Watch This Before You Buy Carbon Wheels in 2024! - Lún Performance Factory Tour
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
- Is ''made in china'' still a bad thing in 2024? I will show what's important before you buy a carbon wheelset from china, or any other ''wester'' brand. The carbon fiber industry is developing and the biggest brands actually outsource their manufacturing to China (amongst other countries). Watch this documentary about Lún Performance where I went to Xiamen China to discover how their wheels are made from raw fiber to a fully assembled and Quality controlled wheelset! Lún Performance is leading the technology with their flagship MEGA wheelset and is ahead of the competition with their HALO spoke design.
Watch part 1 of this docu about Winspace, the main brand. Taking you along the head office, their handlebar factory and frame factory where we will show the carbon layup of the latest flagship frame, the Agile. 👉 • The Best CARBON Bikes ...
This Documentary is supported by:
► WINSPACE Carbon Frames/handlebars, 10% off with code CYCLINGFANATICS 👉bit.ly/WINSPACEBIKES
►LÚN PERFORMANCE Carbon Wheels, 10% off with code CYCLINGFANATICS 👉 bit.ly/LúnMega
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0:00 Intro
0:50 What to expect
1:18 My relation with Winspace & Lún Performance
1:44 The engineer about MEGA wheelset
3:29 The RIM and SPOKE manufacturing
4:05 Step 1, raw fiber to Carbon ''Pre-preg''
7:14 Step 2, cutting the carbon
7:44 Step 3, (SECRET) Layup Filament winding
9:24 Step 4, Curing the carbon in the oven
10:12 Difference Between Brands?
11:30 Step 5, Drilling, Sanding, Finishing
12:54 Step 6, Painting
14:48 Step 7, Logo Decals
16:37 Carbon spoke production
19:18 Step 8, Quality Control
20:43 Wheel assembly
22:36 Quality Control of finished wheel
23:35 R&D Lab (Top Secret)
27:02 The extra R&D test facility
28:15 We DESTROYED a Wheel!?
30:04 The key behind a high quality wheel. (the conclusion)
THIS IS PART 2 OF THE DOCUMENTARY, WATCH PART 1 👉 ruclips.net/video/RitLomA91G8/видео.html
Check out Winspace and Lún here!
► WINSPACE Carbon Frames/handlebars, 10% OFF with code CYCLINGFANATICS 👉 bit.ly/WINSPACEBIKES
►LÚN PERFORMANCE Carbon Wheels, 10% OFF with code CYCLINGFANATICS 👉 bit.ly/LúnMega
Amazing video! GCN can go hide with their factory tours, this is WAY BETTER MADE!!! Good job!
Just put that comment on their next videos 😉😉🤙🏻
Agreed, much better than GCN ever did.
Way cool Jasper. This was excellent.
Amazing video series from you and Winspace
Massive video. Very interesting good job
Is anyone else more amazed by the machines that are used in the process, than the actual product they are tasked for?
wow just came across this video. thanks for sharing. over the years ive bought 3 different winspace wheels and they are great!
I’ve had a set of hyper 50mm wheels, by far the best wheels I’ve ever ridden…ever.
What a great insight into the manufacturing process. Brilliantly presented and feels honest and informative. Genuinely has increased winspace as a presence in my mind when considering parts/frames in the future - would probably have never said that before watching. Great effort and wlll done by Winspace to give so much access and explanation. great video.
Good stuff. I appreciate them giving you so much access to their operations and information. Of course, certain trade secrets have to be guarded. But you rarely see anybody provide information and guided tours of these factories. Good stuff my friend.
Thanks!
Yeah man it truly felt special to walk inside these massive factories!
Very informative! Really enjoy your videos. Loving my SLC 2.0 with Hyper 33s, which I bought at the end of last year after watching your build and adventures in Haute Route 2022.
Awesome! Now you know how they are made 🙌🏻🙌🏻
Very nice content.
I love the variety in your content. It keeps me coming back for more. Well done!
Glad to hear it!
Nice video.
I sent my two cracked Berk carbon saddles to a factory in China for repair. I thought the saddles couldn’t be repaired, but my friend suggested trying it since it would be free if they couldn’t fix them. They sent them back three weeks later. They look good and are strong enough for me to sit on for more than a year.
I can trust Chinese carbon factories. They do a great job.
But in mass product, They need focus on QC. That's most important.
That's cool, what factory did this for you?
Very cool and interesting video indeed!
Many thanks!
Hello Jasper, thanks for the beautiful content you have been able to share with us and above all, considering how much Winspace and Lun guys invest in their design, production, development of wheels, say a big thank you to them for the opportunity they gave you and us. As a enthusiast cyclist first and as a composite engineer as second I have loved to see their facility and see how much they are constantly raising the bar and catching up with European and American factories. Sooner, if not already now, they will be ahead and leading the path
They have patents already that big brands are looking to buy 😉
@@jasperverkuijl From what I could see I was expecting that. R&D and QC departments of all respect. Cutting machines for composite, even raw composite processing. So happy for them.
Very good content Jasper! Many in the west still look at Chinese products like 2 decades ago. However, china moves so fast in tech that it’s hard for anyone living outside china to comprehend. Their top tier products are as competitive as any global brands or better. I have ran many Chinese wheels as well as western brands. And I have stuck to a couple of Chinese brands for their reliability for all my bikes
Nice 👍🏻
I think this video will help remove bias from people and help people see china has many high end manufacturers processes. Really great stuff.
Yep that’s also what we wanted to show 👍🏻
As ex owner of Wahoo Le Col that were sponsored by Lun, may I say that our athletes loved the wheels. Better quality than 99% of western brands.
Awesome!! Thanks for letting us know. 🤙🏻🤙🏻
Hey I did some Zwift races with wahoo le col some time ago! 🫡
@@jasperverkuijl I know Jasper! You need to message Tim Fulford and get back into the team :)
Great ! I wanna see more China factory tours....
Ill need to get more invitations haha
Very nice. Especially the innovation around hub and spoke technology. Years ahead of roval, princeton and the likes
They're like the FoxCon of wheels. Nice content.
I run hypers, and the wheels are WOW
🙌🏻🙌🏻
Great viewing, I ordered Chinese wheels about a week ago, and I thought the same thing about where most carbon wheels are made.
I can't tell what wheels I purchased, though, as it's a... Secret 😂
I hope it’s a reliable brand 👍🏻
As usual in Chinese production culture, they never show where they throw the wheels and items who not pass the check controls along the process.
I had import company before and imported other things from China and their culture doest throw anything, they put the not ok things aside and when it comes big orders they add the not ok products there. I know it so well.
My dad is the buyer for an international food distribution company and when food is about to expire it goes put outside in the garbage and many times he has witnessed Chinese restaurants picking up the expired food and well you know where that is going.
Well good think that Winspace does their own quality checks again when it arrives in their assembly room. They told me they still take out wheels that will not pass and send them back to the factory.
I’ve also been told they would reject frames that are then sold to other companies (just like you mentioned)
So yes, it’s probably true. Every quality has a price in China 🤙🏻
That big factory is the one who knows how stringent each buyer is. Of course we won't get it, but that data would be amazing for us to have.
Theoretically it should be the case that the brands with higher quality requirements and will pay higher prices to that factory .. and doing thorough checks of raw materials received means additional costs. So in general brands with higher prices are more likely to have higher quality parts. But there are many other factors at play so it's not that simple
I really like the girl didn't say a word during the whole video . LOL
She was security
It's China.
I've a set of Zipp & Rolf Ares 4.
Id definitely try some WINSPACE wheels to see the qualities of them against Zipp & Rolf Carbon Wheels.
I think I know where that will go but I like you to find out yourself 👍🏻😉
The testing looks amazing gives some confidence. I am currently checking to see what is out there, by the way the wheel test while spinning is one I am interested in I'm 165-Kg and am keen to see if wheel can handle speed under load going at 250-KM per hour. Yes it sounds ridiculous but I need to know wheel can handle the speed under load, I haven't even considered braking as I'm sure I can sit up and get bike speed down to 110-KPH. I also will need to know if these wheel sets exist on a serial production bike, not a prototype.
I have a motorway near by 253 meter altitude between top and bottom, hill section is 3,000 meters long, hard pack small chip seal. Grade 8.43%, acceleration 0.82M/S, acceleration drag adjusted 0.52M/S, CFD 0.25, X-Section 1.2M, Air Pressure 99.9Kpa (NTP), pedal power 1,000 watts + for 5-secs, can use run up from other side of hill so hit start line at 40KPH+ and then apply 1,000 watts plus pedal power to get speed to 100-KPH plus in under 20 seconds or 460 meters of travel, so over 2,000 meters to get to 210.5 KPH and 500-meter run off to flat. In any instance I'm comfortable braking to reduce speed to 110-KPH on hill transition to flat as it's a 3 lane motorway with no cat eye's at transition area.
Note:
Current Serial Production Unpaced Bicycle Record is 210.4KPH, I'm a heavy, crazy bastard that loves speed and bikes. If someone can validate my calculations I'm open for an attempt to give record a nudge. I don't speak Chinese and concept is in it's infancy, is there a contact person at wheel assembly where they did load test?
Bought a set of Hyper 67. Very happy with it. The wheels went into potholes a few times so far, but still good.
Good to hear!
Had a hyper wheelset for a year now, unbelievable
🤙🏻🤙🏻
The damage test is fantastic. All western brands I have seen are using free fall. There’s no way to measure force and analyze later. Win space is doing it in a more controlled way.
The freefall is a required test. Winspace does it too as you can see in this video. The other one is extra to test the joints of the 3piece bonding. 👍🏻
I don't argue about quality, but when there's a problem with the wheels, it's gonna be pain in the arse.
Impressive operation. I’d buy a set of those wheels.
support your own country ... don't give money to people that are looking to take over you
@@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed😅
@@KuriReevel why so Green?
Haha Harry always so patriotic. Thief of your own money too 😜
@@jasperverkuijl 😂🤣😆 Merca!
What was the company name of the factory making the rims? 🤗🤗
I thought that some wheel companies were making the rims themselve, but it seems that is very rare
This video helped me to better understand the main factors of wheel quality. You've got:
- design
- origial raw material quality
- Operational performance of the factories making the rims, spokes, hubs, etc
- tolerances of the wheel build company agreed with the company above.. plus how well the build company checks quality of parts received ans acts on problems
- Wheel building practices and QC of buulder
- and related to price, there are how well they've negotiated pirchaes prices... Their efficiently... Their marketing spend, profit margin, etc.
Good job taking notes 👍🏻👍🏻
Is there another video on interview with founder of Winspace - Stephen?
Not yet. Will come in the future
Good video Jasper!
My approach is simple, if I can afford real USA handmade then I buy it! If not then well China it is lol. So far I have been blessed and currently own 3 pairs of Enve SES wheels.
With all respect, you think enve rims are manufactured in usa??
@@jasperverkuijl Enve has 2 wheel models. Foundation model is manufactured in China and the SES model is handmade in USA.
@@thedronescene7474 you are mixing terms. Manufactured and handmade..... manufacturing of rims and spokes is not the same as building a wheel. ''handmade in USA'' probably means, assembled in usa. the rims..... probably manufactured somewhere else. (I dont know by fact where) which is totally fine, super high quality rims come from china (as ive shown). So you can call it made in USA if you want
@@jasperverkuijl Jasper, I respect you a lot. I have been following you since you started the channel, and I do not want to be disrespectful in any way. However, please do your research before making statements like that. ENVE has a full manufacturing facility where they produce all SES wheels and the Custom Road frame.
Yes, ENVE has some products made overseas, but the high-quality items are 100% manufactured here in the USA.
@@thedronescene7474 didnt know ENVE has a factory where they do some things 100% over there in the USA, good to know as well :) Qulity wise it might be the same as Winspace for sure.
Is Craft Racing wheelset build by them too?
I don’t know. I don’t think I saw any of that in the head office.
Operation looks legit. I would love to ride on some Chinese wheels.
Yeah man get them! Good Wheels will make your bike so much better!
Well. Light bicycle already use the technology to have ready to build rims out of the mold. Literally so smooth the surface doesn't have to be further processed.
Nice. But also light bicycle is not a mass production product and 3x as expensive as Hypers. So there is a bit of difference.
(Mass production is another world apart from making a one off product..)
campagnolo also has rims build this way
With filament winding you mean or?
(There are more brands that use that technique indeed)
I would buy Hypers in a heart beat, but my bike is from 2007 and the spacing of the chainstays wont clear a 28mm rim width.
Yep that’s going to be an issue as lots of brands are going wider on rim width…
(My Fuji from 2014 doesn’t fit anything bigger than 25mm tires..)
Very true, for the average rider no reason to spend 2k+ for wheels!
For average rider there's no need for CF wheels)
The Lún wheels are about €1000 with my discount so that’s half what you are mentioning.
A good wheelset is the most important thing in the bike so this investment can highly improve your ride performance. And also as an “average” rider that can give you extra fun and motivation 🤙🏻
Thanks for the vid. So Winspace doesn't manufacture its wheels, such as most western carbon wheels brands. It would be interesting to know what are the Chinese brands existing and building their own wheels, through their own factory.
I think you have a perception that western brands produce their rims in their own factory but that’s not true. There is no such thing as 1 brand producing only their own rims. (Sure there will be a brand somewhere in the world…) Watch the docu again;)
They all (most of them) come from factories like this. Than they only assemble the wheels and say it’s handmade in “whatever country”.
To add, they have the rims, hubs and spokes manufactured at their manufacturing facilities (factories) and than assemble it in their own factory (the assembly room).
I think Tuff produced their own rims hubs and so on for instance, vs Winspace outsourcing. While in Europe you still have the like of Corima, made in France. Don't get me wrong, i value very much Chinese brands. But i do value more the brands actually manufacturing their own stuff rather than outsourcing the main parts of the product and then outsourcing.
@@nimamoini6469 why would you value them more?
Did you see anything in the process making or in the factories you didn't like?
It’s hard to judge because these where the first factories I’ve ever visited. Even thought had a pretty good idea of carbon production, I was learning a lot and seeing things for the first time.
One thing would be that I learned/heard afterwards is that you should always wear gloves when working on carbon. (People when crazy in the comments on Instagram) so that’s one thing guess.
For the rest not much, I was honestly impressed by the process of wheels and frames etc.
@@jasperverkuijl That chinese lady applying the carbon to the frame wasn't wearing gloves.
Follow up question, were there a lot of secrets they didn't want to tell or show? Stuff you really wanted to see.
@@DanTuber the only thing they didn't show me was the filament wound carbon machine, just like I said in the video. for the rest i could see everything I wanted.
We are one composites.
Wanneer gaat Jasper bezoekje brengen in Eindhoven bij scope en interview Nieck Busser en Rik Kusters zou interessant zijn om nog dieper in de materie te gaan.
Ben in gesprek geweest met scope maar helaas geen tijd voor gehad dit jaar om iets mee te doen
ik weet niet zo goed wat ik van je steenkolen engels accent vind. :') Tenenkrommend, en ik moet er ook om grinniken!
Any way, voor de views maakt het verder niet uit! En deze video is dus ook zeker niet minder interessant. ;)
Hahaha ok kaaskop 😂
600000 high-end carbon wheelsets a year in one factory alone...How on earth there is so much demand for something that is so niche? I don't get it...
Not wheelset, rims.
But yeah, still a lot of rims! And they where upscaling to a much higher number!
I thought same - where these rims go?!?
@@event4216lots of cyclist all over the world man! They deliver to 50 something brands all over the world..
@@jasperverkuijl Well, if that's true I can only salute to this number of cyclists!
#cyclingfanatics!!
Looks similar in some ways to textile production, but then again it’s hundreds of threads of weaving so
I've got a pair being shipped now
How to spot a good company?
Go to their carpark. See the number of cars and the cars there.
And than? How to draw a conclusion?
I’d buy a set of winspace over Zipp, Roval and Hunt. All lack quality. From what I’ve seen, Winspace is far better quality than those overpriced big names
Great video and thank you for showing
Current Zipp is hookless trash, I wouldn't get it for free; the same goes for Enve. There is some evidence that Hunt wheels are made by Winspace. Rovals are great wheels, probably made at the Farsports factory, but they're ridiculously overpriced. I have a set of Winspace Hypers 2023. To be honest, the wall feels a bit flimsy, and from what I've seen, they don't look so flawless inside, even for RUclips specials. In my version, the spoke tension and trueness are not exceptionally perfect but perfectly acceptable. I got a set for less than $1200 with a discount code (the price of one Roval wheel). But most importantly, they feel faster, ride faster, and the quality has been great so far. After some accidents and huge potholes, they still hold up very well.
Hot take: Zipps are worth it for the free lifetime crash replacement alone. I've had 3 rims replaced. (Yes, I crash a lot). Enves got the same policy but only for 2 years and then you start getting discounts instead of a completely free replacement.
@@natheirabu-dahab1446 Yes, that's true. Zipp and Enve have great crash replacement policies. As I remember, Roval also offers some kind of crash discount. Overall, their warranties and support are better than those of any Chinese brands. However, they are about 2-3 times more expensive. My main complaint about Zipp and Enve is that they went hookless. Maybe it's the future, and I'm just an old man ranting, but I would like to have at least hooked options at this point in time.
@@natheirabu-dahab1446 Yes, that's true. Zipp and Enve have great crash replacement policies. As I remember, Roval also offers some kind of crash discount. Overall, the fancy brands warranties and support are better than those of any Chinese brands. However, they are about 2-3 times more expensive. My main complaint about Zipp and Enve is that they went hookless. Maybe it's the future, and I'm just an old man ranting, but I would like to have at least hooked options at this point in time.
Hmm, I think those Lin or Lun wheels look very good and high quality. Nice.
It's also cool to be able to take a tour in a high production factory like that that actually makes wheels for themselves and other brands.
That means there is very protected information there, not just Chinese Brands.
I also think Zipp are good wheels. I haven't had a set of them, but they are American made.
We make nice stuff here and we
have manufacturing there.
They obviously have very nice wheels of there own.
Proprietary processes of their own that are new and different for the market.
So that's how peaceful alliances work.
They can learn from us, and we can learn from them.
West
How can we make a better part? "ooh".
East
How can we make a better part?
"ooh".
And such is the progress of technology.
Zipps are made in USA
250lbs on Bontrager carbon wheels for 15 years…trust me…they are bullet proof
They're carbon spoke is just a lightweight/ mavic clone.
Not really. It’s a very different design actually
One rule I learnt over the years about wheels: you get almost exactly how much you pay. If something is too good to be true, then its not true. Wheel performance and quality is more than just a specs sheet.
How come? I’m interested to know what qualifies a good wheel for you.
100%, spoke tension according to some table alone doesn’t make a good wheel. Watch my hyper review video and you’ll learn a lot more about wheels!
T800 is T800. U shape is U shape. A sound hub is a sound hub. Sapim cz ray is sapim cz ray. But you can pay 1x, or 3x, for that. You'd really have to be specific in your claim, because i strongly disagree.
@@pierrex3226if you think the quality of a wheel is only depicted by the quality of yhe components you are missing out on some good information. The wheelbuilder will have a big influence on how well the wheel performs and stays true etc etc. I would highly recommend watching that review video on my Winspace hypers like I said before. (You will find it in my videos it’s got 200k something views)
@@pierrex3226 what's ur background sir? if you have some engineering background, it's kind of obvious that specs on paper dont necessarily match the quality. Wheels are not cars but just take that as analogy.
HED WHEELS HANDMADE IN THE USA!
With rim, spoke and hub manufacturing in Spain, taiwan and Belgium.
Don’t take stuff out of context.
Enjoyed watching this 30min advertisment for LUN, and heres me who just bought a set of HED Ardennes RA Black Alloy rims to go with my Cicli Barco XCR steel frame as I want an uncomplicated and robust bike...
The names sound pretty complicated to me haha 😜
Winspace wheels are a typical example of getting what you pay for. Creaking sounds included. No thanks.
I have no such issues 🤷🏼♂️
@@jasperverkuijl Then you are lucky because these issues are common. Just read several reviews and user experiences. Goedkoop = duurkoop.
@@user-d32658 wondering if you have Lún wheels yourself?
Sure there will be negative thoughts on reviews, always. But some of them are on older models and they have improved the design. I can only talk from my experience. I have 3 sets without issues and know a few people riding them without issues.
Goedkoop duurkoop is zeker niet op z’n plaats. Ten eerste omdat ze niet goedkoop zijn, ten tweede, de duurdere wielen op de markt hebben zeker net zoveel problemen. Ook lightweight wielen van 4K gaan kapot, mavic wielen vallen uit elkaar als je ernaar kijkt….
@@jasperverkuijl Lún are cheap compared to the more well-known brands. Believe me, you get what you pay for.
@@user-d32658hahaha. Ok, so you don’t answer any question I asked. Just throw another empty statement. I don’t believe you because I have great experience with them. 😃
About the price, maybe the other wheelset are just way too expensive. But you can pay what you want for whatever you want if it makes you feel good 👍🏻
Interesting. Carbon spoke is just a big NO tough.
Why? It’s stronger than steel
Your stewbid is showing
I had a crash with Lun Hyper wheels. 3 of the spokes suffered minor splits, but they didn't break. Easily replaced by bike shop. Formula 1 uses carbon everything for weight and safety reasons, so it seems to be a good option.
up to the consumer to choose. there are plenty of metal spoke on the market
@@jasperverkuijlthe designs are still not yet mature. Evidenced by then making many big revisions. Better to wait until they have it figured out and the wheels are durable, long lasting, easily serviceable, dont have corrosion issues with nipples, etc
In essence this is an Advertisement NO THANKS.
What is the problem exactly?
Nope, wheels I bought are made in usa.
Which brand?
@@jasperverkuijl forge + bond. Shift series. $937 a set right now. I got a set for my gravel bike and a set for my mountain bike.
Ok. Unknown brand to me but I’m sure it will be good 👍🏻👍🏻
@@jasperverkuijl they are fairly new. Have made wheels for some other brands. They use carbon with nylon thermal plastic instead of epoxy resin. Lots of videos and web reviews.
These are Hookless rims right? Great content Bytheway👍
no they are hooked
thanks