What’s Inside a Saginaw Power Steering Pump?
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- I recently had a Saginaw power steering pump failure on my #ETCGDadsTruck build. In this video I tear down the faulty pump to see what the issue was. If you’re curious about how one of these pumps comes apart, what damage to look for during inspection, and how to reassemble it, check out this video.
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I live in Saginaw. Back in the day I worked at the shop that made the pressure plate in that pump. I also worked at the former GM plant that used to make the pumps before they switched to EPS.
He just gets better and better. We come here for the knowledge, but we stay for the company. Thank goodness that there are still people like Eric in the world.
Thank you!
@@ericthecarguy You made it look so simple. Very articulate. Sub'd
Ah, I finally know what happened with the pulley. I hope the short time the distorted pulley was being used inside the truck did not cause much damage to the pump. Now, you have a better cooling system for the pump, as well. Thanks for the inside look into the bad pump. I'm sure you could rebuild the pump, but having a warranty really saves time and money. I was showing one of my sons, Gabriel, the process you used to determine the fault with your power steering. Mostly, I wanted to show him my interest in watching your videos and how I wanted to do my own repairs, once we get back to the States. His real interest is Architecture. So, there you go. I feel better now. Great job. Jeff
I grew up in Saginaw. And I spent many hours inside Saginaw Steering Gear where that pump was made. I watched those pump parts being machined, and the pumps being assembled on the assembly line. It was a very high volume operation. Of course they did not come from the factory with that pretty chrome plating, they were all black,
I currently work there (now called Nexteer Automotive) and there's not much hydraulic power steering manufacturing there now. Only for HD Trucks. It's switched over to high volume EPS.
I live there as well. My grandpa worked at steering gear.
So March Performance never got back to you on their F'D UP PULLEY ? SUMMIT IS AN OUTSTANDING COMPANY, THANKS SUMMIT ALSO.
Not exactly, but they did pass the buck to Summit.
@@ericthecarguy That's really sad. A company should repair their own defects. Or, perhaps they have a deal with Summit. Either way, I'm glad you're getting a good pulley.
@Jeff Kelley I got the parts from Summit is why they suggested it.
@@ericthecarguy Okay, I mistakenly took it from your description that March Performance was avoiding their responsibility. It makes sense for a consumer to return any part of their purchase to the supplier from which they purchased their main product. Thank you for the reply. So, why the big run-around, is what I am wondering. Although, you do not have to reply to this. I know you stand by Summit. Sometimes misunderstandings boil down to who greets you on the phone or at the counter. I used to be a manager in consumer electronics retail.
From AvE, I learned that pressure is created by volume + flow restriction.
Yep.... Called venturi
Pressure is created by stress upon a fluid. A flowing fluid when restricted will create a pressure in response to the restriction. But you can also create pressure on a fluid in a static cylinder by putting mechanical force on it. I.e. static vs dynamic pressure
I learnt it as a kid by putting my finger over the edge of the garden hose or taps in the house and then getting shouted at for the wet mess lol
Ah yes, the esteemed professor Uncle Bumblefuck
"There is a special tool for disassembling the pump" ... we call it 🔨 Hammer 😁
Very interesting vid! Thanks
Good to know what's inside a power steering pump. Never took one apart before. Thanks.
Yeah... it seems like an unusual failure mode and I agree the misalignment from the pulley is certainly a front runner for possible failure. Well done video Eric!
I have same issue. Happened after I did a minute long burnout I assume I over sped the pump.
Even with a good pulley, proper belt alignment on these pumps in critical. If alignment is out, the vanes are pulled into the front housing or pushed into the rear and wear out quickly like you saw here.
That WAS fun. Thanks for the tear down video!
8:00 did you put the stator ring in upside down? Looks like the 3 diamonds are facing down?
These pumps internally are the same as fitted to Holden Commodores albeit remote reservoir and a few less orings. Best way to get that rear cover on was to stick it in the press and use that and a big socket to hold it down whilst I wrangled that clip on. My first pump was a nightmare, they dislike high RPM, heat, etc so. You didn't remove any orings from the bore also to remove the stator ring, did it just slip past them(trying to gain insight into the design progression)?
Conveniently this general vane pump style only really leaks from that rear plate oring, $1-2 fix for most models. Enough to pass inspection.
Some interesting design notes, on the back of those black diecast bits(i think they're called manifold plates?) are 4 tiny pads which are surface ground first before doing the other side. Saves a lot of time and grinding wheels.
Wonder if you could rehone those faces with a sanding plate? Piece of thick glass and progressive grits, the spring could take up the slight reduction in height(which it does anyway, removes the tolerance stackup issues)
AWESOME VIDEO: MORE THAN ANYONE COULD WANT TO KNOW ABOUT THIS PUMP! VERY INTERESTING!! THANKS ERIC
Thanks Eric, you should make more videos like this.👍👍👍
Pressure in a hydraulic system is a result of resistance to flow.
Yep. :-) People think pumps make pressure. They don't. Pumps make flow. Pressure (as you said) is a resistance to that flow. Some fun facts.
Hydraulics is like electricity in most ways. Think of electrical current as flow, and voltage as pressure and will be clear. So, for pipes/wires, as the current/flow increases, so the pipe/wire must be bigger. As the pressure/voltage increase the pipe wall thickness/wire insulation must increase. For a constant flow/current, as the pressure/voltage increases, the resultant transmitted power also increase (and visa-versa)... Check valve = diode, pilot operated check valve = transistor (or relay), accumulator = capacitor, filter = inductor, flow restrictor = resistor, intensifier = transformer (sort of), pump = battery... Fun!
Flow control valve is adjustable and is key to pressure output. Washers under nut- add/subtract.
Love your videos my mechanical time was back when you actually rebuilt your wheel cylinders , starters and alternators instead of the throw away society we live in now...lol Great learning what was inside the power steering pump never had one apart before.
Thanks for this video...now I know what I did wrong...
I put the spring in second not first...
Same design pump as is in the 700R4/4L60 transmissions. Wonder if they use the same veins?
Hi Eric
These kind of pumps never fails it last long.. only you need to use fine emery paper to flatten that groove you noticed with ur finger n clean entire the parts with kerosene or petrol gasoline and pay attention to the screen filter and pressure control valve and its spring both of these should be cleaned deeply n nicely , and thats all you have done.. don't forget to use Vaseline jell to make your work much easier.. nevermind of the wearing its normal.. thanks
I remember when these lasted forever but someone local has one of the newer style and I don't know what's different but they don't last as long. Huge pain to R&R the pulley either way but still not that hard. Usually the life of the pump is good fluid and not continuing to use old worn out hoses. The hoses deteriorate inside and then contaminate the pump and then the seal fails and then if it's not caught you need a new pump. It's a lot of patience and a few hail Marys to put those back together. Just buy another one.
I've just rebuilt the power steering pump on my 1991 Jaguar Sovereign XJ40 and while the outside of the casing is different, with a remote reservoir, the inside is exactly the same.
Thank you Eric I always enjoy your videos I am from South Africa
Hello South Africa!
The last i saw you was when you were looking into a new shop. then youtube canceled my subscription. at least that is what i figured out.
Very good information, but I was wondering why rhere are two input lines lower preassure
I’m from Saginaw Michigan where steering gear is. Or as it’s called today Nexteer
Eric, I am wondering if the thinning of the fluid due to overheating may have contributed to this failure. What is the maximum temperature rating for a power steering fluid? Since the back plate is just spring-loaded maybe you could help it by removing a bit of that scoring with some stone. Btw, I enjoy these disassembly videos the most cause I believe understanding how it works and what's inside is the key to the success....
The fluid seemed to run about 170º before I installed the cooler. I don't think that was excessive. See last weeks video linked in the description. I think the bent pulley was the root cause.
In my experience, there is no fixing machined parts with sanding or filing by hand.
I just wondering if you could smooth everything up again and make sure it's flat and smooth it would work again Maybe
I'm with you if all surfaces were re machined it would probably be fine.
I'm thinking about using a Saginaw pump as a dry sump oil pump for a remote turbo setup so thanks . I'm not so much worried about the pressure/gallons but if the housing/pump can handle oil well compared to ps fluid.
Eric, great video man, it was cool seeing just how a Saginaw pump works and what went wrong with your. One question though?
I know you recently got rid of your mustang parts car but, I’m wondering if you can do a similar video of a ford pump if you still have one?
I’m curious as I would guess many others are about the 80’s and early to mid 90’s pumps that all at one time or another would have the known to ford owners as the power steering pump wining!
I feel lucky because all of my vehicles, 85 Mercury Grand Marquis LS, 86 Mercury Grand Marquis GS, 84 Ford F-150, 85 Ford F-250 and a 91 Ford F-150 with different engine but, all use the same damn power steering pump.
The only reason I’ve replaced 2 of them was the one pump was growling under pressure and the other just started doing something similar to yours it would get hard to steer after the system got hot.
I think that’d be another cool video if you have one from a car or truck sitting on a shelf or from a junk pile!
I don't have any of those pumps. Remember I fitted a Saginaw onto the Fairmont, the same pump as the one in this video. Truthfully, most power steering pumps look very similar on the inside and the fix is the same, replace the pump. Thanks for the comment.
I have a power steering pump that whines during the winter when it's cold until it warms up on my 2007 4.0L V6 Mustang. It has done this for 7 years but it still continues to work just fine. I guess it just doesn't like the cold. 😄
Try synthetic fluid.
What matters in this equation is the factory type of fluid recommended by the OEM.
Example: Originally Ford used standard power steering fluid but later for 80-93 Ford vehicles from the factory were recommended by ford to use (Type F) transmission fluid (not power steering fluid) in their power steering system. Later in TSB’s (technician service bulletins) They reprinted their service Manuals to include this change, I don’t remember the year they did this but it was in the mid 90’s!
They did this due to the fact that Type F trans fluid has a higher viscosity than power steering fluid (which at the time was glorified machine oil) and it quieted the classic Ford Power Steering wining to a minimum.
Ford updated their recommendation to the use of (Dexron II - III / Mercon III - IV) in their power steering systems because the use of different detergents in the fluid made the systems live longer and cleaner. They also reprinted all Factory Service Manuals to change/update the power steering fluid specifications.
That said, they came back again in the late 90’s to include a power steering fluid in the newer power steering systems particularly 98 and later systems to use again (power steering fluid) which by now is a thinner Hydraulic fluid that works better than transmission fluid but is severely dependent on included internal filters in the lines and proper fluid changing intervals.
Though even today on the old 80-93 power steering pumps it’s still recommended to use Dexron II - III / Mercon III - IV, if you use newer fluid in a old system even if it’s a reman or new pump it will destroy itself over time and the same goes for using older fluid types in newer systems as well.
I don’t know why except that I’ve tried it and it’s the truth and they do fail if the wrong fluid is used but, if you use synthetic fluids it still has to be similar to the recommended fluid for accurate viscosity and life of the pumps.
I’m not a fluid God but, I’ve tried them and this is what I’ve found, I don’t know about GM, MOPAR, Honda or any other manufactures for that matter. I’m a Ford guy and that’s what I know is Fords.
Personally I’ve used Dexron III in my vehicles for 20+ years with no failures except a pump just wearing out. My results are from working on all ford vehicles over the years and this is what I’ve found and see in action at the shop!
However, I’ve never opened a pump to diagnose what failed, if they broke I replaced them it’s that simple.
But Eric disassembling the pump was cool just to know what actually happens when a Saginaw pump typically fails.
This is the reason I asked about the disassembly of a older 80-93 Ford pump because I’ve wanted to know for years how exactly they fail?
At Ford warranty doesn’t pay for pump disassembly and customers out of warranty don’t want to pay the shop hourly rate either just to know what happened.
Both Ford and the customer only care about it being fixed in a timely manner as cheaply as possible too, trust that 100%!!!
Great video Eric. Thank you.
They could’ve gotten past all that by adding two wear plates like almost all industrial vane pumps use. Just replace the plates and you’re good to go.
In the case that scoring was caused by grit, it may have damaged the box as well. They have tighter tolerance than the pumps do.
Hmm I like that chrome or whatever finish on that pump. Like have that on my 85 s10 2.8 would go really well with my chevy orange block and black pulleys 😮
Link in the description.
Chrome
Don’t
Get
You
Home
I had a rebuilt ps pump.installed in my honda from the dealer. I had a problem with random loss of power steering. Even almost crashed. Went back to the shop and got another pump installed. Lol.
Is the shaft ok if it moves in and out just a tiny bit? Isn't it normal to have in and out play. Thanks...
You could of lapped the pressure plate, cam ring and rotor to get rid of the scoring. All you need is ten bucks of valve grinding compound a micrometer to measure and a sheet of glass. I pinched my lapping glass out of a picture frame when the Mrs wasn’t home, she still hasn’t noticed.
Yup, that thing was fried! Cool vid! Now I want to go digging through my junk pile & strip 1 apart... purely for the science of course! (Not because I like tearing things apart or anything).
Superb video!
Thank you
@Ericthecarguy Who's that guy in blue, dancing in the background at the end of the video ? Looks cool lol
ruclips.net/video/TC3_Si21OkA/видео.html
Hello Eric, I just picked up a 1988 460 EFI it appears to have a Sag. pump would you think it has a restrictor
I wonder if it could be re-machined again to take that damage out?
Possibly but I don't think it would be worth the effort. Remember the vein assembly also had scoring.
I would think you’d have to also replace the vanes to account for the removed material.
@@jeffleach2668 I think u would machine it with the vanes inside the puck, hose lamp around it or zip tie and a belt sander, my guess
Would a bad pump cause my line to blow off and puke out all the fluid ?
Hey Eric I just purchased a Saginaw pump and installed it on my car it is a key way shaft with the Nilon nut the bolts the pulley on and I noticed it had around 1/8 play in and out, is this normal?
Etcg does AvE...
Love it
Was thinking of using dexron6 or redline d4 I switched to psf but original fluid looked red but very dirty I'm getting some noise now (bled air also) think of using atf any suggestions?
good afternoon I have a problem with the steering pump it is a 2006 silverado vortec 5.3 you hear a permanent noise it seems that it brings a cat inside hahaha what can I do to eliminate that noise?
My pump sqeals at full lock. Kinda sounds like a turkey call. It's not the belt slipping it's from the pump itself. Any ideas? Still plenty of power for turning. No problem there.
Try synthetic fluid.
You should have installed Electric power steering........(:
Happy Friday!
ruclips.net/video/aqqQOnI1QUE/видео.html
@@ericthecarguy Another excellent video. I'm happy you preserved the hydraulic steering of Dad's Truck. There are still a lot of vehicles that use those systems.
@@ericthecarguy Dude they don't read and they don't listen very well.
Interesting makes me wonder what's inside a steering box
I have one of these, i run type f atf....😅
Its sad that shiny chromed product fails
Actually it's more likely to fail in my view. Chrome holds in heat. Excessive heat is not the best thing for mechanical parts.
I recently rebuilt mine on 77 c10. It cost me under $20.
Omg haven’t seen those since the military started to faze those out.
What the power steering pump he has? They're on almost every older vehicle.
so was it Bering material that scraped the surfaces?
No, I suspect it was the misaligned pulley causing vibrations in the drive shaft.
@@ericthecarguy ah yes i watched the rest of the video ..lol should have asked at the end ..lol
@@ericthecarguy i swear anything chrome plated is designed to fail so we can drop more cash down.
That was interesting ...
As crazy as it sounds it looks like the power steering pump on my ford tractor.
These are universal pumps. They were used on many different makes and models.
What’s a Saginaw?
Saginaw deez nutz.
Not sure if that works.
i guess it was manufactured in Saginaw, Michigan, that's probably why its called Saginaw
I would send them the video and make them warranty it...
I put an o-ring in a leaky Ford pump one time out of necessity. Didn't mean to.
Ford pumps weren’t worth a $1 o-ring.
👍🏽
Man your beauty
Heh-heh, heh. You said Ball.
I'ts a nice accessible design, not closed for life.
Shame it got damaged :-(.
Hopefully the new pulley solves it.
@@ericthecarguy Ill keep my fingers And toes crossed ha ha ;-D
Why dose a pump need to be so shiny and chrome ? ; )
It doesn't. I got it as part of the accessory drive kit for my engine. It was the easiest solution to the problem. I built the truck, including the engine, suspension, brakes, differential, and custom instrument cluster in 5 months.
No gloves ??
Hi Eric, maybe I've already asked, but anyway. Don't you have relative called Tracy who works in LinkedIn? I have a co-worker with same last name and who has some face similarities... You can ignore that question, I won't ask again.
Not to my knowledge.
@@ericthecarguy thanks for reply, Eric
Eric i haber a Honda Civic shake a Lot the code is P0301
Misfire cylinder 1. Check spark plug, fuel injector, compression.
hydraulic power steering is horse shit. one scored surface and the entire assembly needs to be replaced... wtf. and like 50 parts just for one pump... i miss my 90s civic with rack and pinion and no ABS brakes
Is no one else cringing as he bangs away on a chrome pump on a steel table?
You didn’t say be safe stay dirty 🤷🏼♂️
I know, I forgot this time.
So your Sainaw needs Wankle Apex seals.
No. I believe it was the pump surfaces that were leaking not the veins.
Wtf Probably should not skip minutes in between so we know what to do. Just a thought dude.
😮🎉❤
Personally, I would have planed the plate.shave .002 off and polish. If it doesn't work...no loss.
Except for if it's under warranty!
What's inside? Power of course.
I'll show myself out.
Cool😎I never took a power steering pump apart before👍
some aftermarket pumps of that kind come without the reservoir and you have to disassemble them to switch it over, personally i hate those ones.
Me too!
the vibration from the bad pulley killed you pump :(
Dude you Rock!
Some days I forget how fun it is to disassemble things for fun and info..
Cool, always wondered how power steering pumps worked. My car uses an electric one, I asume that instead of being driven by a pulley, it's driven by an independant electric motor. Really tight tolerances there, no wonder it failed due to the faulty pulley. I hope none of that metal shavings went to the rack though.
Great video Eric, as usual! 👍🏼🙂
Great video. I used to rebuild these on some of my old Chevys, but I used this as a refresher course. You showed / mentioned a few things I had forgotten (getting old!), so I'm glad I did. Rebuilding the pump on my 2006 LBZ and can't afford mistakes. It was working fine, just leaking at the shaft seal, so a rebuild kit should do the trick.
for that power steering pump, seal kits are available for very cheep (28401490 is $18.99 at O'Reilly auto parts at the time of this comment) and the most common failure for that pump is the seal on that plate with the clip you removed with a punch. That seal separates the high pressure side from the low pressure side.
That valve that you took apart is also available for around $38 for an oem acdelco part
also, instead of 2 c-clamps, use a vice or arbor press, it's much easier
I was fully expecting that snap ring to fly out into a low earth orbit.
If it was one of us doing that it definitely would've shot out.
I just took one of these apart for my 1998 K1500. I discovered that you shouldn't use the hammer method to put the pump back in the reservoir. I accidentally tore the o-ring doing it that way. Instead, just gently pull the two together using the two nuts on the back. Just alternate between each one to evenly pull the pump and reservoir together. For me, I used a deep impact socket and just twisted the socket with my hand, no ratchet or wrench, and use the socket to hand tighten each bolt. Going about a half turn on each nut alternating back and forth.
I was concerned that would warp the case. Another reason I put the bolts in during assembly was also to keep the 'o' rings from coming loose. Thanks for your comment.
@@ericthecarguy I was worried about that too, that's why I just twisted the socket with my hand instead of using a ratchet or wrench. It actually took very little force to get the two to come together.
I like your vids keep them coming. 😊
You wouldn't believe how hard it is to get a good replacement pump these days. I've had 3 of this exact style pump from different manufacturers (including acdelco) be bad out of the box or within 50 miles and several other ford styles as well. In both cases wound up resealing a used original (dodge or gm) part and have no trouble. Aftermarket steering parts overall seem to be generally terrible these days.
I love automotive autopsies. 👍
Great video. Since that spring takes up tolerance, I'm going to try to resurface the wear faces on the mill just to see if it will fix one!
Remanned by cardont!
Saginaw is a city in Szechuan province, it may be tough to get parts :)
That scoring was most likely caused by the pump ingesting debris such as metal chips and dirt. I recommend flushing the lines and rack before installing your new pump. Had the pulley been the culprit, I would think that it would have caused a bearing failure or bent the shaft.
Had one of these on my P30 motorhome. I pulled it apart and smoothed the pump surfaces on some emerycloth on glass. Smoothed the vein edges the same way. Then, replaced the orings and cleaned everything. Pump was was $900 new from dealer. Got a rebuild kit from local Carquest about $30. Still worked with no leaks after 50k miles. If the spring has no pressure when you remove it then the pump is worthless, don't bother trying to rebuild. the spring keeps the receiver plate tight against the veins.
Curiosity killed the cat lol. Its good to see how these things work also if it was an old vehicle I suspect it would be possible to re-engineer it. I enjoyed watching this pump come apart and finding how it works
Good job
Thanks for sharing. Stay Safe.
I resealed mine and also replaced the sleeve around the shaft. Put it all back together and now the pulley won’t rotate. I messed something up..
i rebuilt really lot of those pump saguna in the 80,i was a rebuilder you can get biger rotor and stator for more presure ,but often the low presure issue is cause by valve sticking or crack at that small hole were you remove the clip of cover of the stator or wrong fluid... in the 80 all those part were available at ford
Hi Eric I got yearly pumped watching this ,good to see the workings , i’m just about to flush my civic power steering yes I did listen to you Honda fluid only it’s to hot up here in Toronto 34c do later thanks .
I had a van a few years ago with a noisy power steering pump. One day the power steering completely failed and there was no power steering at all. I took the pump apart and found that the spline was stripped on the shaft inside the pump.