A cycling industry rant
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 26 июл 2024
- It is getting more and more difficult to find the simple bicycle frames and groupsets.
CONTENTS:
00:00 Introduction
00:40 Carbon fiber
02:45 Fork problems
04:57 STIs, discs, and suspension
08:43 More and more gears
10:49 Technical trails
11:44 Cranks design
15:28 Short chainstays
17:34 Threadless stems
18:05 Disc brakes
21:20 Choices?
The damaged frame in the photo was built by Richard Sachs:
richardsachs.com/
Useful LINKS:
Carbon fiber (and other bike materials) explained - the pros and cons:
bike.bikegremlin.com/11144/bi...
Friction Shifters Explained:
• Friction Shifters Expl...
1x drivetrain (groups) pros and cons:
bike.bikegremlin.com/6075/pro...
Unsafe and bad cycling industry patents:
bike.bikegremlin.com/10123/un...
The interesting video by @SethsBikeHacks (Berm Peak):
• Could You Stop? Our Br...
Disc vs rim bicycle brakes - pros and cons:
bike.bikegremlin.com/3871/pro...
The story of the threadless stems (and the cycling industry in general):
bike.bikegremlin.com/17645/cy...
Hookless rims nonsense:
bike.bikegremlin.com/15864/ho...
Tubeless bicycle tyres mess:
bike.bikegremlin.com/15980/tu...
The @SurlyBikes4130 Long Haul Trucker rim brake frame (out of production now):
surlybikes.com/bikes/legacy/l...
Snežana Radojičić ( @Biciklom_oko_sveta ) has been travelling all around the globe for about ten years on a rim-brake Surly Long Haul Trucker frame.
A list of BikeGremlin websites and channels:
www.bikegremlin.com/
List of all the BikeGremlin videos, sorted by categories:
bike.bikegremlin.com/youtube/
Camera: Gox
id: 1225
Support my work by becoming a BikeGremlin RUclips channel member (for $ 5 per month):
/ bikegremlintube
If you prefer, you could also help via a Patreon donation:
/ bikegremlin
#bikegremlin #mostlyharmless 
Хобби
![Finesse2Tymes - Pretty Ricky [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/xIoP_mhYRT0/mqdefault.jpg)
An indexed list of all my videos (with categories, tags, and a search button):
www.bikegremlin.com/youtube/
For any questions, comments, additions, and corrections, I recommend you use the BikeGremlin forum (RUclips is awful with comments and doesn't let you search & find questions and answers later on):
www.bikegremlin.net/
The forum topic about this video:
www.bikegremlin.net/threads/cycling-industry-rant.300/
Patreon support page:
www.patreon.com/bikegremlin
P.S.
It seems like RUclips is losing some of my own replies and comments to this video - bug or a feature (censorship) - who knows.
Forum does work. :)
Relja
@@BikeGremlinUS Censorship for sure.
"Its better, in my opinion, to hit a tree at 20 or 30 kmh than 40 or 50" Never change. You the man!
If I see a Surly long haul trucker I know where to send it. Building up a Disc Trucker for a Friend atm.
I couldn‘t agree more. The problem is that you don‘t have a real choice anymore. If you buy a new bike, disc brakes is pretty much standard these days. Rim brake, if available at all, is limited to low-end bikes. I started out on rim brakes and aluminum frames with external cable routing and really love the simplicity. Fixing and maintaining older bikes is a breeze compared to modern ones. We need to go back to affordable, reliable and simple bikes.
@@Goenzelsen Look at Rivendell if you want a quality bike with rim brakes.
@@Goenzelsen No one wants rim brakes. That’s why they aren’t sold anymore.
You can always opt for cable actuated disc brakes. Best of both worlds.
@@fulgacian Yeah, that’s an option. Would be interesting to test some one day. Are they less prone to rubbing? That‘s what annoys me the most about my hydraulic ones.
@@Goenzelsen They only push one piston, the other being fixed, so you can fairly close to the fixed pad and let a larger gap up to the "movable" one. No rub if done right. I'd go for larger discs sizes, as they are obviously less powerful.
Hats off for your sincerity. You won't get sponsors with this video, but, at least you get my thumb up. Keep up such good work.
Thank you. :)
I highly prefer the independent Patreon supporters - beats answering to any corporation: :)
www.patreon.com/bikegremlin
Relja
9:00 - I LOVE friction shifting. I just move the lever until the gearing feels right and sounds good.
i hate friction shifting but have used it on touring bikes. But I also hate anything over 10 speeds. In my 50 years of riding I have tried it all and have definite tastes. But you have yours as well and it is your bike.
@@tomkunich9401 I've found Microshift gear shifters is the way to go, with friction FD and indexed RD. With those you have friction as a failsafe in the rear if needed.
I 100 % agree with you about the Disk Brake debacle. Trust me. Done 40 years on rim brakes + 10 years on disk brakes all over Europe. Just back from the Alps and i left most riders in the dust during the descend ! Since 2018 i use the same rim brake pads, costing me NOTHING ! Look at what disk brakes cost in maintenance as well… What a mess…
You left them in dust only in your dreams, rim brake pads are not good for any descend.
Practically no maintenance for disc brakes. You're crazy
I agree with almost all your point, in particular regarding steel frames, rim brakes, and getting bikes overly complicated ... even with filled up with electronics. That does not belong onto a bike, except may be for the light or the speedometer.
For me no electronics on the bike, and simplest technology made with good quality materials. As you mentioned, it is unfortunately not even possible anymore to find a good steel frame or good old J-forks. Many would be surprised how smooth and safe such a bike rides.
Right on Bike Gremlin! 90% of the "upgrades" to bike tech since 50 years ago have been more beneficial to the revenues of the bike industry than to the rider's performance, safety, and comfort!
Ritchey makes steel frames that have long chainstays!
and surly!
The only question they are asking to themselves when making bikes and parts is : How can we make more money with these sheeps riding their bike and willing to pay anything?
That's where we are at, they don't care about practicality.
@@nadsim154 agree, same with cars - just introduce finance schemes so people can have vehicles they don’t need and can’t afford and the industry has nailed it. The fads come and go while I’m out riding my bikes 😊
Bravo. Every point you make is spot on. Been riding for 50 years and my 44-year-old steel, long wheel base touring bike is still a dream to ride and service. The bar end friction shifters eliminate so many problems. The indexed shifters on my three other bikes (including full carbon) are OK but often need attention. Indexing has been a step backwards in terms of practicality. Subscribed. 👍
Thanks. :)
A (not very) fun fact:
I love the friction shifters too, though I prefer down-tube shifters for technical trails and manoeuvres - with bar ends I sometimes bump a shifter with a knee, at an awkward moment for (unwanted) shifting. For touring and commuting that's not an issue though.
Relja
@@markandrewtait1974 I have ridden indexing brifters for 15 years and never had a single problem.
@@BikeGremlinUS I've fallen back in love with the friction shifters. Sure it takes an extra moment to shift, but there's something heart warming in the sound they make. Also, micro adjusting the derailure (esp front) is awesome. Though I will admit there is also a satisfaction in the instant snap and click of a properly adjusted index system. I generally error on the index for my mountain bikes where more immediate change is more often required. The road / rail trail bikes where I can lag a few use friction.
More professional mechanics need to be making this type of video!
@@aintnobodygottime4dat you mean less professional mechanichs need to make more professional videos? :)
I think the simplicity and sincerity of his video speak to his point. Sometimes less is more
@@rabbishmuelgoldberg1896 you misunderstood
I’ve got 2010 Shimano 105 rim brakes, got laughed out of my local bike shop when looking for replacement pads.
Find another shop.There are still more rim brake bikes than disc.
There's nothing wrong with Shimano 105 kit. I've got the same. Can't fault it.
Then that's crappy shop. My LBS has almost everything in stock. 7 speed freewheel? No problem. 1'' headset bearings? Sure. Pads are definitely not an issue.
Elitist a$$h0les.
Shimano 105s saved my life at 45 kmph in the rain last week. I appreciate discs as well but absolutely nothing wrong with rim brakes. If your LBS is laughing at you, rest assured that they're laughing at everyone who walks through the door and it's time to find a new LBS.
Agree with you on most everything. I started riding on the road as a kid in the mid 1950's, eventually began racing in the early 1970's. Only once did I even think about better brakes: atop Sonora Pass in the Sierra, facing a switchbacked descent of the east side, littered with gravel, loaded down with full bike packing gear. Rim brakes evolved over the years and got incredibly good (Dura Ace 9200). If I wanted to run tires wider than 28mm yes I'd probably want discs, but I'm perfectly happy with 23-28's.
Had weird problems with my carbon bike occasionally dropping the chain (never had that problem with any of the similar 11 spd bikes I had used). Hard to find a rim frame, so I had a titanium Mosaic made, had the groupset transferred, and have been really happy with it. Not outrageously expensive. Chains don't drop on it, but if they did the seat and down tubes are smaller, so the chain won't jam between the chainring and the frame. It has a carbon fork, at least it's an ENVE.
Rim brake stuff was cheap for a while, so I bought up spare wheels, calipers, levers, fork, etc while I could, many at big discounts.
Thanks for the video, hadn't realized how much the changes have caused headaches for mechanics!
Great video!!!! I agree so much, I am older rider with a carbon bike and disc brakes. I need to bleed my brakes and don’t want to even try. Just ordered a Rivendell with friction, rim brakes and a triple. Those who know will know.
Thank you
"Those who know will know." - Exactly 👏
Bravo! For someone to finally say it, loud and clear. Old school forever!
Hey, I'm with you! I've ridden and repaired bikes since 1972. Bikes are no more fun to ride now than back then. Steel IS real, lasts almost forever unless it is abused. Don't be afraid of building up an old bike, they are everywhere and can be great with just a careful rebuild. Good luck and good riding.
I second that. Why pay $2,000 for a bike from a dealer when you can find a bike for a quarter of that on cragslist?
I love riding bikes now. Indexed gears are great when I really need to work the gears on different terrain. I like hydraulic disc brakes, too.
I like this video more than others that just criticise "13-speed" as "completely useless".
You're absolutely right about this stuff, and it's why my main bike is basically as you describe. An alloy bike, mini-V with Kool-Stop, cables visible, 2x10 105. I'm an amateur mechanic, it performs well, and I can maintenance it with extreme ease. Rides like a dream. I beat all the people pretending on tour de france bikes, anyway.
As for 13-speed... It's obvious compensation for fewer gears in 1x. They do "need" it (if they're married to the idea of one chainring) for their cadence and range. It's not for the "amateurs" anyway, where they're pushing LinkGlide. Obviously still a dumb trend being pushed on the masses, but it's the smallest symptom.
You are clearly preaching to the converted!😀 I’m a 70 year old Australian who has been riding bikes all my life. I also loved new stuff, but it wasn’t a problem because the standards stayed the same. Even when cranks evolved, until recent times, they would still fit into an English threaded bottom bracket shell.
However, in recent years, there has been an explosion of new bike standards. Because of this, I stopped buying new stuff when I got to Shimano 10 speed on a couple of my road bikes and Campag. 11 speed on my ‘besty’! Fortunately I have a friend who owns a bike shop and when people bring their bikes in to upgrade their components, he gives me the stuff that comes off the bikes (usually well looked after) to help maintain my bikes, as you clearly can’t buy anything more than a generation old now. I’m hoping that with a similar philosophy to you,I can keep my bikes going until I pass.
Thanks for the entertaining ‘rant’!
Honestly, I agree 100%. I've been saying the same thing to anyone who would listen for a couple decades, and it's obvious that no one is listening. I was hoping there'd be at least someone in the comments saying "no, actually, carbon is much safer than steel" but it seem like this those people stayed clear of this video. It's just total insanity. Professional cycling should have little to nothing to do with what bikes normal people ride, but people let the industry lead them around by the nose. Every development in the last 30 years has made bikes more fragile and/or expensive and dangerous for the sake of making them lighter. Really it's all about having some new MIC junk to market every year. Anyone can ride the steel bike that won the tour d' France in 1903, but the carbon bikes made in 2004 ago are already dangerously structurally compromised. Total junk culture where everything gets used for a few years and then sent to the landfill.
I try to avoid click-bait titles and thumbnails, so that it's as clear as possible what a video is about (the same goes for my website articles). That way no one's time is wasted. Life is good. :)
Relja
Im 6'4" 190lbs and 43 years old and agree with everything you have said in this video.
Even though I own a fully carbon disc brake bike that weighs 16lbs.
It's a 2 by, and I i have full mechanical shifting and brakes.
I do indeed miss the days of simple friction shifting...
And heavier bikes always seemed to have a more firm plant onto the ground in gravel and anything offroad.
I love electronic shifting. So amazing
I went into one of my two local bike shops looking for a 10 x 135 axel, only to be told we don't sell them because you can't buy them on their own, they come with the wheel as a complete unit. The only thing that was complete was the bollox she was talking, I was trying to support my local shop instead of buying online. The other shop laid on the BS about buying a wheel from them as well, yeah we don't stock them but you'd be better off buying a new wheel because if you put a new axel in, it won't run right see, it will be worn out inside the wheel. I had already checked for wear, the wheel still had a good original tyre and innertube as well. I was flipping bikes 40 years ago back when a road bike was called a racer and you could get any parts local or have them ordered in. Locally, My stockists only stock a small handful of random parts and tons of accessories gadgets and the latest must have's now, why would I want Bluetooth gear change when I still have to press something to do it, I don't need the shave a fraction of a second off my gear change. Old English proverb- If it aint broke, don't fix it.
Axle to suit available from many sources, probably the most commonly available is Wheels Manufacturing for a good quality item.
@@graemefk6519 Yes I saw unlimited amounts of axels online.
Excellent video. Ive got a 25 year old Specialized M2 Stumpjumper I bought brand new...and Im still riding it. Its easy to maintain and I put good components on it, so it has lasted really well. New bikes are far too expensive and prone to failure. Mine has never left me stranded. Maintenance is everything.
I love good practical, common sense advice. Good video. Yes the bicycle industry, like a lot of other industries get us to buy things that are proprietary in nature so you have to by the “next biggest thing” rather than building something that will last.
Zeitgest…
Sizing is the biggest nightmare now for riders like me who are between sizes. Because of the fashion of long reach, slack angles and short stems it leaves very little scope for adjustment without really upsetting the handling. I either go for a larger frame that has a factory 60mm stem and shorten in 20mm , which makes the bike really twitchy or take the size down , have the seat way back on the rails and lengthen the stem to the point where it just feels plain weird. I never had this issue with older longer stem, shorter reach bikes.
Good point, modern mtb geometry really is stem dependent but it's so much safer than retro mtb geo, maybe try playing a bit with rise?
When the bike gets twitchy you can run shorter handlebars too, that gives you less leverage over the bars and slows it down some.
Yep, I had a pedal totally shred a SRAM GXP carbon crank last week. The pedal actually fell off! On inspection the alloy thread insert was completely shredded. The thread has entirely worn smooth and the pedal slid out of the crank!!! Incredible.
I've got a Rim brake Surly Cross check (that I'm very attached to) but have been hankering for a bike with disc brakes, you've just about convinced me to stay with my crosscheck (not to mention the 3x that I was considering changing to 2x)
Thanks for the level headed advice.
I also love my 3x nowdays 🙌🏻
Disc brakes (good ones at least, like Campy and Shimano 12sp) are objectively better in every way. So is electronic shifting.
I’m a 25 year Campy rim mechanical user, btw.
Mechanical disk breaks work great and are so simple to adjust. From 1/4 turn of a screw to easy cable change.
I really like my hydraulic disc brakes but I haven't had to work on them yet.
YOU ARE SOOOO RIGHT EVERYWHERE. Aluminium bike with rimbrakes for me. So right about braking and about bleeding the brakes, and how about changing tubes. So much faster and easy with rimbrakes.
very nice "Kein Bier vor 4" picture on the background. Greetings from germany.
That is our strict policy…
(does the video show the watch numbers?)
instagram.com/p/C8cuW-HN7nV/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
:)
@@BikeGremlinUS🤣👍
I like the old components. Threaded headset. Square taper BB. Frames wherein the seatstays are welded in line with the top tube. People say "Oh but they're heavier:" So what . Unless you're doing climbs up the Pyrennes it does'nt matter. The only technical innovation I like is disc brakes. Also -these ridiculously large cassettes that are featured on MTB's. The 3 ring chain wheel was fine.
I'll disagree. Ive been riding enduro for 7 years, and i ride hard. 10-42 teeth 10 speed with narrow wide ring is great. Ive bent the sram gx shifter so many times, hitting it on rocks etc, and just straightened it out with my hand and kept riding.
Loving the clutch system keeping the chain relatively tight.
It also keeps things simple with less stuff to break/ go wrong.
@@--LZ--- OK . Different strokes for different folks. Strokes -as in pedal strokes.
@@bellavia5 Sorry that's not a counter argument against what I said, and I know I'm correct. But still willing to hear what you have against high range cassettes...
The only downside is when you have 12 gears the chain is narrower and weaker. 11 gear chains have done the job for me. Wouldnt go any bigger though, adds unneeded weight. Same with front shifter and 3 chainrings.
You shouldnt cling to old tech just because it's old, and you shouldnt embrace the new unquestionably as if it's faultless.
Hope that this sums up how we both feel about this.
@@--LZ--- First off -who says I have to provide you with a counter argument let alone a response of any kind?. Second off -where do you get off telling me or anybody else what they should do about their choices of cycling components? Third off -you summed up how YOU feel about this but that's about it. If you're secure in your choices then my initial response should have been sufficient for you . Swell.
Dude, I have 3x drivetrains on three of my bikes! I have 3x7 drivetrains on my old MTBs, and I have a 3x6 on my vintage Cannondale ST500. I have a 2x7 on my old Marukin M420 road bike, though it was originally 2x6. All four of my bikes have rim brakes. My MTBs have index shifters, while the road bikes use downtube shifters. They're not fancy, but THEY WORK! I'm not a fan of the 1x drivetrains, either. 3x7 and 3x8 drivetrains have been around for decades. Why? THEY JUST WORK! Give me a good, solid 3x7 drivetrain, and I'm a happy camper... 😁
I bought a Motobecane super mirage steel 10 speed in 1978, rode it for thousands of miles in many states - road bike miles and maintained it myself until 2021 when the bottom bracket threads stripped and it could not be fixed. The replacement Trek 18 speed has Verve 1 which was the only bike avaialavle during covid is disappointing. the Squashed frame means I have to have the seat raised beyond the height limit and the shimano shifter made out of composite broke,sheared off. The reduces wight of aluminum is over rated. Steel was reliablly strong. I agree. The bicycle industry has focused on exotic stuff that is bad engineering.. Sad.
It's good to hear I'm not the only one.
I'm riding a steel road bike with rim brakes and Alu rims, and am quite scared that they'll stop making parts for it.
I wasn't expecting anyone to care about this topic (much less to share a similar view) - just needed to get it off my chest.
The video's comment section is a surprise (and a pleasant one at that). :)
Relja
@@BikeGremlinUS But 1 thing to add, just my speculation, is that everything comes from the high end and trickles down to the mid range and entry level.
I have a low profile Alu rim. Road riders prefer high profile, because it's aero. But if it's an Alu high profile, it's gonna be really heavy. So they make it out of carbon. But putting a rim brake on a carbon rim is tricky. So they convert to disc brake. And if you want to be able to sell different bikes at different price ranges built on the same frame, you'll have to put disc brakes even on the entry level one, because you have a disc brake frame.
There is sense behind it, but at some point, the needs of a Tour de France racer completely diverge from the needs of an every day rider such as ourselves.
@@hkszerlahdgshezraj5219 I would argue that Tour de France rider needs are put behind the sponsor/sales/profits.
Fitness (climbing) wins the races. And aero. But the disc brakes and similar stuff are just put to sell them ("it's what the pros use, so it must be the best").
At least that's how I see it.
Have you seen the video where Froome complains about the brakes: :)
bike.bikegremlin.com/3871/pros-and-cons-od-bicycle-disc-brakes-compared-to-rim-brakes/#4
The opinions video is very much appreciated, because at least some of the questions have already been on my mind. One of the things which I dislike is the move towards making parts proprietary and exclusive - for example, tube shapes that are not round cylindrical.
Yup. On a downtube, it "only" prevents me from mounting down-tube shifters - but when it's an oval seat-tube, then you need proprietary seat-posts. It sucks.
Relja
@@BikeGremlinUS You mean like the Giant D-fuse seatpost ! Combining stems and handlebars into one piece is an even worse trend 😞
Yeah I we get that more and more in shop. Proprietary Stems, even Handelbars that inculde the Stem, Batteries built in the Frame. Its just greed, nothing more.
In today's world of spin and false information it's so refreshing to find an honest view on cycling products,,, triple crank is brilliant and simple,,,we are brainwashed into believing that we must have lighter equipment but it's total nonsense,,, cycling should be about enjoyment,,this is the only channel cyclists should be watching,, well done sir,,
1. Don't try to reinvent the wheel
2. Focus on the bacon NOT the sizzle!
2 mottos I live by in my daily life and what I wish the cycling world could understand. There are some advancements that do make sense & are more practical & safer while some are a straight up fad, the good news is fads come and go this is why it's important to do your research and at the end of the day a bicycle should meet what your needs are not what someone tells you to ride.
Am novice when it comes to choosing a bike. My idea of a bike thats good enough is trip to Walmart. Where i got the Ozark Trail gravel bike for $268 (including tax). Ive been enyoing it so far. Am just looking to have fun. The bike industry has forgotten that part and has made everything convoluted. Just like any other industry. Look at any piece of hardware, its getting so specilized its easier to throw it away and buy new one. And they'll plant a tree in Amazon and call themself carbon neutral.
Pozdrav iz Bostona,
Your next bike should be a used simple older steel one. You can thank me later.
All the best. 👍
Hello! The first thing i would do is (because this is a carbon fork and steer tube) to switch back the stem from the negative to a positive angle and take off one or two spacers from the steer column, therefor the height of the bars would remain the same and it would be a more solid build. The extra spacers you place them back on top of the stem!
Agree 100%. As someone who uses a bike for shopping and local journeys, i prefer reliability over weight/speed.
I find the latest bikes are more flimsy.
I have seen carbon frame crack without the carbon wheels even sustaining any damage, or without even being knocked out of true. It is also impossible to know if someone has over tightened parts without using a torque wrench. I.e I would not buy a used carbon frame or bike without knowing the owner and how they treated the bike. And buying used, you generally loose the lifetime frame warranty if it came with one, so you better get it cheap.
Carbon fibre, except for a few very specific use cases, is a terrible material. It is bad for bikes and the aircraft industry will find out to their cost that it's bad for planes. Steel is hugely underrated, but marketing loves carbon fibre.
All the best.
I saw a plate of fiber material (forgot whether it was carbon or not) that got hit on one side for a test. On the impact side a small dent, on the other side completely cracked.
What a fantastic video. I always double my knowledge of bikes when I watch The Bike Gremlin. I'm gonna watch it again to pick up the more subtle points.
Thanks. :)
I tried to keep it civil, but I was genuinely frustrated and we recorded this spontaneously (the original plan was to just record the cranks overhaul). :)
Relja
This is the first time I've discovered your videos, excellent rant! Your pov reminds me of another excellent site, The Path Less Pedaled.
BTW, you convinced me to keep my Surly LHT with the rim brakes and 3-by chain rings! Thanks!
Good choice. :)
A famous cyclo-tourer from my country (Snežana Radojičić) went around the entire globe on such frame (the rim brake version). She's still rolling on it.
I'd say it's quite a good frame - worth keeping. :)
Relja
I agree with you, it's unnecessary to save few grams, or even kilos in favor to simplicity. One of youtube bike shop owner said, bike I ride is worry free. He ride steel Rithey Road logic, rim brake version. Cheers
Neglected to say that bicycling shouldn't be a one size fits all endeavor. Smart manufacturers should offer choices (e.g. some models with rim brakes) so that riders could use what works for their needs. I bet they would make more money that way. I bought a couple of bikes with disc brakes, couldn't find any advantage over my rim brake bikes for road use, found I just didn't enjoy gravel as much as road, so got rid of them.
One plus of the current discs-only situation is that it saves me time: I don't bother looking at new models (either at the bike shop or online) as I have zero interest in them. And saves money because no temptation to buy a new bike!
This reminds me of the car mechanic rants that discuss various advancements in technology and how they are terrible. These rants always fail to consider the massive benefits of the new technology. Fuel injection, variable valve timing and lift. It's complicated but look at what a 3.0L engine's specific power output is compared to early fuel injection or carburetor units. Night and day. Great power and low fuel consumption.
I would argue that modern cars are built to not last forever, deliberately (as a side-note - a friend runs lorry maintenance workshop and shares the many "joys" of modern "improvements" - though not all are bad, of course).
Though this video is about the cycling industry, and I've explained how and why I think the modern stuff is not so great for many use cases.
Relja
Agree with everything except Hydraulic disc brakes and 1X. With cable actuated brakes you always have to adjust them as the pads wear. and with hydraulic disc brakes you just set it and forget it until they become squishy, and you have to bleed them. I've been successful bleeding them without putting the bike in different angles like you describe and it gave me a chuckle. As for 1X drivetrains, I switched to 1X drivetrains in 2017 and never looked back. I just easier to use and maintain, you shift with one shifter and adjust one derailleur. With the right cassette and chainring setup you can have enough gearing. The only downside of a 1X drivetrain is the gaps cyclists complain about them not finding the right cadence to ride at a certain speed, you eighter end up grinding harder or spinning faster than normal or just go slower.
Thanks for the rant. I was considering a new bike , but will probably upgrade my vintage touring bike I bought used that has very little miles on it. New tires, and better cables and better brake levers etc .. I heard how much better supposedly hydro brakes are , but I always suspected on a touring bike the disc can get bent, dirty, pads contaminated and probably not as good as the old school canteliver brakes properly adjust with new pads and high quality cables, levers.
I agree with most of what you said there. Thanks :) I have a carbon fork just like the bike in the video and I don't see the benefit of it at all. I just worry it will break on me one day.
Carbon is strong in pure tension but the front fork is mainly subjected to compression so I guess it's only the resin matrix taking all of the load and the carbon itself is not doing much.
As spoken from my heart 😊 Especially the discussion about the brakes!
The problem is more that there is very little industry difference now between the racing and the utilitarian/recreational use of bikes.
I race, and I fully accept the drawbacks and fragility of my lightweight, complicated, expensive carbon go-fast bike and components. The bike is made to go as fast as possible for a relatively brief period of time and the parts and perishables are expendable. I accept this as part of the sport.
The trouble is that the bike industry thinks they are being helpful by tricking down this race theory into the bikes required by 95% of the riding public. The non-competitive rider has absolutely no use for performance-based bike builds, yet they are forced to inherit them and the problems that they didn’t ask for when only wanting to ride for fun.
Totally agree! I’ve a full suspended mountain bike with 1x and disc brake for really technical or muddy trails and wouldn’t want theses features on any other bikes. Rim brakes are powerful light and easy to maintain. Triples gives you plenty of range. The only drawback is that I can’t find any triples with short crank arms for reasonable price 😢.
origin 8 makes great short square taper triple crank arms!
Internally routed cables and hoses can be added to your list. Now cables and hoses are also routed through the headset. So needlessly complicated...
Excellent video. I ride old steel bikes, and I’m glad I’m not enticed by most of the technology. I do like integrated brake levers/shifters (brifters) but maybe I should go back to bar-end shifters for reliability. I’m not interested in disc brakes or silly crank designs. I love your Trek, and it’s extremely sensible.
Although I have a pretty new bike with almost many of the marketed items you’re talking about, I basically agree with all what you said. What I do enjoy with disc brakes more is the chance to use much wider rims and tyres. The bike overall is a fair bit more comfortable, other than that I still think my 20 year old rim brake bike is great
I have 223 Trickstuff rotors, got the half off retail second hand so grabbed them, I wanted to try regular rotors, as floating rotors can creak after some years, long before the braking surface is worn out. And I hate creaks on my bikes. No matter size it seems like I will bend them a bit. Of course sticky pistons will make it worse. So remember to lube the pistons. Things come in contact with the rotor, pistons might need re-lubing. bike might fall down, someone might hit the rotor. Stuff happens.
Absolutely spot on I’ve probably saved 000’s by buying ‘Old’ rim brake bikes and wheelsets instead of moving over to disc brake
I had a race face carbon fibre spider “explode” at 5mph going over a small mound. It threw me over the bars onto my back. The worst component is sram force CX1 hydraulic brake/ shifter lever. The carbon shell leads to endless issues with leakage, thread shredding and other failures.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experience!
As a new cyclist it's invaluable to hear different perspectives in order to come to my own conclusions.
Поздрав од Скопје!
Agree with you. My riding is for exercise, mostly bike paths and quiet streets. I refurbished a ‘93 Univega Via DeOro hybrid and switched to friction shifters. Is it the fastest bike? No, but at 65 I am not fast any more either. I will take simple and reliable that I can work on any day.
Last good thing in the cycling industry was threadless headset. Lol! No truer words have ever been spoken!! Great video!
Thanks. :)
The story of how that patent was invented is an interesting one:
bike.bikegremlin.com/17645/cycling-industry-nonsense/#1
Relja
@@BikeGremlinUS That was Aheadset's design, correct?? Might make for a good video??
12:45 have to disagree on this one. Crank is thinner because there is lower torque due to shorter lever arm when the crank is vertical. In this case lever arm is ~8cm (distance from crank to middle of the pedal). On the other hand when crank is horzontal the lever arm is ~17cm which means it needs to withstand double amount of torque. So rectangular cross section does make sense
Well spoken. Very honest and educational. Thank u
Your crank thoughts are right, the best shape to resist both torsion and bending is a round tube. Most BMX cranks are tubular.
yeah but they all weigh a to!!! And they are also expensive if you're looking into a BMX BB that would fit your MTB BB shell. I mean yeah, if you're just looking to ride around, you can try and make your bike weigh like 25 kg...it's fine...but if you're racing, that would be impractical.
Now, as for the price and for replacement costs, it's not you who is paying...cyclists knows what are the pros and cons of modern bikes. So the designs are fine. If you prefer to stay stone age, that's your choice. There's really no need to bash the industry.
Bicycling tech in the last ~30 years:
Good:
-Freehubs replacing freewheels
-Better and more reliable internal hubs
Ok:
-Threadless stems (ugly but theoretically has advantages)
-Indexed shifting/Brifters (less reliable but worth it for non-touring bikes)
-Training tech like bike computers, power meters, strava and zwift
Bad:
-Less spokes in wheels
-Disc brakes
-Electronic shifters
-Clippy Shoes
-Spandex with loud advertisement graphics
-Aluminum frames (marginal weight savings, harsh ride, more prone to catastrophic failure without warning)
Ugly:
-Carbon frames/forks/bars (Disposable product unsuited for anything other than competitive racing. Fragile and dangerous.)
-General flow and intrusion of competitive racing tech into recreational sport bicycles
I even sold a modern Di2 disc brake bike because of rubbing and slow shifting. I continue to ride a 10 year old rim brake bike and it's bliss. Ride feel is the same.
Spot with your points. Thus my affection for Surly (simple but very adaptable steel frames), Shimano Cues and TRP HY/RD cable operated hydraulic disc brakes. Simple and reliable is out there it just needs some digging around to find.
I agree with a lot of what you’re saying. I have, however, modernized my older mountain bikes with dropper posts and absolutely love them, as I can hit jumps and drops more safely. I’ve also gone deore 1x10 for mtb, (now discontinued but I bought spares). 1x10 is the sweet spot for chain longevity and accurate shifting for mtb IMO. My road/practical bike is aluminum, 2x 8 with rim brakes which all work great. If it ain’t broke…
I still drive my flinstone bicycle with square wheels. I dont have to worry about any of this stuff. I dont even need a Kickstart.
The T-Rex ribcage frame, or the crappy modern saber-tooth boned one?
As a former bike mechanic, my bikes are easy to use and fix.
Generic tech is the way to go!
Thank you for this video😅
I wholeheartedly agree with everything you have said, apart from being old. 🤔
If I were to buy a 'new' bike, it would be from the 80 to the 90's.
I started mountain biking in 84 in Snowdonia, North Wales and our bikes took an awful amount of abuse, but they got us home.
Carrying a 34 lbs mountain bike on your shoulder was part of the course 😁.
I find the latest bikes to be soulless, no character, plastic looking, fragile, just horrible.
It's all race orientated, marketing hype, keeping up with the Jones' BS, throw away society that we live in. A very sad state of affairs.
You have my subscription young man 👍
the things you are speaking about is why when i buy bikes from decathlon i replace and change almost everything. i think the obsession with single chain rings provide many problems including cross chaining and lack of gear choices.i went to 42 cassette and 34 chain ring and still i dont have the gears i want. i think i will replace with small cassette and double chain ring much better idea and no cross chaining.
I bought an offbrand crankset on Ebay. Instead of holes drilled through the crank where the rings bolt on they are threaded from the backside.
Good rant. I'm with you on many if not all of these points. Needlessly complicated and we are a victim of marketing.
You speak a lot of truths. 👍 Some subjective, but still truths. 🙂
I’ve never liked curved bars personally, and disc brakes for road bikes are unnecessarily expensive, brittle and complicated. I literally don’t understand how they get away with charging as much as they do for road disc brake systems… But on the MTB / hybrid / straight bar side of things? I’ll take discs any day over rim brakes. 🙂 (I have a small commuter with rims and a rigid steel hybrid straight bar bike with discs - and 445mm chainstays 😉). You can get a full front or rear MTB brake system for around 25 euro, which gets you maybe a cheap rotor on the road side.
One additional thing I’ve noticed that drives the lightweight change is that although companies love lightweight stuff so they can sell you parts and frames more frequently, a lot more peole are mainly driving cars today, work on computers for a living, and are less used to manual labour. As a result, many are simply out of shape, see steel frames as ’too heavy’ and then opt for an aluminium XC bike with a cabon fork. It’s a bit sad but it is what it is.
On the flipside, there are a lot more cheap options to get people into riding today, and a boatload of other, more advanced options of all kinds than, say, in the 90s. I don’t drive electric myself, but I’ve also seen a lot of positives from that front - older people and those unused to physical fitness getting into riding bikes more. E-bikes also need more durable components, so those are starting to drip down to ’acoustic’ bike use as well. I hear a lot of good things about Shimano Cues, for example. Plus if you browse the used market, you have a LOT of options, even in small countries.
But yeah - bikes have experienced technologization and ’advancement’ in a sense similiar to computers: in order to buy a good bicycle that fits the bill today, you also need to know about bicycles. I can feel your pain as a previous specialty shop worker myself. Things would be easier if the only thing people could buy would be an expensive but also a durable, high-quality tool. But then you have people complaining about the price all the time. 🤷♂️
I think basic mechanical steel bikes peaked in the 3x9 to 2x10 days. When I saw where the industry was headed, I bought a 2x10 steel frame, tools, a lifetime of spare parts and learned to wrench for myself. No regrets.
There’d be a lot of demand for simple, durable, ’it just works’ -frames. Something like a Buffalo Bike. I’m sure someone will take on the challenge as the years go by and the SRAM v. Shimano tech development competition goes too far. 🙂
I ride 7 or 8 at the back (whichever I find cheaper), and a 3x cranks up front.
Ebikes are great. If my work were up-hill from home, I would rather commute on an e-bike, than take showers at work or use a car (or even a motorcycle).
Durability-wise - I recently fixed a destroyed Shimano Microspline 15 mm thru axle rear hub of an e-bike. The cartridge bearings were shattered (bearing balls split in half). It also has some design problems I discussed about the DT Swiss hubs (axle breaking problems look innevitable).
That hub is sold for MTBs (for aggressive off-road riding) and, apparently, e-bikes. :(
Regarding Cues:
It seems to be incompatible with other stuff. Not sure about quality and durability. It will arrive to Serbia in a few years, once used bikes with that tech. start coming in from Germany. :)
Relja
@@BikeGremlinUS Regarding CUES, I’ve heard of different types of hacks. No experience of my own yet, but still. PLP likes testing things, and may be interesting to you if you’re not familiar with it: ruclips.net/video/FJ0HoZrNqMM/видео.html The road side may be problematic again, but again the mountain / hybrid use may be ok.
That cartridge bearing blow-out doesn’t surprise me - except for the most durable part splitting in half: that must have gone through some heavy dirt. 😳 I’ve heard that Shimano’s quality has been steadily going down over the years, and there are also lemons here and there, of course. Thru-axle is nice for rigidity, but I’ve never liked the idea that it threads directly into the frame. If those threads go, your frame is toast, which is why I’m still on quick-release. And again personal preference only, but I think cartridge is fine for the bottom bracket and headset, but I’m still using cup and cone, loose bb hubs for wheels. If you know how to set them and grab a few extra cones as spares, they can take almost anything (outside hardcore mountain stuff) and last you a long time.
I also expect a lot of newer Chinese / Taiwanese manufacturers entering the Euro market via Aliexpress in the coming years, which should fill in a lot of gaps that the big manufacturers are making.
I casualy ride xc, dropper is a must, hydraulics disk brakes are a must, suspenssion fork is a must, modern geometry is a must, and i also love my hardtail in the city, i can go up and down sidewalks, brake in a second and use my dropper at red lights, stop the cap
MORE RANTS PLEASE! I really dog cy ling rants yt!
Thanks for sharing your thought. I agree with most of what you have explained but i do enjoy using mechanical disc brake because it is some what serviceable easily for a newbie like me. Do you have any thoughts on fixed gear bike or single speed bike?
Single speed are nice for flat terrain (especially for commuting).
Fixed gear - I’m not a fan. Some folks love them. In Serbia, fixies are exotic/boutique and more expensive.
Relja
I have multiple bike and covered bikes to ebikes but mostly low power or mid drive 750 or less but I know everyone says diskbreaks are a must but I still prefer rim breaks for my bikes ,even though my newest is a disk but with was rim 😅
With e-bikes it's even worse... More and more and more Nm of power on the mid-engine, while the gears keep getting more and the chain keeps getting thinner...I need a new chain every 6 weeks.
I agree 110% with every point you have made in this video! Keep up the good work!
The most polite rant I have ever heard ❤
Carbon forks, especially in this era of oversized steer tubes have made bikes way, way too stiff on the front end. The transfer of vibration to your hands is increased by a lot. Don't think that running lower tire pressure is the "solution", because it isn't and won't be as effective as designing a compliant front end. Only a well made steel fork can accomplish the ideal combination of strength and vibration absorbtion. Of course the best steel fork will be a rim brake type where the fork legs can be made lighter and thinner due to not having to deal with disc brake forces.
Relja, your views, opinions and advice are much appreciated and invaluable.
Re: the disc vs rim brake argument. "You are preaching to the choir." is an old saying, which I'm sure Serbians have an equivalent for.
But, marketing departments are as clever as they are dishonest and if someone has to have the simplest of mechanical engineering principles "belted" into them then they are a lost cause.
Re: 1x. I live by the beach. It is quite flat and I ride along the promenade for ~20kms every day, purely for exercise. I ride my single speed most of the time and there are some spots where I need to get off the saddle but I consider this exertion as additionally better exercise.
When it's really windy I I know I am going to struggle too much I use my 1x6 bike. My point is that 1x do have their place, but I agree with you in that they have become a fad.
Finally, I never watch any of your posts and not come away with something learnt. Thank you.
Thank you for the kind words.
My first geared bike was a 1x (1x5 or 6). :)
However, in this context, I mean the 1x marketed to people who need the wide gearing for long steep climbs, touring and similar. They are marketing and selling it as "the death of the front derailleur" and make abominable cassettes that start from 10 teeth (having to have a new, incompatible rear hub for it), and going all the way to 40+ teeth (requiring a new rear derailleur too), with 11 or more sprockets in order to avoid huge gearing ratio gaps between adjacent gears of such a wide cassette.
1x6 (or even 1x8) makes perfect sense for the use you've described. But it makes no sense (at least in my opinion) for the people who need very short (and very high) gearing for the above-described riding condidions. An exception could be very very muddy conditions or folks who ride dropper seat-posts and similar, and want all the controls at hand (one shifter fewer makes room for that).
Another problem is the lack of alternative choices. I don't mind people buying and enjoying that stuff (1x and other). I mind not having options for us who don't want or need that.
Relja
Your comments are spot on. So is the message on your shirt. 👍
Anyone who says rim brakes don’t work, they don’t know how to properly maintain them or they don’t have them properly installed
Great video, totally agree. I ride a 20+ yr old Trek - no discs, no carbon.
Pedals falling off and breaking crankarms is not an issue as long as they're torqued correctly. Shimano has a problem with their crank design but component failures are nothing new.
I have campy record triples on two road bikes w a corncob 10-17 cassette and aluminum campy ergo shifters.
I would not change a thing 😊
How much I agree with you! I don't know why people don't think for themselves but think according to what manufacturers want them too.
Over complication for no benefit.
I love my surly Ogre. Built like a tank, i have a 2x crank with 9 speed cassette and friction shifting. Unfortunately they got rid of the rim brake bosses on the one i have, but simple cable disc brakes have been reliable enough for me. Oh and man is that chain stay long (and adjustable). Sadly i think its the dying breath of surly as they seem to be going in the same direction as the rest of the industry. If youre looking for a modern bike manufacturer that still make bikes like in the 90s and early 2000s check out Soma, i have a Pescadero from them and its rim brake only road touring geometry and a very capable bike.
Threadless stems were the last real improvement? What about stronger wheels? More precise rim standards? Better tires? Much improved cockpit ergonomics? I could go on. There is no way I would trade my 2022 road bike for a vintage steel rig with friction shifters, my new bike is more comfortable and better in every way. I do love these retro-grouchy rants though so please don't mind me and keep them coming!
Mechanical disk breaks solve the problem of rubbing. 1/4 turn of a screw and it's adjusted.
Are there still Shimano friction shifting lever? To put where on what kind of bar?
Shimano stop making friction shifters yrs ago. The best thing you can do is go to ebay and search for 7 speed with the option of index shifting.
Russ from Path Less Pedalled has some advice about friction shifters. He uses Microshift .
Until recently at least, there were still some of the nice Dura-Ace 9x shifters (one of the best shifters ever made, might be the exact model you can see in this video) available (sold as bar-end, but can be mounted at downtime as well) that can be switched to just friction. I bought those new 2 years ago. But they might be out of stock now. They only seem to sell Shimano indexed bar-end shifters now.
Right now, one of the best friction shifters would be the Rivendell Silver shifter (made by Dia Compe). There is also a bar-end version of that design (the Uno shifter) that has a larger barrel to work with 11x pull ratio as a bar-end shifter.
For those people who live someplace flat where it hardly ever rains. Rim brakes are great. I'll never forget descending down a mountain in the rain and having to hit the brakes hard because a car went wide on a corner. I don't think i'd be alive now if my bike had rim brakes. More complicated to setup, yes. Safer, also yes.
I ride whole year long - and we have a decent amount of rain in central Europe. Rim brakes work even in the rain (with aluminium rims and decent brake pads). Disc brakes do bite a split second faster when it's pouring rain, and offer a bit better modulation. But, if I hadn't been riding for decades without disc brakes (and after having tried them too), I would probably believe that rim brakes are no good (in the wet).
(Good) disc brakes do perform better, no doubt. I just don't like not having a choice to choose what I prefer by and for myself (rim brakes are getting pushed out of the market on anything but the bottom-low end frames and bikes).
Relja
Good video man! Agree with all of your points. Industry is getting crazy. For me the worse part is push of hydrolic disc on road bikes with fully integrated one piece bar and stem combos and a shitload of proprietary parts. Nothing worse than that.
Good summary of everything wrong with modern bikes. My bike has a wheelbase longer than XL road bike yet it is a 46 size bike. Super stable, long chain stays. Perfect for TT
@colecoleman1499 a long wheelbase doesn't equal stability in all situations. You still need to account for head tube angle, rake, stem length and bar width. Also, TT bikes tend to have short seat stays. Weight balance on wheels is also a factor in geometry.
@@veganpotterthevegan agree, stem length is 90 and a non steep head tube angle as well
@colecoleman1499 depends on how slack that headtube/rake is but a my mountain bike has a slack headtube and 90mm stem. It handles very poorly at high speeds because minor adjustments make the bike very twitchy at high speeds. It's not a remotely stable bike. But for me, it's worth it to have a no maintenance Lauf suspension fork that's also very light. It's nothing I'd ever recommend to someone else. My TT bike has a long top tube for the size(I'm 6'1" and size down to a 51 because I need the short head tube) but it's still remarkably stable at high speeds in the aerobars. Sit up too much and unweight the front of the bike and it gets very twitchy.
You missed the bottom bracket out. Look at all the different brands and how they all become proprietary, I think this is the reason why the industry is in such a mess. They all want lock in to their product so they can sell more of it. Most of the 'innovation' I've seen in the last 20 or so years has been to make the bike more user unfriendly. I can't think of anything that has made bike maintenance and ownership easier. Even disc brakes - though I run hydraulic discs where I can and really like them basically because I can replace a cheap set of pads and rotor when needed rather than a whole wheel when the rims are worn out and I think that's a trade off worth having plus in my experience, the hydraulic brakes need less maintenance. I've never followed the manufacturer's guidance to replace the oil/fluid every six months etc. just ride the bike and change the fluid if you notice it's not working. Same with bottom brackets. I've been buying and fitting the good old tapered BB and cranks. They're cheap, reliable, ubiquitous and simple to swap out and replace if they do go wrong - though that irritating 5 bolt spider with one of the mounting bolts behind the crank really irritates 🤬.
Bikes should be simple to work on, no special tools, no hidden cables - I can see when all mine are frayed, no weirdly sized or shaped fasteners or mechanisms that you have to send back to the dealer to fix if things go wrong. In short, if you can't fix it at the side of the road then it's too complicated and not really a simple bicycle any more.
First time viewer - have been a keen cyclists for decades - subscribed🎉
Threaded forks and quill stems allow much easier height adjustments so for casual city bikes the best choice IMO
Yes. 100%. But wuill stems are dangerous (I’ve seen them fail and had them fail). Reason why:
bike.bikegremlin.com/10123/unsafe-cycling-patents/#3.1
Relja
@@BikeGremlinUS Sounds reasonable. I've had an a-head star nut fail during a ride but of course only the headset came a but loose during that ride. I've also read your comment about square bottom brackes. I've managed to exactly break one as a very heavy rider. But I also managed to snap off a hollowtech style crank (Rotor Vegast) during a ride and of course external bearings last only a couple of months while the failing square of the BB was 15 years old. For everything sportive/performance oriented use I 100% agree with your view but for city bikes and hybrid bikes I beg to differ.
But tightening the headset on the go is not easier. As you need a tool for that. Can't simply use a multitool. So modern solution is preferable, a syou can use a multitool, but adjustment is still possible with long enough steerer tube. So I don't see a reason to us eit on newer bikes.
Easier height adjustment yes, but not tightening the headset on the go, as you need a headset spanner or a suitable thin adjustable wrench.
@@mtbboy1993 I have a Stronglight vintage threaded headset that can be set by hand. The locking is done by a small Allen key. It has needle bearings.
disc brakes on high performance road bikes are the biggest gimmick ever created in cycling
Absolutely an epic video mate. Thanks for sharing