight that actually testing out your skill.
How long are people going to wait for this "end game" to come? Interknot 100? And even if the game eventually gets hard, by that time people already quit because it's too long to reach that point and they assume the game is easy. Even in the second hsr beta, people have to retry their first fight against cocolia, come on
It’s all good. People did not react to Genshin Impact well in the beginning as well. But after update 1.6 I think, it gained traction exponentially, because players finally figured out that it’s a elemental reaction/character switch game.
So I think so the same will happen to ZZZ. Once player realize that it’s a dodge/parry game, ZZZ will gain traction.
As f2p+, I think Genshin is much harder than Star Rail. I barely 36* Abyss and sometimes have to restart chambers, but need only 6 turns for MoC 10. Maybe it's because I played since day one in Star Rail but skipped around a year in Genshin since its release
From start to first full star clear I think HSR is easier too. Took me 2-3 months longer (without building only meta immediately) in Genshin than HSR.
Thing is active combat has *many* tiny optimization points, like stamina management, uptime, enemy baiting, grouping, plus element usage in Genshin. My first 36 star took me 8 entire hours for the final 3 stars as I needed to optimize every little thing to earn me that final missing second.
HSR being turnbased there's not much room for these optimizations.
Once one understands the characters it's 1. can you survive, 2. does the correct skill usage provide enough dmg, 3. are you close enough to realistically hope for some good rng.
That said, after playing a long time and having your characters pretty much fully built, either game is going to be trivial.
Genshin let's me max star Abyss with many different teams rather effortlessly at this point. If I take a team specifically catered to the current enemies, it's a walk in the park.
HSR is still slightly harder simply by me STILL not having full lvl 15 relics with the correct set boni on every character - plus not being max level on some either.
But neither is tuned to provide significant challenge to a full set of fully built characters, even at C0/R0/E0/S0 levels.
For me I really like what I have seen. Saying that however, I really liked Withering Waves. The game play of WW with the parry system wow, the game felt so amazing when you finally got that piece of gameplay. The bosses are very challenging and you need to learn to play the game. Learning the game or should I say getting better and learning after I died....that right there is what is amazing for me. It is all about skill!
Just thank you man, the fact that everyone spitting on the game have not trying it yet is so sad. I got in the beta and playing it for hours and im having a blast. Ty for saying true words, droped a like and a sub
The option to make the boss easier is literally only in the story quest. In open world, you still have to drop world level. I feel having more options is a positive. Floor 12 in the abyss is not easy imho.
I was rocking with you for the video for the most part until you said the various players from other genres are looking at this game.
I disagree with that part. I truly believe the only gamers who are looking at gacha games are gacha players.
Gamers who are not in this community look at the community and they kind of laugh at it. To be honest, considering the name of the genre says it all. They don't really take this genre or the players in it seriously.
I think the rest of what you said, or at least the overall message, which is not everything has to be for you, is a good message to have though.
I just wanna point out that Genshin is a game made for non-gamers. even If u r a gamer, u can still get satisfaction from the story, world exploration and team building. Genshin is just a perfect game for newbies.
Everything you said about how the games plays has me super excited. I sadly didn't get into the beta but man I can't wait.
I think that hoyo knows exactly who their target audience for zzz is: it’s honkai impact 3rd veterans. I watched a gameplay walkthrough of the current beta and the entire thing - from the stages to the very limited open world to the stage setting design to the ultimate evasion mechanics to the enemies - feels like what hi3 would’ve been from the start if hoyo had had the budget back then that they do know. And ofc as a veteran player who wasn’t too interested in zzz before this current beta, my interest was piqued when they released that trailer that had an enemy that was very. clearly. a honkai beast (pink and white), so obviously they plan on dropping more lore on the hoyoverse in this game (something I expected more of from hsr bc Welt is literally there but was sorely disappointed). I mean, New Eridu is _very_ reminiscent of Arc City, so who knows, maybe we’ll get cameos from Bronie, Cioara, and pop idol TeriTeri 👀
Edit: forgot to add that veteran players of hi3 are also used to extremely difficult combat content with a myriad of different mechanics that can’t all be bruteforced with the same team over and over again but instead requires having a plethora of teams, supports, knowing the mechanics of each boss, strategizing, and just having a lot of skill that’s learned through countless battle restarts. And basically 95% of the veterans I know (who are also competitive players) are paying customers. It’s the only way to stay afloat in the meta of hi3, but I’ve also noticed that we’re the demographic far more likely to consistently open our wallets for mihoyo’s other games and mihoyo obviously knows this.
Im really happy that this is going to be a character action game. I've played the shit out of games like DMC5, MGR:R and the Yakuza series and i love skill focused games. I think it works especially well with it being a gacha game since you'll probably win anything without having the most broken or meta stuff by pure skill but it shouldn't be easy, that's why I've enjoyed HSR so much, the party and character building elements add so much to it and pulling feels great because you are pulling to build a team and not only because the character is good
nah bruh 7:26 sold me, I love fromsoft games and having a cool characters to pull while also having an anime rogue like to play sounds amazing, I'm all in
Honestly everything I've heard has just made me think this game was made specifically for me.
I love these sorts of action-oriented games, and I'm even into puzzles enough that I think I'll like the TV ideas, at least for a time. Personally I hope it gets challenging, but even if it doesn't... like you said, I don't have to sweat it if the game doesn't cater exactly to me. I can still enjoy it for what it is as long as I care to.
This game looks so good to me so far.
Like I used to play Dauntless, spend a lot of time in Demon Souls, DS2 and Bloodborne, and let's not talk about my Isaac playtime. I also played Genshin and I'm interested in Honkai.
This game is literaly for me, and I would sell my soul to dolphin in this game, if I had money LMAO
Take a DMC-rogue lite with the aesthetic/vibe of Jet Set Radio and Splatoon, the energy of a team-assist fighting game, with a cast/roster that could rival team-based shooters, and I'm sold.
I'm stupid excited for this game.
I will just say the" you" in the title is not me.
Their biggest hurdle will be getting rid of the unresponsive enemies. They couldn't do it in HI3rd, nor genshin, and PGR that is basically HI3rd also didn't fix it, and the ZZZ game footage didn't look like it did enough yet. They better nail this before launch or it'll get pretty miserable after the first few hours.
I'm curious what you mean by unresponsive enemies. The bosses in PGR are hella responsive imo, Camu has a shockwave to avoid stunlock, Qu can sidestep then counter, Trailblazer can parry and counter, Hive Mother will enter an enraged state if you fail a single parry sequence, you can destroy the Pterygota Queens wings to prevent certain attacks. And the most responsive boss of all time, The Twins will always counter matrix you. If you're talking about mob aggressiveness, it really depends on the game mode, story mode/farming node mobs are tame but Babel/Norman mobs are more aggressive.
I think this will always be a problem with these gachas since they target the casual audience and on top of that they deal with the very limited input systems in mobile devices. It's always a very watered down version of a Devil May Cry or Platinum games style combat. Genshin can get away with that a bit better because of the elemental reaction system.
@@Pequod_LZ Things either get fully staggered and do nothing, or don't get staggered at all and don't allow your animations to play out. That means your input doesn't really matter either way, which makes them unresponsive. I'm mostly talking about the mihoyo games, but PGR while slightly better at it suffers from the exact same problem 90% of the time.
Even through the agression modification you can select in other game modes, with enemies at the edge of the screen doing nothing or when you want to wait to dodge an attack in order to matrix an orb, you notice how unresponsive things are very often.
@@shevek5185 But the elemental reaction system makes things even less responsive, with other lasting effects that stagger enemies outside of just the character combos.
I understand the mobile limitations because it plays like dogshit with touch screen, but we're at a point the casual audience shouldn't be a factor anymore, after they already made genshin focused on them. I'm not expecting them to pull a dark souls or sekiro completely, just take a page or two from them when it comes to making the combat more engaging. Whatever it takes to distance themselves from button mashing as much as possible.
@@ch1dd Aren't those the only 2 states possible though, they're either staggered or not staggered. I've never seen a game with a semi staggered state. Games where enemies are easily staggered pose no challenge (genshin mobs), while games with too high of stagger are frustrating (dark souls) or worse, they're damage sponges (genshin bosses).
What makes a game really engaging is skill expression, you see this in DmC combo videos, no damage runs in Dark Souls or perfect parries in Sekiro. This is the very same reason i find PGR fun, every character has their own mechanic that you have to learn (and some bosses have mechanics you have to learn). I just wonder if zzz has enough skill expression to warrant enjoyment or if it's another genshin, all style no substance. Mihoyo's track record makes me lean towards the latter.
Based on ZZZ CBT streams of other big name streamers, majority of the playerbase saw ZZZ as being a fresh take for the genre and is a "baby" that's why it's easy
But they don't know how much the game follows the footstep of Punishing Gray Raven.
It may be easy now, but once you get to endgame, they will slap you, pummel you, throw you, drag you across the room, throws you into orbit, then kicks you to space, and as you lose your breathing it will shoulderbash you down to earth (all of them have a microsecond of I-frame to dodge though, so if you're bad at i-frame/dodging, then you won't enjoy it fully)
Mtashed probably won't enjoy this as he found PGR "too difficult", the game in CBT just shows not its potential but what it offers. The same way HSR never became hard until they slammed Swarm Disaster
Or the way Genshin was never hard until they made difficulty tweaks and dps checks in floor 12
ZZZ mobs are dmg sponges and have i-frames themselves because the game expects you to be flexible enough to adapt to being defensive but not lacking on the offense.
MonHun, PGR, Souls-like players will definitely enjoy this.
And I will be one of those who will drop HSR for the sweaty playstyle of ZZZ to compensate downtime of content for Genshin (cuz the lore is just too good and I didnt invest 3 years of my life to not get to the end of the story) and HSR is more of a routine-type game, not for me since I like to be really engaged with my games, I love HSR, but I might drop it because the grind there is too straining and I'm feeling the burnout faster.
Star rail giving us more difficult content and i still can't pass swarm disaster 5 😢
to be fair, us ex-genshin players demanded harder content without realizing that it was supposed to be a playable anime. but yeah I agree, zzz looks amazing, im sad i didnt get access to the beta testing :/
also anyone know the name of the bgm?
There's like 8 different tracks. haha Tell me the time stamp and I'll go in Premiere and give you the track name.
@@Iyoverseminute 13, thanks for always having fire bgm man 👊😆
There is also a big elephant in the room in gacha games, part of the community of a certain happy game that was released in a very dark time, became too attached to it. Due to the state of the world and the game's theme, it ended up attracting a lot of lonely people, but now they can't have that game taken away from them, they will, even if unconsciously, try to bring down every other games, even games from the same company, to prevent the game they are strongly attached lose the headlights or eventually delay EOS, part of this community will criticize and speak badly of any new game. We can even go deeper with brand commitment/loyalty, the need for validation and stuff like that.
I do agree with the TV mode, It needs more combats. But you don't need to click to move with the mouse, you can just move with WASD or arrow keys. Corruption is only bad if you get up to 5, if you get about or more than 5, you get kicked out.
There's a lot of projection going on here. I get it, you like hard content, but don't pretend like there aren't a lot of people that keep harping on about harder content where it has no place. It happened in Genshin and Honkai too, and you didn't call those out ONCE in this video. At least be consistent.
There's entire games that have been ruined by people harping on and on about "more difficulty" only to end up breaking what was working.
As for the difficulty of the game, I don't really care either way. I'll check it out if I vibe with the mechanics, systems, progression speed, etc. I'll continue, if not, It's just another Gacha in the dozens of Gachas I've moved on from.
Yea that was the vibe I got from him too; there were some decent points, but there was still way too much projection going on for me to completely agree with him.
As someone who was mildly interested in the Genshin/Star Rail popularity boom, but couldn't get into them because the super-dainty-and-elegant character designs were not my thing, Zenless sounds like the cup of tea I've been waiting for. The Deadpool-like android, the delinquent banchō with a pile bunker drill arm, and the hulking fuck-off bear are showing the wilder variety in character design I've been wishing for in Mihoyo games.
The boss nerf is optional, for weekly bosses not world bosses, and only during the story quest, noone who wants endgame content is mad about it. It's just for people who are starting out, dont have great artifacts or teams, and wanna complete the later story quests. Idk where you got your information, but like, you could have at least checked the patch notes before putting it in your video. The endgame discussion isn't even about difficulty nearly as much as it's about resin gating and lack of diverse content. People consider Abyss to be _decently_ hard, depending on the abyss, but it's not really repeatable unless you just want to speedrun for it's own sake.
I'm not sure saying this game isn't for genshin players or starrail players is a completely accurate statement. There are plenty of other players who like a variety of different games and genres like yourself. I do agree this game should try to do its own thing though, having its own identity is very important.
3:57 i have to disagree with this one coach it’s most certainly the higher you get the more optimally invested you and not purely skill as said in the video but regardless great vid as always!
"This game is for people who want a challenge"
The number one complaint is that its trivially easy. People are making an assumption based on what they've experienced, you are making an assumption based on what you are hoping for. As it stands nothing reflects your position about this game being for people who want a challenge, because as of yet no challenge exists in this game.
The number one complaint is from people who have only invested 2hrs into the game. I know this because it was physically impossible for that many people (at the time of making this video) to have had that specific complaint AND be further than Ch1 in the game.
As of right now, I've watched everyone within Ch2 say it's easy, but get clapped by new enemies, bosses, etc. Well past that point is an extreme difficulty that NOBODY has access to from this beta or the previous one because no one has reached mid game yet. These complaints are coming from people playing the tutorial expecting to die frame 1. That's crazy to stand on.
@@Iyoverse We are now another day deeper, and it seems to be the most persistent complaint, still - the combat is too trivial. I appreciate your response, but I don't think it, as of yet, reflective of the reality of the current content available to us in the beta.
I'm still confused as to who "you" is referring to. Star Rail and Genshin are already very different games; it's not a surprise if ZZZ is also going to do something else. The main thing they have in common is that they're gacha games, and this is still going to be the same in ZZZ.
dont play cuz they nerf Nicole
Why are you referring the dodge and stagger check with big name like elden ring like it's a big thing ? Those things are not limited to those games only, I've played games 10 years ago that has the same thing. By no mean their combat is bad, it just feel so.. Basic. You have parry, you have , you have stagger value, you have flashy move for the casuals, you have some seemingly complex combat system to trick the hardcore into thinking that this game combat is complex. It's actually by design, they will make a game complex enough to make people feel like the game is having depth, but they will not make it too skill base just so that you can also pay 2 win for it. They did it with genshin, they did it with HSR, with this pattern I doubt they will not do the same with this game. I mean if you enjoy playing the game is totally fine, at the end of the day if you enjoy playing it's all that matter, you don't need to bring in big name here for comparison just to make this game feel like it's a genre changing phenomenon.
I get it, you love the game, then transfer than energy and attitude for your audience so they'll also love it like you do, but to keep bringing in souls game in here like it's relevant to this game or anything feel so weird. Because I've seen a lot of people jumping on the souls game hype train, soul-like game, etc.. just to make their game feel more impressive than it is.
Let not even starting with monster hunter in here, because what I've seen in the beta there is nothing like it at all, all the weapon in Monster hunter refer to a play style of its own, you can say each weapon is a different class, But I don't see that in ZZZ, you have normal/charge attack, a skill, a QTE skill, and a burst, very basic, the triggering condition for QTE almost the same, with maybe a little bit extra effect, skill and burst is basically, cool animation stuff with maybe some effect. In monster hunter, each weapon has their own move set and when I say move set I don't mean different in animation only, but a whole different playstyle you need to adapt to, like great sword with charging style, or insect glaive with jumping around, or charge blade with basically a parry master kind of play style,... in ZZZ, each character different is a skill animation, character model, different a little bit in stagger value and that's it, the gearing system here might play a big role to make their play style feel versatile and in future no doubt they'll add more to make game feel more versatile in play style, but that's just a speculation for the future base on what I hope it would be, last time I did that in genshin they turned the game into a shit hole, so unless I see them do it I will not make assumption, and my judgement only viable for this beta alone, And boi I hope I'm not wrong about their future because I do like to play such game.
There is nothing wrong to like a game and passionate about it, I'm also doing the same here, but to compare a small little mechanic one game has and compare it to some big name like Elden ring or Monster hunter to make the game feel more impressive feel very disingenuous.
As a guy who beat Lies of P recently, loves playing charge blade, plays multiple fighting game, whose favorite rpg is P5 and is lvl 70 in Star Rail.
This game is for me.
The list goes on but man I want to play this as badly as I want to play Hades 2.
I was excited for ZZZ initially because of how disappointing Genshin's endgame is, but so far, I haven't heard anything too great about the game. The initial image I had for it of a great "roguelike action game" is slowly fading away.
- The main story missions are now puzzles inside the TV instead of a roguelike, which is a red flag for the direction of the game IMO.
- Everybody complains about spending way too much time in that TV mode instead of combat.
- Just like you, people say the roguelike elements are meh. I think if the roguelike part was fundamentally good then it'd be fun right away, not "later in the game".
- The difficulty is unclear as you said, but at least so far I haven't seen anybody give strong examples of "good difficulty". Maybe it's just the fault of the beta's content, but even a game like Wuthering Waves showed a first boss that many people called a "good challenge". Meanwhile, with ZZZ everybody says they didn't have to think ever during combat.
- To my understanding, there's going to be something similar to artifact grinding hell here as well...
So, I dunno. With each CBT my hype for the game slowly dies off. At this point, I went from being hyped about the game to wanting proof that there's still something worth looking forward to.
As of now, I don‘t feel like ZZZ is going to appeal to me either but hey, I‘m cool with that. In fact I am glad that I can keep focusing on my current games. I will look up my favorite CC‘s playing it and refine my opinion, maybe it‘ll stay the same. I‘m mostly hooked up with HSR and R1999 currently. Some AK too.
Same here, I'm not sure if ZZZ will be for me. I'm glad for it as well, both because (like you) I can focus on other games, and also because Mihoyo pumps out quality games, so I'm happy they are diversifying with each one rather than just using the same formula.
Ofc ZZZ is not for your audience, it's 16+.
I will say right now, ZZZ definetly has room to become a difficult game if thats what people want, rouges as a genre can be scaled up or down easily and it wouldnt be hard at all to actually make difficult content with modifiers and buffs a debuffs you can obtain. I've played just about every rougelite and rougelike you can name and i can say osme of them DO actually start off pretty easy but later down the line it can get difficult, with this being a gacha I would like to see how they would go about insentavising you to actually pull for units if the game is actually really easy. I dont really mind it staying easy/power fantasy kinda as long as it feel good to do so and its not a chore to as to something like genshin like running around the map to collect beetles for 2 hours.
They can always go the pgr route where banner units have more dps, I-frames and hyperarmor along with time stop in their kit to incentivize more pulls. While more dps is perfectly fine, the rest they need to be very careful about.
but the biggest question is, will the devs actually make the game harder? looking at genshin and looking at the complains on ZZZ, they'll more likely make shit easier. it's clear mihoyo doesn't have a clear direction on what they want their games to be, genshin has the foundations of a meaningfully challenging game, it has elemental reaction based combat, artifacts, talents, stats etc. all those systems give the impression that you need to fully utilize those to get through future challenging content, at least that's the impression that gave us players initially since you usually don't build systems in a game and not use them because the game's so easy you don't need to use them but some players kept complaining and complaining it's too hard now genshin is braindead easy and all their systems and mechanics are going to waste because of that, they don't have a clear goal for the game, they build one thing and then do another instead of continually building on and improving a certain system.
and you got that right, genshin "end game" feels like a chore, running around collecting butterflies, popping balloons etc. because there's no actual end-game, like who but 5 year olds actually want to play a 90gb game collecting butterflies? it's not stimulating gameplay.
Yeah they probably will end up either keeping the difficutly the same or making it easier. Mihoyo is dead set on making a character building simulator game for some reason with no real content to build these units for@@f.b.l.9813
Just a Genshin player here, wishing for any form of harder content, being jealous of all the other hoyo games...
Yall are eating good
Why is this getting recommended to me zzz is LITERALLY the game I've been dreaming of for years
Just so you guys know on m&k you don’t need to click through the tv parts, you can just use wasd much like a controller.
16:36 literally me. I played Genshin before and it was not for me, but once I was given the chance to play the second beta for Zenless I fell in love with the game and played it non stop. ZZZ is the only Hoyo game I'll actually play, sink hours and money into. (BTW I 100% agree with the things you said in this vid.)
Zenless zone zero like darksouls?! lmao the AI is braindead, they just stand in there taking a beating.
It’s sad but I literally don’t have time if I’m playing their other games. Plus HoYo games are a commitment and I ain’t starting another
I don't know if u did zzz videos yet, but Imma binge watch that for sure instantly. Interesting video, really clear, and really well explained. Also really true.
If anyone's been playing HSR F2P since launch and can't clear MOC 5 it's not because it's too hard or they haven't spent, it's because they haven't been playing every day and actually working on their account, and if they don't play often then please stop trying to choose the direction for the game the rest of us actually play daily and enjoy.
I commend your takes here but, you are simply wrong about the audience. The primary audience, just like with HSR, is actually Genshin players because the pool of players is just that large and they are known to spend a metric fuck ton of money for their favorite characters. HSR is wildly popular and making a ton of money. Do you think it would ever be remotely as successful if Genshin was never made?
Genshin didn't just cater to a vast swath of action RPG gamers, or puzzlers/explorers, or story gamers... it created an entirely new subsection gamers. These gamers will give any new Hoyo game a solid chance to hook them. Just like Blizzard made "Blizzard gamers", Hoyo has made "Hoyo Gamers" and you'd better believe they are absolutely catering ZZZ to that audience.
poeple thought i was crazy leaving the nzxt sticker on the glass, glad to see that you also kept the sticker
Didn't get into the beta sadly(praying for a twitch drops event like for Star Rail CBT3) but I am super hyped for the game whenever I get to play it.
Please dont spend half the video apologizing. Just say your opinion and if people want to cry about it let them in the comments.
18:24 wasd moves tv mode on keyboard :3 tv mode has grown on me im vibin. :3 cant wait for its release
My only complaint is that actually, there's not much story in HSR to play if that's what I want.
Honestly I’m super hyped for zzz, it’s got rougelike elements, persona elements, fighting game elements, I think it’s dope as hell and everything I’m into
I agree that not every game is for me. I don't know if ZZZ will be for me, but I do plan to give it a try.
For reference (but not in any order) I play: Aether Gazer, Black Desert Online, Tower of Fantasy, Nikke, Genshin, Star Rail, Reverse 1999, and Path to Nowhere.
So I don't think targeting someone like me is worth it. I play anything that is good and catches my eye regardless of what people say on the internet about the game.