Can You Tell If Someone has Autism? | Middle Ground
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- Опубликовано: 15 май 2024
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0:00 intro
0:27 I find the work "disabled" offensive
8:14 I have trouble making friends
15:04 I have looked down on someone for being autistic
20:58 Accommodations should be made for autistic people to be included in society
27:05 Autistic people are not accurately represented in the media
35:53 It's better for autistic people to date within the community
42:46 Autism can be a strength
48:10 Final thoughts 
Развлечения
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Unreleased prompt andthe extended cut is up on our Patreon 👉 www.patreon.com/jubileemedia “It’s harder for autistic people to get a job”
First
2nd
Can you do atheists vs religous (include Christians, Muslims, Jewish)
You include a very narrow range of the spectrum here.
I feel like due diligence should have been done for a late-diagnosed autistic to be represented on this panel.
“i wanted to be with the neurotypical people but like Ariel i couldn’t talk” i like verbally gasped that was such a beautiful metaphor
😢❤️
Elsa too!
It's a simile not a metaphor. 🙈 sorry lol I couldn't help myself 😂
@@journeybravely2458 sorry lol my bad. I guess i meant it in the sense that the entire film was a metaphor for an autistic experience
@@pollon4277 yeah sorry lol I don't know why I just got the urge to say it lol so I did I'm not the grammar police I swear I just couldn't help myself 😂
47:29 "hey abbey, what do you think your strengths are?" was such a refreshing moment-- adin addressing abbey specifically and not her mom, and bringing the conversation back to how abbey herself interprets her autism (and not how her mom tells her to interpret it) was such a relief, and such a clear moment of compassion and empathy on adin's part.
that was so wonderful! I love Abby but her mom is a classic "Autism Mom" that will never let Abby be herfelf, only her Autism and accomplishments at masking
i was looking for a comment that mentioned the mom. she kept talking over Abby which was honestly pretty irritating. she also mentioned "her kind of autism" a lot as if there are clear different "types". i understand if abby wanted to have her mom with her because she was nervous but i really wished that the mom wouldnt have played that big of a part in the video and let abby express herself more freely.
@@CornythecaptainI disagreed with almost all of her takes and how she treats Abby. She gives me weird vibes and seems almost gatekeepy of autism when it's not hers to begin with.
@@mizzkittenttvi agree and i really wasnt a fan of how discrediting she was about how wide the spectrum has become. I get what shes saying and there definitely are people who just have autistic traits but not necessarily autism. BUT it is also kinda disheartening because I’ve always felt like im stuck between not being “normal enough” to be considered neurotypical, but not “autistic enough” to be considered autistic. And theres a lot of self hatred i had to deal with before i was able to have a therapist actually affirm my thoughts and help me through my diagnosis. I think the ideology of not being low functioning meaning you arent really autistic is really harmful and causes a lot of self hatred.
Yes! There were multiple times where it seemed abbey didn’t agree/disagree yet still went following her mom. I was really happy to see him create a safe space for Abbey to share her own thoughts and so gracefully as well
I really appreciate Ian's honesty during the "I have looked down on someone for being autistic" segment. Recognizing and addressing your own biases (which we all have at some point or another) is important for breaking down those barriers between people. ❤
I know this is barely an equivalent, but it reminded me of the differences my family had to other families and how much it embarrassed me... beautiful differences and of course flaws! and how when I got older I realised that it's ok for my family to be different but it did take some recognizing
i completely agree!
Late diagnosed here; I'm really trying to get better with internalized ableism. I feel repelled by more "visibly autistic" people, but I know that isn't fair, and I want to get better.
I did the same thing for a long time, especially to my brother.
I think it's because i hate that part about myself, i do everything in my power to suppress and hide it, and seeing him not doing the same (or not being able to) reminds me of my own deficiencies.
One thing you should know about masking and suppressing though, is that it makes you a booring person: You become emotionally constipated, afraid to be yourself and to open up to people and be authentic. When you focus your entire being into trying to be normal, you become like that NPC meme - mediocre. Generic. The kind of person that is hard to connect with. It might just mean you will spend your life alone.
So practice on being yourself too, once in a while.
Abbey articulates herself beautifully, and it’s clear that she’s worked hard in her therapies to be able to do so. Abbey having to ask Christine if it was okay to share the “Ariel story” and the response was almost hesitant like “well, you can” and then what she said really resonated with the other guests- I wish Christine would let her speak for herself more.
❤yes❤
Abbey’s mom irritated me this entire video. As someone who was diagnosed at 18, she made me feel extremely invalidated and her comment about how 35 year olds shouldn’t seek out a diagnosis because they’re successful is so damaging and disheartening. Autistic people deserve to know that they’re autistic and deserve help and accommodations at any age.
Also I hate that she addressed the fact that Asperger’s is no longer a term that should be used and then USED IT???? Blows my mind.
I've been trying to seek an autism evaluation and yeah I was thinking the same thing. It feels awful. I'm not trying to seek an evaluation because it's "trendy" I'm doing it because I've struggled all of my life
yeah abbey's mum is fucked up, the way she's turned her daughter into content to begin with is fucked up. but then she also addresses abbey as if she's a child
Thank you!
as someone who was diagnosed between 16 it also made me feel shitty. she's the type of person to think that if someone was not diagnosed when they were 5 its not a real diagnosis.
I love Abbey explaining her autism through the little mermaid, she articulated that so well
yeah, ariel also collects things that were her interest, in her case humans, plus her friends were animales vs other mermaids.
I love their tiktok page it's so great.
Have see on love on the Spectrum?
I didnt like how overbearing her mom felt. It’s seemed kinda strange, at the prompt of “can autism be a strength” the way the two of them looked at each other it made me feel…😢
@@julians6620 she was belittling her so much.
It made me really sad that abby was not going to ageee with the prompt that its better for autistic people to date within the community but walked forward when her mom did. Her mom just totally spoke for her and also then abbys reaction to her mom saying she wouldnt be comfortable with abby dating someone nerotypical and abbys reaction to that. Honeslty it felt like her mom was implying someone who is nurotypical dating her would be almost taking advantage of her felt really gross. Someone does not need to be autistic to be able to relate, understand, care for and love someone who is austistic. I would have loved to hear what abbys actual feelings about it were.
THIS. All of it.
Believing it’s better for autistic people to date other autistics is damaging to both those with autism and those who are neurotypical; it widens the gap between autistics and NT which contradicts the hope of aiming for acceptance that many, if most, people with autism want.
I’m not trying to downplay the care Abbey’s mom has for her, but Abbey deserves better.
Well how do you know she doesn't feel the same as her mother? Maybe they've discussed this privately before. Maybe she wants her mother to speak for her like this. There are a few things that you are assuming
@@Scooterbeerrun Maybe because that attitude is very common in parents of autistic people and you can see her mom literally controlling the narrative on the video on multiple occasions and making it about herself when she is not, as she herself said, neurodivergent. There's this tendency for parents of autistic kids to appropriate their children's diagnosis as a personality trait and to make a flaming torch that they wave everywhere about how much THEY have suffered because of their kids diagnosis and how much they know about it while actually never experiencing it, taking attention away from the actual person with the diagnosis and speaking in behalf of or over them, a fundamental reason why the term "autism mom" has such a bad reputation. Yes, we cannot 100% know what the situation actually is behind the scenes and what these people's lives have been like but we have enough examples and personal experiences to notice the patterns, and that woman is certainly sounding red alarms for most people on the spectrum who watched the video.
You said exactly what I was thinking.
@@exhaustedpunk1477without knowing then you'd be doing the same thing which is assuming you have their experience and trying to speak for them
When Adin asked Abbey what she thought her strengths were, it honestly made me emotional. It was such a beautiful moment of empathy and compassion, and you could tell how happy it made her to say so many positive things about herself. This is just my opinion, but I really think Abbey's mother needs to pay more attention to how Abbey feels in the moment, especially since communication has been a challenge for her. I just feel like there were times when Abbey had things she wanted to say but was struggling to find a way to do so. There were also a few times when it looked like Abbey was looking to her mother for what to do after a prompt was said, and it kind of rubbed me the wrong way, but I could have misread that.
(also we need an Adin and Abbey collab duet immediately!!!!)
I can’t believe a random participant had to redirect and ask Abbey her strengths after her literal mom pointed out her “deficits”😭
Personally I agree. I don't know for certain but I have seen their content before and found myself feeling unsettled. They seem so focused on Abby being "functional" and "talking normally". She mimics her mum and in their other content might say something and her mum corrects her.I mean she's in ABA which I also found hard to hear but she said she liked it. I'm not saying anything for definite! Just explaining my feelings and discomfort which means nothing.
Yeah, it felt weird the way she was constantly speaking for Abby as well
@@user-vg6cx5de9cshe genuinely doesn’t know any different, her mother is extremely controlling and is your typical puzzle piece autism mom
@@myribunt5261 parents of children with Autism often have to dedicate and sacrifice a lot more of themselves to help their children than parents of neurotypical children. Her mum is probably there for emotional support and helping her to communicate her thoughts in a way that others would understand. Parent like this needs to be praised and appreciated.
@@meowgirlcowshe (abbeys mom) has explicitly stated that she is not autistic herself
If only all middle ground episodes were so grounded and respectful
Agreed. Although I can see why the difference is so big, because usually middle ground episodes are made of 2 opposing communities, viewpoints, opinion, etc. This episode is pretty different in that regard. People with or without autism aren't some religious or political opposition which what these episodes are usually about.
@@Tenseiken_ The difference it makes for the people involved to not be or be seen as socially pitted against each other is very refreshing and positive.
Yall say this every episode
Exactly, these discussions are mostly very respectful and civil @@alastair9835
I think part of that is everyone had an understanding of autism/disabilities. Outside of Veronica, you had 2 parents with children with autism and a child whose parents work with children with different disabilities.
Abbie’s situation is difficult.
watch how she watches her mom on how to respond. It’s not clear whether she has developed self governance based off of what her mom says because she’s been infantilized, or if as a part of her learning disability she doesn’t know how to respond based on what her opinions are and is relying on her mother to help her do that.
in many ways that may also be the product of 20 years of her mom being that same support system and necessary guidance that got her to where she is today. It’s important to note that crashes and meltdowns for grade 2+ can result in digression of speech patterns, habit formation, masking and etc, so it’s not as simple as just set Abbie free to the wind and let her explore on her own. In cases where they aren’t able to be fully independent or self-sufficient, you have to develop very strategic contingency plans with small incremental goals towards that. Her mom clearly has given her life to her and has a strong sense of protection for her daughter, but its unclear whether it has contributed to Abbie being able to express her own feelings when she does feel fit..
Well in fairness she acts exactly the same on Love on the Spectrum. And on episodes are just based around Abbey, her mom isn’t in the picture at all (as it should be) .
Abbey is autistic but also has an intellectual disability. Her mother doesn't seem to realize those are separate diagnoses. You do not need to have an ID in order to be autistic. ASD is a neurotype that impacts the way we perceive and experience the world and society. I sailed through my academics without trying before college. I didn't need more than a year of speech. I had no iep. At the same time, the world has always been too bright, smelly, and loud. I didn't understand social hierarchy. I never maintained more than one friend at a time. I spent most of my time inside my own head. Some of my earliest memories are of not understanding humans because my brain is neurodivergent and I have always thought differently.
If you listen to any of Abbey's mum's videoes she talks proudly about training autistic traits out of Abbey.
What is her channel? That's concerning
Damn... That sucks
How do you know she has an intellectual disability?
I also reacted when Abby’s mom said that she didn’t like the idea of people who sort of seemed to manage through life were looking for a diagnosis.. Autism is not always visible for other people, it’s a lot of draining masking and getting a diagnosis can really help with understanding oneself.
As a high masking autistic woman, I was pretty disappointed to see Abbey’s mom invalidate the experiences of high masking autistics as a grab for attention. Getting a diagnosis as an adult helped me finally have some compassion for everything I went through as a child, and it has helped me advocate for myself in all aspects of my life. High masking autistics aren’t a threat to others on the spectrum, and we still benefit from the diagnosis, even if it looks different.
Exactly
I was VERY disappointed too. Invalidating others experiences is NOT okay.
I was disgusted to see this from a mother of an autistic child. There is still such ableism within the autistic community and it is because of people like her that it’s so common. Glad to see others picked up on this.
She might not have understood completely why they needed the diagnosis, but she highlighted a great point, which is seemingly well-rounded, excelling people show off their diagnoses making the public believe that maybe they have autism bc they are sensitive to light. It is crazy how many people did not understand the point of the woman's speech. 😢
im so glad other people had this thought. have low needs doesnt suddenly mean not autistic
I wish Adin had more friends. He seems so genuine and funny. He also kinda stuck up for Abby at the end there when her mom was going on about negative things and he asked Abby directly what her super powers were to give her a chance to speak positively about herself. Very considerate.
yeah! This was most of what my main comment was about. How Abby's mom seems so controlling and helicoptery. So glad Adin asked that, because it allowed Abby to actually answer the question for herself! And her answer was NOTHING like what her mom was saying for her, lmao. (honestly not even sure wtf the mom was trying to say during that)
i was going to comment the same thing! i was so happy someone asked what she CAN do. it seems like her mom only ever talks about the struggle and “deficits” as she called it. she needs to let Abby speak more too
The moms a narcissist for sure. The way she launched into her bragging about meeting people on her trip to Europe was so random and unnecessary lol. Don’t like the way her daughter has to ask for permission to speak and he reaction was like “I guess” or something like that. Really creepy.
@@zy1232LS she also has a weird view on high masking autistic people, she keeps using the word aspergers for it as well. As someone whos late diagnosed and high masking I felt offended by her saying that autism is trendy. No its not. People are now finding out what autism actually is. There havent been many studies especially for high masking autistic women like me who have been taken advantage of. We didnt know it was the autism that was making myself very vurnerable that way. And these neurotypicals like the mom dont see our internal struggles at all.
@@purpleplanet888 yes! It was such a weird take when she kept talking about how she doesn't like that the spectrum is broadening and that she wants there to only be like three "types" of autism as if that's a thing. That's literally why it's called a spectrum.
Can’t finish. Abbeys mother shouldn’t have been invited. Abbey can manage this!!! She was doing well!
lmfao ok snowflake bye 🥱👋
First vid in a while where before watching I read the comments and I'm so glad I did. From the sounds of it her mum is not a safe place/sounding board/whatever the word is for neuro-spicy people who don't have profound difficulties. Know that I'll be triggered and don't have the spoons rn. Comments like yours are helpful.
Real
She was there for a reason.
While we may have opinions about her mom and her beliefs, Abbey herself seemed to appreciate her being there and maybe even requested she be on the panel. It's possible she did have the ability to do this alone but she may have not felt confident to do so and was able to express herself because she had her mom there. I feel like some of Abbey's independent thoughts may have been squelched by her mom's presence but it's also possible she would have closed down completely if her mom wasn't there for support. Just a thought.
Abby’s mom does not know what autism is. She’s knows what it looks like for Abby and that’s it.
I agree. It was really irritating that she tried to invalidate the comedian just because he has a seemingly normal life. She does not understand the internal battle he has had or masking he has done
I completely agree. Ignorance at it’s finest
@@97yezias a person who discovered their autism relatively late and has learned a ton from other late diagnosed autistics, I find her attitude straight out offensive and invalidating! My stomach literally cramped when she said that. This is not a trend! This is people realising why they had issues all their life. Autistic females weren't talked about until a few years ago, some people don't have the resources for a diagnosis and some parents really just don't care...
But, I thought she said she was curious what it looked like for him… not invalidating the guy’s experience
@@97yezi Well, he clearly didn't try to get his "internal battles" across at all.
The whole time he was saying he's very confident in who he is. So, it's not crazy that the woman is in awe of him being able to function in society so well, when Abby obviously struggles.
Judging is always so easy, especially on the Internet.
Only people with disabled children can say how hard it is. Specially someone who's be SOLELY responsible, since from what the conversation hinted at, she's been raising her kids on her own. There's a lot of mourning that comes with each missed milestone, with each meltdown, with each failed attempt at play dates, while helping their child integrate somehow and failing miserably... There's a lot of loss involved. It feels like it's a constant uphill battle, you look around and see others complaining about silly things, having no idea how much harder things are for these parents and their children. Every win tends to come with extraordinary effort.
I noticed that underneath their names some people had "autistic" and others had "has autism" and I just really appreciate that those people on the show were able to choose what language they'd prefer for themselves as opposed to the show assuming what they'd be more comfortable with :)
i saw this too it is just a little touch that really shows that jubilee cares abt the people they have on their show
I didn’t notice until you mentioned this. That is very thoughtful!
Noticed that too! As a speech therapist, I've been educated through the terms "autistic" or "person in asd". We preferably use the second one so we don't create stigma around a person who has autism to people who aren't really familiar with this.
@ellieworks the large preference of the autistic community is identity first language. We are autistic. Autism is not an accessory that we have. It is a description of the way our brains are wired. Always follow the individuals preference but "person in asd" is a hard pass that doesnt make sense linguistically and makes it sound like we are being afflicted by autism or autism is a temporary state we are in.
@@kelsey6061 considerate that I'm not working in English, linguistically my native language supports the term "people is spectrum". By saying "autistic" in my language sounds stigmatizing however we don't approach a person by saying it. We go with the individual's name regardless their pragmatic skills
I'm a little concerned how Abbey always looked to her mom to decide which prompt she agrees with
For real she seemed quite overbearing and her hate towards social media while still continuing to create a platform is kinda funny
Abbey's mom has turned her daughter into her career. There's a reason why so many actually autistic people are so turned off by her. It's painful to see how treats and talks about her daughter. All while thinking she's a hero for being an Austism Mom
Abbey’s mom has always been her biggest aid in helping Abbey be a part of the neurotypical world, and thus gain independence and being able to express herself (and understand orhers) in a way that is going to be percieved accurately by the mainstream. Abbey does not have the skills and tools to do this independently yet, which is why she is looking to her mom to confirm that the way Abbey is interpeting the questions and interactions is correct.
@@amandablomquist5678 I think it would be nice if Abbey was able to just sit in a safe space and give her opinions without her mom. Her mother could be there on the sidelines. She might still struggle socially but this was a completely safe space for her to practice using her voice on her own. Abbey is very insightful and intelligent.
I think her mom is extremely overprotective, which I understand but she needs to cut the apron strings.
@@amberx0xo I completely agree with you. Abbey is an adult and she should be allowed to share her voice freely. She is insightful and intelligent. She does need support but is also an adult who deserves to explore her independence. Abbey's voice is important to help people understand how autistic minds process life. Her mom treats her like a child. And in my opinion her views of being an autistic person are antiquated and she keeps trying to pathologize autistic people. Even the guy who brought his mom to his audition didn't have her sitting next to him.
Wow, Abby stepping forward because she agrees that she finds the term 'disabled' offensive and her mom telling her "I think you should go back there." And Abby does it. I feel so sorry for Abby to have such a controlling mother that doesn't let her think and speak for herself, undermines her agency and disregards her boundaries. Abby obviously finds the term 'disabled' offensive and her mother keeps calling her that. I wish Abby the strength to emancipate herself from her mother and find other people to rely on who treat her with respect.
I see a lot of people making excuses for her mom in the comments but there's genuinely no excuse for this specific moment. Genuinely a control freak.
yeah, i was looking for this comment. not even a minute into a video and it starts like that? wow. that's really awful
I disagree here. It seemed as though Abby changed her mind and then got confused about where to stand. Her mom was just telling her where they were supposed to stand
@@laurelfscientist That is possible, we don't know from watching. I actually ended up glad my parents are not involved in my life when I met and became very close friends with a mother daughter duo where the daughter has autism and the mother "is her person." It broke my heart and I had to cut the friendship because the mother forces the daughter to live how she thinks she should even when the daughter very clearly expresses that doing the thing will harm her. Mom makes her do the thing to blend in, it is so hard to watch an adult be kept under the thumb of their parent under the guise of support.
Admin describing his loneliness made me genuinely cry.
I’m not autistic but I feel his pain deeply, emotions are universal even if we experience them differently.
I feel for you Adin, you’re not alone even if it feels that way!
Your herbs has work wonders in my family.
Thanks for the help Dr Oyalo for saving my son from autism spectrum with your herbs. Your herbs is the best.
Abbey is so much more capable than her mom gives her credit for.
Yes her Mom was talking over her a lot. Would have been more interesting not to have Mom here.
@@gogogadgetabbyyes, you can even hear her cutting her off to speak over her at one point
agee her mom has always rubbed me the wrong way. just because abbey had learning deficits doesn’t mean she’s not capable of being mature. it seems like her mom treats her like a child
Agree! I noticed her tapping her leg a lot too basically telling her to stop what she was doing and every time there was a prompt, Abbey would wait for her mum to step forward before also doing so.
@tayamcm7046 I noticed the 2nd thing, but I didn't notice the 1st. She is literally there to speak on her own experience. I hope she gets independent enough one day to get away.
I think the "finding a job is harder with autism" prompt should not have been patreon exclusive. Idk how they go in depth about it on patreon but it is such an important and frightening statistic how hard it is for us to get jobs, even if we are fully educated and trained, the unemployment rate of autistic individuals is *so high*
big agree. the moment i mention a disability, radio silence
Especially because people who don't have money to see the Patreon prompt may be the people who relate to that prompt most!
fr its shocking that they would make that patreon exclusive
my exact thought
yeah it's kinda ironic to put the "people might have a harder time finding jobs" behind a paywall where "people who have a harder time finding jobs" are unable to see it.
James>Christine
You can tell he is a far better and more supportive parent.
You can criticise Christine without making comparisons.
props to Adin for subtly calling out Abbey's mom, and for directing the question about strengths to her. he was the highlight of the video for me, as a fellow autistic person -- incredibly intelligent, thoughtful, and compassionate.
Yes literally king move from him
As an autistic person who was diagnosed later, I would be so interested in a middle ground between early and late/later diagnosed.😊
As someone diagnosed at 15, I would too.
I had non verbal autism and didn’t speak until around 7 years of age. No words just weird noises and in my own world.
fr it kinda feels like a whole perspective was out of the conversation
Or a conversation about people being over-diagnosed, and how it affects the current culture of " special" tik tok" olympics. I got diagnosed at 5-ish. I am married, have kids, a job, friends. I function just fine, don't have identity issues or trouble regulating my emotions, I'm conservative, don't stim ( in public) don't have depression. I would love to hear a voice like mine, as there are plenty of people like me who function just fine. It is not a label to "express" yourself like a walking talking billboard for political activism. And that is what is happening currently. Most of the older generation ( I'm mid 30's) just wants to live their life in peace.
@cyano741 This is what I aspire to be. I'm 22 and was diagnosed at 15. It is challenging to fit in to society the way I would like due to, well, autism obviously. But I hope over time, I can continue to overcome the obstacles that my diagnosis presents and live as nuerotylical of a life as possible.
I'm sorry, cutting the part about their barriers to employment and sending people to Patreon to pay and see that part is crraazzyyy 😂
I always forget they do that and I'm like 'oh I look forward to this prompt' and then they're like 'ya gotta pay for it' lol
They pick the prompt everyone was here for the most to put behind a paywall, because you know, the disabled want to know how to find an job easier from people who had and why would a company give that info out for free when they could scalp you for it?
So rude, ofc they would make you pay for the prompt that people would benefit from seeing 🤦♀️
That’s very funny I’m sorry
Especially cause I’m interested in listening, but as an autistic person myself… I don’t have the money!
"i can mask, why can't you?" Perspective as a kid... Really nice to hear someone else talk about. When you're a kid being forced to act/behave a certain way (or else you get in trouble) it can be really confusing and frustrating to see others "get away" with being themselves. It's something that I had a really hard time understanding like why do I have to force a mask but others dont? Obviously as an adult my perspective has changed and i understand a lot more now that theres different spectrums and different expectations depending on family/etc. but overall- first time ive heard someone else share these struggles, really nice to not feel so alone
For someone who sees the problem with the “Aspergers” term, Abbey’s mom sure loved saying it a lot
If Aspergers is a condition which has been in medical books and taught to medical professional for many many years, why can the term not be used anymore? I am just learning of this recently.
@@deborahhenderson149there's a large debate on whether or not it's still technically correct. The debate was mostly sparked during the process of the DSM 5 RE (????) where they melded the diagnosis of Asperger's into the ASD diagnosis. Officially, someone who WOULD have been Asperger's 3 years ago would now be referred to as ASD. There's arguments for and against it (on both sides lowkey).
@@keelyreitman7495lots of people still use Asperger’s because some people were diagnosed with Asperger’s.
Look up the history of the person aspergers was named after, hes evil
I actually love the distinction between Asperger's and autism. I wish there was something similar today! Then people like Abby's mom could say "Abby's autistic and this guy has Asperger's. They're very similar, but I see the differences." Or at least I could say "I have Asperger's syndrome. I can hold a part time job and drive myself but I struggle with social situations and sensory overload."
Why is no one talking about Chris? It’s heartwarming to see someone being so sensitive, well spoken, and caring at such a young age. The world would definitely be a better place if there were more young adults like him
very true. i'm autistic and i see it in a similar way, when they were talking about disability. it needs to be recognized to be accepted. if it gets accepted, people can learn from the process it took to get there, just like sensitizing people to physcial disability
His parents raised him well it seems and of course I think his exposure to those with autism at that camp, albeit not a common thing, granted him a new perspective
@@nucle4rpenguins534 For sure! The way he turned out to be just reinforces how important it is to expose children to different perspectives since the beginning. At first, it may seem like he’s not doing much (‘cause being respectful is the bare minimum), but in a world where autistic people are still called the ‘r’ word, teens like Chris are a breath of fresh air. My most profound respect to him and to his parents! ❤
LITERALLY KEPT THINKING THIS THE ENTIRE TIME
Yes I waa blown away by his maturity...far more mature and well-spoken and emotionally intelligent than many or most adults. It is hard for me to imagine him finding his level of conversation from many fellow teens. I can easily imagine him being a counselor, teacher, public speaker, leader, etc.
i really liked this episode but i do wish abbey's mom wasn't present, i felt like it was doing abbey a disservice to have her mother as one of the participants in the discussion instead of just being a support
Absolutely agree
Without her it would have been an amazing conversation.
I don’t get why they wouldn’t just have her mum at abbeys side as support and to break down the prompts without giving her answers as it leads so much to a bias of opinions because she’ll choose based on her mother’s opinion instead of choosing her own
Literally, she hardly even lets her speak. It's so frustrating to watch. The fact that she feels like she needs permission from her mother to say certain things?!
Thats a thing with autism moms, they often cant comprehend that theire constant interference does theire children a disservice.
I think its because they are used to do everything for them and see autism as sort of an inability to grow up. Its hard to let go when you are used to work under the assumption you need to take everything off theire hands and they cant learn. They make that assumption true by acting accordingly.
I really appreciate having a live moderator in frame on this one. Seems more respectful and safer. Also, my partner is autistic, and sometimes I speak for him out of habbit. In those moments I must remind myself that even if I have his best interests at heart, I have to step back and give him space. I think Abbey's mum could learn something from that. Also, I love my partner with all of my heart and I wholeheartedly disagree with her about autistic and neurotypical people dating. Also, I wanted to reach through the screen and hug all of them during the "making friends" prompt.
I wonder if this is an adjustment to accomodate sensory issues. Hopefully this means the moderator gets taken more seriously now.
Get the best remedy to improve your child’s autistic condition from doctor Oyalo as his herbs have helped my child improve in speech and social skill very well
She was clearly commenting on people at Abby’s level of disability dating neurotypical people. And frankly yeah , I agree with her. I would be concerned about a neurotypical person dating someone with a cognitive disability as well. There’s clear imbalance there.
I’d just like to say that Chris at just 16 is so understanding of the world around him and all those different people who inhabit it. He’s very well rounded and I’d be extremely proud of him if he were my son. I wish there were more equality and inclusivity for those on the spectrum. Everyone is equally deserving of the same level of respect, accessibility to public places such as restaurants, libraries etc without being subjected to glares and judgement. Accessibility to any support and services needed to live, work and function in everyday life can be a huge challenge. It’s extremely hard to get services and therapies for free as an adult vs as a child, and I believe that should change. That takes away equality between neurotypical adults and adults who are on the spectrum, by giving those on the spectrum a possible disadvantage at having a happy and successful adult experience in all areas. Loved all of today’s group. Was really informative and interesting! Thank you all ❤
Get the best remedy to improve your child’s autistic condition from doctor Oyalo as his herbs have helped my child improve in speech and social skill very well
Adin asking Abbey what her strengths are was such a boss move. It seems like her mom only wants to talk about the negatives.
Yeah, i'm glad he asked her directly instead of the mom talking for her
I think the reason she talks a lot for abby is because she knows the depth of what she can understand. She isn't being negative, she is just really trying to get people to understand that abby does have a different form of autism, and abby herself can not explain it in a way we would quite understand. It was super sweet of him to do that tho!
@@jessamcintyre2954 She can't possibly know more than Abbey herself and your assertion that a neurotypical person would understand autistic people better than the actual autistic person and the rest of the community is incredibly ableist. If you mean well please educate yourself better and don't defend non autistic people talking over autistic people.
@@debbieparnell7582as someone with autism I'm very aware that the way I try to explain thing can miss when speaking to neurotypical ppl. And while I wouldnt want most people to try to explain something as if they know better then me theres one exception. My closest family. The ones who advocated for me when I couldn't figure it out when i was young. Who listened to every explanation i gave and tried to make sense of it. My mother can explain things in ways I'd never think too that doesnt mean my mom knows what's wrong better then me but it does mean shes better at communicating with neurotypical and "translating" what I want to say.
One of my biggest issues was how she knew using the term Aspergers is upsetting to a lot of people, even if it isn't to others, and kept rolling with it multiple times over. I think Abbey can speak for herself more than her mom let her but it can become habit if she's the neurotypical translator more often than not. I commend Abbey for all the work she's done and all of her strengths and weeknesses. I wish I could've heard it from her, whether I would have completely understood or not.
Christine made lovely point about representation, and then immediately said if you didnt struggle the same way my daughter did your not autistic. It is a SPECTRUM. Not every person with austism looks like the autism in your own life.
yeh that was super offputting.
She is unsufferable
THANK YOU! I literally just paused the video here in frustration. Like, folks who are struggling as she described and are looking for those diagnoses because they can related to being autistic (like I did last year) are going to be lower support needs, sure, but we're still autistic. We're just higher masking. That was so demoralizing and offensive.
Get the best remedy to improve your child’s autistic condition from doctor Oyalo as his herbs have helped my child improve in speech and social skill very well
Hey Abbys mom, a neurotypical person would be able to understand your daughter. Probably more and healthier than you are doing with her on this show. She is bright & beautiful and has her own opinions. So glad when she would answer questions without you trying to finish them for her.
Abbey’s mother seems high functioning autistic, explains her controlling behavior and making her daughter her life. High masking
I would love to see Connor's mother and Abby's mother have a discussion. Abby's mother makes me so angry and Connor's mother just makes me want to cry tears of joy. Xtreme opposite ends of a spectrum of what kind of parent to be.
Connor's mother is such a sweet soul I loved watching that entire family's dynamic on the show
Get the best remedy to improve your child’s autistic condition from doctor Oyalo as his herbs have helped my child improve in speech and social skill very well
9:20 “I am so lonely”…this was a devastating prompt. Wish people could have more humanity
Yeah I felt so bad for him, but remember not all people are bad
He sounds so lovely and I’d love to be his friend!
I felt it to my core. I felt so lonely in school, i was bullied for 10 years non stop, i barely ever had any friends until my 20s, im not someone people would ask on a date. I have a boyfriend for 10 months now but before that i felt so lonely still and im in my 40s.
That hit me to my core, unfortunately. Especially when it pertains to my childhood and adolescense.
That broke my heart. I’m autistic & it hit me to my core 😢
I'm sure the mom means well, but jfc her talking over Abbey and just generally not understanding autism as a spectrum was so hard to watch. LET ABBEY TALK SHE WORKED SO HARD FOR IT 😭
Literally, she worked 20+ years for this moment! I understood what Abby's mom said about Autism and ADHD becoming trendy on social media and the concerns about that. However I think it was misguided and she didn't actually think there was a spectrum and if you don't fit the mold you're pandering for clout.
@@circular_enigmai think she's more talking about people who specifically only have sensory issues maybe shouldn't be clumped into autism because it just makes the spectrum way too wide. like they can just have sensory issues and it have nothing to do with autism
There is a point to this. Even as treatment professionals, there is disagreement with the criteria list being so wide.
We are still in an understanding infancy stage in learning, understanding and supporting those who have a neurodivergent diagnosis.
@@lexir7504sensory issues are the most disabling part!
@@circular_enigmaI think people should probably stay in their lane and avoid projecting onto others. We can’t possibly know if these people do or don’t have asd or adhd.
Christine, “They don’t use the term Asperger’s any more.”
Then repeatedly uses the term Asperger’s.
Christine then gets annoyed that there are, according to her, 50 levels of autism.
No, Christine. There are 3 levels of autism.
You’re just annoyed that Abbey is at level 2.
All it means is that Abbey requires substantial support, which Christine knows.
She’s just annoyed because she is still operating under the outdated idea that Abbey isn’t “high functioning”, which she probably takes to mean that Abbey isn’t very smart.
I am level 1. That doesn’t mean I am better than Abbey
I just require less support. I still require support.
In fact, Abbey makes more money than me, due to things like this video.
I didn't know about the levels of autism! Just read a paper about it. Thanks for sharing
@@jordanjohnson6229Those levels are still not super telling, outside of clinical indicators that are more often than not used for medical and billing paperwork than to describe autists (because, as described, it's a spectrum and not one autist is the same or has the same needs).
As a kid I would often blurt out thoughts whenever a conversation reminded me of them. I've stopped doing that since because people told me it wasn't the time for me to speak. Seeing abbey do the same and having the group be so accepting of that made me so happy, this group is great!
Get the best remedy to improve your child’s autistic condition from doctor Oyalo as his herbs have helped my child improve in speech and social skill very well
The fact that the job question is put behind a paywall for this topic is appalling. A lot of autistic people myself included need help with getting a job it’s terribly hard. No job means no extra money for things like patreon. This question should have been free for the help it could have brought to other autistic individuals who desperately need need help in this area.
They pulled a Logan Paul
the irony
You expect answers for really crucial questions from jubilee?
for real!
@@kayhaichthere are not so many panels of autistic people talking about their experiences. We take what we can
I think this discussion needed the voice of a late diagnosed autistic person. Christine seemed to put down late diagnosed people she asked why a person aged 35 would seek an autism assessment due to the fact that they had children and a successful career. Many people need to be educated on autism and it saddens me that a mother of an autistic daughter is so uneducated and also so firm on keeping autism an exclusive term to people with medium to high support needs. I hope people dont take her opinion too seriously because i believe that when people say these things it encourages ableism and sets our society backwards keeping us further from progression.
Well said!
Also non verbal representation, so many people are still able to communicate with things like AAC
preach!
I fully agree! She said something like “They’re 35, trying to get a diagnosis with a college degree and two kids. Did you have speech therapy? Why do you need the diagnosis?” And that actually really upset me. If this person is neurodivergent, imagine what their college experience would have been like if they were afforded the accommodations they needed! Maybe they would have benefited from speech therapy. I think Christine has a very narrow view of something that is literally a spectrum.
Exactly!
Aww I wish Abbey’a mom wasn’t there so she could have been herself the whole time without being policed. She was so included at the very end and she was happy to sing for everyone and make her side comments. I see you, girl. Don’t let you mom tell you who and what you are.
I clicked because I follow Abby on instagram and wanted to see her speak without her mom asking her questions and leading the conversation. So disappointed when she was in the seat next to her.
I really appreciate the mediator sitting with the people, it made them more active and less just someone shouting behind the camera.
i so agree
GEN is awesome. He's been a moderator before (he also has his own youtube channel). Hope they make him come back
Thank you! It was a pleasure hosting
@@sselemaNrMappreciate the support - thanks for watching
Get the best remedy to improve your child’s autistic condition from doctor Oyalo as his herbs have helped my child improve in speech and social skill very well
I’m glad the moderator is within the conversation now because it helps to prevent people from being attacked and spoken over like it happened for example with the trans episode
Soooo true, and the person asking the questions on the trans episode was super bias
I like this too, and I am glad that the moderator is asking additional questions to allow people to clarify their points and elaborate.
Gen has a youtube channel. He is a great guy.
Y'all bring that up every episode it's so tiring
@@taylorrhoades6660 womp womp
the way abbeys mom made her go back on the first question is rediculous, that goes against the whole point of the video
This was refreshing. My brothers are both Autistic and we had a NYT article written about our family. We ended up getting a call from Harpo Productions (the Oprah show) and they wanted us to come on, which sounded great. However, they only wanted to focus on the negative aspects of Autism and my mom set them straight. So I really appreciated and related to everything the father of the nonverbal son said.
Did your family end up going on Oprah at all or would they only record your family under the condition that your brothers' autism was framed as a traumatic deficit?
Either way, your mom is a saint for using her voice and privilege to fight for proper, accurate representation.
Abbey's mom defs has the vibe of a martyr for having an autistic kid. Just because someone needs assistance, even to the level Abbey may need, does NOT mean they are incapable of answering and thinking for themselves in safe situations, like this forum here.
She also needs to recognize that not everyone like Abby has access to caretakers like herself. Plenty of disabled people are struggling to survive because they cannot access the care they need without the caretaker which they do not have.
Get the best remedy to improve your child’s autistic condition from doctor Oyalo as his herbs have helped my child improve in speech and social skill very well
I'm a woman diagnosed at 28. People role their eyes when I say that thinking I'm trying to be trendy. I've been told my entire life I'm autistic by teachers, doctors, etc. I just wasn't allowed to be tested because my religious parents. So I grew up being othered and bullied and I always was alone. I was punished for stimming, for not being like everyone else. Being diagnosed was so powerful because it allowed me to forgive myself.
That is amazing to hear and shows how much of a personal matter it is 🖤
Yes! This is why i found it so harmful when Christine said that "being autistic is trendy" on TikTok. When that sentiment is pushed, it makes it hard for late diagnosed/high masking folks to be believed and as a result it makes it harder to get support.
Very much relate to this! ❤
yes, people seem to think they are being helpful by talking about how autism is trendy and that it hurts “real” autistic people, but instead they are hurting autistic people by spreading the idea that it’s trendy, because people who are high masking or low support needs will be invalidated by being seen as just following a trend. just because it’s being talked about and becoming more normalised doesn’t mean that it’s trendy.
I am sorry you got punished for stimming, I can relate a little. I was frequently told not to rock back and forth and didn't know I was doing it and felt like I was creepy or strange because of it.
When abbey is by herself she has wonderful thoughtful responses, able to take her time and hold her own, then her mum sat next to her, she speaks for her a lot, talks over her etc
As a 24yo woman who barely functions and is struggling with most things looking for a diagnosis (not just autism but for my chronic pain and other learning disabilities) has truly changed my life and fighting it alone has been very difficult. I think sometimes adults who seek a diagnosis look successful and neurotypical from the outside but we have no idea how difficult functioning is for someone day to day and how that impairs their relationships.
As a late diagnosis autistic I would love to see a middle ground on early intervention vs late diagnosis
Totally agree!
As a late diagnosis ADHDer I fully agree
this
Yes! I was going to say this.
I LOVE THIS IDEA!
The fact that abbeys mom views people who can get a degree, have a family, etc as “not autistic” shows she views autism as debilitating and a block to success/an independent future. And it’s clear she has this mindset about abbey since 1) she identifies her as autistic/“accepts” her autism 2) infantilizes her 3) acts as if abbey can’t speak for herself. This behavior has always been evident on their tiktok. So incredibly sad that it isn’t more noticeable, her behavior is very restricting
I’m sure these comments will be a learning experience for her but I don’t think she had bad intentions with that remark. I think she just meant that because neurodiversity is “trending” and cool now, if you have never needed any help in life, what exactly are you searching for in your desire to be grouped into the label of autism. Maybe there is something else going on like simply a want/need to be different and be seen as different. I see both sides.
YES. she also continuously talked about asperger’s even though she acknowledged we don’t use that term anymore??? there’s a reason why it’s no longer diagnostically relevant and her thinking is so backwards and ignorant.
Did you not watch the show? She talks about that specifically on it. She’s had to take care of her her whole life, that’s a lot for someone to do. And she is excited that she’s finally found a guy that she can start a new way of life with because of it.
Ugh. That's awful. I have a degree and a job and a family, but I am completely overwhelmed by things other people find normal, it's not often for me to cry when a sudden schedule change happens. I've learned to operate in a neurotypical world, often at great discomfort, but that doesn't mean I'm not autistic.
Abbey's mom seems like she's done a hard job for a long time but she's definitely exploiting it a bit.
She really seems like that parent who is using her own daughter's neurological differences as a way to gain fame rather than promoting her daughter's independence.
i just have to say i hate Abbeys moms behavior. She was infantalizing autism and has a very narrow negative view of what autism is. I couldnt believe she said that Abbey was a deficit, How terrible to you be to have to look at your daughter as say shes a deficit. I love how Adin kept relating with Abbey and asked her about her strengths at the end after her mom said she was deficit.
Abbeys mom is a helicopter mom. She seems like she doesn't want to let her go to actually grown up, but also "keep her innocent." She takes over the conversation to keep her silent. She's never going to learn to speak for herself or be independent so that way her mom can honestly exploit her for money. I doubt she's even had a moment of privacy with her boyfriend too. Talk about being frustrated that neurotypical people are playing in roles for people with autism, but her mom is the literal shining beacon for almost everything they were talking about.
Yeah. I didn't like her because of that. I know I shouldn't judge. Like I don't need many accommodations like Abbey does, but her mum reminds me of mine and how she got even more controlling when I got late diagnosed a few years ago. Like suddenly I'm a different person. Suddenly I'm her stereotype on what autism should be.
@@chriswilliam7282 I'm sorry dear..
I really loved this episode, but I hope Abbey's mom re-thinks Abbey's autism as just a "deficit". The way that Abbey seemed to hesitate to agree that autism is a strength just made me think maybe she's internalized some negative stuff about her autism. As someone on the spectrum, I may have less support needs than Abbey, but I know we both have experienced autistic joy. It's truly unique being able to get so much happiness from your special interest, and to be able to present yourself with pure authenticity. Autism is not a deficit, it is simply experiencing a world we were not made to thrive in. I hope she is able to treasure both the differences we have and the challenges.
It's labelled "high" and "low" support needs now. ❤
But Abbey's mom has a LOT of ableism when regarding anyone with abilities beyond that of her own daughter and seems to disparage/ignore how capable Abbey really is.
For sure! This could affect Abbey and probably already is. I think Abbey seems so sweet, and she needs to know she is special, and her being autistic is not a bad thing.
Yeah, I totally agree. I used to really like her mum and wasn’t really understanding why people are so critical of her, but after watching this, I kind of agree. I wish Abbey had done this alone without her mum butting in so much
@@gabriellabermanAbbey autism is a deficit regardless of what anyone thinks. Her life is limited because of it and she lives in a world not designed for her. It’s just a fact.
@@cameronhowe1110 the autism is not a decifit. Some of the symptoms she has from her autism are decifits, but not her autism as a whole. Autism is a part of who we are. Calling our autism a decifit is calling us decifits
I think Chris is one of the most well spoken and calm people I have ever seen. I was very very surprised when he said he was 16
Omg I was surprised too
you obviously haven’t seen many people in your life lmfao🥱🥱 can we stop saying that people who are speaking regularly just because they are on the spectrum are the MOST well spoken and calm people you’ve EVER met. he spoke and acted how every person in the world is expected to act. are we supposed to give him a medal?
@@alexad7592 chris is neurotypical...? he's a 16 yo, that's the impressive part lmao. let the ableism rest for a moment, hon
@@alexad7592 Actually, Chris is not even on the spectrum. You must be living under a rock if you believe that most teenagers are as mature, empathetic and well spoken as he is.
Me too
The “class clown” extrovert mask is so real. That made me cry and question my childhood. I am so deeply exhausted from pretending to be someone I wasn’t for years. I’m finally free.
I love how proud they were in their stims ❤ Like so eager to raise their hands to say “Me too! Me too!” I work with neurodivergent and children with disabilities. My favorite part of my day is stimming with my students and catching up with how they’re doing.
I don't like how Abbey's mom told her where to go. First question she got up but her mom told her to go back and then she waited for her moms decision the rest of the video. I love Abbey so much and think she would be much more independent without her mom lurking and policing her every move.
the mum didnt want abbey moving or being anywhere without her. maybe its a fear response, thinking abbey is so dependent. at the end, abbey sits apart from her mum and the NT(?) tries to swap seats seemingly at the mums behest, but abbey stays the course. it ends up being critical in the end since adin is able to ask abbey directly and abbey doesnt look to her mum for advice.
Omg thanks for pointing that out I just noticed that with the first question, that's disturbing.
She went to the wrong side. She initially went to walk up and changed her mind but went back to the neurotypical side so her mom said go to the other side
Yes, I think her mom saying to go to the other side was completely fine. However, it seemed to me that she changed her mind on going forward because her mom wasn't going forward. When she saw her mom was staying back she stared at her mom, unsure of what to do, and her mom beckoned to come to her. I think she's used to just following her mom's opinions and doing what she says like an obedient child instead of thinking for herself like the adult she is. @@pinkmoonbaby
@@chessmanwriter12you should watch love on the spectrum, you’ll see her mom is very supportive .
Wait did Abbey's mom just ironically stereotyped asd and say someone who is a funny comedian with a college degree, a wife and kids cant be autistic and seeks diagnosis for tiktok attention then ask "Did you even get speech therapy or anything? Why do you seek a diagnosis?" as if every autistic person needs to be like her daughter/need intensive intervention?? And no, people smart enough dont call themselves autistic only because of sensory processing disorder as there is an autism criteria beyond just that smh... Why did noone say anything? Its sad to see that she is pretty outdated. If a late diagnosed autistic person was there im pretty sure they wouldve said something. Its not cool to invalidate other people and accuse them of seeking attention or being trendy...
But what she said is true? People all over are treating autism like it's trendy and trying to be diagnosed or lying and labling themselves just for little quirk they have. Same thing with ADHD. It's ridiculous.
@@sjb5169you have absolutely no proof of that being definitively true or false, as you don’t know any of them individually. So don’t make a claim about something you don’t know
@shelly9 Do you live under a rock? It's obvious that it's become trendy. It's everywhere. There's articles about it. There is a huge increase in people wanting to be diagnosed with stuff or self diagnosing themselves. And multiple people being outted for pretending to have things like tourettes and autism for likes and views. Or People want attention or the need to be special so bad. So don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.
@@kissmyaxe9 I guess my comment got deleted? But just read an article about the uptick in self diagnosis and people faking disorders. It's a huge problem. It's going to make it harder for those adults who really do have disorders and want to get a late in life diagnosis without being dismissed by their doctors that they're just hoping on the trend of it being cool now.
@sjb5169 of course it is a problem, but you can't be sure of that about the comedian or anyone else that you don't know personally. The point of the comment is that the mother based off her experience with autistic individuals on someone else she doesn't know personally.
Thank you so much, Jubilee. I had to respond to this because of my own Aspergers/autism. To me “disability” isn’t offensive because there’s a lack of alternative words that can describe the disabled community as a whole. But I also feel like there’s a lot of internalized ableism out there especially among those with late diagnosed disabilities. I wasn’t properly diagnosed (legally speaking) until 35. So until my late 20s, I just thought I was broken. I have always had a hard time understanding the difference between friends and friendly acquaintances. And the fact that people have consistently tried to fix me or have infantilized me or talked around me for most of my life didn’t really help me “fit in.” I also think that in today’s society, you have to hit a certain level of disability (for lack of a better term) in order to qualify for assistance. But overall I think it’s more about equity than general accommodation. I think we all just need to practice the whole "do unto others" concept.
Having "Asperger's" doesn't automatically mean that a kid has "high intelligence." It's not that they have higher intelligence but have gone very deep into a "special interest."
I hope Abbey's mum reads some of these comments!! Imagine thinking autism has only deficits and saying it about her own daughter - props to Adin for being so empathetic and asking Abbey her strengths. I'm 35 and was diagnosed two years ago, I have a job, a house, I'm married so I guess I'm just doing it because it's trendy, not because support needs change over time /s
Idk, Adin doesn't have to take care of someone who isn't highly functioning.
so how exactly did your life change before and after sonejnd told you that you’re on the spectrum?
I agree. She seems to be gatekeeping diagnostic criteria. Having a diagnosis as an adult can help you understand yourself better, learn to relate to others, etc. "Did they have years of speech therapy?" is a really asinine question. Some "obviously" autistic people never had speech therapy. She's wrapped up in how Abbey and others she knows manifest their autism. I hope she can open her mind to the fact that the spectrum truly is vast.
Also wtf was that about how beautiful Asperger's is?? Does she think her daughter got the wrong kind of autism? It's just weird and gross because by saying successful individuals can't be disabled, you're directly implying your own daughter can never be successful
After describing her brother’s sensory struggles, and seeing her black and white thinking, I would not be surprised if Abbey’s mom is also autistic. So many autism moms have undiagnosed autism, and could never consider themselves autistic because they have a very narrow view of what autism is.
as someone who is autistic (diagnosed late), i think many people look down on others who have autism, and dont admit it. i admire the dude for saying he did!
same, before I was diagnosed I thought I could never be autistic because I had this made up image in my head of what autism was-like people with autism should be pitied. Obviously that isn’t true and I don’t believe it anymore, but that’s what was ingrained in me.
I mean, I think everyone else just wasnt aware of the times in which they have been judgemental. I'd say it's impossible to not be judgemental when "autistic" is treated as an insult or when stimming is seen as childish and weird behaviour...etc. And I'd say it's extremely important to be aware of those times in which society catches us in its web of prejudiced beliefs, because that's when we start to untangle that web.
@@tedddybear I was diagnosed late and this was my exact experience. I'm ashamed that I looked down on them cos I had this stereotype of what autistic people were like
i think that looking down on autistic people is built into our social structures and hierarchies. i remember as a child, and growing up high masking and undiagnosed, i just understood that there were "weird kids" and "cool kids." i knew that i wasn't really supposed to like the "weird kids", and i was supposed to be more like the "cool kids." it's deeply embedded in our culture and in others, even down to our ideas of "cringe," of what's considered cool and uncool. finding out i'm autistic and deconstructing my masks has been very intertwined with deconstructing how i view society and social hierarchy, and how society categorizes people by their personality expression.
I was on a mixed gender mental health ward and no one looked down on autistic patients. If anything we had our little friend groups consisting of people with straight up autism and those with Asperger’s which is now under Autism. It was unique as we were all 20-30s aged.
I think the round-up isn't diverse enough. There are only autistic people who were diagnosed early and neurotypical people with a lot of experience around neurodivergent people. I would have loved to see people who don't know as much on the subject or who were diagnosed more recently to have a wider perspective on the issue and a more interesting discussion (not that their discussion wasn't interesting)
This is an amazing episode for mental "illness" awarness! please make more of these! As I'm not neurotypical myself I would love one about BPD or in general Middlegrounds with different diagnoses like ADHD and BPD comming together talking about their shared and different experiences! I can totally relate to the part that masking is so exhausting that we often look for release in Substances, but that is exactly why we need more awarness, so we don't have to mask all the time and do this hard work just to fit into western society standards...
This would be so interesting!! There’s a lot of misconceptions about ADHD and BPD, and a lot of similarities which people don’t really talk about.
as someone with BPD I would LOVEEE to see a video about this because i feel when we are being represented, we are being misrepresented
this is for adin specifically: you are an absolutely charming individual, sincere and kind and please don't take this lightly because it's not a feeling I get often but I really wish you were my friend. I'm autistic too and I understand that feeling of unbearable loneliness and I understand how hard it can be to make friends, but just know that if you managed to captivate a complete stranger on the internet (me!) then I'm sure there are people in your life who are dying to be your friend! (edit: spelling)
I felt this way too! Idk if it makes a difference but I’m not currently using an autism label, but I am still neurodivergent. I was just really impressed by his level of observation, compassion, self-reflection, patience and kindness. Not to mention how well he was able to articulate those insights, even if that’s not his typical behavior 24/7. He had such a grasp on nuances of topics and obviously thought about them carefully and sincerely, which is just such an amazing trait to have.
@@GamerGirl2347 you said it better than I could. that is exactly it! I'm sure he's not like that 24/7 and I hope he doesn't take it as a sign he needs to _always_ be like that to be liked, but damn I just really liked him lol. just a really cool guy!
I feel you, it’s thanks to people like him that I keep faith in humanity.
And that it’s not just being naive to think there are genuine people trying their best to act with kindness.
waw this makes my heart melt, you give me faith in humans. Thank you for taking the time to highlight someone's journey
Same here! His charm instantly resonated with me. Its very rare that I see someone and wish to be their friend so badly I would be willing to initiate conversation. But thats how I felt listening to Adin talk.
Completely started crying when Adin was talking during the "I have trouble making friends" prompt. He completely summed up how I have always felt, (but the opposite, I am a girl) where girls had bullied me more than boys at my school, and still to this day I have trouble finding female friends but tend to gravitate more towards male friends. Such an interesting realization and I really connected with his words, even the music part.
I relate to you a lot ❤
That was heartbreaking, the emotion in his voice :( I hope he finds the friend group he’s looking for and deserves
I'm the same as you but with drawing instead of music
Abbey's mom reminds me of the therapist who told me I don't seem Autistic and didn't see the need for an autism diagnosis, I now have a diagnosis for autism and can use my sensory aids at Uni!
Abbey is such a gentle soul! I love her shes great, funny too!!
Abbey's mom scoffing at "50 levels of functioning" like it's impossible for 50 different autistic people to have 50 different levels of functioning is so frustrating. Why is she against the idea of a literal spectrum not being "in three different [arbitrary] levels"?
Every autistic person has different visible and invisible traits that are related to their autism, and personally I think that the community is wide enough for us all.
She is just being hyperbolic because she doesn't have an argument without saying things that aren't true.
I think the point is that we need a boundary at some point. She said it herself, not everyone with a sensory issue is autistic. And who benefits from any government aid or healthcare services specifically for autistic people if everyone can claim some form of autism?
Yeah I really dislike this constant point being made in this discussion. Autism doesn’t look one way, that was already agreed upon. I think it’s contradictory to then turn around and insist that we only look at autism one way and try to limit other people’s experiences with it.
@@a.j.mccann4363the boundary should be educated professionals who can help someone navigate getting a diagnosis or not. Unfortunately, there aren’t many of those. Also, they aren’t just handing out support and diagnoses. Specifically because most are uneducated and only looking for stereotypes. I feel there are already so many biases in terms of how autism looks, that comments like this and the ones abbeys mom was making are just harmful. I mean, they are literally part of the reason why so many people go undiagnosed.
I think it's because we still don't have names for a million different sensory disabilities. This is still so new to research when you look at the big picture. So autism will be compeltely different in 50 years than what we see it as now. It'll probably be divided and called many different things other than autism. I have adhd and they just started researching it in women when I was in high school!! So crazy. But I'm sure adhd will also split up and be many different things eventually.
I appreciate Ian's honesty when he said he has looked down on people with autism and it's honestly it's disappointing that no one else came forward. I'm autistic and I definitely have looked down on others with autism. "Looking down on" doesnt have to be something as outwardly discrimatory as exclusion but can be as simple as a negative thought or irritation directly related to someone's autism like Ian had mentioned. I think most if not all of them have been there at least once. We live in an ableist society.. we've been conditioned by an ableist society. A lot of us who do have autism have internalized this and as bad as it sounds, ableism seems to be the norm for most neuorotypicals.
"We live in an ableist society.. we've been conditioned by an ableist society." exactly. it's so important to understand this. we're not taught how to understand or negotiate autism, so of course we've all been in a moment or place of being ableist at some point. similar with racism and sexism, classism, any form of discrimination, we've all had those thoughts and engaged in those behaviours because that's just how our society grinds into our head to be.
agree 🫂
Yup, cant agree more. Being an undiagnosed autistic kid i was almost completely taught to look down on autistic people, so of course i not only internalized it but externalized it and made others feel worse to make sure i fit in. Its not something im proud of but its something i like to share to show that people can unlearn these ableist stereotypes.
i even ended up looking down upon my autistic peers in an attempt to fit in and seem more likeable to my friends.
I agree he was the most honest
Dude, this video is making my cry so much in public 😂😅 I'm expressing it here cause I can't express it to random nearby strangers. Weirdly enough, I love to talk to people, and I'm always eager to help or defend anyone in need. And I'm not here to lie or claim any "disability". I'm here to find where I fit in and where I belong, because I don't feel like I belong no matter where I am other than with my husband and at home
My heart can barely take this but I keep watching. Props to everyone who participated in this important discourse
abbey's mom frustrated me a lot as an autistic. absolutely horrible, and I hope abbey can see who she is without this infantilizing, ignorant person. I SO wish I could be there. lots of harm done by that person, and this is exactly who we speak of when we say "autism moms". the dad however, was really really cool. props to him.
I think she has just faught for help for so long she doesn't know how to let go. She's made it HER identity and purpose. A lot of parents feel this way. She just needs support to let go.
@liandajane3207 while this may be a factor in the way why the mother is like this, the question you should actually be asking is how can Abbey see this behavior, understand what it means, and develop a healthy relationship with the fact that she's autistic? that is a much more important question than the mom letting go of the fact that her child isn't a child anymore, and she cannot therefore have the same approach to Abbey as sue did when Abbey was a kid.
yeah i’m sad she implied that people who have gone a long time without a diagnosis are invalid for trying to get one late in life :( that IS Autism for some people!!
Yepppp! totally agree with you about Abbey's mom. I'm autistic too.
I have an autistic son and cringe whenever I see these moms whose whole identity is their child's diagnosis.
I'm really concerned about Abbey's mom. Since the Love On The Spectrum show she seems like has been speaking for Abbey even tho Abbey at some points has shown being capable of speaking for herself and has shown it over and over. It would be totally fine if she was in the backstage aiding her since Abbey needs a bigger support and at the moment is so dependent of her, but being at her side speaking on things that Abbey could have expressed her opinion really frustrated me. I come from overly protective parents who also spoke for me sometimes and I had to break che cycle at some point because it can become ridiculously frustrating. But IT SEEMS like Abbey's mom never had let her be by herself, not even in a Jubilee video, this concerns me A LOT about Abbey's health in the long term.
Totally, I have been there too. I do wonder if Abbey just wants her Mum to sit with her and Mum just can't keep out of it?
i used to think the same way. but now I have kids and I can see why some parents can becomes "control freak"..is because this kind of situation changes people, when you worry about someone 24/7 for many many years... it's such a weight for so many parents that they are the one who can't let it go.
Agreed!
Tbh I have mixed feelings about this because I feel like both the parents spoke on behalf of their kids and it's not like Abbey never got a chance to speak. They can have different opinions/see things differently.
We spectators cannot know how far Abbey has come because of her mom. Though we see her mom act like a coach, none of us can know whether Abbey has all the lifeskills to continue her progress without her mom yet. So- maybe let them be
I really appreciated this episode, I have been watching Jubilee for a couple years now, and I appreciate a lot of the videos you guys put out. I am not autistic but I have had a lot of learning curves, I already know I don't operate the same, and my processing is definitely slower than most. And recently I have even not talked as much as I usually would in front of some groups including my own family, many times I am too worried about what people are going to say so many times I prefer to not talk at all, but not I am learning to reverse that and really embrace who I am and my set backs.
Chris was so mature, sweet and respectful. A very lovely guy raised well 👏
Abbey wanting to walk forward but the mom giving the eye to not made me feel like she was more controlled than anything she’s more capable then she’s given credit for that made me sad for her honestly.
Do you think Abey's mom could be emotionally exhausted from having someone lean on her like that for so long?
@@diepiriyei feel like thats the case
SAME
I immediately noticed this & didn't know the woman correcting her was her mom.
I understand that Abbey needs an aide, and I can see how her mom is probably overprotective because of Abbey’s needs; however, I didn’t like how Abbey’s mom told her to go back on the first question, how she said she thought autism was not a strength, her weird take on autism being a trend, and how she seemed to control Abbey’s behavior. Having grown up with a very controlling parent, I can see some clear signs that something is off in their dynamic. Does Abbey need a lot of support? Yes, but her and her mom’s body language showed that Abbey’s mother dictates what she should say or do. Abbey looks at her before saying or doing anything. Coming from someone who used to have similar behaviors because I was scared of my parent, that is very concerning.
I believe at the beginning when her mom told her to go back, it’s because Abbey went the wrong way; she was walking to where the neurotypical people stood rather than to the chairs. Interestingly, I perceived much of what you observed differently. I think it can become very hard to interpret situations, especially when autism is involved, as it is a spectrum and each individual’s social profile is unique. Abbey and her mom both explain how she struggles with expressive communication and thinking in categories, so I interpreted Abbey looking to her mom as getting confirmation that what she is adding to the conversation is relevant and understandable. Of course, I could be wrong!
Personally I agree. I don't know for certain but I have seen their content before and found myself feeling unsettled. They seem so focused on Abby being "functional" and "talking normally". She mimics her mum and in their other content might say something and her mum collects her.I mean she's in ABA which I also found hard to hear but she said she liked it. I'm not saying anything for definite! Just explaining my feelings and discomfort which means nothing.
I see what you are talking about. However, she didn't give me the impression of someone on a power trip, but someone who deeply loves her daughter. No parent is going to be perfect. She is still going to have biases. At the end of the day though she seems to understand her daughter extremely well and advocates for her. Look for the things she is trying to control. She is trying to control things to make her daughters life easier. My mom was very controlling, but also didn't pick up on signs that I was struggling. Creating a stable environment for someone can look controlling. You have to look to see if that person's individual needs are being met. The only thing I would push back on is being so skeptical of people getting diagnoses as adults. Not all of us had parents who had the foresight to look after their child's mental health. Not all of us had robust support systems. Getting diagnoses as an adult could help many understand their past experiences from a different lens.
She is not controlling like someone on a power trip she is redirecting and often you have do do this a few times within one minute.. My daughter has severe autism. She can talk a little but not sentences and she's still in diapers. She's 20.
People often misunderstand this type of relationship. I don't know if you are familiar with the expression refrigerator mother. People often call the mom of a child with autism this because they seem cold torwards the child. They don't see them hug or kiss the kid and assume it's cause we don't want them or resent them but we do it for a reason. A lot of autistic kids will freak out and have an episode or scream if you hold them tight or kiss them. It's a sensory issue that they have and it's out if respect and love for them that we don't hug them.
I agree with you somewhat, as someone who also has autism. There were a few minutes where I wanted to say “let Abbey talk for herself!” I can tell that her mother cares for her deeply and has had to help her a lot. That is amazing. Though, I think as Abbey continues to get older, they will need to reassess what is actually working in their relationship and what level of autonomy or dependency Abbey feels comfortable with.
What a wholesome episode!
Lovedddd this whole convo.
Love to Stevo for the realness
And Filly being sensitive is the cutest thing👏🏽
I relate DEEPLY to Adin! I love his way with words as well. He hit the nail on the head with every explanation especially about the difficulty in making friends. My favorite quote was "I only have friends one at a time"; That really resonated with me
abbey's mom gatekeeping autism from lower/moderate support needs autistics is so shitty. mindsets like that is why as a low to moderate support needs autistic person myself, i had so much trouble getting accommodations. because i was able to mask and make myself appear put together screwed me over. i hate this idea that because you can travel, have a job, drive, go to school that you can not be autistic or you don't need accommodations.
Me too
But people like you are the people who typically dominate conversations about autism these days. People with higher support beads have less ability to advocate for themselves in a way that makes sense to other people.
Ok …. So if u can drive, travel, hold a job. Live independently. What accommodations do u need exactly? It’s like showing up to a hospital with a minor knee bruise while doctors are busy doing life or death surgeries and complaining abt having to wait.
I am curious about what accommodations you might need??? Can you let me know?
I do agree with you I just want some more perspective on your story
I can totally relate to Abbey when she said her brain won't do what she tells it to do. As someone with ADHD, I constantly struggle with getting my brain to cooperate as well. It's so frustrating, but it's nice to know that I'm not alone in this experience. Thank you for this video, Jubilee!
ME TOOO
SAME😭
Same, and I also think in categories like Abbey, but I have ADHD and not autism
Fr that's my exact experience. Like on the inside I'm 'normal' and can think coherently but somewhere there's a loose connection and I can't always express it the way I want to.
@@emmacurtis2270 Autism and ADHD and Anxiety all can have overlapping symptoms. Neurodivergence is neurodivergence
ABBY!!! I love how she’s expressing herself on here. She's one of my favorite ppl on love on a spectrum ✨
I feel like Abbey's mom infantilizes her and Abbey is so used to it that she sometimes infantilizes herself. It's sad to watch.
Abbey’s mom’s take on the “trend” of autism bothered me a little bit. You don’t need speech, occupational, etc. therapy to be valid in your autism diagnosis. The diagnosis in itself can be purely necessary for someone’s mental state. I know growing up with adhd, getting that diagnosis at the age of 12 made me feel so much better. I thought I was a failure and couldn’t focus because I was lazy. Learning it was neurodivergence allowed me to accommodate myself more than anything. I don’t have an IEP & I never did. I made it through school with no accommodations from the district. Just knowing that my issues were not based on a lack of will power allowed me to go so much further & believe in myself so much more.
I’m so happy I’m not the only one who had a problem with that. I noticed things different about me as early as grade 3 but never considered myself to be autistic because I didn’t ’fit the bill’ in my eyes because I didn’t act like other autistic kids (the very little who were around me) or go to speech therapy for a long time. But lo and behold years later at the age of 16 about to turn 17 last year figured out I am indeed autistic. It helped me figure out so many things about myself and why I am the way I am
Yeah that mom is such sn Autism Mom. She probably loves Autism Speaks and whines on the Autism Mom reddit subs about how her life is hard.
She is insufferable
@@miik7064I second this.
Not to mention… getting a diagnosis is so so so difficult. It’s so damn expensive. At the age of 18 most people are on their own, most being university students who come from a poor background trying to be financially independent. That’s my story, I’m sure there are plenty others out there who know somethings up and who are experiencing the raw weight of autism or any other neurodivergent “problem”, but they can’t access help unless they get diagnosed.
That should really be studied.
She definitely seemed a bit entitled about her daughter being early diagnosed… which saddens me because in Love on the Spectrum they got to work with a late diagnosed coach 🥲 I’m late diagnosed and it’s really frustrating to hear her say things like that… we aren’t lost causes just because it took us longer to get recognized, we deserve to understand ourselves too.
There should be a panel with self-diagnosed autistics vs formally diagnosed autistics. I think that would be very interesting to see. But either way, next time you do another panel relating to autism, PLEASE include at LEAST one person who was diagnosed later in life. It's a whole different perspective. Late diagnosed autistics need to be heard.
thissss
I think the self vs formal could get a bit dicey and disrespectful personally but I do agree that there should be a late diagnosed person included at least
@@Wildpaw0 Possibly. I think that it would lead others who havent gotten diagnosed medically/professionally in the episode to go ahead and do so, or the others to find resources. I think it would be beneficial for the self diagnosed to see the perspective of the diagnosed.
@@Wildpaw0 I honestly don't think most formally diagnosed people care that others might be self diagnosed. Sure, some people use disabilities for gains, especially on the internet, but most self diagnosed people don't gain anything or post about it. I can't afford 2000 to 5000 dollars for a chance at a diagnostic, I don't want to loose opportunities because of a formal diagnostic, but I need a lot of support to live. I finally found a job that can accommodate my needs, a doctor who seems to at least respect my self diagnosis, i have a partner that is very open and understanding with my disability.
All of those things make my life easier, but there are still many challenges that are lasting whereas others outgrew them.
@@BonkermcbonkSame, everything always boils down to risk v reward. I gain nothing at all from getting a formal diagnosis, I could lose money, but I'm successful enough to not receive any help or accommodations. I was a "quirky" smart kid in the early 00's but I made it through. My kids are diagnosed and receive the help that they need, so I'm happy for that but for me, it's better as a mystery. The people who work around or have worked with autistic people can see it in me, but I can cover well and it hasn't hurt me enough to care if I get the label or not.
For example : I don't hold eye contact, but say it's from the military and I'm just "scanning the crowd" lol. I'd just rather look out than at your eyes to have a conversation.
Abby’s mom reminds me of my mom, and that’s not a compliment… I wish she had more faith in her daughter instead of just looking at her like a project to be fixed
Exactly yes 💯 esp the part of her daughter having a deficit while others with autism just have a difference
It was very heart moving. Love to all of you. I've been diagnosed with the autism spectrum now, turning 40 in two years. Please do more videos show all the shapes of autism. Thx
this is the most grounded and respectful episode of middle ground i think i've seen. everyone is so empathetic and respectful. i want to give all of these people a hug
for real
Me too!!❤
I feel like most of us on the spectrum are highly empathetic because the masking necessitates constant putting ourselves in other people’s shoes to figure out what they want
That's because they're touching on neuro conditions they're born with, whether its ND or NT. Its not a debate where people can really take sides
If they brought on an offensive neurotypical person, I don't think this episode would have been nearly as grounded and respectful
great episode but I hated how Abbey's mom talked about late-diagnosed autistics and high-functioning autistic people as if they weren't "really" autistic. Also those comments about autism being a trend? It really feels like her proyecting her perspective of her daughter's autism onto everyone else whilst at the same time infantilising her
I agreed with her that autism is becoming a trend on TikTok specifically. Similar to how people will call themselves OCD because they’re ‘tidy’ or have ADHD because they consider themselves to have a lower attention span. It takes away from those with an actual diagnosis and can benefit from aid. However, we as viewers can’t specifically judge whether or not someone is being authentic with their self diagnosis or claims. We don’t know their life or medical history. But still, I get her frustration.
@@veeee1584or it creates more dialog and people learn more about the spectrums. This is just full out gatekeeping and gaslighting.
@@veeee1584 if they are professionally diagnosed, they’re definitely autistic. non-autistic people won’t meet the criteria, which goes beyond sensory sensitivity. if they’re not, they can’t access resources anyway, so literally what is the problem with them using the label if it helps them understand themselves and find people who relate to their experiences? everyone seems to say more people claiming an autistic identity invalidates ´real’ autistic people, but no one explains how!
i agree. As a late diagnosed autistic person myself, people often don't know anything about "higher-functioning" autism or lower support needs at all because representation mainly is for medium to higher support needs. Of course we need that representation for autism awareness, but it pushes the narrative that those with lower support needs aren't struggling and are just "a little bit autistic". This whole idea really delayed my personal diagnose process and has made me have severe imposter symdrome. I know im 100% autistic but i still doubt my own diagnosis because of lack of knowledge of higher support needs and because i don't fit traditional sterotypes.
Fully agree. Those comments almost made me cry. It really brought out my own imposter syndrome, even though I was diagnosed at 26. I don't agree that it's trendy but I do agree that their are some who may misinterpret a single "sign" of autism and say, "Maybe I'm autistic?" However, I think other autistic people realize that it's not just one symptom.. it's a lot more than that. But anyways, fully agree. I couldn't stand how she spoke about Abby and late diagnosed people.
These people have hearts of gold. Put a smile to my face several times. Growing up with a cousin with Asperger’s and naturally running across a few people in my schooling through my life who had autism, it really has always intrigued me. Because it is a spectrum, I acknowledge that severity of it plays a big role in how a person is able to operate in life/integrate with society. I understand that for some it certainly may not be seen as a gift, but I do mean it when I say that being able to see the world differently, to think differently about things, to react differently to things, it all is a gift to us as a species. If we all fixate on being the same, and thinking the same way, we never grow.
Abbys mom should not have been allowed in this discussion. It should have been Abby alone with the other participants. She wasnt allowed to voice her own opinion! Why the h*** did you pay for speech therapy if you weren't going to let her talk? Shame on you lady. Furthermore, she caused such a problem that the other great things from this discussion aren't being talked about. So I want to add, this has been the most useful discussion on here that I've watched. I am so grateful y'all did this. I was not diagnosed with my ADHD until my mid 20s and really given no info about it. I'm 51 and just now really becoming educated about it. The last couple of years I've also become sure I'm on the spectrum and have discalculia as well but masked well enough I fell through the cracks. In part, I think because I grew up in the 70s and 80s and am female. I relate strongly to this conversation without going into a lot of detail because I'll give way too much. But it was such a relief hearing others that felt like me.
I really loved this middle ground. But I especially loved the way Adin interacted with Abbey. He found ways to engage with her on the topic in a way that was more approachable to her rather than having her just sit it out!
I agree, it was so lovely. I especially loved the ernding segment where they both sang!
YES I was also going to write an Adin appreciation comment. When he asked her to talk about her strengths at the end in that context it was really kind and powerful. They should do a duet 😤😤😤
Yeah this was great him asking her directly when her mum kept jumping in and answering for her
@@Whirlbee her mom was pissing me off a lot lol
Adin was just trying to get it wet…
Same reason he thinks neurotypical and austitics should date… more opportunity for ole Adin to get it wet.
Abbey's mom is giving such autism mom vibes.
I have a non verbal 8yo stepson, and the way some parents center themselves as if they are victims or warriors just because their kid is autistic is frankly gross. And it makes me worry about the guilt these kids end up carrying because they end up with such self centered guardians.
I am so glad to see this comment/perspective. This is unfortunately so true and common.
Stepson. Ok
Unfortunately you don't sound unbiased. You sound like you have a competitive relationship with his mother. Sorry in advance if you have sole care of him with his mother not involved. But depending on the challenges, it can be a life mission getting an autistic child through the system.
@@nica900weird comment lol.
Hei, you seem to be reading a lot of things in my comment I am not actually saying at all. He's my stepson, the three of us coparent. But that doesn't matter, there's never any reason to center your own struggles as a parent, be it of a neurotypical, allistic child or otherwise. We bring them into the world, we take on the burden of raising them. Everyone knows that having a child means you might have a child that has additional needs. If you talk to autistic adults and other parents of autistic children you'll see this is a reoccuring problem and a damaging thing. @@nica900
So beautiful! Such role models! Thank you so much! I love how everyone was communicating! ❤