13:55 I will note that Polites *also* fought in the Trojan War. Which I actually think enhances his character, he's a man who's seen ten years of war, of carnage, of bloodshed. And despite all of that, he still sees the good in the world, he still believes in people, he's still an optimist. I think knowing he's gone through ten years of war makes his characterization even more interesting and more complex, the fact he's managed to remain a kind and compassionate soul despite everything
This is such an unproductive, anti-intellectual comment. By that logic, half of what happens only happens 'because that's what happened in The Odyssey', but obviously not everything that was in The Odyssey gets mentioned in Epic, and things happen in Epic that weren't in The Odyssey. Things that are in the musical are there for a reason beyond just 'gotta stick to canon!', and analysing and thinking about what that reason is is literally the whole point of not just the video, not just the musical, but literally any retelling.
@@Krakenekark calling them anti intellectual and unproductive is a bit harsh, especially since they're not even wrong?? While I do agree with you that its important that things happen for a reason,, completely disregarding the original material's influence isn't exactly a good decision aswell, esp since Jorge very much likes to be as close to the og book. Ex: Him getting a bit upset at having misinterpreted Aeolus' floating island, 12 long years (Circe saga) and him having to put the laestrygonians during Ruthlessness when it could've been just as if not more impactful if they're just battling against Poseidon (no hate btw just thought the comment came off a bit harsh)
@@Krakenekarkit's not anti-intellectual to say this takes place in ancient Greece BECAUSE that's when the OG story is set. Some details are artistic choices & can be further broken down, analyzed & some are just following the OG story It's not "anti-intellectual" to be able to recognize the difference
@@maverickfleorlouis1482 maybe the phrasing is harsh, but I find extremely irritating and dismissive when people comment on potentially interesting and genuine attempts at analysis and interpretation with comments that essentially boil down to 'no this doesn't happen for an interesting or artistically meaningful reason, it happens because a bunch of Greek people incorporated it into their legend thousands of years before any of us were born'. And like sure, that may be *why* it's like that on a shallow level, but like, that's not why it's like that. Comments like that seem intended to discourage people from trying to engage with a work on its own merits and think critically. In this Fandom especially, it does sometimes feel like everytime I see someone come up with a cool theory that's obviously just something they've thought up in their head and they maybe haven't read the Odyssey or aren't as familiar with greek myths or whatever, there's someone like OP waiting to shoot them down for daring to think about things for themselves. But that's just my take, I'm not super interested in getting in a stupid fight in someone's comment section, just expressing frustration 🤷♀️
I don't think Odysseus figured out Eurylochus opened the wind bag until Scylla... Because he was so sleep deprived from staying awake for nine days that he just immediately collapsed and fell asleep after shooing away Eurylochus :)
41:49 I might be looking too much into it but could this be a foreshadowing line? "I give the fire enough to stay burning" its her winions who tell the crew its treasure and instigate the crew to open the bag. She literally fed the fire of the crew
I absolutely love that you're a fellow Eurylochus defender. So many people get completely blinded and just blame him for everything without considering his perspective. Like with Circe's island, they say that "umm why did he just want to leave?? Isn't that hypocritical or something? He didn't care about the crew then!" when IT WAS A LITERAL GODDESS THAT TURNED THEM INTO PIGS! There would be no way for them to just defeat her without divine intervention!
@@I_HaveTheHighGround Unfounded hate. Every single thing he did was in fulfillment of the crew's wishes and in their best interest, while Ody always took brash decisions that could have led to greatly worse outcomes, hardly ever thinking of the crew. Even in cases where Ody wanted to "help" the crew, his main motivation was to prove his own strength and morality, instead of logically thinking what would be best for them.
Personally, I put more blame on Eurylochus cuz the curse Polyphemus put on Odysseus was only in effect until he got home. Basically in the Odyssey, the curse is: ‘Hear me, Poseidon, dark-tressed Earth-Bearer, if I am your son, if you say you are my father, let Odysseus, sacker of cities and son of Laertes, never reach his home on Ithaca: yet if he is destined to see his friends and his fine house in his own country, may he come there late and in sore distress, in another’s ship, losing all comrades, and let him find great trouble in his house.” (translated by Tony Kilne) So if Eurylochus(or any other crew member) hadn't opened the bag they truly WOULD HAVE been home free. The curse expires the moment Odysseus sets foot on Ithaca, so Poseidon can't do anything to him after that. They all would've been home free, with only 7 casualties instead of 600. Of course, something else could've happened that delayed them, but outside of the wind bag opening, there was a slim chance of anything like that happening as they were mere hours from home. This speaks more to the crew in The Odyssey tho than EPIC(the crew in the Odyssey is. Real dumb imo), since it's a very loose interpretation of it so the prophecy Jay set for EPIC could've been different like "yo dad, do me a solid and kill this guy" LMAO i dont think we have or ever will know exactly what Polyphemus' curse was in Epic but by Get in the Water and Poseidon threatening to drown all of Ithaca and gouge his son's eyes out, and Poseidon just overall constantly trying to kill Odysseus, it was probably a lot more malicious and is more personal in Epic so idk if getting to Ithaca would actually do Odysseus all that much good since as Jay has said, Epic is very different from the Odyssey so at least up to the end of the Ocean Saga the blame is probably 50/50, leaning towards Eury? I have biases from reading the Odyssey first which is why I shift more of the weight of blame onto Eury so idk After Thunder Saga I put more blame on Eurylochus overall anyways cuz I feel like he should know by now the consequences of pissing off a powerful beings friends, much less friends of the FREAKING SUN ITSELF💀💀honestly they're lucky Helios himself doesn't bother to come down and instead sics Zeus on them. Or worse, SICCED HIS OWN DAD(HYPERION) ON THEM💀💀💀LIKE i get he was hungry but my brother in christ just fish or find something else-or fuck it just eat grass for crying out loud! Or shoot down some birds! LITERALLY ANYTHING BUT KILL A TITAN'S COW FRIENDS Anyways erm rant over lol TLDR I blame Eurylochus WAYY more in the Odyssey for the wind bag, less so in Epic cuz we dunno the curse, completely in thunder saga for killing the stupid cows and uh yeah 👍 I gotta say, this was a really good analysis! I hadn't even thought about like half these points, great work!
I love how the Bed Odysseus made was formed out of the Olive Tree, and Gigi brings that back in with Just a Man, with the evil tree growing out of the infant’s crib, gripping the sky with it’s skull shaped branches, representing the chance the child has of growing into a monster in just the way Odysseus himself soon will.
You know, you are right about Athena. She should have explain and give him choice. I have not think about it like that. Awesome, Jorge is just amazing 😊😊😊
Okay thanka for the clarification, that Odyssesus was juat addressing only two of his crew members during "Keep your friends close" cause I assumed he came back down to the ship, hia crew hovers around him and just had the two named guy's act as their speaking piece. I was confused with how the second in command after having a stern talking too would be the one to open the bag but if he wasnt told and trust was fleeting between captain and second in command it makes way more sense that he opened the winds and felt guilt afterwards cause again, if he had juat trusted odds of course oddy was slipping up cause of Polites death. Its one of those double negatives both parties were in the wrong
In the song Monster cerci is an outlier because yes she's ruthless to protect her nymphs and she didn't have to show mercy to Odysseus but she did Thats the lesson we should take - you should be ruthless when it comes to protecting your people but don't be ruthless for ruthlessness sake, thats the line between a man and a Monster
If you ever did a separate upload of the video you made with all the best animatics and stuff, I would definitely watch. There is this awesome video though, called “Main Menu Screen Concept” by Ayan0 that is really cool and I think you should check out. It’s just a menu playing piano melodies form the end of Thunder bringer and the cut song Olive Tree that eventually clicks new game and fades straight into horse and the infant. It’s not canon but is very charming with it’s artwork and layout.
Every time I hear open arms I can't help but tear up a little. I keep listening to Epic It is an amazing musical and I'm super excited for the new song to come out on the 31st
Fun fact, the tree in Just a Man is an olive tree(bonus fact; The Olive Tree is the logo of Athens and the symbol of Athena, who helps Ody throughout Act one and until God Games in Act two)
44:52 Love the insights but I feel like Odysseus was quite obviously talking to the whole crew and not just Elpenor and Perimedes based on how he quite literally acknowledged everyone (Everybody listen closely, see how this bag is closed? that's how its supposed to be.") I think removing the fact that Eurylochus was warned beforehand really takes a lot of blame from him, He KNOWINGLY opened the bag and that's a fault on his part that obviously haunt him. but shouldn't condemn him. I think People are way too harsh on Eurylochus but also on Odysseus as well. Both have faults that have explanations for it but I honestly feel like both are just as much at fault as they are victims of circumstances (If anything, i think the gods should be the ones mostly blamed for everything lol)
I’ll gladly rescind my take on it if Jay says otherwise. It’s just my take/interpretation of how it’s delivered in the song. I agree with everything you said though, I think both parties are at fault to varying degrees. I’m no Eurylochus apologist but I did want to showcase how there’s a bit of nuance to both sides and that their choices are so human and realistic. People can hate on Eurylochus for what he did but they can’t say he isn’t consistent till the very end. Thank you for the lovely comment. 😁
I don’t mind, go crazy. I’ve actually never seen Hamilton. I assumed the true way to experience it would be on broadway so I’ve never got the chance but if there’s an alternative I’d definitely check it out.
I'm curious to know the reasoning behind saying Zeus only nudges him in the certain direction? I ask this because of him Saying 'This is the Will of the Gods' would you be able to elaborate on this?
Depends on how you look at it. I personally don’t see him saying it’s the will of the gods as a direct command. I like to believe that Odysseus had free will in that moment and could’ve ran the gambit with his family’s life if he wanted to. But as we know “deep down he would trade the world to see his wife and son” imagine what he’d do to save them.
Yeah what is amazing that everyone (Ody, Eurychlos etc) they all act like human beings. Controlled by emotions... Jorge dont make it so everyone is amazing and great and easy. They all humans . Except Gods😊
@@tooawkwrd Kind of a long shot, but I've always interpreted that as Telemachus view of an Adventure, Full Speed Ahead being the hopeful travelling song, before everything goes to hell Telemachus isn't thinking about the pain and trouble an adventure can be, just the act of moving Full Speed Ahead to his goals
What are you talking about with "the gods dont't force you to do anything" shit. Zues forced him to kill the kid "This is the will of the gods". And he also forced him to make a choice to kill himself or his crew. Otherwise great video.
I think you heavily misunderstood what I said. The gods never give him direct commands on what to do. They give him the illusion of choice while also implanting him with information that influences his decision. Killing that child and his crew were Odysseus’ decisions. The best you could argue is that he was manipulated/influenced to do so but he was absolutely not forced.
@@tooawkwrd Alright you might be right. I always interpreted the "This is the will of the gods." line followed by the thinder being something like "do not oppose the gods, mortal", but on another listen I hear that he emphasizes the that this is ultimately Odysseus' choice with the last line.
![Lil Uzi Vert - We Good [Official Audio]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/DrSfBULAsek/mqdefault.jpg)
Wisdom Saga Reaction going up tomorrow.
13:55 I will note that Polites *also* fought in the Trojan War. Which I actually think enhances his character, he's a man who's seen ten years of war, of carnage, of bloodshed. And despite all of that, he still sees the good in the world, he still believes in people, he's still an optimist. I think knowing he's gone through ten years of war makes his characterization even more interesting and more complex, the fact he's managed to remain a kind and compassionate soul despite everything
Excellent point
Actually, the reason he specifies that odysseus stayed awake for nine days to guard the bag is because that's what was written in the odyssey
womp womp😞😞, i still think the nine days plays into the reason why Eurylochus opened the bag
This is such an unproductive, anti-intellectual comment. By that logic, half of what happens only happens 'because that's what happened in The Odyssey', but obviously not everything that was in The Odyssey gets mentioned in Epic, and things happen in Epic that weren't in The Odyssey. Things that are in the musical are there for a reason beyond just 'gotta stick to canon!', and analysing and thinking about what that reason is is literally the whole point of not just the video, not just the musical, but literally any retelling.
@@Krakenekark calling them anti intellectual and unproductive is a bit harsh, especially since they're not even wrong?? While I do agree with you that its important that things happen for a reason,, completely disregarding the original material's influence isn't exactly a good decision aswell, esp since Jorge very much likes to be as close to the og book. Ex: Him getting a bit upset at having misinterpreted Aeolus' floating island, 12 long years (Circe saga) and him having to put the laestrygonians during Ruthlessness when it could've been just as if not more impactful if they're just battling against Poseidon (no hate btw just thought the comment came off a bit harsh)
@@Krakenekarkit's not anti-intellectual to say this takes place in ancient Greece BECAUSE that's when the OG story is set.
Some details are artistic choices & can be further broken down, analyzed & some are just following the OG story
It's not "anti-intellectual" to be able to recognize the difference
@@maverickfleorlouis1482 maybe the phrasing is harsh, but I find extremely irritating and dismissive when people comment on potentially interesting and genuine attempts at analysis and interpretation with comments that essentially boil down to 'no this doesn't happen for an interesting or artistically meaningful reason, it happens because a bunch of Greek people incorporated it into their legend thousands of years before any of us were born'. And like sure, that may be *why* it's like that on a shallow level, but like, that's not why it's like that. Comments like that seem intended to discourage people from trying to engage with a work on its own merits and think critically. In this Fandom especially, it does sometimes feel like everytime I see someone come up with a cool theory that's obviously just something they've thought up in their head and they maybe haven't read the Odyssey or aren't as familiar with greek myths or whatever, there's someone like OP waiting to shoot them down for daring to think about things for themselves. But that's just my take, I'm not super interested in getting in a stupid fight in someone's comment section, just expressing frustration 🤷♀️
I don't think Odysseus figured out Eurylochus opened the wind bag until Scylla...
Because he was so sleep deprived from staying awake for nine days that he just immediately collapsed and fell asleep after shooing away Eurylochus :)
It’s crazy that a weird old story from hundreds of years ago has become a beloved masterpiece of songwriting and storytelling.
41:49
I might be looking too much into it but could this be a foreshadowing line? "I give the fire enough to stay burning" its her winions who tell the crew its treasure and instigate the crew to open the bag. She literally fed the fire of the crew
right over the target my friend
I absolutely love that you're a fellow Eurylochus defender. So many people get completely blinded and just blame him for everything without considering his perspective. Like with Circe's island, they say that "umm why did he just want to leave?? Isn't that hypocritical or something? He didn't care about the crew then!" when IT WAS A LITERAL GODDESS THAT TURNED THEM INTO PIGS! There would be no way for them to just defeat her without divine intervention!
See, I know logically that eurylochus isn't entirely in the wrong but he still pisses me off
@@I_HaveTheHighGround Unfounded hate. Every single thing he did was in fulfillment of the crew's wishes and in their best interest, while Ody always took brash decisions that could have led to greatly worse outcomes, hardly ever thinking of the crew. Even in cases where Ody wanted to "help" the crew, his main motivation was to prove his own strength and morality, instead of logically thinking what would be best for them.
Personally, I put more blame on Eurylochus cuz the curse Polyphemus put on Odysseus was only in effect until he got home. Basically in the Odyssey, the curse is:
‘Hear me, Poseidon, dark-tressed Earth-Bearer, if I am your son, if you say you are my father, let Odysseus, sacker of cities and son of Laertes, never reach his home on Ithaca: yet if he is destined to see his friends and his fine house in his own country, may he come there late and in sore distress, in another’s ship, losing all comrades, and let him find great trouble in his house.” (translated by Tony Kilne)
So if Eurylochus(or any other crew member) hadn't opened the bag they truly WOULD HAVE been home free. The curse expires the moment Odysseus sets foot on Ithaca, so Poseidon can't do anything to him after that. They all would've been home free, with only 7 casualties instead of 600. Of course, something else could've happened that delayed them, but outside of the wind bag opening, there was a slim chance of anything like that happening as they were mere hours from home.
This speaks more to the crew in The Odyssey tho than EPIC(the crew in the Odyssey is. Real dumb imo), since it's a very loose interpretation of it so the prophecy Jay set for EPIC could've been different like "yo dad, do me a solid and kill this guy" LMAO i dont think we have or ever will know exactly what Polyphemus' curse was in Epic but by Get in the Water and Poseidon threatening to drown all of Ithaca and gouge his son's eyes out, and Poseidon just overall constantly trying to kill Odysseus, it was probably a lot more malicious and is more personal in Epic so idk if getting to Ithaca would actually do Odysseus all that much good since as Jay has said, Epic is very different from the Odyssey so at least up to the end of the Ocean Saga the blame is probably 50/50, leaning towards Eury? I have biases from reading the Odyssey first which is why I shift more of the weight of blame onto Eury so idk
After Thunder Saga I put more blame on Eurylochus overall anyways cuz I feel like he should know by now the consequences of pissing off a powerful beings friends, much less friends of the FREAKING SUN ITSELF💀💀honestly they're lucky Helios himself doesn't bother to come down and instead sics Zeus on them. Or worse, SICCED HIS OWN DAD(HYPERION) ON THEM💀💀💀LIKE i get he was hungry but my brother in christ just fish or find something else-or fuck it just eat grass for crying out loud! Or shoot down some birds! LITERALLY ANYTHING BUT KILL A TITAN'S COW FRIENDS
Anyways erm rant over lol TLDR I blame Eurylochus WAYY more in the Odyssey for the wind bag, less so in Epic cuz we dunno the curse, completely in thunder saga for killing the stupid cows and uh yeah 👍 I gotta say, this was a really good analysis! I hadn't even thought about like half these points, great work!
I love how the Bed Odysseus made was formed out of the Olive Tree, and Gigi brings that back in with Just a Man, with the evil tree growing out of the infant’s crib, gripping the sky with it’s skull shaped branches, representing the chance the child has of growing into a monster in just the way Odysseus himself soon will.
You know, you are right about Athena. She should have explain and give him choice. I have not think about it like that. Awesome, Jorge is just amazing 😊😊😊
Am watching this before the Livestream.
I love your breakdowns
Thank you 🥂
I know exactly what watch to spend the time i have to wait for the wisdom saga stream to start🤭
REAL
23:24 🗣🗣aht!! aht!!! back up!! back up!!! i dont got change sir!!
🤣
Okay thanka for the clarification, that Odyssesus was juat addressing only two of his crew members during "Keep your friends close" cause I assumed he came back down to the ship, hia crew hovers around him and just had the two named guy's act as their speaking piece. I was confused with how the second in command after having a stern talking too would be the one to open the bag but if he wasnt told and trust was fleeting between captain and second in command it makes way more sense that he opened the winds and felt guilt afterwards cause again, if he had juat trusted odds of course oddy was slipping up cause of Polites death. Its one of those double negatives both parties were in the wrong
In the song Monster cerci is an outlier because yes she's ruthless to protect her nymphs and she didn't have to show mercy to Odysseus but she did
Thats the lesson we should take - you should be ruthless when it comes to protecting your people but don't be ruthless for ruthlessness sake, thats the line between a man and a Monster
💯
If you ever did a separate upload of the video you made with all the best animatics and stuff, I would definitely watch. There is this awesome video though, called “Main Menu Screen Concept” by Ayan0 that is really cool and I think you should check out. It’s just a menu playing piano melodies form the end of Thunder bringer and the cut song Olive Tree that eventually clicks new game and fades straight into horse and the infant. It’s not canon but is very charming with it’s artwork and layout.
Every time I hear open arms I can't help but tear up a little. I keep listening to Epic It is an amazing musical and I'm super excited for the new song to come out on the 31st
Me too! That song is slept on
Fun fact, the tree in Just a Man is an olive tree(bonus fact; The Olive Tree is the logo of Athens and the symbol of Athena, who helps Ody throughout Act one and until God Games in Act two)
I always like what you have to say about this musical, your thoughts and theories are so good
Thank you!
44:52 Love the insights but I feel like Odysseus was quite obviously talking to the whole crew and not just Elpenor and Perimedes based on how he quite literally acknowledged everyone (Everybody listen closely, see how this bag is closed? that's how its supposed to be.") I think removing the fact that Eurylochus was warned beforehand really takes a lot of blame from him, He KNOWINGLY opened the bag and that's a fault on his part that obviously haunt him. but shouldn't condemn him.
I think People are way too harsh on Eurylochus but also on Odysseus as well. Both have faults that have explanations for it but I honestly feel like both are just as much at fault as they are victims of circumstances (If anything, i think the gods should be the ones mostly blamed for everything lol)
I’ll gladly rescind my take on it if Jay says otherwise. It’s just my take/interpretation of how it’s delivered in the song. I agree with everything you said though, I think both parties are at fault to varying degrees. I’m no Eurylochus apologist but I did want to showcase how there’s a bit of nuance to both sides and that their choices are so human and realistic. People can hate on Eurylochus for what he did but they can’t say he isn’t consistent till the very end. Thank you for the lovely comment. 😁
The seizing at end of survive killed me 🤣💀💀
My favorite and the best reacted to epic❤
14:35 honestly, Polites and Euralacus(idk how to spell it) are like the little angel(Polites) and little devil(Euralacus) on his shoulder
YOUR VOCALS ARE SOO GOOD!
Wooo! Thank you for making this video! I am eating my lunch and laughing :)!
Yw! Glad I could make you smile 😁
Polites having glasses is fucking me up lmao
they draw him like that cause the actor that plays him wears glasses
Sorry for commenting a ton but I would love if you could talk about Hamilton as well because I love your insight!
I don’t mind, go crazy. I’ve actually never seen Hamilton. I assumed the true way to experience it would be on broadway so I’ve never got the chance but if there’s an alternative I’d definitely check it out.
@@tooawkwrd I would totally recommend Disney plus or Animatics!
@@tooawkwrd
There's a professionally filmed version of Hamilton on Disney plus.
Dang you’ve got a killer singing voice
Aw thanks 🙏
4:35 i just know karaoke with you is so fun
Just listened to the wisdom saga ( it came out early in Egypt) and this is a nice video to watch after it
Lucky 😩 I’ll be posting a reaction to that whenever I can watch it here in the states.
I'm curious to know the reasoning behind saying Zeus only nudges him in the certain direction? I ask this because of him Saying 'This is the Will of the Gods' would you be able to elaborate on this?
Depends on how you look at it. I personally don’t see him saying it’s the will of the gods as a direct command. I like to believe that Odysseus had free will in that moment and could’ve ran the gambit with his family’s life if he wanted to.
But as we know “deep down he would trade the world to see his wife and son” imagine what he’d do to save them.
Idk if you can edit descriptions post upload, but can you maybe ad a link to the animation compilation video?
ruclips.net/video/xpFBpkqmsOs/видео.htmlsi=PXWYVSlCTYjExjby
Yeah what is amazing that everyone (Ody, Eurychlos etc) they all act like human beings. Controlled by emotions... Jorge dont make it so everyone is amazing and great and easy. They all humans
. Except Gods😊
Do you think there is a reason that the “Watch where the birds fly” from Full Speed Ahead is the same tune as “Somebody help meeee” from Legendary?
Not sure, could just be a parallel to show how similar they are but thematically I got nothing
@@tooawkwrd Yeah, same here
@@tooawkwrd Kind of a long shot, but I've always interpreted that as Telemachus view of an Adventure, Full Speed Ahead being the hopeful travelling song, before everything goes to hell
Telemachus isn't thinking about the pain and trouble an adventure can be, just the act of moving Full Speed Ahead to his goals
What are you talking about with "the gods dont't force you to do anything" shit. Zues forced him to kill the kid "This is the will of the gods". And he also forced him to make a choice to kill himself or his crew.
Otherwise great video.
I think you heavily misunderstood what I said. The gods never give him direct commands on what to do. They give him the illusion of choice while also implanting him with information that influences his decision. Killing that child and his crew were Odysseus’ decisions. The best you could argue is that he was manipulated/influenced to do so but he was absolutely not forced.
@@tooawkwrd Alright you might be right. I always interpreted the "This is the will of the gods." line followed by the thinder being something like "do not oppose the gods, mortal", but on another listen I hear that he emphasizes the that this is ultimately Odysseus' choice with the last line.
@@angelbozukov7179 Doesn't feel like much of a "choice". But maybe that's just my religious trauma talking.