Three very practical and fairly simple improvements Peter, so thanks for that, it's much improved already ! I somehow got the feeling this would be too good an opportunity to miss, a mini series of content which we'll all want to follow ! One advantage to having a RUclips channel, even a slightly disappointing purchase can turn into great content !
Thank you for not giving up on that table and its owners, Peter. If you find a solution for the extruded outer frame in the future, you would be my hero.
Just thinking about this same problem. It look's a good table except for that. You could possibly machine a piece of hardwood say 40 - 50 mm wide by whatever the depth of leg/frame offset. It's hard to tell depth from this video but looks to be 15 - 20 mm max? Then with a t track router bit cut a t slot in the hardwood or even embed some aluminium t track which accepts the festool type clamps into said hardwood strip. ( This could possibly be self tap screwed from the inside or front or maybe just glued with epoxy resin ) Could do it on the rear also? I personally only seem to use the front of the mft I have for clamping boards to shoot up with the jack plane, not much else.
Simple modification makes the bench fare more versatile. I am sure that those who work from the back of their van, this is a good option. Some work sites are not the best place for very expensive tools, so to have options. Less attractive to van clearance, that so many suffer. Great video.
Regarding 20mm router cutter which is slightly smaller. Anyone looking to get this cutter buy a 20mm and get it sharpened, works very well. Nice info as usual Peter
Saved by the Peter!!!! Strikes me you could do something similar to an MFT to eliminate the front hinge with a Stanton rail clip. One may want to camper the bottom holes on their MFT table a bit as well to make putting the regular clamps on easier. Not much, just a little bit like we do on the top.
I chamfered both the top & bottom of my MFTs, and am pleased with the results (I chamfered the bottom for when - not if - I flip the top). My preferred tool for this job is the UJK Chamfer & Reamer tool. This fairly inexpensive tool (a “drill bit” actually) produces great results. It’s also useful for refreshing dog holes that have caught glue squeezings, or that might have swelled with humidity (a reason why I treat all of my MFTs with a hard wax oil before using them).
@@G.I.JeffsWorkbench Good ideas. I'll have to do that my next maintenance cycle. I used a 45 degree round over bit for the top., the extension table, and my drill press table.
I just realized to router the center out you can slide against the flat side of the router base after cutting to width on the round side, instead of moving the guide.
Looks good. Will have to take a look at these and mod as you show. One thing that occured to me was that if you cut the sacrificial strip first, you could use that to space off the track for the two cuts to get an accurate fit
Thanks! 20-odd years of cutting stuff up and making it fit has convinced me that it's infinitely easier to cut a hole first, then make the thing to fit into it, rather than the other way around. 👍
Hi Peter, a great modification to your Wolfcraft MFT very useful and rounding off the dog holes for the clamps make job's a lot easier, good tip . As always a great video, Take care
Wonderful mods to the Wolfcraft MFT. Leave it to you to figure out these straightforward improvements. Perhaps the Wolfcraft engineers are watching this - and taking these mods to heart. I’m still scratching my head at how Wolfcraft could have released something with such obvious flaws. I’m wondering how feasible it would be to replace the edge material with 80/20 extruded aluminum strips? Of course all of these mods add to the total price, cutting into the actual savings compared to just buying Festool’s MFT.
Thing is, once you are knocking the side rails off, you are pretty close to just building your own table. There is a huge amount of margin in an MFT (well, in terms of cost of components, I am sure shipping is a major cost for guys like festool and wolfcraft). but just to break it down, a typical MFT is at least a few hundred. you can get 1020 aluminum perimeter rails for 100 US. I don't know MFT top prices globally, but you can get them in Canada pretty easily for 170 Canadian, which is about 100 pounds sterling. Then you just need legs. Amazon has a number of suitable brackets, and you could just use dimensional lumber. I would say depending on what you do for legs, you are probably between 35 and 200 dollars. More if you want extreme weight savings. Really, you could easily build a MFT using off the shelf components for $300-$400 US, if you are willing to put in a little sweat equity to assemble.
I've got the 2600 from Wolfcraft. You can use it as a table saw or router table with interchangeable inserts. I'm considering getting this one too and would really love to see what you can do with this table!
Thanks for sharing Peter, looking forward to thanking you in person at Makers Central in May (🤞) for all your vlogs of which help and educate me personally 👍
Peter, I love your videos, the only thing that makes me a little sad is that to get some accessories here in Brazil it is very difficult, import taxes are high (I know it's a local problem), the only way is to improvise, I am very grateful for your videos and ideas. A big hug
Peter, I've got the older master cut 2500 which has the insert plate in it. (I believe there is a newer 2600 version now on the market). However, what I have found is that the dog holes appear to be more like 19mm rather than the standard 20mm. Is there any way to accurately increase the holes to 20mm as the Axminster bench dogs I have are so snug that I can't seat them in the holes properly (presumably as they are 20mm dogs) any thoughts on how to do this as then I'd love to do the extra quick fixes you've shown in this video to get the workbench to a much better state.
That's interesting; presumably for 3/4" dogs rather than standard 20mm? The only way I can think to do that accurately would be with an MFT jig - though that would need to be moved around a lot because of the 96 vs 128mm hole spacing - or perhaps my new MultiJig, that will fit with the 128mm spacing. You'd have to set the jig up with a dog that fits the hole in the benchtop and is also has a 30mm head - or a collar - to locate it precisely, then clamp the jig and remove the locating dog to bore out the hole with a 20mm bit. A bit of a faff, but you'd end up with something more usable. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop I got lucky the UJK reamer bit did the job really well to increase the dog holes to the standard 20mm, would love to find a way to add some extrusions to the sides of table. I noticed on the wolfcraft website they do mounting blocks which clip into the frame, did any come with your table? And if so do you think these could be used in any form?
Thank you for the very informative video. Of course i also watched the introduction video of the Wolfcraft MFT. Perhaps it would be possible to make a comparison with the new competitor from Metabo, the MWB 100, which is priced at the same level.
@@10MinuteWorkshop thanks for the reply thanks to your inspiration, i have built a MFT with Ikea rails for my small workshop in the basement I might buy a mobile table for use in the garden so I am looking forward to your opinion on the Metabo MFT
I guess that I am too old school. I am using a pair of Black and Decker Workmates (WM125), a pair of 2x4 studs and a variety of "C" clamps. Of course I am not buiding fine furniture .... just home DIY projects. By the way: you ghave a large workshop. I have to cram everything into a 8 x 12 foot utility room (along with a washer and dryer). I do have the advantage of being able to move things out under my carport (in favorable weather).
«Just» another great video from the 10MWS - And those jigs looks very interesting and promising.. 😉 Have you bu the way looked into the Triton work/MFT table?
Thanks! Triton is a different animal - much more intended to be used with the extra tool ‘inserts’ and not for eg crosscutting. Suffers from ‘extrusion confusion’ as well though they at least have t-track in the sides. 👍
I've tried a number of 20 mm router bits (Festool, ENT, etc), but they all make a hole that is either slightly too loose or slightly too tight. If you manage to come up with a Goldilocks bit that is just right, I'd be first in line to buy one.
I’ve made a top using a 20mm Bosch Forstner bit which produces holes the right size. The challenge is keeping the drill vertical. A router that runs at around 300rpm would be useful for use with the Forstner.
@@10MinuteWorkshop Do you think the loosenes is caused by a slight wobble of the router bit? Once your bits are ready, I would appreciate a video of you trying it out with different routers to see if there is a difference and different dogs. Especially the rather common chamfered ones like the ones from Benchdogs and UJK
Wolfcraft might have to have the dog holes in different spacing to avoid a lawsuit? I spotted a railhinge on banggood a while ago. Might be worth a test Peter?
Fantastic news from you Peter. If u can manage to keep the price reasonable you will corner the market , and blow parf guide and trends mft jig out of the water....with their respective daft prices.
Hey Peter, at risk of missing something obvious and asking a stupid question, as this is a portable table and not supposed to be fixed anywhere, couldn't you just rotate it 90 degrees to get a 690ish cross cut from the distance between 7 holes on the other axis as opposed to enforcing the self imposed limit of 5 width ways?
Yes, I do say this in the original video, the downside of using it in ‘portrait’ mode is that lack of support for the workpiece either side of the cut. 👍
I'm a beginner and I am confused by the number of different ways that cross cuts can be made using a track and a table. Can someone who has experience comment on the pros and cons of the different options? Here are 5 methods I have seen demonstrated; there may be others and I may have misunderstood what I have seen. 1) Position 3 or more bench dogs so they make a right triangle. Place a reference edge of the work piece against two of the dogs, and position the track on top of the work piece at right angles to the reference edge using another two of the dogs. 2) Place the reference edge of the work piece against a fence that in turn is positioned against dogs. Position the track using dogs as before. 3) Place a reference edge of the work piece against any two bench dogs as before, but use a rail square placed against the reference edge of the work piece, rather than dogs, to position the track at right angles. 4) Install the track on a hinge. Dogs are used to position the work piece, but not the track. 5) Position the work piece as before. Buy special dogs that install in the slot on the underside of the track using a t-track bolt. Position the track by placing those dogs in 2 holes in the table. I haven't tried any of these methods and am unsure where to start. Can anyone help?
This video - Square cuts: MFT or Rail Square? [video 422][Gifted/Ad**] ruclips.net/video/3C8XSWliOys/видео.html - covers the basics. There’s a whole playlist dedicated to this style of bench, links in the video description. 👍
If you use a rail hinge or the two tall Benchdogs approach, then the cut line is always going to be in the same place; the sacrificial strip extends the life of the top. 👍
one can't help thinking it is a bit like flogging a dead horse, MFT tables come up second hand all the time and if you want an MFT you are probably capable of making a frame and legs for a replacement MFT top,
Don't know where you live but there are three MFTs on eBay right now, one an ancient MFT 800 and a couple of MFT/3s. That's more than I've seen ever - too me a couple of years of diligent searching before I turned up an MFT1080.
From the video description: Americans, please note that Wolfcraft do not have formal U.S. distribution, any item you see on Amazon.com is there by a third party and does not reflect OEM pricing in the UK/EU**
Not a picnic table, but a costly set of folding legs, yes. Still have the price of an MFT basic with the top changed, and folding leg sets are costly, which is why I made my own when I was making my mobile benches. 👍
![Quick, cheap & easy router guiderail fix [video 569]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zzbS0yObBhk/mqdefault.jpg)
![Quick, cheap & easy router guiderail fix [video 569]](/img/tr.png)
![3 MFT Tops, 3 MFT jigs [Video 498]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/9DhLQPrjnik/mqdefault.jpg)
Three very practical and fairly simple improvements Peter, so thanks for that, it's much improved already !
I somehow got the feeling this would be too good an opportunity to miss, a mini series of content which we'll all want to follow ! One advantage to having a RUclips channel, even a slightly disappointing purchase can turn into great content !
Thanks! And very true! 😂👍
Thank you for not giving up on that table and its owners, Peter. If you find a solution for the extruded outer frame in the future, you would be my hero.
Thank you! There’s a couple of options in the pipeline, lots more to come on this! 👍👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop likewise! looking forward to it
Just thinking about this same problem. It look's a good table except for that. You could possibly machine a piece of hardwood say 40 - 50 mm wide by whatever the depth of leg/frame offset. It's hard to tell depth from this video but looks to be 15 - 20 mm max? Then with a t track router bit cut a t slot in the hardwood or even embed some aluminium t track which accepts the festool type clamps into said hardwood strip. ( This could possibly be self tap screwed from the inside or front or maybe just glued with epoxy resin ) Could do it on the rear also? I personally only seem to use the front of the mft I have for clamping boards to shoot up with the jack plane, not much else.
Lovely idea, those collars. I’ll print a few of those tonight.
That's really useful thanks as I have one of these tables. Looking forward to the more advanced upgrades
Simple modification makes the bench fare more versatile. I am sure that those who work from the back of their van, this is a good option. Some work sites are not the best place for very expensive tools, so to have options.
Less attractive to van clearance, that so many suffer.
Great video.
Thanks! 👍
Regarding 20mm router cutter which is slightly smaller. Anyone looking to get this cutter buy a 20mm and get it sharpened, works very well.
Nice info as usual Peter
Interesting, all three 20 mm cutters I have produces slightly too large holes for my UJK bench dogs.
Peter you are the master Wizard!
Saved by the Peter!!!! Strikes me you could do something similar to an MFT to eliminate the front hinge with a Stanton rail clip.
One may want to camper the bottom holes on their MFT table a bit as well to make putting the regular clamps on easier. Not much, just a little bit like we do on the top.
I chamfered both the top & bottom of my MFTs, and am pleased with the results (I chamfered the bottom for when - not if - I flip the top). My preferred tool for this job is the UJK Chamfer & Reamer tool. This fairly inexpensive tool (a “drill bit” actually) produces great results. It’s also useful for refreshing dog holes that have caught glue squeezings, or that might have swelled with humidity (a reason why I treat all of my MFTs with a hard wax oil before using them).
@@G.I.JeffsWorkbench Good ideas. I'll have to do that my next maintenance cycle. I used a 45 degree round over bit for the top., the extension table, and my drill press table.
I just realized to router the center out you can slide against the flat side of the router base after cutting to width on the round side, instead of moving the guide.
Looks good. Will have to take a look at these and mod as you show. One thing that occured to me was that if you cut the sacrificial strip first, you could use that to space off the track for the two cuts to get an accurate fit
Thanks! 20-odd years of cutting stuff up and making it fit has convinced me that it's infinitely easier to cut a hole first, then make the thing to fit into it, rather than the other way around. 👍
Hi Peter, a great modification to your Wolfcraft MFT very useful and rounding off the dog holes for the clamps make job's a lot easier, good tip . As always a great video, Take care
Wonderful mods to the Wolfcraft MFT. Leave it to you to figure out these straightforward improvements. Perhaps the Wolfcraft engineers are watching this - and taking these mods to heart. I’m still scratching my head at how Wolfcraft could have released something with such obvious flaws. I’m wondering how feasible it would be to replace the edge material with 80/20 extruded aluminum strips? Of course all of these mods add to the total price, cutting into the actual savings compared to just buying Festool’s MFT.
Thing is, once you are knocking the side rails off, you are pretty close to just building your own table. There is a huge amount of margin in an MFT (well, in terms of cost of components, I am sure shipping is a major cost for guys like festool and wolfcraft).
but just to break it down, a typical MFT is at least a few hundred. you can get 1020 aluminum perimeter rails for 100 US. I don't know MFT top prices globally, but you can get them in Canada pretty easily for 170 Canadian, which is about 100 pounds sterling. Then you just need legs. Amazon has a number of suitable brackets, and you could just use dimensional lumber. I would say depending on what you do for legs, you are probably between 35 and 200 dollars. More if you want extreme weight savings.
Really, you could easily build a MFT using off the shelf components for $300-$400 US, if you are willing to put in a little sweat equity to assemble.
I've got the 2600 from Wolfcraft. You can use it as a table saw or router table with interchangeable inserts. I'm considering getting this one too and would really love to see what you can do with this table!
Love your work Peter
Thanks for sharing Peter, looking forward to thanking you in person at Makers Central in May (🤞) for all your vlogs of which help and educate me personally 👍
Thanks! See you there! 👍
Pretty nice work, Peter! 😃
The bench is definitely much more useful now!
Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Thanks 👍 You too!
“Accurate cuts”. Very smooth.
Thanks Peter, another good one, cheers
Peter, I love your videos, the only thing that makes me a little sad is that to get some accessories here in Brazil it is very difficult, import taxes are high (I know it's a local problem), the only way is to improvise, I am very grateful for your videos and ideas. A big hug
Thank you! 🙌👍
Already had the sacrificial strip. Will do the rest in the next weeks👌
Can’t wait for your mft jig!
Thank you Peter!
Peter, I've got the older master cut 2500 which has the insert plate in it. (I believe there is a newer 2600 version now on the market). However, what I have found is that the dog holes appear to be more like 19mm rather than the standard 20mm. Is there any way to accurately increase the holes to 20mm as the Axminster bench dogs I have are so snug that I can't seat them in the holes properly (presumably as they are 20mm dogs) any thoughts on how to do this as then I'd love to do the extra quick fixes you've shown in this video to get the workbench to a much better state.
That's interesting; presumably for 3/4" dogs rather than standard 20mm? The only way I can think to do that accurately would be with an MFT jig - though that would need to be moved around a lot because of the 96 vs 128mm hole spacing - or perhaps my new MultiJig, that will fit with the 128mm spacing. You'd have to set the jig up with a dog that fits the hole in the benchtop and is also has a 30mm head - or a collar - to locate it precisely, then clamp the jig and remove the locating dog to bore out the hole with a 20mm bit. A bit of a faff, but you'd end up with something more usable. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop I got lucky the UJK reamer bit did the job really well to increase the dog holes to the standard 20mm, would love to find a way to add some extrusions to the sides of table. I noticed on the wolfcraft website they do mounting blocks which clip into the frame, did any come with your table? And if so do you think these could be used in any form?
Thank you for the very informative video. Of course i also watched the introduction video of the Wolfcraft MFT.
Perhaps it would be possible to make a comparison with the new competitor from Metabo, the MWB 100, which is priced at the same level.
The Metabo is significantly cheaper here in the UK; we're expecting deliveries towards the end of the month - I have one ordered. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop thanks for the reply
thanks to your inspiration, i have built a MFT with Ikea rails for my small workshop in the basement
I might buy a mobile table for use in the garden so I am looking forward to your opinion on the Metabo MFT
I guess that I am too old school. I am using a pair of Black and Decker Workmates (WM125), a pair of 2x4 studs and a variety of "C" clamps. Of course I am not buiding fine furniture .... just home DIY projects. By the way: you ghave a large workshop. I have to cram everything into a 8 x 12 foot utility room (along with a washer and dryer). I do have the advantage of being able to move things out under my carport (in favorable weather).
Is the trend t18s new? I dont remember seeing it on the channel before
No, had it for a while, just haven’t had much to say about it. 👍
I can see doing some of those mods to my Centipede top, too.
«Just» another great video from the 10MWS - And those jigs looks very interesting and promising.. 😉
Have you bu the way looked into the Triton work/MFT table?
Thanks! Triton is a different animal - much more intended to be used with the extra tool ‘inserts’ and not for eg crosscutting. Suffers from ‘extrusion confusion’ as well though they at least have t-track in the sides. 👍
I've tried a number of 20 mm router bits (Festool, ENT, etc), but they all make a hole that is either slightly too loose or slightly too tight. If you manage to come up with a Goldilocks bit that is just right, I'd be first in line to buy one.
That's the holy grail right there. Unfortunately, every router is different... 👍
@@robertpearce8394 Haha, I think the Trend 20 mm bit may well be the only one I haven't tried yet;-)
I’ve made a top using a 20mm Bosch Forstner bit which produces holes the right size. The challenge is keeping the drill vertical. A router that runs at around 300rpm would be useful for use with the Forstner.
@@robertpearce8394 I have the same problem, the non-expanding dogs from UJK is a sloppy fit
@@10MinuteWorkshop Do you think the loosenes is caused by a slight wobble of the router bit?
Once your bits are ready, I would appreciate a video of you trying it out with different routers to see if there is a difference and different dogs. Especially the rather common chamfered ones like the ones from Benchdogs and UJK
Great ideas.
Wolfcraft might have to have the dog holes in different spacing to avoid a lawsuit?
I spotted a railhinge on banggood a while ago. Might be worth a test Peter?
Pretty sure the Festool patent has expired.
You can patent holes in wood?
+1 for the banggood rail hinge. seem to remember it looked easier to make compatible with this table
Awesome tips 👍
Love all the fixes. The shameless plugging has me in stitches😂😂😂
What’s the point of having the channel if you can’t promote your own products! 😂😂👍
Fantastic news from you Peter. If u can manage to keep the price reasonable you will corner the market , and blow parf guide and trends mft jig out of the water....with their respective daft prices.
Thanks for sharing.
Hey Peter, at risk of missing something obvious and asking a stupid question, as this is a portable table and not supposed to be fixed anywhere, couldn't you just rotate it 90 degrees to get a 690ish cross cut from the distance between 7 holes on the other axis as opposed to enforcing the self imposed limit of 5 width ways?
Yes, I do say this in the original video, the downside of using it in ‘portrait’ mode is that lack of support for the workpiece either side of the cut. 👍
I'm a beginner and I am confused by the number of different ways that cross cuts can be made using a track and a table. Can someone who has experience comment on the pros and cons of the different options? Here are 5 methods I have seen demonstrated; there may be others and I may have misunderstood what I have seen. 1) Position 3 or more bench dogs so they make a right triangle. Place a reference edge of the work piece against two of the dogs, and position the track on top of the work piece at right angles to the reference edge using another two of the dogs. 2) Place the reference edge of the work piece against a fence that in turn is positioned against dogs. Position the track using dogs as before. 3) Place a reference edge of the work piece against any two bench dogs as before, but use a rail square placed against the reference edge of the work piece, rather than dogs, to position the track at right angles. 4) Install the track on a hinge. Dogs are used to position the work piece, but not the track. 5) Position the work piece as before. Buy special dogs that install in the slot on the underside of the track using a t-track bolt. Position the track by placing those dogs in 2 holes in the table. I haven't tried any of these methods and am unsure where to start. Can anyone help?
This video - Square cuts: MFT or Rail Square? [video 422][Gifted/Ad**]
ruclips.net/video/3C8XSWliOys/видео.html - covers the basics. There’s a whole playlist dedicated to this style of bench, links in the video description. 👍
the slots would be helpful for me for how i use it .
Hey why bother with the sacrificial strip? Why not just cut into it as is and update to a fresh strip when and if required?
If you use a rail hinge or the two tall Benchdogs approach, then the cut line is always going to be in the same place; the sacrificial strip extends the life of the top. 👍
Yes I understand that but why not into the existing mdf. Then cut it and replace with a strip later on if / when it gets worn out?
Peter will the jig ship to US?
Absolutely! I’ll ship anywhere. 👍👍
Good stuff
one can't help thinking it is a bit like flogging a dead horse, MFT tables come up second hand all the time and if you want an MFT you are probably capable of making a frame and legs for a replacement MFT top,
Don't know where you live but there are three MFTs on eBay right now, one an ancient MFT 800 and a couple of MFT/3s. That's more than I've seen ever - too me a couple of years of diligent searching before I turned up an MFT1080.
Good job, but as you say, you shouldn’t have to modify a new product to make it useable.
I looked this bench up on Amazon US and they want $ 956.00 for it?????
WTH?
From the video description: Americans, please note that Wolfcraft do not have formal U.S. distribution, any item you see on Amazon.com is there by a third party and does not reflect OEM pricing in the UK/EU**
You seem to have caused a world wide shortage of this MFT table
If you are replacing the top you are in essence paying £200+ for a fold up picnic table🤔
Not a picnic table, but a costly set of folding legs, yes. Still have the price of an MFT basic with the top changed, and folding leg sets are costly, which is why I made my own when I was making my mobile benches. 👍
I would definitely go that way Peter. Make your own but I understand why these things exist for convenience.
Mach ruhig weiter so 😡
Dann kauf ich bald doch noch so einen Wolfcraft Tisch 😂😂😂