I got the same X5 your mom drives, ill keep an eye out for those front control arm videos, I think I used your video to help replace the electric fan to fix my AC three months ago.
Could be a lubrication issue but there will be more ware on the top surface because of the pressure from the valve springs loading the top bearing. The sealing rings like on the cams are also used on outboard motors to seal the crank shaft and do over time cut into the aluminum block. observing the BMW's that come into my sons shop, it seems to me that the owners do not change there oil often enough and don't like to pay for synthetic oil. 15,000 mi. oil changes just don't cut it. Good video keep them coming.
It looks like low oil at some point , but since the intake cam bearings are perfect I would say probably someone has been in here before swapping parts, the exhaust ledge box bottom was perfect, the top was totally gone, I wonder if someone has mismatched the ledge box, probably will never know
man Art I'm getting to old for this stuff anymore, Been under a car doing ball joints and control arms today, about ready for bed and its only 5:00 lol, the MRE videos are much easier.
Man I took off my engine head due to crank hub spun and bent my cylinder 1 valve exhaust side only impact and it is a messy messy job lol a lot of work and I’m doing it with engine in car very simple if you have mechanical knowledge no need to remove turbo and just have a new head gasket obviously and make sure to order the owl brand long torx cannot remove the engine head without those tools but better off just buying new cam shaft than $8k in labor cost if your not your own mechanic like me and you lol so camshaft most cheapest route in comparison to labor cost plus resurfacing at machine shop with all new gaskets just not worth the mess but cool video man is this n54? I got n55
Im about to do my valve cover gasket on my 07 x3 with the n52 engine and i already have timing tools along with the updated cam bearing rings, mileage is 158k and i do not know the history of oil changes so as preventative maintenance im going to replace the rings. I seen you did not use the tool for installing the exhaust side but as far as the intake side goes, do i have to use the spring release tool to remove the camshaft? i was watching your videos to find out but you ended up replacing the whole head so you didn't need to do it lol
Anyone knows if they have a kit or part to make up for one worn top Camshaft's Lobe (6:09- finger touching it)? 1986 BMW M7 (E23) engine sounds like a diesel car. Parts are hard to find & very expensive. And can't find Camshaft with kit with seals and gaskets. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
I think you should change your title and also stop mentioning the lifter ticking was caused by the ledge seal surface wear, because they are not related. The codes thrown about vanos camshaft can be the result of the ledge seal surface wear, but the ticking is result of one or more lifters having air trapped in them due to either repeated short distance commutes, or starting a cold engine and leaving it idling for one or two minutes and then shutting it off, and next time started they tick. And on a fully warm engine which takes like 15 minutes and driving around or above 2K rpm to purge any trapped air from the lifters. Note you mentioned there was complaint of the ticking of this engine for years and years. The ledge wear cannot have been there for years and years. There is a TSB about ledge surface wear and related codes by BMW, and there is another TSB about the ticking lifters by BMW, they are separate issues. The ticking lifter is just nuisance and happens with short drives or long cold engine idles. I have my car for more than 10 years, I had the ticking from time to time, and I can reproduce the ticking if I wanted to because I know under what conditions it happens by this time. I have never had any problems or any codes with Vanos, camshaft whatsover. A copy of the TSB for the vanos/camshaft ledge : static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2012/SB-10032779-8218.pdf A copy of the later which BMW put after they updated the engine head that somehow prevented air getting trapped on the lifter(s) at long cold idle or repeated short trips australiancar.reviews/_pdfs/BMW_N52-engine_ServiceBulletin-110907.pdf
Let me put it this way, with this particular car you had, the engine valve train was noisy due to wear on the ledge seal and eventually camshaft. But even though it may be noisy and can be considered "ticking", this is a different issue than the infamous N52 occasional lifter ticking. The infamous N52 ticking is very distinct, more like a "tap tap tap" sound and always, always clears itself after car is run above 2K rpm for a few minutes when fully warmed up. BMW changed the head casting design a few years later after first N52s rolled out, maybe 2008 on N52 to address the complaining customers with warranty on the ticking N52's. And BMW replaced the whole head if a customer during warranty complained enough about the occasional ticking noise. They didn't just change the ledge and camshaft, they changed the whole head with new design, different casting. The ledge seal issue not only applies to N52 but also to N54, and it may actually be more common issue on N54s. BMW never issued a new head design for N54, they just issued the TSB for ledge seal check when certain vanos codes are thrown. Also N54's are not famous for occasional ticking as the N52s, but they use the same ledge design.
They would change the head on the n52 because once the intake side was scratched it was not replaceable, overall a very easy fix compared to other engines as long as you can find a new or a good used updated cam and ledge and lifters to replace it with
The part number of new head was different, different casting design. Ledge and camshaft part numbers didn't change, because that is a separate issue. Lifter and rockers also got new part numbers along with the new design head casting. BMW could easily have sent this to dealers with a TSB: for ticking complaining customers under warranty: first check ledge seal wears. If only exhaust replace exhaust ledge. If intake ledge also worn replace head. Instead of that, they came up with a new head casting design and for customers under warranty with old head design and who complained enough they replaced the whole head. Like I said, the engine you fixed will very likely start having the infamous N52 ticking if it was started cold and left idling for a few minutes and then shut down, and later restarted after 8 hours or so and left idling a few minutes. Like all the other N52's before updated head design. Even those sometimes tick.
My only guess other than no lubrication is that if that cam has ever been off then whoever put it back on did not use the special tools to line up the top shell to the bottom shell on the cam. I could be completely wrong but that is mine best and only guess at this point
@@ExcaliburTTP dang, yeah i've watched other vids since the comment and see how it can flex still, personally think it needs two more dowels towards middle to keep them from flexing.
@@exiteternium it’s the valves pushing on the cam. There’s a tool to keep them down so when you install it goes right in. Doing it soon one i get my cam seals
@@ExcaliburTTP yes i'm aware that is part of the issue causing deflection in the cam/ slight bending. but using the tool also requires removal of the direct injectors as well to hold down the affected rockers. ( there is also an individual on E90 forum who did cam ledges and new timing components, and had a few rockers fall off during install, luckily he caught it quickly after i told him to recheck his work)
Isn't that the E90 where the valve cover had been off in the rain or something like that? Do you believe that to be the cause, or is it simply just extremely poor maintenance?
I seen a BMW dealer when that lifters start making noise their air bound. you have to hold at 3,000 RPMs for a few minutes. Otherwise maybe this is what will happen??
So Nathan, do you think this ticking noise can be corrected by cleaning /replacing hydraulic lifters? Mine always ticks or better said rattles like diesel on start up, but the rattle goes away as the engine reaches normal operating temperature. How hard would this job be for someone who did some work on engines before? Anything to really watch out for while removing camshafts /hydraulic lifters on those engines?
I had a bmw e90 that had the exhaust cam snap, it's a PITA to do, mainlu because you need to remove the a/c filters and plastics by the firewall, the intake, and so on. I removed the timing chain tensioner as well to make life easier, if replacing the head the header would need to come out too, and there's soooo little space in that side of the engine. As far as timing goes i will not talk about what I did lol
Look at my videos if you wanna see the damage. But I would replace the cam and journal at the very least. The lifters shouldn't be fouled if your engine is clean like the one in the video.
@@jonyrock it is fricking BMW recommended service of 25K. Are they out if their minds? Of course the engine is gonna be full of gunk and crap because of the extended oil change interval, one critical component of maintenance they seem to deliberately do, so you throw away a car after 180K.
@@trade1713 That is exactly what BMW does. N52 oil change is rated for 8000 Kms (5w30 LL01 in US and LL04 in europe). BMW does not live only by selling cars, but by upselling service and parts.
Great videos as always. I have cam ledge seal wear on N52 head as well. How much luck have you had finding a good used head on ebay? Or are you getting heads direct from a salvage yard that specializes in BMW & MB parts?
buying a whole engine is usually the same price as a new head, I paid $700 for the last engine, you will need to find a late 08 or newer engine or head so it don't have cam ledge seal issues
Hey man, great video. I watch loads of your content. I have a n43 in my E9x which is being a pain. The engine locks up after attempting to start it. And then I have to get an extension bar to release it again. This has happened twice now. No signs of damage on the pistons or the block, the timing chain has been changed and timed, the oil is fresh, all the solenoids have been cleaned. Any idea would be appreciated. Thanks man.
Should the hydraulic lifters be squishy or hard when you pull them out? Don't they have a once way valve inside and if you can press them down, they should be replaced?
I just bought a 2007 328i and the service records show at 40,000km defect code fixed under warranty 11120332CR, and according to some research it is described as a "cylinder head deformed / distorted / bent". Was the head replaced for this issue? Do you know?
If it was done under warranty by BMW they will have a record of it on their service database. Ask at your dealer if they can pull up the records, they should be able to.
crazy stuff with these engines.... I have a video of a similar problem, except that after enough scoring the camshaft snapped between cylinder 5 & 6. I replaced the exhaust cam and lobe holder and the car was perfectly fine after that. Check out my vid!
Gabrial: stuck injectors is never a problem on these engines. It's not a diesel engine ... Poor idle is often also the case of crank/camshaft sensor that is defect, or idle control valve.
@@hanynowsky I should have deleted my previous comment, as I might have said something I don't know shit about. I know a lot about M54 engines, but honestly don't know shit about a valvetronic. So I'll stfu :)
Montrey Actor lol you should’ve known he ain’t gonna give that out because he’s not gonna 🤷♂️know which one is you, after receiving a million inbox messages.
I highly recommend switching over to the Milwaukee M18 Fuel line of impacts. It will change your life.
ingersoll rand is my recommendation ive used mine at work for a few years now and are good quality
M18 is heavy and slow. Can't beat dewalt. My second choice is actually Kobalt 24v. Lowes brand. They are awesome.
Top of the valve box/damage would be because of the upward direction of force as the lobe pushes on the valve spring. IMO
Exactly!
I got the same X5 your mom drives, ill keep an eye out for those front control arm videos, I think I used your video to help replace the electric fan to fix my AC three months ago.
Either Saturday or Monday that video will be up, depending on when usps feels like delivering the parts, thanks for watching
Could be a lubrication issue but there will be more ware on the top surface because of the pressure from the valve springs loading the top bearing. The sealing rings like on the cams are also used on outboard motors to seal the crank shaft and do over time cut into the aluminum block. observing the BMW's that come into my sons shop, it seems to me that the owners do not change there oil often enough and don't like to pay for synthetic oil. 15,000 mi. oil changes just don't cut it. Good video keep them coming.
It looks like low oil at some point , but since the intake cam bearings are perfect I would say probably someone has been in here before swapping parts, the exhaust ledge box bottom was perfect, the top was totally gone, I wonder if someone has mismatched the ledge box, probably will never know
maybe overtightning those exhaust cam bolts did that?
the cam forces the valve down, and pushes against the top bearing shell. therefore more wear on top shells. Yes?
Thanks Steve. for a minute there I thought Really? You don't know why the top is worn. This should have separate cam bearings anyway.
So if you were to get a N52, due to this issue would you look at an 08 or 09 -2013? And just leave the 06-07 alone?
Hello, is it possible to remove the exhaust camshaft without blocking the timing?
When I work on my vehicles, I always have at least one bolt left over. LOL Nina won't let work on her truck anymore.
man Art I'm getting to old for this stuff anymore, Been under a car doing ball joints and control arms today, about ready for bed and its only 5:00 lol, the MRE videos are much easier.
Nathan, you make both types of videos look easy.
excellent video excellent pacing and super professional presentation
Do you have to set pin in flywheel before removing the cam or can you just unbolt everything
Hi
Which is the cause of this kind of wear on the camahaft?
Regards!
Mine was due to poor lubrication
What would you recommend having done at 100k for a bmw?
Do you have to retime the motor
The N52 loves to tick.
I messaged you on Facebook about a similar problem you fixed and I've been waiting for your reply
Are you able to use the revised cylinder head, the one that's on the later ones.
My '07 N52 with 191k miles suffered from catastrophic exhaust cam bearing failure. I elected to replace the entire engine with a 68k mile '11 N52.
Were you getting codes before it died? How hard was the engine swap?
How is the 07 running now after the swap?
@@asimkhan8620 perfectly!
Man I took off my engine head due to crank hub spun and bent my cylinder 1 valve exhaust side only impact and it is a messy messy job lol a lot of work and I’m doing it with engine in car very simple if you have mechanical knowledge no need to remove turbo and just have a new head gasket obviously and make sure to order the owl brand long torx cannot remove the engine head without those tools but better off just buying new cam shaft than $8k in labor cost if your not your own mechanic like me and you lol so camshaft most cheapest route in comparison to labor cost plus resurfacing at machine shop with all new gaskets just not worth the mess but cool video man is this n54? I got n55
You’re working on this without the camlock tool?
People usually will get the number one on top of that center because you could be 180° off on some vehicles. compression stroke
Im about to do my valve cover gasket on my 07 x3 with the n52 engine and i already have timing tools along with the updated cam bearing rings, mileage is 158k and i do not know the history of oil changes so as preventative maintenance im going to replace the rings. I seen you did not use the tool for installing the exhaust side but as far as the intake side goes, do i have to use the spring release tool to remove the camshaft? i was watching your videos to find out but you ended up replacing the whole head so you didn't need to do it lol
Anyone knows if they have a kit or part to make up for one worn top Camshaft's Lobe (6:09- finger touching it)?
1986 BMW M7 (E23) engine sounds like a diesel car. Parts are hard to find & very expensive. And can't find Camshaft with kit with seals and gaskets. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
I think you should change your title and also stop mentioning the lifter ticking was caused by the ledge seal surface wear, because they are not related. The codes thrown about vanos camshaft can be the result of the ledge seal surface wear, but the ticking is result of one or more lifters having air trapped in them due to either repeated short distance commutes, or starting a cold engine and leaving it idling for one or two minutes and then shutting it off, and next time started they tick. And on a fully warm engine which takes like 15 minutes and driving around or above 2K rpm to purge any trapped air from the lifters. Note you mentioned there was complaint of the ticking of this engine for years and years. The ledge wear cannot have been there for years and years. There is a TSB about ledge surface wear and related codes by BMW, and there is another TSB about the ticking lifters by BMW, they are separate issues. The ticking lifter is just nuisance and happens with short drives or long cold engine idles. I have my car for more than 10 years, I had the ticking from time to time, and I can reproduce the ticking if I wanted to because I know under what conditions it happens by this time. I have never had any problems or any codes with Vanos, camshaft whatsover. A copy of the TSB for the vanos/camshaft ledge : static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2012/SB-10032779-8218.pdf A copy of the later which BMW put after they updated the engine head that somehow prevented air getting trapped on the lifter(s) at long cold idle or repeated short trips australiancar.reviews/_pdfs/BMW_N52-engine_ServiceBulletin-110907.pdf
+PhaseP1 this was not the case, the cam itself and the ledge box was trash check my newer videos on this issue
Let me put it this way, with this particular car you had, the engine valve train was noisy due to wear on the ledge seal and eventually camshaft. But even though it may be noisy and can be considered "ticking", this is a different issue than the infamous N52 occasional lifter ticking. The infamous N52 ticking is very distinct, more like a "tap tap tap" sound and always, always clears itself after car is run above 2K rpm for a few minutes when fully warmed up. BMW changed the head casting design a few years later after first N52s rolled out, maybe 2008 on N52 to address the complaining customers with warranty on the ticking N52's. And BMW replaced the whole head if a customer during warranty complained enough about the occasional ticking noise. They didn't just change the ledge and camshaft, they changed the whole head with new design, different casting. The ledge seal issue not only applies to N52 but also to N54, and it may actually be more common issue on N54s. BMW never issued a new head design for N54, they just issued the TSB for ledge seal check when certain vanos codes are thrown. Also N54's are not famous for occasional ticking as the N52s, but they use the same ledge design.
They would change the head on the n52 because once the intake side was scratched it was not replaceable, overall a very easy fix compared to other engines as long as you can find a new or a good used updated cam and ledge and lifters to replace it with
The part number of new head was different, different casting design. Ledge and camshaft part numbers didn't change, because that is a separate issue. Lifter and rockers also got new part numbers along with the new design head casting. BMW could easily have sent this to dealers with a TSB: for ticking complaining customers under warranty: first check ledge seal wears. If only exhaust replace exhaust ledge. If intake ledge also worn replace head. Instead of that, they came up with a new head casting design and for customers under warranty with old head design and who complained enough they replaced the whole head. Like I said, the engine you fixed will very likely start having the infamous N52 ticking if it was started cold and left idling for a few minutes and then shut down, and later restarted after 8 hours or so and left idling a few minutes. Like all the other N52's before updated head design. Even those sometimes tick.
@@PhaseP1 100% Okay with you on that.
Can that cam be turned couple times? When chain is off ?
I opened mine and had the exact same isse. It was so bad that the cam was moving around up and down in that cam holder.
How much more difficult and time consuming would it be to change the cylinder head? And what other steps would be needed? I have an n54
Do you had any kind of peformance issues?
My N52 got that ticking ONLY if ist warm! You think thats the same issue there? :(
Did you still need to use timing kit, even if you just moved timing sprocket that goes on the camshaft aside on the exhaust side?
Highly recommend you use the timing kit if you loosen the vanos from the cam at all.
My only guess other than no lubrication is that if that cam has ever been off then whoever put it back on did not use the special tools to line up the top shell to the bottom shell on the cam. I could be completely wrong but that is mine best and only guess at this point
They have dowels.. you shouldn't need a tool to align it.
@@exiteterniumcorrect it does have dowels, however as someone who just did this, mine got this messed up and will be using the alignment tool
@@ExcaliburTTP dang, yeah i've watched other vids since the comment and see how it can flex still, personally think it needs two more dowels towards middle to keep them from flexing.
@@exiteternium it’s the valves pushing on the cam. There’s a tool to keep them down so when you install it goes right in. Doing it soon one i get my cam seals
@@ExcaliburTTP yes i'm aware that is part of the issue causing deflection in the cam/ slight bending. but using the tool also requires removal of the direct injectors as well to hold down the affected rockers.
( there is also an individual on E90 forum who did cam ledges and new timing components, and had a few rockers fall off during install, luckily he caught it quickly after i told him to recheck his work)
Isn't that the E90 where the valve cover had been off in the rain or something like that? Do you believe that to be the cause, or is it simply just extremely poor maintenance?
I seen a BMW dealer when that lifters start making noise their air bound. you have to hold at 3,000 RPMs for a few minutes. Otherwise maybe this is what will happen??
i have a n52 2006 bmw 325xi when the engine is warm it stall on me and when i try and start it it start up but then die agian
It's obvious that the top bearing are worn as they take all the pressure from the valve springs
So Nathan, do you think this ticking noise can be corrected by cleaning /replacing hydraulic lifters?
Mine always ticks or better said rattles like diesel on start up, but the rattle goes away as the engine reaches normal operating temperature.
How hard would this job be for someone who did some work on engines before?
Anything to really watch out for while removing camshafts /hydraulic lifters on those engines?
I had a bmw e90 that had the exhaust cam snap, it's a PITA to do, mainlu because you need to remove the a/c filters and plastics by the firewall, the intake, and so on. I removed the timing chain tensioner as well to make life easier, if replacing the head the header would need to come out too, and there's soooo little space in that side of the engine. As far as timing goes i will not talk about what I did lol
Look at my videos if you wanna see the damage. But I would replace the cam and journal at the very least. The lifters shouldn't be fouled if your engine is clean like the one in the video.
@@jonyrock it is fricking BMW recommended service of 25K.
Are they out if their minds?
Of course the engine is gonna be full of gunk and crap because of the extended oil change interval, one critical component of maintenance they seem to deliberately do, so you throw away a car after 180K.
@@trade1713 That is exactly what BMW does. N52 oil change is rated for 8000 Kms (5w30 LL01 in US and LL04 in europe).
BMW does not live only by selling cars, but by upselling service and parts.
Great videos as always. I have cam ledge seal wear on N52 head as well. How much luck have you had finding a good used head on ebay? Or are you getting heads direct from a salvage yard that specializes in BMW & MB parts?
buying a whole engine is usually the same price as a new head, I paid $700 for the last engine, you will need to find a late 08 or newer engine or head so it don't have cam ledge seal issues
@@NathansBMWWorkshop cam ledge seals have been superseded by teflon ones that have no issues. No need for a new head.
Hey man, great video. I watch loads of your content. I have a n43 in my E9x which is being a pain. The engine locks up after attempting to start it. And then I have to get an extension bar to release it again. This has happened twice now. No signs of damage on the pistons or the block, the timing chain has been changed and timed, the oil is fresh, all the solenoids have been cleaned. Any idea would be appreciated. Thanks man.
Either injector leaking down or oil or coolant in the combustion chamber , thanks for watching also
Should the hydraulic lifters be squishy or hard when you pull them out? Don't they have a once way valve inside and if you can press them down, they should be replaced?
hard when taken out, they are full of oil... I usually have a bucket full of fresh oil and I dump them in it to keep em air tight, all lubed up.
@@psiturbo i had 2 that were soft and squishy so i replaced them. rest were hard.
Block looks different.i thought N51/52s are open deck blocks
I just bought a 2007 328i and the service records show at 40,000km defect code fixed under warranty 11120332CR, and according to some research it is described as a "cylinder head deformed / distorted / bent". Was the head replaced for this issue? Do you know?
If it was done under warranty by BMW they will have a record of it on their service database. Ask at your dealer if they can pull up the records, they should be able to.
I did and that is what is on the service record, so the head was changed but no word on the camshaft
nice,thanks mate..
How does the N52 engine in the E90 hold up to the M52 and M54 engines in the earlier 3 series BMWs?
If you buy a 2008 or newer the n52 is a lot better
My late 2005 E90 N52 330i is at 260.000 km, so they're all pretty durable.
102k on 2006 325. No issues other than coils, starter and usual leaks. Original waterpump
@@NathansBMWWorkshop are you talking about the ones with the black plastic covers?
I've got a late 2007 that has the black cover too...
Aaah n52, was like that doesnt look like an n54.. go figure, the na block is closed deck while the twin turbo monster is open LOL.
N51/52 is open deck too. Not sure why he got closed
What's the mileage on this car?
$148k
crazy stuff with these engines.... I have a video of a similar problem, except that after enough scoring the camshaft snapped between cylinder 5 & 6. I replaced the exhaust cam and lobe holder and the car was perfectly fine after that. Check out my vid!
dam that engine looks so clean so odd it has that fault
On mine the cam bolts had come loose and eventually the cam snapped. Look at my videos. It's crazy
This is common fault for all N52 before 08. _ALL_ of them.
How many miles are on your n52 with that damage
" youre an idoit " 😂
Was that because of the wrong oil filter?
wold the cam scoring mean there is oil pressure or supply problem ?
I would think low oil or out of oil at some point
is there any evidence that there is a persistent low oil supply or pressure issue?
I got a 2006 330i BMW with 120,000 miles rough idle any idea what could be the main reason
Gabrial: stuck injectors is never a problem on these engines. It's not a diesel engine ... Poor idle is often also the case of crank/camshaft sensor that is defect, or idle control valve.
@@dokterkarel I thought Valve lift (Valvetronic ) replaced the IDLE VALVE! Am I wrong?
@@hanynowsky I should have deleted my previous comment, as I might have said something I don't know shit about. I know a lot about M54 engines, but honestly don't know shit about a valvetronic. So I'll stfu :)
Hello bro help me
Nathan need your help what's your email asap!
Montrey Actor lol you should’ve known he ain’t gonna give that out because he’s not gonna 🤷♂️know which one is you, after receiving a million inbox messages.
Mcgyver B actually he's a great person and did help. He went above and beyond
BMW=Garbage