I wish it was referred to as a much cooler name in the west, rather than two cardinal directions put together. So much potential here for a better name from the examples you gave here
Recently I have noticed videos on social media with Thai people calling Cambodia, “claimbodia” and Khmer people calling Thailand, “thiefland”. The idea of both countries wanting to be the originators of our shared culture and customs. Me being khmer, I’m kind of biased but I just want the truth to clear the air.
It's good to love and respect each other's cultures. As an American, I can tell you that the average person will not think much more deeply than their culture instructs them to. As a husband of a Thai living in Cambodia, I can tell you that the conflict seems somewhat petty but history is far more nuanced than the average person is willing to think critically of. All the best to your country.
@@CautionCU As an American myself, I can tell you that history as we know it is distorted, so this is why some people from either side makes such claims. It’s their symptoms of ultranationalism manifesting this sense of pettiness. Very toxic and divisive. At the end of the day, it is a shared culture given the history of interaction and close proximity. Khmer and Thai people here in the US are united and hold sentiments of kinship but it is different over there in the motherlands. It’s all propaganda the way I see it
Hi! I’m a Thai American musician/researcher and my current research involves the relationships between Thai, Lao, and Cambodian arts and culture and how it influences interactions between Thai, Lao, and Cambodian people. You pretty much hit the nail right on the head. The truth about cultural origins is far more complex and nuanced than most people realize and there are so many misconceptions and generalizations. If you look at the things that Thai and Cambodian people tend to argue about online (like architecture, clothing, arts, etc.) there are things that originate in Khmer culture, things that originate in Thai culture (or other Tai-speaking cultures like Lao or Shan), and things that originate from another foreign source. Every little detail, clothing/jewelry piece, instrument, tune, etc. has its own history. People who push for this either/or cultural ownership are ultranationalists who can’t admit that their culture was influenced by the other, or are people who have been misguided by these ultranationalist narratives. For example, we can look closer at the main instruments in the modern in the pinpeat/piphat ensemble in Cambodian/Thai classical music, which is assumed by most people to have its origins in ancient Khmer culture: - kong vong/khong wong is an ancient Southeast Asian instrument design that far predates Khmer or Thai cultures. - sralai/pi oboes were probably introduced from India, but the particular design is only used in Cambodia and central Thailand, so it’s most likely of Khmer origin. - the roneat/ranat xylophone design is not depicted in any confirmed iconography or descriptions of either Thai or Cambodian music until the early 19th century (except a single possible “hidden” 18th century painting at Angkor Wat), but they do show up in Burma a hundred years before, so they were likely introduced to Cambodia via Thailand since Thailand had much more interaction with the Burmese during that time period. - the iron and gold versions (roneat dek/ranat lek and roneat thong/ranat thong) are modeled after Javanese gamelan instruments and were created in the mid-19th century in the Thai court to celebrate the king’s trip to Java. It was introduced to Cambodia by Cambodian royalty who were exiled in the Thai court. Plus, the name “roneat thong” is very clearly from Thai (thong means gold in Thai but not in Khmer). Cambodian sources usually leave this out and simply say that the instrument is from ancient Cambodia. - the samphor/taphon drum is modeled after the South Indian mridangam - the skor thom/glong thad drums are modeled after Chinese barrel drums - the ching cymbals are modeled after cymbals that accompany classical Indian dance. This ensemble is usually (falsely) thought of as having been adopted in its entire form by the Thai court after Ayutthaya invaded Angkor in 1431, even by Thai people, but in reality, we have instruments that are so old that we can’t really say when they entered into Thai or Khmer cultures, Khmer instruments that were adopted by central Thais (after the invasion of Angkor, but probably starting like 400 years before that), and Thai instruments that were adopted by Cambodians (mostly in modern times, but there are other examples of Thai things that spread to Cambodia as early as the 13th century, like certain silk textiles and numerical terms).
Thank you for posting the lectures, including this one. If I may note, however, your pronunciation of "Golden Island" ("Chryse") and "Chresonesos" in Greek is completely incorrect.
Also, there is no such thing as "Austrian" language! German is spoken in Austria. So the term was German, not "Viennese" (Vienna is the capital of Austria)
It's a khim, a beautiful sounding instrument from Cambodia-Thailand-Laos. You can listen to the whole track here if you are interested: @Music Library: ruclips.net/video/IStRGS1sYsE/видео.html
I'll note that the term "East Indies" often included more than just Southeast Asia; the terms "India" and "the Indies" were applied very widely by Europeans prior to the 19th century (when they started gaining a better grasp on the geography of Asia and their labels got more specific), and so in the 17th and 18th centuries the "East Indies" would often include South Asia, Madagascar, and even the eastern parts of mainland Africa alongside Southeast Asia.
Philippines malay and indonesia is same culture before islam and Christianity was brought to us that the only thing I know in our history a pre-colonial era
![Ice On My Teeth - ATEEZ エイティーズ 에이티즈 [Music Bank] | KBS WORLD TV 241115](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/c-n92OgbbwA/mqdefault.jpg)
I wish it was referred to as a much cooler name in the west, rather than two cardinal directions put together. So much potential here for a better name from the examples you gave here
Humans used to be better at naming things before the Modern Era, imo.
Recently I have noticed videos on social media with Thai people calling Cambodia, “claimbodia” and Khmer people calling Thailand, “thiefland”. The idea of both countries wanting to be the originators of our shared culture and customs. Me being khmer, I’m kind of biased but I just want the truth to clear the air.
It's good to love and respect each other's cultures. As an American, I can tell you that the average person will not think much more deeply than their culture instructs them to. As a husband of a Thai living in Cambodia, I can tell you that the conflict seems somewhat petty but history is far more nuanced than the average person is willing to think critically of. All the best to your country.
@@CautionCU As an American myself, I can tell you that history as we know it is distorted, so this is why some people from either side makes such claims. It’s their symptoms of ultranationalism manifesting this sense of pettiness. Very toxic and divisive. At the end of the day, it is a shared culture given the history of interaction and close proximity. Khmer and Thai people here in the US are united and hold sentiments of kinship but it is different over there in the motherlands. It’s all propaganda the way I see it
Hi! I’m a Thai American musician/researcher and my current research involves the relationships between Thai, Lao, and Cambodian arts and culture and how it influences interactions between Thai, Lao, and Cambodian people. You pretty much hit the nail right on the head. The truth about cultural origins is far more complex and nuanced than most people realize and there are so many misconceptions and generalizations. If you look at the things that Thai and Cambodian people tend to argue about online (like architecture, clothing, arts, etc.) there are things that originate in Khmer culture, things that originate in Thai culture (or other Tai-speaking cultures like Lao or Shan), and things that originate from another foreign source. Every little detail, clothing/jewelry piece, instrument, tune, etc. has its own history. People who push for this either/or cultural ownership are ultranationalists who can’t admit that their culture was influenced by the other, or are people who have been misguided by these ultranationalist narratives.
For example, we can look closer at the main instruments in the modern in the pinpeat/piphat ensemble in Cambodian/Thai classical music, which is assumed by most people to have its origins in ancient Khmer culture:
- kong vong/khong wong is an ancient Southeast Asian instrument design that far predates Khmer or Thai cultures.
- sralai/pi oboes were probably introduced from India, but the particular design is only used in Cambodia and central Thailand, so it’s most likely of Khmer origin.
- the roneat/ranat xylophone design is not depicted in any confirmed iconography or descriptions of either Thai or Cambodian music until the early 19th century (except a single possible “hidden” 18th century painting at Angkor Wat), but they do show up in Burma a hundred years before, so they were likely introduced to Cambodia via Thailand since Thailand had much more interaction with the Burmese during that time period.
- the iron and gold versions (roneat dek/ranat lek and roneat thong/ranat thong) are modeled after Javanese gamelan instruments and were created in the mid-19th century in the Thai court to celebrate the king’s trip to Java. It was introduced to Cambodia by Cambodian royalty who were exiled in the Thai court. Plus, the name “roneat thong” is very clearly from Thai (thong means gold in Thai but not in Khmer). Cambodian sources usually leave this out and simply say that the instrument is from ancient Cambodia.
- the samphor/taphon drum is modeled after the South Indian mridangam
- the skor thom/glong thad drums are modeled after Chinese barrel drums
- the ching cymbals are modeled after cymbals that accompany classical Indian dance.
This ensemble is usually (falsely) thought of as having been adopted in its entire form by the Thai court after Ayutthaya invaded Angkor in 1431, even by Thai people, but in reality, we have instruments that are so old that we can’t really say when they entered into Thai or Khmer cultures, Khmer instruments that were adopted by central Thais (after the invasion of Angkor, but probably starting like 400 years before that), and Thai instruments that were adopted by Cambodians (mostly in modern times, but there are other examples of Thai things that spread to Cambodia as early as the 13th century, like certain silk textiles and numerical terms).
Thank you for posting the lectures, including this one. If I may note, however, your pronunciation of "Golden Island" ("Chryse") and "Chresonesos" in Greek is completely incorrect.
Also, there is no such thing as "Austrian" language! German is spoken in Austria. So the term was German, not "Viennese" (Vienna is the capital of Austria)
What are the names of the music used during the transitions? They are really beautiful pieces
It's a khim, a beautiful sounding instrument from Cambodia-Thailand-Laos. You can listen to the whole track here if you are interested: @Music Library: ruclips.net/video/IStRGS1sYsE/видео.html
@@storiesinhistory Much Appreciated🙏
I'll note that the term "East Indies" often included more than just Southeast Asia; the terms "India" and "the Indies" were applied very widely by Europeans prior to the 19th century (when they started gaining a better grasp on the geography of Asia and their labels got more specific), and so in the 17th and 18th centuries the "East Indies" would often include South Asia, Madagascar, and even the eastern parts of mainland Africa alongside Southeast Asia.
That makes sense. Thanks for the clarification!
Philippines malay and indonesia is same culture before islam and Christianity was brought to us that the only thing I know in our history a pre-colonial era