The Last Unsolved Problem of Climbing Ropes
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- Опубликовано: 31 май 2024
- Why is Cut Resistance of Climbing Ropes still an unsolved problem?
Science, Testing Methods and upcoming new technologies.
New Mammut Core Protect Ropes:
www.mammut.com/int/en/product...
www.mammut.com/int/en/product...
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00:00 Intro
02:00 History
05:05 Kernmantle Technology
07:54 Cutting the Rope under different Tensions
10:58 Dyneema / Aramid in Ropes
12:51 Testing Methods
16:01 Study on Microscopic Cut Patterns
18:06 Granite Edge Test
28:31 Belaying affect on Cut Resistance
32:31 Sharp Carabiner Test
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References:
Cut resistance of climbing ropes - A comparative analysis of existing measurement methods and a simulated accident - www.sciencedirect.com/science...
Michele Caminati's rope shears as he falls off Elder Statesman (HXS 7a) @teamBMCTV - • Michele Caminati's rop...
Old Climbing footage from Movie: "Encordades" - catalanfilms.cat/ca/produccio...
Making Nylon @ Carleton University - • Making Nylon @ Carleto...
Glacier Training footage from @walterrossini - • Crevasse rescue practi...
Cut Resistance of Ropes: Part 2 | EDELRID Knowledge Base by @edelrid - • Cut Resistance of Rope...
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Camera & Assistance:
Jakub Novák, Marcos Torroba, Samuel Tuor
Animations:
Marcos Torroba, Ben
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And Special thanks to all good people supporting me via
/ hardiseasy
or
hardiseasy.com
It makes a huge difference for my ability to continue making videos like this
Deep Thanks!
Ben
#climbing #science 
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We are reaching award-winning documentary level of production. Another amazing video. Glad you are back!
MY NAME ENTRY:
"MAMA ROPE"
It wraps its arms arms around you and protects you!
Marketing Bonus: It sounds a little similar to Mammut!
Genuinely super cool for Mammut to be that open to their labs, products, top employees, time, and access. I have zero affiliation with them nor allegence to them, but this level of openness is the kind of thing that will sway me in a store when making a buying decision. I hope other companies follow their lead. Very cool video and very informative, I definitely learned something today and had fun watching.
I hear you. I went to one of their (basically free) avalanche safety classes last winter and it was honestly refreshing. They gave most of the time to a mountain guide to talk about tour safety, planning and theory instead of pushing their products. They also presented some products but it was barely any time used for that and it was mostly on a basis of: learn to use this device - you don’t have to buy it from us, just buy one from any manufacturer for your personal safety and learn to use it well. This really built my trust in the brand and it’s ethics.
In my experience, their ropes are the best
Mammut has chalk for a great price to
You can easily tell those are the kinds of companies that just want their customers to succeed and the products often reflect that with their quality.
"First your back will snap *giggle*" 😅
33:30 "it looks very violent" hahahahaha
real cringe
2020: I only watch science channels on YT
2022: I only watch science channels and Hard Is Easy on YT
2024: I only watch science channels on YT
he came back as gandalf the white, full of wisdom
except he can't do math.
According to mr Gandalf 2024 minus 1964 is 80.
7:28 "Ok in 1964 we got the first rope that is certified.....to not break our backs
And now 80 years later and we still using the same technology."
@@mikel.mp4
As someone who broke each leg in 6 places after a 10m fall when a system failed, this Mammut rope might get me back, but it does come in 11mm (😅-;. As for a name, the mushroom.
i have to ask: did you walk after you broke each leg in the first place to reach the second place?
And what is the point to visit 6 places to break each leg?
Are you addicted to pain or something?
I only broke my arm in 1 place. The doctor said i should never go there again.
So i won't
@@markwarne-smith4560
Rope named Reinhart - because "man fällt gerne rein, hart" (you like to drop in, hard).
Thanks for all the work invested! I am really thinking about becoming a member of your channel, as there is so much professional content.
Thanks for that! means a lot for me!
@@HardIsEasy Did not choose the member-way, but the "Mini-Support" should help as well. Keep up the good work! I am looking forward to seeing new content!
I like the way you are thinking. Only one drawback: I dont like to fall hard but rather the opposite :D
Haha, perfekt, kann mich aber noch immer nicht entscheiden ob ich den trockenen Deutschen oder schwarzen Englischen Humor besser finde 🤔👍
I hope we can get some independent testing from someone comparing Edelrid's Protect cut resistance dynamic ropes with this new Mammut line. I understand these manufactures (with a long competitive history) are wary to even mention competitor's products, but it did feel a little weird for them to talk about Edelrid's cut testing method but neglect to mention that Edelrid has already been producing dynamic ropes with aramid for a few years now, and this seems to be Mammut's response. Undoubtedly it's a win to now have multiple manufactures making cut resistant ropes, but it seems like being able to compare them head to head would really push them to make even safer ropes.
Perhaps we have to look to the "How NOT 2" channel testers for cross-brand comparison break tests?
The subscription slo-mo was superb
I almost hit the button and unsubscribed because of the tension
Trippy af
Ben, This kind of failure mode is why cavers are often utterly borderline paranoid with respect to edge friction and rubbing. Sure, we're usually using static lines, so dynamic concerns duly noted, but we're not shy about taking an extra ten minutes (or ten hours, for fixed lines) to set a rigging with the least rope-rub possible for very good reason.
Thank You for spending the time on this one.
Can't tell if this made my fear of a cut rope better or worse but thoroughness of the testing is always impressive!
I'd name my rope "Knot A Frayed" and hopefully it would inspire me to climb with less fear.
a frayed knot
@@beyondthepale2023a piece of string walks into a bar...
That's amazing!!!
29:00 “Yeah that would suck.” (No other reaction and continues snacking) 😂😂😂
Why didn't they put some mats under our poor science guy like why, there was also that red metal piece he could've fallen on it lmao.
Excellent video Ben, it was a pleasure to help out on this project with the slow-mo. That said I am now a full time boulder bro haha.
Hahaaa nooooo whyyyy? :DDDD
I call my 9.8mm rope "Hubby" (Husband) because he's reliable and a good catch.
Great vid as always, 4 months was worth the wait! keep it going!
Such a pitty that the edelrid Swift protect pro dry wasn't in the video for comparison (it has some aramid fibers woven into the sheath).
PS the glacier cord was breaking lower than it's MBS due to the knots that really should be said in the video I think.
But great work keep it up 👏
+1 about the elderid swift protect,
+1 I was thinking the same!
+1
I mean I can understand why a company that makes ropes will not show a competitor’s rope. If it preforms well than you risk sending business to the competition. If it preforms poorly than it is looked at as crapping on the competition. It’s best to leave that to a third party
1+
Swift protect
Huge props for doing this video! I've always felt like people focus a lot on gear that has a 20:1 safety ratio while the only non-redundant system we use (the climbing rope) can be cut by sliding over an edge the wrong way. This is about as scientific as you can make a test like this
Non-redundant you say? Laughs in double-rope UK trad!
@@DeShark88 Look and ye shall find: Doubles can be cut in the same way-it only works as intended when the climber has proper training and the environment of the climb permits "proper" placement.
Gleipnir is the optimistic rope name I use, Gleipnir was as light and thin as silk but strong as creation itself and made from six impossible ingredients, so quite a good name for a composite rope. In Norse mythology it was used to to bind Fenrir the wolf.
YEEES
I will use that!
thats a great name.
This one has to win! Gleipnir, genius! Forged from women's beards and fish breath.
Great comment!
really smart move by mammut.
best advert for a rope ive ever seen haha.
super interesting video but would have really liked to see how the new rope does on the abrasion tests.
Rope Name: Ropeunzel, hoping that there will be no other Grimm Tales from using it! Especially apt for my yellow\golden rope!
😂🤣😂🤣
Awesome work (despite the obvious fact that it´s Mammut advertising). That being said, what´s more impressive is how important is a good soft catch. I would say that every climbing instructor and every indoor climbing gym owner should see this and teach how to properly soft-catch
10/10 phenomenal. The balance of curiosity, fun and facts was a masterclass in engineering/design communication. Best video of 2024?
❤ your work man. Thank you
Ah that's cool to read!
I call my rope "God" because it decides whether I get home alive or not.
Anyway, thank you very much for the commitment and time you put into your videos, which are always top quality and very much appreciated by the science nerd in me. Keep going!
A friend of mine just broke their spine and became paralyzed from a rope rubbing on a sharp rock when taking a whip, thank you for the info!
The overlength is super smart. My first thought was some intermediary kevlar sleeve but I figured you'd just need to have some means for it to stay fixed while the nylon stretched into an "unprotected zone". You only really need the cut resistant fabric at a fixed point where the pressure is being applied. But obviously friction between the layers wouldn't really allow the nylon to stretch properly, so this is a really neat solution
This is such a cool video. The context that is necessary to understand why all the components of CoreProtect need to be there was presented so well.
And yes, how all the ropes just *snap* at 3kN tension is super scary. Ugh.
My rope deserves a full name, maybe something like Ropert Notfrayed
I love it.
There are so many people working there with so much love for detail and for the sport and to make sport safer for all of us...I would call it heart core.
Rope name: Cubia. In my region in italy, "occhi di cubia", was the name for these 2 drawn eyes in front of the boat where were 2 holes where the ropes for the anchors where going through. The fishermans of a century ago were beliving that these 2 eyes could guide the boat and navigate along the right routes, avoiding pitfalls and dangers. So like in climbing you wish ur rope will not snap or get damage to the point of a bad injury. Very Very good video after long time of absence!!
Do you or Mammut have data about the cutting resistance of two half ropes? They are more likely to seen in multipitching where the sharp rocks are. And again, very nice video! Thanks for your work with Mammut. My Rope is called Richi. The Swiss people will understand :D
Such a cool video Ben! Thanks man.
You have to love Mammut for so much honesty and passion. Big up Mammut!
production level, easily digestible information (originating very technical concepts), the walkthrough on the history of ropes/materials, entertainment value, real life applications, etc... 100/10 !! You've outdone yourself on this by far. This is the kind of content that truly reaches and teaches people. Thank you!
Well, as a Rope Access technician that uses only 11mm, that 10.2mm result really makes me feel a little bit safer for sure! Amazing video, dude!
Ropey McRopeface is really the only correct way to name a rope!
Amazing video by the way, the production value is incredible!
You never fail to deliver with the level of detail and analysis you do. As a professional data product manager I can say you nail it when it comes to research analysis.
Oh and for a rope name, "Bo Dangles"
So nice to see old-school climbing videos of Montserrat at the beginning 🙂
this video has had the most impact emotionally for me, in 2018 I watched as my top rope sheath opened up when i pendulumed just below the ledge near the top of the route. I want cut resistant ropes for single pitch and top rope climbing now. Call it, Stinky Slinky or Pink Panther
This is really cool for Mammut to bring us in and see everything. I really appreciate that they share the knowledge - and the shortcomings of the industry and how honest they are with how difficult it is to test for everything well as well as showing their attempts and covering the issues they experienced. It really shows they care about their customer's safety and how seriously they take their rope engineering. With all this information out there, there's bound to be someone who may see this and come up with a better standardized test for some of these hard to solve cases. Thank you Hard Is Easy and Mammut!
I jummared up to the bivy ledge on leaning tower in the dark a while back (from the top of the second pitch to the bivy at the top of the fourth). Slow climbers infront of us prevented my partner and I from climbing as quickly as needed, but they agreed to fix our haul rope so we could jug it rather than waiting for them to finnish. Unfortunately the rope was fixed over an unseen edge in the dark. I started ascendingt by lowering out 40ft from the wall and procedded to jumar 150 ft up to the point where the rope passed over the lip (about 30 down from the ledge) , and when I got there the sheath was 90% cut. I saw this not quite understanding it, but was able to detach one of my ascenders and place it above the damage about the same time I fully understood how lucky id been. Spent the next few minutes saftley nestle on the bivy ledge repeating the scene from Eiger Saction. In an Austrian accent - "there was a frayed end in your rope, I was just cutting it out"
That's awfully terrifying.
Damn, what a production.
Thanks to everyone supporting this guy!!!
Another awesome and informative video Ben! I enjoy you channel immensely, looking forward to your next vid!
Thank you for your exceptionally comprehensive and professional work Ben, please keep it up!
The mammut granite edge test would be interesting with double or twin ropes. Best case scenario, the load is distributed equally in both ropes, which would significantly improve the cut resistance.
When I trad climb I use two half ropes. Less rope drag, shorter falls, longer rappels.
two ropes share the load when falling and force acting on the rope was one of the most important factor on how much it could resist cutting. Two thinner ropes with 2KN each might be better than a single thicker rope at 4KN. This rabbit hole goes deeper
Yes actually out of all reported accidents there is only few cases where both strands of double ropes failed.
So it's much safer.
That doesn’t quite work.
With half rope technique, you don’t (normally) load them both equally. At best, you are clipping alternately left and right. So when you fall, the rope you last clipped takes all the force, unless you fall far enough that some load comes onto the other rope.
Twin ropes technique, where the load distribution will be much closer to equal, and therefore about half what of the load on a single rope would be, might offer an advantage.
Now that many ropes are double or triple certified, you can find a slightly thicker rope, that is still rated for twin rope use.
@@tjb8841 Ah but still, odds of a rope running over an edge and cutting during a fall, maybe 0.25% (One in 400 falls, tbh it's probably less than that). Odds of two ropes running over two edges and cutting during a fall would be 0.25% squared, or 0.0006% (One in 160,000 falls).
@@HardIsEasy as you can clip both ropes intoonly one quickdraw (twinrope technique) or in seperate ones (halfrope technique), i am pretty sure mostly both strands failed, wenn people clipped them parallel in the same carabiner, pulling the rope over the same edges, or being hit by a single rock fall.
That´s why i like clipping the second rope into other quickdraws. usually one to the right and one to the left.
Not sure if at all a accident happend this way yet.
I bring my half ropes together wherever I can and tend to split them only when needed. It takes some care to think about not dying in a fall as well as solving the technical problems right in your face. Old climbers are the ones who worked out the balance :)
The name of my rope is "Weather Forecast" because it always lets me down
You again managed to amaze me with your video! Loved it :)
I have been waiting so long for a new video! Amazing one as always!
Another amazingly well done video, super fun to watch and *very* informative. Last week I purchased a Edelrid rope with the protect technology and was thinking about this sort of things since then, this video was the nicest thing I could expect from RUclips (thanks to you), felt like receiving a gift. Thanks a lot
ah thank you a lot!
As usual, great content presented in a great way. These series of videos increased my gear knowledge times fold and I'm super thankful for that!
This was such an informative and captivating video. I've never even thought about any of this stuff before. The pacing was spot on dude 👍
Yet another in Ben's series of doctorate level research into climbing. This is exactly why I patreon you and recommend everyone who can afford it (really it's just the price of a cup of coffee per month) to do so. Invaluable!
What a great way to market a new product. Not saying that in a bad way either - all this info and such amazing production value and ALSO showing a new product which directly combats this problem. So cool
I actually named my Mammut crag dry "Risikolebensversicherung" (term life insurance) though after watching this video I'm kinda second guessing this decision haha. My Zopa has yet to be named, I'm open for suggestions. :D
Also thank you so much for your amazing work. Always amazed!
You, sir, are producing some of the most important climbing science content of modern times. This video is simply incredible. Thank you for all your hard work.
awesome production quality as always, and an amazingly interesting story. cannot wait to get my hands on this new rope!
Thank you very much and thank Mammut for all these tests and explanations !! Amazing job !
Hey, I just want to say thank you. Firstly for all your great videos, I have really learned a lot about climbing and have become a better climber and above all a safer climber, a better belayer.
This whole video series in cooperation with Mammut has also turned out really, really well. Even though I used to rely on products from other companies, I really have to praise them for devoting so much time and resources to your videos. I find it very exciting to see how they test and develop their products. So thank you Ben, thank you Mammut and thank you to everyone who was involved in the background on camera, editing and creating the videos.
This is great content (as always), thanks for putting in the time to make these.
Amazing :) I am happy that all my 4 ropes are Mammut and you have convinced me. I am looking forward to change my current 70m rope soon with an 80m 9.5 Core Protect :D
This was a fascinating video, very well scripted and edited and produced, and highly informative. Thanks.
I'll go with "Shomi Th'Ropez".
Excellent video and really confirmed my suspicions about sharp edges on rock. Beginner sport routes actually end on plateaus or lead over sharp corners quite often in my area and I've always found it a bit sketchy because beginners are less likely to avoid the worst with soft catches and such.
Woah, big kudos for putting this together! Amazing content.
Arborists buy monster static ropes because of the abrasive environment.
Thank you! I have wondered about the new Mammut rope.
Thank you very much for the hard work.
It was realy full of new and old stuff to reconsider.
The "sharp" edge is sometimes, on first sight, very dull.
Loved it!
Thank you for your work, diving ever so deeply into climbing science to raise awareness and make us safer !
that are the kind of video that make me feel more secure while climbing. I hate when i dont know how something I use works in depth. I really like the scientific takes of this video. Hope to get more content like this :) thanks!
I think one of the best ways to mitigate sharp edges while climbing is to use two ropes in "half rope" configuration, rather than "twin" configuration, so one rope will have a tension point below the other, and will likely (hopefully) miss the sharp edge that cut the first rope. Either way, two ropes are still better than one for sure since two 8.9mm ropes give you 17.8mm of total rope diameter that you have to chew through to die. I currently use two Edelrid swift protect ropes (the one with aramid sewn into the sheath), and I'm interested to check out Mammut's cut resistant rope that you tested. I also do a lot of lead rope soloing so anything I can do to mitigate edges I'm all for!
Fantastic episode, I feel like this should get some sort of an award.
wow excellent video once again! this information feels so vital to understanding safety in falling, much much more than simply breaking strength
That was a really great video documentary about the technology aspects of modern time rope solutions.
This was solid work man. Well done!
Excellent video, I've learned so much in just 40 mins, this is quality content!
A couple years ago I climbed the multipitch route Alhambra in Tessin with my brand new twin ropes from Mammut. At the end of a nice climbing day without falling there was a place to rappel down. The surface of both ropes damaged so badly just from pulling down, that I never used them anymore. I cutted the ropes in 2m sections and threw them in the thrash can. I was so angry that I haven't bought any Mammut ropes since then. I hope the development shown in the video continues to have better products on the rocks for climbers.
This was scary and also reassuring. Thanks for the great deep dive into abrasion resistance and rope dynamics!
What an excellent amazing superb video! Congratulations for the science, the editing, the whole of it!
Except for the unbelievable amount of work you put into doing the videos (thank you for that!) I must admit I like the openness of Mammut more and more. This is like Open Source Software - nothing to hide.
Really great video! I had no idea of such a danger! This changes everything.
Wow! This was incredibly well done and super interesting!! Tysm for this 🙏
First time I ever watched one of your videos. Excellent.
OMG you are so lucky to spend so much time doping so many amazingly interestning experiments, and participating in them !!!! such a lucky man !:!!!!
Nice video! Perfect infotainment/docutainment :))
The amount of time You put into these are crazy. Even though I don't really care about ropes, it caught my attention and watched it from beginning till the end without distractions.
BRASIL!
Reilly the reliable rope.
This video was such an entertaining way to present science. Great work!
Always very interesting info. Thank you!
As someone who does a lot of top rope soloing (since becoming a Dad and losing by belay partner 😅). This is invaluable. I always knew edge protection was important, but this highlights it impeccably. Thank you and well done 👌👏
*shared to the TRS facebook page
This was a really cool video. It is very interesting to see advancements in rope technology
Thank you for this excellent video ... for science, and climbers' lives!
While I was living in South Africa, there was a terrible climbing accident where a female climber survived the fall but was swinging around under an overhang, in the wind. As she swung, the rope was moving back and forth over a gently curved edge. Rescue was not possible for various reasons and she had no way of ascending the rope. Slowly, as she shouted for assistance and people watched, helpless, the rope wore away and she eventually fell to her death as it cut through. I have never forgotten this: chillingly, as she realised that no help was possible and the rope was wearing through, she stopped shouting and went silent, making her peace and waiting for the end.
This is simply the biggest step forward in rope design in a generation.
Congratulations Mammut! I've used their ropes for years; they've always been my favourite.
I was climbing in southern England recently and my rope was bent over a rock edge approximately as sharp as the granite in the final tests in the video. I was not happy! I changed from a relatively bold climber into a gibbering mess, largely because I had no realistic sense of how dangerous a fall would be, but I felt it would not be good!
I would buy one of these ropes in a heartbeat, and in 10.2 mm!
Mammut only make them 8 mm and 9.5 mm at the moment, but I think a lot of climbers would be very happy with the extra security of a 'core protect' 10.2 mm.
This kind of thing is why cavers are often utterly borderline paranoid with respect to edge friction and rubbing.
Why didn’t the belayer lower her ?
@@d.s.4297
Very good question. I don't know the precise circumstances, but the story is true as far as I know; some trusted climbing friends told me.
@@d.s.4297 There are some pitches that are almost exactly one rope length long-when climbing them one must always be able to ascend the rope. The belay side of the rope also could have become jammed, preventing lowering.
Technically anyone lead climbing should know how to ascend the rope and self-rescue, but almost no-one ever bothers to bring the required pieces of accessory cord with them. Since they don't practice, and don't bring the cordage anyway, the knowledge fades and I don't think I need say any more than that.
Yooo the fact that knowledge travels like this for free and i dont have to go to mammut factory to test this is wild. Also blessings to ben always a few insights richer after watching your videos!!!
Soperb video, thankyou! I would call that new rope 'Dynastic'. The middle sheath being Dynamic plus Static. Also some word play around dynasty and a long legacy.
Wow
What an awesome video from you, and what a perfect commercial from Mammut.
I like this a lot!! All the commercials should be like that!!
Congrats Ben a great video again!!! Watched 100% at normal speed!!! ❤ I will call my rope « Nun Cho Ga » as it is name of the first intact baby mammoth found in North America, thanks to thousands of years of permafrost freeze.
Very, very interresting. As usual.
Thank you very much !
My ropes name is Alex Honnold.
sometimes when i mention i’m taking it climbing my friends get overly curious and excited, couldn’t figure out why.
🙏Thank you So much - I love your video's. Informative, entertaining, practical, addressing the most interesting topics, just right.
I named the thick 12mm rope “Mountain Tamer”. The 9.8mm climbing rope is called “FelsFreund Flexi”. This name combines security and strength through “rock” and “friend” conveys reliability. "Flexi" stands for lightness and freedom and gives the whole thing a humorous touch.
Thank you for the interesting insights and the nice video.
I'm sure working at Mammut involves all of the usual jobby things that every job involves. But I prefer to imagine it's half this joyful experimental testing work and half crazy materials engineering work and nothing else. I'm glad they've opened up their facilities and staff in this way. Knowing our equipment, and how the people who work on it think about it, is good for everyone. Another great video!
With regards to whether the tests can be reused elsewhere. Mammut needs to reach out to the sandpaper industry to find out 1) how they measure the accuracy of the grit on their paper, and 2) how to consistently represent that roughness. They do have standards for the roughness of the papers (termed grit) and need to have a way to test that.
It seems to me that you can keep the same geometry of the test shape, but swap out to the granite for an equivalent amount (or average) grit in sandpaper. That would allow the test to be more universal and describable so others can test the rope.
very interesting! Thank you for sharing
The ropes and other materials nowdays are incredibly sturdy. We are towing 800kg gliders up at a 80 degree pull angle... Resulting in probably around 1000kg force. With 6mm dynema static rope, it could hold 4 times the force... Climbing rope is different, but still incredible tech. I hope they figure out a more safe rope as soon as possible, incredible work by all the sides. And a very good documentary! I only realised it was 40 minutes after I've already watched.
Mine is named David Dunn !
Every day checking the channel waiting for the next video and being happy to not find anything new, knowing that you were cooking this top end quality content
Soft belaying seems even more important now
Enjoy ❤
Excelente vídeo. Un gran trabajo¡
This is really an amazing video..lot of insights
Mammut did a great job..thank you.
I go for shoelace.. :D
It would be quite interesting how a double/twin rope would behave in the drop test over the edge.. very interesting video!
Great video, thanks for this.