MY REAL THOUGHTS ON SPECIALIZED TARMAC SL8 AND BIKE PRICES!
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- Опубликовано: 1 авг 2024
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0:00 INTRO
1:58 bike companies producing what you want
3:50 wondering is the bike safe?!?
4:50 aethos has proven stiff and sturdy
7:52 steerer issues drama?
10:33 pros have used aethos in tour
11:04 BIKE PRICES ARE TOO EXPENSIVE!!!! 
Спорт
Full disclosure I sell specialized bikes in my store. So I want to be transparent, this is just my take of seeing bikes sell, what people are buying, and what’s a popular trend in the industry.
Specialized make fantastic bikes, I own several of them, but they need to dial back the marketing BS (in my opinion) and be more authentic with messaging. Own up to mistakes, and transparent with design changes to fix them. They are world class.
And I’m waiting for all these “haters” to come out and say “hey, specialised just called me and invited me to be on their design and engineering team for the tarmac sl9, becos I’m so full of myself”
Grant Hater will Hate thats just what they do. A better topic I’m building the sl8 satin chameleon color, I’m having a hard time deciding between the roval with the 180 hub vs wake 6560 with I9 hub help me out here!
Also love specialized and so far owned more than 10 bikes over 20 years. Look at bambini and Peak torque SL8 videos (unbiased review)
I owned a 2010 giant tcr sl1 for 12 years, I bought my sl7 on 2021, rode it back to back and the sl7 is way faster than my tcr.
Sold my tcr that same year to my friend and now just riding the sl7, it made me not ride my tcr again once I experienced the sl7.
The bike is amazing and it’s still is, is it time to upgrade? Eh maybe I’ll wait another 12 years.😂
“ No one is dreaming of buying a Kia “ 😂
This is from a person that has never driven the amazing Kia Carnival
M'y dream car
I have an X3 M40i, and still dreaming to have a Kia Telluride in my garage
You've clearly never met my wife. When it was time to replace her Beetle, which was a dream car for her, she wanted a Soul. We drove a Mercedes and she wasn't impressed. She got a black Soul with tinted windows, blacked out wheels, and loaded up. She has had it several years now and still absolutely loves it. Yes. My wife is a little weird. But, it is a nice and fun car. She calls it her black Soul to match her black soul. LOL!
Who cares about cars...boring!
Having own several variants of the Tarmac, I can say that the only thing I’m upgrading on my Sl7 is the handlebars. I’m not a weight weeny, so my current tarmac is more than enough for my kind of riding. However, if you thinking of buying a Tarmac, just go for it, you won’t regret it, it’s an amazing bike and it’s worth every penny. It’s interesting that the now, the SL7 is more expensive than the SL8. I’m on the money!!
Exactly 💯..im doing the same thing..I like my sl7 s-works tarmac..this is my 3rd one...i tend to swap frames everytime i see a better or newer color...lol..make sure you buy the 3D headset spacer to give the new roval bars a clean look...
You know I bought a SL7 because of this channel. I love my Tarmac. It's the best bike out there.
Hey Grant, truly love your channel. I agree with what you're saying about the top-end of the market, but my biggest issue is mid-tier. Back in the early 2000s when I was racing, you could walk into a bike shop, buy a mid-tier bike that was 1/3rd the price of the top-end, and bring it right to a race (well, maybe different tires). Today, while I think the mid-tier framesets themselves are priced reasonably well, it's the fact that they now come with $150 wheelsets, $25 stems, and $25 handlebars that irritates me. It used to be that a complete bike was a better value than starting with a frameset, but somehow nowadays it is actually cheaper to start with a frameset and spec it out yourself. Do manufacturers no longer get a discount on groupsets/wheels/components?
"a mid-tier bike that was 1/3rd the price of the top-end, and bring it right to a race (well, maybe different tires)"
10000% manlike Grant is just reading from their marketing playbook
Wheelsets are getting worse and worse in mid-tier bikes.
Total boat anchors in the low-cost bikes.
Something is seriously wrong
Build up an SL8 frame with winspace wheels, cheaper carbon parts, and an 11 speed ultegra di2 groupset. You would have such a fast and light bike for a really good deal. People can be idiots about this stuff, the new sl8 looks great. The non s-works is 790 grams. Basically lighter and as aero as every pro tour top end bike for half the price. Glad you made this video.
Great video, Yeah the high end stuff is super expensive but a second hand SL7 with rival should now be getting cheap enough for most and is still my favorite full on race bike.
This is a great video!! Balanced, knowledgable and well thought out.
Your spot on reference the weight ,I am one of those guys who said I wouldn't buy a bike which weighed so heavy for £1300 to £1400 pounds( in the Uk) and now at last you can buy a bike with discs and DI 2 (12 speed ) which weighs less than 6.8 kilos( Yes I know there has been a few bikes lunched at this weight point recently ) So I will now go and treat myself to a new bike ,probaley the Tarmac SL8 .........
Yep, for me, in the first instance, it's all about the weight. It's the first thing most people do at a bike show or at an LBS... we pick it up and marvel. And, let's face it, the bikes are structurally sound to avoid catastrophic law suits so that's not an issue. The looks are a v. close secondary factor for me. For a 2023 bike would I choose ugly over light? Hmm... probably not. Bike preferences are so subjective.
@@wills681the head tube is definitely ugly. But its not as noticeable when the bike is actually built. And it's even less obvious if you don't have a bunch of spacers under the stem.
I live in Melbourne Australia and purchased an Aethos Pro last year and it is fantastic. I bought it for its climbing ability but i use it as my 'do everything' bike and for me i just love it. Everytime i see it i just want to jump on and go for a fang!
Agree, use my cx bike for general use so i put parts on there budget friendly that works well yet easy to fix. Not much for fancy expensive parts and frames. Cool to see but not for my use intentions. That if something happens it is not a massive hit to pocket book. Choose frames that more budget value durable alloy yet comfortable for long days.
Dig the content, keep up the good work 🙌
The issue isn't that there's no way to make a 6.5kg bike, it's that it costs 3x as much as before to have it down to that weight.
Exactement
Thats called development buddy. The whole market is developping. You don't buy a supercar for under 100k anymore as well.
@@SebL13 not only that, but how much faster are bikes now? how much better they brake? how much better they feel now? The only metrics for people to qualify a bike nowadays is weight.
I can't wait to see the squeeze test on the sL8!!!!
I’ve been riding my SL 7 for almost 3 years. I live in a country with rough roads and speed bumps seemingly every 5 miles or so. I’m talking about everything from lumpy ones to 4-8 consecutive high and narrow ones. I rarely slow down when I go over them. I have had zero issues with the steerer and I have my bike completely serviced and checked at least 4 times a year.
Same here.
Have speed bumps every 250 meters. 🙃Fly across. No problem so far. Avoid putting weight on the front at the bumps.
It's not the bumps that were contributing to the issue, it was the left/right movement which could lead to weakening of the structure through rubbing. This could then lead to a fail, e.g. if you hit a bump.
@@hughjanus7354 there is a metal spacer between the fork steerer and the compression ring, with this installed there is no way it will cause rubbing issues.
My guess with that sl7 steerer tube failure, the person might have not installed that spacer, it is small and it is very easy to forget to install it.
Just my opinion, I have raced my sl7 in gravel with no issues and that was not a smooth gravel, it was very bumpy, after that I disassembled the fork and checked for cracks or rubbing but found nothing, so I installed it back and life goes on.
C’est arrivé à combien de personnes ? Si c’est 3 cas sur le nombre de sl7 vendu aucune raison de s’inquiéter
I enjoyed the rant!
Great take on the whole SL8 situation 👌🏼 all fair and square
14:36 “to be the best phone talker in the world”
Lmao for whatever reason the way you expressed this cracked me up man. Great points in this one.
Interested to see how the launch goes when these really start getting into peoples hands. On paper the SL8 finally sounds like an all around upgrade from my SL5 DA, and it’s nice to have something to look forward/up to.
The best video yet. Tell it like it is. Keep up the good work.
As a person that has been no way interested in Specialized since forever what they have achieved in frame weight has certainly got my attention. Fair play to them - they’ve delivered what we’ve asked and now I am genuinely interested. I think your analogies are also on point regarding Bugatti etc but I do think Specialized (and other high end bikes manufacturers) should give the ability to test ride at a “demo day”. You would be able to drive a Bugatti before you dropped that sort of coin.
Your theory is completely flawed. Bugatti cost hundreds of thousands. A full sl8 cost merely 17-18k. Keep your VIP fantasy to yourself.
@@guantisengkun4342 it’s all relative, and I’ve been riding for a long time. Not so long ago, most manufacturers allowed you to ride their bikes before you purchased them but thanks for your insightful comment. 😂
Great video. Btw, do you think the new SL8 compression ring could be installed on the SL7? They both use the same bearings.
Great video as always. I agree with you 100 percent
Love your channel. The rants are en pointe.
Your comment on weight=durability is spot on. As someone else who also works in the industry, I have been saying this for years: they dont make them to be crashed, they make them to be ridden. Yes, if you crash, even a carbon frame that is 5 or 600 grams heaver will still likely crack, even if it doesnt break. So the fact that these people are concerned about crashing and durability at all means they dont have thier logic going. Thats all.
yea I dont know why people say these what ifs....... thats like being the new iphone is glass, if you drop it from your pockets its gonna break, like yea we all know this
As consumers the internet now gives us the opportunity to analyse details of any product design and manufacture to a level which would have been undreamt of in, say, 2000. This is a good thing... I personally enjoy Peak Torque and Hambini dissecting the engineering details. But sometimes it's hard to keep a sense of perspective. In 2000 I bought a bike which I considered to be v. expensive on the basis of a magazine review and picking the bike up in my LBS. I kept it for five years, put thousands of miles down, and it was a good bike. I didn't have a clue about the design of the steerer tube, nor did it ever bother me. Simpler times.
100% with you, if you think it’s to light and too expensive don’t buy it. Haters keep hating, that will never change, they’ll always find something to moan about. It’s what gets them views. I’ve been looking for a new road frame for a while, originally wanted the Aethos, but I already have a Crux which is aesthetically similar, then the LAB71 came along with great looks and a real world stack height. But when I compared the LAB71 to the Hi Mod, I couldn’t justify an extra £1000 to save 40 grams. The issue I have with the Supersix’s is the lack of compliance in the rear end. Then the SL8 drops, looks of the SL7, rides like the Aethos and is 90 grams lighter than the LAB71 and has a 5mm higher stack. (20mm higher the SL7 in a 58)
Bingo 🎉 I’ll take a 58 pls
If you don't think it's too expensive I have a timeshare to sell you, you seem like that type of a person.
My opinion: Many people have decided whether they like a bike or not before they watch a video. Their comments reflect that.
Also, I hate this bike because it has a speed sniffer but no nostrils, so I’m skeptical that it can actually smell anything.🐽
All very good and legit points. Well said.
Good rant
Good points. But I would disagree with your feelings on the Aethos. I found it way less stiff than the Tarmac SL7, enough so that it was really noticeable. I'm not saying the SL8 will be a noodle, but I for sure felt the lack of stiffness in the Aethos.
Preach brother preach 🙌🏽
I have a S-works SL4 and love it still have looked after it I'm sick of the marketing
Routing the hose like that (through bearings) actually makes the frame and fork more reliable. With a D shaped steerer and round headtube there are no perforations in the critical front end parts of the frame, where a delamination or other weakness can be hidden during the manufacturing process. Giant has been making d shaped seat tubes and posts for a long time, so it is well understood in the industry. The past failures in the SL 7 were not from construction defects but the metal hardware damaging the components.
Is it safe to have a SpeedSniffer on the front but nothing on the back? There should be a VenturiVent to release the accumulated sniff.
Second hand is where it’s at
I got a 2022 Time Scylon with maybe 1500 miles if that from a guy that works at Time. Rim brake , Dura ace di2 with 300$ carbon bars no saddle and no wheels as I made him an offer without the wheels and saddle at 4500$ ! Done
Swapped the bars to enve ses aero bars and an enve stem . Threw on my enve 5.6 ses wheels and a specialized romin evo mirror saddle . Done
12500$ bike for less then 5500$ that dwarfs the specialized sl8 sl7 and any other specialized road bike . The Time rtm carbon is light years beyond what specialized is laying up . My litespeed T1 sl 2023 I built up ran me 11k but I will have that bike for 10 plus years and it’s timeless and is hands down the slickest road bike that will always look phenomenal and timeless let alone the performance is stellar .
Hopefully that 2022 frame is better than 2016 version which was absolute garbage when it came to actual performance
The problem with that analogy is that the average man has never been able to afford an F1 car. But 10 years ago, the average man could afford to buy the same bike his favourite pro rider had. That's what was good about it. Even me, a lower middle income earner managed to buy the same bike Boonen ride to victory at Paris Roubaix. It used to be obtainable.
10
Years ago the sworks tarmac sl3 with durace di2 was 11,000 2012 tarmac sl3 look it up
@GCPerformance18 I got the sram red mechanical one for $6.5k Aussie dollars at end of year. I guess that's like how everyone is knocking down the SL7 prices now too.
Love your videos man !! They are just spot on 🔥 you are just saying the right things! More power to you 💥
Amen, GC!
i'm 6'5 280 . i ride my size and whats comfy and can handle my weight. i don't need superlight. i started with my giant at 335 and in 2 years got down to 280. no frame issues. dropped 3x, wrecked at 20mph. 😅😅
Great takes grant
Great points made - ALL valid
I appreciate you watching and giving your feedback :)
Great video and prospective 👌🏻
Thanks so much!!!
Spot on with everything you pointed out. Really digging the content you're putting out there.
Used bike prices have tanked here in the U.K. It’s definitely put me off buying new any time soon. Really enjoyed my SL7 but it cost 3k in 18 months once I sold it. I just bought a 3 year old Look 785 RS rim for 3k!
Thank you, thank you, thank you for addressing the fussing folks..I said the same thing..no one is forcing anyone to buy the SL8..if you like it then buy it, if you don't like it or consider it too expensive don't buy it...its just that simple..i made the same analogy with the Lamborghini..
Spot on GC
Some people will complain the sky is too blue. I ride a S-Works SL7 and love the new SL8.
Got an Aethos - a quality bike super light for mountain climbing. Saving for an SL8 looks the BOLX just like my vintage MTB Roberts DOGSBOLX DB3
WOW!!! Thanks man! that was so refreshing to listen. Your car analogy is exactly what I think. people just want top tier things for entry level money. I would neeeeever ever buy a S-WORKS branded bike because at my fitness level it would be a waste of my money and also of a waste of a bike. But I admire those machines in the same way I admire super cars and I am grateful they exist.
Glad you enjoyed it, I was getting lost in the negative comments, and everytime any new product came out no matter the brand people would literally rip on it. meanwhile there are things in this world that are way mroe over priced, and the best thing about a bike it is not needed like the other things over priced so you can choose at your own free will
Come on GC! We know the big pros aren't ridding a frame you or I can buy. And 2nd I'm pretty sure everyone has been asking for a Venge. But still a fan, and thanks for the videos.
But do you want the same frame that the pros ride which can generally have less resin (to save weight) and be more brittle? When a pro breaks their bike, they just get a new one off the car, whereas consumers will have to shell out for a new frame.
I 100% agree with everything you said
mannnn you made a grown man cry lol thank you for watchjing
Correction on Casper Asgreen riding an Ethos during mountain stages, he was actually riding an SL7 and won stage 18 on it. I watched the entire tour and don't think I ever saw any Specialized rider use an Ethos at any point. They all stuck with Tarmacs.
Not this tour but last tour he rode it. And I watched that article
You have good points in this video & i agree also ... 14,000.00 is not a beginners bike. This is a bike that for a cycling that been riding on a low performance leven for at least 2 years then, jump on a swork level
Thank you for watching and putting in your input
People will always criticize and give empty opinions, just keep living your life on your terms.
I just had a look to the new SL8 - Ultegra DI2.
9000€ I don't understand this price...
Frameset: 4000€
Groupset: 1850€ Local retail price
Wheelset: 1800€ aftermarket price - Specialized
I'm leftover with 1350€ for saddle / bars / handlebar tape & tires...
Kept in mind that specialized got huge discounts on all the parts...
It's that nasty thing they call capitalism where as a business they expect to make a profit as to pay all those government fees that are mandated of them.
They’re in the business to make money, what were you expecting
Good rant and your raise valid points to consider. For me it's par for the course that you're always going to have questioners/doubters on any new advance.
I would say bikes and bike gear has climbed to disproportionate costs, but nonetheless this has occurred due to a consumer market being strong and willing to meet the prices asked.
My concern though is it may also be creating a barrier to new entrants coming into the cycling world. Instead, they may turn to other sporting options outside of cycling. In turn, if this should occur then more than likely prices will come down
100% agree
So many other bikes out there the consumer can get as a Dura Ace or Red custom build and get exactly what they want for $14k. Crankset, cassette, and bar/stem as example are critical to your riding preference and topography which is why I would never buy a complete bike out of the box. I was waiting on the SL8, but will probably go with a Dogma F or Cipollini RB1K.
Tu peux ne prendre que le kit cadre et ensuite équiper le vélo comme tu le souhaites,je ne vois pas où est le problème,c’est ce que j’ai fait d’ailleurs
2 potential issues I see with the top tier bikes is first, the anchoring effect; the price elevates the price of all the other bikes in the stable, like the $95 dollar steak on the menu makes the $50 one seem more reasonable. The second potential issue is if you add up the price of the frame and everything on it how close does it add up to the advertised price? I get there’s a lot going on into the creation and marketing of a special bike like this and retailers need to make a buck too.
You had me at Speed Sniffer
I’ll wait for the regular sl8 with 105 di2.
I cycle everyday and rather enjoy it as my main transportation around town. I have a few bikes in rotation, shopping, to work, and my road biking trips. If i could fit in a bike? SL8 red ♥️? Is it available in R10 carbon? Really like it and would put 105 Di2.
GC, concerning new SL8, do you happen to know if the Ready To Paint Framset, must be painted? I believe I've read articles in the past that mentioned unpainted carbon should not be exposed to direct sunlight for medium to long periods of time. If I recall correctly article(s) mentioned that direct sunlight for that length of time, could somehow degrade, or have some sort of negative effect on the carbon. Personally, I like the color and way the Ready To Paint Framset looks and if I happened to purchase, would like to leave it as such. Would appreciate your insight, thoughts, and experience if any as to this. Thanks.
no it does not need to be painted but it is more open to getting marks from road debris and scratches, but ihave plenty of customers who ride it as is, becauise it is so light
@@GCPerformance18 Thank you very much. Great channel, great content, and great work.
“Do I need an iphone to be the best phone talker in the world” hahaha loved the video, fun!
The thing that annoys me with the pricing is, that you can often buy a frameset, and build your own identical bike for like 70% of what the price of the complete bike is. They are already making a bunch of money on the frame and the components, the profit margins must be insane. I recently built a s-works stumpy evo for myself, like $5k off retail, but with better parts. But im guessing they still sell them like hotcakes even tho they raise prices $2k every year.
Which is crazy. Before, it was cheaper to buy the bike than a frameset and build it out.
@@DaveCM I actually was offered about a $5k discount on the full bike itself by the bike shop. And its a very small local bike shop, if they can offer me those prices, and still make a profit, I cant imagine what bigger bike stores still profit when selling these bikes. But as I said, I ended up going with the frameset, because I wanted the new sram T-type transmission, instead of the XX1 set on the complete bike.
They probably have like a 500% profit margin on the bikes already. Especially since they dont have to outsource saddles, handlebars, wheels, tires anymore, everything is in house...
Because not everyone is willing to learn, risk say cutting a steerer tube or just want instant gratification, the OEM/ dealer can make more margin - free market at its best. Same as people going into a shop to change a tire - it’s their value choice. However, the premium will drive some to assemble the bike with their spec of parts (perhaps non big brand) and that is good in my book.
@@davet003.5 I 100% see the reason for buying a complete bike, dont get me wrong. But they are EXTREMELY overpriced, doesnt matter what anyone says. A consumer can buy the exact same components, for CONSUMER pricing, for like 30-35% cheaper than a complete bike. And then you have to keep in mind, everyone is making profit of the parts you are buying. They raise the prices every year, by several thousand. But in reality, it maybe costs specialized $3k to build that bike.
Profit margins aren't actually that good. And yes, you can build a bike cheaper buying things well below MSRP. I also wanna see people at bike shops having jobs though.
"If you drop your phone on the ground will it break? Maybe" mic drop!! well said.
I absolutely absolutely get what you're saying. But I also wanted to share the following: New bikes have been rising exponentially. Top-end bikes have been affordable/reachable for (above) average consumers who have been saving up money for some time. Brand new bikes have been rising that many people who were able to afford them aren't able to explain it to their wife anymore 😂. Everything has been rising in price, but:
Most hobbies had a rise and are still within reach (hifi, cooking, coffee, computers, smartphones, sports gear, just some things I'm into) probably because doubling their price doesnt put them out of reach, but since bikes are more expensive a rise in price (percentage-wise) has more impact)
Bikes or upgrades on bikes (like groupsets or cockpits) have gotten out of reach for some people... I feel like bikes have been rising in price more than other sectors but I might be wrong. It also has to do with the updates they bring. For example: I dont feel the need to upgrade my 10 speed groupset to an 11 speed. But I am tempted by electronic shifting. The step up in $ from that is so big... While the gains are marginal. But also, there's a lot more tech in it, so I get why they're more expensive.
I just feel like a chip in a smartphone, and the lowlight performance of the cameras, can double in quality, and the company just asks 10% more for their new model while the bike industry shows a 1% aero or weight advantage and just calculates 20% more..
Those numbers might be a bit excessive but youll get my point I hope.
With cars, computers or electronics (like cameras) it feels more like double the money is also double the quality; regarding luxury, speed, performance, charging, light sensitivity, battery life, power usage, durability. But with bikes, gains are so much more subtle and marginal because most of the performance comes from the rider and his/her experience and physical properties that the investment doesn't always feel worth it.
I am working in a bikestore and ive seen a shift in super experienced riders with a lot of money not going for the best of the best but for a better-mid-range bike. Even though they always had the Dura-Ace HighMod stuff before.... And I get them. Not because our economy is so bad (they are still able to afford all of the bikes in our store) but because the extra price feels less-worth-it.... Like the SL8; I absolutely love it, and I loce how Specialized has outperformed itself, but if I can find a second hand SL7 for 1000$ less, I wouldnt even consider the SL8.
I am curious what people have to say about this, but this is just my experience/opinion. Also I am not a native, so if I made any weird sentences or Interpunction please dont blame me.
J’avais un sl6 sport tres customisé,il était 95% aussi performant qu’un sworks mais j’ai pris un sl7 je ne suis pas plus rapide car moins entraîné mais je suis heureux car c’est simplement de la passion,personne n’a besoin d’aussi beau vélo mais voilà je suis passionné et ça me file la banane d’avoir un tel engin ,je le bichonne,je le regarde pendant des heures c’est vraiment génial après il est à peine mieux que mon sl6 en performances pures mais tellement plus vif et agréable,le dura ace 12s di2 est formidable,rapide et net!
En automobile beaucoup de voitures vont à 200 à prix raisonnable,à 250/270 en mettant un bon budget mais plus de 300 le budget explose x4 minimum c’est pareil en vélo pour les 5/10%de performance supplémentaire le prix double.
@@littlevo9 I used Google translate so I think I understood your comment! And I agree. I wasn't so much talking about the price going up with very little gain in performance, its obviously the last tiny improvements that cost the most, but I was more talking about the newer models being more expensive with every new model that is released
Agreed until you got into the pricing.
1- you can buy a car with that much money. So bicycle industry is claiming the amount of work, manufacturing, R & D , etc is equal to build a car. ( just google NEW cars around 14-15 k)…
2- Even if we accept all the marketing claims they made to justify “ price gauging “, none of us are in pro tours to justify 16 seconds gain or few more seconds on climb.
3- But we may do small races or would like to buy the bicycle for Strava PRs. But their price doesn’t justify to break the bank for it. So they are the one losing some potential buyers.
4- Thats why we have something called, “reasonably priced”. e.g Canyon
5- if bicycle industry wants to be like Gucci or Luis Vuitton of sport, they sure have some costumers. But They will push many of us to forget about that 16 second, or performance gain and buy Chinese bicycles.
5- Bicycle was not supposed to be a luxury item but they are getting there.
Happy with my di2 giant ultegra. I'll never own a SL8 as I can't justify the price. But I will see them selling second hand for $8k less about 1.5 years from now.
The issue is I could buy an sl2 or other older rim brake bike and build it with deep wheels and a nice groupset and then go on a very nice holiday for the cost of this
If someone feels bad about bicycle prices just try looking up wakeboard boat pricing 🤯, top tier is always expensive.
I think that's the part that confuses me. The jump from low-tier to mid-tier is always reasonable, but the jump from mid to top is usually more than 2x the price without nearly the same returns and people lose their minds. This is true in EVERY product category and I don't understand why it surprises people.
Agree 100%. People buy super bikes and expect fire sale prices forgetting that bikes today are far better. 105 is now as good as Dura-Ace 10 years ago (-weight). Tubeless tires. Carbon frames, bars, wheels, seat posts, saddles. Drop all this and your bike will be no more expensive relative to wages. And do people need a new bike every year? I have several bikes for different rides. A couple very expensive. But they last me 10 years or even more. Got my first really high end road bike in 1989. Got a new one in 2008. Split into two (climbing and aero) in 2022/2023. Make your bikes last and the price matters less.
Dura ace 9000 is pretty fucking good man
@@Eirikkinserdal yes - and the newest 105 is even more amazing. Just shows that people's expectations inflate faster than their incomes. Used and loved Ultegra 6000 for 14 years before getting the Di12 version. Is the new group set better - yes - did I get my money's worth from the previous set - yes. What's not to like?😁
Fully agree with your rant.. or comments.. it's not something you need but something you want. People nowadays are not realistic with the world around them. Your analogy of the Ducati bike is a good one. Thanks for sharing the reality of this bike industry. 👍👍
Not really, a motorbike or a car is contributing to how fast you can go. With pushbikes, it's the rider. You give a good rider a 2k (when new) 105 bike from 201X and he'll smash a typical 15k SL8 buyer, no worries.
@hughjanus7354 I mean the expectation of one. You can keep asking why SL8 is so crazy expensive and keep complaining that it should be made affordable. It's like asking why a Ferrari is so expensive knowing that it is a premium model for cars. The price is a representation of the tier of a particular item. There are the expensive and the cheap cars. One can't keep complaining why a Ferrari is so crazy expensive when it is obviously a premium car, top of its tier. The same goes to SL8 with DuraAce vs a entry level Giant with Tiagra. They are priced differently because of their tier in their equipment... from wheels to even saddles
GC performance, best phone talker in the world 😂
My thought/opinion on the weight of a bike argument: What good is a light weight bike if the rider is over weight?
Agree with everything you said . If people think it’s crazy that bicycle cost that much. I wonder what they will say for 3-9k earbuds aka IEM monitors.
Yea I just think maybe people don’t understand that everything desirable in this world are always way more money for little reasoning. But luckily this is not something we need in life to survive. It’s a hobby for fun lol
“Do I need this $1300 phone to be the best phone talker in the world? No.” LOL I loved that.
hahah its the truth
Everybody just followed the Apple model: launch a product every year with minimal upgrades and do a big enough of an ad campaign to make previous generation owners hate themselves for having last year's model. The same with cars. And most of us keep falling for that and buy whatever the new model is. There was nothing bad about the SL6. The UCI changes rules for no reason just frequently enough for bike manufacturers to release the new best thing. That's why we compare these things to motorcycles and other machines.
I enjoyed your rant . I believe that with the R&D that goes into what they do , .. it won't break . If there' was a bike design that failed , they're so sensative to feedback that they would correct that .. The last generation of Rockshox SID was prone to bushing play , .. they said ooop's we made a mistake and they corrected it in this latest new generation . I've seen riders who rode in mud with not enough tire clearance and wore holes in thier chainstays , .. and specialized sent them a new warranty frame . Maybey that's not always the case , .. but there's so much competition , so many bikes , ... I don't see any manufacturer taking a bad rap for a bad bike and accepting that , .. They don't just sit there , .. they correct their own mistakes if they make a mistake . 3 years ago I couldn't dream of owning a carbon bike , .. I made payments , developed relationships with my local shops , .. developed credit and trust , .. and now I do own a couple carbon bikes , my mindset has changed , if it breaks , .. Oh well , .. I guess I'll have to get it fixed and if they won't fix it maybey they'll give me a deal on replacement frame or something .. I don't see Any of these companies set out to make unhappy customers .
"I believe that with the R&D that goes into what they do"
I believe you're naive.
"they said ooop's we made a mistake and they corrected it in this latest new generation "
they said, thanks for dropping many 000's and doing beta testing for us - something we should have done ourselves since we're charging an arm and a leg for it. We will fix it next time around and we know you'll buy it because you're special.
Well, Sram also corrected the bearing issue in the SiD , ... In this latest new generation .. And "I believe" that 2% of the people are doing the work and the other 98% just complain about it . Could you please show us the bicycle that you researched and designed ? I love specialized bicycles and I didn't buy one this time because they put Rival everything on it with a HG driver and a KMC cassette , .. They couldn't afford the XD driver and an XPLR cassette ... For $5899 CAD ... I thought about long and hard and when I was offered a Scott with a complete groupset on it for half the money , .. I layed my money down . I don't want to pay thru the nose for a name , a future shock and a hole in the downtube with a gimped groupset . And every now and then I have found bikes that are great value for the money , .. that don't get all the hype but they're right up there with specialized , .. so specialized isn't the only pebble on the beach , .. but I 'de be surprised if they're selling frames that are going to break unwarranted . The fact they fixed the problems of the previous generation means that they do have a brief window of a conscience , .. and we can rely on that . But if they can't put a complete groupset on a $5899 bike , .. There are companies who do . And we don't have to buy specialized's hot air and complain . I might not be the naive one . There's 15 other companies trying to sell us that bike .
@@kevinadams1049 "Could you please show us the bicycle that you researched and designed ?"
It always cracks me up when people try to use this as an argument. It's like saying, you can't criticise this food at this restaurant since you're not a chef. I know what good food tastes like and I know that if I have pieces of drywall falling into my plate your joint should be closed. It's common sense. Same strategy (common sense) applies to the subject of releasing unfinished products and beta testing them on paying customers.
For you to even try to defend the fact that this overpriced cheap made tat is sold to customers before it's fully tested tells me everything I need to know about you.
Talk to ‘em GC! 🗣️ Let ‘em know the dealio!
Live with your means people. Appreciate what you have. I also can’t stand it when people compare 🍎 and 🍊.
Never apologize for how you speak. Some people have learning differences or issues communicating it’s just who people are.
thanks for the rant, watching a range of videos from my subbed channels (inc. PT) and others i can take a range of views and come to some critical conclusions. Part of the issues with companies who should do high quality/depth of engineering is when they have problems that should have shown up in testing. Most professions / businesses will have unfair criticism and social media has raised that level as we all know.
Keep up the good work, and thanks.
I have a Aethos pro since 2 years and i made 20,000 km and i am so happy. Yes i paid a lot of money but i'm not regret i have 4 bikes before and i was not 100 % satisfied .People are very stange they always critique the price but they wont to have a big car and a big house travelling ect ... for free
Dude,
Deep Breath....
Namaste...
Inner Peace, Outer Joy...
🙏
So many ways to frame one's thoughts about a bike. Like 50 layers to a Venn diagram - so easy to flip between priorities and drive oneself crazy or do it to the rest of the Internet
I like the bike but I can't help but feel like the cockpit is the most notable change and if people have the sl7 and want to upgrade it'd be much better to just buy the cockpit online for like 600 which now comes with the sl7 spacers and boom you got an sl 8 😅 I have a size 61 sl7 with ultegra and its at 6.8kg so yea I'll buy the cockpit eventually but im not in a rush lol
Well said. Stop supporting unnecessary consumerism to support marketing departments.
That's true, Specialized have confirmed it themselves that speed saving comes from integrated bars
Sl8 second tier model looks ideal for me. Everything high end like Aerofly bars unlike previous years builds where they had alloy bars. For me it the star of the show :-)
Twenty years or so ago when I was shopping for a new road bike the bike store owner suggested that I avoid a carbon version as a newbie since I would probably crash it and destroy it.
lmao what? who says that...... "you look like shit on a bike, dont buy this, buy this aluminum bike cause you look uncoordinated and these bikes are too fragile for you!!!" lol
GREAT rant! Just a thought about pricing: People who buy an S-Works bike, what it to be expensive, no matter the actual value. I think, if you buy frame, groupset, wheels + all parts and build the bike yourself, it'd be cheeper...
Odd thing here in the UK the sl8 is 1k cheaper than the sl7, so when you search bikes from most expensive to cheapest, the sl7 costs more 😂
I do agree with what you say does make sense. Essentially, the s-works is a designer brand. You could buy the cheaper non s-works badged one, but it wouldn't be the same for some.
The thing that annoys me is how rim brake option has died, I still own one and will need parts and it worries me in 5 years. All parts will be non-existent. Also mid tier bikes are so much more than what they were.
Hell yeah I enjoyed your rant! Lol! So question for you. SL7 prices have come down significantly and I wanted to buy the SL7 expert now only $5499. Crazy deal! Here’s my dilemma, I currently have Di2 ultegra on 2020 Roubaix and the 2022 expert SL7 is running sram rival??? Is it worth to go “backwards” in a sense? Big fan of the your channel! Can’t wait for the flower sl8 custom build.
Tarmac SL8 equivalent to a Bugatti Veryon, confirmed. -GC Performance 2023.
Well about those bike prices, i still remember the time when you could get name brand bikes for 6k € with a light frameset and top spec groupsets. Times where you could get 105 rim brake aluminium cycles that weighed about 8,5kg or even less (should be about 18,7lbs) for less than 1k €.
Now bikes are heavier, harder to service, sometimes uglyer (those head tube abominations are out of control) while the only upside to me are disc brakes (i started on dh/mtb where those where used years before on roadbikes) and suddenly top end cycles cost 2x to 3x than less than 15 year ago. Yes, i know inflation. Yes, i see certain innovations. But somehow the bike prices seem to be in hyperinflation mode, while (at least european) wages of workers in the cycling industry haven't increased in any substantial way. It just seems like a giant cash grab.
Just give me a light carbon (like focus izalco) or aluminium (like caad) with hydraulic disc brakes with a groupset that is weightwise comparable to a sram red 22 at great price please.
But right now i get diversification (climber/aero/cross/gravel), big budget marketing and brands that get bought up by investor groups who only want fast profits.
You can get new cars for the price of top end bikes, yes not a bugatti, but it still seems absurd if you compare the amount of material and parts that go into a car. That's a problem.
Chinese bikes are your best bet then. Great value and you can build your bike up how you want it. Frames, wheels and even group sets now (well almost there, I’d imagine about another 6 months) are good quality and great value.
Exactly. Pro level bikes have tripled in price in a few short years, but the value of the inputs has not tripled. Lower tier 105 level bikes have become 4k bikes, and out of reach of a lot of people. And it is very definitely fair to point out that a bike is costing much more than a new car or motorbike, which has a lot more complex reliable engineering and parts. Consumers know when they are being ripped off, and Specialized are the kings of it.
@@benhardwick1970 Chineses bikes have no dealer margin and most likely a big hole left warranty wise.
I usually stick to used top tier framesets with top tier mechanical groupsets. While i have to abstain from disc brake bikes and higher end wheelsets for the foreseeable future (i won't use wheelsets above 600€ that get killed over time by the rim brake) i can get sub 7kg bikes less than 1500€. While i got no warranty either, i at least get proven qc and a test ride.
Of course searching can be tedious until i find certain models in my size, in my desired spec and my desired color in a certain range of my area for an acceptable price.
I want a frame with no sloping, classic or dropped chain seat stays with an overall light package.
I wouldn't mind spending 5k € for a light frameset (no sloping!) with okayish wheels and hydraulic disc brakes. I wouldn't mind an updated mechanical DA/Sram Red. I don't need electronic shifting, integrated cockpit and integrated cables or an aero frame. But the prices in the last 5 to 8 years are just bonkers.
@@RoadRageRod most of the top Chinese bikes come with warranty now and brands like winspace have shops on most countries now so you don’t have to send them back to China. Each to their own but just remember that most of these top brands are actually made in China anyway. You just paying for the brand name
@@benhardwick1970 Of course there is a premium for a well known brand name. But in my country there is 1 winspace contact, that isn't even close to me at all. I don't like the three frames that i see on the page lookswise, two are aero, one is sloped.
My perfect bike would be an sub 7kg carbon frame with a horizontal top tube, dropped seat stays, non aero, hydraulic disc, external cable routing. So basically just 2011 to 2014 light bikes with disc instead of rim brakes.
But i rather buy used rim brake bikes with those features than a current disc brake for 5x to 15x what i pay for a used one.
And there are only two upsides for me in disc brakes on roadbikes anyway, better performance in shitty weather and no wear on the wheelset. But i don't race, so i don't have to have maximum stopping power for late breaking or fancy wheelsets anyway.
For me the current bike market is just not attractive enough. Furthermore, while i could justify spending 5 to 6k on "my perfect bike", i probably wouldn't even want to ride a bike that costs 10k plus out of fear of actual wear or even damaging it.
Or give me something like the caad12 Disc with DA again. 8kg, hydraulic disc brake, top tier mechanical groupset for 4k € rrp in 2016. Now bikes twices the price weigh the same[if not heavier], are one step below in groupset hierarchy and they often are only the second best carbon option.
I think will stay with used bikes. And maybe sometime i snag a deal on some 3 year old 15k€ bike that fullfills my wishes. But one thing is sure, with that pricing strategy the manufacturers won't make a dime from me.
The world could be 100% perfect and there will ALWAYS be those who have something to bitch about.
Let me drive you crazy: Where are the middle of the line, light, and affordable bikes? I get the top of the line and pros use argument. But Ultegra/Force bikes are at 6K and sort of heavy. SRAM/Shimano/Brands have really screwed the best bang 4 buck mkt.
My local Specialized Dealer told me yesterday that they’ve sold EVERY SL-8 that they’ve gotten in.
I enjoyed the rant. But the motorcycle thing does get me. My local Trek dealer is in a building that a Suzuki dealer used to occupy. Nowadays for under $14,000 you can get a GSX-R750Z that you can ride to the local track and compete with. It's not a Kia for grocery shopping.
It won't stop me from buying the bike that has the features that I want. Probably in the $10,000 range. Which is more than a GSX-8S.
@@inthefieldunderthesky Thanks. Not my thing, but thanks. My thing is sufficiently niche that I have promised myself a Seven Axiom S if I can get to a certain fitness level. I'll be able to get exactly the configuration I want. But that is if I can get to that level, which happens to be losing 40 lb and riding 600 km in 40 hours.
Note the part about losing 40 lb. Saving 100 g on a saddle is unimportant to an obese sexagenarian.
But enough of my whining. Sometimes it is nice to have nice things. I once bought a $18,000 motorcycle because it was the most beautiful machine I had ever seen. And if I were going to buy a racy bike, it would be a Pinarello for the same reason.
Hey, for folks worried about their bike falling over at the coffee shop, here's what you do: you get the spanky new Tarmac SL8..then you get some foam pipe insulation. You know, the stuff that looks like pool noodles. Then you cover you bike. Problem solved. You can then describe how fast your new bike looks to your friends while drinking coffee ;-)
You know, it's possible that the people saying they wanted a 6.8kg bike are *different people* than those complaining that it's too light and fragile. Like, it sounds like the only thing that would appease this rant would be if every person on the internet had the exact same opinion. Unfortunately, the internet is a vast place full of millions of people, therefore there will be some subset of people who are happy or unhappy with any potential outcome.