In the early 80s I was put in the "Gifted" program in school. Somewhere around 86' they decided I should not be in the gifted program, due to low academic performance, and I probably didn't. I struggled with topics I found boring and excelled at topics I loved. I haven't thought much about those things for a number of years. My wife and I have a conversation about my childhood every once in a while. I'm 50, it would have been exceptional for a neurodivergent person to have been diagnosed back then. I, as of yet not been diagnosed as autistic. I share some of the same traits as some of the creators I watch do. What I do know is I am different and that is ok. I can fail and it is finally ok.
My experience after being placed in the "Gifted" program in the 90's was much the same! It's shocking how little seems to have changed in spite of all of us speaking up about our experiences for so long.
Early on, academics defined "giftedness" using tests for pattern recognition. It may have accidentally screened for ASD traits, partially. They used to even use the term "divergent thinker." Many of gifted students had ADHD or other classic pairings seen with ASD. I suspect the label was focused on one thing and ignored many other things.
this reminds me of some feelings and thoughts i've had lately about dignity. as autistic people we often end up needing to diminish our own worth, feelings, desires etc. because the way we demand to be respected can be taken as offensive. i say "taken as" offensive deliberately, because personally it's never my intention and i feel wronged when people interpret me demanding things as offensive. especially as a woman in my early 20s who has always been quiet and afraid of asking for things and is just now starting to learn to stand up for myself - why do i have to mitigate my demands, be polite and say "please" and "thank you" and "if it's not too much trouble could you maybe...?" as if i wasn't in the right for asking for it. it's humiliating. i'm tired of pretending like my needs are only wants, pretending like i don't believe i deserve whatever i'm asking for. it makes me feel icky and i hate that i have to do it, but it feels like sometimes it's the only way to get through to people without starting a fight, and in the end you can't change how the things you say are received, no matter the intention. what do you think about striking the balance between not diminishing yourself but also staying polite and considering the other person's feelings?
I would continue to say please and thank you. It's just polite to do so. I think this is something everyone struggles with nd and nt. It's just harder for nd, because accomodations are often different then what people would expect. But this is something to a defree everyone struggles with their entire lifes. How do I get my needs met without walking over others and their needs, learning boundaries, learning the difference between boundaries and rules ect. Something that is also complicated, people are used to a dynamic they have with others. Once this is set in stone it can be hard to change it. That's why it's sometimes easier to set boundaries and communicate needs with new people than to change already existing dynamics. In short: it's complicated.
@maydee3000 I 100% agree. It bothers me that even though this is an important discussion to have, the first response from many people is that autistic people need to shrink themselves. That we need to conform to what the NTs conception of how the world works. Also, the discussions I've seen kind of implies that you should discount all the things that are good about yourself so the rest of the world can continue to see you as lesser. I know that Autistamatic mentioned some of these things in the video but I feel like the importance of these points is heavily dismissed in some of these arguments.
@@danika9411I personally hate politeness for politeness sake. I'm ADHD, so it's not that I don't know social rituals, I just can't stand them. The unnecessary artifice just drives my brain crazy. That doesn't mean I'm rude (or seen as rude), only maybe a bit too straightforward sometimes. I might not be polite, but I'm nice. I won't bother with social flourishes, but I'll be constantly careful about how my words might make you feel. Some people might feel entitled to politeness, but I think most just want to not have their feelings hurt. I don't know how to give advice on how to avoid that as an autistic person, but I'd absolutely start by how phrasing affects the meaning and the emotional reactions people have.
@@IanUniackevery true. What I do to avoid shrinking myself is that I refuse to change my ADHD style of communication but find ways within it to avoid potential issues. For example: I love sharing things, trivia, stories, cool things I learned. I do it because I found those things enriching and want you to experience that feeling. But sadly some people thought I was bragging or making things about me. My core behavior hasn't changed, but now I make it clear that my focus is not on me or even in what I'm saying, it's in them. In the feelings I want them to experience. Another thing that helps a lot is giving them ways to feel agency without actually disrupting you. People are less prone to feel like I'm bragging once I ask what topics or things they enjoy the most so I can make sure that they enjoy what I'm saying. My way of socializing won't change regardless of what they pick, but it will feel less imposed, even if they never actually ask me to talk about something else. Just having the option explicitly available is enough to make them view things in a different light.
I'm 63. I still don't understand the answers to these questions. Whenever I try to do them "right", it's either still not right or I feel like I've betrayed my own person.
I think that the language used is secondary to the support given. I was labelled gifted but there was no further support. They could have labelled me all kinds of good or bad things if it had come with some help.
In my region, you'd hear MGM🦁, Mentally Gifted Minds. But the system didn't know what to do with them, besides segregate so they wouldn't endure so much bullying. They had the same teacher as the kids with Downs. They went to the zoo a lot.
@@randalalansmith9883 For me it was literally one meeting once in primary school, it was at the same meeting that they also said I needed special needs support for my inability to write...
We were segregated from the rest of the class. There were 4 of us. No one was diagnosed back then as it was the mid 70's. We were just told that we were ahead of the rest of the class. We were sent to the library where, occasionally, the principal would come and get us to do fun or interesting things and others where we spent hours without any direction at all. It felt a lot like we were being punished for being quick at our work. I spent a lot of time wondering what the other kids were learning up in the classroom while we sat, ignored, closed up in the library. Overall, not a great experience as it felt completely purposeless and I was very eager to learn (I still am!). Thank you for another great and relatable video. BTW I enjoy both styles of video presentation that you are using as I feel I learn something new every time.
I get that feeling, though the library was my place of refuge from the social pressures of school. However, another boy and I were sent out of math class to work at our own pace. We had no supervision, but were expected to turn in the written work of even problems daily of our progress through the textbooks. It became a competition on who could finish what level of math before the other. I always wonder what happened to that boy, who I now know has ADHD, probably AuDHD, like myself.
In the early '90s i was bumped up a grade. There was one kid in the "gifted" program, and i felt slighted i too wasn't in that program. I think he felt the same way that i got to move up a grade and he didn't. He was quite haughty about his gifted status and, being observant, i saw how the others looked depressed by his boasting. I don't want people to be saddened by my intelligence, so i learned never to flaunt it unless it was to help others, which i did. When my daughter was evaluated and determined to have an IQ of 135 at 10, instilling humble intelligence without dumbing yourself down was something i was successful in achieving. She was put into the gifted program, and immediately wanted out. Apart from it drawing attention she didn't want, it was a bunch of stupid, pointless projects. Unfortunately, the school is under the impression gifted kids have a hard time when moving up a grade. My wife and i think they're too dumb to understand that when her and i were moved up a grade, we already didn't fit in. When you're that far ahead, you will never fit in.
I was not put into gifted classes, I was lucky to be in regular classes. Looking back, I realize the categorization of people was a precursir to things lije "essential jobs" and non essential. Just more ways to create "other" divisions among people.
When I was in third grade, in 1973, my school separated out a few of us “gifted“ students for different activities. The next year, when I started fourth grade I was placed in a “accelerated learning“ classroom in a different school. We could go to this accelerated program if our parents would drive us to this school. This was part of the public school system in Wichita, Kansas. With all of the aircraft factories, and the associated large population of engineers, Wichita had many “gifted“ children. We were the autistic children of autistic adults. That program lasted through sixth grade. At that point, we were returned to what we referred to as “general population“ where we occasionally had accelerated individual classes, such as science, mathematics, or history. This continued for the remainder of my public schooling. I know from looking back that this experience was traumatic for many of my peers. There were traumatic things about it for me as well. One of these students gifts was the ability to be cruel. I do not think my classmates fared any better because they attended , a gifted school. I know for some they never recovered. I think most of those students were autistic. We didn’t get any help for dealing with the challenges of autism. Those of us who succeeded did so by using our intellectual capability to drag us, out of dire situations, our executive function deficits brought us to. Recently, my partner who holds a PhD in neuroscience was shocked at the limits to my executive function. She asked “how can you be so incredibly successful without the ability to plan“? Then she realized that I was successful because of the brute strength of my intellectual abilities. I don’t have to spend a month, solving a problem. I can solve it, pulling a single all nighter. My sons are like that as well. I think she sees us very differently now.
Thank you for the video. I appreciate that you moved the microphone away from your face when drinking your cuppa. I suspect this was to avoid triggering those with misophonia. Thank you.
I didn’t need to be singled out more as a child, than i allready was. I needed support and to have my burdens made smaller, not to have them increase while being pushed. I needed to be seen an valued for my personality traits, not my abilities. I needed to be loved for being me, not for achievements or how invissible i could become. I consider my ‘gift’ to be introspection and reflection, and thanks to that, i beat depression, bettered myself, and would today consider myself ‘succesfull’ on my own terms. I still would prefer knowing how to ask for help - the one thing I still can’t. I am only succesfull in my own terms, not in my family expectations of me. They look down on my steady job in a bookstore, because they can’t use it to win any bragging rights. And I am secretly happy about that. My small revenge. ‘Giftednes’ ruined my childhood.
This hit home and stirred up childhood memories from the 1970's. This topic comes up from time to time in my own head and brings up a lot of resentment and anger. I was told at a young age that I was "gifted" and that I would be part of the "movers and shakers", "an innovator", etc. I'm 58 and finally got my autism diagnosis a few months ago. I'm a washed up man living on disability since my late 30's, not a mover or shaker and now I'm finally understanding why thanks to content providers such as yourself and the other people of the community (other viewers) who comment on this content of neurodivergency. I rarely ever comment on videos in general, I'll think about commenting then avoid it because of a fear of engagement (how autism affects me most of the time). Thank you for your contribution to this community and something to talk about in my next therapy session.
The TV show Malcom In The Middle was particularly based on how labeling someone gifted can lead to social ostracization. I think a lot of Aspies could relate to Malcom, I know I sure did while growing up.
I loved MITM when it first broadcast, and enjoyed it all over again a year or 2 ago with my wife. It was a great show & yes I still find it very relatable now. Those school memories never fade.
It depends on the schools definition of "gifted". In the schools I went to "gifted" only meant high productivity and emotionaly self sufficient , so rich kids who didn't have traumatic childhoods or disability, not that the kids were any more intelligent. I hated the separation because I would have loved the specialized classes, but my skills were so spikey I was often stuck in the lower tracks bored as hell, with teachers expecting me to teach the others in the classroom, because they knew the work was below my abilities. I did well in testing but, but homework was impossible.
I love your points. I hadn't really thought about it but my dad's work was itinerant so I moved between schools a lot. I was REALLY lucky that at my first school they identified my situation and gave me specialised help to accelerate (in maths). However I definitely experienced what you say at other schools and it really bothered me. I think I probably never thought about it the way you do because my brain was anchored to "the system works" because of my earliest experience.
I was labeled "gifted" early in grade school and at first I loved it because I was instantly singled out for bullying in 2 schools now and the "gifted" class had maybe 10 students, most of them older than I was {k-8grade, so 5-13} so it was a safe place. My parents were just like "ok we knew you were smart, they say really smart. So I guess you better have straight As from now on then." It's like I was suddenly on my own - I was gifted so somehow that meant I could get myself up and to school. I didn't need help with homework or tests. Worse, all of a sudden I was supposed to be "above being bullied" somehow. It was always "oh, they're jealous because you're so smart and you're going to go to a fancy college and be successful while have to work for a living. You should be the bigger person and ignore it, or understand their pain or blah blah blah." While very few people were being diagnosed Autistic then, never mind girls like me, "gifted" became the reason/excuse for all my clearly Autistic signs/struggles. "Awww, she's just a little weird/shy/strange/sensitive/withdrawn... because she's too smart. The curse of genius, right?!" So, as a little 6 or 7 year old girl, I learned to mask my intelligence in front of my peers, make excuses for the poor ways others treated me, be too independent, hide my struggles and feel intense shame for them. It was like "Oh, look, we've discovered you're bright. Now, go do something amazing." But I didn't do anything amazing, I was having major burnout by 7th grade, which I masked because "what've you got to be stressed/worn out about? All you do is go to school. It's not like you do anything." Well, I mean I'm like 10 and y'all keep treating me like I'm supposed to be an amalgamation of Einstein and Jung and Da Vinci, wtf?
The gifted program was for smart kids. Most of the people in the gifted program. Were havers of autism without the intellectual disability, but didnt realize it was autism until they had kids.
Quinn, “Young, Gifted & Lost” is just on a whole other level. The quality of content you’re creating is absolutely mind-blowing. I mean, 22 minutes felt like five-I was completely immersed! You have this incredible way of explaining things, weaving in cultural, intellectual, and psychological insights alongside your personal experiences, and it all just flows so naturally. I also love your catchphrase, “I’m Quinn, and I’m autistic.” It’s such a grounding reminder of how central autistic identity is to who we are, and it’s so reassuring to hear it from you. Seeing how your brain works through your art and commentary is such a reflection of how my brain works, and it’s just so reassuring and inspiring. You’re a master of your craft, and it’s an absolute pleasure to hyperfixate on your videos. Can’t wait for the next one! Thank you so much for what you do, Quinn!
@@AutistamaticDo you have a normal heart rate for example if you get upset or experience fear or are surprised does your heart rate go up or stay neutral? I'm asking this because people with ASPD or Psychopathy have lower resting heart rates and they rarely go up is this the same for autistic people?
I think it showed some insight that my parents made sure we didn't take any IQ tests, ignored "gifted" programs, and later ignored Mensa and similar organizations, etc. My cousins who had taken IQ tests and/or were in the gifted programs (and later joined Mensa) were insufferable. Even so, I was always being compared to my supposed potential. But I think my brothers got the worst side of it when they were compared to me by my previous teachers and were told ridiculous things (like that they were disappointments...) I still feal arrogant when I describe myself as smart at what I feal are appropriate times, e.g. when meeting a new Dr, counselor, getting my autism diagnosis or being there for diagnoses of my autistic grandchildren. On the other hand having my granddaughter in the 2E programs at school was a very good thing overall. It probably helps that (like me) she doesn't care about what other people think of her.
Thank you Quinn, As a younger man it was important to me that others knew how intelligent I was. It wasn't because I wanted to be better than anyone else, but because I needed to feel that I had a place that wasn't at the bottom of the pile. With not being married, social, interested in sports or current affairs this limited my input, so I tried to make up for it in my own way. It took me a while to realise that my efforts only made things worse. Someone bought me a pin badge ' When you're as great as I am, it's hard to be humble.' Seeing it written down brought it home to me. These days I keep my gob shut and try to keep my opinions to myself and may help out if asked, and for that, I get more respect. Hope you don't mind, but I'd like a coffee and a hobnob next week. Cheers. 🧔 👍
I'm an old fart. I realize I have used the word in reference to myself with very obvious quote marks recently. I guess I thought I was making an ironic joke, like everyone is aware of how crappy it was to be isolated from other kids and over-praised on the one hand, and being told that we were lazy, selfish, rude and arrogant when we displayed our social differences, our attentional differences, our literal thinking or our need for honesty and directness. I guess some people would think it was great growing up and being told you were "the next Picasso" and never coming close to meeting expectations. So that's what I mean when I say I grew up "gifted". A very niche experience that it looks like many of your viewers know well. Thank you for helping me to understand how other people who were not aware if that context might interpret that as a flex.
Technialy I stored high enough in IQ test to get into mensa and for a quite long time I wanted to join mensa becaue I was really curious ahout how people I would meet there would be, since inteligence measurment and reaserching highly inteligent people are my special interests, but now I'm geniuely afraid of them 😬
I was born in 1971, in NJ, USA. I was placed in “gifted and talented” in an early grade, and stayed in G&T until graduation. So much teasing. So much stress. I learned to just be as quiet as possible, hide as much as possible and do what I could do excel academically and move on. I have anxiety and imposter syndrome a lot as a 53 year old. Thank you for being here.
Yup, Quinn. Right on the money. At least for our generation. My father is a retired teacher. I was assessed as a child in grades 2 and 3. When my Dad saw my IQ score he very carefully hid it from me, the other teachers and refused people who wanted to do things like 'accelerate' (move to a higher grade) or put me in other gifted programs. He realized that my social/physical development was behind enough that would have become a disaster. In fact, I decided to repeat Grade 6 despite passing because my deficits. (Ironically enough Math was one of them. I say Ironic because I have a Master's in Physics.) What follows is not victim mentality but documented cases. My Primary and Secondary education were heavily marked by bullying, ostracization, genuine attempts on my life, depression, anxiety, malicious accusations, bad luck and good grades. In the Physics department, most of the people there (student and prof alike) were some flavor of gifted. I could be myself and most people were 'OK' with it. Except the Department Head who cut off my funding and proclaimed that what I was working on (Astronomy -- Black Holes and High Mass X-ray Binaries) wasn't *real* science because there was no lab component. My social deficits keep me out of the workforce and education now. I'm mostly a recluse. Gotta take the whole package.
13:55 I was 'honored' with "Severely Emotionally Disturbed" since I was two years old. Put into Special Ed with other 'gifted' kids, and there was no individual special care plan... It was a bunch of bullies, who suddenly find themselves to have fewer targets in a small class (target: me).
Saying anything positive about yourself (in spite of it being true) is more harshly punished than actually committing acts of selfishness or condescension, behaving with explicit arrogance. It's all about words, not facts. Most people (especially among those with Non-Autistic Spectrum Disorder) construct their reality based on the terms used, and social assumptions that we all are supposed to accept, just because. It's like that everywhere, but I lived in Britain for 10 years and, wow, mate, that is the most anti-autistic society I've ever lived in. One is punished for being sincere everywhere I've been (only within Europe , I must say), but Britain ranks top, by far. They consider that being "polite" is saying "excuse me", even if you say it with a threatening tone. "Sorry" goes together with an elbow at your stomach, you can hardly tell which went first. A smile in most Britons' face means as much as a donation to charity from a multinational. Thanks for your videos, mate. I found out about my being autistic just a few months ago, and I am 45, thanks to you, to a large extent. I also dislike people saying I have "altas capacidades". As if not everyone was "gifted" at something, compared to others. Hugs!!!
I wasnt "gifted", I grew up in a fairly wealthy town where most children were well above average in intellectual skills. I was clearly different though. I am a self harm stimmer, so when I was a really young child, Kindergarten and 1st grade, I would slam my head into the desk when I struggled to get out the frustration. I would make noises or do things that frequently had my teachers punish me. I dont know/remember how I stopped but my mom mentions feeling guilty for breaking my spirit. I am just glad I found a friend in middle school who was like me in our speech and mental fluidity. We are still great friends 18 years later. Still learning so much about autism and frequently I see things that bring back either repressed or lost memories of my youth.
Even if you're not put into a "gifted" program, if your teachers or other adults make you feel like you're exceptionally intelligent - (or you see your spikes in skills that you don't even have to try for) and then you run into struggles that *are in the troughs, it's brutal. Like slamming face first into a brick wall.
I have ADHD and not only was I labeled as "gifted" but people saw me as such despite my parents never telling anyone about my "diagnosis", not even me. (I only found out I had an actual diagnosis later) I really have a conflicting relationship with the label, because on one hand it actually describes pretty well how I was seen by everyone. But also I fully relate to the feelings of pressure and failure that you talked about. I do agree that the label is generally bad, but would no label be better? My experience is that I could never escape it, people just saw potential in me and marked me accordingly, even if they didn't use the word "gifted". Was I actually "gifted"? Maybe. I was always seen as smart, eloquent and talented at many things. I was also considered bad at others, but generally people agreed that my skills far more than compensated for it. What I do know is that I really didn't feel gifted, but rather cursed. I was depressed, unrelatable, eloquent to the point of being insufferable (debating me was just extenuating) and terrified of not meeting expectations. I felt so alone. My mom often says that she could see the smile fading away from my face with each passing picture, but she didn't know what to do. I often wonder how much of me being "gifted" is actually because I was seen as such. From very young my parents and teachers incentivized my hyperfocus on complex things. And the moment I became aware of my expectations I started pushing myself too. Am I a self fulfilled prophecy? I often see the opposite in my sister. She's smart, but her brand of ADHD (inattentive) and being in my shadow actually deeply affected her. She struggled with math in similar ways as me, but where I was pressured and convinced that I should be good at them, she was made to feel stupid and broken, like she shouldn't even try. I often wonder what would happen if she had been treated as gifted.
Just my perspective ( as an aspie), I've honestly never heard an adult autistic person say "I am gifted"; they always say "I was in the gifted program". I think this is because people in the gifted programs, at least around the same time periods, tend to have a certain set of shared experiences we can relate to each other with. If someone announces "I am a baseball player" vs "I played baseball" I would probably sense a similar level of arrogance. And I think the general revulsion in these kind of statements was captured well once by ricky gervalis with "so fucking what"? Imagine being on a plane and the pilot passes out and someone shouts over the intercom "can anyone fly the plane" and you were to shout out "I am gifted". You are now obligated in some fashion to elaborate on how you being gifted means you can fly the plane, UNLESS of course you just are using it as stand in for general superiority. "Nah, but I am really good at chess" is going to probably get you thrown out plane. But here is the adjacent problem, I can not think of one thing that being "gifted" (or even saying, I have a spikey skill set), would have any relevance to in a general discussion. The autist who reacts is more likely to infodump their obsession with flight simulator or something and approach it that way, which lends itself to practical utility in the problem.
Whenever my parents' generation said someone was gifted, I felt it was their term for being clever but also disabled in some way, so it has always felt patronisingly ableist to me. But wait, there's rather a weird link with the term gifted - it was first coined by Francis Galton in 1869, and he was also the first person to document his own experience of aphantasia (although the word was coined later). He was also a pioneer of eugenics. Eew. No wonder it gives me strange vibes.
Yup, I have baggage with the word from my time in my school's program during the 80s-90s. Every neuro-divergent friend I have seems to have been given the label during their own childhood and none like it much.
I was in Elementary school in the 90's and got placed in a "Gifted and Talented" class. I didn't realize what it was in the moment so this was extremely informative. Thank you Quinn.
nah, i was put in gifted classes since 2nd grade, and i still call myself that when appropriate in conversation. but i only use "gifted" in meaning that i was in the gifted program at school.
Whenever i try to find any ressource how to identify a difference between austitic/Adhd and gifted the websites just keep saying "ask a professional" TELL ME YOUR SECRETS My working memory (ADHD) significantly lowered my score tho apparently ive got mostly gifted and even some incredible scores, leading me to being just under the gifted threshold so i didnt get to experience those institutions, and the high expectations put on me by others i dont think met up to my own expectations heh I dont think the label has much of a place nowadays, its misleading
In second grade, my teachers realized I was “accelerated”. The following year, in 3rd grade, I was placed in a school for such kids. We were doing up to 9th grade work. I was only there just over a year before we moved to a different city where such schools weren’t available. It’s interesting to me that this video popped up. I’ve been watching videos about gifted adults and wondering what the difference is in the way I present as autistic. Listening to Quinn, I feel like in the late 70s when we didn’t know about autism, gifted was the same thing - at least for me - by a different name. Finding out a year ago, at nearly 54 years old, that I am autistic was shocking but not surprising. I went through the feelings of upset that so many of us do about grieving a life that may have been somewhat different had we known. Though 3rd grade is a touchstone for me, I never understood it. My family certainly didn’t call me gifted or treat me differently. Today, I feel like I could swap names, gifted for autistic. Interestingly, I feel more aligned with autistic than gifted. Partly bc of the label and being humble, but bc autism is more encompassing and descriptive of my experiences. By the way, I hated the school. I cut all the time. Yes, in third grade. It was too overwhelming an environment. Too loud. Too bright with the lights. Changing of classes. And much greater expectations of me under the harsher physical environment. I was relieved to move so I could escape it. I did well academically, but inside it was killing me. Since I couldn’t speak my truth about it, I just cut school a lot. Anyway, thank you, Quinn, for the video. It helped to put a few more pieces together.
I'm 75 now, self-diagnosed two years ago. At around 6 I was labelled gifted, not autistic..... not sure autism was on anybody's mind then.... skipped grades, reached highschool at age 12. I was a loner, obviously. My highschool teachers kept pointing me in the direction of leadership roles like School President (turned down), Captain of the Cheerleaders (I was pretty bad at it) and Valedictorian of my graduating class (it was awful!) Thank you, Quinn. I finally have an answer to why none of that worked out. I mean that sincerely. I'm just beginning to understand myself in so many ways and that feels so good.
I was placed in a gifted school program for one year. It was a life saver. At the same time I went to counselling. That was a stupid waste of time. I always thought that being "gifted" indicated what *kind* of person you were, like using the term neurodivergent now, and I personally love that it's one rare occasion we don't have to self deprecate.
Yah, the "gifted" family of compliments is something i make every attempt to avoid. It always seems to come packaged with comments about not living up to potential. I have many perennials that people are very happy I don't explore.
it's denial and cope. the whole your 'not broken! your magic! ' I feel it dismissing and that it puts the onus back on me to fix my own problems. It never resolves in me getting useful help.
This video made me a bit sad. I was diagnosed with ASD as an adult, and I was put in a "Gifted Program" in school as a child, after an IQ test. And while there is probably a connection between those two things, I never saw it that way growing up. Yes I knew I was "odd," and I was certainly bullied & beaten up as an undiagnosed Autistic child going to public school, but I never saw these things as endemic to being "gifted." I saw the bullying/violence I experienced as a failing of the dominant culture, growing up in the inner city, where intelligence & "nerdiness" were reviled instead of celebrated. And when adults said I was gifted, it was a compliment & a relief to me -- like, "Oh good, at least I have THAT going for me. Whew!" (Of course I don't directly call MYSELF gifted lol. I just say "I was in the gifted program" which is a tad more demure ;) ). I'd also like to mention that not every child in the gifted program I attended was Autistic, not by a long shot. Most of them were very NT, except for a handful of us. Which is probably why I don't see a one-to-one correlation between being gifted, and being Autistic, even as I acknowledge the overlap. To me, "gifted" just means high IQ, regardless of disability or neurotype. All of that said, I very much respect Quinn's personal experience & opinion on the matter, and I'm very sorry that so many in the comments seem to also have had bad experiences being labeled "gifted" children. I too have had terrible childhood experiences, including violent bullying, unrealistic expectations, and harsh judgment. And regardless of whether it was because we were labeled "gifted," or because we are Autistic, or just because other people can be crappy, I do relate to that
I'd be disappointed in anyone having a problem with that. When it's an incoming observation from a third party, then of course it's a compliment and should be taken that way, IMO. It only becomes problematic when we say it about ourselves or, to a lesser degree, our kids. I'm glad that people recognise your strengths, whatever words they use😊
@@Autistamatic Thank you so much for your kind and nuanced reply! I'm relieved my experience isn't totally alien. And yes, it's true that no one likes a braggart, and it's a good reminder not to speak that way about oneself
I was, and still somehow am, pretty pop-culturaly stereotypical "gifted student". From one hand, I was really intelligent, analitical, inventive, curious and intelectually passionate person, but from the other, I was severly depressed, seriously socially incompetent, and struggling with surviving everyday life on daily basics
Thanks Quinn. I was never labeled as ‘gifted’, but in working class Australia in the 60s, there was always the expectation from my family and school that I was different because I was smart. The pressure was awful. I felt my differences, but didn’t ever feel very clever. Just a feeling of shell shock from the constant pressure of expectations and overwhelm. I can understand your feelings of the word gifted. I also think ‘potential’ is pretty awful too.
I had an Elementary school teacher bully me on class over being "gifted..." It ruined my life in ways that I don't really need to describe to "those who know." All because she was incredulous that I could perfectly recall the entirety of a third grade text, the beginning of which she used as a free writing prompt, and to me just writing the original text was The Truth and I couldn't write anything steering away from it...
I was recently diagnosed in my 30’s. In around 1st-2nd grade, I was labeled as “gifted”. School was a hard environment for me to learn in. The exact quote they said to my parents was “He’s the smartest kid we’ve ever evaluated, but we dont know what’s wrong with him.” So to my parents, I was highly intelligent for my age, but was broken somehow and my dad and doctors just spent time pumping me up on drugs for years in order to “fix” me so I’d be like other kids. I was told “you’re smart, you dont have any excuses. Just do what you’re supposed to. You just like being lazy and difficult. It’s not that hard, you can focus in school, you just don’t want to.” I would try to express my struggles and why things were hard and I was labeled lazy (many times), difficult, stubborn, an a**hole, naive, was told I was a loser and a bum and asked why I couldn’t just be like my cousins and other kids at school. I was seen as the family embarrassment and faced lots of consequences, physical, emotional, and mental abuse. I had to become who/what everyone else wanted me to be. It wasn’t until I found out I’m Autistic this late in life where I’ve finally been trying to be my real self. It’s been hard because after all this time, I sit here thinking “well, who am I? Do I even know or remember? Is it okay to be authentic? What do I actually like? Is it okay to finally speak up, defend myself and advocate for myself? Is it too late? Can I ever be myself?” All I know is I’ve been getting back into music and playing my basses a lot more. Music, and musical instruments are my special interest. I’ve been growing my collection of instruments and relearning a lot of them. I was in metal bands when I was younger, but my abusive dad would always find ways to discourage me, tell me how bad I was, how I should give it up, he would keep me from my friends and band meetings. He would criticize my playing while I was still trying to learn before I developed any real skills. One thing my dad did was use my special interests against me. If he found out I really loved and enjoyed something, he would keep me from it with false promises of letting me do it if I just did x,y, and z. I would do what he wanted, then laugh at me say things like “you actually thought I was serious? That was the only way to get you to do it! What makes you think you deserve that? You shouldn’t be into that stuff, it’s stupid. You’re nothing like me, there’s no way you’re my kid. If you were, you’d do all these things!” Stuff like that. In a lot of ways, he was trying to relieve his youth vicariously through me. He died from a drug overdose in my early 20’s. While I was sad because it was my father, in many ways, I felt so much relief knowing he could never treat me like that again. My wife is trying to help be get over some left over trauma. I wont even do a lot for myself because it was beat into my mind that anything I do for myself, even for my own health and well being is bad, selfish, and greedy. She has to push me to not be like that, especially after my diagnosis, which came after 7 years of us being together. She’s been patient and understanding of why I am the way I am because of the abuse and trauma I endured. She’s been trying to help me not feel these negative things about myself. Like I have a dream bass I’ve been looking at for over 10 Years. She always told me to get it for myself and I have every reason for why I couldn’t or shouldn’t…basically all the same stuff my dad made me believe. She saw me looking at it again a couple of months ago. She ended up going and finding the brand new upgraded model that came out recently and bought it for me as a surprise gift. I cried so much because no one has ever really done anything like that for me. She said she sees how much I love music and playing instruments and she’s seen me look at that bass for almost a decade and knew I wouldn’t ever buy it for myself, so she bought it. She said all she wanted in return was to have a horror movie night together. I’m realizing how, in a lot of ways, I’m abusing myself the same way my dad did because that’s what I’ve grown to feel I deserve in life.
I was pre-'gifted' designation in school, but oh the 'potential' I had and failed to live up to! My cringiest words are 'potential' and 'If only ...' A few years ago my mother gave me all my old report cards. Reading them was so emotional and I cried for the young innocent I was being burdened with so many expectations, and being given no credit for the sheer will it took to endure existing. I was about 10 when I first started fantasizing about being dead. For my mother, her word of burden was 'precocious' (1940-50's England). In her world it was the worst thing to be, especially if you're female. Your discussion didn't include the burden of responsibility that parents had to bear for how kids turned out and showed up. The blank slate theory of newborns was pretty popular in my parent's child rearing years. 'Gifted' was probably a relief for parents who felt the social burden, of 'You created this, there for it's your fault' scenarios. Even without autism applied to my children, (it was ADHD diagnoses), I lower the expectations on my children's outcomes, and often said to other adults and teachers, '"I don't care if they end up digging ditches, as long as they're good people" in defense of the spikey skill sets my own children displayed and I was expected to answer for. "I see where they got it from!" was one of my favourite compliments, Lol.
You know, I was also diagnosed in 1978 at the age of 9. Like you, here in the United States I was branded as 'gifted' and was singled out by malicious people (bullies, etc) due to my difference. My diagnosis was from a psychologist who was making waves for their research into autism in the late 1970s. Much, if not most, common knowledge of autism at the time was of those who had to be institutionalized and since I was 'high functioning', basically there was nothing they could do. "No soup for you!"
Great video as always, Quinn. I've not really come across this before, sounds like a huge amount of pressure to put on a child. Love the do the opposite of what Sheldon would do- great advice to live by 😄
It was helpful to remind me of how easily others can perceive I have some sort of superiority complex by what I say. I have been known to blurt out agreement with facts people spoke about me that I later, after processing the conversation, considered maybe it was meant to be a compliment. So I may have come off as rude when I only agreed or said "yes, I have been told that." Sorry to everyone I may have offended over the decades because really we all have strengths and challenges, successes and failures! I was labeled "gifted" in my youth, but didn't think much of it- I was just happy my best friend was also in the group!
Off the bat this reminds me of people hearing my records and saying- meaning to complement me - “ oh you have a fantastic voice! “. I have an average voice that I have trained and worked and exercised for my entire life. No one says Jimi Hendrix had “good hands”- that’s not where the musical inspiration and the skill to express it through one’s instrument is born. My speaking voice is gravely and often monotone - my singing voice isn’t a gift in that I did nothing to deserve it - it Hendrix my garden that I planted and tended w the help of countless others and opportunities I pursued. I was in the “A/P” gifted classes at school w my bestie. It provided cover for my autism and was less boring for me as far as that goes. Ok back to the video - I get stirred by the topic early in. Thx for always great content.
Yup, was even good enough for Mensa, which I now know is a complete joke. Thanks for explaining so well, now I know why I get called arrogant when I’m asking questions.
I was the only one in my family who was a few testing points short of Mensa. We had a family friend who was part of it and she found the people and the org snotty and awful so we all got (thankfully) turned off about joining it and it was frequently pointed out to me how I wouldn’t have qualified anyhow. Now that I’m old (65) I can reflect on all our lives and be at peace about where mine landed and see that those extra points and the highest of high iq narrative did not make their lives turn out better in the end. The shadow side of pride is shame so i was spared a portion of both w regard to the high iq rating. So touched to hear everyone’s experience in these comments. 🙏
I love the pauses in your presentation, rather than being quick cuts. Gives me time to process what I've just heard and makes it easier for me to pay attention.
Whether you be gifted or not, being giving is always a noble pursuit! I also don’t use it, except for word plays. I don’t find words offensive, however I find it particularly unhelpful! The effect it has on assumptions is very big! CHOOSE YOUR WORDS CAREFULLY! Even better, don’t burden someone with a STATE adjective, gift (lol) them with a recognition of their ACTION verbs! Ok thx Quinn you are such a Giving individual!!! Thank you for all your efforts and skillful means!!! (Oops just broke my own rule lol, you have the OPTION but not the OBLIGATION of taking this Giving adjective! Results may vary!)
Although I refrain from using it, I do, in fact, don't mind people saying that they're gifted. I see it as a simple, factual observation. Why beat around the bush and wait for people to eventually ask if you're gifted? But, that's just me.
Meaningless. The test they gave me in grade school that SHOULD have recognized me as autistic, instead made me “gifted,” which REALLY made me look like I “wasn’t living up to my potential.” Offensive, not necessarily. Scattershot and meaningless? Definitely.
I was called "gifted" as a child. I thought to myself many times that "it's not a gift, it's a curse." The course of my life has certainly not been at the top of any career or achievement level that might be expected if the only thing you look at is a test score and compare it to income, job seniority, or other cultural expectations. I'd rather find my own place in live and be happy with it, which is where I spent most of my career. At least when I could actually focus on the work I liked rather then being expected to be a "leader." As for the term "gifted," to me it means no more or less then any other inborn characteristic like being tall, or having natural strength, or coordination, or musical talent, or exceptional eyesight, etc. It's a starting point to build something you want, not a natural superiority. You still have to put in the work to be what you want, and that's more important then any initial talents or "gifts." Now if only we as a society could do a better job of encouraging all people to learn what's best for them and to pursue those goals effectively.
I've never encountered anyone even suggesting that it could be offensive. Its a term that comes with a lot of baggage and expectations (and not a lot of support), and as someone who was marked as "gifted" at school, it really seems like it was just an excuse to avoid exploring further and giving real support. If school had given equal attention to the places I was struggling as they did to proudly displaying my exceptional talent in a handful of subjects, I think I'd have done a lot better psychologically speaking. I never got support for my social difficulties, or my lack of emotional control. I never got additional or different teaching for subjects where I wasn't naturally talented. It would be better to use the term similarly to how we refer to the autistic "spiky skillset". Sure, I'm naturally talented in certain areas, but I'm also naturally useless in others. Most "gifted" people aren't the genius polymaths we're assumed to be. We're just more extreme in our talents and inabilities. But, the term does imply that we're just good at everything. Which is why I don't use it to describe myself, even though my teachers did. So, problematic? Definitely. Offensive? Not at all, I would consider if maybe the people saying it's offensive aren't entirely serious.
I've been asked it personally a couple of times & I of course enquired as to why they asked. IMO - it's probably just misunderstandings given a new cultural context. So many terms are picking up the "offensive" tag of late that I think it's led some folks to misinterpret the negative responses they get when they say "gifted" (or whatever equivalent they favour). They get a a bad reaction & think they've said something offensive, because that's so common these days - to put our foot in it - when in reality they just came across as a bit full of themselves.
About 95 a sixth grader in the emotional support class was invited to the gifted program after failing the year and being listed on the "Honor Roll" earlier the same year. The teacher frantically explained that it was because 50% of the grade was taken from homework and said student refused to hand in anything but, passed all of the tests. The student declined and graduated to middle school for the next year with failing grade in all but math science and gym, coincidentally having those classes under different instructors.
I never got diagnosed in school. Had to work it out for myself. Teachers alway thought I was smarter than I let on and was just lazy so I never got the help I actually needed. Although I can never work out if it was because the school was really bad, or if there was too many students, teachers weren't trained properly or racism - I'm cournish but grew up in wales and let me tell you it doesn't matter if you're fluent in welsh they'll always see you as english and will only want you to leave. Used to get bullied alot but my perants insisded that I ignore them. Even if I was getting beaten. I think the way schools are run leaves alot to be desired. For me, being "smart" only ever held me back. I'm told it's different now but I see there was a stabbing in my old school so I guess it hasn't changed that much. Left school with no qualifications just trauma.
great video, Quinn if I remember correctly, I was labeled gifted in 2nd or 3rd grade (early 90s) and enrolled in a spanish class. one day on my way to that class, I dropped all my class stuff and had a meltdown and quit. I don't remember it ever coming up again, but maybe yhe label was on my record
The term probably triggers the majority because because it is hard for them to imagine such a different way of relating to the world. I imagine they just think it means 'more clever', which understandably might annoy them. What they don't realise is the context - the tremendous difficulties that can come with having a high IQ, high capacity for abstract thought and sensitivity to ones surroundings. A different word for it would probably be helpful.
I was not identified as 2e until I was diagnosed months before I started a post-graduate certificate program at the age of 40. There was a university staff member that advised me on it. She told me to quit my job and make multiple, detailed calendars. She was probably right, but quitting work and effectively making and using multiple calendars wasn’t possible given my circumstances. My allistic brother was identified as gifted as a kid. My mom later told me that she didn’t find it fair that my brother had more learning opportunities because of how he scored on an IQ test at the age of 6. It was very validating to hear that from a parent. I did feel like I was missing out. My brother did very well in school and was well liked. I was actually a stronger student in multiple subjects, but he was more consistent and had that elusive EQ (social intelligence). In my experience, being neurodivergent excluded me from GATE.
Yes, "gifted" can hurt. It was really confusing for me to hear "Why are you so stupid if you're supposed to be so smart?" the two first years in primary school (my first teacher deeply disliked the two bilingual kids in her class - my best friend and me were also the two who could already read). I had been tested by psychologists so I could start school one year early, and all it got me was seven years of relentless bullying. #AutDHD
Very interesting topic… it’s difficult when you’re considered gifted in school, your peers often get envious, and the last thing you want is the attention. So you try to perform “worse”, to not receive the attention or the expectations. To perform in matters that interest is easy, and the contrary is true about matters that I find boring. But paradoxically still I had to push through (with successive burnouts) to at the same time continue receiving a “balanced” amount of praise, which because of RSD I now was dependant on. A bad spiral, because the expectations put on me by teachers and family were so high, that if I again ever performed only a little less than excellent, I immediately got negative feedback, which my rejection sensitive soul couldn’t take either..
My experience is quite different...I've always been shy (I now realise that may be as a result of undiagnosed autism) especially when I was younger. But the ridicule came anyway. I think people are off the mark a little bit when they make arguments like "people are justifiably angry because you keep rubbing it in their faces" and are making a bit of a straw man argument, as my experience is that people hate you just for the virtue of "being gifted" for want of a better word, regardless of the identity you chose. As an adult I chose to identify as that as a way to take ownership of the hate being thrown at me. At least that's what I feel in relation to whether we should adjust ourselves for neurotypicals. It just sounds like anothe claim of "they're not the problem, you're the problem" which the emerging discussion of double empathy shows is one of the primary ways that autistic people are oppressed. Although I did actually like your main point about how it made you feel like you weren't good enough. I guess I didn't have that because my parents never put any value on succeeding for better or worse. I'll certainly think about that when I'm talking about my own son.
That sounded like Public Image's first single, hahaha. It's funny, I was bullied in school and teachers said, oh, yes, but some day they will be like a great entrepeneur boss who buillies their colleagues or sth
I'm rehearsing with cuban musicians and they put the TV below their current activities. While I had a piano class, the TV was on, with colombian series and... the Big Band Theory. I realized how maybe on TV contents are produced using impressions about "other" people, showing X person as different, "othered" because of this or that, sometimes conduct differences about which maybe people don't know a lot in an emic (not anemic, but anthropologically centered on the person) perspective. But this "otherness is quite - exploited?- used commercially in a systematic manner. In this program, using prerecorded laughs, several characters talked about having certain social difficulties and it could be noted, for example, when Sheldon spoke publicly. That was a 'smooth' and distracted watch anyway. We had lunch then, so could watch with more attention (but wouldn't want to). They changed the program, in this other series, some detectives classified people according to some "personality disorders" (god forbid they chose to label someone with the PD I was diagnosed with). This divided attention about those TV themes started when an ad showcased a piano montuno (I'm learning salsa piano with the cuban musicians), and it was paired with "Betty La fea", somehow linking salsa with the "ugly", "othered" and maybe even g-word ("intelligent but unattractive secretary", wikipedia says) character in the series? I guess that this multiple layers of information... nobody cares about them and rejects them, throws tham away. They're important for me anyway, so I'm maybe a epistemological scavenger... and forgot a bit of how to play the montunos 😅
Bad useage, bad associations, bad history, made both in ignorance and in malice. But it doesn't have to be wrong, and it doesn't have to be cruel. But a new perspective won't heal memories of deep scars. I want to take the word back. I don't think we can, not really. Or that we even should. But we can take back the *fact* that we have gifts; our unique potential buried beneath our burdens from the worlds blindness. I don't know, and this isn't part if my own struggles. Just my ever wishful thinking spouting off. I call myself "Tilted", for what its worth. Or simply... eccentric. My advice that whatever term you want to use for yourself make it balanced. No extremes of good or bad, just a piece of what makes you different.
I think that people have made that term negative by not teaching what being talented is and how you should behave the reason people feel negatively about others talking about their gifts is two reasons the talented person wasn't taught how to talk about such things properly the other thing is we aren't taught how to view someone thats better than us at something so we view them in a negative way out of jealousy for example if some says my daughter has a talent for dancing she was trying to dance before she could walk she finally became a professional dancer we're so proud of her now as the listener we should be happy for someone living their dream or have a neutral stance but nothing negative i think context and tone of voice also matters when talking about such things put plainly i don't think we are taught properly as humans how to treat the talented and how to behave if you're talented thats the issue and for me personally i like hearing people say what there good at even boasting in a negative way because it allows me to learn more about them and learn about what they're talented in i think there's a way to talk about being talented and there's a way to hear it if those things were taught early on their would be far less friction
Thank you so much fo4 this video! The gifted label and program in school was a direct cause of soooooo much damage that had a major lasting effect. I got lucky due to a clerical error when switching schools which had me out of the program so I kept my mouth shut and refused to switch classes when it was discovered. For once my wishes won out and I was free.
I feel very disillusioned by my childhood "gifted" label. I was literally expected to get a Nobel prize and cure cancer. No matter what I did achieve, and at all the costs to my wellbeing, it was never going to be enough. A lot of the time I had no idea what steps to take in life. The good parts for me were - learning alongside friends who were likely ND too, having a bit of a halo effect with teachers and avoiding trouble, and being given lots of dinosaur books. 😄 I'm good now - living true to my identity, needs and values and compassionately embracing all my strengths and weaknesses. But boy were there some tough years. Still loving the tea time format 😊
I dont like the term Gifted. It's not a gift, it's a curse. I have never fitted in with my age group, I never enjoyed school, and Im not really successful professionaly. I was only assessed at 45, because I finally convinced my therapist that I might have addh. I could have been tested 4 years ago... when I first suspected it... but my therapist didnt believe me. My husband is not gifted, but he is much more successful academically than me
And I have used the word gifted to describe my IQ because that is the word they used when I was young. The people I have said this to were good friends and I immediately follow up the statement with a lot of self-deprecation. I have also failed to live up to any of the high expectations of my parents and teachers. The word does bring up a lot of painful feelings. I have made no grand discoveries. I clean houses because it brings me joy.
Honestly being labeled gifted is for me is just another thing that promotes masking and makes me feel as though I must live up to the expectations of others. As an adult it comes when people ask me what sort of work I do. I would never tell somebody I’m gifted and similarly I HATE it when people ask what work I do. When your talents do allow for high grades in school and enough masking to maintain a highly respected occupation it feels very lonely. I will never fit in with neurotypical people in my workplace and once others in my gaming groups find out what I do for a living it triggers something that sets me apart from them also.
20:15 I am not one of those without painful memories. I have so many traumatic memories, a therapist, this week, denied seeing me because I had too much trauma. Go figure. I am in so much mental pain, and I'm rejected for being too traumatized. Owch.
I'm sorry to hear that. I might have said "shocked" years back, but you're not the first person to say something along those lines, even in my video comments. FWIW - whilst I know there are numerous good therapists with a proven track record of helping ND patients - those I've seen personally have not been of help to me. I've struggled through learning my own way, and this channel is my attempt at sharing some of the understanding that got me this far. If the world won't help us, we have to find ways of helping ourselves & each other. I hope you find the help you seek soon🙏
I've never had to deal with the complications tied to the 'gifted' label, but I have dealt with 'special', and that meant quite the opposite in retrospect. We all have our triggers and it's important to be considerate of how our words might affect others. It's also important to be kind to ourselves should we have a social misstep, and when I do get offended, I try to remind myself that everyone (myself included) can unintentionally wound. I've certainly wounded many with my words, and despite trying my best not to, I'm certain to unintentionally wound others.
I have a high IQ and technically, yes, I'm "gifted." However, along with it comes considerable troubles trying to relate to others - even some of above average intelligence. This causes me quite a bit of trouble, and I actually think that life would be easier if I were somewhat closer to "normal" (since coming to this conclusion, I discovered that I'm autistic, but I believe the two are linked). Several years ago, when my first marriage was close to failure, I was in a relationship counselling session, and with all sincerity, I started to say a less detailed version of the first paragraph, above. I didn't get to say the "but" part of the message, which would've shown that I felt isolated because of the way I am, because the "counsellor" (she wasn't very good, and doesn't deserve the title) jumped in and reacted badly, as if I had been about to say that everyone should listen to me and do as I say. That's what I've come to expect, even from a supposed "trained professional counsellor" if I mention my intelligence. If only she had kept her mouth shut, she would've seen that I was saying my intelligence was a curse, and that I felt like an absolute failure in the aspects in life that counted the most. Truth be told, I still am. Being "gifted" is no gift. It's a curse.
Another irrelevant old fart here. I don't remember anyone using the word gifted, but I was seen as exceptionally smart at one time, and I have an ambivalent relationship to that. See, all through primary school I was told I was "slow" (which everyone knew meant stupid), so when I went to secondary school and was told I was bright I kind of clung to that as a lifeline. I would do anything to keep on being told that; and I did, at least until I was 18. But I never believed it. I still thought I was slow, and that if I didn't work hard enough I would be found out. Eventually some of it sank in, and now I teeter between an arrogant belief in my own intellectual superiority and the certainty that I'm a fraud who will be unmasked any minute now. It would be nice to just have some quiet unexaggerated confidence, a middle ground; but I don't think it's ever going to happen.
I was never labeled a gifted kid, and finishing school and college was a long and not so easy path for me. I only accidentally took an IQ test as a grownup and found out: whoops - gifted. So for me that was somewhat nice on the one hand - but on the other hand it was also like: Are you f. kidding me?! Your character points (spiky skillset) idea definitely describes me well. I may be a quick pattern spotter and simplifier, but my memory is rather bad (I really have to rote-learn facts if I need to retain them), and my reading fluency ... okay at best. What, however, with persons who are just once-exceptional? Only gifted? I had that sort of guy at school. Great at every subject except PE. Relaxedly interested in everything really. Breezed through school and college and became a professor. Do you think that those people are probably also spiky (autistic), even if it's not so immediately visible, or is that a different sort of animal? How would you judge the topic giftedness with regards to those people?
I never took an IQ test, but it was recognized when I was in preschool that I had “above-average intelligence”. Thanks to academic games on the TI-99/4A computer that my parents got in 1982 (when I was 3), I was reading on a 1st-grade level when I ENTERED kindergarten. Even though SOCIALLY, I was WAY BEHIND after kindergarten, the school couldn't justify holding me back because academically, I was SO FAR AHEAD. When I was in 3rd grade, I was in a combined 3rd-/4th-grade class with one teacher; all the students in the combined class were judged to be capable of studying on their own while the teacher taught the other grade. I never felt EXTERNAL pressure from being classified as “above average intelligence”, but that was mainly because I put the pressure on myself. My brother had been diagnosed with moderate/borderline severe “mental retardation” (IQ 55) when he was 4 & I was 6. After a year in the Early Childhood Development Center (ECDC), a special ed. preschool, my brother joined me at Linden Elementary when I started 2nd grade, although he was in a separate special ed. class from then through high school. This being 1986, my classmates believed that my brother’s disabilities must be contagious & they treated me accordingly. Excelling academically was my way of proving to myself that my classmates were wrong & I didn't have the same disabilities that my brother did.
You can have a spiky skillset and still breeze through school. I never had to really apply myself but I definitely noticed that some topics were more difficult for me in a very noticeable way, especially anything to do with visual and kinaesthetic information. I recall that we had to build these little robots in physics class and it was the only class I almost failed because I remember I couldn't even understand how to properly connect the cables. It should be noted that I also wrote a paper about string theory for physics class, which should really tell you about the contrast between the two. I think my friend at the time was also possibly autistic because she really struggled to keep up with all the abstract classes such as maths (I was good but never amazing at maths) but she absolutely thrived in that one class we had in physics when we had to build robots. No one performed as well as she did. Yet here I am as an adult who can barely figure out how to swap light bulbs sometimes, and I really struggle to understand instruction manuals but I can understand complex philosophical ideas and literary subtexts. I also struggle to apply myself to keep performing a boring task even if it's a means to an end such as rote memorization for learning a language or practice for learning how to play the guitar. My issue is that I grasp the result before I get there so I just feel overwhelmed having to also perform these steps in real time rather than just imagining what needs to be done. This difficultly to apply myself made school life increasingly difficult as I went though high school and university, because I was expected to keep up my learning but now that I started having to apply myself especially if it was boring or required rote memorization made it extremely difficult to do so.
Giftedness is most definitely a neurodevelopmental condition. Lots of splinter skills and asynchronous development across all domains, being treated like crap by peers and having unfair expectations by adults (you can do X, so you shouldn't have trouble with Y), sensory hypersensitivities, lots of overlap with many of the things we now know are autistic traits and/or ADHD traits, and not a good fit for education systems designed for the majority instead of this neurodivergent minority. It's unfair that this whole neurotype is labeled with such a loaded word as gifted, because it puts value judgment and prestige on some people and thus other people feel like they're being denigrated (I did not say anything about you!! And neither does my diagnosis of gifted!), and is dismissive of the fact that gifted people really do struggle. It's just as problematic as a functioning label given to autistic people. Doing well at one thing doesn't mean you don't have big struggles in other areas or even in that area sometimes. Giftedness means a lot more than IQ and IQ is not really a straightforward or accurate measurement of a whole human being. But listen, if you're going to put the other end of the bell curve in the DSM as a disorder, then both ends of the bell curve should be in there. Remember the word statistical in Statistical Manual? The DSM is not a good system and not a good description of human beings. But giftedness is statistically rare, not at all in the middle of the bell curve in terms of number of people in the population, so shouldn't go in the book just like all the other things that are divergent from the majority/norm? The social model of disability definitely applies to the experience of giftedness. Disability and giftedness, do not need to be emotionally loaded terms entwined with denigration nor prestige. If there were a completely different name for giftedness that wasn't a loaded term then it would still be a divergent neurotype that is a small minority of the population that society is not designed to fit. Same for the word exceptional, which in terms of the education system really means divergent from the majority and in need of accommodations to meet educational needs and ways of learning. Education of exceptional populations includes the different ways of learning and teaching to meet the needs of disabled people in what we call special ed, end of gifted people and what we call a gifted ed. Gifted education is a flavor of special ed, even if some people don't understand that. I want to add that at this point in my life I view the words gifted, disabled, spoonie, ADHD, AuDHD, and autistic as factual labels about me, without any implication of emotion or superiority or inferiority. I was diagnosed as gifted as a young child and my mom was an early education teacher who recognized it, learned more about it, and rightly told me that when I got to college I would meet more people like me and have social acceptance. That was true. Then as an adult, I started getting diagnosed with chronic illnesses (and later had to request assessments for ADHD and autism) that I have had all of my life, and I was able to let go of my lifelong self-description as a weakling and a runt who struggled with so many things that other people didn't. I learned to understand disability as a fact that did not deserve denigration or blame for things I couldn't do. I learned about disability rights and disability pride and disability acceptance and cross-disability solidarity. And those themes apply to all of the ways I am different from the majority -- in my neurotypes, physical and mental chronic health disabilities, and identities.
This is helpful for me to understand perhaps why giftedness (in the true definition, which is much deeper than just intelligence) hasn't been widely accepted as neurodivergence. Focusing on just the intellect is a narrow scope, and doesn't fully encompass the experience of giftedness, as it actually exists. Myself, and others are coming out to advocate for changing the name, since the term giftedness comes with many of the negative perceptions (elitism, etc) you mention here. From a gifted adult (who beliefs giftedness IS neurodivergent, not better than or separate from it), thanks for sharing your perspective.
To be neurodivergent, in particular autistic, is to possess a "spiky" skill set. We do well, even excel in some narrow areas, but we have equally specific vulnerabilities or failings. If we possess "gifts", it's naive to think they come without cost, yet that's the mould we are cast into. This video put it into a more culturally-specific context: ruclips.net/video/F0CXvtin-Ao/видео.htmlsi=xeoQa1KZmhoS_kjO
From one "irrelevant old fart" to another, thanks for discussing this Quinn. 💜
In the early 80s I was put in the "Gifted" program in school. Somewhere around 86' they decided I should not be in the gifted program, due to low academic performance, and I probably didn't. I struggled with topics I found boring and excelled at topics I loved. I haven't thought much about those things for a number of years. My wife and I have a conversation about my childhood every once in a while. I'm 50, it would have been exceptional for a neurodivergent person to have been diagnosed back then. I, as of yet not been diagnosed as autistic. I share some of the same traits as some of the creators I watch do. What I do know is I am different and that is ok. I can fail and it is finally ok.
My experience after being placed in the "Gifted" program in the 90's was much the same! It's shocking how little seems to have changed in spite of all of us speaking up about our experiences for so long.
I haven't been in a gifted program, but everything else you write sounds very similar to me.
Thanks for sharing
Early on, academics defined "giftedness" using tests for pattern recognition. It may have accidentally screened for ASD traits, partially. They used to even use the term "divergent thinker." Many of gifted students had ADHD or other classic pairings seen with ASD. I suspect the label was focused on one thing and ignored many other things.
@@tuvoca825 That makes a lot of sense!
this reminds me of some feelings and thoughts i've had lately about dignity.
as autistic people we often end up needing to diminish our own worth, feelings, desires etc. because the way we demand to be respected can be taken as offensive. i say "taken as" offensive deliberately, because personally it's never my intention and i feel wronged when people interpret me demanding things as offensive. especially as a woman in my early 20s who has always been quiet and afraid of asking for things and is just now starting to learn to stand up for myself - why do i have to mitigate my demands, be polite and say "please" and "thank you" and "if it's not too much trouble could you maybe...?" as if i wasn't in the right for asking for it.
it's humiliating. i'm tired of pretending like my needs are only wants, pretending like i don't believe i deserve whatever i'm asking for. it makes me feel icky and i hate that i have to do it, but it feels like sometimes it's the only way to get through to people without starting a fight, and in the end you can't change how the things you say are received, no matter the intention.
what do you think about striking the balance between not diminishing yourself but also staying polite and considering the other person's feelings?
I would continue to say please and thank you. It's just polite to do so. I think this is something everyone struggles with nd and nt. It's just harder for nd, because accomodations are often different then what people would expect.
But this is something to a defree everyone struggles with their entire lifes. How do I get my needs met without walking over others and their needs, learning boundaries, learning the difference between boundaries and rules ect.
Something that is also complicated, people are used to a dynamic they have with others. Once this is set in stone it can be hard to change it. That's why it's sometimes easier to set boundaries and communicate needs with new people than to change already existing dynamics.
In short: it's complicated.
@maydee3000 I 100% agree. It bothers me that even though this is an important discussion to have, the first response from many people is that autistic people need to shrink themselves. That we need to conform to what the NTs conception of how the world works. Also, the discussions I've seen kind of implies that you should discount all the things that are good about yourself so the rest of the world can continue to see you as lesser. I know that Autistamatic mentioned some of these things in the video but I feel like the importance of these points is heavily dismissed in some of these arguments.
@@danika9411I personally hate politeness for politeness sake. I'm ADHD, so it's not that I don't know social rituals, I just can't stand them. The unnecessary artifice just drives my brain crazy.
That doesn't mean I'm rude (or seen as rude), only maybe a bit too straightforward sometimes. I might not be polite, but I'm nice. I won't bother with social flourishes, but I'll be constantly careful about how my words might make you feel.
Some people might feel entitled to politeness, but I think most just want to not have their feelings hurt. I don't know how to give advice on how to avoid that as an autistic person, but I'd absolutely start by how phrasing affects the meaning and the emotional reactions people have.
@@IanUniackevery true. What I do to avoid shrinking myself is that I refuse to change my ADHD style of communication but find ways within it to avoid potential issues.
For example: I love sharing things, trivia, stories, cool things I learned. I do it because I found those things enriching and want you to experience that feeling. But sadly some people thought I was bragging or making things about me.
My core behavior hasn't changed, but now I make it clear that my focus is not on me or even in what I'm saying, it's in them. In the feelings I want them to experience.
Another thing that helps a lot is giving them ways to feel agency without actually disrupting you. People are less prone to feel like I'm bragging once I ask what topics or things they enjoy the most so I can make sure that they enjoy what I'm saying. My way of socializing won't change regardless of what they pick, but it will feel less imposed, even if they never actually ask me to talk about something else. Just having the option explicitly available is enough to make them view things in a different light.
I'm 63. I still don't understand the answers to these questions. Whenever I try to do them "right", it's either still not right or I feel like I've betrayed my own person.
I think that the language used is secondary to the support given. I was labelled gifted but there was no further support. They could have labelled me all kinds of good or bad things if it had come with some help.
In my region, you'd hear MGM🦁, Mentally Gifted Minds. But the system didn't know what to do with them, besides segregate so they wouldn't endure so much bullying. They had the same teacher as the kids with Downs. They went to the zoo a lot.
@@randalalansmith9883 For me it was literally one meeting once in primary school, it was at the same meeting that they also said I needed special needs support for my inability to write...
We were segregated from the rest of the class. There were 4 of us. No one was diagnosed back then as it was the mid 70's. We were just told that we were ahead of the rest of the class. We were sent to the library where, occasionally, the principal would come and get us to do fun or interesting things and others where we spent hours without any direction at all. It felt a lot like we were being punished for being quick at our work. I spent a lot of time wondering what the other kids were learning up in the classroom while we sat, ignored, closed up in the library. Overall, not a great experience as it felt completely purposeless and I was very eager to learn (I still am!). Thank you for another great and relatable video. BTW I enjoy both styles of video presentation that you are using as I feel I learn something new every time.
I get that feeling, though the library was my place of refuge from the social pressures of school. However, another boy and I were sent out of math class to work at our own pace. We had no supervision, but were expected to turn in the written work of even problems daily of our progress through the textbooks. It became a competition on who could finish what level of math before the other. I always wonder what happened to that boy, who I now know has ADHD, probably AuDHD, like myself.
In the early '90s i was bumped up a grade. There was one kid in the "gifted" program, and i felt slighted i too wasn't in that program. I think he felt the same way that i got to move up a grade and he didn't. He was quite haughty about his gifted status and, being observant, i saw how the others looked depressed by his boasting. I don't want people to be saddened by my intelligence, so i learned never to flaunt it unless it was to help others, which i did.
When my daughter was evaluated and determined to have an IQ of 135 at 10, instilling humble intelligence without dumbing yourself down was something i was successful in achieving. She was put into the gifted program, and immediately wanted out. Apart from it drawing attention she didn't want, it was a bunch of stupid, pointless projects. Unfortunately, the school is under the impression gifted kids have a hard time when moving up a grade. My wife and i think they're too dumb to understand that when her and i were moved up a grade, we already didn't fit in. When you're that far ahead, you will never fit in.
It definitely feels cringy to use it in reference to myself; the expectations were heavy to carry. thank you for another great video full of insights
I was not put into gifted classes, I was lucky to be in regular classes. Looking back, I realize the categorization of people was a precursir to things lije "essential jobs" and non essential. Just more ways to create "other" divisions among people.
I can’t be the only one who gets all misty eyed when the exit music plays?
When I was in third grade, in 1973, my school separated out a few of us “gifted“ students for different activities. The next year, when I started fourth grade I was placed in a “accelerated learning“ classroom in a different school. We could go to this accelerated program if our parents would drive us to this school. This was part of the public school system in Wichita, Kansas. With all of the aircraft factories, and the associated large population of engineers, Wichita had many “gifted“ children. We were the autistic children of autistic adults.
That program lasted through sixth grade. At that point, we were returned to what we referred to as “general population“ where we occasionally had accelerated individual classes, such as science, mathematics, or history. This continued for the remainder of my public schooling.
I know from looking back that this experience was traumatic for many of my peers. There were traumatic things about it for me as well. One of these students gifts was the ability to be cruel. I do not think my classmates fared any better because they attended , a gifted school. I know for some they never recovered.
I think most of those students were autistic. We didn’t get any help for dealing with the challenges of autism. Those of us who succeeded did so by using our intellectual capability to drag us, out of dire situations, our executive function deficits brought us to.
Recently, my partner who holds a PhD in neuroscience was shocked at the limits to my executive function. She asked “how can you be so incredibly successful without the ability to plan“? Then she realized that I was successful because of the brute strength of my intellectual abilities. I don’t have to spend a month, solving a problem. I can solve it, pulling a single all nighter. My sons are like that as well. I think she sees us very differently now.
Thank you for the video. I appreciate that you moved the microphone away from your face when drinking your cuppa. I suspect this was to avoid triggering those with misophonia. Thank you.
Courtesy costs nothing, does it😊 Thanks for noticing.
@@AutistamaticI hugely appreciate it, it makes me smile every time you have a sip, rather than squeam and shudder. #misophonia #thoughtful 💕
I didn’t need to be singled out more as a child, than i allready was. I needed support and to have my burdens made smaller, not to have them increase while being pushed. I needed to be seen an valued for my personality traits, not my abilities. I needed to be loved for being me, not for achievements or how invissible i could become.
I consider my ‘gift’ to be introspection and reflection, and thanks to that, i beat depression, bettered myself, and would today consider myself ‘succesfull’ on my own terms.
I still would prefer knowing how to ask for help - the one thing I still can’t.
I am only succesfull in my own terms, not in my family expectations of me. They look down on my steady job in a bookstore, because they can’t use it to win any bragging rights. And I am secretly happy about that.
My small revenge.
‘Giftednes’ ruined my childhood.
This hit home and stirred up childhood memories from the 1970's. This topic comes up from time to time in my own head and brings up a lot of resentment and anger. I was told at a young age that I was "gifted" and that I would be part of the "movers and shakers", "an innovator", etc. I'm 58 and finally got my autism diagnosis a few months ago. I'm a washed up man living on disability since my late 30's, not a mover or shaker and now I'm finally understanding why thanks to content providers such as yourself and the other people of the community (other viewers) who comment on this content of neurodivergency. I rarely ever comment on videos in general, I'll think about commenting then avoid it because of a fear of engagement (how autism affects me most of the time). Thank you for your contribution to this community and something to talk about in my next therapy session.
Thank you for commenting today💜
"Movers & shakers"? Yup - that was one of them😉
Thanks for speaking up. It’s valuable and I’m always scared to as well.
The TV show Malcom In The Middle was particularly based on how labeling someone gifted can lead to social ostracization.
I think a lot of Aspies could relate to Malcom, I know I sure did while growing up.
I loved MITM when it first broadcast, and enjoyed it all over again a year or 2 ago with my wife. It was a great show & yes I still find it very relatable now. Those school memories never fade.
It depends on the schools definition of "gifted". In the schools I went to "gifted" only meant high productivity and emotionaly self sufficient , so rich kids who didn't have traumatic childhoods or disability, not that the kids were any more intelligent. I hated the separation because I would have loved the specialized classes, but my skills were so spikey I was often stuck in the lower tracks bored as hell, with teachers expecting me to teach the others in the classroom, because they knew the work was below my abilities. I did well in testing but, but homework was impossible.
I love your points. I hadn't really thought about it but my dad's work was itinerant so I moved between schools a lot. I was REALLY lucky that at my first school they identified my situation and gave me specialised help to accelerate (in maths). However I definitely experienced what you say at other schools and it really bothered me. I think I probably never thought about it the way you do because my brain was anchored to "the system works" because of my earliest experience.
I was labeled "gifted" early in grade school and at first I loved it because I was instantly singled out for bullying in 2 schools now and the "gifted" class had maybe 10 students, most of them older than I was {k-8grade, so 5-13} so it was a safe place.
My parents were just like "ok we knew you were smart, they say really smart. So I guess you better have straight As from now on then." It's like I was suddenly on my own - I was gifted so somehow that meant I could get myself up and to school. I didn't need help with homework or tests. Worse, all of a sudden I was supposed to be "above being bullied" somehow. It was always "oh, they're jealous because you're so smart and you're going to go to a fancy college and be successful while have to work for a living. You should be the bigger person and ignore it, or understand their pain or blah blah blah." While very few people were being diagnosed Autistic then, never mind girls like me, "gifted" became the reason/excuse for all my clearly Autistic signs/struggles. "Awww, she's just a little weird/shy/strange/sensitive/withdrawn... because she's too smart. The curse of genius, right?!"
So, as a little 6 or 7 year old girl, I learned to mask my intelligence in front of my peers, make excuses for the poor ways others treated me, be too independent, hide my struggles and feel intense shame for them. It was like "Oh, look, we've discovered you're bright. Now, go do something amazing." But I didn't do anything amazing, I was having major burnout by 7th grade, which I masked because "what've you got to be stressed/worn out about? All you do is go to school. It's not like you do anything." Well, I mean I'm like 10 and y'all keep treating me like I'm supposed to be an amalgamation of Einstein and Jung and Da Vinci, wtf?
The gifted program was for smart kids. Most of the people in the gifted program. Were havers of autism without the intellectual disability, but didnt realize it was autism until they had kids.
Quinn, “Young, Gifted & Lost” is just on a whole other level. The quality of content you’re creating is absolutely mind-blowing. I mean, 22 minutes felt like five-I was completely immersed! You have this incredible way of explaining things, weaving in cultural, intellectual, and psychological insights alongside your personal experiences, and it all just flows so naturally.
I also love your catchphrase, “I’m Quinn, and I’m autistic.” It’s such a grounding reminder of how central autistic identity is to who we are, and it’s so reassuring to hear it from you. Seeing how your brain works through your art and commentary is such a reflection of how my brain works, and it’s just so reassuring and inspiring. You’re a master of your craft, and it’s an absolute pleasure to hyperfixate on your videos. Can’t wait for the next one! Thank you so much for what you do, Quinn!
Thank you Sam, and best of luck with your own channel👍
@@AutistamaticDo you have a normal heart rate for example if you get upset or experience fear or are surprised does your heart rate go up or stay neutral? I'm asking this because people with ASPD or Psychopathy have lower resting heart rates and they rarely go up is this the same for autistic people?
@@Autistamaticnever mind I got the info I needed👍
I think it showed some insight that my parents made sure we didn't take any IQ tests, ignored "gifted" programs, and later ignored Mensa and similar organizations, etc. My cousins who had taken IQ tests and/or were in the gifted programs (and later joined Mensa) were insufferable. Even so, I was always being compared to my supposed potential. But I think my brothers got the worst side of it when they were compared to me by my previous teachers and were told ridiculous things (like that they were disappointments...)
I still feal arrogant when I describe myself as smart at what I feal are appropriate times, e.g. when meeting a new Dr, counselor, getting my autism diagnosis or being there for diagnoses of my autistic grandchildren.
On the other hand having my granddaughter in the 2E programs at school was a very good thing overall. It probably helps that (like me) she doesn't care about what other people think of her.
Thank you Quinn,
As a younger man it was important to me that others knew how intelligent I was. It wasn't because I wanted to be better than anyone else, but because I needed to feel that I had a place that wasn't at the bottom of the pile. With not being married, social, interested in sports or current affairs this limited my input, so I tried to make up for it in my own way. It took me a while to realise that my efforts only made things worse. Someone bought me a pin badge ' When you're as great as I am, it's hard to be humble.' Seeing it written down brought it home to me.
These days I keep my gob shut and try to keep my opinions to myself and may help out if asked, and for that, I get more respect.
Hope you don't mind, but I'd like a coffee and a hobnob next week. Cheers. 🧔 👍
A hobnob, Bob?
😂
I do like a bit of alliteration.
And a hobnob😉
@@Autistamatic me too. Fancy an Arrowroot Thin, Quinn. 😁
I'm an old fart. I realize I have used the word in reference to myself with very obvious quote marks recently. I guess I thought I was making an ironic joke, like everyone is aware of how crappy it was to be isolated from other kids and over-praised on the one hand, and being told that we were lazy, selfish, rude and arrogant when we displayed our social differences, our attentional differences, our literal thinking or our need for honesty and directness. I guess some people would think it was great growing up and being told you were "the next Picasso" and never coming close to meeting expectations. So that's what I mean when I say I grew up "gifted". A very niche experience that it looks like many of your viewers know well.
Thank you for helping me to understand how other people who were not aware if that context might interpret that as a flex.
Ugh I probably sounded like I was bragging just then, darn it!
@@katharinegates2917 I think most people reading your comment know where you're coming from. I certainly do😊
Reminding me.. I haven't heard from anyone about their MENSA membership in a good while.. which is nice
There are much, much better communities for HEPGs than MENSA, which is based on dominator culture white male culture. Just no.
Technialy I stored high enough in IQ test to get into mensa and for a quite long time I wanted to join mensa becaue I was really curious ahout how people I would meet there would be, since inteligence measurment and reaserching highly inteligent people are my special interests, but now I'm geniuely afraid of them 😬
I was born in 1971, in NJ, USA. I was placed in “gifted and talented” in an early grade, and stayed in G&T until graduation. So much teasing. So much stress. I learned to just be as quiet as possible, hide as much as possible and do what I could do excel academically and move on.
I have anxiety and imposter syndrome a lot as a 53 year old.
Thank you for being here.
Yup, Quinn. Right on the money. At least for our generation. My father is a retired teacher. I was assessed as a child in grades 2 and 3. When my Dad saw my IQ score he very carefully hid it from me, the other teachers and refused people who wanted to do things like 'accelerate' (move to a higher grade) or put me in other gifted programs. He realized that my social/physical development was behind enough that would have become a disaster. In fact, I decided to repeat Grade 6 despite passing because my deficits. (Ironically enough Math was one of them. I say Ironic because I have a Master's in Physics.)
What follows is not victim mentality but documented cases. My Primary and Secondary education were heavily marked by bullying, ostracization, genuine attempts on my life, depression, anxiety, malicious accusations, bad luck and good grades.
In the Physics department, most of the people there (student and prof alike) were some flavor of gifted. I could be myself and most people were 'OK' with it. Except the Department Head who cut off my funding and proclaimed that what I was working on (Astronomy -- Black Holes and High Mass X-ray Binaries) wasn't *real* science because there was no lab component. My social deficits keep me out of the workforce and education now. I'm mostly a recluse. Gotta take the whole package.
13:55 I was 'honored' with "Severely Emotionally Disturbed" since I was two years old.
Put into Special Ed with other 'gifted' kids, and there was no individual special care plan... It was a bunch of bullies, who suddenly find themselves to have fewer targets in a small class (target: me).
Saying anything positive about yourself (in spite of it being true) is more harshly punished than actually committing acts of selfishness or condescension, behaving with explicit arrogance. It's all about words, not facts. Most people (especially among those with Non-Autistic Spectrum Disorder) construct their reality based on the terms used, and social assumptions that we all are supposed to accept, just because.
It's like that everywhere, but I lived in Britain for 10 years and, wow, mate, that is the most anti-autistic society I've ever lived in. One is punished for being sincere everywhere I've been (only within Europe , I must say), but Britain ranks top, by far. They consider that being "polite" is saying "excuse me", even if you say it with a threatening tone. "Sorry" goes together with an elbow at your stomach, you can hardly tell which went first. A smile in most Britons' face means as much as a donation to charity from a multinational.
Thanks for your videos, mate. I found out about my being autistic just a few months ago, and I am 45, thanks to you, to a large extent. I also dislike people saying I have "altas capacidades". As if not everyone was "gifted" at something, compared to others.
Hugs!!!
I wasnt "gifted", I grew up in a fairly wealthy town where most children were well above average in intellectual skills. I was clearly different though. I am a self harm stimmer, so when I was a really young child, Kindergarten and 1st grade, I would slam my head into the desk when I struggled to get out the frustration. I would make noises or do things that frequently had my teachers punish me. I dont know/remember how I stopped but my mom mentions feeling guilty for breaking my spirit.
I am just glad I found a friend in middle school who was like me in our speech and mental fluidity. We are still great friends 18 years later.
Still learning so much about autism and frequently I see things that bring back either repressed or lost memories of my youth.
Even if you're not put into a "gifted" program, if your teachers or other adults make you feel like you're exceptionally intelligent - (or you see your spikes in skills that you don't even have to try for) and then you run into struggles that *are in the troughs, it's brutal. Like slamming face first into a brick wall.
I have ADHD and not only was I labeled as "gifted" but people saw me as such despite my parents never telling anyone about my "diagnosis", not even me. (I only found out I had an actual diagnosis later)
I really have a conflicting relationship with the label, because on one hand it actually describes pretty well how I was seen by everyone. But also I fully relate to the feelings of pressure and failure that you talked about.
I do agree that the label is generally bad, but would no label be better? My experience is that I could never escape it, people just saw potential in me and marked me accordingly, even if they didn't use the word "gifted".
Was I actually "gifted"? Maybe. I was always seen as smart, eloquent and talented at many things. I was also considered bad at others, but generally people agreed that my skills far more than compensated for it.
What I do know is that I really didn't feel gifted, but rather cursed. I was depressed, unrelatable, eloquent to the point of being insufferable (debating me was just extenuating) and terrified of not meeting expectations. I felt so alone. My mom often says that she could see the smile fading away from my face with each passing picture, but she didn't know what to do.
I often wonder how much of me being "gifted" is actually because I was seen as such. From very young my parents and teachers incentivized my hyperfocus on complex things. And the moment I became aware of my expectations I started pushing myself too. Am I a self fulfilled prophecy?
I often see the opposite in my sister. She's smart, but her brand of ADHD (inattentive) and being in my shadow actually deeply affected her. She struggled with math in similar ways as me, but where I was pressured and convinced that I should be good at them, she was made to feel stupid and broken, like she shouldn't even try. I often wonder what would happen if she had been treated as gifted.
Excellerent class for me. Now I "waste my talents."
Adding myself to the list of people who had a negative experience after being labelled “gifted” - I pretty much had most of these happen.
Just my perspective ( as an aspie), I've honestly never heard an adult autistic person say "I am gifted"; they always say "I was in the gifted program". I think this is because people in the gifted programs, at least around the same time periods, tend to have a certain set of shared experiences we can relate to each other with. If someone announces "I am a baseball player" vs "I played baseball" I would probably sense a similar level of arrogance. And I think the general revulsion in these kind of statements was captured well once by ricky gervalis with "so fucking what"?
Imagine being on a plane and the pilot passes out and someone shouts over the intercom "can anyone fly the plane" and you were to shout out "I am gifted". You are now obligated in some fashion to elaborate on how you being gifted means you can fly the plane, UNLESS of course you just are using it as stand in for general superiority. "Nah, but I am really good at chess" is going to probably get you thrown out plane. But here is the adjacent problem, I can not think of one thing that being "gifted" (or even saying, I have a spikey skill set), would have any relevance to in a general discussion. The autist who reacts is more likely to infodump their obsession with flight simulator or something and approach it that way, which lends itself to practical utility in the problem.
Whenever my parents' generation said someone was gifted, I felt it was their term for being clever but also disabled in some way, so it has always felt patronisingly ableist to me. But wait, there's rather a weird link with the term gifted - it was first coined by Francis Galton in 1869, and he was also the first person to document his own experience of aphantasia (although the word was coined later). He was also a pioneer of eugenics. Eew. No wonder it gives me strange vibes.
The times I was asked if I was gifted (usually by adults) were invariably when I said something unusual rather than showed some aptitude.
I think of the opposite. I grew up in the era that Gifted and Talented was used, the opposite would be giftless and talentless.
Yup, I have baggage with the word from my time in my school's program during the 80s-90s. Every neuro-divergent friend I have seems to have been given the label during their own childhood and none like it much.
I was in Elementary school in the 90's and got placed in a "Gifted and Talented" class. I didn't realize what it was in the moment so this was extremely informative. Thank you Quinn.
nah, i was put in gifted classes since 2nd grade, and i still call myself that when appropriate in conversation. but i only use "gifted" in meaning that i was in the gifted program at school.
Whenever i try to find any ressource how to identify a difference between austitic/Adhd and gifted the websites just keep saying "ask a professional" TELL ME YOUR SECRETS
My working memory (ADHD) significantly lowered my score tho apparently ive got mostly gifted and even some incredible scores, leading me to being just under the gifted threshold so i didnt get to experience those institutions, and the high expectations put on me by others i dont think met up to my own expectations heh
I dont think the label has much of a place nowadays, its misleading
In second grade, my teachers realized I was “accelerated”. The following year, in 3rd grade, I was placed in a school for such kids. We were doing up to 9th grade work. I was only there just over a year before we moved to a different city where such schools weren’t available. It’s interesting to me that this video popped up. I’ve been watching videos about gifted adults and wondering what the difference is in the way I present as autistic. Listening to Quinn, I feel like in the late 70s when we didn’t know about autism, gifted was the same thing - at least for me - by a different name. Finding out a year ago, at nearly 54 years old, that I am autistic was shocking but not surprising. I went through the feelings of upset that so many of us do about grieving a life that may have been somewhat different had we known. Though 3rd grade is a touchstone for me, I never understood it. My family certainly didn’t call me gifted or treat me differently. Today, I feel like I could swap names, gifted for autistic. Interestingly, I feel more aligned with autistic than gifted. Partly bc of the label and being humble, but bc autism is more encompassing and descriptive of my experiences. By the way, I hated the school. I cut all the time. Yes, in third grade. It was too overwhelming an environment. Too loud. Too bright with the lights. Changing of classes. And much greater expectations of me under the harsher physical environment. I was relieved to move so I could escape it. I did well academically, but inside it was killing me. Since I couldn’t speak my truth about it, I just cut school a lot. Anyway, thank you, Quinn, for the video. It helped to put a few more pieces together.
I'm 75 now, self-diagnosed two years ago. At around 6 I was labelled gifted, not autistic..... not sure autism was on anybody's mind then.... skipped grades, reached highschool at age 12. I was a loner, obviously. My highschool teachers kept pointing me in the direction of leadership roles like School President (turned down), Captain of the Cheerleaders (I was pretty bad at it) and Valedictorian of my graduating class (it was awful!) Thank you, Quinn. I finally have an answer to why none of that worked out. I mean that sincerely. I'm just beginning to understand myself in so many ways and that feels so good.
I was placed in a gifted school program for one year. It was a life saver. At the same time I went to counselling. That was a stupid waste of time.
I always thought that being "gifted" indicated what *kind* of person you were, like using the term neurodivergent now, and I personally love that it's one rare occasion we don't have to self deprecate.
Yah, the "gifted" family of compliments is something i make every attempt to avoid. It always seems to come packaged with comments about not living up to potential. I have many perennials that people are very happy I don't explore.
it's denial and cope. the whole your 'not broken! your magic! '
I feel it dismissing and that it puts the onus back on me to fix my own problems.
It never resolves in me getting useful help.
This video made me a bit sad. I was diagnosed with ASD as an adult, and I was put in a "Gifted Program" in school as a child, after an IQ test. And while there is probably a connection between those two things, I never saw it that way growing up. Yes I knew I was "odd," and I was certainly bullied & beaten up as an undiagnosed Autistic child going to public school, but I never saw these things as endemic to being "gifted." I saw the bullying/violence I experienced as a failing of the dominant culture, growing up in the inner city, where intelligence & "nerdiness" were reviled instead of celebrated. And when adults said I was gifted, it was a compliment & a relief to me -- like, "Oh good, at least I have THAT going for me. Whew!" (Of course I don't directly call MYSELF gifted lol. I just say "I was in the gifted program" which is a tad more demure ;) ).
I'd also like to mention that not every child in the gifted program I attended was Autistic, not by a long shot. Most of them were very NT, except for a handful of us. Which is probably why I don't see a one-to-one correlation between being gifted, and being Autistic, even as I acknowledge the overlap. To me, "gifted" just means high IQ, regardless of disability or neurotype.
All of that said, I very much respect Quinn's personal experience & opinion on the matter, and I'm very sorry that so many in the comments seem to also have had bad experiences being labeled "gifted" children. I too have had terrible childhood experiences, including violent bullying, unrealistic expectations, and harsh judgment. And regardless of whether it was because we were labeled "gifted," or because we are Autistic, or just because other people can be crappy, I do relate to that
I'd be disappointed in anyone having a problem with that. When it's an incoming observation from a third party, then of course it's a compliment and should be taken that way, IMO.
It only becomes problematic when we say it about ourselves or, to a lesser degree, our kids. I'm glad that people recognise your strengths, whatever words they use😊
@@Autistamatic Thank you so much for your kind and nuanced reply! I'm relieved my experience isn't totally alien. And yes, it's true that no one likes a braggart, and it's a good reminder not to speak that way about oneself
I can imagine "wasted potential" being written on my gravestone
I was, and still somehow am, pretty pop-culturaly stereotypical "gifted student". From one hand, I was really intelligent, analitical, inventive, curious and intelectually passionate person, but from the other, I was severly depressed, seriously socially incompetent, and struggling with surviving everyday life on daily basics
Thanks Quinn. I was never labeled as ‘gifted’, but in working class Australia in the 60s, there was always the expectation from my family and school that I was different because I was smart. The pressure was awful. I felt my differences, but didn’t ever feel very clever. Just a feeling of shell shock from the constant pressure of expectations and overwhelm. I can understand your feelings of the word gifted. I also think ‘potential’ is pretty awful too.
I had an Elementary school teacher bully me on class over being "gifted..." It ruined my life in ways that I don't really need to describe to "those who know." All because she was incredulous that I could perfectly recall the entirety of a third grade text, the beginning of which she used as a free writing prompt, and to me just writing the original text was The Truth and I couldn't write anything steering away from it...
I was recently diagnosed in my 30’s. In around 1st-2nd grade, I was labeled as “gifted”. School was a hard environment for me to learn in. The exact quote they said to my parents was “He’s the smartest kid we’ve ever evaluated, but we dont know what’s wrong with him.”
So to my parents, I was highly intelligent for my age, but was broken somehow and my dad and doctors just spent time pumping me up on drugs for years in order to “fix” me so I’d be like other kids.
I was told “you’re smart, you dont have any excuses. Just do what you’re supposed to. You just like being lazy and difficult. It’s not that hard, you can focus in school, you just don’t want to.”
I would try to express my struggles and why things were hard and I was labeled lazy (many times), difficult, stubborn, an a**hole, naive, was told I was a loser and a bum and asked why I couldn’t just be like my cousins and other kids at school. I was seen as the family embarrassment and faced lots of consequences, physical, emotional, and mental abuse. I had to become who/what everyone else wanted me to be. It wasn’t until I found out I’m Autistic this late in life where I’ve finally been trying to be my real self. It’s been hard because after all this time, I sit here thinking “well, who am I? Do I even know or remember? Is it okay to be authentic? What do I actually like? Is it okay to finally speak up, defend myself and advocate for myself? Is it too late? Can I ever be myself?”
All I know is I’ve been getting back into music and playing my basses a lot more. Music, and musical instruments are my special interest. I’ve been growing my collection of instruments and relearning a lot of them.
I was in metal bands when I was younger, but my abusive dad would always find ways to discourage me, tell me how bad I was, how I should give it up, he would keep me from my friends and band meetings. He would criticize my playing while I was still trying to learn before I developed any real skills.
One thing my dad did was use my special interests against me. If he found out I really loved and enjoyed something, he would keep me from it with false promises of letting me do it if I just did x,y, and z. I would do what he wanted, then laugh at me say things like “you actually thought I was serious? That was the only way to get you to do it! What makes you think you deserve that? You shouldn’t be into that stuff, it’s stupid. You’re nothing like me, there’s no way you’re my kid. If you were, you’d do all these things!” Stuff like that. In a lot of ways, he was trying to relieve his youth vicariously through me.
He died from a drug overdose in my early 20’s. While I was sad because it was my father, in many ways, I felt so much relief knowing he could never treat me like that again.
My wife is trying to help be get over some left over trauma. I wont even do a lot for myself because it was beat into my mind that anything I do for myself, even for my own health and well being is bad, selfish, and greedy. She has to push me to not be like that, especially after my diagnosis, which came after 7 years of us being together. She’s been patient and understanding of why I am the way I am because of the abuse and trauma I endured.
She’s been trying to help me not feel these negative things about myself. Like I have a dream bass I’ve been looking at for over 10
Years. She always told me to get it for myself and I have every reason for why I couldn’t or shouldn’t…basically all the same stuff my dad made me believe. She saw me looking at it again a couple of months ago. She ended up going and finding the brand new upgraded model that came out recently and bought it for me as a surprise gift. I cried so much because no one has ever really done anything like that for me.
She said she sees how much I love music and playing instruments and she’s seen me look at that bass for almost a decade and knew I wouldn’t ever buy it for myself, so she bought it. She said all she wanted in return was to have a horror movie night together.
I’m realizing how, in a lot of ways, I’m abusing myself the same way my dad did because that’s what I’ve grown to feel I deserve in life.
Masterful.
The tale you told of your experience is a mirror of my time at school. Led me into the inevitable senses of self doubt and inadequacy.
I was pre-'gifted' designation in school, but oh the 'potential' I had and failed to live up to! My cringiest words are 'potential' and 'If only ...' A few years ago my mother gave me all my old report cards. Reading them was so emotional and I cried for the young innocent I was being burdened with so many expectations, and being given no credit for the sheer will it took to endure existing. I was about 10 when I first started fantasizing about being dead.
For my mother, her word of burden was 'precocious' (1940-50's England). In her world it was the worst thing to be, especially if you're female.
Your discussion didn't include the burden of responsibility that parents had to bear for how kids turned out and showed up. The blank slate theory of newborns was pretty popular in my parent's child rearing years. 'Gifted' was probably a relief for parents who felt the social burden, of 'You created this, there for it's your fault' scenarios.
Even without autism applied to my children, (it was ADHD diagnoses), I lower the expectations on my children's outcomes, and often said to other adults and teachers, '"I don't care if they end up digging ditches, as long as they're good people" in defense of the spikey skill sets my own children displayed and I was expected to answer for. "I see where they got it from!" was one of my favourite compliments, Lol.
You know, I was also diagnosed in 1978 at the age of 9. Like you, here in the United States I was branded as 'gifted' and was singled out by malicious people (bullies, etc) due to my difference. My diagnosis was from a psychologist who was making waves for their research into autism in the late 1970s. Much, if not most, common knowledge of autism at the time was of those who had to be institutionalized and since I was 'high functioning', basically there was nothing they could do. "No soup for you!"
Great video as always, Quinn. I've not really come across this before, sounds like a huge amount of pressure to put on a child. Love the do the opposite of what Sheldon would do- great advice to live by 😄
I think Nina Simone would disagree 😂 but seriously it's context, as an artist it's a compliment, as an autistic it's a curse
Thanks for this video Quinn. I've felt this same way about being "gifted" since I was 8 years old and given that label back in 1983.
Well said, I like this approach a lot. I liked the differentiation and multiple angled "black and white". Heh, the final sentences😆
It was helpful to remind me of how easily others can perceive I have some sort of superiority complex by what I say. I have been known to blurt out agreement with facts people spoke about me that I later, after processing the conversation, considered maybe it was meant to be a compliment. So I may have come off as rude when I only agreed or said "yes, I have been told that." Sorry to everyone I may have offended over the decades because really we all have strengths and challenges, successes and failures!
I was labeled "gifted" in my youth, but didn't think much of it- I was just happy my best friend was also in the group!
Off the bat this reminds me of people hearing my records and saying- meaning to complement me - “ oh you have a fantastic voice! “. I have an average voice that I have trained and worked and exercised for my entire life. No one says Jimi Hendrix had “good hands”- that’s not where the musical inspiration and the skill to express it through one’s instrument is born. My speaking voice is gravely and often monotone - my singing voice isn’t a gift in that I did nothing to deserve it - it Hendrix my garden that I planted and tended w the help of countless others and opportunities I pursued.
I was in the “A/P” gifted classes at school w my bestie. It provided cover for my autism and was less boring for me as far as that goes. Ok back to the video - I get stirred by the topic early in. Thx for always great content.
I'm intrigued now🤔 Anywhere I might hear that singing voice?
10:50 - Perfect timing of sipping the tea(?)/coffee(?) to let that "pre-sipping"-thought sink in.
Yup, was even good enough for Mensa, which I now know is a complete joke. Thanks for explaining so well, now I know why I get called arrogant when I’m asking questions.
I was the only one in my family who was a few testing points short of Mensa. We had a family friend who was part of it and she found the people and the org snotty and awful so we all got (thankfully) turned off about joining it and it was frequently pointed out to me how I wouldn’t have qualified anyhow. Now that I’m old (65) I can reflect on all our lives and be at peace about where mine landed and see that those extra points and the highest of high iq narrative did not make their lives turn out better in the end. The shadow side of pride is shame so i was spared a portion of both w regard to the high iq rating.
So touched to hear everyone’s experience in these comments. 🙏
I love the pauses in your presentation, rather than being quick cuts. Gives me time to process what I've just heard and makes it easier for me to pay attention.
Whether you be gifted or not, being giving is always a noble pursuit!
I also don’t use it, except for word plays. I don’t find words offensive, however I find it particularly unhelpful! The effect it has on assumptions is very big!
CHOOSE YOUR WORDS CAREFULLY! Even better, don’t burden someone with a STATE adjective, gift (lol) them with a recognition of their ACTION verbs!
Ok thx Quinn you are such a Giving individual!!! Thank you for all your efforts and skillful means!!!
(Oops just broke my own rule lol, you have the OPTION but not the OBLIGATION of taking this Giving adjective! Results may vary!)
Although I refrain from using it, I do, in fact, don't mind people saying that they're gifted. I see it as a simple, factual observation. Why beat around the bush and wait for people to eventually ask if you're gifted?
But, that's just me.
Meaningless. The test they gave me in grade school that SHOULD have recognized me as autistic, instead made me “gifted,” which REALLY made me look like I “wasn’t living up to my potential.”
Offensive, not necessarily. Scattershot and meaningless? Definitely.
I was called "gifted" as a child. I thought to myself many times that "it's not a gift, it's a curse." The course of my life has certainly not been at the top of any career or achievement level that might be expected if the only thing you look at is a test score and compare it to income, job seniority, or other cultural expectations.
I'd rather find my own place in live and be happy with it, which is where I spent most of my career. At least when I could actually focus on the work I liked rather then being expected to be a "leader."
As for the term "gifted," to me it means no more or less then any other inborn characteristic like being tall, or having natural strength, or coordination, or musical talent, or exceptional eyesight, etc. It's a starting point to build something you want, not a natural superiority. You still have to put in the work to be what you want, and that's more important then any initial talents or "gifts."
Now if only we as a society could do a better job of encouraging all people to learn what's best for them and to pursue those goals effectively.
Here, here!
I've never encountered anyone even suggesting that it could be offensive. Its a term that comes with a lot of baggage and expectations (and not a lot of support), and as someone who was marked as "gifted" at school, it really seems like it was just an excuse to avoid exploring further and giving real support. If school had given equal attention to the places I was struggling as they did to proudly displaying my exceptional talent in a handful of subjects, I think I'd have done a lot better psychologically speaking. I never got support for my social difficulties, or my lack of emotional control. I never got additional or different teaching for subjects where I wasn't naturally talented.
It would be better to use the term similarly to how we refer to the autistic "spiky skillset". Sure, I'm naturally talented in certain areas, but I'm also naturally useless in others. Most "gifted" people aren't the genius polymaths we're assumed to be. We're just more extreme in our talents and inabilities. But, the term does imply that we're just good at everything. Which is why I don't use it to describe myself, even though my teachers did.
So, problematic? Definitely. Offensive? Not at all, I would consider if maybe the people saying it's offensive aren't entirely serious.
I've been asked it personally a couple of times & I of course enquired as to why they asked. IMO - it's probably just misunderstandings given a new cultural context. So many terms are picking up the "offensive" tag of late that I think it's led some folks to misinterpret the negative responses they get when they say "gifted" (or whatever equivalent they favour). They get a a bad reaction & think they've said something offensive, because that's so common these days - to put our foot in it - when in reality they just came across as a bit full of themselves.
About 95 a sixth grader in the emotional support class was invited to the gifted program after failing the year and being listed on the "Honor Roll" earlier the same year. The teacher frantically explained that it was because 50% of the grade was taken from homework and said student refused to hand in anything but, passed all of the tests. The student declined and graduated to middle school for the next year with failing grade in all but math science and gym, coincidentally having those classes under different instructors.
I find 'Prodigy' gets me through unnoticed. ;)
I never got diagnosed in school. Had to work it out for myself. Teachers alway thought I was smarter than I let on and was just lazy so I never got the help I actually needed. Although I can never work out if it was because the school was really bad, or if there was too many students, teachers weren't trained properly or racism - I'm cournish but grew up in wales and let me tell you it doesn't matter if you're fluent in welsh they'll always see you as english and will only want you to leave. Used to get bullied alot but my perants insisded that I ignore them. Even if I was getting beaten. I think the way schools are run leaves alot to be desired. For me, being "smart" only ever held me back. I'm told it's different now but I see there was a stabbing in my old school so I guess it hasn't changed that much. Left school with no qualifications just trauma.
Are there going to be any W.W.S.C.D. bracelets sold in your YT store soon?
No bracelets as yet, but apparel, cushions, phone covers, caps....
www.teepublic.com/t-shirt/67506389-wwscd-what-would-sheldon-cooper-do
great video, Quinn
if I remember correctly, I was labeled gifted in 2nd or 3rd grade (early 90s) and enrolled in a spanish class. one day on my way to that class, I dropped all my class stuff and had a meltdown and quit. I don't remember it ever coming up again, but maybe yhe label was on my record
I was born in 2000 and relate to so much of this! Clearly little has changed :/
The term probably triggers the majority because because it is hard for them to imagine such a different way of relating to the world. I imagine they just think it means 'more clever', which understandably might annoy them. What they don't realise is the context - the tremendous difficulties that can come with having a high IQ, high capacity for abstract thought and sensitivity to ones surroundings. A different word for it would probably be helpful.
I was not identified as 2e until I was diagnosed months before I started a post-graduate certificate program at the age of 40. There was a university staff member that advised me on it. She told me to quit my job and make multiple, detailed calendars. She was probably right, but quitting work and effectively making and using multiple calendars wasn’t possible given my circumstances.
My allistic brother was identified as gifted as a kid. My mom later told me that she didn’t find it fair that my brother had more learning opportunities because of how he scored on an IQ test at the age of 6. It was very validating to hear that from a parent. I did feel like I was missing out. My brother did very well in school and was well liked. I was actually a stronger student in multiple subjects, but he was more consistent and had that elusive EQ (social intelligence). In my experience, being neurodivergent excluded me from GATE.
Exactly.... The "gifted" have unlimited support. They can screw off
Yes, "gifted" can hurt. It was really confusing for me to hear "Why are you so stupid if you're supposed to be so smart?" the two first years in primary school (my first teacher deeply disliked the two bilingual kids in her class - my best friend and me were also the two who could already read). I had been tested by psychologists so I could start school one year early, and all it got me was seven years of relentless bullying. #AutDHD
And after beating it into you that you aren't allowed to brag, please prepare this résumé.
It goes over a little easier if you speak in third-person.
Very interesting topic… it’s difficult when you’re considered gifted in school, your peers often get envious, and the last thing you want is the attention. So you try to perform “worse”, to not receive the attention or the expectations. To perform in matters that interest is easy, and the contrary is true about matters that I find boring. But paradoxically still I had to push through (with successive burnouts) to at the same time continue receiving a “balanced” amount of praise, which because of RSD I now was dependant on. A bad spiral, because the expectations put on me by teachers and family were so high, that if I again ever performed only a little less than excellent, I immediately got negative feedback, which my rejection sensitive soul couldn’t take either..
My experience is quite different...I've always been shy (I now realise that may be as a result of undiagnosed autism) especially when I was younger. But the ridicule came anyway. I think people are off the mark a little bit when they make arguments like "people are justifiably angry because you keep rubbing it in their faces" and are making a bit of a straw man argument, as my experience is that people hate you just for the virtue of "being gifted" for want of a better word, regardless of the identity you chose. As an adult I chose to identify as that as a way to take ownership of the hate being thrown at me. At least that's what I feel in relation to whether we should adjust ourselves for neurotypicals. It just sounds like anothe claim of "they're not the problem, you're the problem" which the emerging discussion of double empathy shows is one of the primary ways that autistic people are oppressed.
Although I did actually like your main point about how it made you feel like you weren't good enough. I guess I didn't have that because my parents never put any value on succeeding for better or worse. I'll certainly think about that when I'm talking about my own son.
Thanks Quinn ❤
That sounded like Public Image's first single, hahaha.
It's funny, I was bullied in school and teachers said, oh, yes, but some day they will be like a great entrepeneur boss who buillies their colleagues or sth
Yeah! I did watch a bit of that series this week by accident. I had a dream after and reflection.
I'm rehearsing with cuban musicians and they put the TV below their current activities. While I had a piano class, the TV was on, with colombian series and... the Big Band Theory. I realized how maybe on TV contents are produced using impressions about "other" people, showing X person as different, "othered" because of this or that, sometimes conduct differences about which maybe people don't know a lot in an emic (not anemic, but anthropologically centered on the person) perspective. But this "otherness is quite - exploited?- used commercially in a systematic manner.
In this program, using prerecorded laughs, several characters talked about having certain social difficulties and it could be noted, for example, when Sheldon spoke publicly.
That was a 'smooth' and distracted watch anyway. We had lunch then, so could watch with more attention (but wouldn't want to). They changed the program, in this other series, some detectives classified people according to some "personality disorders" (god forbid they chose to label someone with the PD I was diagnosed with).
This divided attention about those TV themes started when an ad showcased a piano montuno (I'm learning salsa piano with the cuban musicians), and it was paired with "Betty La fea", somehow linking salsa with the "ugly", "othered" and maybe even g-word ("intelligent but unattractive secretary", wikipedia says) character in the series?
I guess that this multiple layers of information... nobody cares about them and rejects them, throws tham away. They're important for me anyway, so I'm maybe a epistemological scavenger... and forgot a bit of how to play the montunos 😅
Bad useage, bad associations, bad history, made both in ignorance and in malice. But it doesn't have to be wrong, and it doesn't have to be cruel. But a new perspective won't heal memories of deep scars.
I want to take the word back. I don't think we can, not really. Or that we even should. But we can take back the *fact* that we have gifts; our unique potential buried beneath our burdens from the worlds blindness.
I don't know, and this isn't part if my own struggles. Just my ever wishful thinking spouting off.
I call myself "Tilted", for what its worth. Or simply... eccentric. My advice that whatever term you want to use for yourself make it balanced. No extremes of good or bad, just a piece of what makes you different.
I think that people have made that term negative by not teaching what being talented is and how you should behave the reason people feel negatively about others talking about their gifts is two reasons the talented person wasn't taught how to talk about such things properly the other thing is we aren't taught how to view someone thats better than us at something so we view them in a negative way out of jealousy for example if some says my daughter has a talent for dancing she was trying to dance before she could walk she finally became a professional dancer we're so proud of her now as the listener we should be happy for someone living their dream or have a neutral stance but nothing negative i think context and tone of voice also matters when talking about such things put plainly i don't think we are taught properly as humans how to treat the talented and how to behave if you're talented thats the issue and for me personally i like hearing people say what there good at even boasting in a negative way because it allows me to learn more about them and learn about what they're talented in i think there's a way to talk about being talented and there's a way to hear it if those things were taught early on their would be far less friction
Thank you so much fo4 this video!
The gifted label and program in school was a direct cause of soooooo much damage that had a major lasting effect. I got lucky due to a clerical error when switching schools which had me out of the program so I kept my mouth shut and refused to switch classes when it was discovered. For once my wishes won out and I was free.
💯 I don't know about you, but in my school we were all outcasts already. Did they think that we needed another reason to be singled out in school?
I feel very disillusioned by my childhood "gifted" label. I was literally expected to get a Nobel prize and cure cancer. No matter what I did achieve, and at all the costs to my wellbeing, it was never going to be enough. A lot of the time I had no idea what steps to take in life.
The good parts for me were - learning alongside friends who were likely ND too, having a bit of a halo effect with teachers and avoiding trouble, and being given lots of dinosaur books. 😄
I'm good now - living true to my identity, needs and values and compassionately embracing all my strengths and weaknesses. But boy were there some tough years.
Still loving the tea time format 😊
Thank you again! I have struggled with my perspective on this. 💕
I dont like the term Gifted. It's not a gift, it's a curse. I have never fitted in with my age group, I never enjoyed school, and Im not really successful professionaly. I was only assessed at 45, because I finally convinced my therapist that I might have addh. I could have been tested 4 years ago... when I first suspected it... but my therapist didnt believe me. My husband is not gifted, but he is much more successful academically than me
And I have used the word gifted to describe my IQ because that is the word they used when I was young. The people I have said this to were good friends and I immediately follow up the statement with a lot of self-deprecation. I have also failed to live up to any of the high expectations of my parents and teachers. The word does bring up a lot of painful feelings. I have made no grand discoveries. I clean houses because it brings me joy.
Honestly being labeled gifted is for me is just another thing that promotes masking and makes me feel as though I must live up to the expectations of others. As an adult it comes when people ask me what sort of work I do. I would never tell somebody I’m gifted and similarly I HATE it when people ask what work I do. When your talents do allow for high grades in school and enough masking to maintain a highly respected occupation it feels very lonely. I will never fit in with neurotypical people in my workplace and once others in my gaming groups find out what I do for a living it triggers something that sets me apart from them also.
Excellent video man. I went through the same thing, here in USA.
10:38 Teacher: You need better self esteem.
Me: I did this cool thing!
Peer: Dont BRAG!
20:15 I am not one of those without painful memories.
I have so many traumatic memories, a therapist, this week, denied seeing me because I had too much trauma.
Go figure. I am in so much mental pain, and I'm rejected for being too traumatized. Owch.
I'm sorry to hear that. I might have said "shocked" years back, but you're not the first person to say something along those lines, even in my video comments. FWIW - whilst I know there are numerous good therapists with a proven track record of helping ND patients - those I've seen personally have not been of help to me. I've struggled through learning my own way, and this channel is my attempt at sharing some of the understanding that got me this far. If the world won't help us, we have to find ways of helping ourselves & each other.
I hope you find the help you seek soon🙏
@@Autistamatic You help me so much! I am too learning how to be me, and you help me on this journey to a better life. Thank you so very much!
Lovely video Quinn. Bragging, gives me the ick. 😊
I've never had to deal with the complications tied to the 'gifted' label, but I have dealt with 'special', and that meant quite the opposite in retrospect.
We all have our triggers and it's important to be considerate of how our words might affect others. It's also important to be kind to ourselves should we have a social misstep, and when I do get offended, I try to remind myself that everyone (myself included) can unintentionally wound. I've certainly wounded many with my words, and despite trying my best not to, I'm certain to unintentionally wound others.
"To err is human"
I have a high IQ and technically, yes, I'm "gifted." However, along with it comes considerable troubles trying to relate to others - even some of above average intelligence. This causes me quite a bit of trouble, and I actually think that life would be easier if I were somewhat closer to "normal" (since coming to this conclusion, I discovered that I'm autistic, but I believe the two are linked).
Several years ago, when my first marriage was close to failure, I was in a relationship counselling session, and with all sincerity, I started to say a less detailed version of the first paragraph, above. I didn't get to say the "but" part of the message, which would've shown that I felt isolated because of the way I am, because the "counsellor" (she wasn't very good, and doesn't deserve the title) jumped in and reacted badly, as if I had been about to say that everyone should listen to me and do as I say. That's what I've come to expect, even from a supposed "trained professional counsellor" if I mention my intelligence. If only she had kept her mouth shut, she would've seen that I was saying my intelligence was a curse, and that I felt like an absolute failure in the aspects in life that counted the most. Truth be told, I still am.
Being "gifted" is no gift. It's a curse.
Another irrelevant old fart here. I don't remember anyone using the word gifted, but I was seen as exceptionally smart at one time, and I have an ambivalent relationship to that. See, all through primary school I was told I was "slow" (which everyone knew meant stupid), so when I went to secondary school and was told I was bright I kind of clung to that as a lifeline. I would do anything to keep on being told that; and I did, at least until I was 18. But I never believed it. I still thought I was slow, and that if I didn't work hard enough I would be found out. Eventually some of it sank in, and now I teeter between an arrogant belief in my own intellectual superiority and the certainty that I'm a fraud who will be unmasked any minute now. It would be nice to just have some quiet unexaggerated confidence, a middle ground; but I don't think it's ever going to happen.
I was never labeled a gifted kid, and finishing school and college was a long and not so easy path for me.
I only accidentally took an IQ test as a grownup and found out: whoops - gifted.
So for me that was somewhat nice on the one hand - but on the other hand it was also like: Are you f. kidding me?!
Your character points (spiky skillset) idea definitely describes me well. I may be a quick pattern spotter and simplifier, but my memory is rather bad (I really have to rote-learn facts if I need to retain them), and my reading fluency ... okay at best.
What, however, with persons who are just once-exceptional? Only gifted?
I had that sort of guy at school. Great at every subject except PE. Relaxedly interested in everything really. Breezed through school and college and became a professor.
Do you think that those people are probably also spiky (autistic), even if it's not so immediately visible, or is that a different sort of animal?
How would you judge the topic giftedness with regards to those people?
I never took an IQ test, but it was recognized when I was in preschool that I had “above-average intelligence”. Thanks to academic games on the TI-99/4A computer that my parents got in 1982 (when I was 3), I was reading on a 1st-grade level when I ENTERED kindergarten. Even though SOCIALLY, I was WAY BEHIND after kindergarten, the school couldn't justify holding me back because academically, I was SO FAR AHEAD. When I was in 3rd grade, I was in a combined 3rd-/4th-grade class with one teacher; all the students in the combined class were judged to be capable of studying on their own while the teacher taught the other grade.
I never felt EXTERNAL pressure from being classified as “above average intelligence”, but that was mainly because I put the pressure on myself. My brother had been diagnosed with moderate/borderline severe “mental retardation” (IQ 55) when he was 4 & I was 6. After a year in the Early Childhood Development Center (ECDC), a special ed. preschool, my brother joined me at Linden Elementary when I started 2nd grade, although he was in a separate special ed. class from then through high school. This being 1986, my classmates believed that my brother’s disabilities must be contagious & they treated me accordingly. Excelling academically was my way of proving to myself that my classmates were wrong & I didn't have the same disabilities that my brother did.
You can have a spiky skillset and still breeze through school. I never had to really apply myself but I definitely noticed that some topics were more difficult for me in a very noticeable way, especially anything to do with visual and kinaesthetic information. I recall that we had to build these little robots in physics class and it was the only class I almost failed because I remember I couldn't even understand how to properly connect the cables. It should be noted that I also wrote a paper about string theory for physics class, which should really tell you about the contrast between the two. I think my friend at the time was also possibly autistic because she really struggled to keep up with all the abstract classes such as maths (I was good but never amazing at maths) but she absolutely thrived in that one class we had in physics when we had to build robots. No one performed as well as she did. Yet here I am as an adult who can barely figure out how to swap light bulbs sometimes, and I really struggle to understand instruction manuals but I can understand complex philosophical ideas and literary subtexts. I also struggle to apply myself to keep performing a boring task even if it's a means to an end such as rote memorization for learning a language or practice for learning how to play the guitar. My issue is that I grasp the result before I get there so I just feel overwhelmed having to also perform these steps in real time rather than just imagining what needs to be done. This difficultly to apply myself made school life increasingly difficult as I went though high school and university, because I was expected to keep up my learning but now that I started having to apply myself especially if it was boring or required rote memorization made it extremely difficult to do so.
This is a helpful perspective. Thank you!
Giftedness is most definitely a neurodevelopmental condition. Lots of splinter skills and asynchronous development across all domains, being treated like crap by peers and having unfair expectations by adults (you can do X, so you shouldn't have trouble with Y), sensory hypersensitivities, lots of overlap with many of the things we now know are autistic traits and/or ADHD traits, and not a good fit for education systems designed for the majority instead of this neurodivergent minority.
It's unfair that this whole neurotype is labeled with such a loaded word as gifted, because it puts value judgment and prestige on some people and thus other people feel like they're being denigrated (I did not say anything about you!! And neither does my diagnosis of gifted!), and is dismissive of the fact that gifted people really do struggle. It's just as problematic as a functioning label given to autistic people. Doing well at one thing doesn't mean you don't have big struggles in other areas or even in that area sometimes.
Giftedness means a lot more than IQ and IQ is not really a straightforward or accurate measurement of a whole human being. But listen, if you're going to put the other end of the bell curve in the DSM as a disorder, then both ends of the bell curve should be in there. Remember the word statistical in Statistical Manual? The DSM is not a good system and not a good description of human beings. But giftedness is statistically rare, not at all in the middle of the bell curve in terms of number of people in the population, so shouldn't go in the book just like all the other things that are divergent from the majority/norm?
The social model of disability definitely applies to the experience of giftedness. Disability and giftedness, do not need to be emotionally loaded terms entwined with denigration nor prestige. If there were a completely different name for giftedness that wasn't a loaded term then it would still be a divergent neurotype that is a small minority of the population that society is not designed to fit. Same for the word exceptional, which in terms of the education system really means divergent from the majority and in need of accommodations to meet educational needs and ways of learning. Education of exceptional populations includes the different ways of learning and teaching to meet the needs of disabled people in what we call special ed, end of gifted people and what we call a gifted ed. Gifted education is a flavor of special ed, even if some people don't understand that.
I want to add that at this point in my life I view the words gifted, disabled, spoonie, ADHD, AuDHD, and autistic as factual labels about me, without any implication of emotion or superiority or inferiority.
I was diagnosed as gifted as a young child and my mom was an early education teacher who recognized it, learned more about it, and rightly told me that when I got to college I would meet more people like me and have social acceptance. That was true. Then as an adult, I started getting diagnosed with chronic illnesses (and later had to request assessments for ADHD and autism) that I have had all of my life, and I was able to let go of my lifelong self-description as a weakling and a runt who struggled with so many things that other people didn't. I learned to understand disability as a fact that did not deserve denigration or blame for things I couldn't do. I learned about disability rights and disability pride and disability acceptance and cross-disability solidarity. And those themes apply to all of the ways I am different from the majority -- in my neurotypes, physical and mental chronic health disabilities, and identities.
This is helpful for me to understand perhaps why giftedness (in the true definition, which is much deeper than just intelligence) hasn't been widely accepted as neurodivergence. Focusing on just the intellect is a narrow scope, and doesn't fully encompass the experience of giftedness, as it actually exists. Myself, and others are coming out to advocate for changing the name, since the term giftedness comes with many of the negative perceptions (elitism, etc) you mention here. From a gifted adult (who beliefs giftedness IS neurodivergent, not better than or separate from it), thanks for sharing your perspective.
To be neurodivergent, in particular autistic, is to possess a "spiky" skill set. We do well, even excel in some narrow areas, but we have equally specific vulnerabilities or failings. If we possess "gifts", it's naive to think they come without cost, yet that's the mould we are cast into.
This video put it into a more culturally-specific context:
ruclips.net/video/F0CXvtin-Ao/видео.htmlsi=xeoQa1KZmhoS_kjO