Is the new DCS 2.9 VOIP any good??
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- Опубликовано: 23 окт 2023
- In the following video I explore the new DCS 2.9 patch primarily taking a look at the new version of EDs VOIP implementation. Is it any good? Let's find out!
I was joined by Tuuvas to help me out with the majority of the testing, along side of OperatorDrewski at some point. Thank you both for your help!
Their channels can be found here:
/ @tuuvas
/ @operatordrewski
Wags VOIP tutorial video here:
• DCS Voice Chat 2.9 Tut...
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I stream from time to time at:
/ ralfidude
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Twitter: / ralfidude
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Игры
Thank you for the epic and instructional vid, ralfidad
gosh darn it you made me horny again
average 35 year old texan
im sorry dad i didnt mean it
@@mnamescole first of all, he is canadian. Second, as far as i know he is not even close to 35. Drewski, we are waiting new dsc cideo with ralfi.
🤓🤓@@artyomanurov1892
AM/FM cutout characteristics should be different. IRL the FM will cut off much more sharply, AM will slowly fade.
I think you mean Analog vs Digital radio. Analog fades out and becomes more static while digital just drops off.
@@dapwn3ritswatido Nope, I mean the dirrefence between amplitude modulation and frequency modulation. Due to the way it works, FM maintains higher quality with lower SNR (since it really doesn't depend on the amplitude), but demodulaiton fails quite suddenly.
AM keeps getting more noisy, but can be demodulated even when the signal to noise ration is quite low. That's why it's still used in communications and radio stations.
Also AM allows multiple transmitters on the same frequency (that’s why ATC is AM). FM, if some one acedently left ptt pushed, that person basically breaks Chan for everyone
@@NikitaShirokov I've also seen that vid, people in the comments say that it doesn't work that well IRL
@@MBkufel Isnt it basically higher amplitudes reach slightly below hills opposite of transmission but at a cost of clarity, Im sure its possible if you descend quick enough youll hit the dead zone for the signal directly behind a hill and it will cut out sharply regardless of transmission type.
If you transmit the same time as someone else, the two transmitting won't know. Only outside listeners will hear the squall of two people transmitting. When you PTT it cuts off any receiving.
Yup. Pretty sure it's working as intended.
@@NobbsAndVageneyup, that’s how that works IRL. Checked into an approach a couple weeks ago and they didn’t respond for a couple minutes. Someone else had checked in at the same time, so I just waited my turn.
It’s a balance of being respectful to those already speaking but also being assertive when cramming in to find a spot on the chatter.
Yeah, unless the radio has dual transievers in it, so it can keep listening while using the other to transmit. I'm not sure if any of the radios in these aircraft have it, but I know that most of the radios I have experience with don't.
Also FM radios squeal, IIRC AM radios you can read both signals (though the closer transmitter will be louder…)
Yep, this is the correct response. I've had experience with both aircraft and standard military radios. The two people trying to talk at the same time won't hear that they stepped on someone else unless they hear that other person for a brief moment as they're about to step on and cut themselves off.
From my experience IRL with radio (emergency services) cutoff can be sharp or faded, depending heavily on type of frequ and transmission types
I wonder if it’s also how they’re flying. Even an A-10 is much faster than most civilian stuff and he was flying very close to the ground. Intermittent cutoff are probably when you’re not so close to terrain I’m guessing.
I’m going down the Columbia river gorge next week so I’ll listen to Troutdale at the edge of the gorge on the way back to see if it’s more rapid a cutoff.
Aren't these radios using digital as well? They would have to be for any sort of encryption. I doubt you would get much of a fade with any digital signal as it either works or it doesn't.
@@bare-footjo35that's not really how it works.
@@jacobbaumgardner3406 Yeah, I'm simplifying a lot. These radios would definitly have analog as well (AM, FM, SSB, etc.) which may fade instead of cut off. There is atmospheric and other reflections that can provide better signal or screw up your SNR. Frequency shifting may be a concern? Also digital modes have some ability to error correct. However, my assertion of digital should just cut off and not fade (though probably cut in and out) is accurate right, or am I missing something?
@@bare-footjo35 no, I just didn’t understand what you meant. I’m not that knowledgeable, I just use plane radios, and trust they work (and obviously know what to do when they fail. . .I hope).
Dear Ralfidude, many thanks indeed for your in depth video. We are still quite early in the development of this radio system and feedback such as your video highly appreciated. Onwards and upwards! Many thanks and kind regards Nick
I see ED's VOIP as the first baby steps into a rich comms application that goes far beyond just the aircraft but also into so many other areas such as LSO's and JTAC operators on the ground. So it looks promising and if you think back SRS has come a long way too. thanks for the explanations to a lot of new information!
I was thinking of the potential fun from ED using technology to make dynamic comms audio for stuff like JTAC. Maybe someday something like AI could by used for dynamic AI JTAC that can actually describe their situation and talk you onto the target without having to have it scripted by the mission creator.
DCS is really good at baby steps into a rich application only to drop development after a year.
@@TheSlovenlyTactician I disagree, there is a lot being done behind the scenes that the public never sees and just because they don't move ahead in our time frame, is not surprising. Now there is more and more competition and ED has decided to get off their butts and carry on but they lost a lot of ground. They are making steady progress but they have a long way to go.
@@aaronwhite1786 That's what I was thinking too, there are plenty of things that are getting opened up now, and the future is bright.
@@TheSlovenlyTactician I don't know that I would agree with that. I think the biggest issue is that DCS is just so all-encompassing. There's so much to account for, but one thing they've really been showing a focus on lately is changes that are to the core of the game itself and will improve things for everyone and all modules.
Previously, a lot of stuff was done x or y way depending on the developer. Heatblur was making their own radar, developers had their own multicrew, and it was largely due to the way at the time that ED didn't really have those features baked into the core game/engine.
These new changes to things like FLIR, radios, radar, etc are all things that look to be building a strong foundation to continue improving on that will take that extra workload off of the 3rd party developers, so they can focus on making modules that just plug into an already solid system and world.
It's slow, but I think 2.9 is just another example of the team at ED providing solid progress, even if it feels like it stalls out at times.
I think the biggest issue is that you're stuck in this niche market where you need to keep making money, so you've got to keep modules flowing, while also working to add features and update old ones, so it can definitely feel like things are forgotten, but I think it's just a case of slow progress because of the wide focus of the game.
i think the most important feature will be 3rd party compatibility.
Once they add that, servers will start piling over to VOIP, and the need for SRS will be gone.
And headless mode for ATC/GCI, though I assume you thought of that as part of it.
@tomaszwota1465 i did ask about that feature on the video (on Wags channel) and they say "it is planed". I guess it will be available sometime between 2 weeks and 2030
Nice video and clear instructions
Wow, everyone! What do you know?!?
It seems both Ralfi and Tricker are still alive! 😁 Yeeeey! 🎉🎉😉
(Hi there, Tricker!)
@@PappaBear_yt🎉🎉🎉🎉
My favorite morning radio show Ralfi & Tuuvas in the Mornings News and Traffic.
I love that the aircraft sounds are mixed with the radio. I wonder how'd you do that for a sim like MSFS
It's just for appeal though. You don't hear it over transmissions IRL
@@RedTail1-1yeah I thought that was a strange choice considering you’d really only hear it with your mask off.
I'm a real F-23 pilot and you can definitely hear the engine sounds in real life.
@@CAL1MBO There is no way in the world your a active F-23 Pilot, so please don't lie just to seem cool.
@@pastamarter6084R/whoosh
And the gods blessed us with a ralfidude video
I wonder what needs to happen to bring back Laobi though...
Thanks for the work and the explanations 👍
ED just needs pay CriBob to do the VOIP programming and bring him on staff for all the wonderful work he has done for the community.
...and have him familiarize with the DCS internal netcode, audio system and IP4 and IP6 TURN protocol etc.
Once he is up to speed in 1-2 years he can start migrating SRS to DCS or better start from scratch... Sounds like a plan. 😂
That actually might still be faster than ED trying to reach same level of functionalities :D @@shagrat47
lmaoooo
found your channel from operator drewski and had to sub. you make insanely good DCS content man, right up there with growling sidewinder imo :)
Sooo cool! Another cool thing to have would be squelch trails to add to the effect
The engine sounds transmitted over comms are enormously kino
I'm happy to see an in-game option and although the functionality isn't fully featured or bug free yet, it seems like a good start.
I'm definitely going to stick to SRS for now, but this does look pretty impressive already and I'm looking forward to when they've worked out some of the issues shown in this video and added a few more features
The most impressive part is, that it is part of the DCS installation, does not break or interfere with export scripts settings, does not need another application window on top of DCS and has a lobby that hopefully allows to circumvent Discord, Teamspeak and Co. in the future.
If it just works Out-of-the-box, after a little polishing I can happily live without "100% true to life" filters and effects. 😊
It will be improved.
But what we need is a dedicated radio executable to connect non-DCS players (LotATC) to the comms. Or at least have possibility do it in the main menu without connecting to game further to server.
So server browser + VoIP as dedicated executable, and then the "rooms" makes more sense....
I really like the way the audio sounds. I don't know if it's random cut outs or what, but it all sounds really cool when it's working. I also like stuff like the helicopter sound in the background. It'll definitely add a nice level of immersion.
nice video, thanks for taking the time to make it..
Oh man, this is some serious Sierra Hotel! Can't wait for it to be the new standard! Awesome video man, keep 'em coming!
Great video thanks, it took ED 2 years from the initial VOIP release to this release now, so given the track record it will maybe take another 2 years to get it close to the SRS std we have now, theres a lot of other items that need fixing and updating.
I love the way it sounds. When (not if) they fix the cutouts, bugs, etc, it will replace srs for me surely.
Honestly I've been using the DCS VOIP since they first released it without radio sounds and its worked fine AND I was able to communicate with people using SRS. Glad a lot more mainstream channels are finally starting to make video's on it, it was a headache trying to explain this shit via chat lol, but also surprising how few othe players even tried it.
briliant work, six features I like in SRS which I like to see in ED's VOIP are:
1. Encryption match with cockpit setting
2. Mic Output
3. Recording feature
4. AWACS Overlay
5. Show players Name/
6. Propper LOS
Daddy Waggy
Thank you for showing the actual voice chatter! :) Missed that from Wags earlier. Are there any actual multi player servers (like "known" servers) out there that encourage internal VOIP over SRS? Buddyspike etc. mostly employ SRS still.
ED missed the mark with VC by inches! It works great for flying players but doesn't allow support (at least for now) for those who enjoy playing ATC/GCI/AWACS via say LotATC without DCS running in the background
They didn't miss it, they just haven't finished it. They themselves say it's work in progress, and not complete.
im shooked you dont have millions of subscribers. ralfi you my favorite DCS youtuber.
I think its awesome not to need 3rd party apps for one of the most important aspect in joint or multi-player activities. I hope DCS continues to advance their development in radio comms. Good video bro, thank you.
Good call on the FC3 radio bindings. I think what I'll have to do is map my throttle coms switch to also trigger some Vjoy buttons (with Joystick Gremlin), so I get two buttons for the price of one.
really looking forward to how this progresses! The features are really good and should really improve communication! It's just too damn buggy atm.
You saved my life Ralfi thx bro
Still a rookie in this game
Very very helpful video. Respect to Ciribob for putting together SRS but have been waiting for ED to have their own comms system since the beginning. When a player is trying to put together a awesome flight sim pc with all the bells and whistles along comes the long list of programs running in the background and it would be nice to see a few of them go away.
Keyboard lighting/macro software, Tobii eye or Track IR, game glass, shadow play or geforce experience, discord, device profiling software... the list goes on. If at all possible I will knock any of these off the long list. I won't use the TM profiling software for the warthog, same with Logitech software for my X52 and input directly into DCS. Interesting side note: Have been playing Star Citizen for years now and on my second pc I didn't have my tobii or track ir connected but I did have a camera so I saw in the options in Star Citizen that you could use your camera for head tracking and bingo it worked great with no extra software needed to be running in the background. Point: If huge developers like ED and CIG can nail down camera head tracking, comms, multi screen displays (including touch screen tablets) "In game" there won't be a need for all this bloat software which will release more resources to fps or quality of the game.
Hi Ralfi, we love you!
Thanx!!
Helloooooooo
Edit: 25:40 FAST AND FUERIOUSS!!!
Interesting listening to the different cut off. We have the same with firefighting radios. The old analog radios will just have alot of static while the new digital radios work great until the cut out sharply
From your description, it seems like encryption is working the same way as normal radios "sub-tones" work. You can only hear the persons on the same sub-tone. We use this a lot in airsoft because in PMR (the public, no license required frequencies ("channel"), theres only 8 frequencies you can use, but if you add sub-tones, you can add like 20 ish sub-tones to each "channel". Effectively, giving you hundreds of "sub-chatrooms".
A limitation if i am not mistaken is: any one without a sub-tone can hear ALL sub-tones but no one can hear him and same restrictions of talking over one another apply (ish), where if someone talks over someone else, who ever has the strongest signal overrides the first one or both get garbled, even in different sub-tones, if they are very close to each other (please correct me if i got anything wrong).
Nother ralfi vid another happy day
your dcs looks awesome, especially the threes. im wondering what settings u are using. any colour grading?
He put in the video itself he uses ReShade
W 0 dislikes, seriously nothing to dislike about you, your just simply the GOAT
The engine noise while transmitting is pretty neat. I can be sold on the ingame voip instead of srs over this alone. Would be nice if they fixed the engine sound changing at higher RPM. While they're at it. Include the gun sounds. This would be nice as the Hog is going in hot. Or in an Apache; hearing the gun rattle as the CPG calls in guns hot.
He’s back!!!!
Listening to what you presented, it sounds pretty good. I know I have a similar settings for SRS, but it did sound more realistic, which I like. There should be some challenges with reception like a real radio. This is still in a beta state, so I think it will improve for sure. One thing I don't understand, is how do you tell if voice chat is enabled for a server? Do you have to try it first and would there be a case where both SRS and VC are on? I know it's all fairly new, so maybe all that gets ironed out later.
You can't bring up the voip menu if it isn't enabled in the server
Pretty cool update. Hopefully servers will start using it.
Can't speak about aircraft radios. But on my boat the VHF radio has something called a "squelch" control that cuts off received transmissions below a certain signal strength. The threshold is adjustable. So sudden cutoff isn't necessarily a problem, provided you can hear some degree of degradation first.
Aircraft radios generally have adjustable squelch as well. And yeah, you should hear signal quality degrade. Theoretically if you left the squelch open, w/ an analogue signal you should be able to hear it fade to background noise (static) w/ distance and obstacles. Digital modes are different, but generally you’ll still get some reduction in quality before the receiver can’t make sense of the stream.
the 0:16 humpping always makes me laugh at the bombs trying to copulate with the ground
Nice video, thanks. The FC3 keybind collision really is disappointing. I wonder what ED’s thinking on this is.
I like it, it’s hard to even get people on Discord on many servers and my best experiences are always with other players. It’s the whole reason I play MP exclusively. I want this to be something that’s seamless and easy to use for everyone, as a learning curve just to talk to people isn’t ideal. For instance, people sometimes just don’t know that many binds exist, so a clickable thing for chat and voice menu would be an improvement I want them to make.
My experience is quite the same as yours. Voip is sounding great and „behaves“ more realistic than SRS (in terms of sounding, background noise and usability). But it is currently unreliable. When we tested it with different number of pilots we saw the same issues as many other users, like not showing up on the chat list as well as not being able to transmit but hear everything….this happens completely randomly so that it is not trackable if it is caused by certain hardware or are root causes.
Yes! We’ve been fighting these issues in my group since the in game VOIP system first launched!
@@elbutchioMeanwhile I saw in the forums that those issues existed already before 2.9 - this is a bit disappointing. Especially as the Voip radios are really good and realistic. But I hoped that those issues are new. Seems not.
One thing for me is that I don't have a lot of extra buttons on my T16 because I have so many things mapped to every aircraft. I had one button to transmit on SRS and then I used 2 keys on my keyboard to switch through the radios. I would have to start consuming other buttons or change my maps so my VOIP buttons would make sense.
same thing here - looks like it's finally time to set one of the buttons as a modifier
New Ralfi vid! 😁
the P-51 radio sounds very similar to what it sounds like to fly my little 172. Lots of static, engine encroaching just a smidge, almost a thing you have to train to understand. Hell knows I had a hard time understanding radio calls for my first couple flights.
HeatBlur are absolute kings for that…
I was assigning a switch as a modifier, so that I can use the same buttons for VoIP and the comms menu, but HB have gone above and beyond as usual.
But for helicopters w/ radio on the trigger, that may not work.
No idea if it works the same but in the police, we use encryption to make sure that only people with encryption keys can hear what people say. So in aviation I think you'd turn that on so that the other team can't hear your radio comms.
Based on my (*very* limited) knowledge of real aircraft radios, I think there should be a single PTT button to transmit, then you select which radio you want to transmit on either in-aircraft or on the radio menu on screen. Also options to transmit + receive, or receive only. That is how it works in most civilian aircraft as far as I know, but I’m not so sure about military.
this video perfectly illustrates why i think SRS is better. The control bindings are just not flexible enough with ED voip. I personally only have 2 binds available for PTT and they are the same in every single aircraft but i am still able to use as many different radio as i want.
18:00 In some radios in SRS you even hear the radio ping-ponging between the different voices as a third party when two people step on each other.
The ED VOIP has some definite potential, but there's some key features that they need - third-party compatibility, out-of-sim interfaces, plus the "stepping-on-each-other" tone particularly - before I forsee any major servers switching from SRS.
For now, on big servers srs, on training and coop group flights will use in game comms
i like it ---- i think it will eventually displace SRS
but yeah they gotta work out the kinks
Having a single thumb button dedicated for PTT, and two others for next/previous radio, has spoiled me with SRS...
However, that being said, I like the module specific background sounds and different radios having their own qualities. (this also makes me VERY curious how the Huey radios sound!)
But in the real thing you have three methods depending plane:
PTT button for radio and ICS depending press depth.
(On)Off(On) hat for two radios
4-way or even 5-way hat for four radio frequencies and ICS.
So one doesn't need to switch radios, just press PTT to wanted direction and talk.
That is what I as well like in Soviet radios that they radio knob is so easy to turn and you set wanted channel without playing frequency. It becomes quick and easy.
But then as well I love the western UFC radio knobs like in Harrier, push/pull and scroll channels...
You really don't need more than 2-3 radios (incl.ICS) for most part.
This is as well what I love in Mi-8 that is sadly not properly simulated, but you have multiple radios and multiple ICS. Everyone can be in same ICS network or separate (as to rear and to pilots), but both pilots has own tasks, where example pilot talks to ground units and co-pilot to ATC and GCI, but pilots can talk to each other and hear what other is speaking.
So there the crew elloborate and share the communication load as well. And they can pass through other radio to another, so they can all talk to through different radio elsewhere.
I've just started watching Drewksi and now he shows up in here.
coincidence? I think not.
It honestly needs an external app. If DCS has to be running to use the VOIP system, it's going to crimp the activity of people running stuff like LotAC.
For a lot of the Airgoon missions, the guys on LotATC are running on systems that can't really handle DCS, but they're still able to be part of the mission.
Maybe if it can integrate with SRS so that people running pure external can still talk with others, it'll be fine.
Would be really nice if stuff like LotATC can be "assigned" to particular units or statics in the mission as a source of broadcast for determining radio range and occlusion.
almost at 100k ralfi, we remember the face reveal tweet
I'm guessing that the "Encrypt" feature works just like Continuous Tone-Coded Squelch System (CTCSS) on ham radios.
Short press and long press... need more of those in DCS bindings.
Not sure if i just missed it, but does two external stations transmitting on the same frequency distort eachother for a listener?
ie if player A is talking and gets stepped on by player B, will Player C hear both or garbeld sound? (where garbeld should be more realistic if at similar signal strengt)
9:29 that sort of thing can happen if the radio squelch is set high
It's very close. Just a bit more work to nudge it over the finish line.
You should try lowering the 'squelch' threshold on you radios, if set high it will just cut out unclear transmission / noise.
If there are background engine sounds during transmission will there also be sounds of chaff/flares being deployed, missiles being launched or guns being fired?
Next Su-25 video when?
Welcome to the world of military field communications, where shit just cuts out for no apparent reason (usually when you need it the most)!!!!! Good Vid!
Not sure if that background noise is accurate or not. When I was a JTAC I never heard engine noises when I was communicating with aircraft. Didn't hear the rotor blades of helicopters either. The mic is kind of integrated into the oxygen mask and doesn't pick up a lot of other noise. Not sure why in helicopters though.
This could really make me try multipayer. I hope this takes off :)
@23:55 I assume that's for two intercom systems in the Huey, which has an all-crew mode and a private-between-pilots mode.
The Huey also has a problem currently in that every crew station is supposed to have its own intercom panel but there's only one. SRS has to jump through some hoops to work around this - maybe that's what this is for. (Because, ideally you'd set it on your crew-station's intercom panel, there aren't multiple PTT switches in the real Huey.) But I have no idea what DCS is doing with it as, when I went to test my mic, it sounded glitchy/buzzy (classic buffer underrun from a small, low latency buffer and not enough audio thread priority to keep it from running dry) so I stopped there and explored it no further. SRS works fine on the same sound device and with DCS running so it's not like a limitation of my system.
Hotmic should be constant transmission. VOX stands for voice on transmit so on VOX based on how you have it adjusted, it should transmit based on the audio level. If adjusted and working correctly you shouldn't have to key the mic, should only speak at your normal volume and it should transmit. VOX is better for ICS rather than UHF/VHF comms. Depending on the aircraft, PTT or cold mic should just require you to key the mic.
Just an idea for future if they add AI voice chat intraction with F10 menu and something along the lines of overlord bot. Man this VOIP would be bomber then. But for now as someone who doesnt have that much time on their hands fiddling with VIOP seems like more hassle. Even though i love the realistic sounding radios and always wanted in game voice chat. I'll sill try to stick to srs or discord for now because they are more user friendly now. Maybe in future
Environmental sounds being sent over the radio: Several commenters say that basically shouldn't be happening anyway. It's possible that the only reason it happens is because of sound from speakers enters a microphone in the same room, which is then submitted over radio. If so, you'll only hear it from specific people. Though the best value would have been in cockpit alarms coming across the radio, whether with a panicked or calm voice.
12:06 Around here we call that "blowing mike".
In addition to what was mentioned, SRS supports the F18 datalink voice, which AFAICT the ingame VOIP doesn't. I'm guessing this may be a matter of 'not yet' given the amount of detail on other radio systems and their quality, whereas datalink radio has functional difference which will require further study and implementation. Can rooms be used as a workaround?
Overall it's starting to look good. Given how non-simple "simple radio standalone" is, I won't be sad to leave it behind.
so still WIP, well still this looks cool and I can't wait to try it out!
Once they iron out the kinks and allow mod support for things like LOTAC, then yea... it will be nice to finally have a built in voice comm system.
What about squelch? Is that implemented as it would impact the cutoff if im not mistaking
Vjoy should help with setting up switchable modes to add ‘buttons’ from other button presses. It’s just a solution but maybe dcs will change soon
Were those sharp/faded cutouts on different freq bands? In my experience UHF has poorer propagation than VHF in those circumstances so may be modelled to reflect that?
Control + Shift + Tab is my Steam Overlay keybind 😭
I really wish they tried shooting in the ka50 while transmitting, if they have gun sounds while transmitting i will use dcs radio's forever xD
I'm think of getting in to dcs and I don't have a hotas and I wondering what you would recommend for a starter for me.
Nice video. But won't use VOIP instead of SRS until all module have the same config as the Viggen as I have no places left on my HOTAS.
Was it ever :3
great video appreciate it, but please send us some tutorial about the reshade depth of field I'm begging you 🙏🙏
Question. My new voip only works on the apachee nobody/i can hear me/them when they transmit or when i do but it all works in the apachee and ideas?
0 seconds ago
Do the radios have squelch settings that can be adjusted?
In anything I’ve ever flown irl when you step on someone the 2 or more people who are transmitting can’t hear anything other than themselves speaking through their own audio panel. As in whenever you press your ptt the audio panel pumps only your own mic audio into your headphones so you can hear yourself make the call. Now everyone not transmitting and just listening will hear chaos on freq. They should really add that in game!
12:19 how do you do this out of focus effect? Is it reshade?
"This makes me want to play DCS more..."
Literally what me and my brother said word to word after trying out this new voice chat. Just give so much immersion to the whole simulation, rather than talking over discord. Also I love the fact that ED went into the details to create a more or less unique sound for all the radios you can use in DCS.
I don't know how the real radios work, but I know a little about data encryption (from computer science). I could imagine the encryption can't deal with too low transmit quality, so it cuts out as soon as the noise is too strong? Maybe without encryption on, the audio starts getting more noisy before cutting out
Also does the volume knob ingame not work? Even in srs i just set one of my radios down with the volume control knob, i dont mess with the srs setting.