Jin Main Responds And Destroys TMM With Facts And Logic
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- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2024
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TMM Merch themainmanswe....
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Oh my god this guy is a legend on the tekken subreddit, he's actually the quintessential jin main. All he does is downplay jin and post slomo edited clips against the same lili player over and over.
He's also really active on Facebook too. He's basically a meme there too.
XD
The ultimate Jin schizo
The Lili player is his training partner as far as I know.
HOLY SHIT THAT'S THAT GUY? THATS FUCKING HILARIOUS
To be fair his Jin clips are wild
i'll never understand how people think kazuya 50/50 is the "most oppressive" when marduk and akuma exist
Most of people who think that are low-rank and they encounter kazuya much more often than marduk or akuma.
And Geese too. My man got 2,000 nerfs and is still breaking ankles
Kazuya 50/50 is oppressive. It definitely aint better than Akuma or Marduk your right
They’ve never tried out Xiaoyu’s ws 2.
you must be mentor rank??
He is right about saying that Kazuya will always have a chance against better players due to his 50 - 50. Even Knee said that he picked Kazuya against Arslan ( before he mained Feng ) cause he couldn't beat him any other way.
Without timing at that level his 50/50 is useless. You can't use it as a real 50/50 if you don't read them
@@makeomengreatagaineverything is useless without proper timing at that level bro, that's what makes it top level gameplay
Knee is also the same guy that said Akuma was trash for the 1st 2 seasons of T7.
@@MrSamuelAdam4everyone put akuma in lower midtier tbf
@@GRGCompletionist hellsweep/FF3 mixup can be fuzzied, as a matter of fact great players see FF3 animation, which is why great Kazuya's use more db2..
On top of that you can easily step hellsweep and ff3
People who still complain about losing to T7 Jin, will be screaming when T8 drops.
Aged like fine wine
this response videos are just so entertaining i probably have to go back and watch one of mainmans tier lists and make a response video for one the characters so he can react to it
make sure its filled with bs so we have some good laughs
MainMan makes a video destroying MainMan then MainMan makes a video countering the video that destroyed him..
Infinite content glitch.
Oh.
TMM exposed
33:39 😂😂this is hilarious.
I think people are starting to make it a trend where they completely disregard whatever main man says thats right, or says the same exact thing he says and tells their audience he never said it.
Jincel mains built different
Jin makes women incels
Honestly I'd rather have Jin/Dvj/Kazuya broken or top tier rather than characters like Feng or Kunimitsu
In deed my king
yeah even the qudans dvj reign he had was pretty enjoyable, electrics are just fun to watch
What makes Kunimitsu top tier
I'm a Yoshimitsu/Kazuya main and i actually agree. Characters who are more fundamentally-based like the Mishimas deserve to have kits that are a bit stronger to counter their game plans' previsibility. Characters like Yoshi, Kuni and even King, who have more versatility and many more setups excel through tactics and mindfuck
@@mastakilla7317 I was gonna watch the last few Tekken finals and the moment I saw Feng/Kunimitsu I turned the video off, like im not watching kunimitsu matches even if its the best players in the world playing
Wait till TMM finds out what they did to Kazuya in the Tekken 8 beta and nothing to Jin. He’s going to start his villain arc.
@@babygimmefeet2620jins d2 is left untouched but Kazuyas df3+4 got nerfed. On the flip side though Kazuyas db1+2 is now 23f i think and -14 ob so its alot like Jins own d2 except it can be cancelled or you can get a proper launch without an immediate screw. Its a questionable approach to new lows Jins included tbh
@@babygimmefeet2620 as a Jin main i dont really like d2 being so good, oversimplifies the nuances of his lows into one do it all low that also brings attention away from his db4 which i honestly would prefer getting more attention on given Jins Kyokushin background.
Kazuya in T8 is ultra ass compared to other char and they nerf him because he’s popular so he see more plays. Claudio is beyond busted but no one bats an eye
@@babygimmefeet2620 it never gave 70? With the wall possibly. But his biggest caveat with cd4 is how reactable it is and its a problem i come across often, theres ways to mask it with a fast or delayed wavedash into cd4 but ultimately if you do it too slow it will get reacted upon, i reckon in T8 it'll be harder to react to it given Jin has his new ff4 which twists his shoulders the same way cd4 does which is something Jin didnt have previously which made it easier to gauge a hellsweep. Im not really fussed if it launches or not, the less launchers and long combos the better granted the new heat adjustment is a bit of an eh for me since chars like Kazuya cant really do multiple EWGFs apparently.
@@babygimmefeet2620 also i do definitely agree with d2. I reckon if we can launch the other they should be able to launch us especially given the other properties it has. The launch should go or it should be made slower i'd say. Also between the mixup with ff3 and cd4 its generally something that can be easily fuzzied, i use it primarily as a checking tool sure but also as a means to increase respect or to do other things not necessarily as the mixup since you can gauge the different timings (20f vs 23f) granted again in T8 thanks to Jins new ff4 thats not really the case since they come out incredibly similarly
Hey, TMM!
I'm really flattered you happened to come across my vid.
Unfortunately, we stopped at agreements with me commenting on Jin's strengths because you didn't get to watch things that you don't say/possibly don't know about T7 Jin. The actual relevant stuff that should have been addressed was left for dead, sadly.
I don't blame you, after all, the video is long. But I really wish you took the time to address T7 Jin sabotaged aspects because I am absolutely positive you are not aware about that and *this particular information is widely unknown among the Tekken community consensus.*
I'm pretty positive you are not aware of the points I brought at all, and I'm absolutely positive it would affect your perspective on the character by quite a lot because you clearly don't take these crucial details into consideration when ranking him in tier lists.
I really take you for an honest guy: if you actually knew it, you'd more than likely mention it when talking about T7 Jin, which you really never did.
So I assumed your ignorance on good faith, *never* malice.
It's a shame you never got to watch it.
I wish you actually gave a shot in what I had to say because we pretty much stopped at agreements.
(That's the issue with long videos, so I really don't blame you.)
There is a ton of misconceptions and misinformation about T7 Jin that are being thrown around for years nonstop. I spent my entire weekend working on this vid to bring these issues into light.
Since you are a beacon for the Tekken community, you actually responding to it would help SO MUCH bringing these things into light because people really don't know.
Pay no mind to the hyperbolic rhetoric: I love watching your Kazuya gameplay and I wish you all the best.
Let's get fired up for a new beginning in T8!
Man you really ought to learn to make your point more effectively, even this post is tl;dr.
dude, just fucking stop
Dude you just are simply saying too much. Im sorry. Make your point and make it clearly. You are saying so much that its not clear what youre even trying to say at all.
Dude...I get what you're trying to say, but you have to narrow down your points. I normally can read long comments, and watch longs video's, but to a Regular Tekken Fan who can only sit still for around 8 minutes, or 15-20 minutes...this can be overbearing. Right a script and compress your points more effectively. There is too much for something that should be too little...meaning you can get the point across without going too deep.
I think you should do another video, but specifically on the secondary portion of your hour long one and try and get him to respond to that one or just make a shortened version of the long one. You have incredibly valid points and it's sad he stopped at just 19 mins into the video.
I think we've all been at the point of having some really bad takes with this game. The game is so difficult, and there are so many factors that you struggle to take into consideration without enough experience. Although it is annoying to see certain takes, I don't blame people for having them. Except for when it's a literal pro player.
Based af.
I agree, and I am usually astonished that these are the characters people choose to get butthurt about. There are definitely characters I have issues with personally, but when I see a jin, kazuya, bryan or something, I am actually glad.
@@bonfist7277 I got trolled by low rank hellspamming Kazuya's since tekken tag 2 and even I'm surprised.
the most funniest part of this is TMM annoying himself cause he pause every 10 seconds and doesnt let hes finish his point, then he forgets what the point is. i know hes getting old but hes not that old jesus
21:48 But Knee also once played against Boa with Steve and lost because he couldn't read the 50/50s that time. So Knee was basically guessing in the both sets. In one set he was able to guess right most of the time and won. I the other set, he guessed wrong most of the time and lost.
Everyone always says Kazuya's 50/50 and oki is broken and braindead but I think there are so many characters with much stronger and much more obnoxious 50/50s. I'd rather fight Kazuya than any character with full-crouch mixup.
kazuyas only one who cycles endlessly
@@Nico-tz7utHe is a vortex character, also ONLY character? Idk if that's true.
@@Nico-tz7utehmmmm? Have you seen marduk? I suppose not
@@Nico-tz7ut not really much else you can do on kazuya though. besides punishing and electric spam, the vortex is all he has
@@Nico-tz7utKuni's ff2 resets oki situations also and can be used after her fc sweep or her mid knockdown kick
Lmao… a 50/50 is still a guess, even if you are predicting correctly…. The mind gymnastics are silly on this one
It's like Kazuya mains are so good that they can read our minds😂
Nah. I think you missed the point of his vid. Or at least the message behind the part of the vid that TMM's reaction covered.
He's basically saying that the argument TMM uses to call Jin S tier or Kazuya mid tier can be applied to both sides. Both have tools that are way better than the other's, and their best tools are almost equally gate keeped by stellar execution or greater situation awareness (in T7 specifically).
And you can boil it down as follows : S+ tier Jin is the exception, so you should also judge Kazuya by looking at the exceptions (i.e Sergie Mazters winning Tournaments and beating the most successful Akuma in the world).
And he's got a point. While reacting to the vid you see TMM going from "But online Kazuya is bad, the kind that usually peaks at Fujin, Sergie is the exception" to "Yes, Jin is difficult but that's the point, I'm talking about minmaxed top tier tournament playing Jin here".
That's a good point. TMM also ends the video before the actual main point of the video comes in which is Jin's awful movement and the fact that he has no okizeme moves.
He had some fair points as well..
AYO TMM you should REALLY check out what this guy has to say. He is showing stuff that you don't know. I had no idea frfr
You should not have stopped the video bc there's very insightful stuff and he was right, what a letdown
I enjoyed watching that 40 minute video of a guy shadow boxing with TMM lmao
why dont we do tekken tournaments instead of war with real weapons?
Koreans and Pakistanis would take over the world
I'm American; but that would end with us losing, we get dominated in tekken already, imagine some Russian or north Korean player whose never seen the light of day cause he had to play tekken in a training camp all day since he was 3.
38:43 holy shit im in tears laughing out loud. i mean lets be honest that guy just wanted to talk about jin and addressing TMM's claims is just an easy way to do that
also yeah, you use can cans with jin to whiff punish. kazuya has to use electric to launch because he has no other fast launcher. and unlike dvjin cancans, jin's have more range
I remember watching arslan video when he fought you, after he blocked your hell sweep he said "every mishima player", which speaks to how important it is to sell his 50/50.
I actually find it hilarious that TMM responded, because over in the tekken reddit the dude just got downvoted and clowned
*Its free real estate*
That's not what actually happened. NovaSeiken was banned by the moderator bot due to "spamming" and now there's a whole thread dedicated to people asking for him to be UNBANNED cause the TMM video was actually good and insightful, especially at the final parts (ignored by TMM btw cause he only reacted to the first 20 minutes).
And by the way, he's unbanned now, by public demand. We wasn't clowned, which is rare, Reddit is actually on his side now as far as I can see. There's a bunch of people mad that TMM skipped the best part of the video.
I don't know this dude but alot of people who downvote and clown are just as ignorant and can't come up with a counter argument themselves. Most cases are them just pressing a button to make the OP look like an idiot because they said something they didn't like.
@@Gabriel2Silva ngl it all sounds super dumb and this nova dude is really playing into the "jin mains" thing
tekken reddit is full of green ranks who know nothing about the gaem
you need to watch the rest of the video, seriously
Tekken 8 is really making this Jin and Kazuya tension a real thing. lmao
everytime someone tries to defend their main from one of tmm’s vids, it’s the most hilarious and ignorant shit ever lmaoooo
TMM: The Main Man ❌️
TMM: The Misinformation Man ✅️
TMM always lie about tekken characters 😾
I wanna see why the bears aren't top teir in his fake teir list!
29:35 that man made a Terry Batman Beyond outfit that's pretty slick
bro is jin irl
The rest of the video is worth a watch, he goes to actually explain the flaws of jin that not many know about most important of which is his lackluster lateral movement. Shame you didn't watch it.
That's what he gets for being so slow, you can't expect others to wait 50 minutes before making your point.
@@progste its a complicated game with a lot of variables
@@MortalDaemons yes but maybe don't start from the source code.
@@progste you wrong for that lmao
I'm placing this here because this is a comment from NovaSeiken on his channel. Based on what he said here, the mmswe probably should give it another chance. The part of the video we watch were on Jin's strengths. IT WAS NOT THE MAIN POINT OF HIS VIDEO.
From NovaSeiken :
That won't happen, unfortunately.
He actually saw it but didn't address anything, unfortunately, because he stopped at 30% with me commenting on Jin's strengths and didn't get to watch the things he doesn't say/doesn't know about Jin. We pretty much stopped at agreements and the actual relevant stuff that should have been addressed was left for dead. I don't blame him, after all, the video is long. But I really wished he took the time to address T7 Jin non-movement because I am absolutely positive he completely ignores that and this particular information is widely unknown among the Tekken community consensus.
I'm pretty sure he is not aware of this at all, and I'm positive it would affect his perspective on the character by quite a lot because he CLEARLY doesn't take this into consideration when ranking him because he clearly doesn't know nothing about it.
He actually didn't give a shot in what I had to say.
That's the issue with long videos, so I don't blame him.
I'm actually very sad and disappointed about it, because I didn't even consider at first he would come across the video. I sincerely believe this is my most important Tekken video and I put some serious dedication into it to debunk a shit ton of misconceptions and misinformation that are being thrown around for years nonstop. I spent my entire weekend working on this video, all for nothing. I would be better that he never even watched it. Really disheartening stuff.
Since he is a beacon for the Tekken community, he actually responding to it would help SO MUCH bringing these things into light because literally everyone doesn't know.
This video also cost me my Reddit account.
Tekken Reddit BANNED ME for posting this video response there.
I really can't possibly comprehend all this irrational rabid hate and persecution, but it is what it is. I'll just keep doing my thing.
Thank you so much, man.
200 word essay again smh
@ProfessorSnack Yep, and his video is long as well. I watched it though and he has a solid point.
TMM doesn't read yt comments.
Jin players can't be taken seriously..
While I do feel every opinion regarding Tekken should be taken with a grain of salt there are alot of responses to those opinions that are completely ignorant. The whole "Jin players" thing nowadays is like a witch hunt. When you have clear as day evidence in front of you, but you refuse to look at it then you are being willfully ignorant. I 100% side with the Jin player on this. @@vitovito6473
To bad tmm didn't saw when he talk about how shit is jin sidesteps.
Yooooo Silvio made it to the big leagues
On behalf of the Brazilian community, I apologize for the content of NovaSeiken. He does not represent the majority of the Brazilian community, does not participate in tournaments or offline games, and is not relevant in the Brazilian gaming scene. He only had a few minutes of fame with his content. He's nothing more than a meme that runs around playing FT2 in ranked matches
As a Jin main, I’d say give f4 the old/better hit box, no launch, good oki use with counter hit plus follow up.
Also, I never cared for f4 being a launcher or having a zen cancel in general.
Scary part is, it'd probably still be the best mid in the game, just for slightly different reasons.
I’d prefer those reasons over a full launch for my particular play style and I think it would be more in line with traditional karate.
The video is actually good, honestly quite sad that TMM underlooked it.
It adresses some very underground Jin stuff regarding his movement, I had no idea Jin had worse movement when compared to the likes of Kazuya and other similar size male characters.
A shame that TMM only watched the first 20 minutes.
But there are certain things that made him upset tho because of multiple responses and how ppl undermine his arguments but actually makes points that he already said so they’re kind of agreeing with him but also arguing with him at the same time lol
Like why even mention Lucky Chloe when her toolset shouldn’t have even put her in this argument nor Fahkumram for that matter
That was strange and I think bringing in Chole screwed up his whole point. There were literally two examples before Chole (Bryan and Lili), and they were extremely relevant to what he was saying. But everyone only focused on his screw up. Even Mainman said I don't understand the point. The point was there are charcters other than Jin with great long range keep out moves that are easier to combo into and gets much better damage. However they were not the focus of what should have been a universal change if everyone was so up in arms about Jin being able to use it.@@kingxdatruth0998
"Only"
@@user-gu2jv6hu6m I disagree being honest.
Literally agree with 100% of this guy arguments and definitely subscribing his channel. The "bro doesn't realize his theory was literally shattered" part is the best ever
tmm's reponse to that was "this 50/50 isn't actually a 50/50 because you just need to read your opponent's mind telepathically"
Why is it that when people hit or block shit everyone is calling it a read and if they don't it's a wrong guess. It's always a guess right or guess wrong but everyone is sucking D's euphemizing 50/50 as gigabrain reads. If you can force a 50/50 you do have cheese and kazuya can do it over and over again if he wins the gambl so you can absolutely steal matches from better players doing hellsweeps. That being said, kazuya is still bad because good punishment and good 50/50s aren't exlusive to him and his other tools suck. You can have a more balanced package of good punishement, mixups, pokes, movement etc. and be much less miserable compared to playing kazuya who excels at 2 and sucks at everything else.
That Jin player is a notorious bad take redditor, that word vomits every time he writes anything.
Tbh this ruckus about tier list kinda proves that Bamco doesn't do a bad job balancing the chars. There are no "you pick x, you win" character in Tekken 7. Sergie Kazuya does better job than his Zafina, Atif's Akuma doesn't win all encounters, Knee's Feng doesn't always get him to top 8, Ulsan won tournament with Kazumi and Bob so did CBM with his Noctis, Kaizur wrecks people with his Lucky Chloe, etc.
It's true that the characters are not on the same power level, but let's appreciate Bamco creating the game in a way so that people can confidently say "Always believe in your main, no matter where they are in the tier list"
Those Jin mains lol
They are cute
Those Kazuya mains waiting all day for an opportunity to make anything Jin related look bad.
@@BeforezzzHe was just adressing the video of that Jin stan so there’s that
@@polishsausage648 Just about every tmm video you either type two things, 'Kazuya is the best' or 'another typical Jin main'. I was just addressing the antics of a Kazuya stan so there's that.
@@BeforezzzI’m on Kazuya fan channel and I mostly comment on stuff related to Kaz himself. I don’t go on Jin mains channels and shit on Jin because I couldn’t care less about that emo edgelord. You’re the guys who come to Kazuya’s main channel and keep whining about Kazuya, lol
Lee chaolan's excellent posting member represent 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
more tmm response vids needed in my life
People who are too bad for jin, play braindead kazuya and heichachi based
people need to realize that mechanic needs mean almost nothing to the strength of a character. That is literally what happened with akuma before it became famous, and now everyone plays it. If a character can beat everything else with mechanics under control there will be someone that learns the mechanics
Which Jin fanboy told this bs that Jin has a "weakness" in his jab and df1 reach?? His jab in terms of reach (2.17 on Hei)it's the 23th to 27th position with Ganryu, Julia, Nina, and Eddy, I don't hear this character's main complain so much about the reach, and anyway his reach is perfectly average.
The stupidest myth it's his df1 F---ing 2.42 (on Hei) Literally the eight best one in terms of reach.
I much rather eat Kazuya's mixup rather than Jin's for some reason a launching hellsweep and a launcher which is not only neutral on block but also 3 possible follow-ups meaning it can have mental frame advantage from a f---ing neutral launcher.
Jin being one of the hardest characters is a joke to me, you can play whatever playstyle you want or need, the hardest thing is to do is to remember all these key moves in case you need them to win. Learning to do electrics and f4 combo is hard and requires time commitment but that does not make the character and anyway, you essentially need these only for keep-out and oppressive styles.
@@JohnSmith-j7nb21/f4/ff2 beggs to differ
🤓
I mean but Jin’s mixup is extremely slow comparatively to kazuya. In 7 Jin’s 50/50 is weaker and it’s not the reason why he is strong
stop pulling fake numbers out of your a*s
@@JohnSmith-j7nIsn't Marduk's hurtbox way larger too so him having a better side step means nothing?
Ima agree with main man here. Kazuya is very limited on his moves and bread and butter. The lack of poking from kaz is a huge balance to how strong his 50/50 is. I believe if kaz had about 3-5 solid pokes you could make the argument that he’s broken. Otherwise he takes a lot of dedication and execution that other characters don’t even need a fraction of to use them at full potential.
Limited moves . Andnall are good .. Braindead 50/50 ..Busted df2 ..Busted Electric ..Bs Hellsweep ..Braindead dmg
Ik u did not just say that when this man had the easiest combo routes 😭
I've talked to this Jin player before, he says that he practices the same form of martial arts so Jin is "literally him", and then he said that Jin has the worst movement in the game to the point where every move is a homing move against Jin. Cope cope cope downplay cope edgelord cope downplay cope cope downplay cope cope.
“he practices the same form of martial arts so Jin is ‘literally him’”
CRINGE
@@Kross1995 His reddit posts about Jin are kind of sad
Jin Mains vs TMM, a tale as old as his son
Not a tale, a myth. I'm a Jin main and agree with what TMM says more often than not.
@@Beforezzzcertain characters have a higher demographic of elitists, Kazuya and Jin being great examples because of their difficulty. Unfortunately for normal Jin mains like yourself, the psychos are rather loud and don’t understand that TMM likes the character. People need to take a step back and understand it’s just a game at the end of the day
@@MrMangus But when you look at the comments, it feels like more often it's the Kazuya mains who forgets that TMM never hated Jin
Honestly the nerf on Jin's f4 was so necessary. That's why they never reverted it or made it stronger. If he could hit characters in low stances everyone would just counter pick them with Jin. Despite that, it does not make those matches bad. It only makes Jin human instead of some god character.
SaltManSwe
The way TMM later on disected all the points this guy made in a later stream with him being right there in the chat was impressive. Seriously shows incredible knowledge on the game, bravo dude I respect you a lot more than I already did. It was completely obvious how the Guy's video title is more applicable to himself than on TMM.
It started as a funny meme and turned into an educational video
now I know the difference between the electric and Jin's EWHF. Thank you Jin main and thank you Main man
Green rank argument
Whenever people respond to TMM I feel like they just prove his point lol.
I feel like it’s really not hard to understand Kazuya’s flaws and it’s bolstered by the fact that he performs poorly online and almost literally no one plays & performs on him in tournament.
The secret top/high tier arguments never make sense
This guys is really infamous in the brazilian TK community, divides opinions a lot, but I guarantee he's no troll/attention seeker
His only flaw is being average Jin main and carrying their redditor attitude
Unfortunately he is sincere about his thoughts
But hes fine, dude's been making quite nice tekken educational videos recently
Salve, Felipe!
TMJ
@@NovaSeikenconfirma logo de uma vez, os jin main são tão esquisitos assim?
@@higordosanjosramos9835 sao
Great video...but you keep saying that Kazuya is super rare tourney character and that's evidence that he is weak. I see far far more Kazuyas than I do Kings. We need a video on King and why he is so rare in tourneys. Is he weak or are the players (you joked about King mains sucking in tourneys in the tier list video)? Maybe after the beta is over you could compare T8 King to T7 King. I think it will make an interesting video.
But he’s comparing the Mishimas tho not the rest of the roster. Plus, that’s one char out of 50. Like guys come on….
How about lets put this into a thousand here. In my interpretation of TMM's take on Tekken characters is that he has this respect of thinking the character he is up against is played by a very respectable knowledgeable player. Thats why he is able to see the downsides and limitation of the character.
claiming a statement that "Kazuya's Snowball is effective on EVERY LEVEL OF PLAY" is ridiculiously disacknowledging the fact that youre playing against a good opponent and not respecting your opponent's capabilities. There you go thats why you will be asked if Kazuya is effective on every level of play, then why can't we see him often in tournaments? Because if you actually consider your opponents skill and capabilities, you will acknowledge that Kazuya has limitations and he can't snowball a high level player with just hellsweeps and vortex. You can only claim this if youre playing in a low rank who just gets snowballed by hellsweeps and doesnt know how to defend against it.
People who complain about kazuya remind me of people who complain about subzero in mk. Clearly flawed characters that people attribute mythical qualities too because they just don't want to deal with certain equally flawed mechanics each of the characters posses. This idea that kaxuya has "the most brain dead 50/50" is wild. I can think of many way worse situations in this game. This guy has alot strawmans in this video. Oki was simplified at a mechanical level in t7 globally. I find it a bit rich he criticizes Scrupman about basically lying by omission where he does this multiple times in his own video.
I just saw someone posting about how this guy got banned from r/tekken for too much self promoting?
I usually agree with tmm but "a 50/50 isn't a 50/50" isn't really an argument
it's also not his argument, he just said 50/50 is mindgame not luck.
Its not a true 50/50 after reading someone's patterns obviously.
Kazuya is a mixup char but Tekken has very few true 50/50's and that is asuming you can only Stand/Crouch guard. But you could SS, a 3rd oprtion. Also you could do a 4th option stay on the ground (I know ff4 op), jumping attack that will avoid the low and radically reduce the damage of for example Kaz ff3. If the Kaz player delays the "50/50" you could counter hit. Kazuya is not the only characters with hard hitting lows and Hellsweeps you know. And i say this while i have been very annoyed fighting Kazuyas. Then again Educated guessing is still guessing.
Even a coinflip isn't a true 50/50 because there's a chance it lands on its side introducing a third option.
You just call stuff like this 50/50 because if you'd type out the variables everytime there wouldn't be enough space on whatever Twitter post.
@@Lobothemainman23you can never 100% read someone's patterns, if he notices you doing that he'll start changing up his timing and strategy unless he's playing the game mindlessly. In conclusion, it is indeed a 50/50.
2:25 LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HE REALLY DO
ive been really loving these reaction on people criticizing your tier lists
You can farm an infinite amount of copium from Jin mais, more so than any other character in the game for some reason.
This guy talks some truth though. I remember that Boa once beat Arslan Ash in Pools 2:0. And after that Arslan said that Boas playstyle is pretty much that he is doing his own thing and it either works or it doesnt. So yes you can coinflip your way to victory against a much better opponent.
How tf does this help his argument?
He won a Set and that’s it
Ofc you can steal rounds with the vortex
but that alone will never ever win you a tournament
A better argument would be:
Rangchu WON the tekken world tour with panda so is panda now S+ Tier?
And yet not a single soul argues about it
@@XXXyamaX no the argument was. can a less skilled kazuya player steal a win against a better player. Kazuya isnt top tier at all but if you guess your 50/50 vortex correctly you can win against anyone.
There is so much fucking cheese in the game, complaining about Kaz is insane. everyone always knows my options 100% of the time. Side walking and jabbing can neutralise me. My "braindead 50/50" can be launched and I can die by guess wrong once. people talk about Kaz like if walk up hellsweep is the most broken thing in the world. I can't even play the fucking character properly if I dont have 5 plus years of experience, matchup knowledge and godlike execution.
Jin players are so delusional about their character its hilarious. I play both, can easily say its not even a competition how much easier and better jin is than kazuya. Stay mad. oh and f4 combo really not that hard. stop coping, theres very little execution with jin compared to kaz.
I love being a yoshi main when watching these videos because no one ever fights for my character to be buffed but also universally agree that he’s hard lol. This guy is complaining about a 68 damage combo and I’m like… 68 damage is great 😭
Because every non-mishima player just enjoys the game like a normal human being. These hardcore mishima players are insufferable.
@@Shibu_PL yea it almost felt like he was making arguments in hopes that the devs would see and buff his main lol
You can’t say Jin’s F4 is a perfect attack when it’s completely linear and recovers very slow on whiff. Especially when characters like Bryan and Claudio have better versions of this move.
16f range over 2.5 safe ch launch...... And if you wiff it well you have bad spacing as its range is amazing
Not even close. Bryan's ch long leg is way easier to deal with. Claudio has a move similar to Jin f4?
@@IvanOrdellall of bryan's core moves uniquely have to be stepped in only one direction. Ex, his jab and df2, 3+4, jet upper(at a certain range) can be stepped to the right. 3+4 can clip you if you step/sw it to the left. Coincidentally his orbital, hatchet kick, ws1 and the last hits of some of his strings can be stepped to the left(some other strings are steppable to the right too).
Meanwhile, most of jin's moves and strings are steppable to the right. F4 can be stepped in either direction. Not to mention the diffculty of the pickup.
Bro just keeps using outplaying a reason for hellsweep connecting
I think the only flaw in this guys logic is his version of casual tekken is red ranks. and I don’t mean that as a insult as he would shit on me I mean this as because he could shit on me I can say that. a coin flip is always going to be annoying. just because his game plan is one doesn’t mean u win 100 or even 75% of the time but you might be able to say it’s 50% the of time and that’s because you guessed wrong. people need to remember there’s games you will always guess right as well as guess wrong. all fighting games come down to advanced rock paper scissors or a “coin flip” because it’s about making the right decisions and reading your opponent
Also 90% of cast get at least 40 percent WS punish of some kind correct me if I’m wrong
mainman didn’t feature the part of the stream where the jin main hop on stream to write a long paragraph and then chat just copy paste it and turn it into a copypasta xD
20:11 is where TMM kinda lost me. What else would you call making a decision based on an assumption rather than acquired knowledge. Sergie master can't see into the future. He has to hope the Leo player doesn't duck like before.
Anyone who visits the tekken reddit often knows Novaseiken and how much of a jin downplayer he is, this guy has like a thousand posts downplaying and defending jin like he's Saul Goodman.
Let me preface this with the fact that I don’t main either of these characters, so I don’t have a horse in the race. I think this guy is making an argument for what these characters do on paper. We’re not robots, we’re not pewgf’ing every -13 interaction. Imo it’s still harder to make Kazuya work at a higher level.
I’m just saying I’d rather fight Kazuya than Marduk
Because Kazuya is easier for you to deal with
@@kemalerdemsahin410 yeah if I make a mistake I won’t die from 1 combo unless it’s CH PEWGF
These response videos recently just begs for actual discussions regarding these topics. Could be chance for a very interesting and insightful back and forth between 2 POVs. Slim chance it happens though.
6:00-6:35 everyone has confirmation bias.
Glad to hear your genuine response to these kind of people and statements @themainmanswe . Truly speaks for itself in my ears with years of experience, Could not agree more with you. People still look at Kazuya on paper and judge him, or if they havent got the experience against him.
Just that statement on which less skilled players always has a chance to win against better players falls apart in so many ways.. Sounds like every one should play Kazuya at Tourneys ?
First of all, one game plan is not enough to have in higher lvls, if you wanna try 50/50 good luck.
Second, Any player has a chance to win against any player at any time with any character.
Thirdly, Most characters simply have more tools than Kazuya and thereby can apply more gameplans to win!
Kazuya is thereby the most fundamental gameplan characther in this game, and that is damn hard!
Would also put him in low C tier.
I actually agree with the Jin main, You should have seen the whole video he explained about jin's movement nerf and I am convinced Jin is not S Tier
It's so disheartening, man...
I really tried my best to bring this issue into light.
Such a golden opportunity wasted, since TMM is a beacon for the community and people don't know about this, *including himself.* The general consensus is widely oblivious about this fact. People really don't know and it's quite natural that they wouldn't know because you can't judge movement and hitboxes by visualy looking at a character, so people just assume on his visual appearance.
I felt really sad and disappointed because I never even expected he would come across my vid. The way it happened, he simply not addressing my points and ending like that on the agreements, it would be better if he didn't. :/
@@NovaSeiken it could've been better if you didnt start the first 20min with bad arguments
@@NovaSeikenyou started the video in bad taste, that's why
When you see “mainman responds” you know it’s going to be funny lol
i think you should watch the rest of the response on a different stream. totally fair for not being down to sit there for a 1 hr video but i think the second half deserves your attention.
Wow he stepped knee to left once.
And you?
Immediately recognized this as the guy with all the most downvoted posts on tekken Reddit
Main man couldn’t take it…kinda rage quit…plus he was about to shit his pants….or else it can be put like….jin main beat tmm’s arguments to the shit.
I learned Jin and Kaz from the TMM. I will say that Jin is easier to play than Kaz (I main Jin also). Kazuya has to be PERFECT play, you can't mess around, and you gotta know the punishment, and the learning curve to play Kaz takes a long time. Jin has a lot of moves to learn, but once learn it's easier to put his moves in gameplay, and movement is good. I have took a break from Tekken for a month, been playing Kaz to relearn the fundamentals and play Jin better for doing so.
Actually watched this video before this, and was so excited to watch this react. It was a well put together video the guy did.
18:16 I rewatched the whole set again and this is simply not true not a single time tmm step an electric
Another Jin main not realising how carried they are
True
Most Jin mains just can’t own up that he is op
But carried is insane tho
@@ZANGA_but to make him broken it’s extremely difficult
Jin doesnt carry players bruh. So so so wrong
Lmao kazuya is weak?
His electric tracks to weak side
His twin pistons launched on -13
Hellsweep 2nd hit is wallsplat and uf3 wall breaks lol.
The only reason he is not played in tournaments is beacuse of slight execution and less moveset and there are more easy characters
Kazuya cannot be considered the hardest character to play and have "arguably" one of the most streamlined "game plans" of the entire cast. Is this scenario, having a streamlined (not braindead) game plan is great because we are talking about true 50/50s (Vortex), considering even ssl can be beaten by doing extra wavedashes to reset the axis. It makes the character significantly easier to learn and play beause you know exactly what you need to do or aiming to do. This is where Jin's winrate decreases drastically: he's game plan is not clear, and his design makes it even more unclear. Is he a defensive parry character? Counter hit character? 50/50? I think the "dumb down" of the character equals "more streamlined" just like Kazuya is... and honesly, the fact that his hellsweep no longer launches (with that weird backturned combo that won't even wallsplat properly) is actually a buff, precisely because he is now leaning towards a more streamlined agressive style of play
This kinda agrees with what TMM thinks is a well designed character: well defined flaws, strengths and, thus, a solid and recognizable gameplan.
I'd like to point out as a sidenote tho that Jin is a very good jack of all trades, to the point that the player can play the same character in many ways during a match. Of course, there will be characters that are better at poking, better at ch fishing and punishing, and so on, but Jin can transition fluidly and continuously through all of these toolsets while having great keep out tools. This is a great strength for a character to have, a flexible and versatile gameplan. Sadly, due to the nature of being versatile, balance and execution difficulty is often an issue: either the character is very hard (like jin in t7) or just too good to the point that it's not worth playing more streamlined characters and being locked to a single win condition.
I personally enjoy more when we have streamlined characters but with a few hard ones that allow for a lot of versatility.
Btw, my reply was just me commenting on your thoughts, not trying to rebuke a point or anything.
THE EDGELORD HIMSELF, NOVASEIKEN OMFG
00:00 jin players explaining how to play fundamentally and optimally
39:01 kazuya players
Playing as Jin after playing other characters, most of his punishers seem to lack range with the exception of F4 Or B2, 1.
Sure he has moves for all situations but most of them are inferior version of what other characters have. He is literally a jack of all trades.
If talking about gimmicks, maybe his parry and f4 mixup(but this one only works against newbies). And perhaps that hellsweep, but needs execution which I lack with gamepad.
Overall he needs a lot of matchup knowledge to be effective, most of the Jin's are easy to beat including me when I play him. So I can't really understand how he is high tier, unless his move list is condensed to include fewer but more effective tools. All of that is likely why he also has very low win rate.
Why does everyone want smoke with MainMan all of a sudden??😂😂
cuz they think they can benefit from TMMs large following. They will attempt this even if they will look like morons.
"he sounds like a jin main already" damn mainman you have zero chill the dude couldn't talk for one second without taking a verbal counter hit launcher
When someone says "kazUya" just immediately f*ck you... Just... His name is literally pronounced every time in character select, how do you still not know it? Aaaah >_
This was particularly fun because every "disagreement" statement in the video started with "TMM is right, i agree with this. BUT.... "
TMM didn't watch the video. He stopped at agreements, unfortunately. There are so many things he clearly doesn't know about T7 Jin that weren't addressed.
His argument for jin's f4 is like people arguing for akuma saying he's severely nerfed and that it was much better on launch but we all know he's still broken. Yes f4 was stronger before T7 but F4 being OP has a lot to do with the moves you get to play around with while having f4 like homing M4 that covers tracking, 2,1 helps lock down, zen cancel helping you retain your turn, db4 giving you low counterhitting option, d4 and zen giving you high evasion, b2,1 covering the low profile mids and electrics giving you frames to abuse f4 even more. Don't forget parries and uf2 if you actually do lose your turn while using f4, 2,1 or b2,1. This is how I got tekken God by basing my entire offense around f4.