Pause at 19:40 and study the torque curves. The 62mm turbo has more torque than all the big ones from 3500 to 6000 rpm, then is about the same up to 7700. At 4500 rpm, it's making 90 lb*ft more than the biggest turbo. Mid-range torque is what wins races. If you're going for a Bonneville speed record, and peak power is all that matters, go for a big turbo.
The mid range works best on the road course. When I raced motorcycles, My bike had great mid range. You have 12 turns,and 2 straights. I can pull a tenth of a second on each turn vrs only 2 straights.
@@mcfero1 Nonsense. Dynamic forces at 4500 rpm offset pressure forces to the point that rod compression is almost zero. 15 psi boost is not enough to stack the rods at any speed, even at 1500 rpm.
When it breaks a piston or rod from the Big Bang I want to see aftermarket rods and pistons turned up until the factory sleeve fails on a k24(87mm) and k20(86mm), I feel like this would answer a lot of questions in the Honda world
Modern engines in general are all performing very well; but I think the standouts are for sure Honda’s K series, GMs LS and now LT platform, and the Ford Coyote/Voodoo platform. The power potential in relatively stock trim for all these engines is truly amazing.
If you want to talk about innovation, look at koniseggs inline 3 cyl 1liter twin turbo engine that produces 600hp. I'll be the first to admit at this point it's not attainable at all to the average guy, but it's badass nonetheless! PS, I still like ls engines.
The stuff at about 18 minutes in to the end is exactly what I like to see. Not all of us want 800- 1000 hp. at the top. Id much rather have 1 or 200 ft.lbs of torque where I drive the car. Even if it mandated forged rods and pistons, to live.
I'm so glad you don't discriminate engines. There is value in knowledge regardless of platform. I am looking forward to the ultimate power output with stock parts modified. Having the "soft spool" has been very helpful; for me with my RWD 4g63 car on no prep racing. Thanks for the time and energy
I'd imagine there are situations where the softer bottom end would help traction. and running them down on the top. But torque at the shift recovery point is important.
Im running the g25-550.. Best turbo for the street by FAR.. Capable of high HP for its size, but has amazing response and low-end.. I am tuned on boost by gear, but I make peak boost around 4K which is awesome for the street. And with the k24, stock, it only revs to about 76-7800 anyway with power falling off around there anyway. I make 390whp and 340tq which I think is a phenomenal number for the street. And its more than enough.. I couldnt turn it up much even if I wanted to as I would just spin. Im working on my suspension and tire/rim now to make it as perfect as possible.. I am running Hondata Traction control as well. Not perfect but a nice addition to have as 1st and 2nd would be useless without it. I am also running PPG 1-2-3 and a gearX 4th with Syncrotech carbon package. Trans is holding up really well. Its INCREDIBLY loud though. And I purposely went with a softer mount with Hasports 62a but the drivetrain is still super loud. A bit annoying for a street daily as I want the car to be.. And yeah the HArdrace full bushing set likely doesnt help, but the car just feels so stable and planted. Gotta make comfort and luxury sacrifices for performance.
This is one of the best turbo comparisons I've seen. Oh I've been a mechanic for 35 years and owned my own dyno tuning business for 16 year, So I have a turbo sitting around that was on my Supra and it made 550kw at the wheels, so i'm going to try it on my Honda K24a1 just for a laugh, will be taking the K24a2 head off my sons car if I can't find a K24A2 second hand engine, We don't have E85 at the pump anymore in N.Z. so thinking of WaterMeth setup. I want to keep the K24A1 bottom end to keep the compression down 9.6:1
I love the mid-frame (50trim/.63 or .48) for street daily and occasional fun time. (for my 2.5 baby Mopar) You get tons of tq early, but it is of course... a trade-off for top end charge via backpressure and untouched cylinder head. Love the content as usual!
Also from what I have learned a bigger turbo is better on V8 because back pressure can become an issue if you’re running a single turbo to compensate . a smaller Cam can give you torque sooner in the rpm while the turbo is for up top and no back pressure issues
Not into four cylinders... However, although the result turned out just exactly like I thought it would, I still enjoyed watching the turbo comparisons. And it is somewhat amazing just how efficient those little engines are.
A super comparison! Thank you for doing it. I feel one thing you’ve confirmed is that the GT-45 (or any similarly sized turbo) is almost like a ‘no worries, just do it!’ size turbo for so many combos. It seems to work somewhere between excellently and ok on anything you’ve tried it on. I was really happy with mine on a 6.2 litre LS swapped Foxbody... Cheers!
@@cumbob I drove a Lotus 7 replica that had a 2.4 with mild(ish) cams and a 68mm Borg turbo that was supposed to make 400whp. It was enough to make that 1,600lb car almost uncontrollable at WOT.
Lag disappears, with a small nitrous shot. Turbos love nitrous. It increases the volume of the exhaust gasses, as well as dropping the IAT's dramatically. Both of which is advantageous, when used on a turbocharged engine. Usually a small 50hp nitrous jet will add 50-70whp and 100wtq-150wtq. I have seen HUGE torque increases when nitrous is added to laggy turbo setups. This is because the nitrous turns a laggy setup, into a super responsive setup. Making a turbo spool 2k-3krpms earlier makes the torque output skyrocket. I had a stock shortblock sr20det gain over 300wtq after adding a 140hp shot. It also gained about 175whp. Made over 500whp and 500wtq on 93oct fuel, all on a stock shortblock with over 100k miles on her.
This is exactly why I want to go 300WHP NA before boost. Lots of the other guys were talking about oh, high compression turbo is bad. Well, this seems to be within spec.
The ease that you can make serious power these days is mind blowing. A K24 with that smaller turbo and 500hp would be amazing in virtually any car - wicked stuff.
Richard. I noticed in this video you stated what timing you had in it. Could you start to maybe mention your timing number with the LS stuff? I think it would help some of us kind of know a ball park so we don’t scatter stuff.
Bro just an NA K24 swap with Bolt on would make that miata insane.. I mean with full bolt ons a K24a can make upwards of 240whp stock. On a chassis as light as a Miata, thats a lot of power. And you have NA reliability.
For the same amount of money that would take you to make 250whp on the stock engine you can swap it for a k24 and have a much better engine for the future
There's lots of guys turbo k swapping there miata these days. I have a 07 k24 civic si an think I wanna k swapped miata. Rwd k series would be so sick.
It’s funny that so many people think putting a bigger turbo is always the answer to making more power, when in reality upgrading the cams and intake manifold is going to give you the top end power people are looking for. And usually on less boost
Gt45 for the win lol! Under 750 ish hp that $163 sure seems like the ticket, especially on small cube LS motor. It handily out spooled the VS 7875 which we know is a great turbo for 800 plus hp.
SO... back to that request i made in your other video about testing a remote mounted turbo vs off the engine. Your immediate answer was "the engine dyno is not the ideal place for response rate changes". And yet here we are 5 days later testing response and power curve changes LOL. PS: I absolutely love your videos so keep up the good work!
The problem with remote turbos is that the exhaust cools down a lot on the way to the turbine. If you can insulate the hot side well there’s no difference, but that’s really hard
Really awesome info. Great for all the people out there who learn visually and want comparisons. Shame you have to qualify so many statements, but it's important for people to learn, or sometimes unlearn what they have heard on the internet.
Also to add to this bigger turbo makes more power at lower boost such as 10 lbs on a small turbo may be 5 lbs on a big turbo which can have better charge temps I have also seen turbos with a .63 hot 78 cold that make 5lbs fast but get lazy at more boost over a .63 70 closer to equal wheels
Rich Were do you think a G25-550.72ar would sit with this set up? It would be on the down hill side of the map. My curiosity is in how much sooner it would come on(ref screen shot 19:24 "5250 transition ")? I understand that wound be counter productive for the purposes of this test.
I was hoping to see a boost pressure map. When did the turbo get to the commanded boost pressure? At what rpm? Your explanation was very interesting. I liked to see rpm vs hp graphed. I hope next time you can do rpm vs boost graph!
Also looking forward to the fully instrumented results, I think that water to air IC if they're done right can make a big difference to knock-limited performance and straight engine mass flow if you're not knock-limited.
Great information! Can you show the affects of too big of a cam on a turbo engine? Essentially the difference between turbo cams and N/A cams on a boosted application.
If the dyno can do a 5000 rpm run i.e. 3000-8000 rpm, can you start to show v8 engines at 2000 rpm and up? Off the line power is important for heavier vehicles.
I think the thing I appreciate the most is how affirmative you are of your blessings. You live a dream life(that I know you worked hard for) yet your humility and passion shine through. You are truly a man amongst mice.
FP turbo results look like a low back pressure with a large cam - as soon as back pressure creeps in on the others it'll drop power off pretty quick - that FP probably had 1:1 emap and imap or close to and lets the big cams eat.
Honda should have, and still should, produce two V8 engines. 1st with a N/A engine, and an optional 2nd V8 Turbo engine that has exhaust manifold built into the heads, for massive torque, with variable twin-turbos or compound turbo setup. Put the N/A V8 into a TRUCK frame, for under $30,000. Then an option for an off-road/rally TRUCK, with the twin turbo, for under $40,000. Take some losses but it would sell like hot-cakes. Build them in USA!
Honda cant do that because it would make every other car company go out of business. A turbo awd v8 civic would destroy anything and everything on the street and track. It would literally be the greatest engine ever produced and there would be no point in buying anything other than a v8 honda engine.
The real question is with the smaller turbo running between 7 to 10 psi will the motor with rods and pistons and headstuds would it run good numbers and not blow up with a 93 octane tune instead of me having to run e85 because its hard to come by around here the closest thing to my house is 100 octane race fuel and its like $17 to $20 a gallon on a good day
I dig that ur doing everything out there. I would b down with some more csb stuff like this since ls motors have doubled in price and r still a little complex with swap. Well more costly then complex. I'd like to learn more boost with carb. Especially E85 Configurations
How about an LFX gm V6 test?I'm sure the junkyards are full of them and they are becoming a popular swap because of how relatively compact they are with manifolds in the heads.Maybe a little boost and see what they are capable of doing and maybe finding some limitations
It doesn't matter what engine you have, boost makes everything. Lol. Judson, always said, your stupid if you got one and stupid if you dont..ive done a few off the wall combos and made good power with crap that nobody thought would.
@@snakeballs8965 really good for a 2.4 liter... that’s like making 700 hp on a NA 5.7 LT1 or 625 hp on a coyote... all on stock bottom end and no boost. Honda makes great motors. The S2000 had the highest HP per liter (123.5) of displacement of any production car till it was beaten by the Ferrari 458 (124.5) in factory trim
Please test one of those new electric turbos. I have seen some about them but it was putting out 8psi of boost for less than half the price for a turbo set up.
Those are for tiny engines. Wait for garretts 48 volt e turbo to come out. It's a normal turbo with electric aid to eliminate lag. www.garrettmotion.com/news/media/press-release/garrett-to-launch-industrys-first-electric-turbo/ Basically what they do in f1
So much good info! The torque curves really show an interesting story about sizing the turbo. Having back pressure numbers would be interesting, too but torque is what moves the vehicle in any particular gear. This begs the question from the BBC with twin GT45s, how quickly did the torque come on compared to a single S475 or S480? The back pressure on that test, the twins, was extremely low-did that kill the mid-range torque? With almost 500 cu in, did it matter? So many questions, so little dyno time... Thanks so much Richard!
Might be a very stupid question but can you/I run salt ice water in the intercooler? How fast would it start to cause problems if any? We learned when we were young that salt water will get way colder than plain water, it's how we got ice cold beer very quickly.
Great video, really appreciate the stepwise repeatable scientific approach that you take here. Regarding that biggest turbo, holding up at the top of the rev range, I believe that most likely relates to how the pressure difference across the engine (between inlet and exhaust) is developing. I'm guessing that biggest turbo still has positive DP in that high rpm range when the others are going to zero or negative. Just one man's opinion :)
@Robert Bandy I'm trying to understand the real world power losses from the lower octane rating of 93 gasoline; i.e., 20%? 30%? 50%? I'm looking at 500 bhp on these dyno runs... would these numbers be 300bhp? 350bhp? just trying to understand from the experts. thanks.
Please do a compound turbo on something to show benefits of usable power and see if the small charger actually chokes it out with big power or if it doesnt
Such a great video brother good job man!! Hey so what brand is the 62mm turbo do you have an affiliate link on where to purchase it? I want to do a budget turbo set up on my 1 of 1 kswapped Ford Festiva. If you could share any insight on a full budget build that would be fantastic. I’m new to the k24 but man they seems to make great power and stay fairly reliable even with a stock longblock. Any chance I’d be able to email you for a chat?
wondering if there are one of these that puts out around 16lbs for a "Polaris RZR Turbo S" side by side, as the big turbos for this machine are 1500 $ +
Hey Richard great video as always great information fun to watch. I would love to maybe see u do a 3.6 LGX turbo twin turbo build how much boost cam it take. Maybe how much none aspirated power any bolt ons to improve power. Just a idea maybe for the future even a LFX 3.6 be cool idk keep up the great work always enjoy ur videos. Thanks Josh Gessinger
@richard Holdener curious as to why 17* timing? Were you seeing knock? And was that at peak tq or were you ramping timing as rpm increased to keep peak hp climbing? Also curious what the back pressure was with using the stock exhaust manifold. I would guess that flow is being hurt at higher rpm and that’s why curve is falling off from the Na pulls.
Has anyone ever done an Intech four cam V8 (Lincoln Mark 8, etc.) to find the power capacity of the stock bottom end for the non-forged crank engines and/or an early to late intake comparison on Lincoln Mark 8 engines ? I was wondering how much boost I can reliably run in my Mark 8 engine and if I should switch to the second gen intake.
@@richardholdener1727 I suppose that much is a given, what I am wondering is what the crank itself is able to withstand. I have been told the cast crank in my Mark 8 is only good for around 450 HP
Seeing how much power the K24 can make NA is about what i was looking at getting with a turbo just because i got the A4 and finding cams for that thing sucks, makes good torque tbh, around 270hp with 10 psi, should boogie like a booger
Would absolutely love to get some Kinsler ITBs for my all motor K. Currently still running the Hayward Performance manifold and it does really well but ITBs are just top shelf all motor units lol. Truthfully my ported and port matched RBC made good power in itself. We’ll see what direction my next $$ gets sent to; ITBs are certainly in my future if I stay all motor but I’m also considering dumping the current piston giving me ~13.5:1 static comp and going for around 10:1 then taking the old Sidewinder and GTX3076 off the parts shelf and making something new happen. Decisions decisions lol
What's the approximate lifespan of the g45 in a street application? Can you advise on what turbo and how much hp can I add to a mazda L5ve for a sleeper application on a 4000lb vehicle?
@@richardholdener1727 thanks much for your response. I'm doing a project build on a 2010 Hyundai Santa Fe as a sleeper, it's a heavy vehicle, how much hp should I aim for with the l5ve to have that effect?
@@richardholdener1727 😂😂 At least you're honest. The L5 is the engine which came with the 09-13 Mazda 6. It's supposedly a strong engine and fits perfectly in the Santa Fe.
I have a Chenweth dunebuggy that I want to repower and I'm thinking either K24 or J32/J35. I'm not looking for a 600hp screamer more along the lines of 300-400hp with plenty of torque. I could modify the frame and mount the engine up front and run 4wd or could put it in the back and run 2wd. It's a future project something I'll be working on next year or the year after so no rush but would love to get some feedback and what you all think? I kind of like the idea of mounting the engine of up front and pulling the drive line from a 4wd Honda Pilot. Need some help on what all I need to make the engine run as far as computer control. I know older engines alright but haven't had a lot of experience when it comes to modern engines. So any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
I hope you make 1000 with this. I just don't think the stock sleeves will hold. Will be tuned in though! Id like to be proved wrong tbh and see it happen
🤞it can beat the 6.0 big bang HP number. Fantasy? Probably. Would it be cool? Of course yes! Yes, yes, yes! More boost!!!!!!!!! The suspense is killing me. I hope it will last.
Watching your channel inspired me to buy 2 3RZ motors. I have spent a week or so trying to wrap my brain around turbos and which one I need but my head is just mush. This motor is going to be a swap in my 1987 Toyota pickup which lacks power with its 22r. Any advice on turbo size for my 2.7L 4 cylinder 3RZ. Thanks
hey Richard could you tell me if trick flow powerport cleveland heads will bolt right to a speedmaster 351 4.123" bore block or if theres machining to do besides drilling heads 4 the water crossover?
Man, that GT45 clone at 10lbs of boost would make a very nice, inexpensive street setup.
Pause at 19:40 and study the torque curves. The 62mm turbo has more torque than all the big ones from 3500 to 6000 rpm, then is about the same up to 7700. At 4500 rpm, it's making 90 lb*ft more than the biggest turbo. Mid-range torque is what wins races. If you're going for a Bonneville speed record, and peak power is all that matters, go for a big turbo.
Mid range is what breaks rods as well. Makes engines life a lot shorter.
The mid range works best on the road course. When I raced motorcycles, My bike had great mid range. You have 12 turns,and 2 straights. I can pull a tenth of a second on each turn vrs only 2 straights.
@@mcfero1 Nonsense. Dynamic forces at 4500 rpm offset pressure forces to the point that rod compression is almost zero. 15 psi boost is not enough to stack the rods at any speed, even at 1500 rpm.
@@andyharman3022 LOL! I guess you missed the very first statements made in the video.
@@guhfluh What statements would they be? The first statement is "today is awesome, because it's boost day."
Dude, you're incredible for all of the testing and information you release to the public. I love this channel.
Surprising the lack of self-worshiping hype in his videos which internet hucksters seem to do a LOT. Lots of facts, instead.
When it breaks a piston or rod from the Big Bang I want to see aftermarket rods and pistons turned up until the factory sleeve fails on a k24(87mm) and k20(86mm), I feel like this would answer a lot of questions in the Honda world
Honda is where its at. Well, also LS of course.
Modern engines in general are all performing very well; but I think the standouts are for sure Honda’s K series, GMs LS and now LT platform, and the Ford Coyote/Voodoo platform. The power potential in relatively stock trim for all these engines is truly amazing.
@@kennethpowers8995 agreed
If you want to talk about innovation, look at koniseggs inline 3 cyl 1liter twin turbo engine that produces 600hp. I'll be the first to admit at this point it's not attainable at all to the average guy, but it's badass nonetheless!
PS, I still like ls engines.
Sorry, didn't spell that right but you get the idea
I wish they had more rwd car though
the only man to really be waking up with a smile on his face and going to a job he loves...
The stuff at about 18 minutes in to the end is exactly what I like to see.
Not all of us want 800- 1000 hp. at the top.
Id much rather have 1 or 200 ft.lbs of torque where I drive the car. Even if it mandated forged rods and pistons, to live.
I'm so glad you don't discriminate engines. There is value in knowledge regardless of platform. I am looking forward to the ultimate power output with stock parts modified. Having the "soft spool" has been very helpful; for me with my RWD 4g63 car on no prep racing. Thanks for the time and energy
Sir. You are doing Gods work. I am building a K24a2 as we speak and this is exactly what I needed to know. Liked and subscribed my friend
how is it going?
I'd imagine there are situations where the softer bottom end would help traction. and running them down on the top. But torque at the shift recovery point is important.
There are a few ebc’s out there that can adjust boost response by, time, rpm, gear. And if configured right handle it pretty well.
low rpm torque is what scatters engines they can handle more torque at higher rpm
@@bill2178 its more that they make less tq above the transition point up(5,2xx rpm) that is what is allowing them to survive.
@@daviddroescher the Torque those engines making at 7000 would put a window in at 1500
Im running the g25-550.. Best turbo for the street by FAR.. Capable of high HP for its size, but has amazing response and low-end.. I am tuned on boost by gear, but I make peak boost around 4K which is awesome for the street. And with the k24, stock, it only revs to about 76-7800 anyway with power falling off around there anyway. I make 390whp and 340tq which I think is a phenomenal number for the street. And its more than enough.. I couldnt turn it up much even if I wanted to as I would just spin. Im working on my suspension and tire/rim now to make it as perfect as possible.. I am running Hondata Traction control as well. Not perfect but a nice addition to have as 1st and 2nd would be useless without it. I am also running PPG 1-2-3 and a gearX 4th with Syncrotech carbon package. Trans is holding up really well. Its INCREDIBLY loud though. And I purposely went with a softer mount with Hasports 62a but the drivetrain is still super loud. A bit annoying for a street daily as I want the car to be.. And yeah the HArdrace full bushing set likely doesnt help, but the car just feels so stable and planted. Gotta make comfort and luxury sacrifices for performance.
have you tried EFR7163 in Dual Scroll setup?
You have to be the smartest guy on RUclips your the only one that can take one test and turn it into 10 videos
I was there testing for a week
This is one of the best turbo comparisons I've seen. Oh I've been a mechanic for 35 years and owned my own dyno tuning business for 16 year, So I have a turbo sitting around that was on my Supra and it made 550kw at the wheels, so i'm going to try it on my Honda K24a1 just for a laugh, will be taking the K24a2 head off my sons car if I can't find a K24A2 second hand engine, We don't have E85 at the pump anymore in N.Z. so thinking of WaterMeth setup. I want to keep the K24A1 bottom end to keep the compression down 9.6:1
I love the mid-frame (50trim/.63 or .48) for street daily and occasional fun time. (for my 2.5 baby Mopar)
You get tons of tq early, but it is of course... a trade-off for top end charge via backpressure and untouched cylinder head.
Love the content as usual!
Also from what I have learned a bigger turbo is better on V8 because back pressure can become an issue if you’re running a single turbo to compensate . a smaller Cam can give you torque sooner in the rpm while the turbo is for up top and no back pressure issues
Not into four cylinders...
However, although the result turned out just exactly like I thought it would, I still enjoyed watching the turbo comparisons. And it is somewhat amazing just how efficient those little engines are.
The damn China GT45 always shows respectably well. Kind of amazing.
A super comparison!
Thank you for doing it.
I feel one thing you’ve confirmed is that the GT-45 (or any similarly sized turbo) is almost like a ‘no worries, just do it!’ size turbo for so many combos.
It seems to work somewhere between excellently and ok on anything you’ve tried it on.
I was really happy with mine on a 6.2 litre LS swapped Foxbody...
Cheers!
it does work well on a lot of applications in the 700 hp and lower power level
A series on the Chevy Ecotech would be interesting.
I looked into getting one for My S10. Chevy wanted 9 grand for a crate motor! I hope that I can find one at the local pick-a-part!
@@randallmason9687 you should be able to, my local LKQ is loaded with them. $325 out the door without accessories.
Cheap in cavaliers and cobalts. Buddies cavalier is making 500 to the wheel with a choppy cam and turbo
@@cumbob I drove a Lotus 7 replica that had a 2.4 with mild(ish) cams and a 68mm Borg turbo that was supposed to make 400whp. It was enough to make that 1,600lb car almost uncontrollable at WOT.
@@greasemonkey258 they're pretty good engines, the older gens are huge in south america
Lag disappears, with a small nitrous shot. Turbos love nitrous. It increases the volume of the exhaust gasses, as well as dropping the IAT's dramatically. Both of which is advantageous, when used on a turbocharged engine. Usually a small 50hp nitrous jet will add 50-70whp and 100wtq-150wtq. I have seen HUGE torque increases when nitrous is added to laggy turbo setups. This is because the nitrous turns a laggy setup, into a super responsive setup. Making a turbo spool 2k-3krpms earlier makes the torque output skyrocket. I had a stock shortblock sr20det gain over 300wtq after adding a 140hp shot. It also gained about 175whp. Made over 500whp and 500wtq on 93oct fuel, all on a stock shortblock with over 100k miles on her.
I have two of the gen2's for my 6.8 v10 triton.
Thanks for all you do.
This is exactly why I want to go 300WHP NA before boost. Lots of the other guys were talking about oh, high compression turbo is bad. Well, this seems to be within spec.
K24 is a rowdy little bastard. I have a spare j35 from a 05 odyssey I'd be willing to donate to research.
are you local
My family lives in the sonoma county area, I travel down there from bend oregon pretty often. I could drop it off somewhere.
This is also very useful information for automatic transmission preservation, like behind a 2j.
Love this channel, he goes above and beyond for us
The ease that you can make serious power these days is mind blowing. A K24 with that smaller turbo and 500hp would be amazing in virtually any car - wicked stuff.
Best video for beginners I've ever seen!! By FAAAAAAR!! Thank you brother.
Richard. I noticed in this video you stated what timing you had in it. Could you start to maybe mention your timing number with the LS stuff? I think it would help some of us kind of know a ball park so we don’t scatter stuff.
This makes me want to K24/turbo swap my miata
DO IT
Kmiata.com
Bro just an NA K24 swap with Bolt on would make that miata insane.. I mean with full bolt ons a K24a can make upwards of 240whp stock. On a chassis as light as a Miata, thats a lot of power. And you have NA reliability.
For the same amount of money that would take you to make 250whp on the stock engine you can swap it for a k24 and have a much better engine for the future
There's lots of guys turbo k swapping there miata these days. I have a 07 k24 civic si an think I wanna k swapped miata. Rwd k series would be so sick.
It’s funny that so many people think putting a bigger turbo is always the answer to making more power, when in reality upgrading the cams and intake manifold is going to give you the top end power people are looking for. And usually on less boost
I'd like to know what it can do with larger ring Gap and still stock internals on boost in your next test runs as well
"I'm going to run it on the 500 inch Cadillac" *my ears perk up*
Exactly.
Gt45 for the win lol! Under 750 ish hp that $163 sure seems like the ticket, especially on small cube LS motor. It handily out spooled the VS 7875 which we know is a great turbo for 800 plus hp.
Wonderful work, been wondering what turbo to get for the street that kinda have two personalities now I know
I have a 75x82 1.10 ar on my cammed ls1 it lights up at 3k with load i really like that turbo
SO... back to that request i made in your other video about testing a remote mounted turbo vs off the engine. Your immediate answer was "the engine dyno is not the ideal place for response rate changes".
And yet here we are 5 days later testing response and power curve changes LOL.
PS: I absolutely love your videos so keep up the good work!
still not ideal
@@richardholdener1727 well I'll end it with this, would this be something you're interested in testing in the future?
The problem with remote turbos is that the exhaust cools down a lot on the way to the turbine. If you can insulate the hot side well there’s no difference, but that’s really hard
@@truckfreak4537 yes, that's the known part. The unknown is just how much this change in temperature affects performance.
Really awesome info. Great for all the people out there who learn visually and want comparisons. Shame you have to qualify so many statements, but it's important for people to learn, or sometimes unlearn what they have heard on the internet.
Thank you for doing these videos, it can be hard to find good comparison testing on this sort of thing.
Also to add to this bigger turbo makes more power at lower boost such as 10 lbs on a small turbo may be 5 lbs on a big turbo which can have better charge temps I have also seen turbos with a .63 hot 78 cold that make 5lbs fast but get lazy at more boost over a .63 70 closer to equal wheels
Choose the biggest turbo and use boost controller to help spike the boost down low.
the supercharger compound would be awesome with the big hotside turbo
Blue and green. Which turbo is which? It just says k24a- Turbo-e85. The labeling is not clear.
Rich Were do you think a G25-550.72ar would sit with this set up? It would be on the down hill side of the map. My curiosity is in how much sooner it would come on(ref screen shot 19:24 "5250 transition ")? I understand that wound be counter productive for the purposes of this test.
I have not run that turbo
I want to take a 2010 CRV and have some all-wheel-drive turbo fun.
This has been some good information on turbo choice.
I was hoping to see a boost pressure map. When did the turbo get to the commanded boost pressure? At what rpm? Your explanation was very interesting. I liked to see rpm vs hp graphed. I hope next time you can do rpm vs boost graph!
What commanded boost pressure? This was using a bleed valve as shown on the video.
Also looking forward to the fully instrumented results, I think that water to air IC if they're done right can make a big difference to knock-limited performance and straight engine mass flow if you're not knock-limited.
Great information! Can you show the affects of too big of a cam on a turbo engine? Essentially the difference between turbo cams and N/A cams on a boosted application.
If the dyno can do a 5000 rpm run i.e. 3000-8000 rpm, can you start to show v8 engines at 2000 rpm and up? Off the line power is important for heavier vehicles.
the Power Mark is a different dyno (DTS/Superflow hybrid)
Dude. You are an inspiration. Sbc,Ls,K series. You just plain know whats up
I love them all
I think the thing I appreciate the most is how affirmative you are of your blessings. You live a dream life(that I know you worked hard for) yet your humility and passion shine through. You are truly a man amongst mice.
Great testing, keep up the great work
FP turbo results look like a low back pressure with a large cam - as soon as back pressure creeps in on the others it'll drop power off pretty quick - that FP probably had 1:1 emap and imap or close to and lets the big cams eat.
Love the channel, excellent information .
Honda should have, and still should, produce two V8 engines. 1st with a N/A engine, and an optional 2nd V8 Turbo engine that has exhaust manifold built into the heads, for massive torque, with variable twin-turbos or compound turbo setup. Put the N/A V8 into a TRUCK frame, for under $30,000. Then an option for an off-road/rally TRUCK, with the twin turbo, for under $40,000. Take some losses but it would sell like hot-cakes. Build them in USA!
Going be alot of r&d going on.
Honda cant do that because it would make every other car company go out of business. A turbo awd v8 civic would destroy anything and everything on the street and track. It would literally be the greatest engine ever produced and there would be no point in buying anything other than a v8 honda engine.
@@lamydora457 Sounds like a good thing!
The real question is with the smaller turbo running between 7 to 10 psi will the motor with rods and pistons and headstuds would it run good numbers and not blow up with a 93 octane tune instead of me having to run e85 because its hard to come by around here the closest thing to my house is 100 octane race fuel and its like $17 to $20 a gallon on a good day
I dig that ur doing everything out there. I would b down with some more csb stuff like this since ls motors have doubled in price and r still a little complex with swap. Well more costly then complex. I'd like to learn more boost with carb. Especially E85 Configurations
You tryin to give that Kinzler manifold away? I'd take it off your hands lol
How about an LFX gm V6 test?I'm sure the junkyards are full of them and they are becoming a popular swap because of how relatively compact they are with manifolds in the heads.Maybe a little boost and see what they are capable of doing and maybe finding some limitations
Very nice comparison! Thanks for sharing, Dutch regards, Nico.
Please more data-IAT, I/E pressures....Thank you.
Don’t even like hondas but still he makes it interesting
EVERY MOTOR DOES COOL STUFF
@@richardholdener1727 what about the chevy Iron Duke?
It doesn't matter what engine you have, boost makes everything. Lol. Judson, always said, your stupid if you got one and stupid if you dont..ive done a few off the wall combos and made good power with crap that nobody thought would.
@@slopoke22 this motor was making 300 crank na
@@snakeballs8965 really good for a 2.4 liter... that’s like making 700 hp on a NA 5.7 LT1 or 625 hp on a coyote... all on stock bottom end and no boost. Honda makes great motors. The S2000 had the highest HP per liter (123.5) of displacement of any production car till it was beaten by the Ferrari 458 (124.5) in factory trim
Please test one of those new electric turbos. I have seen some about them but it was putting out 8psi of boost for less than half the price for a turbo set up.
Those are for tiny engines. Wait for garretts 48 volt e turbo to come out. It's a normal turbo with electric aid to eliminate lag. www.garrettmotion.com/news/media/press-release/garrett-to-launch-industrys-first-electric-turbo/
Basically what they do in f1
What were the boost pressures with the GT45 test? I heard 7-8 psi but there were 3 runs shown, thank you!
So much good info! The torque curves really show an interesting story about sizing the turbo. Having back pressure numbers would be interesting, too but torque is what moves the vehicle in any particular gear. This begs the question from the BBC with twin GT45s, how quickly did the torque come on compared to a single S475 or S480? The back pressure on that test, the twins, was extremely low-did that kill the mid-range torque? With almost 500 cu in, did it matter? So many questions, so little dyno time... Thanks so much Richard!
Might be a very stupid question but can you/I run salt ice water in the intercooler? How fast would it start to cause problems if any? We learned when we were young that salt water will get way colder than plain water, it's how we got ice cold beer very quickly.
YES YOU CAN-IT'S NOT GREAT ON ALUMINUM LONG TERM
We want a 2jz test
Great video, really appreciate the stepwise repeatable scientific approach that you take here. Regarding that biggest turbo, holding up at the top of the rev range, I believe that most likely relates to how the pressure difference across the engine (between inlet and exhaust) is developing. I'm guessing that biggest turbo still has positive DP in that high rpm range when the others are going to zero or negative. Just one man's opinion :)
Can you do some cam testing under turbo conditions? This would be awesome!!!
I love boost! There’s a 67mm turbo on my hybrid. Yeah...it burns diesel and rubber.
Where's the big bang follow-up?!
What effect would 93 octane gasoline have on the setup?
a lot
@@richardholdener1727 I guess what I'm asking is what if E85 is not readily available?
@Robert Bandy I'm trying to understand the real world power losses from the lower octane rating of 93 gasoline; i.e., 20%? 30%? 50%? I'm looking at 500 bhp on these dyno runs... would these numbers be 300bhp? 350bhp? just trying to understand from the experts. thanks.
Would love to see this test at 35, 50, and 60psi. This would show the power production limits and spool character of each turbo.
60 PSI?
Have Evo’s and Civic’s running 60psi on the street with these larger PTE6870’s and FP Super99. Larger turbos make best power curve above 40psi.
On a cold motor first thing in the morning, do a 1 by 1 swap for ARP L19 head-studs and send it.
Please do a compound turbo on something to show benefits of usable power and see if the small charger actually chokes it out with big power or if it doesnt
please see the compound turbo ls video that is up
My wife wanted to know why I was listening to Steve Carrell talk about engines lol
Such a great video brother good job man!! Hey so what brand is the 62mm turbo do you have an affiliate link on where to purchase it? I want to do a budget turbo set up on my 1 of 1 kswapped Ford Festiva. If you could share any insight on a full budget build that would be fantastic. I’m new to the k24 but man they seems to make great power and stay fairly reliable even with a stock longblock. Any chance I’d be able to email you for a chat?
THE 62MM WAS ACTUALLY A 67MM AND WAS FROM PRECISION
@ dang that’s a good turbo any recommendations that’s will do the job but not break the bank?
@@richardholdener1727 so that 67mm was it the 6766? Or the 6775? That are decently priced and man from this video that what I want lol
when is the k24 big bang
you need to do this on a ls 5.3 which a lot of your readers have
wondering if there are one of these that puts out around 16lbs for a "Polaris RZR Turbo S" side by side, as the big turbos for this machine are 1500 $ +
what is the na power output of that motor
@@richardholdener1727 ATM just under 200bhp at the crank with the std turbo but have no idea on NA. Around 110 as far as I know
Hey Richard great video as always great information fun to watch. I would love to maybe see u do a 3.6 LGX turbo twin turbo build how much boost cam it take. Maybe how much none aspirated power any bolt ons to improve power. Just a idea maybe for the future even a LFX 3.6 be cool idk keep up the great work always enjoy ur videos.
Thanks
Josh
Gessinger
I get a jealous feeling in my gut when a Honda Boi gets boosted. My Truth
@richard Holdener curious as to why 17* timing? Were you seeing knock? And was that at peak tq or were you ramping timing as rpm increased to keep peak hp climbing? Also curious what the back pressure was with using the stock exhaust manifold. I would guess that flow is being hurt at higher rpm and that’s why curve is falling off from the Na pulls.
the drop off didn't happen with the FP turbo, we tried more timing-did not log back pressure
I got a k24a2 with type S oil pump and a PPT bb 6266 turbo. I’m hoping to do 500hp.
that turbo is big enough
Has anyone ever done an Intech four cam V8 (Lincoln Mark 8, etc.) to find the power capacity of the stock bottom end for the non-forged crank engines and/or an early to late intake comparison on Lincoln Mark 8 engines ? I was wondering how much boost I can reliably run in my Mark 8 engine and if I should switch to the second gen intake.
you can run a lot if the tune is right and you add ring gap
@@richardholdener1727 I suppose that much is a given, what I am wondering is what the crank itself is able to withstand. I have been told the cast crank in my Mark 8 is only good for around 450 HP
Seeing how much power the K24 can make NA is about what i was looking at getting with a turbo just because i got the A4 and finding cams for that thing sucks, makes good torque tbh, around 270hp with 10 psi, should boogie like a booger
Would absolutely love to get some Kinsler ITBs for my all motor K. Currently still running the Hayward Performance manifold and it does really well but ITBs are just top shelf all motor units lol. Truthfully my ported and port matched RBC made good power in itself. We’ll see what direction my next $$ gets sent to; ITBs are certainly in my future if I stay all motor but I’m also considering dumping the current piston giving me ~13.5:1 static comp and going for around 10:1 then taking the old Sidewinder and GTX3076 off the parts shelf and making something new happen. Decisions decisions lol
P.S. Someone on the east coast come buy my LS car so I can have more free cash to dump in the rice rocket haha
What's the approximate lifespan of the g45 in a street application? Can you advise on what turbo and how much hp can I add to a mazda L5ve for a sleeper application on a 4000lb vehicle?
WE'VE RUN THE SAME GT45 FOR 10 YEARS NOW ON THE DYNO
@@richardholdener1727 thanks much for your response. I'm doing a project build on a 2010 Hyundai Santa Fe as a sleeper, it's a heavy vehicle, how much hp should I aim for with the l5ve to have that effect?
no idea what an l5ve is
@@richardholdener1727 😂😂 At least you're honest. The L5 is the engine which came with the 09-13 Mazda 6. It's supposedly a strong engine and fits perfectly in the Santa Fe.
Let make a bet! What will give first ? Rod or Piston? That is if the head gasket holds
waste gate not big enough for the big turbo causing boost creep in the high rpm?
boost was stable-we had two gates
Nicely done video , thanks so much
How much boost/HP would you limit a Prelude JDM H23 so it is still fun to drive without having a bunch of wheel-spin for a street car?
TRY 7 PSI-THEN TRY 10
H series have weak ringlands. Get a good tune from a reputable tuner...7-9 psi is fine, much more and the ringlands turn to dust.....ask how I know 😂
6262 for the win
If you are ever in San Diego and have access to a dyno we can do some sr20det stuff. It’s through a vw bug transmission though.
I have a Chenweth dunebuggy that I want to repower and I'm thinking either K24 or J32/J35. I'm not looking for a 600hp screamer more along the lines of 300-400hp with plenty of torque. I could modify the frame and mount the engine up front and run 4wd or could put it in the back and run 2wd. It's a future project something I'll be working on next year or the year after so no rush but would love to get some feedback and what you all think? I kind of like the idea of mounting the engine of up front and pulling the drive line from a 4wd Honda Pilot. Need some help on what all I need to make the engine run as far as computer control. I know older engines alright but haven't had a lot of experience when it comes to modern engines. So any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
I would pick the V6-not sure on the ECU swap portion
@@richardholdener1727 Thank you.
I hope you make 1000 with this. I just don't think the stock sleeves will hold. Will be tuned in though! Id like to be proved wrong tbh and see it happen
🤞it can beat the 6.0 big bang HP number. Fantasy? Probably. Would it be cool? Of course yes! Yes, yes, yes! More boost!!!!!!!!! The suspense is killing me. I hope it will last.
Would love to see a holset hx35/h1c
Here for all the boost
Watching your channel inspired me to buy 2 3RZ motors. I have spent a week or so trying to wrap my brain around turbos and which one I need but my head is just mush. This motor is going to be a swap in my 1987 Toyota pickup which lacks power with its 22r. Any advice on turbo size for my 2.7L 4 cylinder 3RZ. Thanks
Why does this motor make more than double power at plus one atmosphere?
E85
Your awesome for getting that data man I love ya for it
hey Richard could you tell me if trick flow powerport cleveland heads will bolt right to a speedmaster 351 4.123" bore block or if theres machining to do besides drilling heads 4 the water crossover?
have not tried that
@@richardholdener1727 well thanks for the reply man love what u do🎉
also a procharger and rwd intake on a 3800 would make a good Other Guys hint hint