I like the that Phoenix Wright's weaknesses are generally so canon accurate. Like he's terrible most of the time, but his weaknesses and strengths are both so in character. -Court cases in the actual series are incredibly stacked against the defense, and it's a big part of the commentary in the story. Being more than a low-tier hero wouldn't be in character. -In canon, he's known for being incredibly lucky, in the way that impacts him both really positively and really negatively. -Getting tournabout mode requires you to properly dig up dirt on the opponent, and either find a vulnerable moment in their defense or to combo into it. -Combos into tournabout come across like the moments where Phoenix has to build up his argument slowly before getting you. -Not all major tournabouts in Ace Attorney are case enders, sometimes a subject is able to keep the case from closing with good defense even after a minor slip up. Even being challenged to keep that momentum is in-character. -Good play requires great teamwork and synergy with the rest of your team and I can think of a lot of moments of other characters coming in clutch and saving the case in Ace Attorney. He has a lot of moments requiring others to pull through and they often do in the most clutch situations. It feels like a lot of the other characters were bad because they lack tools other characters have, meanwhile Wright is doomed to be low tier from the start because it would not be Ace Attorney if you weren't playing as somebody who wasn't hated by the system itself. Yet he's just barely capable of pulling through with a combination of genuine skill at getting through the opponent's defenses, teamwork, and a lot of luck. If you want Phoenix Wright to be a top tier then make Edgeworth playable.
I will say that, due to the Active Assists of MVCI, Phoenix would’ve likely been a top tier there because you could summon Maya, have Phoenix look for evidence, then active switch to Ultron and defend Phoenix while he looks for evidence, which means that when he were to get lucky that’s a free Turnabout.
i like how every time phoenix wright is mentioned in mvc3 a fan goes in the comments and says how his playstyle and tier placement are 100% accurate to the games
Honestly, I have major respect for peple who upload these type of videos. Of course, it's nice to know why a character is strong but knowing why a character is bad can give a lot of insight, especially to people like me who know about certain games but don't enough to know why a character sucks. It's also nice to prevent stuff like this being lost media or just extremely difficult to find out (for example mk9 Kano has extremely little videos on him), so it's honestly great a video like this exists.
Remind me of 2nd Impact >Be Hugo >Have a true meterless infinite in the corner that works against every single characters in the game >Is bottom tier These games are so intriguing
They hit Wesker a little too hard too. I think even without nerfs, he'd still be unable to fight the top tier really like Vergil, Phoenix and Morrigan.
If Jill was in a anime fighter like guilty gear or blaze blue, she’d be top-tier or even just high tier, but unfortunately she’s in a Marvel game and that just doesn’t fly around here
If your wondering if Iron Fist's launcher being only grounded was intentional or not, they have a specific Iron Fist only flag within his launcher parameters specifically to only hit if the opponent is grounded. This was 100% intentional and it would have been fine if he had better tools to accommodate for this, but unfortunately he doesn't.
I'd love a follow-up on this video going over common team synergies that actually make these characters work, like IHeartJustice's team, or Sacktap's teams helping PW and Ghost Rider respectively! Because while these characters well earn their role of low tier, it's important to remember that Marvel is in fact a team building game, and seeing the interesting synergies people use to get the most out of these characters is always fascinating!
Yo this is a great video idea bro, I'd love to see that too, like, making bad characters shine with some great assists or for example using setups to stop dark phoenix
I like to pair Tron with Frank West. Lunch Time DHC into Frank lets me get level 4 immediately. Bad idea if either of them die independently, but it's still fun to goof around with.
As someone whose channel is devoted to Ryu UMVC3 combos (at the moment) I will like to say a few points. For his assist value, Hadoken has a fixed hitstun meaning that the opponent can't pop out of it which is why its a great combo extension tool. His shoryuken is not used because it is more meant as an alpha counter tool which is a sorely underused mechanic in general. In regards to his combos, he has many ways to make longer combos but as you said in your video, people only go as far as the combo you showed and don't really go for the fancier Denjin combos or double Shinku Hadoken combos. You are absolutely right about how sad he is without meter though. As for some things that make Ryu unique, well being able to aim Shinku Hadoken up ward isn't bad as only a few characters have a super that goes straight up. His Shin Hadoken (a rarely seen super since most player rarely use his install in the first place) is able to cover the an area over his head as well as in front of and behind him (this is notable in the MorriDoom match up) if he is on the ground and below him in the air. Plus Hado Shorykun having a the most invincibility of any special move in the game allows him to blow through many supers and pressure setups. Finally, his hadoken begin slow allows him travel behind his where as his Ren Hadokens can help him play some keepaway since it can be canceled into a super. Again noting that Ryu must have meter to do things.
Ryu is honestly an honest character in a game where normal fighting game honesty is discouraged. He's a level 5 fighter vs level 30 wizards and rogues.
So pheonix wright has a few more nuances that you never mentioned. You can grab pw through maya shield, so playing him vs any character with a command gram, or even a character that can easily run up grab is a struggle. The most important thing is that yes his evidence is rng, but the rng is based off of a seed that is selected at character select, and he keeps that seed until you go back to character select. So if you got good evidence on pulls 1,2, and 4. You will keep getting good evidence on pulls 1, 2, and 4 every time you hit rematch. Conversely if you got bad evidence on first 5 pulls. You want to hit character select asap to get a new seed. One of my friends lost to ihj at evo because of this
Iron Fist is the Little Mac of UMvC 3 except he doesn't have that stubborn group of fans that play him anyway out of love or madness. Edit: You gotta feel bad for She Hulk. She was amazing in vanilla MvC3 and the transition to Ultimate got her badly nerfed with the changes. I dont get how they gave her such a downgrade but let the other top tiers exist.
...? Someone got into top 8 at evo with an iron fist team. Justin Wong sometimes brings him out whenever he feels like clowning in pools. And I think the entirety of Georgia has a pocket IF for someone reason, if TNS brackets are anything to go by. Danny has his fans, they just aren't militant about it.
I remember that pretty early on people were saying, "You can just chicken block against Iron Fist and he really can't do anything to you." And a decade later that's still all that's necessary for him to be low tier.
It fascinates me that Jill's install functions roughly the same as Bang Shishigami's FuRinKaZan in BlazBlue, but because of differences in system mechanics, Bang's is considered difficult but awesome, but Jill's is awesome but impractical.
I think characters like Phoenix and Frank would benefit greatly from an assist that helps with their mode change Frank could have a photo assist that gives half xp as a downside While Phoenix could have an assist that collects evidence in lmh order with the downside that you have to throw bad evidence away only when you control him It’s kinda like in dbzf where characters like gogeta and base goku have assist that level them up or charge their projectile it’d be cool
It doesn't matter whether the character is top tier, mid tier or low tier. Just play the character if you like it. It's down to how the player plays in the methotical way. Zenpool is playing well with his Ryu. Webberman, Mario19's Ryu is also good. Spartanthrone's Iron Fist is also good. And so is Abegen's Thor/Tron Bonne/She Hulk. Even Justin Wong's Wolverine/Storm/Akuma was no where near top tier meta can still win in EVO 2014.
Man, this games graphics are amazing. It's so stylish and fun to look at. And roster too, I always loved it. So many obvious, fan favorites, and obscure choices, they all mesh together to make a solid roster. (Both things that Infinite lacked...) If you added characters to the roster like Captain Commando, Classic Mega Man, Gambit, Venom, Loki, Edward Falcon, Cyclops, Asura, Thanos, and Daredevil, then it would literally be perfect!
Very comprehensive and some great breakdowns. Probably also worth mentioning that Nemesis only has one normal with super armour, which is his standing heavy. The fact that the 'unstoppable nemesis' only has one normal with armour, and the worst level 3, bums me out as a Nemesis main lol
My favourite part about being a phoenix wright main is going into a match knowing and expecting to be the underdog with unmatched potential to rain fire
I lost to a Hsien-Ko in an online match once🥴. Most embarrassing wakeup call in my life. Btw I mained Ghost Rider on my team when I was in middle school. He may not be effective in comp be sure is fun.
Love all the music backing the video! My favorite characters were Deadpool Taskmaster Dormammu and Doom but this is such a great video explaining those pesky low tiers
I've been watching your channel for a while, it has been useful for my interest as a FG player and as an aspiring Fighting Game Designer! Thank you for your hardwork
Why they gotta do Hsien Ko so dirty? 😭😭 I still remember her being my favorite character in the Darkstalkers game and was excited when she was announced in the lineup for UMVC3... then I played this super slow turtle character lacking tools needed to compensate for her lack of mobility in a game that rewards speed, getting that first hit, and long combos. Only ever seen 2 players use her for more than the Gold Armor Assist trick (still a strong trick, but that's all she gets 😂)
Yep, unfortunately Nemesis is little more than a meme these days. Even the other bottom tiers feel way better than him to play and more rewarding, there are no reasons to play Nemesis besides the noodles and looking a little cool. The video is accurate.
@@sorrydudebrosYeah, poor Nemesis got stuck with the worst set of supers in the entire game and both his normals and specials aren't much out of his tentacle using one. It's a shame.
Gustaff Fire assist did have invincibility in vanilla and that alone made Bonne a viable character. PR Rog famously got to the grand finals at EVO with her.
One of the things I love about UMVC3 (and tag team fighting games in general) is that picking a low tier isn’t necessarily a death sentence to your viability as a competitive player. As long as you’ve got stronger characters on your team (Sentinel, Doom, Dante) to clean up after Phoenix Wright, Tron, Nemesis, etc, you can still find success.
Been trying to make a theoretical worst team for UMvC3 so this video has been pretty helpful. If anyone’s curious: Point- Hsien Ko (Weapon Toss) Mid- She Hulk (Somersault Kick) Anchor- Wright (Paperwork) Mediocre at best damage, bad movement, everyone is meter hungry, bad against zoning and aerial foes, Golden Hsien is pointless since her assist sucks, and good luck getting Turnabout when Wright is your last character and has no assists.
Not that it really helps hsienko from being the worst character in umvc3 imo, her item toss isnt actually random. Every frame it cycles items in a fixed order. So theoretically you can know what item you get... if you have the whole item list memorized and how many frames have passed since you last used it
Been playing mvc3 for 7 years now (ever since I was 13) loyal tronn main to the end, I love using her with doom and sentinel. I may win 1 in 3 games, but man it is so satisfying whenever I win with her.
I love that Nemesis is massive and supposedly unstoppable, but he has no armor on the moves that actually matter. His level 3 and grounded normals could definitely use the DBFZ Broly treatment. He still wouldn't be *good* but it'd be something unique.
I get someone like Phoenix Wright not having the tools to consistently keep up with the rest of the cast but man, Hsien-Ko straight up feels like a hit job Also goddamn you always have great music choices in your videos
Hsien-Ko is my favorite here. Her design is so fun, I'm just glad I'm not competitively playing this game so I don't have to worry about any of this lol.
Really well constructed and educational video! Subbed for more! My only gripe was that for a lot of the characters, you kept talking about their damage output, but never showed the healthbars. But frustrating but overall not a big deal!
31:52 Look man, I've been around since when MVC3 Vanilla launched, and I was hyped as hell for Jill's new look and moveset, but man, I gotta say, on her level 3, I'm not sure it's unexplored at this point after all these years, I think it might just be overcosted for what it does, and thats from a person who thinks it's a sick super. Compare it to Berserker Charge, I mean damn. But Jill will still always be cool in this game.
As a long time Nemesis player, you pick up a few strats here and there. When using Bioweapon Assault (the Hyper Combo where Nemesis shoots rockets) at the end of a combo, dash back to try and be on the other side of the screen as possible to ensure that all the rockets hit, especially on those with small or wonky hitboxes, like Arthur, Firebrand, M.O.D.O.K, Tron Bonne. The Dirty Noodles (His Forward H) will be your best ally for pressure and some combo solo combo extensions, especially when they are angled down from the air. With the proper assists, you can close in space or pressure or even mix up with a low hitting assist, like Deadpool's Katana-Rama, Wesker's Samurai Edge, She-Hulk's Torpedo. Also one trick you can do with Nemesis is if you use the Standing Dirty Noodles and the opponent is caught crouching directly under the attack and they don't push block, you can immediately cancel it into Light Tentacle Grab and snatch them up if they are caught unaware. Also since by the time you use Light Clothesline or Rocket Slam in a combo, the damage scaling will be enough that if you use Standing Light or Crouching Medium, the opponent with air recovery and you can use Medium Tentacle Grab to snatch them up as well, especially if the opponent's character has little to no air mobility or simple is not expecting it. On the topic of Tentacle Grab, Nemesis has an infinite with it on certain characters. It's Tentacle Slam, either standing or crouching Light, and Medium Tentacle Grab. On some larger, less air mobile characters, it can be an infinite. One last thing also is using H Rocket Slam (the one where it launches them in the air) in the corner and using the H Tentacle Slam, since the H Rocket Slam leaves them at the perfect distance to be command grabbed. This works again on characters with terrible air mobility or if they aren't expecting it.
Hsien-Ko being made so slow in a MARVEL game is mindboggling. Whoever was working on her for Marvel must have been constantly stomped by Hsien-Ko players when playing Darkstalkers at the arcades or something.
Every time I see videos like this, I am constantly reminded of how I choose low tier characters in every game completely by accident. Like I main Nemesis and Ghost Rider 😂
Awesome editing and real af commentary I really like how you went out of your way and didn't sugarcoat the strengths and weaknesses of these seemingly cool characters Having and sharing these insights keep things real and alive I relate to this passion truly
As a pretty decent Nemesis player, I enjoyed your summary of him but there's definitely a few key details that could be mentioned! Nemesis is an armored character like Hulk, but with Armor that is so slow it is practically useless. Where Hulk is getting armor on frame 3 (5M) or frame 6 (5H), Nemesis' armor won't protect him until frame 10 (5H) or frame 16 (2H)!! Having slow normals definitely can be an issue in this game, but Dante's are just as slow, for reference. Nemesis is more worried about his armor AND... Nemesis can't deal with small characters!! I'm surprised this wasn't mentioned, but not only do small characters GREATLY increase the odds that the rocket launcher super messes up, but Nemesis just can't hit them. 5H will completely whiff on arthur, morrigan (crouching) etc., and 5M, one of his best pokes, can whiff too! Plus a lot of Nemesis' zoning AND approach is done via noodles - ground noodles will whiff on tons of the cast, and jumping noodles will have big deadzones to deal with, which small characters get to take advantage of. PLUS a lot of small characters can zone very effectively (the ones I mentioned above, rocket raccoon, V. Joe) - imagine you finally get in on them with this giant meatball and you can finally do something... and some of your most important options will just whiff and get you killed. Disagree on nemesis slowness! You even make a joke that sentinel is fast, but Nemesis plink dash is just as good or better. Ground movement is NOT Nemesis' weakness, and his (regular) jump lets him control lots of space with Noodles. Against zoners none of this helps him, so your comments about having to call assist + super jump are well-founded, but his ground movement is good. I know you weren't talking about X-factor in this video, but I'll also note that Nemesis has a very annoying issue with his x-factor, at levels 2 and 3 especially. If you're familiar with dante's x-factor 2 problem, where his sword will skip crucial animation frames, imagine that but even worse. Nemesis suddenly can barely do a j.MMHS magic series due to the way his rocket launcher animates during x-factor, meaning you have to do super delayed j.MHS series to finish combos, and his extended corner BnBs are much trickier or impossible, depending on context. EVEN worse: his light command grab (for hitting grounded opponents) doesn't reach as low, meaning a large percentage of the cast can crouch under his (GROUNDED) command grab when Nemesis is in x-factor!! I'm also a little surprised you didn't mention his assists like you did for some other characters in this vid - they are quite underwhelming as well :p Anyway that's it, just some insight from somebody who spent way, wayyyyyy too long playing this crappy character.
You’d think they’d have buff Ryu a bit seeing as he’s sort of the company FG mascot, but maybe the idea was to translate him from Street Fighter as one-to-one as possible?
Amazing video, also from the information it seems like Jill could be decent maybe 10 years down the line? Either way great video and got me pump for MVC2 on switch.
12:52 This is only true in vanilla MvC3; in UMVC3 she can jump cancel both command normals. I read somewhere that Hsien-Ko was among Yoshinori Ono's favorite characters, so it was really baffling why she was gimped hard here. She lost all her speed and momentum because the air dash became much slower, Senpu Bu (the pendulum) was uncancellable, and the complete randomness of the item toss was horrible. In D3, the move is actually much less random; you can get a stun item reliably because she always throws one after a certain item (Akuma doll). Furthermore, the bombs is a metered move with different command input, so you will NEVER throw one by random mistake. I lost count on how many times the hitbox-less bombs ruined my zoning game in UMVC3 because the bombs couldn't stop an advancing opponent. Also, I've never seen anyone mentioned it, but in Darkstalkers 3 her gold armor actually also speeds up her ground movement because she could RUN while it's active. They really should've kept it so she can at least wave-dash during the hyper and close the distance. After all, lore-wise she was supposed to lose control and goes berserk while Mei-Ling (the talisman) was being pulled off her head. For anyone curious, here's a sample of a high-level match by a top Hsien-Ko player in VS, and imagine the strong mid-high character she could've become: ruclips.net/video/6nxyAXz6fMY/видео.html
I think a point that should've been highlighted a bit more is Phoenix's Turnabout Mode. Lots of casual players will see this flashy new mode and then claim it makes Phoenix top tier, which would then make him a mid tier character overall (top tier in Turnabout, low tier outside of it). But, Turnabout isn't as much of a game changer as it seems. While he gets a fast, ground bouncing overhead move, he doesn't get a good low to compensate, with his only low still being his crouching light, which has ZERO range. It's not uncommon to see people hold up back against Phoenix in Turnabout. His zoning tools may be good to keep people out, but unless the opponent is at a life deficit and the timer is running low, there really isn't any reason to approach Phoenix. Any character with half decent mobility can wait out the timer. This isn't to say it's bad, just severely overrated. You will very often see good Phoenix players steamroll once they get in Turnabout, but that's mainly because his buffed moves give him an actual incoming mix, something that almost every other character has without the need for an install. His damage output is insane, but that's only to compliment the very short timer on Turnabout. Typically, it doesn't matter how fast you kill a character as long as you get the kill since most optimized combos in this game will TOD. TLDR; If you have the lead or the corner, Turnabout is amazing, but the lack of a reliable low and the short timer absolutely do not make it a top tier install.
Also with how you have to gather evidence, you’re kinda forced to play him on point and have assists to protect him if you really want to optimize Wright. Outside of turnabout, you’re basically playing a 2v3
@@khajiitinskyrim8874 I think to play him most effectively, him being on mid is honestly better. Having a point take the heat to set him up for success by winning the point war helps him so much. Obviously it's a gamble because if you lose, you'll be left with a Wright/Anchor shell. Some teams really appreciate him on mid tho, like Spencer/Wright/Doom. Spencer gets a guaranteed unblockable using Wright's dog assist, meaning literally any hit leads to a kill regardless of scaling and it saves a lot of meter. Spencer also appreciates being able to safe DHC out of bionic arm. Aonien runs the team, would recommend checking him out if you haven't, best Wright player imo for how he uses Wright's best attributes to their fullest.
Loved this video, thank you! Little surprised you didnt touch on hsein ko's gong at all, as thats basically her only other good tool. But all in all i really enjoyed this video, your explanations are fair and easy to understand. Subscribed!
i hate iron fist so much because who thought it was funny to make such a fun character absolute garbage 😭 i know he is bad for me but i cant stop playing him
I have to add to the dog pile on Nemesis real quick: while it's true that you can jump on super flash, you can also jump his level 3 AFTER flash too. Truly, the worst super in the game.
As someone who has had the pleasure of playing against Phoenix Wright players, help. But jokes aside, great video man! Always glad to see people talk about UMvC3, and tier talk is pretty neato
![The 50+ Cut Characters of [Ultimate] Marvel VS Capcom 3](/img/1.gif)
And somehow
Despite where phoenix wright sits
"Ive got everything i need!" Is one of the most terrifying things you can hear in this game
"I need more power!" "Leave Hulk alone!" "You're gettin' on my bad side!" Those are also scary if you're caught lacking
Gotta be one of, if not the, fgc poster child of best worst character
Iheartjustice the goat Phoenix
Pretty in character for Pheonix if you ask me
its "I've got all I need", you have to edit your comment or else I'll be forever bothered by this
"Ryu lacks anything special" is pretty on brand for Ryu.
Ryu is like Top Ramon. You're happy its there, it never tastes bad, but you'll never bring it out for special occasions.
He's definitely a stale bread, water without any ice character.
And dirt.
Ryu is my favorite character in fiction.
Yes, I do like water without any ice, how did you know?
@@orio_edible Ryu is my favorite char too.
....i lose a lot.
I like the that Phoenix Wright's weaknesses are generally so canon accurate. Like he's terrible most of the time, but his weaknesses and strengths are both so in character.
-Court cases in the actual series are incredibly stacked against the defense, and it's a big part of the commentary in the story. Being more than a low-tier hero wouldn't be in character.
-In canon, he's known for being incredibly lucky, in the way that impacts him both really positively and really negatively.
-Getting tournabout mode requires you to properly dig up dirt on the opponent, and either find a vulnerable moment in their defense or to combo into it.
-Combos into tournabout come across like the moments where Phoenix has to build up his argument slowly before getting you.
-Not all major tournabouts in Ace Attorney are case enders, sometimes a subject is able to keep the case from closing with good defense even after a minor slip up. Even being challenged to keep that momentum is in-character.
-Good play requires great teamwork and synergy with the rest of your team and I can think of a lot of moments of other characters coming in clutch and saving the case in Ace Attorney. He has a lot of moments requiring others to pull through and they often do in the most clutch situations.
It feels like a lot of the other characters were bad because they lack tools other characters have, meanwhile Wright is doomed to be low tier from the start because it would not be Ace Attorney if you weren't playing as somebody who wasn't hated by the system itself. Yet he's just barely capable of pulling through with a combination of genuine skill at getting through the opponent's defenses, teamwork, and a lot of luck.
If you want Phoenix Wright to be a top tier then make Edgeworth playable.
I will say that, due to the Active Assists of MVCI, Phoenix would’ve likely been a top tier there because you could summon Maya, have Phoenix look for evidence, then active switch to Ultron and defend Phoenix while he looks for evidence, which means that when he were to get lucky that’s a free Turnabout.
i like how every time phoenix wright is mentioned in mvc3 a fan goes in the comments and says how his playstyle and tier placement are 100% accurate to the games
@@ryvn_ryvn_18 because everyone wants to feel smart once in awhile by repeating something else they read
@@GodLovesMe69 Shhhhh they don't know that yetttt
@@ryvn_ryvn_18it's not quite "viggo mortensen breaking his toe" tier yet but it's getting close
streets need "The Mid Tiers of UMVC3". never hear anybody talk about characters like Felicia or Thor or Task Master or like Shuma
True
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Thor in a tournament set 😭😭
How much is there really to say about a mid tier? I guess some just don't think it'd be too interesting
Shuma is so much fucking fun. I main him and X Factor Mystic Smash is faster than The Flash on crack
Low-key would rather have that than "here is a bad character. They are bad. Here is why they are bad." For 36 minutes
Honestly, I have major respect for peple who upload these type of videos. Of course, it's nice to know why a character is strong but knowing why a character is bad can give a lot of insight, especially to people like me who know about certain games but don't enough to know why a character sucks. It's also nice to prevent stuff like this being lost media or just extremely difficult to find out (for example mk9 Kano has extremely little videos on him), so it's honestly great a video like this exists.
"Extremely Strong" is a very nice way of describing busted overpowered monstrosities lol
Mfs saying Virgil is just good is disrespectful, in my opinion
@@Tabletopcloud20vergil is only 5th
Remind me of 2nd Impact
>Be Hugo
>Have a true meterless infinite in the corner that works against every single characters in the game
>Is bottom tier
These games are so intriguing
@@paulakroy2635 bitch vergil counts as 4 characters
@@vivelespatat2670 You're thinking of Second Impact. Hugo is fine in Third Strike, not great but far from the worst because parries really help him
She-hulk getting nerf in UMVC3 is still a crime against humanity
Definitely..
Thank Combofiend.
She still top tier I win tournaments all the time with her ez
@@TheNaturalGamer1 Low quality bait.
@@TheNaturalGamer1 bait used to be believable
I'm still mad She-hulk got nerfed in Ultimate, just months after I got vanilla
They hit Wesker a little too hard too. I think even without nerfs, he'd still be unable to fight the top tier really like Vergil, Phoenix and Morrigan.
@@capemron6330 wesker lost his one frame special, and you have to remove glasses now to get otg solo combos. His combos scale badly.
I bet Ghost Rider would have been top tier if he'd fought entirely on his bike.
If Jill was in a anime fighter like guilty gear or blaze blue, she’d be top-tier or even just high tier, but unfortunately she’s in a Marvel game and that just doesn’t fly around here
If your wondering if Iron Fist's launcher being only grounded was intentional or not, they have a specific Iron Fist only flag within his launcher parameters specifically to only hit if the opponent is grounded. This was 100% intentional and it would have been fine if he had better tools to accommodate for this, but unfortunately he doesn't.
I'd love a follow-up on this video going over common team synergies that actually make these characters work, like IHeartJustice's team, or Sacktap's teams helping PW and Ghost Rider respectively! Because while these characters well earn their role of low tier, it's important to remember that Marvel is in fact a team building game, and seeing the interesting synergies people use to get the most out of these characters is always fascinating!
Yo this is a great video idea bro, I'd love to see that too, like, making bad characters shine with some great assists or for example using setups to stop dark phoenix
Iheartjustice is just worse than Phoniex may cry
@@paulakroy2635is phoenix may cry better because phoenix has synergy or is it better because vergil and dante are there
Papalobster has plenty of videos similar!
I like to pair Tron with Frank West. Lunch Time DHC into Frank lets me get level 4 immediately. Bad idea if either of them die independently, but it's still fun to goof around with.
As someone whose channel is devoted to Ryu UMVC3 combos (at the moment) I will like to say a few points.
For his assist value, Hadoken has a fixed hitstun meaning that the opponent can't pop out of it which is why its a great combo extension tool. His shoryuken is not used because it is more meant as an alpha counter tool which is a sorely underused mechanic in general.
In regards to his combos, he has many ways to make longer combos but as you said in your video, people only go as far as the combo you showed and don't really go for the fancier Denjin combos or double Shinku Hadoken combos. You are absolutely right about how sad he is without meter though.
As for some things that make Ryu unique, well being able to aim Shinku Hadoken up ward isn't bad as only a few characters have a super that goes straight up. His Shin Hadoken (a rarely seen super since most player rarely use his install in the first place) is able to cover the an area over his head as well as in front of and behind him (this is notable in the MorriDoom match up) if he is on the ground and below him in the air. Plus Hado Shorykun having a the most invincibility of any special move in the game allows him to blow through many supers and pressure setups. Finally, his hadoken begin slow allows him travel behind his where as his Ren Hadokens can help him play some keepaway since it can be canceled into a super. Again noting that Ryu must have meter to do things.
Ryu is honestly an honest character in a game where normal fighting game honesty is discouraged.
He's a level 5 fighter vs level 30 wizards and rogues.
Ryu is honesty in a sea of degeneracy.
So pheonix wright has a few more nuances that you never mentioned.
You can grab pw through maya shield, so playing him vs any character with a command gram, or even a character that can easily run up grab is a struggle.
The most important thing is that yes his evidence is rng, but the rng is based off of a seed that is selected at character select, and he keeps that seed until you go back to character select.
So if you got good evidence on pulls 1,2, and 4. You will keep getting good evidence on pulls 1, 2, and 4 every time you hit rematch. Conversely if you got bad evidence on first 5 pulls. You want to hit character select asap to get a new seed.
One of my friends lost to ihj at evo because of this
The CSS thing I believe is false, according to supercombo wiki in the FAQ section it's just a placebo and the seed gets updated on rematch as well
Just wanna say, I absolutely LOVE the use of Denzel Curry beats in this video. Subscribed
Iron Fist is the Little Mac of UMvC 3 except he doesn't have that stubborn group of fans that play him anyway out of love or madness.
Edit: You gotta feel bad for She Hulk. She was amazing in vanilla MvC3 and the transition to Ultimate got her badly nerfed with the changes. I dont get how they gave her such a downgrade but let the other top tiers exist.
Sparty got 5th at Evo with Iron Fist, so there's at least one dude out there
Little Mac is more likely based on the balanced of ironfist. Sakurai said he takes inspiration from umvc3
@Zergling-iq9hm little Mac in smash. Sakurai said he based balance off umvc3
Tell me you don't play the game without telling me
...?
Someone got into top 8 at evo with an iron fist team.
Justin Wong sometimes brings him out whenever he feels like clowning in pools.
And I think the entirety of Georgia has a pocket IF for someone reason, if TNS brackets are anything to go by.
Danny has his fans, they just aren't militant about it.
I remember that pretty early on people were saying, "You can just chicken block against Iron Fist and he really can't do anything to you."
And a decade later that's still all that's necessary for him to be low tier.
It fascinates me that Jill's install functions roughly the same as Bang Shishigami's FuRinKaZan in BlazBlue, but because of differences in system mechanics, Bang's is considered difficult but awesome, but Jill's is awesome but impractical.
how to fix Jill Lv. 3: give it a sick theme song
@@BronzeAgePepperJUSTICE, JUSTIIICE!🎶
I think characters like Phoenix and Frank would benefit greatly from an assist that helps with their mode change
Frank could have a photo assist that gives half xp as a downside
While Phoenix could have an assist that collects evidence in lmh order with the downside that you have to throw bad evidence away only when you control him
It’s kinda like in dbzf where characters like gogeta and base goku have assist that level them up or charge their projectile it’d be cool
It doesn't matter whether the character is top tier, mid tier or low tier. Just play the character if you like it.
It's down to how the player plays in the methotical way.
Zenpool is playing well with his Ryu.
Webberman, Mario19's Ryu is also good.
Spartanthrone's Iron Fist is also good.
And so is Abegen's Thor/Tron Bonne/She Hulk.
Even Justin Wong's Wolverine/Storm/Akuma was no where near top tier meta can still win in EVO 2014.
I agree, but tbf it's justin wong, man ran mvc2 with an iron fist😂
@@Caine187 Justin Wong also plays Iron Fist and clutch with him versus Pr Balrog
Love your instrumental/background music choices for this. Wasn’t expecting Madlib. What a pleasant surprise. Informative as always.
Another man of culture in the comments.
bro i heard the ult beat and i went to spotify to pause it and then i realized its what was playing in the video
real shit bro i thought i was trippin
He had a Madlib beat in there too. Off of Bandana.
I instantly recognized SUMO by Denzel Curry during the She-Hulk section
He also used a bunch of Cookin' Soul beats.
My goat zel🔥
Jill's lvl 3 still hasn't been figured out? It's been 20 years 😮
As a Jill player it is figured out. It’s bad, she can block so just mash when she activates it she has To go in or she loses 3 bars for no reason
you mean *can’t* block?
It's pretty much figured out. It's VERY good at resets and ground mobility. Problem is resets and ground mobility aren't very strong in MVC3.
@@zacharyjohnson9562 yea typo
iron fist and jill are basically the little macs of marvel 3.
Man, this games graphics are amazing. It's so stylish and fun to look at. And roster too, I always loved it. So many obvious, fan favorites, and obscure choices, they all mesh together to make a solid roster. (Both things that Infinite lacked...)
If you added characters to the roster like Captain Commando, Classic Mega Man, Gambit, Venom, Loki, Edward Falcon, Cyclops, Asura, Thanos, and Daredevil, then it would literally be perfect!
a Denzel Curry instrumental in an UMVC3 video was not something i was expecting to see today
Im sayin, had to check the description rq after he started talking about she hulk
Very comprehensive and some great breakdowns. Probably also worth mentioning that Nemesis only has one normal with super armour, which is his standing heavy. The fact that the 'unstoppable nemesis' only has one normal with armour, and the worst level 3, bums me out as a Nemesis main lol
great music choice for the video haha, loved hearing so many freddy gibbs instrumental in the background. great video overall!
Didn't expect to hear Cookin' Soul in a Mahvel video, but here we are
My favourite part about being a phoenix wright main is going into a match knowing and expecting to be the underdog with unmatched potential to rain fire
I lost to a Hsien-Ko in an online match once🥴. Most embarrassing wakeup call in my life. Btw I mained Ghost Rider on my team when I was in middle school. He may not be effective in comp be sure is fun.
Love all the music backing the video! My favorite characters were Deadpool Taskmaster Dormammu and Doom but this is such a great video explaining those pesky low tiers
This man has my Playlist as the background, you aint slick
To this day I am still surprised that Hesien-Ko can’t cancel her Senpu special like she can in Darkstalkers
"Ignore him"
*shows clip of sentinel moving like Z Broly was in the movie*
I've been watching your channel for a while, it has been useful for my interest as a FG player and as an aspiring Fighting Game Designer! Thank you for your hardwork
Why they gotta do Hsien Ko so dirty? 😭😭 I still remember her being my favorite character in the Darkstalkers game and was excited when she was announced in the lineup for UMVC3... then I played this super slow turtle character lacking tools needed to compensate for her lack of mobility in a game that rewards speed, getting that first hit, and long combos. Only ever seen 2 players use her for more than the Gold Armor Assist trick (still a strong trick, but that's all she gets 😂)
I love seeing Low Tiers shine. It's the reason why seeing Remy and Q in tournaments excites me but seeing Devil Jin and Dragunov doesn't.
excellent bgm choices this video!!
A modern day Umvc3 video...with Nemesis T-Type in it!?...I instantly clicked.
Yep, unfortunately Nemesis is little more than a meme these days. Even the other bottom tiers feel way better than him to play and more rewarding, there are no reasons to play Nemesis besides the noodles and looking a little cool. The video is accurate.
@@sorrydudebrosYeah, poor Nemesis got stuck with the worst set of supers in the entire game and both his normals and specials aren't much out of his tentacle using one. It's a shame.
You forgot to mention both She Hulk and Tron Boone were ran into the ground from vanilla to UMVC3.
Gustaff Fire assist did have invincibility in vanilla and that alone made Bonne a viable character. PR Rog famously got to the grand finals at EVO with her.
the denzel curry in the background is a great touch
One of the things I love about UMVC3 (and tag team fighting games in general) is that picking a low tier isn’t necessarily a death sentence to your viability as a competitive player. As long as you’ve got stronger characters on your team (Sentinel, Doom, Dante) to clean up after Phoenix Wright, Tron, Nemesis, etc, you can still find success.
Been trying to make a theoretical worst team for UMvC3 so this video has been pretty helpful. If anyone’s curious:
Point- Hsien Ko (Weapon Toss)
Mid- She Hulk (Somersault Kick)
Anchor- Wright (Paperwork)
Mediocre at best damage, bad movement, everyone is meter hungry, bad against zoning and aerial foes, Golden Hsien is pointless since her assist sucks, and good luck getting Turnabout when Wright is your last character and has no assists.
Loving the DJ premier soundtrack for Nemesis
Wait my boy Ghost Rider is a low tier? I wouldn’t have known but damn, that’s jarring
"Learns what it is like to be an outsider in rural America at night," that one caught me off guard 😆
The Piñata background music goes hard
Not that it really helps hsienko from being the worst character in umvc3 imo, her item toss isnt actually random.
Every frame it cycles items in a fixed order. So theoretically you can know what item you get... if you have the whole item list memorized and how many frames have passed since you last used it
I had never looked into this game before so you reading the list of characters on the chopping block was a slap to my face
fellow FGC/ Freddie Gibbs & Madlib enjoyer. I see you and appreciate your work bossman.
Been playing mvc3 for 7 years now (ever since I was 13) loyal tronn main to the end, I love using her with doom and sentinel. I may win 1 in 3 games, but man it is so satisfying whenever I win with her.
Nemesis has great base damage but terrible scaling? Sounds great for a scrub that can't combo.
*picks nemesis*
19:02 Ryu is just a dude in a game full of demigods and superheroes lmao
I love that Nemesis is massive and supposedly unstoppable, but he has no armor on the moves that actually matter. His level 3 and grounded normals could definitely use the DBFZ Broly treatment. He still wouldn't be *good* but it'd be something unique.
I get someone like Phoenix Wright not having the tools to consistently keep up with the rest of the cast but man, Hsien-Ko straight up feels like a hit job
Also goddamn you always have great music choices in your videos
Hsien-Ko is my favorite here. Her design is so fun, I'm just glad I'm not competitively playing this game so I don't have to worry about any of this lol.
Really well constructed and educational video! Subbed for more!
My only gripe was that for a lot of the characters, you kept talking about their damage output, but never showed the healthbars. But frustrating but overall not a big deal!
can't enjoy the video without vibing to all these instrumental choices
0:14 Honest Content mentioned!
The background music for this video is Ricky - decal curry ? lol I thought my Spotify was playing
You went crazy wit the music selection bro😭🔥😊
I will always respect Lythero for maining Phoenix Wright, every time I watch him play the character, he brings out insane magic
Not iheartjustice?
godlike instrumental selection 👌 nice video tho!
31:52
Look man, I've been around since when MVC3 Vanilla launched, and I was hyped as hell for Jill's new look and moveset, but man, I gotta say, on her level 3, I'm not sure it's unexplored at this point after all these years, I think it might just be overcosted for what it does, and thats from a person who thinks it's a sick super. Compare it to Berserker Charge, I mean damn. But Jill will still always be cool in this game.
As a long time Nemesis player, you pick up a few strats here and there.
When using Bioweapon Assault (the Hyper Combo where Nemesis shoots rockets) at the end of a combo, dash back to try and be on the other side of the screen as possible to ensure that all the rockets hit, especially on those with small or wonky hitboxes, like Arthur, Firebrand, M.O.D.O.K, Tron Bonne. The Dirty Noodles (His Forward H) will be your best ally for pressure and some combo solo combo extensions, especially when they are angled down from the air. With the proper assists, you can close in space or pressure or even mix up with a low hitting assist, like Deadpool's Katana-Rama, Wesker's Samurai Edge, She-Hulk's Torpedo.
Also one trick you can do with Nemesis is if you use the Standing Dirty Noodles and the opponent is caught crouching directly under the attack and they don't push block, you can immediately cancel it into Light Tentacle Grab and snatch them up if they are caught unaware. Also since by the time you use Light Clothesline or Rocket Slam in a combo, the damage scaling will be enough that if you use Standing Light or Crouching Medium, the opponent with air recovery and you can use Medium Tentacle Grab to snatch them up as well, especially if the opponent's character has little to no air mobility or simple is not expecting it. On the topic of Tentacle Grab, Nemesis has an infinite with it on certain characters. It's Tentacle Slam, either standing or crouching Light, and Medium Tentacle Grab. On some larger, less air mobile characters, it can be an infinite.
One last thing also is using H Rocket Slam (the one where it launches them in the air) in the corner and using the H Tentacle Slam, since the H Rocket Slam leaves them at the perfect distance to be command grabbed. This works again on characters with terrible air mobility or if they aren't expecting it.
Interdesting. Thank you for these bits of knowledge, gamer.
The fact that i saw 3 of these characters in evo 2024 top 6 speaks numbers
Hsien-Ko being made so slow in a MARVEL game is mindboggling. Whoever was working on her for Marvel must have been constantly stomped by Hsien-Ko players when playing Darkstalkers at the arcades or something.
when you said big chars were so slow as a dozen year sent player I WAS ABOUT TO BE LIKE
and then "ignore him"
i'ma sub now and kinda want that tshirt
An over 30 minute video of a fighting game I never played... PEAK
Every time I see videos like this, I am constantly reminded of how I choose low tier characters in every game completely by accident. Like I main Nemesis and Ghost Rider 😂
Ive never seen anyone use RICKY as background music, super cool
Awesome editing and real af commentary
I really like how you went out of your way and didn't sugarcoat the strengths and weaknesses of these seemingly cool characters
Having and sharing these insights keep things real and alive
I relate to this passion truly
As a pretty decent Nemesis player, I enjoyed your summary of him but there's definitely a few key details that could be mentioned!
Nemesis is an armored character like Hulk, but with Armor that is so slow it is practically useless. Where Hulk is getting armor on frame 3 (5M) or frame 6 (5H), Nemesis' armor won't protect him until frame 10 (5H) or frame 16 (2H)!! Having slow normals definitely can be an issue in this game, but Dante's are just as slow, for reference. Nemesis is more worried about his armor AND...
Nemesis can't deal with small characters!! I'm surprised this wasn't mentioned, but not only do small characters GREATLY increase the odds that the rocket launcher super messes up, but Nemesis just can't hit them. 5H will completely whiff on arthur, morrigan (crouching) etc., and 5M, one of his best pokes, can whiff too! Plus a lot of Nemesis' zoning AND approach is done via noodles - ground noodles will whiff on tons of the cast, and jumping noodles will have big deadzones to deal with, which small characters get to take advantage of. PLUS a lot of small characters can zone very effectively (the ones I mentioned above, rocket raccoon, V. Joe) - imagine you finally get in on them with this giant meatball and you can finally do something... and some of your most important options will just whiff and get you killed.
Disagree on nemesis slowness! You even make a joke that sentinel is fast, but Nemesis plink dash is just as good or better. Ground movement is NOT Nemesis' weakness, and his (regular) jump lets him control lots of space with Noodles. Against zoners none of this helps him, so your comments about having to call assist + super jump are well-founded, but his ground movement is good.
I know you weren't talking about X-factor in this video, but I'll also note that Nemesis has a very annoying issue with his x-factor, at levels 2 and 3 especially. If you're familiar with dante's x-factor 2 problem, where his sword will skip crucial animation frames, imagine that but even worse. Nemesis suddenly can barely do a j.MMHS magic series due to the way his rocket launcher animates during x-factor, meaning you have to do super delayed j.MHS series to finish combos, and his extended corner BnBs are much trickier or impossible, depending on context. EVEN worse: his light command grab (for hitting grounded opponents) doesn't reach as low, meaning a large percentage of the cast can crouch under his (GROUNDED) command grab when Nemesis is in x-factor!!
I'm also a little surprised you didn't mention his assists like you did for some other characters in this vid - they are quite underwhelming as well :p
Anyway that's it, just some insight from somebody who spent way, wayyyyyy too long playing this crappy character.
You’d think they’d have buff Ryu a bit seeing as he’s sort of the company FG mascot, but maybe the idea was to translate him from Street Fighter as one-to-one as possible?
Amazing video, also from the information it seems like Jill could be decent maybe 10 years down the line? Either way great video and got me pump for MVC2 on switch.
I have a lot of respect for the hip hop bonafides on display throughout the entire background of this video
your voice is so calming and i love the way you edit new sub good job
Nice choice of background music 🎶 you got some soul i see
12:52 This is only true in vanilla MvC3; in UMVC3 she can jump cancel both command normals.
I read somewhere that Hsien-Ko was among Yoshinori Ono's favorite characters, so it was really baffling why she was gimped hard here. She lost all her speed and momentum because the air dash became much slower, Senpu Bu (the pendulum) was uncancellable, and the complete randomness of the item toss was horrible. In D3, the move is actually much less random; you can get a stun item reliably because she always throws one after a certain item (Akuma doll). Furthermore, the bombs is a metered move with different command input, so you will NEVER throw one by random mistake. I lost count on how many times the hitbox-less bombs ruined my zoning game in UMVC3 because the bombs couldn't stop an advancing opponent.
Also, I've never seen anyone mentioned it, but in Darkstalkers 3 her gold armor actually also speeds up her ground movement because she could RUN while it's active. They really should've kept it so she can at least wave-dash during the hyper and close the distance. After all, lore-wise she was supposed to lose control and goes berserk while Mei-Ling (the talisman) was being pulled off her head.
For anyone curious, here's a sample of a high-level match by a top Hsien-Ko player in VS, and imagine the strong mid-high character she could've become:
ruclips.net/video/6nxyAXz6fMY/видео.html
I was such a huge Tron main in MVC3 but was so sad when her Gustaff Fire assist was nerfed in UMVC3
When talking about damage I wish you showed healthbars, it’s hard to get a frame of reference without them
1:15 Hmm...
Alright, now I'm interested in a Marvel 3 mod or tier list where every character has (or is assumed to have) X-Factor 24/7
That sounds like a messy nightmare
I would love to see a Tool-Assisted Jill with that level 3.
I think a point that should've been highlighted a bit more is Phoenix's Turnabout Mode. Lots of casual players will see this flashy new mode and then claim it makes Phoenix top tier, which would then make him a mid tier character overall (top tier in Turnabout, low tier outside of it). But, Turnabout isn't as much of a game changer as it seems. While he gets a fast, ground bouncing overhead move, he doesn't get a good low to compensate, with his only low still being his crouching light, which has ZERO range. It's not uncommon to see people hold up back against Phoenix in Turnabout. His zoning tools may be good to keep people out, but unless the opponent is at a life deficit and the timer is running low, there really isn't any reason to approach Phoenix. Any character with half decent mobility can wait out the timer.
This isn't to say it's bad, just severely overrated. You will very often see good Phoenix players steamroll once they get in Turnabout, but that's mainly because his buffed moves give him an actual incoming mix, something that almost every other character has without the need for an install. His damage output is insane, but that's only to compliment the very short timer on Turnabout. Typically, it doesn't matter how fast you kill a character as long as you get the kill since most optimized combos in this game will TOD.
TLDR; If you have the lead or the corner, Turnabout is amazing, but the lack of a reliable low and the short timer absolutely do not make it a top tier install.
Also with how you have to gather evidence, you’re kinda forced to play him on point and have assists to protect him if you really want to optimize Wright. Outside of turnabout, you’re basically playing a 2v3
@@khajiitinskyrim8874 I think to play him most effectively, him being on mid is honestly better. Having a point take the heat to set him up for success by winning the point war helps him so much. Obviously it's a gamble because if you lose, you'll be left with a Wright/Anchor shell. Some teams really appreciate him on mid tho, like Spencer/Wright/Doom. Spencer gets a guaranteed unblockable using Wright's dog assist, meaning literally any hit leads to a kill regardless of scaling and it saves a lot of meter. Spencer also appreciates being able to safe DHC out of bionic arm. Aonien runs the team, would recommend checking him out if you haven't, best Wright player imo for how he uses Wright's best attributes to their fullest.
Mained nemesis for as long as i can remember loved that guy
Great video accompanied by a great music selection
Denzel Curry instrumentals go hard in the background
Nice!
Loved this video, thank you! Little surprised you didnt touch on hsein ko's gong at all, as thats basically her only other good tool. But all in all i really enjoyed this video, your explanations are fair and easy to understand. Subscribed!
I have no idea why I expected Jean to be here??? No like actually she may die if you sneeze on her but she can kill your entire team for it
i hate iron fist so much because who thought it was funny to make such a fun character absolute garbage 😭 i know he is bad for me but i cant stop playing him
I wish there was a mode which disabled X-Factor entirely.
Nemesis should fight like broly. Lots of grabs and wrestling moves.
I have to add to the dog pile on Nemesis real quick: while it's true that you can jump on super flash, you can also jump his level 3 AFTER flash too.
Truly, the worst super in the game.
Just commenting to say you got some 🔥🔥🔥 music taste
@@maxlimit9129 Thanks!
I wasn't gonna comment on the music until you put in the mf Grinch beat. That was a wild ride of recognizing what song it was
bro the denzel curry beats lmao
As someone who has had the pleasure of playing against Phoenix Wright players, help.
But jokes aside, great video man! Always glad to see people talk about UMvC3, and tier talk is pretty neato
The sumo backtrack goes hard 💕🙏🔥 subscribed
a Mid Tiers vid could be fun! No one talks about the characters that are just...good. Not the best, sure. But they're still deserving of some love.