How to Choose Correct Stem Length (Bike Fitter explains)
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
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Stem length is a crucial part of your bike fit setup. Having the wrong length will cause havoc among your body. Neill Stanbury shows us the best way to choose the correct stem length (assuming the rest of your setup is already dialled).
#cycling #roadcycling
Masterclass. Can you discuss how you balance stem length and handlebar height?
This would be a great follow up. I had buyers regret for a while after I bought my current bike, I was sure it was too big. I felt like the hoods were way out of reach and I couldn't get comfortable. After deciding the drops we're way better, and with nothing to lose, I lowered the bars by 20mm. Suddenly the hoods fell under my hands and I was way more relaxed. I'm currently waiting on a slammed headset cover so I can explore lower positions to see if it keeps getting better or if I'm in the sweet spot for me on that bike.
With this vid I've found out my reach is both too short and too long depending on how tired I am 😂
yeah its tricky, for example resting your hands on the corner of the bars behind the hoods will feel good and probably more comfortable if you been in the hoods for 10+ mins. Doesnt necessarily mean its too long of a reach, shorter will often feel better just simply cause its more upright.
Same....
Sounds like you’re in the sweet spot then?
You need a Schrodinger's stem
😂😂😂
This content is hands down the best for addressing all things bike fit. Thank you so much for sharing the knowledge.
What makes this all super tricky is that the more you ride the more flexible you get. so if you're comfortable bending your back more throughout the season, it gives you that much more room to play with in the front-end. I started this season on a 100mm stem with 10mm stack. now i'm on 110 with 0 stack on the same bike, handlebar, brake levers etc. All cause I rode a lot more this season and got noticeably flexier
Same for me. For some reason this season I feel way stronger and flexy. Started with 90mm winter time. I'm at 110mm and feel I can go 120mm.
100% I constantly thought my 130 mm stem was too long and now 6 months later I feel really comfortable with it
@chrispfitzner520 yeah! It's also not so much as getting flexible I think it's the group of muscles get used to of the pedaling motion and position. For some reason as you get fitter you end up changing your fitment to the bike over time til you hit that sweetspot.
Low key this is why I think getting a bike fit immediately after buying a bike is a bad idea. Might be a bad take, but I figure you should just stretch properly every day, ride your bike everyday, improve your fitness, then once you're in a solid position fitness wise get yourself a bike fit if it's needed.
And weve not even discussed stem angle! Excellent video!
I got a handlebar with shorter reach (earlier bend). The section where you talked about how the fit can differ depending on how hard you are working is so spot on. Z4/5 felt perfect on my bike but Z2 was quite uncomfortable. I changed the handlebar so that my majority of hours (Z2) feels better.
Great video! I think it's important that Neil is still a fast rider himself so he can relate the real world situations. The reach confusion when you ride hard and aero is so true. When I ride at the aero position, I constantly suspect I might need a longer reach, but while riding easy, it feels OK or even a little bit too long if optimal comfort is considered. When going hard the pedal force basically offset most of the "weight" on the hands and the crouch, that means a down tilt saddle and a forward position on the "rivet" is even more "comfortable" than an 150w cruise on an upright level saddle. That means a different fit. For someone who barely ride at that effort level he will never get it, not to say give relatable fitting advice. It's more than just angle measurements.
Always great listening to Neill.
Interesting to hear him talk of the stem feeling too short during harder efforts, and a bit long during endurance rides. I have thought this quite often, but thought it was all in my head!
Cheers guys.
Best stem length video on the web! Thank you for posting!!
Been doing bike fit for many years..Excellent content as always. Bar width and lever position on bars big factor too. Often folk don’t need shorter stem,just levers pulling back..big fan of ‘compact’ style of bar also….YES,always must get seat position right first! Thank you .
The drop between saddle height and handle bar height is also very important.
And stem angle...
On n 90mm stem the height is about 1cm difference between a 0° and a 6° stem.
Height massively impacts reach.
Reach = stem length
I find the rounding of the shoulders often happens when the hips are too upright making the spine curve. Since switching saddles to Selle Boost S3 I find I can roll forward more, flattening the back, and relaxing the shoulders. Fixing the back end fixed the front end for me.
Great video!! and thank you for bringing up the integrated bar/stem! Was waiting for that part…
The thing i noticed the most when my reach was too short was rounding my upper back (essentially reducing my torso length, downside is that it hurts after awhile...)
My minimum stem length is when my knees hit the handlebar when standing out of the saddle 😂
I'm 170cm with an axle to saddle of 870mm, my "Ape Index" has me at 170cm too so normal arm length, just a really short body. The "S" bike I have came with an 80mm stem but I've just swapped it out for a 60mm one and the difference is night and day- can actually sit nicely on the hoods (40cm bars) and in the drops too now. Next step now is to get used to being in the drops for longer periods and slowly start to reduce the spacers etc at the front until I find a workable limit to my flexibility(lack of lol). Only downside is the bike looks fugly with a small stem, the Garmin out front mount detracts a bit from that though!
I installed a 20mm longer stem and things felt so much more relaxed.
My struggle with bike fitting sessions is that my fit while sitting on a trainer for an hour or two is not what i care about. I care about the fit for when im all out up a hill, or going for a break, or trying not to get dropped. Im willing to ride with extended scapulas
ounded shoulders 85% of the time if it makes the 15% better. This is why i have never ended up keeping the fit after a bike fitting session other than one that took care of some chronic knee pain.
This is gold and totally lines up with my experience as a cyclist and satisfies the rebel in me that couldn’t stand being a Specialized BG Fit Certified fitter. Another possible remedy to the stem “too short” situation is the Maes Parallel Bar at Rene Herse. Wondering what your thoughts are on that shape.
Excellent explanation. If the stem is too short. Would it cause one to constantly try to move back on the seat.
Great info- you should do a handlebar width
Interesting as always, I just wish you would refer also to the examples shown during the talk. E.g. the guy in this video leaning forward onto the top of the bars - is that actually good or bad? To me he looks exhausted like at the end of a time trial of hard interval sessiion and not a good example for bike fit. Would be great to get pictures like that explained.
I already like this video ❤ just for the most expensive handlebar sample ever to be used for explanation purposes! 😂
The Coefficient's are not actually too ridiculously priced! We have three of them in the family and they're brilliant.
@@mattbarnett6156 not saying they are, actually I am considering buying one, too! 😊Just saying they are the most expensive I have seen so far 😩
I was tending to use the bend behind the hood for a long time, even though my stem and reach got shorter and shorter, to the point that I started hitting the bar with my knees in climbing. Until I saw a bike fitter saying grabbing the bars at the upper bend is an indication of too wide bars. Changed to 360 bars (from 400), and now it feels like the stem length can go out again.
The worst part about getting fit with a shorter stem is that almost every guy you ride with will be like, "Hey, you need a longer stem."
Exactly. And you want to know why mostly? Because their favorite pro Rider rides a bike that's one or two sizes too small and has to use a stem that's ridiculously long or their favorite Muppet mechanic told them so😂🙄
Ride with gals
Ride alone
Same guys who are measuring their "Johnsons" Hey, check out MY stem length! Same guys who take out all the spacers under the stem...so they need compact bars because the drops are too low. Too many bikes are out-of-the-box with integrated everything so you either suffer with it as-is or spend big money/time to make it fit...but it's light and sexy-looking even if you never ride it and just admire it on your wall. I think the bike makers are OK with that?
ignore them
Double thumbs up if I could. Thanks for sharing this information.
My Dope 😎 Solution to top Short of a Stem is to buying shorter Cranks like 152MM.
Nice, is there anything like a table you can sit behind so I can’t see what you’re doing?
Could lowering the cockit also help or would this be counter productive ?
Would you change the reach by flipping a stem or just changing the angle of the stem? Ex: On a 0 degree stem now and as I've gotten a bit more comfortable, flexible, and had more core strength I want it a bit longer. I can do this by going up to a 120mm 0 deg but would a 110mm -6 deg stem be similar in terms of reach from saddle nose to hoods?
Sage advice, as usual.
A piece of advice for anyone with some common sense here: Leave the integrated cockpits for the pros or buy one later on when you're 100% sure your position is correct. I see too many people buying integrated setups and it's a money trap. You can buy aluminium bar and stem combos for 50-60 bucks.
It's not just a money trap it's a vanity trap. So much stupidity of trying to look cool and making the bike look like how it's advertised in videos. Ever seen a 30mm stacked stem on an advertisement? Every damn race bike "has to be slammed" for some reason.
A customer I know swapped his one-piece cockpit for different dimensions about a month or two ago. I told him he should've used a two-piece cockpit first, but he said he loves the clean looks of one-piece cockpits.
@@yonglingng5640 he must have the cash to pay for future maintenance on those hoses and headset
@@yonglingng5640 yeah it's all about looks these days mate. Cycling has become a keep up with the Johnases kind of shit. Hell people will even sacrifice speed and comfort to look cool. See those with slammed setups and zero spacers under the stem that constantly complain about lower back pain and shoulder pain and saddle sores because of the saddle being too high. Chasing that pro look of saddle much higher than the handlebars.
@@christosandreev6392 Yes. I could care less about my shift and brake lines being partially visible. As long as my bike isn't a pain to work on, that's all I need.
Neil picking his nose for the thumbnail, on ya mate! 🤣
I have to run saddle further forward and longer stem, otherwise Im whacking the handlebar with my knees when climbing out the saddle, and this is using 165 cranks at 182cm tall.
Same here. It might be that we have long legs and short torso. I'm 187cm tall with 92cm inseam. How about you?
Never thought of cutting back your ends of the bar?? Do you ever use them? No, I thought so... Hacksaw next.. Rgr
Can you do a video on flat bar stem length or are you just a road bar expert??
Hey Cam, Neil - can you please talk about Pro peleton fitting setups - short cranks, long stems, and zero offset seatposts. We know some of that is due to a compromise in frame sizes available to a whole team, however, and that it may not be a suitable fit for a longer weekend ride, but what else? Whats the advantage of a more forward seating position,
Very helpul thanks
thanks for the video ! could you also indicate what the situation is with the two riders displayed ? are the stems perfect for each of them ? just to have a reference.
greetings from France
I haven't trawled through the comments, but you can often pick up a stem cheaply on Gumtree, if you can't borrow one. Then, you can sell it later, if need be. Use the circular economy!
It would be awesome if you could do some XC fits as well.
The real question : Who needs an integrated cockpit if they are not racing ? And I'd go 1 further, "professionally" !
With this stupid logic. We would all be riding department store bikes 😅
As someone with short reach (long inseam to torso ratio) and raised saddle height of 1cm (due to shorter crank arms of 160), I constantly feel my road bikes are too long for me.
Smaller bikes aren't the answer as they also have short headtube and I refuse to have plenty of spacers and a positive angle stem. That's just fugly.
Instead of looking for stems shorter than 60-70mm, I'm now looking for a short reach bike to begin with. Start with an upright bike so the component changes would balance out the bike to a neutral position.
Look at pinarello, in my opinion the best fitting bike.
While you do make good points about posture on the bike arm length an torso does play a factor in stem length mate. Another issue you didn't address was flexibility and age older Riders tend to have less flexibility Mobility and are also shrinking at very fractional rates but nonetheless bones are still shrinking. Typically Riders over 50-60 years old need to revisit bike fit much more than somebody in their twenties and thirties. Bike fit should be dynamic, it should not be static. It should not be set it once and you're done. Stack height also plays a factor in stem length. It's a very in-depth and complex topic which cannot be covered in a 5 or 10 minute video let alone an hour. The bottom line is experimentation like you suggested
Exactly: lets say the 65 yr old retiree starts riding. They start out inflexible and probably an upright position is great but as they become a more seasoned rider and new muscle groups are woken-up and redeveloping you can get into a more aggressive position it may become more comfortable than the upright. This goes for 30 and 40 somethings as well in their cycling journey. Fresh onto a bike, : upright, after the end of their first year or 3 yrs into it can find a more aggressive posture comfortable.
It's going to be interesting where the E biker retirees go after some time on their ebike.
@@chrkaye1 Yes. Beginning of the season fit can be very different by end of season.
Very good stuff. I have found that the trend for the bar reach has gotten shorter so now my stem feels wrong, but getting a longer reach bar is getting harder. Is there a too long for a stem? I would need to go to 130 to feel great but worry that messes up the weight distribution.
Many pros used 130mm stems without issues.
I just bought a bike with an intergrated cockpit. Waiting for some tools so I can get the cables out of the handlebars to mess around with the cockpit fit 😂
Interesting insights as always, but what do you do when you have chronic pain issues and the discomfort cues are confused or swamped by other issues?
In my case I have moderate to severe pain _all the time_ in the abdomen, low back (all the way across) mid back, upper back, neck, shoulders, shoulder blades, rib cage (all the way round from sternum to side and back) biceps, triceps, hands and fingers, plus top of foot into the lower leg. I'm only supposed to do 15-20 minutes of exercise on non-consecutive days a few times per week, which is obviously as useless as it sounds :/
What would pain between the shoulder blades on longer rides suggest? I assumed that I just need to adjust because the cockpit feels and looks okay, but now I'm not sure.
Pain between the shoulder blades usually means you're trying to get your head and torso lower down, while keeping your arms comfortably straight. Try lower stack height. I'd take out at least 2cm of spacers from underneath the stem, go for a ride and see how it feels.
How much does a pro fit cost?
Compared to stock 400 mm wide handlebars on my bike, find myself needing a long stem on narrow 360 mm ones, for it to not feel cramped.
Yeah, handlebar width definitely affects stem length. I felt a little too stretched out on the stock 46 cm bars on my gravel bike and after replacing them with 40 cm ones, I feel a little cramped with the same stem.
Those integrated-cockpit type bikes look to be quite expensive, so you really have to do a bike fit if you plan to buy one of them.
Nah.
Yes they are. I had a customer ask me if I can install one on his new bike to replace its original two-piece cockpit. The thing is, he has never ridden this bike yet and I doubt he did a bike fit on a fit bike that can replicate this bike's geometry, so I had to deny the request.
I don't want them coming after me when they haven't figured out their ideal on-bike fit yet. It's not my fault that they have this lust for aesthetics.
100mm stem makes my arms hurt more and i tend to hold the hoods like a joystick, however 110mm stem causes way more neck/ back pain. Thoughts?
What is the shortest stem I can install on my bike? Is 90mm or even 80mm still good for road handlebars? Doesn't this indicates the frame size too big for me if I want to switch to shorter than 100mm?
My LBS said 80 is the min otherwise too twitchy. I downsized a frame and now run 115
My Orbea Avant has a 70mm stem and it's fine, little to no difference in bike handling coming from a 100mm stem.
It depends on your height. I have 70mm-90mm fitted on my bikes.For me it's not twitchcy. I'm 4'11, but if your tall you probably have the wrong size bike
In my experience it depends on the bike and frame. I had a 100mm as default on a new bike and it felt way too twitchy on descents, I changed to a 110mm and the increase in stability was massive. That may just be my bike though.
@@cb465 Yes it does, and it depends on the rake of the fork. With a steeper rake, a shorter stem will introduce more of a pronounced change. With a more relaxed fork and head tube, the change is far less noticeable, and in some cases the quicker steering is wanted. My Orbea Avant has a more relaxed fork angle and geometry, so in going to a 70 vs 100mm stem the change is barely perceptible. The bike is plenty stable and in fact I can easily ride with no hands for a mile (and around curves). On my old bike, a Cannondale CAAD9, a shorter stem made it quite twitchy.
i try to setup thing myself over the years, with condition of low flexibility, my hand often numb and always want to place before the hood. however if I do put hand on the hood or drop, my hand and shoulder posture looks fine, still can reach it pretty ok but my upper body feel can't keep up that position for longer time.
I’ve run a 150mm for years, recently found a company making 170mm. I know, ridic- but I have a very long torso relatively- I am quite tall 6’4”. But have seen some pros using a 170. Is it that ridiculous? My recommend frame size is 58 but then I am too cramped with a 150. Idk I think I might as well try the 170 again. (That bike got stolen argh)
I wonder if we should try it on several attempts on a regular fitness condition to ensure the fit?
what kind of handlebar is neil holding in this video?
Thanks to integrated stems and internal hose/ wire routing, “swapping stems” isn’t so easy anymore and definitely not something that can be done quickly in a fit studio.
I’m always wondering about the position from the saddle in the background I have also an smb nymber I tried this position on day after 500m my hands get numbness and my pelvis moves always forward ask u now the ride of this bike can ride 100k in one step? 👍🇦🇹✌️
can you do a video about flat handlebars bikes
Doesnt the reach also depend on how much you can bring down your torso in aero position? I got a new bike and felt like the hoods are too far away. I then did lower my upper body which actually reduces the reach to the hoods.
Would i need to shorten my stem/reach or is it ok to lowering the upper body to compensate as long as it feels comfortable?
Really curious as my new bike is more on the racy end and i thought it actually is made for having your upper body lower to get fast.
That's only if you can sustain your lowered position for a long time. Prioritise the fit of your most frequently used position.
Im definitely too long in the hoods sat up and too short in the tuck 😅
Redshift dual length stem will release after this vid.
What is the brand of that white bike?
I feel my feet are too far foward. However the seat angle is the same as my other bike so is the saddle hight. I am wearing the samke shoses. The crank length is smaller at 165mm. The saddle looks thw same place. I feel I ride more on the nose of the saddle.
Saddle too high, stem too long, saddle too far back can all cause you to sit on the nose.
@@YannickOkpara-d5l Where does balance come into this? I've got my seat cranked as far forward as possible (std offset seatpost) but it's also at maximum extension. riding no handed is next to impossible as the front wants to dart everywhere.
I drop my neck down between my shoulders, and my shoulders protract?
Maybe your handlebars are too high. You might subconsciously be trying to get lower by protracting your shoulders. RCA have a couple of videos on handlebar height
@@Blitzer00979 I feel the drops are too low tbh my neck ache gets too tight during and after rides I'm m pretty flat as it is
@@DontSpySpying Oh sorry, I mixed up retraction and protraction. Yeah, in that case you might want to try raising the bars
Hey what is this handlebar please ? I might be interested eheh
Coefficient RR
@@chris_gb_ thanks !
I need a bike fit so bad it hurts. Because it hurts.
😁
I just picked up a new bike, and i've noticed I naturally want to hold the bars an inch behind the hoods, Not sure if its just my new rider posture wanting to be more upright, or the reach is a bit too long. any way to tell the difference?
My personal rule of thumb is if the angle between your arms and torso is 90° when your elbows are slightly bent when holding onto the hoods, the reach is just right.
just changed my setup after 4 years .
Irs definitely better.....😢
🐐
But I get tired in my triceps, and, feel like I'm having to long of a reach.
i am on 90mm stem.. and there is no shorter one for my BMC Roadmachine. I have shorter arms. I guess I need another bike ^^
I always feel a bit too stretched out.
So my hands are mostly not on the hoods, especially on longer rides.
Need a zero offset seatpost. Also consider going to a narrower bar, it will reduce reach. Try to find a 340mm handlebar
@@kimwarner6050 i have zero offset, i have a narrow handle bar. bmc is just a bit too stretched out for me
@@lastskywalker2481 might just need to sell the bike and buy a smaller size
@@kimwarner6050 a different brand unfortunately ... love my BMC. other brands are up to 2cm shorter within this size segment
So, if you’re getting an integrated cockpit in any capacity - do. your. homework!
"Moderately pedantic but not extraordinarily pedantic" - 😂
can you really go to a 70 or 60mm stem!?!?!? doesn’t that change steering stability a lot?
99% of people have their saddle too high and their stem too long
For comfort or speed?
@@davidfriedt6592 in general when speaking of bikefit… I see so many people on the road with a saddle too high and I also had my saddle way too high in the past its common
For aesthetic.
This is why i dont understand the modern fashion for short reach bars. With a longer reach, you can have both the relaxed position on the tops and the more stretched position on the hoods for faster paced stuff, plus an extra in between hand position on the bend. Also, hoods shouldn't necessarily be the default riding position.
You should ride in a position that allows you to press brakes quickly so either hoods or drops.
How do you keep your wife from locking out her elbows no matter the stem length you try, she also bends her wrist backwards??
According to my wife my stem is too short. She´s been riding for 20 years...
This video could be shorter if it did not repeat the same things repeatedly.
bike fit shouldn't be this complicated.
By a mountain bike 😂
@@charlestarrant2360 mountain bikes dont need bike fit?
@@ozgurinsan less complex. Terrain usually requires more dynamic body position
Everyone is unique. A pro bike fit determined my left leg was 5mm longer and once adjusted to compensate it was night and day.