When the engine is built with an EGR system, the whole system is designed to work together. The EGR valve and EGR cooler control the amount of oxygen that's brought into the engine, which controls the combustion temperature, and keeps it within range. When the system has been deleted, often these calibrations aren't properly taken into consideration. The compression ratios aren't changed, the temperatures aren't dropped, and the engine timing isn't altered. Suddenly you've created an environment where overheating and high pressure could create some serious problems. For any further questions on EGR Systems and replacement components, give one of our ASE Certified Technicians a call at 844-447-1453.
@@Highwayandheavyparts Also this isn't limited to diesels either. Gas engines can suffer the same fate if you remove an EGR valve from the system. It causes knocking and pinging and the engine is not tuned properly to not have one. My Ranger once had a clogged EGR tube full of soot and it could not get exhaust flow to the intake of the engine. It got bad enough that the pinging cracked the head gasket at cylinder 5 and caused combustion gas to get in my coolant. So head gaskets had to be done. All that from an inoperable EGR valve. Seems like the people who try to remove these devices are the same ones that remove intake resonators or exhaust resonators and say having them on reduces engine power and is just to make the engine quiet when they don't actually know how these things work with acoustic tuning. Also removal of things such as these items is almost like someone putting a band aid on something cause they don't maintain their truck or car to keep these systems running effectively and efficiently. I like my shit working as it should how it came from the factory and I'm a car enthusiast. If I wanted the vehicle to do something different than what it was meant for I'd buy something else. The older I get the more educated I get about not tampering with the way a vehicle is designed unless the OEM quality part is subpar to a better aftermarket alternative.
I am repairing a bad delete on a Cummins ISX CM-871 right now, in a 2008 Kenworth T-2000. It was one of those Big Tuner Shop deletes, everything stripped off the motor, the only thing they left intact was the VG Turbo, which was a good thing. The truck had no power and was in constant derate. No head failure yet, I think we caught this in time before the motor blew. It had roughly 4 hours of high heat issues, spread out over a couple of months according to Cummins Insite. The cams look good, as do the rollers, so no damage there. First thing I did was to remove the DOC and DPF filters, both were intact with a few holes drilled in each. That would explain the high heat events and all of the chunks of soot in the turbo when I removed it. Also the high internal pressures in the motor, oil seeping out around the valve cover and oil pan. The front structure looks to have held up, as the truck had a hopefully professional in frame a few years ago, prior to this crap delete, which looks to be recent according to the computer. Then the EGR Cooler, that is gone. With the CM-871 the EGR Cooler also cools the #5 and #6 cylinders, they do make a bypass kit for this motor, the delete shop simply installed a plate, so the back of the motor was not getting any cooling. The water pump, it was for a CM-570, and was installed with lots and lots of RTV, as was the cooling housing that holds the coolant filter. Instead of purchasing a new gasket, they loaded it up with RTV too... None of the bolts were properly torqued either, the water pump bolts were already working their way out. The only thing holding everything together was RTV. And let me note, you could not see any of the RTV until I removed these parts. Because of this, I need to get into the cooling system, starting at the thermostat housing to see if any of this RTV made it that far. I just hope none of it made it into the radiator. Because of the high heat events, I am also replacing the oil cooler and oil thermostat. The turbo was cooked, right on the verge of failure from the looks of it. Even the oil and coolant lines to the turbo were damaged. The actuator was toasty too, and loaded with soot where the actuator and turbo housing meet. I ordered a new reman turbo and actuator from YTS Turbo in Griffin GA. The reason I was happy they left the VG Turbo, as there is a $1000 core deposit. The work they did installing the turbo, oh, they did change the exhaust manifold when they removed the EGR Cooler. The turbo, it has oil and coolant lines running to it. These lines have an assortment of washers and o-rings, most all were missing. I have no clue how this turbo did not grenade. Very very sloppy work, but you would never know until you started removing parts. Then the exhaust, due to the high heat, it destroyed the "S" pipe coming off the back of turbo to the filters, that was another $800... I have yet to pull the cal file to look at the delete, I need to get the rest of this mess fixed first, then we will worry about the programming. Right now, I am roughly $8000 into this professional delete in parts alone, and damn glad we were able to save this motor. When finished, I think the parts bill alone will be touching $10,000. It would have been wiser to simply install two new filters, DPF/DOC, and complete an EGR Tuneup on the motor than having to go through all of this. We are looking at what, $15,000 to repair all of this damage that was supposed to help the motor? Delete your trucks and this could be your future.
I wish we had a TV in our shops waiting room with this video on a constant loop. It would save me from having to explain these issues. Then I could get back to cutting deleted engine counter bores because the liners are bouncing around due to combustion events they weren't designed for.🤦♂️🤷♂️👨🔧
I am new to diesel. Just bought a 2021 Chevy Silverado with a Duramax 3.0. So many people talking about deleting the EGRs. As an engineer, I just can't imagine the consequences of deleting the EGR because I understand the extreme complexity of the inter-dependencies. The Duramax 3.0 was designed from the ground up from scratch. The EGR system is designed to be part of the whole. Properly deleting it would mean redesigning the entire engine. The consequences of removing part of a complex design without problems is akin to editing a complex computer program which we didn't design and build and don't fully understand. Editing it will more than likely introduce more bugs and problems than solutions.
Spot on guys, your advice on downsides of EGR delete should be widely published, far too many myths and absolute incorrect information out there. Higher cylinder pressures and associated higher temperatures are due to fundamental change to the combustion process. Great work thanks.
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How does deleting the EGR change compression ratio?
When the engine is built with an EGR system, the whole system is designed to work together. The EGR valve and EGR cooler control the amount of oxygen that's brought into the engine, which controls the combustion temperature, and keeps it within range.
When the system has been deleted, often these calibrations aren't properly taken into consideration. The compression ratios aren't changed, the temperatures aren't dropped, and the engine timing isn't altered.
Suddenly you've created an environment where overheating and high pressure could create some serious problems.
For any further questions on EGR Systems and replacement components, give one of our ASE Certified Technicians a call at 844-447-1453.
@@Highwayandheavyparts Also this isn't limited to diesels either. Gas engines can suffer the same fate if you remove an EGR valve from the system. It causes knocking and pinging and the engine is not tuned properly to not have one. My Ranger once had a clogged EGR tube full of soot and it could not get exhaust flow to the intake of the engine. It got bad enough that the pinging cracked the head gasket at cylinder 5 and caused combustion gas to get in my coolant. So head gaskets had to be done. All that from an inoperable EGR valve. Seems like the people who try to remove these devices are the same ones that remove intake resonators or exhaust resonators and say having them on reduces engine power and is just to make the engine quiet when they don't actually know how these things work with acoustic tuning. Also removal of things such as these items is almost like someone putting a band aid on something cause they don't maintain their truck or car to keep these systems running effectively and efficiently. I like my shit working as it should how it came from the factory and I'm a car enthusiast. If I wanted the vehicle to do something different than what it was meant for I'd buy something else. The older I get the more educated I get about not tampering with the way a vehicle is designed unless the OEM quality part is subpar to a better aftermarket alternative.
I am repairing a bad delete on a Cummins ISX CM-871 right now, in a 2008 Kenworth T-2000. It was one of those Big Tuner Shop deletes, everything stripped off the motor, the only thing they left intact was the VG Turbo, which was a good thing. The truck had no power and was in constant derate. No head failure yet, I think we caught this in time before the motor blew. It had roughly 4 hours of high heat issues, spread out over a couple of months according to Cummins Insite. The cams look good, as do the rollers, so no damage there.
First thing I did was to remove the DOC and DPF filters, both were intact with a few holes drilled in each. That would explain the high heat events and all of the chunks of soot in the turbo when I removed it. Also the high internal pressures in the motor, oil seeping out around the valve cover and oil pan. The front structure looks to have held up, as the truck had a hopefully professional in frame a few years ago, prior to this crap delete, which looks to be recent according to the computer.
Then the EGR Cooler, that is gone. With the CM-871 the EGR Cooler also cools the #5 and #6 cylinders, they do make a bypass kit for this motor, the delete shop simply installed a plate, so the back of the motor was not getting any cooling.
The water pump, it was for a CM-570, and was installed with lots and lots of RTV, as was the cooling housing that holds the coolant filter. Instead of purchasing a new gasket, they loaded it up with RTV too... None of the bolts were properly torqued either, the water pump bolts were already working their way out. The only thing holding everything together was RTV. And let me note, you could not see any of the RTV until I removed these parts.
Because of this, I need to get into the cooling system, starting at the thermostat housing to see if any of this RTV made it that far. I just hope none of it made it into the radiator. Because of the high heat events, I am also replacing the oil cooler and oil thermostat.
The turbo was cooked, right on the verge of failure from the looks of it. Even the oil and coolant lines to the turbo were damaged. The actuator was toasty too, and loaded with soot where the actuator and turbo housing meet. I ordered a new reman turbo and actuator from YTS Turbo in Griffin GA. The reason I was happy they left the VG Turbo, as there is a $1000 core deposit.
The work they did installing the turbo, oh, they did change the exhaust manifold when they removed the EGR Cooler. The turbo, it has oil and coolant lines running to it. These lines have an assortment of washers and o-rings, most all were missing. I have no clue how this turbo did not grenade. Very very sloppy work, but you would never know until you started removing parts.
Then the exhaust, due to the high heat, it destroyed the "S" pipe coming off the back of turbo to the filters, that was another $800...
I have yet to pull the cal file to look at the delete, I need to get the rest of this mess fixed first, then we will worry about the programming.
Right now, I am roughly $8000 into this professional delete in parts alone, and damn glad we were able to save this motor. When finished, I think the parts bill alone will be touching $10,000. It would have been wiser to simply install two new filters, DPF/DOC, and complete an EGR Tuneup on the motor than having to go through all of this. We are looking at what, $15,000 to repair all of this damage that was supposed to help the motor?
Delete your trucks and this could be your future.
I wish we had a TV in our shops waiting room with this video on a constant loop.
It would save me from having to explain these issues.
Then I could get back to cutting deleted engine counter bores because the liners are bouncing around due to combustion events they weren't designed for.🤦♂️🤷♂️👨🔧
The way to keep a modern diesel running at its best is to follow the manufacturer guidelines.
Don't delete.... running a Cummins ISF2.8TDI, double breather catch can and good maintenace (clean EGR, cooler and admission once a year) no issues
I am new to diesel. Just bought a 2021 Chevy Silverado with a Duramax 3.0. So many people talking about deleting the EGRs. As an engineer, I just can't imagine the consequences of deleting the EGR because I understand the extreme complexity of the inter-dependencies. The Duramax 3.0 was designed from the ground up from scratch. The EGR system is designed to be part of the whole. Properly deleting it would mean redesigning the entire engine. The consequences of removing part of a complex design without problems is akin to editing a complex computer program which we didn't design and build and don't fully understand. Editing it will more than likely introduce more bugs and problems than solutions.
Franks, we couldn't have said it better ourselves!
Spot on guys, your advice on downsides of EGR delete should be widely published, far too many myths and absolute incorrect information out there. Higher cylinder pressures and associated higher temperatures are due to fundamental change to the combustion process. Great work thanks.
Agreed with you