Obviously not clear in the video, the 5 attacks in the damage calculation (using Shadow Blade) are not from Steel Wind Strike. They are from Attack action, Action surge and bonus action attack from GWM. I didn't do any damage calculation for Steel Wind Strike, just thought it was a good spell for this build.
Oh, just got a variant version of this build by switching 12lv sword bard to 8lv sword bard and 4lv divine sorcerer. This variant build have the same multiclass spell slots, and learned shadow blade as sorcerer lvl2 spells (able to cast @7th as well) Since we can use quicken spell on bonus action, so we don't need to GWM feat and replace it with War Caster feat for concentration and opp. atk. The combo now will be action 2 atks, action surge 2 atks, and bonus action quicken spell Dissonant Whispers@lvl1 (3d6) to force enemy movement to trigger opp. atk, then use the reaction to cast booming blade. In this way, we have additional damage dice 3d6 (D.W.@lvl1) and 6d8+4d8 (critical booming blade) in best rolls as 98 more dmg vs the original build. The original build has additional 5th and 6th expertise skills and more high-level spells learned from magic secrets and bard 12lv. However, the build has very intensive use of spell slots for critical smite, so PC is very unlikely to cast many other spells, except for cantrips. But getting 4lvls of divine sorcerer will add 5 more cantrips like guidance, and Metamagic, which will significantly enhance casting synergy with this build.
Yes I think this variant build can work better because it brings a lot flexibilities when ambush fails or an unexpected encounter happens. For example, favored by gods feature, shield and sanctuary spells work best for retreating from a failed ambush. Twinned spells + Greater Invisibility is great combo for the party... etc.
@@TreantmonksTemple I just theorycraft a build that can deal 2700+ max dmg during assassinate surprise turn! Whisper Bard 14: get Steel Wind Strike (SWS) and Swift Quiver @10th, and Simulacrum @14th magic secret. Fighter2/ Rogue 3/ Warlock 1 with any +3 magic longbow, feats: Dex, Elven Accuracy and Sharpshooter. Precasting Swift Quiver, and put Hexblade curse (HC) on the boss while stealth. This should be done relatively easily because we can start ambush from range, unlike other builds to ambush with melee. Ambush combo: 1) bonus action attack the boss twice with Swift Quiver. 2x (1d8+5+10+6+3)=2d8+48 Triggering Sneak atk and Phychic Blade: 2d6+5d6=7d6 2) move close then action on SWS to hit 5 targets, then teleport to a better spot and action surge SWS again. Both SWS hit the boss to get HC bonus as well. 2 x SWS: 2x (5 x 6d10+6)= 60d10+12 Total and double dice for crits: 2x (2d8+7d6+60d10)+48+12=120d10+4d8+14d6+60 Max dmg is 1376! The Simulacrum of the build is just missing 7th spell slot and half HP, so it can copy the same combo and ambush together! The total max dmg is 1376x2=2752!!!
@@matthewvick6935 Replacing 4 gloom stalker instead of sorcerer, then you cannot learn Shadow Blade at all. If you really want SB with more atks, you can use 5 gloom stalker + 3 lvl others to replace 8 sword bard lvls. In this way, we can have 7 melee atks (action+bonus acton+quicken BB), lesser version of shadow blade and spell slots to smith. For example, 5 gloom stalker/ 4 sorcerer/ 3 rogue/ 3 fighter/ 2 paladin/ 3 bard build will have caster lvl of 10. So we can use Shadow Blade@5th and lower lvl spells slot to smith for possible more dmg. But this build requires 13 on Str/Dex/Wis/Cha and only 2 feats.
So I once had a party that was only playing high damage characters who weren't very tanky so what ended up happening was they doubled down on damage and just nuked everything I sent their way because you can't die if everything trying to kill you has been vaporized
Our 3 player party is basically this. It's taken a while but our DM has finally realised that one big boss won't bother us, but give us a swarm of lower CR enemies and we're screwed.
This is one of the best builds I have seen because yeah it has a powerful first massive attack but it also reloads a LOT on short rest and has a ton of skills that If focused can make you even more important in the non combat parts of the campaign.
Just came across this gem of a video. I do not know if anyone has made this point, but if you start with fighter you will gain proficiency in CON saves. That will help mitigate the low CON bonus for concentration checks. You will ultimately net one less skill, but this build has a ton of skills plus Jack of all Trades. I would say the trade-off is worth it.
I would definitely take bard before fighter. The extra spell slots help you with bigger smites and make you a vastly more versatile character. Yeah, action surge and combat maulers are nice but you need the magic more.
That is insane! I liked the little bit of flavor at the beginning also. Would take a little long to get everything up and running but goodness that would be strong once it got started.
I've gone for a different version of this myself in a homebrew. 3 sorc. for shield mirror image and shadowblade, subtle and quickened metamagics. and greenflame blade cantrip. And last but not least, starting sorc. since it also gets me a con-save proficiency. Then the rest I am dumping down to swords-bard for skills, flourishes magical secrets and just so I can be the most stylish tiefling on the block. It does take a bit of time to come online -proper- since I won't get 2 strikes til lvl 9, but with good use of quicken and greenflame blade I still get 2 attacks on a regular basis.. just have to find the time to convert sorcery points every other turn. It's been a blast so far, and the sheer variety of skills and rp that he's suited for has been awesome. Not a 1k burst damager, but a solid AC-tank with shield and (if the dice are on my side) decent flourishes.
Ok I tweeked this build a little, started with Bard first, when you go thief you only get dex and int saves prof, I added Resilient feat and Sharpshooter in place of GWM. I subbed Warlock 3 for the fighter...I got telepathy (great old ones), pact of the chain familiar (continual advantage) and Warlock gave me Shadow Blade spell plus Armor of Agathys for 30 extra hit points, plus a couple extra spell slots. I also got Devil's Sight and Mask of Many Faces, great for RP and thematic for an assassin. I went with Steel Wind Strike and Swift Quiver for long range assassinations, four attacks with crits and +14+ dmg per arrow with advantage. You could also go with Haste instead. I'm prof with dex, con, and Ch saves....
A super important note about Wrathful smite. While the initial chance to resist the spell is a wisdom SAVE, on subsequent turns they can use their action to make a wisdom ABILITY CHECK against the spell save DC. This is massively important because many creatures rely on massive saving throw bonuses to resist your spells, since they often lack either the physical or mental stats to do so otherwise. So any spell would love to force checks instead of saves. Additionally with this spell in particular it’s even better because the target is already frightened when they make thick check and the frightened condition imposed disadvantage on ability checks. So effectively they’re making a save with disadvantage and without any bonuses beyond their wisdom modifier.
You spend every single resource you have to kill an enemy in a single hit. That enemy? It's the one the DM knew you'd kill in a single hit. Imagine this: design a balanced encounter for the party, and then add a strong enemy you know will instantly die. Nova builds are extremely easy to design around.
Interesting. I am currently building up a different approach in my group, which is heavily built towards mobility and avoid being seen. A good deal less damage than this, but most likely more durable. Rogue(Assassin) 5 (for Uncanny Dodge in case it DOES get hit) Ranger (Deep Stalker) 4 Monk (Shadow) 8 Fighter (Battlemaster) 3 with the Skulker feat being the only really important feat and sharpshooter being optional. Fighting styles: Dueling and Archery The idea being that the character remains hidden most of the time and the enemy gets hit by darts flying from one shadow and then another - before getting pounced by an angry feline that can dart in and out of combat due to Cunning Action before then vanishing in one shadow and pouncing from another. Now who is afraid of the dark..?
Anything your players do in the game you can do as well as the DM you should never ever be afraid of having strong player characters at your table. It just means you can take the gloves off and really throw some epic encounters at them.
I like optimization but I don't like munchkinry. This stretches far beyond the reasonable expectations of most tables and its kind of feels bad to blow your load in only one turn and see your effectiveness plummet. I like the funny story used to justify the build. Besides that I also appreciate it in the sense of a "what if" numbers game similar to how we like to calculated the maximum jump lengths achievable.
As a note, when under the effects of Wrathful Smite the subject can take an action to try to break out but it's NOT a saving throw, it's an ability check. Therefore it's more difficult to pass as they don't get to add proficiency - this is why Wrathful Smite is probably the most effective Smite spell.
Consider the possibility of a 3 level dip into Hexblade for pact of the blade and improved pact weapon. You can get a +1 magical greatsword that strikes with Charisma, which allows you to team up Elven Accuracy and Great Weapon Master.
The only things that feel off with this character are the progression (which is fixable) and the fact that despite being a character that is built around Shadow Blade, you aren't picking it up until at least level 10. Did a similar character myself that got played up til level 12. Was a Swashbuckler/Shadow Sorcerer. Final split is 11 rogue, 9 sorc. Lets you cap both dex and charisma, along with picking up elven Accuracy. You deal damage with a combination of shadow blade and booming blade, along with quickened spell and the innate disengage that Swashbuckler gets (which lets you stick the secondary booming blade damage more often than not) You also end up with a bit more overall utility, since the combination of expertise in persuasion and the 9th level Swashbuckler feature, along with access to Darkness, Invisibility and Dimension door lets you really neuter an enemies offense. Shadow Hound plus Hold Monster is also still a particularly potent combo, even without the Shadow Blade damage. Plus you are picking up Shadow Blade at level 4, so you are playing a sneaky shadow blader as soon as possible.
If you want shadow blade early, I suggest using bladesinger wizard instead of college of swords bard. You still get your extra attack feature as a bladesinger, but you get shadow blade as a level 3 bladesinger, instead of level 10 bard. I also made a post about how the gloomstalker ranger is a great option to splash into (3 levels)
Massive Drizzt fan here. Indeed when i started this D&D journey from a Novel reader I was first a Drizzt Fan. Now there are two nostalgic builds i want to play. Classic 80's Ninja and now this build. Good job!
This runs into issues with shadowbaldes verbal components. Half-orc would make more sense for the extra damage on each crit as well. With the new material thats been added you would have much more nova potential with this build. Assassin 3/Shadow Sorcerer 3/College of Swords 6/Echo Knight 3/Gloom Stalker 3/Paladin 2. I run this build with the bounty hunter background. The half-orc already mildly shunned by society works as a bounty hunter and an executioner lowering his caste even further. He was forced into the job by the tyrant lord of his home, who made him execute his twin brother(I reflavor the echo as the brother). The build fits very well with this concept considering executioners were generally also healers, Floggers, Knackers, Marriage officiants, Interrogators. They also collected taxes from lepers, brothels and gaming houses. Anyway would love to see you do an updated version of this it was definitely an inspiration for the half-orc executioner.
Wrathful smite is even better than discussed - it is a wisdom check against your spell save DC, not a saving throw. Since the creature is frightened they make the ability check with disadvantage, and they do NOT get to add their saving throw proficiency to the check.
Yeah, it's brilliant to use with booming blade. Also, it's only a wisdom check to break free of the fear, it's a saving throw to prevent it happening from the start. Which you can keep it up for longer if you or a party member has...I think Bestow Curse. Disadvantage on an ability check of the casters choice.
Hey Treantmonk, nice first-round-build ;) The Problem i see with such a Build is not only the 2nd round of Combat, but also the 2nd fight in an adverturing day, since such a character burns like napalm through it's spell slots ^^' Recently i thought of a similar build but without Divine Strike and nearly without Spellslots. Combining the Assassin with the Battle Master an the Gloomstalker Ranger. This one won't deal up to 1.000 damage in the first round of combat - but he's still capable of killing Dragons before they even get a chance to act. And he get's nearly everything back on a short rest - and from 2nd round in combat on, he is still a good archer. If you're interestet: just mail me and i'll send you my Ranged Assassin Warrior :)
DieinnereStimme is it though? Battlemaster and Bard are short rest classes, and he still has extra attack. That’s still 2*(1d8+7)+2d6 a round, more if using Shadow Blade. A short rest and he can add a d8 or d10 to that attack.
@@AdeptPaladin yes, of course this character isn't as useless in a fight without any Spellslots as a full Sorcerer would be. But at 20th Level The Shadow Blade Assassin without spell slots seems like as powerfull as a 10th Level martial Character. And he can burn all of his Spellslots in about 2 fights (which a sorcerer doesn't). And yes, afer a short rest, he get's Action Surge + Superiority Dice + Inspirations back. But a 11th Level Fighter gets Action Surge + even more Superiority Dice which are d10s back and does 3 Attacks a round. So after the first 1-2 fights, the 11th Level Battle Master seems to be better than this Character on Level 20. That's the reason, my "first-round-build" does have 11 Levels of Battle Master ;) This fire burns brighter of course - but the brightest fires burn out the fastest.
I was thinking of making ranged one shot - one kill style character: Bugbear Assassin 17/Gloom Stalker 3, but I wondered about adding fighter in there.
@@DarthRamzes Fighter 11, Gloom Stalker 3 does 8 Attacks in round 1, adding 2 free d8s. Btw: Assassin isn't in the mix for the auto-crits if you surprise an enemy - because either you go alone an stealthy (and bore your group to death) or you go as a group and surely someone fails his Stealth Check... So Assassin is in there for auto-advantage in turn 1, mixed with elven accuracy (+alert) and 8 attacks, this is one quasi-guaranteed crit, which is enough to double those Sneak-Attack Dice :)
@@DieinnereStimme Sure, you're right about them running out of resources quickly. You might also consider, however, that the sorcerer may be hindered by his lack of ability to burn so brightly when, say, he's fighting the big bad, as he is likely to be doing at level 20. Full casters gain staying power by having lots of slots, but they're held back by being unable to use more than one (or maybe two) per round.
I wonder if using echo knight would be better for this build now that it's out. You can use the extra attack from the echo instead of counting on great weapon master, freeing up the ASI. The extra movement would be a good addition too.
You said with wrathful smite ,anytime over the next minute you hit with a melee weapon you get 1d6 extra damage, but I believe that damage only happens one time on the next hit, the frightened effect can last up to one minute.
I had built a Shadow Sorcerer / Paladin that was along similar lines - and had been working on refining it after i dropped my first 100+ damage single shot on a crit - lots to think about here - salutations to you and the player that submitted the build - The community of Optimancers you’ve been building seem to be a very creative bunch!
If I was to do my own take on the build I'd build them as such Gloomstalker Ranger 3/Fighter 2/Conquest Paladin 3/Whisper Bard 12. Changing Sword to Whisper gives you a secondary "smite" option, which is also psychic damage. Changing Assassin to Gloomstalker removes your auto crit and advantage on those who haven't gone yet (unless using revised ranger) but it gives you the missing "extra attack" (at least for the first round). The biggest reason though I suggest this is because of Umbral Sight. If you are fighting in areas where someone needs Darkvision, which as a Drow, you should be, you are invisible to them unless they light up the room, giving you a very constant source of using that Elven Accuracy feat, without needing to be using your Shadow Blade (you'd still be using it, but still) or needing to worry about Greater Invisibility. Swapping Fighter and Paladin loses you the Superiority dice, but gives you a clutch +10 to a roll once per short rest, and gives you access to Armor of Agathys, shoring up that low HP you said the build was hurting for.
@@Adurnis As TM uploads the video, you instantly click on it. Your fingertips fly over your keyboard as your mind constructs the perfect first comment. TM gets a notification on his phone, which causes the vibration of said phone to tip off his cup of coffee or tea - you cannot tell from this distance - of the table on to his right foot. Screaming from the shock of heat and impact, TM stands up from his chair, giving in to the basic instinct of fight or flee... ...which he starts to regret, as he feels a legostone drilling into the sole of his left foot. The combined damage causes him to fall. Yor target is now prone and stunned. What do you do?
I think it is slightly more damage if you take 5 gloom stalker, 3 assasin, 3 battlemaster, 1 warlock, 6 sorcerer, and 2 paladin(but your charisma or dex will have to be bad) EDIT: you would have to have a 13 cha or 16 if you dumped your con to 8, need dex because you can’t make shadow blade your hex weapon EDIT 2: with the new echo knight the unleash incarnation makes it better than battle master , because you can have a 12 con for 1 extra attack
now make it with the new bugbear +20d6 XD maybe instead of battlemaster go echo knight lose charisma and get more con for +2 attack (assuming you already have your echo up) and bye bye
Shadow Blade, Bless, Wrathful Smite and a few others are all Concentration. What combo would you use to get passed that? Ultimately, would you just go Shadow Blade with all the other Advantages and Crits?
Eternal DM, I'm excited about trying something similar to this build at 4 lvls Assassin 4 lvls Battle master, 12 lvls Bard of Swords, in that order. Elven Accuracy, Alert, Great Weapon Fighting. I'll play it from lvl 13. I'll think about it, I gotta play a pure diviner first for the bucket list believe it or not.
Typing it out because it took me a minute to understand: From surprise, you precast Shadow Blade and maybe Hide action, then wait a round. Cast SWS, netting criticals to 5 targets for 60d10 force damage. You could action surge to do this twice, for 120d10 force damage. End 5 feet from anything still standing. GWM bonus action to weapon attack, getting Sneak, can smite as well. Or: From surprise, you precast Shadow Blade and maybe Hide action, then wait a round. Attack with Sneak, Maneuver, flourish, smite, Extra attack with maneuver and smite. Action Surge Attack with maneuver, smite, Extra attack with maneuver and smite. GWM Bonus action attack with smite That's five attacks with shadow blade, five smites, four maneuvers, 1 flourish, all with Dueling +2's
Only one correction: Your first instance would not activate GWM as GWM requires a melee weapon hit, and SWS is not that, so there would be no weapon attack or opportunity for smite.
I'm not convinced you can do two SWS in one round even with action surge. The RaW doesn't say it is forbidden but it seems to me that there is some constraint applied to avoid casting two spells in one round.
@@DavidJeames There's nothing preventing two leveled spells being cast on the same turn if neither of them are a bonus action. Sage advice: www.sageadvice.eu/2014/09/23/action-surge-spell-2/
So Steel Wind Strike triggers the GWM bonus action attack? I was under the impression that just because you use the weapon in casting the spell, it didn't necessarily count as "with a weapon" for GWM purposes.
I have a character I am currently using in Adventure's League that is basically a more consistent NOVA burst dealing damage. She's a fallen aasimar currently with the following build: Paladin 2/Hexblade 5/Whispers Bard 8 with Polearm Master that uses a glaive. Hex Warrior lets me use my +6 Charisma(I have a tome) for my attack & damage rolls, Hexblade's Curse raises my Critical to 19 and adds my proficiency(+5) to damage. Eldritch Smite Invocation gives me extra 428 force damage from expending a Warlock spell slot (3rd level) and Whispers Bard's Psychic Blades lets me use a bardic dice to add 3d6 psychic damage. Add Great Weapon Fighting Style to let me reroll a 1 or 2 on my weapon damage and I can potentially deal(on a crit with max damage) 214 damage on the first attack, 114 on the 2nd attack, and 102 on my third attack (from Polearm Master) for a total of 438.
Just out of curiosity, how would the damage output look if this build went college of whispers for the psychic blades attack, and just took 2 more levels in fighter or 3 more levels in paladin for extra attack? I know we're building for Shadow Blade damage, but I'm curious.
Well the 5 attacks in the final math are dependent on the extra bonus action attack from GWM (attack, extra attack, action surge attack, action surge extra attack, GWM bonus action attack). So GWM is required for maximum potential, but Alert would be more reliable. Depending on how your GM runs combat though, if you're going in stealthy as an assassin, your attack may be what starts initiative, in which case Alert isn't as useful.
@@TreantmonksTemple If they roll initiative higher than you, then they are not surprised anymore, even if you surprise them. You will still act before them (because they can't act) and have advantage, but you aren't guaranteed the crits if they beat you on init. I guess it depends if your DM is saying there is a "surprise round", which, I believe, is not the way it's written. You should definitely check with the DM in terms of how he's ruling assassinate before you invest in something as ridiculous as this.
I think it's very interesting to see how powerful multi classing can be, but i don't know if it would be fun to play this if your campaign started at lv 1
@@becomeanastronaut6232 yes, rogue is fun, but if your goal is to do this Nova damage, you will get some of it at lv 5, and the rest won't really kick in until high levels. Fun is subjective, but it feels to me like the point of this build is to get those massive high numbers, which won't happen until high levels, then you'd spend most of your low levels excited about the potential but not focused on the now. Plus, if your PC dies, then that might be jarring as you had been so looking forward to tier 3+ that you hadn't considered low tier death. If you can have fun playing this character knowing you have to start at lv 1, go for it. I'm not stopping you. I personally think this would be more fun as a high tier 1 shot character where you play all night right at lv 10 or higher than a "campaign from lv 1" character
you can not use sneak attack 2 times in a turn, so if you use sneak attack on your reaction you can not use it on your action (attack) and vice versa. And please if someone can answer me how you do 5 attack in one turn without haste spell cause i still dont get it...
once per turn you can use sneak attack, not on your turn when you end your turn, sneak attack comes back online, you just need to attack with your reaction (opportunity attack, riposte, brace)
I realize there's no space in this build to get extra attack from a different source without giving up 6th level slots, but it's a shame that you can't mix in College of Whispers Bard for the 5d6 from bardic inspiration dice. Also a shame that Gloomstalker needs 13 WIS, cause that's potentially two more attacks if the stats could be made to work.
I thought I'd add something on the RP part of playing this multiclass. I've just started playing this and I'm current Rogue/Assassin 3 and Paladin 1. Rather than playing it as being an assassin who fell into fanaticism and then clawed out, my idea is that it's a drow assassin who met and fell in love with the priestess of a secret Elistraee sect in the underdark. With her help he's made his way to the surface. The paladin pick is a paladin of Elistraee but she is also a goddess of dance, music and swordplay so the bard and fighter picks are really in theme as well.
I’ve been looking for ways to effectively use shadow blade ever since I realized pact of the blade warlocks cannot use the spell with their invocations... Kind of a bummer since that spell seems like it would be perfect thematically for a warlock. One idea I had for shadow blade was paladin 6 / sorcerer 14, since you could get two attacks and then quicken booming blade for a third attack, smiting on all 3. Seems like it would be a more well rounded character at least. Also every time I try to play around with the shadow blade idea, I always end up realizing that spirit guardians is better in almost every scenario haha. This might be the first build where that’s not the case.
@@noncanalepricnipale Technically they can use the spell, but not as effectively as you would think. The warlock Eldritch Invocations Thirsting Blade and Lifedrinker only apply to your pact weapon, and since there is no way within the rules to turn Shadow Blade into your pact weapon, you will be stuck making one attack per round with it.
@@noncanalepricnipale also hexblades use charisma to attack with their hex weapon and shadowblades hit is either dex or str depending on which is higher
The problem with this character build is level progression not the combat round viability. It just needs one bad Initiative roll during the crappy stages. Adventure League has some ambush scenarios as well. So, assuming you are playing this in Adventure League, one bad round of combat and either you are starting a new character from scratch or wasting resources to ressurect this one with the hopes that it does not happen again. And even in high or max level, one crappy initiative roll or an ambush can mean trying to stay alive as opposed to dealing damage. The character has some front loading to do. Still, impressive damage.
holy crap the only negative on this character is in wisdom saving throws and it can do so much damage also if your playing with optional critical hit rules the extra dice from critical hits are doubled
To my understanding Steel Wind strike requires a weapon worth atleast 1sp which shadow blade does not qualify for. Also the whole melee spell attack vs melee weapon attack others have mentioned
@@TreantmonksTemple okay then ^^ but i would till say that steel wind stike only deals the 6d10 and not any more, look at eldritch blast doing 1d10 and then having to get a feature to add the modifier. also booming blade specificly says "On a hit, the target suffers the attack's normal effects," while steel wind strike does not have this clause.
Ready to make this build even more disgusting now? Switch the fighter to an Echo Knight for two additional hits turn one and double your amount of targets for your Steel Wind Strike. You can also have additional protection just from literally doing all of your melee attacks from the back line. It's insane.
Had a similar idea but I doubled down on Charisma and instead of sorc, I used hexblade to get me shadow blade, had an oath paladin (conquest I think). So after the first round you're still a paladin lock able to short rest and still burn up smites. I also think my max damage tapered off at like 600, happy to share if interested.
Divine smite should be 25d8 for 5 attacks since it caps at 5d8, unless this is assuming an undead or fiend. So minimum would be 149 and max would be 943. I know you presented the build as presented to you, Echo Knight fighter would provide higher damage numbers though, with an average damage of 695: seven attacks instead of 5: 2 from extra attack, 1 attack from echo, action surge: 2 from extra attack, 1 from echo, 1 bonus action from GWM. Now you'd run out of 5d8 smites but the damage calc would look like this: 35 (dex mod) + 14 (dueling fighting style) + 4d6 (sneak attack) + 2d10 (Flourish) + 70d8 (Shadow blade) + 68d8 (smites) for the average listed above. Also a minimum damage of 193 and a maximum damage of 1,197. Though this isn't adventure league legal because it uses EGtW.
I feel like gloomstalker is worth taking here. If we take away 1 level of fighter and 2 levels of bard we can fit it in. This means our shadow blade does 1d8 less damage per attack, so overall 10d8 damage lost there, and we lose the 8d8 from battlemaster. However, we gain 2 full attacks from dread ambush and action surge. We get 2 attacks that deal 4d8+7, and 2 smites, which are both 5d8 (since they’re 3rd level slots). Double that damage for crits and we gain 16d8+14 from the attacks, and 20d8 from the smites. At the cost of 18d8
@@TreantmonksTemple i hope you're inspired to make a swarm summoner. Where is that niche in 5e? nowhere? I was always inspired by a villain in the anime movie "Ninja Scroll". I think you could do a better job than i could.
Still trying to figure out how to start as a rogue, multiclass into a fighter for two levels, and then tripleclass into wizard without becoming completely useless.
I know that using your own variant rules for builds would make the videos niche content and might not get as many views, but will you be releasing any Treantmonk variant build guides once you've finished the spell list?
@@sharkforce8147 Paladin yes, sneak attack is going to be less reliable on a lance charge - if opponent is medium yes, but larger opponents, might require a bit of tactics and a couple rounds set up.
I Decided to make a build that would do as much damage as it could in a single round. Have yet to watch this video so there might be some simularitries but i got it up to 1003 damage before feats, before magic effects, and before any buffs. Now i wanna see how much i can do with all of that
Drow Criminal; 13-15-12-8-8-15(point buy) / 14-15-12-8-10-13(standard array); Any gaming set, any tool; Rogue 3 - Assassin; Acrobatics, Athletics, Intimidation, Sleight of Hand; Expertise in Stealth and Perception; Rapier, shortbow&arrows, burglars pack, Paladin 2; Dueling; Bless, Wrathful Smite, 2x any; Fighter 3 - Battlemaster; Defensou know how to strike subtly and exploit a foe's distraction. Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack if you have advantage on the attack roll. The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon. You don't need advantage on the attack roll if another enemy of the target is within 5 feet of it, that enemy isn't incapacitated, and you don't have disadvantage on the attack roll.e; Any tool; Riposte, Precision Attack, Menacing Attack; Bard 12 - Swords; Any instrument, Persuasion; Two-weapon fighting; Expertise in Acrobatics, Athletics, Persuasion, Deception; Elven Accuracy(Dex), Dex+2, GWM; Shadow Blade, Steel Wind Strike. Prestidigitation, Minor Illusion, Mage Hand, Friends; Healing Word, Comprehend Languages; Blindness/Deafness, Silence; Dispell Magic, Tiny Hut; Dimension Door, Greater Invisibility, Locate Creature; Greater Restoration, Animate Objects; Mass Suggestion, True Seeing.
Only about half way through so it might be answered later, but would it not be better to take Defense fighting style with Paladin and the TWF style with fighter so you could keep using the short swords? ***Never mind, I can see what will happen with Bard. Still, could take Archery with Fighter and just pick one melee style to go with for Bard for more versatility.
Made a similar build aiming for sustained damage instead of nova damage. Full build comes online at level 13 (ugh ikr), Fighter 1/Bard 10 (Swords)/Cleric 2 (Twilight). Basically it's a way to get advantage for shadow blade via twilight sanctuary. Take Fighter (Battlemaster) 3-4 at later levels for more opportunities to make attacks out of turn or more attacks in general (riposte, brace, quick toss). Alternatively go Champion for crit fishing (19% chance to crit or 27.1% if you can fit Elven Accuracy). The rest is up to you to take Bard or Cleric levels for added spells and versatility.
I wonder what you might change on this is 2022, especially in light of the changes to spells like Steel Wind Strike that now make it require an actual weapon instead of shadowblade (boo!) Would you swap BM for Gloomstalker perhaps? maybe that action surge is just too valueable.
I don't know if you'll ever read this since the video is so old but you guys got the spell Steel Wind Strike's effect wrong. It doesn't do 5 weapon attacks for the weapon's damage. You flourish the weapon used and make a melee spell attack against up to 5 creatures you can see within range. On a hit a target takes 6d10 force damage. There is absolutely no point in upcasting shadow blade. Ever.
So, first off, fucking hell the number of dice to roll. Second, I do have a question or two concerning this build. I'm new to D&D so correct me if I'm wrong, but is it even possible to mix and match the battle maneuvers through attacks? Along with casting "Smite" each time? Or was it a "one and done" kind of thing that covered all the attacks.
Too bad you can't fit 2 levels of Grave Cleric for Path to the Grave. Only affects 1 target, but, that target takes double damage. Kill the minions AND the bbeg. Just sayin'.
i mean the if's add up alot for the final dmg calculation. - 5 attacks mean you attack with bonus action. so shadow blade has to be cast beforehand ( Verbal components ) so if you have a strict dm, hiding these could become difficult. - or you need the great weapon master feat. so you have to kill a someone to attack again, which means you need two enemies. to sneak onto. - you need to sneak into mele, with shadow blade taking your concentration. - its a drow. so this isnt possible in sunlight.
I mean this would only be a critical if the opponent is surpised. As an assassin if you played solo? Of course, great. But dnd is played in a group, you're not going to get surpise as much as you like. This is a gimmick character.
SharkForce Well not, the 12D6 from the Wyvern Poison. But there are poisons that don’t require saving throws that would work. Flying Snake Poison for example.
what even is the combat rotation for this character lol. Like what is the turn sequence and what skills/spells do you use in what order lmao. it hurts my head
this character is nutz but i still like the shadowbane smiter a little more, if i ever get to play a level 20 game i will use this guy and watch my gms face lol.
So one thing I tend to let my characters do is buy various items for certain purposes like buying face masks to help deal with poison gases for in the case of drow goggles for dealing with harsh light, and protecting their eyes
I also let them buy things to store specific items like a belt to store healing potions so they can use healing potions as a bonus action, or a pouch to store items that are needed on hand you get the picture I let them buy gear that can help improve their quality of life but are distinctly not magical
I thought we were killing a single target as described at the start of the video?? How are you using a Great Weapon Master bonus action to attack the boss if you haven't killed any other enemies?
I don't think this build would work at all: Steel Wind Strike is considered as a melee spell attack, not a weapon attack. Therefore, a melee spell attack cannot trigger features like Dex bonus dmg modifier, sneak attacks, and divine smith, which all require weapon attack. It's already confirmed by sage advice: www.sageadvice.eu/2018/02/26/does-the-melee-spell-attack-from-steel-wind-strike-count-as-a-weapon-attack/
the bard flourish does indeed require you to "take the attack action" meaning it wont work with stelwind strike, but the battlemaster maneuver and paladin smite only require you to "make a weapon attack roll" which is also what is stated in the steelwind strike spell, so those should be fine by RAW.
@@Zynovus yes, the blade flourish states the following: "Whenever you take the Attack action on your turn, your walking speed increases by 10 feet until the end of the turn, and if a weapon attack that you make as part of this action hits a creature, you can use one of the following Blade Flourish options of your choice."
![BabyChiefDoit - Too Slow (feat. STAR BANDZ) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zayaxws7RPg/mqdefault.jpg)
Obviously not clear in the video, the 5 attacks in the damage calculation (using Shadow Blade) are not from Steel Wind Strike. They are from Attack action, Action surge and bonus action attack from GWM. I didn't do any damage calculation for Steel Wind Strike, just thought it was a good spell for this build.
Oh, just got a variant version of this build by switching 12lv sword bard to 8lv sword bard and 4lv divine sorcerer.
This variant build have the same multiclass spell slots, and learned shadow blade as sorcerer lvl2 spells (able to cast @7th as well)
Since we can use quicken spell on bonus action, so we don't need to GWM feat and replace it with War Caster feat for concentration and opp. atk.
The combo now will be action 2 atks, action surge 2 atks, and bonus action quicken spell Dissonant Whispers@lvl1 (3d6) to force enemy movement to trigger opp. atk, then use the reaction to cast booming blade.
In this way, we have additional damage dice 3d6 (D.W.@lvl1) and 6d8+4d8 (critical booming blade) in best rolls as 98 more dmg vs the original build.
The original build has additional 5th and 6th expertise skills and more high-level spells learned from magic secrets and bard 12lv. However, the build has very intensive use of spell slots for critical smite, so PC is very unlikely to cast many other spells, except for cantrips. But getting 4lvls of divine sorcerer will add 5 more cantrips like guidance, and Metamagic, which will significantly enhance casting synergy with this build.
@@Zynovus Niiiiiice!
Yes I think this variant build can work better because it brings a lot flexibilities when ambush fails or an unexpected encounter happens. For example, favored by gods feature, shield and sanctuary spells work best for retreating from a failed ambush. Twinned spells + Greater Invisibility is great combo for the party... etc.
@@TreantmonksTemple
I just theorycraft a build that can deal 2700+ max dmg during assassinate surprise turn!
Whisper Bard 14: get Steel Wind Strike (SWS) and Swift Quiver @10th, and Simulacrum @14th magic secret.
Fighter2/ Rogue 3/ Warlock 1 with any +3 magic longbow, feats: Dex, Elven Accuracy and Sharpshooter.
Precasting Swift Quiver, and put Hexblade curse (HC) on the boss while stealth. This should be done relatively easily because we can start ambush from range, unlike other builds to ambush with melee.
Ambush combo:
1) bonus action attack the boss twice with Swift Quiver.
2x (1d8+5+10+6+3)=2d8+48
Triggering Sneak atk and Phychic Blade: 2d6+5d6=7d6
2) move close then action on SWS to hit 5 targets, then teleport to a better spot and action surge SWS again.
Both SWS hit the boss to get HC bonus as well.
2 x SWS: 2x (5 x 6d10+6)= 60d10+12
Total and double dice for crits: 2x (2d8+7d6+60d10)+48+12=120d10+4d8+14d6+60
Max dmg is 1376!
The Simulacrum of the build is just missing 7th spell slot and half HP, so it can copy the same combo and ambush together!
The total max dmg is 1376x2=2752!!!
@@matthewvick6935 Replacing 4 gloom stalker instead of sorcerer, then you cannot learn Shadow Blade at all. If you really want SB with more atks, you can use 5 gloom stalker + 3 lvl others to replace 8 sword bard lvls. In this way, we can have 7 melee atks (action+bonus acton+quicken BB), lesser version of shadow blade and spell slots to smith. For example, 5 gloom stalker/ 4 sorcerer/ 3 rogue/ 3 fighter/ 2 paladin/ 3 bard build will have caster lvl of 10. So we can use Shadow Blade@5th and lower lvl spells slot to smith for possible more dmg. But this build requires 13 on Str/Dex/Wis/Cha and only 2 feats.
This character has the power of god ánd anime on their side
The amount of classes it takes to achieve this is such a DnD thing I love it.
Imagine explaining your character story and progression to your DM.
@@markovucilovski9876 ikr
So I once had a party that was only playing high damage characters who weren't very tanky so what ended up happening was they doubled down on damage and just nuked everything I sent their way because you can't die if everything trying to kill you has been vaporized
Our 3 player party is basically this. It's taken a while but our DM has finally realised that one big boss won't bother us, but give us a swarm of lower CR enemies and we're screwed.
Swarm them with a bunch of kobolds, the kobolds die easy but they'll all have advantage to attack and traps can be a bitch.
This is one of the best builds I have seen because yeah it has a powerful first massive attack but it also reloads a LOT on short rest and has a ton of skills that If focused can make you even more important in the non combat parts of the campaign.
That's crazy. Love your videos Treantmonk.
Interesting, I would probably never make a 4 clases multiclass but I like the assassinate + steel wind strike combo, good idea and flavourful.
I really like that little introduction to the character 10/10
Just came across this gem of a video. I do not know if anyone has made this point, but if you start with fighter you will gain proficiency in CON saves. That will help mitigate the low CON bonus for concentration checks. You will ultimately net one less skill, but this build has a ton of skills plus Jack of all Trades. I would say the trade-off is worth it.
I would definitely take bard before fighter. The extra spell slots help you with bigger smites and make you a vastly more versatile character. Yeah, action surge and combat maulers are nice but you need the magic more.
That is insane! I liked the little bit of flavor at the beginning also. Would take a little long to get everything up and running but goodness that would be strong once it got started.
I've gone for a different version of this myself in a homebrew. 3 sorc. for shield mirror image and shadowblade, subtle and quickened metamagics. and greenflame blade cantrip. And last but not least, starting sorc. since it also gets me a con-save proficiency.
Then the rest I am dumping down to swords-bard for skills, flourishes magical secrets and just so I can be the most stylish tiefling on the block. It does take a bit of time to come online -proper- since I won't get 2 strikes til lvl 9, but with good use of quicken and greenflame blade I still get 2 attacks on a regular basis.. just have to find the time to convert sorcery points every other turn.
It's been a blast so far, and the sheer variety of skills and rp that he's suited for has been awesome. Not a 1k burst damager, but a solid AC-tank with shield and (if the dice are on my side) decent flourishes.
Ok I tweeked this build a little, started with Bard first, when you go thief you only get dex and int saves prof, I added Resilient feat and Sharpshooter in place of GWM. I subbed Warlock 3 for the fighter...I got telepathy (great old ones), pact of the chain familiar (continual advantage) and Warlock gave me Shadow Blade spell plus Armor of Agathys for 30 extra hit points, plus a couple extra spell slots. I also got Devil's Sight and Mask of Many Faces, great for RP and thematic for an assassin. I went with Steel Wind Strike and Swift Quiver for long range assassinations, four attacks with crits and +14+ dmg per arrow with advantage. You could also go with Haste instead. I'm prof with dex, con, and Ch saves....
WOW! Makes sense. May try this with an Eladrin . Keep up the great work!
A super important note about Wrathful smite. While the initial chance to resist the spell is a wisdom SAVE, on subsequent turns they can use their action to make a wisdom ABILITY CHECK against the spell save DC.
This is massively important because many creatures rely on massive saving throw bonuses to resist your spells, since they often lack either the physical or mental stats to do so otherwise. So any spell would love to force checks instead of saves.
Additionally with this spell in particular it’s even better because the target is already frightened when they make thick check and the frightened condition imposed disadvantage on ability checks.
So effectively they’re making a save with disadvantage and without any bonuses beyond their wisdom modifier.
unless they're a bard!
"This is a reasonable build"
"I kill everything in a single hit"
What game are you playing again?
Level 20 characters are inherently unreasonable compared to even 15th level characters.
@@danielbeshers1689 Incidentally, level 20 is where the game ends!
Correction, "i kill the first thing in an encounter in 1 round of attacks"
You spend every single resource you have to kill an enemy in a single hit. That enemy? It's the one the DM knew you'd kill in a single hit. Imagine this: design a balanced encounter for the party, and then add a strong enemy you know will instantly die. Nova builds are extremely easy to design around.
@@louie8649 hes using extra attack AND action surge. How is that one hit?
Interesting. I am currently building up a different approach in my group, which is heavily built towards mobility and avoid being seen. A good deal less damage than this, but most likely more durable.
Rogue(Assassin) 5 (for Uncanny Dodge in case it DOES get hit)
Ranger (Deep Stalker) 4
Monk (Shadow) 8
Fighter (Battlemaster) 3
with the Skulker feat being the only really important feat and sharpshooter being optional. Fighting styles: Dueling and Archery
The idea being that the character remains hidden most of the time and the enemy gets hit by darts flying from one shadow and then another - before getting pounced by an angry feline that can dart in and out of combat due to Cunning Action before then vanishing in one shadow and pouncing from another. Now who is afraid of the dark..?
This is definitely scares me as a DM, though I hope that my players do and don't find this video at the same time...
Anything your players do in the game you can do as well as the DM you should never ever be afraid of having strong player characters at your table. It just means you can take the gloves off and really throw some epic encounters at them.
You can't maintain Shadow Blade and Wrathful Smite at once.
That is correct. Both require concentration.
I like optimization but I don't like munchkinry. This stretches far beyond the reasonable expectations of most tables and its kind of feels bad to blow your load in only one turn and see your effectiveness plummet. I like the funny story used to justify the build. Besides that I also appreciate it in the sense of a "what if" numbers game similar to how we like to calculated the maximum jump lengths achievable.
As a note, when under the effects of Wrathful Smite the subject can take an action to try to break out but it's NOT a saving throw, it's an ability check. Therefore it's more difficult to pass as they don't get to add proficiency - this is why Wrathful Smite is probably the most effective Smite spell.
It's not so much about the proficiency. The check is made at disadvantage because of the frightened condition.
Consider the possibility of a 3 level dip into Hexblade for pact of the blade and improved pact weapon. You can get a +1 magical greatsword that strikes with Charisma, which allows you to team up Elven Accuracy and Great Weapon Master.
The only things that feel off with this character are the progression (which is fixable) and the fact that despite being a character that is built around Shadow Blade, you aren't picking it up until at least level 10.
Did a similar character myself that got played up til level 12. Was a Swashbuckler/Shadow Sorcerer.
Final split is 11 rogue, 9 sorc.
Lets you cap both dex and charisma, along with picking up elven Accuracy.
You deal damage with a combination of shadow blade and booming blade, along with quickened spell and the innate disengage that Swashbuckler gets (which lets you stick the secondary booming blade damage more often than not)
You also end up with a bit more overall utility, since the combination of expertise in persuasion and the 9th level Swashbuckler feature, along with access to Darkness, Invisibility and Dimension door lets you really neuter an enemies offense.
Shadow Hound plus Hold Monster is also still a particularly potent combo, even without the Shadow Blade damage.
Plus you are picking up Shadow Blade at level 4, so you are playing a sneaky shadow blader as soon as possible.
What was your level progression?
@@adampohlman5158 1 rogue > 3 sorc > 3 Swashbuckler > 5/6 Sorc > 7 Swashbucker cap out 9 sorc, and then straight rogue.
If you want shadow blade early, I suggest using bladesinger wizard instead of college of swords bard. You still get your extra attack feature as a bladesinger, but you get shadow blade as a level 3 bladesinger, instead of level 10 bard.
I also made a post about how the gloomstalker ranger is a great option to splash into (3 levels)
Massive Drizzt fan here. Indeed when i started this D&D journey from a Novel reader I was first a Drizzt Fan. Now there are two nostalgic builds i want to play. Classic 80's Ninja and now this build. Good job!
This runs into issues with shadowbaldes verbal components. Half-orc would make more sense for the extra damage on each crit as well. With the new material thats been added you would have much more nova potential with this build. Assassin 3/Shadow Sorcerer 3/College of Swords 6/Echo Knight 3/Gloom Stalker 3/Paladin 2. I run this build with the bounty hunter background. The half-orc already mildly shunned by society works as a bounty hunter and an executioner lowering his caste even further. He was forced into the job by the tyrant lord of his home, who made him execute his twin brother(I reflavor the echo as the brother). The build fits very well with this concept considering executioners were generally also healers, Floggers, Knackers, Marriage officiants, Interrogators. They also collected taxes from lepers, brothels and gaming houses. Anyway would love to see you do an updated version of this it was definitely an inspiration for the half-orc executioner.
Wrathful smite is even better than discussed - it is a wisdom check against your spell save DC, not a saving throw. Since the creature is frightened they make the ability check with disadvantage, and they do NOT get to add their saving throw proficiency to the check.
Yeah, it's brilliant to use with booming blade.
Also, it's only a wisdom check to break free of the fear, it's a saving throw to prevent it happening from the start.
Which you can keep it up for longer if you or a party member has...I think Bestow Curse. Disadvantage on an ability check of the casters choice.
Hey Treantmonk,
nice first-round-build ;)
The Problem i see with such a Build is not only the 2nd round of Combat, but also the 2nd fight in an adverturing day, since such a character burns like napalm through it's spell slots ^^'
Recently i thought of a similar build but without Divine Strike and nearly without Spellslots. Combining the Assassin with the Battle Master an the Gloomstalker Ranger.
This one won't deal up to 1.000 damage in the first round of combat - but he's still capable of killing Dragons before they even get a chance to act. And he get's nearly everything back on a short rest - and from 2nd round in combat on, he is still a good archer.
If you're interestet: just mail me and i'll send you my Ranged Assassin Warrior :)
DieinnereStimme is it though? Battlemaster and Bard are short rest classes, and he still has extra attack. That’s still 2*(1d8+7)+2d6 a round, more if using Shadow Blade. A short rest and he can add a d8 or d10 to that attack.
@@AdeptPaladin yes, of course this character isn't as useless in a fight without any Spellslots as a full Sorcerer would be. But at 20th Level The Shadow Blade Assassin without spell slots seems like as powerfull as a 10th Level martial Character. And he can burn all of his Spellslots in about 2 fights (which a sorcerer doesn't).
And yes, afer a short rest, he get's Action Surge + Superiority Dice + Inspirations back. But a 11th Level Fighter gets Action Surge + even more Superiority Dice which are d10s back and does 3 Attacks a round. So after the first 1-2 fights, the 11th Level Battle Master seems to be better than this Character on Level 20.
That's the reason, my "first-round-build" does have 11 Levels of Battle Master ;)
This fire burns brighter of course - but the brightest fires burn out the fastest.
I was thinking of making ranged one shot - one kill style character: Bugbear Assassin 17/Gloom Stalker 3, but I wondered about adding fighter in there.
@@DarthRamzes Fighter 11, Gloom Stalker 3 does 8 Attacks in round 1, adding 2 free d8s.
Btw: Assassin isn't in the mix for the auto-crits if you surprise an enemy - because either you go alone an stealthy (and bore your group to death) or you go as a group and surely someone fails his Stealth Check...
So Assassin is in there for auto-advantage in turn 1, mixed with elven accuracy (+alert) and 8 attacks, this is one quasi-guaranteed crit, which is enough to double those Sneak-Attack Dice :)
@@DieinnereStimme Sure, you're right about them running out of resources quickly. You might also consider, however, that the sorcerer may be hindered by his lack of ability to burn so brightly when, say, he's fighting the big bad, as he is likely to be doing at level 20. Full casters gain staying power by having lots of slots, but they're held back by being unable to use more than one (or maybe two) per round.
I wonder if using echo knight would be better for this build now that it's out. You can use the extra attack from the echo instead of counting on great weapon master, freeing up the ASI.
The extra movement would be a good addition too.
You said with wrathful smite ,anytime over the next minute you hit with a melee weapon you get 1d6 extra damage, but I believe that damage only happens one time on the next hit, the frightened effect can last up to one minute.
I had built a Shadow Sorcerer / Paladin that was along similar lines - and had been working on refining it after i dropped my first 100+ damage single shot on a crit - lots to think about here - salutations to you and the player that submitted the build - The community of Optimancers you’ve been building seem to be a very creative bunch!
I really liked the story before the build!
If I was to do my own take on the build I'd build them as such
Gloomstalker Ranger 3/Fighter 2/Conquest Paladin 3/Whisper Bard 12.
Changing Sword to Whisper gives you a secondary "smite" option, which is also psychic damage.
Changing Assassin to Gloomstalker removes your auto crit and advantage on those who haven't gone yet (unless using revised ranger) but it gives you the missing "extra attack" (at least for the first round). The biggest reason though I suggest this is because of Umbral Sight. If you are fighting in areas where someone needs Darkvision, which as a Drow, you should be, you are invisible to them unless they light up the room, giving you a very constant source of using that Elven Accuracy feat, without needing to be using your Shadow Blade (you'd still be using it, but still) or needing to worry about Greater Invisibility.
Swapping Fighter and Paladin loses you the Superiority dice, but gives you a clutch +10 to a roll once per short rest, and gives you access to Armor of Agathys, shoring up that low HP you said the build was hurting for.
Ach, I’m working on this! Of course TM will do it better...
Also... first? Wow, first first. I’m using sneak attack!
Full disclosure: The basics of this build were given to me, I just fleshed it out. I mention that in the vid ;)
Ach! You got me. Xo
Target is surprised. Roll for damage.
Pfeifenkraut On average at level 20, my build does ~78 damage in a normal round. That number may be slightly high.
@@Adurnis As TM uploads the video, you instantly click on it. Your fingertips fly over your keyboard as your mind constructs the perfect first comment.
TM gets a notification on his phone, which causes the vibration of said phone to tip off his cup of coffee or tea - you cannot tell from this distance - of the table on to his right foot.
Screaming from the shock of heat and impact, TM stands up from his chair, giving in to the basic instinct of fight or flee...
...which he starts to regret, as he feels a legostone drilling into the sole of his left foot.
The combined damage causes him to fall.
Yor target is now prone and stunned. What do you do?
I think it is slightly more damage if you take 5 gloom stalker, 3 assasin, 3 battlemaster, 1 warlock, 6 sorcerer, and 2 paladin(but your charisma or dex will have to be bad) EDIT: you would have to have a 13 cha or 16 if you dumped your con to 8, need dex because you can’t make shadow blade your hex weapon EDIT 2: with the new echo knight the unleash incarnation makes it better than battle master , because you can have a 12 con for 1 extra attack
now make it with the new bugbear +20d6 XD maybe instead of battlemaster go echo knight lose charisma and get more con for +2 attack (assuming you already have your echo up) and bye bye
I know this is random, but you look and sound exactly like the jujitsu coach Stephan Kesting. Thanks for the videos!
Shadow Blade, Bless, Wrathful Smite and a few others are all Concentration. What combo would you use to get passed that? Ultimately, would you just go Shadow Blade with all the other Advantages and Crits?
He's likely benefiting from someone else's Bless
Else, ya, this is why Concentration exists.
A big help would be to take 1/2 varient dark elf instead of fully dark elf, better starting stats and no disadvantage in sunlight
Don't forget adventure league legal!
"Let me tell you about this build. I first had the idea one fall evening while I was having a glass of hot cider..."
What's the BUILD
Eternal DM, I'm excited about trying something similar to this build at 4 lvls Assassin 4 lvls Battle master, 12 lvls Bard of Swords, in that order. Elven Accuracy, Alert, Great Weapon Fighting. I'll play it from lvl 13. I'll think about it, I gotta play a pure diviner first for the bucket list believe it or not.
Typing it out because it took me a minute to understand:
From surprise, you precast Shadow Blade and maybe Hide action, then wait a round.
Cast SWS, netting criticals to 5 targets for 60d10 force damage. You could action surge to do this twice, for 120d10 force damage. End 5 feet from anything still standing.
GWM bonus action to weapon attack, getting Sneak, can smite as well.
Or:
From surprise, you precast Shadow Blade and maybe Hide action, then wait a round.
Attack with Sneak, Maneuver, flourish, smite,
Extra attack with maneuver and smite.
Action Surge
Attack with maneuver, smite,
Extra attack with maneuver and smite.
GWM Bonus action attack with smite
That's five attacks with shadow blade, five smites, four maneuvers, 1 flourish, all with Dueling +2's
Sounds right. Then double all the dice for the criticals. With Steel wind strike too.
Only one correction: Your first instance would not activate GWM as GWM requires a melee weapon hit, and SWS is not that, so there would be no weapon attack or opportunity for smite.
I'm not convinced you can do two SWS in one round even with action surge. The RaW doesn't say it is forbidden but it seems to me that there is some constraint applied to avoid casting two spells in one round.
@@DavidJeames There's nothing preventing two leveled spells being cast on the same turn if neither of them are a bonus action.
Sage advice: www.sageadvice.eu/2014/09/23/action-surge-spell-2/
So Steel Wind Strike triggers the GWM bonus action attack? I was under the impression that just because you use the weapon in casting the spell, it didn't necessarily count as "with a weapon" for GWM purposes.
These multi-multi class builds are silly.
I have a character I am currently using in Adventure's League that is basically a more consistent NOVA burst dealing damage. She's a fallen aasimar currently with the following build: Paladin 2/Hexblade 5/Whispers Bard 8 with Polearm Master that uses a glaive.
Hex Warrior lets me use my +6 Charisma(I have a tome) for my attack & damage rolls, Hexblade's Curse raises my Critical to 19 and adds my proficiency(+5) to damage.
Eldritch Smite Invocation gives me extra 428 force damage from expending a Warlock spell slot (3rd level) and Whispers Bard's Psychic Blades lets me use a bardic dice to add 3d6 psychic damage. Add Great Weapon Fighting Style to let me reroll a 1 or 2 on my weapon damage and I can potentially deal(on a crit with max damage) 214 damage on the first attack, 114 on the 2nd attack, and 102 on my third attack (from Polearm Master) for a total of 438.
Just out of curiosity, how would the damage output look if this build went college of whispers for the psychic blades attack, and just took 2 more levels in fighter or 3 more levels in paladin for extra attack? I know we're building for Shadow Blade damage, but I'm curious.
Wouldn't Alert be more useful than GWM? Acting first is crucial to get those critical hits in.
Synthcopath OffTheAir I agree.
Well the 5 attacks in the final math are dependent on the extra bonus action attack from GWM (attack, extra attack, action surge attack, action surge extra attack, GWM bonus action attack). So GWM is required for maximum potential, but Alert would be more reliable.
Depending on how your GM runs combat though, if you're going in stealthy as an assassin, your attack may be what starts initiative, in which case Alert isn't as useful.
I'm assuming surprise on first round, which means you will 100% go first. There is a 20% damage reduction to take alert.
@@TreantmonksTemple If they roll initiative higher than you, then they are not surprised anymore, even if you surprise them. You will still act before them (because they can't act) and have advantage, but you aren't guaranteed the crits if they beat you on init. I guess it depends if your DM is saying there is a "surprise round", which, I believe, is not the way it's written. You should definitely check with the DM in terms of how he's ruling assassinate before you invest in something as ridiculous as this.
It is a sad day indeed when a assassin takes a level in paladin
I think it's very interesting to see how powerful multi classing can be, but i don't know if it would be fun to play this if your campaign started at lv 1
I don't agree. Rogue is fantastic at low levels. I think this would be fun throughout the entire campaign
@@becomeanastronaut6232 yes, rogue is fun, but if your goal is to do this Nova damage, you will get some of it at lv 5, and the rest won't really kick in until high levels. Fun is subjective, but it feels to me like the point of this build is to get those massive high numbers, which won't happen until high levels, then you'd spend most of your low levels excited about the potential but not focused on the now. Plus, if your PC dies, then that might be jarring as you had been so looking forward to tier 3+ that you hadn't considered low tier death.
If you can have fun playing this character knowing you have to start at lv 1, go for it. I'm not stopping you. I personally think this would be more fun as a high tier 1 shot character where you play all night right at lv 10 or higher than a "campaign from lv 1" character
Now that Tasha's is out and you can rearrange racial stat bonuses half orc might be a better choice to add the savage attacks bonus on your crits
you can not use sneak attack 2 times in a turn, so if you use sneak attack on your reaction you can not use it on your action (attack) and vice versa.
And please if someone can answer me how you do 5 attack in one turn without haste spell cause i still dont get it...
once per turn you can use sneak attack, not on your turn
when you end your turn, sneak attack comes back online, you just need to attack with your reaction (opportunity attack, riposte, brace)
I realize there's no space in this build to get extra attack from a different source without giving up 6th level slots, but it's a shame that you can't mix in College of Whispers Bard for the 5d6 from bardic inspiration dice.
Also a shame that Gloomstalker needs 13 WIS, cause that's potentially two more attacks if the stats could be made to work.
I thought I'd add something on the RP part of playing this multiclass. I've just started playing this and I'm current Rogue/Assassin 3 and Paladin 1. Rather than playing it as being an assassin who fell into fanaticism and then clawed out, my idea is that it's a drow assassin who met and fell in love with the priestess of a secret Elistraee sect in the underdark. With her help he's made his way to the surface. The paladin pick is a paladin of Elistraee but she is also a goddess of dance, music and swordplay so the bard and fighter picks are really in theme as well.
I’ve been looking for ways to effectively use shadow blade ever since I realized pact of the blade warlocks cannot use the spell with their invocations... Kind of a bummer since that spell seems like it would be perfect thematically for a warlock. One idea I had for shadow blade was paladin 6 / sorcerer 14, since you could get two attacks and then quicken booming blade for a third attack, smiting on all 3. Seems like it would be a more well rounded character at least. Also every time I try to play around with the shadow blade idea, I always end up realizing that spirit guardians is better in almost every scenario haha. This might be the first build where that’s not the case.
Same conclusion, although a 1 level dip in war cleric could garner you some additional bonus action attacks at lower levels, depending on your wisdom.
@@noncanalepricnipale Technically they can use the spell, but not as effectively as you would think. The warlock Eldritch Invocations Thirsting Blade and Lifedrinker only apply to your pact weapon, and since there is no way within the rules to turn Shadow Blade into your pact weapon, you will be stuck making one attack per round with it.
@@noncanalepricnipale also hexblades use charisma to attack with their hex weapon and shadowblades hit is either dex or str depending on which is higher
The problem with this character build is level progression not the combat round viability. It just needs one bad Initiative roll during the crappy stages. Adventure League has some ambush scenarios as well. So, assuming you are playing this in Adventure League, one bad round of combat and either you are starting a new character from scratch or wasting resources to ressurect this one with the hopes that it does not happen again.
And even in high or max level, one crappy initiative roll or an ambush can mean trying to stay alive as opposed to dealing damage. The character has some front loading to do.
Still, impressive damage.
Hey man. I’m curious to see how you would build a character, where you have flying and drop enemies or things onto enemies.
The thing is that the rules don't really explain how that would work, so it's more about working with your DM than me making a build
holy crap the only negative on this character is in wisdom saving throws and it can do so much damage also if your playing with optional critical hit rules the extra dice from critical hits are doubled
not doubled my bad they are maxed out so a d6 critical dice would always do 6 damage
To my understanding Steel Wind strike requires a weapon worth atleast 1sp which shadow blade does not qualify for.
Also the whole melee spell attack vs melee weapon attack others have mentioned
But that is a component. You could easily store that in a Component pouch or the like and you would still qualify for sws
Steel wind strike is not being combined with shadow blade here.
@@TreantmonksTemple okay then ^^ but i would till say that steel wind stike only deals the 6d10 and not any more, look at eldritch blast doing 1d10 and then having to get a feature to add the modifier. also booming blade specificly says "On a hit, the target suffers the attack's normal effects," while steel wind strike does not have this clause.
@@moto2442 You flourish the weapon used in the casting
Steel Wind Strike says "You flourish the weapon used in the casting" that means Shadow Blade doesn't qualify.
Ready to make this build even more disgusting now? Switch the fighter to an Echo Knight for two additional hits turn one and double your amount of targets for your Steel Wind Strike. You can also have additional protection just from literally doing all of your melee attacks from the back line. It's insane.
Had a similar idea but I doubled down on Charisma and instead of sorc, I used hexblade to get me shadow blade, had an oath paladin (conquest I think). So after the first round you're still a paladin lock able to short rest and still burn up smites. I also think my max damage tapered off at like 600, happy to share if interested.
Divine smite should be 25d8 for 5 attacks since it caps at 5d8, unless this is assuming an undead or fiend. So minimum would be 149 and max would be 943. I know you presented the build as presented to you, Echo Knight fighter would provide higher damage numbers though, with an average damage of 695: seven attacks instead of 5: 2 from extra attack, 1 attack from echo, action surge: 2 from extra attack, 1 from echo, 1 bonus action from GWM. Now you'd run out of 5d8 smites but the damage calc would look like this: 35 (dex mod) + 14 (dueling fighting style) + 4d6 (sneak attack) + 2d10 (Flourish) + 70d8 (Shadow blade) + 68d8 (smites) for the average listed above. Also a minimum damage of 193 and a maximum damage of 1,197. Though this isn't adventure league legal because it uses EGtW.
Do you have the char sheet of that build, tks u so much
Divine smites in this build can only reach 23d8, not 30 (28d8 only for fiends). What you'd call a 4d8 to 14d8 'margin of error' I guess.
I feel like gloomstalker is worth taking here. If we take away 1 level of fighter and 2 levels of bard we can fit it in.
This means our shadow blade does 1d8 less damage per attack, so overall 10d8 damage lost there, and we lose the 8d8 from battlemaster.
However, we gain 2 full attacks from dread ambush and action surge.
We get 2 attacks that deal 4d8+7, and 2 smites, which are both 5d8 (since they’re 3rd level slots). Double that damage for crits and we gain
16d8+14 from the attacks, and 20d8 from the smites. At the cost of 18d8
The link to the completed dndbeyond character build is from your last build video.
Thanks, I'll get that corrected.
@@TreantmonksTemple i hope you're inspired to make a swarm summoner. Where is that niche in 5e? nowhere? I was always inspired by a villain in the anime movie "Ninja Scroll". I think you could do a better job than i could.
@@TreantmonksTemple Just to let you know, the link in the Double Bladed Scimitar video now links to this character instead!
@@martinwigham OK, I'm not Sherlock Holmes, but I'm beginning to see what happened :)
Still trying to figure out how to start as a rogue, multiclass into a fighter for two levels, and then tripleclass into wizard without becoming completely useless.
If you could squeeze two levels of grave cleric in there you can give your target vulnerability for the whole round with a bonus action.
I know that using your own variant rules for builds would make the videos niche content and might not get as many views, but will you be releasing any Treantmonk variant build guides once you've finished the spell list?
Still deciding. If I do, they will be Friday vids
@@sharkforce8147 Paladin yes, sneak attack is going to be less reliable on a lance charge - if opponent is medium yes, but larger opponents, might require a bit of tactics and a couple rounds set up.
I Decided to make a build that would do as much damage as it could in a single round. Have yet to watch this video so there might be some simularitries but i got it up to 1003 damage before feats, before magic effects, and before any buffs. Now i wanna see how much i can do with all of that
what actually build did you do?
Drow Criminal; 13-15-12-8-8-15(point buy) / 14-15-12-8-10-13(standard array); Any gaming set, any tool;
Rogue 3 - Assassin; Acrobatics, Athletics, Intimidation, Sleight of Hand; Expertise in Stealth and Perception; Rapier, shortbow&arrows, burglars pack,
Paladin 2; Dueling; Bless, Wrathful Smite, 2x any;
Fighter 3 - Battlemaster; Defensou know how to strike subtly and exploit a foe's distraction. Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack if you have advantage on the attack roll. The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon.
You don't need advantage on the attack roll if another enemy of the target is within 5 feet of it, that enemy isn't incapacitated, and you don't have disadvantage on the attack roll.e; Any tool; Riposte, Precision Attack, Menacing Attack;
Bard 12 - Swords; Any instrument, Persuasion; Two-weapon fighting; Expertise in Acrobatics, Athletics, Persuasion, Deception; Elven Accuracy(Dex), Dex+2, GWM; Shadow Blade, Steel Wind Strike.
Prestidigitation, Minor Illusion, Mage Hand, Friends; Healing Word, Comprehend Languages; Blindness/Deafness, Silence; Dispell Magic, Tiny Hut; Dimension Door, Greater Invisibility, Locate Creature; Greater Restoration, Animate Objects; Mass Suggestion, True Seeing.
Only about half way through so it might be answered later, but would it not be better to take Defense fighting style with Paladin and the TWF style with fighter so you could keep using the short swords?
***Never mind, I can see what will happen with Bard. Still, could take Archery with Fighter and just pick one melee style to go with for Bard for more versatility.
Probably now that you mention it
Im gonna consider taking this, but i have to play it very situationally or i might lose said big attack.
Made a similar build aiming for sustained damage instead of nova damage. Full build comes online at level 13 (ugh ikr), Fighter 1/Bard 10 (Swords)/Cleric 2 (Twilight). Basically it's a way to get advantage for shadow blade via twilight sanctuary. Take Fighter (Battlemaster) 3-4 at later levels for more opportunities to make attacks out of turn or more attacks in general (riposte, brace, quick toss). Alternatively go Champion for crit fishing (19% chance to crit or 27.1% if you can fit Elven Accuracy). The rest is up to you to take Bard or Cleric levels for added spells and versatility.
This is a glass cannon oof time to pull out the tarasque
I've watched this build a number of times. It is a lot like Drizzt's 3E stats except Drizzt is a mix of 1 barbarian/10 Ftr/5 Rgr.
So you can't get the bonus for GWM as you arnt using a heavy weapon. And you can only use one battle manuver per weapon attack
I wonder what you might change on this is 2022, especially in light of the changes to spells like Steel Wind Strike that now make it require an actual weapon instead of shadowblade (boo!)
Would you swap BM for Gloomstalker perhaps? maybe that action surge is just too valueable.
Imagine another player being a cleric & channel divinity path to the grave to give the enemy vulnerability to all that damage.
I don't know if you'll ever read this since the video is so old but you guys got the spell Steel Wind Strike's effect wrong. It doesn't do 5 weapon attacks for the weapon's damage. You flourish the weapon used and make a melee spell attack against up to 5 creatures you can see within range. On a hit a target takes 6d10 force damage. There is absolutely no point in upcasting shadow blade. Ever.
So, first off, fucking hell the number of dice to roll. Second, I do have a question or two concerning this build. I'm new to D&D so correct me if I'm wrong, but is it even possible to mix and match the battle maneuvers through attacks? Along with casting "Smite" each time? Or was it a "one and done" kind of thing that covered all the attacks.
Too bad you can't fit 2 levels of Grave Cleric for Path to the Grave. Only affects 1 target, but, that target takes double damage. Kill the minions AND the bbeg. Just sayin'.
i mean the if's add up alot for the final dmg calculation.
- 5 attacks mean you attack with bonus action. so shadow blade has to be cast beforehand ( Verbal components ) so if you have a strict dm, hiding these could become difficult.
- or you need the great weapon master feat. so you have to kill a someone to attack again, which means you need two enemies. to sneak onto.
- you need to sneak into mele, with shadow blade taking your concentration.
- its a drow. so this isnt possible in sunlight.
I mean this would only be a critical if the opponent is surpised. As an assassin if you played solo? Of course, great. But dnd is played in a group, you're not going to get surpise as much as you like.
This is a gimmick character.
Just a note, you can easily increase your damage by putting poison on your weapons. Roughly 75% of creatures are affected by poison.
Can you put poison on a Shadow Blade?
Brian F. I don’t know why you couldn’t but even if your DM Rules that you couldn’t, Wyvern poison at 10d6? 12d6? Would be way more damage than 5d8.
SharkForce Well not, the 12D6 from the Wyvern Poison.
But there are poisons that don’t require saving throws that would work. Flying Snake Poison for example.
How can anyone underrate Jack of all trades? the bonus to counterspell and dispel magic saved our asses numerous times.
Sorry to ask but, how the frick you're supposed to tick the -5/+10 only using shadow blade?
Riposte.
Ree-paws-tay.
Sorry. Feel like an ass for pointing it out but it bugs me.
Great video though.
The only way that would work is if and i mean if you have a round to prepare the shadow blade before the surprise round
Not me unable to use surprise rounds but still doing gods works as the cleric/bard uses hold monster.
I saw something similar on Min/Max Munchkin. I thought this was like... known? ^^
Yeah, I follow that channel as well
With all the artisan tools, you should pick up poisoner's kit and throw in some worm poison for another 12d6 or half on sav ;P
what even is the combat rotation for this character lol. Like what is the turn sequence and what skills/spells do you use in what order lmao. it hurts my head
Why Swords over Whispers if you don't need the fighting style? Whispers gives you more damage dice?
this character is nutz but i still like the shadowbane smiter a little more, if i ever get to play a level 20 game i will use this guy and watch my gms face lol.
This character doesn't work. Steel wind strike is going to always deal 6d10 damage on a hit it doesn't stack with shadow blade
So one thing I tend to let my characters do is buy various items for certain purposes like buying face masks to help deal with poison gases for in the case of drow goggles for dealing with harsh light, and protecting their eyes
I also let them buy things to store specific items like a belt to store healing potions so they can use healing potions as a bonus action, or a pouch to store items that are needed on hand you get the picture I let them buy gear that can help improve their quality of life but are distinctly not magical
OK, the goggles for drow is sick.
I thought we were killing a single target as described at the start of the video?? How are you using a Great Weapon Master bonus action to attack the boss if you haven't killed any other enemies?
Garett Robertson when you make a crit, you get the bonus action
I don't think this build would work at all:
Steel Wind Strike is considered as a melee spell attack, not a weapon attack. Therefore, a melee spell attack cannot trigger features like Dex bonus dmg modifier, sneak attacks, and divine smith, which all require weapon attack.
It's already confirmed by sage advice: www.sageadvice.eu/2018/02/26/does-the-melee-spell-attack-from-steel-wind-strike-count-as-a-weapon-attack/
The Steel Wind Strike doesn't benefit from any of those things, but it will benefit from the auto-crit, which is what I present in the video.
the bard flourish does indeed require you to "take the attack action" meaning it wont work with stelwind strike, but the battlemaster maneuver and paladin smite only require you to "make a weapon attack roll" which is also what is stated in the steelwind strike spell, so those should be fine by RAW.
@@ldyrok What do you mean by bard flourish? Are you talking about Slashing Flourish in Blade Flourish options?
@@TreantmonksTemple Sorry I am confused. What does this build use to hit five targets? Steel Wind Strike or something else?
@@Zynovus yes, the blade flourish states the following: "Whenever you take the Attack action on your turn, your walking speed increases by 10 feet until the end of the turn, and if a weapon attack that you make as part of this action hits a creature, you can use one of the following Blade Flourish options of your choice."
What was that video from with the dual wielding dark elf? Looked just like Drizzt!
Wrathful Smite is only ONE attack, not every atack for next minute.
I thought it was gonna be average… You can do that much damage at like level 15 with magic missile
Funny build, until the target is immune to non-magical weapons
Is shadow blade not a magical sword, it’s a sword literally summoned by magic
Well, the enemies that are immune to non magical weapons are only immune to piercing bludgeoning and slashing.
how good is that character in the lower levels? before you take any bard levels....