Your the best Donny , thanks for taking the route that most of us are nervous to take and really helping us understand what we need and don’t need and what’s realistic with the process ! Much love brother !
I randomly found this video, but upgrading your camshaft is an absolute must, the more power and bigger hits to your Pistons are going to bring out more movement and power from the engine
I have a 2012 charger in the same 11-14 years as yours. Do our charger years need more work to support mods other than 2015+ models? Our transmission is a bit outdated but I wonder if it can really handle modded power
@silentagony1019 do u have an answer for this I know this comment is old if not I'll let you know in the coming weeks I have a 220/230 cam shaft on way 2014 challenger.
Just went back and watched again. A great video that I really suggest anyone to watch before any modifications. Back in 2015, when I bought my first Sublime Green RT, I kept it stock for awhile. I think we started doing the same cam at the same time with many of the same issues. After that, I regretted getting that car cammed. At least until I found a reputable tuner, and even then, this was my daily. All that jerking and surging and then sometimes dying at lights was horrible. I recommend that if you want to skip your manufacturer warranty, stick with either just tune stock and enjoy it or long tubes and tune. At least until the finances, resources, and good tuners are aligned.
I remember going thru those tuning pains together. Took me a long time to get sorted out, and I really don't blame you because some of the issues were unbearable in hindsight
@@DonnySRT I have Kooks long tube headers and a 93 tune on my R/T , was thinking of putting a 392 cam in it. Not looking for chop just a little more whp
Well said Donny, appreciate your honesty! You were having a bitch of a time with tuners when you first got the cam in, that had to be frustrating. Finding a tuner who can properly tune your car after a major mod like a cam or supercharger is so important! And you're 100% right about realistic performance expectations of a cam upgrade. My results are the same as what you're seeing, I can beat stock 392s but it's still a drivers race and it's pretty even. Cheers man!
I agree don’t go n/a route if u wanna beat everyone go blower but if u wanna upset some people and sound good while ur chopping n/a is the way to go but honestly a blower and some other goodies this lil r/t be about 700whp see y’all there u heard it here 1st
When I did my cam on my car (same hrt stage 2 cam) I was worried about the tuning situation on it and was pleasantly surprised when a local guy here in Phoenix Az tuned it in less than an hour and it drives basically like stock, only spent like 3.3k on the project including the tune and can definitely say it was worth it
I’m from AZ, I’m saving up for the Same cam kit (HRT st2) for my 07 dodge magnum rt non-vvt . I’m looking for a good Hemi tuner, where did you take yours and is there really a surging issue. Also is the shopping aggressive or mild.
@@karib9891 pinky tuned look him up on insta, I get basically no surging driving it, I’ve only experienced a small surge when going from drive to reverse occasionally but definitely not bad, chop is pretty good that’s why I love this cam, definitely recommend him if your local to az
Great video brother and agree with all your points. I’ve been there. Trying to bust 392s and until I went boosted you just cant do it. A FBO 5.7 with a cam can keep up and makes it a drivers race. Make a mistake and your done off the line. Keep ot up brother!
See, I appreciate hearing this from someone else who has been down a similar path as myself. People are convinced than simple bolt-ons will have them dragging 392s. It takes more than that...
@@DonnySRT hey bro i have a question you think i can get near 400 hp to the wheels with all the bolt ons you had but including the e85 i live in minnesota so its cold
Build it yourself = more satisfaction, save on labor, learn how the vehicle responds to your touch, etc! Hey; who put your cam in? Hey; I did it in 4 hours minus the tune! Good video! Not saying you’ll bang one out or I did in four hours but you get my point!
Thanks for the video. This has definitely helped me make up my mind on if I want to eventually upgrade the cam on my Challenger R/T . I was thinking about it later on down the line to go with the bolt ons I already have
My Charger is a 2016 police pursuit Hemi awd car so it has the cop brake package and suspension. I did bbk shorty headers and put the cat mud pipes back on and bought a 3” stainless exhaust that has a huge x pipe compared to the factory one. The pipes have small glass packs on each tail pipe. It sounds deep and growls no crackle popping from it. My Iroc was a tuned port car with a 5.0 mated to a 5 speed manual. I sold it to my buddies uncle 13 years ago and he put a 350 short block in it with the 305 heads and TPI system. It has a beefy cam in it supposedly I have no idea what pistons he used to e car needs some work like performance chip for the pcm, it was running to high coolant temps so I gotta figure out what’s going on there. He kind of gave up on it and it’s been sitting for almost the entire 13 years he had it. He just passed away a month ago and the family asked if I wanted to buy it. I’m gonna guess it needs a 180 degree thermostat and I need to make sure the electric fans are kicking on. I’m pretty excited to get it back and figure it out.
I kind of want to go the cammed + fbo route with my R/T instead of buying a scat pack since I’ll have my car for awhile tbh. Thanks for the info Donny!
@@DonnySRT At this current moment in time, I really want to build my car instead of buying a scat pack since to me it feels like everyone has one these days and I really love the 11-14 charger Bodystyle. I still plan on owning my old 2011 R/T for a few more years until I can jump up to a hellcat.
You described what happened to me perfect. I had an rt had an order in for an intake manifold and was working my way towards the cam and a good deal came up for a 392. Canceled the order for the intake and used it for part of a down payment
Before i threw my cam in, i was ahead of scats by a fender(AWD,FBO) i went with the HRT stage 2 cam. Was going to add the 392 intake but im gonna sell it and the intake i bought for it and put it towards a performance trans. The HRT Cam was 500 Full lifters(4 sets) 120 ea. Mopar performance valve springs( 16@4.46 ea) Upper gasket kit(86) New oil pump(157) Comp cams pushrods(220) Labor 2100 Tune 650 About 4300 total. Im expecting 402 whp. Which is why i wanted to throw on the 392 and not wire it in, and drag it down to 387. Idk how the 8 speed are, but the Nag1 took to the 3200 stall converter perfectly. Drove like factory until you pancaked the pedal. Dropped a second on my 0-60 from that alone.
@@murdered300c not intentionally, last time i tested it(PFP-basically stock) i was on the side of the road in the rain and just mashed it. Haven't gotten the car back. Apparently my PCM has given up on life and my cooling fan will NOT come on. Went and ran it myself, no fan. Did gurgle after i shut it off though 🙃
Thanks for the info. Been thinking about camming my R/T Durango, but it’s my daily driver. I don’t want all of the headaches that you explained plus the extra thousands of dollars it will take.
If you get the FTI 9” 3600 rpm stall you’re going to really optimize your gains with that cam. Then you’re going to have to go back to the tuner for the stall lock ups.
Mmx is doing mine on my scat pack paid 6k for longtube headers,Max effort cam kit with mds delete, dyno tune and installation. Still waiting to get it back.
I’m in the process of modding a hemi, I’m doing cam,ghetto porting, torque converter, valve body and swapping it into a ford, I’m expecting around 500hp on 91
Perhaps it would have been helpful to take into account how there are mild camshafts and aggressive camshafts? Milder ones when properly tuned should be fine for daily driving. While a stage-2 may be relatively aggressive aimed at occasional street/weekend racing. Then there are stage 3 cams with serious street/track racing intent.
You really need the stall man. I’ve been thinking of getting the chop monster cam for mine and a FTI 9” stall. But I’m no where near a dyno tuner. I’m wondering if I can use the HP tuners route but I don’t know. I’m also on the fence now with doing anything with my Charger because I’m getting my 88 IROC Z28 back and it has a mild built 350 in it now so I may be focusing on that more and just leave the Charger alone.
My 2014 Charger R/T is misfiring and I suspect it’s because of the lifters. So I’m likely changing all of those out as well as Rods and maybe springs, would it be worth it to put in a 392 cam while the mechanic is in there? It’s a daily driver and I don’t wanna drop more than 5k, but I don’t wanna waste my opportunity while the engine is opened up
At the end of the day, the difference is the cost of the cam(300) dollars. If you're gonna do that kind of manual labor you might as well go balls out. Ive got a 6.4 cam sittin on my shelf that i decided to not use. As well as a NSR stage 1 cam. I went balls out 🤣
Does this all apply to a 2016 RAM 2500 5.7 who does not have MDS. I am worked about the lifters So I wanted to just replace the stock Cam with something that won't cause lifter failures. Reliability is the key to all of this. I watched some videos that said the stock Cam was not hardened properly and likely caused the lifter failures. And the lifter failures caused more damage to the cam and an endless cycle. This is a search and rescue truck that we use to tow.
The lifters failed because the needle bearings were weak. When the valves in the mds lifters opened and released pressure on them, during cruising and you suddenly demand full engine performance, youre mashing lifters into a cam thats revolving extremely quick. No matter what youre going to eventually damage both. The HRT lineup is apparently a more durable design, pairing that with non mds lifters hardened rods and performance springs will add insurance. But also the hemi doesnt have oil jets like the srt engine does. Which is why when the 6.4 eats lifters, you need a new engine. The 5.7 can eat them all day long. I went through 3 full sets before i finally did my cam swap. And i maintain the hell outta it. Don't buy "hellcat" lifters at a high price. Theyre the exact same lifters that come in ur hemi. Anyone who says otherwise is trying to pull a con.
Hey man I have an 2022 rt challenger 6speed and I’m getting ready to do long tube headers and a cam … what did you use for tuning and was it hard to tune?
Short tubes handicap the car compared to longtubes. I was able to compare my car with identical mods to another identical car, the only difference was i had shorties and he had LTs. I had him til 40 and than he walked me. I went LTs and with the mods ive got now, shorties would be like going back to dogleg manifolds.
Nice and comprehensive, thanks for the information! I've actually considered going with the Mopar Staged Scat Pack upgrades, there are 3 with Stage 3 being a cam and supporting mods as well. The Stages build on each other as they go, seems interesting.
@@DonnySRT I was thinking of just for now pedal box ...an intake manifold because the supercharger to expensive ...I thought about the cam but not too much good feedback from it
Donny what’s up bro 2013 rt Daytona here in San Diego California I been watching your channel as well as B mason from txt how is it possible for me to talk to you to ask a few ? Before I buy a few parts. I don’t mind sharing my # with you buddbthanks
Definitive Performance Llc in San Bernardino if you in the area. I went through two tuners and I'm satisfied with their work hands down best Mopar shop in the I.E area.
bottom line, either boost a 345, or just buy a hellcat, imo the scat pack is useless ( reason being because you can’t do too many mods to it ) plus it’s more expensive to maintain and ofc buyout prices are more expensive than 345s
Your the best Donny , thanks for taking the route that most of us are nervous to take and really helping us understand what we need and don’t need and what’s realistic with the process ! Much love brother !
I really appreciate these types of comments. Im glad to hear the videos are helpful, thank you for the support!
I randomly found this video, but upgrading your camshaft is an absolute must, the more power and bigger hits to your Pistons are going to bring out more movement and power from the engine
Can’t wait I pick up my 2022 r/t shaker this Wednesday, coming from a V6 the r/t is fast enough for me.
From what I’ve learned with my Charger is, you need to focus on the drive terrain first. So like rear diff and transmission upgrades.
Supporting mods are a must
I have a 2012 charger in the same 11-14 years as yours. Do our charger years need more work to support mods other than 2015+ models? Our transmission is a bit outdated but I wonder if it can really handle modded power
@silentagony1019 do u have an answer for this I know this comment is old if not I'll let you know in the coming weeks I have a 220/230 cam shaft on way 2014 challenger.
Just went back and watched again. A great video that I really suggest anyone to watch before any modifications. Back in 2015, when I bought my first Sublime Green RT, I kept it stock for awhile. I think we started doing the same cam at the same time with many of the same issues.
After that, I regretted getting that car cammed. At least until I found a reputable tuner, and even then, this was my daily. All that jerking and surging and then sometimes dying at lights was horrible.
I recommend that if you want to skip your manufacturer warranty, stick with either just tune stock and enjoy it or long tubes and tune.
At least until the finances, resources, and good tuners are aligned.
I remember going thru those tuning pains together. Took me a long time to get sorted out, and I really don't blame you because some of the issues were unbearable in hindsight
@@DonnySRT I have Kooks long tube headers and a 93 tune on my R/T , was thinking of putting a 392 cam in it. Not looking for chop just a little more whp
Well said Donny, appreciate your honesty! You were having a bitch of a time with tuners when you first got the cam in, that had to be frustrating. Finding a tuner who can properly tune your car after a major mod like a cam or supercharger is so important! And you're 100% right about realistic performance expectations of a cam upgrade. My results are the same as what you're seeing, I can beat stock 392s but it's still a drivers race and it's pretty even. Cheers man!
I agree don’t go n/a route if u wanna beat everyone go blower but if u wanna upset some people and sound good while ur chopping n/a is the way to go but honestly a blower and some other goodies this lil r/t be about 700whp see y’all there u heard it here 1st
When I did my cam on my car (same hrt stage 2 cam) I was worried about the tuning situation on it and was pleasantly surprised when a local guy here in Phoenix Az tuned it in less than an hour and it drives basically like stock, only spent like 3.3k on the project including the tune and can definitely say it was worth it
I’m from AZ, I’m saving up for the Same cam kit (HRT st2) for my 07 dodge magnum rt non-vvt . I’m looking for a good Hemi tuner, where did you take yours and is there really a surging issue. Also is the shopping aggressive or mild.
@@karib9891 pinky tuned look him up on insta, I get basically no surging driving it, I’ve only experienced a small surge when going from drive to reverse occasionally but definitely not bad, chop is pretty good that’s why I love this cam, definitely recommend him if your local to az
Thank you.
Great video brother and agree with all your points. I’ve been there. Trying to bust 392s and until I went boosted you just cant do it. A FBO 5.7 with a cam can keep up and makes it a drivers race. Make a mistake and your done off the line. Keep ot up brother!
See, I appreciate hearing this from someone else who has been down a similar path as myself. People are convinced than simple bolt-ons will have them dragging 392s. It takes more than that...
@@DonnySRT hey bro i have a question you think i can get near 400 hp to the wheels with all the bolt ons you had but including the e85 i live in minnesota so its cold
Great info. Thanks for waiting for a long period of time to give the true results of the build. Will be following your channel.
Appreciate the support! Hopefully you find the content informative
Build it yourself = more satisfaction, save on labor, learn how the vehicle responds to your touch, etc! Hey; who put your cam in? Hey; I did it in 4 hours minus the tune! Good video! Not saying you’ll bang one out or I did in four hours but you get my point!
I installed it myself, well, with the help of my dad and grandpa. 4 hours is insanely fast!
Thanks for the video. This has definitely helped me make up my mind on if I want to eventually upgrade the cam on my Challenger R/T . I was thinking about it later on down the line to go with the bolt ons I already have
My Charger is a 2016 police pursuit Hemi awd car so it has the cop brake package and suspension. I did bbk shorty headers and put the cat mud pipes back on and bought a 3” stainless exhaust that has a huge x pipe compared to the factory one. The pipes have small glass packs on each tail pipe. It sounds deep and growls no crackle popping from it. My Iroc was a tuned port car with a 5.0 mated to a 5 speed manual. I sold it to my buddies uncle 13 years ago and he put a 350 short block in it with the 305 heads and TPI system. It has a beefy cam in it supposedly I have no idea what pistons he used to e car needs some work like performance chip for the pcm, it was running to high coolant temps so I gotta figure out what’s going on there. He kind of gave up on it and it’s been sitting for almost the entire 13 years he had it. He just passed away a month ago and the family asked if I wanted to buy it. I’m gonna guess it needs a 180 degree thermostat and I need to make sure the electric fans are kicking on. I’m pretty excited to get it back and figure it out.
I kind of want to go the cammed + fbo route with my R/T instead of buying a scat pack since I’ll have my car for awhile tbh. Thanks for the info Donny!
Not a bad route just depends on the end goal!
@@DonnySRT At this current moment in time, I really want to build my car instead of buying a scat pack since to me it feels like everyone has one these days and I really love the 11-14 charger Bodystyle. I still plan on owning my old 2011 R/T for a few more years until I can jump up to a hellcat.
You described what happened to me perfect. I had an rt had an order in for an intake manifold and was working my way towards the cam and a good deal came up for a 392. Canceled the order for the intake and used it for part of a down payment
Before i threw my cam in, i was ahead of scats by a fender(AWD,FBO) i went with the HRT stage 2 cam. Was going to add the 392 intake but im gonna sell it and the intake i bought for it and put it towards a performance trans.
The HRT Cam was 500
Full lifters(4 sets) 120 ea.
Mopar performance valve springs( 16@4.46 ea)
Upper gasket kit(86)
New oil pump(157)
Comp cams pushrods(220)
Labor 2100
Tune 650
About 4300 total. Im expecting 402 whp. Which is why i wanted to throw on the 392 and not wire it in, and drag it down to 387.
Idk how the 8 speed are, but the Nag1 took to the 3200 stall converter perfectly. Drove like factory until you pancaked the pedal. Dropped a second on my 0-60 from that alone.
even get some 1/4 times? i rarely see awd 5.7s
@@murdered300c not intentionally, last time i tested it(PFP-basically stock) i was on the side of the road in the rain and just mashed it. Haven't gotten the car back. Apparently my PCM has given up on life and my cooling fan will NOT come on. Went and ran it myself, no fan. Did gurgle after i shut it off though 🙃
Thanks for being so honest about the pros and cons. It was really helpful.
That was an excellent video bro. Keepup the good work and hope to see you on the drag strip.👊👍
Thanks for the info. Been thinking about camming my R/T Durango, but it’s my daily driver. I don’t want all of the headaches that you explained plus the extra thousands of dollars it will take.
Same boat I’m in. I still wanna add a supercharger tho 😂
Love your video brother, I have an RT myself I’m gonna upgrade engine soon after my warranty is done
Honesty is the policy! Great vid!
Solid advice and I thank you Donny 👊🏽😉
Absolutely!
If you get the FTI 9” 3600 rpm stall you’re going to really optimize your gains with that cam. Then you’re going to have to go back to the tuner for the stall lock ups.
Hey man good vid but I was just wondering what do you think of just a cam my client just wants it to sound nice what do you think?
I want to do it... how much power do you gain? Cost? Site?
Had a lifter failure on my ram 5.7. Was wondering if you install cams
Same. Got a tsp stage 2 cam installed, love it
Mmx is doing mine on my scat pack paid 6k for longtube headers,Max effort cam kit with mds delete, dyno tune and installation. Still waiting to get it back.
This is a good price
@@DonnySRT picked it up today it’s no hellcat but damn sure is fun to drive!
The 🐐 is back
Thank you sir for the explanation.
I’m in the process of modding a hemi, I’m doing cam,ghetto porting, torque converter, valve body and swapping it into a ford, I’m expecting around 500hp on 91
That will be a pretty sweet setup. “Ghetto porting” had me laughing
Perhaps it would have been helpful to take into account how there are mild camshafts and aggressive camshafts? Milder ones when properly tuned should be fine for daily driving. While a stage-2 may be relatively aggressive aimed at occasional street/weekend racing. Then there are stage 3 cams with serious street/track racing intent.
Very good point. Not every cam is going to yield the same experience I've had
You really need the stall man. I’ve been thinking of getting the chop monster cam for mine and a FTI 9” stall. But I’m no where near a dyno tuner. I’m wondering if I can use the HP tuners route but I don’t know. I’m also on the fence now with doing anything with my Charger because I’m getting my 88 IROC Z28 back and it has a mild built 350 in it now so I may be focusing on that more and just leave the Charger alone.
Should I get a tune before or after getting a cam
My 2014 Charger R/T is misfiring and I suspect it’s because of the lifters. So I’m likely changing all of those out as well as Rods and maybe springs, would it be worth it to put in a 392 cam while the mechanic is in there? It’s a daily driver and I don’t wanna drop more than 5k, but I don’t wanna waste my opportunity while the engine is opened up
I’m thinking about putting a 392 cam in my 5.7, simple and cheap and easier to tune.
At the end of the day, the difference is the cost of the cam(300) dollars. If you're gonna do that kind of manual labor you might as well go balls out. Ive got a 6.4 cam sittin on my shelf that i decided to not use. As well as a NSR stage 1 cam. I went balls out 🤣
@@mrhyde0705 I realized that too, I’m actually installing a comp cam 270 and some long tubes this weekend, go big or go home.
Does this all apply to a 2016 RAM 2500 5.7 who does not have MDS. I am worked about the lifters So I wanted to just replace the stock Cam with something that won't cause lifter failures. Reliability is the key to all of this. I watched some videos that said the stock Cam was not hardened properly and likely caused the lifter failures. And the lifter failures caused more damage to the cam and an endless cycle. This is a search and rescue truck that we use to tow.
The lifters failed because the needle bearings were weak. When the valves in the mds lifters opened and released pressure on them, during cruising and you suddenly demand full engine performance, youre mashing lifters into a cam thats revolving extremely quick. No matter what youre going to eventually damage both. The HRT lineup is apparently a more durable design, pairing that with non mds lifters hardened rods and performance springs will add insurance. But also the hemi doesnt have oil jets like the srt engine does. Which is why when the 6.4 eats lifters, you need a new engine. The 5.7 can eat them all day long. I went through 3 full sets before i finally did my cam swap. And i maintain the hell outta it. Don't buy "hellcat" lifters at a high price. Theyre the exact same lifters that come in ur hemi. Anyone who says otherwise is trying to pull a con.
@@mrhyde0705 do you have a ram? What would you suggest for me to bulletproof my Hemi?
What handheld tuner is best for a mds delete EGR delete and stage 1 cam and headers?
Which cam did you install? 6.4 cam?
Hey man I have an 2022 rt challenger 6speed and I’m getting ready to do long tube headers and a cam … what did you use for tuning and was it hard to tune?
Why did you go short tube to long tube headers? I’m planning going the FULLBLOWN route as well.
I have longtubes but I’m thinking of going back to short tubes
Short tubes handicap the car compared to longtubes. I was able to compare my car with identical mods to another identical car, the only difference was i had shorties and he had LTs. I had him til 40 and than he walked me. I went LTs and with the mods ive got now, shorties would be like going back to dogleg manifolds.
Hellcats come with shortys… there’s nothing wrong with them. Just get a proper tune.
Nice and comprehensive, thanks for the information! I've actually considered going with the Mopar Staged Scat Pack upgrades, there are 3 with Stage 3 being a cam and supporting mods as well. The Stages build on each other as they go, seems interesting.
Can you get away with the Diablo sport trinity 2 tune????
Hey DonnyRT, did you get your Hemi Remote tuned or locally tuned?
Dyno tuned
Brent with HPTuners had no issues with my MMX NA lope cam on my 5.7 charger
It really depends on the camshaft. The cars can be touchy with certain ones
Thanks!
I appreciate the support man! - it goes right back into the channel!
I had a cammed fbo e85 rt I couldn't pass Emissions in Illinois even with no check engine light on. how has it been for u ?
Haven't had inspection yet on this car. I didn't know Illinois was super strict, though
I wanted the cam but if I’m spending 10k for it and install i might as well get a blower instead
Yea, at that price level, save up for a blower
@@DonnySRT im getting one after my next deployment. I was getting a cam but after speaking to cammed cars i decided the sound is not worth the money
boosting will require ported parts as well correct, if so which parts other than the heads ?
boosting will require ported parts as well correct, if so which parts other than the heads ?
@@StockCarGuy not necessarily but if u wanna max out the outcome yes
Big Papi!!
Oh Gosh go to an ss channel my boy!
Your not welcome anymore bud
What do you mean by boost it ? What mods exactly do I need ?
Boost means a supercharger or a turbo
Stay bless god is good
What is the best cam for the 5.7 hemi ?
Depends on your application and your supporting mods
Can your car beat a 5.0?
What other route can we go besides cam...
Supercharger
@@DonnySRT I was thinking of just for now pedal box ...an intake manifold because the supercharger to expensive ...I thought about the cam but not too much good feedback from it
Donny what’s up bro 2013 rt Daytona here in San Diego California I been watching your channel as well as B mason from txt how is it possible for me to talk to you to ask a few ? Before I buy a few parts. I don’t mind sharing my # with you buddbthanks
Instagram is the best way to reach me bro!
🦖
What shop would you recommend in cali for tunes and performance mods on RT's?
Definitive Performance Llc in San Bernardino if you in the area. I went through two tuners and I'm satisfied with their work hands down best Mopar shop in the I.E area.
8 to 10 thousand I don’t know who the hell u going to to get a cam installed
For real tho 🤣🤣
Sounds like you just went with a far too aggressive cam shaft for your application.
To a certain extent, I would agree
Truuuuuuu BOOST BOOST BOOST
The problem with your tuner is that he was a they. Stick with he/hims, you’ll be better off.
bottom line, either boost a 345, or just buy a hellcat, imo the scat pack is useless ( reason being because you can’t do too many mods to it ) plus it’s more expensive to maintain and ofc buyout prices are more expensive than 345s
Sounds likea bad idea.
but I find it funny if to make pig noises going down the road.
If you wanna go fast for a lot cheaper, stop buying vehicles that way more than 4000 pounds
I’m finding this out the hard way.about to sell my cat to get in a corvette .
Some people have family, freinds, and other hobbies and like to be able to haul people and stuff too.
@@ionengine714 that’s why a lot of us have multiple cars.