Surprising Effect of Dirt on Climbing Ropes
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- Опубликовано: 5 июн 2024
- A lab experiment to determine the effect of dirt on Climbing Ropes and is Washing your Climbing Rope a good or bad idea?
00:00 Intro
01:52 New - Classic - 65 Cycles
05:44 Black Streak
06:25 New - Dry Treated - 65 Cycles
08:59 Used - Dry Treated - Dirty - 185 cycles
11:50 Used - Dry Treated - Washed - 185 cycles
12:56 Used - Classic - Dirty - 125 cycles
13:54 Used - Classic - Washed - 125 cycles
14:55 Chalk effect on Rope ends?
16:07 Is washing the Ropes bad idea?
Big thanks @mammut for letting me to nerd with their engineers and toys
If you are getting value out of my videos and wanna feel good - consider supporting me: hardiseasy.com
Because that makes a big difference and is the main reason that allows me do this project!
Deep Thanks!
Ben 
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TLDR if you're hurried: Dirty or chalked ropes frayed much faster than clean ropes in stress tests . "Dry-treated" ropes, treated with a chemical to resist water and dirt, were somewhat resistant to this effect, but dirt and chalk still made them fray faster. Washing ropes does help protect ropes, but don't climb with a wet rope or you'll damage it, and likewise don't use a heater to dry the rope.
thank you internet person. very cool
thank you internet person.
Thank you, saved me 20 minutes
Thank you so much!
Thank you I was in a hurry
I gotta say, knowing Mammut is willing to allow you to go through all of this makes me want to give them my money when it comes to buying ropes
Me too. Thanks Mammut, for supporting Ben's work. And of course, it goes without saying, many thanks Ben!
fknah
or maybe they're going through all this effort to justify the poor quality of its recent ropes...(I bought one recently and its deteriorated super fast) they should repeat these tests with other brands
Will be money well spent, I love their ropes!
@@twobrokenlegs13 do you work for them? Many people recently saying their new ropes are terrible, one even saying that Mammut ropes recently bought for a gym are also disintegrating choss, and there is not a lot of dirt in gyms
As a user of Mammut ropes in some pretty abrasive conditions, I want to let you guys know that I buy your ropes specifically because they hold up to abrasion better than other company's ropes in my experience. Just wanted to let you know your hard work in the lab is paying off out at the crag!
I hope they are giving you a bonus. Jokes Aside it seems like a good product.
my experience is completely the opposite! was just scroling down to type that I bought a brand new rope and in just two weeks have had to cut it! posted about it on instagram and had several people replying (from places as far as the US, Thailand and Jamaica) saying their ropes had deteriorated extremelly fast too! I bought a Mammut rope 12 years ago and it was absolutely fine but this new one has been absolutely terrible, I have another Sterling rope that has been exposed to the exact same dirt and conditions and climbing which is a month older and is looking as good as new...
You may also try gottifredi maffiori ropes, also Samson ropes is a great dealer
@@facelesstraveler Not an accusation toward you, but are your absolutely sure you didn't end up with a Chinese counterfeit rope? It happens a metric frackton. Fake car parts, fake tools, fake infrastructure electronics (telco routers), fake clothes, fake food items. In fact I can't think of a category that isn't fighting a tidal wave of Chinese counterfeits.
Same here. Have a Mammut Rope for over 15 years. It's not looking new but it's not worn at all!
I don’t climb or use any equipment like this, but it’s always good to educate oneself especially with such quality educational content as yours, friend. Thank you for all the work put into these videos
Same & agreed!:D
You dont need to be a climber for it to be useful information, in my opinion. Because it's useful information in other scenarios.
Also you can always give that information to other people you know to help them out.
Free solo!
You said what i was about to say ... Thank you for the comment and thank you guys for the video its so good to learn new things even if you will never use it
I have a long dog leash made out of similar rope material so this info could probably apply to it.
As someone who worked as a carpet cleaner, it is incredibly difficult to explain to people that some areas of the carpet simply will never look lile new because of how extreme abrasion can effect the look of carpet, and how it reflects light back at the eyes.
The damage can sometimes be so extensive that old dirt goes all the way down and damages the carpet glue that holds it all together.
Carpet glue?
… 😞. That’s sucks to hear. I still use my mothers carpet she got when she was 20 so they are 50 years old and look new. They’ve moved 3 countries and have outlived her.
Sometimes just buy for sustainability.
I think they were made in some Turkish village, (or factory), but definitely visibly hand made.
Never had a complaint from the carpet cleaner about dirt or glue.
@Emir K I'm talking about modern synthetic wall to wall carpeting, not a hand woven wool or silk RUG.
Carpeting, and rugs, can last well over a decade or more if cared for properly.
The video is clearly about the effects that dirt and other abrasives can have on the strength and appearance of a rope, and not carpet, but the same principle applies. If left dirty, it will fall apart much faster than if kept clean.
Great to see these practical tests inside the Mammut facility with their actual engineers. The transparency and simple advice for keeping your ropes clean is excellent!
Beal has original detergent for washing ropes harnesses etc, if anyone is thinking of washing their equipment after watching this video, this is probably the safest option.
Why?
@@PapP148 If you use regular detergents with stuff for washing your clothes it could have bleaches and various enzymes that were put in there to dissolve or break down dirt, fats and all things related to humans being dirty. This isn't the same at all for ropes and if for example you were to use bleaching detergent (whitening) on a nylon rope, it could react with the nylon, bleach being an oxidant and nylon being quite oxidazable due to it's chemical structure.
Beals detergent probably accounts for all this and actually is designed to clean stuff out of rope that a rope would be drity with, without compromising the chemical structure of the polymers you rely on not to die.
I was going to say, Sterling also has a rope wash, “wicked good rope wash”
@@PBnJConniseur Well said
Well, just don't use any detergent at all. Let the water do its thing.
Amazing results! I'm a quality control tech at Sterling Rope in the States. Impressive results on the dirty and chalk filled ropes. I have been interested in conducting these tests for some time and I'm glad to see other companies doing the same. Looking forward to seeing the wet rope drop tower test. Great job guys and gals!
Great to hear! Thanks!
I think this is the best channel about climbing equipment and safety in youtube. Why? The videos are about scenarios every climber must have thought, but only few go and dig deeper. Nice job!
not everyone digging deeper is a full time professional youtuber though, everything in that video i told the people for so long time, but without a shiny video and big sponsor offering such machinery , people believe nothing.
@@apeclimbing yea, you need to demonstrate your idea before people believe it. I mean, you wouldn't want people to believe anything anybody says, or anything you say just on your reputation.
But the demonstration doesn't have to be this expensive, you could send it to HOWNOT2 for testing, or develop your own test!
@@apeclimbing Oh! I just got this video from recommendations, I was not specifically looking for this kind of video. Yes it is a different approach when one makes full/partial salary out of youtube. However, I do agree that a lot of great and useful videos don't get the attention they deserve. I would too like to stumble on more random videos here, without google guessing what one might like to see or not.
@@apeclimbing Daten Sammeln ist halt irgendwie aussagekräftiger als "meine persönliche Erfahrung".
@@kilianhzh bro science
The girl engineer's laughter is healing 😂
Or it makes you sick. 😵💫
I don't climb nor do I have plans to any time soon, but you kept me captivated throughout the video. You're a great presenter. It found it to be really interesting and engaging.
I'd love to see the wet ropes that went through the drop tower go through a tension test AND a wear test to see if they break/wear down faster than ropes that never got wet dropped. And ropes that went through a washing cycle with a strong detergent, but that'd start to be a lot of ropes...
Thanks for the video and taking the time to make them !
No need, we already know not to climb on a wet rope.
I second this!
Well it would need a bunch of test cycles but not that much rope, you need only enough rope to span on the machiene, which looks like 4m maximum per sample.
The quality is getting real!
Maybe one day will reach unreal level as well :D
@@HardIsEasy Then you will live in Unity (with all things).
I have never written a coment at any video. But you deserve recognition for your job. Your content is not only entertaining but also helpful, well presented, interesting and highly useful. Thank you!!
🥰 good times at Mammut again
Super nicely done Ben, as always 😊
Aaah always a pleasure to cut your ropes ;)
So much work Ben to make our life safer ! I love this nerdy series :)
Excellent for Mammut to help with this video - an excellent collab and hopefully we'll see more collaborative videos with other manufacturers. One good thought though is that the same side of the rope would probably not rub against the sharp edge as the rope would probably twist a bit as it's moving over the edge.
If you’re in a lab, a dirty rope introduces abrasives into the system; if you’re on a cliff, abrasives are already in the system. A dirty rope could still make that worse, but it would probably be a much smaller change in the real world than in the lab.
The takeaway for me is demonstrating how great the disparity is between lab conditions and real conditions; not so much about how you use the rope, but how big of a grain of salt you take regarding lab testing claims on the ropes you decide to rely on.
@@bradonhoover3002 At the very least, lab testing gives common conditions with which to make comparisons between products. (Assuming you know the testing methodology)
@@myuzu_ I agree. Standardization and isolation of outside factors is important in baseline testing by which to compare a set of products. Testing as it stands is fine for comparing ropes to one another, but the reference point is arbitrary. This video gives a reminder to new climbers who might take lab claims at face value that they should be prepared for the eventuality that their cord might not last as long as it's claimed to, but is still most probably better than another one that was claimed to be worse
What
Excellent point. However in climbing, sandstone, dirty/chossy rock can introduce dirt to the rope, like lowering over a ledge without an alpine/extension. But getting a rope dirty (like flaking on dirt instead of a bag/tarp), and then running it through gear over and over without washing it, is pretty close to these lab conditions.
I’m a college student studying textile engineering and taking a beginner rock climbing class so this video is just perfect!!
Double-drum spinning dryers where you wrap the rope on the inner and close the outer around and just spin it so air is forced centripetally through the rope are the best. Tumble driers apply a great deal of impact (millions tiny little stresses) and almost always have detergent or softener residue in them.
The US Army has an entire manual of rope care as does the Navy.
This explains a lot . I have just come to the conclusion that the same applies to tow rope and snatch straps. The snatch pretty much lives in the dirt and would make a recovery from a deep bog quite dangerous.
It's amazing how research in one subject translates to another.
Interesting confirmation that dirt and grit essentially turn the rope into sandpaper, which means it wears out much faster. It’s cool to see the same effect in a different context! Also fascinating that washing ropes had a difference in how much they frayed, but that washed and unwashed ropes both fail at roughly the same rate. Really cool!
HOLY MACARONI. Loved the video, not nerdy at all. Super informative and I love how videos now are taking the science shows of the 90's and 00's and make availble on RUclips.
Very cool video! As an arborist the stuff you guys trust your life to blows my mind. My climb lines are in the 11-13mm range with minimum strength requirements of 5,400lb, they're made of nylon and/or polyester which don't much care about getting wet. I wash mine often putting oil on it first to get pitch out. According to the manufacturer (Samson) the only common chemical to worry about is bleach so if there's any question of contamination make sure you run a rinse cycle before putting your rope in the machine.
The ropes are definitely very different (despite maybe not appearing so, besides thickness). If I’m not mistaken arborist ropes are generally thicker and static (or semi static?). Climbing ropes are dynamic which is crucial for the application. This greatly reduces the amount of force that gets applied to anchors and the climber when there is a fall. A dynamic rope with a lower breaking strength can hold a fall with less chance of breaking compared to a static rope so it may not be what it appears when comparing the two ropes (the “stronger” rope isn’t always going to be less likely to break, ie if a factor 1 or factor 2 fall happens). Similarly though a dynamic climbing rope isn’t going to preform as well for an arborist. They’re both specialized pieces of gear.
Thank you Ben. I love the nerdy episodes! Especially because you go into details.
Seeing the wear on the wear block would have been interesting as well
Dude... Just wanted to say out of all the channels that Ive clicked on from RUclips Shorts, your channel does a great job of not making it confusing on where the full length video that matches the short is so easy to find lol, thank you great video!
I would be interested to see a test of how the tensile strength is affected by clean/dirty ropes that have gone through the abrasion test
Amazing content Ben. So useful, so practical!
You're truly a gem to the climbing community Ben, thank you for these videos.
Amazing video Ben! Thanks for all the work on putting this together and Mammut for assisting with the testing and info. Great stuff!
Great test !! Thanks a lot to you !!! ...and to Mammut supporting you !!
Always great to see proper tests, none of the old wives tales. Thank you!
I only trust my wife! ❤
Thank you for the great video! As a (relatively) new climber I have been wondering about the proper maintenance of climbing shoes and would really appreciate a similar video to see the effects the washing machine in performance and/or other things or no washing at all. Your experience with climbing shoes would also be valuable as well if you wouldn’t mind sharing that.😅 Thank you again for all your videos!
25 years ago when i first got introduced to climbing gear, we were told to never let the rope get dirty and why...
Great stuff here and very informative! Suggestion for a follow up test: how does a dirty rope compare to a clean one when doing fall testing? Does the dirt also reduce the lifetime when counting falls before it fails? Most of my ropes fail not due to abrasion but from repeated falls (and jugging back up on it after)
what stresses a rope in a fall is the bending radius in knots or squeezing on biners. a kind of friction not to different from this abrasion test, so i am pretty sure that a dirty rope suffers more damage on falling on it too.
the most damage likely will happen on the contact point with the most stress at highest quichdraw or, when contacting rock for sure.
@@apeclimbing I agree that certainly seems likely. Curious if it is a relatively minor effect (compared to abrasion) or very severe. That is, does fall number rating drop by, say, 10% or more like 50% for a dirty rope? That's less clear!
Awesome idea, and really good scientific methodologies there!! Thanks for the knowledge 💪🏻
Moral of the story: don't use rope when climbing.
I don't climb, but this was an interesting question that I NEEDED the answers for. Very well done, Mammut staff was very accommodating! It makes sense that any kind of dirt, or foreign substance increases the abrasion on the rope, causing it to fail more quickly. Great video.
Thank you very much Ben and all the entire Mammut team for your work !
This ruled! Thanks y’all.
Our pleasure!
great video, I learned something new today, thanks! I was hoping you would go into a scientific explanation of how chalk and dirt accelerate the wear on ropes. Like are dirt/chalk particles being dragged along the rope and crushing the plastic polymers, or is there a more complex explanation such as they reduce the ability for the rope strands to slide past one another and causing increased stress etc.
Thanks so much for this series! So much important information!
That's so interesting to watch and super useful! Thanks, Ben!
Surprised they weren't already performing such tests. Also, I only used ropes indoors - lead climbing - and I still got those black streaks, or darkened sections on my rope. The gym isn't exactly clean, but it's not crag dirt either -- so probably a mix of general grime, oils, dust etc is also causing this.
Also the stripes of the lab rope they showed in the video look nothing like the stripes of the "real" rope so I'm not convinced that those stripes really stem from dirt in general. Also the color (silver/gray) seems to point towards aluminium abrasion
Do you have any insight from the Mammut team if washing a Dry rope can actually remove the treatment?
Was wondering about that as well
Same question. My experience suggests that it degrades the coating (side load washer, delicate cycle, warm water, no detergent)
Washing, but particularly using the rope will very probably degrade the treatment. It's more than likely very similar if not the same as hardshell water repellency treatments.
The kind of video I always save for future reminders! Great work!
This is a great video, thank you for doing this! I've always been curious about these exact scenarios.
What about ones with different grain sizes? Are finer chalks less abrasive?
Risky question i would ask mammut to test: of course washing/wearing the rope is removing the fluorine waterproof coating. Would it work re-treating the rope with something like Nixwax? (But sounds hazardous stuff).
And thanks a lot for the TOP LEVEL informative and scientific content :)
I think this coating is already gone when the rope gets dirty to the point you want to wash it.
@@iacamigevaerd376 exactly but then would it be possible to restore it ?
A very well-organized video with clearly defined scientific procedures, hypotheses, and testing. Phenomenal.
Subbed. As you were talking about wanting to test the effects of water on rope, I thought of Ryan's channel. Then you mentioned that y'all are friends. Cool. Can't wait to see the next video!
Very interesting video. I've always used a damp cloth to wipe down the rope after climbing outside. It seems to get most of the dirt without the dry time. Any thoughts on this method?
Good idea I do the same because this fast snd easy method removes most of the dirt and this is pretty enough to reduce the negative abrasion effects on the rope without washing and drying
u should test different temperatures of washed ropes and whether or not u used washing detergent.. i wonder if the chemicals might effect the rope and high temperatures might weaken it? a washing machine can wash 40 c or 60c or 90c etc
I suspect going to high temps won't make it better. Usually it helps for sanitizing or dissolve greasy dirt. For ropes sounds mainly dust..
😂😂 Johnny Depps famous line in pirates of the Caribbean "I've got a jar of dirt" love the play on words with bag of dirt
Thank you! What a really good video, I really enjoy seeing this type of content because it is very valuable to the community
Thanks for the great content! I'm wondering if you talked about whether cleaning a dry-treated rope can affect the dry-treating at all? I'd be interested in knowing if the beneficial effects of removing the dirt/chalk from the rope might "even out" with a negative effect of deteriorating the dry-treatment.
Thanks Ben, good stuff (like always).
I'm surprised - I still have the suspicion that washing made the lifespan of 2 of my ropes much shorter, since washing made them more rugged (less "fluffy") - maybe washed out the dry treatment (yep, used very little light detergent, dried correctly, did tumble on 400rpm). Totally doesn't match your experiment :)
I think you can trust the guys from Mammut on this one..
Never thought that would be an issue. Thanks for sharing!
Useful and interesting information as usual, looking forward to the next one!
I don't think this experiment is accurate, and potentially comes to a wrong conclusion. The blade used here is furnished metal, and microscopically it's very smooth, so the force is spread out in a large area without any local high pressure that forces the microfiber to snap. And dirt creates a high-pressure area since it lays between the blade and the rope unevenly, so dirty ropes snap faster in this case. However, in real life, rocks are not smooth, the uneven pressure is innate, the effect of dirt is unknown and it might add up or counteract the surface profile of a rock. I wish more realistic experiments can be done since the current conclusion might be misleading and premature considering it's vital in saving lives.
I love these videos! Such cool apparatus and interesting questions. I'm never gonna rock climb in my life, but I can't stop watching!
That's super helpful!! Thanks for all the work!
Great to see this! Thank U! And I must say, the Ladies of Mammut!! WOW!!
I’m over here in the United States watching this thinking about how valuable this information is for my kinetic tow ropes and the effects of snow and dirt on the rope life. Very fascinating information to consider. Up to now, the only rule is to never run it over but I think pulling while wet or dirty should now become a consideration.
Thank you for posting this excellent video! I've long been an advocate for washing climbing ropes frequently. I hope this video will encourage more people to do it 🙂
Honestly, thank you for making this. Now I know for when I need it in the future! Dunno when, but I know I will.
1:28 "It's multiple bags of durd!" XD
I'm not even climbing myself, but I love to watch this because it's fun science :D
Your video's are excellent thank you for your contribution to the community!
As a kid I would always help my dad with things in my yard (which is all sand.) He would always tell me to get as little dirt as possible in the ropes because it could mess them up.
Great video this is one of the most interesting science/climbing videos. I’ve seen in quite a bit!
Bro I JUST LOVE your videos, it would really nice to have video talking about classic climbing gear, like friends or other stuff like the petzl´s micro traxion...
Great job.
I have always washed my ropes occasionally, though I might switch my detergent to something designed for washing waterproof jackets.
It also shows the durability, and therefore the value, of dry ropes.
I was not aware that dry ropes were also dirt resistant. Good to know.
4:00. So glad a pause for heat was considered! Thought it would've been something looked over!
Sympathetic and very interesting as usual. Thanks !
Super helpful video! Thanks for sharing this information!
Thank you so much ! I've been looking foe this for years.
Love what you do! Keep it up! Very interesting video.
Thanks for the excellent research . It sounds the same as using snatch straps on 4x4 vehicle recoveries . A wet strap is weaker than a dry one . Also dyneema winch rope strength is negatively affected by dirt , heat and sunlight . There is also another aspect to dirty climbing ropes aside from the negative effects on the rope alone and that is the erosion effects on equipment like figure 8 descender , belaying devices etc. Dirty ropes wear out your gear faster . I was taught to wash climbing and abseiling ropes after use but I did not know exactly why at the time . A dynamic rope would loose a lot of it's stretch when wet so if subjected to a fall the natural arresting stretch is not there as good and gets worse after each consecutive fall . Keeping the length of any potential fall as short as possible by adding extra gear and not climbing too far above any arresting gear without being clipped in is good insurance . Just like a snatch strap will break after 8 to 10 consecutive pulls and needs to be rested after 5 consecutive pulls .
Another aspect I worry about is ropes in storage. What affect could storage in a garage near vehicles and other petrol equipment have on rope life ? I store my ropes in rope bags and inside back packs but they are in my car garage which has always worried me . Not that I climb anymore but I still use my gear for tree and roof work . The most mild detergents are the ones for baby's cloths .
Great stuff folks. Thanks a lot for this job and visualization how dangerous can the dirt be. Best regards from Germany.
Hey Mammut...I'm in the market for some new rope (a 60m for sport climbing and a 30m for ski mountaineering)...and I'm going to buy Marmut rope specifically because of the assistance you have provided to this channel. Thanks!
Great experiment!. Chalk, or the dirt increases friction in contact, so it is normal the rope wears more. If the rope was soaked in oil i suppose it would last much longer, but it would dangerously negatively impact on climbing experience. So it is fair to keep using dirty ones, but just check for damage, and cautiously decide if the rope still is good for the stress you intend to put it on for your next climb.
I'm not even interested in climbing but this was still interesting to watch.
Amazing. Love this stuff!
Thank you for video. Very useful information.
Great video. I hope to see the performance of the static rope in wet conditions in your next video.
Loved the video!!
Thanks for your work dude !
I let out an audible. "YAY!!" When i saw you posted. Love your videos 😊
Makes sense that the rope designed to resist abrasion has a smaller difference between clean and dirty.
Also i forgot to mention: Great video i learnt alot!! you just saved a bunch of lives, something people dont talk about often ! well done.
Also the effects of writing with permanent marker on harnesses, it breaks down the fibers.
Hi! Some factors that can affect this experiment: the tensile strength of where the edge meets the rope does not look like it was taken into account; if one rope was dug in more deeply than another rope, that will affect results, especially since it looks that point was not noticed due to how it was attached to the machine (tied).
Also, these ropes look like polyester. If the ends of the rope was melted prior to testing after being cut, this can affect results due to how the rope was twisted. Since the ends of the rope will hold the rope together, we can see that it did actually have an affect on the experiment in the "unwashed unwaxed rope" test.
Chalk, talc, and dirt all add friction to the rope, and that friction when rubbed against a rope will cause damage amongst the threads.
You’re AMAZINGLY creative! Such a great video. Thanks!
Thank you so much!
That was really interesting 😁 cheers! 👍🏻
Who knew if you add an abrasive to a wiping action you take off more material! Only playing, I never would have considered it and learned a lot, thanks!
very informative! Thanks for this
Thank you for the education!!! Awesome 👌
1:41
Great. New Samples. Once the water content, the grain Size distribution and the glow loss of this sample.
Great video guys thanks