For me that was incredibly dumb because he's not a future version of the Doctor, he's a Present version of him, both are the same "Age", The Doctor doesn't become a completely different person when he Regens so it's very stupid that the "Bi-Regeneration" version of him acts like a completely different version...
@@xLionsxxSmithyx The Doctor is always The Doctor, even The War Doctor. But each incarnation of The Doctor has a distinct personality. Yes, Fifteen and Fourteen are exactly the same age, and they're each The Doctor. But only Ncuti's Doctor could give David's Doctor the thing they both have the most need of - comfort for all The Doctor's losses, from someone Who knows exactly what those losses are and how deeply the pain cuts.
I was personnally really touched to see Gatwa's Doctor as a more stable incarnation hugging the 14th Doctor like how you think you'd do with your past self, like "It's gonna ok". I felt it was implied that Ncuti was a future incarnation that somewhat regenerated right now instead of the future, because he was saying "we're timelords, we do rehab out of order" and "I'm good because you fix yourself", it's like "the future is now"
@desknerd Either that or he’ll fade away TARDIS style to sync up with 15. I think 15 being from the doctor’s near future and pulled into his present is accurate based on one line 14 has when 15 tells him to help push them apart. “Does this work?” Not “WILL this work?” “DOES this work?” Implying 14 expects 15 to have future knowledge he currently doesn’t have. Granted 15 saying he doesn’t know if the pushing will work throws that for a loop, but temporal memory loss when doctors interact is an easy excuse.
In some ways I worry that it glosses over what real recovery looks like though. Because recovery isn’t necessarily easy. And just suddenly being fixed isn’t really a thing. I think some of that is why David tennant and Christopher Eccleston were so special. They had so much character that was felt from the doctors past. I hope Ncuti Gatwa isn’t written out of having his past effect him to whatever level
@@lukep7885 Yeah, on one hand I get that we've had a broody morning sad boi war doctor for maybe a bit too long, but I was excited to see some of the Doctor's process for learning to let go and love himself. I hope we're not just fully into the good times era and that Ncuti still has some soul searching to do regarding everything he's been through during his Doctor run.
I saw this the first time and I thought, well, 14 is the doctor who gets to have therapy and 15 is the one who finished therapy and goes on to new adventures. There is no real and fake doctor, but just THE Doctor. Every Doctor is the Doctor. There is no one more of a doctor than the "other" ones.
I think Ncuti Gatwa's Doctor is going to be incredible. The scene where he was comforting the fourteenth Doctor was a very strong start for him. The Doctors have always had issues around the people they love, mostly their companions but there have been others, including Wilf, River Song, and even The Master. All too often The Doctor has been on the "losing" side: so many of their loved ones have been ripped from them. When The Doctor married River he already knew how she would die. Ten was able to save Wilf, but lost that incarnation of himself in doing so, and he wasn't ready to go. Twelve lost both Clara and Bill, and wasn't even allowed to properly grieve Clara. Thirteen gave up the dream of having a life with Yasmin. I'm 70. I'm old. And that isn't just two ways to say the same thing. Mentally I'm still strong. I'm dealing with my medical issues, and doing well. The thing that makes me feel old is that my list of people I love who are dead is now longer than my list of living loved ones. The Doctor is much older than I am, and I'm not talking about years. But Ncuti's Doctor feels young to me. He remembers all those losses vividly, he feels the pain, and he has compassion for all of his former selves, the ones who never got a chance to finish grieving their losses before they themselves had to move on. And Ncuti's Doctor has had an unheard of opportunity, the chance to hold one of his former selves in his arms and comfort him. It feels to me like that act of compassion has worked to heal himself. Ncuti's Doctor is emotionally healthy in a way that The Doctor has not been for a very long time. And that means that he has more to give wherever he may be called. Ncuti's Doctor is one of the very few physicians who actually have healed themselves. And that is awesome.
All of this is exactly how I feel. I'm not as old as you, but I've lost a lot of friends along the way, and that incredible self-compassion from Ncuti's Doctor to David's brought me to tears.
Gatwa was fantastic from his first second on screen--he showed the manic energy, the weirdness and compassion of being the Doctor within just a few minutes. I have good feelings about this guy.
I did love that Shirley Anne Bingham got targeted for standing up by Kate when she got Giggled, considering the fuss that real world gigglers made when she crossed her legs in the first special. Makes RTD almost prescient, also loved the Flash Gordon reference with the tooth.
Also I don't really think that Gatwa got the short shrift in this special. Regeneration episodes are ALWAYS about the actor saying goodbye. If they are lucky the new actor MAY get a line before the end. Ncuti got some really good scenes in this ep.
It's not about him not getting enough time in this episode. It's about him not getting his fresh start that other Doctors got. Tennant is still around so that gave a lot of people an excuse to claim he's the real Doctor and Gatwa is just another one. Regeneration is about saying goodbye to the old and hello to the new. This time that didn't happen. Tennant is still there so RTD and BBC can bring him back if ratings drop. It is a bit disrespectful to Gatwa to have his introduction be this way and it feels especially bad when he's the first black first openly gay Doctor
I like the “order and chaos aren’t the only things in the universe, there’s also play”, it’s a really cool way to think about and write characters: the Master is a chaotic villain, the cybermen & daleks are very ordered villains, while having a completely different kind of villain in the toymaker (and let’s face it, the Doctor is a playful hero) is a really cool angle.
I didn't think of it before, but reading your comment reminded me that in Ursula K. Le Guin's _Always Coming Home_ there's a whole section about different models or metaphors for how the universe is: order, chaos, war, a road, etc. The one settled on by the future society depicted in the novel isn't play, but it's a related concept: a dance.
I love the bigeneration as a trauma response. Like he is carrying so much he needs to hug himself and leave part of him behind to heal in a way only living one day at a time can. But he should have left the TARDIS behind, Rose could have offered him her shed instead. This should be the end for him unless there is a future reintegration where his healed self is absorbed into the current Doctor
Honestly, as someone with PTSD, I would love it for thematic reasons if they did eventually do a "reintegration" as the conclusion of the 15th Doctor's arc. Like, part of it feels like 15 is leaving that trauma behind... without fully acknowledging that it happened. Like, he's leaving the physical PERSONIFICATION of that baggage behind, so he can operate without thinking about it... but I would love it if he were to "revisit" that baggage and reintegrate with it. But what's changed is that he's not reintegrating with the same 14, he's reintegrating with a 14 who's rested and healed from that trauma. So said reintegration could represent him having "moved on/healed" from that trauma, but still being okay with acknowledging the fact it happened (rather than ignoring it completely).
I really like both of your comments. I was left thinking "wait, but if they're splitting, doesn't Ncuti's Doctor *also* need some recovery? He still went through all of that stuff, and he's still churning forwards into more adventures like he just called out Tennant's for. It hadn't really occurred to me until reading these that this might be an almost DID-like split, where he's splitting off versions of himself able to deal with some of that trauma. (I mean, not exactly like DID but still.) I do also agree, though, with @Lady-Y that if they want to go that road, there does need to be some sort of continuation or conclusion of it - it shouldn't just be "we split, now everything's fine". Either way, we'll see where it goes.
I actually like the bi-gen a lot. Yes it has the things about keeping Tennant around, possible spinoffs, etc, we'll see how they deal with that. But what it also does is, to allow Ncuti and the 15th doctor, to be less burdened by the doctor's history both in character and on a meta level. In character we have 14 being able to settle down, while 15 can REALLY move on. In those few moments already, having 15 hug 14, seing a different mindset already. On a meta level, we can have 14 be the one who keeps the ideas of the flux, timless child, etc (as they did well in these episodes) and 15 go on his own new adventures, have new companions, a new character arc, moving on from all the controversy of 13's writing.
This is what I also really loved about the bi- gen, all the Doctors of nu Who have been burdened by loss, and it's kind of been piling on and I've enjoyed that journey, but the energy that Ncuti Gatwa comes with is so vibrant and joyous and I'm excited for that energy in the upcoming adventures!
The bi-gen worked really well for the story. But Tennant's doctor didn't actually regenerate, he just spawned a Ncuti. Or did he regenerate into the same face again?
It’s the meta way for RTD to split ‘Nu-Who’ from ‘Whoniverse’ Who, as they’re literally calling the next series ‘Series 1’ and classing it as a soft reboot.
The bit with all the doors in the Toymaker's shop felt oddly like a retread of last week's episode - the Doctor and Donna getting separated in creepy corridors, then each having a horrific body-horror scare scene before being reunited. On the other hand, Donna's "I'm already running!" was a classic moment.
I can kinda see the toymaker hallway scene as a set-up for the idea that (at least) one of the bigenerations *is* (at least a little bit) the toymaker. We saw the Doctor getting separated from Donna, and we saw that the toymaker can make passable replications of people. What if the toymaker hid a little of himself in the Doctor (either in the hallway or in the energy of the laser weapon), in pursuit of that "fair play" doctrine, which then got expressed in the bigeneration? One of those doctors was really quick to get that (definitely toymaker tech) mallet, after all...
I think I'd feel more conflicted about how they handled Ncuti's introduction if the wait before his first full episode was going to be months, as it has been in the past, instead of the two weeks its going to be. I think they saw this as their one opportunity to do a little bit more than give the new Doctor a chance to say a few words and fly off in (or more often crash) the TARDIS, knowing that even if he got overshadowed here Ncuti is getting the big Christmas Special to really shine. Plus seeing a new incarnation of The Doctor interact with the previous one immediately after regeneration is kinda cool. I just hope 15's line "The only reason I'm fine is because you fix yourself." means what I think it does and there's some link between them that makes 14's existence finite. I also hope the tooth with The Master in it means we're going to get to see how Michelle Gomez's incarnation became Sacha Dhawan's.
I agree, Ncuti Gatwa is going to shine lots starting with the Christmas Special and the ensuing season. I highly doubt he'll be overshadowed to any extent.
I don't get a sense that Ncuti is going to be overshadowed. Going by his performance, I ... don't think that's possible. Extraordinary episode, totally threw me for a loop, in such a good way. It kind of feels like the show has unlocked a new level.
Right??? I mean, yes, I love Tennant. But the energy Gatwa brought to this? Feels like the rare occasion where someone steps into a previous master's shoes, and instead of them being too big, they BURST them! 🤭 It was _mesmerizing_ watching the both of them interact on the screen, he was every bit Tennant's equal and he'd barely been on five minutes! 😳🤯
Yeah this. Gives me a lot of Eccleston but even more playful (new tardis really fits that vibe, I think), and I love it. I could see his potential for this, in the sex ed scene where he goes from talking to his dad to confronting Adam, and he's clearly grown perfectly into it. And really this was more like the hmm "Doctor shows up right at the end of the ep" pattern, I'm sure we'll have a "getting familiar" solo ep before coming back for Rose. My real concern is just uh. Basically holding onto Tennant in the wings, in case of too much backlash... Even though it was a lovely "retirement" of sorts and all that that felt good. NPH did a perfectly good job, but frankly brought nothing someone else couldn't do to the role, it was mostly just him doing his campy schtick. Between Barney and some... what feels like a tendency towards subtle misogyny, kinda getting tired of him. I really hope they continue with the Davies era focus on attempting connection first. The other showrunners didn't ditch that of course, but there was usually more focus on "there's some kind of enemy, figure out what it is, AHA!!"
If you think about how every other Doctor has arrived, Ncuti ended up with a slam bang start. We certainly haven't seen a new Doctor with 15 minutes left in the episode. We already have the Doctor's personality figured out two weeks before Christmas. There is no "Who am I?" needed.
Yeah. I'd never seen Ncuti in anything so I really had no idea how he'd do as the Doctor. But he's only had a handful of minutes on screen so far and any doubts are gone. He's just the Doctor.
As a fan of the 6th Doctor, I know pretty well Mel. She had a very strange wibbly wobbly story. She was cheerful, funny, intelligent and got a lot of energy. She care deeply about the Doctor well being and wasn't afraid to tell him when he was wrong or cheer them up. She might not be one the favorite companion of all time, but she did got good stories with BigFinish.
6 is my fave classic Doctor! He and Mel were great because they loved each other and had absolutely zero interest in holding back when they thought the other was being an idiot. It's a genuine loss that Colin had to wait for Big Finish to get to really BE the Doctor.
Really hate Classic series Mel. Compared to the companions either side of her, she was extremely poorly written (yes, even poorly writtern than 'is hot, will travel' Peri), I've not heard her much on Big Finish, but I've enjoyed the ones I have heard, and she was really good in this.
I'd forgotten that--because of odd time-travel shenanigans during Trial of a Time Lord, we never see Mel meet the Doctor for the first time and it seems kind of like she popped out of nowhere in a causal loop (I think other media attempted to actually depict how Mel met the Doctor, further in the future from his perspective).
The use of Mel here was many, MANY light-years better than her use in televised Classic Who, FULL STOP! In televised Classic Who, she was a computer programmer that never got within a mile of a computer and whose sole observed character traits was super-screamy fitness fanatic that made Ol’ Sixie have the last words of “Carrot Juice carrot juice carrot juice” and screamed her way all through the notoriously bad Season 24 before we FINALLY had her replaced with Ace at the end of “Dragonfire”. For me, she’s basically the Classic Who equivalent of “The Runaway Bride”s Donna Noble…not someone you would ever in a billion years think you would ever want to see again…but then, when you ultimately do, she comes off WAY better! 😅😁 Mel Bush in this special felt very much like the Mel Bush we should’ve had DECADES ago…right off the bat, she’s working for UNIT and IS AT A COMPUTER! Immediately I’m like YASSSSS!!!! Someone who has computer programming in their background NEEDS to be at a computer and she shows her intellect quite well in her scenes. Even better…NO SCREAMING! She’s FINALLY being depicted as competent, smart, witty, brave and not one glass of carrot juice in sight! 😁😁😁😁 If this is the Mel Bush we’re going to get in Ncuti Gatwa’s era then I am all for her being back. Mel Bush DESERVES to finally get to shine in televised Who and I really do hope her renewed time on the program continues to be used this effectively so she can finally escape the shadow of her Classic Who appearances… Here’s to our now-beloved crazy Auntie Mel! 😅😍😁
Thank you for the review! For me, I felt...almost relieved by the bi-regeneration. To me, especially in the few moments we had to take in Ncuti Gatwa's portrayal of the doctor, it really felt like splitting from Tennant was, in a way, letting go of all of the baggage that the doctor has been carrying through all of the series since it came back in 2005. It always felt, before, as if, no matter which doctor you were seeing, from the 9th to the 14th, all of them were burdened by the weight of everything they had lived/experienced before. Triumphs, sometimes, yes, but mostly their failures. It really felt as if all of them, in a way, were consumed by their failures. For Ncuti to say, so easily and honestly, 'You can't save everyone,' to me, really felt like a real shift in how the doctor might approach his existence going forward, and I'm looking forward to seeing how they develop that.
It's the beach full of star fish. Walk along, pick one up, and throw it back in to the ocean. They won't all be saved, but you'll have done the most you can. 15 seemed to really understand that instinctively.
Same! I think it was a good decision and allowed a fresher start for The Doctor as a character. Ncuti's Doctor just shined so brightly and warmly throughout the last part of the episode. Can't wait for the Christmas special tbh.
Honestly, I feel like the bigeneration is cushioned for me by the fact Tennant Doctor has a habit of doing unusual regenerations, like the version of himself that left the universe with Rose. It gives me more confidence that the writers really can just leave him here and then maybe they can bring some interesting stories up in the future by seeing where that regeneration stream went (sort of allowing the main Doctor to wriggle free of some of the canon weight of ideas like the Curator, the Valeyard and other future Doctors we've seen). I also feel like, I've already gone through the phase of stacking a Doctor against David Tennant with Matt Smith. For the first few episodes of his run, I found myself auto-replacing him in scenes with 10, to the point that I often misremember them. I think since 14 was around for such a short time, he didn't have the time to stick in the same way he did last time, and I hope that'll help iron out some of the anxiety. While obviously it's different in-universe, I don't think there's as much difference in comparison with Bigeneration and Regeneration. In each case the new Doctor gets stacked up against the others in ways that are often quite unfair. The only exception is the end of this episode itself, where I think Ncuti did a really good job, and I really liked the unique emotionality of letting the Doctor talk to their previous and new selves. (Also it helps I'm an identical twin so my brain is already buzzing with possible advantages of a story that treats duplication as a positive emotional thing and a valuable relationship [even at a distance] rather than a problem to be solved). While it initially threw me, I think the energy of the scene helped pull me through most of it and I'm excited for if it'll open any interesting future stories. Also it let me make an Oprah joke: 'You get a David Tennant. And you get a David Tennant! Oh my God everyone gets David Tennant!"
Someone on reddit commented that by invoking the whole salt thing on the edge of the universe last episode, there will be other wild ripple effects. We had the Toymaker return, Kate said to put the Toymakers box in Salt, and 15 even mentions that Bi-generation is supposed to be a myth. AND our next episode features literal Goblins... I think this is all an intentional consequence.
I also wonder whether the "Mavity" thing is an aspect of this - the Doctor changing things in ways he didn't expect. Also, I thought that was weird, since Newton didn't invent the word "gravity."
The dude needed a life off with simple adventures. 14 is the doctor who lived happily ever after. 15 was the one ready to take that healing and love and soar the stars again. Thats why he was so full of life. He was truly a regenerated doctor. And he will take the universe by storm. Plus yeah it totally sets up the option of a Disney 14/Donna/Unit Earth spinoff. Also I love how villain musical numbers are becoming a thing. I am so there for it. NPH stole the show.
"Bitter" One word to describe all the new Episodes Who-RUclipsr: Im blind for Faults, integrityless and will not call out any b.s. IF i even noticed it which isnt certain and oh my god, i will most definetly not show Spine and recognize openly the giant Middlefinger that is it make-canon and extra-mention the TImeless-Child, a Storyline the vast majority of Fans did not likeee !
@slevinchannel7589 Did you watch the video? Jessie criticises and praise sin equal measure, a very balanced review! In dr who groups and forums the response is overall positive. Far right spaces, not fans, are the ones leading the hate and vitriol.
This was David Tennant’s mini-series. That’s why I don’t have a huge issue with how Ncuti was kinda pushed to the side at the end. His time is coming, his Doctor Who begins on Christmas!
Mel has gotten a lot of flak over the years for the screaming damsel in distress bit that she ended up doing a lot of during Season 24, but we also see her being consistently intelligent, observant, kind, outspoken, and brave! She's just not an action hero-when she saves the day, it's because she's the one who notices the key details that other people miss, not because she picks up a rocket launcher and splodes the bad guys. Sploding the bad guys is Ace's job. That's why Ace and Mel are such a great team in "Dragonfire"!
Also unfortunate that she was introduced during the late 80s which was a turbulant time for the series. Well she wasn't really introduced bc S23 didn't pan out as originally intended, apparently (though I love Trial Of A Time Lord).
Seeing Mel's brilliance on full display and properly APPRECIATED was so good! I always loved her and wished she got to show more of her devastating intelligence.
I think you can explain away why the bigeneration happened as the toymaker's presence causing reality to be a bit more malleable. Things that normally should be impossible are able to happen. I think the way it was written was perhaps a bit clumsy. But the way it allows the doctor to comfort himself at the end makes up for it for me.
If it was that, I would've liked that being explained or theorised within the episode. As it is it just kinda happened, and I don't really like that. There's a throwaway line about it being a myth, but it sure would've been nice to have had that teased before it happens.
I would have liked bigeneration if it was temporary. Like, it happened because of the Toymaker’s reality-bending wonkiness. But then with the Toymaker gone, 14 finds himself sort of starting to turn to regeneration dust. He breaks down, and he has to let go and become those glowing wisps we always see. But he has enough time to linger for a proper goodbye. That would have been beautiful to me. And closure.
Maybe I’m predisposed to giving RTD the benefit of the doubt because his era is my favorite, but I actually liked 14’s end here (provided they let it end and resist a spin-off!) because of its implications for companion relationships. I like how all of RTD’s companions end their storylines in relatively good positions, it shows that they matter as characters to him, beyond meeting tragic fates so the Doctor can be a sad boy. But there’s still that underlying tension in that the Doctor will always move on in a way that the companions just can’t. That power dynamic is baked into the show and they always address it a little for the drama of it, but it always gets dropped because we don’t really have a show without it. Imo 14 slowing down at Donna’s behest and learning to be a part of others’ lives (as opposed to the other way round) is a really nice way to resolve the tension that (for me) has always existed in the Doctor/Companion relationship, and now 15 can start with a clean slate. Also, I guess I wasn’t worried about David Tennant pulling focus with the bi-generation because Ncuti Gatwa ABSOLUTELY STOLE THE SHOW. I do hope they keep the focus on him from now on and let 14 rest, because wow I’m excited for 15’s run.
The ending with 14th sitting around the table with his found family really highlighted a common part of the queer experience. For some of us, our friends are more a family than our blood relatives. It was really sweet having the Doctor feeling at home and finding his family.
The regeneration (bi-generation) to me looked almost like a reverse of the 4th into 5th doctors regeneration was. In that situation you had Tom Bakers 4th being shadowed by a stranger in white who the doctor talks to in the distance at one point. The mystery was who was the stranger? When Tom's doctor lies dying on the floor he says "It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for" and then the stranger comes walking up to the doctor and his companions and merges with the doctor, regenerating Tom's 4th doctor into Peter Davidson's 5th doctor (a comment from Adrick or Nissa being "the stranger. he was the doctor all along"). so 14 into 15 did feel like a reversal of that - but thinking about it now just brings to mind this: "the rules" regarding how regeneration works, or how it is triggered and manifests, wasn't really established until Peter Davidsons 5th doctor regenerating into Colin Bakers 6th. Before then the first doctor literally just grew too old and regenerated, with the 2nd doctor explaining it as a butterfly breaking out of its cocoon. The 2nd doctor has a forced regeneration, and it was a impossed on him against his will by the timelords (who were OP super beings back then). 3rds regeneration into 4th was the first "regular" regeneration as we would come to see it (setting up the template for 5 into 6 and onwards) and the 4th doctors regeneration was just weird as fuck, with a future ghost of the future doctor merging with the dying 4th triggering the regeneration (also during the 4th doctors era the Time Lady Roman was literally swapping her faces in one episode as if she were changing cloths raising the question of whether a time lord could change at will without dying and without taking a life off the regereation line).
@@luizansounds That would be an interesting way to sorta make sense of what was a really nonsensical part of 80s WHO. Now if only they could explain why he decided opening the doors of the TARDIS while submerged in the Thames was a good idea...
Oh wow, I haven't seen those episodes for more than 30 years, so thanks for reminding me of them! I really appreciate the way you connected those ideas!
The only person who could give The Doctor the solace, understanding and forgiveness he needed was himself. 15's embrace of 14 was what the character needed to heal and move on. I loved it.
I really liked how the Bi-generation played out. We got to spend much more time than we usually get to in their first appearance and we got to give David’s Doctor a nice sendoff with a happy ending.
Yeah! Every time we turned around with 10, something was looking to punch him in the gut. He's had a fair share of sorrow, it was nice to see him NOT have to say goodbye again, but instead go somewhere and REST. (It honestly works better narratively as well. As I said, we're too used to seeing him get traumatized or abandoned. There's only so many Tennant-rain-pouring-down scenes we should be expected to take 😭)
@@Sonof_DRN2004 Considering the number of people I’ve Head complain specifically about “I don’t want to go,” I suspect this was meant as a bit of a do-over.
The puppet show felt like RTD mildly dragging the Moffat method of writing out a companion, but the bi-regeneration to me felt exactly like what RTD did with Rose Tyler. Like you said, what happens next will determine how well that ages. Also, in the behind the scenes to see Bonnie Langford say it was nice that Mel, nominally a computer scientist, finally got to use a computer. No fault of her or Colin Baker, but the writing of that era did neither of them many favors. I mostly remember Mel as trying to force exercise and smoothies on the Doctor.
I don’t think he was attacking Moffat at all. I think he was tying it in to the rest of the Doctor’s traumas to give a pretext for his needing to take a break. That seems to me to fit what the Toymaker’s doing better- the Doctor’s defenses are meant to be hollow and weak, with the Toymaker’s attacks showing how Moffat’s companion endings weren’t as light and happy as they’re cracked up to be. Plus, RTD loves Moffat- it’d be strange for him to attack his friend’s writing.
How I'm processing it is that since the ep where Donna & Rose 'letting it go' so the Doc subconsciously processed his trauma and this is the result. Essentially the new Doc stepping onto the scene saying and comforting to their previous face that I got you, and it's okay. Either way, really really enjoyed the ep! Got me all emotional. I'm even more excited now more than ever for the new Doc Who eps!
Well, the 15th Doctor didn’t even get the keys to THE TARDIS but just A TARDIS. It feels very much like corporate types covering their bases to me? Keep the 14th Doctor on the subs bench at Donna’s and allowed to age up as well? Very convenient…in fact too convenient!😅
@@PaulusAlone I think the 14th Doctor isn't about the corporate mentality so much as RTD looking at a bunch of massive mysteries and say, "How can I wrap them up in a bow?" We now have a "Curator" if we want it. We could have the "Watcher." Heck, if you want a mega wibbly wobbly timey wimey trick, you could have the origin of the Timeless Child.
That's exactly what they're doing and RTD should've known better than to do this BS. Especially for this Doctor or the 13th. These were milestones and why give the haters a reason to downplay either of them as lesser Doctors
I think what you missed is that 14 isn't having more wacky adventures. He's settled into a home life and a real family. He might pop off for some trips with one of them, but he's very much not chasing adventure. Thats the whole point of him joining Donna and co. He's been running forever. Now it's 15's turn.
@@xLionsxxSmithyxit's a consolation prise for us lol. All that trauma especially that chibnall put the doctor and audience through, well you get to keep your favourite doctor alive and well somewhere in the whoniverse as we move on. I'm only mostly joking lol.
Yet, 14 not having wacky adventures feels wrong for a couple reasons: 1) part of his wacky adventures was going around trying to help people, and not doing that feels intrinsically wrong; 2) he still seems to travel in the TARDIS from time to time (Mel & Rose mention trips), and the Doctor's luck is the other part of why he gets into wacky adventures, just by being places, he runs into adventure.
@@Tuaron Remember when 11 stayed with the Ponds while they were looking into the Cubes, The Doctor doesn't like sitting around doing nothing, 14 Sitting around doing nothing goes against The Doctors entire Character.
@@xLionsxxSmithyx While I want to say "exactly", I think that was also the point that RTD/15/Donna were trying to make: that 14 needs to push himself to sit and process, but I agree it feels off.
This was needed, it was time to end the trauma stricken Doctor, the 12th and 13th Doctors where broken figures. A perfect healing process would've been the 11th Doctor healing with 12, but life is messy and the Doctors arc replicates that.
The bigeneration I read as splitting the “Doctor wracked with guilt” from the “Emotionally well-adjusted Doctor” - notice how Ncuti was repeatedly able to support and comfort the 14th incarnation. On Bad Wolf Bay when the Meta-crisis Doctor was left with Rose, that single-hearted one was from not long after the Last Great Time War and still dealing with the rage it involved that Rose had helped the 10th Doctor overcome, and so she had that again with that Doctor. But, I have heard that Disney is referring to the upcoming series as Season 1 of Doctor Who, and I fear that this is them wanting to be able to wash out large parts of the 60 years’ historical emotional traumas on the feeling that too many of their subscribers wouldn’t know or understand those and have difficulty adjusting to the missed history, beyond maybe the Daleks and Cybermen (and The Master, although that was at its best as Missy) and not give the show the viewership Disney wants. These specials, on a certain level, may be essentially a bridge from the BBC Doctor Who to a Disney Doctor Who, with the BBC history being some miasma semi-lost in time, and with Bad Wolf Productions having much more control over the series rather than the BBC, there may not be options to recover some historical grounding.
When you think about it, When 9 regenerated to 10 then 10 to 11 and so on, the newer doctor barely had 5 minutes on screen for that episode. With that I think they did Ncuti a great service. I think I'm gonna really love Ncuti as the doctor from this point onward. As for David Tennant, this could set the stage for years down the road when he could be regenerated into Tom Baker so he could be the curator (from the 50th anniversary episode). How else will Matt Smith meet Tom Baker at that point if not some splitting or other shenanigans? I think using the toymaker thing as a mcguffin for things going sideways was ok. I'm just happy to see 14 get the happy ending that 10 wanted.
The bi-generation is one of those ideas I bristled at on paper, but I like that it allowed the Doctor a happy ending to 60 years of stories and hardship, and some nice explicit self love. I didn’t love the Toymaker stuff though. An omnipotent being who filters all of human interaction through the lens of games is great, but I don’t think they really utilized it spectacularly.
I loved 15th's enthusiasm at the bigen. The way he told 14 to push was very much all medical drama birth scenes everywhere, and it got a giggle out of me (pun intended). The ball dance (that's what I called the game of catch in my head) was also hilarious in its own way. I can't wait to see more of 15 and his thick legs!
I'm 1000% okay with the bi-gen. I thought Gatwa shined like a star next to Tennant and proved he was worthy of the title. Plus, letting the Doctor process his trauma is direly needed. He deserves a happy ending, and this lets him have his rest and eat it too. I'm happy!
It's not about David tho, for me, this is awesome for the possibilities it creates when this new/old doctor regenerates. We can now have a Paul McGann series, a new Matt Smith (limited probably) series with Moffat writing. We could have Sylvester McCoy back even. This is a perfect story mechanic in order to let any living Doctor return to the role whenever they want, as was suggested by Tom Bakers appearance as the Curator in the 50th. This is a gift to the fans, basically live action big finish, and I cannot wait to see what they come up with. As for 15, I don't think this will undermine him at all. I can't imagine they'd air these spinoff specials side by side with the new series, these will be gap fillers most likely. Moreover Ncuti is such a powerful and incredible actor, I think he will quickly become an iconic doctor in his own right
I definitely feel more split on this episode than previous ones, but I think I do lean ultimately positive. Firstly I want to shout out the horror elements with the puppets - they were so creepy! (seeing them up close in Unleashed did not help lol) With regards to bigeneration and 14's ending I am ultimately really positive on it. Normally whenever the doctor gets together there's always the sniping with each other, but to see 15 be so tender and loving to 14 seemed so sweet? I like the idea of getting to a place of healing that you can look back on your past with such kindness. The implication that 14 is going to do this healing and that's why 15 can be that compassionate sits well with me. I thought Ncuti's introduction was fab, and I'm so excited to see 15's first solo outing at Christmas Final sidenote - Sarah Jane and Rose mentions broke me, and the SJ reference in particular was nice cause this episode gave me strong Day of The Clown vibes from Sarah Jane Adventures (mostly from NPH but still). If we do get the UNIT spinoff, I just hope some of the Sarah Jane kids come back for a bit.
In the commentary track from RTD on the episode, he explained the purpose of the bigeneration, and it's fucking wild: according to RTD, the bigeneration was caused by the Toymaker interfering in the Doctor's life, and it is retroactive and has happened to every single Doctor back to the first. So there is now a version of each Doctor that didn't regenerate who split off from the next Doctor, and they're still out there in the universe. The older Doctors that appear in the Tales from the TARDIS shorts on the iPlayer Whoniverse? Those are all canonical versions of the Doctor now. RTD says he did it so they can have each actor back on the show as their respective Doctor without having to explain why they're so much older now. None of this is explained on screen, of course. But there it is. And if you think really hard about it, it means there are now a LOT of David Tennant Doctors out there. The 14th Doctor being called the "10th Doctor" in the subtitles is an issue in the credits, too. If you watch the show on Disney+ and stick around to see the cast list for the foreign language dubs, every single foreign language credit refers to the David Tennant dub actor as a variation of the 10th Doctor (like in one language, he's listed as Doktor 10). I don't know why they did this. As easy as it might have seemed, the way they took out the Toymaker was more substantial than how the 1st Doctor beat him back in the 60s -- by just throwing his voice and leaving the Toymaker looking shocked as his world explodes.
As someone who hasn't watch DW for a good 8 years, I came back to the series because I feel like my life is settling down and back together... and I am healing. So - I can live with 14 living with Donna and recovering. Gives 15 a chance to MOVE on and go out there with new found acceptance of his past and moving forward
Honestly I think I would feel a lot better about the split Doctor if they didn't split the tardis. No only would having The Doctor leave the TARDIS would not only feel like The Doctor is making a substantial sacrafice in order to acieve his happy ending and would feel like a natural end to his arc if he can leave the TARDIS behind for the next generation. But it would also give us a reason why The Doctor can't just have more adventures in time and space whenever he wants, like you can still do stuff with the earth bound doctor like with the 3rd Doctor's UNIT era or him becoming the curator.
I was fine with this ep. We have a doctor that gets to retire instead of dying. Maybe come back for the occasional special with Donna so we can get a few more of these special eps. That feels nice. New Doctor flies off to his christmas special in a few weeks to shine solo, and then his solo main series. Actually new doctors almost never get the focus in thier first appearance anyway since they show up as a surprise/tease at the end. Him showing up in the middle of an ep this time is unusual. New Doctors get their focus in their second appearance/ep typically(exception being the movie doctor or war doctor) so this was more traditional then not, and I don't think 15 was shortchanged at all since these specials were very much the 14th's.(In hindsight that's why 15's Tardis has a jukebox so if we see 14 again we can tell the sets apart, lol)
I feel the same way about Ncuti Gatwa being a bit short-changed. I have to keep reminding myself that most Doctors only get a few seconds of screen time before the end of the regeneration episode. The actor doesn't really get to establish themselves as being "The Doctor" in our minds until their first full episode, or their first special. I guess we just have to hope that when he gets a Christmas Special on his own, that's when he'll get to shine and really carve out a feeling that he really _is_ the Doctor, and that he's the "real" Doctor as much as Tenant is
I was reading comments and someone pointed out how its possible 14 will merge with 15 at the end of his storyline. And I was like "Like 14 will probably just merge with The Doctor" and I had to stop and smile because, yeah Ncuti is The Doctor, 14 is a version of the Doctor but The Doctor is Ncuti now, and I like that. I like that mind has already put "The Doctor" to that face, that personality. I LOVE that doctor already, he seems so much fun.
I have my issues with the bi-generation and am still doubtful this version of Tennant was an actual regeneration, but if we are finally able to dump the angst and let the Doctor just be the Doctor and have fun, I'll cut RTD some slack. And how nice is it that they not only brought Mel back, but gave her story a resolution.
This can explain the curator....the 11th Doctor did say he could retire and end up being a curator....and of course Tom Baker was there saying in the future you could revisit some old loved faces. Wonderful tie in to the end of the 50th anniversary special.
Loved this episode, especially NPH. The Toymaker was genuinely super menacing. The Toymaker showing up at UNIT was one of the most fun yet menacing scenes I've seen a Doctor Who episode, up there with the Simm's Master cackling madly to music while the Toclafane emerge. It gives him this sense of *incredible* power where you can feel that, even if he just let the bullets fly, they couldn't even come close to actually hurting him. He's not even a god, he's so much more powerful than that and you can feel it.
I understand your worry about Ncuti getting overshadowed, but honestly, I feel like the first story of a doctor is something Im never a huge fan of due to how theres alot of doctor acting weird due to regeneration energy, and the trailer for the the christmas episode looks real fun and is gonna give us a real focus on this new doctor with his new companion
I think with the gold tooth moment at the end that was the master leaving it given the toy maker was banished possible foreshadowing a new Missy with the nail polish , maybe Jynx Monsoon?
I love that it connected to the tales of the Tardis series, that supposedly all the doctors we saw there are the split versions, as all doctors have now split because of the Toy maker.
SPOILERS: I definitely agree about the episode feeling rushed and I didn't like the bigeneration at all- but that's probably just me being a stick in the mud and not liking change. I love Ncuti though and cannot wait to see more of him!
I had heard that Davies introduced Bigeneration so that future guest appearances of the Doctor (like for Anniversaries) will now have a built in reason as to why the older Doctor is, ya know, older. It's now going to be a Multiverse Bigeneration rather than "The TARDIS had to compensate for temporal distortion" or some such. That being said, it felt to me during the episode that were also leaning on Bigeneration to sell the public on Ncuti's Doctor.
This sincerely might just be one of my favourite episodes of the show, period. I’ll have to give it some time before entirely committing to that, but I can at least say that Neil Patrick Harris’s Celestial Toymaker most certainly is a new favourite. He captures everything you want in a Who villain; campy, menacing and ultimately just an absolute riot to watch! That dance sequence was just magnificently silly! And as for the story itself, I gotta say that twist at the end (I’ll try and stay spoiler-light, but maybe wait to read this next bit if you haven’t seen it), is actually something that really worked for me; despite the controversy in the fandom it’ll no doubt cause. It’s an anniversary, after all, so wrapping everything up in a nice little bow is honestly just a perfect send-off to me; I mean, as the characters literally pointed out, David Tennant’s Doctor has earned his swan-song! And Ncuti Gatwa… I already know I’m going to love his Doctor. We’ve never really had a Doctor (minus Christopher Eccleston’s 9 I suppose, due to his off-screen regeneration) introduced with such a definitive sense of who they are. And man do I like it. Comforting, vibrant and ultimately radiating fun: yeah, this guy’s gonna be good! So yeah, safe to say I loved it. As a whole, the 60th anniversary itself was not what I expected but, despite going into this episode with uncertainty on whether it could stick the landing, it gives me an innumerable amount of joy when I say that this gave me everything I wanted and more. Doctor Who is never going to be objectively perfect, but this is pretty damn perfect to me. Now, let’s bring on Christmas!!!!
14:10 the recent Shin Kamen Rider movie had a good response to the whole “humans are inherently bad” argument that I found surprisingly positive and though-provoking. “Humans are the only species that can end conflict WITHOUT violence” putting aside if that is 100% accurate, the idea that our ability to forgive, be kind, and seek peace is what makes us human as opposed to greed, cruelty or whatever was a very poignant statement.
I love David Tennant's doctor, and i really thought he was finally saying goodbye once and for all, but him staying really takes away the significance of him coming back (for me at least). i feel like one part of the fandom is gonna be focusing on 14 and wanting him on a spinoff or whatever bc hes everyone fave doctor, and as you said, i feel like all of this takes away our focus to Ncuti's doctor. I wish they could just let go of Tennant's doctor.
look, to give the doctor a GOOOD ending, si something i wished for a long time, his story might not be over, but its not tennants doctor anymore. i like this ending, him caring for his past companions, possibly returning in 5 to 10 years for a reuniion? but npw, he is a doctor with a LOT on his plate, he needs to rest, his time is done.
I couldn't agree more. You said it far better than I could. I don't hate David Tennant, he was a good doctor but his time has come and gone, it's time to leave the stage and let the new doctor have their time to shine
I'm a bit disappointed that they pulled shenanigans with the bigeneration now to give *another* Tennant Doctor a chance to settle down, instead of doing so to let Thirteen and Yaz be together. As you said, there's already an extra Ten that got to live with Rose in a parallel reality due to messing around with regeneration. Did they really need to do it again?
I agree about Tennant not needing another settle down episode but I think anything that puts more 13th Doctor in the audiences face at the moment would be a bad idea?
I actually like this change a lot. Mostly with 15 telling 14 that 15 was fine, because 14 would be fine. They were doing therapy out of order. So I think this is to say that 14 and 15 are somehow still linked, because 14s development still benefits 15. They are not now two separate doctors, but a doctor occupying 2 locations in space time at the same time.
The last part of the episode, from regeneration and on, was very touching and heartfelt, I really liked it. I think it's so good that show addressed the weight and psychological impact of the constant moving from big event to big event, from loss to loss, and highlighted how important it is to stop and acknowledge and work through the trauma.
I thought they adequately explained the bi-generation. They had established that the toymaker can turn bullets into flowers and science is a mere plaything in their presence, so the bi-generation is a consequence of playing a game with the toymaker. The tardis duplication with a hammer at the end also reinforces this view.
I kinda am on board with this too. I can see it as the toymaker making the game "even" by hijacking the Doctor's life. That last catch seemed too much of an easy miss for a character that literally lives to play games.
I feel like the moffat era doctors not taking time to grive for there companion is a recon, smith settles down to grive for the ponds in the snowman and smith and capaldi settle down for long periods of time in time of the doctor and series 10
I like to think that The Curator (Tom Baker) from Day of the Doctor is a further down the line regeneration of 14th Doctor after he split and went on his own way.
Same and I personally like to think the Curator in that context comes back to allow the 4th to regenerate in logopolis (my head cannon) And maybe even valeyard gets explained one day if he gets reintroduced as a recurring villain
Firstly Well done on getting these up so fast. Thank GOD the horror stories of all characters being killed off are false. NPH acted his arse off. Ncuti from the moment he appeared gave that vibe sadly I never felt from JW, For those outside the UK When Kate removed the arm band and went into that rage it covered the UK as it stands. RTD is back and wow the Defund the BBC crowd are not happy, Thank god disabled hate finally mentioned "I saw you walking" If I had a pound for every time I've been told that no they saw someone pick me up and put me in a chair. A Sci-fi show has actually done more to convey the shambles of the UK than News networks. As for the episode itself Acting sublime, Donna vs the dolls I was worried for a moment then she did a Brenda from Scary movie and its the first time I've laughed this year. So Wild theory time here We know Disney has pumped £££££££££ into the show this leaves the door wide open for CT and a UNIT spin off. Or dare I say a DT/CT set of Disney+ films ? When the TV show is off air, A bit like Star trek, People say two doctors there's actually 3. The one with Rose. The acting was amazing was the story insane? 100% but I loved it.
My theory is a UNIT spin-off with Tennant and Tate doing guest appearances. It keeps them in the Whoniverse as much as they want to be and gives the UNIT spin-off access to a Doctor without having to find a way to schedule Ncuti to do guest appearances.
I hope so, I saw one terrible rumour Kate was going to die thank goodness that was just BS, Also really glad they changed the regeneration from being total carnage of everything around to something totally different, Said before some creators are not even subtle they make content basically they hate it even before the episode airs. The PM on the podium is #partygate its almost the same room and the arrogance, This is what I always loved about RTD he uses his stories to reach the younger people and connects with them. I really hope we get a UNIT show that place is amazing@@T320SNU
Coming in November 2033, the 70th Anniversary special presentation, The Five Tenth Doctors. Starring David Tennant as the Tenth Doctor, David Tennant as the 10.5 Doctor, David Tennant as the Metacrisis Doctor, David Tennant as the Fourteenth Doctor, David Tennant as the Curator and introducing David Tennant as the Valeyard.
The thing about 14 overshadowing 15 is that that was going to happen anyway. If they did a traditional regeneration, it would have been at the very end, and we’d have 5 seconds of Ncuti before he sauntered off into the TARDIS and left. And, this is DAVID TENNENT’s special, not Ncuti’s, why shouldn’t he get to shine the brightest. What the Bi-generation did was 1) insert a bit of a multi-doctor story, which is always a joy! 2) Create and actual passing-of-the-torch moment, which Doctor Who was never actually been able to properly do oddly enough. 3) Allowed Ncuti more screen time to get to establish the general gist of this Doctor before the Christmas special!
My understanding is that 15 has lived through all of 14's time with Donna, that this is more timey wimey than really anything, and that eventually 14 will regenerate into nothing.
I actually really enjoyed the Bi-Generation change. Mainly because it gave us some time to get used to the new Doctor. The shock of a quick regeneration and then cut to credits (like it's always been) has ALWAYS been jarring. Usually the new Doctor coming in only gets mere seconds on screen before the episode ends. So the new setup of getting BOTH Doctors on screen and getting an emotional heartwarming "passing the torch" moments was actually a lovely change to me. Personally, i loved it. And now that I got the new Doctor in a few scenes already and got to glimpse his personality... I'm actually SUPER excited for his Era now! He seems genuinely interesting and a fun new take on the Doctor role
Having rewatched it, one big thought I have about this episode is that it was a quick runthrough of (almost) every major moment/trope from RTD's original run: - Regeneration-related mishaps create multiple Doctors to resolve crisis & a David Tennant Doctor retires to live with the companion - pretty on-the-nose social & political commentary - Doctor is haunted by past trauma/survivor's guilt - future villain/plot is teased with obligue reference or meme phrase - villain plays a 'long game' to manipulate human race - villain plays 90s/2000s pop song & dances to it to taunt Doctor&co - classic era companion returns as cast member of (potential) spin-off - said spin-off cast calls in the Doctor to help with global threat - Master return is teased via item containing Master's essence being picked up by hand with red nails Overall, I am conflicted about The Giggle; I like many parts of it (esp. NPH, despite him butchering my native German 😅), but I found the conclusion underwhelming and a lot of the writing emphasizing emotional resonance over actual story logic (a similar problem I have with RTD's first era): 10's face coming back & him (nearly) immediately running into Donna ("destiny is coming for Donna Noble"), the bi-generation happening (and the lack of a proper explanation or exploration of what it means), "the giggle" infecting technologies that have nothing to do with TV (and why that is even something the Toymaker does), etc.
I'm conflicted on the split, I love both of them and I can't wait for the new series but it almost feels like they were afraid to fully commit to the Doctor being black so they had to make sure certain fans could still have the "true" Doctor around.
Also, can I just point out, if The Doctor went through so much he had to split off a new one so that he could chill for a bit and really deal with it, it's like a retcon without a retcon, wtf Russel, this is like a 12D Chess move in some whacky way.
I really would be fine if we just have 14 out there - with Donna and their family. I read that - giving them that happy ending - as more the intention than setting up some spin off to undermine Ncuti. I guess we’ll see but if I’m right I think it was a good choice. They aren’t gonna top 10’s goodbye and I did kind of see something like this coming because it seemed weird to bring him back just to go away again after 3hours of specials.
I think, the reasons the bi regeneration was even possible is because if the toy makers strange reality bending nature being applied to the doctor so basically wibbly wobbly stuff
It's not often I disgree with your take on the show, but Ncuti Gatwa gets literally more air time after a regeneration in an episode than any other Doctor & those majestic thighs stole the scene every second they were on screen. I actually felt that Fifteen outshone Fourteen throughout those scenes. He wasn't worn out, washed out & in need of a rest. He was brand new, shiny & exciting & part of that was because the rest that Fourteen is going to have will eventually impact Fifteen (I think - it's a bit wibbly wobbly timey wimey). My only real criticism is that the Toymaker was destroyed by literally dropping the ball. But then, games are like that. Over quickly. But the tooth is...truth is...the games aren't completely over yet ;) someone is coming back & I can't wait to find out who they'll become!
My friends and I all agreed back in the day that the doctor-worship started with 10 and concluded that RTD was using Rose as his stand-in for being infatuated with Tennant. I have loved the 2nd and 3rd specials this year, but they have certainly reinforced my opinion that RTD has a (entirely understandable!) Tennant fixation.
I overall loved the episode, but I am torn on the bigeneration. Part of oe says "give Tenant a happy ending", but there are issues. I do think this will divide the fanbase. And now any disaster on Earth will have the MCU effect of "where was 14?" At the same time, Ncuti did really good with his time and I can't wait to see what he does
On the surface, breaking the rules of regeneration from Time of the Doctor allowed me to accept the bi-regeneration where both incarnations of the Doctor can continue to exist, but on an emotional story arc level, we get to see the passing of the torch of older and newer Doctor that we don't get since the post-regeneration the Doctor tends to need to get their bearings in order and often have crises of defining themself. This mutual respect between David and Ncuti was great to see, plus we get a multi-Doctor episode in the process. If we want to see it as parts of the same personality, a healthy acknowledgement of the past and what the future will bring as part of the Doctor's life story was lovely (almost akin to the Steven Universe finale of gem Steven and human Steven accepting each other, hence a self-love not often seen or expressed in MC in general).
POTENTIAL REASON FOR BIGENERATION - it sounds like the toymaker made it happen on purpose to toy with the doctor. He talks about having endless doctors to kill and play with. I think Rtd's intent was to suggest this was the toymakers doing, not just a random thing that happened for no particular in universe reason
The story kinda hit personally for me cause Im currently in a period where I have taken a rest and slowed things down a little, I love how the original concept of regeneration is this metaphor for renewal (beautiful put by Peter Capaldi), and this now opens up a whole lot of other themes
Same! Currently dealing with trying to take rest before I fall head-first into a burnout (though I might already be there) and I definitely cried during this episode. The idea of a possible future you, who has healed, who knows you better than anyone else does, stepping in to gently tell you it'll be ok and that you need to rest in order to become that healed person? Oof. And the 'this is what it was all for' bit, where fourteen finds reprieve from everything just constantly happening all the time by finding this little moment of joy with his chosen family? Got me right in the heart. And I feel that it works so well that he bi-generates because it's almost like his future self stepping in to make sure he doesn't end then and there, but gets to grow and heal.
The problem I have with the regeneration is that it broke so many traditions...not just one. Generally the new Doctor takes a while to figure out who they are and get their bearings. This time the new Doctor pops up and seems to be totally aware and ready to go. Also the lack of regeneration energy seemed off. My thought is that you can get away with breaking one aspect of cannon if done well, but it is a lot harder to break several all in one go. Also, there should only be one Doctor...not 2. Kind of diminishes both
There apears to be some wibbly wobbly stuff going on, since 15 says he's healthy because 14 stays gets healthy. When 14 is finaly ready to regenerate his energy may go back in time into his former self enableing the bigeneration.
I know I already commented, but this just occurred to me. I did find it interesting that when he doubled the TARDIS, he chose to apologize to the original and then chose the new one for his own. In a way, it felt like him letting his oldest friend have a rest as well, while at the same time, not making it necessary for these two oldest friends have to separate. I am also curious to see if this new Tennant Doctor will eventually regenerate (which some people are speculating, but I simply don't read enough DW news, possibly, to have nailed this down. if anyone knows, please let me know), or if he's become something like the Metacrisis Doctor where he now just has one life left to live, and all of the regenerations will only be with the 15th and whomever comes after him.
I like that with Shirley they're actually having the conversation about ambulatory wheelchair users. I noticed in the first special that she crossed her legs which I thought might have been a mistake if it was a one and done character but I like that they are not only pushing positive disabled representation but also educating the public on a widely misunderstood topic. I don't usually use a wheelchair myself but I have definitely been on the receiving end of rants similar to Kate's when she was under the influence of the giggle about "faking" my disability so I like that that was called out as an ignorant and shitty thing to do.
Amen, plus people who are disabled but are ambulatory, OMG, even with a handicap car sign people judge you are not suffering from a disability that limits actions.
I'm not a big fan of dr. who, really don't know much about the series or the lore really. But I am a big fan of Ncuti Gatwa as an actor. He was great in sex education, and if you pretend Otis doesn't exist -and why wouldn't you- he is basically the main character XD
Soooo many feelings. Will take a minute sort out I think... Some, in no particular order: 1. Love that Ncuti didn't immediately blow up the tardis (thank you RTD, that trope is getting so old). 2. All the "binary" focus in the first two episodes makes more sense. 3. There are now two tardises (tardisi?). Making the fugitive doctor possible now. 4. Love NPH 5. Love that Wilf was still there. 6. I'm happy for Tennants's doctor to be there sparingly, but hopefully, he will not be a focus. I'm looking forward to Ncuti's take on the doctor. 7. The stories have felt small(? Not quite the right word). But that is something that I liked about RTDxs run. The doctor wasn't a God. Far from all just the first that came to mind right now😂 Am optimistic and looking forward to seeing where they go from here
Idk im not super offended by the lack of focus on ncudi cause like, the alternative would have been what? David regenerates at the end of the episode and he gets his 1 or 2 minutes of “oh who am I?” Like every other regeneration? Idk, that wouldn’t have given him much more than this did
My overall feelings are a bit conflicted. On the one hand I really enjoyed the episode (15 ist giving great vibes, the Toymaker was a big W, etc.). On the other hand I don't think that it was a great anniversary. At least I didn't get the same celebratory feeling for it, as I had with the 50th.
I thought it wasn't clear what the set up was but I realized the notation happened now partially because the toymakers reveal and involvement with the edge of the universe but also invoking superstition at the edge of the universe messing with the laws and allowing for a "myth" like bigeneration to occur. It also has a lot of interesting setup for more clarification and elaboration on the implications of the flux and the doctor's origins and setup for tying all of this together
The Giggle was perfect. This was truly the first of these specials that felt like a celebration of 60 years of Doctor Who. I loved the framing device of John Logie Baird and the invention of television. Really reminded me of that episode from series 2 about Queen Elizabeth II’s coronation. It had all these great callbacks and mentions to so many characters, most if not all of whom are no longer accessible to the Doctor like Amy and Rose Tyler. Is it wishful thinking to hope that no mention of Martha means Freema Agyeman will pop up again soon? Neil Patrick Harris was fantastic! I loved the switching of accents. Evil camp is always fun, especially when it’s as sinister as this was. And the “Spice Up Your Life” dance sequence. I still have no idea what the hell bi-generation means. I mean we heard from all the Doctors previously in the reboot that regeneration was super dodgy but making a whole new one is not a twist I was expecting! But this establishes that in a one-on-one-hundred-million-billion-billion chance, Time Lords can reproduce asexually. However how many times can the Doctor make a copy of themselves? The end fight with the Toymaker had the frenetic pace of Ten's fight with the Sycorax way back in 2006. I loved Ncuti’s energy. He really felt like a showman, much more than the other Doctors previously. And because they said he processed his trauma, Fifteen seems like he’s going to be a Doctor who is having fun and not haunted by his dark deeds or running from something. Which is a Doctor RTD never gave himself the chance to write. And it looks like we have another RTD mystery box on our hand with The Meep’s boss still left unanswered and now the Toymaker’s “The One Who Waits.” Let’s face it, it’s probably The Meep’s boss. . love that Fourteen’s costume got split between the two so Fifteen spends the entire episode in underwear! But because he got the shows, not only does Fourteen speed the entire 3rd act barefoot and commando, which is hilarious in and of itself, Fifteen feels even more naked. Donna’s “Do you come in a range of colors” is perfect because it addresses Ncuti’s blackness without making it a big deal. _Because It’s not!_ I love that they let Ncuti keep his true accent. I love that we didn’t have to say goodbye to Tennant again. Not really. That scene of him having lunch with Donna's family, really his family, was just perfect and I'm happy that his last words are technically "This is the happiest I've ever been in my life." You can really hear Tennant’s Scottish accent on “wheelchair accessible.” It really feels like they are setting up a UNIT spin-off. And I am here for it! I need it to be Kate, Shirley, Mel, and the Vlinx, whatever the hell that is, and maybe Osgood (fingers crossed).
Both Donna’s original wedding, where she first met the Doctor, and her actual husband happen to be black - not saying she has a “thing” but she is definitely at ease with mixed race relationships. And now she has a UNIT income and I don’t see them as likely to sack Doctor’s Companions on their staff as they bring vastly more interstellar and timeframe independent knowledge to its work. If only they had a Sonic Screwdriver…
I like the theory that Tennant is now the first iteration of the Curator, and 14 was always intended to be the Curator, because it explains why the Doctor regenerated backwards into his face. He was 'revisiting old faces'.
For me, the moment when the doctor vocally and verbally told himself that he cares for himself was incredibly, incredibly powerful.
That future self reassuring their past self that they are there and they are all right, I was very moved by that as well!
No shit. I need to figure that out for myself.
For me that was incredibly dumb because he's not a future version of the Doctor, he's a Present version of him, both are the same "Age", The Doctor doesn't become a completely different person when he Regens so it's very stupid that the "Bi-Regeneration" version of him acts like a completely different version...
@@xLionsxxSmithyx The Doctor is always The Doctor, even The War Doctor. But each incarnation of The Doctor has a distinct personality. Yes, Fifteen and Fourteen are exactly the same age, and they're each The Doctor. But only Ncuti's Doctor could give David's Doctor the thing they both have the most need of - comfort for all The Doctor's losses, from someone Who knows exactly what those losses are and how deeply the pain cuts.
I agree -- I did love the way bifurcation worked on this level. The new doctor is rejuvinated: freed of the weight of his past.
I was personnally really touched to see Gatwa's Doctor as a more stable incarnation hugging the 14th Doctor like how you think you'd do with your past self, like "It's gonna ok".
I felt it was implied that Ncuti was a future incarnation that somewhat regenerated right now instead of the future, because he was saying "we're timelords, we do rehab out of order" and "I'm good because you fix yourself", it's like "the future is now"
Non-linear regeneration! I think that fourteen will die and "merge" with ncuti at the end of his story.
That's a phenomenal message.
@desknerd Either that or he’ll fade away TARDIS style to sync up with 15. I think 15 being from the doctor’s near future and pulled into his present is accurate based on one line 14 has when 15 tells him to help push them apart. “Does this work?” Not “WILL this work?” “DOES this work?” Implying 14 expects 15 to have future knowledge he currently doesn’t have. Granted 15 saying he doesn’t know if the pushing will work throws that for a loop, but temporal memory loss when doctors interact is an easy excuse.
In some ways I worry that it glosses over what real recovery looks like though. Because recovery isn’t necessarily easy. And just suddenly being fixed isn’t really a thing. I think some of that is why David tennant and Christopher Eccleston were so special. They had so much character that was felt from the doctors past. I hope Ncuti Gatwa isn’t written out of having his past effect him to whatever level
@@lukep7885 Yeah, on one hand I get that we've had a broody morning sad boi war doctor for maybe a bit too long, but I was excited to see some of the Doctor's process for learning to let go and love himself. I hope we're not just fully into the good times era and that Ncuti still has some soul searching to do regarding everything he's been through during his Doctor run.
I saw this the first time and I thought, well, 14 is the doctor who gets to have therapy and 15 is the one who finished therapy and goes on to new adventures. There is no real and fake doctor, but just THE Doctor. Every Doctor is the Doctor. There is no one more of a doctor than the "other" ones.
I think Ncuti Gatwa's Doctor is going to be incredible. The scene where he was comforting the fourteenth Doctor was a very strong start for him.
The Doctors have always had issues around the people they love, mostly their companions but there have been others, including Wilf, River Song, and even The Master. All too often The Doctor has been on the "losing" side: so many of their loved ones have been ripped from them. When The Doctor married River he already knew how she would die. Ten was able to save Wilf, but lost that incarnation of himself in doing so, and he wasn't ready to go. Twelve lost both Clara and Bill, and wasn't even allowed to properly grieve Clara. Thirteen gave up the dream of having a life with Yasmin.
I'm 70. I'm old. And that isn't just two ways to say the same thing. Mentally I'm still strong. I'm dealing with my medical issues, and doing well. The thing that makes me feel old is that my list of people I love who are dead is now longer than my list of living loved ones.
The Doctor is much older than I am, and I'm not talking about years. But Ncuti's Doctor feels young to me. He remembers all those losses vividly, he feels the pain, and he has compassion for all of his former selves, the ones who never got a chance to finish grieving their losses before they themselves had to move on. And Ncuti's Doctor has had an unheard of opportunity, the chance to hold one of his former selves in his arms and comfort him. It feels to me like that act of compassion has worked to heal himself. Ncuti's Doctor is emotionally healthy in a way that The Doctor has not been for a very long time. And that means that he has more to give wherever he may be called. Ncuti's Doctor is one of the very few physicians who actually have healed themselves. And that is awesome.
That's a beautiful way to think of it. Thank you.
All of this is exactly how I feel. I'm not as old as you, but I've lost a lot of friends along the way, and that incredible self-compassion from Ncuti's Doctor to David's brought me to tears.
Gatwa was fantastic from his first second on screen--he showed the manic energy, the weirdness and compassion of being the Doctor within just a few minutes. I have good feelings about this guy.
@@nancyjay790 You're welcome.
@@Tolly7249 🫂
I did love that Shirley Anne Bingham got targeted for standing up by Kate when she got Giggled, considering the fuss that real world gigglers made when she crossed her legs in the first special. Makes RTD almost prescient, also loved the Flash Gordon reference with the tooth.
Now I just want to refer to the jerkish DW fans as “gigglers.” Thanks for the idea!
Use the power wisely my friend, RTD gave us this gift, not me 😁
Also I don't really think that Gatwa got the short shrift in this special. Regeneration episodes are ALWAYS about the actor saying goodbye. If they are lucky the new actor MAY get a line before the end. Ncuti got some really good scenes in this ep.
I mean he got YOINKED out of David Tennant, how could an entrance get any better?
It's not about him not getting enough time in this episode. It's about him not getting his fresh start that other Doctors got. Tennant is still around so that gave a lot of people an excuse to claim he's the real Doctor and Gatwa is just another one. Regeneration is about saying goodbye to the old and hello to the new. This time that didn't happen. Tennant is still there so RTD and BBC can bring him back if ratings drop. It is a bit disrespectful to Gatwa to have his introduction be this way and it feels especially bad when he's the first black first openly gay Doctor
Gotta say, I loved Donna negotiating for a higher salary. She knows what she's worth.
Definitely the sign of someone who has been at the business game for more than a minute.
I like the “order and chaos aren’t the only things in the universe, there’s also play”, it’s a really cool way to think about and write characters: the Master is a chaotic villain, the cybermen & daleks are very ordered villains, while having a completely different kind of villain in the toymaker (and let’s face it, the Doctor is a playful hero) is a really cool angle.
I didn't think of it before, but reading your comment reminded me that in Ursula K. Le Guin's _Always Coming Home_ there's a whole section about different models or metaphors for how the universe is: order, chaos, war, a road, etc. The one settled on by the future society depicted in the novel isn't play, but it's a related concept: a dance.
@@thatotherted3555 Oooh, I just started re-reading _Always Coming Home!_ Looking forward to reading that part now.
I love the bigeneration as a trauma response. Like he is carrying so much he needs to hug himself and leave part of him behind to heal in a way only living one day at a time can. But he should have left the TARDIS behind, Rose could have offered him her shed instead. This should be the end for him unless there is a future reintegration where his healed self is absorbed into the current Doctor
Honestly, as someone with PTSD, I would love it for thematic reasons if they did eventually do a "reintegration" as the conclusion of the 15th Doctor's arc. Like, part of it feels like 15 is leaving that trauma behind... without fully acknowledging that it happened.
Like, he's leaving the physical PERSONIFICATION of that baggage behind, so he can operate without thinking about it... but I would love it if he were to "revisit" that baggage and reintegrate with it. But what's changed is that he's not reintegrating with the same 14, he's reintegrating with a 14 who's rested and healed from that trauma. So said reintegration could represent him having "moved on/healed" from that trauma, but still being okay with acknowledging the fact it happened (rather than ignoring it completely).
I really like both of your comments. I was left thinking "wait, but if they're splitting, doesn't Ncuti's Doctor *also* need some recovery? He still went through all of that stuff, and he's still churning forwards into more adventures like he just called out Tennant's for. It hadn't really occurred to me until reading these that this might be an almost DID-like split, where he's splitting off versions of himself able to deal with some of that trauma. (I mean, not exactly like DID but still.) I do also agree, though, with @Lady-Y that if they want to go that road, there does need to be some sort of continuation or conclusion of it - it shouldn't just be "we split, now everything's fine". Either way, we'll see where it goes.
Yes! Reminds me of my favorite scene in Once Upon A Time, when Regina gives her "evil" self a hug.
I actually like the bi-gen a lot. Yes it has the things about keeping Tennant around, possible spinoffs, etc, we'll see how they deal with that. But what it also does is, to allow Ncuti and the 15th doctor, to be less burdened by the doctor's history both in character and on a meta level.
In character we have 14 being able to settle down, while 15 can REALLY move on. In those few moments already, having 15 hug 14, seing a different mindset already.
On a meta level, we can have 14 be the one who keeps the ideas of the flux, timless child, etc (as they did well in these episodes) and 15 go on his own new adventures, have new companions, a new character arc, moving on from all the controversy of 13's writing.
This is what I also really loved about the bi- gen, all the Doctors of nu Who have been burdened by loss, and it's kind of been piling on and I've enjoyed that journey, but the energy that Ncuti Gatwa comes with is so vibrant and joyous and I'm excited for that energy in the upcoming adventures!
The bi-gen worked really well for the story. But Tennant's doctor didn't actually regenerate, he just spawned a Ncuti. Or did he regenerate into the same face again?
@@dogblessamerica It had to be a regeneration of some kind, otherwise he would have died from his injuries
It’s the meta way for RTD to split ‘Nu-Who’ from ‘Whoniverse’ Who, as they’re literally calling the next series ‘Series 1’ and classing it as a soft reboot.
It almost feels like a separate personality so one can rest whilst the other saves the universe and was the reason for David returning.
The bit with all the doors in the Toymaker's shop felt oddly like a retread of last week's episode - the Doctor and Donna getting separated in creepy corridors, then each having a horrific body-horror scare scene before being reunited.
On the other hand, Donna's "I'm already running!" was a classic moment.
I can kinda see the toymaker hallway scene as a set-up for the idea that (at least) one of the bigenerations *is* (at least a little bit) the toymaker. We saw the Doctor getting separated from Donna, and we saw that the toymaker can make passable replications of people. What if the toymaker hid a little of himself in the Doctor (either in the hallway or in the energy of the laser weapon), in pursuit of that "fair play" doctrine, which then got expressed in the bigeneration? One of those doctors was really quick to get that (definitely toymaker tech) mallet, after all...
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I think I'd feel more conflicted about how they handled Ncuti's introduction if the wait before his first full episode was going to be months, as it has been in the past, instead of the two weeks its going to be. I think they saw this as their one opportunity to do a little bit more than give the new Doctor a chance to say a few words and fly off in (or more often crash) the TARDIS, knowing that even if he got overshadowed here Ncuti is getting the big Christmas Special to really shine. Plus seeing a new incarnation of The Doctor interact with the previous one immediately after regeneration is kinda cool. I just hope 15's line "The only reason I'm fine is because you fix yourself." means what I think it does and there's some link between them that makes 14's existence finite.
I also hope the tooth with The Master in it means we're going to get to see how Michelle Gomez's incarnation became Sacha Dhawan's.
We got more than, "Kidneys!"
When I saw those red nails, I immediately thought of her!
I agree, Ncuti Gatwa is going to shine lots starting with the Christmas Special and the ensuing season. I highly doubt he'll be overshadowed to any extent.
I don't get a sense that Ncuti is going to be overshadowed. Going by his performance, I ... don't think that's possible. Extraordinary episode, totally threw me for a loop, in such a good way. It kind of feels like the show has unlocked a new level.
Right???
I mean, yes, I love Tennant. But the energy Gatwa brought to this? Feels like the rare occasion where someone steps into a previous master's shoes, and instead of them being too big, they BURST them! 🤭
It was _mesmerizing_ watching the both of them interact on the screen, he was every bit Tennant's equal and he'd barely been on five minutes! 😳🤯
If anything, his presence felt like it overpowered Tennant somehow. This coming from someone who's doctor IS 10.
Yeah this. Gives me a lot of Eccleston but even more playful (new tardis really fits that vibe, I think), and I love it. I could see his potential for this, in the sex ed scene where he goes from talking to his dad to confronting Adam, and he's clearly grown perfectly into it. And really this was more like the hmm "Doctor shows up right at the end of the ep" pattern, I'm sure we'll have a "getting familiar" solo ep before coming back for Rose.
My real concern is just uh. Basically holding onto Tennant in the wings, in case of too much backlash... Even though it was a lovely "retirement" of sorts and all that that felt good.
NPH did a perfectly good job, but frankly brought nothing someone else couldn't do to the role, it was mostly just him doing his campy schtick. Between Barney and some... what feels like a tendency towards subtle misogyny, kinda getting tired of him.
I really hope they continue with the Davies era focus on attempting connection first. The other showrunners didn't ditch that of course, but there was usually more focus on "there's some kind of enemy, figure out what it is, AHA!!"
If you think about how every other Doctor has arrived, Ncuti ended up with a slam bang start. We certainly haven't seen a new Doctor with 15 minutes left in the episode. We already have the Doctor's personality figured out two weeks before Christmas. There is no "Who am I?" needed.
Yeah. I'd never seen Ncuti in anything so I really had no idea how he'd do as the Doctor. But he's only had a handful of minutes on screen so far and any doubts are gone. He's just the Doctor.
As a fan of the 6th Doctor, I know pretty well Mel. She had a very strange wibbly wobbly story. She was cheerful, funny, intelligent and got a lot of energy. She care deeply about the Doctor well being and wasn't afraid to tell him when he was wrong or cheer them up. She might not be one the favorite companion of all time, but she did got good stories with BigFinish.
6 is my fave classic Doctor! He and Mel were great because they loved each other and had absolutely zero interest in holding back when they thought the other was being an idiot. It's a genuine loss that Colin had to wait for Big Finish to get to really BE the Doctor.
Yes! And I loved the reference to Glitz. He would die tripping over a whiskey bottle at 101.
Really hate Classic series Mel. Compared to the companions either side of her, she was extremely poorly written (yes, even poorly writtern than 'is hot, will travel' Peri),
I've not heard her much on Big Finish, but I've enjoyed the ones I have heard, and she was really good in this.
I'd forgotten that--because of odd time-travel shenanigans during Trial of a Time Lord, we never see Mel meet the Doctor for the first time and it seems kind of like she popped out of nowhere in a causal loop (I think other media attempted to actually depict how Mel met the Doctor, further in the future from his perspective).
The use of Mel here was many, MANY light-years better than her use in televised Classic Who, FULL STOP!
In televised Classic Who, she was a computer programmer that never got within a mile of a computer and whose sole observed character traits was super-screamy fitness fanatic that made Ol’ Sixie have the last words of “Carrot Juice carrot juice carrot juice” and screamed her way all through the notoriously bad Season 24 before we FINALLY had her replaced with Ace at the end of “Dragonfire”. For me, she’s basically the Classic Who equivalent of “The Runaway Bride”s Donna Noble…not someone you would ever in a billion years think you would ever want to see again…but then, when you ultimately do, she comes off WAY better! 😅😁
Mel Bush in this special felt very much like the Mel Bush we should’ve had DECADES ago…right off the bat, she’s working for UNIT and IS AT A COMPUTER! Immediately I’m like YASSSSS!!!! Someone who has computer programming in their background NEEDS to be at a computer and she shows her intellect quite well in her scenes. Even better…NO SCREAMING! She’s FINALLY being depicted as competent, smart, witty, brave and not one glass of carrot juice in sight! 😁😁😁😁
If this is the Mel Bush we’re going to get in Ncuti Gatwa’s era then I am all for her being back. Mel Bush DESERVES to finally get to shine in televised Who and I really do hope her renewed time on the program continues to be used this effectively so she can finally escape the shadow of her Classic Who appearances…
Here’s to our now-beloved crazy Auntie Mel! 😅😍😁
Thank you for the review! For me, I felt...almost relieved by the bi-regeneration. To me, especially in the few moments we had to take in Ncuti Gatwa's portrayal of the doctor, it really felt like splitting from Tennant was, in a way, letting go of all of the baggage that the doctor has been carrying through all of the series since it came back in 2005. It always felt, before, as if, no matter which doctor you were seeing, from the 9th to the 14th, all of them were burdened by the weight of everything they had lived/experienced before. Triumphs, sometimes, yes, but mostly their failures. It really felt as if all of them, in a way, were consumed by their failures. For Ncuti to say, so easily and honestly, 'You can't save everyone,' to me, really felt like a real shift in how the doctor might approach his existence going forward, and I'm looking forward to seeing how they develop that.
It's the beach full of star fish. Walk along, pick one up, and throw it back in to the ocean. They won't all be saved, but you'll have done the most you can.
15 seemed to really understand that instinctively.
@@fabrisseterbrugghe8567 Absolutely this. He doesn't seem as if he's going to be wracked with guilt like so many of the others.
Love this! Thanks!
Same! I think it was a good decision and allowed a fresher start for The Doctor as a character. Ncuti's Doctor just shined so brightly and warmly throughout the last part of the episode. Can't wait for the Christmas special tbh.
Honestly, I feel like the bigeneration is cushioned for me by the fact Tennant Doctor has a habit of doing unusual regenerations, like the version of himself that left the universe with Rose. It gives me more confidence that the writers really can just leave him here and then maybe they can bring some interesting stories up in the future by seeing where that regeneration stream went (sort of allowing the main Doctor to wriggle free of some of the canon weight of ideas like the Curator, the Valeyard and other future Doctors we've seen). I also feel like, I've already gone through the phase of stacking a Doctor against David Tennant with Matt Smith. For the first few episodes of his run, I found myself auto-replacing him in scenes with 10, to the point that I often misremember them. I think since 14 was around for such a short time, he didn't have the time to stick in the same way he did last time, and I hope that'll help iron out some of the anxiety. While obviously it's different in-universe, I don't think there's as much difference in comparison with Bigeneration and Regeneration. In each case the new Doctor gets stacked up against the others in ways that are often quite unfair. The only exception is the end of this episode itself, where I think Ncuti did a really good job, and I really liked the unique emotionality of letting the Doctor talk to their previous and new selves.
(Also it helps I'm an identical twin so my brain is already buzzing with possible advantages of a story that treats duplication as a positive emotional thing and a valuable relationship [even at a distance] rather than a problem to be solved).
While it initially threw me, I think the energy of the scene helped pull me through most of it and I'm excited for if it'll open any interesting future stories.
Also it let me make an Oprah joke: 'You get a David Tennant. And you get a David Tennant! Oh my God everyone gets David Tennant!"
Everyone gets a Tennant but poor Martha. #JusticeforMartha
@@NicoleM_radiantbaby Poor Martha indeed, since she got stuck with the Tin Dog. Kate should recruit her out of that slap-dash ending.
Someone on reddit commented that by invoking the whole salt thing on the edge of the universe last episode, there will be other wild ripple effects. We had the Toymaker return, Kate said to put the Toymakers box in Salt, and 15 even mentions that Bi-generation is supposed to be a myth. AND our next episode features literal Goblins... I think this is all an intentional consequence.
I also wonder whether the "Mavity" thing is an aspect of this - the Doctor changing things in ways he didn't expect. Also, I thought that was weird, since Newton didn't invent the word "gravity."
The dude needed a life off with simple adventures. 14 is the doctor who lived happily ever after. 15 was the one ready to take that healing and love and soar the stars again. Thats why he was so full of life. He was truly a regenerated doctor. And he will take the universe by storm. Plus yeah it totally sets up the option of a Disney 14/Donna/Unit Earth spinoff.
Also I love how villain musical numbers are becoming a thing. I am so there for it. NPH stole the show.
"Bitter" One word to describe all the new Episodes
Who-RUclipsr: Im blind for Faults, integrityless and will not call out any b.s. IF i even noticed it which isnt certain and oh my god, i will most definetly not show Spine and recognize openly the giant Middlefinger
that is it make-canon and extra-mention the TImeless-Child, a Storyline the vast majority of Fans did not likeee
!
Loved the musical number. Totally fit this guy and when The Master did it.
@slevinchannel7589 Did you watch the video? Jessie criticises and praise sin equal measure, a very balanced review! In dr who groups and forums the response is overall positive. Far right spaces, not fans, are the ones leading the hate and vitriol.
@@HeyItsMadwrong.
This was David Tennant’s mini-series. That’s why I don’t have a huge issue with how Ncuti was kinda pushed to the side at the end. His time is coming, his Doctor Who begins on Christmas!
Mel has gotten a lot of flak over the years for the screaming damsel in distress bit that she ended up doing a lot of during Season 24, but we also see her being consistently intelligent, observant, kind, outspoken, and brave! She's just not an action hero-when she saves the day, it's because she's the one who notices the key details that other people miss, not because she picks up a rocket launcher and splodes the bad guys. Sploding the bad guys is Ace's job. That's why Ace and Mel are such a great team in "Dragonfire"!
I suppose that makes her pretty similar to Donna in some ways, I hadn't considered that.
Also unfortunate that she was introduced during the late 80s which was a turbulant time for the series. Well she wasn't really introduced bc S23 didn't pan out as originally intended, apparently (though I love Trial Of A Time Lord).
@@spicyuh It's true! They have a lot in common! No surprise they hit it off so well in this episode.
Seeing Mel's brilliance on full display and properly APPRECIATED was so good! I always loved her and wished she got to show more of her devastating intelligence.
I actually saw Peri as more of the screaming damsel in distress (or constantly complaining) than Mel.
I think you can explain away why the bigeneration happened as the toymaker's presence causing reality to be a bit more malleable.
Things that normally should be impossible are able to happen.
I think the way it was written was perhaps a bit clumsy. But the way it allows the doctor to comfort himself at the end makes up for it for me.
If it was that, I would've liked that being explained or theorised within the episode.
As it is it just kinda happened, and I don't really like that. There's a throwaway line about it being a myth, but it sure would've been nice to have had that teased before it happens.
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I would have liked bigeneration if it was temporary. Like, it happened because of the Toymaker’s reality-bending wonkiness. But then with the Toymaker gone, 14 finds himself sort of starting to turn to regeneration dust. He breaks down, and he has to let go and become those glowing wisps we always see. But he has enough time to linger for a proper goodbye. That would have been beautiful to me. And closure.
Yeah I get it. But think of it this way if you have a hard time with it think of it like the toy maker only helped it happen not cause it.
Yes yes a few things I think a lot of people were hoping would turn out to be "the toymaker did it" ... But he didn't do much at all unfortunately.
Maybe I’m predisposed to giving RTD the benefit of the doubt because his era is my favorite, but I actually liked 14’s end here (provided they let it end and resist a spin-off!) because of its implications for companion relationships. I like how all of RTD’s companions end their storylines in relatively good positions, it shows that they matter as characters to him, beyond meeting tragic fates so the Doctor can be a sad boy. But there’s still that underlying tension in that the Doctor will always move on in a way that the companions just can’t. That power dynamic is baked into the show and they always address it a little for the drama of it, but it always gets dropped because we don’t really have a show without it.
Imo 14 slowing down at Donna’s behest and learning to be a part of others’ lives (as opposed to the other way round) is a really nice way to resolve the tension that (for me) has always existed in the Doctor/Companion relationship, and now 15 can start with a clean slate.
Also, I guess I wasn’t worried about David Tennant pulling focus with the bi-generation because Ncuti Gatwa ABSOLUTELY STOLE THE SHOW. I do hope they keep the focus on him from now on and let 14 rest, because wow I’m excited for 15’s run.
The ending with 14th sitting around the table with his found family really highlighted a common part of the queer experience. For some of us, our friends are more a family than our blood relatives. It was really sweet having the Doctor feeling at home and finding his family.
Ohh I didn't even think about that!! I love it even more now
The regeneration (bi-generation) to me looked almost like a reverse of the 4th into 5th doctors regeneration was. In that situation you had Tom Bakers 4th being shadowed by a stranger in white who the doctor talks to in the distance at one point. The mystery was who was the stranger? When Tom's doctor lies dying on the floor he says "It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for" and then the stranger comes walking up to the doctor and his companions and merges with the doctor, regenerating Tom's 4th doctor into Peter Davidson's 5th doctor (a comment from Adrick or Nissa being "the stranger. he was the doctor all along"). so 14 into 15 did feel like a reversal of that - but thinking about it now just brings to mind this: "the rules" regarding how regeneration works, or how it is triggered and manifests, wasn't really established until Peter Davidsons 5th doctor regenerating into Colin Bakers 6th. Before then the first doctor literally just grew too old and regenerated, with the 2nd doctor explaining it as a butterfly breaking out of its cocoon. The 2nd doctor has a forced regeneration, and it was a impossed on him against his will by the timelords (who were OP super beings back then). 3rds regeneration into 4th was the first "regular" regeneration as we would come to see it (setting up the template for 5 into 6 and onwards) and the 4th doctors regeneration was just weird as fuck, with a future ghost of the future doctor merging with the dying 4th triggering the regeneration (also during the 4th doctors era the Time Lady Roman was literally swapping her faces in one episode as if she were changing cloths raising the question of whether a time lord could change at will without dying and without taking a life off the regereation line).
My head Canon the 14th doctor is the watcher, that gives his life to The 4th doctor to regenerate
@@luizansounds That would be an interesting way to sorta make sense of what was a really nonsensical part of 80s WHO. Now if only they could explain why he decided opening the doors of the TARDIS while submerged in the Thames was a good idea...
Oh wow, I haven't seen those episodes for more than 30 years, so thanks for reminding me of them! I really appreciate the way you connected those ideas!
The only person who could give The Doctor the solace, understanding and forgiveness he needed was himself. 15's embrace of 14 was what the character needed to heal and move on. I loved it.
I really liked how the Bi-generation played out. We got to spend much more time than we usually get to in their first appearance and we got to give David’s Doctor a nice sendoff with a happy ending.
Yeah! Every time we turned around with 10, something was looking to punch him in the gut. He's had a fair share of sorrow, it was nice to see him NOT have to say goodbye again, but instead go somewhere and REST. (It honestly works better narratively as well. As I said, we're too used to seeing him get traumatized or abandoned. There's only so many Tennant-rain-pouring-down scenes we should be expected to take 😭)
I prefer his previous send off. Bringing him back for these terrible episodes has been ridiculous.
@@Sonof_DRN2004 Considering the number of people I’ve Head complain specifically about “I don’t want to go,” I suspect this was meant as a bit of a do-over.
The puppet show felt like RTD mildly dragging the Moffat method of writing out a companion, but the bi-regeneration to me felt exactly like what RTD did with Rose Tyler. Like you said, what happens next will determine how well that ages.
Also, in the behind the scenes to see Bonnie Langford say it was nice that Mel, nominally a computer scientist, finally got to use a computer. No fault of her or Colin Baker, but the writing of that era did neither of them many favors. I mostly remember Mel as trying to force exercise and smoothies on the Doctor.
I don’t think he was attacking Moffat at all. I think he was tying it in to the rest of the Doctor’s traumas to give a pretext for his needing to take a break. That seems to me to fit what the Toymaker’s doing better- the Doctor’s defenses are meant to be hollow and weak, with the Toymaker’s attacks showing how Moffat’s companion endings weren’t as light and happy as they’re cracked up to be. Plus, RTD loves Moffat- it’d be strange for him to attack his friend’s writing.
And scream. Mel was a screamer back in the day. 😊
How I'm processing it is that since the ep where Donna & Rose 'letting it go' so the Doc subconsciously processed his trauma and this is the result. Essentially the new Doc stepping onto the scene saying and comforting to their previous face that I got you, and it's okay. Either way, really really enjoyed the ep! Got me all emotional. I'm even more excited now more than ever for the new Doc Who eps!
I'm just worried that people will use this to say that 14 is the "real" Doctor, not the "woke/fake" 15.
Well, the 15th Doctor didn’t even get the keys to THE TARDIS but just A TARDIS.
It feels very much like corporate types covering their bases to me?
Keep the 14th Doctor on the subs bench at Donna’s and allowed to age up as well?
Very convenient…in fact too convenient!😅
@@PaulusAlone I think the 14th Doctor isn't about the corporate mentality so much as RTD looking at a bunch of massive mysteries and say, "How can I wrap them up in a bow?" We now have a "Curator" if we want it. We could have the "Watcher." Heck, if you want a mega wibbly wobbly timey wimey trick, you could have the origin of the Timeless Child.
@@vapoet - Gods I hope that’s true! 👍
That's exactly what they're doing and RTD should've known better than to do this BS. Especially for this Doctor or the 13th. These were milestones and why give the haters a reason to downplay either of them as lesser Doctors
"I could retire and become the Great Curator"
Now we know how the National Gallery got the round things.
I think what you missed is that 14 isn't having more wacky adventures. He's settled into a home life and a real family. He might pop off for some trips with one of them, but he's very much not chasing adventure. Thats the whole point of him joining Donna and co. He's been running forever.
Now it's 15's turn.
It makes absolutely no sense for his Character, The Doctor is always the Doctor...
@@xLionsxxSmithyxit's a consolation prise for us lol. All that trauma especially that chibnall put the doctor and audience through, well you get to keep your favourite doctor alive and well somewhere in the whoniverse as we move on. I'm only mostly joking lol.
Yet, 14 not having wacky adventures feels wrong for a couple reasons: 1) part of his wacky adventures was going around trying to help people, and not doing that feels intrinsically wrong; 2) he still seems to travel in the TARDIS from time to time (Mel & Rose mention trips), and the Doctor's luck is the other part of why he gets into wacky adventures, just by being places, he runs into adventure.
@@Tuaron Remember when 11 stayed with the Ponds while they were looking into the Cubes, The Doctor doesn't like sitting around doing nothing, 14 Sitting around doing nothing goes against The Doctors entire Character.
@@xLionsxxSmithyx While I want to say "exactly", I think that was also the point that RTD/15/Donna were trying to make: that 14 needs to push himself to sit and process, but I agree it feels off.
This was needed, it was time to end the trauma stricken Doctor, the 12th and 13th Doctors where broken figures. A perfect healing process would've been the 11th Doctor healing with 12, but life is messy and the Doctors arc replicates that.
The bigeneration I read as splitting the “Doctor wracked with guilt” from the “Emotionally well-adjusted Doctor” - notice how Ncuti was repeatedly able to support and comfort the 14th incarnation. On Bad Wolf Bay when the Meta-crisis Doctor was left with Rose, that single-hearted one was from not long after the Last Great Time War and still dealing with the rage it involved that Rose had helped the 10th Doctor overcome, and so she had that again with that Doctor.
But, I have heard that Disney is referring to the upcoming series as Season 1 of Doctor Who, and I fear that this is them wanting to be able to wash out large parts of the 60 years’ historical emotional traumas on the feeling that too many of their subscribers wouldn’t know or understand those and have difficulty adjusting to the missed history, beyond maybe the Daleks and Cybermen (and The Master, although that was at its best as Missy) and not give the show the viewership Disney wants. These specials, on a certain level, may be essentially a bridge from the BBC Doctor Who to a Disney Doctor Who, with the BBC history being some miasma semi-lost in time, and with Bad Wolf Productions having much more control over the series rather than the BBC, there may not be options to recover some historical grounding.
When you think about it, When 9 regenerated to 10 then 10 to 11 and so on, the newer doctor barely had 5 minutes on screen for that episode. With that I think they did Ncuti a great service. I think I'm gonna really love Ncuti as the doctor from this point onward. As for David Tennant, this could set the stage for years down the road when he could be regenerated into Tom Baker so he could be the curator (from the 50th anniversary episode). How else will Matt Smith meet Tom Baker at that point if not some splitting or other shenanigans? I think using the toymaker thing as a mcguffin for things going sideways was ok. I'm just happy to see 14 get the happy ending that 10 wanted.
The bi-generation is one of those ideas I bristled at on paper, but I like that it allowed the Doctor a happy ending to 60 years of stories and hardship, and some nice explicit self love.
I didn’t love the Toymaker stuff though. An omnipotent being who filters all of human interaction through the lens of games is great, but I don’t think they really utilized it spectacularly.
I loved 15th's enthusiasm at the bigen. The way he told 14 to push was very much all medical drama birth scenes everywhere, and it got a giggle out of me (pun intended).
The ball dance (that's what I called the game of catch in my head) was also hilarious in its own way.
I can't wait to see more of 15 and his thick legs!
I can't even, JUST
"Where were you when two gingers pulled a black guy out of David Tennant" is ok, but Jodie's clothes weren't, fr?
I'm 1000% okay with the bi-gen. I thought Gatwa shined like a star next to Tennant and proved he was worthy of the title. Plus, letting the Doctor process his trauma is direly needed. He deserves a happy ending, and this lets him have his rest and eat it too. I'm happy!
It's not about David tho, for me, this is awesome for the possibilities it creates when this new/old doctor regenerates. We can now have a Paul McGann series, a new Matt Smith (limited probably) series with Moffat writing. We could have Sylvester McCoy back even. This is a perfect story mechanic in order to let any living Doctor return to the role whenever they want, as was suggested by Tom Bakers appearance as the Curator in the 50th. This is a gift to the fans, basically live action big finish, and I cannot wait to see what they come up with.
As for 15, I don't think this will undermine him at all. I can't imagine they'd air these spinoff specials side by side with the new series, these will be gap fillers most likely. Moreover Ncuti is such a powerful and incredible actor, I think he will quickly become an iconic doctor in his own right
I definitely feel more split on this episode than previous ones, but I think I do lean ultimately positive.
Firstly I want to shout out the horror elements with the puppets - they were so creepy! (seeing them up close in Unleashed did not help lol)
With regards to bigeneration and 14's ending I am ultimately really positive on it. Normally whenever the doctor gets together there's always the sniping with each other, but to see 15 be so tender and loving to 14 seemed so sweet? I like the idea of getting to a place of healing that you can look back on your past with such kindness. The implication that 14 is going to do this healing and that's why 15 can be that compassionate sits well with me.
I thought Ncuti's introduction was fab, and I'm so excited to see 15's first solo outing at Christmas
Final sidenote - Sarah Jane and Rose mentions broke me, and the SJ reference in particular was nice cause this episode gave me strong Day of The Clown vibes from Sarah Jane Adventures (mostly from NPH but still). If we do get the UNIT spinoff, I just hope some of the Sarah Jane kids come back for a bit.
In the commentary track from RTD on the episode, he explained the purpose of the bigeneration, and it's fucking wild: according to RTD, the bigeneration was caused by the Toymaker interfering in the Doctor's life, and it is retroactive and has happened to every single Doctor back to the first. So there is now a version of each Doctor that didn't regenerate who split off from the next Doctor, and they're still out there in the universe. The older Doctors that appear in the Tales from the TARDIS shorts on the iPlayer Whoniverse? Those are all canonical versions of the Doctor now. RTD says he did it so they can have each actor back on the show as their respective Doctor without having to explain why they're so much older now.
None of this is explained on screen, of course. But there it is. And if you think really hard about it, it means there are now a LOT of David Tennant Doctors out there.
The 14th Doctor being called the "10th Doctor" in the subtitles is an issue in the credits, too. If you watch the show on Disney+ and stick around to see the cast list for the foreign language dubs, every single foreign language credit refers to the David Tennant dub actor as a variation of the 10th Doctor (like in one language, he's listed as Doktor 10). I don't know why they did this.
As easy as it might have seemed, the way they took out the Toymaker was more substantial than how the 1st Doctor beat him back in the 60s -- by just throwing his voice and leaving the Toymaker looking shocked as his world explodes.
As someone who hasn't watch DW for a good 8 years, I came back to the series because I feel like my life is settling down and back together... and I am healing. So - I can live with 14 living with Donna and recovering. Gives 15 a chance to MOVE on and go out there with new found acceptance of his past and moving forward
Honestly I think I would feel a lot better about the split Doctor if they didn't split the tardis. No only would having The Doctor leave the TARDIS would not only feel like The Doctor is making a substantial sacrafice in order to acieve his happy ending and would feel like a natural end to his arc if he can leave the TARDIS behind for the next generation. But it would also give us a reason why The Doctor can't just have more adventures in time and space whenever he wants, like you can still do stuff with the earth bound doctor like with the 3rd Doctor's UNIT era or him becoming the curator.
I was fine with this ep. We have a doctor that gets to retire instead of dying. Maybe come back for the occasional special with Donna so we can get a few more of these special eps. That feels nice. New Doctor flies off to his christmas special in a few weeks to shine solo, and then his solo main series.
Actually new doctors almost never get the focus in thier first appearance anyway since they show up as a surprise/tease at the end. Him showing up in the middle of an ep this time is unusual. New Doctors get their focus in their second appearance/ep typically(exception being the movie doctor or war doctor) so this was more traditional then not, and I don't think 15 was shortchanged at all since these specials were very much the 14th's.(In hindsight that's why 15's Tardis has a jukebox so if we see 14 again we can tell the sets apart, lol)
I feel the same way about Ncuti Gatwa being a bit short-changed. I have to keep reminding myself that most Doctors only get a few seconds of screen time before the end of the regeneration episode. The actor doesn't really get to establish themselves as being "The Doctor" in our minds until their first full episode, or their first special.
I guess we just have to hope that when he gets a Christmas Special on his own, that's when he'll get to shine and really carve out a feeling that he really _is_ the Doctor, and that he's the "real" Doctor as much as Tenant is
I was reading comments and someone pointed out how its possible 14 will merge with 15 at the end of his storyline. And I was like "Like 14 will probably just merge with The Doctor" and I had to stop and smile because, yeah Ncuti is The Doctor, 14 is a version of the Doctor but The Doctor is Ncuti now, and I like that. I like that mind has already put "The Doctor" to that face, that personality. I LOVE that doctor already, he seems so much fun.
Nchuti in his underwear is certainly going to make Comic Con cosplay more interesting 🤣
I have my issues with the bi-generation and am still doubtful this version of Tennant was an actual regeneration, but if we are finally able to dump the angst and let the Doctor just be the Doctor and have fun, I'll cut RTD some slack.
And how nice is it that they not only brought Mel back, but gave her story a resolution.
This can explain the curator....the 11th Doctor did say he could retire and end up being a curator....and of course Tom Baker was there saying in the future you could revisit some old loved faces. Wonderful tie in to the end of the 50th anniversary special.
David will regenerate into Tom baker and become the curator
Saving theat for the 75th anniversary?
Loved this episode, especially NPH. The Toymaker was genuinely super menacing. The Toymaker showing up at UNIT was one of the most fun yet menacing scenes I've seen a Doctor Who episode, up there with the Simm's Master cackling madly to music while the Toclafane emerge.
It gives him this sense of *incredible* power where you can feel that, even if he just let the bullets fly, they couldn't even come close to actually hurting him. He's not even a god, he's so much more powerful than that and you can feel it.
I understand your worry about Ncuti getting overshadowed, but honestly, I feel like the first story of a doctor is something Im never a huge fan of due to how theres alot of doctor acting weird due to regeneration energy, and the trailer for the the christmas episode looks real fun and is gonna give us a real focus on this new doctor with his new companion
I liked the bi-gen. It feels like The Doctor getting his chance to stop and heal while also getting to release that pain and go on with the future.
I think with the gold tooth moment at the end that was the master leaving it given the toy maker was banished possible foreshadowing a new Missy with the nail polish , maybe Jynx Monsoon?
I think the person picking up the tooth was Indira Varma as The Rani. Jonathan Groff will be The Master. And the big boss will be Omega
NuWho fans be like "it's never the Rani"
I love that it connected to the tales of the Tardis series, that supposedly all the doctors we saw there are the split versions, as all doctors have now split because of the Toy maker.
SPOILERS:
I definitely agree about the episode feeling rushed and I didn't like the bigeneration at all- but that's probably just me being a stick in the mud and not liking change.
I love Ncuti though and cannot wait to see more of him!
I had heard that Davies introduced Bigeneration so that future guest appearances of the Doctor (like for Anniversaries) will now have a built in reason as to why the older Doctor is, ya know, older. It's now going to be a Multiverse Bigeneration rather than "The TARDIS had to compensate for temporal distortion" or some such.
That being said, it felt to me during the episode that were also leaning on Bigeneration to sell the public on Ncuti's Doctor.
This sincerely might just be one of my favourite episodes of the show, period. I’ll have to give it some time before entirely committing to that, but I can at least say that Neil Patrick Harris’s Celestial Toymaker most certainly is a new favourite. He captures everything you want in a Who villain; campy, menacing and ultimately just an absolute riot to watch! That dance sequence was just magnificently silly!
And as for the story itself, I gotta say that twist at the end (I’ll try and stay spoiler-light, but maybe wait to read this next bit if you haven’t seen it), is actually something that really worked for me; despite the controversy in the fandom it’ll no doubt cause. It’s an anniversary, after all, so wrapping everything up in a nice little bow is honestly just a perfect send-off to me; I mean, as the characters literally pointed out, David Tennant’s Doctor has earned his swan-song!
And Ncuti Gatwa… I already know I’m going to love his Doctor. We’ve never really had a Doctor (minus Christopher Eccleston’s 9 I suppose, due to his off-screen regeneration) introduced with such a definitive sense of who they are. And man do I like it. Comforting, vibrant and ultimately radiating fun: yeah, this guy’s gonna be good!
So yeah, safe to say I loved it. As a whole, the 60th anniversary itself was not what I expected but, despite going into this episode with uncertainty on whether it could stick the landing, it gives me an innumerable amount of joy when I say that this gave me everything I wanted and more. Doctor Who is never going to be objectively perfect, but this is pretty damn perfect to me.
Now, let’s bring on Christmas!!!!
14:10 the recent Shin Kamen Rider movie had a good response to the whole “humans are inherently bad” argument that I found surprisingly positive and though-provoking. “Humans are the only species that can end conflict WITHOUT violence” putting aside if that is 100% accurate, the idea that our ability to forgive, be kind, and seek peace is what makes us human as opposed to greed, cruelty or whatever was a very poignant statement.
I love David Tennant's doctor, and i really thought he was finally saying goodbye once and for all, but him staying really takes away the significance of him coming back (for me at least). i feel like one part of the fandom is gonna be focusing on 14 and wanting him on a spinoff or whatever bc hes everyone fave doctor, and as you said, i feel like all of this takes away our focus to Ncuti's doctor. I wish they could just let go of Tennant's doctor.
look, to give the doctor a GOOOD ending, si something i wished for a long time, his story might not be over, but its not tennants doctor anymore. i like this ending, him caring for his past companions, possibly returning in 5 to 10 years for a reuniion?
but npw, he is a doctor with a LOT on his plate, he needs to rest, his time is done.
I couldn't agree more. You said it far better than I could. I don't hate David Tennant, he was a good doctor but his time has come and gone, it's time to leave the stage and let the new doctor have their time to shine
OMG, I AGREE SO HARD. I love Tennant, but he's hogging the stage at this point. :/
I'm a bit disappointed that they pulled shenanigans with the bigeneration now to give *another* Tennant Doctor a chance to settle down, instead of doing so to let Thirteen and Yaz be together. As you said, there's already an extra Ten that got to live with Rose in a parallel reality due to messing around with regeneration. Did they really need to do it again?
I agree about Tennant not needing another settle down episode but I think anything that puts more 13th Doctor in the audiences face at the moment would be a bad idea?
I actually like this change a lot. Mostly with 15 telling 14 that 15 was fine, because 14 would be fine. They were doing therapy out of order. So I think this is to say that 14 and 15 are somehow still linked, because 14s development still benefits 15. They are not now two separate doctors, but a doctor occupying 2 locations in space time at the same time.
The bi-generation sends an important message, it doesn't take anything away from NG, in fact he immediately took charge and led Tennant.
The last part of the episode, from regeneration and on, was very touching and heartfelt, I really liked it. I think it's so good that show addressed the weight and psychological impact of the constant moving from big event to big event, from loss to loss, and highlighted how important it is to stop and acknowledge and work through the trauma.
I thought they adequately explained the bi-generation. They had established that the toymaker can turn bullets into flowers and science is a mere plaything in their presence, so the bi-generation is a consequence of playing a game with the toymaker. The tardis duplication with a hammer at the end also reinforces this view.
I kinda am on board with this too. I can see it as the toymaker making the game "even" by hijacking the Doctor's life. That last catch seemed too much of an easy miss for a character that literally lives to play games.
I feel like the moffat era doctors not taking time to grive for there companion is a recon, smith settles down to grive for the ponds in the snowman and smith and capaldi settle down for long periods of time in time of the doctor and series 10
I like to think that The Curator (Tom Baker) from Day of the Doctor is a further down the line regeneration of 14th Doctor after he split and went on his own way.
Same and I personally like to think the Curator in that context comes back to allow the 4th to regenerate in logopolis (my head cannon)
And maybe even valeyard gets explained one day if he gets reintroduced as a recurring villain
Firstly Well done on getting these up so fast.
Thank GOD the horror stories of all characters being killed off are false.
NPH acted his arse off. Ncuti from the moment he appeared gave that vibe sadly I never felt from JW, For those outside the UK When Kate removed the arm band and went into that rage it covered the UK as it stands. RTD is back and wow the Defund the BBC crowd are not happy, Thank god disabled hate finally mentioned "I saw you walking" If I had a pound for every time I've been told that no they saw someone pick me up and put me in a chair.
A Sci-fi show has actually done more to convey the shambles of the UK than News networks. As for the episode itself Acting sublime, Donna vs the dolls I was worried for a moment then she did a Brenda from Scary movie and its the first time I've laughed this year.
So Wild theory time here We know Disney has pumped £££££££££ into the show
this leaves the door wide open for CT and a UNIT spin off. Or dare I say a DT/CT set of Disney+ films ? When the TV show is off air, A bit like Star trek, People say two doctors there's actually 3. The one with Rose. The acting was amazing was the story insane? 100%
but I loved it.
My theory is a UNIT spin-off with Tennant and Tate doing guest appearances. It keeps them in the Whoniverse as much as they want to be and gives the UNIT spin-off access to a Doctor without having to find a way to schedule Ncuti to do guest appearances.
I hope so, I saw one terrible rumour Kate was going to die thank goodness that was just BS, Also really glad they changed the regeneration from being total carnage of everything around to something totally different, Said before some creators are not even subtle they make content basically they hate it even before the episode airs. The PM on the podium is #partygate its almost the same room and the arrogance, This is what I always loved about RTD he uses his stories to reach the younger people and connects with them. I really hope we get a UNIT show that place is amazing@@T320SNU
Coming in November 2033, the 70th Anniversary special presentation, The Five Tenth Doctors.
Starring David Tennant as the Tenth Doctor,
David Tennant as the 10.5 Doctor,
David Tennant as the Metacrisis Doctor,
David Tennant as the Fourteenth Doctor,
David Tennant as the Curator
and introducing David Tennant as the Valeyard.
It needed to be a two parter. Also, did anyone happen to check the Toymaker's ankle?
The thing about 14 overshadowing 15 is that that was going to happen anyway. If they did a traditional regeneration, it would have been at the very end, and we’d have 5 seconds of Ncuti before he sauntered off into the TARDIS and left. And, this is DAVID TENNENT’s special, not Ncuti’s, why shouldn’t he get to shine the brightest. What the Bi-generation did was 1) insert a bit of a multi-doctor story, which is always a joy! 2) Create and actual passing-of-the-torch moment, which Doctor Who was never actually been able to properly do oddly enough. 3) Allowed Ncuti more screen time to get to establish the general gist of this Doctor before the Christmas special!
My understanding is that 15 has lived through all of 14's time with Donna, that this is more timey wimey than really anything, and that eventually 14 will regenerate into nothing.
I actually really enjoyed the Bi-Generation change. Mainly because it gave us some time to get used to the new Doctor. The shock of a quick regeneration and then cut to credits (like it's always been) has ALWAYS been jarring. Usually the new Doctor coming in only gets mere seconds on screen before the episode ends. So the new setup of getting BOTH Doctors on screen and getting an emotional heartwarming "passing the torch" moments was actually a lovely change to me. Personally, i loved it. And now that I got the new Doctor in a few scenes already and got to glimpse his personality... I'm actually SUPER excited for his Era now! He seems genuinely interesting and a fun new take on the Doctor role
Having rewatched it, one big thought I have about this episode is that it was a quick runthrough of (almost) every major moment/trope from RTD's original run:
- Regeneration-related mishaps create multiple Doctors to resolve crisis & a David Tennant Doctor retires to live with the companion
- pretty on-the-nose social & political commentary
- Doctor is haunted by past trauma/survivor's guilt
- future villain/plot is teased with obligue reference or meme phrase
- villain plays a 'long game' to manipulate human race
- villain plays 90s/2000s pop song & dances to it to taunt Doctor&co
- classic era companion returns as cast member of (potential) spin-off
- said spin-off cast calls in the Doctor to help with global threat
- Master return is teased via item containing Master's essence being picked up by hand with red nails
Overall, I am conflicted about The Giggle; I like many parts of it (esp. NPH, despite him butchering my native German 😅), but I found the conclusion underwhelming and a lot of the writing emphasizing emotional resonance over actual story logic (a similar problem I have with RTD's first era): 10's face coming back & him (nearly) immediately running into Donna ("destiny is coming for Donna Noble"), the bi-generation happening (and the lack of a proper explanation or exploration of what it means), "the giggle" infecting technologies that have nothing to do with TV (and why that is even something the Toymaker does), etc.
I'm conflicted on the split, I love both of them and I can't wait for the new series but it almost feels like they were afraid to fully commit to the Doctor being black so they had to make sure certain fans could still have the "true" Doctor around.
Hopefully they will fix this in the very near future
Also, can I just point out, if The Doctor went through so much he had to split off a new one so that he could chill for a bit and really deal with it, it's like a retcon without a retcon, wtf Russel, this is like a 12D Chess move in some whacky way.
I'd like to think the David Doctor does indeed retire from full-on saving the world and eventually takes on the role as the Curator
That is a neat theory. Totally possible
I really would be fine if we just have 14 out there - with Donna and their family. I read that - giving them that happy ending - as more the intention than setting up some spin off to undermine Ncuti. I guess we’ll see but if I’m right I think it was a good choice. They aren’t gonna top 10’s goodbye and I did kind of see something like this coming because it seemed weird to bring him back just to go away again after 3hours of specials.
I think, the reasons the bi regeneration was even possible is because if the toy makers strange reality bending nature being applied to the doctor so basically wibbly wobbly stuff
It's not often I disgree with your take on the show, but Ncuti Gatwa gets literally more air time after a regeneration in an episode than any other Doctor & those majestic thighs stole the scene every second they were on screen. I actually felt that Fifteen outshone Fourteen throughout those scenes. He wasn't worn out, washed out & in need of a rest. He was brand new, shiny & exciting & part of that was because the rest that Fourteen is going to have will eventually impact Fifteen (I think - it's a bit wibbly wobbly timey wimey).
My only real criticism is that the Toymaker was destroyed by literally dropping the ball. But then, games are like that. Over quickly. But the tooth is...truth is...the games aren't completely over yet ;) someone is coming back & I can't wait to find out who they'll become!
My friends and I all agreed back in the day that the doctor-worship started with 10 and concluded that RTD was using Rose as his stand-in for being infatuated with Tennant. I have loved the 2nd and 3rd specials this year, but they have certainly reinforced my opinion that RTD has a (entirely understandable!) Tennant fixation.
I overall loved the episode, but I am torn on the bigeneration. Part of oe says "give Tenant a happy ending", but there are issues. I do think this will divide the fanbase. And now any disaster on Earth will have the MCU effect of "where was 14?" At the same time, Ncuti did really good with his time and I can't wait to see what he does
"Let the [tenth doctor] die. Kill [him] if you have to." Agree with your points, Jessie!
On the surface, breaking the rules of regeneration from Time of the Doctor allowed me to accept the bi-regeneration where both incarnations of the Doctor can continue to exist, but on an emotional story arc level, we get to see the passing of the torch of older and newer Doctor that we don't get since the post-regeneration the Doctor tends to need to get their bearings in order and often have crises of defining themself. This mutual respect between David and Ncuti was great to see, plus we get a multi-Doctor episode in the process.
If we want to see it as parts of the same personality, a healthy acknowledgement of the past and what the future will bring as part of the Doctor's life story was lovely (almost akin to the Steven Universe finale of gem Steven and human Steven accepting each other, hence a self-love not often seen or expressed in MC in general).
POTENTIAL REASON FOR BIGENERATION - it sounds like the toymaker made it happen on purpose to toy with the doctor. He talks about having endless doctors to kill and play with. I think Rtd's intent was to suggest this was the toymakers doing, not just a random thing that happened for no particular in universe reason
The story kinda hit personally for me cause Im currently in a period where I have taken a rest and slowed things down a little, I love how the original concept of regeneration is this metaphor for renewal (beautiful put by Peter Capaldi), and this now opens up a whole lot of other themes
Same! Currently dealing with trying to take rest before I fall head-first into a burnout (though I might already be there) and I definitely cried during this episode. The idea of a possible future you, who has healed, who knows you better than anyone else does, stepping in to gently tell you it'll be ok and that you need to rest in order to become that healed person? Oof. And the 'this is what it was all for' bit, where fourteen finds reprieve from everything just constantly happening all the time by finding this little moment of joy with his chosen family? Got me right in the heart. And I feel that it works so well that he bi-generates because it's almost like his future self stepping in to make sure he doesn't end then and there, but gets to grow and heal.
The problem I have with the regeneration is that it broke so many traditions...not just one. Generally the new Doctor takes a while to figure out who they are and get their bearings. This time the new Doctor pops up and seems to be totally aware and ready to go. Also the lack of regeneration energy seemed off. My thought is that you can get away with breaking one aspect of cannon if done well, but it is a lot harder to break several all in one go. Also, there should only be one Doctor...not 2. Kind of diminishes both
There apears to be some wibbly wobbly stuff going on, since 15 says he's healthy because 14 stays gets healthy. When 14 is finaly ready to regenerate his energy may go back in time into his former self enableing the bigeneration.
I know I already commented, but this just occurred to me. I did find it interesting that when he doubled the TARDIS, he chose to apologize to the original and then chose the new one for his own. In a way, it felt like him letting his oldest friend have a rest as well, while at the same time, not making it necessary for these two oldest friends have to separate. I am also curious to see if this new Tennant Doctor will eventually regenerate (which some people are speculating, but I simply don't read enough DW news, possibly, to have nailed this down. if anyone knows, please let me know), or if he's become something like the Metacrisis Doctor where he now just has one life left to live, and all of the regenerations will only be with the 15th and whomever comes after him.
I like that with Shirley they're actually having the conversation about ambulatory wheelchair users. I noticed in the first special that she crossed her legs which I thought might have been a mistake if it was a one and done character but I like that they are not only pushing positive disabled representation but also educating the public on a widely misunderstood topic. I don't usually use a wheelchair myself but I have definitely been on the receiving end of rants similar to Kate's when she was under the influence of the giggle about "faking" my disability so I like that that was called out as an ignorant and shitty thing to do.
Amen, plus people who are disabled but are ambulatory, OMG, even with a handicap car sign people judge you are not suffering from a disability that limits actions.
I'm not a big fan of dr. who, really don't know much about the series or the lore really. But I am a big fan of Ncuti Gatwa as an actor. He was great in sex education, and if you pretend Otis doesn't exist -and why wouldn't you- he is basically the main character XD
That’s twice that RTD has sent a companion off with their own Tenth Doctor home game.
Soooo many feelings. Will take a minute sort out I think...
Some, in no particular order:
1. Love that Ncuti didn't immediately blow up the tardis (thank you RTD, that trope is getting so old).
2. All the "binary" focus in the first two episodes makes more sense.
3. There are now two tardises (tardisi?). Making the fugitive doctor possible now.
4. Love NPH
5. Love that Wilf was still there.
6. I'm happy for Tennants's doctor to be there sparingly, but hopefully, he will not be a focus. I'm looking forward to Ncuti's take on the doctor.
7. The stories have felt small(? Not quite the right word). But that is something that I liked about RTDxs run. The doctor wasn't a God.
Far from all just the first that came to mind right now😂
Am optimistic and looking forward to seeing where they go from here
Idk im not super offended by the lack of focus on ncudi cause like, the alternative would have been what? David regenerates at the end of the episode and he gets his 1 or 2 minutes of “oh who am I?” Like every other regeneration? Idk, that wouldn’t have given him much more than this did
My overall feelings are a bit conflicted. On the one hand I really enjoyed the episode (15 ist giving great vibes, the Toymaker was a big W, etc.). On the other hand I don't think that it was a great anniversary. At least I didn't get the same celebratory feeling for it, as I had with the 50th.
I thought it wasn't clear what the set up was but I realized the notation happened now partially because the toymakers reveal and involvement with the edge of the universe but also invoking superstition at the edge of the universe messing with the laws and allowing for a "myth" like bigeneration to occur. It also has a lot of interesting setup for more clarification and elaboration on the implications of the flux and the doctor's origins and setup for tying all of this together
The Giggle was perfect. This was truly the first of these specials that felt like a celebration of 60 years of Doctor Who. I loved the framing device of John Logie Baird and the invention of television. Really reminded me of that episode from series 2 about Queen Elizabeth II’s coronation. It had all these great callbacks and mentions to so many characters, most if not all of whom are no longer accessible to the Doctor like Amy and Rose Tyler. Is it wishful thinking to hope that no mention of Martha means Freema Agyeman will pop up again soon? Neil Patrick Harris was fantastic! I loved the switching of accents. Evil camp is always fun, especially when it’s as sinister as this was. And the “Spice Up Your Life” dance sequence. I still have no idea what the hell bi-generation means. I mean we heard from all the Doctors previously in the reboot that regeneration was super dodgy but making a whole new one is not a twist I was expecting! But this establishes that in a one-on-one-hundred-million-billion-billion chance, Time Lords can reproduce asexually. However how many times can the Doctor make a copy of themselves? The end fight with the Toymaker had the frenetic pace of Ten's fight with the Sycorax way back in 2006. I loved Ncuti’s energy. He really felt like a showman, much more than the other Doctors previously. And because they said he processed his trauma, Fifteen seems like he’s going to be a Doctor who is having fun and not haunted by his dark deeds or running from something. Which is a Doctor RTD never gave himself the chance to write. And it looks like we have another RTD mystery box on our hand with The Meep’s boss still left unanswered and now the Toymaker’s “The One Who Waits.” Let’s face it, it’s probably The Meep’s boss. . love that Fourteen’s costume got split between the two so Fifteen spends the entire episode in underwear! But because he got the shows, not only does Fourteen speed the entire 3rd act barefoot and commando, which is hilarious in and of itself, Fifteen feels even more naked. Donna’s “Do you come in a range of colors” is perfect because it addresses Ncuti’s blackness without making it a big deal. _Because It’s not!_ I love that they let Ncuti keep his true accent. I love that we didn’t have to say goodbye to Tennant again. Not really. That scene of him having lunch with Donna's family, really his family, was just perfect and I'm happy that his last words are technically "This is the happiest I've ever been in my life." You can really hear Tennant’s Scottish accent on “wheelchair accessible.” It really feels like they are setting up a UNIT spin-off. And I am here for it! I need it to be Kate, Shirley, Mel, and the Vlinx, whatever the hell that is, and maybe Osgood (fingers crossed).
Both Donna’s original wedding, where she first met the Doctor, and her actual husband happen to be black - not saying she has a “thing” but she is definitely at ease with mixed race relationships.
And now she has a UNIT income and I don’t see them as likely to sack Doctor’s Companions on their staff as they bring vastly more interstellar and timeframe independent knowledge to its work. If only they had a Sonic Screwdriver…
I like the theory that Tennant is now the first iteration of the Curator, and 14 was always intended to be the Curator, because it explains why the Doctor regenerated backwards into his face. He was 'revisiting old faces'.