@@Wilbursson my question is, how are you supposed to know who lapped you and who didn't? you need to memorize the numbers, or the shirt color? If it's not clearly indicated IMO you cant expect anyone to follow such rules. And what if such lapping guy joins the group, everyone behind him should become disqualified? Nonsense. This seems to be the side effect of doing a race with laps, and a one to accept.
@@kocot. yeah as someone who watches f1 shoulda known the rule...but it works differently. Since you ride in a bunch lapping the field on the leaders final lap could lead to some questionable tactics. But its not just lap races, pro women (2nd field) and semi pro men (3rd field) often overlap in gravel races effecting results. Opposed to the video's title theres nothing unfair here and like you said its just something to accept is part of the format.
@@tootles74 thanks 🫡 and yes it was one of my goals this year to get to cat 2. Glad I managed. Has been a shame my first win has escaped me, but that can stay on the goal list for next year!
OK, I bike a fair bit, to work and MTB. I don't cycle as a sport. I don't find cycling, and the whole caterpillar of people drifting after each other interesting... until I watched this video. You're commentary for some reason got me very hyped. Bravo also for letting Nick have his photo-finish!
Haha glad to hear it! Sometimes it can be a bit boring indeed. But crit racing is pretty fast and fun I think! Glad you enjoyed it! The next race is up probably on Sunday. Keep a eye out for it 😃 May have to subscribe to get notified 😇
It’s ridiculous that somehow others thought they had the right to dictate the progression of race tactics. By definition it is every person for themselves. I’m a crap sprinter. Why would I give up my advantage of stamina and good climbing performance because good sprinters would prefer I didn’t ride so hard so they could have a lovely little sprint.
We all play our strong suite for our best outcome . Riders get tossed when then get dropped . Nobody wants to off the back alone in Jamaica queens claasic
@@michaelgraycycling no. I did a few friendly time trials that have no relevance but understand the mechanics of racing a bit. That if a cyclists gets out in front with the wind in their face, they have to hold constant high power, whereas a group can take it in turns, "sprint" for a bit on the front and then take it easy blocked from the wind. Until duelling for the inevitable momentum overtake coming up to the finish line. On a hill, seeing as you can't block gravity. If you think you have a high power to weight over a longish time period, you can get ahead of the group and if you're below about 15 mph, you're not going to get much more wind resistance and may even cool off a bit better compared to a group shielding.
Yea it was great they was there for the race i upgrade in. Funny how I’m no longer a kid but they’re still keen to come and watch me do stuff like this! Hopefully it’ll be me and my kids one day into their adulthood.
Mate as someone who got lapped multiple times, it’s perfectly legal to draft on the wheels of the riders who’s lapped you. For as long as you are not obstructing the race.
@@genqua228 If anything, the lapping rider may not receive assistance from a lapped rider. This is to prevent shenanigans of a rested rider doing the pulls for the lapping rider
@@michaelgraycycling You could have got the win (or second ... I'm still not quite clear on why you didn't get second? Was there another rider that got away that you didn't point out during the video?) after all by getting Nick disqualified 😂
@@mumblecake251 there was another rider up the road. Who I didn’t notice and who I didn’t have footage of. Nick was a lap ahead of me. So I could only get 3rd
This is such a superb explanation of the tactics and strategy of a given race. Also, I am blown away with the telemetry showing the details of what is happening on course and your personal output. Amazing!
Thank you! Hard work gets recognised and it’s very much appreciated. I’ve just uploaded the latest race. Here ya go ruclips.net/video/0b3CSmAr9YY/видео.htmlsi=jB6AlpAwEBVwvtro
@@tedjohnson64 you’re welcome. Was on the very limit a few times in that race. The next race is even harder heart rate wise. I end up setting a new all time highest heart rate for 1 hour. Make sure your subscribed so you get a heads up with I post it. It’s a brutal race 😅
@@michaelgraycycling Indeed, I did subscribe! I have no idea how old you are, but I suspect... that you might be the exception to the rule that max. heart rate is 220 - age.
Utterly, completely not cheating! You rode your race. Riding your own race you created a perfect opportunity to take advantage of a stronger rider. Chapeau!!! Fortune favors the bold!
@@ChrisPriceRUclips yea as in every race, hindsight is a wonderful thing. If I’d have known how strong Nick was or who he was from past meetings I’d have made sure I was glued to his wheel. How long I’d have held it for who knows 😂 Monster.
@@paddymurphy-oconnor8255 it’s a bit bizarre and slightly complicated. I got lapped by Nick. But the other racer was maybe half a lap ahead of me. So technically in between us. So Nick got round to me and saw out the remaining laps with him. But the other rider didn’t get to me. So Nick 1 lap ahead. Rider 2, say half a lap ahead. Then me lapped but Nick. No idea if that makes sense but maybe that probably best way I can explain
@@michaelgraycycling The only way you could've done something wrong, if you sucked Nick's wheel for a few laps to catch second place if Nick managed to catch and lap the second place guy. Perhaps then there would be questions asked, and that's probably still a maybe. But the way it panned out, you got third and you deserved it. Especially the way it all happened. You had to make a jump to catch and pass Nick, and you did your fare share of work out there too.
@@peterlip8 thanks. And yea I agree, if we had caught 2nd place then I’d probably have felt a bit like I shouldn’t have hopped on Nicks wheel AT ALL when he pulled through after I went over the top of him. And I’d like to have think I’d have the sportsmanship to mention that to the commasaires in the scenario for sure. Fair play on the lad that got 2nd. He completely went under the radar!
I know its not a UCI sanctioned crit race but if it is "a lapped rider(s) should not give pace to the rider(s) who have lapped them" - that is the current standing rule. You will be surprised that even large numbers of world tour team riders doesn't even know the rule.
@@guicho271828 as lapped rider you shouldn't get close to the rider who have lapped you. Once you get close, pace or both ways thats automatic DQ. If you are out of top 3 and has been lapped,, marshalls should automatically pulled you out of the race.
That was a fascinating insight into cycle racing tactics. I've watched pro races on TV and have a general idea of what's going on but this provides an understanding and analysis that's on another level, well done!
That’s epic to hear that as sometimes even I get confused with what’s happening on tv haha! Have you watched the next race? It’s a lot harder and has weird dynamic with my team mate ruclips.net/video/0b3CSmAr9YY/видео.html
I am 100% in agreement with you, Michael. I've been a devoted cyclist since my teens in the mid to late 1970s, and, since the 1980s, I've watched tens of thousands of hours of cycling of all varieties, primarily road cycling. I not only support your view, I don't even UNDERSTAND the supposed logic of their arguments. If those guys had cared as much about winning during the race as they were AFTER the race, they could have helped you reel Nick in and not get lapped.
Yea is a shame. However when I was with Nick at the end he was truly motoring. It would have been extremely hard to pull him back anyway going at the speed he was travelling at. I’ve just uploaded the next race video. I hope you enjoy it ruclips.net/video/0b3CSmAr9YY/видео.htmlsi=tF4GAKZSuB6Um3nm
hahaha that was very entertaining, I haven't cycled in years but I still watch pro cycling and this year has been one of the best that I remember. I've never seen amateur cycling before but this POV footage is great, good luck for next year.
Glad to hear it. It’s a great view point! Did you check the race out that follows up from this one? Here ya go ruclips.net/video/0b3CSmAr9YY/видео.htmlsi=JjZNxPWA6alAMEU5
I am an old man now, but I raced in the late 70s & 80s. There has NEVER been anything wrong with what you did, and indeed... everything right. Things never change. There are always people who are whingey little zits who don't understand what it means to compete. Ignore the silly bastards. And congratulations! __NOTE__ that people dislike for making the podium just let's you know that you're doing something right.
Thank you very much :) what was racing like back then? Here is the next race video ruclips.net/video/0b3CSmAr9YY/видео.htmlsi=jB6AlpAwEBVwvtro hope you enjoy
Only just come across your channel, Michael and despite having never raced before (and at 43, having no intention of racing in the future! 🤣), I found this fascinating and really interesting to watch. Great video and an awesome insight in to the tactics and your thought processes. Sounds like sour grapes from the other racers to me though, and you thoroughly deserved your podium place. Loved that your folks were there cheering you on, too. Hope to be doing the same for my boy in a good few years. Congrats on the Cat 2 level up too. 👌🏼
For what it is worth, I started racing at age 53. Only achieved cat 4 (one up from cat 5), and got lapped lots of times. But it was fun and extremely hard work.
@@lorenwillis425 Fair play. Maybe I'm ruling myself out too soon then, Loren. Friends do keep bugging me to join a few Zwift races, so maybe I should give it a go, as watching this video did make it look fun.
@@petertreadway much appreciated and I’m glad you enjoyed it! Never to late to start racing! 😄 and yeah it’s great they’re there. Even though I’m not a child any more and am in my mid 30s it’s funny how they still want to watch me compete in things 😄 Hope to be doing the same with my kids into their adult life also. How old is your lad,m? Does he cycle much? I’d love to get my kids into it, but they show no interest currently and I don’t want to force it on them and they end up hating it. I’m just waiting for them to find it 😆
@@petertreadway zwift races is what exactly started me off! In fact from the very first winter of me starting cycling. Check this video and you’ll see me when I started and my zwift races I Tried Cycling For 1,574 Days, this is what happened ruclips.net/video/9LOPZk5U4Uw/видео.html
Nice video Michael and congrats with the 3th (2nd?) place! Though in (club)races in the Netherlands (where I race) this is considered illegal. When a person/group laps another group they are not allowed to follow/drag. But the rules should be explained before the race, so it's clear to everyone what's allowed and what is not.
@@dannytennisser thank you! 😄 This isn’t the case in the uk however it seems your country and couple of others have different rule. But also when I attacked I went straight over the top of Nick with no intention of using him however I couldn’t have helped him getting onto my wheel and then pulling through. And you can see 1 lap after the attack at 18:21 that my focus is just on keeping going full gas to get to the line as quick as I can regardless of him being there or not. Would that still have been the case in the Netherlands with me doing that?
Fantastic race, how you can keep your heart rate above 180 for the whole race is crazy! When I get over 170, I start getting tunnel vision, even when I was 28 and running 3 hour marathons!
Everyone’s heart rate is individual and unique to them. That heart rate for you is probably the equivalent of above 180 odd for me. My threshold is 177
I think it's really nice for Nick to finally get on someone's wheel, too. Even if you're somehow taking advantage of him, you're giving it right back to him
Hello from the US. Nick is a Beast and sounds like you are also ready for cat 2. There was no problem at all with what you did, the guys in the peloton that got lapped and pissed about what you did are just stupid and not racers. I never liked people who sat up at the front, especially if its not their teammate. So I would always crank the pace back up. I came to race, not do a club ride. Good on you! Keep it up.
Yea man I’m there to race! If they want a certain scenario to play out it’s up to them to physically do it rather than moan and say it verbally post race. Ah well. Thanks for the kind words. Do you race too?
As long as he was in the same category as you then its legal. No issues. However if he was in B cat and you were in C then it would be illegal to draft off him. Fair play to you... you had the killer instinct and desire...the others were happy to sit in and hope for the best.
Damm nick was a beast 331 watt average vs 195. That really shows how much difference there is riding solo for a long time vs in a group. Congrats on that 3rd place and promotion.
@@Nelthalin thank you. And yea big difference. I imagine his NP would have been similar to his 330. With all my efforts during the race my NP was 241. Still almost 100 watt different
@@michaelgraycycling lol, I mean you can respect the watts but here in NZ it would be considered laughably burglar behaviour to enter a Cat 3 race and avg 33W for 50min.
@@cmathews1 Genuine question, what's the etiquette for someone who has a high FTP like a triathlete or indoor rider but who is new to crit racing? Should they not go off the front even if they could hold 330 watts for an hour?
@@mountainstatebikeworks5578no earlier in the race someone else went who I didn’t notice. Or have footage off. So Nick lapped me. But the rider who got second didn’t lap me.
Yeah it made no sense, he thought he'd finished the race behind the guy who lapped him - but if you're lapped then you still have a lap to go. So the guy he was drafting was just the guy in 2nd place and, ironically, he let him go over the line in front of him.
@@michaelgraycycling I think I spotted the second place finisher get away. That 3 man breakaway at the 2:50 mark... They got away, then "Rodney" goes and 4 others hop on his wheel, so 5 are chasing in front of you. So you have the 3 + 5 = that's 8 in front of you. If you squint ahead, it looks like the 3 that were ahead, are now 2, and one of them is a bit further up. Sure enough, when you say it's all back together, you only catch 7 riders not 8, and you can see another single further up the road. Was that who finished second??? Or did you catch him at some point. Still 33k to go at that stage. Possibly he did get away, as there was a bit of stuffing around after that which would allow him to build the gap.
Hi Michael, I don’t mean to be dense, but can you explain the ending? Nick had lapped you, so when you got to the photo finish, should you have had another lap to go? And I’m still confused why you got third instead of second?
@@photog2903 hey not dense at all. And it’s a common question amongst racers. We all finish on the same lap as whoever crosses the line first. So if we get lapped. The winner is pretty much already decided. So we will all finish on his last lap. Rather than do a extra lap. Not sure if you watched the part of me talking to my mum and dad immediately post race, as I was confused too. But my dad told me that a guy in yellow snuck off away also in that part of the video. Someone I had no idea about and that I didn’t have on video, so he must have snuck off somewhere in the race. I hope that makes sense?
@@michaelgraycycling So the guy in yellow, second, he wasn't lapped so he had to complete the final lap, as the winner had done? But since everyone else was lapped, no-one else completed the scheduled final lap? So what happens if he has a crash and breaks a wheel - he can still carry his broken bike around the track for the next 15 minutes and still get second? And what happens if Nick laps you but then drops back and you cross the finish line before he does - are you still considered 'lapped status' because you were lapped at one point and can then stop? Or are you no longer lapped and therefore have to go around again? I'm sure it makes sense to all you racers but it seems a messy & convoluted way of doing things from an outsiders perspective.
@@chocolate_squiggle 100%. Racing isn’t usually this complicated. So I can feel your pain being a new watcher. Even racers get confused at times when lapping starts happening. However get lapped is fairly uncommon. In fact apperently it was the first time someone has lapped the peloton this year at this circuit. Anyway…. Yes 2nd place had to finish the final lap. As he was already on it when me and Chris rolled over the finish line. And damn that is a fantastic question if he crashes 😂 never even thought of that haha but yes he would still get second as everyone else at the point has been withdrawn from the race and positions given - I assume. Amazing question! 🤯 Lapped status - so technically if I rolled over before Nick. No I wouldn’t be lapped as he didn’t finish a lap up on me. HOWEVER as we both got given the bell “final lap” as we both crossed the line with 1 lap to go together. I wouldn’t have had to do a extra lap no. But yea it’s normally this complicated 😂
Of course you did the right thing! It’s a race, if there’s a wheel you can get on, you get on it. It doesn’t matter how much time that rider is ahead of you, drafting and riding your own race are just called “racing”, not “cheating”. What the other riders complaining were doing is called “whining” and “losing”…! Congrats on moving up to Cat2, time to ramp up the training regimen😎❤
It is indeed, thanks! But first a little bit more chill for the off season before building back up again to next season. Got the final race of the year being uploaded today, hope you enjoy
sorry to change the subject to tech for a second but, what program did you use to overlay the data? I have tried 4 different programs today and can't seem to to get it to work. Thanks for your time. 👍
nice video! I find it amazing with these power outputs and speeds, there are so many racers not in the drops or aero position. I guess they have too much power to spare.
for me the crazy part of all this racing is you have to think so much. I wouldnt be able to think of strategy at constant 180/190bpm that's for sure. So insane how you were also able to launch attack on attack. Congrats on making it. Interesting that their bad "decision" on strategy is blamed as cheating.
Thanks! Wierdly if I’m indoors training, I can’t watch anything when my heart rate is high. I just can’t concentrate. But I guess a race is different! :)
Not cheating good strong race agreed with all you said. Interesting to see sometimes after a race people say and do things they wouldn’t normally. Maybe fatigue and frustration all in one 🤷♂️ P.s the like isn’t for dodgy cornering 🤪
@@leewood4825 yea probably just that post race frustration, we’ve all been there. I’d have just kept it to myself and accept its my own problem. And thanks, I thought I was going into the clubhouse for a second 😂
I've never raced a Road race, although you've explained what they were moaning about I struggle to understand why? A race is a race. No "in race" decisions by the peloton can influence the outcome. That's BS of the highest. Rules are rules. Don't worry about it.
Thank you 😊 have you checked out the next race? You can find it here. Hope you enjoy the channel :) ruclips.net/video/0b3CSmAr9YY/видео.htmlsi=BZ5_HwlAmpJxyyON
Hey I like the data overlay. What software are you using for it? I've been using Virb for years but it's a dead product and every day it still works is a surprise. Need to move to something else. So what are you using here? Thanks
Yea they did. The stupid thing was, all they had to do was continue to sit on his wheel in the first place, hold their good positions and just continue to let him lead them out. Think they got angry with their own stupidity
Don't stress over it Michael. Its a chipper in the grand scheme of things. You performed well and looked like you were enjoying yourself which is what is should be about.
When I started racing, I was taught that if you get lapped you don't do anything with the riders who've lapped you. No drafting or pulling, just let them go by. This is both for road racing and crits. I don't know if there is a specific rule about it or not, at least in America, but it is common courtesy. If it's not against the rules, what ever, you did nothing wrong. Update: this is from the USAC rule book, not applicable to you but in America it is against the rules For road races 3C3. A lapped rider or one who has fallen too far behind and is considered to be out of contention may be called off the course by the Chief Referee. Riders on different laps may not give or receive pace from one another. A lapped rider must not interfere in any prime sprint or finishing sprint and must ride sufficient laps at the end so as to cover the entire distance in order to qualify for a prize, unless excused by the Chief Referee from covering the full distance. For crits 3D4. Riders who have lost contact with the field, and are then caught by a breakaway from the field, may not lead. Riders off the front of the field may not accept assistance from riders who have lost contact with the back of the field. Lapped riders may rejoin and race with the field in cases where lapped riders are not being withdrawn by the officials.
Interesting. I guess though I wasn’t off the back of the field at all. So I don’t think 3D4 would be applicable anyway. As I wasn’t a dropped rider from the field. 3C3 of a RR though sounds different in terms of pacing one another. This race is was 45 minutes + 3 laps. So not distance based
@@michaelgraycycling Fantastic commentary and video, but perhaps chat with your local mates to agree on race etiquette, it is kind of a grey area. Your group let Nick go away before you attacked your way back up, which is not as clear an issue as if you jumped on and he towed you away. But like comeridewithmeAE, our local American culture frowns on mixing. The only time I ever lapped the field we just rode past the peloton and they didn't interact. The reason is we were a group of four, so the podium was still undecided, and any other riders mixing with us would have potentially changed the results of our sprint and finish order. Likewise, although you didn't know it at the time, there was another rider lapping, and if he was close and trying to catch Nick, he might have a legitimate objection to your sharing pulls with Nick. If you were teammates with Nick, it would clearly be unfair to intentionally help him stay ahead of the 2nd place rider, under our rulebook. If yours is silent on mixing with lapped riders than tactics like dropping back to help a rider finish lapping would be acceptable. But there is only so much road, and it is difficult to avoid some appearance of drafting if you are both trying to stay away from your respective chasers, so it is kind of a fine line between a technical foul and sour grapes protest.
100% you did the right thing. A sprint for 2nd or 3rd place is a recipe for a stupid crash at that level so nothing wrong with you choosing to avoid the sprint. Not your fault that the others chose not to follow Mr Beastmode through who could have just sat at the back of the peloton but was obviously trying to set a PB time or something.
@@maniamuse1319 thanks. He went to the front for safety he said. Didn’t want the risk of anyone falling in front of him and it ruining his race! Fair play!
forget all the stuff, my goodness, the real star of this video is when you see who nick is on the podium. Was expecting ripped young dude but my god... fair play.
Ha - a 45 year old, past his prime, Dad who is desperately trying to fight off the effects of ageing, trains hard and tries to maximise the (limited) natural abilities I was born with.
@@verkxfnn Nick “has entered the chat”. Super glad you’ve got this video for the memories! I hope I keep progressing so that when I’m 45 i am strong as you 🫡 when the bloody hell was your prime though!?
@@timdgoodwin thanks Tim! I remember you telling me about the stupid amount of money you’d spend on bike items when we was in Marbella. And I’d think you was mental. Now I’m that exact person 😂
@@michaelgraycycling mountain bikes only at the moment... A custom built Geometron G1 and Trek Rail 9.8 XT Although now I've moved house I'm looking at road/gravel bikes again... fancy a steel framed Fairlight Strael or their gravel bike
Everyone entering a race should be clear on what the rules are, and that is one of those rules that should be very clear in the rulebook. If it is not clear, it should be inquired of, or if not stated, then it can't be held against the rider. You could simply ask, "Where does it say I can't do that".
Welcome to Cat 2. Now the real fun begins racing against P,1, and 2's. We don't complain about who got lapped as long as they are not in the way of the field. Now you will see how spicy it can get.
You did nothing wrong. I've been in only 2 criteriums (mtn biker - now old codger) - but it is not incumbent upon the slower riders to "stay with the lapped riders". Great video - I love the commentary because it gives a feel for what goes on (you don't know who is who, what is happening, etc.).
since Ive been a sportman and also a gentleman in sports for all my life, I would say that when you sit behind someone who lapped you, you are cheating. - it doesnt matter if "they did it" - to justify your own actions, its cheating, if the rules for a race like that states that you cant sit behind someone who lapped you. yet I dont know the rules to a race like this. but the sports Ive been doing, ( kayaking ) - you are not allowed to hang on faster boats classes than your own "group" - imagen me in a kayak k1 ( single man boat ) being pulled by 2x kayak k2 ( two man boats ) and I just surfe the waves behind them all the way... not allowed !
@@dkphantomdk turns out it wasn’t cheating. Whether you see it as justifying in the video is for your opinion, it’s me stating that they was quite happy when they did the very same thing they wasn’t happy with me doing. Having to justify shouldn’t really be something I should be having to do on this occasion because it wasn’t cheating. He also isn’t in a faster class than me. He’s in the exact same race. So I’m not hanging on and using someone from a different race. Which also means it isn’t cheating. The result was it WASN’T cheating at all. The only people unsportsmanlike like and un gentleman like were the bad sportsman who were ungracious in defeat. If no rules are broken you shouldn’t act in that way. A “nice work, fair play, I should’ve attacked when you attacked” is how they should have responded. Vs throwing the toys out the pram.
@@michaelgraycycling like I said, I dont know the rules of the race, but if no rules are broken then its fair game and no cheating is detected ! - unless there is a unified gentlemens agreement in the peleton to not "do that".. but if there wasnt, then .. again, fair game, fair victory. noone should restrain them self in sports just because other people think "you should" !
Congratulations on moving up! You did what you had to do, and it was a smart move. I remember one race where we lapped a group of 4-6 riders at the beginning of the final lap. I was at the front of the peloton and unobtrusively weaseled my way through the lapped riders, calmly rolled out a gap on the other side, and pulled ahead to win solo. My teammates noticed it but the rest of the peloton didn't. After crossing the line, I went back to admire the sprint for 2nd (which they thought was 1st). I was hopeless at sprinting. The day I "graduated" from cat 2 to cat 1 was memorable, one of those rare days when one can do no wrong. A cat1/2 race, I broke away at the start of lap 2 with a cat 1 guy, built a 1:15 lead, halfway through he wore out, fortunately a chase group of 5 caught of us, better yet including my mentor (who was fresh because he sat in given I was ahead). My mentor and I gradually whittled it down to 3, took turns attacking the 3rd guy, dropped him, then finished 1-2 (my mentor 1st of course). I got two gigantic trophies (2nd overall and 1st cat 2) and kisses from two Mexican-American beauty queens in traditional attire (the event was in LA, celebrating some Mexican holiday). Back to earth with a thud when I got home and my housemate exclaimed "YOU won THOSE???" In a week or so I was elevated to cat 1.
@@paulflory3532 that is a sweet move to pull i in that first race you mentioned. Nice work! And that sounds like a brilliant memorable day getting your cat 1 🔥 that’s what it la all about. Making memories and having a great time. I hope you enjoy the channel and give some more cool stories in the comments!
@@michaelgraycycling Neglected to mention that this gave me a real appreciation for the trophy girl thing. For a guy, exhausted after a tough race, there’s something wonderful about an attractive female stranger giving you a kiss as you stand on the podium. No idea if the same would be true if the situation were reversed after a women’s race. I do realize times have changed.
all the cheating/not cheating discussion seems pointless to me, and an unimportant nuance. But that video has explained better group riding dynamics than all of the biking videos I've seen before.I don't do racing so the motiviation of people pulling the group (or not) was always a mystery to me.
Great race and commentary man. Have you checked out Fresh Crits (Aussie guy)? I want to get into crit racing and Fresh Crits has been getting my psyched. This was a fun clip to watch!
Ah cool. I haven’t but funnily enough I’ve just watched a clip of his from the Amy’s grand fondo on Chris Miller Cycling. So I’ll have to check out his channel. Where are you from?
Ah brilliant. Sounds like you’re loving it if you’re looking at crits! This is my journey > ruclips.net/video/9LOPZk5U4Uw/видео.htmlsi=_ssGFB945U4y6t6k
What you did was completely fair. Nothing wrong at all. Can't stand wheel sucking sprinters, who play games and then get mad when someone decides to attack from a long way out. F them! If they didn't like it they should have worked together to pull you back. Instead, all those wheel suckers played games and they lost. 🙂
interesting one! I actually wouldn't have been sure about this, but good to know it's allowed now! I might double check French rules for myself (I'm based / race there). I know people get crazy angry here if people ever even slightly draft on other groups during a race (we often have two categories racing at the same time, e.g. Cat 2 and 4 will be on the course at the same time - which is mad in itself), and people do get really angry if people even draft for a small amount of time. Great video though! You might enjoy my channel btw ;)
Yea that definitely is not allowed for sure. That applies in the races over here too. A lot of our races have different category races at the same time. The next race I did was a e123 and it’s on at the same time as the cat 4’s. You can check it out here ruclips.net/video/0b3CSmAr9YY/видео.htmlsi=JjZNxPWA6alAMEU5 Are there many crit circuits in France? Not seen any ever pop up on my YT
Did you scratch or bite? No? What about pushing or blocking? None of those either? Did you break any other rule? Commissairs say no? Well, then: congrats to you for your podium! Well done, and well deserved! In my first race it was a race for second place, too, and some guys agreed on sprinting it out. I didn't get told, so I went quite a bit from the finish and got second place. I didn't do anything wrong, so it was a fair placement. Still, the moaning gets to you. What a shame.
@@matteodiluce9387 exactly and nice work. I didn’t want a sprint either. So I raced to what I know I can do well and that’s go early like you. Even if you did get told, who cares, race your race. They can agree on sprinting it, just because they do doesn’t mean we do 👊 Do you still race? And what a great placing for a first race. Well done.
@@michaelgraycycling Right, it's not a coffee tour, it's a race. 🤷♂😁 Thanks, the first one was a local race, and I was pretty fit from running middle distances before for a few years. It took them just a few seconds too long to respond. I then fell in love with inline speedskating (same race dynamics with drafting etc.) and realised I was technically a little less terrible at it than most. There are a few videos in my YT account here. Plus I came to realise I was actually a decent sprinter: in a test I put out 1675 Watts on an accurate bike ergometer at 74 kgs. Went on to win quite a few national masters championships in skating, all the while riding the bike for fun and enjoying it. I quit skating, and started racing in a velomobile and on recumbent bikes. It's fascinating (167 kilometres in three hours 🥳feels awesome!). I'm planning on doing a few bike races locally next year and participating in the recumbent world championships. That's thirty years in five sentences for you. 🤓 Keep up the great work -- on the bike as well as with the videos. It's always a pleasure to watch.
Wow that cool. I actually haven’t really watched inline speed skating so I’ll head to your channel and give it a nose. They actually do speed skating in this course, so I’ll have a nose at your channel. Jeeze that’s some sprint! Fair play.
Awesome, congrats! Do you keep your CAT2 license for good (unless you level up) or what are the minimum requirements to keep it going / can you get dropped back to CAT3?
Great question. So next year I’ll be cat 2 all year. 2025. To stay as cat 2 for the following year, 2026, I have to earn a minimum of 25 points. If I don’t then I drop down to cat 3. The only thing you can’t do, is end up going back to cat 4. If I want to get cat 1, I’d need to earn 200 points next year. Which I think will be a tough tough ask. I know people who get to cat 2. Find it so hard, that they make sure they don’t get enough points to remain so they can go back to cat 3 for the following year. I’m going to make it my goal for next year, to be competitive in e123 and remain cat 2. And realistically aim to win a cat 2/3 race, as I think to win a e123 race will be to hard. I’m just editinf the next video, which is a e123 that I did the following weekend after this race you’ve just watched. So make sure your subscribed to see how it went down. It was bloody hard! 🤣
For those that disagree with you and the official they should read the rulebook. Like some else said as long as you do not impede the lead guy you are fine. I had the same thing happen to me in a crit and the official pulled me out to the break but later apologized later when we looked at the rulebook and saw I was the right.
Poor losers are everywhere. I remember when my son competed in a Boy Scout Pinewood Derby tournament, the father of one of the other kids created a huge fuss about how his child was robbed of a victory. And there weren't even any prizes, just a photocopied certificate. Disgraceful behaviour at an event designed to promote creativity and sportsmanship!
Not how racing works..all races are supposed to finish on the winning riders lap, riders who have been lapped have their results denoted w a minus and number -1 or -2 in this race. That number is how many laps down when they finished.Riders who are out of contention by rules, depending on race announcement, if race is only recognizing or paying top 6 or 10 deep riders who are lapped should be pulled for this exact reason, lapped riders on the road should not be working with rider who have lapped them . This is becoming a huge sex issue in gravel and mountain bike racing with mass mixed starts w female riders working w male riders from another category of race . Categories should not mix unless race officials say so in advance and referee should have made a ruling about lapped riders before the race, not during or after.. many track races are won by lapping the field and then sitting in until the finish..many cyclocross events have riders finishing multiple laps down because spacing allows officials to keep track..in club racing you pull riders who are toast and may screw up and be in the way of final sprint..
I'm not a cyclist at all (I'm a runner) but found your video really interesting. I can't believe how sore those losers were. Why is there such a morality when it comes to cycling? this is a race for everyone surely? so you deploy whatever tactics it takes to win as long as it's legal i.e. no drugs or james bond style dropping nails on the road or oil slicks etc... Why wasn't nick chastised for winning?
Exactly. But mental! They were busy just waiting for the sprint. And clearly all had the “I should have done that” emotion after the race. First cycling race you’ve watched?
@@michaelgraycycling just by chance I saw it, I just happened to look right when the chain dropped. otherwise I probably would have missed it as well watching the video 🙂.
Congratulations on your promotion! I'd like to know what rule they thought you were breaking. I marshal some kids/youth/junior races (my teenage sons race road, track, MTB, BMX and occasionally cross (I wish they would pick a discipline) while I'm just a casual mountain biker). I have heard commissaires say that the lapping rider cannot draft riders they have lapped, and also that riders that have been lapped cannot draft the lapped rider. For the races that I've marshalled it's not normally a problem as the lapped riders get pulled out well before the end, to avoid slower riders getting caught up in the final sprint.
@@Kradlum thank you 😄 is going to be a whole lot harder next year. Not sure if you watched the following race to this, but ah man was a lot lot harder 😂 it’s just here if yiu fancy it ruclips.net/video/0b3CSmAr9YY/видео.html Rule break i have no idea what rule they thought it was. I just wanted to crack on and wasn’t really keen on being lapped 😂
After about 30 seconds I almost clicked away because I thought the title had been clickbait however I didn’t and I am glad I didn’t as I really enjoyed this
Almost did the same. But I haven't race for years, so it was a blast from the past watching and listening to your thought process too. Great vid Michael.
@@peterlip8 thank you! Lots of other videos on the channel to try and keep your attention haha has given you a slight bit of temptation to maybe race again!?
@@michaelgraycycling Ha. Tempted, but also not. My physiology is a sprinter, but my psychology isn’t. Raced in masters in my early 40’s, and really only did well in the road race season (winter), where the packs had whittled down by the end. The summer crit season I didn’t have the mental push to fight against bigger groups. Gave it away after a few years, mainly because of work/family pressures getting in front of training. Now at 58, I have more time, and really enjoying just being on the bike, rather than trying to fight for sprinters position in a large pack. I’m happy to just watch vids like yours. 😊
Think it's mainly about whether you're getting an advantage or not. When we race at Combe you know we're not allowed to jump onto the back of the E12 group. But there have often been times where we've been snarled up in the final lap because we've caught them back up and are then all sprinting together. I actually lost out on 2pts at Combe because it was deemed I came 5th (because it was a bunch sprint with the E12s as well) when actually I was the 3rd Cat 3 rider to finish. Swings and roundabouts. Win some. Lose some.
Yea this is a slightly different nuance as the e12 race is a different race. This race was a rider from the cat 3 field lapping. So unlike not being able to jump on the back of different race, this racer lapping was in the same race. Also when I attack I’m not looking to use him. I come over the top of him and gets on to my wheel. Like you say swings and roundabouts. How has your year of racing gone? Think I only raced at Combe once or twice this year.
@@michaelgraycycling Oh...to be clear, I think you were well within your rights to do what you did. I would have done the same. Was just saying other riders often get stroppy when they think you've gained an 'advantage' (but mainly because they weren't strong enough to go with you!). My season was good overall. Nabbed a clutch of Cat 3 points and finished 5th in the Latton 10mile TT series, so none too shabby. Now a winter of ZRL racing to look forward to!
@@werdsmyth ah cool. Goal cat 2 next year as well? It’s been a while since I raced on zwift. May have to eye it up to keep having some fun and competition
He was in the wind for the full race. Where I can suck wheels and coast around a lot in the wheels of the peloton. Especially on that down hill towards the clubhouse. Also other difference would be he’s taller than me. Meaning he’d have to put out more power to carry the same speed as his body is hitting more air.
As someone that isn't a 'pro' but enjoys racing my shadow on my enduro, road and gravel bike. Trying to keep pace with an S-WORKS is something else 😅. On my commute home I've bumped into the SL7 tarmac S-WORKS. I was on my single speed carbon road bike and I had him on the hills, had him in the corner but the moment it came to the straight he was long gone.
If I'd be one of them I'd be soo ashamed I'd quit cycling immediately maybe. That's how embarrassing and pathetic it is. "Fremdschamerregend" we would say in germany.
I feel your pain. Trying to play about with the settings. Can’t help but get annoying camera shake. The standard settings just make the footage seem extremely slow and unrealistic with no motion blur although it gives zero shake. Maybe will try a faster frame rate and shutter speed next time 👍 either way hope you enjoyed the video
nice race! can you recommend any shorts with decent padding? i'm a heavier lad (100kg) getting back into zwift racing but cannot seem to find a pair of shorts that will let me sit in the saddle for longer zone two rides without destroying my rear end!
@@Xiacium my main shorts I use day to day are some old rapha ones. Maybe like 2 - 3/4 years old now 🥴 but regardless I always find being indoors more uncomfortable then outside anyway. Sorry not a helpful reply
How is it cheating if the peloton has no authority in the rules to dictate the pace and speed of another rider. Also, where is the rule that says you can't draft off another rider? Total muppets the lot of them. As for Nick, you called it, he's an absolute beast. For the extra two km/h he burnt an extra 400 Cal over you with an astonishing extra 136 watts Avg Power. That is something to behold.
@@Bodkin_Ye_Pointy exactly. Yes and total beast. I had a lot of coasting the draft of the peloton. My normalised power was 241, still about 90 watts less!
People would only call that cheating because they didn’t think to do it or didn’t have the capacity to do it. If the leader hasn’t yet finished the race then he’s still in it and you can work with him and sit on his wheel.
Thanks for wishing me the best. People can have their opinion. Although the intro straight away does ask the question in the 5 seconds “I need your opinion, was this cheating?” The thumbnail title graphics has “was this cheating” on it. Which coincides with the thumbnail of a circle around Nick’s wheel which I’m holding which the other racers thought was cheating. Not to sure how that is clickbait. By asking the question was this cheating in the thumbnail and intro. It sounds like you’ve answered the question I was asking in the first sentence of the video with your opinion. Which sounds like you didn’t think it was cheating. But was hoping to watch a video where you think it WAS cheating therefor you deem it as clickbait 🤷♂️
@@michaelgraycycling 1. Thanks for sharing and the comments.good inside for anyone who is not into that sport.2nd. the title is "Cyclist Caught Cheating On His OWN Camera" and in my view that is clickbait, because that is what i clicked for .No Problem for me because this was very interesting to watch even without cheating.another title could have been " how i finally got my cat.2 race license" congrats for taht and good luck with the next races
in CRITS it's never been a thing that you can't race with someone who has lapped you.. however in road races, it is cheating to draft someone who isn't in your category.
By the end of this video my hrm was about 195 and I literally was all wet by sweat😅 good race, and yeah, that Nick is a natural beast. But as long as you compete such guys you are making urself the same beast as they are✊️
Don’t forget to subscribe, you can find the next race here ruclips.net/video/0b3CSmAr9YY/видео.htmlsi=jB6AlpAwEBVwvtro
His race was over. You cheated riding on the wheel of someone who should no longer be in the race.
@@Wilbursson we finish on the same lap as the lead rider. There’s no extra laps to be done
@@Wilbursson tf you mean his race was over, he had a lap to complete lol.
@@Wilbursson my question is, how are you supposed to know who lapped you and who didn't? you need to memorize the numbers, or the shirt color? If it's not clearly indicated IMO you cant expect anyone to follow such rules. And what if such lapping guy joins the group, everyone behind him should become disqualified? Nonsense. This seems to be the side effect of doing a race with laps, and a one to accept.
@@kocot. yeah as someone who watches f1 shoulda known the rule...but it works differently. Since you ride in a bunch lapping the field on the leaders final lap could lead to some questionable tactics. But its not just lap races, pro women (2nd field) and semi pro men (3rd field) often overlap in gravel races effecting results. Opposed to the video's title theres nothing unfair here and like you said its just something to accept is part of the format.
100% you did the right thing in this video,there's nothing wrong with riding your own race to achieve the goals you've set.Congrats on reaching Cat 2👍
@@tootles74 thanks 🫡 and yes it was one of my goals this year to get to cat 2. Glad I managed. Has been a shame my first win has escaped me, but that can stay on the goal list for next year!
OK, I bike a fair bit, to work and MTB. I don't cycle as a sport. I don't find cycling, and the whole caterpillar of people drifting after each other interesting... until I watched this video. You're commentary for some reason got me very hyped. Bravo also for letting Nick have his photo-finish!
Haha glad to hear it! Sometimes it can be a bit boring indeed. But crit racing is pretty fast and fun I think! Glad you enjoyed it! The next race is up probably on Sunday. Keep a eye out for it 😃 May have to subscribe to get notified 😇
It’s ridiculous that somehow others thought they had the right to dictate the progression of race tactics. By definition it is every person for themselves. I’m a crap sprinter. Why would I give up my advantage of stamina and good climbing performance because good sprinters would prefer I didn’t ride so hard so they could have a lovely little sprint.
We all play our strong suite for our best outcome . Riders get tossed when then get dropped . Nobody wants to off the back alone in Jamaica queens claasic
@@Chiller11 exactly that. Work those advantages!
It's usually not done due to aerodynamic resistance and fatigue, but a hill starts to make everything more linear and power to weight starts to shine.
@@TimpBizkit indeed. Do you race a lot?
@@michaelgraycycling no. I did a few friendly time trials that have no relevance but understand the mechanics of racing a bit. That if a cyclists gets out in front with the wind in their face, they have to hold constant high power, whereas a group can take it in turns, "sprint" for a bit on the front and then take it easy blocked from the wind. Until duelling for the inevitable momentum overtake coming up to the finish line.
On a hill, seeing as you can't block gravity. If you think you have a high power to weight over a longish time period, you can get ahead of the group and if you're below about 15 mph, you're not going to get much more wind resistance and may even cool off a bit better compared to a group shielding.
Ridiculous. I’m embarrassed for them. And the interaction between you and your folks was lovely! Nice job.
Yea it was great they was there for the race i upgrade in. Funny how I’m no longer a kid but they’re still keen to come and watch me do stuff like this! Hopefully it’ll be me and my kids one day into their adulthood.
@@michaelgraycycling And then you’ll understand completely the joy we get seeing our children happy. It’s incomparable!
100%. I love watching my kids play football on Saturday mornings. Not even a sport in bothered about until they play!
Mate as someone who got lapped multiple times, it’s perfectly legal to draft on the wheels of the riders who’s lapped you. For as long as you are not obstructing the race.
Exactly. In fact maybe I should have just sat on his wheel for the entire time and make sure not to obstruct him 😆
@@genqua228 If anything, the lapping rider may not receive assistance from a lapped rider. This is to prevent shenanigans of a rested rider doing the pulls for the lapping rider
So either it was all wrong 😂
@@michaelgraycycling You could have got the win (or second ... I'm still not quite clear on why you didn't get second? Was there another rider that got away that you didn't point out during the video?) after all by getting Nick disqualified 😂
@@mumblecake251 there was another rider up the road. Who I didn’t notice and who I didn’t have footage of. Nick was a lap ahead of me. So I could only get 3rd
This is such a superb explanation of the tactics and strategy of a given race. Also, I am blown away with the telemetry showing the details of what is happening on course and your personal output. Amazing!
Thank you! Hard work gets recognised and it’s very much appreciated. I’ve just uploaded the latest race. Here ya go ruclips.net/video/0b3CSmAr9YY/видео.htmlsi=jB6AlpAwEBVwvtro
The heart rate overlay was fascinating! Thanks for adding that, most videos I’ve seen just show watts and mph.
@@tedjohnson64 you’re welcome. Was on the very limit a few times in that race. The next race is even harder heart rate wise. I end up setting a new all time highest heart rate for 1 hour. Make sure your subscribed so you get a heads up with I post it. It’s a brutal race 😅
Yea. but hitting almost 200? :D I would likely puke, faint or both. Too old, I guess 170..5 is what I manage to get lately.
@@madyogi6164 yea I think my heart rate is higher than most people i see
@@michaelgraycycling Indeed, I did subscribe! I have no idea how old you are, but I suspect... that you might be the exception to the rule that max. heart rate is 220 - age.
Yea I think I am for sure. I’m 36. I think 😂
Anyone saying you cheated doesn't understand bike racing. Definitely not cheating.
@@KennyBellau thanks 🫡. Just race the bike and get on with it!
Utterly, completely not cheating! You rode your race. Riding your own race you created a perfect opportunity to take advantage of a stronger rider. Chapeau!!! Fortune favors the bold!
Thank you. Regardless of whether he was there not I was going the moment it slowed up as it’s worked all second half of the season for me 😄
What sore losers! You’ve absolutely done the right thing. They’re probably gutted that they didn’t do what you did. Well done on third place! 🥉
@@ChrisPriceRUclips yea as in every race, hindsight is a wonderful thing. If I’d have known how strong Nick was or who he was from past meetings I’d have made sure I was glued to his wheel. How long I’d have held it for who knows 😂 Monster.
How do you get 3rd being lapped? Lapped by 2 breaA then latch unto them as they go past the second time?
@@paddymurphy-oconnor8255 it’s a bit bizarre and slightly complicated.
I got lapped by Nick.
But the other racer was maybe half a lap ahead of me. So technically in between us.
So Nick got round to me and saw out the remaining laps with him. But the other rider didn’t get to me.
So Nick 1 lap ahead.
Rider 2, say half a lap ahead.
Then me lapped but Nick.
No idea if that makes sense but maybe that probably best way I can explain
@@michaelgraycycling The only way you could've done something wrong, if you sucked Nick's wheel for a few laps to catch second place if Nick managed to catch and lap the second place guy. Perhaps then there would be questions asked, and that's probably still a maybe. But the way it panned out, you got third and you deserved it. Especially the way it all happened. You had to make a jump to catch and pass Nick, and you did your fare share of work out there too.
@@peterlip8 thanks. And yea I agree, if we had caught 2nd place then I’d probably have felt a bit like I shouldn’t have hopped on Nicks wheel AT ALL when he pulled through after I went over the top of him. And I’d like to have think I’d have the sportsmanship to mention that to the commasaires in the scenario for sure.
Fair play on the lad that got 2nd. He completely went under the radar!
I clicked for the drama, stayed for the captivating commentary 😅 very valuable insight into the race and a fascinating watch!
Haha thanks man 🫡🫡🫡 have you watched the next race that follows up from this one? ruclips.net/video/0b3CSmAr9YY/видео.htmlsi=0PQPv3r9vhgBRJFm
Well done on getting Cat 2 mate 👍 great video thanks for posting
@@morgan349 thank you. Has been my main goal for this year. Just a shame a win escaped me this year! Hopefully next year
Great story - you kept me until the end. And Nick you are a beast
Thanks man. And yes he’s a beast!!! Hope you enjoy the other videos on the channel
I know its not a UCI sanctioned crit race but if it is "a lapped rider(s) should not give pace to the rider(s) who have lapped them" - that is the current standing rule. You will be surprised that even large numbers of world tour team riders doesn't even know the rule.
Just uploaded the next race. Hope you enjoy ruclips.net/video/0b3CSmAr9YY/видео.htmlsi=jB6AlpAwEBVwvtro
I am not familiar. So it is the opposite? (a lapped rider getting pace from the rider who have lapped them is ok)
@@guicho271828 as lapped rider you shouldn't get close to the rider who have lapped you. Once you get close, pace or both ways thats automatic DQ. If you are out of top 3 and has been lapped,, marshalls should automatically pulled you out of the race.
Very well done, good on you for keeping your head high !
Thanks 🫡
That was a fascinating insight into cycle racing tactics. I've watched pro races on TV and have a general idea of what's going on but this provides an understanding and analysis that's on another level, well done!
That’s epic to hear that as sometimes even I get confused with what’s happening on tv haha! Have you watched the next race? It’s a lot harder and has weird dynamic with my team mate ruclips.net/video/0b3CSmAr9YY/видео.html
@@michaelgraycycling I'll take a look at the other video ...
Who the hell thinks they can act as Patron of the peloton at Hillingdon!? 😆 Good on you riding your own race.
😆. Thank you mate 🫡
I am 100% in agreement with you, Michael. I've been a devoted cyclist since my teens in the mid to late 1970s, and, since the 1980s, I've watched tens of thousands of hours of cycling of all varieties, primarily road cycling. I not only support your view, I don't even UNDERSTAND the supposed logic of their arguments. If those guys had cared as much about winning during the race as they were AFTER the race, they could have helped you reel Nick in and not get lapped.
Yea is a shame. However when I was with Nick at the end he was truly motoring. It would have been extremely hard to pull him back anyway going at the speed he was travelling at. I’ve just uploaded the next race video. I hope you enjoy it ruclips.net/video/0b3CSmAr9YY/видео.htmlsi=tF4GAKZSuB6Um3nm
hahaha that was very entertaining, I haven't cycled in years but I still watch pro cycling and this year has been one of the best that I remember. I've never seen amateur cycling before but this POV footage is great, good luck for next year.
Glad to hear it. It’s a great view point! Did you check the race out that follows up from this one? Here ya go ruclips.net/video/0b3CSmAr9YY/видео.htmlsi=JjZNxPWA6alAMEU5
I am an old man now, but I raced in the late 70s & 80s. There has NEVER been anything wrong with what you did, and indeed... everything right. Things never change. There are always people who are whingey little zits who don't understand what it means to compete. Ignore the silly bastards. And congratulations!
__NOTE__ that people dislike for making the podium just let's you know that you're doing something right.
Thank you very much :) what was racing like back then? Here is the next race video ruclips.net/video/0b3CSmAr9YY/видео.htmlsi=jB6AlpAwEBVwvtro hope you enjoy
Only just come across your channel, Michael and despite having never raced before (and at 43, having no intention of racing in the future! 🤣), I found this fascinating and really interesting to watch. Great video and an awesome insight in to the tactics and your thought processes.
Sounds like sour grapes from the other racers to me though, and you thoroughly deserved your podium place. Loved that your folks were there cheering you on, too. Hope to be doing the same for my boy in a good few years.
Congrats on the Cat 2 level up too. 👌🏼
For what it is worth, I started racing at age 53. Only achieved cat 4 (one up from cat 5), and got lapped lots of times. But it was fun and extremely hard work.
@@lorenwillis425 Fair play. Maybe I'm ruling myself out too soon then, Loren. Friends do keep bugging me to join a few Zwift races, so maybe I should give it a go, as watching this video did make it look fun.
@@petertreadway much appreciated and I’m glad you enjoyed it! Never to late to start racing! 😄 and yeah it’s great they’re there. Even though I’m not a child any more and am in my mid 30s it’s funny how they still want to watch me compete in things 😄 Hope to be doing the same with my kids into their adult life also.
How old is your lad,m? Does he cycle much?
I’d love to get my kids into it, but they show no interest currently and I don’t want to force it on them and they end up hating it. I’m just waiting for them to find it 😆
@@lorenwillis425 well done. It’s great fun! Where are you from
@@petertreadway zwift races is what exactly started me off! In fact from the very first winter of me starting cycling. Check this video and you’ll see me when I started and my zwift races
I Tried Cycling For 1,574 Days, this is what happened
ruclips.net/video/9LOPZk5U4Uw/видео.html
Nice video Michael and congrats with the 3th (2nd?) place! Though in (club)races in the Netherlands (where I race) this is considered illegal. When a person/group laps another group they are not allowed to follow/drag. But the rules should be explained before the race, so it's clear to everyone what's allowed and what is not.
@@dannytennisser thank you! 😄
This isn’t the case in the uk however it seems your country and couple of others have different rule.
But also when I attacked I went straight over the top of Nick with no intention of using him however I couldn’t have helped him getting onto my wheel and then pulling through. And you can see 1 lap after the attack at 18:21 that my focus is just on keeping going full gas to get to the line as quick as I can regardless of him being there or not. Would that still have been the case in the Netherlands with me doing that?
Fantastic race, how you can keep your heart rate above 180 for the whole race is crazy! When I get over 170, I start getting tunnel vision, even when I was 28 and running 3 hour marathons!
Everyone’s heart rate is individual and unique to them. That heart rate for you is probably the equivalent of above 180 odd for me. My threshold is 177
Absolutely amazing race mate. Love your content! Deserve a sub!
Thank you. I hope you enjoy the channel. Thanks for the sub!
Good win mate, there’s nothing wrong with using the rider in front as your wind deflector. Strategy always wins! Congrats mate!
Thank you ✌️✌️
Brilliantly conducted 👍🏽 Reminded me of when I went from Cat 3 to Cat 2 many decades ago... Bravo!
Wondering how you inserted your in motion ride data into this video also?
@@landsurfingpro3370 brilliant, how did it happen?
@@landsurfingpro3370 i use telemetry overlay 🫡
@@michaelgraycycling is that a feature of your bike computer? How does one access it and import it into a recorded video from a GoPro or iPhone or ?
Is telemetry overlay an app?
I think it's really nice for Nick to finally get on someone's wheel, too. Even if you're somehow taking advantage of him, you're giving it right back to him
His legs must have been hurting!
Hello from the US. Nick is a Beast and sounds like you are also ready for cat 2. There was no problem at all with what you did, the guys in the peloton that got lapped and pissed about what you did are just stupid and not racers. I never liked people who sat up at the front, especially if its not their teammate. So I would always crank the pace back up. I came to race, not do a club ride. Good on you! Keep it up.
Yea man I’m there to race! If they want a certain scenario to play out it’s up to them to physically do it rather than moan and say it verbally post race. Ah well.
Thanks for the kind words. Do you race too?
As long as he was in the same category as you then its legal. No issues. However if he was in B cat and you were in C then it would be illegal to draft off him. Fair play to you... you had the killer instinct and desire...the others were happy to sit in and hope for the best.
Yea that would be cheating then. But no same race 👍 thanks 🫡 hope you enjoy the channel!
Im a mtb'er but even i know when to push, good on you & the commentry was very intense
Thanks. Hope you enjoy the channel. ✌️
Damm nick was a beast 331 watt average vs 195. That really shows how much difference there is riding solo for a long time vs in a group. Congrats on that 3rd place and promotion.
@@Nelthalin thank you. And yea big difference. I imagine his NP would have been similar to his 330. With all my efforts during the race my NP was 241. Still almost 100 watt different
@@michaelgraycycling lol, I mean you can respect the watts but here in NZ it would be considered laughably burglar behaviour to enter a Cat 3 race and avg 33W for 50min.
@@cmathews1 Genuine question, what's the etiquette for someone who has a high FTP like a triathlete or indoor rider but who is new to crit racing? Should they not go off the front even if they could hold 330 watts for an hour?
Great video mate…..Really enjoyed that.
Many thanks 😃 there’s a few more good videos on the channel too 😃
I am puzzled. Who came second?
Yeah. Did Nick get first, and then also second because he passed the finish line twice before the next rider finished?
@@mountainstatebikeworks5578 :D
@@mountainstatebikeworks5578no earlier in the race someone else went who I didn’t notice. Or have footage off.
So Nick lapped me. But the rider who got second didn’t lap me.
Yeah it made no sense, he thought he'd finished the race behind the guy who lapped him - but if you're lapped then you still have a lap to go. So the guy he was drafting was just the guy in 2nd place and, ironically, he let him go over the line in front of him.
@@michaelgraycycling I think I spotted the second place finisher get away.
That 3 man breakaway at the 2:50 mark... They got away, then "Rodney" goes and 4 others hop on his wheel, so 5 are chasing in front of you. So you have the 3 + 5 = that's 8 in front of you. If you squint ahead, it looks like the 3 that were ahead, are now 2, and one of them is a bit further up. Sure enough, when you say it's all back together, you only catch 7 riders not 8, and you can see another single further up the road. Was that who finished second??? Or did you catch him at some point. Still 33k to go at that stage. Possibly he did get away, as there was a bit of stuffing around after that which would allow him to build the gap.
Nice video, great commentary as well, loved it!
@@dar1e thank you. Next race should be up later today or tomorrow. Make sure your subscribed to check it out. Hope you enjoy the channel :)
Hi Michael, I don’t mean to be dense, but can you explain the ending? Nick had lapped you, so when you got to the photo finish, should you have had another lap to go? And I’m still confused why you got third instead of second?
@@photog2903 hey not dense at all. And it’s a common question amongst racers.
We all finish on the same lap as whoever crosses the line first. So if we get lapped. The winner is pretty much already decided. So we will all finish on his last lap. Rather than do a extra lap.
Not sure if you watched the part of me talking to my mum and dad immediately post race, as I was confused too. But my dad told me that a guy in yellow snuck off away also in that part of the video. Someone I had no idea about and that I didn’t have on video, so he must have snuck off somewhere in the race.
I hope that makes sense?
@@michaelgraycycling So the guy in yellow, second, he wasn't lapped so he had to complete the final lap, as the winner had done? But since everyone else was lapped, no-one else completed the scheduled final lap? So what happens if he has a crash and breaks a wheel - he can still carry his broken bike around the track for the next 15 minutes and still get second? And what happens if Nick laps you but then drops back and you cross the finish line before he does - are you still considered 'lapped status' because you were lapped at one point and can then stop? Or are you no longer lapped and therefore have to go around again? I'm sure it makes sense to all you racers but it seems a messy & convoluted way of doing things from an outsiders perspective.
@@chocolate_squiggle 100%. Racing isn’t usually this complicated. So I can feel your pain being a new watcher. Even racers get confused at times when lapping starts happening. However get lapped is fairly uncommon. In fact apperently it was the first time someone has lapped the peloton this year at this circuit.
Anyway….
Yes 2nd place had to finish the final lap. As he was already on it when me and Chris rolled over the finish line.
And damn that is a fantastic question if he crashes 😂 never even thought of that haha but yes he would still get second as everyone else at the point has been withdrawn from the race and positions given - I assume. Amazing question! 🤯
Lapped status - so technically if I rolled over before Nick. No I wouldn’t be lapped as he didn’t finish a lap up on me. HOWEVER as we both got given the bell “final lap” as we both crossed the line with 1 lap to go together. I wouldn’t have had to do a extra lap no.
But yea it’s normally this complicated 😂
@@michaelgraycycling Much appreciated. Best wishes continued racing.
@@chocolate_squiggle thank you. I hope you enjoy the other content in the channel 😃
Such a great video man nice work! I subbed so imma go watch your next vid
Thanks! ✌️ hope you enjoy the channel
Of course you did the right thing! It’s a race, if there’s a wheel you can get on, you get on it. It doesn’t matter how much time that rider is ahead of you, drafting and riding your own race are just called “racing”, not “cheating”. What the other riders complaining were doing is called “whining” and “losing”…! Congrats on moving up to Cat2, time to ramp up the training regimen😎❤
It is indeed, thanks! But first a little bit more chill for the off season before building back up again to next season. Got the final race of the year being uploaded today, hope you enjoy
sorry to change the subject to tech for a second but, what program did you use to overlay the data? I have tried 4 different programs today and can't seem to to get it to work. Thanks for your time. 👍
@@ratcheesemanify what programs have you tried? I use telemetry overlay 👍
Congratulations on getting your Cat 2 license for next year Michael!! 💪🏼💪🏼👌🏻
Thank you appreciate it ✌️
nice video! I find it amazing with these power outputs and speeds, there are so many racers not in the drops or aero position. I guess they have too much power to spare.
😂 yea maybe! Definitely pays dividends to be more aero.
Nought wrong with your tactics in my book. Well done dude😊 👍👏🏼
Cheers ✌️ hope you enjoy the other videos on the channel :)
for me the crazy part of all this racing is you have to think so much. I wouldnt be able to think of strategy at constant 180/190bpm that's for sure. So insane how you were also able to launch attack on attack. Congrats on making it. Interesting that their bad "decision" on strategy is blamed as cheating.
Thanks! Wierdly if I’m indoors training, I can’t watch anything when my heart rate is high. I just can’t concentrate. But I guess a race is different! :)
Solid effort! I saw nothing illegal. My heart would have absolutely exploded at 195bpm.
😆 I know the feeling. The next race in about to post up is a all time highest heart rate for 1 hour
Sore losers Michael! Excellent video - congratulations on your promotion to cat 2!
@@LeeWright thanks mate! Been a fun, and frustrating journey to get here. Here’s to a whole world of pain for me next year 🍻 🥴🤣
Not cheating good strong race agreed with all you said. Interesting to see sometimes after a race people say and do things they wouldn’t normally. Maybe fatigue and frustration all in one 🤷♂️ P.s the like isn’t for dodgy cornering 🤪
@@leewood4825 yea probably just that post race frustration, we’ve all been there. I’d have just kept it to myself and accept its my own problem. And thanks, I thought I was going into the clubhouse for a second 😂
I've never raced a Road race, although you've explained what they were moaning about I struggle to understand why? A race is a race. No "in race" decisions by the peloton can influence the outcome. That's BS of the highest. Rules are rules. Don't worry about it.
Thank you 😊 have you checked out the next race? You can find it here. Hope you enjoy the channel :) ruclips.net/video/0b3CSmAr9YY/видео.htmlsi=BZ5_HwlAmpJxyyON
Hey I like the data overlay. What software are you using for it? I've been using Virb for years but it's a dead product and every day it still works is a surprise. Need to move to something else. So what are you using here? Thanks
Thank you. I’m using a software called telemetry overlay
The lads saying let nick go before the finish I bet all wanted a sprint. Fair play you put it out there and won.
Yea they did. The stupid thing was, all they had to do was continue to sit on his wheel in the first place, hold their good positions and just continue to let him lead them out. Think they got angry with their own stupidity
@@michaelgraycycling either way nick is winning 🤣
@@JamesDownes yea! Beast!
Don't stress over it Michael. Its a chipper in the grand scheme of things. You performed well and looked like you were enjoying yourself which is what is should be about.
@@michaelcripps131 thanks Mike! Missed not bumping into you at races this year!
When I started racing, I was taught that if you get lapped you don't do anything with the riders who've lapped you. No drafting or pulling, just let them go by. This is both for road racing and crits. I don't know if there is a specific rule about it or not, at least in America, but it is common courtesy. If it's not against the rules, what ever, you did nothing wrong.
Update: this is from the USAC rule book, not applicable to you but in America it is against the rules
For road races
3C3. A lapped rider or one who has fallen too far behind and is considered to be out of contention may be called off the course by the Chief Referee. Riders on different laps may not give or receive pace from one another. A lapped rider must not interfere in any prime sprint or finishing sprint and must ride sufficient laps at the end so as to cover the entire distance in order to qualify for a prize, unless excused by the Chief Referee from covering the full distance.
For crits
3D4. Riders who have lost contact with the field, and are then caught by a breakaway from the field, may not lead. Riders off the front of the field may not accept assistance from riders who have lost contact with the back of the field. Lapped riders may rejoin and race with the field in cases where lapped riders are not being withdrawn by the officials.
Interesting. I guess though I wasn’t off the back of the field at all. So I don’t think 3D4 would be applicable anyway. As I wasn’t a dropped rider from the field.
3C3 of a RR though sounds different in terms of pacing one another. This race is was 45 minutes + 3 laps. So not distance based
@@michaelgraycycling Fantastic commentary and video, but perhaps chat with your local mates to agree on race etiquette, it is kind of a grey area. Your group let Nick go away before you attacked your way back up, which is not as clear an issue as if you jumped on and he towed you away. But like comeridewithmeAE, our local American culture frowns on mixing.
The only time I ever lapped the field we just rode past the peloton and they didn't interact. The reason is we were a group of four, so the podium was still undecided, and any other riders mixing with us would have potentially changed the results of our sprint and finish order. Likewise, although you didn't know it at the time, there was another rider lapping, and if he was close and trying to catch Nick, he might have a legitimate objection to your sharing pulls with Nick. If you were teammates with Nick, it would clearly be unfair to intentionally help him stay ahead of the 2nd place rider, under our rulebook. If yours is silent on mixing with lapped riders than tactics like dropping back to help a rider finish lapping would be acceptable.
But there is only so much road, and it is difficult to avoid some appearance of drafting if you are both trying to stay away from your respective chasers, so it is kind of a fine line between a technical foul and sour grapes protest.
100% you did the right thing. A sprint for 2nd or 3rd place is a recipe for a stupid crash at that level so nothing wrong with you choosing to avoid the sprint. Not your fault that the others chose not to follow Mr Beastmode through who could have just sat at the back of the peloton but was obviously trying to set a PB time or something.
@@maniamuse1319 thanks. He went to the front for safety he said. Didn’t want the risk of anyone falling in front of him and it ruining his race! Fair play!
forget all the stuff, my goodness, the real star of this video is when you see who nick is on the podium. Was expecting ripped young dude but my god... fair play.
@@wretchedworm haha yea just a power house
Ha - a 45 year old, past his prime, Dad who is desperately trying to fight off the effects of ageing, trains hard and tries to maximise the (limited) natural abilities I was born with.
@@verkxfnn That was you? Well, if so: limited? Those are some pretty wild numbers for a 45-year-old amateur. If you've got kids, get'm into cycling.
@@wretchedworm thanks, unfortunately, my son prefers Fortnite to Zwift, but working on it 😂.
@@verkxfnn Nick “has entered the chat”. Super glad you’ve got this video for the memories! I hope I keep progressing so that when I’m 45 i am strong as you 🫡 when the bloody hell was your prime though!?
Solid racing chap, congrats on making cat 2 🎉
@@timdgoodwin thanks Tim! I remember you telling me about the stupid amount of money you’d spend on bike items when we was in Marbella. And I’d think you was mental. Now I’m that exact person 😂
@@michaelgraycycling don't worry, I'm still spending stupid amounts of money on bikes too 🤣
What bike do you have right now?
@@michaelgraycycling mountain bikes only at the moment... A custom built Geometron G1 and Trek Rail 9.8 XT
Although now I've moved house I'm looking at road/gravel bikes again... fancy a steel framed Fairlight Strael or their gravel bike
Where have you moved to? Well if you get a road bike hopefully we can get on a ride one day
Everyone entering a race should be clear on what the rules are, and that is one of those rules that should be very clear in the rulebook. If it is not clear, it should be inquired of, or if not stated, then it can't be held against the rider. You could simply ask, "Where does it say I can't do that".
@@deanwilkendorf5304 exactly. And considering they was holding his wheel the laps prior. They answered their question with their own actions prior.
Welcome to Cat 2. Now the real fun begins racing against P,1, and 2's. We don't complain about who got lapped as long as they are not in the way of the field. Now you will see how spicy it can get.
Done a couple before and yes it’s super spicy. Hopefully post up the next video of it today :)
You did nothing wrong. I've been in only 2 criteriums (mtn biker - now old codger) - but it is not incumbent upon the slower riders to "stay with the lapped riders". Great video - I love the commentary because it gives a feel for what goes on (you don't know who is who, what is happening, etc.).
Thanks. I’m glad you enjoyed it. Just uploaded the next one ruclips.net/video/0b3CSmAr9YY/видео.htmlsi=jB6AlpAwEBVwvtro
Great video. What do you use for the stats overlay on your video?
I use this goprotelemetryextractor.com
This can only happen on a circuit. Straighten out the course and no more issues! Well played
@@Kid_Ellipsis yea one of them things. In fact after the race the organiser said that’s not happened there this year yet. So amazing effort from Nick
since Ive been a sportman and also a gentleman in sports for all my life, I would say that when you sit behind someone who lapped you, you are cheating.
- it doesnt matter if "they did it" - to justify your own actions, its cheating, if the rules for a race like that states that you cant sit behind someone who lapped you.
yet I dont know the rules to a race like this.
but the sports Ive been doing, ( kayaking ) - you are not allowed to hang on faster boats classes than your own "group"
- imagen me in a kayak k1 ( single man boat ) being pulled by 2x kayak k2 ( two man boats ) and I just surfe the waves behind them all the way... not allowed !
@@dkphantomdk turns out it wasn’t cheating. Whether you see it as justifying in the video is for your opinion, it’s me stating that they was quite happy when they did the very same thing they wasn’t happy with me doing. Having to justify shouldn’t really be something I should be having to do on this occasion because it wasn’t cheating.
He also isn’t in a faster class than me. He’s in the exact same race. So I’m not hanging on and using someone from a different race. Which also means it isn’t cheating.
The result was it WASN’T cheating at all. The only people unsportsmanlike like and un gentleman like were the bad sportsman who were ungracious in defeat. If no rules are broken you shouldn’t act in that way. A “nice work, fair play, I should’ve attacked when you attacked” is how they should have responded. Vs throwing the toys out the pram.
@@michaelgraycycling like I said, I dont know the rules of the race, but if no rules are broken then its fair game and no cheating is detected !
- unless there is a unified gentlemens agreement in the peleton to not "do that".. but if there wasnt, then .. again, fair game, fair victory.
noone should restrain them self in sports just because other people think "you should" !
Sick mate earned my sub what glasses are those?
Congratulations on moving up! You did what you had to do, and it was a smart move.
I remember one race where we lapped a group of 4-6 riders at the beginning of the final lap. I was at the front of the peloton and unobtrusively weaseled my way through the lapped riders, calmly rolled out a gap on the other side, and pulled ahead to win solo. My teammates noticed it but the rest of the peloton didn't. After crossing the line, I went back to admire the sprint for 2nd (which they thought was 1st). I was hopeless at sprinting.
The day I "graduated" from cat 2 to cat 1 was memorable, one of those rare days when one can do no wrong. A cat1/2 race, I broke away at the start of lap 2 with a cat 1 guy, built a 1:15 lead, halfway through he wore out, fortunately a chase group of 5 caught of us, better yet including my mentor (who was fresh because he sat in given I was ahead). My mentor and I gradually whittled it down to 3, took turns attacking the 3rd guy, dropped him, then finished 1-2 (my mentor 1st of course). I got two gigantic trophies (2nd overall and 1st cat 2) and kisses from two Mexican-American beauty queens in traditional attire (the event was in LA, celebrating some Mexican holiday). Back to earth with a thud when I got home and my housemate exclaimed "YOU won THOSE???" In a week or so I was elevated to cat 1.
@@paulflory3532 that is a sweet move to pull i in that first race you mentioned. Nice work!
And that sounds like a brilliant memorable day getting your cat 1 🔥 that’s what it la all about. Making memories and having a great time.
I hope you enjoy the channel and give some more cool stories in the comments!
@@michaelgraycycling Neglected to mention that this gave me a real appreciation for the trophy girl thing. For a guy, exhausted after a tough race, there’s something wonderful about an attractive female stranger giving you a kiss as you stand on the podium. No idea if the same would be true if the situation were reversed after a women’s race. I do realize times have changed.
Well it’s a bit like in boxing. They no longer have ring girls.
all the cheating/not cheating discussion seems pointless to me, and an unimportant nuance. But that video has explained better group riding dynamics than all of the biking videos I've seen before.I don't do racing so the motiviation of people pulling the group (or not) was always a mystery to me.
Thanks glad you learned something 😀 new race video coming out over the next day or so
Great race and commentary man. Have you checked out Fresh Crits (Aussie guy)? I want to get into crit racing and Fresh Crits has been getting my psyched. This was a fun clip to watch!
Ah cool. I haven’t but funnily enough I’ve just watched a clip of his from the Amy’s grand fondo on Chris Miller Cycling. So I’ll have to check out his channel. Where are you from?
@@michaelgraycycling Darwin. Australia. Hot and Humid AF. Just on a year anniversary into cycling.
Ah brilliant. Sounds like you’re loving it if you’re looking at crits! This is my journey > ruclips.net/video/9LOPZk5U4Uw/видео.htmlsi=_ssGFB945U4y6t6k
What you did was completely fair. Nothing wrong at all. Can't stand wheel sucking sprinters, who play games and then get mad when someone decides to attack from a long way out. F them! If they didn't like it they should have worked together to pull you back. Instead, all those wheel suckers played games and they lost. 🙂
Exactly. 🫡 do you race much?
@@michaelgraycycling Used to, but not anymore. Good luck with CAT 2 going forward!
interesting one! I actually wouldn't have been sure about this, but good to know it's allowed now! I might double check French rules for myself (I'm based / race there). I know people get crazy angry here if people ever even slightly draft on other groups during a race (we often have two categories racing at the same time, e.g. Cat 2 and 4 will be on the course at the same time - which is mad in itself), and people do get really angry if people even draft for a small amount of time. Great video though! You might enjoy my channel btw ;)
Yea that definitely is not allowed for sure. That applies in the races over here too. A lot of our races have different category races at the same time. The next race I did was a e123 and it’s on at the same time as the cat 4’s. You can check it out here ruclips.net/video/0b3CSmAr9YY/видео.htmlsi=JjZNxPWA6alAMEU5
Are there many crit circuits in France? Not seen any ever pop up on my YT
Did you scratch or bite? No? What about pushing or blocking? None of those either? Did you break any other rule? Commissairs say no? Well, then: congrats to you for your podium! Well done, and well deserved!
In my first race it was a race for second place, too, and some guys agreed on sprinting it out. I didn't get told, so I went quite a bit from the finish and got second place. I didn't do anything wrong, so it was a fair placement. Still, the moaning gets to you. What a shame.
@@matteodiluce9387 exactly and nice work. I didn’t want a sprint either. So I raced to what I know I can do well and that’s go early like you. Even if you did get told, who cares, race your race. They can agree on sprinting it, just because they do doesn’t mean we do 👊
Do you still race? And what a great placing for a first race. Well done.
@@michaelgraycycling Right, it's not a coffee tour, it's a race. 🤷♂😁
Thanks, the first one was a local race, and I was pretty fit from running middle distances before for a few years. It took them just a few seconds too long to respond.
I then fell in love with inline speedskating (same race dynamics with drafting etc.) and realised I was technically a little less terrible at it than most. There are a few videos in my YT account here. Plus I came to realise I was actually a decent sprinter: in a test I put out 1675 Watts on an accurate bike ergometer at 74 kgs. Went on to win quite a few national masters championships in skating, all the while riding the bike for fun and enjoying it. I quit skating, and started racing in a velomobile and on recumbent bikes. It's fascinating (167 kilometres in three hours 🥳feels awesome!). I'm planning on doing a few bike races locally next year and participating in the recumbent world championships.
That's thirty years in five sentences for you. 🤓
Keep up the great work -- on the bike as well as with the videos. It's always a pleasure to watch.
Wow that cool. I actually haven’t really watched inline speed skating so I’ll head to your channel and give it a nose. They actually do speed skating in this course, so I’ll have a nose at your channel. Jeeze that’s some sprint! Fair play.
Congrats for your 2 cat, absolutely above board they are just pissed you saw an opportunity and took it.
@@afuel4sport thanks 🫡 first time watcher of the channel?
Awesome, congrats! Do you keep your CAT2 license for good (unless you level up) or what are the minimum requirements to keep it going / can you get dropped back to CAT3?
Great question.
So next year I’ll be cat 2 all year. 2025.
To stay as cat 2 for the following year, 2026, I have to earn a minimum of 25 points. If I don’t then I drop down to cat 3.
The only thing you can’t do, is end up going back to cat 4.
If I want to get cat 1, I’d need to earn 200 points next year. Which I think will be a tough tough ask.
I know people who get to cat 2. Find it so hard, that they make sure they don’t get enough points to remain so they can go back to cat 3 for the following year.
I’m going to make it my goal for next year, to be competitive in e123 and remain cat 2. And realistically aim to win a cat 2/3 race, as I think to win a e123 race will be to hard.
I’m just editinf the next video, which is a e123 that I did the following weekend after this race you’ve just watched. So make sure your subscribed to see how it went down. It was bloody hard! 🤣
@@michaelgraycycling thanks; amazing answer!
Your welcome. Do you race?
18:21 that view right there, that totally says from Star Wars 'we’re going in, we’re going in full throttle'.
well done man, nice race!!!!
Thank you 😄 have you checked out the next one? Was a killer and a lot harder!
ruclips.net/video/0b3CSmAr9YY/видео.html
For those that disagree with you and the official they should read the rulebook. Like some else said as long as you do not impede the lead guy you are fine. I had the same thing happen to me in a crit and the official pulled me out to the break but later apologized later when we looked at the rulebook and saw I was the right.
Oh wow that’s ridiculous, it common sense anyway to me. Where was that? Uk race?
nice job on the race and the upgrade.
@@kevinw1611 much appreciated 🫡 hope you enjoy the channel 😃
I don't understand, who's second then ? Someone you lost track of during the race ?
@@furrane yea! Someone snuck off earlier in the race and I didn’t realise. Went completely under my radar! It happens.
You pulled a Remco. Nice.
@@allanwarsing I’ll take that!
Poor losers are everywhere.
I remember when my son competed in a Boy Scout Pinewood Derby tournament, the father of one of the other kids created a huge fuss about how his child was robbed of a victory. And there weren't even any prizes, just a photocopied certificate. Disgraceful behaviour at an event designed to promote creativity and sportsmanship!
That’s a shame. Especially when it’s kids. How embarrassing
I remember watching that race, it was cheating
This race or the one Brian is reffering to?
How come you can finish your race at the same time as a rider who lapped you ?
Don't you have one more lap to do to finish the race ?
I'm confused.
Not how racing works..all races are supposed to finish on the winning riders lap, riders who have been lapped have their results denoted w a minus and number -1 or -2 in this race. That number is how many laps down when they finished.Riders who are out of contention by rules, depending on race announcement, if race is only recognizing or paying top 6 or 10 deep riders who are lapped should be pulled for this exact reason, lapped riders on the road should not be working with rider who have lapped them . This is becoming a huge sex issue in gravel and mountain bike racing with mass mixed starts w female riders working w male riders from another category of race . Categories should not mix unless race officials say so in advance and referee should have made a ruling about lapped riders before the race, not during or after.. many track races are won by lapping the field and then sitting in until the finish..many cyclocross events have riders finishing multiple laps down because spacing allows officials to keep track..in club racing you pull riders who are toast and may screw up and be in the way of final sprint..
What Randy said 🙂
I'm not a cyclist at all (I'm a runner) but found your video really interesting. I can't believe how sore those losers were. Why is there such a morality when it comes to cycling? this is a race for everyone surely? so you deploy whatever tactics it takes to win as long as it's legal i.e. no drugs or james bond style dropping nails on the road or oil slicks etc... Why wasn't nick chastised for winning?
Exactly. But mental! They were busy just waiting for the sprint. And clearly all had the “I should have done that” emotion after the race. First cycling race you’ve watched?
2:15 wow, that man broke a chain.
@@lexington476 ah wow I didn’t even notice that bit. I remember it in the race though! Good spot!
@@michaelgraycycling just by chance I saw it, I just happened to look right when the chain dropped. otherwise I probably would have missed it as well watching the video 🙂.
@@lexington476 yea good spot! I wish I noticed it in the video now. Would have been a good little highlight
Congratulations on your promotion!
I'd like to know what rule they thought you were breaking. I marshal some kids/youth/junior races (my teenage sons race road, track, MTB, BMX and occasionally cross (I wish they would pick a discipline) while I'm just a casual mountain biker). I have heard commissaires say that the lapping rider cannot draft riders they have lapped, and also that riders that have been lapped cannot draft the lapped rider. For the races that I've marshalled it's not normally a problem as the lapped riders get pulled out well before the end, to avoid slower riders getting caught up in the final sprint.
@@Kradlum thank you 😄 is going to be a whole lot harder next year. Not sure if you watched the following race to this, but ah man was a lot lot harder 😂 it’s just here if yiu fancy it
ruclips.net/video/0b3CSmAr9YY/видео.html
Rule break i have no idea what rule they thought it was. I just wanted to crack on and wasn’t really keen on being lapped 😂
After about 30 seconds I almost clicked away because I thought the title had been clickbait however I didn’t and I am glad I didn’t as I really enjoyed this
@@balljacksok glad you stayed for the ride! 🫡 lots more fun videos on this channel 😄
Almost did the same. But I haven't race for years, so it was a blast from the past watching and listening to your thought process too. Great vid Michael.
@@peterlip8 thank you! Lots of other videos on the channel to try and keep your attention haha has given you a slight bit of temptation to maybe race again!?
@@michaelgraycycling Ha. Tempted, but also not. My physiology is a sprinter, but my psychology isn’t. Raced in masters in my early 40’s, and really only did well in the road race season (winter), where the packs had whittled down by the end. The summer crit season I didn’t have the mental push to fight against bigger groups. Gave it away after a few years, mainly because of work/family pressures getting in front of training.
Now at 58, I have more time, and really enjoying just being on the bike, rather than trying to fight for sprinters position in a large pack.
I’m happy to just watch vids like yours. 😊
@@peterlip8 yea a lot of big fields when the sun is out at crits. And that’s fair enough!
Think it's mainly about whether you're getting an advantage or not. When we race at Combe you know we're not allowed to jump onto the back of the E12 group. But there have often been times where we've been snarled up in the final lap because we've caught them back up and are then all sprinting together. I actually lost out on 2pts at Combe because it was deemed I came 5th (because it was a bunch sprint with the E12s as well) when actually I was the 3rd Cat 3 rider to finish. Swings and roundabouts. Win some. Lose some.
Yea this is a slightly different nuance as the e12 race is a different race. This race was a rider from the cat 3 field lapping. So unlike not being able to jump on the back of different race, this racer lapping was in the same race. Also when I attack I’m not looking to use him. I come over the top of him and gets on to my wheel. Like you say swings and roundabouts. How has your year of racing gone? Think I only raced at Combe once or twice this year.
@@michaelgraycycling Oh...to be clear, I think you were well within your rights to do what you did. I would have done the same. Was just saying other riders often get stroppy when they think you've gained an 'advantage' (but mainly because they weren't strong enough to go with you!). My season was good overall. Nabbed a clutch of Cat 3 points and finished 5th in the Latton 10mile TT series, so none too shabby. Now a winter of ZRL racing to look forward to!
@@werdsmyth ah cool. Goal cat 2 next year as well? It’s been a while since I raced on zwift. May have to eye it up to keep having some fun and competition
is that avg power difference between you two just from drafting? i know he was in the wind for a full lap but its such a difference.
He was in the wind for the full race. Where I can suck wheels and coast around a lot in the wheels of the peloton. Especially on that down hill towards the clubhouse. Also other difference would be he’s taller than me. Meaning he’d have to put out more power to carry the same speed as his body is hitting more air.
As someone that isn't a 'pro' but enjoys racing my shadow on my enduro, road and gravel bike. Trying to keep pace with an S-WORKS is something else 😅. On my commute home I've bumped into the SL7 tarmac S-WORKS. I was on my single speed carbon road bike and I had him on the hills, had him in the corner but the moment it came to the straight he was long gone.
Fair enough! I’ve just uploaded the next race video ruclips.net/video/0b3CSmAr9YY/видео.htmlsi=jB6AlpAwEBVwvtro
Dude the "if you feel my frustration click the suscribe button" absolutely worked on me haha
Edit : I don't even race lol
😂 got to get something out of that effort
If I'd be one of them I'd be soo ashamed I'd quit cycling immediately maybe. That's how embarrassing and pathetic it is. "Fremdschamerregend" we would say in germany.
@@PPan-r5f 🤣🤣🤣 I’ve just looked up that word. What a word. Thanks for the comment
Why did you sit up for his photo finish? You still have another lap to go¿
Finish on the same lap of the leader. I had no more laps to go
I would like to ask who the hell though placing an ND filter in front of the road bicycle mounted camera is a good idea?
I feel your pain. Trying to play about with the settings. Can’t help but get annoying camera shake. The standard settings just make the footage seem extremely slow and unrealistic with no motion blur although it gives zero shake.
Maybe will try a faster frame rate and shutter speed next time 👍 either way hope you enjoyed the video
Good on you! Nick is a beast mate.
Total beast.
So happy to only race MTB, without all these tedious tactical considerations.
@@petersilie2432 makes it fun 😄 mtb looks great though, I just don’t think I could fly over the jumps etc!
No cheating at all. If it was said pre race that no one is to sit on a wheel of a rider that is lapping, then yes, but it wasn't. Well done on cat 2.
Thank you very much. I’ve just uploaded the next race. I hope you enjoy. ruclips.net/video/0b3CSmAr9YY/видео.htmlsi=jB6AlpAwEBVwvtro
nice race! can you recommend any shorts with decent padding? i'm a heavier lad (100kg) getting back into zwift racing but cannot seem to find a pair of shorts that will let me sit in the saddle for longer zone two rides without destroying my rear end!
@@Xiacium my main shorts I use day to day are some old rapha ones. Maybe like 2 - 3/4 years old now 🥴 but regardless I always find being indoors more uncomfortable then outside anyway. Sorry not a helpful reply
Assos - expensive but you need only one pair: wash after every ride and they will hang dry overnight. Black Friday sales
@@paulflory3532 might have to check these out. I could do with a new pair myself and never thought of them. They have some nice kit
@@michaelgraycycling @paulflory3532 thanks fellas
Your welcome
How is it cheating if the peloton has no authority in the rules to dictate the pace and speed of another rider. Also, where is the rule that says you can't draft off another rider? Total muppets the lot of them. As for Nick, you called it, he's an absolute beast. For the extra two km/h he burnt an extra 400 Cal over you with an astonishing extra 136 watts Avg Power. That is something to behold.
@@Bodkin_Ye_Pointy exactly. Yes and total beast. I had a lot of coasting the draft of the peloton. My normalised power was 241, still about 90 watts less!
Absolutely fair play! Your only mistake is underestimating that bloke Nick aka Pogi Jr.
I advocate for Cat 3 blood passport 🤣🤣🤣
@@christophercortes1524 yea if only I knew he was! 😂
Makes total sense. Thanks for the explanation!
@@photog2903 you’re welcome. 😀
People would only call that cheating because they didn’t think to do it or didn’t have the capacity to do it. If the leader hasn’t yet finished the race then he’s still in it and you can work with him and sit on his wheel.
Yeap. Do you race a lotV
All the best with your racing. Terrible clickbaiting though on the title graphics and intro.
Thanks for wishing me the best.
People can have their opinion.
Although the intro straight away does ask the question in the 5 seconds
“I need your opinion, was this cheating?”
The thumbnail title graphics has “was this cheating” on it.
Which coincides with the thumbnail of a circle around Nick’s wheel which I’m holding which the other racers thought was cheating.
Not to sure how that is clickbait.
By asking the question was this cheating in the thumbnail and intro. It sounds like you’ve answered the question I was asking in the first sentence of the video with your opinion. Which sounds like you didn’t think it was cheating. But was hoping to watch a video where you think it WAS cheating therefor you deem it as clickbait 🤷♂️
@@michaelgraycycling 1. Thanks for sharing and the comments.good inside for anyone who is not into that sport.2nd. the title is "Cyclist Caught Cheating On His OWN Camera" and in my view that is clickbait, because that is what i clicked for .No Problem for me because this was very interesting to watch even without cheating.another title could have been " how i finally got my cat.2 race license" congrats for taht and good luck with the next races
in CRITS it's never been a thing that you can't race with someone who has lapped you.. however in road races, it is cheating to draft someone who isn't in your category.
Right on. We’re in the same race same category so no problem 👌
By the end of this video my hrm was about 195 and I literally was all wet by sweat😅 good race, and yeah, that Nick is a natural beast. But as long as you compete such guys you are making urself the same beast as they are✊️
@@_zhdanov haha 🤣🤣 and yes totally. Iron sharpens iron! Next race should be up on the channel later
Did you do the e12 directly after this race?
@@ClayDavies unfortunately not I had to shoot off. But I’ve got the race we did at Abingdon the following week to come 🔥