10:01 like how he says a New York without Spider-Man results in people getting mugged, people dying, crime rising by 75%, and Doc Ock continuing his experiments (which would’ve destroyed the entire city) like it’s no big deal 😭 Talk about disingenuous.
6:05 also peters life didn't really get better. May was upset with him, harry still hated him, and Mj was still getting married. The only thing that improved was his studies just like in the comics
@@srstriker6420why the hell would he do that? his promise to norman was to not tell harry about him being the goblin, who do you think finds out if the police find out 💀💀💀
This comment is much more disingenuous, his point was that the movie does a poor job conveying the effect of the absence of Spider-Man. Seriously that Newspaper is the definition of telling instead of showing.
@@BeyondTrash-xe1vs “telling instead of show” we literally see ppl get robbed, people dying, police chases, doc ock continuing his experiments (something he even points out that the cops aren’t able to stop him). These are all bad things showed directly, which he literally points out.
The actual graph is absolutely vague, it's a meaningless arrow. Besides, slapping a newspaper headline to convey world building is pretty lazy, show don't tell. Consistently convey the difference Spider-Man's absence makes.
i'm amazed to learn that originally the line didn't come directly from Ben but i think it makes the story way more impactful and it indeed became a pretty famous quote
Finally i got annoyed by this Channel when he fails to Realize Spider-Man 2 was the only movie to show the Struggles of Peter being both Spider-Man and Peter Parker and the balance and no film after it ever captured it again thank you for debunking it
Except the only thing why Peter gives up is because of simping for MJ. Sure, he has many other problems, but he only cares about MJ. He doesn't care about Aunt May who's still poor as shit and he certainly doesn't care about his best friend who lost his father.
@@ashesGeek you’re wrong, in the raindrops scene after peter gives up being spider-man, he doesn’t chase Mj right away. He starts improving himself in school and taking care of his responsibilities in his life first. He’s not gonna be financially free for both his aunt and himself in just a couple of days or weeks. He also still helps out his aunt by going to the bank and help her as much as he can.
Spider-Man 2 Peter:”I lost my powers, can’t have the woman I want, miss my classes,my best friend hates me, people hate me for doing the right thing!”(Undergoes a journey to prove it’s about the man who uses the power, not the other way around and even saves people from a burning building) MCU Peter:(the world is in danger)”But Muh MJ!”
The funny thing about Peter and Michelle's relationship is it happens with absolutely 0 setup. They barely tolerate each other in the first movie and boom they're together in the second😭😭😭😭😭
@@shantaehalf-geniehero4318Agree. It’s not implausible given the amount of time that passed between Homecoming and Infinity War for a crush to develop but if it’s never been established before then the audience won’t be naturally along for the ride
@@rsfilmdiscussionchannel4168 It's not even the fact they can't be together. It's just in the time spent with Peter & MJ since *Homecoming.* We've had no setup whatsoever, and Peter only now has a HUGE crush on her because the script said so. It was hinted in the last movie that MJ has an interest in Peter. But nowhere did it tease Peter has an interest in her.
Good video, but this proves how being comic accurate is worth infinitely less than an adaptation being engaging on its own merits. Raimi's films are great, so how much or little they change means nothing to me. More fans should realize this, but a lot care more about their preferences being validated.
14:41 "There are so many examples I could pull from, but I feel this is already enough to refute this point." Yeah, dude. I've read many Spidey comics, and even I didn't know about Aunt May's point of view with Peter, lol.
I think the biggest problem with his video is that I feel like he’s putting up a bunch of strawmen of people criticize and are overly nitpicky on other iterations of the chracther because of a preference Raimi’s Spider-man. This is in the same video where he goes on about the “true comics Spider-Man” and cherry picks the lines that work within his narrative. I think it’s pretty hypocritical since he’s doing the same thing. Justifying his subjective preferences with “objective” sources from the comics to invalidate an interpretation of the charatcher. Especially since he mainly uses the Lee and ditko era, for a movie that pulls from the romita era…. And obviously takes a lot of influence from the bendis bagely ultimate era… So ummm…?
Dude, HE ACTS LIKE IRON MAN 2(the movie were they deleted a scene of War Machine made by GENDY TARTAKOVSKI to make room to a scene where Tony goes to the toilet in his suit) IS THE 2° COMING OF CHRIST, I learn to not take him seriously anymore
Tbf that’s how the community is as a whole is. There’s rarely any good faith conversations and a lot of criticisms generally speaking are overly nitpicky.
Implicitly Pretentious never pretends to be objective and it's weird of you to interpret it that way. Every single one of his videos are opinion based, that's the entire point of his channel.
The interesting thing I think he misses is the fact that Peter eventually falls in love again (twice technically) within the comics with women he has actual chemistry with. He sees with Gwen especially before her death a truer and more fulfilling love with less problems than his “love” for Betty. That’s what makes him come to the realization that what he felt for Betty was a puppy love almost simply because she was the first to look his way. As you’ve stated, the Raimi movies set up MJ as his ideal partner/soulmate early on because of their shared history of building one another up and seeing each other for their true selves. Had the movie set up MJ to be more like Betty then his point would’ve stuck more, but he’s comparing essentially two completely different relationships to each other and trying to conflate them into being the same thing.
If I had a nickel for every time someone complained that a film adaptation of a comic, with an original storyline that wasn't a one to one adaptation of said comic, was somehow a bad thing I'd be a rich man.
His compliant on a lack of consequences for spiderman quitting is really bizarre. I don't know what more be could of wanted without bloating the movie more with unnecessary villains.
Yes, bloating with more villains. A vague graph isn't enough to the consequences of Spider-Man's side of the story where the city is more rampant with crime.
31:33 I find it rich that he puts up a clip of the MCU Peter as a mark of being more in line with the original character when some of the decisions Tom’s Peter makes are completely out of line with who both Pete and Spider-Man are at their core.
@@johnman8398 How ? peter parker wouldn't leave people to die just because of his vacation he would do his best to save them especially if he is the only one who can do it Peter parker literally made a vow to protect everyone no matter the sacrifice. Not only that but its also a dumb decision since if he doesn't save the world then he won't get his vacation since the elementals will destroy the world. and don't tell me that its because its above the usual treat he faces he literally decides to fight giant aliens in space because has he said "I can't be the friendly Neiborhood spiderman if there is no Neiborhood".
@@johnman8398 How ? Pete literally made a vow to protect everyone no matter the sacrifice. plus its a dumb decision anyways since the elementals will ruin his vacation anyways if he doesn't step in and stop them.
I have some big issues with Raimi’s Spider-Man (mainly Peter’s personality) but to say Spider-Man 2 doesn’t get Spider-Man or the comics it’s adapting is laughable. It’s still arguably the most understanding of all the live action films
Right? But this is the guy who thinks the MCU Spider-Man's mentor relationship with ironman is an accurate adaptation of his faux sibling rivalry with Johnny Storm. He generally feels like he starts with a belief and works back to justify it with out of context comic moments
32:51 Also, after webbing the words "I Love You" on the New York bridge, he snatches Gwen and swings away... so from a civillan's perspective. Spider-Man just kidnapped that random woman... and tomorrow's news. What's this? A young woman dies in a clock tower... last seen with Spider-Man... 😑 I love these movies, but dang it, they are NOT perfect.
Well, they could see her be swung to that part of the bridge. Which means Peter made it obvious Gwen is his girlfriend, which can attract attention (especially since she was just in a taxi where the driver would’ve seen her face, some taxis have cameras too).
@@s.k.4289 Also, the taxi driver she was just with enthusiastically said, "It's Spider-Man!" making it clear he's a fan. Now that I think about it, ALL of New York loves Spider-Man in TASM2. So it will be easy to put together that Gwen was his girlfriend, given his lack of guarding his identity. So they would have to leave for London. And Peter gets a new identity, Billy Braddock.
Peter leaving for England is bad enough because he still hasn’t informed the police or even the public that Oscorp was responsible for what happened to Max. He made no attempt to help Max or put an end to Oscorp after knowing they were responsible for 2 supervillains, his parents disappearing, and Max’s accident being covered. Also, his best friend is dying.
@@s.k.4289 I believe that was the one thing I couldn't wrap my head around. He would ditch his best friend to be happy with his girlfriend. While Harry was left to rot. (I get the Goblin disease doesn't kill you until you're in your late 60s. But Peter should have at least tried to help.) Stuff with Max and his parents were things I dwelled on later. But the fact he left Harry and is responsible for his transformation didn't sit right with me as a kid in theaters. Sure, he shouldn't have killed Gwen. But I'm glad they cut the part where Peter kills Harry out of rage. In context, this would've made Peter look like a monster when this is his fault, looking back on it. And instead of Sandman or The Lizard with a cure plot in NWH. It should've been Harry with Tom's Peter wanting to cure him since that's all he wanted.
His statement on “holding onto who you once were” is nonsensical. The first thing established in SM1 is Peter loves and wants to be with MJ. The end of the film he turns her down when he finally can be with her. Character growth couldn’t be clear.
That doesn't disprove what he said, is holding on to your principles, even if doesn't get you a relationship or makes your life easier, because his reponsability is more important, and at the end he gets with MJ anyway
@ but it’s HER choice. When you look at it, Spider-Man’s guilt based motivation is very self destructive. That’s why in the end they have it so MJ says to him it’s wrong to be only half alive. It’s not about clutching, it’s about openly embracing.
nice video. i actually left a comment on his video detailing everything you said a couple years back lol. really strange how people only look to the lee-ditko run to understand the character of peter parker. spider-man is more than 30 issues
Don't you find funny how the ONLY WAY MCU Spider-Man defenders try to defend & justify the flaws of that version is by attacking the other 2 live action versions & inventing/misinterpreting things of the comics(since they don't bother to talk about the videogames & cartoons) Anyway, Implicity Pretentious' DC videos are great, but their Marvel ones suck because he is an MCU Purist, they act like the MCU is the only marvel thing that exists & gets mad when other adaptations aren't a straight copy of the MCU
Also with Uncle Ben and his quote In the Spider-Man movies, there aren't any narrators, so who would be saying the line if not for a person that Peter is most connected to?
It should also be noted that while the Raimi movies do replicate the vibe and feel of the original Stan Lee + Steve Ditko/John Romita Sr. comics, a lot of plot elements and certain changes were inspired by the 90’s animated series and Brian Michael Bendis’s Ultimate Spider-Man comics. The inspiration is vast but what Raimi takes from are all valid versions of the character. While I do love the original comics (been reading them in volumes recently) I feel a lot of the changes made in the 90’s show, the Ultimate SM comics (at least most stuff before War of the Symbiote), and the Raimi films were pretty good in my opinion.
2 questions 1. Do you think Aunt May killing Peter for interfering with the elementals would be a good argument if Aunt May didn’t pack the Spider-Man suit in Peter’s luggage and was actually stern about Peter being Spider-Man instead of being a comic relief ? 2. What do you think of Implicitly Pretentious’s content ?
1. I refuse to believe Peter Parker wouldn’t save the world when needed just because Aunt May says not to (and considering she was okay with the events of Endgame and lets him be Spider-Man, she would not tell him not to go). 2. This is all I have seen so I cannot make an informed judgement.
@@s.k.4289 Most of Implicitly Pretentious' content is psychological and thematical analysis of characters from popular shows(mostly DC). He makes a lot of great content so I'd highly recommend you watch him.
And this is why I don't automatically believe in just any RUclipsr that cherry picks comic panels to prove their point. Otherwise, it'll be another Super EyePatch Wolf situation.
So what i got from this is both versions have nearly identical back stories, both are kids who are goos at heart but can be give in to the temptation to be a jerk, learn to try and help others instead of bwing spiteful, lose their powers, see the good in their personal life that comes from that but also the bad that comes societally? So they practically are the same???
Oh yeah also how was reimi peter potrayed as any better than comic peter, prior to getting his powers all he does is take a photo of MJ, talk to harry, and walk around the exhibit, and the first thing he does after getting his powers is beat up a bully (tbf he didn't know how to control his power) unless i needd to rewatch theres nothing to suggest he was a good kid corrupted by power other than he doesnt say anything spiteful
@@Ash67GrateHe didn’t want to fight him, but flash and his friends did, they even express how Peter is also wrong in the situation with uncle Ben, which is Peter’s entire motivation Edit: also he doesn’t even know he had super strength or at least enough to fling flash around like a baby, all he knew was he got buff.
Hey S.K, I have one question, do you consider this video even worse than CosmoVarietyHour SM2 video? Because this guy seems to understand spider-man as character to some extent so is wild to me how he could misunderstand the point of SM2 and came to this conclusion
My problem with the first debunked claim is trying to paint this picture that Raini Peter was being "responsible" when he left the Spider-Man life behind. Spider-Man 2 never at once paints this picture that he thought it was the reasonable thing to do, but the only thing and the option he genuinely wants. He left Spider-Man man behind in the film because he, verbatim, wants a life of his own and physically can't do it. We get confirmed this when he's discussing this with uncle Ben in his internal heart to heart. He doesn't see how Spider-Man can be done because he's literally losing the physical capability to use his powers. Not to mention, while she wasn't the only reason, the parallels between MJ and his powers are there. When he first starts losing his powers, MJ accepts John's proposal and he's forced to watch them happily together. When he gets his powers back it's after MJ attempts to kiss him and is showing interest before being kidnapped. In the comics it's all an internal force, his insecurities, fueling the act. While in the movie, the act was only even considered because of an external force, his powers leaving him. (Technically he only lost his powers because of inner turmoil, but if he never lost his powers from said turmoil he would've never stopped being Spider-Man, which is the point.) Don't see how Implicitly was wrong here (besides you know, trying to claim the Spider-Man abandonment was a responsibility thing in FFH. But he was right that it's closer to the source material in being a more internal thing.)
I did not state Peter was responsible for quitting or that it wasn’t motivated by a desire to live a normal life. I said he also thinks it is more responsible for himself because he thinks he is incapable. He doesn’t just drop any sense of responsibility.
What’s ur take on emperor zero’s hot take on miles not being spiderman and ATSV? Cuz I found he just argues why he’s a bad character and not actually why he’s not spiderman
This may not be the best take from Implicity Pretentious, but I wanted to make sure I commented here that he is a generally good RUclipsr. His DC content is especially where he has some really thoughtful and unique content.
Peter didn’t even quit in Far From Home. He just gave the glasses to Mysterio because he thought he wasn’t ready for them yet and that Mysterio would use them better. Obviously he was wrong but he’s a teenager who was manipulated by an adult.
Yeah Peter quitting in Homecoming, TASM2 and Spider man 2 only. Tobey quit in Spider man 2 because his life is getting worse and his powers are gone. Andrew quit because he let Gwen die and could not keep the promise that he made with Captain Stacy. He also blamed himself for Harry’s decent. Tom quit because Tony was telling him those words after going after Vulture, which Tom believe it was the right thing, and faced a consequence of that action. But they got back up and still became Spider-Men again.
@@malikpierre-louis3343 I believe his biggest mistake was saying, "It shouldn't be" instead of "This is the difference" for a better review on the surface-level aspect of *Spider-Man 2.* As a fan of Implicitly, I believe he needed to look at the personal narrative rather than just the overarching themes.
There is like 10 videos worth of stuff to make abotu that dude Implicitly Pretentious. Bro is seriously speaking out his ass every Spider-Man video. I once counted how many times Ben is referenced in the Dikto run and let me tell you I only counted the first 8 ish issues and it's way, way more than 4 times in the entire run as Implicitly says
THANK YOU for debunking this video! I swear this guy is an MCU fanboy. So much misconceptions and misleads in this video just to support his claim. So disingenuous and somewhat arrogant. You should see his videos on Andrew and Tom.
You really that the Raimi trilogy did more harm than good to Spider-Man in the long run as that no doubt influence the Zeb Wells run as MJ left for a nobody and to think Norman Osborn was a misunderstood person on which he was actually the Devil on earth.
@@CrocsFortress he brought out MCU Spider man as an example in his videos a lot, which includes this video, I don’t want be rude or want anything bad happen to him. All I want is for him is to not always bring out MCU Spider man as an example all the time, of showing some subtle bad faith. I already had enough of it.
I brought up MCU Spider-Man because he is directly relevant. The video stated the FFH did it better and more faithful to the comics. This is false and can be debunked by citing a clear character assassination.
@@s.k.4289 I understand your point, I hope you didn’t a bit too much about FFH. Yes FFH is a bit weaker as an second Spider-Man movie, and I know that you’re not rage baiting people who like FFH which also includes me, but I hope in your future videos, you don’t have to drag it too much. Not being rude, just a suggestion.
@malikpierre-louis3343 we're not in an argument. You asked a question and I have an answer that would be easier to understand. Do you not understand it?
@@fightingmedialounge519 you stated that his video is misunderstanding Implicitly pretentious i asked you your reasons and you deflected if its that easy to figure out explain how and why you can't say someone misunderstands something and not explain how.
10:01 like how he says a New York without Spider-Man results in people getting mugged, people dying, crime rising by 75%, and Doc Ock continuing his experiments (which would’ve destroyed the entire city) like it’s no big deal 😭 Talk about disingenuous.
6:05 also peters life didn't really get better. May was upset with him, harry still hated him, and Mj was still getting married. The only thing that improved was his studies just like in the comics
@@ascendedsavage7040you know I think he should have revealed Norman Osborn as the Green Goblin to the police
@@srstriker6420why the hell would he do that? his promise to norman was to not tell harry about him being the goblin, who do you think finds out if the police find out 💀💀💀
This comment is much more disingenuous, his point was that the movie does a poor job conveying the effect of the absence of Spider-Man. Seriously that Newspaper is the definition of telling instead of showing.
@@BeyondTrash-xe1vs “telling instead of show” we literally see ppl get robbed, people dying, police chases, doc ock continuing his experiments (something he even points out that the cops aren’t able to stop him). These are all bad things showed directly, which he literally points out.
"Vague Graph" What exactly is vague about a 75% increase? Seems pretty clear to me.
Concrete numbers are vague
The actual graph is absolutely vague, it's a meaningless arrow. Besides, slapping a newspaper headline to convey world building is pretty lazy, show don't tell. Consistently convey the difference Spider-Man's absence makes.
@@BeyondTrash-xe1vs We do see other things happening, though. S.K. pointed them out already, so I won't
i'm amazed to learn that originally the line didn't come directly from Ben but i think it makes the story way more impactful and it indeed became a pretty famous quote
no way u didn't know lol
@@blockwearingman i never read the comics so i didn't know
@ thats fine good that you know now
many don't know that don't worry lmao
Finally i got annoyed by this Channel when he fails to Realize Spider-Man 2 was the only movie to show the Struggles of Peter being both Spider-Man and Peter Parker and the balance and no film after it ever captured it again thank you for debunking it
Except the only thing why Peter gives up is because of simping for MJ. Sure, he has many other problems, but he only cares about MJ. He doesn't care about Aunt May who's still poor as shit and he certainly doesn't care about his best friend who lost his father.
@@ashesGeek you’re wrong, in the raindrops scene after peter gives up being spider-man, he doesn’t chase Mj right away. He starts improving himself in school and taking care of his responsibilities in his life first. He’s not gonna be financially free for both his aunt and himself in just a couple of days or weeks. He also still helps out his aunt by going to the bank and help her as much as he can.
Spider-Man 2 Peter:”I lost my powers, can’t have the woman I want, miss my classes,my best friend hates me, people hate me for doing the right thing!”(Undergoes a journey to prove it’s about the man who uses the power, not the other way around and even saves people from a burning building)
MCU Peter:(the world is in danger)”But Muh MJ!”
Haha.
@@gavin7599 Nah, he's right. Also, it's a movie. Not a game.
@@solivagen435 yeah I mean SM2 from Raimi not Insomniac
@@henrygambles3652 Yeah, I think the Gavin dude made a mistake.
Spider-Man caring about the people he loves, how out of character
You're saying the lives of 8 billion strangers is more important than my vacation?
The funny thing about Peter and Michelle's relationship is it happens with absolutely 0 setup. They barely tolerate each other in the first movie and boom they're together in the second😭😭😭😭😭
Yea like he mentions in the beginning of the movie he likes Michelle out of nowhere
Whenever michelle tells peter she loves him in no way home, my response is always "why?"
Yeah because it’s overrated ship as it doesn’t feel believable
@@shantaehalf-geniehero4318Agree. It’s not implausible given the amount of time that passed between Homecoming and Infinity War for a crush to develop but if it’s never been established before then the audience won’t be naturally along for the ride
@@rsfilmdiscussionchannel4168 It's not even the fact they can't be together. It's just in the time spent with Peter & MJ since *Homecoming.* We've had no setup whatsoever, and Peter only now has a HUGE crush on her because the script said so. It was hinted in the last movie that MJ has an interest in Peter. But nowhere did it tease Peter has an interest in her.
Good video, but this proves how being comic accurate is worth infinitely less than an adaptation being engaging on its own merits.
Raimi's films are great, so how much or little they change means nothing to me. More fans should realize this, but a lot care more about their preferences being validated.
14:41 "There are so many examples I could pull from, but I feel this is already enough to refute this point."
Yeah, dude. I've read many Spidey comics, and even I didn't know about Aunt May's point of view with Peter, lol.
I think the biggest problem with his video is that I feel like he’s putting up a bunch of strawmen of people criticize and are overly nitpicky on other iterations of the chracther because of a preference Raimi’s Spider-man. This is in the same video where he goes on about the “true comics Spider-Man” and cherry picks the lines that work within his narrative. I think it’s pretty hypocritical since he’s doing the same thing. Justifying his subjective preferences with “objective” sources from the comics to invalidate an interpretation of the charatcher. Especially since he mainly uses the Lee and ditko era, for a movie that pulls from the romita era…. And obviously takes a lot of influence from the bendis bagely ultimate era… So ummm…?
Dude, HE ACTS LIKE IRON MAN 2(the movie were they deleted a scene of War Machine made by GENDY TARTAKOVSKI to make room to a scene where Tony goes to the toilet in his suit) IS THE 2° COMING OF CHRIST, I learn to not take him seriously anymore
Tbf that’s how the community is as a whole is. There’s rarely any good faith conversations and a lot of criticisms generally speaking are overly nitpicky.
Implicitly Pretentious never pretends to be objective and it's weird of you to interpret it that way. Every single one of his videos are opinion based, that's the entire point of his channel.
The interesting thing I think he misses is the fact that Peter eventually falls in love again (twice technically) within the comics with women he has actual chemistry with. He sees with Gwen especially before her death a truer and more fulfilling love with less problems than his “love” for Betty. That’s what makes him come to the realization that what he felt for Betty was a puppy love almost simply because she was the first to look his way. As you’ve stated, the Raimi movies set up MJ as his ideal partner/soulmate early on because of their shared history of building one another up and seeing each other for their true selves. Had the movie set up MJ to be more like Betty then his point would’ve stuck more, but he’s comparing essentially two completely different relationships to each other and trying to conflate them into being the same thing.
This is a crossover episode I should’ve seen coming.
Negative Man Vs. Positive Captain.
If I had a nickel for every time someone complained that a film adaptation of a comic, with an original storyline that wasn't a one to one adaptation of said comic, was somehow a bad thing I'd be a rich man.
This user does have better videos when it comes to Dc and other Marvel media but this is the one acceptation where I disagree.
I agree. I still love Implicitly's content. But even then, I didn't fully embrace this critique.
I think you meant exception and acceptation.
His compliant on a lack of consequences for spiderman quitting is really bizarre. I don't know what more be could of wanted without bloating the movie more with unnecessary villains.
He doesn't seem to take into account that this is a movie on not a TV series that could have more time to explore these aspects
Yes, bloating with more villains. A vague graph isn't enough to the consequences of Spider-Man's side of the story where the city is more rampant with crime.
31:33 I find it rich that he puts up a clip of the MCU Peter as a mark of being more in line with the original character when some of the decisions Tom’s Peter makes are completely out of line with who both Pete and Spider-Man are at their core.
What decisions are completely out of line?
@@johnman8398 its discussed in the vid but basically deciding to choose his vacation instead of saving people.
@@malikpierre-louis3343That's not out of line with his character though.
@@johnman8398 How ? peter parker wouldn't leave people to die just because of his vacation he would do his best to save them especially if he is the only one who can do it Peter parker literally made a vow to protect everyone no matter the sacrifice. Not only that but its also a dumb decision since if he doesn't save the world then he won't get his vacation since the elementals will destroy the world. and don't tell me that its because its above the usual treat he faces he literally decides to fight giant aliens in space because has he said "I can't be the friendly Neiborhood spiderman if there is no Neiborhood".
@@johnman8398 How ? Pete literally made a vow to protect everyone no matter the sacrifice. plus its a dumb decision anyways since the elementals will ruin his vacation anyways if he doesn't step in and stop them.
I would argue Tobey's characterization is the most accurate to the comics
I have some big issues with Raimi’s Spider-Man (mainly Peter’s personality) but to say Spider-Man 2 doesn’t get Spider-Man or the comics it’s adapting is laughable. It’s still arguably the most understanding of all the live action films
Right? But this is the guy who thinks the MCU Spider-Man's mentor relationship with ironman is an accurate adaptation of his faux sibling rivalry with Johnny Storm. He generally feels like he starts with a belief and works back to justify it with out of context comic moments
32:51 Also, after webbing the words "I Love You" on the New York bridge, he snatches Gwen and swings away... so from a civillan's perspective. Spider-Man just kidnapped that random woman... and tomorrow's news. What's this? A young woman dies in a clock tower... last seen with Spider-Man... 😑 I love these movies, but dang it, they are NOT perfect.
Well, they could see her be swung to that part of the bridge. Which means Peter made it obvious Gwen is his girlfriend, which can attract attention (especially since she was just in a taxi where the driver would’ve seen her face, some taxis have cameras too).
@@s.k.4289 Also, the taxi driver she was just with enthusiastically said, "It's Spider-Man!" making it clear he's a fan. Now that I think about it, ALL of New York loves Spider-Man in TASM2. So it will be easy to put together that Gwen was his girlfriend, given his lack of guarding his identity. So they would have to leave for London. And Peter gets a new identity, Billy Braddock.
Peter leaving for England is bad enough because he still hasn’t informed the police or even the public that Oscorp was responsible for what happened to Max. He made no attempt to help Max or put an end to Oscorp after knowing they were responsible for 2 supervillains, his parents disappearing, and Max’s accident being covered. Also, his best friend is dying.
@@s.k.4289 I believe that was the one thing I couldn't wrap my head around. He would ditch his best friend to be happy with his girlfriend. While Harry was left to rot. (I get the Goblin disease doesn't kill you until you're in your late 60s. But Peter should have at least tried to help.) Stuff with Max and his parents were things I dwelled on later. But the fact he left Harry and is responsible for his transformation didn't sit right with me as a kid in theaters. Sure, he shouldn't have killed Gwen. But I'm glad they cut the part where Peter kills Harry out of rage. In context, this would've made Peter look like a monster when this is his fault, looking back on it. And instead of Sandman or The Lizard with a cure plot in NWH. It should've been Harry with Tom's Peter wanting to cure him since that's all he wanted.
16:55 A teenager holding resentment against the kids that bully him doesn't make him a jerk, it makes him normal.
His statement on “holding onto who you once were” is nonsensical.
The first thing established in SM1 is Peter loves and wants to be with MJ.
The end of the film he turns her down when he finally can be with her. Character growth couldn’t be clear.
That doesn't disprove what he said, is holding on to your principles, even if doesn't get you a relationship or makes your life easier, because his reponsability is more important, and at the end he gets with MJ anyway
@ but it’s HER choice.
When you look at it, Spider-Man’s guilt based motivation is very self destructive. That’s why in the end they have it so MJ says to him it’s wrong to be only half alive. It’s not about clutching, it’s about openly embracing.
nice video. i actually left a comment on his video detailing everything you said a couple years back lol. really strange how people only look to the lee-ditko run to understand the character of peter parker. spider-man is more than 30 issues
Don't you find funny how the ONLY WAY MCU Spider-Man defenders try to defend & justify the flaws of that version is by attacking the other 2 live action versions & inventing/misinterpreting things of the comics(since they don't bother to talk about the videogames & cartoons)
Anyway, Implicity Pretentious' DC videos are great, but their Marvel ones suck because he is an MCU Purist, they act like the MCU is the only marvel thing that exists & gets mad when other adaptations aren't a straight copy of the MCU
Also with Uncle Ben and his quote
In the Spider-Man movies, there aren't any narrators, so who would be saying the line if not for a person that Peter is most connected to?
First time I'm seeing an IP debunk.
21:53 CRY MOMENTS
That’s right pimpin
It should also be noted that while the Raimi movies do replicate the vibe and feel of the original Stan Lee + Steve Ditko/John Romita Sr. comics, a lot of plot elements and certain changes were inspired by the 90’s animated series and Brian Michael Bendis’s Ultimate Spider-Man comics. The inspiration is vast but what Raimi takes from are all valid versions of the character. While I do love the original comics (been reading them in volumes recently) I feel a lot of the changes made in the 90’s show, the Ultimate SM comics (at least most stuff before War of the Symbiote), and the Raimi films were pretty good in my opinion.
I haven't watched in a while and wow how the tables turned, you're really going at this well now S.K, good job!
Appreciated 👍
Man, just got reminded of 5 years ago drama💀
Sounds like he didn't watch the movie
2 questions
1. Do you think Aunt May killing Peter for interfering with the elementals would be a good argument if Aunt May didn’t pack the Spider-Man suit in Peter’s luggage and was actually stern about Peter being Spider-Man instead of being a comic relief ?
2. What do you think of Implicitly Pretentious’s content ?
Comic relief?
@@dylansharp8471 Aunt May is treated like a joke in the MCU Spider-Man movies. She’s mostly there for characters to say she’s attractive.
1. I refuse to believe Peter Parker wouldn’t save the world when needed just because Aunt May says not to (and considering she was okay with the events of Endgame and lets him be Spider-Man, she would not tell him not to go).
2. This is all I have seen so I cannot make an informed judgement.
@@s.k.4289 Most of Implicitly Pretentious' content is psychological and thematical analysis of characters from popular shows(mostly DC).
He makes a lot of great content so I'd highly recommend you watch him.
28:37 I wish we had more Spider-Men like this
And this is why I don't automatically believe in just any RUclipsr that cherry picks comic panels to prove their point. Otherwise, it'll be another Super EyePatch Wolf situation.
Why is Spidey getting alot of hate these days
Because it all sucks now especially these fucking games
So what i got from this is both versions have nearly identical back stories, both are kids who are goos at heart but can be give in to the temptation to be a jerk, learn to try and help others instead of bwing spiteful, lose their powers, see the good in their personal life that comes from that but also the bad that comes societally? So they practically are the same???
Oh yeah also how was reimi peter potrayed as any better than comic peter, prior to getting his powers all he does is take a photo of MJ, talk to harry, and walk around the exhibit, and the first thing he does after getting his powers is beat up a bully (tbf he didn't know how to control his power) unless i needd to rewatch theres nothing to suggest he was a good kid corrupted by power other than he doesnt say anything spiteful
@@Ash67GrateHe didn’t want to fight him, but flash and his friends did, they even express how Peter is also wrong in the situation with uncle Ben, which is Peter’s entire motivation
Edit: also he doesn’t even know he had super strength or at least enough to fling flash around like a baby, all he knew was he got buff.
@@luafamily what was the need for the edit? I myself said he was unaware of his strength
@@Ash67Grate fair
Another amazing video S.K., great job. Also just wondering here, what’s your ranking of the Spider-Man movies worst to best?
ATSV
SM1
ITSV
SM2
SM3
HC
TASM
TASM2
FFH
NWH
@@s.k.4289a few I disagree with but not enough to debate and get mad about.
The slaughter train has arrived.
How do you make so many videos so fast?
Lightspeed
Hey S.K, I have one question, do you consider this video even worse than CosmoVarietyHour SM2 video? Because this guy seems to understand spider-man as character to some extent so is wild to me how he could misunderstand the point of SM2 and came to this conclusion
My problem with the first debunked claim is trying to paint this picture that Raini Peter was being "responsible" when he left the Spider-Man life behind.
Spider-Man 2 never at once paints this picture that he thought it was the reasonable thing to do, but the only thing and the option he genuinely wants.
He left Spider-Man man behind in the film because he, verbatim, wants a life of his own and physically can't do it. We get confirmed this when he's discussing this with uncle Ben in his internal heart to heart. He doesn't see how Spider-Man can be done because he's literally losing the physical capability to use his powers.
Not to mention, while she wasn't the only reason, the parallels between MJ and his powers are there. When he first starts losing his powers, MJ accepts John's proposal and he's forced to watch them happily together. When he gets his powers back it's after MJ attempts to kiss him and is showing interest before being kidnapped.
In the comics it's all an internal force, his insecurities, fueling the act.
While in the movie, the act was only even considered because of an external force, his powers leaving him. (Technically he only lost his powers because of inner turmoil, but if he never lost his powers from said turmoil he would've never stopped being Spider-Man, which is the point.)
Don't see how Implicitly was wrong here (besides you know, trying to claim the Spider-Man abandonment was a responsibility thing in FFH. But he was right that it's closer to the source material in being a more internal thing.)
I did not state Peter was responsible for quitting or that it wasn’t motivated by a desire to live a normal life. I said he also thinks it is more responsible for himself because he thinks he is incapable. He doesn’t just drop any sense of responsibility.
What’s ur take on emperor zero’s hot take on miles not being spiderman and ATSV? Cuz I found he just argues why he’s a bad character and not actually why he’s not spiderman
This may not be the best take from Implicity Pretentious, but I wanted to make sure I commented here that he is a generally good RUclipsr. His DC content is especially where he has some really thoughtful and unique content.
7:10
The story he's describing here sounds like hot garbage
Very good debunking
Peter didn’t even quit in Far From Home. He just gave the glasses to Mysterio because he thought he wasn’t ready for them yet and that Mysterio would use them better.
Obviously he was wrong but he’s a teenager who was manipulated by an adult.
Yeah Peter quitting in Homecoming, TASM2 and Spider man 2 only.
Tobey quit in Spider man 2 because his life is getting worse and his powers are gone.
Andrew quit because he let Gwen die and could not keep the promise that he made with Captain Stacy. He also blamed himself for Harry’s decent.
Tom quit because Tony was telling him those words after going after Vulture, which Tom believe it was the right thing, and faced a consequence of that action.
But they got back up and still became Spider-Men again.
Wait y'all okay?
I hated this Implicitly pretentious video.
What do you at least think of his videos in his channel ?
@@comicbookking3446 his other vids are decent. I just think this one misses the mark.
@@malikpierre-louis3343 I believe his biggest mistake was saying, "It shouldn't be" instead of "This is the difference" for a better review on the surface-level aspect of *Spider-Man 2.* As a fan of Implicitly, I believe he needed to look at the personal narrative rather than just the overarching themes.
Yea just stick to DC lil bro
Lol
14:50
This Implicitly dude is just straight up lying
can you debunk Cosmonaut Variety Hour's far from home video
I debunk videos that have chunks of misinformation or inherently flawed claims, not just reviews I disagree with.
There is like 10 videos worth of stuff to make abotu that dude Implicitly Pretentious. Bro is seriously speaking out his ass every Spider-Man video. I once counted how many times Ben is referenced in the Dikto run and let me tell you I only counted the first 8 ish issues and it's way, way more than 4 times in the entire run as Implicitly says
THANK YOU for debunking this video! I swear this guy is an MCU fanboy. So much misconceptions and misleads in this video just to support his claim. So disingenuous and somewhat arrogant. You should see his videos on Andrew and Tom.
Wtf i used to watch this guy he akways seemed to have good analysis abt dc adaptations wtf is this he did not cook in this
You Cooked
Thanks 🔥
@ Anytime
Look who FINALLY showed up pimpin
😂
@@s.k.4289have you seen joker 2 yet? If so, what’re your thoughts. I think I’m the only one who kind of agrees with Colin.
Joker 2 is bad
@@s.k.4289 Interested to see why you think so.
omg i did watch this guy i remember
You really that the Raimi trilogy did more harm than good to Spider-Man in the long run as that no doubt influence the Zeb Wells run as MJ left for a nobody and to think Norman Osborn was a misunderstood person on which he was actually the Devil on earth.
Hot take but I like the MCU Spider-Man films better than the Rami ones. I think are pretty underrated. The Spiderverse movies however are the goats.
I respect your Opinion, but SK already duck on the MCU Spider-Man enough, so I hope he doesn’t bring out MCU Spider-Man on discussion all the time.
Same. Far from home was the worst though. I like the first and last one though.
Hey i know this guy. I watched a lot of his video essays on dc and stuff.
Sad to see man. Sad to see.
W
SK, can you not bring the MCU Spider-Man in discussion next time, because I just think you’ve already have done enough with it.
I mean the video brought up MCU Spider-Man as an example.
@@CrocsFortress he brought out MCU Spider man as an example in his videos a lot, which includes this video, I don’t want be rude or want anything bad happen to him. All I want is for him is to not always bring out MCU Spider man as an example all the time, of showing some subtle bad faith. I already had enough of it.
@@nishchayjain1121 My guy the video he's responding to brought up MCU Spider-Man as an example first is he supposed to just not respond to that?
I brought up MCU Spider-Man because he is directly relevant. The video stated the FFH did it better and more faithful to the comics. This is false and can be debunked by citing a clear character assassination.
@@s.k.4289 I understand your point, I hope you didn’t a bit too much about FFH. Yes FFH is a bit weaker as an second Spider-Man movie, and I know that you’re not rage baiting people who like FFH which also includes me, but I hope in your future videos, you don’t have to drag it too much.
Not being rude, just a suggestion.
Seems more like this video is misunderstanding what implicitly pretentious is saying(which is a bit ironic)
explain how ?
@@malikpierre-louis3343 just watch implicitly pretentious video.
@@fightingmedialounge519 "that's not how argumentation works.
@malikpierre-louis3343 we're not in an argument. You asked a question and I have an answer that would be easier to understand. Do you not understand it?
@@fightingmedialounge519 you stated that his video is misunderstanding Implicitly pretentious i asked you your reasons and you deflected if its that easy to figure out explain how and why you can't say someone misunderstands something and not explain how.