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No quality assurance dept. No inspections? If I was going to spend less than 100 thousand on a van it had better be perfect operating. If not it’s going back. The motorhomes or vans should be inspected and reinspected if you sell it to me. And a warranty that is a buy back for a year.
The RV industry does this because they can get away with it. What is needed is lemon Law legislation that applies to RVs and requires dealers to buy back defective RVs😢
@@KeithK410 I associate a bail out with someone else, usually the taxpayers, having to pay for your poor judgment. This is not a bail out. It is a company that sold a shoddy product reimbursing the buyer. The fact that the buyer could have bought something cheaper is irrelevant. The item they purchased was faulty.
@@KeithK410 You are missing the point of this whole video. Tiffin needs to be exposed for the trash motor homes that they are building. Not only are these motor homes built terribly, but they are dangerous to drive. More and more videos are being made about this company and their shady practices. The only reason that someone might not get their refund is because Tiffin probably will not be around much longer.
My commercial mower that costs around $7000.Comes with a 3 year warranty.And I abuse the living hell out of it period have had thousands of dollars of things replaced... Funny to think I have better warranty coverage On a commercial lawn mower.
Yeah that’s ridiculous. Every major automaker in existence offers a minimum of 3 years 36,000 miles bumper to bumper warranty asnd up to 10year/100000 miles on structural/power train. RV makers should be offering nothing less for the money charged for these high end models.
@@rickw3243 Someone who makes 2-3+ million a year in income. Lots of people who make that kind of money same kind of people who buy new airplanes cost 600-800k. Many retired when Covid hit they were sitting on big 401k's and pensions in their mid to later 60's kids are gone got more money then ever spend and life is short. Spending 800k isn't really a big deal one of the reasons inflation is so high people spending like crazy.
You obviously don't know RVs, and that's cool. $800k gets you an AMAZING preowned Prevost conversion or Newell and none of these problems would be happening. Had you written "The first problem was... spending 800k on a Tiffin", then you would have made some sense.
I am a retired land developer and new home building contractor from Greenwich Connecticut. I want to thank you so much for putting this video out, I was ready to plop down close to a million dollars on a tiffin and because of their actions in this video I will not be buying their brand. Thanks again from Connecticut
Always buy used. You will save 50% instantly in depreciation collapse. Most of the issues will have been already worked out. But the best part, by not paying full price you now have Half that budged for maintenance, yet maintenance will never cost as much as the depreciation drop.
Same. In the market and have been trying to narrow my choices down but I am stunned by what this man has had to go through. And as he said, these are major problems ! If I was Mr. Tiffin heads would roll, a whole new management team would be under interview & this man's experience would never happen again. Maybe Tiffin should sell ..
I was in Land Development for 15 years back in the 90s and into the early 2000s to include residential, county, city, and commercial. Had loads of fun before I became a Defense contractor. I and my family are from CT and MA all the way back to 1603. I miss New England terribly!!!
I like a guy that stands up for himself because it’s good for all consumers. Everybody wins. The right thing to do and the smart thing is for the company to buy it back and quickly.
Very interesting! Our Tiffin is a 2011 - I would never buy a Covid RV from any company. We have had very very few problems with our Tiffin and it’s been 6 years since we purchased it. Just the normal wear and tear type things. My husband did notice there are no electrical schematics when our horn stopped working and he wanted to know which were the horn fuses and he called Tiffin for these. But everything else is good and no structural issues etc. I would advise buying an older model if buying an RV but as Liz says - have someone check it all over prior to buying.
Couldn’t agree more. We have a Covid build palazzo and it is junk. I am so glad we bought an entry level diesel pusher cause I can at least afford to upgrade everything that Thor did wrong. That company is the worst and run for the hills is correct.
People don't need to spend this kind of money on a motorhome in the first place. There was a better era from which to buy, and you'll save thousands. People just don't do their homework. That would tell you what you need to know.
You can actually spend $3 million on these. But no matter what it costs, the company NEEDs to stand by their product. Thanks for watching and stay tuned for the update.
A 1 year warranty for a $800,000 vehicle says "we don't think this thing will last long". I did some research on THOR Industries. It seems as if they buy companies like this and cut cost/quality to pocket more money for themselves and their shareholders.
that business model prevails just about everywhere now a days and its almost liike whatever i do i do not throw out 25 year old dryers and washers and fridges and tools etc etc unless they literally rot out !
The couple should never be embarrassed. To be able to afford that is awesome and I certainly couldn’t afford it. I hope things work out for them. Your videos are real eye openers for new, potential RV’ers.
Actually, they should feel embarrassed. How does a couple that has bought several millions of dollars worth of motorhomes not spend $1000-$1500 on a certified NRVIA inspection?
He certainly is a great example of how to tell the story! I plan to refer future interviewees to this video. Thanks for watching and stay tuned for an update.
We bought a new Tiffin Phaeton in 2005 and I am still living in it after traveling through the entire United States. No problems! Change of ownership seems to be tarnishing the "Tiffin" name, too bad. I am now a 80 year old widow and I hope to continue to live in my rig for all the time I have left. I love it!
@mary, I turn 73yo in a few weeks. 2003, we built our ExpeditionVehicle. Over two decades full-time live-aboard. . We have every intention of keeping going. Zero interest in a stand-still house.
I bought a brand new 2019 Tiffin Phaeton 37BH in July 2019. It was going to be my retirement dream. I sold it as fast as I could. What a nightmare. I got out of the RV business. I had the same problem with the turn signals, and dash air. I also asked for wiring diagrams and system schematics. Not available. It took 2 years to get those items fixed by the dealer along with other issues. The dually rear wheels were not mounted correctly and I had a flat on a inner wheel going down the road and damn near had one on the other side. The air mattress in the master bedroom lasted a year then went flat. The dealer was worthless. The sales process was a joke. No parts, no experience and long lead times for service. I had an oil pressure problem in the engine going downhill in the mountains. I paid Freightliner almost $1500 2 weeks before to do an oil change service and the they overfilled the engine oil by almost 2 gallons which caused the oil pressure problem (blocked engine breather). On the first trip I slipped on the slick-when-wet bathroom tile and had to go to the ER to get patched up. That still is a hazard apparently. Never again. Stay away. The Hilton is a lot cheaper and much less hassle and stress. And safer.
There is a saying with regards to boat owners and their 2 greatest days: The day they buy the boat and the day the sell the boat. Having watched a bunch of Liz's videos I am coming to the conclusion that the saying might apply here as well.
We had a small 2023 trailer that we enjoyed for one year. But it was way too small for us. We sold it and planned to buy something bigger, but now we’ve decided to get out of the RV life altogether. What a disappointment.
They need to buy it back immediately and offer him some compensation for what he and his wife have gone thru. Glad to see you are being a consumer advocate. This is an important channel. Thank you.
@@oldmanrock7542 it used to be one unhappy customer told eleven and so on. Now they tell thousands! Tiffen needs to buy it back. If he has to sue them he needs to sue for the personal stress not just to him but his wife too. Robin at creativity Rv hated her tiffen too. She’s actually had three she ditched. She has a fifth wheel she has parked. I’m not sure she can even move it anymore. She travels mostly in a mini airstream. She’s very open about each of the units she’s had and has.
The ability to sue depends on the specifics of the contract and the ability to finance the lawsuit. Poor quality is not only a problem in the RV business, but also new home construction. Poor craftmanship and the management just wanting to get the product completed and sold.
I was an RV salesperson back in the day. They do suffer a lot of issues being driven, like screws coming loose… etc. But there’s no way this couple should have to accept a piece of garbage with that kind of price tag! Tiffin should definitely buy it back, apologize profusely which would require humility, and learn from it!
Let me say it again: THANKS TO YOU Ms. Liz,. *You are amazing for stepping up and fighting on the front lines,* bringing much-needed awareness to these issues. *You are a hero. Please keep it up!* You’re doing a huge service to the world, especially to those who work hard to afford a decent mobile home, and whoever puts up their hard earned blood & sweat only to be taken advantage of. *Your recent videos on this channel are* (WELL PUT TOGETHER and) *hitting the right sources of these problems and helping people save from being robbed of their life invested money.*
You're asking who ? Recall the pet rocks ? I have a whole load waiting for a buyer as well as a bridge but you better hurry, I got them on sale with fire sale prices and the bridge is scheduled for demolition. No doubt, there will be inquiries about free shipping.
@@jamsout5735 You clearly haven't been in Country Coach, Beaver, Monaco all made with hard wood out of Lane County, OR. No cardboard there, sir. You also obviously don't know of Newell or the Prevost converters. Also no "cardboard" there either.
We are like the people gawking at a horrible car accident with these videos. I don't own an RV and never had any intention of ever buying one. I like this channel and it's a learning experience.
My wife and used to have aspirations of owning an RV till we started watching these nightmares. We would rather car camp than purchase one if these rolling nightmares.
@@mzm4245 I did this myself too , i bought a 1947 GMC PD3751 motorcoach that had been converted to an RV ,,it's 77 years old and doesn't leak and i can still get parts for it too
Our current RV is paid off next year and we were looking forward to upgrading. But thanks to channels like this, we are having serious second thoughts. We will definitely be holding on to our current RV that has zero problems. It was built in 2014 by Keystone and it's been a dream RV for us
Definitely hang on to the Keystone. The urge to get a new replacement is strong for many people, but the risk is high right now. You might consider doing some interior refreshing or your RV with flooring, upholstery, window treatments, and other cosmetic upgrades, so it feels newer.
If you decide to "upgrade", you should seriously consider looking at older, high end brands! You may have to upgrade a few small Technology things if you just have to have them, but the quality of a 30 year old Airstream is still better than a new fiberglass trailer. We are shopping for a Class A to live in and retire in full time and I can assure you that we will be buying a 25-30 year old Prevost or Newell or Foretravel before we buy any of this newer junk.
Hey, I can get you a pile of junk for only $250,000. That's a huge savings. But seriously, I would settle for nothing less than a 100% buy-back from Tiffin and then do the research to find the best possible coach out there. Thanks for all you do, Liz. Seriously, this is EXACTLY what we need in this wild, wild west of manufacturers.
Most RV manufacturers build around 60 RVs a day. Bob Tiffin used to build 6. They were quality. Since Thor bought out Tiffin, it seems like they ruined what Bob Tiffin worked so hard to build with his company. Thor is destroying the RV business. What a sad story. I hope the buyers get a refund.
Hearing a man like this commenting from knowledge and experience is priceless. These are the people missing from the production line in the first place. Great information, well done.
I was told years ago that the RV industry is an unregulated industry. There is no one making sure that these companies are putting these RV's together properly.
If the structural damage, the cracks in the structure is unrepairable that alone is enough to buy back the bus but this is a compounding issue of many separate issues that haven’t been addressed and that slip through the cracks. Kind of embarrassing but if it’s only a small percentage of a large percentage of sales, it happens, it happens we just have to buy back the bus use it for parts and move on.
I've been doing research on motorhomes for sone time, and i agree with the slogan, "if it is made by Thor, run for the door"! Maybe a few buybacks will open some manufacturer's eyes!! Thank you for continuing to advocate for RV owners!
Disheartening when I think of how great this company once was. Back in the 80's and 90's they were the best and they stood behind their products. A lot has changed.
My wife and I were thinking about getting into RVing. After watching all these videos about RV nightmares no way are we going to take the plunge. Some of these manufacturers are a total joke.
@@dhvoith - Ditto. We had a fun LITTLE 2023 trailer as a starter, but we couldn’t really do long distance travel in it. We sold it and intended to buy a larger trailer, but now we’re pretty sure we don’t want to chance it.
@@JudiToohey I get it. I consider myself a fixit guy but within reason. Water leaks, cracks, electrical and plumbing problems should never show up in a new vehicle. Those repairs should be handled by the manufacturer or the dealer.
I have travelled throughout the US, and have never been foolish enough to buy one, I only rent them. There have been several times where they have broken down and all of the costs were carried by them, and in more extreme cases they had to retrieve the RV and drop off a replacement, they have to pay for hotel rooms if needed and I have never paid a dime out of pocket, the most expensive one (similar to the Tiffin) cost $350 a day but after spending $20K for two months I gave it back and don’t have any of the costs associated with owning one, including storage, maintenance and insurance and depreciation, I have never dealt with the downside and have had some of the best travel experiences in my life while traveling the US in an RV. Renting is the only way to go.
There are high quality RVs out there. I bought a new Oliver in 2023, and after a year and a half I have had no issues. My experience is not uncommon. Every Oliver owner I know is extremely happy with the quality and service Oliver delivers. I love RVing and not having to worry about the issues that plague the big brands. Other reputable brands include Escape, Casita, Big Foot, Outdoors RV, Arctic Fox, and Leisure Travel Vans. Take a look at any one of these brands and enjoy all the freedom that owning a reputable, quality-built RV affords you.
LIz, thanks for all your videos. I've owned a Tiffin Allegro Bus for three years with minimal issues. Our Bus was preowned with low mileage, but we still got an independent RVIA inspection. We would never buy any motorhome or a house without an independent inspection. Our coach is a 2019, pre-Thor and pre-pandemic so maybe not a good comparison but Tiffin has been responsive to our needs. I wouldn't rule them out when looking for a quality coach.
This industry is in shambles. I have much smaller scale problems - just got my 2024 Jayco Whitehawk back from the dealer because my slide wall is detaching from the floor. Jayco denied the work the tech said it needed and basically said just put it all back together. I was going to trade it in but after checking out even higher end alternatives I've decided they are all pretty much trash too. Might as well just make independent repairs out of pocket since the warranty is really worthless. I wouldn't even trust the factory to make proper repairs anyway - given they designed the trash in the first place!
@@tooltime9260 short of legal action companies honor their warranties because they care about their reputation. Jayco and most in this industry know what their reputation is and act accordingly. I'd rather have it repaired correctly and the RV dealer is the LAST place that will do it right. So no, I did not "mess up"
I owned a Tiffen( 40’ bus) for many years. Lived in it for 1 year. Back in the day, I paid $180k. I calculated when I sold it, we could have flown 1st class on every trip and stayed at $1500/night hotels for the money I put in coach. My advice is to never one of these new but buy it used. They depreciate just like a car only worse. I realized 80K when I sold it a few years later.
@@Ziegfried82 It's way more comfortable and much cheaper to stay in a nice hotel than it is to own any motorhome. Even renting one for a few days costs as much a nice, comfortable hotel room with a stout bolt on the door. Motorhomes look far too easy to break into.
slippery shower floor: 10 bucks for friction strips; takes 5 mins to put down hot and cold reversed: dang, just reverse them again; takes 5 mins. I never understood the whole RV thing; it just looks like a ton of work to me, and you don't get free waffles in the morn.
The point is that paid a million bucks for the thing and don’t feel that for that kind of money they should be dealing with these kinds of mistakes and oversights. I 100% agree with them on that. With that said I would probably (like you said) just take care of those two things myself BUT it needed to go back for other issues anyway.
I am currently driving a 25 yr old Dutch Star DP. Still working great! I”M afraid that good old corporate greed raises its ugly head yet again. Welcome to America.
@tim, A bus has a frame. A BillionBuxBus conversion is a trampoline. . To verify the difference, look under a school-bus. They are engineered to protect riders. A RecreateVehicle is engineered to protect committees of accountants.
In February I got me a 1996 Holiday Rambler Endeavor LE 36' with 23000K miles 141 hours on the generator just needs a paint job and it's mine I couldn't afford a one million dollar motor home ever in my life but I'm very happy.
Be careful, I had a 99 HR Endeavour and it had the cracked supports for the coach. There was a recall, I was on the list to have it done, but then HR went bankrupt and Navistar bought them but didn't honor the recalls. I ended up stuck with a defective coach. Lots of roof leaks, sunken floors, binding slide out, and busted plumbing. RVs are built like crappy sheds, even the good ones.
Hello Liz, I came across your channel and I’m so glad I did. I have been looking into RV’s for a couple years. Thank you for doing this.. Stay safe out there. Amen
We purchased a Tiffin too a few years go. After 5 trips for repairs we went on a two week trip . Sold it for a loss on the way home because it developed even more problems. Tiffins response was bring it back and buy another one for more $ . Nope. Bought an airstream instead
Just like in Mercedes Benz cars, especially after 2020 or so. Wonderful cars when they work, terrible when they don't which is quite often. My 2022 SL63 had 8! recalls addressed at its last service...
Liz, you NEED to go to the biggest RV show in the country next month in Hershey PA. If you can setup a booth to inform people, do it. Once the industry sees the difference that you are making and the number of people that you are influencing, they'll have to make serious changes. Do it Liz ... Go to Hershey!
@@randyneilson7465 Your correct, the RV industry reps would call for a SWAT team to get her out. A BOOTH! never in forever! The industry wants Liz in a coffin. They are likely emailing Boeing for advice.
will never happen EVEN if you got in they would just call them liars and they would have fake paperwork to back it up. NOW what does work is pulling a permit and sitting outside the dealership on the weekends with signs and the rv. I did this with a defective jetski. parked off to the side of their entrance off the main road. FIRST they called the cops, i showed my permit, i was not blocking traffic or the sidewalk and i was on the county's right of way (x number off feet on the side of the road) cops went in told the guy, owner followed the cops out and offered to fix it AND paid me back the 75 for the permit.
I was looking at a Tiffin RV recently and almost decided to purchase until I started watching your videos. You have probably saved me a lot of money and frustration. Thankyou.
What a godsend Liz is to these folks who are finding themselves up against these big corporations alone. When I stumbled upon her channel last year, I was probably a month or two away from dropping about $200k on an RV. I'm literally thankful every day that I waved off. The RV industry is in shambles and there are PLENTY of folks out there who will gladly rent out their RV or camper for your trips. Keep fighting the good fight, Liz!
I bought a Vanleigh 5th wheel in 2018. It also had the blinker wire reversed. They were absolutely wonderful about fixing stuff but the broken stuff was never ending. Finally, when the front cap separated from the ‘house’ where I could stand outside and see inside my bedroom through the separation, i had it repaired and sold it. I have PTSD from that unit and would love to buy another RV but I am too scared.
In total agreement. If THOR is in any way connected with a model of RV, stay the heck away from it. It’s all the fancy looking glitter that attracts unsuspecting customers. THIR should be ban from doing business!
Rv's are not assembled in a manner lending to major repairs. RV's are assembled in such a manner that deconstruction damages the materials surrounding the point of repair . Everything is built on top of everything else, mostly out of pine, pressboard,styrofoam, and laminate. Good times!
Where do I buy an RV which is NOT made in America? Am I out of touch? Never met anyone who had an RV NOT made in America? Is China making RVs and bringing them over??
All these companies have money making strategies but no quality improving strategies. I will never purchase a Tiffin after they came after you earlier this year. They, the RV industry, needs to wake up or they will be forced out of business by their own greed and lack of responsibility. Thank you for all you do, Liz. I believe you are doing a great job.
Million dollar home on wheels all cracked up and leaking. Work hard your whole life, buy your dream RV, and it turns into nightmare RV. Sad. Thank you for sharing tiffin RV problems!
Buy a proper bus and have someone local convert it for you. I have a Prevost shell bought used, the conversion done by a local carpenter, I've done all the electrical and plumbing. Total cost $160K and built solid.
@@tdgdbs1 We are frequent contributors on vanLiving and other home-built forums. After owning any level of factory RecreateVehicle, everybody always builds their next rig. . Nobody says: * "Our 2024 factory RecreateVehicle is junk, but the factory will have all the bugs worked-out for our new rig in 2025!"
Thank you Liz Amazing for the great work you do. Sometimes I comment on other RUclips channels when they are selling new RVs. Other channels sometimes show new recreational vehicles, I sometimes comment about the high prices and also I recommend your channel, Liz Amazing and recommend that people learn and investigate before they invest. I never owned an rv, and I don't want one now after seeing your videos. But I do promote your program because I think you probably are a big help not only to victims of bad RV purchases, but maybe you will motivate the industry to do a overall better job building those things. Upvote.
It appears Tiffin is more concerned about how their coaches look (glitzy) rather than how they work. I'd rather have a butt-ugly functional camper than a broken pretty one.
Hi Liz, unfortunately the poor craftsmanship is throughout the entire RV industry, from $3,500 pop ups to multi million dollar coaches, it’s absolutely sickening. My wife and I own a 2004 TrailBay 27DS, had it since new. We’d love to upgrade to a new fifth wheel, however, with as poorly as RV are being manufactured, we don’t want to take a chance and get screwed! There needs to be more regulation on RV manufactures, something to hold them accountable for quality issues and to protect the buyer.
PLEASE stay away from anything made by Heartland ! They killed us with the 3610 RV 5th Wheel 2012 Edition. Every possible Option to start of our retirement, Turned out to be a nightmare from week 2 ! Lost our shirts !
@@kathykeene2092 Doesn’t matter who has a good name. Currently ALL RV manufactures, including high end multi million dollar coaches are being built under quality. Start reading RV forms, you’ll find out just how bad people are having with RV’s built since 2020, it’s sickening. God Bless you, I pray the unit you have or are thinking of buying will be of good quality. 🇺🇸
@@JT-1969 There are reputable RV manufactures. Liz featured Oliver on this channel as an example. I bought my Oliver new in January 2023. I've had no issues with it whatsoever. My experience is typical of every Oliver owner I've met. Other reputable brands include Bigfoot, Escape, Casita, Outdoors, Arctic Fax, and Leisure. These are smaller, privately-owned companies that do take pride in their products and deliver exceptional customer service.
With all due respect, try to find someone who can pass a drug screen and a background check that hasn’t had at least two prior felony charges. And possess any skill level beyond video gaming in their parent’s basement. Oh and wants to work for $15/hr. Who do you think cooks your carry out bag food?
This isn't an employee issue. This is a management issue. I guarantee you that if you put a competent management team in place they will create an environment where employees are proud to work there and bring their best every day. Building that kind of culture isn't sexy. Going on "business trips" and swinging deals - that's sexy. Why bother actually building a competent workforce with the right tools and processes? That's not fun. And that's what you get. These clowns will be out of business in a year or two and then blame it on everything but themselves.
I love it when people who own big (or even small) RV's say, "We're going camping." No. You're not, 'going camping', you're going, 'motor-homing'. And at state or national park camping grounds, they have designations of, "Camping", and, wait for it... "'Primitive Camping". "Camping", usually by the fresh, wild stream, is for the people with dishwashers, microwave ovens, couches, beds and tv's and computers in their motor-home with internet access provided. "Primitive" camping, is for folks with tents who are really camping, with no stream nearby, no electric power or tap water, etc. What a sick society. We've extended our psychotic, 'car culture' to camping out.
We just sold our 5th wheel and its one of the best days ever. The dream of being free on the open road was overshadowed by the constant feeling of "whats gonna happen next?" I cant imagine being one of the unfortunate folks who put all their retirement plans into one of these poorly built, lipstick on a pig cracker boxes. The only thing worse than the quality of the coach was the arrogance of the dealership after I bought the trailer. I'm just glad it's over.
I would invest 800k. Drive a cheap 200k miles odometer car, rent, and stay in motel 6 on vacation. Then hang out with Beautiful women at the beach all weekend.
@@user-bh7dm8dr3m He should just buy a new one but from a better vendor for $1,300K and sell the old one at a loss. Get some after market high quality mattress (ad), fill up the refrigerator with some steaks and lobster and go on vacation somewhere nice.
I am living in Canada and are originally from Germany. I used to work on vehicles a lot in my life. Generally spoken, these big campers are banged together extremely rough and cheap.
In some documentary, I saw an assembly line for these. I have worked in home building/construction. The materials and techniques were very cheap and light- because it is mobile/RV. It looks like a home on the outside, but the systems and structural integrity are far, far below any home standard. Even for 800k, you are right. It is, "banged together".
They are no longer in business but in a previous job I had the honor of getting a guided tour through the Blue Bird company in Ft Valley, GA that made Wanderlodge Coaches, from the jigs used to make the frame, to upholstery shop, custom cabinet makers, etc., etc. Each coach had the name of the future owners and they could come to the factory at anytime to see the progress, make changes, meet the craftsman, etc. Upon completion they had their own campground to teach folks and made sure everything ran right. I met one of their techs and he was one of the mechanics that went on the road when a coach broke down and got it repaired and back running. His recent trip was to Yellowstone Park. In closing if I had the money and wanted a motorcoach I would scour the country for a Wanderlodge and restore it to an original condition. They truly were and still are palaces on wheels! If anybody reads this and owns a Wanderlodge I want them to tell me if I am stretching the truth.
By the way they are no longer in business because the original owners, The Luce Family, sold the business to Volvo and then it was sold to an English firm and now it is owned by another company. They decided to concentrate on just making Bluebird gas, diesel and EV school buses. The company from England almost ran the company into the ground. Another owner was the financial firm of Morgan Stanly, they literally bled the company dry before dumping them.
Wow, I am shocked, but not surprised VC ripped the guts out of the company. I was a teenager in the early 80's and my dad bought two brand new Wanderlodges. We went to the factory often getting g tours and then hanging out in the factory campground. Last time we were there in probly 1982.. a blk coach pulled in next to us at the campground. We are sitting g out side and tge blk coach door opened...it was Johnny F'in Cash😮..he was getting his personal WL getting upgraded. He hung out with us about an hour..wild times...
@@TheBlazeboy69 What an adventure. I had to drive past the factory a lot and noticed a lot of the coaches parked for delivery awaiting p/u by their owners had custom trailers attached in the same paint scheme as the coach. They were beautiful. I was told one time that some of them were custom coaches and shipped to the oil rich Middle East. What wonderful memories for you and your family.
@@louisstennes3 That's all Morgan Stanley is good for- equity-stripping businesses they acquire and destroying them to line the pockets of MS shareholderes.
I think Tiffin should buy it back. I had a similar experience with an Winnebago. The slide motor went bad, the leveling system went bad, the furnace went bad , gas was leaking from the propane tank. It was brand new. I feel for this couple. It is a nightmare that should never happen. I will never RV again. Awful experience and memories
I am rather attracted to the big Class A motorhomes and love the way designers arrange the space in them. But after watching so many videos and reading about the appallingly low quality of so many of these big, expensive rigs that often cost as much as a very nice house, I've put aside any thought of buying one unless I find myself rich enough to spring for a Prevost Liberty or Marathon, the only makes worth owning. I'm shocked to hear how badly Winnebago and Tiffin RVs are made now, for those used to be of fairly good quality.
@Karen RecreateVehicle manufacturers own congress-critters and bureaucrats and judges. Perhaps you noticed... congress-critters and bureaucrats and judges don't work for you.
We have a pre pandemic class c .The insurance is paid annually ,this year it went up over 150.00 .We called and asked why and our agent explained that another insurance provider has dropped RV insurance ,I believe he said allstate ,due to all the complaints and issues recently .So basically our RV has zero issues ,but yet I'm being punished for the horrible manufacturing since the pandemic .
@@volksfolks62 - Wow. I never even considered the domino effect like this. Watch insurance companies now start to limit what they’ll cover (in fine print, of course).
I worked in manufacturing my whole career. We made complex electronics. Failures happened all the time. These RVs because of size complexity training, employee, documenting. They will never be built correctly. If you buy one know it will fail on multiple levels and.points. first test I would do is get five water hoses and pour water on the roof for about an hour. LEAK TEST
That's a far more sensible use of your money. The home will at least appreciate in keeping with inflation as long as the neighborhood is good, while the RV will lose half its value the minute you drive it off the lot even if it's not riddled with defects. The home will also offer 4X as much space at least that is cheaper to heat, cool, and maintain, and it's a lot more secure and comfortable.
Tiffin needs to buy it back, period. That's unacceptable. I'm also dealing with issues with our coach due to permanent damage caused by inexperienced technicians at Campers Inn. Our dealer should take responsibility and buy our coach back, it's ridiculous.
We bought new Phaeton and it was in the shop 185 days the first year. Tiffin never stand up to promises they make. Our entire front of the couch had to come off twice. The refrigerator had to be replaced along with jacks, leaks on drivers side. Wall between bathroom and kitchen redone. Believe me buying better has nothing to do with quality because there is no pride in what is made any more. What I would love is too have my 21’ kit companion Sunchaser back.
In the automotive world, more money means better quality, design and materials. Not in the RV industry. Unbelievable. And it’s been like this for over 40 years. When Toyota and Lexus start building RV’s, these scammers will be out of business.
Well my 24 foot REV Dynamax 2018 that I live out of never breaks down for the last 6/7 years plus 15 miles to the gallon and you can park it in one parking spot.
@@sashamoore9691 Either a full warranty or a limited warranty can be offered by the manufacturer. When you buy a car, the parts and assemblies are sourced by the manufacturer from a lot of different companies but it is the car manufacturer that offers the warranty to the end user. The car manufacturer will have agreements in place with their various suppliers regarding any warranties provided from the supplier to them but that has no bearing on the warranty the car manufacturer offers you. For legal reasons, you rarely get a "full warranty" on any product, what you get is a "limited warranty". There is not enough space here to go into the differences. I am not shooting from the hip, I handled warranty operations for a major international manufacturer and my territory included the United States.
My first clue on this is when the buyer said “we were in a hurry”. That’s how you make a bad purchase and/or decision. People buying a $400,00 house have an inspection and you make sure everything is working before you take possession. The fact that this coach had so many problems that they didn’t know about before driving away was their fault as much as the seller.
I totally agree with the owner of this Tiffin. I would expect near if not 100% perfection at this price point. This needs to be bought back immediately.
Tiffen needs to buy the vehicle back! i’m so happy you put this out because my wife and i were considering purchasing a new Zephyr… Not now this is a sad story. Thanks again Liz
Not going to work. The RV industry knows what they are doing. They have boatloads of lawyers and they have run the numbers. They make more money building junk and hardly fixing it than building quality to begin with. If they made more money making quality they would do that. People keep signing contracts.
Absolutely not. This is a recent headline "Subaru Settles Fuel Pump Class Action, Lawyers Get $15.5 Million vs. $81,250 for Owners". That's not per owner, that's shared by all owners. Class action is bad for owners.
They do. If it aint breaking you aint RV'ing! Sure hoteling it is more cost effective. However, there are something that a motorhome can bring you that is priceless and you just have to pencil it out. For us we do dog shows and being on the show grounds, having a toilet when traveling and bring the dogs with us when not at dog shows is worth the expense of ownership. Go for one 8 years old, get an inspection and pay cash.
I am so happy you posted this. Tiffin needs to buy back that coach. That many issues are just crazy. I am about to purchase a motor home, but was thinking more of a SUPER C. WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS?
Guess there's only Newmar left for reasonably dependable luxury coaches. Too rich for my blood but I'd get an inspection no matter what the coach costs or who makes it.
@@celestepalm6949 Newmar and the Prevost rebuilders like Marathon and Liberty. I would not buy a motorcoach unless I could afford at least a 5 to 10-year-old Marathon or Liberty, which cost about $800,000 these days. They are the finest motorcoaches in the world as they are rebuilt Prevost highway buses, built to run a million miles, and known for 50 years for their exceptional quality.
Until government implements proper consumer protection laws for the RV industry I'm staying out of it. Yeah I'll give up that lifestyle for Air BnBs, VRBOs and hotels but thats the price I'll pay!
I think you mean "that's the savings I will pay". Cost of RV and depreciation, truck and gas/diesel, site fees, maintenance, etc., it's cheaper to stay in hotels.
@@keithallsop I mostly agree! while we really enjoy some elements of RVing, we've decided that in our retirement, we will purchase a comfortable minivan and travel the country. In comparison, a Honda or Toyota is virtually trouble free in comparison to the RV industries utter garbage. If we wind up with a terrible Air BnB....We leave and head to another and not look back.
@keithallsop RVing isn't for you. It's cheaper to go to the store and buy fish than it is to go fishing but we still fish. RV's are awesome homes away from home.
@@jeffwhite3021 - summered in RV's many a time. Don't assume anything just because I am not a cheerleader for junk RV's. Poor quality RV's are not for anyone. A lemon can happen, but then the customer service is terrible and they don't get fixed before the "warranty" expires.
the thing is an inspection of a brand new coach would not have revealed the de-lamination, stress crack or leaks once the mold is in the walls/ceiling the coach is junk
@@LizAmazing not criticizing you it does seem that it would be better to get a used unit and have it inspected like you say because some of these issues simply cannot be found out before the unit is in actual use - something that can't be done w/ a brand new unit
We don't know when the leaking started, but sometimes it is immediate. And like Liz said there were definitely issues that would have failed an inspection and perhaps those alone would have deterred the buyers. Also, I wonder if the buyers did any research beforehand. Angry buyers want to talk. The gentleman did say he wished they had done a factory tour first, but I bet they would have found negative info online on FB groups and RV forums.
@@backtoasimplelife I think in a lot of cases, it's hard to know what is real and what isn't when doing research. Sometimes it's hard to believe they would mess things up that bad. Wouldn't have believed how bad they could mess up the wiring until we bought our current boat. Our previous boats never had problems like that. It's like COVID was the big excuse for these manufacturers to just toss out crap.
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📺 Videos mentioned
Big problem with your luxury DRV: ruclips.net/video/DP_zoVFmMek/видео.html
Can we trust our RV? ruclips.net/video/rownphniqFA/видео.html
THIS was missing from their new RV: ruclips.net/video/6nHo9xhlt6s/видео.html
Is RUclips HIDING my channel? ruclips.net/video/H18GyZffGO8/видео.html
Update on their RV nightmare: ruclips.net/video/xvkvZ0gZA8A/видео.html
STILL not fixed: ruclips.net/video/XeiF6lnuyOY/видео.html
RV maker blames customer: ruclips.net/video/A3wVqdq67F0/видео.html
This video caused Jayco to buy it back: ruclips.net/video/4L6i4yr4wx0/видео.html
This video caused Alliance to buy it back: ruclips.net/video/PV_ytjlyZ7w/видео.html
This video caused Fun Town RV dealer to buy it back: ruclips.net/video/XeiF6lnuyOY/видео.html
Tour a DRV luxury fifth wheel: ruclips.net/video/tnukqEFNGuA/видео.html
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Full buyback with a large interest payment. In short, get a lawyer and sue their asses off.
Someone who is dyslectic set up the motorhome. Backwards. This company should. It this coach back. He paid a million dollars for this hunk of junk.
No quality assurance dept. No inspections?
If I was going to spend less than 100 thousand on a van it had better be perfect operating. If not it’s going back. The motorhomes or vans should be inspected and reinspected if you sell it to me. And a warranty that is a buy back for a year.
Tiffin should buy it back from them. Then keep it to use it for an example of the lousy mistakes They made.
This advertisement along is going to leave a black eye on tiffin motorhomes. If I were tiffin I’d be so embarrassed that it was built so badly.
The RV industry does this because they can get away with it. What is needed is lemon Law legislation that applies to RVs and requires dealers to buy back defective RVs😢
Something's got to change! Thanks for watching and stay tuned for the update.
They would all go bankrupt
@@censoredeveryday3320Good! Let 'em go bankrupt and let a new batch of entrepreneurs come in and start the industry over from scratch!
The government can't even fix their own problems, let alone an rv manufacturer, unless they're conservative.
@@LizAmazing keep up your excellent research and work. We need more people like you who truly care. Best regards 🌲🌳
A million dollars for all those broken things? Disgusting
It's a crime! Thanks for watching and stay tuned for an update.
A crime and tragedy 😔
I don't think you understand. There's NO-CHARGE for the broken things. lol
A deer 🦌 in the headlights
Yelp he got run over A million bucks
A fool and his money 💸
What a sucker. Million bucks to throw away. Bet you had your home thoroughly inspected before you bought it.
The biggest problem with RVs, which I've had a few, is that they are too small. You need at least room for a live-in mechanic.
😂❤
😂😂😂
Ahhh. Love it.
And forget about mobile mechanics.
Ha ha hence van life!!!
Tiffin owes this couple a FULL refund! Every penny returned and they should even pay them at least $10,000 for pain and suffering.
That will never happen, the Tiffins didn’t get rich giving refunds
I agree. Full refund plus $10K for their trouble.
@@gobigorange
@@KeithK410 I associate a bail out with someone else, usually the taxpayers, having to pay for your poor judgment. This is not a bail out. It is a company that sold a shoddy product reimbursing the buyer. The fact that the buyer could have bought something cheaper is irrelevant. The item they purchased was faulty.
@@KeithK410 You are missing the point of this whole video. Tiffin needs to be exposed for the trash motor homes that they are building. Not only are these motor homes built terribly, but they are dangerous to drive. More and more videos are being made about this company and their shady practices. The only reason that someone might not get their refund is because Tiffin probably will not be around much longer.
A year warranty on a motorhome that costs a million dollars. That's mental!
That should be a deal-breaker right there. It screams we don't have much faith in the longevity of our product
My commercial mower that costs around $7000.Comes with a 3 year warranty.And I abuse the living hell out of it period have had thousands of dollars of things replaced... Funny to think I have better warranty coverage On a commercial lawn mower.
Heheh they should have called Carshield hahaha.
used twice in a year LOL
Yeah that’s ridiculous. Every major automaker in existence offers a minimum of 3 years 36,000 miles bumper to bumper warranty asnd up to 10year/100000 miles on structural/power train. RV makers should be offering nothing less for the money charged for these high end models.
The first problem was.... Spending 800k on a motorhome
Right! Who spends $800k on a motorhome?
I've been in the facility, I wouldn't pay 200k for a motorhome from there.
@@rickw3243 Someone who makes 2-3+ million a year in income. Lots of people who make that kind of money same kind of people who buy new airplanes cost 600-800k. Many retired when Covid hit they were sitting on big 401k's and pensions in their mid to later 60's kids are gone got more money then ever spend and life is short. Spending 800k isn't really a big deal one of the reasons inflation is so high people spending like crazy.
If you have no interest in this product at this price point, why are you here? Do you opinion on expensive yachts too?
You obviously don't know RVs, and that's cool. $800k gets you an AMAZING preowned Prevost conversion or Newell and none of these problems would be happening.
Had you written "The first problem was... spending 800k on a Tiffin", then you would have made some sense.
I am a retired land developer and new home building contractor from Greenwich Connecticut. I want to thank you so much for putting this video out, I was ready to plop down close to a million dollars on a tiffin and because of their actions in this video I will not be buying their brand. Thanks again from Connecticut
Always buy used. You will save 50% instantly in depreciation collapse. Most of the issues will have been already worked out. But the best part, by not paying full price you now have Half that budged for maintenance, yet maintenance will never cost as much as the depreciation drop.
Stick to real estate dude..
Same. In the market and have been trying to narrow my choices down but I am stunned by what this man has had to go through. And as he said, these are major problems ! If I was Mr. Tiffin heads would roll, a whole new management team would be under interview & this man's experience would never happen again. Maybe Tiffin should sell ..
Just make sure the company hasn't been absorbed by Thor industries, before you buy.
I was in Land Development for 15 years back in the 90s and into the early 2000s to include residential, county, city, and commercial. Had loads of fun before I became a Defense contractor. I and my family are from CT and MA all the way back to 1603. I miss New England terribly!!!
I like a guy that stands up for himself because it’s good for all consumers. Everybody wins. The right thing to do and the smart thing is for the company to buy it back and quickly.
Thor purchased Tiffin 4 years ago. There is the answer.
Either that or the fact that Bob Tiffin is no longer running the company. Thanks for watching and stay tuned for an update.
Yes, THOR is a dirty word now.
@@backtoasimplelifeThor has been a dirty word for years!
BUY IT BACK, FROM A MONACO OWNER
Very interesting! Our Tiffin is a 2011 - I would never buy a Covid RV from any company. We have had very very few problems with our Tiffin and it’s been 6 years since we purchased it. Just the normal wear and tear type things. My husband did notice there are no electrical schematics when our horn stopped working and he wanted to know which were the horn fuses and he called Tiffin for these. But everything else is good and no structural issues etc. I would advise buying an older model if buying an RV but as Liz says - have someone check it all over prior to buying.
Apparently, and IMO, Thor has ruined another company. If the company is owned by Thor, run for the door!
I like it, that's a great slogan! Thanks for watching and stay tuned for the update.
Thor and Forest River...
Couldn’t agree more. We have a Covid build palazzo and it is junk. I am so glad we bought an entry level diesel pusher cause I can at least afford to upgrade everything that Thor did wrong. That company is the worst and run for the hills is correct.
Yea everything Thor touches turns to crap
By 2026, Thor will make everything
Refund their money and quit making Motorhomes.
Oh wow!!! Thanks for watching and stay tuned for the update.
Lol. Well there’s that
That's pretty much exactly what I said
Ditto!!
yep....that's my thinking
The number one red flag is when the manufacturer argues with you. Total disrespect. So thankful for videos like this warning other buyers.
People need to stop buying these coaches. Period. $1M will buy a lot of luxury hotel nights
Totally agree. Or at the very least, do some research on the product you're buying for $1M.
People don't need to spend this kind of money on a motorhome in the first place. There was a better era from which to buy, and you'll save thousands. People just don't do their homework. That would tell you what you need to know.
You can actually spend $3 million on these. But no matter what it costs, the company NEEDs to stand by their product. Thanks for watching and stay tuned for the update.
@LizAmazing you can actually spend 4 million on these
Will also buy a LOT of charter flights.
A 1 year warranty for a $800,000 vehicle says "we don't think this thing will last long". I did some research on THOR Industries. It seems as if they buy companies like this and cut cost/quality to pocket more money for themselves and their shareholders.
that business model prevails just about everywhere now a days and its almost liike whatever i do i do not throw out 25 year old dryers and washers and fridges and tools etc etc unless they literally rot out !
@@brewcrew5854Cars too
It ain't just the RV industry....it's everybody ... Deregulation is the cause
Private Equity will eventually destroy this country.
@@bsmith4u2 TEMU is the next company destroying America.
How to turn $1Million into $1000.00? Buy a luxury RV and drive it off the lot.
That seems true.
Amen
No discussion needed…do the right thing Tiffin and refund the money.
The couple should never be embarrassed. To be able to afford that is awesome and I certainly couldn’t afford it. I hope things work out for them. Your videos are real eye openers for new, potential RV’ers.
yeah im out now buying one
Actually, they should feel embarrassed. How does a couple that has bought several millions of dollars worth of motorhomes not spend $1000-$1500 on a certified NRVIA inspection?
How do you know they can afford it? The RV industry will loan you as much as you want....
@@thetube007 This! "more money than sense" comes to mind...
Wow! This is the best video you posted so far. This owner was phenomenal. BUY IT BACK, Tiffin!
He certainly is a great example of how to tell the story! I plan to refer future interviewees to this video. Thanks for watching and stay tuned for an update.
U wonder how they can afford a million dollar motor home ?
RIPPING OFF THE POOR PEOPLE !!!!
We bought a new Tiffin Phaeton in 2005 and I am still living in it after traveling through the entire United States. No problems! Change of ownership seems to be tarnishing the "Tiffin" name, too bad. I am now a 80 year old widow and I hope to continue to live in my rig for all the time I have left. I love it!
I only hope someday to do the same. Killing myself with overtime, gonna need a break eventually. Bless you & enjoy your journey!
@mary,
I turn 73yo in a few weeks.
2003, we built our ExpeditionVehicle.
Over two decades full-time live-aboard.
.
We have every intention of keeping going.
Zero interest in a stand-still house.
Liar
Great to hear the opposite side , too. Unfortunately these kind of name purchases happen often.
Thanks for reminding me to stay off the road with an 80 year old roaming the highways behind the helm of one of these behemoths
Liz, thank you. Unfortunately, I have lost faith in Tiffin. We cancelled ours today.
I bought a brand new 2019 Tiffin Phaeton 37BH in July 2019. It was going to be my retirement dream. I sold it as fast as I could. What a nightmare. I got out of the RV business.
I had the same problem with the turn signals, and dash air. I also asked for wiring diagrams and system schematics. Not available. It took 2 years to get those items fixed by the dealer along with other issues. The dually rear wheels were not mounted correctly and I had a flat on a inner wheel going down the road and damn near had one on the other side. The air mattress in the master bedroom lasted a year then went flat. The dealer was worthless. The sales process was a joke. No parts, no experience and long lead times for service. I had an oil pressure problem in the engine going downhill in the mountains. I paid Freightliner almost $1500 2 weeks before to do an oil change service and the they overfilled the engine oil by almost 2 gallons which caused the oil pressure problem (blocked engine breather).
On the first trip I slipped on the slick-when-wet bathroom tile and had to go to the ER to get patched up. That still is a hazard apparently.
Never again. Stay away. The Hilton is a lot cheaper and much less hassle and stress. And safer.
There is a saying with regards to boat owners and their 2 greatest days: The day they buy the boat and the day the sell the boat. Having watched a bunch of Liz's videos I am coming to the conclusion that the saying might apply here as well.
Yeah most people don't understand floor tile versus wall tile. Wouldn't a nice rubber mat help?
This is unbelievable at this price point, who would buy ANY RV from ANY manufacturer today?
It sure is a scary time to be RV shopping, Dan. Thanks for watching and stay tuned for an update.
If you do the research, you won't buy anything that was el cheapo or built during or after Covid for one thing.
The only one I would buy is an Advanced RV out of Ohio.
Newell is also still.a family owned company that makes high quality class A but they run about twice as much as this one.
We had a small 2023 trailer that we enjoyed for one year. But it was way too small for us. We sold it and planned to buy something bigger, but now we’ve decided to get out of the RV life altogether. What a disappointment.
1 year limited warranty on a million dollar vehicle? No way
Most home builders only give 2 year warranty on a new house.
@Mike-01234
10 years in the UK.
Ok, they'll eliminate the warranty and provide a free checkup with an oil change although the oil may have been used already.
Finally resolved. Tiffin agreed to buy back the rv and make them whole for some other expenses. No excuse, this used to be a quality outfit.
They need to buy it back immediately and offer him some compensation for what he and
his wife have gone thru. Glad to see you are being a consumer advocate. This is an
important channel. Thank you.
At a million dollars this customer has the means to hit Tiffin was a major lawsuit, plus the media attention, Tiffin needs to buy back.
I agree, Edward. Thanks for watching and stay tuned for an update.
I agree. Be careful how you treat customers. They might become your new boss.
@@oldmanrock7542 it used to be one unhappy customer told eleven and so on. Now they tell thousands! Tiffen needs to buy it back. If he has to sue them he needs to sue for the personal stress not just to him but his wife too. Robin at creativity Rv hated her tiffen too. She’s actually had three she ditched. She has a fifth wheel she has parked. I’m not sure she can even move it anymore. She travels mostly in a mini airstream. She’s very open about each of the units she’s had and has.
Agreed. With lower end rRVs sometimes the legal fees are more than it's worth but with something like this there is money to feed a good lawyer.
The ability to sue depends on the specifics of the contract and the ability to finance the lawsuit. Poor quality is not only a problem in the RV business, but also new home construction. Poor craftmanship and the management just wanting to get the product completed and sold.
I was an RV salesperson back in the day. They do suffer a lot of issues being driven, like screws coming loose… etc. But there’s no way this couple should have to accept a piece of garbage with that kind of price tag! Tiffin should definitely buy it back, apologize profusely which would require humility, and learn from it!
Let me say it again: THANKS TO YOU Ms. Liz,. *You are amazing for stepping up and fighting on the front lines,* bringing much-needed awareness to these issues. *You are a hero. Please keep it up!*
You’re doing a huge service to the world, especially to those who work hard to afford a decent mobile home, and whoever puts up their hard earned blood & sweat only to be taken advantage of. *Your recent videos on this channel are* (WELL PUT TOGETHER and) *hitting the right sources of these problems and helping people save from being robbed of their life invested money.*
Who would ever spend $800,000.00 on a RV? Beyond belief.
Its all about perspective. There are people out there that $800k isn't much for them. Then there are those of us that $880k is a lot of money.
How did you end up on this channel? Genuinely curious.
You're asking who ? Recall the pet rocks ? I have a whole load waiting for a buyer as well as a bridge but you better hurry, I got them on sale with fire sale prices and the bridge is scheduled for demolition. No doubt, there will be inquiries about free shipping.
@@jamsout5735 You clearly haven't been in Country Coach, Beaver, Monaco all made with hard wood out of Lane County, OR. No cardboard there, sir.
You also obviously don't know of Newell or the Prevost converters. Also no "cardboard" there either.
They have the money. None of your business lol
We are like the people gawking at a horrible car accident with these videos. I don't own an RV and never had any intention of ever buying one. I like this channel and it's a learning experience.
My wife and used to have aspirations of owning an RV till we started watching these nightmares. We would rather car camp than purchase one if these rolling nightmares.
@@ddhard656we purchased an older one for a fraction of the cost and renovated it. We love it!!
Same here , I got a 25 year old cab over camper on my truck and it’s good enough for me but I’m drawn to these videos lol
@@mzm4245 I did this myself too , i bought a 1947 GMC PD3751 motorcoach that had been converted to an RV ,,it's 77 years old and doesn't leak and i can still get parts for it too
@@wildcoyote34 I googled a pic of a 1947 GMC PD3751. How beautiful!
Our current RV is paid off next year and we were looking forward to upgrading. But thanks to channels like this, we are having serious second thoughts. We will definitely be holding on to our current RV that has zero problems. It was built in 2014 by Keystone and it's been a dream RV for us
Definitely hang on to the Keystone. The urge to get a new replacement is strong for many people, but the risk is high right now. You might consider doing some interior refreshing or your RV with flooring, upholstery, window treatments, and other cosmetic upgrades, so it feels newer.
If you have an RV with no problems, you should hang on to it with an iron grip and be happy because you got a verry rare one
Keep it, remodel
If you decide to "upgrade", you should seriously consider looking at older, high end brands! You may have to upgrade a few small Technology things if you just have to have them, but the quality of a 30 year old Airstream is still better than a new fiberglass trailer. We are shopping for a Class A to live in and retire in full time and I can assure you that we will be buying a 25-30 year old Prevost or Newell or Foretravel before we buy any of this newer junk.
@@richardterrell7539 Yessir! After a long search, I found a 1991 Foretravel in 2017. Still using it, love that coach!
Hey, I can get you a pile of junk for only $250,000. That's a huge savings. But seriously, I would settle for nothing less than a 100% buy-back from Tiffin and then do the research to find the best possible coach out there. Thanks for all you do, Liz. Seriously, this is EXACTLY what we need in this wild, wild west of manufacturers.
Most RV manufacturers build around 60 RVs a day. Bob Tiffin used to build 6. They were quality. Since Thor bought out Tiffin, it seems like they ruined what Bob Tiffin worked so hard to build with his company. Thor is destroying the RV business. What a sad story. I hope the buyers get a refund.
EXACTLY!! When Thor bought them out - it was OVER for Tiffin!!! Nothing but 100% REFUND!!!
Bob tried to buy it back . Thor won’t sell it lol
They had issues prior to Thor.
@fladave99 For sure, and that's the problem. Investors have become so greedy over the years, that most of them want the easy money, quality be damned.
How the Hay did get from a Liberty Coach Prevost - to a junk robbing Tiffin?!
Hearing a man like this commenting from knowledge and experience is priceless. These are the people missing from the production line in the first place. Great information, well done.
I was told years ago that the RV industry is an unregulated industry. There is no one making sure that these companies are putting these RV's together properly.
It seems like quality was already on its way out the door then Covid slammed the door behind it for every manufacturer but airstream.
If the structural damage, the cracks in the structure is unrepairable that alone is enough to buy back the bus but this is a compounding issue of many separate issues that haven’t been addressed and that slip through the cracks. Kind of embarrassing but if it’s only a small percentage of a large percentage of sales, it happens, it happens we just have to buy back the bus use it for parts and move on.
I've been doing research on motorhomes for sone time, and i agree with the slogan, "if it is made by Thor, run for the door"! Maybe a few buybacks will open some manufacturer's eyes!! Thank you for continuing to advocate for RV owners!
Disheartening when I think of how great this company once was. Back in the 80's and 90's they were the best and they stood behind their products. A lot has changed.
I believe I remember hearing they were bought out by another brand a few years back, maybe THOR
@@michelesteward5170 I think you're right. The suits have run the company . and the brand, into the ground. I feel bad for Bob.
My wife and I were thinking about getting into RVing. After watching all these videos about RV nightmares no way are we going to take the plunge. Some of these manufacturers are a total joke.
@@dhvoith - Ditto. We had a fun LITTLE 2023 trailer as a starter, but we couldn’t really do long distance travel in it. We sold it and intended to buy a larger trailer, but now we’re pretty sure we don’t want to chance it.
@@JudiToohey I get it. I consider myself a fixit guy but within reason. Water leaks, cracks, electrical and plumbing problems should never show up in a new vehicle. Those repairs should be handled by the manufacturer or the dealer.
I have travelled throughout the US, and have never been foolish enough to buy one, I only rent them.
There have been several times where they have broken down and all of the costs were carried by them, and in more extreme cases they had to retrieve the RV and drop off a replacement, they have to pay for hotel rooms if needed and I have never paid a dime out of pocket, the most expensive one (similar to the Tiffin) cost $350 a day but after spending $20K for two months I gave it back and don’t have any of the costs associated with owning one, including storage, maintenance and insurance and depreciation, I have never dealt with the downside and have had some of the best travel experiences in my life while traveling the US in an RV.
Renting is the only way to go.
Made in China 😮
There are high quality RVs out there. I bought a new Oliver in 2023, and after a year and a half I have had no issues. My experience is not uncommon. Every Oliver owner I know is extremely happy with the quality and service Oliver delivers. I love RVing and not having to worry about the issues that plague the big brands. Other reputable brands include Escape, Casita, Big Foot, Outdoors RV, Arctic Fox, and Leisure Travel Vans. Take a look at any one of these brands and enjoy all the freedom that owning a reputable, quality-built RV affords you.
LIz, thanks for all your videos. I've owned a Tiffin Allegro Bus for three years with minimal issues. Our Bus was preowned with low mileage, but we still got an independent RVIA inspection. We would never buy any motorhome or a house without an independent inspection. Our coach is a 2019, pre-Thor and pre-pandemic so maybe not a good comparison but Tiffin has been responsive to our needs. I wouldn't rule them out when looking for a quality coach.
This industry is in shambles. I have much smaller scale problems - just got my 2024 Jayco Whitehawk back from the dealer because my slide wall is detaching from the floor. Jayco denied the work the tech said it needed and basically said just put it all back together. I was going to trade it in but after checking out even higher end alternatives I've decided they are all pretty much trash too. Might as well just make independent repairs out of pocket since the warranty is really worthless. I wouldn't even trust the factory to make proper repairs anyway - given they designed the trash in the first place!
@@tooltime9260 short of legal action companies honor their warranties because they care about their reputation. Jayco and most in this industry know what their reputation is and act accordingly. I'd rather have it repaired correctly and the RV dealer is the LAST place that will do it right. So no, I did not "mess up"
It makes my 1974 33' Airstream look MARVELOUS! SIMPLY MARVELOUS!
Or my 1996 Winnebago Vectra.
Yep when things were made right they are still worth bank and highly sought after re furbished 🤔 makes u think ...
I owned a Tiffen( 40’ bus) for many years. Lived in it for 1 year. Back in the day, I paid $180k. I calculated when I sold it, we could have flown 1st class on every trip and stayed at $1500/night hotels for the money I put in coach. My advice is to never one of these new but buy it used. They depreciate just like a car only worse. I realized 80K when I sold it a few years later.
Great seeing the numbers and had you stayed at the hotel you wouldn’t have to dump the sewage.
Agree, and at a hotel I have a solid door with a strong bolt on it and room service.
Yeah the depreciation on these things is insane. And it's way more comfortable to stay in a luxury hotel at the price point this guy is operating at.
@@Ziegfried82 It's way more comfortable and much cheaper to stay in a nice hotel than it is to own any motorhome. Even renting one for a few days costs as much a nice, comfortable hotel room with a stout bolt on the door. Motorhomes look far too easy to break into.
slippery shower floor: 10 bucks for friction strips; takes 5 mins to put down
hot and cold reversed: dang, just reverse them again; takes 5 mins.
I never understood the whole RV thing; it just looks like a ton of work to me, and you don't get free waffles in the morn.
Friction strips are tacky, no pun intended. The shower should be made out of appropriate material.
@@genxx2724maybe but he'll stop whining and can replace the flooring later on
The point is that paid a million bucks for the thing and don’t feel that for that kind of money they should be dealing with these kinds of mistakes and oversights. I 100% agree with them on that. With that said I would probably (like you said) just take care of those two things myself BUT it needed to go back for other issues anyway.
I am currently driving a 25 yr old Dutch Star DP. Still working great! I”M afraid that good old corporate greed raises its ugly head yet again. Welcome to America.
Almost a million dollars for a tree fort on a bus frame with a diesel engine...😮
@tim,
A bus has a frame.
A BillionBuxBus conversion is a trampoline.
.
To verify the difference, look under a school-bus.
They are engineered to protect riders.
A RecreateVehicle is engineered to protect committees of accountants.
In February I got me a 1996 Holiday Rambler Endeavor LE 36' with 23000K miles 141 hours on the generator just needs a paint job and it's mine I couldn't afford a one million dollar motor home ever in my life but I'm very happy.
23 million miles? Damn...
Be careful, I had a 99 HR Endeavour and it had the cracked supports for the coach. There was a recall, I was on the list to have it done, but then HR went bankrupt and Navistar bought them but didn't honor the recalls. I ended up stuck with a defective coach. Lots of roof leaks, sunken floors, binding slide out, and busted plumbing. RVs are built like crappy sheds, even the good ones.
@kevinkelly6189 Thanks my friend but mine ok just needs a paint job.
@@johnjohnmcclane1818 Was just getting ready to say that! LOL
Hello Liz, I came across your channel and I’m so glad I did. I have been looking into RV’s for a couple years. Thank you for doing this.. Stay safe out there. Amen
We purchased a Tiffin too a few years go. After 5 trips for repairs we went on a two week trip . Sold it for a loss on the way home because it developed even more problems. Tiffins response was bring it back and buy another one for more $ . Nope. Bought an airstream instead
High end in the RV industry means better finishes, it sure doesn't mean better quality.
Apparently not in this case, Mark. Thanks for watching and stay tuned for an update.
So sad. Thanks for being here, Griswald!
Nowadays that's going to be true for the mass produced RVs.
Just like in Mercedes Benz cars, especially after 2020 or so. Wonderful cars when they work, terrible when they don't which is quite often. My 2022 SL63 had 8! recalls addressed at its last service...
I don’t consider Tiffin to be a high end RV manufacturer
Liz, you NEED to go to the biggest RV show in the country next month in Hershey PA. If you can setup a booth to inform people, do it. Once the industry sees the difference that you are making and the number of people that you are influencing, they'll have to make serious changes.
Do it Liz ... Go to Hershey!
They won't let within a mile of that place. Why would they?
@@randyneilson7465 Your correct, the RV industry reps would call for a SWAT team to get her out. A BOOTH! never in forever! The industry wants Liz in a coffin. They are likely emailing Boeing for advice.
will never happen EVEN if you got in they would just call them liars and they would have fake paperwork to back it up. NOW what does work is pulling a permit and sitting outside the dealership on the weekends with signs and the rv. I did this with a defective jetski. parked off to the side of their entrance off the main road. FIRST they called the cops, i showed my permit, i was not blocking traffic or the sidewalk and i was on the county's right of way (x number off feet on the side of the road) cops went in told the guy, owner followed the cops out and offered to fix it AND paid me back the 75 for the permit.
I was looking at a Tiffin RV recently and almost decided to purchase until I started watching your videos. You have probably saved me a lot of money and frustration. Thankyou.
What a godsend Liz is to these folks who are finding themselves up against these big corporations alone. When I stumbled upon her channel last year, I was probably a month or two away from dropping about $200k on an RV. I'm literally thankful every day that I waved off. The RV industry is in shambles and there are PLENTY of folks out there who will gladly rent out their RV or camper for your trips. Keep fighting the good fight, Liz!
I bought a Vanleigh 5th wheel in 2018. It also had the blinker wire reversed. They were absolutely wonderful about fixing stuff but the broken stuff was never ending. Finally, when the front cap separated from the ‘house’ where I could stand outside and see inside my bedroom through the separation, i had it repaired and sold it. I have PTSD from that unit and would love to buy another RV but I am too scared.
Oh no! I am sorry to hear this. At one time Tiffin had a stellar reputation for quality. I wonder if THOR had taken over by then.
@@backtoasimplelife that is was before Thor and even before Tiffin took them over
@@backtoasimplelife Their reputation was based not so much for quality but their willingness to fix their screwups.
In total agreement. If THOR is in any way connected with a model of RV, stay the heck away from it. It’s all the fancy looking glitter that attracts unsuspecting customers. THIR should be ban from doing business!
@@tombrennan6312 that matters a lot too.
Rv's are not assembled in a manner lending to major repairs. RV's are assembled in such a manner that deconstruction damages the materials surrounding the point of repair . Everything is built on top of everything else, mostly out of pine, pressboard,styrofoam, and laminate. Good times!
Great job reporting. Glad to these people stepping up telling their stories.
$800,000 for a piece of crap is absolutely disgusting! Only a 100% buy-back would be acceptable. DO NOT BUY AMERICAN-MADE RVs! NEVER!!!!!
Newell has a good reputation.
Just make sure the company hasn't been absorbed by Thor industries, before you buy.
Who said they made in America?
@@stevek343 They're mostly made in Elkhart, IN.
Where do I buy an RV which is NOT made in America? Am I out of touch? Never met anyone who had an RV NOT made in America? Is China making RVs and bringing them over??
All these companies have money making strategies but no quality improving strategies. I will never purchase a Tiffin after they came after you earlier this year. They, the RV industry, needs to wake up or they will be forced out of business by their own greed and lack of responsibility.
Thank you for all you do, Liz. I believe you are doing a great job.
Million dollar home on wheels all cracked up and leaking. Work hard your whole life, buy your dream RV, and it turns into nightmare RV. Sad. Thank you for sharing tiffin RV problems!
Indeed, Fred! Thanks for watching and stay tuned for an update.
Buy a proper bus and have someone local convert it for you. I have a Prevost shell bought used, the conversion done by a local carpenter, I've done all the electrical and plumbing. Total cost $160K and built solid.
@@tdgdbs1
We are frequent contributors on vanLiving and other home-built forums.
After owning any level of factory RecreateVehicle, everybody always builds their next rig.
.
Nobody says:
* "Our 2024 factory RecreateVehicle is junk, but the factory will have all the bugs worked-out for our new rig in 2025!"
Thank you Liz Amazing for the great work you do. Sometimes I comment on other RUclips channels when they are selling new RVs. Other channels sometimes show new recreational vehicles, I sometimes comment about the high prices and also I recommend your channel, Liz Amazing and recommend that people learn and investigate before they invest. I never owned an rv, and I don't want one now after seeing your videos. But I do promote your program because I think you probably are a big help not only to victims of bad RV purchases, but maybe you will motivate the industry to do a overall better job building those things. Upvote.
It appears Tiffin is more concerned about how their coaches look (glitzy) rather than how they work. I'd rather have a butt-ugly functional camper than a broken pretty one.
Eghhh, I donno. Tiffin has some really ugly coaches 😂 They are years behind in design.
@oldbroad,
But nice decals...
its Thors cost cutting to maintain profits, this is very common sadly, but as long as people keep buying this stuff there will always be sellers
@@competitionkartingwhich one has good design?
@johndong7524 the Zephyr is pretty modern. The others like Allegro are outdated, in my opinion.
Tiffin needs to buy that piece of crap back and apologize to those customers.
Never hand over the check until you have done a total per-delivery check of everything - it will take you hours, but the hours are worth the $$$
Liz, what a great service you provide!! You are awesome!!
Who the HELL pays $1M on a camper!!! 🙄
People with money
Someone with a million to waste 😂
People that buy million dollar homes,
Successful people? Just thought.
@@buckodonnghaile4309 I think you meant STUPID people just a thought
Hi Liz, unfortunately the poor craftsmanship is throughout the entire RV industry, from $3,500 pop ups to multi million dollar coaches, it’s absolutely sickening. My wife and I own a 2004 TrailBay 27DS, had it since new. We’d love to upgrade to a new fifth wheel, however, with as poorly as RV are being manufactured, we don’t want to take a chance and get screwed! There needs to be more regulation on RV manufactures, something to hold them accountable for quality issues and to protect the buyer.
PLEASE stay away from anything made by Heartland ! They killed us with the 3610 RV 5th Wheel 2012 Edition. Every possible Option to start of our retirement, Turned out to be a nightmare from week 2 ! Lost our shirts !
Most, but not all. Go thru Liz’s episodes and you’ll see who has a good name.
@@kathykeene2092 Doesn’t matter who has a good name. Currently ALL RV manufactures, including high end multi million dollar coaches are being built under quality. Start reading RV forms, you’ll find out just how bad people are having with RV’s built since 2020, it’s sickening. God Bless you, I pray the unit you have or are thinking of buying will be of good quality. 🇺🇸
@@JT-1969 There are reputable RV manufactures. Liz featured Oliver on this channel as an example. I bought my Oliver new in January 2023. I've had no issues with it whatsoever. My experience is typical of every Oliver owner I've met. Other reputable brands include Bigfoot, Escape, Casita, Outdoors, Arctic Fax, and Leisure. These are smaller, privately-owned companies that do take pride in their products and deliver exceptional customer service.
What should Tiffin do? Hire a bunch of competent employees and inspectors, and fire a bunch of idiots.
With all due respect, try to find someone who can pass a drug screen and a background check that hasn’t had at least two prior felony charges. And possess any skill level beyond video gaming in their parent’s basement. Oh and wants to work for $15/hr. Who do you think cooks your carry out bag food?
You can't inspect quality into something. It must be designed and built with quality in mind.
Yeah or get us a better president of this so called country! 😂 Lol
This isn't an employee issue. This is a management issue. I guarantee you that if you put a competent management team in place they will create an environment where employees are proud to work there and bring their best every day. Building that kind of culture isn't sexy. Going on "business trips" and swinging deals - that's sexy. Why bother actually building a competent workforce with the right tools and processes? That's not fun. And that's what you get. These clowns will be out of business in a year or two and then blame it on everything but themselves.
@steve2736 I agree with you. Infact there's a whole lot more that 'could' be said, , , but it doesn't tow the WOKE business model so I better not.
I love it when people who own big (or even small) RV's say, "We're going camping." No. You're not, 'going camping', you're going, 'motor-homing'. And at state or national park camping grounds, they have designations of, "Camping", and, wait for it... "'Primitive Camping". "Camping", usually by the fresh, wild stream, is for the people with dishwashers, microwave ovens, couches, beds and tv's and computers in their motor-home with internet access provided. "Primitive" camping, is for folks with tents who are really camping, with no stream nearby, no electric power or tap water, etc. What a sick society. We've extended our psychotic, 'car culture' to camping out.
We just sold our 5th wheel and its one of the best days ever. The dream of being free on the open road was overshadowed by the constant feeling of "whats gonna happen next?" I cant imagine being one of the unfortunate folks who put all their retirement plans into one of these poorly built, lipstick on a pig cracker boxes. The only thing worse than the quality of the coach was the arrogance of the dealership after I bought the trailer. I'm just glad it's over.
Don't buy cheap or buy a three yr old hi quality unit.
Like buying a boat. The only days you enjoy are the day you bought it and the day you got rid of it.
@@oldcynic6964Do you know what’s cheaper than owning a boat?
Throwing your money directly into the ocean.
I would also be embarrassed to spend almost 1Million on any depreciating asset regardless of build quality. You can buy a lot of house for 800k.
OR buy the most expensive luxury car of your propulsion method of choice and stay at the Hilton on a road trip.
I would invest 800k. Drive a cheap 200k miles odometer car, rent, and stay in motel 6 on vacation. Then hang out with Beautiful women at the beach all weekend.
Its all about perspective. There are people out there that $800k isn't much for them. Then there are those of us that $880k is a lot of money.
@@user-bh7dm8dr3m He should just buy a new one but from a better vendor for $1,300K and sell the old one at a loss. Get some after market high quality mattress (ad), fill up the refrigerator with some steaks and lobster and go on vacation somewhere nice.
That's because you don't have a million to spend on a depreciating asset.
I am living in Canada and are originally from Germany. I used to work on vehicles a lot in my life. Generally spoken, these big campers are banged together extremely rough and cheap.
In some documentary, I saw an assembly line for these. I have worked in home building/construction. The materials and techniques were very cheap and light- because it is mobile/RV. It looks like a home on the outside, but the systems and structural integrity are far, far below any home standard. Even for 800k, you are right. It is, "banged together".
Everyone thinking about buying an RV needs to watch Liz videos.
Anyone thinking of buying RV should see psychiatrist😂
I bought a used 27’ Wilderness three years ago for $8,000 and haven’t had one issue, plus I live in it. I’d be visiting Mr Tiff.
They are no longer in business but in a previous job I had the honor of getting a guided tour through the Blue Bird company in Ft Valley, GA that made Wanderlodge Coaches, from the jigs used to make the frame, to upholstery shop, custom cabinet makers, etc., etc. Each coach had the name of the future owners and they could come to the factory at anytime to see the progress, make changes, meet the craftsman, etc. Upon completion they had their own campground to teach folks and made sure everything ran right. I met one of their techs and he was one of the mechanics that went on the road when a coach broke down and got it repaired and back running. His recent trip was to Yellowstone Park. In closing if I had the money and wanted a motorcoach I would scour the country for a Wanderlodge and restore it to an original condition. They truly were and still are palaces on wheels! If anybody reads this and owns a Wanderlodge I want them to tell me if I am stretching the truth.
By the way they are no longer in business because the original owners, The Luce Family, sold the business to Volvo and then it was sold to an English firm and now it is owned by another company. They decided to concentrate on just making Bluebird gas, diesel and EV school buses. The company from England almost ran the company into the ground. Another owner was the financial firm of Morgan Stanly, they literally bled the company dry before dumping them.
Wow, I am shocked, but not surprised VC ripped the guts out of the company. I was a teenager in the early 80's and my dad bought two brand new Wanderlodges. We went to the factory often getting g tours and then hanging out in the factory campground. Last time we were there in probly 1982.. a blk coach pulled in next to us at the campground. We are sitting g out side and tge blk coach door opened...it was Johnny F'in Cash😮..he was getting his personal WL getting upgraded. He hung out with us about an hour..wild times...
@@TheBlazeboy69 What an adventure. I had to drive past the factory a lot and noticed a lot of the coaches parked for delivery awaiting p/u by their owners had custom trailers attached in the same paint scheme as the coach. They were beautiful. I was told one time that some of them were custom coaches and shipped to the oil rich Middle East. What wonderful memories for you and your family.
Sue to get your money back
@@louisstennes3 That's all Morgan Stanley is good for- equity-stripping businesses they acquire and destroying them to line the pockets of MS shareholderes.
Not sure if I mentioned this before, but Liz Amazing is the most important station on YT today..
Aww, thanks so much, Gene. Feel free to share this video!
She does have a very good channel. That statement is just rediculous however.
@@N.I.L.84
A man in my position won’t be made to look ridiculous…
@@GENECARP
'a man in my position'?
We prefer:
* "I shan't be mocked!"
Significantly more pretentious...
Man, I thought I wanted an Allegro Bus.....after seeing this, I might just keep my 1987 Avion 34' travel trailer. Long live the Silver :)
LIZ: The MOTHER TERESA for us RVer's!! Let's call the POPE!! Sainthood!!
Tiffin should be ashamed. They should buy back this motorhome. Another Amazing video, Liz!
I know it. I'm so stunned over this. Thanks for watching and stay tuned for an update.
What a total take on - how can a can on wheels be worth $1M! That couple can't have any conception of what $1M IS!
I think Tiffin should buy it back. I had a similar experience with an Winnebago. The slide motor went bad, the leveling system went bad, the furnace went bad , gas was leaking from the propane tank. It was brand new. I feel for this couple. It is a nightmare that should never happen. I will never RV again. Awful experience and memories
I am rather attracted to the big Class A motorhomes and love the way designers arrange the space in them. But after watching so many videos and reading about the appallingly low quality of so many of these big, expensive rigs that often cost as much as a very nice house, I've put aside any thought of buying one unless I find myself rich enough to spring for a Prevost Liberty or Marathon, the only makes worth owning. I'm shocked to hear how badly Winnebago and Tiffin RVs are made now, for those used to be of fairly good quality.
These RV companies need to be held accountable!
@Karen
RecreateVehicle manufacturers own congress-critters and bureaucrats and judges.
Perhaps you noticed... congress-critters and bureaucrats and judges don't work for you.
We have a pre pandemic class c .The insurance is paid annually ,this year it went up over 150.00 .We called and asked why and our agent explained that another insurance provider has dropped RV insurance ,I believe he said allstate ,due to all the complaints and issues recently .So basically our RV has zero issues ,but yet I'm being punished for the horrible manufacturing since the pandemic .
@@volksfolks62 - Wow. I never even considered the domino effect like this. Watch insurance companies now start to limit what they’ll cover (in fine print, of course).
I worked in manufacturing my whole career. We made complex electronics. Failures happened all the time. These RVs because of size complexity training, employee, documenting. They will never be built correctly. If you buy one know it will fail on multiple levels and.points. first test I would do is get five water hoses and pour water on the roof for about an hour. LEAK TEST
We were actually looking at one of these but after seeing this not anymore. Thank you for doing this video. We decided to buy a new home.
That's a far more sensible use of your money. The home will at least appreciate in keeping with inflation as long as the neighborhood is good, while the RV will lose half its value the minute you drive it off the lot even if it's not riddled with defects. The home will also offer 4X as much space at least that is cheaper to heat, cool, and maintain, and it's a lot more secure and comfortable.
Tiffin needs to buy it back, period. That's unacceptable. I'm also dealing with issues with our coach due to permanent damage caused by inexperienced technicians at Campers Inn. Our dealer should take responsibility and buy our coach back, it's ridiculous.
Unacceptable. I agree 100%!!! So sorry you are going through issues as well. Send me an email if there's anything I can do to help.
We bought new Phaeton and it was in the shop 185 days the first year. Tiffin never stand up to promises they make. Our entire front of the couch had to come off twice. The refrigerator had to be replaced along with jacks, leaks on drivers side. Wall between bathroom and kitchen redone. Believe me buying better has nothing to do with quality because there is no pride in what is made any more. What I would love is too have my 21’ kit companion Sunchaser back.
Everything is made like junk now, I don’t care what it is. Clothing, appliances, cars, everything.
In the automotive world, more money means better quality, design and materials. Not in the RV industry. Unbelievable. And it’s been like this for over 40 years. When Toyota and Lexus start building RV’s, these scammers will be out of business.
Well my 24 foot REV Dynamax 2018 that I live out of never breaks down for the last 6/7 years plus 15 miles to the gallon and you can park it in one parking spot.
They need to lemon law that Motorhome's!!! They 0:15 paid 4 times what I payed for my home!! Ridiculous
Lemon laws don't apply to motorhomes, just cars used for non-commercial purposes.
Nope. The products and materials are sourced from several different manufacturers which makes a full warranty on the vehicle impossible
@@sashamoore9691 Either a full warranty or a limited warranty can be offered by the manufacturer. When you buy a car, the parts and assemblies are sourced by the manufacturer from a lot of different companies but it is the car manufacturer that offers the warranty to the end user. The car manufacturer will have agreements in place with their various suppliers regarding any warranties provided from the supplier to them but that has no bearing on the warranty the car manufacturer offers you. For legal reasons, you rarely get a "full warranty" on any product, what you get is a "limited warranty". There is not enough space here to go into the differences. I am not shooting from the hip, I handled warranty operations for a major international manufacturer and my territory included the United States.
No , no, What they need is a new set of Brains..
My first clue on this is when the buyer said “we were in a hurry”. That’s how you make a bad purchase and/or decision. People buying a $400,00 house have an inspection and you make sure everything is working before you take possession. The fact that this coach had so many problems that they didn’t know about before driving away was their fault as much as the seller.
Exactly 💯%
I totally agree with the owner of this Tiffin. I would expect near if not 100% perfection at this price point. This needs to be bought back immediately.
Obviously Tiffin has a major Quality Control issues! Lack of a safety checks before it leaves the facility. Pitiful at best!
@@Ronin12530 they have fallen in line with the rest of the once great manufacturers. I never would have guessed this would have happened to Tiffin.
Tiffen needs to buy the vehicle back! i’m so happy you put this out because my wife and i were considering purchasing a new Zephyr… Not now this is a sad story. Thanks again Liz
Needs to be a class action in the whole effing industry!! Unacceptable failures regularly! No one is surprised by massive failures!
Not going to work. The RV industry knows what they are doing. They have boatloads of lawyers and they have run the numbers. They make more money building junk and hardly fixing it than building quality to begin with. If they made more money making quality they would do that. People keep signing contracts.
Would take years and you'd have to find hundreds of people with the same rig and same problem. Thanks for watching and stay tuned for an update.
Absolutely not. This is a recent headline "Subaru Settles Fuel Pump Class Action, Lawyers Get $15.5 Million vs. $81,250 for Owners". That's not per owner, that's shared by all owners. Class action is bad for owners.
This use to be our dream to buy a motor, no more, they all seem to have issues.
Indeed! Thanks for watching and stay tuned for the update.
Please do your research. These stories contain common threads if you will just pay attention.
They do. If it aint breaking you aint RV'ing! Sure hoteling it is more cost effective. However, there are something that a motorhome can bring you that is priceless and you just have to pencil it out. For us we do dog shows and being on the show grounds, having a toilet when traveling and bring the dogs with us when not at dog shows is worth the expense of ownership. Go for one 8 years old, get an inspection and pay cash.
$800,000 is nutz for a THOR thing
Whew, so unbelievable. Thanks for watching and stay tuned for an update, Stan.
Ahh...Thor owns Tiffin. When did that happen?
@@rocrater100 Tiffin Motorhomes Joins the THOR Industries Family
Tiffin Motorhomes
December 2, 2020
@@rocrater100 In 2020.
I am so happy you posted this. Tiffin needs to buy back that coach. That many issues are just crazy.
I am about to purchase a motor home, but was thinking more of a SUPER C.
WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS?
Tiffin USED to be THE motorhome to have. Then the family sold it. Now its crap.
Yep. So sad. Thanks for watching and stay tuned for the update.
Guess there's only Newmar left for reasonably dependable luxury coaches. Too rich for my blood but I'd get an inspection no matter what the coach costs or who makes it.
@@celestepalm6949 My parents own a 2019 Newmar, it’s a piece of junk also.
Newells, if you got the $
@@celestepalm6949 Newmar and the Prevost rebuilders like Marathon and Liberty. I would not buy a motorcoach unless I could afford at least a 5 to 10-year-old Marathon or Liberty, which cost about $800,000 these days. They are the finest motorcoaches in the world as they are rebuilt Prevost highway buses, built to run a million miles, and known for 50 years for their exceptional quality.
Until government implements proper consumer protection laws for the RV industry I'm staying out of it. Yeah I'll give up that lifestyle for Air BnBs, VRBOs and hotels but thats the price I'll pay!
Good point, Craig! Thanks for watching and stay tuned for an update.
I think you mean "that's the savings I will pay". Cost of RV and depreciation, truck and gas/diesel, site fees, maintenance, etc., it's cheaper to stay in hotels.
@@keithallsop I mostly agree! while we really enjoy some elements of RVing, we've decided that in our retirement, we will purchase a comfortable minivan and travel the country. In comparison, a Honda or Toyota is virtually trouble free in comparison to the RV industries utter garbage. If we wind up with a terrible Air BnB....We leave and head to another and not look back.
@keithallsop RVing isn't for you. It's cheaper to go to the store and buy fish than it is to go fishing but we still fish. RV's are awesome homes away from home.
@@jeffwhite3021 - summered in RV's many a time. Don't assume anything just because I am not a cheerleader for junk RV's. Poor quality RV's are not for anyone. A lemon can happen, but then the customer service is terrible and they don't get fixed before the "warranty" expires.
the thing is an inspection of a brand new coach would not have revealed the de-lamination, stress crack or leaks once the mold is in the walls/ceiling the coach is junk
Yep. It would have found the blinker, AC, and hot water issue though. Thanks for watching and stay tuned for an update.
@@LizAmazing not criticizing you it does seem that it would be better to get a used unit and have it inspected like you say because some of these issues simply cannot be found out before the unit is in actual use - something that can't be done w/ a brand new unit
We don't know when the leaking started, but sometimes it is immediate. And like Liz said there were definitely issues that would have failed an inspection and perhaps those alone would have deterred the buyers. Also, I wonder if the buyers did any research beforehand. Angry buyers want to talk. The gentleman did say he wished they had done a factory tour first, but I bet they would have found negative info online on FB groups and RV forums.
@@stanmarcusgtvA qualified inspector would’ve definitely found the delamination.
@@backtoasimplelife I think in a lot of cases, it's hard to know what is real and what isn't when doing research. Sometimes it's hard to believe they would mess things up that bad. Wouldn't have believed how bad they could mess up the wiring until we bought our current boat. Our previous boats never had problems like that. It's like COVID was the big excuse for these manufacturers to just toss out crap.