Doctor Who "Empire of Death" SEASON FINALE Review
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- Опубликовано: 11 июл 2024
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The god of death holds nothing against The Doctor and his spoon!
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I'm glad the reason why Ruby stayed is not anything traumatic, unlike other new who companions
Yeah, it made me happy that she left because she's discovering good things and her family is getting bigger. I'm sick of companions leaving in miserable circumstances.
Yes! So many classic companions had relatively happy endings. They just decided to stop traveling.
I was so confused about that. At first Ruby was saying that she was going to go have tea and come back to the doctor, and then next second she was acting like she couldn't come back... And they were crying like.... Can't she go spend time with her family and the Doctor can just pop over to tomorrow morning and they can go on more adventures? I didnt get it.
@@Thief555WWJD I think that was what Ruby was saying at first, that she'd be ready to adventure again soon, but as she kept talking about this or that other new family thing, she came to an understanding that she really couldn't, that there were too many things. She wouldn't be ready tomorrow, maybe next week. Not next week, maybe in two. And probably not then either.
She's right there next to Martha and most of 13th's entourage. 😅
Now with the added context that Sutekh has essentially been piggy-backing on the TARDIS since “Pyramids of Mars” from decades ago, it kinda makes me laugh wondering how Sutekh was doing when the TARDIS blew up in the Big Bang, or just the visual of him and Captain Jack giving each other the stinkeye while riding together through the Time Vortex Twilight Zone-style XD
HE WAS THERE FOR RIVER'S CONCEPTION! THE PARADOX MACHINE! HE WAS ON TRENZALORE WHEN THE TARDIS WAS LEAKING
Eh, he wouldn't mind Jack as much, non-death not wothstanding, but I imagine he definitely gave Clara the stinkeye in Time of the Doctor. 😂
🤣🤣🤣
Or the sinister presence that the Fifth Doctor feel in Castrovalva.
There’s even the idea that he was the Bad Wolf
So, I love the idea of Sutekh keeping the only people who could stop him around entirely because he's annoyed he can't learn the answer to a question that doesn't even need to involve him. I think it's the perfect flaw to give a borderline invincible villain; Annoyance at something trivial they can't do, and overconfidence in their ability to handle the people they left alive. Honestly I really like everything with Sutekh himself: The Doctor's travels over the entire series being what spread him everywhere and everywhen, the dead universe, the scenes of him possessing Mel, Ruby flipping him off by dropping the screen.
But I really think Russel overplayed his hand with the mystery. I like the idea that the mother is actually normal but the belief there has to be something important about her manifests the mystery box elements. Or at least I do on paper, but in practice he added too many weird things and could not explain them all in a satisfying manner. She didn't need to point at anything! The story would be better in hindsight if she was just impossible to see clearly. It would give us a subtler build up, making the answer we got less deflating, and it wouldn't require the most nonsensical explanation possible. They didn't even try to explain how or why the memory changed, but they didn't even need to establish that question?
All in all this is probably the episode I am most conflicted on. I can't write it off as not really working for me because most of it actually does land very well, but I can't entirely shake off the parts that did not work despite wanting to. Maybe I just need time to think on it.
Yeah the snow popping up everywhere with the music really implies there was something supernatural going on that evening... that and what happened with the Maestro.
Yeah, that's how I'm feeling right now too. If she'd been important because the Doctor's presence, or the destruction of the goblins, turned that moment into some kind of fixed point in time, I would've been okay. I feel like they added too much supernatural elements to it.
@@darlhiatt8136 I *think* it's supposed to be that the supernatural thing that happened that evening was Sutekh coming back on his own to try and figure out who it was? Given "The Oldest One" and "The One Who Waits" were both referring to him. I've thought on it some more and rewatched the episode and I guess the idea is that he went there twice and inadvertently created the mystery by feeding it with his own power?
Like, the version of him that went back to see accidentally caused the supernatural "shadow" that prevented him from seeing her the first time... causing him to become invested and go back later, causing the shadow. I'm not sure how much of this is intentional and how much is me speculating though.
So since Ruby's parents are ordinary, does this mean that she's Palaptine's granddaughter?
That got a big laugh out of me 🤣🤣🤣
In the video commentary RTD said that the reason her parents are ordinary is he saw star wars episode ix and disliked that reveal.
@@Aneurin_Hunt As did we all.
@@Aneurin_Huntthe problem with that, though, is that episode viii said that her parents were ordinary, so now we’re wondering if next season is going to reveal that one of her birth parents is a chameleon arch’ed time lord or something.
@@MagicSnaily nah. RTD didn't like what rise of skywalker did. Her parents will feature doing something. Mrs Flood is the mystery we are left with. Something might happen that makes Ruby more important.
I love that Ruby got to leave without some traumatic event between her and the doctor. Their journey together just naturally came to the end.
Uh Ruby Sunday is going be in Season 15 as a companion. The ending was filmed before the signed on Millie Gibson for Season 15.
I was mildly annoyed when Ruby said "my real mum" when referring to her biological mom
(coming from someone was adopted as well, though my bio mom not being in my life didn't have the same good intention's as Ruby's mom)
I’m not adopted and I noticed that too
(im not adopted) didn't notice that but noticed at the end she said "my mum and louise" which i thought was nice
RTD talked about that line in the episode commentary. He said something like he intentionally wrote her as saying "real Mum" because she hasn't properly processed what's happened the last few days and therefore hasn't come to terms with who her real Mum is yet.
@@cardcaptor_morbius Her "real Mum" is Carla. She raised Ruby from infancy.
I also felt a small twinge at that line. Though I wonder if that could be explained as a factor of her youth.
I did really like The Doctor's argument towards not approaching Louise in the café. I feel it was important to put in that nuance that using a time machine to find her mother may not be fair to Louise. Then, I feel Ruby approached her bio mom in a very mature way to not place expectations on their meeting. This is a situation, however, that I do feel might be well served by sending an email hello first, in real life.
I think my problem with the bait-and-switch of the identity of Ruby's mother isn't even a sci fi versus fantasy thing, it's that it feels like it's trying to have its cake and eat it. The idea that an entity that can terrify the Toymaker, place itself at the head of a pantheon of incredibly powerful gods, is utterly perplexed by such an ordinary person just being ordinary makes very little sense to me, especially since I'm sure Sutekh murdered a few billion equally ordinary people in literally every place the death stuff happened. Ruby's intense curiosity about the identity of her mother, though touching, surely cannot be unique among foundling children, I don't get how that uniquely makes her mother so impossible to comprehend to Sutekh that as a distraction it becomes his downfall. Let alone impart the power to conjure up the incident again in snow form upon Ruby.
Also, didn't the Doctor's memory of her pointing literally change? There were whole time shenanigans about her actions changing. It's so weird that I'm pretty sure in this episode he commented on it, but they seemed to forget that that was weird on its own.
The answer to the mystery box being "there was never a mystery box" just feels like wanting to have its cake and eat it, and it feels especially strange that the idea of her being so normal but also being a mystery confounded Sutekh. Why did he even care?
My assumption: Both the Doctor and Sutekh (by virtue of being wrapped around the TARDIS) witnessed the incident and the Doctor immediately assumed it was something important (due to the goblins) and I assume Sutekh picked up on that as well. Being immediately present gave the whole thing much more immediate impact to both of them which, coupled with Ruby's own attachment, made her mother special. A bit of a bootstrap paradox
@@tmage23 My complaint with that is that Sutekh surely wasn't bound solely to the Doctor's observations of events? He was physically present for Ruby Road, what was stopping ghosty-goo TARDIS haunting Sutekh from looking under her hood? He was able to conjure whole people just using the TARDIS' systems, what, he couldn't idly scan the surroundings and individuals in them?
Especially if the explanation for Ruby's snow thing was the influence of Sutekh's proximity to those events making them powerful or whatever. His grubby lil jackal mitts were all over that, why didn't he pick up on who Ruby's mother was if he was so influential there?
Very disappointed with that
I'm feeling a lot of that right now. Look, if something had happened to make that MOMENT important, that would've made it work. Honestly it felt like a strong letdown, but I am glad that her birth family and her adoptive family already look like they're getting along. I'm happy for her even if the mystery box fell apart.
Sutekh was just as invested in the mystery box as we are, that's all.
You can think of it as some kind of meta commentary.
The only thing that makes me think "that's cheating" is Ruby and the snow. If she's ordinary why does it snow?
12th Doctor: “Listen. Question. Why do we talk out loud when we know we're alone? Conjecture. Because we know we're not. It could be with us every second and we would never know. How would you detect it, even sense it, except in those moments when, for no clear reason you choose to speak aloud? What would such a creature want? What would it do? Well? What would you do?”
Nice call-back!
Ugh... they really didn't stick this landing. The set ups for Ruby's mystery and Susan totally didn't pay off.
IF Ruby was so normal, what was the snow? Why did all the other gods fear her without having any context of the mystery of her mother? Why bring up the 73 yards bit, in which future Ruby told others something that caused EVEN HER OWN MOTHER TO RUN AWAY, and then do nothing with it, making us anticipate a payoff or reveal that never came?
Why bait and switch us with Susan? That's not clever at all - it's just annoying.
There is so much in this episode that made no sense to me. That said, the woman with fading memories was a standout character and scene and one of the highlights of the season.
I really enjoyed the ending of the series and them following through and getting Ruby and her biological mother to meet in real life; as someone who was able through time to find my half-sister, who my mom gave up for adoption back in 1968, it truly gave me goosebumps and brought happy tears to my eyes.
I'm so happy you found your sister!
Sutekh's people are called Osirans (after Osiris) because calling them Ramen (after Ra) would be too silly.
that would be a bit noodly woodley ;o)
Added note: im stunned (not in a bad or good way just generally) that sutekh attaching to the tardis had NOTHING to do with the tardis splitting via the toymakers domain. Absolutely stunned. It seemed so logical. A massive recent tardis thing that happened associated with the gods. I still love that in reality, sutekh has been there since 1975
Agree... It almost feels like the Toymaker special and this Sutehk idea was conceived of two very different writers, a'la Snoke in the Star War sequels. Even Maestro mentioned "something" coming but... no?
Does that mean in the next multidoctor story, there is gonna be an awkward moment when past Sutekh clinging onto a past Doctor's tardis, looking over at 15's Sutekh-less tardis and realise that he will lose
He started the dust of death thing at all points in time the TARDIS was previously. So he might exist outside time, and maybe he got destroyed retroactively?
Also half-expected the parts of the universe that were lost in Thirteen's era (including Gallifrey?) to return.
Yes, I liked the ambiguity of "73 Yards."
That would have been a good idea to fix the flux, but I think it only worked to undo the deaths caused directly by Sutekh.
But yes, with all the magic and power of belief that solves everything in this new era solving the flux could have been like cure a cold.
@@DoctorMysterio15 heck with sutekh being a thing in the void, could they not just have said the flux was a weaponization of sutekh
I thought the ending was ridiculous tbh. There's no reason why Ruby can't keep traveling with the doctor.
Take a little time out to be with her new family sure, but they were very much acting like this had to be the end of their travelling together. Everyone manages their time between friends and family, travelling the world (or universe in Ruby's case) and spending time at home. It just seemed like a very forced end to their relationship.
The cleaning bill after Sutek's defeat must've been insane
“That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die.”
- H P Lovecraft
You’d have thought Suranne Jones would have said something about a stowaway god in the Neil Gaiman episode…
They put the giant doggie god of death on a leash! Then they took him for walkies! I'm dying! This was so damn beautiful. Also, hi Kipo!
I soooo wanted to love this, but do have a problem with the fact that every one that ever was or will be died and then returned absolutely aware that they had died, feels like that might have consequences, fecking huge consequences, also, the Dr and Ruby's relationship has been great, but him telling Ruby Road Sunday,(I am now assuming Road is her middle name), that she taught him about the value of family, isn't that what the latest Tennent doc is doing and isn't he a part of this Doctors past?
Im so frustrated at the reveal of Ruby's mother. I have no issue with her mom being normal, but it makes no sense why Sutekh was warded off by her or so invested in her. It didnt explain why Maestro was so shook and couldn't kill her. It doesn't explain why Ruby makes it snow.... Ruby's mother being in the pantheon made more sense. Maestro literally said that Ruby had power like "Him" (Sutekh). If they were going to have her mother be ordinary then they shouldn't have had all that extra stuff with Ruby. They had plenty of mystery boxes, they didn't have to do the snow or Ruby having special powers.
I'm actually so disappointed in the payoff of Ruby's mother after everyone spent so long theorizing. I loved how Sutekh got defeated but the really shitty payoff of everything else makes it almost unwatchable for me because I'm so heated. If the season hadn't been building it up so much then maybe I'd feel different.
I give you a short explanation, do with it, what you want: "the power of belief"
Personally my theory is that by destroying the time-travelling Goblins at that moment in that place made it a fixed point and that made everything that tries to affect Ruby or that moment go wonky. It's the only way the Mystery Box works at this point.
@@Philmaster07
I know the Doctor said it was because they gave her significance but...believing she's significant doesn't translate into Ruby having godlike powers. Maestro didn't gaf about Ruby or her mom... they had no significance to them. Maestro even said Ruby had some kind of power. And the mom shouldn't have significance to Sutekh, no more significance than the billions of other ordinary people he killed.
Also, Ruby didn't make it snow because of belief. She didn't even do it consciously. They didn't even mention the snow in that last sequence which shocked me.
Im fine with unanswered questions in DW in general, but when you've been building up three mystery boxes around Ruby (her mother, the snow, Ruby's abilities) and this is how you pay it off, it feels cheap. Makes me never want to take mysteries seriously again.
But thank you for responding and trying to help.
@@Tolly7249
Okay, i can get why that would have an effect on Sutekhs perception or whatever in that moment. Doesn't explain the scene with Maestro or the snow though... See we just have to do more theorizing now to figure it out, after spending 8 episodes theorizing.
But thank you, that place being a complex space-time event could at least lend itself to better attempts at explaining than "all this crazy stuff happened because she was ordinary and had significance".
Ruby's mother literally vanished after dropping off Ruby, and Maestro didn't explicitly said Ruby had some kind of power. So im just going to hope that the explanation the episode gave isn't the real explanation. I need to cope somehow 😂😭😭
I can't believe that a Tales Of The TARDIS episode actually mattered to Doctor Who proper.
Probably helped justify the budget for the set
Too bad only the UK gets to see it 😑
The Tales of the tardis are on youtube too.
No idea. My brain went to the Peter Cushing movie, but scroinced down. More homework I guess.
Mrs Flood’s final speech did remind me of Missy’s description of the Doctor in ‘World Enough and Time.’ Not speculating, just saying.
Mrs Flood called him "that clever boy" when they un-dusted, not making any guesses... just something I noticed that I havent seen people mentioning.
And pointed out in reddit that she has the same outfit as Clara...
I did notice that! Personally I'm leaning towards The Rani or Iris Wildthyme at this point.
@@Tolly7249 she can't be the Rani. She knew very well the doctor's Tardis, unless that was a facade for the audience, so that she breaks the fourth wall
@@RyuSDS88 My assumption was that she thought it was a real police box at first and only realized it was the TARDIS after it dematerialized.
my favorite line from the entire season.....when Ruby's bio mom said that they must all hate her for giving Ruby up.....Cherri Sunday's response, "There is NO hate in this house."
I wish every theist could be like Cherry Sunday. ❤
@@AxelWedstar411 Definitely know quite a few great polytheists. 😀
I forgot to return to your review from last week and post about something you brought up in the review. You mentioned how the Doctor didn't ask Rose about the 14th Doctor. He did, he just referred to him as her Uncle. He asked her, "How's your mum and your uncle." The uncle is the euphemism they're using for 14.
Def underwhelming finale. A little too deus ex machina even if that is kinda Dr who's way. It wasn't all bad, but it def is the lower end of episodes this season.
The whole ruby mystery being ordinary isn't bad in concept (I like it going in that direction), but it feels unearned. The mystery was deliberately designed to be more. To have the mom act and do things that any normal person wouldn't do isn't clever writing, it's just lying to your viewer. Like you said, her pointing at the sign just doesn't work. But also who wears a cloak like that? The snow and music, I can buy that being a side effect of Sutek's interference or something else, but the stuff that is just her acting abnormal is just intentionally misleading in a way that was never really justified.
I do hope we get Ruby back. She grew on me so much over the course of this season (it's hard following a return of such a beloved companion/Donna).
You're right that it's rushed. Like obviously the moment we see certain characters get dusted (it was Rose dying that really made it certain), it's clear things will get reversed. But maybe if we had sat in that reality for a bit longer, the easy fix wouldn't have bugged me as much. I did like the Drs reaction. I honestly don't think any Dr has been as effective as Ncuti Gatwa at making me feel the pain that he's feeling. The emotion that he conveys just hits so fucking hard *every time*.
You mean everyone doesn’t have a cloak in their closet for just these occasions?!
@@floraidh4097 of course I own a cloak. But I hold no illusions that that is normal haha
@JoshsBookishVoyage someone on tumblr pointed out that the doctor was dressed as the mother when he visited the woman with fading memory. They frame him from behind, it looks very similar.
Other theory is that the doctor lied about the pointing at the street sign. Why pointing when no one was there to see? Lies & deceptions. Didnt they already film two seasons? I think we'll get more info in the next series.
For mrs flood: i find it curious that she talks about golden gates of .. heaven presumably? Dont English speaking people use the frase pearly gates? Or something?
I really love how Sutekh couldn't kill the Doctor and Ruby because he was so invested in the mystery box that has nothing to do with him. It was a bit like, being a passenger on the TARDIS for so long, he became a spectator of the Doctor's aventures and he just wanted to know the mystery of the season before the cancellation of the show... I mean the timeline.
It felt a bit meta in a way, with Sutekh being just like any spectator of the show. Maybe ha has his own fantheories and he writes fanfics.
Yeah, but in his fanfics.... everyone dies. XD
@@eshbena Sutekh is George Martin confirmed.
Doctor Who has become it's own fanfic.
@@rudilator2178 always has been
I actually like mystery box plots occasionally, sometimes I even like anticlimaxes, found this one to be incredibly disappointing. I didn’t mind that ruby’s mystery box aspects interfered with the plot so much until I saw the ending and no real explanation was given for all the build up. I don’t mind the soft world building, it’s the dissonance between the 10 minute explanation we got at the end of the episode and the season long buildup. It was disproportionate to me.
I loved everything up till they dragged Sutekh into the Time Vortex.There, I kinda feel that wasn't done as well.
I also think the snow and the Trickster-like theming of the Church on Ruby Road could have wound up with Ruby making a Faustian bargain with the Trickster to help the Doctor defeat Sutekh, and add an uncomfortable/tragic element to the ending.
I don’t know how I feel about the episode, mainly cause as soon as Kate died I was like “oh, everyone’s gonna come back to life”
@@mujiescomedy279 Yes! I haven't seen anyone mention this yet. When Kate died, that killed any tension for me, because obviously it was all going to be undone.
My main issue with rubys mom is not that there was no twist. But that there is still a twist yet to be revealed and now shes leaving the tardis. Like weather her mom is a part of the mystery or not, ruby has been making it snow. Ruby scared off the maestro. Ruby created a branch timeline and we spent a whole episode in it. Rubys mom may be ordinary somehow, but that doesnt mean that ruby is. And we also know that susan twist was both a real person, and a mystery box. My biggest frustration is that so much of the season was hung on the mystery of whats the deal with ruby, it was an active element of the plot that did major things. And then at the last moment they tried to tell us that isnt the case.
Best case scenario were back in the moffat era of endless seasons driven by a singular mystery that never actually gets resolved, only leads into the next seasons mystery.
I was really enjoying this episode up until the end. The Doctor controlling the TARDIS with a whistle was a lot of fun. I like the solution of this episode and the idea of death of death creating life. I just didn’t not like the end. Though the sentiment that something is important because we ascribe it importance is nice, it feels like such a cop out. Her being just a regular person doesn’t make sense to me. Because then why didn’t Sutekh the name of anyone else who was in the same position as Ruby? I much rather would’ve prefered Ruby’s mom or even dad being some type of other member of the pantheon, making Ruby a demigod. And I’m really interested in seeing where the Mrs. Flood stuff goes. I’m glad they kept that open. And I am sorry to see the season end so fast. With the Doctor being in only the majority of 6/8 of the episodes, I feel like I barely know him. And while I love that we have a Doctor who is emotional, his crying every single episode really makes the whole crying thing less impactful.
The thing is that's not usually how it goes. The situations involved with having to give up a child often come with a lot of trauma that can complicate things. It's often happens because of a lack of access to abortion. In this case it was an abusive house hold. It is nice to see stories when it goes well, but for my wife and everything she's seen in her profession and her life it rang hollow and I can't help but agree.
My mom gave me up because she was a teenage mother. She was thrilled to hear from me when I contacted her as an adult. The good stories do outweigh the bad ones. It does go right more often than it goes wrong. Only 1-2% of adoptees trying to find their birth parents are rejected. So, I'm sorry for your wife, but it's not actually typical according to the statistics.
It will be interesting to see how they integrate Ruby in the next season. It was confirmed on the official Doctor Who Twitter account that Millie Gibson will be back as Ruby alongside Varada Sethu's new companion.
They showed a short preview clip on Unleashed of Ruby urging people to stay inside (looked like a bar or something) so I think its that some Earth threat will arrive and she takes the initiative and then the Doctor will swoop in and meet up with this friend - not dissimilar to how Martha made a guest in the Sontaran Stratagem. I'm guessing.
I'm starting to think that RTD enjoys playing with audience expectations more than writing scripts.
Ruby's mom pointing at the roadsign was like watching RTD jump out of a corner he painted himself into.
I'm sticking with the pre-2017 era, but I'm happy for those who love all generations of "Doctor Who."
You got this out FAST! You even beat Tharries lol
I think all the UK guys must be delayed due to being in the cinema
Lol I was like yes! A review. Just watched the episode.
Good, Tharries is a joke, he's so annoying.
@@JamFilledDonutYet another bit of special treatment the UK gets that we don't for no real reason, bah!!!!
@@lexruptor aw, i like tharries :(
17:39
I assumed Ruby's Mom was pointing at The Tardis to Suttech bc she could see he was on there and trying to warn The Doctor. This was prior to the reveal she was just a regular person.
Yeah I also didn't understand the pointing/name thing... also how was Ruby's mom fully on board with all the time travel/doctor stuff after one brief conversation? haha what?
but all in all I loved this season, and as someone who was adopted and has a pretty wild re-connection story, this episode/season hit close to home
No one saw her pointing when she left Ruby. She was placed at the door of the church and when the priest opened the door the mother was gone.
I know if i want to name something, I abruptly pull a 180 and dramatically point at something, which then becomes its name. That's why today, my dog is named Cereal Box.
@@RickReasonnz nice
We already know Ruby’s coming back, which makes this “goodbye” so odd
I think the fact that they filmed this before Millie Gibson agreed to do another season of Dr Who. Because I got a news feed article about 18 hours ago. This scene was probably filmed about 6 months ago when they didn't know.
@@WhitneyAllisonGGat least we now know why there were all the rumors that she's leaving. Bc she was supposed to
If Ruby is just normal, why was The Maestro afraid of her? Why does she make it snow? That was a colossal let down.
I'm not sure that story is as over as it seems.
@@PhilDrury good to know. So her normal life could be a misdirection. Like when Sarah Jane was fooled by the Trickster. She almost married a monster
@@PhilDruryso The Trickster could be involved.
I've a feeling that a few old demi-god or gods could turn up. Mrs Flood could be tied to the Land of Fiction. It's difficult to tell, RTD is such a master of misdirection, he should have a goatee or otherwise actually play the Master himself.
I was loving it until the last 15 minutes. The ending just felt so anticlimactic. I kept stopping it to see how much time was left, expecting them to do something with Susan.
but this was always the case with NewWho ^^ That is nearly the essence of it :D
I kept stopping it to see how much time was left every 10 minules. it was painfully sad to watch this trash compared to how good it used to be.
Russell knows what he is doing. Trust the story
Everything with sutekh, unit, the doctor, the remembered tardis, triad, dust... I loved so much, I can overlook the the deflation I felt watching the last 10 minutes with the pointing/snow stuff... And replace it with knowing what Russel meant by it as a writer. If it was the whole episode I'd have an issue. But as it's the last (extra) 10 minutes and the rest I loved, I'll grant Russel me putting myself in his shoes. 80% I loved. 19% deflated me. The 1% mrs flood ending is the doctor who shit I live and breathe for. That outfit? God. Iconic.
Didn't we get a clue that Mrs. Flood is Clara because she used the description "Clever Boy" to describe The Doctor?
However Clara doesn't age because she is caught between one heartbeat and the next after being extracted from her own fixed point of death in her timeline by the Doctor using an extraction chamber on Gallifrey.
I guess it could be a splinter Clara, like Oswin, etc., but that'd be pretty underwhelming.
As someone who has named a pet after a blvd, I don't know that stopping, spinning around , and pointing at the sign dramatically really works. Then again it was a blvd, maybe it's with roads.
I think that the significance of the sign is that yes, the church that found her named her after the Road, but Ruby never knew what (or if) her mother named her. It's comforting to know that her name matches her mother's wishes.
Was the wonderful actress who played the spoon bearer the same woman who played Fleabag’s sister?
Yes!
I loved it, Mrs. Flood is definitely a Time Lord and not a good one.
I think she might be The Rani.
@@hannahbrennan2131bbc does not own the rights to the Rani, so it’s unlikely.
Honestly with the umbrella and bag she was giving me Missy vibes.
@@katrose5179 Maybe she's Missy then.
@@katrose5179 Maybe that's why she's stayed so vague, so they can have time to acquire the rights. I don't think so personally, given the Rani's previous characterizations, but the rights issues don't rule her out entirely. RTD didn't have the rights for the Daleks until later into production on the first series in 2005, so he had another alien in place of the Dalek at first for episode 6.
Instead of "I Love you", Ruby should have said, 'Now go find Rogue". She wasn't mature enough for that, I guess.
I thought they would bring him back (talk about him, I mean). Very disappointing.
as soon as you mentioned the next episode being christmas, makes me wonder...
i still dont understand Ruby's mother not being visible, even more so the fact that Sutekh was actually there. however with the pointing, that didnt actually happen when the Doctor was there did it? only when he remembered that moment did the memory change? is that right? dont know what to take from that though.
funny how discovery ended with a room of nostalgia, and so did this. but this one made so much more sense and fully contributed to the story. i still liked seeing it in disco, but this really seemed to me that it was done right.
when he was talking about the planets, i was sure one of the times he was going to mention Raxacoricofallapatorius or at least Clom. probably not in the first list as it wouldnt have suited the tone. although when he named some years, i was saying out loud 'and 2005... ok now, and 2005', i didnt quite understand why 1999 though, was expecting 1996 until i checked when the movie was set, glad i understood the reference though.
i think my two biggest issues with this episode,
-so much life throughout the universe turning to dust, felt overly familiar.
-when Kate died, it actually felt real, until it spread to the rest of Earth at which point we already knew she would be saved. part of the problem with things always being on such a large scale, it actually undermines the potential consequences.
as always, love your videos, always cant wait for your reviews!
Couldn't Carla just have named her Ruby after where she was found? I'm so with you about the magic pointing.
I thought it had already been mentioned that she was named after the road she was found on. Perhaps I imagined it!
It made no sense anyway, nobody witnessed her pointing at the sign.
@@dogblessamerica Yes, why wouldn't Carla have named her? She adopted her, from what I understand. Ruby has her last name. And then the storyteller comes out at the end.
Two things:
A. Is The Doctor the God of Life now?
B. If The Doctor undid death, everywhere, and undid the Flux somehow, idk how people think that, it's not at all what happened, but if so, then... Is Gallifrey back again?
I mean, Gallifrey was butchered by the Master, and then blown up with a Death Particle, if The Doctor undid death then...??? 🤨
@@lexruptor Alive. Dead. Realived. Redeaded. Gallifrey is just pure chaos pretending to be orderly it seems.
@@arubinojr5670 "Pure chaos pretending to be orderly". Just perfect.
It's Schrödinger's planet.
I'm typically very forgiving for hand-wavey timey wimey, but I would have much rather Sutekh only having latched on in WBY. That makes sense to me, coming back from the time vortex at the edge of reality. It seems like the only reason to make him having been there all along is so the scale of the planets affected could be greater. And when you know immediately that EVERYTHING is going to be undone because of everyone dying immediately... The scale doesn't do too much for me.
completely agree, when everyone dies at the beginning of the episode you just know everything will be fine again in half an hour. and lo and behold!
Your cat was disappointed that there werent other Osirians/gods like Sekhmet of Bastet.
Tales of the tardis were made after the season was filmed. The remember tardis was created for this episode. They needed something else for the 60th, so they slapped together the first 6 episode's for the celebration!
First off, I'M SO EXCITED FOR IDENTITEAZE!!!! Second, I read the whole "pointing at the name" thing as the Doctor and Ruby doing exactly what Kate described in 73 Yards, making up the meaning to fit random facts. It's also worth remembering that the pointing wasn't in the original scene in Church on Ruby Road, the memory was changed during (I think?) Space Babies. I loved the connections between time and memory, plus extra smug mode, because I spotted the Memory TARDIS being created in the Time Window last episode (pauses for smug dance). Good luck with your primiere!!!!
6.01 - I’m super distracted by and invested in your cat right now.
You're right, doesn't fix 73 Yards for me. Because there is still the main question why the timeloop even happened, even more so now we know Roger ap Gwilliam was not actually stopped from becoming MP, Ruby doing so apparently never happened.
Sutekh: I think he will stand as a great example of the advantages of the Old Who serials as opposed to New Who episodes. One episode plus a few minutes failed to make much of Sutekh, I feel a threat this significant needed more time on screen. Also, his voice effect made it so I had to switch on subtitles, which didn't help.
Loved the after-ending, but there really was no reason for Ruby to leave in-universe. Not after Amy and Clara both had full lives at home while travelling.
What does this mean for when Rose looked into the Time Vortex? Shouldn't Sutekh have taken her over then?
That was inside the heart of the TARDIS, which 15 whistled to, so not the same as the outer plasmic shell.
Why? Sutekh was out of the vortex already. And why would he choose to go in a random human rather than latch onto the tardis. The vortex wasn't completely sucked into rose.
It sure was an RTD Doctor Who finale.
It's great in exactly the ways his finales tended to be great from 2005 through 2009 and uninteresting in exactly the ways his finales tended to be uninteresting from 2005 through 2009 - Loved the _emotions_ of it all, but the stakes were far too high for me to think any consequences were going to stick so the narrative part of it was treading water for me until the conclusion. (And... I get it. Sometimes the threat is of a level where that's the only logical way of writing the thing. But I definitely prefer stories where the actual stakes are small enough that the work could continue if the heroes lost, allowing for narrative tension to exist - Both when writing them and reading/watching them, even as someone who's written some of them myself)
10/10 build-up to an 8/10 finale for me. As I said. It sure was an RTD Doctor Who finale.
(I... Think the latest Tales of the TARDIS is canon considering Gatwa and Gibson are in the same costumes they're in while talking in the Memory TARDIS here, and the set is clearly large enough that Mel could be off to one side as she is for most of the Gatwa and Gibson scenes within the Memory TARDIS.)
The only thing that didn't work for me was the pointing. Who was she pointing for? Why was she being so dramatic with the gesture? It didn't really make sense in context.
just a normal thing to do when you're 15 years old, you put on your giant cloak and point at signs in front of nobody.
I'm pretty sure Ruby is actually coming back for next season, she was cast in season '2' ages ago!
Spoilers Ahead:
The Doctor got to fulfill the ultimate fantasy: screaming into the void 🤭 Taking the bad doggie for a walk was sufficiently silly and fun PLUS Rian Johnson is vidicated! Much like Rey, Ruby's parents are no one special and that's ok- great even.
I feel a little "what are we doing here?" with Mrs Flood. All her stuff has just felt unnecessary but I guess I'm just not particurly intrigued plus the ending was like "ohohhoho The Doctor is in danger" and like we still doing that? It's been 60 years unless it's a meta reference to the BBC looking to cancel the show. Saying Sutekh has been on the TARDIS what has to be like THOUSANDS(?) OF YEARS kinda, well, things like that don't tend to hold up to scrutiny if you think too hard about it.
Season definitely not long enough and Rogue remains the best of the season.
Everyone being important is something the Doctor has mentioned before. I like it, Johnson was right and the theme was why I loved Last Jedi.
Also, I am normally not big on a Doctor getting romantic but I can't wait to see Groff again.
It seems to me that Harold Saxon was the "most dangerous Prime Minister in history" for reals not Roger ap Gwilliam. It irks me. It irks me so much that it feels like it could be possible Spoilers.
technically, harold saxon was mainly only prime minister in the year that never was , i think he only had maybe a few days or weeks before that happened
Strangly, The point while stupid is passable for me. The snow however just drives me bonkers, Like even in the ep before this they exclaimed how impossible it was.
My issue with it is that RTD gave Ruby superpowers and didn't explain why she had them. *Thinking* her adoptive mother is superhuman shouldn't make her superhuman. It's ridiculous. If you're going to set something up, give it a satisfying payoff!
LOVED this finale! Jaw dropped for the first fifteen or so minutes, and I stayed riveted throughout. I love how proactive Mel was in the episode, especially given how she was treated in some of her original stories. I want to see her come back more going forward! I liked the idea of Sutekh evolving while clinging to the TARDIS all those years, and the Doctor actually taking the moment to express his frustration, and accepting that he did cause what happened, however inadvertently. So often the Doctor doesn't face the consequences of visiting a planet, upending things, and hopping along to the next place. The delivery of "I thought it was fun" followed by that scream... chills and tears.
I liked that the mystery box was subverted, at least partially. Ruby's mom was important because they made her important. She was important to Ruby, who was important to the Doctor, and thus the mystery of her birth mother became a lynchpin for the defeat of Sutekh not because of anything special about her, but because Sutekh NEEDED to know in order to have his full revenge. Ruby dropping the screen and smashing it was brilliant.
That ending was so bittersweet! Ruby's back for part of next season, but she gets time to herself. The Doctor putting on a brave face for her, then letting his guard down to express his sadness after she'd shut the door made me tear up again. I love, love, love that he gets to be seen expressing his emotions.
Now I just have to go back and watch the whole season to pick up on the details I missed!
Fun fact Suetekh being attached to the TARDIS is the cause of the purple sparks in the intro
(it's always nice to watch your reviews)
what about when 15 duplicated the tardis after the doctors defeated the toymaker? there is 2 sutekh? 🤔
I think that RTD confirmed that 15's TARDIS was the "same" one. I have taken that to mean everything 14 does with his TARDIS has already happened to 15s TARDIS; much like everything 14 is yet to do in his quiet life with Donna has already happened to 15. I don't think there are two Sutekhs any more than there are two Sutekhs when two versions of the Doctor are together at any point since he first latched on. He just waited through 14s life as well.
I’m sure someone mentioned this but classic DW including Pyramids of Mars can be streamed free on TUBI. As a Tom Baker fan, I consider it one of the very strongest of his considerably great run.
So the dialogue of this episode has convinced me that Mrs Flood _definitely isn't_ Iris Wildthyme now. Instead I'm leaning towards The Rani. Also wondering if the name of Ruby's birth mother was an allusion to Big Finish' Lucy Millar?
Considering the 7th Doctor played the spoons I thought it would have been good if the spoon was found in the Memory TARDIS.
When the spoon showed up, I was 100% hoping for some Seventh Doctor spoon-playing. Or at least a reference to it. (But then Seven is my Doctor, so...)
Did we just witness a retcon??
Everything is connected, past, present, and what's to be. All of the adventures, and places the Doctor & the Tardis went. They were gifted another chance. Including some old friends
@@kadosho02On Doctor Who? Never!
Props of getting this out so quickly! And your cat is adorable btw :)
I'm still gathering my thoughts, but overall, I'm a bit split on this finale. On the one hand, I did like that Ruby's parents were actually just normal humans, but on the the other hand, it seems like a bit of a cop out. I mean, I can buy the bit about Sutekh only believing her mum was important because Ruby and the Doctor believed as much... But, we were shown certain elements throughout the entire season that have to do with Ruby's very nature or origins (things like the snow, the carol song, the Doctor's memory of that night changing etc), which were meant to lead us to believe that she wasn't exactly a normal human.. And those things were never actually explained, which is a bit disappointing.
We did get a few mentions of 73 Yards, more than I was expecting tbh, but.. They didn't exactly make this better, since again, it wasn't actually explained or important to the overall mystery. Like, it's cool that the TARDIS perception filter apparently works from that same distance, and nice touch that Ruby sort-of remembers what happened to her in the alternate timeline, but it wasn't actually important and didn't lead to anything in the end.
I thought the Memory TARDIS being used and explained some more was very cool, and I also liked the idea of Sutekh latching onto the TARDIS all the way back in the 4th Doctor's era and being around for this entire time. I also loved the apocalyptic vibe of the episode, seeing the universe destroyed again was very reminiscent of Flux, but in a very cool way.. I especially liked the sequence with Mel, and the idea of memory itself dying; and also loved the Doctor's reaction to the death wave and his scene with the random kind lady.
However, as you've said, I do wish the solution in the end, was a bit better than just... Dragging Sutekh through the time vortex with a bit of rope. Like, I'm not really sure how or why that even worked lol. I don't have a problem with it being silly solution, as it is DW after all.. But I mean, in the internal logic of the show itself, what even made the Doctor realise that it would work? Or, if he knew all along that it could, why did he need to wait so long until so many planets were destroyed before trying it? It seemed like a bit of an oversight. Script-wise, it was a last-minute solution that reminded me of the Last of the Time Lords ending, which I think we all know is considered RTD's worse for a reason. It seems like whenever RTD gives us very high stakes, he forgets to think of a way out and consider an actual solution until the very last second, and then there's not enough screen time left to actually construct one that makes sense within the narrative, so he just finds the quickest easy fix he can and sticks with it.
I liked the idea of an ending scene with the Doctor and Ruby, but honestly, the season wasn't long enough and didn't give us enough of them together, for me to buy that they have such a deep, unbreakable bond. It made their goodbye feel a bit overdramatic, but IDK.. maybe it's just me. I am happy that Ruby is coming back for S2, cause I do like Millie and her dynamic and chemistry with Ncuti, I just could have honestly done without the scene of them saying goodbye, or maybe replaced it with a more lighthearted one where they just decide that Ruby should have a break and stay with her family for a while.
Basically, I loved the vibe of the episode, I liked a lot of the character moments we got, the acting and emotional stakes.. But the script itself in terms of the mystery and overall plot, was a bit of a let down sadly.
I enjoyed everything after sutekh was defeated, but I checked out on the main storyline after it became extremely clear that a reset button was coming
@Jessie Gender You mentioned wanting to watch the old Pyramids of Mars episode. The BBC re-released it last week as episode 7 of Tales of the Tardis. It is bookended by Ruby and the Doctor in the Memory Tardis. I posted a link in your patron discord.
"Rogue" didn't have snow either...
They’ve confirmed that Ruby is back in the next season and even showed a clip in this week’s episode of Doctor Who Unleashed (which I guess you don’t get in the US?).
Shouldn’t there now be two Sutehks, on the account of there being two tardis?
Hmm might not necessarily make sense with the play logic of getting the second tardis since that was the games prize
Unfortunately, I think the Star Wars sequels ruined the concept that a mysterious, powerful person can really just have ordinary origins. Because episode viii said Rey’s parents were ordinary…then episode ix told us that one of Rey’s parents were secretly Palpatine’s kid. Anyone who watched the sequels is set up to not trust that the resolution to the mystery of someone’s origins could really be “there’s no mystery.”
And honestly, episode viii kinda explain Rey’s power with the force despite her parents ordinary-ness (that anyone, regardless of their parentage, can be strong in the force, because the Force does what the Force wishes).
All season, Ruby has been making it snow indoors and freaking out gods with special she is. Her mum’s face was hidden from powerful beings. She basically comes back to life without clear explanation. Things become special because people think they are special and snow represents hope feel like really thin explanations to me.
Two nitpicks. 1 What teen w a baby has a CLOAK in the early 2000s 😂
2 Amy, Rory, River, Yaz & FAM, Donna etc but Ruby made the Doctor consider family. 🤨
Cloaks were around quite a bit in the 90s to early 00s for the non-preppy kids. I was there lol
I do t like how easy he was to defeat and I’m not on board with the explanation of Ruby’s mum. Though Sutekh immediately killing as much life as he can is very in character with his appearance in pyramids of mars, it’s implied that when he gets free he will end all life on earth as soon as he can.
Glad that you liked the episode. I was definitely entertained, but more a mixed bag for me. There's so many things about this episode I like: using memories as a way to combat death; the Doctor being the person who brings life; the idea that an ordinary person can defeat a god, among other things. The acting was also top-notch.
But the defeat of Sutekh just seemed far too easy, and Ruby's mother reveal just didn't quite work for me. I actually like that she is a regular human being, but that leaves so many questions unanswered: why the weird cloak?, how did Ruby manifest the snow?, why did the hidden song in Ruby's heart scare the Maestro?, why did the mother stutter/move fast in the time window?, how did the memory keep changing?, how was Ruby's mother literally the only thing in all of time and space beyond Sutekh's comprehension? (that is more than just being "important").
The ambiguity of 73 Yards really works for me, but this is the mystery box of the entire season, I needed a bit more. I was thinking that maybe as a byproduct of Sutekh using the Doctor's memories of Susan to trap him, it also amplified Ruby's memories, but that's just my speculation. That would make more sense to me, that Ruby's mom herself is not important, it's Ruby's memory of her mom that matters, because it's a memory that will not die.
Overall, really enjoyed this season though, despite it being much too short.
So, Ruby’s mother was pointing ominously at The Doctor and the TARDIS because she was pointing to the lamppost with the road sign behind it that said Ruby Road. Supposedly, she was pointing at it to name her daughter Ruby. But how in the f*ck did the people who found her know that?! Ruby said she assumed she was named after the road by the priest or the paramedics or social workers or something ‘but this whole time it was my mum.’ 🤨 She didn’t speak to anybody and she didn’t leave a note!!!! Pointing to a goddamn sign while standing on an empty street does not magically transform into a name that people will just automatically know is her name!!! Basically, Russell wanted to throw everyone off and make us think she was some kind of sinister villain through her actions, but SURPRISE!!! She’s totally ordinary! In fact Ruby’s mother is SO ordinary, that she’s the most important person in the universe and that’s why no one could see her! F*ck that! What the hell, Russell??!!! 😤 I did like the reunion between Ruby and her mother and the moments with them with Ruby’s adoptive mother and grandmother though. 💚
My cat Seska felt the same way as she left my lap about a quarter of the way into the episode 😂
Davies won't bring Gallifrey back. He wants the Doctor to be the "last"
...even though he keeps bringing back the Master
Ascension - reminds me of Stargate. Also, the "clever boy" reference by Mrs. Flood reminded me of Clara. Just a thought. Mixed on the episode.
Loved this ep! Godamn RTD and Murray Gold making me cry - multiple times!
Some explanation about Ruby's mom pointing the sign. It was a changed memory. Check Space Babies.
For me it's more of a symbolic thing rather than an actual event that happened. Ruby's birth mother chose a specific road to name her daughter.
Has RTD just pressed his biggest reset button ever by basically taking the dog for a walk?
In theory the Doctor has reset the universe AGAIN, So gallifrey in theory should be back
All the universe lost in the Flux back. All done in such a subtle way it can be explained away in one throwaway sentence = Thanks Chibs but no thanks. This would be the perfect way of RTD having scope to open up stories closed, It's a Given the Master is back
I was waiting to hear Gallifrey mentioned, that was surprising not to hear given how many times it's been locked away then unlocked then destroyed then magically back again then disappeared again rinse and repeat 🤦
Thanks for your perspective. I really liked the episode too. I've been surprised how many folks didn't, so it was nice to hear what you liked about it. I've enjoyed he whole season and am looking forward to more. Ruby is coming back next season, there is a little clip of RTD saying that. American here also, but with a VPN I've been able to watch Doctor Who Unleashed, which has a lot of great info and behind the scenes stuff.
I really love the interpretation that when Sarah Jane saw Sutekh in the Tardis that was actually him latching onto it. It makes so much sense but also turns his defeat into a nice time loop. Think about it, if he hadn’t done that the Doctor wouldn’t have been drawn into his escape and defeated him.
Agree on this. I did think that pointing at Ruby Road was mildly wonky but I am generally okay with it - if we accept all the weird magic stuff going on and how the mother was imbued with power then that power could go back retroactively and allow her pointing to name the kid. And in magic, names have power. Loved it and that ending was great - sad but not tear jerking because it didn’t have to be. Saying goodbye to Ruby is okay - because she is leaving to have the adventure of her life with the important people.
Season as a whole - I wanted more episodes and I wanted those episodes to have Ruby’s adopted family around more. I like that dynamic, I like those actors and I liked the stuff with them. I almost wish for a “Love and Monsters”with them. But that wasn’t in the cards.
Ncuti Gatwa NAILED the Doctor from scene one onward. Loved him.
Millie Gibson was perfect as Ruby. Same as above for her.
Pretty much my only problem with this entire season is I would have liked another 2 or 3 episodes.
I guess that means 73 Yards was really Suketh trying to get Ruby to find her mother using the Tardis but also foreshadowing the finale's resolution
This was an awesome conclusion to the terrific buildup we got last week. We even got the guy back who disappeared after walking behind the remembered TARDIS.
I figured Sutekh was from Pyramids of Mars from the thumbnails I saw last week.
Tom Baker always was MY Doctor but I think I left the series about halfway through that story back in the day.
I did appreciate the flashback as the Doctor did his own research.
I thought everything was all handled really well, but I don't get the pointing at the street sign thing either.
I liked the idea that things are important because we think they are important.
Also that the dead live on as long as they're remembered. Memory gives meaning to everything.
The spoon felt iconic, if only as an avatar for the mother and child relationship that was fading.
It all felt really nice.
I really appreciated the callbacks to 73 Yards because I just can't stop thinking about that one. I really do think it's my favorite episode of the season.
Yeah, I heard the explanation about the TARDIS's defensive barrier, but still no explanation of why it's 73 yards.
I mean I do understand why 42 is the answer to life, the universe and everything, but 73 yards is still a mystery to me.
This season was just wonderful, but entirely too short. It was just getting Really Good.
I liked that ending on a note of "terror," considering that ever since the very first episodes of Doctor Who kids have been hiding behind the couch when that spooky music comes on.
I liked the fact that it only gave us a slight explanation to 73 Yards. Because the beauty of that episode was it didn't wrap up the mystery neatly. Something we don't see much in DW.
I had a big issue with this episode. I'll start by saying, as a plot device, I don't know how I feel about reset buttons (I think I lean towards not liking them). But, I do think you have some ground work or build up to it. And that's where my gripe comes in. In the first minute of the episode, Sutekh kills the entire UNIT cast (outside of the Doctor & Ruby, the closest thing this series has to leads). In doing so, RTD so blatantly telegraphed he's doing a reset button. So, I spent the rest of the episode going, "you're going to undo all of this, so why should I care?"
Exactly my feels, especially when Rose was one of the people who died. They're not going to kill Donna's daughter just like that.
Pretty poor imo, and I was really invested after last week's build up, which I really enjoyed.
What was the scene where the Doctor was given the spoon all about? Where was that and what was the significance of the woman (and the spoon?)
What was the comment about "cultural appropriation" about? Were they referring to the classic serial which they were viewing on the screen? Or did they mean that Sutekh himself committed cultural appropriation in his Egyptian-style presentation?
What was the business with the "Ruby Road" sign? Hadn't it already been established that Ruby was named after the place she was found?
I've a feeling that Vera is going to be mad as hell about this episode, especially since she, like me, was drawn in by part 1...
Although Ruby got sent off in a nice (not death or traumatic) way, I am still really gutted she's gone. Enjoyed Millie Gibson a hell of a lot. I'm sure she's going to have a great career in the future and will be a name to check out.
Don't be too sad just yet.
Loved seeing things through your point of view. And hope the premiere next week goes great!😊❤🎉
On to the episode.
I had a similar feeling about the speed of the episode, only a lot worse. I loved the various concepts. Sutekh on top of the tardis. Ascending to godhood. Manifesting his harbingers across time and space. All of that's awesome. And I loved that epilogue, it felt incredibly sweet...
But everything envolving the actual story and the main plot just felt so rushed... not only did I start not to care, I felt annoyed and slightly cheated. I felt like it needed a three part episode, instead of one and a half... I didn't like it. At all. It went by so fast that by the time Ruby was dealing with her mom, I had to make an effort to connect. (And I thought the way they did that part was lovely)
I don't know why, but I felt like the storytelling rhythm was a mess. Fast where I needed it slow. And then the slow parts in comparison felt really weird.
Again, loved the ideas, loved the ending. But nothing felt earned to me. It was just like name-dropping Sutekh... "ok... and I should care because..."
The set up wasn't there for me... And after a masterclass in exposition like Dot and Bubble, this just felt clumsy to me.
I get that most people will like it, and that's fine. I just didn't.
Anyway, always love listening to your reviews😊
Hope everything goes great!