Are Wet Ropes Dangerous for Climbers? Textile Science Explained
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- Опубликовано: 5 июн 2024
- Rock Climbing Ropes are made out of Polyamide 6, also known as Nylon 6. Which is a very moody material and like bonding to water.
There is a lot of anecdotal evidence how that effects the Falls for the Climber, so in this video we look deep into science and design an experiment to test it out.
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Camera & Assistance:
Ana bergamaschi, banana___hana, Me
Animations:
Marcos Torroba, Jonny Hyman, Me
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Because that makes a big difference and is the main reason that allows me do this project!
Deep Thanks!
Ben
#climbing
#science 
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This man really went down to the chemistry of rope fibres just for a video. I think we can all agree this man is goes above and beyond for us and he deserves more. Great video
Ya amazing!!
Always impressed by these videos. It's difficult to go so much into detail, while still making it entertaining to watch.
Also, kudos to mammut for being so open about what they do and allowing you to use their facility
Wasn't expecting a chemistry lesson in a climbing video but I absolutely love it. This is the type of in-depth detail I come for
My pleasure as well :D
I'm most impressed with Mammut that they would show these details out in the open like this. That should be the norm, but of course companies are reticent to show actual performance numbers of their products for fear of turning off customers from data that looks "bad" to untrained eyes.
Exactly.. mammut testing is legit..
Sometimes you come across a video like this and it restores your faith in the internet again and makes you double check you are subscribed.
As a engineer and a passionate climber I just love this video. This is really the type of research I‘m interested in.
Amazing Video! The effort you put into the videos shows. Thanks to Mammut for letting you go into their facilities, it is always great when companies are involved with the comunity
I ended up buying a Mammut rope after viewing your last video, it was confidence inspiring to see that testing was actually being done. Thx!
lol you think other manufacturers dont conduct tests as part of product development and quality assurance?
@@FCJxfelp You think every manufacturer has a drop tower where they apply a dynamic load instead of a regular static load?
@@benw1620. Yes I do, If they don’t how will they get past UIAA tests ?
@@oldclimber5502
Those tests are on new ropes, mammut is testing "worst" case senarios. That's what I find confidence inspiring.
Crazy how much more confidence I got on my climbing equipment after watching your videos. That’s something about science huh! Great video!
Wow! Awesome! This is how a book must be written. Deeply detailed but simple and complete. Very nice to see a great collaboration from a branded lab on this kind of topics (why should i ever follow the instructions on my gear :-)).
Very interesting video! Would be interesting to know if wet rope fully recovers its strength when dried or if some of the water remains bonded to the polymer chains in the amorphous sections of the fiber.
Love your videos. Science and fun for safety climbing! Brilliant!
Thank so much Mammut for this collab, from my point of view "meeting" the team and feeling the passion is the little difference that could make me choose Mammut over another brand.
What about bd ropes ? 😂😂
The production quality here is mental
What a channel!.. Thank you for being there, testing those things for others. I hope each manufacturer carefully watches the results and does the same and even better testing in their facilities.
These videos are simply amazing! Thank you for all the time spent for these experiments!
It's always a treat to see a new video.
Thank you for your amazing efforts. It definitely shows in the quality of your content.
Looking forward to the next highly informative video ❤
I have been wondering about this for such a long time. I'm so glad that this video went into so much detail!
Ty for all of the content you have been putting out. As always, I think it's top notch!
You really have a great way of simplfying these theoritical concepts! Awesome work, keep it up!
Man I don’t know how much time you put into this video, but the editing and layout is _AMAZING_
Great video Ben. As always extremely intelligible and helpful.
In my opinion, there is still room for thought and research regarding the long-term damage sustained by a rope from frequent wetting. For example, I am a caver. The environment in which cavers use their ropes is extremely humid. This includes almost one hundred percent air humidity as well as dousing the rope with water directly. We are used to this fact, and in general, the topic of the long-term impact of water is not often discussed. The way we use ropes creates much smaller loads than dynamic catches during climbing. In our case, it is only a question of moving along the rope by rappelling and climbing by ascenders. However, it is not excluded that a dynamic load may occur in the system in the event of anchor failure.
I would be very happy if you could continue the discussion about the effect of wetting the rope. Especially when Mammoth are ready to help with expertise and equipment. If the long-term effect of frequent wetting of the rope is significant enough, this may necessitate more frequent replacement of the ropes and more strict monitoring of their use.
Great job. You've really stepped up every aspect of your videos.
I really enjoyed these videos, great work and very appreciated.
Thank you for getting into the samllest detailes of things. It really helps to understand how it all works, and what to expect out of the gear!
This was incredibly informative and well executed. Chapeau!
Wow, the quality of your videos really is getting insanely good
Haven't even seen the video yet but I can already congratulate you for your work which is constantly amazing
I think this is your highest quality video so far! So cool to see that you sre still steadily imrpoving the quality.
One thought I have is that showing that the force the rope sees is greater in wet ropes doesnt mean the strength that the rope would break at would be lower, just that you'd be more likely to see that force.
Pretty much the worst case would be a crazy hard fall with a fall factor greater than two, like if while belaying off a multipitch anchor the belayer takes hard to keep them off the belay ledge and the first and only piece rips, shock loading the anchor on a short section of rope. Maybe the climber is 4m above the anchor, and during the freefall the belayer takes in a bit over 1m of slack. Total fall factor would be (4+3)/3=2.3. I calculated the peak force for the mammut 9.5 classic I climb with and it'd be about 8.6kN for a 80kg climber. Based on your tests, a wet rope would then see just over 10kn, which is getting into worrying territory for a used rope, or a rope thats seen many falls that day.
Brilliant practical stuff. Takeaways: wet rope catches will be harder and less comfortable, belay device performance will change, and even though wet ropes are almost always safe, there are realistic (but extreme) scenarios in which a soaked rope might make you reconsider.
... and thank YOU for such great videos! Always a pleasure to watch and at the same time learng lot's of interesting stuff!
Very interesting video !! Thank you for your amazing content !!
Your intro explains the rope really well at several different levels of abstraction. Wow! You are making hard look easy!
Again, a very enjoyable nerdy video ! Thanx for your work !
Please keep it up, it’s super informative and inspiring!
Thank u! 😁
I'm always impressed with these companies that respond to youtuber's e-mails, have transparency with their customers, and welcome these tests to create safer products.
Increíble trabajo de producción y documentación 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Great video. Thank you!
Another great video! I really love all the stuff you've been doing with Mammut and really nerding out on ropes. One small tip that would make your data presentation more clear would be to color code things. Like using light yellow for dry untreated and dark yellow for wet untreated, and light blue for dry treated and dark blue for wet treated. That way it's very easy to tell how the data is related in the plots. Keep up the great work though!
Thanks for the tips! data presentation is always kinda tricky :)
I love your videos! Thank you for one more video!
I’m loving your content so much lately!!! It’s always so well made and I learn something every time :)
Sounds like can’t use the “it’s raining” excuse anymore 😂
so much love this videos and how quality of your presentation consistently increases. keep up the good work. Here's a twist on this topic: washing the ropes with detergents and their impact on longevity and performance ;)
Some top level nerding out here, nice one!
Thanks! This is an amazing amount of excellent information that took a lot of work and time! Thank you ever so much!!!
Thank you so much, Walter. I really appreciate it!
High quality content, as always.
Awesome research and video
This goes beyond climbing content. These videos are fantastic science education!
Thanks for neerding around. Tank's for the help to mammut. Seems like the engineers had there fun as well.
You really got into the climbing technology rabbit hole :)
Good stuff!
Yea got even crazier stuff coming :D
Hi Hard Is Easy :) I love your content, I'm waiting for next one episode :)
Mammut gets a huge shout out for product transparency. This video is great! 💯
Amazing video,
Keep it up!
Dang, and I thought the Grigri physics ep was great!! Dude, you've outdone yourself with this one!!
Thanks Ben, amazing video that goes into the atomic structure of things!
Mammut is super knowledgeable Company that does tye utmost for the sake of technological clarity; this is one of the reasons why a MAMMUT rope who I own makes me very comfortable once climbing!
Thanks
Mirko
These lessons are awesome, the climbing theory you didn't know you need. I also wanted to ask you if you've ever used a rope brush to clean the ropes (the helicoidal ones), it makes me wonder whether the dirt goes out or inside the rope. It looks cleaner but some micro particles maybe will be pushed through the outside layer
Honestly I have a brush but never used it :)))) So can't say much, normally I just throw my rope into washing mashine
I really love those physics videos about what will change in certain conditions with your equipment. It really forms you to have more trust in it!
Btw. maybe you have the time in the future for a video idea. It's about all the differnt manufactures giving you special carabiners for their belay devices, rather than just features the biner must have. Would be nice for you to have closer look what the fuse is all about ☺
Excellent video as always
Thank you so much!
It’s interesting, I’ve never thought of elasticity changes with rope getting wet, only weight. Using them in waterfalls is relatively common. With caving, we want our ropes to be static so maybe getting them wet is a good thing!
Thank you again and again for a great informative movie
thanks for sharing all this knowledge.
Great video!
9:27 is amazing! Everyone is looking with awe. That's what science (should) be about, and same with climbing.
Honestly, this is so inspiring. I just had to teach physics today and this is the vibe I try to share. Science is interesting and fun! And of course climbing as well!
Adriana seems to be such a cool person!! Great video, thank you for your work Ben!
I'm a North Wales based climber. We almost always are dealing with puddles of water around crags and our winters are more often than not, only cold enough to freeze at higher levels in the hills. So winter ropes can get a little wet before you reach the colder temperatures.
Almost everyone I know who climbs here uses dry treated ropes outside and most have a short classic rope purely for indoor use.
Having dragged my ropes through many puddles and muddy cracks and grooves (despite best efforts not to!) I will only ever use dry treated ropes here.
A classic rope on a wet belay ledge low down will soak water up instantly just running through a puddle at lead climbing speed. Every pitch after that your rope weighs much more and pisses muddy water as it runs through a belay plate. On the odd occasion I've used (and seen used) classics outdoors here, every time they owner says they wish for a dry rope (or that they wish they remembered their dry rope!).
Great video !! Thanks a lot!!
Nice video! All the nerd bits and the science behind everything (from chemistry, to textile, to testing machines, to force graphs) is just awesome. It is very interesting to see that not only the intensity of the rebound is higher in wet ropes, but the frequency of it falls a bit too. Is this change significant? Is this because the wet rope becomes larger and it just change the frequency as it is for a pendulum?
I would love to have the data base to play and run some models.
Thank you again for the super high quality video ✨
Great video, super informative and well produced! Thank you! As others have mentioned, I would be intrested in the effect of washing on rope longevity. I have previously thought washing is actually good for the rope (since it removes small particles like sand and dirt that caus micro friction within the rope) - but how often can you wash it before it might potentially have an negative effect on the rope's structural integrity?
loving this content
Aaah nice, thanks for support and the message :)
If I remember well, in an other video you said that a dirty rope would wear out faster. I was wondering if it was a good idea to machine wash a rope and if yes, how long would it take for it to dry enough for it to be safe? Would the water damage it even if it was not used while wet?
Thanks for the science!
I was thinking the same thing. Based on his previous video with a dirty rope, I would say that a washed rope is still better than one full of dirt, both for climing and for the lifespan of the rope itself. Now we also know that washing a rope doesn't make it new and perhaps weakens it a little, so it's better to change it after some years.
Consider also that he's making his experiments on multiple very hard falls, something quite unrealistic for the average climber (or at least for me).
As long as you dry yer ropes out properly before using them getting a rope wet won't damage it and washing them with a mild detergent in the washing machine on th gentle cycle (or in a tub by hand) is th normal way to clean dirty ropes, when you dry them you want to leave them laid out with no knots and no tangled sections that create sharp angles in the rope because ropes have "memory" and sharp angles while drying them out can damage the internal fibers
I love your Videos!!!!!❤
Great explication this is science in real expression (yes you could have more vars and test but make this help a lot) thanks!!! 🔥🔥
Sorry, that i took two days to klick. I love your stuff! Keep up the great work❤
Very interesting test !
Water being squeezed out of the rope probably absorbs some of the energy (pumping loss), which would reduce the force somewhat.
Love your videos!
A comparision on what Belay-Device you prefer on what kind of climb for what kind of person would be a great inside for me as a beginner climber
👏👏👏 great video
It would have been interesting to test ropes that had been saturated and then allowed to dry first, and use this as a control versus the rope that was left to dry in the video.
Lovely and nerdy 😂 thank you Hard is Easy and Mammut
Great video as usual! Thank you :)
Are there any plans to create a video about how to safely clean a route and what to do if you cannot finish it?
Essential skill for newbies like myself. I am always nervous when I need to do that. I usually go for a method when you need an extra quickdraw or sling and a locking carabiner.
What method would you recommend?
yeap all of those are on my todo list :D
Thanks so much! Incredible video , very interesting and scientificly! One question please, wetnees doesn't affect significantly strengthens ropes, right?
Hey @HardIsEasy, great video like always! I already got the mammut crag dry rope but where can I find the waterfall multipitch route in Spain? 🤔
Amazing video as always. So with all of this new information, do you still wash ropes? What about ones with dry treatment? Does the interval change?
Thanks, Yes water is not a problem, heavy loading under water might be :D
So washing is no problem - do it on gentle program
Intersting stuff, Scottish winter climbing is certainly one area where you are cimbing with fully saturated ropes (granted many people use icelines)
Great video. Does the rope getting water logged make it have permanent damage, or waterlogged and an impact is what creates the permanent damage?
I ask because of the washing ropes.
Another great deep dive. Thank you! I really don't see why anyone would buy a non-treated rope that they will use outside. How many places can you climb outside where there is no risk of dirt, abrasion or water? Dry treated ropes help in all of these situations, and not just safety but lifetime of your rope.
2:09 Hey, little info from puritian chemist. What you showed is single mer, which is a part of many (poly) mers. You can synthesize polymer by reaction between monomers, which are single molecules. (For Nylon 6 it is caprolactam it polymerizes in ring opening reaction)
Danke!
Very intrrsting test and resuls. Now I'm wondering, how a sandh rope would compare. Is definitely more abdasive but how hard would a fall be, how much damage does it to the metal parts after a couple of falls and how much sand can be removed with washing it? We have a lot of sandstone here and sometimes washing it once is not enough to get close to clear water.
Hello :) I have a question i hope you can help me with. The hydrophobic properties of a dry treated rope decreases over time. But is it possible to re-impregnate the rope with a hydrophobic wash? f.ex. like one does with gore-tex jackets. Haven't been able to find anything about this from rope manufacturers. Thank you! And of course, awesome and very interesting/usefull videos you produce!! Best regards, Martin
Great video, Ben! So it seemed that washing a (classic) rope affects its performance on a fall even after drying it? What about different kinds of dry ropes? If read that same manufacturer only do a sheath impregnation.
What’s a great video! So, next important question is: how does behave a rope not climbed in wet conditions and dried but washed in washing machine (according to rope manufacturer)?
Hi!!! Wonderful!!! Thank you for this video!
Really interesting video! Thank you so much!
I actually thought about the conclusion, that the ropes are damaged after wet falls. In the video, it looks a bit like it has been dried under tension (14:20). Is that the case? If no, nevermind, but if yes: Could this drying (or even hanging) under tension be the cause for the harder fall?
Amazing video :)
But is it known something about rope tests in winter when the water crystallized?
thank you
It would be vital to know after how many falls a wet rope breaks compared to a dry one!
Hello @HardIsEasy!
How do kN compare to G-forces, and/or do they compare at all?
Absolutely great video(s), and to all the haters/complainers: try to make this high-quality and free content yourself. ❤🧡💛💚💙💜
Thanks!
Man, I would love this level if analysis with arborist ropes.
Please, please, share the error bars!!!
It is crazy that you do all the work with statistics and then do not claim the glory!
... Great content, btw!
Some criticism, please read till end!
Hi, great video and what a enormous effort in testing! Thank you for that!
There's one conclusion in the video the appears partially wrong to me though:
You speak of permanent damage after the first test with the formerly wet rope that dried over night. But you have not tested a dry sample from the day before as a comparison. I'm not shure if you are just assuming, that the rupe completely relaxates over night after having been droptested several times. Even if that was true, you're missing the effect that tightening knots have on the test results. They do not relax, in my experience.
If you have any background information or thoughts on the above, that just didn't make it into the vodeo, please share!
Thanks in advance for your constructive reply!
Yes, our tests were not designed to show permanent dmg, that one drop we did was unplanned, but I suggested to still drop it the next day and as I said in the video it's only a hint of possible permanent dmg, more tests needed to do a full claim for sure.
Linkėjimai, Benukaaaiiiiiii! 🙂