@@guymry I literally just started watching, and from what you said up to the 50 second mark I think that you might've had the same interpretation of the game that I did. I will comment again when I finish watching, here's hoping my comments don't randomly get deleted.
@@suziebarfield1796 That's the common belief (in context), because the Rito showed up and the Zora vanished... or so they think. There are still Fishmen in Wind Waker, now tell me, how exactly would you describe a Zora? The Rito came back to the surface because with the world flooded, it was now easier to guard themselves from grounded threats. They could keep using their natural skills to aid in their own defense with nothing impeding their line of sight. Any monsters and raiders would be obvious to see trying to come to their island. But because they came back to the surface unseen by the other races.
Watching this video was like a friend explaining a conspiracy map that's tied together with string and thumbtacks, except the string is made of spaghetti and also we're both on meth
The Rito not being the WW Rito is like one of the easiest plotholes to explain. The WW ones were magically evolved zoras due to the flood. BotW Rito are just naturally occurring.
It would also make sense for the Zora to start evolving after the flood, freak out about it, try to do research on what's happening to them, find info about an ancient race of bird people blessed by the gods called Rito, and figure that must be what they are now and it was all just a blessing from the gods.
@@amandaslough125 Honestly? There are claims that the Zora all evolved into Rito, and that there are no Zora in Wind Waker still living but like... There are fishmen you feed and get info from... Can you remind me of the description of a Zora?
If I may, I want to run a theory that I've had in my head for a few years regarding Girahim. It should be noted that Girahim and Fi have the same aesthetic design. Diamond motifs, similar hair, the same eyes (when not in disguise). Consider for a moment the Trident of Darkness as it appears in Four Swords Adventure. An all-black trident with a red gemstone, hidden away by the Gerudo in a pyramid. With the inscription that says that it will allow its wielder to "become the King of Darkness." What if Girahim, Demise's living weapon, didn't merely fade away? What if Girahim still exists as Ganondorf's chosen weapons? Recall that while Fi only takes the form of the single blade, Girahim creates multiple blades. Sabers, daggers, a claymore... So why not a trident? One that Ganondorf's kin would seal away in the hopes that their rogue king would never find?
@@cartoonistanonymous And the Trident takes many different forms from game to game, Four Swords Adventure is the one game where it has the same colors as anything Girahim makes so it's not like this theory holds much weight. I just find it fascinating that this specific version of the Trident is the only one that holds any reverence or significance. Enough that it has its own prison, with its own inscription, detailing a very specific ability. Though now that I'm thinking about it, Demise and his minions arose from beneath the earth, right? Isn't it a bit suspect that the Trident in the upcoming Echoes of Wisdom game suddenly has this heretofore unique ability to create rifts along the surface of Hyrule??? Perhaps Demise didn't come from beneath the *literal earth*, but through a rift?
@@dannattack4211 Right? And even then, this ONE iteration of the Trident is the only time it looks like that. That said, I'd still like to see Girahim make a return in some capacity. If not as a spirit, then as a long-dormant weapon, mirroring the Master Sword like he did way back. Come to think of it, the Death Sword from Twilight Princess is black with red inscription. And it's a popular headcanon that it was "Ganondorf's Sword", despite the lack of proof. However, it was imprisoned in the desert, just like the Four Swords Trident. 🤔🤔🤔
Well, I don't think that one's too big of a revelation. Ganon has always been the form Ganondorf is transformed into by the Triforce of Power. This Ganondorf never found the Triforce, so of course he wouldn't transform into Ganon.
@@Sarah_Hpersonally I see both of those more as Phantoms/ a manifestation of Ganondorf’s powers (aka the gloom/malice) than actual forms, since Ganondorfs doesn’t transform into them since in BOTW Ganondorf is still being held by Raru’s bind. They’re basically like overpowered Gloom Ganons haha 😂 At least that’s ny point of view.
A crippling fixation and undying passion in the face of pessimism is a drunk in and of itself I like to think that this is what the game developers intended when they made totk, for us to literaly just start making up stuff for the sake of trying to create our own satisfying conclusions to something that seemed to reject us if we got ONE thing wrong
I mean. Does it make sense? It's being claimed that the totk ancient past with the zonai happens before demise as far as i can tell, which wouldn't make sense. Like at all
@@auraFireblood In what way does it not make sense? This is about as close to my personal theory on how this fits into the timeline as I've seen anyone get so far. I don't see a single thing that contradicts it, but if you've got one, I'm all ears. I just haven't been proven wrong yet, and I'm eager to be. In fact, there are notable pieces in here that fill in a few of the final holes in my personal theory.
@@JRook-00Curious, how do we explain the items from different games like the majoras's mask outfit and such? Also do you have an idea of where present TOTK would fit into the timeline?
This. This is my new Canon. I absolutely LOVE how you've connected all these points in a way that writes a cohesive story. I really REALLY like this video. Jaw was dropped when you said the dungeons were safe-havens for the other races. Good job man. Insane quality theory.
What makes it make even more sense - the dungeons are literally called Temples. A temple is a holy place of worship and is synonymous with the word Sanctuary. In other words, Hylia created a sanctuary in each major region for each major race.
@@clouds-rb9xt Totk is after botw becuase the present events of totk take place after botw. It's not like the timeline specifies that totk's past events take place right before botw, so maybe they also take place before other games.
I like this theory. The two princesses could have had their identities concealed to protect them. Zelda being sent off to become a priestess, and Impa working under Mineru.
Further evidence that the past in totk predates skyward sword is that, while Zelda comes back from the future, link is not present to fight ganandorf which must mean that the reincarnation cycle hasn't yet started
@RoyalPhoenix991 what if the existence of the mastersword is a paradox. By sending it back in time Hylia was inspired to insure its creation. By sending it back it creates 2 masterswords but we simply only interacted with the one weve sent back
@dtk1981 Well technically there weren't two masterswords at the start of the game. When we first see dragon zelda flying around the sky island she doesn't have the master sword in her head. That only appears after link sends it back in time. So the original timeline has zelda still turn into a dragon regardless. So the link at the start would be the starting of the paradox. Shit gives me a headache, cause that would mean there's a version of link who never sent the sword back in the first place leading to another paradox. That would mean the MS was create by hylia of her own design with no inspirations
My favorite part of all Zelda speculation is that the game's writers have pretty much said they come up with the game first and worry about lore later, so it's entirely possible they could see these theories and just go "hey, that works" and give it ye olde canon stamp via references in future games. This ties things together quite nicely I think.
also, the castle was moved to cover the site at which gannon was being held as to not disturb the spell and break it the castles' whole purpose is to seal and protect Raurus spell
Probably because he doesn't sound like he's talking out of his ass (as much as he tries to downplay it as such). There is every indication that the three newest games are connected, and that they happen far from the other games in order to give the writers a buffer, this video is playing into that as intended, while other videos are obsessing over dumb things like "lInK iS aCtuAllY a StAlfOs gUys"
@@daniel8181agreed people like zeltik who is usually smart with the newer games it sounds like he is just saying random stuff but this dude sounds like he was actually doing research
@@carterbohren8253 There is a really interesting interview with aonuma and fujibayashi, where fujibayashi explained his approach to the "lore" as "like archaeology". This approach makes people like myself MORE interested in the "lore" than before because it becomes a massive puzzle. Other youtubers seem to view the "lore" of zelda as a series of puzzles, each game completes a single puzzle that can sit next to a previous puzzle in a gallery. I think people like myself and this youtuber see the games as one massive puzzle that is only slightly more complete with each entry, revealing connections as more pieces are added. The point of view changes the reaction significantly, if each entry must be neatly tied up, when you see totk you say "This is incomplete! They did not finish the game!" but when its only a handful of pieces inside a larger work, the conclusion is "Ah, I am that much closer to understanding"
Yaaaaaaaas. I feel like the lore in this game is so Beautifully vague and really fun to speculate about. It makes the entire franchise feel even MORE like plausible legends from the past, like we keep getting pieces of it, but never the full story. That's the most fun way to tell a story, I think. It keeps the mystery in tact while also paving the way for some really fun revelations. Good work my guy.
Totally. Zelda lore is kinda unique where it somehow manages to straddle the line between there being concrete answers a somehow creating a fertile bed for imaginative speculation that isn't just crazy, but might be legit. Almost like a puzzle that doesn't just fit together one way but it's not just chaos either. You can literally solve the "puzzle" a few different ways
@@zachhiggins1668 Exactly. And like... that's basically the fun of studying history anyway, since we can never truly Truly know what happened. And there's never really one answer, since every person's perspective can be so different. Like there's for sure a true version, but the fun part is reasoning and trying to figure out if it works! Then sometimes someone comes along with new evidence and it completely changes everything!
Loved it, only breadcrumb to offer is "The descriptions of the First Calamity line up scary well with descriptions of the War against Demise." In the first, we get what seems like an incarnation/priestess of Hylia and her Chosen Hero sealing away an Incarnation of Demise, alone save four divine beasts and an army of guardians. In the second, we have Hylia and her Chosen Hero sealing away an incarnation of Demise, ostensibly alone after having sent everyone to safety in the sky. They could very well be two differing but non-exclusionary accounts of the same event.
The eye symbol was clearly taken from the Zonai to the Shiekah and not the other way around. As Rauru actally HAS the third eye on his forehead that looks exactly like the symbol and it's very unlikely that he was so inspired by the sheikah that he just... grew a third eye
This is legendary imo. This all connects so well, But maybe it's because I'm a big TOTK fan despite it's flaws. ( I think TOTK has so much creative potential that wasn't capitalized on, but it leaves so much room for brainstorming and imagination!) I very much like the Sheikah and the royal family being sister families descended from Rauru and Sonia. I lends credence to the Idea that Hyrule was "restarted" more than once. Rauru's Hyrule was the first, was halted after the Wars between Hylia and Demise, only to be reinstated by Hylia-reincarnated Zelda, intentionally obscuring the Zonai into myth. Also, It's fitting that Hylia decided to be reincarnated into the bloodline of her most devoted priestess Sonia (presumably.)
I actually really liked this video. Like REALLY REALLY liked this video. More than the other high quality/production value theory videos because 1. This lore is just absolutelly insane 2. bro's just really happy bout it and that rubs off. Good job man, A+
2:22 just want to point out that in one of the new Echoes of Wisdom trailers, they specifically say that there are 2 different zora's, The River Zora and the Ocean Zora
Thanks for being open to having fun with this lore. I can’t believe it took the algorithm a month to show me this vid, but better late than never. Subbed!
I love this idea. I agree with everything said here. I think the only thing I disagree with is the reason this video was made. People are burnt out of Totk lore and all that because all the trailers and hype leading up to totk made us believe it would have this grand story that would answer all these questions. We mostly got more questions. Totk lore is interesting, and this video is really really interesting and points out things we haven't seen before, but I don't think anyone can be blamed for being pessimistic about totk lore. This video mostly disregards the actual story presented to you by totk aside from some main points (zelda going back, ganondorf's actions, etc) and I think that's a good thing. totk's story needed wayyyyyyyy more fleshing out, and it's also the thinking of "but this is the story of the game, we should focus on that." you were willing to dive deeper and think outside the walls of the story to reach for some pretty believable stuff. goddess sword being zonai technology? bit of a fucking reach. when it's explained a little further? hm that makes sense... all in all amazing video. I just wish totk had more in it to help push your ideas and less demon king? secret stone?
This is a better version of what I said in my comment. I loved the energy and passion in the video, but it's just not saving anything for me. I love theorizing and speculating, but only if it actually has an answer that is being worked up to. If no theory can be proven, or everything gets blown up every few games, what is the point? When every theory can be right, no one can be right, and then we're just sharing fanfic and head canon. Which is fun, but not the same thing as theory and prediction.
Wasn't expecting that one for sure. I'm skeptical about Demise sending TOTK Ganondorf as a minion. I mean, we clearly see in Skyward Sword that he despises his subordinates, as shown when he turns Ghirahim back into his demon sword. To me, Demise would clearly be worried of TOTK Ganondorf breaking away from his control and getting the Triforce for himself (which also matches TOTK Ganondorf's character better as well). I still believe that TOTK past takes place eons after the timeline we know of and that Rauru and Sonia just created a new Hyrule. Fun theory though.
What if demise hating his minions stems from the fact that the first one he ever had, TOTK Ganondorf, turned out to be so wilful and power-hungry, failing in his mission as a result
while i also made a theory video on what we see being a second founding. this video has way more supporting evidence on the contrary and makes way more sense
I don't think of Ganondorf so much as Demise's subordinate as he is a lingering bit of Demise himself. Though the scemantics for how all of that works are really vague. My personal theory is that all other games take place in the timeline where Demise cursed the world with his hatred after losing the duel to Link, while BotW and TotK take place on the timeline where Link wished to the Goddesses to kill Demise, so they dropped a temple on him.
Especially when rauru says : at least I think I am or something along those lines I forget the exact line of dialogue but regardless, that shows that he is not sure if he is the first king of hyrule and so many people, including some of the youtubers that do Zelda for a living.missed that line and also these 2 games have been breaking convention and doing new things, so not having a ganon would be one of them or having something equivalent to it like the ss power up & the dragon transformation and also that power up looking very much like demise shows that ganondorf is a reincarnation & in botw it's literally stated that he gave up on reincarnation & made the blights & such so he is most definitely a reincarnation of the hatred
I think the problem is how clearly the devs communicated that they didn't care about continuity. It was so strongly negative that everyone was perfectly willing to believe that there was no effort in maintaining timeline consistency. Actually, even though this theory is compelling and seems to line up with the facts, I'm not sure if it even is the intended truth, because it doesn't even seem like the team behind Tears really cares about writing at all.
Unbelievably enough, this is the best and only way I've seen that feasibly connect totk/botw lore with the rest of the timeline; and what's more, I believe it!
In the last part of the video I was like "wait but what about Ganondorf beneath the castle", but the thing about gloom being different from malice really got me thinking. Well done!
the mural in castle town with the winged people is only in the remaster and not the original. the artist who created it said they just thought it would be cool and is not official lore. But the zelda team still could have taken it as canon and added onto it.
The thing about writing a story is that no one *ever* plans out the entire thing all at once. You start writing and the story takes its own shape. That's especially true for something like Zelda, which has nearly 40 years of history, each game written as its own contained story with lore that ties them together. So it honestly doesn't matter if adding those rito to castle town was just to look cool. It's still something that can and will have implications for the shape of the story going forward.
it's also noteworthy that the twilight princess remaster was developed very much alongside botw, there's lot's of very intentional seeming similarities between the botw ancient sheikah and the twili
yeah, it was literally brought up by one of the developers that that was just something they added in for fun because it looked nice. It was not lore relevant whatsoever
@@nworder4life oh then the zelda theories that have gone over it saying it was a Japanese artist were wrong then my bad it still doesn't matter lore wise tho as it was just something cool they added in for fun
22:30 I hate to break it to you, but Zeltik explained that these carvings weren’t sanctioned by Nintendo but some guy who wanted to make some cool art of without knowing the implications.
Small nitpick that doesn't really mess with the theory, but the “bird man” that was in the carvings in Twilight Princess was only there in the HD remaster. It wasn't put there by the game designers, just the people working on the remaster that didn't know the lore they were messing up by doing so
The cool this is the time loop with slight variations, a new storyline can be created using new history and involing new races and characters for a fresh start
Fujibayashi: I like archaeology, and zelda fans like to make theories, so I made SS, BotW, and most especially TotK to play into that Mid-zelda fans: THE LORE IS ABSOLUTELY RUINED, THERES LITERALLY NOTHING TO WORK WITH HERE, NOTHING IS EXPLAINED TO ME AND EVERYTHING IS ALSO PARADOXICALLY OVER-EXPLAINED, THE SERIES IS RUINED WHEN WILL AONUMA DIE?! This guy, 12 coffees deep:
This is exactly what ive been waiting for from zelda youtubers. They wede doing this for botw, but because they got caught up in what people's opinions on the game were they didn't care to do this for totk. Everything made sense and i hope we can get things clarified in the official games.
Ok, one thing I’m convinced of the idea of is that the ToTK temples were the places that Hylia used to protect the four races from demise, and that the Rito stayed up there, which is why we don’t see them in the games until Windwaker where they have evolved into bird people because they were in the sky for so long. That is genius This is the kind of thing that I really doubt that Nintendo planned out but it lines up so well that they should just make it a thing now
As much as I like the ideas of this theory the interviews and story of TOTK just kimda proved to me that there was rarely any thought behind most story elements
something worth noting though is that even though the directors and producers that show up for interviews may not care that much, the artists that work on the elements of the games directly probably give all those little details a lot more thought and care that we give them credit for, have a look at the artbooks for botw and you'll see what i mean
The story seems to be purposely vague for us the fans to speculate. Kinda like what the souls game before elden ring did. The game is literred with alchemical symbolism, and Buddhist concepts that could be tied into a narrative outside of the Zelda canon
I was dubious from the beginning when you mentioned the Interloper War being before Hyrule’s creation, but It was always weird to me how there ALWAYS seems to be something more ancient than the last thing. SS had things on the surface BEFORE the demon tribe and the springs and temples were created far before that. TOTK obviously had the Zonai, TP the Interloper War… but this really does seem plausible and make so much sense. (There are a few long shot things, but it all works. Omg.) and it’s such a unique idea and structuring of everything too, all predicated in the idea that there was a BEFORE to Hylia doing things
When the "official Zelda timeline" was first released, I immediately had the reaction of "Oh no. Please, the games were never meant to have a specific, established timeline, only a vague relation where a couple of them DEFINITELY take place before all the rest. You know, like Legends. This is going to validate the people who claimed everything was always intended this way from the beginning." And then totk came out and those same people complained about how it makes no sense in the timeline, despite it having as many contradictions as any pre-timeline entries. I started thinking that nothing would ever satisfy timeline purists and they just didn't want to be happy and I chose to not even try to justify any timeline besides botw and totk as their own little pocket story. Now _I_ get to be the one saying "No, actually, it makes perfect sense in the timeline."
This is an amazing theory, and I’m near-thoroughly convinced. I’d been working on my own timeline, but I think I’ll have to change mine now. However, I have a few questions: -if races like the gerudo already existed, what did the implication that groose would found the gerudo mean? -what about the race in skyward sword that are clear ancestors to the zora, or the more ancient Gorons? -how would the surface of the world still look so similar after dozens of mellennia, and a war that presumably ravaged the land? -why did the skyloftians found a hyrule so similar to that from the flashbacks?
I don't agree with your overall theory/speculation, but I really do appreciate your goal here. Ever since even BotW, Zelda theorists of today have gotten lazier or less creative when it comes to theories compared to theories made pre-Hyrule Historia. Back then we would go wild with theories, but now it feels like theorists kinda just want everything spoonfed to them. It's such a shame considering how much content there is in both BotW and TotK. You'd think there'd be more theories about things like The Depths, but nope.
Back when people argued back and forth over whether a split timeline was possible. The ones who were against the split would come up with these crazy scenarios to try to create connections to the NES/SNES era games before TWW's flood story or in some sort of unflooded post-TWW world or whatever other ways they tried to deal with it all. And even for those of us that were in favor of the split, pretty much 99.99% of us never imagined the 3-way branching that eventually got published as canon and we were instead seeing much of the series as having retconned away the "Imprisoning War" connection out of OoT and imagining that event somehow coming about after FSA instead. But yeah... The general attitude of many Zelda fans these days seems kinda burnt out on the whole discussion. We have the three branches spelled out for us and it's pretty much all set in stone the way it's been laid out for us there. (Maybe Nintendo has tried to tweak the exact placement of Oracles a couple times since this canon was first published though? But they've tried not to touch the overall sequencing of the first 20-25 years of games too much.) The official statements about BotW's placement really just gave us a soft reboot on the franchise, where we seem to be intended to make the assumption that all three branches experience their own different variations of each other's events in a different sequence from each other but when you jump forward however many tens of thousands of years (perhaps even some number of hundreds of thousands of years?) all the details fade to myths and it makes no tangible difference which order it all happened in and we can't tell the difference and don't need to be able to tell the difference which branch BotW is taking place on. TotK throws this "founding of the kingdom" story at us and I think that most fans at this point are fine with just shrugging it off as a "re-founding", taking it as being that one or more older versions of the kingdom have existed and fallen and gotten forgotten about before over all of the unimagineable number of years that we've skipped ahead. Some fans are even seeing the series canon as being softened down to just concepts and suggestions at this point. Maybe in some hypothetical "true" version of Hyrule that we'll never actually see, all of the previous games we've played are just stories that the bards in that Hyrule tell about the eras that are shrouded in myth. Historical accounts passed down through countless iterations of rewrites and embellishment as the torch gets passed down to each next generation of storytellers. Because "why not?" at this point, right?
It's been a while since I've enjoyed listening to a Zelda theory - Heck, a youtube video- so much. It was incredibly satisfying. I'm so glad this ended up in my feed. I'd really like to commend your story-telling capabilities, and how fluid and well-thought out this presentation of information was. It was narratively fulfilling, and made a lot of connections I haven't heard anywhere else. This interpretation of the overall zelda timeline is fascinating- And the fact that BotW, TotK, and SS were apparently made by the same team is something I never even realized, but certainly adds a lot more credibility to it being a single cohesive narrative between them, with most other zelda games filling in the space between. ...I dunno. Thanks for making this, it really hit my dopamine button just right.
Time travel is weird in Zelda. There has to be a deity or something that values Gorons over Zora based on the fact that in Oracle of Ages, Link was apparently destined to save the Goron chief, but not the Zora king, who is dead until Link goes back in time to give him a potion.
I really like this theory! I think it might be the best one I've heard so far on RUclips, and it certainly makes more sense to me than it all happened at the end of the timeline. However, I DO think you could equally argue that these TotK events took place just AFTER Skyward sword and argue that Zonai tech is based on the tech Hylia made and later, Sheikah tech is based on that. Either way, I totally agree this stuff happened early in the timeline.
Love the enthusiasm. The insanity of zelda theorists and the complex lore is what's so fun about the series. I don't get the pessimism after TOTK from fans who say the timeline is ruined or whatever. It feels like they gave up but I think it just means trying harder to dig through everything and make sense of it. I'm excited to see what comes next in the series. Personally, I think theres a possibility they might be building up to ending the cycle of rebirth. Maybe that's wishful thinking because the last two games made me ship Link and Zelda, and the only way I can see they properly being together is if the cycle ends. Buuuutt at the same time it's supposed to be and endless cycle and there's something really appealing about that.
I am only seeing this now, and have been loving learning about all the Legends of Zelda lore. This video is by far my favorite and most solid piece of explaining the overall stories and their connections to each other. Very good work, this will continue to be my head canon!!
Too many contradictions for it to be pre Skyward Sword. TOTK states that the founding Hyrule Castle which sealed Ganondorf was completely undamaged until the first Calamity (in both Ganondorf's in game character profile and the Hyrule Castle monument in the game), when Hyrule Castle is destroyed by Ganondorf in TP and OOT. Why is the castle nowhere to be seen during SS? TOTK Ganondorf cannot be the first when the Encyclopedia confirms OOT Ganondorf was the first. TOTK's founding shows Zonai Rauru standing around the Zonai-design Temple of TIme, but Hyrule Historia states Hylian Rauru was present at Hyrule's founding to build the Hylian-design Temple of Time. TOTK has the Gerudo sage and others shown in cutscenes have pointy ears, before the Gerudo evolved from round ears in OOT to pointy ears in BOTW?
I don't mean to be mean- but every time I hear someone say "I FIXED TOTK LORE" I just roll my eyes, because every time they ignore most of the lore stated in the game, multiple times, in every language, just to put in somewhere else in the timeline other than at the end for some reason. I saw someone tell to people who corrected them with actual stated information that their theory wasn't wrong, it was Nintendo who was wrong for putting the rito in the past. They're so delusional it's driving me crazy, why is it so hard to accept that TOTK is not in the past of the timeline in any way???
Because of the fandom's disagreement on the canon nature of the hyrule historia,I like to personally look at it as being (mostly) written down in universe, allowing certain things to be twisted. Like the world just forgot about OG ganondorf, as it was really long ago. It was established that Raaru was at the founding, building the temple of time, they just attributed it to the wrong Raaru, etc. The gerudo evolution theory is not hard fact. The other theory is that because they started listening to tge godess, their ears became pointy. In that same vein it could argued that their ears became round because they stopped listening. As to the castle... idk. It might've just been rebuilt a couple of times on the same spot. Because it never moved, people by the time of totk might assume it was never destroyed/ damaged? My defense for that is flimsy at best. Like in the original Japanese the logs are written from link's perspective, maybe the character data is too? That I don't know. The geography between games also isn't exactly consistent, so again idk. With any long running series you're bound to have cracks and retcons. Finding a theory that is perfect without any flaw is going to be impossible I think.
Wasn't the book everyone keeps quoting from published before TOTK was released? I'm confused as to where the problem lies. It isn't the Legend of Zelda. It's the Legends of Zelda. Multiple snippets that don't really tie together as one neat package. There is no true time line. Just a construct created to make sense of the jumble. Think of it as Mythology. There are different tellings of the same story. There is no right or wrong. There are kernels of truth wrapped in eons of exaggeration and misunderstood translations. I enjoy the different versions. Just like I enjoy the incongruity of the different Zelda theories. The story is allowed to change and be interpreted differently by anyone and everyone. That's what makes it fun.
At first I was skeptical when you suggested that TOTK’s past takes place before Skyward Sword, until I realized, despite that era having a Ganondorf, there was no Link or Master Sword. And we don’t really know if there was a Zelda either. So it actually makes perfect sense.
I saw a video recently about HOW the timeline came to be and though it was written and was not thrown together, the community and the fans are important in developing the series whether we think so or not. This kind of attitude and energy is what we need. I enjoyed every minute of this video as a Zelda fan and genuinely thank you. Keep doing what youre doing and everyone else needs to join in, its important
it would kinda make sense given how hyrule and every other nation in the zelda series never seems to advance. every super technology is always from some ancient past, the weapons of choice are always swords and spears and bows centuries or even millennia after laser weapons were made, the written and even drawn history of the zelda series dates back dozens of thousands of years and thats assuming every game including skyward sword takes place after the first battle with calamity 10,000 years before botw, every super weapon is thousands of years old forged either by gods or by lost ancient civilizations, "modern times" in zelda games always being medieval-esque fantasy. if not a timeline loop than certainly with all these events repeating and progress never being made and technological advancements only ever having been done by lost ancient civilizations and world ending threats coming one after another after another anywhere from a couple years to decades to centuries apart and we never evolve past using swords and bows as weapons, there is credence to a "loop" of some kind happening.
I accept this in my canon holy shit. Your enthusiasm alone is charismatic enough to convince me. This is real. ESPECIALLY the Sonia/Impa comparison. Omg.
22:38 This stone engraving was created independently without Nintendo, as the original version of the game used a very pixelated image of a real stone wall (I believe one from a Roman ruin). The company hired by Nintendo for the HD version had to create a new texture and the person responsible for this has confirmed that Nintendo was not involved. Source: ...youtube.../watch?v=8rKm43kUWYM
This theory is very similar to the one I created and have been peddling around different comment sections In mine i argued that the Zelda who time travels all the way back is actually interpreted by history to be Hylia herself, a blonde "goddess" who showed up one day to help protect the people and the triforce before vanishing suddenly And I also tried to ground Ganondorf I this way by explaining the Ganondorf we see get the stones and transforming into the Dark Demon king is Demise himself. Demise isn't controlling that past Ganondorf, that past Ganondorf WAS Demise before getting that power. And the Demise we see in Skyward is a manifestation of that locked away power
This is close to my own position on the story, at least regarding TOTK Gamondorf = Demise. I dont think that Zelda becoming Hylia makes as much sense unfortunately because its pretty clear Demise’s musings on Zelda compared to Hylia that she is a shadow of her former self and was absolutely an ascended being of sorts. I really doubt that Demise is supposed to be an unreliable narrator in regards to this description.
That would contradict how Demise described her. He felt it'd be an insult to Hylia to compare her to a "mere sack of flesh" that Zelda is in SS. He likened Hylia to a magnificent being beyond comprehension. That is definitely not BotW/TotK Zelda.
Given that the goddess statues talk to Link, I don’t think Zelda would be seen as Hylia. That was my first thought lol. She turned into a dragon and the sages watched it happen, the only history they give us in TotK is about the royal family, plus Zelda, who is a relative. And those are tablets deliberately floated into the sky by a royal family simp. Unless Zelda wanted them in the sky for Link to find, which would be cute but did she know he would be in the sky? Probably not, but she did intend to become a dragon so he’s gotta find her in the sky either way.
It's funny, I'd already kind of theorized that there was a time loop involved with Zelda going back and getting the events in motion, but you found a lot of details that I hadn't noticed! Very nice!
Yeah, the issue I am seeing with this is that the topography of Hyrule in the TotK past matches up pretty solidly with the topography of BotW and Future TotK, in a way that no other instances of Hyrule's topography does. The intermediate games move their topography around so much that you can't claim that the map of Hyrule changed that much only to go back.
There was a theory that I saw that covered the various maps and their reasoning/expaination was basically that they are different regions in a greater landmass (old and new hyrule) I probably did a really poor job explaining and I can’t remember the exact video but I think it was something like “Zelda maps explained” or something similar
that's not correct, the general layout of hyrule is pretty consistent in a general sense: castle in the northern-center, desert to the east, mountains to the north, forest and lake to the south... the only games that really don''t follow this are the four sword trilogy, but those were made by capcom. What the topography of botw and totk do is consolidate basically every place from every game that fits it in the same map, but none of the features outright contradict anything i believe besides with the concept of the timelines merging it kinda does make sense that the kingdom would sorta return to it's original true shape of sorts
@@kitsunekurisumusicI agree with u that it is Nintendo’s fault, but the fact is that the space is dead bc of it. And he’s making a good effort with this video
My challenge is the reasons why Rauru’s kingdom can’t have been before Skyward Sword, of which there are many. Lots of videos talk about it, I’ve talked about it on Reddit myself. But the bit about hiding the Triforce is cool idea. Sonya could also be Zelda’s great aunt of sorts. Rauru and Sonya don’t have to have had a child in order for her to be related to Zelda.
There's multiple things in this video. I talked about with myself as well like the subordinate to demise thing, not making any sense as in the previous game, it was literally stated that gain and gave up on reincarnation and the secret stone transformation looking very much like demise, very much shows that this ganondorf is just a reincarnation and also the line rarur say: at least the last time I checked or something along the length of that I don't follow your remember shows that he is not sure if he is the first king of hyrule rule or the first one to establish hyrule And there were so many other things that.we're sending this video that I do bunked myself just from what I know the other games because some of the things were just misunderstanding Lore or just making things up to fit his argument
@@ZorusSerif yeah!!! Like the Gerudo was not even existing yet in Skyward Sword... Impossible that they exist before... For me they're only 1 Ganondorf. Each time we see Ganondorf, it's the same one!!!!
@@GagnesterLOL just because we dont see them doesn't mean they don't exist??? you don't see any kokiri in twilight princess either but that doesn't mean they were just retconned out of the game or anything
@@Yamartim in twilight princess Kokiri forest is litterally in the game... Gerudo are not in twilight princess either, but they probably are somewhere in the game, just hidden so yeah your point is correct, but in skyward sword, it's different!!! it would be really really really surprising to have the confirmation that gerudo are existing in that period of times!!
SORRY FOR COMMENTING AGAIN WHEN I JUST DID BUT it also works with how the writers of Zelda WRITE ZELDA!!! They love having the deeper lore for the game hidden in the back ground!! They love leaving these bread crumbs and seeing who ends up finding and following them!!! My dude you ATE with this video!!!!
I love your theory/hypothesis but I personally believe that the Zoni came soon after Skyward Sword, but I think that this is an extremely good and well put together theory/hypothesis, well done!
Honestly after the last release, echoes of wisdom, i wouldn't be surprised if null created the interlopers to release him just like ganon used the miasma to create the monsters like the bokoblins and stalfos to free him as part of his army
I like the theory. Although I don't know what I think about totk past taking place before ss 🤔 It still feels distinctly after imo. Like the hylains seem very barbaric compared to any of the other people. Which would make sense if they just came from the sky to start over. existing , efore demises curse just rubs me the wrong way. But I don't see why (with a bit of altering). This theory couldn't work in reverse. Demises war happens, then the zonai tech is fashioned after the more basic laynayru tech. The sheikah eye symbology would also originate here and then be used by the zonai. As for the Zora and rito. The Zora evolved from the jelly fish people, then the rito split from their or have just always existed and migrated to hyrule (birds migrate all the time so this could be an option) plus we know the triforce was hidden away but NOT put in the Sacred realm until oot rauru builds his temple of time. So it could still be underground. Additionally, some people argue oot and totk Rauru can't both have built their temple around this time because it's too close together. To that, I argue. Uh, no. We know Rauru (oot) makes his temple of time in castle town. We also know that it has to be made sometime after the minish cap because there is a severe lack of a temple of time in a minish cap. Therefore, we can assume it hasn't been constructed yet. That leaves a few hundred years, which is more than enough time for Rauru to make his temple, it raise to the sky, then new rauru to build his temple of time. Now, I want to address a few other arguments I want to address. 1: Isn't it narratively repetitive to have 2 temples of times made? A: Temples are destroyed and rebuilt all the time in irl history. B: This franchise is literally about history inevitably repeating itself (not literally, of course) 2: why do the geruod have long ears? Does that mean it's actually after all the other games? Nope. Just means they recently split from the hylians, and currently, some still maintain pointed ears, but thanks to G-man, we see that trait beginning to fade away. I will admit there are a few solid points to your theory as well. Such as the goddess sword and impa looking just like Sonia. But those don't also have to only work one way. Perhaps sonia is a descendent of impa. Perhaps the goddess sword was still made in conjunction with the zonai. We dont know how long they have been vibing in the sky. Maybe they evolve from one of the races already in the sky. Like the remaining hylians. Who knows? Anyways, thanks for coming to my Ted talk. I'll probably be making a video about this at some point.
Omg finally a lore video that makes sense, best explanation I’ve heard so far! BUT I also wonder if the goddess Hylia is actually one of the daughters of Sonia and Rauru
This is it, everyone, the code has been cracked! Here I was thinking "Isn't it weird how they keep saying this is the story of the original founding of Hyrule, and then everyone keeps saying it must have been a re-founding?" And then here you are, swooping in with the most narratively satisfying explanation and pointing at pretty irrefutable evidence.
Finally! I have said to my partner the story reads/feels like a time loop to help connect everything together, and you’re the first one I’ve seen say the same thing! Got a subscribe from me, the energy was on point 👌
Even if somehow all of this were to be proven true, and that’s stretching to the breaking point, the actual story told to us in TotK was bad. Nothing can change that. No matter how many times the game makes us listen to “secret stones?!” There are little references to past games hidden all around BotW and totk, but none of them are actually part of the story. There is 1 thing I figured out that explains some things though. Like why almost no one recognizes Link or no one mention of the shrines or technology from BotW. What we’re playing in TotK is not the same timeline as BotW. Zelda went back in time and messed up timeline again. Or righted it. Either way she changed it
The Ritos in the TP HD carvings are not canon, the company that made the game already said they just took Zelda characters at random they found cool. Nintendo and the Zelda team did NOT approve this. Watch the Zeltik video about it.
Ahem ... Fi is called "FAI" in japanese. Fi is an adaptation for english speakers so they understand how to pronounce it ... but english speakers suddenly decided to play it romance language.
I just can't reconcile the fact that Hyrule seemingly existed before Skyward Sword, despite SS framing itself as pre-Hyrule history, leading up to its formation. How could Hylia have founded Hyrule as we were told, if Hyrule was actually founded by Rauru and Sonia thousands of years before that.
I don't think totk devs really cared about this lore making sense. The story and storytelling was such a letdown, that it would make sense to assume that they gave less of a damn for the lore. Making theories about Zelda is fine but totk was so bad that I just can't bring myself to make theories. None of the lore in totk makes sense. Yes we can make sense out of it by reaching and coping but I don't like doing that. We need Aonuma out, especially because of his dodgy comments regarding totk criticism.
@@dice5709 I don't agree at all. Other than the fact that I actually really like the storytelling, I don't think the timeline placement is that hard to figure out, you just need to stop seeing the Hyrule Hystoria timeline as objective fact. I just don't agree with this particular theory that TotK shows us a pre-Skyward Sword Hyrule
@@TheHaddonfieldRegistry I remember the devs actually confirming their own timeline. So yeah we have to go by their timeline. Also...what is so good about the storytelling? I can't seem to find anything good in it.
we were never told hylia fouded hyrule, just that hyrule was founded in the era of hylia also the surface in skyward sword was never depicted as uninhabited, from the prologue of the game it has always been clear that land has had a lot of history, in every area there's ancient ruins that alude to a pretty advanced society that could make robots, huge structures, time travel technology...
The funny thing is that this sounds like the most off the cuff, unhinged speculation, yet masterworks came out recently and confirmed at least 60% of this.
28:55 how did i never notice the logo for TotK being a Ouroboros; if not in the form of this theory, I'm convinced the time loop is ment to connect to the absolute beginning of the lore
still confused bc sonia and raaru were "the first rulers of hyrule", but hylia established hyrule.. i still think that the past of raaru and sonia has to be a second "begginning of the timeline", where everything before was on large spiral/circle, and that past is directly above the past of skyward sword, hence all the parrrellelism. its all but stated that the reason the gerudo havent had a male gerudo since the time of raaru because gannondorf was in suspended animation, so bookending the timeline with raaru on one side and botw/totk on the other doesnt quite work. secret stones amplify your own innate power, so ganondorf's would only amplify the power of demise if it was innate to him, like say.. he was an incarnation of demise's hatred.
Eh, being that the timeline is all about legends being passed on, it wouldn't surprise me if over time things got exaggerated. Like originally it was Raaru and Sonia who created it in function of Hylia, who was still around, but over time it became just Hylia in the mind of the people. Especially if she was around after their death and more visible.
I don't think it was never stated that Hylia established hyrule, just that Hyrule was established during the era of Hylia Also what if the "gerudo male is born every 100 years" thing actually just started BECAUSE of post-demise ganondorf reincarnating and when he explicitly gave up on reincarnations (as said in botw) the gerudo stopped having male children as a whole As for the demise appearence thing, the red glowing hair and eyes could just be what raw "darkness power" looks like in the zelda universe in general
It's... not weird... it's canon... The katakan for Fi is ファイ, romanized as Fai and pronounced like Phai, which rhymes with with pi/sky/fly/why. It might be based on the Greek letter Phi (Φ), or the number it represents, which is the mathematical golden ratio: 1.618. The number stands for oneness and beauty, which seems apt for Fi. Perhaps you're being adamant just to increase engagement, in which case... well, here you go.
One minor nitpick that may or may not affect the zora/rito part of this: Evolution does not mean that one species turns into another, it’s two species diverging from a common ancestor. The original species can most certainly still exist at the same time indefinitely. [edit: totally badass concept btw, certainly seems plausible!]
![Analyzing ALL the Time Travel in Zelda [Legend of Zelda Theory]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/acv64b3p76w/mqdefault.jpg)
Do you think the Oocca are a hybrid of the Skyloftians and Rito that remained in the air 😳
Honestly it's so sad we didn't see everyone's favorite species the Oocaa in Tears of the Kingdom
@@guymry
I literally just started watching, and from what you said up to the 50 second mark I think that you might've had the same interpretation of the game that I did.
I will comment again when I finish watching, here's hoping my comments don't randomly get deleted.
Why would you say this? WHY would you say this?! I'm going to be haunted by this possibility in my sleep for the rest of my life now
The Rito cannot have existed in the child timeline. They evolved from Zora because of the flood.
@@suziebarfield1796 That's the common belief (in context), because the Rito showed up and the Zora vanished... or so they think.
There are still Fishmen in Wind Waker, now tell me, how exactly would you describe a Zora?
The Rito came back to the surface because with the world flooded, it was now easier to guard themselves from grounded threats. They could keep using their natural skills to aid in their own defense with nothing impeding their line of sight. Any monsters and raiders would be obvious to see trying to come to their island. But because they came back to the surface unseen by the other races.
Watching this video was like a friend explaining a conspiracy map that's tied together with string and thumbtacks, except the string is made of spaghetti and also we're both on meth
It’s so nice of you to take meth with your friend before listening to his conspiracy theory.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
That’s just this and FNaF’s whole thing at this point. XD
To be fair you can say that about the entire timeline
pepe silvia
In general, acknowledging Rito as a term for a peoples and not a species is key. That very easily removes many plot contradictions.
The Rito not being the WW Rito is like one of the easiest plotholes to explain. The WW ones were magically evolved zoras due to the flood. BotW Rito are just naturally occurring.
the fact that rito is just the japanese word for bird (tori) reversed makes this make even more sense
It would also make sense for the Zora to start evolving after the flood, freak out about it, try to do research on what's happening to them, find info about an ancient race of bird people blessed by the gods called Rito, and figure that must be what they are now and it was all just a blessing from the gods.
And zoras being "fish people" or "water people", in real life we give the same name to totally different species
@@amandaslough125 Honestly? There are claims that the Zora all evolved into Rito, and that there are no Zora in Wind Waker still living but like... There are fishmen you feed and get info from... Can you remind me of the description of a Zora?
It's baffling how every now and then someone comes along with a whole new take on the Zelda story that completely changes my perspective! Great work!
If I may, I want to run a theory that I've had in my head for a few years regarding Girahim. It should be noted that Girahim and Fi have the same aesthetic design. Diamond motifs, similar hair, the same eyes (when not in disguise).
Consider for a moment the Trident of Darkness as it appears in Four Swords Adventure. An all-black trident with a red gemstone, hidden away by the Gerudo in a pyramid. With the inscription that says that it will allow its wielder to "become the King of Darkness."
What if Girahim, Demise's living weapon, didn't merely fade away? What if Girahim still exists as Ganondorf's chosen weapons? Recall that while Fi only takes the form of the single blade, Girahim creates multiple blades. Sabers, daggers, a claymore... So why not a trident? One that Ganondorf's kin would seal away in the hopes that their rogue king would never find?
0 o 0 That actually seems like something a designer had hoped someone would notice
@@cartoonistanonymous And the Trident takes many different forms from game to game, Four Swords Adventure is the one game where it has the same colors as anything Girahim makes so it's not like this theory holds much weight. I just find it fascinating that this specific version of the Trident is the only one that holds any reverence or significance. Enough that it has its own prison, with its own inscription, detailing a very specific ability.
Though now that I'm thinking about it, Demise and his minions arose from beneath the earth, right? Isn't it a bit suspect that the Trident in the upcoming Echoes of Wisdom game suddenly has this heretofore unique ability to create rifts along the surface of Hyrule??? Perhaps Demise didn't come from beneath the *literal earth*, but through a rift?
If only his other signature weapons from games bared resemblance to lord Ghirahim
@@dannattack4211 Right? And even then, this ONE iteration of the Trident is the only time it looks like that. That said, I'd still like to see Girahim make a return in some capacity. If not as a spirit, then as a long-dormant weapon, mirroring the Master Sword like he did way back.
Come to think of it, the Death Sword from Twilight Princess is black with red inscription. And it's a popular headcanon that it was "Ganondorf's Sword", despite the lack of proof. However, it was imprisoned in the desert, just like the Four Swords Trident.
🤔🤔🤔
I like that
"This Ganondorf doesn't have a Ganon...!"
Bro, I had to put my crochet hook down and let that one sink in.
Well, I don't think that one's too big of a revelation. Ganon has always been the form Ganondorf is transformed into by the Triforce of Power. This Ganondorf never found the Triforce, so of course he wouldn't transform into Ganon.
He does, tho. Calamity Ganon and Dark Beast Ganon are Ganondorf's Ganon forms
@@Sarah_Hpersonally I see both of those more as Phantoms/ a manifestation of Ganondorf’s powers (aka the gloom/malice) than actual forms, since Ganondorfs doesn’t transform into them since in BOTW Ganondorf is still being held by Raru’s bind.
They’re basically like overpowered Gloom Ganons haha 😂
At least that’s ny point of view.
lol, what a wholesome scene you've painted.
But he does... Ganon represents a Pig... What is Calamity Ganon? Not a Goat 🐐
2 things:
1:how many bananas did you smoke before
2:why does this make so much sense?
I tried cooking bananas over a fire with some friends. the result was mediocre at best and just tasted like warm bananas.
A crippling fixation and undying passion in the face of pessimism is a drunk in and of itself
I like to think that this is what the game developers intended when they made totk, for us to literaly just start making up stuff for the sake of trying to create our own satisfying conclusions to something that seemed to reject us if we got ONE thing wrong
I mean. Does it make sense? It's being claimed that the totk ancient past with the zonai happens before demise as far as i can tell, which wouldn't make sense. Like at all
@@auraFireblood In what way does it not make sense? This is about as close to my personal theory on how this fits into the timeline as I've seen anyone get so far. I don't see a single thing that contradicts it, but if you've got one, I'm all ears. I just haven't been proven wrong yet, and I'm eager to be. In fact, there are notable pieces in here that fill in a few of the final holes in my personal theory.
@@JRook-00Curious, how do we explain the items from different games like the majoras's mask outfit and such? Also do you have an idea of where present TOTK would fit into the timeline?
This. This is my new Canon. I absolutely LOVE how you've connected all these points in a way that writes a cohesive story. I really REALLY like this video. Jaw was dropped when you said the dungeons were safe-havens for the other races. Good job man. Insane quality theory.
Same... I literally gasped
Sameeee, the way I got chills several times throughout this video! It'll be my new Canon from now on 😂
What makes it make even more sense - the dungeons are literally called Temples. A temple is a holy place of worship and is synonymous with the word Sanctuary. In other words, Hylia created a sanctuary in each major region for each major race.
So then why didn't Nintendo simply place it near the beginning instead of the very end? That's what I don't get
@@clouds-rb9xt Totk is after botw becuase the present events of totk take place after botw.
It's not like the timeline specifies that totk's past events take place right before botw, so maybe they also take place before other games.
THIS is the kind of batshit yet conceivable Zelda theorizing I’ve been missing the last few years. This rocks
I like this theory. The two princesses could have had their identities concealed to protect them. Zelda being sent off to become a priestess, and Impa working under Mineru.
The Zonai son eventually rising to become the hero during the first calamity
I just thought about this, but queen sonia must have already had kids before meeting Zelda, since shortly after she gets killed 😢
Further evidence that the past in totk predates skyward sword is that, while Zelda comes back from the future, link is not present to fight ganandorf which must mean that the reincarnation cycle hasn't yet started
I never thought about that, and Rauru didn't know the name Link... this makes too much sense
And the master sword doesnt exist yet either. U blew my mind.
I’ve seen some say that Rauru Carrie’s the spirit of the hero, could that be true?
@RoyalPhoenix991 what if the existence of the mastersword is a paradox. By sending it back in time Hylia was inspired to insure its creation. By sending it back it creates 2 masterswords but we simply only interacted with the one weve sent back
@dtk1981 Well technically there weren't two masterswords at the start of the game. When we first see dragon zelda flying around the sky island she doesn't have the master sword in her head. That only appears after link sends it back in time. So the original timeline has zelda still turn into a dragon regardless. So the link at the start would be the starting of the paradox. Shit gives me a headache, cause that would mean there's a version of link who never sent the sword back in the first place leading to another paradox. That would mean the MS was create by hylia of her own design with no inspirations
As someone who loves watching Zelda creators all over RUclips, I can confidently say that you are so underrated and I loved this video.
Getting so lazy and stale lately this guy is a real breath of fresh air
He wont be for long if he keeps this up lol he gonna have tha subs soon...great video and i aint even done yet
My favorite part of all Zelda speculation is that the game's writers have pretty much said they come up with the game first and worry about lore later, so it's entirely possible they could see these theories and just go "hey, that works" and give it ye olde canon stamp via references in future games. This ties things together quite nicely I think.
Exactly how I feel! 🎉
also, the castle was moved to cover the site at which gannon was being held as to not disturb the spell and break it the castles' whole purpose is to seal and protect Raurus spell
This is the first Zelda lore video where I went like “dang this guy cracked it!”
Probably because he doesn't sound like he's talking out of his ass (as much as he tries to downplay it as such). There is every indication that the three newest games are connected, and that they happen far from the other games in order to give the writers a buffer, this video is playing into that as intended, while other videos are obsessing over dumb things like "lInK iS aCtuAllY a StAlfOs gUys"
@@daniel8181agreed people like zeltik who is usually smart with the newer games it sounds like he is just saying random stuff but this dude sounds like he was actually doing research
@@carterbohren8253 There is a really interesting interview with aonuma and fujibayashi, where fujibayashi explained his approach to the "lore" as "like archaeology".
This approach makes people like myself MORE interested in the "lore" than before because it becomes a massive puzzle. Other youtubers seem to view the "lore" of zelda as a series of puzzles, each game completes a single puzzle that can sit next to a previous puzzle in a gallery. I think people like myself and this youtuber see the games as one massive puzzle that is only slightly more complete with each entry, revealing connections as more pieces are added. The point of view changes the reaction significantly, if each entry must be neatly tied up, when you see totk you say "This is incomplete! They did not finish the game!"
but when its only a handful of pieces inside a larger work, the conclusion is "Ah, I am that much closer to understanding"
Yaaaaaaaas. I feel like the lore in this game is so Beautifully vague and really fun to speculate about. It makes the entire franchise feel even MORE like plausible legends from the past, like we keep getting pieces of it, but never the full story. That's the most fun way to tell a story, I think. It keeps the mystery in tact while also paving the way for some really fun revelations. Good work my guy.
Totally. Zelda lore is kinda unique where it somehow manages to straddle the line between there being concrete answers a somehow creating a fertile bed for imaginative speculation that isn't just crazy, but might be legit. Almost like a puzzle that doesn't just fit together one way but it's not just chaos either. You can literally solve the "puzzle" a few different ways
@@zachhiggins1668 Exactly. And like... that's basically the fun of studying history anyway, since we can never truly Truly know what happened. And there's never really one answer, since every person's perspective can be so different. Like there's for sure a true version, but the fun part is reasoning and trying to figure out if it works! Then sometimes someone comes along with new evidence and it completely changes everything!
Loved it, only breadcrumb to offer is "The descriptions of the First Calamity line up scary well with descriptions of the War against Demise." In the first, we get what seems like an incarnation/priestess of Hylia and her Chosen Hero sealing away an Incarnation of Demise, alone save four divine beasts and an army of guardians. In the second, we have Hylia and her Chosen Hero sealing away an incarnation of Demise, ostensibly alone after having sent everyone to safety in the sky. They could very well be two differing but non-exclusionary accounts of the same event.
When all your peoples are safely evacuated, who's left to fight for you but machines?
I’ve been literally thinking about how annoyingly pessimistic Totk talk has become, so this has been super refreshing. 10/10
Yes totally refreshing!
Those people just jump on the hate bandwagon without really thinking
The eye symbol was clearly taken from the Zonai to the Shiekah and not the other way around. As Rauru actally HAS the third eye on his forehead that looks exactly like the symbol and it's very unlikely that he was so inspired by the sheikah that he just... grew a third eye
Wasn’t that what he said, that the shiekah eye was inspired by the zonai
This is legendary imo. This all connects so well, But maybe it's because I'm a big TOTK fan despite it's flaws. ( I think TOTK has so much creative potential that wasn't capitalized on, but it leaves so much room for brainstorming and imagination!)
I very much like the Sheikah and the royal family being sister families descended from Rauru and Sonia. I lends credence to the Idea that Hyrule was "restarted" more than once. Rauru's Hyrule was the first, was halted after the Wars between Hylia and Demise, only to be reinstated by Hylia-reincarnated Zelda, intentionally obscuring the Zonai into myth. Also, It's fitting that Hylia decided to be reincarnated into the bloodline of her most devoted priestess Sonia (presumably.)
I actually really liked this video. Like REALLY REALLY liked this video. More than the other high quality/production value theory videos because 1. This lore is just absolutelly insane 2. bro's just really happy bout it and that rubs off. Good job man, A+
2:22 just want to point out that in one of the new Echoes of Wisdom trailers, they specifically say that there are 2 different zora's, The River Zora and the Ocean Zora
Right but that can still be a monarch title basically boils down to river folk/person and ocean folk/person or a Zora
Thanks for being open to having fun with this lore. I can’t believe it took the algorithm a month to show me this vid, but better late than never. Subbed!
I love this idea. I agree with everything said here. I think the only thing I disagree with is the reason this video was made. People are burnt out of Totk lore and all that because all the trailers and hype leading up to totk made us believe it would have this grand story that would answer all these questions. We mostly got more questions. Totk lore is interesting, and this video is really really interesting and points out things we haven't seen before, but I don't think anyone can be blamed for being pessimistic about totk lore. This video mostly disregards the actual story presented to you by totk aside from some main points (zelda going back, ganondorf's actions, etc) and I think that's a good thing. totk's story needed wayyyyyyyy more fleshing out, and it's also the thinking of "but this is the story of the game, we should focus on that." you were willing to dive deeper and think outside the walls of the story to reach for some pretty believable stuff. goddess sword being zonai technology? bit of a fucking reach. when it's explained a little further? hm that makes sense...
all in all amazing video. I just wish totk had more in it to help push your ideas and less demon king? secret stone?
This is a better version of what I said in my comment. I loved the energy and passion in the video, but it's just not saving anything for me. I love theorizing and speculating, but only if it actually has an answer that is being worked up to. If no theory can be proven, or everything gets blown up every few games, what is the point? When every theory can be right, no one can be right, and then we're just sharing fanfic and head canon. Which is fun, but not the same thing as theory and prediction.
I 100% agree with this comment. No notes.
Glad to see new, fun and original takes on TOTK/lore. Also props for standing up against all the TOTK pessimism.
Wasn't expecting that one for sure. I'm skeptical about Demise sending TOTK Ganondorf as a minion. I mean, we clearly see in Skyward Sword that he despises his subordinates, as shown when he turns Ghirahim back into his demon sword. To me, Demise would clearly be worried of TOTK Ganondorf breaking away from his control and getting the Triforce for himself (which also matches TOTK Ganondorf's character better as well).
I still believe that TOTK past takes place eons after the timeline we know of and that Rauru and Sonia just created a new Hyrule.
Fun theory though.
What if demise hating his minions stems from the fact that the first one he ever had, TOTK Ganondorf, turned out to be so wilful and power-hungry, failing in his mission as a result
while i also made a theory video on what we see being a second founding. this video has way more supporting evidence on the contrary and makes way more sense
@@PlayPodOG There's a lot of speculation in that video, a lot more than any other theory i've seen on the matter.
I don't think of Ganondorf so much as Demise's subordinate as he is a lingering bit of Demise himself. Though the scemantics for how all of that works are really vague. My personal theory is that all other games take place in the timeline where Demise cursed the world with his hatred after losing the duel to Link, while BotW and TotK take place on the timeline where Link wished to the Goddesses to kill Demise, so they dropped a temple on him.
Especially when rauru says : at least I think I am
or something along those lines I forget the exact line of dialogue
but regardless, that shows that he is not sure if he is the first king of hyrule and so many people, including some of the youtubers that do Zelda for a living.missed that line
and also these 2 games have been breaking convention and doing new things, so not having a ganon would be one of them or having something equivalent to it like the ss power up & the dragon transformation
and also that power up looking very much like demise shows that ganondorf is a reincarnation
& in botw it's literally stated that he gave up on reincarnation & made the blights & such so he is most definitely a reincarnation of the hatred
Thank you, I feel like my go to theorists just gave up and didn't even try.
Your so right, many of them where like “Nah, there’s nothing here, just disappointment”.
@@Pajarocaro well yeah i mean gameplay wise the game was a dissapointment so it kind of bled over to lore
I think the problem is how clearly the devs communicated that they didn't care about continuity. It was so strongly negative that everyone was perfectly willing to believe that there was no effort in maintaining timeline consistency.
Actually, even though this theory is compelling and seems to line up with the facts, I'm not sure if it even is the intended truth, because it doesn't even seem like the team behind Tears really cares about writing at all.
The first impa and sonia looking so similar is INSANE, great work, great video
Unbelievably enough, this is the best and only way I've seen that feasibly connect totk/botw lore with the rest of the timeline; and what's more, I believe it!
In the last part of the video I was like "wait but what about Ganondorf beneath the castle", but the thing about gloom being different from malice really got me thinking. Well done!
the mural in castle town with the winged people is only in the remaster and not the original. the artist who created it said they just thought it would be cool and is not official lore. But the zelda team still could have taken it as canon and added onto it.
The thing about writing a story is that no one *ever* plans out the entire thing all at once. You start writing and the story takes its own shape. That's especially true for something like Zelda, which has nearly 40 years of history, each game written as its own contained story with lore that ties them together. So it honestly doesn't matter if adding those rito to castle town was just to look cool. It's still something that can and will have implications for the shape of the story going forward.
it's also noteworthy that the twilight princess remaster was developed very much alongside botw, there's lot's of very intentional seeming similarities between the botw ancient sheikah and the twili
yeah, it was literally brought up by one of the developers that that was just something they added in for fun because it looked nice. It was not lore relevant whatsoever
@@ZorusSerif I wasn't even a Japanese dude that did it. This was a foreign artist that was commissioned to make a design for these walls.
@@nworder4life oh then the zelda theories that have gone over it saying it was a Japanese artist were wrong then my bad it still doesn't matter lore wise tho as it was just something cool they added in for fun
22:30 I hate to break it to you, but Zeltik explained that these carvings weren’t sanctioned by Nintendo but some guy who wanted to make some cool art of without knowing the implications.
Small nitpick that doesn't really mess with the theory, but the “bird man” that was in the carvings in Twilight Princess was only there in the HD remaster. It wasn't put there by the game designers, just the people working on the remaster that didn't know the lore they were messing up by doing so
Saw your comment on a Monster Maze video, then found this half hour treasure. Excited to watch
7:33 that stained glass is the triforce eagle crest symbol specifically you can see the feet and wings of it
This is actually one of the best Zelda theories I've ever seen
The cool this is the time loop with slight variations, a new storyline can be created using new history and involing new races and characters for a fresh start
The production quality is so high its a crime that you don't have more views.
Fujibayashi: I like archaeology, and zelda fans like to make theories, so I made SS, BotW, and most especially TotK to play into that
Mid-zelda fans: THE LORE IS ABSOLUTELY RUINED, THERES LITERALLY NOTHING TO WORK WITH HERE, NOTHING IS EXPLAINED TO ME AND EVERYTHING IS ALSO PARADOXICALLY OVER-EXPLAINED, THE SERIES IS RUINED WHEN WILL AONUMA DIE?!
This guy, 12 coffees deep:
This is exactly what ive been waiting for from zelda youtubers. They wede doing this for botw, but because they got caught up in what people's opinions on the game were they didn't care to do this for totk. Everything made sense and i hope we can get things clarified in the official games.
I know right
Great video, love the effort in the presentation and editing. I never considered the Lanayru Sea being man-made! I love that idea
Ok, one thing I’m convinced of the idea of is that the ToTK temples were the places that Hylia used to protect the four races from demise, and that the Rito stayed up there, which is why we don’t see them in the games until Windwaker where they have evolved into bird people because they were in the sky for so long. That is genius
This is the kind of thing that I really doubt that Nintendo planned out but it lines up so well that they should just make it a thing now
As much as I like the ideas of this theory the interviews and story of TOTK just kimda proved to me that there was rarely any thought behind most story elements
something worth noting though is that even though the directors and producers that show up for interviews may not care that much, the artists that work on the elements of the games directly probably give all those little details a lot more thought and care that we give them credit for, have a look at the artbooks for botw and you'll see what i mean
The story seems to be purposely vague for us the fans to speculate. Kinda like what the souls game before elden ring did. The game is literred with alchemical symbolism, and Buddhist concepts that could be tied into a narrative outside of the Zelda canon
@@Descending-melodies. Elden Ring lore is still very vague. Elden Ring hypotheses are a thing as well.
I was dubious from the beginning when you mentioned the Interloper War being before Hyrule’s creation, but It was always weird to me how there ALWAYS seems to be something more ancient than the last thing. SS had things on the surface BEFORE the demon tribe and the springs and temples were created far before that. TOTK obviously had the Zonai, TP the Interloper War… but this really does seem plausible and make so much sense. (There are a few long shot things, but it all works. Omg.) and it’s such a unique idea and structuring of everything too, all predicated in the idea that there was a BEFORE to Hylia doing things
When the "official Zelda timeline" was first released, I immediately had the reaction of "Oh no. Please, the games were never meant to have a specific, established timeline, only a vague relation where a couple of them DEFINITELY take place before all the rest. You know, like Legends. This is going to validate the people who claimed everything was always intended this way from the beginning." And then totk came out and those same people complained about how it makes no sense in the timeline, despite it having as many contradictions as any pre-timeline entries. I started thinking that nothing would ever satisfy timeline purists and they just didn't want to be happy and I chose to not even try to justify any timeline besides botw and totk as their own little pocket story.
Now _I_ get to be the one saying "No, actually, it makes perfect sense in the timeline."
This is an amazing theory, and I’m near-thoroughly convinced. I’d been working on my own timeline, but I think I’ll have to change mine now. However, I have a few questions:
-if races like the gerudo already existed, what did the implication that groose would found the gerudo mean?
-what about the race in skyward sword that are clear ancestors to the zora, or the more ancient Gorons?
-how would the surface of the world still look so similar after dozens of mellennia, and a war that presumably ravaged the land?
-why did the skyloftians found a hyrule so similar to that from the flashbacks?
I don't agree with your overall theory/speculation, but I really do appreciate your goal here. Ever since even BotW, Zelda theorists of today have gotten lazier or less creative when it comes to theories compared to theories made pre-Hyrule Historia. Back then we would go wild with theories, but now it feels like theorists kinda just want everything spoonfed to them. It's such a shame considering how much content there is in both BotW and TotK. You'd think there'd be more theories about things like The Depths, but nope.
Back when people argued back and forth over whether a split timeline was possible. The ones who were against the split would come up with these crazy scenarios to try to create connections to the NES/SNES era games before TWW's flood story or in some sort of unflooded post-TWW world or whatever other ways they tried to deal with it all. And even for those of us that were in favor of the split, pretty much 99.99% of us never imagined the 3-way branching that eventually got published as canon and we were instead seeing much of the series as having retconned away the "Imprisoning War" connection out of OoT and imagining that event somehow coming about after FSA instead.
But yeah... The general attitude of many Zelda fans these days seems kinda burnt out on the whole discussion. We have the three branches spelled out for us and it's pretty much all set in stone the way it's been laid out for us there. (Maybe Nintendo has tried to tweak the exact placement of Oracles a couple times since this canon was first published though? But they've tried not to touch the overall sequencing of the first 20-25 years of games too much.) The official statements about BotW's placement really just gave us a soft reboot on the franchise, where we seem to be intended to make the assumption that all three branches experience their own different variations of each other's events in a different sequence from each other but when you jump forward however many tens of thousands of years (perhaps even some number of hundreds of thousands of years?) all the details fade to myths and it makes no tangible difference which order it all happened in and we can't tell the difference and don't need to be able to tell the difference which branch BotW is taking place on. TotK throws this "founding of the kingdom" story at us and I think that most fans at this point are fine with just shrugging it off as a "re-founding", taking it as being that one or more older versions of the kingdom have existed and fallen and gotten forgotten about before over all of the unimagineable number of years that we've skipped ahead. Some fans are even seeing the series canon as being softened down to just concepts and suggestions at this point. Maybe in some hypothetical "true" version of Hyrule that we'll never actually see, all of the previous games we've played are just stories that the bards in that Hyrule tell about the eras that are shrouded in myth. Historical accounts passed down through countless iterations of rewrites and embellishment as the torch gets passed down to each next generation of storytellers. Because "why not?" at this point, right?
It's been a while since I've enjoyed listening to a Zelda theory - Heck, a youtube video- so much. It was incredibly satisfying. I'm so glad this ended up in my feed.
I'd really like to commend your story-telling capabilities, and how fluid and well-thought out this presentation of information was. It was narratively fulfilling, and made a lot of connections I haven't heard anywhere else. This interpretation of the overall zelda timeline is fascinating- And the fact that BotW, TotK, and SS were apparently made by the same team is something I never even realized, but certainly adds a lot more credibility to it being a single cohesive narrative between them, with most other zelda games filling in the space between.
...I dunno. Thanks for making this, it really hit my dopamine button just right.
Him: “And what is more Zelda than a time loop!”
Me: * exasperated sigh * nothing
Time travel is weird in Zelda. There has to be a deity or something that values Gorons over Zora based on the fact that in Oracle of Ages, Link was apparently destined to save the Goron chief, but not the Zora king, who is dead until Link goes back in time to give him a potion.
I really like this theory! I think it might be the best one I've heard so far on RUclips, and it certainly makes more sense to me than it all happened at the end of the timeline. However, I DO think you could equally argue that these TotK events took place just AFTER Skyward sword and argue that Zonai tech is based on the tech Hylia made and later, Sheikah tech is based on that. Either way, I totally agree this stuff happened early in the timeline.
Love the enthusiasm.
The insanity of zelda theorists and the complex lore is what's so fun about the series. I don't get the pessimism after TOTK from fans who say the timeline is ruined or whatever. It feels like they gave up but I think it just means trying harder to dig through everything and make sense of it.
I'm excited to see what comes next in the series. Personally, I think theres a possibility they might be building up to ending the cycle of rebirth. Maybe that's wishful thinking because the last two games made me ship Link and Zelda, and the only way I can see they properly being together is if the cycle ends. Buuuutt at the same time it's supposed to be and endless cycle and there's something really appealing about that.
I am only seeing this now, and have been loving learning about all the Legends of Zelda lore. This video is by far my favorite and most solid piece of explaining the overall stories and their connections to each other. Very good work, this will continue to be my head canon!!
Too many contradictions for it to be pre Skyward Sword.
TOTK states that the founding Hyrule Castle which sealed Ganondorf was completely undamaged until the first Calamity (in both Ganondorf's in game character profile and the Hyrule Castle monument in the game), when Hyrule Castle is destroyed by Ganondorf in TP and OOT. Why is the castle nowhere to be seen during SS?
TOTK Ganondorf cannot be the first when the Encyclopedia confirms OOT Ganondorf was the first.
TOTK's founding shows Zonai Rauru standing around the Zonai-design Temple of TIme, but Hyrule Historia states Hylian Rauru was present at Hyrule's founding to build the Hylian-design Temple of Time.
TOTK has the Gerudo sage and others shown in cutscenes have pointy ears, before the Gerudo evolved from round ears in OOT to pointy ears in BOTW?
I don't mean to be mean- but every time I hear someone say "I FIXED TOTK LORE" I just roll my eyes, because every time they ignore most of the lore stated in the game, multiple times, in every language, just to put in somewhere else in the timeline other than at the end for some reason. I saw someone tell to people who corrected them with actual stated information that their theory wasn't wrong, it was Nintendo who was wrong for putting the rito in the past. They're so delusional it's driving me crazy, why is it so hard to accept that TOTK is not in the past of the timeline in any way???
@@saborougerey9270 my personal theory is that Rito are descendant to the skyloft bird lol
Because of the fandom's disagreement on the canon nature of the hyrule historia,I like to personally look at it as being (mostly) written down in universe, allowing certain things to be twisted. Like the world just forgot about OG ganondorf, as it was really long ago. It was established that Raaru was at the founding, building the temple of time, they just attributed it to the wrong Raaru, etc.
The gerudo evolution theory is not hard fact. The other theory is that because they started listening to tge godess, their ears became pointy. In that same vein it could argued that their ears became round because they stopped listening.
As to the castle... idk. It might've just been rebuilt a couple of times on the same spot. Because it never moved, people by the time of totk might assume it was never destroyed/ damaged? My defense for that is flimsy at best. Like in the original Japanese the logs are written from link's perspective, maybe the character data is too? That I don't know. The geography between games also isn't exactly consistent, so again idk.
With any long running series you're bound to have cracks and retcons. Finding a theory that is perfect without any flaw is going to be impossible I think.
@@R__creator yeah...no!!!
Wasn't the book everyone keeps quoting from published before TOTK was released? I'm confused as to where the problem lies. It isn't the Legend of Zelda. It's the Legends of Zelda. Multiple snippets that don't really tie together as one neat package. There is no true time line. Just a construct created to make sense of the jumble. Think of it as Mythology. There are different tellings of the same story. There is no right or wrong. There are kernels of truth wrapped in eons of exaggeration and misunderstood translations. I enjoy the different versions. Just like I enjoy the incongruity of the different Zelda theories. The story is allowed to change and be interpreted differently by anyone and everyone. That's what makes it fun.
I found someone who had the same thoughts that I did, but more fleshed out! You blew my mind further, and I applaud you for this!
At first I was skeptical when you suggested that TOTK’s past takes place before Skyward Sword, until I realized, despite that era having a Ganondorf, there was no Link or Master Sword. And we don’t really know if there was a Zelda either. So it actually makes perfect sense.
and what do you do about Gerudo???
But Rauru is the Link of that time and Sonia is the Zelda
But if ther's no master sword..
I saw a video recently about HOW the timeline came to be and though it was written and was not thrown together, the community and the fans are important in developing the series whether we think so or not. This kind of attitude and energy is what we need. I enjoyed every minute of this video as a Zelda fan and genuinely thank you. Keep doing what youre doing and everyone else needs to join in, its important
What you're suggesting is the entire zelda timeline is one gigantic timeloop
Right, because that would be the most insane LOZ suggestion
@@Sleepy_Muse i mean.... im not saying it's impossible just very unlikely
I'll do one worse. It's a loop made by hylia which contains a smaller loop made by demise. A double loop
it would kinda make sense given how hyrule and every other nation in the zelda series never seems to advance. every super technology is always from some ancient past, the weapons of choice are always swords and spears and bows centuries or even millennia after laser weapons were made, the written and even drawn history of the zelda series dates back dozens of thousands of years and thats assuming every game including skyward sword takes place after the first battle with calamity 10,000 years before botw, every super weapon is thousands of years old forged either by gods or by lost ancient civilizations, "modern times" in zelda games always being medieval-esque fantasy. if not a timeline loop than certainly with all these events repeating and progress never being made and technological advancements only ever having been done by lost ancient civilizations and world ending threats coming one after another after another anywhere from a couple years to decades to centuries apart and we never evolve past using swords and bows as weapons, there is credence to a "loop" of some kind happening.
@@ultimate_plebtime loops have always been a staple of zelda, not to mention the logo of TotK is an ouroboros
I accept this in my canon holy shit. Your enthusiasm alone is charismatic enough to convince me. This is real. ESPECIALLY the Sonia/Impa comparison. Omg.
22:38 This stone engraving was created independently without Nintendo, as the original version of the game used a very pixelated image of a real stone wall (I believe one from a Roman ruin). The company hired by Nintendo for the HD version had to create a new texture and the person responsible for this has confirmed that Nintendo was not involved. Source: ...youtube.../watch?v=8rKm43kUWYM
This was amazing. I can’t believe the production value of your videos. This is insane video. I hope the algorithm treats this video right!
This theory is very similar to the one I created and have been peddling around different comment sections
In mine i argued that the Zelda who time travels all the way back is actually interpreted by history to be Hylia herself, a blonde "goddess" who showed up one day to help protect the people and the triforce before vanishing suddenly
And I also tried to ground Ganondorf I this way by explaining the Ganondorf we see get the stones and transforming into the Dark Demon king is Demise himself. Demise isn't controlling that past Ganondorf, that past Ganondorf WAS Demise before getting that power. And the Demise we see in Skyward is a manifestation of that locked away power
This is close to my own position on the story, at least regarding TOTK Gamondorf = Demise.
I dont think that Zelda becoming Hylia makes as much sense unfortunately because its pretty clear Demise’s musings on Zelda compared to Hylia that she is a shadow of her former self and was absolutely an ascended being of sorts. I really doubt that Demise is supposed to be an unreliable narrator in regards to this description.
That would contradict how Demise described her. He felt it'd be an insult to Hylia to compare her to a "mere sack of flesh" that Zelda is in SS. He likened Hylia to a magnificent being beyond comprehension. That is definitely not BotW/TotK Zelda.
Given that the goddess statues talk to Link, I don’t think Zelda would be seen as Hylia. That was my first thought lol. She turned into a dragon and the sages watched it happen, the only history they give us in TotK is about the royal family, plus Zelda, who is a relative. And those are tablets deliberately floated into the sky by a royal family simp. Unless Zelda wanted them in the sky for Link to find, which would be cute but did she know he would be in the sky? Probably not, but she did intend to become a dragon so he’s gotta find her in the sky either way.
I made a similar theory as well
So basically “The Imprisoned” in SS is just a giant “Gloom Egg”. While the name could be a future reference to Totk Ganondorf/Demise as you put it.
It's funny, I'd already kind of theorized that there was a time loop involved with Zelda going back and getting the events in motion, but you found a lot of details that I hadn't noticed! Very nice!
How does the zelda monopoly fit into this
The map on the ground in the Forgotten Temple shows there WAS a structure in the past where now Hyrule Castle stands.
Yeah, the issue I am seeing with this is that the topography of Hyrule in the TotK past matches up pretty solidly with the topography of BotW and Future TotK, in a way that no other instances of Hyrule's topography does. The intermediate games move their topography around so much that you can't claim that the map of Hyrule changed that much only to go back.
There was a theory that I saw that covered the various maps and their reasoning/expaination was basically that they are different regions in a greater landmass (old and new hyrule)
I probably did a really poor job explaining and I can’t remember the exact video but I think it was something like “Zelda maps explained” or something similar
Have you seen how big the out of bounds areas in botw are? I think the games happen there
that's not correct, the general layout of hyrule is pretty consistent in a general sense: castle in the northern-center, desert to the east, mountains to the north, forest and lake to the south... the only games that really don''t follow this are the four sword trilogy, but those were made by capcom. What the topography of botw and totk do is consolidate basically every place from every game that fits it in the same map, but none of the features outright contradict anything i believe
besides with the concept of the timelines merging it kinda does make sense that the kingdom would sorta return to it's original true shape of sorts
Loved this! You deserve more subs and views! Just subbed!
You are so goated for this. Single handedly trying to bring back the Zelda lore youtube space. Lets goooo
@@kitsunekurisumusicI agree with u that it is Nintendo’s fault, but the fact is that the space is dead bc of it. And he’s making a good effort with this video
These pieces do fit together pretty nicely. Whether or not this gets confirmed sometime in our future, it’s a pretty solid headcanon.
My challenge is the reasons why Rauru’s kingdom can’t have been before Skyward Sword, of which there are many. Lots of videos talk about it, I’ve talked about it on Reddit myself. But the bit about hiding the Triforce is cool idea. Sonya could also be Zelda’s great aunt of sorts. Rauru and Sonya don’t have to have had a child in order for her to be related to Zelda.
There's multiple things in this video. I talked about with myself as well like the subordinate to demise thing, not making any sense as in the previous game, it was literally stated that gain and gave up on reincarnation
and the secret stone transformation looking very much like demise, very much shows that this ganondorf is just a reincarnation
and also the line rarur say: at least the last time I checked
or something along the length of that I don't follow your remember
shows that he is not sure if he is the first king of hyrule rule or the first one to establish hyrule
And there were so many other things that.we're sending this video that I do bunked myself just from what I know the other games
because some of the things were just misunderstanding Lore or just making things up to fit his argument
@@ZorusSerif yeah!!! Like the Gerudo was not even existing yet in Skyward Sword... Impossible that they exist before... For me they're only 1 Ganondorf. Each time we see Ganondorf, it's the same one!!!!
@@GagnesterLOL just because we dont see them doesn't mean they don't exist??? you don't see any kokiri in twilight princess either but that doesn't mean they were just retconned out of the game or anything
@@Yamartim in twilight princess Kokiri forest is litterally in the game...
Gerudo are not in twilight princess either, but they probably are somewhere in the game, just hidden so yeah your point is correct, but in skyward sword, it's different!!! it would be really really really surprising to have the confirmation that gerudo are existing in that period of times!!
Rauru founded the Kingdom of Hyrule and named it after Hylia.
SORRY FOR COMMENTING AGAIN WHEN I JUST DID BUT it also works with how the writers of Zelda WRITE ZELDA!!! They love having the deeper lore for the game hidden in the back ground!! They love leaving these bread crumbs and seeing who ends up finding and following them!!! My dude you ATE with this video!!!!
0:51 feels like the average English dub anime title these days
This guy is doing what game theory was supposed to do in the first place
The new trailer just canoized sea zora / freshwater zora
The goddess/master sword being a bootstraps paradox is a really fun idea!
Ok that Master Sword theory is legit dope and big brain... I never hear someone said that before
This makes sense to me I hope you agree
I love your theory/hypothesis but I personally believe that the Zoni came soon after Skyward Sword, but I think that this is an extremely good and well put together theory/hypothesis, well done!
Honestly after the last release, echoes of wisdom, i wouldn't be surprised if null created the interlopers to release him just like ganon used the miasma to create the monsters like the bokoblins and stalfos to free him as part of his army
I like the theory. Although I don't know what I think about totk past taking place before ss 🤔
It still feels distinctly after imo. Like the hylains seem very barbaric compared to any of the other people. Which would make sense if they just came from the sky to start over. existing , efore demises curse just rubs me the wrong way. But I don't see why (with a bit of altering). This theory couldn't work in reverse. Demises war happens, then the zonai tech is fashioned after the more basic laynayru tech. The sheikah eye symbology would also originate here and then be used by the zonai. As for the Zora and rito. The Zora evolved from the jelly fish people, then the rito split from their or have just always existed and migrated to hyrule (birds migrate all the time so this could be an option) plus we know the triforce was hidden away but NOT put in the Sacred realm until oot rauru builds his temple of time. So it could still be underground. Additionally, some people argue oot and totk Rauru can't both have built their temple around this time because it's too close together.
To that, I argue. Uh, no.
We know Rauru (oot) makes his temple of time in castle town. We also know that it has to be made sometime after the minish cap because there is a severe lack of a temple of time in a minish cap. Therefore, we can assume it hasn't been constructed yet. That leaves a few hundred years, which is more than enough time for Rauru to make his temple, it raise to the sky, then new rauru to build his temple of time.
Now, I want to address a few other arguments I want to address.
1: Isn't it narratively repetitive to have 2 temples of times made? A: Temples are destroyed and rebuilt all the time in irl history. B: This franchise is literally about history inevitably repeating itself (not literally, of course)
2: why do the geruod have long ears? Does that mean it's actually after all the other games?
Nope. Just means they recently split from the hylians, and currently, some still maintain pointed ears, but thanks to G-man, we see that trait beginning to fade away.
I will admit there are a few solid points to your theory as well. Such as the goddess sword and impa looking just like Sonia. But those don't also have to only work one way.
Perhaps sonia is a descendent of impa.
Perhaps the goddess sword was still made in conjunction with the zonai. We dont know how long they have been vibing in the sky. Maybe they evolve from one of the races already in the sky. Like the remaining hylians. Who knows?
Anyways, thanks for coming to my Ted talk. I'll probably be making a video about this at some point.
this was such a fun video !! usually theory videos like this one struggle to keep my attention but you were super engaging throughout! good job:)
I like the part where he talks about the Rito for a looooong time
Omg finally a lore video that makes sense, best explanation I’ve heard so far! BUT I also wonder if the goddess Hylia is actually one of the daughters of Sonia and Rauru
My new head canon it makes so much sence youve earned a subscriber
This is it, everyone, the code has been cracked! Here I was thinking "Isn't it weird how they keep saying this is the story of the original founding of Hyrule, and then everyone keeps saying it must have been a re-founding?" And then here you are, swooping in with the most narratively satisfying explanation and pointing at pretty irrefutable evidence.
I admire your passion, but I think you spent more time on this video then the writers did on tears story
Finally! I have said to my partner the story reads/feels like a time loop to help connect everything together, and you’re the first one I’ve seen say the same thing! Got a subscribe from me, the energy was on point 👌
Even if somehow all of this were to be proven true, and that’s stretching to the breaking point, the actual story told to us in TotK was bad. Nothing can change that. No matter how many times the game makes us listen to “secret stones?!”
There are little references to past games hidden all around BotW and totk, but none of them are actually part of the story.
There is 1 thing I figured out that explains some things though. Like why almost no one recognizes Link or no one mention of the shrines or technology from BotW. What we’re playing in TotK is not the same timeline as BotW. Zelda went back in time and messed up timeline again. Or righted it. Either way she changed it
thanks for getting the interlopers in there. this is the moment I knew i needed this.
The Ritos in the TP HD carvings are not canon, the company that made the game already said they just took Zelda characters at random they found cool. Nintendo and the Zelda team did NOT approve this. Watch the Zeltik video about it.
Dude. This is a great theory and a great video! I hope to see you do more of this kind of work
Ahem ... Fi is called "FAI" in japanese. Fi is an adaptation for english speakers so they understand how to pronounce it ... but english speakers suddenly decided to play it romance language.
Amazing video enjoyed it a lot new subscriber❤
I just can't reconcile the fact that Hyrule seemingly existed before Skyward Sword, despite SS framing itself as pre-Hyrule history, leading up to its formation. How could Hylia have founded Hyrule as we were told, if Hyrule was actually founded by Rauru and Sonia thousands of years before that.
I don't think totk devs really cared about this lore making sense. The story and storytelling was such a letdown, that it would make sense to assume that they gave less of a damn for the lore. Making theories about Zelda is fine but totk was so bad that I just can't bring myself to make theories. None of the lore in totk makes sense. Yes we can make sense out of it by reaching and coping but I don't like doing that. We need Aonuma out, especially because of his dodgy comments regarding totk criticism.
@@dice5709 I don't agree at all. Other than the fact that I actually really like the storytelling, I don't think the timeline placement is that hard to figure out, you just need to stop seeing the Hyrule Hystoria timeline as objective fact.
I just don't agree with this particular theory that TotK shows us a pre-Skyward Sword Hyrule
@@TheHaddonfieldRegistry I remember the devs actually confirming their own timeline. So yeah we have to go by their timeline. Also...what is so good about the storytelling? I can't seem to find anything good in it.
we were never told hylia fouded hyrule, just that hyrule was founded in the era of hylia
also the surface in skyward sword was never depicted as uninhabited, from the prologue of the game it has always been clear that land has had a lot of history, in every area there's ancient ruins that alude to a pretty advanced society that could make robots, huge structures, time travel technology...
The funny thing is that this sounds like the most off the cuff, unhinged speculation, yet masterworks came out recently and confirmed at least 60% of this.
🔥A lot went in to putting these ideas together wow!
Nicely done, and well presented bro
28:55 how did i never notice the logo for TotK being a Ouroboros; if not in the form of this theory, I'm convinced the time loop is ment to connect to the absolute beginning of the lore
still confused bc sonia and raaru were "the first rulers of hyrule", but hylia established hyrule.. i still think that the past of raaru and sonia has to be a second "begginning of the timeline", where everything before was on large spiral/circle, and that past is directly above the past of skyward sword, hence all the parrrellelism.
its all but stated that the reason the gerudo havent had a male gerudo since the time of raaru because gannondorf was in suspended animation, so bookending the timeline with raaru on one side and botw/totk on the other doesnt quite work.
secret stones amplify your own innate power, so ganondorf's would only amplify the power of demise if it was innate to him, like say.. he was an incarnation of demise's hatred.
Eh, being that the timeline is all about legends being passed on, it wouldn't surprise me if over time things got exaggerated. Like originally it was Raaru and Sonia who created it in function of Hylia, who was still around, but over time it became just Hylia in the mind of the people. Especially if she was around after their death and more visible.
I don't think it was never stated that Hylia established hyrule, just that Hyrule was established during the era of Hylia
Also what if the "gerudo male is born every 100 years" thing actually just started BECAUSE of post-demise ganondorf reincarnating and when he explicitly gave up on reincarnations (as said in botw) the gerudo stopped having male children as a whole
As for the demise appearence thing, the red glowing hair and eyes could just be what raw "darkness power" looks like in the zelda universe in general
@@Yamartim he only gave up on reincarnation when you beat calamity gannon to become dark beast gannon.
I really liked your enthusiasm and that you made sure to wear your clean green sweater for the video. Clearly you care. You got a new sub.
It's... not weird... it's canon... The katakan for Fi is ファイ, romanized as Fai and pronounced like Phai, which rhymes with with pi/sky/fly/why.
It might be based on the Greek letter Phi (Φ), or the number it represents, which is the mathematical golden ratio: 1.618. The number stands for oneness and beauty, which seems apt for Fi.
Perhaps you're being adamant just to increase engagement, in which case... well, here you go.
Nah I mentioned it in a few other comments too it was just a joke I was making that didn't land 🤣 it happens
One minor nitpick that may or may not affect the zora/rito part of this: Evolution does not mean that one species turns into another, it’s two species diverging from a common ancestor. The original species can most certainly still exist at the same time indefinitely.
[edit: totally badass concept btw, certainly seems plausible!]
I like the LOOOOOOOOORE!!!!!!