INTEL latency issue PT. 3 - PLUS the new INTEL DOWNFALL up to 50% performance loss.
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
- This is a follow up video to the original latency issue video, posted nearly a month back. Many people have been upset with how the newer CPUs have been performing in basic tasks, and professional workloads. I have been trying many fixes over the past 6 months or so, and here are a few that seem to have the systems experiencing the issue working a little better for the most part.
Windows 11 debloat - www.windowslatest.com/2023/08...
TJ video: • Debloat Windows 11 Ins...
PCWORLD POST on Downfall: www.pcworld.com/article/20255...
Aura: www.asus.com/campaign/aura/us...
____________CHAPTERS__________
0:00 Intro/progress
0:47 Intel Downfall
1:12 troubleshooting
1:26 debloated Windows 11
1:49 Power management
2:13 Windows animations
2:23 IGPU disable
4:15 Office "test" after bios change
4:30 Gsync disabled/enabled
5:03 Not a real fix for all PCs
5:25 Latencymon
5:46 Aura standalone
6:35 I still need to fully try Linux
6:57 12/13th gen still has issues
8:01 E cores
8:30 GPUs to blame
9:51 Intel Downfall topic
11:15 End thoughts and your opinion
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Наука
Feel free to like the video, It massively helps. I think its important toget this subject more widely talked about. Appreciate you all.
I'd be curious to see you try a SATA drive~ PCI-E slots tend to share IRQs with other stuff on the motherboard, but SATA controllers generally do not. I no longer have an intel chip to test with but I remember booting my 13900k from a spare 2.5" SSD I had for something else and immediately feeling like it was smooth as butter.
@@arc00ta I actually had a sata drive plugged in for a bit, removed it during the original troubleshooting process (older Samsung pro) figured maybe it was causing issues. I could install win on there and test it. I really shouldn't have to, but for the sake of science at this point 😅.
My original boot drive was actually a pcie SN850 using a saberant card, so I know running nvme over PCIE made no real difference unfortunately.
i had the same issue on 13600k msi a-pro for long time i try a lot of things didnt work
but turn off the igpu and multi-monitor now all good even in LatencyMon
So thank you Soooo much
So this actually seems to have solved the issue for you as well?
Yes i am on win10 i was on win11 the issue was way worse on win11 but i did not try win11 after the igpu off
Thank you so much for this video
5:25 You can use NVCleanstall to enable Message-signaled interrupts for the Nvidia driver. That should help with the DPC latency a lot. In the advanced settings I set it so that it's always running on just one core.
Thank you for this tip
@@techwandoUS or use "msi mode utility V3" to get this on and of in seconds + a restart
I have 13700K, 6400 optimized RAM and Z790 ROG strix Board and a 4090. I have a high latency in latencymon, but no problems, system runs good and smooth.
And everything is on, win balanced plan with max. PCI-E energy save setting, all Win 11 safety things active, max. energy save in the Bios @ 64 Watt in IDLE Desktop for the PC
(with 4K 120Hz)
About the nvidia latency: nothing working, its about 1500-1600 newest driver and msi mode are not helping to get it more down (and other options for max. perf.)
About CPU latency: the only way to get this low is disable Core Parking with ultra powerplan and disable all C states, but than the energy consumption is nearly doubled for IDLE , Videos and other small tasks
So i ignore latencymon and have a good running system, the win explorer is a little bit slow, but its a more of a windows problem not the cpu oder bios
Fun tip for Windows 11 installers, when it wants you to make an account you can hit shift+f10 and type in the box oobe\bypassnro then hit enter, and it will reboot and allow you to make a local account with no microsoft login.
Also a great tip, thanks for adding that in. The other one that works is no@thankyou .com.
Would this work on Windows 10?
@@Sercer25 You don't need to force it on Windows 10, just don't connect your ethernet or wifi and it lets you do the same thing (select the tiny text at the bottom thats says "I don't have internet"). Windows 11 was originally the same way but they decided stealing your data is very important so you must log in.
@@arc00ta Cool thanks. I'm doing a new PC build. Gotta decide if I want Windows 10 or 11 botnet. Win 11 apparently works better with 13th gen intel chips.
@@Sercer25 Do Windows 10 first and if you decide to change just let it upgrade to Windows 11, I've done it dozens of times with no issue. They're branches of the same OS so its not like earlier upgrades that caused a lot of problems.
Long post:
I had a bios update for my board(msi z790 + 13700K) so I had to redo all my OC and RAM tune and took the opportunity to test the worst case scenario of everything stock + untuned DDR4 2133mhz and still could not reproduce a single issue but my windows 10 install remained heavily tweaked it was only bios that was default. Memory copy tests are significantly slower to time to finish with ecores on in my testing but the speed achieved was the same.
I tested 6 games with cap frame X so I could analyze the frametime variance + test throughput of stock vs OC. Ecores off produces the best frame time consistency across all the games I tested. Borderlands 2, Borderlands 3, Shadow of tomb raider, Cyberpunk 2077, red dead 2, spiderman remastered. Depending on the game you can lose some max FPS with ecores off but the gain in frametime consistency is what I care about. I tested 4K stock vs OC E& P cores vs OC P cores. P cores clocked to 5.5ghz all core and ecores clocked to 4.4ghz all cores.
Comparing the town portion of the red dead 2 bench the frametime variance goes from 86.77% @stock, 87.44% E&P cores OC to 90.42% just P cores.
FPS(AVG, 1% lows) goes from 160.7fps, 83.4fps stock, 207.6fps, 85.2fps E&P cores OC to 210.7fps, 101.2fps
In some games the Ecores do not get in the way of anything because of being so GPU bound Cyberpunk for example with Physco RT + SSR 93.51%(stock),98.38%(E&P OC), 98.89%(Pcores only). Throughput essentially the same with each one getting 68fps avg and 57fps lows only the smoothness of frametime delivery changed. Something a bar chart will not show.
I did these tests because I thought it was slow RAM causing it on the desktop but slow ram had the biggest effect on GPU unbound throughput and some effect on frametime variance when GPU bound. Hard to tell without knowing some of your voltages in your setup. SA, VDDQ, DRAM voltage could need bumping for stability depending on board. Just because XMP gives a voltage doesn't mean that its rock solid on every board not saying that to be overly obvious here but just because I thought thats what XMP meant before lol. imo extensive ram stability tests are not needed. Simply upping these voltages and seeing if the problem goes away should be fast enough to check if its the source depending on board.
My board has now had only 3 stable bios since release(Oct-20- 2022) at least for my combo of parts all other bios and I can't even get into windows above stock ram speeds. I do think silicon lottery has the most impact with IMC quality on 12th and 13th gen. I wish I could have reproduced the error I wanted to find the source and help squash the bug lol
Appreciate the long post, and your comments on the situation. I currently am undervolted but have done both a mild all core OC on the CPU (P core) and tried quite a few scenarios including stock which is never good on Asus as they pump voltage into all their sockets like no tomorrow. Also Dram timings etc. I am actually on DDR4 4000 CL 18 BD. I had previously been on DDR5 6400, but went back in an attempt to fix it/save a buck back in January. Also both of my personal boards have been the Z790 gaming A and or the D4 model which I currently am using. Customer machines with the same issue had, EVGA, ASRock, and Asus boards.
Honestly gaming doesn't seem to be to affected by any of this, I had posted the Hardware Unboxed numbers at the end as an example of how it does change gaming numbers a bit (E cores off), but for me in regular tasks across 4 PCs it was only worse. I have noticed the frame times being a bit better as you had mentioned when E cores were disabled.
Sounds like you just have a rock solid setup though, happy to hear that.
Maybe it is silicon lottery at this point. I have never in all the years doing this seen so many variables from 2 very similar generations of processors.
Also to go backwards, I did also up the voltages on the dram, and even ran memtest (just the built in one on z790) for about 6 hours straight. I won't leave it overnight running cause of the loop, and frankly I do not trust the 4090 being on without a parent around. Waking up to a fire is not ideal.
Appreciate your well written comment and attempt to solve the issue. Thank you.
I don't blame you on the trust with the 4090. I check mine a lot LOL its the only drawback of owning one tbh. I had that video posted in one of your community posts showing desktop usage situations on my setup with multimonitor specifcally because this issue was not gaming focused. I just wanted to point out the ecore on/off thing for its effect on frametime in games. That stats tab in latency mon shows this "Average measured interrupt to process latency (µs):" mid page. Ecores have a massive effect on this. WIth my system off its around 1.5 but with ecores on its 11.1 to 12. There is a youtuber, fr33thy, who has guides on getting the latency to go away. Before finding that dude I suffered for a year running an 8700K at the worst imaginable settings back in 2018.
Just an observation based on your latency mon. Its very high specfically on the top bar, current measured interrupt. I know thats the point but those two highest reported bars really only matter if its keeps showing them changing. meaning its constantly spiking that high. Focusing on that top bar in your video it spikes to 266 when you move your mouse the first time and over 100 each time you move it after. This should not happen. Latency mon should be used with nothing going, system idle, and internet uplugged. Then you can get a baseline of your system and if any idle drivers are spiking. interupt affinity policy tool can be used to put problematic drivers on other cores. Everything defaults to core 0 so it bogs it down. If those are your highest spiking drivers while OBS is recording then thats expected a bit since the GPU should be doing processing but its still high. It might be marginally higher with ecores on but you should be able to get that first bar to hover below 40 constantly almost never spiking above it. Even moving mouse at max speed I couldnt get it to spike about 38 on the top bar. If tested at base with nothing interupting you then try to interupt one device at a time, move your mouse if there is a spike your mouse driver needs move cores, that usb hub needs to be put on the same core too etc. If you open files and your storage drivers cause massive interupt delays, and you are using NVME drives you can tweak this by MSI priority and by nvme response time hidden setting in powerplan regedit LOL. Windows is just lame idk all this should just work.
Basically you just use device manager + interupt tool + latency mon. Latency mon shows the spiking driver. Device manager shows physical location that you match inside interupt affinity policy tool and then the tool also lets you choose what core you interrupt on. Some stuff has to interupt on core 0. Mouse, Key boards, drives, USB hubs are safe for other cores to interupt. Thats all I can think of. Cstates, speedstep off, and only static clock in bios helps drive that latency down further as well.
Hopefully someone has the answer eventually lol
I should just fly you out here (:
Sounds like you have done a ton of tinkering with this stuff. Good tip on latencymon as well, I'll definitely follow your tip on that and try it. Also thanks again for taking the time to write up something so thorough as well. The community needs more people like yourself.
I had forgotten to mention one more thing. Im not sure if laptops have much control over it but I am wondering how many of the laggy setups possibly are running gear 2 and CR2 on the RAM. Gear 2 incurs pretty bad latency.
That's a good point, I bet most will not even be aware or know enough to check that when having issues. I know one person that has this issue with a 12th gen laptop. Maybe I'll reach out and see if I can borrow it.
I just updated my pc on a budget last month. I now have a 12400 with a Gigabyte B760. Intel graphics enabled and drivers updated, but only using the dedicated gpu for my two monitors. Windows 11 not fresh, updated from 10 since my old hardware didn't support 11. I didn't notice any stutters or lag yet. I use my pc for work every day.
The issue is with hybrid core architecture cpus,
thank you
is there a definitive answer to whether primary display should be set to PEG vs. PCIe? I swear I’ve looked everywhere and can’t find anything on this setting and honestly ur video is the first I’ve seen mentioning that it should be set to PCIe as I’ve seen a few Bios guides mention that it should be set to PEG (which is what I’ve had it set to for ages)
If there's nothing wrong with your computer then just don't change it. This video is a three-part video on trying to fix this latency problem and many people have argued that switching it does nothing or reverts it so I have no definitive answer.
Very well informed video. I stand corrected based off the previous comment I posted on the video you removed, as these issues are also affecting server-grade CPU's, specifically on applications using advanced vector extensions (OSPRay, Tencent, OpenVLK , etc)
Appreciate the comment. I did actually toss that video back up. Learned a thing or two about YT in the whole process as well (privatized content seems to really affect the channel) even worse if you delete it outright.
I hope 14th gen comes with some fixes, but I am doubtful.
@@techwandoUS I really can't wait for your channel to blow up (grow) as the things you post are nothing but quality and lately is been showing even more. I know is too soon to speak about other YTubers so I'm making no comparisons but keep on the track you're in. Glad to be a subscriber, and trust me, every chance I get, I keep putting the word out there for your channel. This week I will try a shameless plug on the jayztwocents RTFM show 👍
@@RandomBSOD I think this might be the nicest comment I have gotten since I started RUclips. I honestly can't thank you enough. Happy to have you here. I have a few new additions coming that will hopefully add some quality to the channel, one of them is a A7IV Sony camera, so people don't have to look at the grainy webcam content anymore. Thank you again.
@techwando I was also having strange issues with 12th/13th gen. I started with the asus ROG z690i board with a 12600k and started to have stuttering and blue screening. I upgraded to a 13700k on the board thinking it was a CPU issue. after much reading a troubleshooting I narrowed it down to the VRM's being the cause I could not get this working on my asus board and ended up getting a z790I gigabyte board which was crashing on first boot as well. I was able to stabilize the PC by adjusting the load line calibration to level 5/6 and tuning the power limits with it.
I dont have to disable E cores or anything like that. I have full use of my CPU
Appreciate your troubleshooting write up. I have done load line on my personal rig, it's been more stable as of late but still runs into the occasional hard stuttering. Less often at least. I'll have to reach out to the customers who had/have similar issues and see if this helps at all. Unfortunately most people at this point just moved on or don't care cause they use it for gaming only. It seems to be one of those issues that varies so heavily depending on combination and possibly silicon quality. Sold two 13900k(s) recently and one of them is now complaining about the same thing. The other person using a MSI board has zero complaints. This stuff is killing my brain though at this point 😅.
@@techwandoUS It's been wracking my brain for the better part of the last year and I consider myself pretty well versed with computers. I feel your pain on this.
@@dmans218 I think tech yes is onto something. I had a good long call with him about it. His evidence is convincing.
@@techwandoUS I can't wait to follow the results on this. I want to put a chip back in that Asus board. Otherwise it's a waste of money I could have used on other things
i am haveing some luck with tiny 11 and Windows 11 Lite Ghost Spectre also maybe try some gaming spacific linux distros i think standard windows is just a issue
distributing tasks across different os is a great idea ios .android ,linux and windows should be apart of any modern network each cm be used to overcome the shortfalls of the other
.. your chanel has made me take a closser look at my systems and has overal improved performance and security across my network
I have heard some very good things about tiny 11, I am happy to hear the content has impacted your systems in a good way. Usually it's reversed. The Linux distros are definitely the next step. I know I won't end up running Linux permanently, ideally a nice dual boot system to be able to troubleshoot a software vs hardware issue would be great. Appreciate your comment, thank you.
It might be the Asus MB, bc, I have zero latency with my 13900k. I'm using a MPG Z790I EDGE WIFI. I've also had the IGPU on and zero latency. So, again it might the Asus MB, some of their boards have alot of issues. Hence, why I went with the MSI MB this time around.
I was so close to going MSI this time. Got hung up on the color (silver/white option wasn't available during holiday). I am thinking of swapping it out now for a Nzxt z790 (ASRock).
@@techwandoUS Awesome! I was looking at a ASRock board, but when I saw the MSI MPG Z790I EDGE WIFI, had a 12 layer pcb, I was like, " I got to have it" lol.
I don’t have any issues with the ASRock Z690 Velocita and 13700 K. But I have sluggish file explorer on my 8th gen Kaby lake (i7 8550u) based system with Windows 11, which makes me think, this must be more of an OS issue with Windows 11
I had a 12900K and a MSI MPG Z690 and experienced these stuttering issues. Had to ditch it because doing autocad was unbearble.
@techwandoUS Thanks for the video. I have not noticed any latency issues since updating my bios and upgrading from a 12600k to 13700k. I was noticing stuttering and performance issues on the 12600k. At times i do experience performance drops on my current laptop (also intel). I sold my old laptop for a smaller one. Its the 2023 zenbook 14x with a 13900h, with that 13900h i do experience the stuttering issues from time to time.
Thanks for this comment, it's interesting to see how many different experiences you have had off of what is essentially the same hardware. I really wish a large channel would cover this topic. It's crazy to me it has gotten this far honestly. The 12600k in theory should be a stutter free, very well performing CPU for anything, same goes for the laptop. Has to be silicon related in some way.
@techwandoUS I did see another commenter who also had a high-end intel cpu and I think they said that they weren't experiencing the lag or stuttering
@@Chris_94 Oh for sure, based of the original videos numbers (over 1,000 comments), it seems to be about 30% of people ranging from top to bottom of the stack were experiencing issues, many other say they don't. Imo I think some people might not even notice it, especially if their first PC (which many peoples first desktops were COVID era PCs) and maybe they are used to their desktop performance. I think it really comes out and shows its true colors while using professional software. Games are basically unaffected.
@techwandoUS Yeah alder lake and raptor lake i5 and up offer insane performance for gaming. I wonder why Apple/Macos don't experience stuttering considering they also use a hybrid architecture. The only reason I can think of is the fact that apples hardware is tightly integrated and close together.
@@Chris_94 @Chris_94 Apple in particular has (like you said) has tight control over every product they launch, whereas windows has basically endless customization. I don't know this for sure, but I'd be willing to put money on it, that there is a dedicated team spending days on just moving the trackpad/mouse around until they iron out every little issue in the smallest areas of the product. I'll still take a windows machine over any Mac, but situations like this really make me question my loyalty at times.
Is it your microphone that is doing those glitches/crackles? I'm looking for answers as for why my i5-12400 (12th gen) PC is making audio glitches and just by listening to your video I hear some. Nice infos by the way.
I haven't experienced it since I did NVclean install and disabled all audio outputs in device manager (except the two I need) also played around with latencymon. Have you downloaded latencymon to see if your system is stable? It could be a voltage issue as well.
@@techwandoUS Thanks for your answer. Yep, I did all the tweaks I could do. I feel that my system is still "flaky" and I have lost confidence on it. So everytime I record something, I'm always thinking about pops/click issues now. Thanks again.
Intel Downfall vulnerability -- sounds kind of prophetic.
In the meantime AMD made vulnerability that allows you to steal anything you want using front channel attacks. So unfortunately we cannot even switch to competing vendor in this case.
I’ve been having one heck of a problem trying to figure it out. I had it working fine then yesterday it was glitching out to the point where I had to swap to ol’ reliable 12400 and the B660 motherboard. I’m going to try some of those things. I’ve messed with power settings and swapped everything but the motherboard and operating system. Out of the 5 12th/13th gen computers I have it seems to only glitch out bad with the Z690 motherboard. I put the Arc A770 in it a couple weeks ago and it worked fine until a couple days ago.
So swapping to the 12400 solves it for the most part for you?
@@techwandoUS I have not had a problem with the 12400 yet other than it being painfully slow at rendering or generating tool paths. I also haven’t had problems with the Gigabyte B660 Aorus Elite DDR4 motherboard. I’m beginning to think it might be the actual Z690 motherboard or Nvidia GPU.
@@techwandoUS unless it has something to do with the PCIE lanes…. The computer I have problems with has 4 HDDs, 3 NVMEs and 2 SSDs along with a Thunderbolt 4 card and of course the GPU. It kind of sucks because it’s my main work computer. It glitches out bad with Microsoft Word, Excel and the Windows folders but works fine almost everywhere else.
@@techwandoUS I’m going to set the GPU to use PCIE x8 instead of x16 and see if that makes a difference 🤔
@@techwandoUS I submitted a Windows support ticket for it 😂. Going to see if they have a response
I only seen lag on my 12700k system, when using the IGPU in a particular app with a RX 6800 GPU as the connected display, if I make sure that the app is using the RX6800 via the system\display\graphics settings then I see no lag. Also you could try disabling core parking. I know for sure core parking causes extra latency. Microsoft has really hidden away in Windows 11, but you can disable it via an app such as parkcontrol
Appreciate the comment
On spectre and arch I've never noticed any stuttering or latency problems in either windows or linux with my 12900KF
Might be that F sku, there seems to be such divided results with everyone, that it will probably remain unsolved unless someone larger looks at it.
Так и не проверил HAGS и MPO :(
Idk if games have high input lag on 12gen and up I hope they fix latency problems on 15 gen
I wonder does this issue also affect mobile 13th gen? I have a 13980HX w/ a 4090m I feel like I’ve seen it when opening something but just wanted to see if it also is a prominent issue
I haven't personally tried any mobile devices, but there have been similar comments across these videos talking about this. They are built off the same architecture so it's definitely possible, but I could not say for sure.
@@techwandoUS Thank you for the response funny thing is I just tested it myself while installing & I got it to replicate 100% of the time, I don’t have a duel monitor + my iGPU is off & OC to 5.7ghz my CPU
@@Guitar_Dude09 how would you explain the issue? Same kind of hard stuttering or is it more subtle?
@@techwandoUS It’s like complete stuttering just switching tabs & grabbing the windows & moving it around it stutters like crazy, I use a 480hz display so its so bad then it goes back to normal, I got a video of it but like I had noticed it before when my mouse would take 1-2 seconds to respond to movement & it would just flick, but fully testing its insane how just switching tabs & they can be windowed screen just switch then grab a window & fly it around or in circles & there you have it (it was when I was installing visual studio something that demanded CPU)
Sorry I had added a lot extra and deleted my original comment. This should remain unchanged.
I would recommend keeping multi-moniter on but set it to PCIE and just don't plug in to the motherboard video port. Set UMA buffer to the lowest value possible. What this does is only give the bare minimum amount of VRAM to the iGPU (borrowed from your system RAM). It will grab more from your system RAM if needed, but unlikely. Latency is caused from the writing from IGPU to system RAM (VRAM). This way you can still have Quicksync but only use it for encoding. I use Quicksync often due to AMD GPU on my 10900k rig but have manually set System Agent tuning to 1.35V in order to prevent issues with IGPU lag. You can manually go to start - graphics and set EVERY used app to High performance which will bypass using the igpu (that's what I do, including OBS). You will then be allowed to render as normal but encode using QuickSync
Also if you haven't already, I would recommend downloading the intel driver though the intel driver support assistant because, in my case at least, Windows updates gave me an outdated driver. It's a bit finicky and seems to only update properly using Edge for some reason (the driver software tool that Intel uses), but this has also resolved issues of hanging that I have had with my igpu being enabled in BIOS. Turns out my system has been very stable doing what I've stated above in BIOS as well as manually removing Windows Update's intel graphics driver and getting the official download from Intel.
I am going to try this. Sorry for the delayed reply. I have been doing that with many of the Intel drivers lately. I actually had to force the ME driver through INTELs site just recently too because the Asus link was broken. Thanks Asus!
Went from a 3900X to a 12900k with a MSI MPG Z690 mb, 4090 appropriate ram etc, had stuttering and when doing autocad it became unbearable. Tried doing everything to fix it ended up swaping back to my old mb and swapped the 3900X to 5900X no problems. Honestly I tried everything to fix the horrible mouse stutters and freezes.
Thank you for explaining, how many months did you put up with it? Sounds very similar to the others who are experiencing this.
What were some troubleshooting methods you had tried? Thanks again.
Someone from previous video says that B660 doesn't have this issue. MAG B760/660 max + 13900k could work tho, MPG is bad value imo. Might need specific bios version to enable the bclk overclocking.
@techwandoUS Only 2 weeks, was noticble from the start since alot of my work is desktop based, using Adobe and Autocad, opening and dragging around pdfs. Reinstall for windows, different ram, tried messing with Timings, C states, bios updates, drivers, even tried nvcleaninstall nothing worked. Though ram timings helped? It felt like. Slightly I would say.
@@mayumikentei sounds like we are in the same predicament. Along with many other users unfortunately.
Should I update 🤔. If it gives that decrease in the performance ( -30 % ) 11 th gen become as a 8 th gen cpu . And 11th gen was a trash generation on that 30 or more % decrease in the performance. Is it the same for 12 and 13 gen also?
I wish I could answer, I'd say follow the news on it and see if it's something that is actually concerning. Spec and meltdown were never concerning the average user. If the conclusion concludes the same I would say stay on older microcode for performance.
They have said, only update if you are doing heavy workloads, but for gaming you should be fine. And so far, raptor lake should be fine.
@@iceresilient OK thanks
I have a new Lenovo Legion 5i pro
i7 12700h
16gb 4800mhz ddr5 ram
Rtx 3060
So what happens is
Whenvever the laptop boots up
When a random scenery comes before the password window
There is about 2-3 sec delay after pressing a button
Also when in windows homescreen
When i click on wifi/battery options on bottom right panel
It also opens after 2-3 secs
Can you explain why it happens ?
Even charger is plugged in and laptop was not in power saver mode
This happens even when i have igpu disabled by advanced optimus nvidea control panel
Have you tried disabling fast boot within the bios? I will say PC does something similar too, I think it's mostly a startup issue, but is fine once in windows (logged in).
@@techwandoUS as i told you
Even after login the wondows home page
When i click on the tab where WIFI/BATTERY symbol shows (BottomRight)
It takes similar time interval and lag to open the Wifi/brightness/soundlevel/battery popup
Even after 1-2 hours of running a laptop
Did you try to disable EIST in BIOS and enable only Speed Shift to eliminate OS cpu voltage and frequency change?
I went after voltage and spent days on both undervolt/OC pretty early on (about 6 months back) with no luck, it does seem to run better with a slight undervolt, but it might also be placebo. I have 2 360s cooling my own CPU so temps have never really been an issue. It is also not an issue tied directly to one motherboard or brand as mentioned.
I have 12700KF, MSI Z690 PRO-A motherboard and DDR4 ram. No overclock, no undervolt, only XMP enabled. (I prefer stability, using pc for work), didn't notice this stutter or latency issues. I have installed Linux Mate and Win 10.
Maybe it's a problem that crops up with a combination of specific hardware and not others? Not sure where or what latency issues people are having even after watching tyc's vid. He jumped around and babbled about various things without saying 'here is what I'm doing, this is where I notice it - watch'. Just a bunch of erratic tasks with mismatched commentary. Seemed a bit ADD and could've been more concise/targeted to show the examples.
Fwiw I'm running 12700k without issues on an msi z690 board with 64gb corsair ddr4 3600, msi 3080 12gb. Storage consists of the os on a wd sn850x nvme4, a p41 hynix nvme4, 1tb wd black hdd, 6tb wd black hdd and 250gb samsung 860 evo sata ssd. Win11 pro. None of the drives/tasks show exceptional latency in any typical usage. Sure transfers are a bit slower to hdd, to be expected.
Over the last few months I've pretty much just come to the conclusion that not everyone has the issue, but a good 30% of people are complaining about it. Even just going to Reddit and searching topics related to it pops up with quite a few people mentioning the system feeling slower and less responsive since upgrading. Ironically before I even purchased my 13700k, a customer had brought me a 12900k system that had this very issue and I thought it was a Windows problem, but then after seeing quite a few systems come through with the same issue and then also mine... I started to look more into it. Then TYC put his video out. I had a good hour long phone call with him were he told me the info on the company stating the issue which I obviously cannot mention, but it seemed pretty legitimate.
As for combinations of hardware I have tried so many different combinations. At one point my local parts vendor was telling me to hop platforms after borrowing multiple different boards, cards, memory etc. The only thing I haven't changed out has been the CPU. Windows 10/11. Parked cores, c states, timings. I can go on for hours. The system is just slow and erratic compared to other PCs I've had. I'm going to buy a 14700k and try it out for a week when they release. See if maybe my 13700k is the issue.
setting high performance globally on the nvidia panel will draw alot of power because the card wont down clock
The purpose is mostly to eliminate any possibility of stuttering. The 4090 doesn't stay at full clocks on the desktop doing basic tasks, but ramps up much faster. I have watched afterburner graphs during the workloads/basic tasks. It's definitely not as efficient you are right on that, but it isn't pulling full power or even that much at all when monitoring the Thor 1200s readout. Sits around 160w.
@@techwandoUS thats not sustainable
though it appears that when you apply an fps limit to your games the 4090 can actually draw less power than a 4060ti on 99 percent load in the same scenario lol
thats extremely sustainable
How to disable Intel downfall patch? (to have more performance power)
There will be an update with an included toggle to turn it on and off. I don't believe they are all out yet (updates). Check your motherboard manufacturers site with your specific model number. Look at bios updates and the chipset updates. Or check your motherboards included software if you use that for anything related to updates.
@@techwandoUS so it should be motherboard'manufacture update, not Intel one?
@@timsamsung3736 Yeah, they will be updated through your motherboard. All the Intel updates are sent out to the motherboard manufacturers, so check your board model and visit the page to see if there are any new ME drivers, Bios updates, and chipset.
@@GERRaze PC world, and a few other major outlets are treating this a bit different than Spectre, Meltdown. I'd highly suggest doing more research before just telling people stuff like this.
Third message, sorry about the spam, I've actually downloaded signal RGB but I haven't activated it yet. I was a little gunshot cuz I wasn't sure if it was actually stable or not
The more the merrier. Signal seems to be pretty good. I have heard occasional complaints, but that's every software.
Anyone able to figure this out? It's been 6 stressful months of troubleshooting and tweaking and I can't figure this out. Ppl calling me stupid on forums, swearing their 12/13th gen is fine.
I'm about to pull the trigger on a 7900x or a 7800x3d, but I'm so fucking scared of buying PC parts after all this. I've been building since late 90's and the only time I've ever had this many annoyances in a build was the Voodoo 5 , more than 20 years ago.
I have work to do and don't care much about gaming. Stuttering on browser and office on a 13700k should NOT be acceptable. VM's also run like shit, which I also need for work. And the iGPU I paid for quicksync, that has to stay disabled. WTF
I can feel your frustration, I've been in the same boat for a while now. Did you happen to shoot me an email?
@@techwandoUS Yes, I did :( I'm totally lost with this lol.
To mitigate or not mitigate downfall? 🤔. & why
Single win 11 pro custom built pc w/ 11900K mainly used for gaming, benching, browsing, music, videos etc
There hasn't been enough updates on downfall to say which direction to go. Maybe turn it off in gaming but leave it on at all other times
Very INTELesting video, you buy a processor that costs an ARM and a leg AMD because of a bug you RISC losing a lot of performance (sorry, I couldn't resist)
Haha, I enjoyed. It is definitely a frustrating experience. I hope 14th gen comes with some changes.
Oh and I did pull the trigger on getting a 4080, thank you so much for the link to the driver Stripper.
There was a lot of excess crap in there just for having the 3080TI in there for a while.
That one I need to see about sending off to a repairman to have them do a good thorough looking at and see if anything got cooked. It being what it is it wouldn't surprise me
Did changing the card help any of the system stability?
@@techwandoUS quite a bit actually. One of my problems started with my complete lack of experiencing computers. Namely in building them, what I mean by that was I had to have my friend help me with the build originally.
Without thinking that it may or may not be an issue, he used a eight-pin with a pigtail to power it instead of two individual eight pin cables.
So basically I was underpowering this thing by at least 25% for a year and a half. Safe to say that's probably at least one of the reasons why my graphics were degrading as I was going.
One of the first things I did for the 4080 was got a 90° adapter for it
@@Stormpriest Which adapter did you go with btw, I did a video on cablemod semi doing a "email recall" on them and offering a discount on the newer model 90°. You'll probably be fine on the 4080 no matter the model tbh as it seems like the 4090s are the most affected, but figured I'd mention it.
Hopefully your machine is running good/100% now.
@@techwandoUS I sent a reply with the link to the Amazon page where I bought it from but it doesn't look like it showed up.
Just in case that's actually the case, it was the Sirlyr 90° adapter.
It was a little over a foot long which in my case wasn't actually much of an issue. Normal size towers and ITX style towers would have a notable issue in cable management with this one. But there are shorter versions I think
The main reason I went for the 90° adapter was not so much fear of fires necessarily, but as big as my case is the 12 volt to triple eight pin that the GPU came with was sticking straight out horizontally. Like I said in spite of the size of my case that still would have caused problems as soon as I put the glass back on.
So, 90° adapter it is🙂 just didn't want to take any chances
you could try with a DDR4 mobo, if that fixes the issue then maybe the problem is in mobos with DDR5 or with DDR5 in itself
The current board is the Asus Z790-A D4. I originally was on the DDR5 board (same one basically just D5) six months back. Swapped around boards, and hardware a few different times. In my head the ddr4 4000 dominators tuned felt better, but a few days went by and eventually the machine would behave the same.
Same goes for the 3 other PCs mentioned as well (customer PCs).
@@techwandoUS oh! that is terrible thing it would be nice if the companies would come out and talk about this, is a pretty harsh situation for anybody that spends a lot of money in a pc and has this issues
Personally running a 12 th gen 600k.
I was thinking about up into a 13th gen, but I'm almost tempted to wait to see if the 14th comes out with the next few months.
One for future proofing too. For maybe being able to dodge this BS
Yeah, probably wait and see. Looks like the 14700k is the only CPU that's getting a decent increase and it's cores only. Very small bump in frequency as well.
Maybe try asking LTT to help with this. They should have the hardware laying around to get to the bottom of it.
I honestly wouldn't know how to grab their attention. I have been friends with Bryan for a bit, and a few other similar size creators from being in the business (before YT), but reaching out to them in the past has usually ended in no response.
Have you tried the intel chip with windows 10? I swear Windows 11 is horrible.
Yes, was actually the first thing I did 6-7 months back. The other 3 PCs were windows 10 (1) and (11) 2
That I had tested with the issue.
Oi, so it is definitely a CPU/motherboard issue. Honestly, this whole recent upgrade I had with the 7950x3d, was also a disaster. Horrible stutters both in games and just doing regular tasks. It is embarrassing. Do you think this issue would ever be addressed? Thank you for your hard work!@@techwandoUS
will just stick with my 7980xe@ 4.6 all cores... its not perfect but.. latency is better then newer platforms and... i got way more computer for my money not going latest gens...
So happy i bought the f variant for the 12th generation 😂😂
It makes a lot of sense that the iGPU would be the culprit. Pure speculation on my part, but perhaps the iGPU is trying to assist in 2d tasks and that's why it's more noticeable outside of gaming? Great work isolating this.
I think you summarized it perfectly, I think that's quite literally what is going on. It's constantly switching and getting stuck in mid states.
If you have this problem, prob just return the whole thing. I mean, why bother to fix those issues on brand new system?
This isn't an isolated thing to one system unfortunately.
@@techwandoUSI get it. I remember you wanna test it on Linux. It only takes 30 mins to install Linux.......
@@jackz166 Yeah unfortunately I have other things that I need to complete first and even though things like Linux are easy to install the applications like DaVinci and other programs I use that I need to test are not. I have about 3 hours every other day to make content, so I have to use time wisely.
@@jackz166 One other thing to consider, I need to run it as a main rig for about a week, or more. There are days where the systems I have experienced these issues on, where replicating the issue is very hard. Just downloading Linux and messing around with it for a day and posting results will make everyone who is well educated in Linux, not happy with my results. I really wish a bigger channel that has more resources (even Tech YES City is to small) would take a closer look at this. Too many people in the comments of the original video (30% of 1000 comments) are all saying they experience these kinds of issues on their systems.
If it helps anyone, I have zero noticeable lag. Here's my system - 13900k, Gigabyte Aero G, RTX 4090, Samsung NVMEs, 2x Corsair 48G Ram Sticks ... Hope this combo helps others choose a package that doesn't suffer as described in this video. I have run commercial win11 pro / ent and ghost spectre flavors... no lag.
Gsync is such overpriced garbage, my gsync monitors are way buggier than my freesync ones, and they cost way more...
My favorite is when the screen flickers for ten seconds every time i turn on my second monitor.
I agree, freesync seems way more stable. I feel like Nvidia knows that too, and is why gsync ultimate was created.
bruh to me a 12400f is a really good lag free desktop cpu, and bro out here calling his 13900 4090 pc laggy 💀💀
It's not just my PC.
for that peski algo
Thanks man
I was going to subscribe, however, those stupidly unnecessary ear-rings put me off.
What an unhinged, post-mod world
Alrighty then haha.