Doctor Who "The Legend of Ruby Sunday" REVIEW
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- Опубликовано: 13 июн 2024
- There's always a twist at the end...
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Fine, I'll watch Pyramids of Mars before next week, stop bullying me. ;) /s
😂🤣
Just relax and you might
enjoy yourself.
This Thursday's Tales of the TARDIS is Pyramids if you want to watch it with the context of this story in mind.
👏👏
If they pay this off it will be good. They never really took the story of the Osirons in a way iy could have been done, Cannot wait to see your film :)
He did mention the previous doctor, he said 'how is your uncle?'
i also took that line to reference himself.
Let Kate be Kate
Yeah I was coming to say this.
Ahh makes sense
@@CouncilofGeeksThanks for the reply! Looking forward to your review on Monday, as I always look forward to Jessies!
As a classic Who fan the ending does land for me, but I don't think that matters. I saw someone tweeting about how they're new to DW and didn't know who Sutekh was, but they were super scared and excited that the god of death has like possessed the TARDIS and trapped the Doctor. I think the target audience watches the show very differently than we nerds who have spent half a year making Susan Twist a household name. I think most people haven't noticed Susan Twist and are discovering this thread for the first time at the start of this episode and having a lot of fun with it. Suddenly for them all the previous episodes are going to become rewatchable in a new way, which is always fun.
To most people knowing who Sutekh is isn't as important as knowing that this is the Big Bad who the Toymaker and Maestro are afraid of. This is the worst of the gods. That's what's important, that all this has been building up to a god who isn't of play or music, but of DEATH. That's the true reveal.
Eh I guess, but it doesn’t land as well say Yana or Daleks in the first and third seasons because there’s no real context. A god of death is cool and all, and sure I’ll go do my research, but I do completely lose all emotional investment in the moment when the episode places a huge moment upon the characters name, and acts like I should know when I definitely don’t. Throws me out and makes me lose emotional context. With Yana, you at least had the emotional weight of it being another time lord, something the show had built up all season (hell all series) with emotional context for the Doctor. Here tho, the things the show had at least laid some emotional train track for, Susan being the Doctors' granddaughter as well as her mystery appearances, were pushed aside for a big name reveal of a character I would say at least a good chunk of the audience doesn’t know. All that said, I’m glad it worked for so many, but I have to give my own experience as a review and it didn’t land for me. But that said, its one episode out of a season I have loved so, whatever.
@@jessiegenderafterdark5287 I dunno, I think we've got beef now Jessie, which can only be solved through...erm...some sort of livestreamed sporting competition maybe? And I will...lose 😅🤣❤
Sutekh is one of the names of the ancient Egyptian God Set who was the God of destruction and definitely bad ass. He was a major inspiration for the Hebrews' Satan.
@@nicka3697 He was also the third son of Adam and Eve: Cain, Abel and Seth, origin of the semitic races.
I'm of two minds! Mostly because, as a nuwho watcher only I just thought it was a new thing which I was happy about. When the anagram started doing something different I had a tinge of worry that it'd be The Master for some odd reason. But I can see how not having any connection to it would throw someone off. Funnily, your videos have inspired me to start Classic Who. I was putting it off but would've been even more fun if I'd started sooner.
For those of us who remember the 4th Doctor story “Pyramid of Mars”, the reveal of Suetekh was in no way anticlimactic. But I can understand why it would come off differently to anyone without that history.
I absolutely love that serial, but it was still anticlimactic to me? It just felt bungled and poorly done.
I've seen a great deal of Classic Who including Pyramid of Mars, but it was ages ago so the Sutekh name still didn't register with me when watching this. And I don't remember him being one of the major DW villains, or being some all-powerful god figure like he was here.
@@triplejazzmusicisall1883 "The [set animal] is usually depicted as a slender canid, resembling a greyhound, fennec fox or a jackal, with three distinguishing features: a stiff tail, often forked at the end, which stands straight up or at an angle, whether the animal is sitting, standing, or walking; its ears, also held erect, are usually depicted as squarish or triangular, narrowest at the base and widest at the squarish tops; and a long nose, often with a slight downward curve. It is normally depicted as black, but may also have been reddish." - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_animal#Physical_characteristics
I was basically all but screaming "oh fuck oh fuck oh fuck".
They could have done a bit more to build up within this season, though.
@@davidjames1389 Four mentioned that if Sutekh came to full power, not even the Time Lords would be able to stop him, and there was no one else still around who could.
I've not seen the classic episode Pyramids of Mars, so I didn't get the whole "Sue Tech" reveal, but my housemate got it and he was fittingly fanserviced with excitement, especially as they used the original voice actor.
It's legit good, in my top 10 of classic Who!
I’m with your housemate! Best of the season so far!
I haven't seen Pyramids of Mars yet either, but I know Sutekh from the Doctor Who comics and got so excited!
I think you misinterpreted the doctor asking about Rose’s uncle is asking about Wilf, but Wilf is her grandad so he was asking about 14.
Yeah correct, missed that
Wilf is actually her great grandad.
This does also imply Wilf has probably passed in universe
Mrs Flood might be Susan. She knows too much, and they have brought Susan up for a reason.
Also the doctor says that some timelords regenerate to hide, then not two scenes later Mrs Flood says “I’m always hiding away” or something to that effect. I’ve only watched the episode once so I may be misquoting but I got the gist
I still don't get, though, why Mrs. Flood was a grumpy neighbor blaming her neighbor for the TARDIS being on the sidewalk, but then knew it was a TARDIS after the episode. What changed? She didn't recognize it as the TARDIS when we first met her; If she's Susan, she would have recognized the TARDIS right off the bat, right?
@@MrMetallix That was my exact thought too, plus going way back she had that 4th wall break with "What, haven't you ever seen a TARDIS before?" And then there was a moment in this episode where it felt like she was speaking directly to us, "He waits no more." Either she's a reality bending god or something else is going on with her that's relevant. Plus, what the heck was she doing with grandma? Was she going to take her somewhere for safety, is she going to use her as bait, eh... maybe I'm getting ahead of myself lol
Fenric
I agree, I thought that since the first time we met her.
SPOILER:
I just learned some context about the Big Bad Reveal. Russel T Davies created the British series Queer as Folk and one of the characters was a Doctor Who fan, as well as Davies himself. The Classic Episode "Pyramids of Mars" with the Big Bad Sutekh (from this Episode) was Davies favorite Doctor Who episode.
Yes, there's a scene where one of the characters has been jilted and watches a clip of Sutekh's servent brining the gift of death over and over again.
Anagrams, Acronyms, translations , RTD loves wordplay
Aldus Silvester, you mean?
It's a classic Doctor thing. Usually with the Master.
My mind was blown with the Sutekh reveal. As soon as the Harbinger said, “His names are many.” My first thought was, ‘no’. Then she said, “His name has been Set,” and my jaw dropped. I never thought they would bring him back. Even with the talk of gods and immortals this season, he never came to mind. I thought it was going to be some new god we hadn’t me yet, but I’m so glad it’s Sutekh.
I'd already heard rumors it would be Sutekh, and yet I was still yelling curse words and jaw dropping at my TV 😂
@@michellybells8657 I saw two different youtubers suggest the sue-tech / sutehk connection, but I dismissed that as too unlikely 🤣
@@jayanderson9375 I'd seen a couple of memes but honestly thought it was a bit of a joke, like 'what obscure Classic villain should it be'?
But as soon as I heard Gabriel Woolfe's tones I got chills.
I’d guessed she was going to be Sutekh, but my opinion was influenced by watching Doctor Who commentary and fan theory videos. Then RTD posted a a collage of photos of Susan on IG, and the caption said “who is she? Clue: There’s always a Twist at the end!” Which wasn’t much of a clue in itself, but the clue for me was in the comments. People who’d previously worked with Susan Twist were saying how lovely she is, but I noticed that they all referred to her as “Sue”, not “Susan”, and that made me think “Sue Tech”. Then in the episode when they said that Susan Triad is known as “Sue”, I was certain I was right, especially as they addressed the TARDIS and Doctor’s granddaughter fan theories so early on in the episode.
@@jayanderson9375Yeah same, I wanted it to be true but it seemed a little farfetched and silly, and so by the time it was happening I'd given up on it... they they suddenly start to go there and I suddenly start cursing at the TV!
I'm REALLY happy to see Gabriel Woolf brought back as the voice of Sutekh, which he played in the original episode! He's 91 years old and still with us, so I'm thrilled! I've always loved his vocal style and his cold, smooth delivery in the original. As if all the universe was just a boring plaything to him.
I noticed he also voiced the Beast from the Satan Pit. Glad he is still able to participate 😊
I really liked the way Sutekh introduced himself, naming all the gods of the pantheon, and then all the names he himself had. It reminded me of The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit episodes when The Beast intoduced himself, also going through his names. In fact, I'm pretty sure they're one in the same, because the musical leitmotif sounded VERY similar.
Side note: The leitmotif that played at the end when Ruby was in the time window was part of The Master's theme from way back in RTD's first era.
I had big Satan Pit vibes too, before they named themselves, I honestly thought that was where it was going. Especially because I haven't watched much classic who.
I’m glad someone else noticed part of the Master’s theme, I was thrown off when I heard that
Yeah, got Satan Pit too. People being possessed, the guy saying he was in hell. Carla even said its name is "The Beast".
Fun fact about both Sutekh & The Beast, they’re both played by the same person, so not really surprised you got similar vibes from both.
Thanks to Gabriel Woolf playing both Sutekh (in 1975 and in 2024) and The Beast, a lot of Classic fans back in 2006 thought that The Beast might actually be Sutekh. After the line from Ruby’s mum, I’m thinking that theory could suddenly hold water.
You say that there was no mention of the 14th Doctor but I thought that’s who Ncuti was referencing when he asked Rose how things were at home with her uncle. Uncle Doctor?
This season really needed more episodes to better set up and pay off the big twists.
Yes! Too few episodes. I hope they expand season 2. I sure miss the good ol' days when each series was comprised of a proper and relatively consistent amount of episodes. This season felt so rushed for me 😕
Yes i’ve been saying the same , 8 episodes is a joke . My main criticism is it feels like this series could be watched in any order at all (except 8) and it would make perfect sense . There’s no build up of plots , of character development and turmoil, of a sense of continuity. We go from the doctor kissing and losing rogue to immediately HEY Unit we’re deep on the mystery to find this woman . No breaks for regular who episodes , no cathartisism , no character development.
It really did, and I can't help but wonder if there was meant to be more. The Doctor shows a few versions of Susan Twist that we never saw, so I wonder if maybe those were from episodes that got scrapped for whatever reason. It's really confusing to show them with very little context behind them.
One of the things we've been maybe-promised is a season per year. To that I say: Nah. If apparently a tradeoff is needed, give us a season every other year with 16 episodes instead. Even in ye daye, Doctor Who didn't do the traditional British season thing of under 10 episodes, but I guess everyone gets that now.
(That said, 8 episodes is just enough for the Susan Twist Twist. Any more of them not recognizing her, or recognizing her but not investigating it, would have been infuriating. So... an unforced non-error in a sea of unforced errors?)
Yeah, I think we all think that - but at the end of the day all those decisions are not entirely in RTD's power.
The whole going into the time window via the VHS and that timey wimeyness changed the film was honestly one of the cooler things the show has done, conceptually and visually. Really well done.
I loved Mel:
"Finished? Now stop grizzling and fix it!"
Best Mel line ever.
@@tortysoftThat’s not a high bar considering how many of her lines from her original appearances were “AAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!”(even more than the other companions)”. Still, this IS a great line. I’m so glad that Mel was brought back to be redeemed. The writers in the 80s really did Bonnie Langford a disservice. She can be fantastic when she’s given good material to work with.
@@maddenedgeek7726 Oh, I agree very much !
Yeah, and I was pleased that for once, the edit didn't just fetishistically focus on Ncuti crying.
Don't get me wrong, Ncuti is a great crier. He cries REALLY well! But the reliance on it as a dynamic this season has made it feel far less impactful when he does it. It had become the "it's the ¾ mark, time for tears" like a bad small town DJ who you can set your watch by because they play the same songs at the same time every week
It was a great echo back to her dynamic with Six, it made me laugh.
We got Rose Noble, not Rose Tyler, by the way. It does get confusing.
Thanks for dropping this in the comments. I got confused lol ("Rose Tyler is back??").
@@FOJO27 That would be just like her, wouldn't it?
@@HuntingVioletsTrue that!
During the conversation about if she was Susan, the Doctor said that a Time Lord sometimes changes their face just to lay low for a while. And almost immediately after that, Mrs Flood says she’s just been laying low for a while.
I think if Susan does come back next episode, it’s in the form of Mrs Flood.
They made the allusion to the "Oldest One" back in the Devil's Chord but because it was so cryptic there wasn't any way to directly link it to him.
The scene where the Doctor takes Ruby back to the destroyed London WAS directly lifted from ‘The Pyramids of Mars’ story, when the 4th Doctor (Tom Baker) did the same thing to Sarah Jane Smith.
I did recognise it on viewing ‘The Devil’s Chord’.
It was a subtle pointer to Sutekh.
It also explains the ‘Death Touch’ used by Susan Triad; as Marcus Scarman, who was Sutekh’s puppet in ‘Pyramids of Mars’ also used it.
As a classic who fan, I can confirm the ending was very, very cool!!!!
I think the point is that Sutekh used the name Susan to hurt the Doctor. This is very personal to Sutekh after the events of Pyramids of Mars.
But how would Sutekh know the name? Susan was twenty years gone by the time that episode happened.
@@Nick-pu3of He's a god, right? He knew.
@@Donnagata1409 But he's not a god. He's an Osiran. He was born, he grew up, he died of old age. Gods don't do that. Sutekh calls himself a god sometimes because he has an ego, but he's not actually a god.
@@Nick-pu3of I think post-Wild Blue Yonder myths, fantasy and legends become reality so Sutekh and his followers believed he was a god before but that belief now makes it real.
@@moonbeans7042 Are you arguing that there is no canon, anything goes, and we might as well not even bother remembering lore?
Some of the Gods listed have appeared in Doctor Who before, the Mara was a reoccurring 5th Doctor villain and the Trickster was an awesome reoccurring villain from the Sarah Jane Adventures
I liked the episode, except for Morris. The entire episode all I could think about was how absolutely horrifying the idea of a 13-year-old working for UNIT was, and being present for all of the events of the episode. Child labor is not....a great look, UNIT
Agree
Especially a thirteen year old who looks even younger than thirteen.
RTD must have looked at Wesley Crusher and thought "Cool, Wesley should be younger and more unrealistic."
I mean not just Morris, They also have Rose working there at 15.
Did you notice that The Doctor didn't call out Morris for addressing him as "Doc"?
Me at the start:
If it's Sutekh, Russel's lost "it".
Me halfway through:
Ok, ok, he's bringing back The Beast, from The Satan Pit.
Me by the end:
Ok, it was Sutekh, but Russel kinda pulled it off.
Side note:
Funny we only get one trick with the gods, but the gods can keep using that Arvinger trick on repeat lmao.
My guess is that Ruby's real mom is actually a good person who knew what was gonna happen so placed Ruby where she needed to be in order to defeat this universe-ending threat, and that's how the 2 mysteries tie together.
The doctor saying he doesn’t have kids didn’t make sense to me since in the doctors daughter the doctor tells Donna he’s been a father before.
My first thought when he said that was that they haven't been born yet, in his timeline yes, but in terms of linear time, the first Doctor won't have kids until some time in the future. The phrasing was weird though.
Y'know what, just go watch "Pyramids of Mars"... everyone, anyone, if you haven't seen it go watch. It's one of the best Classic Who stories for me. Self contained, Fourth Doctor and Sarah-Jane. Absolute bliss.
Plus you'll see a scene that is directly referenced this season. (No spoilers.)
I kept refreshing my RUclips for this last 10 minutes waiting for this! 🙂
BTW the mention of the Doctor's granddaughter could just be a set up for him seeking her out in the next season. But yeah who knows.
"You would make a good dalek."
That line killed me. Right through the heart. OOOOOF.
Overall I liked this. I think making the Doctor think that it was granddaughter Susan was a red herring that sort of paid off. I think there were too many mystery boxes at once. However, I do keep going back to the random musical number at the end of the second episode. There's always a twist at the end. We haven't reached the end yet.
When I heard the line the Doctor said about not having any children yet ".. Life of a Time Lord.." I immediately thought about Jenny (from the 4th series).. Even if The Doctor thinks she is dead, or doesn't really consider her as his daughter.. she technically is..
I almost laughed out loud when the cgi cloud transformed into the big muppet rat.🤣🤣🤣
Not a rat, a jackal!!!
@@Donnagata1409 ok, Muppet Jackal.🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Same, Sutekh looks goofy af 😂
I felt like so much of the writing in this episode was directed at the audience, knowing we would be following breadcrumbs, poking fun at our falling for red herrings
“Evil? Your evil is my good. I am Sutekh the Destroyer, where I tread I leave nothing but dust and darkness, I find that good!”
Sutekh from Classic Who, Fourth Doctor - Pyramids of Mars.
For US and Canadian viewers, all of the 1963-1989 run of Doctor Who is available free with ads on Tubi, UK viewers have it on BBC iPlayer 👍
I must say - so far I prefer the classic Sutekh design! And where are our android mummies 🙂
Ahhh... I have to confess, I never twigged that Rose was from the previous shows. I just thought, oooh, Ruby's just made a new BFF. That's nice.
Lenny Rush was the new face you couldn't name. Such a joy to see him.
Ok this season of Doctor who just jumped all the way to an 11!! We may not know who ruby's mother is but we know who the bad guy is and by the end of this season we may not only get the doctor's granddaughter back but also the time lords as well. Now let's sit back and see how everything ends because it's may not be very pretty for anyone. Btw... my doctor is no 4 and his biggest foe wasn't the master it was Sutekh, the most powerful foe the fouth doctor ever faced. And different RUclipsr have been guessing it could be him for most of this week. I think that this was a great tie in with classic who. Two classic dr who villans are back and not one of them is the master. I loved this episode and can't wait to see how this plays out. Pretty sure who culture will be excited about the return of sutekh,seeing that it was one of their top guesses as to who he who waits was. 7 days to see how things turn out😢 18:25
at this point I just want to theory-craft wildly for fun, because the contrived cleverness is just so disappointing... lets say Ruby is Susan which will be revealed whenever she 'retires' as companion through a regeneration, thus the mystery hooded woman is actually the doctors daughter
That would be cool. Time isn't bending to prevent Ruby from learning who her mother is. It's bending to prevent the Doctor from learning.
But wouldn’t the doctor recognise her?
@@mujiescomedy279I'd say so, unless there's a Chameleon Arc thing going on, like in Family of Blood and End of the Universe
Oh, that turn of phrase makes me wonder if Jenny ("the Doctor's daughter") was Susan's mother all along
@@thatotherted3555 interesting thought, I'd forgotten about Jenny 🙃
I really enjoyed this episode, but I do agree it’ll depend on how the finale plays out. I am a Classic Who fan, and enjoyed Pyramids of Mars, so I was excited by the reveal of the villain. I do realize a lot of fans will be “wait, who?” And I do agree there was a lot of mystery box stuff here that didn’t necessarily connect organically.
I really, really hope they pay off all the Susan stuff. The fact that they have brought back nearly every major figure for a cameo except Carole Ann Ford as Susan. It wouldn’t just feel pointless and trolling to not pay this off, but it would feel a bit disrespectful and kinda cruel. Pretty sure she’s mentioned she would like to come back in some capacity and she and the fans deserve that moment.
I get what you mean but I actually kind of liked how the Doctor was like “I’ve been doing this shit long enough to assume these two mystery boxes are related” but it def could have been a bit more organic
There's also the fact that although Susan Twist was in an episode before the Doctor met Ruby, he didn't see her. The first time he saw her was just after Ruby joined him, so the idea that the mystery woman is appearing wherever Ruby goes is something worth considering.
Jessie. Stop what youre doing and watch the 4th doctor serial the pyramids of Mars. It's the first appearance of sutek. More commonly known as Set he was the Egyptians God of death and decay
Pyramids of Mars and Colin Baker season 22 is the only classic Doctor Who I have access to - which one do you think I should watch first?
@@lasseehrenreich5502Colin Baker seems like a lovely person but he suffered from the same issue Whitaker did where he got stuck with not great stories. They can still be fun but they aren't the high point. That being said Mark of the Rani is cool and I like his companion Peri.
Pyramids of Mars is a fan favourite and I would definitely watch that first.
I watched the Pyramids of Mars on TV as a child - it’s fair to say I’ve been waiting for this for 50 years. I was applauding as Sutekh the Destroyers was revealed.
take a shot every time jessie says "mystery box" haha. (of water!! stay hydrated folks)
Ahem! OK.
Beer has a high content of water, right?
I kind of liked the way the Doctor came in and explained he'd been seeing Susan Twist all over the universe and everyone was holding in from telling him "well, actually, this lady is a really famous Tech billionaire who is in the news all the time right now". Also, this *is* the "opening the mystery box" episode, so it's not a distracting you from the ongoing story, it's a build up to the finale story. I guess you can argue that there's no reason for all this happening right now in universe beyond "this is episode 7 of 8", but I was enjoying all the mystery stuff enough that that didn't bother me - so it worked for me is what I'm saying here.
The Sutekh reveal was a big jaw dropper for me, I loved that.
Oh yeah, the time window thing - I loved that the reconstruction actually did look like it was a three dimensional paused VHS tape - the washed out colours, and everything being a little bit blurry and distorted.
I have thought Mrs. Flood MIGHT be Susan from the Christmas episode.
Much less convinced now, but it still could be possible. She also waited and maybe a little ticked off he never at least checked on her.
Whoever she is, that mystery us enough to get je back next week.
They now have a David Tennant Problem, I know he is supposed to be having barbecues not far from U.N.I.T headquarters and we are supposedly done with him but he is just up the road, is he really not going to show up for something that will threaten everyone he is having a barbecue with? especially when his adoptive niece is right there.
I'm confused as to why the Doctor said he doesn't have a daughter. What about the episode THE DOCTOR'S DAUGHTER from the Tennant era?
I think that the Doctor considers Jenny as being deceased as he didn’t actually witness Jenny being revived by regeneration energy.
I’m a fan of classic DW and the reveal landed for me. The whole episode felt like a roller coaster of red herrings, clues, and misdirects, and it really had me in just the right level of anticipation when they finally revealed Sutekh. The anagram thing didn’t do it for me though, that was silly and could’ve been left out.
Sutekh and the Mara are both from Classic Who (along with the Toymaker)--not sure about some of the other gods that got name-dropped (maybe Big Finish, maybe hints at future antagonists)--basically this was a big ol' payoff for the classic fans--I guess less so for the newer, heh. The voice actor for Sutekh has shown up a couple times in New Who I believe--at the very least he was the Devil voice in the black hole episode. Nearly 50 years since Pyramids of Mars, and the man's voice is still that powerful.
I wonder, when the Doctor regenerated that butterfly some how, did he mark Earth with is energy like the Time Lords with his genome, was Earth saturated lightly with that same Chrono energy, that led to his preoccupation with Earth
WHOA.
Well if Susan Triad has any connection to time lord stuff, then her amnesia works a hell of a lot like the fob watches. In the family of blood, we see that Smith has dreams of his adventures as the doctor, I think that's where they might be trying to tie it in
The Triad tech in UNIT reminds me of Starfleet networking every ship of the fleet even though the Borg is a thing.
More to the point, as someone who first watched Pyramids of Mars when I was a kid. And multiple times since. Sutekh coming back is cool, but the flow of events here sits weird. If it weren't for "The Confused Adipose" who has been championing Suteck for months and months now as the grand reveal, I would have called it a Huge Stretch to get there from what was presented.
Sutekh in the original story was an ancient god-like being who the Timelords fought, canonically well before the Doctors time (As the doctor himself says). And in that story he has to look the god up in the Tardis Archives. Suteck was originally held in a place beyond the universe by a pyramid on mars that was powering a barrier. When the Barrier failed the doctor used to tardis to banish him to beyond time and space.
According to Adipose, taking the Tardis to the edge of reality was what let a part of Sutekh latch on and come back. But from there everything feels a little confusing and contrived to me.
I like that the god is back in some form. But I'm unsure how he's here. And I can't help suspect it's not ALL of Suteck. Just a piece of him that is reaching out ala-The Mummy. The next episode will be cutting the piece of so Suteck no longer has a foothold - not defeating an actual ancient god.
I thought it was probably one of the best 'first parters' of NEW WHO and also one of the best cliff hangers ever. Ncuti Gatwa is already one of my top 3 Dr's of all time.
I'm grateful I wasn't alone in the Bad Wolf vibes. Who would've thought a seemingly mild reference to "Pyramids of Mars" would be the biggest clue of the season?
Instead of Harriet, his harbinger should have been named _Neil_ - as in “Neil before Sutekh!”
TBH I’ve always found Davies’ style mystery boxes more fun in setup than payoff, but I’m enjoying this so far.
Gabriel Wolf, who voices Sutekh also voiced the Beast in Impossible Planet/Satan Pit, which was obliquely referenced when Ruby’s mom said “It’s the Beast!” I watched Pyramids of Mars after school when I was in the 1st grade and it creeped me out! I remember acting scenes out for my friends during recess. Philip Hinchcliffe era Who went hard!
ScreenRant said that Susan Triad was like an avatar of Sutekh, similar to a character in the Pyramids of Mars.
I also think she may have been wherever Fifteen traveled as a result of Sutekh merging with the TARDIS.
OOOOOH! That's right! Great, thanks! Of course she was always there because she was travelling with the TARDIS!
I was on the edge of my seat this whole episode. I absolutely adored it! Mrs. Flood got scary again, they way she talked to Cherry, and I think she's also some sort of harbinger or herald. The acting in this episode was stellar. I love seeing UNIT, and Rose Noble interning/working at UNIT makes me so pleased! I loved what little we got of her in the specials, and seeing her back, and getting on so easily with Ruby was excellent. The bonding over Davina McCall made me laugh. And Mel! Oh, Mel! She was excellent here! The way she talked to the Doctor when he was on his way to see Sue Triad - the echoes of the way the Doctor used to talk to her sometimes, and then to see Ncuti's Doctor's reaction to her telling him buck up and get things done... Loved. It.
And yes, okay, Sutekh wasn't an anagram. It was a play on words though. Sue Technology. Sue Tech. I thought that bit was actually clever, and using Susan Triad as an obvious anagram and trap was clever, too. The idea of it being Sutekh started forming in my head when the deeper male voice started going over Triad's own, and I realized that's what was intended just as the name snapped on the screen, and I started laughing and crying at the same time. I did NOT see that coming, but it makes sense looking back through the series. Every time we've seen Susan Twist play a role, the character has been associated with death somehow. It stretches a bit in "43 Yards", but can still work. The Doctor didn't see her in the alternate timeline, just Ruby, and maybe she was the one who made it so everyone stayed away from the woman, since in that timeline, Sutekh couldn't enact his plans against the Doctor.
As to why they focused on Susan Triad maybe being the Doctor's granddaughter - that was Ruby's doing. She's the one who made note of the connection - and only she and the Doctor himself were aware that he had a granddaughter called Susan. If Ruby hadn't said that aloud, the UNIT team wouldn't have focused on it. But because she did, it gave them another angle to explore, aside from the possibility of her being Ruby's mum. There are lots of red herrings, and I am here for them. I cannot wait until next week!!!
The ending did land for me as I am a Classic Who fan. Tom Baker was in a highly rated series with Sutekh as the villain (Pyramids of Mars). It’s a fan favorite for sure.
I think the Susan Tardis thing was to distract the Doctor from who it really was. Susan was the Marcus Scarman character (see Pyramids of Mars)
I thought (think?) that Marcus Scarman was effectively possessed by Sutekh when he entered the crypt, and he was controlled, a bit like how Sutekh really force controlled the 4th Doctor. Scarman was a body being used, and he more or less dropped dead when Sutekh no longer needed him.
@nancyjay790 i guess not a direct analogy, but i dont think she was his physical body either, like the creature Tom's Doctor trapped. And there's more to her - like how shè kept popping up through history.
@@nancyjay790yeah scarman was dead, he was just a puppet, I imagine Susan is the same
@@redeem147she only pops up where they’ve been, probably because Sutekh been clinging to the tardis for a season, time can be messed around with by him and he can bring his herald along
I'm still expecting The Trickster to be Ruby's mom. Or what if Ruby is Susan?
Also on the subject of calling Rose beautiful being a bit sexist, she also immediately negs Ruby, saying she's short.
@4:00 - NOOOOO Ncuti specifically asks ROSE NOBLE "how is your uncle?" (ie. 14th doc Tennant)
during the episode. Watch with subtitles
having characters consistently validate that a black trans woman is beautiful might not be for you, because you are not a black trans woman. but for the people it was meant for, having a widely popular show like doctor who acknowledge that fact, is incredible.
Susan (the granddaughter) has been brought up several times this season. At least 2 that I can think of. It didn’t just pop out of the blue this episode.
And I think the one who waits used her name to make the Doctor not try to stop her before it was too late. That’s why Suteck taunts him with “did you think I was family?”
Double twist, Ruby is Susan Foreman's mother (JK). As for Susan Triad, I get the feeling that she was trap designed to lure the Doctor to a specific time/place and away from the Tardis. Looks like Sutekh wants to steal the Tardis.
Sutekh wanted to steal the TARDIS back in "Pyramids of Mars." His body was trapped on Mars.
I don't think it's out of the question that Ruby's mother could be a future incarnation of the Doctor...
@@greenisnotacreativecolour Yeah that would explain all the temporal awkwardness of the Doctor showing up at that moment. But I think I would be disappointed if it was that simple.
Best episode of the season so far. Loved when the Doctor pointed out the TARDIS anagram, only to have everyone tell him that yeah, they know. I've been saying it's too obvious for weeks now; like a magician's sleight-of-hand misdirecting you. And the Sue-Tech thing (though I can certainly not claim credit for that), but that seemed far more plausible.
It was great to see Gabriel Woolf return to the role of Sutekh after 49 years.
Pyramids of Mars (4th Dr - November 1975) was a brilliant serial back in the day. Sutekh was a character who really made me pee ma kilt (I was 4) .
Hey Jesse! With ST, SW, & DW all at risk of being in their last seasons, I'm spreading my watching of the Eps over the entire summer, and will eventually get to your most welcome reviews. But, on June 9th, (all info from the Toronto Globe & Mail), Lynn Conway passed away on June 9th in Jackson, MI at 86. She was a "pioneering computer scientist who was fired by IBM in the 1960's after telling managers that she was transgender, despite her significant technological innovations, and who received a rare apology from the company 52 years later." So. ABSOLUTELY RESPECT!!! ❤
The name changed to S Triad shortly after the specials so Unit weren't on to her until she did the anagram, which explains why they were happily using her technology.
I bring Sutekh's gift of liking this video to all humanity
Two comments. First, the Egyptian god of evil/death, is Set/Sutekh. You don’t need classic Doctor Who to identify him. That said, in classic Doctor Who, Sutekh is a very advanced, alien, not a god. I’m looking forward to an explanation as to why he is a god now. The Osirins were just super advanced aliens that earthlings mistook for gods. In the classic episode, everything Sutekh uses to try to escape his prison is technologically-based - the mummies are robots, the pyramid is a rocket, etc..
I belieeeeeve it was all tech related because he was trapped, he’s stuck in the chair and had to instruct his disciples how to free him. This time round, he’s unbound, he can be everything the 4th doctor was afraid of happening
The Doctor did not consider Sutekh a god. The Time Lords did not. That does not mean Sutekh and the other Osirans did not see themselves that way.
Ive been doing some Internet research And found a post on reddit from 7 years ago theorizing that maybe Susan was the presidents daughter from the stole the moon tale. Since this story came back in this series And the wiki recounts at least one mention of Susan being Lord presidents daughter in the prev doctor who Canon I believe this might be it
I figured the Susan Twists were because Sutekh was bound into the Tardis, and they were dragging him around. Also, Pyramids of Mars is one of my favorite classic who serials, and definitely worth watching. Fourth Doctor and Sarah Jane Smith. It's great.
Sutekh is in the Pyramids of Mars, and the CGI at the end is quite a great update of the old puppet. I hope they bring back SiL in season 2 ! With an old 6th Doctor crossover like the 5th and 7th in the final of Jodie ! NO : the master is hidden as Isaac Newton. Notice how newton went evil when he said :"mavity!". And the doctor killed the goblin king using the power of mavity on the church where the spawned Sutekh returned - a sacrifice on christmas eve to a devil (the darkest night of the year).... wait for christians to call this once they realize it
I got more excited by the mention of The Beast but that's probably because it was my Doctor Who era
Sutek is pronounced like Sue Tech. Susan Triad tells Mel to call her "Sue", and tech is her whole thing. So yes, not an anagram ...but I still laughed out loud at the line.
My brain might be a little bit broken, 'cause as soon as Sutek manifested, my brain went to puppies 😅
Ruby and Rose being instant friends was great!
Mel on a moped was adorable!
I wanted to see more Shirley (the UNIT person in that cool wheelchair), but let's hope the reason she couldn't appear was because the actor is too busy with other projects.
The Doctor punching the wall was a surprising moment of toxic masculinity, but I suppose everyone has bad moments.
Harriet's skull mask-thingy makeup was *so* cool! Not so much with Susan but IDK if it's because they were supposed to be different things or if the makeup just didn't work on her that well for some reason.
Also, the Doctor *has* a daughter! He just doesn't know that Jenny lives/regenerated. Maybe she's Ruby's mum?
"If you're you're a Classic Who fan, did the reveal land for you?" Well Jessie, someone tweeted something about watching a certain classic serial after the episode and as I am cursed by knowledge that told me how the episodes ends 😭 lol but I can say a lesson Classic Who taught me, is you can't really make an assessment of the story after watching part 1 🤠
Sukkah was in a Tom Baker 13 season show entitled Pyramids of Mars. Sukkah vowed he would return after the doctor prevented him.from escaping from Mars He is the Egyptian God of Death .
Well, the ancient Egyptians _treated_ him as a god, but he's actually one of the Osirans (aliens, possibly extra-dimensional in nature). Sutekh seemingly died of old age (6,000 or so years from 1911) after he was released from his prison on Mars and attempted to travel to the source of his confinement located on Earth when the Doctor used some time-travel technology to keep him in the dimensional hallway so-to-speak and age him to death on the doorstep of reality.
I'm not really a huge fan of mixing god-level threats to the [insert large spacial geographical feature here]. Let the Toymaker and Maestro be their own thing, the Trickster's gang, the Black and White Guardians of Time, the Beast in the Pit, the Eternals, the Daemons, the Master of the Land of Fiction, and Sutekh all be their own things without matching wordplay Harbingers. The universe and all of time and space are big places after all.
For me, i was okay with the doctor just seeing the two questions were related. I flash back to buffy the vampire slayer when buffy says its halloween so something is likely to happen. Giles just says "yes, and experience tells us itll happen to us so no reason to go looking."
Experience says when the doctor has multiple questions they are related.
There still two mystery identities. I’ll be disappointed if we don’t get a real Susan Foreman reveal. Even Caroline Anne Ford who played her would be disappointed, she been up for returning for years.
Most Grandparents do wild stuff with their grandkids because they don't feel the pressure of responsibility. The Doctor just literally didn't know what he was doing.
i do feel like the susan fakeout wasn't like. Unneccessary? Because as far as I picked up from the ep it was specifically something set up by Sutekh to get the doctor to land the tardis in unit AND leave it there while running off to a separate location... so it had to be something BIG that he would for sure leave the location for i guess...? i need to rewatch to see the exact logistics of it. I agree that it would be pretty disappointing if there wasn't like anything more to do with her in the last ep tho and it was Only that... i hope mrs flood or rubys mom turns out to be her after all, or susan twists character somehow. Idk how they're gonna make room for both an emotional ruby mom reveal and an emotional doctor susan reveal...(unless mom and susan are the same...) maybe one of those will be left for Christmas special or next season? hm, much to think and theorize about indeed
I didn't even realize Sutekh was a classic who villain. I straight up just thought of the Egyptian god of death, which lent itself really well to the whole mythological aspect of this season. So in that respect, the buildup and payoff really worked for me. Sutekh's design was also really freaking cool (around the TARDIS at least, I hope they give Susan Twist a mask for the next episode cuz the melty flesh look ain't it babes lol)
Also, the time window was a fun way to exploit their version of “The Volume” in-story, as it’s like a sci-fi version of that.
As someone who loves Pyramid of Mars having Sutekh be the main villain of the season just floored me. Absolutely fantastic episode
I did appreciate how the cold open brought up both the TARDIS anagram and Susan because that was plastered all over my RUclips for a week. Especially funny was the Doctor revealing the anagram and then everyone at Unit going "yeah obviously".
I do have to agree on the episode being mostly just digging into every mystery they set up, and that not really being the most narratively interesting way to handle it. I am impressed that they got to every running thread though, even ones they didn't call attention to like the TARDIS groaning, that one felt cool because I picked up on it but it had only happened like, twice.
Very much depends on next week to see if this one was worth it, but for what it is, I can appreciate an episode of "you should not be touching any of this" style buildup and the reveal itself is almost perfect. (I just wish they'd used Sutekh's iconic mask design instead of that Jackal thing). But on its own, this one is just decent.
I loved that fake out anagram because it spoke to the way the random reacted to the name knowing RTD using anagrams to hide things in the party. Like duh I'm not going to make it *that* obvious for you 😂
@@writeonshell The cold open is proof that RTD knows exactly what he's doing because I swear the fandom had all of the reactions to these clues that this was written around.
Also, to be fair, "Sue Tech" was also one people picked up on beforehand too and it's possibly even sillier. Way less obvious, but a very silly way to have the name be significant nonetheless... so credit to the episode that the screen glitching out and shifting into literally that managed to actually feel like an "oh shit" moment.
I think the biggest factor for why otherwise disconnected plots feel so mashed up is the 8 episode season. If we still had 13, 12, even 10 we might be able to see these spaced out into their own episodes more.
One of the reasons I’m so concerned that they’re already wrapping season 2 is there’s no feedback for how well the shorter seasons are working until it’s too late.
I’m interested to see part two, but this episode felt busy with too many characters (very Journey’s End vibe). I was hoping for a Doctor and Ruby centric episode that was more intimate since her arch has felt like a smaller story (a foundling looking for mom). Maybe it’ll turn more in that direction and be less of a superhero movie next time.
This - I haven't watched Jessi’s take yet (just starting) but am already scrolling comments.
Death?
I’m not super feeling this so far. I really hope next week is more focused.
I’m a 53 year old classic Who fan. I’m pretty sure “Pyramids of Mars” was the first story I saw when I was 7. I agree that the episode was mostly a checklist of things they needed to do in the finale and didn’t really gel or make much sense. It fell kind of flat. I think it’s cool that Sutekh is back, but I hope they do something interesting with him in the next episode.
I like it a lot more than you - I think the mystery boxes were paid of perfectly - every time a new piece of information was revealed, I was thrilled with excitement. I was touched by how emotionally overt all the characters were - oh and because I know everyone else is going to say I am too - it is Rose Noble not Tyler...anyway looking forward to see Identiteaze with my mum - love from Denmark.
without old who background knowledge it just had strong "if the impossible planet was a season finale/mystery box payoff" vibes
might be a bit edgy but seems damn fun
That last moment twist!
I am the Terror!
I am the night!
And it wasn't Darkwing Duck, Brilliant!
It does kinda feel like a fireworks finale with all the mystery boxes going off.
Sutekh face the doctor in his first incarnation in the pyramids of Mars
Wow. Sutekh's been working out.
This one was crazy. Sutekh being the highest deity tho? Naaah
In Sutekh's original appearance he was explained to be an ancient god that literally even the other gods couldn't kill. He very nearly destroyed Earth just with his mental powers from within a prison a whole planet away. The Doctor explains that the Time Lords have nothing on him, and that if he got free all life would be destroyed.
(Actually I'm not so sure if the other gods couldn't kill him or refused to, but regardless he was explained as being the most dangerous of the elder gods.)
"Pyramids of Mars" is one of my favorite Tom Baker serials, so I was hella excited when the reveal was Sutekh. I can see where someone that hasn't watched much Classic Who might not have had the same reaction, but I'm here for it.
I think Mrs. Flood is either Incensor, the God of Disaster or the harbinger for Incensor. Purely based on her name being a natural disaster.
Biggest cliffhanger for me? WILL Mrs Flood get Cherry Sunday her g*ddamn cuppa?!?! 😮
😂 but seriously, I thought the buildup of tension & suspense was great. But I def see where you’re coming from with the Too Many Mystery Boxes trope, but I very much enjoyed the little character beats springing up here & there. THAT’s what makes Doctor Who Doctor Who for me.
Also GREAT to see Kate get some characterization!