I went with the Goosebox, and could not be happier. I never want another fifth wheel hitch in the bed of my truck again. Have been using it for almost 6 years. I have the smoothest and quietest ride, and have had no problems with the air bags or the shock absorbers. It does take a little more time to hook up. I use a 5" adapter that puts the ball back away from the truck cab. The 5" also gives more room between the trailer and the tailgate. Ps. Airbags have been used by trucks for 40 years. I have about 8" bed rail clearance. Love the clear pickup bed. After having 5th. wheels for 40 years, this is the best investment we have ever made. Our Arctic Fox came with a Morride, and we sold it and the dealer put the Goosebox on. Good luck and keep on traveling.. Dave-R
I strongly considered the goosebox and the Gen-Y gooseneck hitch! At the end of the day it came down to two things. The airbag and shocks on the goosebox are just one more thing I would need to inspect and check that could fail one day! The other is having to figure out offset ball I would need to move the ball placement around in the truck. Since we already had a fully adjustable B&W fifth wheel hitch in the bed, the Gen-Y pinbox was the best solution for us!
The correct way to torque a through bolt with a nut is to torque the nut, not the bolt. The bolt has extra friction from where it passes through the holes that will affect the torque reading negatively (actual torque will be less than indicated on the wrench)
The bolts are through bolt connection with no rotational force on the shank! So it is acceptable to have the TQ wrench on the bolt or the nut! (If you have to have a back up wrench to keep the bolt from turning then it doesn't matter which side the TQ wrench is on)!
@@neilmac4730 I know this is a Gen Y install, but even my Reese Goosebox has the bolts going in from the outside just like in this video and the engineers at Reese also said to put torque wrench on the BOLT side and not on the nut. Big truck Big RV also confirmed this as well. He is doing it the correct way.
That's was the first thing I thought of when he went to torque the bolts I deal with on my job all the time. There are different applications for different things
I have a momentum 399th and I installed an Anderson ultimate 5th wheel with the locks for the retailer and have had 0 issues. I think it's a great setup and I can remove it from the bed of my truck in less than 5 minutes as it only weighs about 65 lbs. Have a safe one, happy travels!
Thanks for watching! Yes the guys with the Anderson hitch tend to have a little more clearance with the stock pin boxes due to the adapters you have to install on the pin box its self. If I were to do it all over again I would consider all components prior to purchasing anything to ensure I would not have this problem from day one!
@@Titanlessmatt yeah you need the lockout bars on there cause the plate is designed to move. I haven't had any issues so far. And also, no matter what system you use at the end of the day its about inspecting our rigs and making sure we're keeping our families and other drivers on the road safe. We can't be lazy and just hook up and go, especially for us towing the biggins. Safe travels to all!!
I’ve been a rv tech for 7 years and refuse to install the Anderson’s. I’ve installed about 300-400 hitches in trucks from 1991-2021. Anderson’s fail on big units like this and it can kill you. Type in Anderson 5th wheel hitch on google images and over half of the pictures are of them failing. Sounds like he’s on the exact right track with the gen y pin box.
I really learned when I used to have my fifth wheel toy hauler that I really need like a lease 9 inches of clearance The problem happened to a few of my friends
I'll tell YA when I was a RV mechanic was told to mind my own business and keep my mouth shut ,if I want a job,GODS TRUTH ,this issue has been around a looooog time im 72 started in rvs in 1972,love ya drive safe ,keep GLAMPING
I see this issue daily when we travel! It gets worse with the bigger/heavier campers! It comes down to fifthwheel hitch and pinbox combinations that make all the difference! For us we went with the Gen-Y pinbox because it was the only one that would give us more than we needed, then we could lower the fifthwheel hitch to dial in the ride height!
We have a 2500 HD Chevy Silverado factory wheels tires shirt bed. Purchased Sabre 5th wheel 40’ long had them install gen Y . Husbands been pulling equipment grader etc all his life with CDL’s . We just took our first camping trip and now have a damage bed because of clearance ! My Husband had a feeling and even mentioned the clearance looking short but they said at the place where we purchased it and bought the gen y when it was installed that it looked short 🤦♀️
You need at least 6 minimum and that would still hit on very steep driveways! We have 7.5 and it is fine! You need to make sure you don't raise it too much as you will be towing nose high and the rear will be lower and could drag the ground! With a short bed you need to be mindful of hitting your truck cab when making sharp turns!
Thanks for your video. We have a 2019 Ford 450, a 2021 GD Momentum 399TH, an OEM Reece hitch. A Moryde/Lippert pinbox. Tonneau cover that has been thrashed and we replaced once. We raised the hitch and thought that would do it. Nope, thrashed again. We called Moryde, they said call Lippert.👉🏻 👈🏻 They guy at Moryde basically said Ford raised the sides of the beds, nobody else got the memo so the standard clearances are off. We had 5-6 inches of clearance and it still scrapes. The side scraping makes it nearly impossible to pull the bed cover closed. We're full time so we need the back of our truck for storage. Glad you got yours resolved! We're still working it out.
Thanks for watching! Yes its true the bed sides are getting taller. There are alot of scenarios that could have fixed my problem as well as yours. Both the reese goosebox and the gen y gooseneck would work but it would require the 2 inch extended turnover ball from B&W. The stock mor-ryde does offer about 1.5 more inches than the stock lippert but for me that still would have not completely solved my problem. The Gen y pin box was the only one that would give me the clearance i needed. With out moving the fifth wheel hitch the pin box alone added 5 inches of bed rail clearance. So for us it went from 5 inches to 10 inches which was huge. i then dialed the fifth wheel hitch down until camper was level and we currently have 8 inches of bed rail clearance.
I have had my GenY Torsion Flex Boss for about 2 years now and it's amazing. It allows the truck and RV to act independently when hitting bumps and other stuff that causes lots of strong force to come into play between the 2. When I tow a John deer trailer with it I barely feel it compared to traditional hitch setups. And it has a lifetime warranty on the torsion arms and its components. Just the hitch and setup weighs just over 100 lbs so it's definitely not light. It's really heavy duty stuff. Lots of people ask me where I got it and how much it was. I'll say it's definitely not cheap. And get to talking about where it's from. Huge suporoter of GenY. Amazing products and amazing customer service. If you can afford it and want an amazingly smooth comfortable ride then you have to try GenY out. They know what they're doing. Heck they make trailer hitches that are rated up to 32,000 lbs. Try em out you won't be disappointed.
We love ours! We initially went to them to help solve our bedrail clearance issues, not only did the Gen-Y pinbox fix our clearance problems but the torsion system is amazing!
Not the case with all Gen-y hitches, they have messed me up twice and I had to pay restocking fee return shipping fee and a custom design fee for which I did not see anything that was custom and still did not work. FYI I think they just charged the custom fee so they could add no returns on custom hitches nothing was custom on hitch. I give them exactly what tongue weight was and first one flex down so much hit bed second one does not flex at all and is as ruff as ride as the factory I replaced with, my wife says this gen-y hitch rides even more ruff than the factory I took off so not everybody has had the same experience with gen-y hitch. I am sure they make some good hitches but not in my case.
Excellent video I have the same problem I've been driving truck for 34 years .... I have a monster 5th wheel like yours ...same type of setup I have a more ride hitch on the front of my trailer ...and a Anderson goose neck for the bed I still hit the bedrails and the tool boxes they're all wasted thousands of dollars have gotten down the drain... now I'll try your hitch the Gen. Y thank you very very much.... I gross out at over 31.000 thousand ..problem I have, I'm concerned on keeping the truck and trailer level and adjusting the airbags also... Please keep on trucking show us more videos... Be safe and have a great day
Thanks for watching! With the Gen Y we were able to gain good bed rail clearance as well as level our trailer. We no longer worry about hitting the bed rails, and the ride has been significantly improved!
We have a 2021 Grand Design 351m that had an original tongue of a Lippert Roto-plex pin box and BMW hitch. We had very little bed rail clearance just like you except 16K trailer weight. We switched to the MORryde Cushioned 5th wheel pin box and kept the BMW hitch. So far everything is working well. Great video.
On the 25K B&W Companion I just purchased and installed there is no setting to go "behind the axle" on a Ford. The two options are 3 inches in front or 1 inch in front of the axle. I'm running 1 inch in front for the extra tailgate clearance when hitching up.
My truck came with no tow prep so when I was deciding on if I was going to get the puck system or a B&W turn over ball system it came down to the adjustments in the fifth wheel hitch! With the puck system you are left with what you have only two adjustments! With the B&W turn over ball and the B&W companion that works with it you can actually go 4 inches fwd and 4 inches behind the axle for a total of 8 inches of adjustments! I made a video about each position and how it changed the weight on the truck! You can see it here ruclips.net/video/I16SxEQJfAA/видео.htmlsi=o3wSUzzDw8a8eILi
Ok thanks for the explanation. I have the factory fifth wheel and gooseneck prep, so if I was interested in the system you have, does that work with my factory gooseneck ball?
@@BrewCityRider I believe it only works if you have the B&W turn over ball system installed on the frame under the bed, this would be in place of your factory gooseneck ball!
I have the Gen-Y gooseneck version for our New Horizons and have no clearance issues. I back in at home downhill and no rubbing . I’m at 23k fully loaded the way I travel. I also have a Roll N Lock bed cover.
Thanks for watching! Since we have installed the Gen-Y pin box we have not had any clearance issues. I only wish i would have know about Gen-Y sooner i might have gone the gooseneck version route if i didn't already have so much money invested in the B&W.
@@PavingNewPaths I didn’t have a hitch and was looking at the Reese Goosebox but it didn’t have the weight capacity for our 5thwheel. It’s nice just having a gooseneck ball in the bed of my truck. Good luck and safe travels
I am getting a new Momentum 376ths when they get it ready and I am going with the Gen Y goose neck for the reason I like the setup and I still need to be able to Haul a slide in camper and pull a horse trailer when I am not pulling the fifth wheel. I wanted the easy way to do both and the more I watch videos like these I glad I made this choose.
The Gen-Y is a great choice. The gooseneck was an option, but since we already had the B&W fifth wheel hitch, going with the pin box model was the best choice for us.
Glad you didn’t go with a gooseneck. Camper frames are not designed with extra supports that the gooseneck needs. They are lot lower hookup point causes Leverage on camper frame. You can see the extra support on a flat bed gooseneck trailer and you will see what in mean with 😉 I got lucky with mine I have adjustable height on truck hitch and camper pin box.
Ours was also adjustable the fifth wheel plate can be adjusted from 15 1/2 inches to 18 1/4! The stock pinbox was also lowered to the lowest setting and that only gave us 5 1/2 inches of clearance! The problem comes from the drop frame design and the mounting position of the pinbox! The lippert rota-flex does not have any drop from the mounting point so it is very tight! If our camper came with the morryde we might have never had an issue! The Gen-Y gave us 10 inches of clearance and we could make adjustments on the pinbox and the fifth wheel to dial in the ride height!
@@PavingNewPaths gotcha on yeah mine has little more height adjustment limit on trailer then you have. As well as the new setup you installed is still far closer than a gooseneck would be to trailer pin box mounting point.
@@kevink4914 We went with the pinbox over the gooseneck because it allowed us to be able to adjust both components giving us so many combinations to dial it in! The gooseneck conversion besides the extra stress didn't add much clearance without having to go to B&W to get balls with an offset rise in them!
Thx PNP for an informative video of a problem many 5vers suffer from. I'm currently on my 3rd 5ver and have had seversl hitch and pinbox combinations including a Anderson Ultimate GN with 5th Airborne Sidewinder combo on my KZ 38' TH while going to remote boon dock sites on FS fireroads with no clearance issues. I currently have a 1T D'max 8' bed dually and Fuzion 40' TH with 4/20k# Reese Goose Box with 2 ball hitches 1 4" forward standard height and 2nd 8" rear of axle 3" higher which gives me 10" clearance of bed rsil to trlr over hang with air bag full on Goose Box for off road clearance. YMMV PS in 3 yrs of usage no air bag leaks in Goosebox but I also never experienced any with the 5th Airborne Reese hitch as well in 4+ years of boon docking on FS roads in the Sierras. Happy Camping PNP.
I tried it 2 inches forward, right over the axle and 2 inches behind, because I wanted to know! And for me any my trailer 2 inches behind was the best ride for both the trailer and truck!
Good choice with the Gen-Y. I installed the Gen-Y on my Solitude and then switched it to my 2022 Reflection. I hook it to a goose ball and I tell people the trailer gets the most benefit from the Gen-Y as it absorbs the vibration and the bounce. Good job with the video.
I read somewhere that the bed sides of the newer trucks are taller than in the past, this could mean the setups of hitches are too low. I personally think 5" is tight for the clearance between the bed rail and the RV.
We have the Reese M5 hitch and the LCI Flex Air + roto flex pin box. Ours was installed by our KZ dealer before we picked up the trailer. 2022 Durnago Gold and a 2022 F350 dully crew cab. I have 7 inches of clearance which makes the front of the trailer sit up 3 inches higher than the back. Not happy with that as it's 13' 6" originally and it's raised our clearance now to 13' 9". I may lower our hitch 2" as it's set to the highest holes. Bed rail clearance at this time is no issue. 41.5 foot trailer, GVWR of 16k
The Flex Air by lippert would have fixed out problems but I didn't want another component that required maintenance! Having the shock and the airbag means one day they will need to be replaced or could fail on me! This issue is most prevalent on the 20K and up drop frames! Yours being a 16K it has a different mounting point for the pin box and that mounting location is completely different than what happens when the frames go to the 20K models! If you drop it down to the lowest setting of 5 inches you are going to have clearance issues getting in and out of RV parks!
If your trailer is riding level just add lift blocks to ur trailer axles and raise your 5th wheel hitch in the bed of your truck to match. That’s what I did . Now I have plenty of clearance. By just raising your pin box the back of your trailer will loose clearance when and possibly drag when going in and out of driveway.
We put alot of time and research into this issue! Our stock setup we lowered the rota-flex pinbox to the lowest setting and Fifth wheel hitch was on the highest setting, this gave us only 5 inches of bed rail clearance! The problem is only a big deal on the 20K drop frame trailers with a lippert Rota-Flex pin box from the factory! It also depends on what year truck you have, pre 2017 you would be fine after 2017 all brands raised the bed rails by 2 inches! We cannot raise the trailer as it would put our A/C units taller than 13'6"! Our truck is a 2020 and that year Ford lowered the Superduty suspension by 2 inches, so we were towing nose down and had room to give to level the trailer as the back end was the highest pioint! The Gen-Y pinbox gave us 10 inches when installed and we were able to level the trailer by lowering the fifth wheel hitch. We now have 8 inches of bedrail clearance and all three A/C units are the same height, before the install the since we were nose down the rear A/C was the highest point on the camper!
You don’t want to run nose-high either. Or nose-low. Your tires, axles, pin box, hitch, and truck height all need to be coordinated so that you have both good clearance and run level.
We left it slightly nose high during the 1000 mile break in period as there is some settling of the pin box during this time. We have since adjusted it to run level and we still maintain 8 inches of clearance. When I say slightly nose high, It was one inch higher in the front than in the back, this is not visible to the eye and could only be verified by measuring the camper roof to the ground in the front and the back! Over 44 Feet I would still call that pretty level.
@@PavingNewPaths That is definitely level enough just don't buy a new truck. They are at least 3 inches taller bedrails than your current measurement. Mine sits at 58 inches tall, which required me to put a lift kit on the fifth wheel to be within 1 inch of level.
@@nickstorbakken9402 In 2020 the Ford lowered the superduty 2 inches over the 2017-2019 models! That was another intersting piece of info i learned when trying to sort out the best way to fix our problem.
All these new trucks sit way to high,,not sure what the manufactures are thinking. I install hitches at work all the time and always caution my customers about bed rail clearance. It's not just RV'S, some stock trailers using a gooseneck style hitch also get into bed sides. I personally have a 2004 Chevy 3500, Duramax 4 X 4 w/ dual rear wheels and a Western Hauler body. Yes it's pretty much a full time pull rig w/o a regular bed, but I have plenty of clearance !
Thanks for watching! Since about 2017 all manufacturers have been increasing the bed depth and its causing issues that I never thought i would have to deal with.
@@PavingNewPaths And keep in mind, as you change hitch and pin box locations to gain clearance to the bed rails,,,you want to try and keep the trailer level so as not to overload one axle and thus the tires causing blowouts. Just FYI
@@daboo7725 We were actually a little nose down before the upgrade. Now we have the trailer sitting level and still have 8 inches of bed rail clearance!
Yup, that's the real problem. My '19 F450 looks like a monster truck it so high. Yeah, I suppose it "looks cool", but people buying big duallys are generally doing that to haul, and they are so high that there are problems like this. Even my GN dump trailer, I have to be careful and it rides nose high because of the ridiculous truck height. The dump trailer I could fix easily by adding some height to it at the frame, the RV, I can't do that because it's already at max legal height (13'6").
Interesting. Our old truck was a 11 Sierra and had a prior installed hitch with rails. Our new truck a 16 F350 had the puck mounts and I had kept the old trucks 5er hitch. Bought the Ford/Reese adapter that puck mounts and allows old style Hitches with rails and pins to be mounted. The hitch has 3 crossbolt adjustments kinda similar to the pinbox. Originally in the Sierra it was in the middle and was just shy of bed rail level. In the F350 it was sticking just above bed rail level. Not to mention I have a Roll n Lock in the F350. The puck adapter raised it quite a bit so I had to drop the hitch down to the lowest settings on the cross bolts. It fits just under the path of the RnL Cover and I have ample clearance right now bed sides. I want to dump the old hitch and the adapter since together they are a monster to remove and install. In favor of a Resse/Ford direct pick style. But I fear this same clearance issue. I do think my pinbox has one more 'drop' cross bolts setting I could do. But not sure. For reference my Fuzion TH came with a MorRyde pinbox
If you truck is a 2016 model you are fine they didn't start making the bed rails taller on trucks until 2017 models! If it were me I would just get a B&W companion for your truck and be done with it! They are the best hitches out there, and will lock and unlock in almost any position or angle!
Back your truck under your hitch use your hydraulic floor jack with a piece of plywood and or pieces of 2x4 to support the jack. Unbolt, let the hitch down, pull out, put the new hitch on jack with same bracing, back under hitch, jack hitch up and reattach. I’ve done it a few times all by myself with no problems.
We thought about doing it that way but due to the torsion system and the extra weight on the front of the pinbox we decided it was probably easier to just pick it up and stab it! Especially since we had plenty of family around to help do the job!
I have the same issue with my '19 F-450 hauling my Jayco Seismic 4113 toy hauler (45' long, 20k). I'm running the Mor/Ryde rubber pin box, and using a Reese M5 27k hitch. I have plenty of adjustment to be able to go up, but the biggest problem I have is that the overall height of the camper is already at 13'6" at the front AC, so raising the front end isn't an option. I was thinking about putting the front AC in the garage, and getting a low profile unit for the front to give me a couple more inches of clearance, but I also have concerns about the tail dragging if I go any higher on the nose. I used to pull an older 31' Damon Escaper 5th wheel camper, which was definitely not designed to run behind a truck this high. The way I resolved the issue on that unit was to "flip" the axles, reinforce the suspension, and install the CRE3000 equalizers to give myself 7" of additional height at the trailer axles. That did the trick without having to run nose high. Again, not an option when I'm already at 13'6" on the Seismic... Big rig problems...
For us our truck is a 2020 and ford lowered them, so we were nose down. However with the lippert pin box and B&W I was at the max adjustment on both and still only had 5 inches. When I took my measurements a 1 inch increase in the front only dropped the rear 1/2 inch.
Our Curt hitch and Grand Design 336 RLS was fairly close at first. We had to move the 5th wheel hitch head up to last bolt holes. We also have a 2020 F350 6.7 dually.
Our B&W was on the highest setting, and the stock pin box was on the lowest setting. The new Gen Y pin box combined with my B&W gives me 5 inches of adjustability to dial my clearance and ride height in.
I'm sure its a nice set up but a 330g and a 397 TH are not the same class of RV! The problem is present on the drop frame models that come with the lippert rota flex pinbox from the factory!
I have a similar, but slightly different issue. We bought our setup truck and RV from the previous owner. He built out the F-250 to look really sweet, like an off-roading truck with big 37 inch tires, 2.5 inch lift in the front and AirLift 7500 air bags in the back. Problem is the RV isn't level, points up in the front. The metal gang box on the back of the hitch, where the 7-pin wire goes into the RV comes into contact with the bed rail if I turn too sharp. There are a lot of situations I should be able to back a Fifth Wheel in at 90 degrees, and I cannot, or I will tear up the bed rail.
Your level situation is hard to fix on a lifted truck! Most guys end up flipping the trailer axles from on top of the leaf springs to below to solve this issue but you have to be aware your total trailer height will change by about 3 inches! The back of your pinbox hitting the bed rails at tight turns will require you to figure out what pin box will work as you likely need a shorter one!
@@PavingNewPaths I had debated lifting the RV, it can handle the height. I can handle the height, Except for... the outdoor kitchen. Currently I'm the only one that can reach the outdoor sink to wash hands outside without a stool. So I'm not sure lifting the RV is a good idea. I may have to explore different pin box as you suggested.
Very similar issues! 19 F350 and 2011 Montana with the Moryde. Had to drop the pinbox a hole, and raise the 5th wheel higher. Still gotta watch the inside if I turn too tight! My understanding is that newer ford's have higher and thicker bed rails. 🤷♂️
Yes all trucks now have taller bed rails, the Fords are 1.5 inches taller. If i had the morryde I probably could have managed. You should look into the Gen-Y pin box we never worry about hitting and the suspension system is amazing.
@@PavingNewPaths definitely gonna look into it, but im canadian and exchange rates are horrible! We also just got a seasonal site, so might not need to replace it. We will see! Looks beefy for sure!
This is what the video is about! We were at the max adjustments on both the stock pinbox and the fifth wheel hitch to get 5 inches! The Gen-Y pinbox gave us 5 additiinal inches in the same position! We were then able to make adjustments to dial the trailer in and now have 7.5 inches of bed rail clearance!
It is all about bed clearance which can be obtained in multiple ways. Have you thought about if your adjusted your rotoflex down a notch. Just because they had 6 bolts doesn’t meant that is the reaquirment. As your raise the trailer you need to verify level and what level you good with being out of level. Trucks are taller which makes it tougher. Love my Goosebox.
The stock lippert rota flex only had 5 bolts per side and was on the lowest setting. Per lippert that is the required bolts to maintain a 20k rating for my frame and pinbox. In 2020 the superduty were lowered 2 inches compared to the 2017-2019 years. Because of this we were towing nose down prior to the install. The Gen-Y allowed us to get 8 inches of bed rail clearance and let us level the trailer!
You need 5-6 inches on a standard 5th wheel with a non-articulating pin. Goosneck and fake gooseneck (pinbox ads articulation) requires about 8-10 inches because the trailer can tilt farther than it can with a standard 5th wheel.
You really need 6-8 to be safe and the tilting has no affect on bed rail clearances! You either have space or you don't the amount of tilt you have doesn't matter because you will hit regardless of why type of hitch you have!
@@PavingNewPaths The allowable tilt built into the hitch determines the height needed for safety. Have you ever looked at a standard 5th wheel? There is no articulation side to side. The plate only articulates front to back for hooking up and unhooking the trailer. A gooseneck allows 15-30° difference in the articulation of the trailer vs the truck. As far as "tilting not having an effect on bedrail clearance", I can tell you have never driven anything with a trailer for a living. Multiple point and high articulation hitches are designed for uneven driving conditions. There is a reason that equipment trailers, flatbeds, and even cargo trailers are designed to be gooseneck or pintle hitch until over 30-40k gross weight when they then move to 5th wheel. Do up the math, on a 3 foot span (center of hitch to the outside of the bed rail) 5 inches only allows for a maximum of 13.89° of articulation which is suitable for a standard 5th wheel but not a hitch designed for 15-30°. 11 inches of hight at 3 feet is a 30.556° or just about maximum for a goosenecks articulation. Tilting very much does matter as it is allowable articulation in a given direction. This is why gooseneck is the preferred hitch for off-road heavy haul and uneven conditions. The truck and trailer can be in any combination of up to 30° without the hitch trying to straighten them up or pull apart. Stop thinking in a straight line. The trailer is subjected to tilting in multiple directions.
I have the Gen Y gooseneck on my DRV and I have a 2020 Ford 450 I also went with a taller ball in the bed of the truck to increase my clearance to 8". Truck and trailer are level have only towed about 200 miles with it. So far very happy main reason I went with this the mor ride pinbox I had on my old fifth wheel. In a tight level turn the backside of the pin box would get into the bed rails of the truck..
Thanks for watching! I never had that problem with the lippert rota-flex. Mine was always the top of the bed rails or the tailgate was smashing into the bottom of the camper. We didn't know that was a problem until we headed out west, from Florida to Arizona we were fine, once we headed north into Utah and beyond the RV park entraces got more challenging with angles and slopes.
I installed the Gen Y gooseneck on my camper. I have the b&w gooseneck ball. I actually use a weighsafe ball with mine. I love the ride of the Gen Y. Before I had a standard pin box and the Andersen hitch. Was a nice setup but it was a rough ride on rough roads.
Another great video. Glad you found a solution to your problem. Just joined the RV community with the purchase of a 2021 Montana High Country. Looking forward to creating memories with our family. Grateful to have your channel as a resource for our new adventures. Keep up the good work!
I know this seems dumb but why not hook the hitch to the pickup take the bolts out and drive forward so you don't have to use your back in a bad position. Than do the opposite with the new one.
We thought about doing that but the fifth wheel hitch will not hold the new pin box level. So then your left with a floor jack trying to level the new pinbox and because its not the same height you would have to use the rv jacks to raise and lower the rv to get the bolt holes to line up! For us that was to many moving parts when two men can safely lift this in to place and have more control over getting thr boly holes lined up!
Suggestion I always refer to is “the thumb up rule” for in between the bed rail and fifth wheel. I also put a 4-6’ level inside the camper on the floor to determine actual true ride level. Best way to determine weight distribution is to run through a scale to determine what you actually have over each axle…. To little on the steer axle and you float steer. Camper dealers who actually take the time to correctly setup a hitch will prevent customers from having to diy their hitch parts to determine the right setup. Also make sure you match pin boxes before swapping, I went through 3 pin boxes on a buddies fifth wheel and his mega cab setup before Lippert confirmed his trailer was fitted from the factory with an extended pin box (7” longer between center on pin locations) vs the ones he was originally sold. After installing the right pin box he did not need a slider hitch in his mega cab being he need 4” of extra pin distance vs the 7”.
Never heard 5-6 inches clearance. Anything I've read or heard always says 6 inches minimum. But to adjust accordingly to avoid clearance issues. Obviously 5 isn't working for you.
Thanks for watching! 5 inches is fine if you stay down south were everything is flat! We didn't know we had a problem until we got to Utah and the driveways became more challenging getting in and out of RV parks.
The problem with the new trucks is the beds sides are getting taller. On my 2001 truck I had 8” clearance. On my 2019 I have 4.5”. Same trailer and hitch. It’s all in the name of cooling in the front having a taller grille and the bedside are made to match the height ( for looks).
You mentioned a gooseneck conversion, glad you didn’t go that route. I am on my 4th 5th wheel and am no expert but was told by more than one that 5th wheel frames are not made to be pulled as a gooseneck! You change the geometry and stress points by pulling it lower. Makes sense to me!
That is true, it does change the geometry! However lippert has approved the reese goosebox for use on their frames! They have not yet approved the use of the Gen-Y gooseneck version!
You are so very correct on they are not designed for gooseneck. If you look at the design of a flat bed gooseneck you will see why. Totally different design then a camper hitch. Luckily I have the ability to adjust the height of fifth wheel hitch on the camper as well as truck hitch .
The problem is that all the new trucks are too tall and no one has enough clearance anymore. 20 years ago this was not a problem. There needs to be a minimum of 8 inches between the camper and bed rail or more but that is impossible with newer campers and trucks. I have been around RVs all of my life and helped my Dad set them up in the past for our own and other peoples rigs. It used to be that you could adjust the height of your camper to maintain clearance to your truck. When I was a kid years ago I helped my dad adjust the axles on our Holiday Ramble 5th wheel camper. It was a monster and you needed a dually to tow it. We adjusted the pin box and the supports that sat on top of the axle leaf springs. We raised the camper 4 inches above the axles higher up and adjusted the pin box down and the angle to shift the weight to level out the rig to the truck. We had 10 inches of space between the truck box rails and the bottom of the camper. it allowed the camper to clear and roll going though dips and ditches as well as climbing up over and onto roads and highways and in and out of drives into stations and parking lots. It seems manufacturers have forgotten the past or a new generation can't figure out simple issues.
At my dealership we aim for 6 inches of space between the bed rails and the unit, we also go through all options, and recommend the best set up per truck, we do not stream line anything. Ultimately it is up to the customer, but we do our due diligence so that this does not happen.
We had 5 1/2 inches and we had no problem down south where its relatively flat. It was not until we hit colorado we started having problems! We now have around 8 inches and no longer worry about hitting!
@@PavingNewPaths Im located in WI, and its also pretty flat here also lol. Bad thing is we can do our best on the service side of it all to get the customer want they need/want for their use. We do have alot that tend to go with the anderson style set up. We also deal alot with the turning point for those who have shortbeds. I'm glad to see you guys have solved your issue, this is why I surf youtube on these subjects time to time, helps us techs, help newer owners so they hopefully do not encounter these issues, or atleast educate at the very least so they are aware before the issue arises.
I,ve got a GEN-Y Executive Hitch on my Grand Design Reflection 5th wheel. Lots of trouble hooking up. If the camper and truck are not both level or on a different slope.If the front of your tow vehicle is raised higher than the wheels on the camper you,ll have one heck of a time getting the hitch to lock . The pin bearing plate has a slope to the front and prevents proper engaging with the locking jaw on my Reese hitch. I called Gen-Y to discuss the problem I,m experiencing, & they just blow me off. I sent them pictures of the pin sitting on top of the locking jaw , but they have yet to acknowledge a problem. Tows beautifully once you get it hitched up properly but I,m concerned that sometime I,m going to have unhitched in a camp site that is impossible to get hooked back up. My driveway is a prime example of the issue. Drive way has a slope up to the house and the my truck is on a level street when I hook up. Usually takes 5 or six or more tries get the camper to exactly the right height so the hitch will lock in place.If you have the trailer height too low it will simply dig into the hitch. Raise the trailer a bit to much & it will ride up on top of the locking devise. You also need have the truck & trailer perfectly straight in line. Come at it from an angle & you will not get it to connect. Design of the bearing plate needs to be redesigned so it will engage easier on my Reese hitch and GMC 2500 truck. But it sure does tow nice once your over the frustration of trying to get the darn thing to hook up. Good luck with yours.
This is why I kept my B&W fifth wheel hitch and did not go the gooseneck route. The B&W is the easiest hitch to hook up. No matter the angle or height I have never had a problem hitching or unhitching. You should look at getting one, it takes us 5 minutes to go from ready to hitch to ready to go down the road.
We are aware of that! the stock pinbox was on the lowest setting and the fifthwas on the highest setting and we still only had 5 inches of clearance! We explained this in the video that is why we changed the pinbox to gain the needed clearance on our truck!
if your not buying anything with an airbag because someone else said so , you need to try it yourself , airbags are great they last longer than the first gen of airbags and they give a great ride
I know the new pin pox is a great upgrade and especially worth it if you travel frequently or full time. For those who don't use your camper much and don't want to spend the money on a new pin box, I would just move the pin box down a set of holes to add the required clearance. I know this would only allow you to run 4 bolts per side instead of 5 and 5 are recommended for a GVWR over 18k. However a grade 8 bolt in this size has a shear rating of roughly 22k lbs per bolt (vs grade 5 @ 18k) . Your trailer frame will break before you sheared even 2 grade 8 bolts per side. In the video you can see how much the frame is flexing. If you were worried about the grade 8's you could go with a super alloy bolt for a shear of up to 38k lbs per bolt or stitch weld as well as bolt.
You can certainly do that, and it would work, but this problem only applies to specific Lippert drop frame models rated at 20K and up with a Lippert Rota flex pin box, when paired with a 2017 or newer truck from any brand! If you have already invested the money on the camper and the truck, why would you try to save money now on a $1500 part that was engineered to work!
If you had the B&W Companion did you make sure it was at the tallest setting? I had to move mine up when I went from an F150 to an F350 because of the bed clearance. I also to put taller shackles on the old trailer to level the trailer. My new trailer sits taller so I didn't have to make any adjustments and it came with the Rotoflex.
@@atvtinker01 The B&W was moved to the highest setting and the pinbox was on its lowest setting! This only gave us 5 1/2 inches of bedrail clearance! This issue only shows its self when your camper is built on a 20,000lbs or bigger lippert drop frame with a Rota-Flex pinbox installed when trying to use a 2017 or newer truck. If you have a 2016 or older truck you won't have this problem, In 2017 all the truck manufacturers increased the bed depth by about 2 inches. The key here is the drop frame models you can have a 18,000 or 20,000 lbs camper that is not a drop frame and have the rota-flex pinbox and never have an issue! Only the Grand Design M class are built on this frame, They now come with the Morryde pinbox which adds about 2 inches over the lippert rotaflex! The other ones I have found that have these issues are the Mobile Suites and the DRV brands and they now come with the Gen-Y from the factory!
@@PavingNewPaths I know one line of the Keystones have those dropped frames. Only reason I commented about the Companion was that in your video it didn't look like it was at the top setting. Of course the video could have given that perception due to the angle when panned it through the bed.
@@atvtinker01 In the begining before we installed the Gen-Y it was at the highest setting! After installing the Gen-Y the after measurements gave in the video was the middle height position for the B&W and it was left there for the 1000 mile break in period as there is some settling! After the break in period it did not settle as much as I expected so we are now on the lowest setting and have 8.5 inches of bed rail clearance and have had no issues in almost 8 months!
I have the flex air pin box with the air bag and I never had an issue with it. I can deflate the airbag if I have clearance isues on the height under wires and I can put air back in to adjust the clearance for my bed. Also if I load the rv too much I can put more air to make it ride smooth.
The flex air pin box was my choice until I found the Gen-Y pin box. I didn't want something else I would have to remember to check or maintain. Also I was afraid if the airbag was to fail I would not be able to move with out repairing!
The fifth wheel hitch is not the issue! The size of the bed rails are! We don't need a slider as we are not hitting the cab we are hitting the top of the bedrails! This only is a problem with 20k trailers built on a drop frame that come from the factory with a lippert rota-flex pinbox when used with a 2017 or newer truck from any brand! There are many 20k trailers out there not built on a drop frame and that changes everything as far as clearances go the mounting point of the pinbox is different and you would have plenty of clearance! If ours came with the morryde pinbox we would never had to change either as it is 2 inches taller!
@@PavingNewPaths First off there is not need to get wound up. I understand what you are saying and agree with you 100% but there is something you are clearly missing here. The reason I said this hitch specifically is because it eliminates your issues all together and while getting the added Benefits of the sliding hitch. I wish I could show you a pic of the height of the plate in my truck because this was a major concern for me as I have a short bed Mega cab truck. This was the answer for both the height and also it getting into the cab corners and I’ll tell you it works wonders. I’m glad you got yours worked out. Question how much was it to swap the pin box out? Thanks 🙏
Your Demco is the same height as my B&W they are adjustable from 15 1/2 inches to 18 1/4 inches! There is no height gained by changing the hitch! This is a very specific issue caused by a certain frame and pinbox combinations! If you don't have the issue be thankful, but this video was made for those who do! If your RV is 20k and you don't have clearance issues its because you likely don't have a drop frame model, and if it is a drop frame your's came with the morryde pinbox or a non cushioning standard pinbox! The reason we went with the Gen-Y over all other choices is because when installed in the same position as the stock pinbox it added 5 inches of extra clearance giving me options on ride height adjustments! All other choices only gave me 2 inches max! I was then able to dial the camper in to level while still having 8 inches of clearance! The pinbox cost me around $1300, but we sold the stock pinbox to help with cost so a little less than 1k to fix this!
The pin box on the trailer was lowered to the lowest setting and the fifth wheel hitch in the truck was on the highest setting! This only gave us 5 1/2 inches of bed rail clearance! There was more to this issue than just a simple bolt adjustment! That is why we made the video to show how we addressed the problem, the main issue that causes this is what frame the camper is built on and what stock pin box the manufacturer puts on the RV! Grand Design had a year or two when they put the Lippert-Rota Flex pin box instead of the Morryde Pin Box and that reduced your possible clearance! Then came 2017 when all trucks began having bed sides that were 2 inches taller further reducing your clearance!
I had to adjust both my trucks and trailers to make it level. Now I have plenty of distance between the bed and overhang to accommodate my tool box. Which means I don't have to remove it.. glad u got it button upped... Looks like an awesome set up!!
I was editing the first response to include more details on the issues when you replied! Honestly, we knew it was tight and didn't think we had a problem until we left flat ground! We went from Texas to Florida back to Texas through New Mexico, and Arizona! When we got to Utah, we started running into big angle changes when entering RV parks off the highway and it became clear we needed more clearance! Colorado and Wyoming were just as bad we had to watch angles when entering and leaving parks and be very careful! So, after some research the best choice to solve all of our problems was to go with the Gen-Y because it allowed me more static clearance than I needed, and I could use the mounting position and the Fifth Wheel plate to dial in the ride height!
I had the Gen-Y Gooseneck hitch installed on my new Alliance Valor 40v13 before I ever picked it up. I have a 2021 3500 Ram longbox Duelly with the Ram Air rear suspension and the truck and trailer are flat and rides like a dream 👍😉
Before Gen-Y we had minimal bed rail clearance, the trailer was towing nose down and the ride was horrible. We originally looked at Gen-Y to solve our bed rail clearance issues and to level the trailer. The ride however compared to a stock pinbox is a night and day difference!
@@mfaulguy I am using the B&W Gooseneck set. It comes with the safety chain anchors and the ball with the release handle. Simple and cleaner to use than anything else on the market. Flip the handle and lift out the ball. You don't have to touch the greasy ball to release it 👍
The fundamental problem here lies with the truck manufacturers. I own a 2019 F450 and tow a Grand Design 351M with it using a Reese goosebox. There's just no way to find more clearance because the truck is too high. There's no way to lower the truck, so all you can do is raise the pin (which I have, but puts me nose high) or raise the trailer (which I have as well, but the Momentum is already almost at max legal height, any more and you'll be over 13'6".). The answer is to lower the trucks back down or, possibly, lower the sides on the bed. There is absolutely no towing purpose to be up in the air so high, it's an "all show, no go" feature that makes a F450 "look cool" while harming it's biggest purpose in life, towing a GN or 5'er. Yes, you can "fix" it somewhat through pin boxes and adjustments; but the real fix is knocking a few in off the ride height on the truck.
Yes, the main problem is the bedrails are getting too high. The 2020 and up Superduty's are now lower than previous models. Not only did I not have enough clearance, I was also nose down when towing. The Gen-Y pin box allowed me to gain my clearance and level my trailer. I was also worried about trying to gain clearance and causing my rig to be nose high, that is why I choose the pin box version over the gooseneck version. This way I can make adjustments to my pin box as well as the B&W fifth wheel hitch to dial in the ride height and clearance.
@@PavingNewPaths Truck too high and bed rails too high, both working against us. At least you were nose low, that means you had wiggle room. I'm nose high and have nothing left, can't lower the truck, can't raise the trailer, and can't adjust the pin box because I'm already at "too close" clearance. :(
Absolutely...I just traded my 2018 f350 4x4 for a 2022 f450....the bed height is about 2 inches lower on the 450 which has made a huge difference with accessibility in the bed (I'm 6'3") as compared to the 2018
Some people are adding lower or shorter spring plates in the rear to lower the truck. I have a 2019 F350 and it sits way to high. Would be cool if they offered factory bed rails that folded down or were lower.
@@darren6790 Do you have any links? I've looked high and low for a way to lower my f450. Everyone I talk to says it's not possible without major surgery
Seems to me having the emergency brake release pointed towards the ground is not the best place to have it mounted. I would have mounted it so that it points to the back of the truck.
@Paving New Paths I agree it is cheaper and I'm happy you found a solution your pleased with. I tried Gen y and was ok with it but am much happier with my companion on my flat bed. Happy camping be safe.
We looked at flatbed conversions because we were sure the Bed was going to get damaged before we were able to get this resolved! In the end since we travel fulltime we really needed our bed to use as a trunk when we are not towing the RV!
You’re a VERY patient man reading through the comments. 🤣 My 5th rides high in the front causing tire wear and other problems. Looking for solutions myself. No manufacture can guarantee they can fix the problem with their hitch/pinbox solution. this is a problem for the industry right now. Good post
In this case we knew them all it was all friends and family that we were camping with! There was however a few guys that we didn't know that came over and wanted to help!
The bolts are through bolt connection with no rotational force on the shank! So it is acceptable to have the TQ wrench on the bolt or the nut! (If you have to have a back up wrench to keep the bolt from turning then it doesn't matter which side the TQ wrench is on)!
When you have no rotational friction on the bolt it does not matter if the TQ wrench goes on the nut or the bolt! ( If you have to put a back up wrench on it to keep it from spinning it does not matter)
Have the same issue with our 2020 Solitude 377mbs. The previous owner scrubbed the underside of the trailer pretty hard. Great video, I'll be looking into that hitch for sure. Thanks for the content.
I would love a flat top pete! However the way we travel and plan our adventures we need a vehicle that will pull our camper and hold the family of soon to be 6 on our day trips exploring!
We had problems getting in and out of RV parks because we didn't have enough bed rail clearance! This videos shows how we fixed our issues by installing a Gen-Y pinbox!
The main problem is the frame! On camper built on the 20,000lb and up drop frames the way the pin box mount is assembled it is tucked really tight to the frame! It also depends on what pin box was used! For a few years grand design had a mixture either the lippert Rota-flex or Morryde pinbox! The ones with the Morryde would not have the issue but the lipperts did!
Just a suggestion a trailer saver hitch might help with the roughness and maybe some rear air bags on the truck could help smooth things out. Just an idea
We have airbags on the truck! The camper did not ride rough with the stock pinbox! A hitch change would not fix this as all brands have roughly the same adjustable heights 15 1/2 to 18 1/2 Inches off the bed floor! We needed bed rail clearance and it was only solved by changing the pinbox! We went with the Gen-Y because it offered the biggest gain and most adjustments! The torsion system was just a bonus!
Your pin box needs to be lowered, that will raise your camper up away from the bed. 👍🏼 I had the same problem. The tech at the dealership said you should have at least 6 inches up to 7.
The pin box was dropped to the lowest setting and my hitch was raised to the highest setting! This only gave us 5 inches of bedrail clearance! The Gen-Y solved our issues as we now have 8 inches of clearance and were able to level the trailer.
@@PavingNewPaths after posting my comment I thought, with all of research and effort you’re putting in to this situation, you probably already lowered the pin box . Excellent content though, I believe it we’ll be helpful to others. 👍🏼
@@xaviermartinez6642 Thank you for understanding that there was more to this problem than just adjusting a position! It's a very limited number of campers built on 20K lippert drop frames that come from the factory with a Lippert Rota Flex Pin box. When used with a 2017 or new truck from any brand you will likely have issues. Most of the manufacturers addressed this issue by switching to a morryde pinbox which gives about 2 more inches of clearance! Overall it is a very specific combination that but I meet them every day in campgrounds and am able to share my solution with them!
It was a very easy swap, it was a lot easier eirh all the help I had from family members! This worked best for us because of all the available adjustment configurations you can achieve now for ride height and bed rail clearance! It had been almost a year now and we no longer worry about bed rail clearance issues!
Easy swap just don't underestimate the weight of the pinbox, any pinbox, but the more complex pinbox the more weight. Not to mention the sharp corners on the RV frame mounting flanges. Hurts to hit your head.....ask me how I know. 😂
That was a wise move going to a Gen Y Pin Box rather than a Morryde Pin Box.Have a DRV scaled @ 21k Morryde has way to much movement.Chucks back and forth up to 1 1/2" under moderate acceleration or braking./Contacted Morryde and talked to their field engineer, they had me pull it apart to see what # was on the rubber spring ,it was a #6 which is their highest rated spring rated for 18k.I asked them why they would put it on a trailer rated for over 21k ,they didn't know what to say. You can actually the movement on the teflon bushing.Next stop Gen Y Pion Box!
Thanks for watching! I only considered the mor-ryde because I took measurments on another momentum and the difference would helped, but not eliminated the problem.
Might look into a Western Hauler set up or one like it. Never worry about bed rail clearance again AND plenty of storage compartments. Would love one for our new truck but can't afford it just yet.
i always worried about it and asked many salesman to them saying you "wouldn't have a problem". the other thing I noticed was that some pin boxes are longer then others and can have bed side clearance issues. i have had to lower the tailgate on some crossings for clearance. After taking out my tailgate i fixed my issue for good by going to a western hauler bed and have loved it ever since.
We didnt have issues the first 6 months but its because we stayed on flat ground in Florida and Texas. Once we started heading out west our problem became a big deal. I looked at the flat bed option but was only going down that road if i ended up destroying my bed.
Hi I pull RVs as a career, the 5th wheel plate in the bed should be at its highest level and lowest on the pin box as well. I have a 2007 Dodge Ram 3500, it’s super low and had previous issues as well until I did all what I said and problems solved.
Our fifthwheel was on the highest setting and the pin box was moved to the lowest setting! We still only had 5 1/2 inches. This issue only applies to 20k and up drop frame campers with a stock lippert pin box when hooked to a 2017 or newer truck! In 2017 they made the bed rails 2 inches taller!
Thanks, this has been covered several times if you have a through bolted connection with no rotational friction then it doesn't matter what side the TQ wrench is on!
Thanks for watching! Good catch, the reason we left it down was the break away cable was a little short. We have already replaced the break away cable with a longer one and adjusted the switch to face forward.
So far it has been great. We were after bed rail clearance when we got it. The torsion suspension system has been a great added benefit. If you get one you need to go scale your truck and then your trailer, and know your pin weight. Thats how they decide what model you need.
I have always heard that you must have the hitch over the axle or 1" in front of the axle. This is because when there is a bump in the road, and the pin is behind the axle, weight is taken off the front axle. Also when baking, the front of the axle setting is better to swing the trailer into the correct position. However I think that 1-3" will not make much of a difference. Your CAT scale measurements show that there is only about 25 pounds (front axle weight) difference between 1" forward of the axle and directly over the axle, so I guess that is not a huge deal with your truck and trailer.
Yes! I have towed in all the positions to see how the ride changed! For us anything forward of the axle is rough over the axle is ok and 2 inches behind is the smoothest ride for the truck and the trailer! We did the other video testing how the weight changes because we were intersted in knowing how moving it actually affects the weight!
It had nothing to do with the fact that it is 4x4! It had to do with the stock pinbox on the RV and the fact that the bedsides are now 2 inches tall on 2017 up model trucks!
Thank you! I also did a video about where the fifth wheel plate is according to the rear axle and it doesn't matter each inch is only 25lbs transfered between axles! You can check it out here! ruclips.net/video/I16SxEQJfAA/видео.html
Fifth wheel was on the highest setting and the pin box was on the lowest setting to get 5 inches! We purchased the Gen-Y because it solved our clearance issues and allowed us to level the trailer!
You need 6-7 inches with 2017+ fords. If it tilts the trailer to far up then you need new springs for the trailer to lift it and make it level add shocks too. Or ditch the bed for a hauler setup and no more clearance issues.
Thanks! for watching! We were a little nose down prior to changing out the pin box. We have now been able to level the trailer by making adjustments to the B&W and still have 8 inches of clearance.
Problem is, you can't lift up these trailers without going over max legal height (13'6"). There's simply nowhere to go, they are all pretty much right at the "limit" already (that limit is established by bridge clearances set for tractor trailers). The right answer is "lower the truck", however, for some vehicles (like mine, F450) there's no easy way to do that.
@@michaelfink2070 Tallest part is the a/c and I took those damn things off and replaced them with multi unit ductless mini split. I know that's not practical for everyone. Have you measured it? Most units are 13'4 and even when we did the leaf swap with the reg ac it came out 13'6.
@@Titanlessmatt I've not measured it yet; I was thinking about heading into one of the truck scales that offers a measurement, not sure I'd get a better number using a tape measure myself, would like to see what it is loaded, ready to travel, hook up, air in the Goosebox, air in the bags for the truck. I'm curious enough that I'll probably go to a truck height one of these days, but haven't done it yet. I'm going to swap my tires up to 85's, that'll give me another 1/2 an in, and I've already done the swap to an SRE4000, which is supposedly another 1/2" or so. Just wish I could bring the truck down by about 3". That would be perfect. And I could, if I was willing to pay 10K for a Kelderman full air suspension. I'm considering it for my next truck if the big 3 don't have a come to Jesus and realize "Huh, these trucks are built to tow, and not for rock crawling, perhaps we don't need to be 3' off the ground".
You order it based off the pin weight! The 5.5 model is (3.5K - 5.5K) pin weight and you want your actual pin weight to be in that middle range! He told me based off of experience of sales and talks with owners if you tow a toy in the garage go with the 5.5 model and if you don't go with the 6.5 model! We don't have a toy back there so we are very pin heavy and went with the 6.5 model!
Thanks for watching. I was on the highest setting for my B&W and could still only achieve 5 inches of bed rail clearance. Now with the new Gen-Y Pin Box installed I have had to lower the B&W down to the lowest setting to level my trailer and we still have 8 inches of bed rail clearance.
What you do is, you pull the fith wheel out the truck and put spacer bars between the bed and the fith wheel. I'd use about a 4 inch spacer bar and longer bolts.
We have a B&W Companion hitch that slides into the turnover ball socket in the bed! Adding spacers not only would not work it would be extremely unsafe when pulling a 20,000 camper! Our solution was to go with the Gen-Y pin box because not only does it solve our clearance issues with room for adjustment, but it is also designed to handle up to 30,000lbs with no additional components or items needed!
These issues start back on the drawing board when they are built from the factory they are not worried about height in the pin box it's all about ride height the higher the pin box the more the rear axles get out of wack and change one thing then other issues pop up been in the RV industry for over 36 years and be careful of the welds in the frame work as you go higher
It does go back to they way they built them! They have since stopped offering this configuration and have changed the pinbox weldment on the newer frames!
You always need a minimum of 6 inches or more. I’ve been a rv tech for 8 years and your problem is exactly that your only 5 inches. That’s not enough no matter what anyone says. Adjust your hitch or pin box. That’ll give you 6.5 inches and that would be perfect
Thanks for watching! The B&W was on the highest setting, and the stock rota-flex pin box was on the lowest setting and the clearance was 5 inchs. Therefore, our current configuration would not work, which is why we installed the new pin box. Now we have 8 inches of clearance and no more issues.
Thanks for watching! It only seems to be an issue with the 20K drop frame models (376, 397, and the 399). On the G Class and M class models I believe the frame is different and the mounting position of the pin box is lower. The new momentums are now coming with the MORryde pin box, and it does offer more clearance than the Lippert but could still hit in the right circumstances!
That is the biggest issue we had to deal with! The 2017 and up trucks bed rails are 1.5 inches taller than previous models. The trucks have changed but the campers have not.
I've got a fifth wheel to gooseneck adapter. I use the t built adjustable model. Never had an issue like this. Not saying my setup is better that anyone else's, but just chiming in.
@@PavingNewPaths I worried about clearance as well which is why I went with an adjustable with some offset. I'm running a 34' 5ver on a 92 F350. I've been down some pretty crappy roads on campgrounds as well as private property and haven't had an issue yet. I've got a 7.5 in my truck and looking to upgrade now and make this a farm truck, but I've read many times that newer Ford's are running into this. Glad you have me thinking as we are going looking next year and I think I'll stick with the goose. The only problem I ever have is it can be a rougher ride with it. Hope it fixes your problems and hope to see you on the road!
@@jamesglenn520 yeah some states are funny about it. I've went through a many of weight stations using the t built adapter and a Delco recon and new had issues. My B&W ball on one truck is rated for 30k, but the recon adapter is only rated at 20k I believe. Usually I only do 10k trailer weight on it. I'm not ever running more than 12k. No issues here, but like everything is is probably state dependent on laws
Happen to us when we switched trucks from 16 f350 didn't happen, then we got 20 f350 on a curt q25 and yes same problem with our redwood. Rv should have came with trail air with airbag but the send it out with a rotaflex.
Thank you for sharing! It is a combination of the truck bed sides getting taller and the standard cheap pin boxes on these big campers! What did you do to fix your issues?
@@PavingNewPaths it's a good option. I like being able to access my in bed hitch easily from outside the vehicle. And removable bedsides if I need to haul cargo. That looks like a nice setup you have there.
@@Mike_Atwell For us we need our bed, we use it as a trunk when not towing the camper on our adventures! The Gen-Y solved our problem, its to bad Grand Design doesn't address this issue when building them!
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I went with the Goosebox, and could not be happier. I never want another fifth wheel hitch in the bed of my truck again. Have been using it for almost 6 years. I have the smoothest and quietest ride, and have had no problems with the air bags or the shock absorbers. It does take a little more time to hook up. I use a 5" adapter that puts the ball back away from the truck cab. The 5" also gives more room between the trailer and the tailgate. Ps. Airbags have been used by trucks for 40 years. I have about 8" bed rail clearance. Love the clear pickup bed. After having 5th. wheels for 40 years, this is the best investment we have ever made. Our Arctic Fox came with a Morride, and we sold it and the dealer put the Goosebox on. Good luck and keep on traveling.. Dave-R
I strongly considered the goosebox and the Gen-Y gooseneck hitch! At the end of the day it came down to two things. The airbag and shocks on the goosebox are just one more thing I would need to inspect and check that could fail one day! The other is having to figure out offset ball I would need to move the ball placement around in the truck.
Since we already had a fully adjustable B&W fifth wheel hitch in the bed, the Gen-Y pinbox was the best solution for us!
Lol.. probably because the hitch was smarter then u
The correct way to torque a through bolt with a nut is to torque the nut, not the bolt. The bolt has extra friction from where it passes through the holes that will affect the torque reading negatively (actual torque will be less than indicated on the wrench)
The bolts are through bolt connection with no rotational force on the shank! So it is acceptable to have the TQ wrench on the bolt or the nut! (If you have to have a back up wrench to keep the bolt from turning then it doesn't matter which side the TQ wrench is on)!
@Paving New Paths torque wrench goes on the nut, everytime, never on the bolt. Cheers.
See above! It has been covered!
@@neilmac4730 I know this is a Gen Y install, but even my Reese Goosebox has the bolts going in from the outside just like in this video and the engineers at Reese also said to put torque wrench on the BOLT side and not on the nut. Big truck Big RV also confirmed this as well. He is doing it the correct way.
That's was the first thing I thought of when he went to torque the bolts I deal with on my job all the time. There are different applications for different things
I have a momentum 399th and I installed an Anderson ultimate 5th wheel with the locks for the retailer and have had 0 issues. I think it's a great setup and I can remove it from the bed of my truck in less than 5 minutes as it only weighs about 65 lbs. Have a safe one, happy travels!
Thanks for watching! Yes the guys with the Anderson hitch tend to have a little more clearance with the stock pin boxes due to the adapters you have to install on the pin box its self. If I were to do it all over again I would consider all components prior to purchasing anything to ensure I would not have this problem from day one!
I bent my kingpin plate with the anderson. Went to gen y. In my option the anderson is great for trailers under 15k. I would keep an eye on it.
@@Titanlessmatt yeah you need the lockout bars on there cause the plate is designed to move. I haven't had any issues so far. And also, no matter what system you use at the end of the day its about inspecting our rigs and making sure we're keeping our families and other drivers on the road safe. We can't be lazy and just hook up and go, especially for us towing the biggins. Safe travels to all!!
I’ve been a rv tech for 7 years and refuse to install the Anderson’s. I’ve installed about 300-400 hitches in trucks from 1991-2021. Anderson’s fail on big units like this and it can kill you. Type in Anderson 5th wheel hitch on google images and over half of the pictures are of them failing.
Sounds like he’s on the exact right track with the gen y pin box.
I really learned when I used to have my fifth wheel toy hauler that I really need like a lease 9 inches of clearance The problem happened to a few of my friends
We run 8 inches now since we installed the new pinbox! We hardly ever worry about hitting anymore! But there are still times is does come close!
I'll tell YA when I was a RV mechanic was told to mind my own business and keep my mouth shut ,if I want a job,GODS TRUTH ,this issue has been around a looooog time im 72 started in rvs in 1972,love ya drive safe ,keep GLAMPING
I see this issue daily when we travel! It gets worse with the bigger/heavier campers! It comes down to fifthwheel hitch and pinbox combinations that make all the difference! For us we went with the Gen-Y pinbox because it was the only one that would give us more than we needed, then we could lower the fifthwheel hitch to dial in the ride height!
We have a 2500 HD Chevy Silverado factory wheels tires shirt bed. Purchased Sabre 5th wheel 40’ long had them install gen Y . Husbands been pulling equipment grader etc all his life with CDL’s . We just took our first camping trip and now have a damage bed because of clearance ! My Husband had a feeling and even mentioned the clearance looking short but they said at the place where we purchased it and bought the gen y when it was installed that it looked short 🤦♀️
You need at least 6 minimum and that would still hit on very steep driveways! We have 7.5 and it is fine! You need to make sure you don't raise it too much as you will be towing nose high and the rear will be lower and could drag the ground! With a short bed you need to be mindful of hitting your truck cab when making sharp turns!
Thanks for your video. We have a 2019 Ford 450, a 2021 GD Momentum 399TH, an OEM Reece hitch. A Moryde/Lippert pinbox. Tonneau cover that has been thrashed and we replaced once. We raised the hitch and thought that would do it. Nope, thrashed again. We called Moryde, they said call Lippert.👉🏻 👈🏻 They guy at Moryde basically said Ford raised the sides of the beds, nobody else got the memo so the standard clearances are off. We had 5-6 inches of clearance and it still scrapes. The side scraping makes it nearly impossible to pull the bed cover closed. We're full time so we need the back of our truck for storage.
Glad you got yours resolved! We're still working it out.
Thanks for watching! Yes its true the bed sides are getting taller. There are alot of scenarios that could have fixed my problem as well as yours. Both the reese goosebox and the gen y gooseneck would work but it would require the 2 inch extended turnover ball from B&W. The stock mor-ryde does offer about 1.5 more inches than the stock lippert but for me that still would have not completely solved my problem. The Gen y pin box was the only one that would give me the clearance i needed. With out moving the fifth wheel hitch the pin box alone added 5 inches of bed rail clearance. So for us it went from 5 inches to 10 inches which was huge. i then dialed the fifth wheel hitch down until camper was level and we currently have 8 inches of bed rail clearance.
I have had my GenY Torsion Flex Boss for about 2 years now and it's amazing. It allows the truck and RV to act independently when hitting bumps and other stuff that causes lots of strong force to come into play between the 2. When I tow a John deer trailer with it I barely feel it compared to traditional hitch setups. And it has a lifetime warranty on the torsion arms and its components. Just the hitch and setup weighs just over 100 lbs so it's definitely not light. It's really heavy duty stuff. Lots of people ask me where I got it and how much it was. I'll say it's definitely not cheap. And get to talking about where it's from. Huge suporoter of GenY. Amazing products and amazing customer service. If you can afford it and want an amazingly smooth comfortable ride then you have to try GenY out. They know what they're doing. Heck they make trailer hitches that are rated up to 32,000 lbs. Try em out you won't be disappointed.
We love ours! We initially went to them to help solve our bedrail clearance issues, not only did the Gen-Y pinbox fix our clearance problems but the torsion system is amazing!
Not the case with all Gen-y hitches, they have messed me up twice and I had to pay restocking fee return shipping fee and a custom design fee for which I did not see anything that was custom and still did not work. FYI I think they just charged the custom fee so they could add no returns on custom hitches nothing was custom on hitch. I give them exactly what tongue weight was and first one flex down so much hit bed second one does not flex at all and is as ruff as ride as the factory I replaced with, my wife says this gen-y hitch rides even more ruff than the factory I took off so not everybody has had the same experience with gen-y hitch. I am sure they make some good hitches but not in my case.
Excellent video I have the same problem I've been driving truck for 34 years .... I have a monster 5th wheel like yours ...same type of setup I have a more ride hitch on the front of my trailer ...and a Anderson goose neck for the bed I still hit the bedrails and the tool boxes they're all wasted thousands of dollars have gotten down the drain... now I'll try your hitch the Gen. Y thank you very very much.... I gross out at over 31.000 thousand ..problem I have, I'm concerned on keeping the truck and trailer level and adjusting the airbags also... Please keep on trucking show us more videos... Be safe and have a great day
Thanks for watching! With the Gen Y we were able to gain good bed rail clearance as well as level our trailer. We no longer worry about hitting the bed rails, and the ride has been significantly improved!
We have a 2021 Grand Design 351m that had an original tongue of a Lippert Roto-plex pin box and BMW hitch. We had very little bed rail clearance just like you except 16K trailer weight. We switched to the MORryde Cushioned 5th wheel pin box and kept the BMW hitch. So far everything is working well. Great video.
Glad to hear you're new setup is working well for you!
On the 25K B&W Companion I just purchased and installed there is no setting to go "behind the axle" on a Ford. The two options are 3 inches in front or 1 inch in front of the axle. I'm running 1 inch in front for the extra tailgate clearance when hitching up.
My truck came with no tow prep so when I was deciding on if I was going to get the puck system or a B&W turn over ball system it came down to the adjustments in the fifth wheel hitch! With the puck system you are left with what you have only two adjustments! With the B&W turn over ball and the B&W companion that works with it you can actually go 4 inches fwd and 4 inches behind the axle for a total of 8 inches of adjustments! I made a video about each position and how it changed the weight on the truck! You can see it here ruclips.net/video/I16SxEQJfAA/видео.htmlsi=o3wSUzzDw8a8eILi
Ok thanks for the explanation. I have the factory fifth wheel and gooseneck prep, so if I was interested in the system you have, does that work with my factory gooseneck ball?
@@BrewCityRider I believe it only works if you have the B&W turn over ball system installed on the frame under the bed, this would be in place of your factory gooseneck ball!
I have the Gen-Y gooseneck version for our New Horizons and have no clearance issues. I back in at home downhill and no rubbing . I’m at 23k fully loaded the way I travel. I also have a Roll N Lock bed cover.
Thanks for watching! Since we have installed the Gen-Y pin box we have not had any clearance issues. I only wish i would have know about Gen-Y sooner i might have gone the gooseneck version route if i didn't already have so much money invested in the B&W.
@@PavingNewPaths
I didn’t have a hitch and was looking at the Reese Goosebox but it didn’t have the weight capacity for our 5thwheel. It’s nice just having a gooseneck ball in the bed of my truck. Good luck and safe travels
I am getting a new Momentum 376ths when they get it ready and I am going with the Gen Y goose neck for the reason I like the setup and I still need to be able to Haul a slide in camper and pull a horse trailer when I am not pulling the fifth wheel. I wanted the easy way to do both and the more I watch videos like these I glad I made this choose.
The Gen-Y is a great choice. The gooseneck was an option, but since we already had the B&W fifth wheel hitch, going with the pin box model was the best choice for us.
Glad you didn’t go with a gooseneck. Camper frames are not designed with extra supports that the gooseneck needs. They are lot lower hookup point causes Leverage on camper frame. You can see the extra support on a flat bed gooseneck trailer and you will see what in mean with 😉 I got lucky with mine I have adjustable height on truck hitch and camper pin box.
Ours was also adjustable the fifth wheel plate can be adjusted from 15 1/2 inches to 18 1/4! The stock pinbox was also lowered to the lowest setting and that only gave us 5 1/2 inches of clearance! The problem comes from the drop frame design and the mounting position of the pinbox! The lippert rota-flex does not have any drop from the mounting point so it is very tight! If our camper came with the morryde we might have never had an issue! The Gen-Y gave us 10 inches of clearance and we could make adjustments on the pinbox and the fifth wheel to dial in the ride height!
@@PavingNewPaths gotcha on yeah mine has little more height adjustment limit on trailer then you have. As well as the new setup you installed is still far closer than a gooseneck would be to trailer pin box mounting point.
@@kevink4914 We went with the pinbox over the gooseneck because it allowed us to be able to adjust both components giving us so many combinations to dial it in! The gooseneck conversion besides the extra stress didn't add much clearance without having to go to B&W to get balls with an offset rise in them!
Thx PNP for an informative video of a problem many 5vers suffer from. I'm currently on my 3rd 5ver and have had seversl hitch and pinbox combinations including a Anderson Ultimate GN with 5th Airborne Sidewinder combo on my KZ 38' TH while going to remote boon dock sites on FS fireroads with no clearance issues. I currently have a 1T D'max 8' bed dually and Fuzion 40' TH with 4/20k# Reese Goose Box with 2 ball hitches 1 4" forward standard height and 2nd 8" rear of axle 3" higher which gives me 10" clearance of bed rsil to trlr over hang with air bag full on Goose Box for off road clearance. YMMV PS in 3 yrs of usage no air bag leaks in Goosebox but I also never experienced any with the 5th Airborne Reese hitch as well in 4+ years of boon docking on FS roads in the Sierras. Happy Camping PNP.
Thanks for watching! This is an issue i see alot of people having but there is no right answer. This is just my solution for what solved my problems.
90% of welding trucks have 5th wheel behind the axle, not a single problem, pulling bigger trailers than yours, you’ll be fine
I tried it 2 inches forward, right over the axle and 2 inches behind, because I wanted to know! And for me any my trailer 2 inches behind was the best ride for both the trailer and truck!
Good choice with the Gen-Y. I installed the Gen-Y on my Solitude and then switched it to my 2022 Reflection. I hook it to a goose ball and I tell people the trailer gets the most benefit from the Gen-Y as it absorbs the vibration and the bounce. Good job with the video.
Thank you for watching! We feel the Gen-Y was the best solution for our issues!
I read somewhere that the bed sides of the newer trucks are taller than in the past, this could mean the setups of hitches are too low. I personally think 5" is tight for the clearance between the bed rail and the RV.
You are correct 2017 and newer trucks are 2 inches taller bed rails on all 3 brands! This combined with certain pinboxes can cause major issues!
We have the Reese M5 hitch and the LCI Flex Air + roto flex pin box. Ours was installed by our KZ dealer before we picked up the trailer. 2022 Durnago Gold and a 2022 F350 dully crew cab. I have 7 inches of clearance which makes the front of the trailer sit up 3 inches higher than the back. Not happy with that as it's 13' 6" originally and it's raised our clearance now to 13' 9". I may lower our hitch 2" as it's set to the highest holes. Bed rail clearance at this time is no issue. 41.5 foot trailer, GVWR of 16k
The Flex Air by lippert would have fixed out problems but I didn't want another component that required maintenance! Having the shock and the airbag means one day they will need to be replaced or could fail on me! This issue is most prevalent on the 20K and up drop frames! Yours being a 16K it has a different mounting point for the pin box and that mounting location is completely different than what happens when the frames go to the 20K models! If you drop it down to the lowest setting of 5 inches you are going to have clearance issues getting in and out of RV parks!
If your trailer is riding level just add lift blocks to ur trailer axles and raise your 5th wheel hitch in the bed of your truck to match.
That’s what I did . Now I have plenty of clearance. By just raising your pin box the back of your trailer will loose clearance when and possibly drag when going in and out of driveway.
We put alot of time and research into this issue! Our stock setup we lowered the rota-flex pinbox to the lowest setting and Fifth wheel hitch was on the highest setting, this gave us only 5 inches of bed rail clearance! The problem is only a big deal on the 20K drop frame trailers with a lippert Rota-Flex pin box from the factory! It also depends on what year truck you have, pre 2017 you would be fine after 2017 all brands raised the bed rails by 2 inches! We cannot raise the trailer as it would put our A/C units taller than 13'6"! Our truck is a 2020 and that year Ford lowered the Superduty suspension by 2 inches, so we were towing nose down and had room to give to level the trailer as the back end was the highest pioint! The Gen-Y pinbox gave us 10 inches when installed and we were able to level the trailer by lowering the fifth wheel hitch. We now have 8 inches of bedrail clearance and all three A/C units are the same height, before the install the since we were nose down the rear A/C was the highest point on the camper!
You don’t want to run nose-high either. Or nose-low. Your tires, axles, pin box, hitch, and truck height all need to be coordinated so that you have both good clearance and run level.
We left it slightly nose high during the 1000 mile break in period as there is some settling of the pin box during this time. We have since adjusted it to run level and we still maintain 8 inches of clearance. When I say slightly nose high, It was one inch higher in the front than in the back, this is not visible to the eye and could only be verified by measuring the camper roof to the ground in the front and the back! Over 44 Feet I would still call that pretty level.
@@PavingNewPaths That is definitely level enough just don't buy a new truck. They are at least 3 inches taller bedrails than your current measurement. Mine sits at 58 inches tall, which required me to put a lift kit on the fifth wheel to be within 1 inch of level.
@@nickstorbakken9402 In 2020 the Ford lowered the superduty 2 inches over the 2017-2019 models! That was another intersting piece of info i learned when trying to sort out the best way to fix our problem.
All these new trucks sit way to high,,not sure what the manufactures are thinking. I install hitches at work all the time and always caution my customers about bed rail clearance. It's not just RV'S, some stock trailers using a gooseneck style hitch also get into bed sides.
I personally have a 2004 Chevy 3500, Duramax 4 X 4 w/ dual rear wheels and a Western Hauler body. Yes it's pretty much a full time pull rig w/o a regular bed, but I have plenty of clearance !
Thanks for watching! Since about 2017 all manufacturers have been increasing the bed depth and its causing issues that I never thought i would have to deal with.
@@PavingNewPaths
And keep in mind, as you change hitch and pin box locations to gain clearance to the bed rails,,,you want to try and keep the trailer level so as not to overload one axle and thus the tires causing blowouts. Just FYI
@@daboo7725 We were actually a little nose down before the upgrade. Now we have the trailer sitting level and still have 8 inches of bed rail clearance!
@@PavingNewPaths
Good deal.
Be careful with very back corner of bed on steep approaches, otherwise sounds like ya got it dialed in.
Yup, that's the real problem. My '19 F450 looks like a monster truck it so high. Yeah, I suppose it "looks cool", but people buying big duallys are generally doing that to haul, and they are so high that there are problems like this. Even my GN dump trailer, I have to be careful and it rides nose high because of the ridiculous truck height. The dump trailer I could fix easily by adding some height to it at the frame, the RV, I can't do that because it's already at max legal height (13'6").
I’ve always been told to have gooseneck flatbeds and horse trailers 8”+ so I run about 7-8”on my camper and I never have to worry.
We have 8 inches now and no longer have to worry!
Interesting. Our old truck was a 11 Sierra and had a prior installed hitch with rails. Our new truck a 16 F350 had the puck mounts and I had kept the old trucks 5er hitch. Bought the Ford/Reese adapter that puck mounts and allows old style Hitches with rails and pins to be mounted. The hitch has 3 crossbolt adjustments kinda similar to the pinbox. Originally in the Sierra it was in the middle and was just shy of bed rail level. In the F350 it was sticking just above bed rail level. Not to mention I have a Roll n Lock in the F350. The puck adapter raised it quite a bit so I had to drop the hitch down to the lowest settings on the cross bolts. It fits just under the path of the RnL Cover and I have ample clearance right now bed sides.
I want to dump the old hitch and the adapter since together they are a monster to remove and install. In favor of a Resse/Ford direct pick style. But I fear this same clearance issue.
I do think my pinbox has one more 'drop' cross bolts setting I could do. But not sure.
For reference my Fuzion TH came with a MorRyde pinbox
If you truck is a 2016 model you are fine they didn't start making the bed rails taller on trucks until 2017 models! If it were me I would just get a B&W companion for your truck and be done with it! They are the best hitches out there, and will lock and unlock in almost any position or angle!
Back your truck under your hitch use your hydraulic floor jack with a piece of plywood and or pieces of 2x4 to support the jack. Unbolt, let the hitch down, pull out, put the new hitch on jack with same bracing, back under hitch, jack hitch up and reattach. I’ve done it a few times all by myself with no problems.
We thought about doing it that way but due to the torsion system and the extra weight on the front of the pinbox we decided it was probably easier to just pick it up and stab it! Especially since we had plenty of family around to help do the job!
I have the same issue with my '19 F-450 hauling my Jayco Seismic 4113 toy hauler (45' long, 20k). I'm running the Mor/Ryde rubber pin box, and using a Reese M5 27k hitch. I have plenty of adjustment to be able to go up, but the biggest problem I have is that the overall height of the camper is already at 13'6" at the front AC, so raising the front end isn't an option. I was thinking about putting the front AC in the garage, and getting a low profile unit for the front to give me a couple more inches of clearance, but I also have concerns about the tail dragging if I go any higher on the nose.
I used to pull an older 31' Damon Escaper 5th wheel camper, which was definitely not designed to run behind a truck this high. The way I resolved the issue on that unit was to "flip" the axles, reinforce the suspension, and install the CRE3000 equalizers to give myself 7" of additional height at the trailer axles. That did the trick without having to run nose high. Again, not an option when I'm already at 13'6" on the Seismic... Big rig problems...
For us our truck is a 2020 and ford lowered them, so we were nose down. However with the lippert pin box and B&W I was at the max adjustment on both and still only had 5 inches. When I took my measurements a 1 inch increase in the front only dropped the rear 1/2 inch.
Our Curt hitch and Grand Design 336 RLS was fairly close at first. We had to move the 5th wheel hitch head up to last bolt holes. We also have a 2020 F350 6.7 dually.
Our B&W was on the highest setting, and the stock pin box was on the lowest setting. The new Gen Y pin box combined with my B&W gives me 5 inches of adjustability to dial my clearance and ride height in.
Pullrite 2600 single point attachment. 2024 Silverado 3500. Momentum 320G. Sweet setup! Works wonderfully!
I'm sure its a nice set up but a 330g and a 397 TH are not the same class of RV! The problem is present on the drop frame models that come with the lippert rota flex pinbox from the factory!
I have a similar, but slightly different issue. We bought our setup truck and RV from the previous owner. He built out the F-250 to look really sweet, like an off-roading truck with big 37 inch tires, 2.5 inch lift in the front and AirLift 7500 air bags in the back. Problem is the RV isn't level, points up in the front. The metal gang box on the back of the hitch, where the 7-pin wire goes into the RV comes into contact with the bed rail if I turn too sharp. There are a lot of situations I should be able to back a Fifth Wheel in at 90 degrees, and I cannot, or I will tear up the bed rail.
Your level situation is hard to fix on a lifted truck! Most guys end up flipping the trailer axles from on top of the leaf springs to below to solve this issue but you have to be aware your total trailer height will change by about 3 inches! The back of your pinbox hitting the bed rails at tight turns will require you to figure out what pin box will work as you likely need a shorter one!
@@PavingNewPaths I had debated lifting the RV, it can handle the height. I can handle the height, Except for... the outdoor kitchen. Currently I'm the only one that can reach the outdoor sink to wash hands outside without a stool. So I'm not sure lifting the RV is a good idea. I may have to explore different pin box as you suggested.
Very similar issues! 19 F350 and 2011 Montana with the Moryde. Had to drop the pinbox a hole, and raise the 5th wheel higher. Still gotta watch the inside if I turn too tight! My understanding is that newer ford's have higher and thicker bed rails. 🤷♂️
Yes all trucks now have taller bed rails, the Fords are 1.5 inches taller. If i had the morryde I probably could have managed. You should look into the Gen-Y pin box we never worry about hitting and the suspension system is amazing.
@@PavingNewPaths definitely gonna look into it, but im canadian and exchange rates are horrible! We also just got a seasonal site, so might not need to replace it. We will see! Looks beefy for sure!
5 inch clearance isn’t enough for that trailer. Add more height and adjust. All good.
This is what the video is about! We were at the max adjustments on both the stock pinbox and the fifth wheel hitch to get 5 inches! The Gen-Y pinbox gave us 5 additiinal inches in the same position! We were then able to make adjustments to dial the trailer in and now have 7.5 inches of bed rail clearance!
It is all about bed clearance which can be obtained in multiple ways. Have you thought about if your adjusted your rotoflex down a notch. Just because they had 6 bolts doesn’t meant that is the reaquirment. As your raise the trailer you need to verify level and what level you good with being out of level. Trucks are taller which makes it tougher. Love my Goosebox.
The stock lippert rota flex only had 5 bolts per side and was on the lowest setting. Per lippert that is the required bolts to maintain a 20k rating for my frame and pinbox. In 2020 the superduty were lowered 2 inches compared to the 2017-2019 years. Because of this we were towing nose down prior to the install. The Gen-Y allowed us to get 8 inches of bed rail clearance and let us level the trailer!
You need 5-6 inches on a standard 5th wheel with a non-articulating pin. Goosneck and fake gooseneck (pinbox ads articulation) requires about 8-10 inches because the trailer can tilt farther than it can with a standard 5th wheel.
You really need 6-8 to be safe and the tilting has no affect on bed rail clearances! You either have space or you don't the amount of tilt you have doesn't matter because you will hit regardless of why type of hitch you have!
@@PavingNewPaths The allowable tilt built into the hitch determines the height needed for safety. Have you ever looked at a standard 5th wheel? There is no articulation side to side. The plate only articulates front to back for hooking up and unhooking the trailer. A gooseneck allows 15-30° difference in the articulation of the trailer vs the truck.
As far as "tilting not having an effect on bedrail clearance", I can tell you have never driven anything with a trailer for a living. Multiple point and high articulation hitches are designed for uneven driving conditions. There is a reason that equipment trailers, flatbeds, and even cargo trailers are designed to be gooseneck or pintle hitch until over 30-40k gross weight when they then move to 5th wheel. Do up the math, on a 3 foot span (center of hitch to the outside of the bed rail) 5 inches only allows for a maximum of 13.89° of articulation which is suitable for a standard 5th wheel but not a hitch designed for 15-30°. 11 inches of hight at 3 feet is a 30.556° or just about maximum for a goosenecks articulation. Tilting very much does matter as it is allowable articulation in a given direction. This is why gooseneck is the preferred hitch for off-road heavy haul and uneven conditions. The truck and trailer can be in any combination of up to 30° without the hitch trying to straighten them up or pull apart. Stop thinking in a straight line. The trailer is subjected to tilting in multiple directions.
I have the Gen Y gooseneck on my DRV and I have a 2020 Ford 450 I also went with a taller ball in the bed of the truck to increase my clearance to 8". Truck and trailer are level have only towed about 200 miles with it. So far very happy main reason I went with this the mor ride pinbox I had on my old fifth wheel. In a tight level turn the backside of the pin box would get into the bed rails of the truck..
Thanks for watching! I never had that problem with the lippert rota-flex. Mine was always the top of the bed rails or the tailgate was smashing into the bottom of the camper. We didn't know that was a problem until we headed out west, from Florida to Arizona we were fine, once we headed north into Utah and beyond the RV park entraces got more challenging with angles and slopes.
What size taller and make ball are you using on your F450 with the Gen Y?
B and W makes a ball with different rise and offsets to help with adjustments!
I installed the Gen Y gooseneck on my camper. I have the b&w gooseneck ball. I actually use a weighsafe ball with mine. I love the ride of the Gen Y. Before I had a standard pin box and the Andersen hitch. Was a nice setup but it was a rough ride on rough roads.
We love the Gen-Y for the clearance issues we resolved as well as the added benefit of the torsion system.
Another great video. Glad you found a solution to your problem. Just joined the RV community with the purchase of a 2021 Montana High Country. Looking forward to creating memories with our family. Grateful to have your channel as a resource for our new adventures. Keep up the good work!
Thank you! Rving is a great way to travel and see this country!
I know this seems dumb but why not hook the hitch to the pickup take the bolts out and drive forward so you don't have to use your back in a bad position. Than do the opposite with the new one.
We thought about doing that but the fifth wheel hitch will not hold the new pin box level. So then your left with a floor jack trying to level the new pinbox and because its not the same height you would have to use the rv jacks to raise and lower the rv to get the bolt holes to line up! For us that was to many moving parts when two men can safely lift this in to place and have more control over getting thr boly holes lined up!
@@PavingNewPaths God bless you and your family and have a safe journey.
Thanks!
Suggestion I always refer to is “the thumb up rule” for in between the bed rail and fifth wheel. I also put a 4-6’ level inside the camper on the floor to determine actual true ride level. Best way to determine weight distribution is to run through a scale to determine what you actually have over each axle…. To little on the steer axle and you float steer. Camper dealers who actually take the time to correctly setup a hitch will prevent customers from having to diy their hitch parts to determine the right setup. Also make sure you match pin boxes before swapping, I went through 3 pin boxes on a buddies fifth wheel and his mega cab setup before Lippert confirmed his trailer was fitted from the factory with an extended pin box (7” longer between center on pin locations) vs the ones he was originally sold. After installing the right pin box he did not need a slider hitch in his mega cab being he need 4” of extra pin distance vs the 7”.
Never heard 5-6 inches clearance. Anything I've read or heard always says 6 inches minimum. But to adjust accordingly to avoid clearance issues. Obviously 5 isn't working for you.
Thanks for watching! 5 inches is fine if you stay down south were everything is flat! We didn't know we had a problem until we got to Utah and the driveways became more challenging getting in and out of RV parks.
The problem with the new trucks is the beds sides are getting taller. On my 2001 truck I had 8” clearance. On my 2019 I have 4.5”. Same trailer and hitch. It’s all in the name of cooling in the front having a taller grille and the bedside are made to match the height ( for looks).
Yes, this is precisely what caused our issue, which it was important we change out our hitch before causing major damage.
You mentioned a gooseneck conversion, glad you didn’t go that route. I am on my 4th 5th wheel and am no expert but was told by more than one that 5th wheel frames are not made to be pulled as a gooseneck! You change the geometry and stress points by pulling it lower. Makes sense to me!
That is true, it does change the geometry! However lippert has approved the reese goosebox for use on their frames! They have not yet approved the use of the Gen-Y gooseneck version!
You are so very correct on they are not designed for gooseneck. If you look at the design of a flat bed gooseneck you will see why. Totally different design then a camper hitch. Luckily I have the ability to adjust the height of fifth wheel hitch on the camper as well as truck hitch .
The problem is that all the new trucks are too tall and no one has enough clearance anymore. 20 years ago this was not a problem.
There needs to be a minimum of 8 inches between the camper and bed rail or more but that is impossible with newer campers and trucks.
I have been around RVs all of my life and helped my Dad set them up in the past for our own and other peoples rigs.
It used to be that you could adjust the height of your camper to maintain clearance to your truck. When I was a kid years ago I helped my dad adjust the axles on our Holiday Ramble 5th wheel camper.
It was a monster and you needed a dually to tow it. We adjusted the pin box and the supports that sat on top of the axle leaf springs. We raised the camper 4 inches above the axles higher up and adjusted the pin box down and the angle to shift the weight to level out the rig to the truck.
We had 10 inches of space between the truck box rails and the bottom of the camper.
it allowed the camper to clear and roll going though dips and ditches as well as climbing up over and onto roads and highways and in and out of drives into stations and parking lots.
It seems manufacturers have forgotten the past or a new generation can't figure out simple issues.
At my dealership we aim for 6 inches of space between the bed rails and the unit, we also go through all options, and recommend the best set up per truck, we do not stream line anything. Ultimately it is up to the customer, but we do our due diligence so that this does not happen.
We had 5 1/2 inches and we had no problem down south where its relatively flat. It was not until we hit colorado we started having problems! We now have around 8 inches and no longer worry about hitting!
@@PavingNewPaths Im located in WI, and its also pretty flat here also lol. Bad thing is we can do our best on the service side of it all to get the customer want they need/want for their use. We do have alot that tend to go with the anderson style set up. We also deal alot with the turning point for those who have shortbeds. I'm glad to see you guys have solved your issue, this is why I surf youtube on these subjects time to time, helps us techs, help newer owners so they hopefully do not encounter these issues, or atleast educate at the very least so they are aware before the issue arises.
I,ve got a GEN-Y Executive Hitch on my Grand Design Reflection 5th wheel. Lots of trouble hooking up. If the camper and truck are not both level or on a different slope.If the front of your tow vehicle is raised higher than the wheels on the camper you,ll have one heck of a time getting the hitch to lock . The pin bearing plate has a slope to the front and prevents proper engaging with the locking jaw on my Reese hitch. I called Gen-Y to discuss the problem I,m experiencing, & they just blow me off. I sent them pictures of the pin sitting on top of the locking jaw , but they have yet to acknowledge a problem. Tows beautifully once you get it hitched up properly but I,m concerned that sometime I,m going to have unhitched in a camp site that is impossible to get hooked back up. My driveway is a prime example of the issue. Drive way has a slope up to the house and the my truck is on a level street when I hook up. Usually takes 5 or six or more tries get the camper to exactly the right height so the hitch will lock in place.If you have the trailer height too low it will simply dig into the hitch. Raise the trailer a bit to much & it will ride up on top of the locking devise. You also need have the truck & trailer perfectly straight in line. Come at it from an angle & you will not get it to connect. Design of the bearing plate needs to be redesigned so it will engage easier on my Reese hitch and GMC 2500 truck. But it sure does tow nice once your over the frustration of trying to get the darn thing to hook up. Good luck with yours.
This is why I kept my B&W fifth wheel hitch and did not go the gooseneck route. The B&W is the easiest hitch to hook up. No matter the angle or height I have never had a problem hitching or unhitching. You should look at getting one, it takes us 5 minutes to go from ready to hitch to ready to go down the road.
There's a height adjustment on the fifth wheel pinbox as well as the 5th wheel hitch.
We are aware of that! the stock pinbox was on the lowest setting and the fifthwas on the highest setting and we still only had 5 inches of clearance! We explained this in the video that is why we changed the pinbox to gain the needed clearance on our truck!
if your not buying anything with an airbag because someone else said so , you need to try it yourself , airbags are great they last longer than the first gen of airbags and they give a great ride
Just move your pin box to the lower holes on the mounting . I did that on my 19 f350 dually towing a 42 foot toy hauler. Never a problem again.
The stock pin box was lowered to to bottom holes and we still only had 5 inches of clearance!
I know the new pin pox is a great upgrade and especially worth it if you travel frequently or full time. For those who don't use your camper much and don't want to spend the money on a new pin box, I would just move the pin box down a set of holes to add the required clearance. I know this would only allow you to run 4 bolts per side instead of 5 and 5 are recommended for a GVWR over 18k. However a grade 8 bolt in this size has a shear rating of roughly 22k lbs per bolt (vs grade 5 @ 18k) . Your trailer frame will break before you sheared even 2 grade 8 bolts per side. In the video you can see how much the frame is flexing. If you were worried about the grade 8's you could go with a super alloy bolt for a shear of up to 38k lbs per bolt or stitch weld as well as bolt.
You can certainly do that, and it would work, but this problem only applies to specific Lippert drop frame models rated at 20K and up with a Lippert Rota flex pin box, when paired with a 2017 or newer truck from any brand! If you have already invested the money on the camper and the truck, why would you try to save money now on a $1500 part that was engineered to work!
If you had the B&W Companion did you make sure it was at the tallest setting? I had to move mine up when I went from an F150 to an F350 because of the bed clearance. I also to put taller shackles on the old trailer to level the trailer. My new trailer sits taller so I didn't have to make any adjustments and it came with the Rotoflex.
@@atvtinker01 The B&W was moved to the highest setting and the pinbox was on its lowest setting! This only gave us 5 1/2 inches of bedrail clearance! This issue only shows its self when your camper is built on a 20,000lbs or bigger lippert drop frame with a Rota-Flex pinbox installed when trying to use a 2017 or newer truck. If you have a 2016 or older truck you won't have this problem, In 2017 all the truck manufacturers increased the bed depth by about 2 inches. The key here is the drop frame models you can have a 18,000 or 20,000 lbs camper that is not a drop frame and have the rota-flex pinbox and never have an issue! Only the Grand Design M class are built on this frame, They now come with the Morryde pinbox which adds about 2 inches over the lippert rotaflex! The other ones I have found that have these issues are the Mobile Suites and the DRV brands and they now come with the Gen-Y from the factory!
@@PavingNewPaths I know one line of the Keystones have those dropped frames. Only reason I commented about the Companion was that in your video it didn't look like it was at the top setting. Of course the video could have given that perception due to the angle when panned it through the bed.
@@atvtinker01 In the begining before we installed the Gen-Y it was at the highest setting! After installing the Gen-Y the after measurements gave in the video was the middle height position for the B&W and it was left there for the 1000 mile break in period as there is some settling! After the break in period it did not settle as much as I expected so we are now on the lowest setting and have 8.5 inches of bed rail clearance and have had no issues in almost 8 months!
I have the flex air pin box with the air bag and I never had an issue with it. I can deflate the airbag if I have clearance isues on the height under wires and I can put air back in to adjust the clearance for my bed. Also if I load the rv too much I can put more air to make it ride smooth.
The flex air pin box was my choice until I found the Gen-Y pin box. I didn't want something else I would have to remember to check or maintain. Also I was afraid if the airbag was to fail I would not be able to move with out repairing!
I would have just changed out the 5th wheel hitch. This is why I love my Demco hitch. It’s amazing and it slides with ease. My camper is also 20k too.
The fifth wheel hitch is not the issue! The size of the bed rails are! We don't need a slider as we are not hitting the cab we are hitting the top of the bedrails! This only is a problem with 20k trailers built on a drop frame that come from the factory with a lippert rota-flex pinbox when used with a 2017 or newer truck from any brand! There are many 20k trailers out there not built on a drop frame and that changes everything as far as clearances go the mounting point of the pinbox is different and you would have plenty of clearance! If ours came with the morryde pinbox we would never had to change either as it is 2 inches taller!
@@PavingNewPaths
First off there is not need to get wound up. I understand what you are saying and agree with you 100% but there is something you are clearly missing here. The reason I said this hitch specifically is because it eliminates your issues all together and while getting the added Benefits of the sliding hitch. I wish I could show you a pic of the height of the plate in my truck because this was a major concern for me as I have a short bed Mega cab truck. This was the answer for both the height and also it getting into the cab corners and I’ll tell you it works wonders. I’m glad you got yours worked out. Question how much was it to swap the pin box out? Thanks 🙏
Your Demco is the same height as my B&W they are adjustable from 15 1/2 inches to 18 1/4 inches! There is no height gained by changing the hitch! This is a very specific issue caused by a certain frame and pinbox combinations! If you don't have the issue be thankful, but this video was made for those who do! If your RV is 20k and you don't have clearance issues its because you likely don't have a drop frame model, and if it is a drop frame your's came with the morryde pinbox or a non cushioning standard pinbox! The reason we went with the Gen-Y over all other choices is because when installed in the same position as the stock pinbox it added 5 inches of extra clearance giving me options on ride height adjustments! All other choices only gave me 2 inches max! I was then able to dial the camper in to level while still having 8 inches of clearance! The pinbox cost me around $1300, but we sold the stock pinbox to help with cost so a little less than 1k to fix this!
The hitch on the travel trailer can be adjusted as the one in the bed of the truck... This should of been addressed long before hook up and tow
The pin box on the trailer was lowered to the lowest setting and the fifth wheel hitch in the truck was on the highest setting! This only gave us 5 1/2 inches of bed rail clearance! There was more to this issue than just a simple bolt adjustment! That is why we made the video to show how we addressed the problem, the main issue that causes this is what frame the camper is built on and what stock pin box the manufacturer puts on the RV! Grand Design had a year or two when they put the Lippert-Rota Flex pin box instead of the Morryde Pin Box and that reduced your possible clearance! Then came 2017 when all trucks began having bed sides that were 2 inches taller further reducing your clearance!
I had to adjust both my trucks and trailers to make it level. Now I have plenty of distance between the bed and overhang to accommodate my tool box. Which means I don't have to remove it.. glad u got it button upped... Looks like an awesome set up!!
I was editing the first response to include more details on the issues when you replied! Honestly, we knew it was tight and didn't think we had a problem until we left flat ground! We went from Texas to Florida back to Texas through New Mexico, and Arizona! When we got to Utah, we started running into big angle changes when entering RV parks off the highway and it became clear we needed more clearance! Colorado and Wyoming were just as bad we had to watch angles when entering and leaving parks and be very careful! So, after some research the best choice to solve all of our problems was to go with the Gen-Y because it allowed me more static clearance than I needed, and I could use the mounting position and the Fifth Wheel plate to dial in the ride height!
Shit happens... My Uncle ripped a hitch completely out of his bed... Long ago...
I had the Gen-Y Gooseneck hitch installed on my new Alliance Valor 40v13 before I ever picked it up.
I have a 2021 3500 Ram longbox Duelly with the Ram Air rear suspension and the truck and trailer are flat and rides like a dream 👍😉
Before Gen-Y we had minimal bed rail clearance, the trailer was towing nose down and the ride was horrible. We originally looked at Gen-Y to solve our bed rail clearance issues and to level the trailer. The ride however compared to a stock pinbox is a night and day difference!
What ball do you use? Standard or high rise?
@@mfaulguy I am using the B&W Gooseneck set. It comes with the safety chain anchors and the ball with the release handle.
Simple and cleaner to use than anything else on the market.
Flip the handle and lift out the ball. You don't have to touch the greasy ball to release it 👍
The fundamental problem here lies with the truck manufacturers. I own a 2019 F450 and tow a Grand Design 351M with it using a Reese goosebox. There's just no way to find more clearance because the truck is too high. There's no way to lower the truck, so all you can do is raise the pin (which I have, but puts me nose high) or raise the trailer (which I have as well, but the Momentum is already almost at max legal height, any more and you'll be over 13'6".). The answer is to lower the trucks back down or, possibly, lower the sides on the bed. There is absolutely no towing purpose to be up in the air so high, it's an "all show, no go" feature that makes a F450 "look cool" while harming it's biggest purpose in life, towing a GN or 5'er. Yes, you can "fix" it somewhat through pin boxes and adjustments; but the real fix is knocking a few in off the ride height on the truck.
Yes, the main problem is the bedrails are getting too high. The 2020 and up Superduty's are now lower than previous models. Not only did I not have enough clearance, I was also nose down when towing. The Gen-Y pin box allowed me to gain my clearance and level my trailer. I was also worried about trying to gain clearance and causing my rig to be nose high, that is why I choose the pin box version over the gooseneck version. This way I can make adjustments to my pin box as well as the B&W fifth wheel hitch to dial in the ride height and clearance.
@@PavingNewPaths Truck too high and bed rails too high, both working against us. At least you were nose low, that means you had wiggle room. I'm nose high and have nothing left, can't lower the truck, can't raise the trailer, and can't adjust the pin box because I'm already at "too close" clearance. :(
Absolutely...I just traded my 2018 f350 4x4 for a 2022 f450....the bed height is about 2 inches lower on the 450 which has made a huge difference with accessibility in the bed (I'm 6'3") as compared to the 2018
Some people are adding lower or shorter spring plates in the rear to lower the truck. I have a 2019 F350 and it sits way to high. Would be cool if they offered factory bed rails that folded down or were lower.
@@darren6790 Do you have any links? I've looked high and low for a way to lower my f450. Everyone I talk to says it's not possible without major surgery
Seems to me having the emergency brake release pointed towards the ground is not the best place to have it mounted. I would have mounted it so that it points to the back of the truck.
The emergency brake release is pointed towards the truck! For reasons out of our control not everything makes the final cut of the video you see!
This is su h a simple solution put a flat bed on your truck. Problem solved. You will have boxes for storage. And have all the clearance you need.
The simple solution was installing the Gen-Y pinbox, we got to keep our bed and the pinbox is far cheaper than a flat bed conversion!
@Paving New Paths I agree it is cheaper and I'm happy you found a solution your pleased with. I tried Gen y and was ok with it but am much happier with my companion on my flat bed. Happy camping be safe.
We looked at flatbed conversions because we were sure the Bed was going to get damaged before we were able to get this resolved! In the end since we travel fulltime we really needed our bed to use as a trunk when we are not towing the RV!
You’re a VERY patient man reading through the comments. 🤣 My 5th rides high in the front causing tire wear and other problems. Looking for solutions myself. No manufacture can guarantee they can fix the problem with their hitch/pinbox solution. this is a problem for the industry right now. Good post
The whole campground showed up, got to love that.
In this case we knew them all it was all friends and family that we were camping with! There was however a few guys that we didn't know that came over and wanted to help!
You need to torque the nuts not the bolt if you turn the bolt in the hole you will not get a true torque setting on the nut
The bolts are through bolt connection with no rotational force on the shank! So it is acceptable to have the TQ wrench on the bolt or the nut! (If you have to have a back up wrench to keep the bolt from turning then it doesn't matter which side the TQ wrench is on)!
Torque wrench goes on the the nut , not the head of the bolt
When you have no rotational friction on the bolt it does not matter if the TQ wrench goes on the nut or the bolt! ( If you have to put a back up wrench on it to keep it from spinning it does not matter)
Have the same issue with our 2020 Solitude 377mbs. The previous owner scrubbed the underside of the trailer pretty hard.
Great video, I'll be looking into that hitch for sure. Thanks for the content.
You're very welcome!
I have an answer, buy a HDT SEMI. Better power, better breaks
Better clearances, all around safer rig. Trade that pick up in on a semi.
I would love a flat top pete! However the way we travel and plan our adventures we need a vehicle that will pull our camper and hold the family of soon to be 6 on our day trips exploring!
Angle on a road trying to go where you probably shouldn't. 🤔
We had problems getting in and out of RV parks because we didn't have enough bed rail clearance! This videos shows how we fixed our issues by installing a Gen-Y pinbox!
One of your problems is the way the 5th wheel ic build. Some companies don't place enough steel in the frame. I wonder if that is the problem
The main problem is the frame! On camper built on the 20,000lb and up drop frames the way the pin box mount is assembled it is tucked really tight to the frame! It also depends on what pin box was used! For a few years grand design had a mixture either the lippert Rota-flex or Morryde pinbox! The ones with the Morryde would not have the issue but the lipperts did!
Just a suggestion a trailer saver hitch might help with the roughness and maybe some rear air bags on the truck could help smooth things out. Just an idea
We have airbags on the truck! The camper did not ride rough with the stock pinbox! A hitch change would not fix this as all brands have roughly the same adjustable heights 15 1/2 to 18 1/2 Inches off the bed floor! We needed bed rail clearance and it was only solved by changing the pinbox! We went with the Gen-Y because it offered the biggest gain and most adjustments! The torsion system was just a bonus!
Your pin box needs to be lowered, that will raise your camper up away from the bed. 👍🏼 I had the same problem. The tech at the dealership said you should have at least 6 inches up to 7.
The pin box was dropped to the lowest setting and my hitch was raised to the highest setting! This only gave us 5 inches of bedrail clearance! The Gen-Y solved our issues as we now have 8 inches of clearance and were able to level the trailer.
@@PavingNewPaths after posting my comment I thought, with all of research and effort you’re putting in to this situation, you probably already lowered the pin box . Excellent content though, I believe it we’ll be helpful to others. 👍🏼
@@xaviermartinez6642 Thank you for understanding that there was more to this problem than just adjusting a position! It's a very limited number of campers built on 20K lippert drop frames that come from the factory with a Lippert Rota Flex Pin box. When used with a 2017 or new truck from any brand you will likely have issues. Most of the manufacturers addressed this issue by switching to a morryde pinbox which gives about 2 more inches of clearance! Overall it is a very specific combination that but I meet them every day in campgrounds and am able to share my solution with them!
That didn't look like a difficult swap out at all. Nice job going through all the what's and why's for your choice.
It was a very easy swap, it was a lot easier eirh all the help I had from family members! This worked best for us because of all the available adjustment configurations you can achieve now for ride height and bed rail clearance! It had been almost a year now and we no longer worry about bed rail clearance issues!
Easy swap just don't underestimate the weight of the pinbox, any pinbox, but the more complex pinbox the more weight. Not to mention the sharp corners on the RV frame mounting flanges. Hurts to hit your head.....ask me how I know. 😂
That was a wise move going to a Gen Y Pin Box rather than a Morryde Pin Box.Have a DRV scaled @ 21k Morryde has way to much movement.Chucks back and forth up to 1 1/2" under moderate acceleration or braking./Contacted Morryde and talked to their field engineer, they had me pull it apart to see what # was on the rubber spring ,it was a #6 which is their highest rated spring rated for 18k.I asked them why they would put it on a trailer rated for over 21k ,they didn't know what to say. You can actually the movement on the teflon bushing.Next stop Gen Y Pion Box!
Thanks for watching! I only considered the mor-ryde because I took measurments on another momentum and the difference would helped, but not eliminated the problem.
Might look into a Western Hauler set up or one like it. Never worry about bed rail clearance again AND plenty of storage compartments. Would love one for our new truck but can't afford it just yet.
That was our next step if we ever damaged the bed! The Gen-Y solved our issues and allowed us to keep the bed!
i always worried about it and asked many salesman to them saying you "wouldn't have a problem". the other thing I noticed was that some pin boxes are longer then others and can have bed side clearance issues.
i have had to lower the tailgate on some crossings for clearance. After taking out my tailgate i fixed my issue for good by going to a western hauler bed and have loved it ever since.
We didnt have issues the first 6 months but its because we stayed on flat ground in Florida and Texas. Once we started heading out west our problem became a big deal. I looked at the flat bed option but was only going down that road if i ended up destroying my bed.
I like the maintenance and repair videos. Bring that Rota-Flex back to Texas and we’ll take it.
It's already back in Texas! I'm sure we can work something out!
You just have to be careful in those kind of sharp turns like that
Hi I pull RVs as a career, the 5th wheel plate in the bed should be at its highest level and lowest on the pin box as well. I have a 2007 Dodge Ram 3500, it’s super low and had previous issues as well until I did all what I said and problems solved.
Our fifthwheel was on the highest setting and the pin box was moved to the lowest setting! We still only had 5 1/2 inches. This issue only applies to 20k and up drop frame campers with a stock lippert pin box when hooked to a 2017 or newer truck! In 2017 they made the bed rails 2 inches taller!
Word of advice, torque should be applied with a torque wrench on the nut side not the head bolt side.
Thanks, this has been covered several times if you have a through bolted connection with no rotational friction then it doesn't matter what side the TQ wrench is on!
The break away switch needs to point forward
NOT DOWN
Thanks for watching! Good catch, the reason we left it down was the break away cable was a little short. We have already replaced the break away cable with a longer one and adjusted the switch to face forward.
@@PavingNewPaths we have same B&W companion 30k rated. How do you like the gen Y?
So far it has been great. We were after bed rail clearance when we got it. The torsion suspension system has been a great added benefit. If you get one you need to go scale your truck and then your trailer, and know your pin weight. Thats how they decide what model you need.
I did see one other solution. The individual cut the top four inches of his truck bed off. A bit radical, but effective.
Haha! That would make it work!
Just a heads up when you torque a bolt and nut, if you can use the torque wrench on the nut side if you use the bolt head add 10%.
Thank you! Also if it a through bolted connection with no rotation friction then it does not matter which side the tq wrench is on!
I have always heard that you must have the hitch over the axle or 1" in front of the axle. This is because when there is a bump in the road, and the pin is behind the axle, weight is taken off the front axle. Also when baking, the front of the axle setting is better to swing the trailer into the correct position. However I think that 1-3" will not make much of a difference.
Your CAT scale measurements show that there is only about 25 pounds (front axle weight) difference between 1" forward of the axle and directly over the axle, so I guess that is not a huge deal with your truck and trailer.
Yes! I have towed in all the positions to see how the ride changed! For us anything forward of the axle is rough over the axle is ok and 2 inches behind is the smoothest ride for the truck and the trailer! We did the other video testing how the weight changes because we were intersted in knowing how moving it actually affects the weight!
It’s because you have a 4 x 4. Can you Adjust the axle Height
It had nothing to do with the fact that it is 4x4! It had to do with the stock pinbox on the RV and the fact that the bedsides are now 2 inches tall on 2017 up model trucks!
If you go off road look at the goose necks. I like the companions never had a problem. I use the goose neck more than fifth wheel.
Since we installed the Gen-Y pinbox we have not had any more clearance issues and our ride has improved dramatically.
Great video. But mounting behind the rear axle will affect safety due to improper weight distribution.
Thank you! I also did a video about where the fifth wheel plate is according to the rear axle and it doesn't matter each inch is only 25lbs transfered between axles! You can check it out here! ruclips.net/video/I16SxEQJfAA/видео.html
Raise your fifthwheel. You should know you never go for minimums. I am comfortable wit 8 to 10 inches.
Fifth wheel was on the highest setting and the pin box was on the lowest setting to get 5 inches! We purchased the Gen-Y because it solved our clearance issues and allowed us to level the trailer!
You need 6-7 inches with 2017+ fords. If it tilts the trailer to far up then you need new springs for the trailer to lift it and make it level add shocks too. Or ditch the bed for a hauler setup and no more clearance issues.
Thanks! for watching! We were a little nose down prior to changing out the pin box. We have now been able to level the trailer by making adjustments to the B&W and still have 8 inches of clearance.
Problem is, you can't lift up these trailers without going over max legal height (13'6"). There's simply nowhere to go, they are all pretty much right at the "limit" already (that limit is established by bridge clearances set for tractor trailers). The right answer is "lower the truck", however, for some vehicles (like mine, F450) there's no easy way to do that.
@@michaelfink2070 Thanks for understanding the issues and research we have both done concerning this problem.
@@michaelfink2070 Tallest part is the a/c and I took those damn things off and replaced them with multi unit ductless mini split. I know that's not practical for everyone. Have you measured it? Most units are 13'4 and even when we did the leaf swap with the reg ac it came out 13'6.
@@Titanlessmatt I've not measured it yet; I was thinking about heading into one of the truck scales that offers a measurement, not sure I'd get a better number using a tape measure myself, would like to see what it is loaded, ready to travel, hook up, air in the Goosebox, air in the bags for the truck. I'm curious enough that I'll probably go to a truck height one of these days, but haven't done it yet. I'm going to swap my tires up to 85's, that'll give me another 1/2 an in, and I've already done the swap to an SRE4000, which is supposedly another 1/2" or so.
Just wish I could bring the truck down by about 3". That would be perfect. And I could, if I was willing to pay 10K for a Kelderman full air suspension. I'm considering it for my next truck if the big 3 don't have a come to Jesus and realize "Huh, these trucks are built to tow, and not for rock crawling, perhaps we don't need to be 3' off the ground".
I have a similar problem with my Momentum 398M..
Do you know what part number your Gen-y hitch is??
You order it based off the pin weight! The 5.5 model is (3.5K - 5.5K) pin weight and you want your actual pin weight to be in that middle range! He told me based off of experience of sales and talks with owners if you tow a toy in the garage go with the 5.5 model and if you don't go with the 6.5 model! We don't have a toy back there so we are very pin heavy and went with the 6.5 model!
I have the companion too. you can add lift by un bolting and using the different set of holes on the BW hitch. Feel free to contact me for more help.
Thanks for watching. I was on the highest setting for my B&W and could still only achieve 5 inches of bed rail clearance. Now with the new Gen-Y Pin Box installed I have had to lower the B&W down to the lowest setting to level my trailer and we still have 8 inches of bed rail clearance.
2006 Kodiak c4500 RV hauler
No big higher else to worry about
I would love something like that!
What you do is, you pull the fith wheel out the truck and put spacer bars between the bed and the fith wheel. I'd use about a 4 inch spacer bar and longer bolts.
We have a B&W Companion hitch that slides into the turnover ball socket in the bed! Adding spacers not only would not work it would be extremely unsafe when pulling a 20,000 camper! Our solution was to go with the Gen-Y pin box because not only does it solve our clearance issues with room for adjustment, but it is also designed to handle up to 30,000lbs with no additional components or items needed!
These issues start back on the drawing board when they are built from the factory they are not worried about height in the pin box it's all about ride height the higher the pin box the more the rear axles get out of wack and change one thing then other issues pop up been in the RV industry for over 36 years and be careful of the welds in the frame work as you go higher
It does go back to they way they built them! They have since stopped offering this configuration and have changed the pinbox weldment on the newer frames!
You always need a minimum of 6 inches or more. I’ve been a rv tech for 8 years and your problem is exactly that your only 5 inches. That’s not enough no matter what anyone says. Adjust your hitch or pin box. That’ll give you 6.5 inches and that would be perfect
Thanks for watching! The B&W was on the highest setting, and the stock rota-flex pin box was on the lowest setting and the clearance was 5 inchs. Therefore, our current configuration would not work, which is why we installed the new pin box. Now we have 8 inches of clearance and no more issues.
@@PavingNewPaths ok that makes more sense now. If you ever have any questions about anything let me know. I’m more than happy to help!
Thanks, we appreciate it!
@@PavingNewPaths your welcome
Make sure you always check your roof a/c hight after changing pin boxes. Dont want to be over 13foot 6in.
Hi, man I so wish I had your mind. Your thought process is amazing. Thanks for sharing your wisdom. 👋🙂
Thanks so much! Glad you enjoyed the video!
Glad you did this video! I’m getting ready to purchase a Grand Design and momentum and now I know what setup I want. Thank you!
Thanks for watching! It only seems to be an issue with the 20K drop frame models (376, 397, and the 399). On the G Class and M class models I believe the frame is different and the mounting position of the pin box is lower. The new momentums are now coming with the MORryde pin box, and it does offer more clearance than the Lippert but could still hit in the right circumstances!
I'd put steel plates under your fifth wheel hitch to eliminate your issue's..plating it will compensate your height issue
That might have been an option if i only needed an inch or less. However we needed 3 to 4 inches to eliminate our issues.
I heard the new trucks have taller bed rails so that might also be complicating things a bit.
That is the biggest issue we had to deal with! The 2017 and up trucks bed rails are 1.5 inches taller than previous models. The trucks have changed but the campers have not.
Not sure where you heard 5 inch clearance was enough. 7-8 is much better but you know that now.
Yes 5 inches is no where close to enough! We now have 8 inches and no more issues.
I've got a fifth wheel to gooseneck adapter. I use the t built adjustable model. Never had an issue like this. Not saying my setup is better that anyone else's, but just chiming in.
Thanks for sharing! There are many ways to solve this issue this was just my way to fix my problem.
@@PavingNewPaths I worried about clearance as well which is why I went with an adjustable with some offset. I'm running a 34' 5ver on a 92 F350. I've been down some pretty crappy roads on campgrounds as well as private property and haven't had an issue yet. I've got a 7.5 in my truck and looking to upgrade now and make this a farm truck, but I've read many times that newer Ford's are running into this. Glad you have me thinking as we are going looking next year and I think I'll stick with the goose. The only problem I ever have is it can be a rougher ride with it. Hope it fixes your problems and hope to see you on the road!
@@aegiscaleb Depending on the model and weight of your trailer some of those Adapters are Not Legal on the Interstate 👍
@@jamesglenn520 yeah some states are funny about it. I've went through a many of weight stations using the t built adapter and a Delco recon and new had issues. My B&W ball on one truck is rated for 30k, but the recon adapter is only rated at 20k I believe. Usually I only do 10k trailer weight on it. I'm not ever running more than 12k. No issues here, but like everything is is probably state dependent on laws
Happen to us when we switched trucks from 16 f350 didn't happen, then we got 20 f350 on a curt q25 and yes same problem with our redwood. Rv should have came with trail air with airbag but the send it out with a rotaflex.
Thank you for sharing! It is a combination of the truck bed sides getting taller and the standard cheap pin boxes on these big campers! What did you do to fix your issues?
This make me glad I bought a flat bed
Had we not addressed the problem we were on our way to needing a flatbed!
@@PavingNewPaths it's a good option. I like being able to access my in bed hitch easily from outside the vehicle. And removable bedsides if I need to haul cargo. That looks like a nice setup you have there.
@@Mike_Atwell For us we need our bed, we use it as a trunk when not towing the camper on our adventures! The Gen-Y solved our problem, its to bad Grand Design doesn't address this issue when building them!
@@PavingNewPaths stake pockets on the flat bed make it easy to have a cargo bed when you need it
@@Mike_Atwell We have a bed cover and can lock everything so we need things to not come up missing!
Once we ripped the beds off and put flatbeds on getting trailers into job sites was so much easier and less stressful.
Good idea if you don't need the bed of your truck!