The heir did not openly challenge Tokugawa. Instead, when Hideyori the heir sponsored the construction of Hoko-ji temple, Tokugawa read between the lines and found a word on the inscription on the bronze bell to be offensive to him. This was but a flimsy excuse to wage a war to dispose of the heir, which had long been Tokugawa’s plan. The fact is, he cannot claim and enjoy his title as Shogun as long as the heir lives and breathes. Ishida is no better and will most likely do the same if he won. From the very beginning, the heir and his mother’s fates were sealed.
If I remember right Date Masamune advised Ieyasu that if he was not protected by him personally, his political opponents might poison his thinking. When Hideyori aged, he should've sought completely surrendering to Ieyasu anyway, he doesn't even have an official army
Heir to what? Toyotomi Hideyoshi (the Taiko) held no hereditary office or title. His position was based purely on military power and personal relationships with other powerful lords and in the absence of that power it was no more substantial than a puff of dust. People paid homage to his memory mostly to put off the civil war that would otherwise have erupted when he died without an adult heir to take his place. When Tokugawa/Toronaga defeated all his potential opponents, that secured peace for the realm and no link to the late Taiko was necessary.
@@jmgonzales7701 Yeah, he should have, because it was hinted at in every way possible. Bad writing/direction for his character (at least in the hulu show)
I think during that period, Wife Beater is very common in the East and the West, Women simply don't have the same right as men. Just because A LOT of people in the town does it, the concept of it being WRONG is foreign. I mean, in the some Middle East Country, Women are still consider a lower class citizen Legally.
Hear me out: Toranaga was the true villain of SHOGUN. Blackthorne kept begging to leave but Toranaga kept him around just to distract his own enemies. He had many of his own men commit seppuku throughout the show. He sent Mariko to her death. He tortured Akeji village, his own people. He attempted and succeeded in wresting power from the true heir to the taiko. He did many bad things just to seize power, sacrificing even those close to him. And that's exactly what villains do. Toranaga was the villain.
You're a fool to think that heroes and villains actually exist. A hero is a villain and vice versa depending on the side you question. And this concept is actually alien to us in the East even today. There is only doing what is necessary and victory.
He was a bit of a Richard II, wasn't he? But if he hadn't been so Machiavellian, someone else would have, or more likely a lot of someone elses, leading to a renewal of a general civil war and prolonging the _Sengoku_ period. What never would have happened was the realm staying peacefully united under the "heir". (Heir to what, exactly, is never specified, since the Taiko held no hereditary office. It's more or less like Octavian was Julius Caesar's heir, except that Octavian was old enough and competent enough to turn that into a commanding position in the game while the historical Toyotomi Hideyori was neither.) This is why Machiavelli said that things that were vices in ordinary men were virtues in a prince.
that's how great leader do. don't you think? in order to have power there has to be sacrifices made, not to mention all of great leaders had some degree of narcissism. you need to convinced yourself that you are superior to others and could do great things. because you won't be able to become a great leader if you are soft. reminds me of the Korean King called as the "bloody monarch" yes, his rule was nasty, he broke the long lasting culture of the nobility only holding power. he murdered who opposed him, but at the end he did that to give way for the common folk to thrive. I mean there's always blood that need to spilt if you want to change things. and that was Toranaga did.
The laws and systems, which Toranaga crafted, would eliminate an intetnal conflict in Japan in the next 250 years. The irony was that losers at Sekigahara , House Shimadu or House Moori eventually overthrew Toranaga's shogunate 250 years later. The conspiracy within conspiracies. Who won''t give up will eventually win.
Although the character of Kiyama Ukon (one of the Regents) was based on Konishi Yukinaga, the name of the character was based on Takayama (Dom Justo) Ukon, a daimyo who became a Catholic like Konishi. For his support of Ishida Mitsunari, Konishi was executed two weeks after the Battle of Sekigahara. Takayama was exiled to the Philippines in 1614 for refusing to renounce his beliefs, where he died the following year. A statue of him still stands today in one of the plazas in Manila.
The system survived at the expense of serf/slaves by the regular citizens. By blocking foreign ideas, the enlightenment of the equality of all did not thrive in shogunate Japan. It wasn’t till the West forced opening that some enlightment progress was made. Some historians hypothesize that WW2 was partly fought by Japanese nobility to halt or reverse the modernization of Japanese society It took a benign enlightened western despot in MacArthur to bring democracy, rights of women and weakening of inherited feudal power. The Shogun’s victory hurt the average Japanese. Fascinating history.
🤣 It isn't good to act like you're an expert when you absolutely have ZERO idea what you're talking about. 🥴 First off China, Japan, and Korea have long history with one another, this includes music. Please tell us why you think the music is Chinese and tell us what instrument they're using. 👏😂
@@obryn First of all, I am Japanese and am a researcher of classical music from the Nara, Heian, Kamakura, Muromachi, and Edo periods. The difference between Japanese and Chinese traditional music is that the scale is different. This is basic. The instruments used are also different. For example, the music for Japanese Noh and Kabuki is different from the music for classical Chinese dance. Let's listen to more music. Someday you'll notice the difference in yours too.
@@gn-z1130 This isn't from those periods. It's a modern song with influences of those periods. The song is called Greeted in Osaka: ruclips.net/video/uDlUDztLspc/видео.html&ab_channel=SightofWonders-Topic
Fuji was real, she was just not as important as her book/series counterpart. Hiromatsu did indeed had a granddaughter, but she was not really involved in any of the historical events.
My thoughts after reading the novel around Fuji is that was "her" happy ending she fulfilled her duty to her liege lord, made sure blackthorns house was in a good position by making sure he would be taken care of. Also she can finally join her husband and child in the afterlife.
@@nont18411No, there weren't any Portuguese women in Japan during this time period. It means a Portuguese sailor picked it up in South America. Then passed it on to a Japanese hooker, who then passed it on to the Japanese man.
Though Clavell never took up the character of John Blackthorne again, he is mentioned in passing in Clavell’s novel “Gai-Jin,” which takes place a couple of centuries later as Japan is being forced to re-open to the West. It’s no “Shogun,” but it has a lot in the way of that novel’s bloody sweep and colorful characters based loosely on real historical events and people, and I’d certainly be intrigued to see what the producers of the Hulu miniseries could do with it.
Whilst I don’t recall what happened I did read the books around 1988 i remember enjoying them and would move to see more of Clavell’s books made into series. Fascinating that the Anjin is mentioned in a different book set so long after! Some people keep asking for a season 2 of this but let’s face it without Mariko and Yabushige it just wouldn’t be the same. I also saw in interviews that it was the most expensive show in FC X history and it took 6000 special effects to make this show when on average it takes 1000-2000 special effects in an effects heavy show. I’m sure that the audience and critics response and the hopefully many many awards this show will receive will encourage FX to keep riding the Clavell Asian historical drama train. 🤞 ❤
The idea that Clavell ending for Fujiko is not a happy ending is very western. She wanted to die and follow her son and husband, she got exactly that, you couldnt ask for a happier ending.
I know it's a limited series and some shows are better off left where they ended. But even without the source material, I'd love to see this continuation if it will be made by the same brilliant people behind the show
That was not actually how Mitsunari’s side lost, but it certainly propelled various daimyo and retainers to take sides, and on to Sekigahara. The actual battle was over in a matter of hours, due to the defection of Kobayakawa Hideaki of the Western Army to Tokugawa’s Eastern Army at the last minute. That turned the tide of the battle.
In real life Ishida was the good guy (a war hero, very loyal to the rightful heir), Toranaga was the ambitious general. The council members supported Ishida and died in battle with him including that Leprosy guy forgot his name.. was actually a samurai hero before the battle of sekigahara and commited sepuku when they were defeated by Toranaga. As the video stated the real reason why Ishida was defeated was because Yodo-dono suddenly withdrew their support but in the end they were double crossed by Toranaga.
The acting in this show is soooo good that it just overshadowed alot of plot that wasn't properly build up tbh. Ochiba's sudden alliance to Toranaga makes zero sense, she was basically turned into Ishido's puppet when the showed tried mid-way to build her up as the puppet master, despite wielding considerable military might and a hatred for Toranaga for her father's death, she gave up the chance to win..by what? Being Toranaga's puppet? Isn't she disgraced by her marriage to Ishido when he loses? And if you are Ishido... why bring Toronaga's brother back to the capital when he should have placed Toranaga in confinement and under his watch, which limits his power to command his men? Annnnd.... bombing the storage room knowing Mariko was inside was dumb as hell... I'm assuming they had the place surrounded..so it's just a matter of time to break down the door... even if she wasn't standing by the door...you still run the risk of killing her with a fucking cannon. Great show....but some of the plot element needed a bit more context i guess
the switch of Ochiba indeed made zero sense, if she would have married Ishido, her son would more easily become the next ruler, while she knew Toronaga would want to be shogun himself. I didn't really like the acting of blackthorne, way over the top. The rest was good indeed
Not shown near the beginning with the rest of Clavell's books is his charming, fully illustrated children's fantasy "Thrump-o-Moto", featuring a boy Japanese wizard, that was nearly made into an animated film by Rankin-Bass ("The Last Unicorn").
The method of execution of Ishida Mitsunari (Ishido) is wrong. Ishida's execution is a "beheading'' that is carried out on ordinary criminals. This is because, as of 1600, Ieyasu(Toranaga) was not yet a shogun and was still in the position of a vassal of Hideyoshi, so the same vassal could not be given such a particularly heavy punishment. If he were forced to do so, he would further arouse the resentment of the people who were in Ishida's territory, and some of the feudal lords who were on his side would have sympathized with Ishida, which would have a negative impact to become shogun. To be clear, this is the punishment excuted to Sugitani Zenjuhbo, who tried to assassinate Hideyoshi's lord, Oda Nobunaga, with a gun and failed in 1573. He was buried by the side of the main road with only his head exposed. It is said that by using a deliberately dull bamboo saw, passing travelers were forced to cut his neck one by one, thereby prolonging his suffering and killing him. The idea is that the crime committed by the most powerful person at the time is the most serious, and this brutal execution is unprecedented.
I hated buntaro at first, but later on i saw him as a true samurai warrior, loyal, honorable (admit wrong, stick to the code no matter what, like apologize when made commotion at blackthorne home) faithful, loved his wife, and just felt human
Every RUclipsr Expert has a different view of how everyone died in real life, but they are all different outcomes. Even when no one do any real research.
Was syphillis rampant in those days in Japan? How come they say Ieyasu died of possible syphillis? Did they examined his corpse or written health records to say such thing?
Yes, but it had probably come from china centuries earlier (which got it from europe or the middle east via the silk road) rather than from the portuguese.
@@chocoball604 Centuries earlier? The lethal form of syphilis that swept Europe in the late 15th century - only slightly more than one century before the show is set - didn't exist anywhere in Europe or Asia until Columbus' men brought it back from the New World.
The Hosakawa (Buntaro) family were highly relevant after the 1870s ， one of his descendent was the Japanese prime minister in the 1990s ( though not of Mariko’s line) en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morihiro_Hosokawa
You didn't mention that Mariko's story in the novel was different from both the 2024 Shogun and real history. The early Shogun kept closer to the novel which highlighted the active love story between these two main characters, Anjin and Mariko.
You should mention that in real life Hosokawa Gracia never even met William Adams and he was nowhere near the battle or the lead up to it. Also, one of Tadaoki and Gracias's descendants was Prime Minister of Japan 30 years sgo.
A higher rank than Emperor, kind of. The emperor is/was considered to have the highest level of reverence and prestige, but also not allowed to exercise any power whatsoever. So emperors just sort of… hung out while the military and/or regime leadership holds all the power.
The emperor is the religious leader and head of state. But the shogun was head of the government. Sort of like the King of england vs the Prime Minister.
In my headcanon after the touching boat scene, Blackthorne convinces Fuji not to become a nun and they eventually get married and have kids like William Adams.
Her character was amazing because of her undying love and devotion to her late husband and child. Going your route just ruins all of that and greatly cheapens the love between Blackthorn and Mariko.
@@kit99bar I don't think People back then interpret "Love" the same way as Modern society though. Sex and Procreation is not the same as love. Just imagine you can go to the Tea House and it is not consider cheating. Legally, that is still not consider cheating in Japan because it is a business transaction.
@@jmgonzales7701 According to the book, they had sex, fuji was implied to be pregnant with Blackthorn's child. But she took her own life as she wanted with Toranaga's permission. Blackthorn marries another Japanese woman and settled in Japan and never got to England. He gave up this Dream of returning and growing old in London when He dropped Mariko's cross in lake. The ending is pretty brutal
This is why Hiroyuki Sanada hired Japanese staff and actors for Shogun. He's had bitter experiences over the years with Hollywood's portrayals of "strange Japan ". They mix up Japan and China so often.
There is no source material by James Clavell that continues the story of Toranaga and/or Blackthorne. We all saw what happened when producers had to write material after they used up all source material with Game of Thrones, so I wouldn’t want to see that happen with Shogun.
Mmmmmm I don't think that was sort of a "dream" Blackthorne returned to England and had children/grandchildren. In the show, they didn't specify he was having a dream. I think he did manage to flee Japan and return to England where he married, had offspring and lived peacefully
Toranaga is not a mastermind and just lucky He does get more powerful because of all the marriages he has in his family but the council gets behind this. At the same time they confront him Ochiba is in his castle because a relative of hers is given birth. That is nothing you can really plan that is just luck in timing. When he tries to flee that plan only works because of the Anjin. Again luck, Later, he decides to attack Osaka but his army gets nearly destroyed, so he needs the army of his brother. Remember that for later. Oh, btw his whole army got surrounded by the army of his brother but then they somehow left? At this point he is done but he does get a second chance because his son is so dumb and kills himself. lol. Now, he can be sad for 40 days but he also makes his best friend kill himself to appear as a broken man but this never really has any effect anyway. He sends Mariko to the castle to split Ochiba and Ishido but the thing is Oshiba and Mariko have not seen eachother in years so that might not even work. Agian luck. Mariko also dies only because Ishido wants her captured but I am not even sure why? Like, even if others decide to leave too the four armys of the council with the banner of the heir are the legit force. Everyone else would therefore betray them. Not sure if all these family members leaving would even cause an issue and I also never saw a real reason to take them hostage in the first place. Now, because of that Oshiba will betray Ishido but Oshiba also wants to kill Toranaga and sees him as a threat. So, now she chooses to somehow revenge Mariko instead of protecting herself and her son. Btw, it seems Mariko would have never done the same thing. Even without the heir you would have the army of the council against Toranaga and I do not see him win that battle or why everyone should abandon Toranaga. They all want him death at the end. This gets even more weird considering that Toranaga lost quit a big portion of his army and needed his brother’s support. When killing Yabushige he also mentioned he could attackign Osaka directly would have failed but that was his plan a few episodes before^^ When it comes to Toranagas plan the show is a total mess 2) What is John even doing in this story? Since he gets so much screentime you would expect him to have some sort of value but besides helping Toranaga escape and also that was luck he didn't really do much. Verdict: Each episode is good for itself but as a story it is just straight up disappointing. Maybe there will be a season two John will play a bigger role but the whole operation of Toranaga is luck.
@@zeroskaterz92 broi I am talking about the show not history. The show might be based on history but the portrayal of it is not 1:1 as you should know if you know history so well^^
He died during the Sekigahara battle. But History did not record which side he fought on. But I can see him Turning against Ishido when he saw the writing on the wall.
Compliments to the writer of this clip. It’s so refreshing to hear the phrase “equally [adj]” instead of the irritating American tautology ‘equally as [adj.].
Although this drama is partially based on historical fact, people should realize that it is a typical fantasy written by an Anglo-Saxon author and is completely different from historical fact. The novel was often criticized by historians in Japan for emphasizing exoticism, excessively depicting seppuku, and portraying women in an excessively sexual manner. The efforts of Mr. Sanada and other Japanese staff members to achieve a decent level of detail is worthy of praise. However, the script remained fundamentally obsessed with the strange old Japan.
You really should have added that the author was a Japanese POW. He wrote the book King Rat based on his experiences which was made into a movie. He was not just some Anglo-Saxon author, but wrote numerous scripts for award winning movies, other best selling books about Japan and China and even directed an award winning movie.
People keep praising this show, but I think it ended like garbage. The fact people need to come to RUclips to find closure to the story proves my point. The character building was good, then they tare it all down for a stale ending that has no action or feeling of accomplishment. It should have just been a movie.
N that’s the point “why do the ignorant who never fought in battle wants to go more than a person who have”. Respectfully you’re the ignorant. The point of the show was never war it was making war seem possible in order to manipulate the enemy. Obviously the strategy worked for real life shogun to reign for 200 years
remember the eight fences? What you say in public is not what you think. That is so special about the Toranaga - Yabushige talk. Both talking with their "heart", since one slash later, the "heart" will be secret again.
U have to know how toranaga thinks. Even when he says everything to yabu he doesnt say it all. For him blackthorne is a wild card and lucky charm. He got saved by blackthorne twice, he is more important than he lets out. He just doesnt say it.
I don't think ANYONE is important to Toranaga. What he was saying is Anjin is not important to his Grand Plan, because the result would have been the same regardless. But if he truly think Anjin is not important, he wouldn't stopped him some Commiting Sepakku and forbid him from leaving Japan. He also need the Anjin later because he don't trust the Portugese, is good to have someone with outside information and might keep the Portugese in check.
@@steak5599 if he wasn’t important how did he plan leaving Osaka without the black ship anjin idea and how he made the soldiers don’t check the boxes plus anjin very presence was the one thing that kept him alive
@@quantumeyes8546 様(sama) The original novel differs greatly from the historical facts. I don't know the original author's plan, so I don't know why Lady Ochiba helped Toranaga. In historical fact, after Hideyoshi's death, the feudal lords who were his vassals split into two groups, the legal wife faction and the birth mother faction, and there was a fierce conflict between them. Yodo-dono(Yodo-gimi), who is the model for Lady Ochiba, is Hideyori's birth mother, but she is also a concubine, and originally Hideyoshi's legal wife, Nene(O-ne/ Kita-no-mandokoro), is of a higher status, but when his successor, Hideyori, was born, she became actually a same status. The Battle of Sekigahara (1600) was fought between these two factions. The legal wife faction rallied around East Japan's Ieyasu(Toranaga) as its leader, but since Ishida (Ishido) of the birth mother faction had a low rank, he appointed Mori Terumoto, the highest rank in western Japan, as the commander-in-chief. He went behind the scenes and tried to gather his army together. However, due to various maneuvers on Ieyasu's side, they lacked unity and were defeated. If Yodo-dono made it clear that she was supporting Ishida, she would be in a very disadvantageous position, and Ieyasu also wanted to maintain his advantage in the future, so they decided to end the battle by calling it a fight between vassals of the Toyotomi family. Therefore, in reality, Yodo-dono never helped Ieyasu. The English translation of "Ten-no'' was changed to "Emperor,'' which caused misunderstandings. The closest word to the real name of the Ten-no is "Pope'', but there is no suitable term for it. The Ten-no has authority but no power, and as Ten-no family has continued uninterrupted since the mythical era of the 7th century B.C., it is impossible to replace him. In other words, powerful samurai were given the highest title in the samurai class, "shogun", by the Ten-no, which allowed him to rule the country in a stable manner. Hideyoshi was an upstart, and although he planned various schemes, he was not given the title of shogun, but was given the title of "Kanpaku'', the most prestigious title in the aristocratic class. "Taiko'' is a title given to someone who has resigned from Kanpaku, but since Hideyoshi became the title, it has also come to refer to Hideyoshi himself. The title of Kanpaku was inherited by his son Hideyori. Kanpaku is a higher title than shogun, but for the samurai class, if it wasn't the title of shogun, they cannot get along well with the highest authority person to them. At that time, the Ashikaga shogunate lost its ability to govern, and Hideyoshi's lord Oda Nobunaga expelled the last shogun, Ashikaga Yoshiaki, and the Ashikaga shogunate disappeared. Therefore, the path to becoming the most powerful samurai was to win the power struggle and receive this title from the Ten-no. In 1603, three years after the Battle of Sekigahara, Ieyasu became shogun and opened the Edo Shogunate, so at this point Yodo-dono and Hideyori should have given up the title of Kanpaku, completely surrendered to Ieyasu, and became his vassals. However, Yodo-dono could not give up her pride in being of Oda lineage and fought, resulting in the collaps of the Toyotomi family in 1615.
![Stromae, Pomme - “Ma Meilleure Ennemie” (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Visualizer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1F3OGIFnW1k/mqdefault.jpg)
The heir did not openly challenge Tokugawa. Instead, when Hideyori the heir sponsored the construction of Hoko-ji temple, Tokugawa read between the lines and found a word on the inscription on the bronze bell to be offensive to him. This was but a flimsy excuse to wage a war to dispose of the heir, which had long been Tokugawa’s plan. The fact is, he cannot claim and enjoy his title as Shogun as long as the heir lives and breathes. Ishida is no better and will most likely do the same if he won. From the very beginning, the heir and his mother’s fates were sealed.
However, Ishida gains the benefit of the doubt, since until he died he supported the rightful heir and was loyal
If I remember right Date Masamune advised Ieyasu that if he was not protected by him personally, his political opponents might poison his thinking. When Hideyori aged, he should've sought completely surrendering to Ieyasu anyway, he doesn't even have an official army
I mean if Ishida won he might've reduced the shogun to a figurehead but still keep him around. This happened during the Kamakura shogunate.
Oh, that's really interesting. Thanks for pointing that out!
Heir to what? Toyotomi Hideyoshi (the Taiko) held no hereditary office or title. His position was based purely on military power and personal relationships with other powerful lords and in the absence of that power it was no more substantial than a puff of dust. People paid homage to his memory mostly to put off the civil war that would otherwise have erupted when he died without an adult heir to take his place. When Tokugawa/Toronaga defeated all his potential opponents, that secured peace for the realm and no link to the late Taiko was necessary.
Crazy because I was thinking Buntaro was gonna be a traitor. Especially when it was showed it survived. I’d say he got the best character development
He’s Hiromatsu’s son, there’s no way Buntaro would’ve been a traitor
Honestly, wasted character opportunity. I get that it's a book yada yada yada, but it would've been a better twist
Nah he shouldnt have been a traitor@@Lawlzinator
@@jmgonzales7701
Yeah, he should have, because it was hinted at in every way possible. Bad writing/direction for his character (at least in the hulu show)
@@Lawlzinator🙄
This video was better than i expected ! No clickbait, to the point and kept neutral !
Liked and subbed ! Good job ! 👍
Buntaro might have been a wife beater, which I find very reprehensible, but he never struck me as capable of disloyalty to his lord.
I think during that period, Wife Beater is very common in the East and the West, Women simply don't have the same right as men. Just because A LOT of people in the town does it, the concept of it being WRONG is foreign.
I mean, in the some Middle East Country, Women are still consider a lower class citizen Legally.
wifebeating is common in most of the world even today. the middle east, russia, india, china, etc.
@@nullakjg767 It's pretty much a national sport in Ireland.
Never struck you…
@@slumdutchmillionare no pun intended 😅
Hear me out: Toranaga was the true villain of SHOGUN. Blackthorne kept begging to leave but Toranaga kept him around just to distract his own enemies. He had many of his own men commit seppuku throughout the show. He sent Mariko to her death. He tortured Akeji village, his own people. He attempted and succeeded in wresting power from the true heir to the taiko. He did many bad things just to seize power, sacrificing even those close to him. And that's exactly what villains do. Toranaga was the villain.
I think many people would agree with you!
You're a fool to think that heroes and villains actually exist. A hero is a villain and vice versa depending on the side you question. And this concept is actually alien to us in the East even today. There is only doing what is necessary and victory.
He was a bit of a Richard II, wasn't he? But if he hadn't been so Machiavellian, someone else would have, or more likely a lot of someone elses, leading to a renewal of a general civil war and prolonging the _Sengoku_ period. What never would have happened was the realm staying peacefully united under the "heir".
(Heir to what, exactly, is never specified, since the Taiko held no hereditary office. It's more or less like Octavian was Julius Caesar's heir, except that Octavian was old enough and competent enough to turn that into a commanding position in the game while the historical Toyotomi Hideyori was neither.)
This is why Machiavelli said that things that were vices in ordinary men were virtues in a prince.
that's how great leader do. don't you think? in order to have power there has to be sacrifices made, not to mention all of great leaders had some degree of narcissism. you need to convinced yourself that you are superior to others and could do great things. because you won't be able to become a great leader if you are soft. reminds me of the Korean King called as the "bloody monarch" yes, his rule was nasty, he broke the long lasting culture of the nobility only holding power. he murdered who opposed him, but at the end he did that to give way for the common folk to thrive. I mean there's always blood that need to spilt if you want to change things. and that was Toranaga did.
Yea he held a man hostage for decades, I think it's clear he isn't a good guy
Shogun show is truly the best example of how to create great villain looks good.
The laws and systems, which Toranaga crafted, would eliminate an intetnal conflict in Japan in the next 250 years.
The irony was that losers at Sekigahara , House Shimadu or House Moori eventually overthrew Toranaga's shogunate 250 years later.
The conspiracy within conspiracies. Who won''t give up will eventually win.
Family feud can run for centuries.
Shimazu and Mori.
Although the character of Kiyama Ukon (one of the Regents) was based on Konishi Yukinaga, the name of the character was based on Takayama (Dom Justo) Ukon, a daimyo who became a Catholic like Konishi.
For his support of Ishida Mitsunari, Konishi was executed two weeks after the Battle of Sekigahara.
Takayama was exiled to the Philippines in 1614 for refusing to renounce his beliefs, where he died the following year. A statue of him still stands today in one of the plazas in Manila.
The system survived at the expense of serf/slaves by the regular citizens. By blocking foreign ideas, the enlightenment of the equality of all did not thrive in shogunate Japan. It wasn’t till the West forced opening that some enlightment progress was made. Some historians hypothesize that WW2 was partly fought by Japanese nobility to halt or reverse the modernization of Japanese society
It took a benign enlightened western despot in MacArthur to bring democracy, rights of women and weakening of inherited feudal power.
The Shogun’s victory hurt the average Japanese.
Fascinating history.
0:41 It's not Japanese music. Completely Chinese music.
It's not good to confuse them.
but they look the same
🤣 It isn't good to act like you're an expert when you absolutely have ZERO idea what you're talking about. 🥴 First off China, Japan, and Korea have long history with one another, this includes music. Please tell us why you think the music is Chinese and tell us what instrument they're using. 👏😂
Watches Shogun once and now thinks he can tell between Japanese and Chinese traditional music lol
@@obryn First of all, I am Japanese and am a researcher of classical music from the Nara, Heian, Kamakura, Muromachi, and Edo periods. The difference between Japanese and Chinese traditional music is that the scale is different. This is basic. The instruments used are also different. For example, the music for Japanese Noh and Kabuki is different from the music for classical Chinese dance. Let's listen to more music. Someday you'll notice the difference in yours too.
@@gn-z1130 This isn't from those periods. It's a modern song with influences of those periods. The song is called Greeted in Osaka: ruclips.net/video/uDlUDztLspc/видео.html&ab_channel=SightofWonders-Topic
Fuji was real, she was just not as important as her book/series counterpart. Hiromatsu did indeed had a granddaughter, but she was not really involved in any of the historical events.
The FX website says Fuji is not based on a real historical figure but it makes sense that they imagined her as Hiromatsu's granddaughter
The actor playing Buntaro is very good looking and tall!
I can't get out of his Instagram page. He takes great photographs too!
Haircut in the show makes him look ugly. He is indeed a handsome dude.
Well I guess Buntaro got to move on after what happened.
Well, atleast my man Buntaro gets a happy ending!
He becomes a good bro 🗿
Fujisama best nun
My thoughts after reading the novel around Fuji is that was "her" happy ending she fulfilled her duty to her liege lord, made sure blackthorns house was in a good position by making sure he would be taken care of. Also she can finally join her husband and child in the afterlife.
1:52 syphilis being one of the few New World diseases he would have never gotten but for the Portuguese traders.
As a Portuguese, you’re welcome.
Shouldn't have shagged the portuguese traders.
Not sure if this is true but it would be a little ironic :)
That means he might have done it with some Portuguese girl
@@nont18411No, there weren't any Portuguese women in Japan during this time period. It means a Portuguese sailor picked it up in South America. Then passed it on to a Japanese hooker, who then passed it on to the Japanese man.
We need to have more tv series and this part of Japan history
Definitely!
Though Clavell never took up the character of John Blackthorne again, he is mentioned in passing in Clavell’s novel “Gai-Jin,” which takes place a couple of centuries later as Japan is being forced to re-open to the West. It’s no “Shogun,” but it has a lot in the way of that novel’s bloody sweep and colorful characters based loosely on real historical events and people, and I’d certainly be intrigued to see what the producers of the Hulu miniseries could do with it.
I think thats the way to go. I also hope they also do saipan.
Whilst I don’t recall what happened I did read the books around 1988 i remember enjoying them and would move to see more of Clavell’s books made into series. Fascinating that the Anjin is mentioned in a different book set so long after!
Some people keep asking for a season 2 of this but let’s face it without Mariko and Yabushige it just wouldn’t be the same. I also saw in interviews that it was the most expensive show in FC X history and it took 6000 special effects to make this show when on average it takes 1000-2000 special effects in an effects heavy show.
I’m sure that the audience and critics response and the hopefully many many awards this show will receive will encourage FX to keep riding the Clavell Asian historical drama train. 🤞 ❤
They need to make taipan and noble house before gaijin would make sense.
@@adamabbas1487 saipan would be good
gaijin is a very fun book, all the mad victorians doing mad victorian shit with japanese people looking on like wtf
The idea that Clavell ending for Fujiko is not a happy ending is very western. She wanted to die and follow her son and husband, she got exactly that, you couldnt ask for a happier ending.
I wanted ro know what happen to the brother of taranaga
I know it's a limited series and some shows are better off left where they ended.
But even without the source material, I'd love to see this continuation if it will be made by the same brilliant people behind the show
James clavell pratically wrote sequels. How ever all of them are from a different time and all of this characters are dead.
I just watched this last night I thank you so much for sharing I appreciate your caring about the characters in the movie and bringing them to life
Glad you liked it!
Simply magnificent presentation. So informative and I thank you!!!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Very good acting, beautifully shot in Vancouver, incredible dress what more could you want
In the Clavell novel _Noble House_, a descendent of Blackthorn with the last name of Anjin meets Ian Dunross, the protagonist of that novel.
He was japanese?
@@jmgonzales7701 She, and yes. It's only for a page or so. I think in modern parlance, we'd call it fan service.
That was not actually how Mitsunari’s side lost, but it certainly propelled various daimyo and retainers to take sides, and on to Sekigahara. The actual battle was over in a matter of hours, due to the defection of Kobayakawa Hideaki of the Western Army to Tokugawa’s Eastern Army at the last minute. That turned the tide of the battle.
Mariko-Sama being Crimson Sky was a good twist
Yodo-Dono just can't seem to catch a break ever since she was a child.
In real life Ishida was the good guy (a war hero, very loyal to the rightful heir), Toranaga was the ambitious general. The council members supported Ishida and died in battle with him including that Leprosy guy forgot his name.. was actually a samurai hero before the battle of sekigahara and commited sepuku when they were defeated by Toranaga. As the video stated the real reason why Ishida was defeated was because Yodo-dono suddenly withdrew their support but in the end they were double crossed by Toranaga.
If you ever travel to Japan, visit Nikko, in the huge temple area Tokugawa's resting place is there to be visited.
The acting in this show is soooo good that it just overshadowed alot of plot that wasn't properly build up tbh. Ochiba's sudden alliance to Toranaga makes zero sense, she was basically turned into Ishido's puppet when the showed tried mid-way to build her up as the puppet master, despite wielding considerable military might and a hatred for Toranaga for her father's death, she gave up the chance to win..by what? Being Toranaga's puppet? Isn't she disgraced by her marriage to Ishido when he loses? And if you are Ishido... why bring Toronaga's brother back to the capital when he should have placed Toranaga in confinement and under his watch, which limits his power to command his men? Annnnd.... bombing the storage room knowing Mariko was inside was dumb as hell... I'm assuming they had the place surrounded..so it's just a matter of time to break down the door... even if she wasn't standing by the door...you still run the risk of killing her with a fucking cannon.
Great show....but some of the plot element needed a bit more context i guess
the switch of Ochiba indeed made zero sense, if she would have married Ishido, her son would more easily become the next ruler, while she knew Toronaga would want to be shogun himself.
I didn't really like the acting of blackthorne, way over the top. The rest was good indeed
I guess Mariko's death impacted her decision but you're right that it could have been more properly built up
All these RANCE-SAMA ADVENTURES names omgomgomg
Living to 74 during that period is such a huge feat.
Hosokawa(Buntaro) lived till 83.
The Japanese emperor used to be a lollipop until the Meiji Restoration of 1868
post-which he became a very revered lollipop you occassionally consider. I don't think Meiji was more powerful than Kenmu.
Well done!
I honestly just wanted to see how hard buntaro was going to be in a battle scene, but im ok with it..
same lmao
That would have been soo good!
Not shown near the beginning with the rest of Clavell's books is his charming, fully illustrated children's fantasy "Thrump-o-Moto", featuring a boy Japanese wizard, that was nearly made into an animated film by Rankin-Bass ("The Last Unicorn").
I didn't know the subject of that book. Thanks for sharing!
The method of execution of Ishida Mitsunari (Ishido) is wrong. Ishida's execution is a "beheading'' that is carried out on ordinary criminals. This is because, as of 1600, Ieyasu(Toranaga) was not yet a shogun and was still in the position of a vassal of Hideyoshi, so the same vassal could not be given such a particularly heavy punishment. If he were forced to do so, he would further arouse the resentment of the people who were in Ishida's territory, and some of the feudal lords who were on his side would have sympathized with Ishida, which would have a negative impact to become shogun. To be clear, this is the punishment excuted to Sugitani Zenjuhbo, who tried to assassinate Hideyoshi's lord, Oda Nobunaga, with a gun and failed in 1573. He was buried by the side of the main road with only his head exposed. It is said that by using a deliberately dull bamboo saw, passing travelers were forced to cut his neck one by one, thereby prolonging his suffering and killing him. The idea is that the crime committed by the most powerful person at the time is the most serious, and this brutal execution is unprecedented.
I hated buntaro at first, but later on i saw him as a true samurai warrior, loyal, honorable (admit wrong, stick to the code no matter what, like apologize when made commotion at blackthorne home) faithful, loved his wife, and just felt human
Every RUclipsr Expert has a different view of how everyone died in real life, but they are all different outcomes. Even when no one do any real research.
That's why you cant take them seriously unless they are a qualified historian and is presented by a reputable channel like NHK
Was syphillis rampant in those days in Japan? How come they say Ieyasu died of possible syphillis? Did they examined his corpse or written health records to say such thing?
Yes, but it had probably come from china centuries earlier (which got it from europe or the middle east via the silk road) rather than from the portuguese.
@@chocoball604 Centuries earlier? The lethal form of syphilis that swept Europe in the late 15th century - only slightly more than one century before the show is set - didn't exist anywhere in Europe or Asia until Columbus' men brought it back from the New World.
I'm sure it was common back in the day in many parts of the world, specially for royalty and higher class. They all smashed
I really hope Usami Fuji is back. She was my favourite character.
I'm still stumped we don't get a 2nd season because that last episode set everything up
The Hosakawa (Buntaro) family were highly relevant after the 1870s ， one of his descendent was the Japanese prime minister in the 1990s ( though not of Mariko’s line) en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morihiro_Hosokawa
You didn't mention that Mariko's story in the novel was different from both the 2024 Shogun and real history. The early Shogun kept closer to the novel which highlighted the active love story between these two main characters, Anjin and Mariko.
Yeah you're right. I would love to see this two's relationship closer
You should mention that in real life Hosokawa Gracia never even met William Adams and he was nowhere near the battle or the lead up to it. Also, one of Tadaoki and Gracias's descendants was Prime Minister of Japan 30 years sgo.
Yeah I knew that, I mentioned it in another video. I felt like that information didn't blong in this video
what happens to mariko?
She dies before Ishida takes her as a hostage.
It's amazing that the Emperor, who has a higher rank than the Shogun, has continued to rule to the present day!
A higher rank than Emperor, kind of. The emperor is/was considered to have the highest level of reverence and prestige, but also not allowed to exercise any power whatsoever. So emperors just sort of… hung out while the military and/or regime leadership holds all the power.
At that time the emperor had no real power. The Shogun had all the power, cause he controlled the army.
The emperor is the religious leader and head of state. But the shogun was head of the government. Sort of like the King of england vs the Prime Minister.
Why doesn't the Shogun attack the Emperor?
@@takutubepalmsthe same reason the British army doesn’t attack the queen of England.. they are a decorative piece of their culture.
Glad my man buntaro got a good life
In my headcanon after the touching boat scene, Blackthorne convinces Fuji not to become a nun and they eventually get married and have kids like William Adams.
Wouldnt work. Because their relationship as platonic friends would work.
Her character was amazing because of her undying love and devotion to her late husband and child. Going your route just ruins all of that and greatly cheapens the love between Blackthorn and Mariko.
@@kit99bar I don't think People back then interpret "Love" the same way as Modern society though. Sex and Procreation is not the same as love.
Just imagine you can go to the Tea House and it is not consider cheating. Legally, that is still not consider cheating in Japan because it is a business transaction.
Bullcrap. I was waiting for the white guy to fuckityfuck Doggystyle buttseks the Japanese bitch.
@@jmgonzales7701 According to the book, they had sex, fuji was implied to be pregnant with Blackthorn's child. But she took her own life as she wanted with Toranaga's permission. Blackthorn marries another Japanese woman and settled in Japan and never got to England. He gave up this Dream of returning and growing old in London when He dropped Mariko's cross in lake. The ending is pretty brutal
Is there not going to be a season 2?
Buntaro had the best ending!
Why Chinese music? Do you use Mexican music for American history?
I thought I was the only who noticed that.
This is why Hiroyuki Sanada hired Japanese staff and actors for Shogun. He's had bitter experiences over the years with Hollywood's portrayals of "strange Japan ".
They mix up Japan and China so often.
mexican music is better than american music, so im in favour of it
Bro, just tell us you dont know what you're talking about. lol
why are you using Chinese music in a Shogun video ???
They all sound the same to me. LOL!
@@stonethrower6065 ah yes ignorance is bliss
淀殿がモデルとは言え落ち葉の方は架空の人物なんだから、この世界線では幸せになって欲しいな。
is there going to be a season 2 of shogun
No, I have been following all the news but no official announcement
There is no source material by James Clavell that continues the story of Toranaga and/or Blackthorne.
We all saw what happened when producers had to write material after they used up all source material with Game of Thrones, so I wouldn’t want to see that happen with Shogun.
Yea I was SUPER bummed each ep when there was no big battle BUT I still really really loved this miniseries. It was very well done.
Mmmmmm I don't think that was sort of a "dream" Blackthorne returned to England and had children/grandchildren. In the show, they didn't specify he was having a dream. I think he did manage to flee Japan and return to England where he married, had offspring and lived peacefully
Nope
Toranaga is not a mastermind and just lucky
He does get more powerful because of all the marriages he has in his family but the council gets behind this. At the same time they confront him Ochiba is in his castle because a relative of hers is given birth. That is nothing you can really plan that is just luck in timing.
When he tries to flee that plan only works because of the Anjin. Again luck,
Later, he decides to attack Osaka but his army gets nearly destroyed, so he needs the army of his brother. Remember that for later.
Oh, btw his whole army got surrounded by the army of his brother but then they somehow left?
At this point he is done but he does get a second chance because his son is so dumb and kills himself. lol. Now, he can be sad for 40 days but he also makes his best friend kill himself to appear as a broken man but this never really has any effect anyway.
He sends Mariko to the castle to split Ochiba and Ishido but the thing is Oshiba and Mariko have not seen eachother in years so that might not even work. Agian luck.
Mariko also dies only because Ishido wants her captured but I am not even sure why? Like, even if others decide to leave too the four armys of the council with the banner of the heir are the legit force. Everyone else would therefore betray them. Not sure if all these family members leaving would even cause an issue and I also never saw a real reason to take them hostage in the first place.
Now, because of that Oshiba will betray Ishido but Oshiba also wants to kill Toranaga and sees him as a threat. So, now she chooses to somehow revenge Mariko instead of protecting herself and her son. Btw, it seems Mariko would have never done the same thing.
Even without the heir you would have the army of the council against Toranaga and I do not see him win that battle or why everyone should abandon Toranaga. They all want him death at the end. This gets even more weird considering that Toranaga lost quit a big portion of his army and needed his brother’s support.
When killing Yabushige he also mentioned he could attackign Osaka directly would have failed but that was his plan a few episodes before^^
When it comes to Toranagas plan the show is a total mess
2) What is John even doing in this story? Since he gets so much screentime you would expect him to have some sort of value but besides helping Toranaga escape and also that was luck he didn't really do much.
Verdict:
Each episode is good for itself but as a story it is just straight up disappointing. Maybe there will be a season two John will play a bigger role but the whole operation of Toranaga is luck.
Then you clearly don't know wtf you're talking about and know nothing about the history.
@@zeroskaterz92 broi I am talking about the show not history.
The show might be based on history but the portrayal of it is not 1:1 as you should know if you know history so well^^
Wow you are actually right. It was pretty much luck
You don't think Toranaga had too many "lucks" ?
@@zeroskaterz92 look who has been silent for weeks. easy clap
家康が梅毒で亡くなったって文献、どこのだろう？
I totally forgot that Chacha was actually their.. kinda sad
Later she do the same thing that her father,uncle,step father and her mon did that burn the castle and suicide
Yo Mariko sama da 💣 feel me
you all know this is a re write and retelling of a work of fiction that you are discussing as if it was historical fact...?
What happens to Toranagas half brother?
He died during the Sekigahara battle. But History did not record which side he fought on. But I can see him Turning against Ishido when he saw the writing on the wall.
@@steak5599 - lil itch !! Him and Yabu! 😜
woow lives up 80 years with 4 concubines
Fun fact!
The hosokawa clan started the sengoku jidai. The onin war, I think its called
Did they survive even after tokigawa
@@jmgonzales7701 well they were pretty loyal to the Tokugawa, so probably
Compliments to the writer of this clip. It’s so refreshing to hear the phrase “equally [adj]” instead of the irritating American tautology ‘equally as [adj.].
😂
Although this drama is partially based on historical fact, people should realize that it is a typical fantasy written by an Anglo-Saxon author and is completely different from historical fact.
The novel was often criticized by historians in Japan for emphasizing exoticism, excessively depicting seppuku, and portraying women in an excessively sexual manner.
The efforts of Mr. Sanada and other Japanese staff members to achieve a decent level of detail is worthy of praise.
However, the script remained fundamentally obsessed with the strange old Japan.
You really should have added that the author was a Japanese POW. He wrote the book King Rat based on his experiences which was made into a movie. He was not just some Anglo-Saxon author, but wrote numerous scripts for award winning movies, other best selling books about Japan and China and even directed an award winning movie.
@@michaelmoran3946
I think winning an award and being considerate towards culture are two different things.
Oh so the man I thought was a good one ended up being a full rat? oh hell nah
Yes, you rooted for the "bad guy".
Who?
@@jmgonzales7701 Toranaga.
:)
Well in the end Buntarro was the real winner, hehe lul.
I'm still hoping for a sequel that concentrates on the hijinx that ensue from the Edo church being next door to the courtesans.
It was extremely anticlimactic!
People keep praising this show, but I think it ended like garbage. The fact people need to come to RUclips to find closure to the story proves my point. The character building was good, then they tare it all down for a stale ending that has no action or feeling of accomplishment. It should have just been a movie.
N that’s the point “why do the ignorant who never fought in battle wants to go more than a person who have”. Respectfully you’re the ignorant. The point of the show was never war it was making war seem possible in order to manipulate the enemy. Obviously the strategy worked for real life shogun to reign for 200 years
Shogun could have benefitted from a 13-episode season, too many segments of the book were condensed or omitted completely.
I'm guessing the production costs were too much :(
The only think I didn’t like is toronaga saying the anjin wasn’t important and just made him laugh
remember the eight fences? What you say in public is not what you think. That is so special about the Toranaga - Yabushige talk. Both talking with their "heart", since one slash later, the "heart" will be secret again.
U have to know how toranaga thinks. Even when he says everything to yabu he doesnt say it all. For him blackthorne is a wild card and lucky charm. He got saved by blackthorne twice, he is more important than he lets out. He just doesnt say it.
I don't think ANYONE is important to Toranaga.
What he was saying is Anjin is not important to his Grand Plan, because the result would have been the same regardless.
But if he truly think Anjin is not important, he wouldn't stopped him some Commiting Sepakku and forbid him from leaving Japan.
He also need the Anjin later because he don't trust the Portugese, is good to have someone with outside information and might keep the Portugese in check.
@@steak5599 if he wasn’t important how did he plan leaving Osaka without the black ship anjin idea and how he made the soldiers don’t check the boxes plus anjin very presence was the one thing that kept him alive
How are you this dense? The point is to not believe everything he said at face value.
Not showing the battle was a severe disappointment. Kind of ruined the whole thing.
this Shogun series was a dissapointment, wasted potential
Lady Ochiba and her son committed seppuku.
Yes, that's what I said in the video :)
@@thenextseason 様(sama)
Please make no mistake. Women cannot commit seppuku. It's jigai(suicide).
Why? Lady Ochiba helped Toranaga and her son was supposed to be Emperor?
@@quantumeyes8546 様(sama)
The original novel differs greatly from the historical facts. I don't know the original author's plan, so I don't know why Lady Ochiba helped Toranaga. In historical fact, after Hideyoshi's death, the feudal lords who were his vassals split into two groups, the legal wife faction and the birth mother faction, and there was a fierce conflict between them. Yodo-dono(Yodo-gimi), who is the model for Lady Ochiba, is Hideyori's birth mother, but she is also a concubine, and originally Hideyoshi's legal wife, Nene(O-ne/ Kita-no-mandokoro), is of a higher status, but when his successor, Hideyori, was born, she became actually a same status. The Battle of Sekigahara (1600) was fought between these two factions. The legal wife faction rallied around East Japan's Ieyasu(Toranaga) as its leader, but since Ishida (Ishido) of the birth mother faction had a low rank, he appointed Mori Terumoto, the highest rank in western Japan, as the commander-in-chief. He went behind the scenes and tried to gather his army together. However, due to various maneuvers on Ieyasu's side, they lacked unity and were defeated. If Yodo-dono made it clear that she was supporting Ishida, she would be in a very disadvantageous position, and Ieyasu also wanted to maintain his advantage in the future, so they decided to end the battle by calling it a fight between vassals of the Toyotomi family. Therefore, in reality, Yodo-dono never helped Ieyasu.
The English translation of "Ten-no'' was changed to "Emperor,'' which caused misunderstandings. The closest word to the real name of the Ten-no is "Pope'', but there is no suitable term for it. The Ten-no has authority but no power, and as Ten-no family has continued uninterrupted since the mythical era of the 7th century B.C., it is impossible to replace him. In other words, powerful samurai were given the highest title in the samurai class, "shogun", by the Ten-no, which allowed him to rule the country in a stable manner. Hideyoshi was an upstart, and although he planned various schemes, he was not given the title of shogun, but was given the title of "Kanpaku'', the most prestigious title in the aristocratic class. "Taiko'' is a title given to someone who has resigned from Kanpaku, but since Hideyoshi became the title, it has also come to refer to Hideyoshi himself. The title of Kanpaku was inherited by his son Hideyori. Kanpaku is a higher title than shogun, but for the samurai class, if it wasn't the title of shogun, they cannot get along well with the highest authority person to them.
At that time, the Ashikaga shogunate lost its ability to govern, and Hideyoshi's lord Oda Nobunaga expelled the last shogun, Ashikaga Yoshiaki, and the Ashikaga shogunate disappeared. Therefore, the path to becoming the most powerful samurai was to win the power struggle and receive this title from the Ten-no. In 1603, three years after the Battle of Sekigahara, Ieyasu became shogun and opened the Edo Shogunate, so at this point Yodo-dono and Hideyori should have given up the title of Kanpaku, completely surrendered to Ieyasu, and became his vassals. However, Yodo-dono could not give up her pride in being of Oda lineage and fought, resulting in the collaps of the Toyotomi family in 1615.