EPIC Best near fail cold start Detroit Diesel smoke show MCI MC9 bus
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- Опубликовано: 16 окт 2024
- *READ This is the first video with my new Samsung F40 Camcorder. My batteries are almost 4 years old, they are tired and my fuel is exceptionally old as well. I haven't added diesel in over 2 years now. I finally had to put some jumper cables on it. I think an 8V71 starts better. It was 26 F during the night during the vid it had warmed up a lil to around 50F. Keep in mind all the fluids/hidden metal are 30-40 F. I have another cold start vid from last year. This year, I had to grab my car to jump the bus off after the first attempt failed. I assume engine rotation speed by the starter affects start up. Even with additives, the diesel is just old. I put 67 gallons in I believe two years ago which filled it to the top, there's about 179 gallons, 95% usable I believe.
Oh, I hate to hear someone rev up a diesel so soon after starting, especially when it has sat for so long without being run.
exactly, it clearly abusing the engine, alot of people dont understand that, its very important to let it warm up for a long time during extreme cold weather. people should NEVER EVER rev a cold engine. otherwise they gonna quickly destroy the piston,piston ring(s).
Congrats! I knew it was getting ready to start, when I saw the white smoke of unburned fuel. You did the right thing to crank and rest, crank and rest, to take advantage of whatever heat you were able to generate, but I would have given it squirt of "incentive" after the second failed attempt...but I've never been known to wait around! Speaking of waiting...your fuel obviously still burns, unlike the stuff we call gasoline these days. I believe I would go ahead and change the primary fuel filter though. When I bought my first bus to convert, we made it home, from Minnesota in December..about 800 miles in the dead of winter. But, when I went to service the beast I was amazed to find the primary fuel filter pretty well clogged with "jelly". BUT, through no fault of my own, it started pretty darn easy. It was an 8V53 Detroit.
Man, I want to own an entire bus! I wish I could be that cool!
One day you might. It's fun and I wish you luck. Word hard and save.
Party bus
Lord Sandwich agreed. I hope some day to make an RV out of a bus.
+Lord Sandwich they're big and require alot of space
+David Brailsford thats a cute profile pic :3
I love the video
I used to be Detroit certified, after a job change 3 years back I no longer have my DD G2, but I'm currently Cat, Cummins and Paccar certified. I thought I might state my credentials before making the following comments:
1) DD's can certainly start cold, but the throttle lever limited gov. travel, so no throttle = no revs
2) No DD in the heavy duty on highway class has been built with glow plugs.
3) EGR was introduced for the EPA '04 compliant engines. It would not effect a 1981 engine.
I had a Wanderlodge RV (Steel Bus) with a DD Series 60. Big diesels do NOT like to start when they're really cold. Of course, engine condition plays a role -- but the _careful_ use of ether (starting fluid -- not too much) will get one going pretty quickly. Old diesel (in the tank) isn't as bad as old gasoline ... but there can be some degradation to the fuel over time. It's necessary to ensure that the tank is full during storage/non use to avoid a build up of water from condensation in the tank. The water will drop to the bottom of the tank -- my fuel tank had a special low spot for water to collect, and a petcock that allowed the water or otherwise "bad" fuel to be drained. The biggest danger is for algae to form in the fuel, it can quickly clog a fuel filter (there are 'anti algae' additives). Good luck with your bus.
Sounds nice and looks smoke free once it gets started!
That ol girl is just like the city of Detroit itself, all worn out and wont start or run.
She did start & run.
That rev is pretty epic!! Sadly they replaced most of those engines with Detroit series 50s on most of these 1980s coach buses. But glad you kept that one!!
Starting fluid does not cause the engine to become reliant on it for starting. It can cause internal wear and even destruction if not properly used. By personal experience, I have noticed that most people do not understand how to administer it into the intake. Ether should be sprayed only when the engine is being cranked over. If it is sprayed into the intake when the engine is not cranking, the ether will enter the first cylinder and cause an explosion only in that cylinder causing a bent rod.
Robert, very interesting explanation. Another mechanic told me that ether can damage the 'fire rings' (topmost rings?) which would basically reduce the compression and increase blowby. Any thoughts on this? This was on a DD 6v92.
cannot stop enjoying this old bus singing out the real song floor a Detroit!
Someone should show this guy what starter fluid for diesel looks like and where to spray it in the engine. I could have had that started in about two minutes. Did many, many years of ski trips in the mountains of Colorado, and would make sure I always had starter fluid with me. It never let me down!
Must have run buses you didnt own, or you would have known what that ether did to them motors.
Duckyistrippin you do understand that proper use of ether causes no damage in a direct injection diesel. the only diesel engines that you should never use ether on are IDI and those equipped with an inlet air heater. Theres a reason Cummins equips their generator units with an automatic ether injection system, and its not cause it damages the engine.
WD-40 into the breather and crank. It's a lifesaver!
Dagon Naxos 🤣🤣🤣
Shister
@@thegeneral3094 What is a "shister?" Is that a portmanteau of "she" and "sister?"
Starting fluid is not good for the engine. It causes the engine to become reliant on it and causes rapid internal wear. One trick I discovered, simply giving the engine a small amount of throttle when starting cold, the engine fires up quickly.
Nice ! Hey it's obvious you are into this sort of thing. I liked the closeups of the smoke drifting out of the pipe after it didn't start. I once watched a cold start of a similar age bus. It was struggling to fire off the cold diesel oil, just not quite fully able to run with the starter still engaged and helping, making a beautiful sweet smelling thick white raw diesel cloud and a big puddle of almost raw oil on the ground dripping out of the exhaust. Sooo Hot !!
Need this guy in the summer to help fog for mosquitos!!
Those poor batteries.
No think of the starter
I agree 👍🏾
I think it is fascinating that you own your own bus!
No where did I rev it while it was cold, just raised the RPM's to keep in from stalling. Watch the vid it tells you it was warmed up before I started revving it. I put that there to keep the trolls at bay.
Love it! Keep faith in old diesel engines.
two strokes normally will start easier than a 4 stroke in the cold.
To me it looked like the engine had lots of miles on it and not good compression.
That would make it very hard to start and it was not that cold out.
Even with old fuel it should start, but a bit of quick start would have saved time.
This engine according to the hour meter has around 3,000 hours on it. Previous owners used 15W40 before I got it. The biggest thing was the weak batteries. Later I learned using the throttle helps start it. How? I hope someone can explain and give an answer. I wont venture to guess on this one.
studpuppy69 I can say that I worked at the CNR and worked lots or most of my time around Diesel motors I drove truck, Tractor trailer and heavy Equipment.
The best way to start a diesel is at idle and they will start. the worst thing that you can do is hammer the throttle down let is warm up first or you can cause lots of damage, and trust me I have seen this done personally from a mechanic that had not a clue what he was doing. When diesel engines get a lot of hours they lose their compression and that is why they start so hard and that is why you will hear it fire on a couple cylinders and then others will kick in. It takes compression and heat to fire up a diesel engine. Hope this helps you.
This bus realy needs an overhall, new rings for its pistons, new standards pistons, new air filter, new inyectors.
*****
While I too feel it is bad to floor a vehicle when starting, that is what a lot of manufacturers recommend, and on Detroits, the fuel rack is all the way open when starting whether you like it or not.
Miguel Ángel Valderrama Sorry mate, but how can you make that diagnosis based on a video? Without hard evidence (Like a compression test) you just can't tell the condition of the moving parts of the engine ;) Me, being an educated and fairly experienced diesel mechanic myself, can't tell the condition based on the video either ;) Thing is, it's a diesel.. And they don't like the cold too much
A little bit of ether would've had her on the go QUICK!
Mechanical parts do not become reliant on starter fluids but for sure it can destroy diesel engines because of the pre-ignition effect of the fluid wich is very easy to ignite.
those fluids are for gas engines with half of compression ratio.
Great, this is one of the best coldstart videos I've seen.
I like this smoke
I like to inhale the smoke 👍😋
@Jobergg Glad you liked it. When its 60F it has no issue starting. There are many variables to starting, another thing this bus uses straight SAE 40 either Rotella or Delo. I probably haven't driven more than 500 miles on the oil, its been in there 3.5 years but it should probably be changed soon. The bus is currently parked and un-registered.
Correct. It even states it was warmed up. Of course, you have to raise the throttle to keep from stalling and it keeps the oil pressure up.
Nothing rides better than a MCI bus.
I’m not knocking the 6V92 but I preferred the 8V71.
Cranking speed was fine during the first four minutes or so, just to dang cold. A trick I used with GM two strokes was to crank them while holding the fuel rack closed, this stops them drowning on their own fuel. Then while cranking slowly allow the rack to come in, giving it just enough fuel to light without 'flooding'. That way you get some heat from combustion to help. BTW, ether cold start aids were a factory fit option on these things -).
People don't understand the dangerous chemicals involved in getting rid of those batteries. Things just mysteriously disappear into a portal of magic and green happiness.
Best diesel cold start ever.
Thumbs up
DD 71s LOVE a little heat. Block heaters, even when it's not that cold out. Where I live, it will hit 40 F at night. I try to start my 8v71 once a week. No block heater and the motor will crank for a few seconds before it fires. Plug in a block heater over night and it's roaring to life before my finger tip even leaves the starter button! One quick touch, with a little heat.
The only problem I seem to have with Cat engines (newer) is regaining fuel after losing prime (filter change, etc.,). We plug all the block heaters in on the Cats, and as long as the batteries are good, they seem to not mind temps. This is in quarry work.
@studpuppy69 Damn, SAE 40 is real thick oil, can you use that oil durig winter or do you need to change to 15W40 etc?
You speak about old fuel in your description and how it affects the starting.
Did you try yet with fresh fuel ?
i have a diesel with 3 years old fuel at least and it's not very good at starting....
it's supposed to last around 9 months or so.
batteries are knackered for a start!
i have to say your the first one ive seen that didnt dump a whole can of starting fluid in the intake for a cold start or as soon as it cranked reviving it wide ass open those old detroits are very tempermental im gonna say good job regardless of the trolls that scream egr and glow plugs there are alot of people that need an education on the start up and operation of a diesel engine and before you trolls ask why i know so much 27+ yr exp/cert auto/lt truck and heavy diesel tech good job !!!
It varies on the condition of the engine and if it has prime for the two strokes. Applying throttle on the 6V92T helps during starting. The 8v71 seems to fire in the first rotation in a split second. The Series 60 stumbles a little when cold but starts fine. Not sure what Detroits you work on? The L10, M11 and NTC seem to have trouble firing when cold or losing prime. Also, MUI 2 stroke vs. DDEC 2 strokes effects it too. DDEC starts easier I believe.
Starting fluid is your best friend!
Memories light the corners of my mind.........
SWEET ! .
I love these old Two-Smoke Detroit ' Road Oilers '.
City of Los Angeles still has quite a few here and there (City Hall,Piper Tech,L.A.P.D. Etc.) in service as backup generators , listening to them go down the open road at full chat is wonderful , don't hear that anymore though =8-( .
-Nate
I carried 5 gallons of #30 oil with at all times. Before the rebuild the black smoke really rolled and oil leaked from every possible connection. After the rebuild the first leak took a year to show up. Also went from an A block to The B block for better water cooling. Had to also replace the cracked heads and worn cams, crank, and blower.
So, you still have it and it's running well ? .
-Nate
No. I had to sell it. Couldn't afford to keep it at that time.
agreed, particularly if they are smoking like this they are close to running. Little sniff of ether does it right away, no harm to the engine
Great start! Agree that the 8v 71 starts better. (if batteries are good) otherwise it's no different. And they sound better. Great vid though. Keep it up!
Oh by, I thought my ol girl started hard in the cold. One trick I learned was to hold the fuel shutoff lever down while cranking for 10 seconds. This warms the cylinders without dumping fuel, I find it kicks over better then. Of course even 30-60 minutes of block heater time works well too. Never either though, unless you like like an engine turning backwards on you or worse.
Victory at last. I always find myself smiling whenever I hear a DD 2 stroke start and run. It gives you a little holiday during your working day.
Thanks, there will be more videos coming hope fully in the next few months. There will be an MC8 with an 8V71 in the show.
Would certainly pay off to check the injectors. If they don't produce a fine mist then it will be harder for the engine to start.
And it's great that you got her going again
I remember this video from when I was young.
Detroit diesel does offer an ether start kit, or just a slight whiff of ether into the air intake, half second shot or less. Even the slightest amount makes a big difference and a huge amount can do damage, sparingly is key
This is possibly an old Greyhound. So which means it has alot of Miles on it...So its Compression is a little lower... So it will Start Hard in Cold Weather..A little Ether in the Intake will help or Someway of Warming the Engine before you completely Burn up the Starter or the Batteries Trying to Start it.
He jumped it with a car, no way it was an old greyhound. Greyhound used a 24 volt electrical system until 2012 when they stopped buying specialty spec busses.
Do you still have this bus? If so can you get a longer clip of the AC coolers running
Hello studpuppy do you still have your 9?
these engines have no glow plugs to pre-heat. but a webasto parking heater in water system to pre-heat the coolant would be a great help, would warm engine coolant and oil, give some heat to help start compression fire of diesel start. if used in cold weather often just a thought.
The batteries are low, now they are completely shot. Do you think there is something wrong with the injectors? It's lost a little power on the top end. I could run 80 MPH at one point, now I'm lucky to run 75 MPH. I'm sure it needs some adjustment.
love watching this.
see all that white smoke ???
Its called WATER!
oil smoke is blue you fucking idiot. white smoke is water vaporising or completely unburnt diesel. now who needs to shut up ??
Casey Cappoen dumb ass alert
Hey thanks for posting if you look around on the intake system you will find a ball cup a brass cup with a piercing needle inside and a spring hinge top i takes either balls a small shot of starting fluid, It will do no more harm to the engine than your cold revs did, My best advice plug her in 2 hours prior and no problems cold starts are death on deitroits. If your in the midwest and need service ask for matt at interstate service Altoona Iowa. Again thanks for posting.
Well old and cold fuel is a problem for sure. Those Detroit ( GM ) diesels will start easier with a couple of shots of ether/starting fluid, but don't use too much, Better if you had a buddy there to give it a couple of short shots of fluid. These are basically simple 2-stroke diesel engines, but you mentioned that this is an old dog,...it would be nice if you could rebuild this with cylinder kits and restore the compression. But then again, you'd be pouring money into something that may, or may not, be worth the expense.
Those Detroits are pain to start..Talk about good engines though. My Uncle had a Long nose Pete that had a 12V71 in it... Talk about a screamin truck
Same works for the NA 6.5(I think)liter GM V8 diesels in Humvees. I get one that doesn't want to start right away, give it some throttle and it fires up instantly.
Just low batteries, not a worn out diesel.
Classic sound!!
Old Detroit Diesel engines have no cold start aid. No glow plugs, grid heaters, or flame heaters, no ether injection. It's all starter and batteries. You gotta crank the engine long enough for the cylinders to warm up. Some came with electric water heaters that heated and circulated the coolent. That was mostly an after market add on. My motor home has a 6V92 DECC and has an add on coolent/hot water heater. The starter and batteries are huge. It's 16 F outside right now and the electric water heater system is not plugged in. I just went out and started it. Took about 7 min straight cranking.
My 1961 4106 coach with an 8v71 had a cup for a pellet of ether. Since I could not find those I used a short squirt of starting fluid. Worked great. Started almost before I could let go of the start switch. Use too much and you harm the engine.
I just Love this video I own a bus my self lol love a good cold start video.
DETROITS HATE STARTING IN THE COLD WITHOUT BEING PLUGGED IN LOL
12 Volts on a bus? I am used to 24V for everything that size
24 Volts is illegal for Road Vehicles in many States .
As mentioned , all he had to do was give it a little throttle , it lit right off the first try and then flooded .
Most don't realize it's not hard to flood a Diesel Engine .
-Nate
Because they don't like 24 volt lighting systems .
Sounds like B.S. I know but it is what it is .
Many older Military vehicles came with 24 volt systems and had to be converted before getting road tags when sold as surplus .
-Nate
My 61 4106 had 12v from 2 8D batteries. Newer coaches had 24 volt with all 24v lights.
1981'mci Detroit bus...this one reminds me Flesh&Bone movie ..the bus station scene while Meg Ryan had rather smoking on bench for having a ride to Marfa TX specially at 7:00 I've throwback to scene when I heard this engine sound
here in Maine when it gets 30 below zero we have to use ether because alot of diesels wont start so when your 100 miles in the woods a can hours away from any towns a can of ether comes in handy the only time i seen ether hurt a engine is when some one put a whole can in it and blew it up. a little sniff wont hurt it.
I'm not complaining. The cranking speed was low when you first started and I only meant that it got slower and slower so that by the 3rd attempt it was way too slow to fire up. Also, If you cranked until you saw smoke and let it rest for a couple of minutes then you would have heated the cylinders faster and got it going sooner.
It sounded nice when it finally fired. How many revs did you put on for the warmup? It sounded like it was about 900.
@Jobergg @Jobergg SAE 40 year round it's what Detroit Diesel calls for. 15W40 gets blown out their exhaust badly and causes oil consumption issues and it wears the engine down. Apparently the clearances are tight or something because the 15W40 just shears apart. You can buy SAE 40 at Detroit Diesel and certain NAPA stores carry it or can be special ordered. SAE 30 has similar results to 15W40 supposedly.
these things must be clapped out. my 8v starts like a dream.
My bad. Let's agree we both live in tough weather counties. Keep you feet warm and so long
Awesome sound man!
Mr.Grayhouse really got someone on this auction item
if it has glow plugs then don't use ether (starting Fluid) the hot plugs will cause predetonation which may damage the engine. But if it does not have glow plugs then you can give it a squirt it beats burning up you starter and killing you batteries.
I do. Read the description, I don't need a rebuild. I learned after applying a little throttle it starts right up when cold.
Don't need glow plugs on large bore diesel engines. The air keeps its heat longer when the cold cylinder wall is farther away.
16 litre v8's start reliably in -30C.
don't know anything about diesels but is the smoke thats almost 'seeping out of hte exhaust at the start just residual or is there a reason behind it
the diesel gets all gloopy and solid like goo
Go to 6:17 to see the definitive startup!
block heaters do wonders. so does a small shot of starting fluid, that white smoke indicates that the diesel fuel vapor is NOT burning. its running down the cylinder walls and washing bearings causing way more wear.. Should smell like one of those model trains you had as a kid.
Starting fluid only causes premature wear and engine dependency if it is used as a crutch for lack of fuel at start or other engine problems. That old iron slug would appreciate a small shot, and the starter would too.
does this bus happen to be in denver nc?
its probly just a simple problem with either the compression or bad glow plug designs, motors do like to be hot hehe what you think?
Is that engine the same used in the M113 APC ?? It sounds like the APC one... and has the same colour!!!
Fuel will gradually degrade over time, but also diesel for warmer months still in tank doesn't ignite as easily as winter fuel anyway, & that's all the 'smoke' is, unburnt diesel.
Doesn't sound like all cyls are firing? Like my cheap 4cyl TD 4WD when I bought it, & turned out to be a broken inlet-rocker, but still hard to start as mostly summer-diesel in almost full tank. Injectors waxed-up last week so poured hot water over motor & she started straight-away. so keep in mind for next time!
This is a 6v92.
Ether is used on older diesels like the Detroit Diesel two strokes. They don't have glow plugs to pre-ignite the ether and kill your engine like the new diesels.
Those were fully charged batteries. Weren't the glow plugs working or did they even have them back then? At least you didn't start it with ether! Sounds like an NA 8V71.
should have tried to plug up the block heater if it has one but a shot of starting fluid would make her start I do not recommend starting fluid but it does work.
Should use diesel Kleen wit cetane boost and diesel slick
How much did motor coach industries cost to purchase? I ask because I would like to purchase one.
@sledheadchris Thanks, I've added annotations and a description. I've started before in cold weather the batteries make all the difference it starts first try. The starter just can't spin fast enough. I suspect the old diesel doesn't help, I've put additives in it but it can only do so much.
Do you have cat diesel? If so i would like to see a cold start.
I think you'd probably benefit from a block heater. A big one.
Diesel, unlike gas, doesn’t go bad by just sitting. It can however have algae grow in it.
why idle so hard?
what means this white smoke from the engine when it not runing?
Time to get a new set of Deka industrial batteries for it,these are the toughest highest amp output batteries you can get in the lead-acid type.