Checkerboard Formation Explained
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- If you want to send me your disaster campaigns email it here. totalwarlegend@gmail.com
Please only send campaigns on the verge of defeat. Modded campaigns are not currently accepted.
Check out Instant Gaming for some great deals on Total War products. www.instant-ga... Remember to check if the key is region locked before purchasing!
Check out some awesome artwork at Displate and help support the channel displate.com/c...
Use this code "legend" for 15% site wide.
Please note this is an unofficial video and is not endorsed by SEGA or the Creative Assembly in any way. For more information on Total War, please visit www.totalwar.com
High elves are a proud warrior race and by refusing to use a staunch line of spears you are disgracing the race. You should be ashamed of yourself for constantly min/maxing the game to intentionally destroy yours and your viewer's immersion. The AI is designed to give the player a challenge not to be abused by a scummy cheeser with no respect to the units and lore provided by GW.
I have been destroyed.
Nice b8 m8
Lmao
The elves are now using their shiv-check, laser beams-check, bodybags-check, daggers-check. Pretty much anything they can get their hands on to stop being harrassed by the mamas boy who keeps ruining their lawns. And the keep their lives from being ended by murmaids:)!
@@LegendofTotalWar Checkmate!
Dunno why he called the checkerboard cheese. It's a legit, actual formation that makes logical and tactical sense. Probably one of the least cheesy things Legend has done that's also very effective.
The Romans used it in real life. Weakest troops in the front to tire the enemy out, best troops in the back.
Putting them in the corner makes it cheese
@@R3GARnator Damn partian cheese! - Crassus at Carrhae
@@R3GARnator Even that is good in the game, weak forces go in to weaken and exhaust the enemy, strong forces go in to mop up
He ironies on the people who say he has no honor or balls because strategy it's cheese.
Meanwhile I forget to turn off Skirmish while doing Checkerboard formation and the whole thing goes to shit
You can go in to options and have it be turned off as a default setting.
@@IonAeon holy, thanks, that will help a lot
@@IonAeon That's actually really nice because usually Skrimish just ruins everything.
@@remito7839 I've played total war since I was a kid and I've always hated skirmish mode. fuck skirmish mode. even on horse archers.
KhayyamAurelius yessir fuck skirmish all my homies hate skirmish
Apparently any tactic beyond lining up in a single line and bumrushing the enemy is considered cheese.
Yeah people get salty if he doesn’t rush in. People get salty if he does. Can’t win on the internet, RUclips chief of all lol.
@rockn roll If it works, it's not a poor tactic.
@Doven Ro Galus I've been playing Total War games for 20 years since Shogun1, and I accept that given the limited nature of the map you can't always use terrain as a natural blocker as you would and the map edge makes a decent substitute. If it were more open, you'd simply back up to a river or a hill. If it was an "exploit" they'd have removed sometime in the last 20 years. But thanks for sharing your extensive experience, opinion and lack of imagination.
Doven Ro Galus Thats just effective strategy. Exploits used to be considered a bug in the game that could be taken advantage of, but now anything that makes the game easier is considered an exploit or cheese anymore 😕
@Doven Ro Galus if ca didn't like it they could change the visuals of the edge of each map so there is a physical barrier as well as an invisible one, the maps still have to be square and a certain size. Also playing on the side of the map can be just as bad for the player, if any of your units route u lose them instantly
"It's a cheese!" Said Napoleon when Wellington arranged his troops in squares offset like this. Legitimate tactic I say.
yeah checkerboard formation is not cheese corner camping is cheese though
@@winterchamois2399 Yeah but that's not a requirement to make checker board work tho. It simply make it more effective. And it's not a 100% cheese, it's the same as if you placed your toops next to a river or a cliff, it's basically a natural barier.
Oh don't worry legend. There will be one or two people that ask again on your livestream about how checkerboard formation work
if at least was just one or two XD
Now he can point out a video to them, not explain the whole thing all over again
Raven We all know they’ll still keep asking lol
Yeah but at least chat can post this link
"But legend, it's cheeeeese!" ...what do people think strategy is?
The Art of War is just a cheese compilation.
"People" think, that strategy consist of smashing two lines against each other until either collapses. Average denizen of "people" has about as much common sense as an Ork.
IDK, but IMO cheese as opposed to strategy is that cheese is pretty much only effective vs AI, while strategy is useful vs all opponents. This goes deeper than just something like checkerboard formation though, as the AI has terrible marco strategy and gets compensated for that by having raw stat increases.
Someone think corner camping is strategy lol xD
strategy is cheese and cheese is strategy
One of the best early-game armies. I wonder if "tier 1 doomstacks" video has already been done.
Low-tier doomstacks:
Empire: Archers
Bretonnia: Peasant Bowmen.
High Elves: Archers (w/o armor)
Wood Elves: Darkshards.
Dark Elves: Glade Guard.
Dwarfs: Quarrellers.
OnG: Goblin Archers
Tomb Kings: Skeleton Archers... if applicable.
V.Counts: Not applicable, spam free skeletons.
Norsca: Berserkers
Skaven: Slaves with slings.
Lizardmen: No idea tbh.
V.Coast: Bloated Corpses. :p
Warriors of Chaos: Dont bother.
MinscS2 the Lizardmen one is to play as Itza and use Gor Rok and Kroak. It’s all you need
actually it sucks horribly for eltharion , no jokes. Terrible army choice. Go with lothern sea guard - no need for shield version , tier 2 aint asking too much. Why ? Because he gives + 8 discipline and + 8 to defence to spear units and they start rank 3 aswell , on top of that his buff is even more useful for units that can do some fighting. I know I used them , basically they are so strong under him they could last till end game.
@@MinscS2 i think you messed up wood elves and dark elves a bit.
The correct name is * cough cough* poorstacks :P
You know, it took me quite a while to get used to using Generals as a tank. I was used to old TW games and keeping the General safe, maybe using him in dire circumstances or to flank and break units already engaged in melee. But I have to say I quite like having these "epic heroes" on the battlefield.
That makes the game less of an RTS and more of a MoBA, IMO. DoW series suffered from it, resulting hero in DoW3 soloing many squads of enemies by himself. Which de-emphasized RTS part and made the game battle arena-esque instead.
yes, it's very nice that the major cornerstone fo your army's leadership is cable of prolonged combat, at least in most cases in TWWH.
Funny, though i normally have my generals running around killing everything they can or can not, sometimes engaging their heavy cavallerie so my infanterie/missiles/ other cavallerie can destroy their infanterie... OF course in most of the campaigns i lose so many generals and family memebers that i fastly iam out of them lol ...
Their is allways a charged to be made, only to lose our general in last second... hahah... So either i win spectacular or lose or win but lose my general/generals ... :)) Since generals regenerate troops really fast in the older TV games specially... hahaha...
Normally i level my generals really fast though... since they suffer so many casulties and kill so many ... But yeah if they die to fast ... The battle is often over ...
This mostly only applies to Campaign though.
Try this recklessly in the Multiplayer battle and the general will be melted instantly.
@@majormononoke8958 In TWM2, I always use my general to waste enemy ammo. So what if I lose half his bodyguard? Now, their archers have to fight me in melee. This does only work in early game (late game arty/longbows/guns will wreck an exposed general) but by that time I own a large empire and can afford to lose troops.
It's not even cheese! That is exactly how armies fought between the high middle ages and the renaissance, when you had checkerfields of "porcupines", i.e. a mix of pikemen and early gunpowder units. Proven and true technique ;)
Yes, everyone knows the dirty romans won the punic wars by corner camping so that Hannibal couldn't outflank them and so that his soldiers would route off the battlefield faster.
You are a bit off with the timeline . Checkerboard formation was started to be used during the late medieval and reinessance era (pike and shot).
Also corner camping was a thing in history , though you would dig a trench on your flanks (or have some natural obstacles) instead of having some invisible borders . One distinct diffrence is that the opposing army always had more options than you have ingame .
@@pp-wo1sd True! Oftentimes rivers would be used for this purpose.
u referring to the spanish tercio?
@@Asmodeity battle of thermopylae is a good example of corner camping.
Another benefit is that in a line your units in the middle can only go forward or backwards, but when checkboarded most of your units can move in 4 directions which is a huge manoeuvre advantage.
can you advise what keyboard controls to use to make the group move like legend does? i.e. when he selects the consecutive units to then move to create the formation. When I try to move them it just moves them into a new line? Thanks
@@mattdanielc select all, hold alt, drag
It helps to have Eltharion. Grim Resolve gives your entire army Martial Mastery, except it lasts all the way down to 25% health. That, plus the constant ammo replenishment, makes his basic tier 1-2 armies exceptionally resilient.
Grim Resolve belongs to Volkmar I think. This is 'Grim Discipline'
and he can fly + heal himself
how exactly do you get that "constant ammo replenishment"? I could have sworn people said it was the Vampire Coast bonus but that's their "extra damage at high ammo"
@@nicolinrucker5181 It's a skill in Eltharion's skill tree called "Unending Volley". Gives his army's ranged units a passive ammo replenishment. Recovers ammo every 25 seconds, I think.
Damn good video Legend. Thanks for teaching the n00bs the checkerboard formation and just showing how effective it really is.
Appreciate you
"Make sure your worst archers are in the front"
You mean lothern seaguards?
I mean that is the best value you could get out of them, doing ranged damage where a melee unit couldn't, and putting up a better melee fight than a pure archer.
I wonder if the Dwarf equivalent uses Ironbreakers at the front, and then a bunch of thunderer squares behind.
@@ingold1470 Thunderers can't arc their shots nearly as much as archers or crossbowmen. They do use guns after all. Checkerboards don't work well with guns in the back lines.
Lothern sea guard are by far the high elves best early game unit. Building straight to a full stack, allows you to then switch half to sisters of avelon later and use the sea gaurd as front line troops. Plus having range units with shields are pretty strong just saying.
I doubt you will ever read this Legend, but I just wanted to say thank you for your help/tips and tricks. Ive learned so much from your videos and I was able to actually defeat 3 armies with my one army recently for my first time. So keep up the good work ya bastard.
love how the tabletop game's most elite maneuvers carry over to WHTW, though this used to be a skaven slave strat because high elves would just cost too many points to do it in a standard 2k match
Well Skaven are also the only ones in table top that can fire at their own units when they are engaged in melee.
Romans used this tactic. As Legend says, it's situational. Theory is that while the enemy might outnumber the Romans the Romans let them run past their columns and in so doing the enemy was being flanked on all sides because they were in the turtle formation and could throw their pilas from all directions. This also meant that the Romans would risk this because they were confident in their discipline because in this formation everyone is flanked essentially.
Romans were only in turtle formation when sieging or when dealing with an archer only army, in neither case would the enemy be funneled into the gaps of the checkerboard. Additionally, it was not possible to throw pila from turtle formation.
yea he was talking about how this is one of the only total war games where this tactic actually does what it's supposed to do, doesn't work in rome and rome 2.
@@Jakromha Yes and no. The Romans did use that tactic in a couple major battles, and it was a favorite of Scipio Africanus who really brought it to the spotlight. However, historical evidence for widespread use of the tactic after Zama is lacking, indicating that it was used up until the Second Punic War. During that time, the Romans employed more pikes and swords. However as pila became more prevolent, a roman checkerboard faded away, because again, it was impossible to throw pila and it constricted the larger armies, making them open to being flanked. This is the primary reason the Romans lost at Zama, which again was the last major battle with it's recorded use.
That sounds like rubbish. The testudo was primarily an anti-archer formation (it could be used in close combat and was effective but it also makes it somwhat more difficult to fight hand to hand and there were better setups) and what you're saying remind me of a joke misquote (that goes something like ""we're surrounded" "good, now we can shoot in any direction and still hit something!""). What you're describing doesn't sound like a legitimate military tactic (although that's not to say noone ever found themselves in a similar situation or that your description isn't simply slightly off but describing a similar thing).
@@nautamaterram I've never heard of Romans using pikes.
tbh i dont see how this is "cheese". its just a good formation
You see, anything except recruiting full melee armies on legendary and charging them uphill is cheese (c) naysayers
Generally I agree. Combining it with corner camping however is some really lactose heavy shit.
@@andrewgodly5739 It's true. There is no honor in war. Only winning matters.
Yeah it's certainly opened my eyes up to its value.
Corner camping is typically seen as cheese because on the map it doesn't look like anything should stop movement there, except the game mechanic. Although one piece of artillery will erase a corner camper.
Damn, a whole video. You went 120 percent on fulfilling that promise.
bUt lEGeNd iT's cHeEsE
I'm pretty sure the Greeks and Romans did this with their units. If it's done historically it's not cheese
Greeks didn't, well the ancient Greeks didn't, since the hoplite/pike phalanx couldn't support the checkerboard formation at all. But the Romans certainly did with the Polybian Legions, triplex acies etc. because engaged front line units couldn't be wrapped by the enemy because charging second line units was used as a Damocles' sword over the enemy's head. The HRE also did (in a way) with the introduction/perfection of the tercio.
They did it with melee, not range only
It's cheese because it abuses the garbage AI. Then again that makes everything you do cheese.
@@masondouglas99 well their melee units had ranged, and atleast some manuels describe the pilum as the true main weapon of legionaries, the gladius is just to finish the job.
@@matthiuskoenig3378 wat thats imposible, the pila was not even think to kill, but to make useless the shields of the enemy, and it was only efective against the first enemy line
"A technique that has existed for a long time" Yep! about 2000 years. The Triplex Acies i think it was called, Roman checkerboard formations were OP in the ancient world too!
deity 93 To be more accurate: The checkerboard formation itself is called the Quincunx. The Triplex Acies is referring to the 3 lines Roman armies would deploy during Polybian & Marian Legion days. It helps that he’s using both here.
um pretty sure triplex was way before marian days lmao. yes 3 lines but they stopped using hastatiis and tararris and princpes because of marius reforms that revolutionized the army and they pretty much used manipular system which was what the legions used for most of it life til later reforms. but the tactic wasn't op to pikes, why they changed it.
Armies did not fight in this formation. They closed the distance with it. If they did use this formation the dudes on the front would get flanked and destroyed if the second line troops did not move in to close the gaps.
Knights who say NI Well, you pulled that out of your ass.
@@jax2728 THIS, people actually don't know what they are talking about when it comes to Roman tactics.
The Manipular Formation used to its finest extent. Rome would be proud XD
indeed
Actual footage of Julius Ceasar using checker board ranks, circa 50 B.C.E. Gauls declared it to be "cheesy bullcrap."
This is super effective with Sea Guard with Shields. It's essentially an imitation of roman legions at that point, the inventors of the checkerboard strategy. I do it all the time with high elves, it's awesome. Makes me really hyped to build empires.
"Box formations are cheese" - Napoleon probably
indeed
"But Legend, that's Cheese!"
The real cheese is doing the after-care, healing your single entity units and chasing down trolls for exp and to eliminate them from the army! Good win!
Ever since seeing you do checker boarding, i have done checker boarding for 90% of my fights that are not sieges lmao
10:00: Uh. I'm the first person to complain about cheese, but I'm pretty sure that this is a legitimate tactic
"but legend that's cheese"
ah yes, the good old you cheated because your unit formation gave you an unfair advantage position.
any _proper_ English WW1 general can tell you that the only way to win would be a fair and honorably frontal charge.
Next you will be telling me to position on a hill so their cavalry get tired charging up the slope or something. _The nerve._
it's cheese because it utilises the limitations of the game engine, the equivilent is if the french had put up a magical barrier over belgium forcing the germans to go through the maginot.
the formation in itself isn't that cheesy except for utilising spam.
Did you know? The devs so thoughtfully created an anti-cheese measure of limiting you to 20 units per army, because they KNEW, having more units than the enemy on the field is cheese. You can just surround them, and that wouldn't be fair! And if we know anything about war, it's that it should always be fair.
@rockn roll jesus, its just a damn game and a damn pve mode :O
@@EvlNinjadude i'm not defending EA here, i rgeatly prefered how it was in the earlier games were you could bring in additional troops to support you under the command of the ai
@rockn roll legend is because he plays at legendary difficulty
But legend it's cheese XDDD
Yes it is and Jeff demands it °^°
This is a real tactic. It's not cheese.
@@DoctaFlood Practical defence in depth: military tactics & strategy 101.
@@DoctaFlood in case the 'XDDD' didn't throw you off, this comment is sarcasm in its purest form
I think that a lot of the time you use tactics that are considered "cheese" and you never try to deny it. But I would say the checkerboard pattern is just smart unit alignment. The AI already gets enough of a boost on the highest difficulty so I dont see why you would build an army in the classic sense of a shielded front line when it likely fails anyways. So for me in this case, I would disagree that the checkerboard is cheese even a little bit. Love the content :)
The basic idea of being in command is to reduce your losses while achieving a victory, with the best possible battle victory being a battle that is won without fighting. For that sense any general, admiral or whatever type of command position is leading a army is obligated to use every possible advantage.
A clean and fast victory is not only reducing your losses, but in the best scenario even the losses of your enemy. (in games this is obviously different, especially in fantasy, where species are on the way to kill each other off completely).
-
In that sense there is no "cheese". Only tactics and strategy. Corner camping is mixed situation. It is a result of game mechanics, yet in terms of tactics it is just like position yourself on a cliff, so the enemy has a hard time reaching you.
-
I mean, people have always complained about certain ways to play. Just imagine a FPS title, and you playing a sniper. And then people "accuse" you of camping. Which is literally what a sniper is supposed to do. Or any soldier who is tasked with protecting something. You look for a nice defensive spot and stay there as long it gives you an advantage.
That's not cheese, that's tactical thinking and acting.
-
If you don't want your opponent corner camp (this applies to multiplayer), then don't attack. If you are defending, wait until your opponent is moving towards you. Even with a melee purist army (in TW:WH) you don't have to attack unless you are the offensive one. And on most maps you can position yourself outside of their shooting range. In campaign mode, especially in singleplayer it doesn't even matter. There's no competition that needs you to play balanced. (Here we are at: using your advantages and do not play into your enemies advantages)
-
Balance shouldn't be a thing unless it is a game mode that is played competitive. Otherwise balance is often preventing or in conflict with RPG-elements.
(Sorry for that long talk. One sentence leads to another and that leads to suffering which leads to the dark side which leads to utter random stuff coming out of my keyboard.)
Hey wich key do you use to move the troops like in min 4:56
Hold ALT and click-drag.
Is that even cheese? It's essentially just the square formation of later muzzle v muzzle warfare.
So a military tactic legitimately used in real life warfare.
the formation he uses isn't cheese, the corner camping he uses is cheese
I remember you commenting on just how effective chequerboard was for the Dwarves during your competition...it solved so many issues for units that need to move less. Did you ever try that Skaven artillery spambtw? It almost worked in the Comp if he hadn't had them in a single line.
Problem with skaven is that they have very flat balistic for both Ratlings and jezzails, which reduce the effectiveness of checkerboard. Imo it's better to leave them in a firing line and use single entities heroes or doomwheels to tank while the gunners whittle everything down.
@@ShinGetsu857 I think he's referring to one of the stacks shawn in the Cheese Tournament, it was composed by 19 Warp Lighting Cannons. But the guy placed them on a flat and close line.
Anyway, to answer that, I don't think he has tried it because he doesn't like something so specialized in one and only field ( vs large ). They wouldn't be available in a siege as they shoot straight. And they would get wrecked by a full stack of Skavenslaves.
@@ShinGetsu857 It was a Warp lightning only army... It was very effective but he put them in a straight line and were shut down really quickly...it was really close at the end and the idea was to try it again with chequerboard...
Perhaps the first line of 4 archers should be light armored version so that they can tank even better while the rest of the regular archers can shoot the enemy to oblivion.
I feel like this is one of the least cheesey things I've seen Legend do actually lo, minus the corner camping of coursel. Formations aren't what I would consider cheese. Putting your troops in a formation that is effective and works is what you should be striving to learn how to do and is honestly something I wish I knew more about.
400 IQ tactic.... thanks dude :D Imma go use it right now ;)
There's cheese, and then there's _historically fucking tried and tested._ Romans used the checkerboard to clear Southern Europe on Very Hard/Legendary.
Love the video LTW! as many have said this is a tactic as old as the Rome.
But an interesting thing about the Romans using this in real life, is as battles would go on for hours, checkerboard makes it really easy for 1st/2nd ranks to swap whilst still keeping in formation, that way the front line soldiers are always fresh!
(but obviously this tactic isn't really represented in the TW games, mainly because battles are so quick)
Checkerboard pattern is cool, I’ve had similar results with pinning down large groups with generals or captains and having archers on skirmish ready to run. Archers that shoot while they run is a huge part of that strategy.
Try vampire coast, almost every unit that can shoot also fires while moving.
While I agree the checkerboard is a great tactic, it seems that the main difference maker here was using the hero units to harass and delay the enemy, archers would have done the same any other formation. Checkerboard is really useful with gunpowder units however as they need a direct line of sight to fire.
Elves using the Triplex Acies formation instead of the Empire? That's kinda heretical
Yesterday I realized, I am not entirely sure who is trolling and who is serious with his questions in our merry little community.
The man-thing brings cheese-gold to us!
Hey legend. Started watching you a couple months ago. You convinced me to buy WH2 and I can honestly say I love this game. It has made my quarantine so much easier. You're videos have been incredibly helpful in helping me challenge the AI on the harder difficulties. If people watch your videos and actually pay attention to your tactics, they will succeed. Keep up the great work!
It's like real life historical formations are good or something haha.
Great video. I'm still going to troll by asking why this formation is good during the next stream.
Formations, quick single topic videos about battlefield tactics would be great
Once tried a Checker Board type formation as the Empire using Halberds and Hand Gunners, it does need micro, but if your Halberdier is upgraded enough in the Red Skill Tree, they will hold while the Hand Gunners try to find the perfect spot to unleash their volley on the gaps.
I'm always used the checkerboard formation since TW1. I found it especially useful with rifles (Empire and Dwarves or full Lothern Sea Guards with shields) as the formation allow them to have nice close range direct shots on the flanks of enemy units. But to me the main interest is that you can manoeuver the shooters easily from one spot to another within the formation without bumping into other units. That being said I'm using a half melee (good to defend against charges) half shooters composition. It's also easy to protect your artillery within this formation.
To ones saying it's cheesing, well it's just the optimal deployment if you rely on ranged units to be your killers given how the game works. Basically tactics...
Why didn't I come up with the idea of using roman battle formations for my fantasy strategy games?
One day when this man stops posting videos, Don´t cry he be planning strategies to win WW3
I straight up don't believe this man any more. He starts the video "Yo, we'll see how we do" and then it's ridiculous.
he says "we'll see how we do" and then he always wins
Wish I would've seen this before I sent in my disaster battle, it ended up not being such a disaster afterall. Thanks Legend!
I was making a sandwich, but found out i am out of cheese. So i decided to check legends channel for fresh vids.
lol
nice that you put out some content but honestly those last battles were really saving disasters? i mean, even if you would have 5 less archer units in this battle you would have easily done it.
and as soon as grom entered the volley of the archers you could have just focused him with the cage/single target spell and be done with it.
i understand that your focus here is to show how checkerboard formation works, but then again something like that is trivial...
I think he likes showing these easier battles every now and then, to let him showcase his more "normal" tactics. These are still battles that the person sending them in had trouble with.
i'm sure you've answered this before, but how do you move your units on the field while keeping their formation? i always have done click/drag moves and that requires so much extra micro...
select the units you want to move and drag them around with alt + left mouse hold (or M1), if you want to rotate a formation do the same with right mouse hold (or M2).
While we're on the topic of dedicated videos to direct people to, could you do one on Lord and Hero traits? I've not found any useful information out there besides your videos and livestreams, and I find it hard to remember all the info and which video or livestream I got it from.
Can I request a video? I've noticed you talk about the army loss penalty a lot, but I haven't been able to ascertain how you achieve that, or even know it's coming. Can you do a video specifically on that?
It’s whenever you’ve lost a majority of units or a majority of your units have broken. Adds negative leadership to the remaining units which normally makes them rout.
It does make me smile when people complain it's unfair, kind of like how a war between two nations where one side has (comparatively) near unlimited access to remote piloted missiles and drones while the other side has to counter that with people firing up at them from the ground is really unfair. Perhaps the side with a disadvantage should have approached the UN and asked them to declare the victory invalid because it was cheese?
Do a top 5 total war “army formations” that includes some cheese and some not
This was a n00b strategy in Rome 1.
Guess not anymore.
did CA patch the Greenskins waagh cheese? I'm currently playing Grom right now and whenever I start a battle with two armies during a waagh, I only get my waagh army as reinforcements. The other army is not included in the battle. So in summary, instead of getting 4 armies in the battle I only get two armies, the main one who initiated the battle and it's attached waagh army.
You can't field more than 40 units at the same time.
@@k.e.v.2011 he meant giving ai the control over the waagh units and in that way creating an ai faction as ally(which is not counting towards your 40 units)...so he has 40units from 2 armys and ai has 40 units of waagh as his ally.......creating a 2v1 situation....but i dont know if its patcheded out........
I get an issue where I have an army in ambush stance and only the Waagh army shows up in the battle
If checkboard is cheese then a good portion of classic warfare was cheese too
What's the hotkey to make them keep the formation while you're moving the lines forward? Iiiii kinda suck at this game
I'm not sure if there's a hotkey but if you set up the formation then select the units in question and press G to group them on the unit bar then click the little lock symbol next to the group number above the unit cards and they maintain formation. Make sure you disable skirmish mode and turn Guard mode on or things can get messy, as units retreat to maintain distance they can scatter.
The checkerboard formation has a similar weakness to cavalry as it does to fliers due to cavalry's tendency to charge through one unit to get to another one. Ends up destroying your formation.
You have the best Total War content by miles bro. I've been flying through your content and learning a ton, even though I have almost 5000 hours combined between different Total War games. I've used the Checkerboard formation a bunch but I never realized why it was so effective. The only thing I put together was that a square formation is enormously more effective at reorienting themselves for a new focus target. I've tended to start with a small checkerboard and then bring flanking archers around either side to form an aggressive U-shaped killing field, or a delta/chevron shaped flank-defense formation around the rear checkerboard units. The only faction that I had trouble with this was against the Dark Elves. Dark Shards and Bolt Throwers are just brutal once they get in range and my poor-boy-archers without armor or shields take just as much or more damage than they deal out.
Wish I had seen this earlier, would've made my Eltharion campaign even easier. My entire army were just the new ranged units.
I have to say though, and spoilers for the last battle if you care about that, but man was it easy. Grom didn't even get through my gate before he fled due to army losses.
In a game that's designed so the more tactically proficient you are the better your outcomes, it blows my mind when people complain about using tactical advantages. It's an army simulator. I'm sure the Roman's weren't worried about other factions thinking their tactics were "cheesy and unfair" when they conquered basically the known world.
Some man record a video just to don't explain something over and over again. A cost-efficient choice.
Ah, the Roman Quincunx, no surprise this formation works in game like IRL. Even the fact that your units have ranged attacks like Hastatii & Principe, Legionaries, & Comitatenses is just like the real thing.
Yeah this is great and all, but could you explain the CHECKERBOARD FORMATION?
My problem with checkerboard is that usually the nice clean formation you get in the beginning turns into a blob of bullshit as units, even on guard mode, move around when you manually target enemies. I can never get my archers to stand the fuck still, especially with obstacles in the way.
Why fight the enemy with advanced tactics when instead you can play checkers with them!
Thank you Legend, I've been using your formation cheese tactics and have been doing better on battles
Formation is actually not cheese lol... Running around in circles and wasting AI ammo tho... ugh
Checkerboard should always be the standard for most people in WH2 anyway due to the AI mechanics not filtering through gaps like they would in other TW titles. Now, it's not always the best, but it's the standard that can be used for most armies. Terrain DOES make a difference though and you do have to change it up depending on it.
And honestly, small pockets of fighting where your skirmishers can get to the sides and have free aim is better anyway. But try this in Atilla, Medieval 2, Rome 2, and others, and it's not REALLY possible to do a checkerboard like you can in WH2 just because they WILL filter through gaps.
Im trying to do this in WH3 but when i hold alt to move the formstion together it doesnt keep the pattern, it just tries to put them in a strait line. Am I doing something wrong?
I mean Eltharion is good but HIS START IS SO FUCKING HARD im playing on hard difficulty and its a nightmare im being bullied by GRIMGOR AND QUEEK, while the funking dwarves sit on their asses and do nothing
Total War after Empire is shit. Medieval 2 - the best one, then RomeTW, 3rd place goes for Shogun. The rest is just plain shit. Looking at this video - yeah, you are great at playing it, but: this is not the way TW is meant to be. Fucking mindless pointing and clicking. I am still playing Medieval 2 and Rome.
idk, Rome 1 and Rome 2 and Shogun 2 this tactic isn't very effective and doesn't work anyone who tries gets pretty much merc'd, it probably works for warhammer, but in the other games the amount of range damage you can inflict was minimized by charging in lines and doing pila sheilds, which uses up your ammo before going in for the kill with the entire legion or army that ammo hasn't even been used. becoming a devastating blow. So I guess war hammer have their own meta but dissing line combat which was historical called the manipular system is a way better system then the tiplex acis which this formation looks like. look into rome 1 31k :D *post made for those thinking line combat is bad, just you need to learn how to mirco your archers and infantry better not just charge them into 1v1, which doesn't make sense and dont let your enemy get between your ranks cuz you get "flanking plenty" causing troops to route faster, so do they but way less so because of ally to their back and sides.
Actually checkerboard formation was used going back to the Roman Era for obvious reasons. It's not "cheese" at all if actual armies used it. Not that "cheese" should stop you from using a tactic. Corner and edge camping? Now, that is some cheese!
Ok now I'm a bit confused because while he used the archer based checkerboard formation in his own campaigns, in his disaster battles, sometimes he has a checkerboard of melee infantry with a single line of missile units in the back, like the one where he got something like 800 kills with a warpfire thrower.. The explanation he used in this video wouldn't explain that really. With autofire, the missile units would just have a lot of friendly fire.
I was watching last night and fuckin guy did so many super chats about checker box, man there are so many other formations that L:TW could explain but some idiots were trolling him in a livestream so he is giving us a video... he fell for the trolling, which at the time I was getting pissed off for last night....
Hey Legend,
not sure, if you know it, but "checkerboard" was invented by old Romans via "manipules" for the same exact reasons you stated.
So it is REALLY old.
battle is about outplaying/outmaneuvering your opponent, using every advantage you can to win. If someone calls your tactic cheese, thank them for the compliment
"If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck."
High elves are a proud warrior race and by refusing to use a staunch line of spears you are disgracing the race. You should be ashamed of yourself for constantly min/maxing the game to intentionally destroy yours and your viewer's immersion. The AI is designed to give the player a challenge not to be abused by a scummy cheeser with no respect to the units and lore provided by GW.
Is there a best approach to using checkerboard formations with mixed units. Like say heavy infantry. Would you mix them in and try to put them toward the outside or have it all mixed together? Or would you just not use checkerboard much with infantry?
Don't really get how a checkerboard system can be classed as chesse. If I remember correct, the roman army applied the same formation when they fought the gigantic Boudica army and they cleverly position the soldiers inbetween two forests (corner camped) where they couldn't be flanked.
Excellent video. This reminds me of the Soviet doctrine of "deep battle" where defence in depth was used to absorb the German blitz. By taking away the shock of the attack, the German spearhead was stalled and could be stopped.
The same principle is in play here. The orc army is using shock infantry to attempt to penetrate your line then move to the rear and envelop you. By creating so much depth and giving then no choice but to attack along the deepest axis of your line you take away the shock ability of their army while using your superior firepower to cut then down.
Another reason your videos are so enjoyable. You have an eye for finding what is weak in your opponent and bringing what is strongest in the army you're handed against it.
thats not just what deep battle was/is, deep battle involves fighting with a 'deep' and wide formation in both defense and attack. and was developed before blitzkrieg
Actually this formations was used by the Roman Maniples up till the Renaissance and Early Modern era where the genius of Maurice of Nassau pionneered using the checkerboard formation with handgunners and pikemen against the spanish :D so, its not really classified as cheese:P
Umm using formations to edge out a victory is not cheese. You think the enemy army isn't thinking "What can we do to ensure victory?" and the AI doesn't care either way. They cheat with getting better shit for free. Don't wanna use these formations? Congratulations! no one is forcing you.
Thank you LegendofTotalWar for teaching us so much things...without you I wouldn't be good at Total war...thanks Sir LegendofTotalWar...
Any chance you could play Rome 2 DI mod? Because they have changed things about armies...If you could play battle manually like for fun
I destroyed Epirus armies with hastati, general & slingers...it was like 3400 romans vs 7000 epirus near Beneventm
To anybody trying to figure out how he just slides the selected units without changing their formation, it's alt-click-drag. Hopefully you spent less time searching for this than I did.
"Fucking Romans only won because of their cheese filled checkerboard strats, totally unfair!" Hannibal Barca after the battle of Zama, 202BC
Can you please explain why you said, at the end, that with the High Elves it is important to always be the attacker?
Why do people consider using the map to your advantage and creating advantageous formations as cheese?? Using your brain is cheese? Spamming the best units is cheese? No it's called winning by outthinking your oponent lol.
Nice video.
Will this formation works with Gunnery Mobs for Vampire Coast?
Maybe it’s a balancing thing, but I wish ranged units could fire in multiple directions from the same formation, like true square formations, this would make the checkerboard even better
Super nice and elegant battle and video demonstrating the concept. A static formation that makes sense is the opposite of cheese!