Understanding Dorsal Vagal Shutdown: Numbness and Trauma (SNB192)
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- Опубликовано: 12 июн 2023
- Learn about dorsal vagal shutdown and how it affects your daily life. Learn how to recognize, manage, and begin to overcome this common physiological response to stress and trauma. Dive deep into the connection between trauma and shutdown, and gain valuable insights into recovery strategies. Take the first step towards improving your mental health today!
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This and other content produced by Justin Sunseri (“JustinLMFT”) (i.e; podcast, RUclips, Instagram, etc.) is not therapy, not intended to be therapy or be a replacement for therapy. Nothing in this creates or indicates a therapeutic relationship. Please consult with your therapist or seek for one in your area if you are experiencing mental health symptoms. Nothing should be construed to be specific life advice; it is for educational and entertainment purposes only.
Justin Sunseri is a Licensed Marriage & Family Therapist registered in the State of California (99147).
#polyvagaltheory #dorsalvagalshutdown #shutdown 
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My counselor was talking to me about this yesterday. I fall into the dorsal state and have a hard time coming out because I don't feel the world or life is safe. I have a bipolar2 child who I worked to keep alive until he passed by suicide last year at 16. There were 3 years before he passed that were extra hard. I was in constant fight or flight for him. the whole world is scary. Getting out of bed is scary.
I'm sorry you've had to carry so much pain. Please keep on this track for staying safe and becoming healthy!
This is the best way I've ever heard of describing my trauma due to a childhood of sexual abuse by an uncle that started at birth and went on with daily death threats until I was 13. He admitted to it but I received no help, mother fell apart and threw me out. At 13. I am now 50 and just was my mother's main nurse while she died of lung cancer for two years and all the childhood trauma has been reactivated physically. Constant disassociation. I thought helping her through her cancer and death would help me find closure yet I've been left with more unanswered questions then ever. This description has helped me quite a bit thank you
You're welcome. I'm glad this was a helpful resource.
Internal family system therapy...
I am so sorry. I hope that you are ok.
Your goodness won't go to vain. I'm sure it will find a way back to you🥺
Wow, this is quite a lot to live through. No wonder your body went partially offline just to survive it all! I'm hoping you're able to find relief and healing in life cuz no GP has been able to orchestrate a suitable recovery plan for my childhood abuse and chronic pain either. Best of luck and much self-love to you!
I was shunned by my community after realizing I no longer believed in Jehovah’s Witness teachings-especially disfellowshipping and shunning. My friends and spouse viewed me as an apostate and a threat to their spirituality. I changed my mind because both of my parents had committed suicide and I felt that shunning and disfellowshipping played a major role in their situation as well. Losing all of my friends at once and my marriage has been so debilitating. I have major abandonment issues and I can barely function
Have you joined any of the Facebook pages or RUclips channels about leaving the jw's? I have never been one, but have been interested in following the departure process and the RUclips comment sections are full of supportive people who have gone through the same thing and suggest resources to help heal. Reddit is another resource for support.
Bryan Johnson, the longevity guy whose videos are here on RUclips, said he experienced similar losses afer he left his religion (I think Mormon). Good luck!
Shunning is abuse. I'm so sorry you're going through this.
happy to chat to you i’m a single mom to a 9 year old and live in australia .. please reach out .. don’t give up
I made a foolish mistake and retired from my career job I really loved. I couldn't handle what i did. Stress was SO bad, i got insomnia!, anxiety... and depression. I don't do or go anywhere. I fear this condition now,.. im stuck with no interests.
this comment section is so validating and at the same time makes me feel a lot less alone with my years long struggles. sending love to everyone here ❤
♥️
After my wife's multiple affairs, I couldn't figure out why my body kept shutting down. This explains so much. Thank you!
You're extremely welcome.
I'm going thru the same thing. I've just spent the entire day crying my eyes out uncontrollably.
I don't know what to do.
How can I help myself?
Please share
@samyy9226 hey. I've been trying for 14 years to hold my marriage together with a woman who has had multiple affairs, spiritually, physically (she hit me in my face 2x), and emotionally abused me. I've been trying to keep "normal" for my son's sake, but there has to be an end to it.
Step 1: Find a therapist that can help you deal with all your trauma and break the trauma bonds.
Step 2: You will know when you get there. Just take 1 small step, find a therapist who can help you.
@@samyy9226 Try body scanning. Deep breath work and meditation. Each day.
Also, massage your body thoroughly, especially neck and ears, including your facial area. This will release good hormones.
At the worst, you can get a warm water bottle, and keep it to your chest.
Try to live life intentionally. Reasons -> actions, instead of Actions -> excuses/questions. So examine your day, actions, thoughts and feelings - why you do it, and then when there is more room from the actions, thoughts and feelings in the disentanglement of it - use that room to do something intentionally. This will give you more control of how you feel (eventually), despite the circumstances. Eventually, you'll be able to examine your circumstances and have room to do things intentionally to it - instead of in spite of...
Be sure to keep your peace, and think that what is happening, is not about you, despite how you feel about it... The more you think it's about you, the worse it gets...
Jeeez.. I'm saying this as a woman. You should have been gone immediately after the first time it happened.
I've been in shutdown for almost four years, barely coming out of it now, it is so bizarre. Don't fully understand how I'm still alive, but our bodies are incredible that's for sure
I’m in this state constantly, if not having meltdowns from reactions, and now I’m scared of triggers happening or any more stress/bad news, life events. I try to function, very limited, can’t hardly sleep, and it’s a horrible existence. I’m forever doing vagus nerve exercises. I’m healing from prescription medication damage and it’s so hard and traumatic. Yes being around others, even family is too much, so alone all the time. Not who I am. Thank you for talking about this and offering advice
You're welcome.
Honestly, I don't know what "vagal nerve exercises" are, despite all the time I spend on this stuff. I tend to recommend mindfulness-based approaches that focus on safety and connecting to the present moment. If you're interested in that angle, I often talk about it on my podcast.
@@JustinLMFT yes it’s just gently stimulating certain areas, ears etc also that exercise that came I think from Stephen Porgrs?? I don’t know, I just try anything to calm my poor nervous system/brain that is trying y o heal but gets overwhelmed by everything….. long story why. I’m interested in anything that might promote this as feeling safe is furthest from me right now, the present moment is awful, but I do understand mindfulness is supposed to help. Thank you for reading and responding to my comment.
@@katyh2599 try medical cbd for ADD/trauma/nerves.
My flatmate just started on it and she said she feels better.
I totally relate, I can barely socialize and it’s just exhausting. I
This happened to me after being repeatedly discarded by an emotionally terroristic covert narcissist. It took a long time to feel anything close to normal. Years later I'm still not right but I can recognize how far I've come. Remember to keep breathing and that you're worth loving. No love will ever compare to the love you can provide and offer yourself.
Been there. Look into psychedelic medicine through mindbloom and the SGB procedure - Stellate Ganglion Block. I am the daughter of a covert narcissist so I know the feeling well.
@@battlehymnoftheempath3610I'm doing Spravato therapy though it has been paused for a while due to my hip surgery.
Sam Vaknin is a fantastic source of information on this matter. He himself has been diagnosed three different times with NPD and is the author of most of the language of the disorder. Just be aware that he has a rather "grounded" approach to things and can come off as insensitive, but he is nothing if not a narcissist of substance, so 100% give his vids a look-see.
@@AlastorTheNPDemon Oh I've been studying him and his research for awhile now. It absolutely blows my mind how he was able to articulate so many details about my relationship with my ex, especially with me being more BPD and her being more NPD. Thank you for the suggestion though and I highly agree that he's worth checking out and knows this subject to a mindboggling level.
I'm going thru this right now. I'm so sorry this happened to you. I'm totally stuck in shut down mode and have been for years. I barely feel anything. I have no impulse to even move. But you're comment at least got me to write a response. So that's something.
As I sit here in shutdown for many hours I finally understand what has been heppening for most of my life………. And it has a name. Thank you
You're very welcome.
I would also call it a catatonic state, where you are staring into space but not seeing. You are moving through a fog. Like automatically one foot in front of the other, like putting on pants one leg at a time. I have been in this state in the past.
Hi! Yes, me too. From 2017 till 2023 it was bad especially till 2020, then it started to get better here and there and now I have more 'good' days than bad but it does still happen and lasts about a good week of pure apathy. I used to think it was severe depression, but my dépression was over. I am diagnosed with trauma and chronic stress since 2012/2013 and try to medicate it away... I thought it was one stage before being catatonic, that's what it felt like. I have been put on psychostimulants and they do help I must say but it's a drastic measure. Although I am just happy that something got me out of that state... like years have past in a blink and all I remember is being inside, lying down, sleeping, staring and worrying what the h was wrong with me...
I recall having to think about in what order I needed to go the bathroom or brush my teeth, I couldn't even get dressed myself anymore. Luckily I have a very close friend who took care of me, like grocery's and meals and some cleaning ... I do not have a steady routine yet but I can do everything myself again like cleaning and administration etc. I do have my sense for order and arrangement back, my social life will be a biggie to rebuild as well as work, in future 🤞🙏👍
I’ve never heard of this before I just happened upon it
Would explain my dreamlike existence…slow mo ,cut off from everyone,no appetite,closed curtains,need to sleep,sleep and sleep some more.can’t be bothered to speak anymore….no desire or energy to do anything,just float through the day if not sleeping,feeling physically unwell and weak …..I’m glad people are leaving me alone.
I feel all of the symptoms you have described. I also just found this site & feel a sense of relief that I can learn different tools to help me pull out of this low mode of living. Sending my thoughts of health & wellness to everyone here! Thank you, Justin!
Yep that’s where I’m at right now 😢
At first I cried and cried and cried when my truck broke down as I am already homeless and can’t afford to fix it and then the other day when my caravan home was badly damaged while being towed by the tow truck, I couldn’t even process the grief anymore and have no more energy to even cry anymore and just feel nothing anymore, completely numb and just want to sleep constantly.
Sounds awwful. I think anyone would be in shutdown after all that.
Bless you. Hope things are getting better. Will say a prayer for you.
I am so sorry. I have been there. Did nothing but sleep and eat for 18 months. Not even sure how I got out of it. Saying healing prayer for you. I'm not really religious but seriously may God bless you.💜
@@rebeccamartin2399 thank you! 🙏
@genatackett2437 thank you 😊
If I'm about to be eaten, a shutdown state is less traumatic than being witness to being devoured.
This state can be correlated with being predated upon by a pathological parent, where shutdown is useful.
At 5 years old I experienced a supernatural trauma, something not of this world, realm, I was so terrified my soul left my body, i could see myself from above in the tree line. Then my soul shot back down inro my body, and I found myself fighting for my life. Terrified, fozen, untill i got up enough courage to run, and hide from it. I never recovered. No one till this day can seem to help me.
GEEZ! 😨
Have you heard of soul retrieval shamanic healing? One session is not necessarily enough, but it can be depending on the person. I do not know a lot about it but it has helped friends of mine to heal parts of their soul that fragmented due to traumatic experiences.
Somatic Experiencing with a trauma therapist could help.
God can help you. I believe you. Pray for healing 🙏
I had a similar experience the past few years. First time was during sleep I had sleep paralysis and could see myself lying in bed asleep with something hovering above me. It scared the s**t out of me (I've had more of those since). The second time was at a therapy session and the therapist triggered me and my soul just left my body and I was watching myself sitting in the chair. It freaked me out. I can't imagine what it must be like to experience it at such a young age. I do hope that at that time someone was there to at least comfort you. I've been doing somatic excercises (Laban/Bartenief, Feldenkrais and such) lately to help me (re)connect with my body. Hope you find what helps you in your healing.
Thank you!!! My doctors called this" psychosis" as they proceeded to lock me up on a psych ward for a week... multiple times! 👀 I was disociated for valid causes, survival mode....NOT crazy but now I think I am. Systematically and insidiously ABUSED!!! Where was/IS the real help for people like us?#IAMASurvivor
Psychedelics are your best bet for healing. Look into it.
@@Robertsmith-un5cu My ex was involved in that research and he did a lot of that type of "healing". Now he has no sense of identity and dresses very strangely. He got *angry* with me when I just said to him that I didn't want to do LSD on that night and I wasn't ready for that kind of experience. After the MDMA research organization he was working with realized the drugs had taken a heavy toll and changed him, they kicked him to the curb! Needless to say I don't believe in that bullshite.
How did they somehow tell you were in a psychosis instead of a trauma response? Were you catatonic or self harming I wish you healing and love I care about you
I was diagnosed as delusional because I was treating myself for a tooth infection with my own antibiotics because I was too afraid to ask for help because of my childhood trauma
You're not alone...
I was in dorsal vagal shutdown earlier this year. I couldnt figure out why or what the heck was wrong with me. It wasnt until a good friend told me that what i was experiencing was abuse from my family. I couldnt recognise it, as i had been raised in an abusive family dynamic. Soon enough, i left and cut all ties. Im out of dorsal vagal shutdown, but currently stuck in mostly freeze/fawn mode
Glad to hear you're working your way up your Polyvagal ladder. Thanks for leaving a comment!
One safety environment f.i. is a clean room.
Five years of memories gone from this
Thank you so much for this Justin. I too have spent much of my life in shutdown, and not knowing what it was, have spent a small fortune trying to get unstuck. I'm so glad science has caught up with trauma at last. Thank you for clarifying shades of grey, and your very helpful suggestions. New subscriber, appreciate you.
You're very welcome, thanks for the comment and the sub!
Dude, i feel like i spent decades in shut down mode, its so sad..
I don’t want to affect my 5 year old with my trauma responses. I’m starting therapy one on one. I’m a healer but I need healing professionally. My d daughter deserves a childhood I never had and I deserve to be happy and free
I love the suggestion of creating a happy safe room with optimized ambience. I've needed to paint my bedroom for a while. This idea can help me take it to another level. As a child I ended up right on the edge between freeze and shutdown. I've been there every day since for 35 years. After decades of uselessly fighting my body to be more active, my healing journey finally improved when I let myself stop. Resting and meditating in an optimized spa-like bedroom sounds amazing. Thank you!
Thank for your comment. Very helpful
Try putting a red light in a small lamp with a timer to turn on in evenings along with a strand of the tiny twinkle lights in a glass dome for ambient lighting. The lighting can be very healing for our brains. ❤
Nobody cares about my condition. When I reach out I get beat up. I dont even want to wake anymore because I cant cope with this much meanness and apathy everyday.
Been feeling this for years now. Tried to raise a severely autistic child with an emotionally abusive spouse, put me in the mental ward 8 days, diagnosed MDD and PTSD. I don’t have the heart palpitations every day since I left child’s dad but raising him on my own with very little help is pretty much killing me. Been going to docs thinking I have cancer but its just stress literally ripping my nerves apart.
I hope you can find some resources to help you with your son. AND I hope you can get some much needed rest and relaxation at times.
Great video…I really relate to the trauma of lack of attachment due to incompetent parenting.
Glad you liked it. Thanks for leaving a comment!
This happened to me earlier this year when l was in hospital seriously ill with covid pneumonia.l nearly died,and my suffering was so great that l deliberately and instinctively knew what to do.Somehow,l knew that to escape the stress for a while ,l had to remove myself to another place.l did this by slowing everything down,my breathing,heart rate,thinking,until l actually went somewhere else.When this happened,apparently the nursing staff thought l had taken a turn for the worse and was possibly dying.l was moved into a single room to be looked after,during this time l was not aware of what was going on,and a few hours later l gradually returned to awareness,realising that l was in a different room.The nurse told me that l had been wide awake,my eyes wide open, but completely out of it.l have absolutely no memory of what happened while l was elsewhere,but this was deliberate on my part,because l had thought that if l didn't do this,then l would likely die.
I have never heard of this before,but had sometimes practiced disassociation,or disconnection,in times of stress.l told my family and doctor about this,the power of the mind is incredible,and l am glad that l now have a scientific explanation to back up what happened to me.
The siituation got so bad for me that I could not even stay awake during the day. All I did was wanting to sleep.
These Energy Vampires are dangerous, but not as dangerous as a person who has survived the trauma they caused us.
I am in psychotherapy now, yes on pills to help eith the anxiety and depression, but they are merely crutches to help me while I am growing stronger.
There is hope, just take the first step and find a therapist who specialises in trauma healing. Thats all, just start there.
i feel like i’m just moving through life and can’t feel a lot . life feels like a lot of hard work
Thank you, maybe learning English was the best investment in myself ever. I think you just started my healing process through your calm explanation of my misery.
Glad you enjoyed it, best of luck!
As a child of cptsd, I spent every summer sitting in the dark watching TV. I still do, to this day, and have wondered what it's about. Was I paralyzed with trauma (yes), and was that why I was stuck on the couch with this dorsal vagal response?😮
I can’t even begin to thank you and your patients for helping elaborate my life experience. I’m 58..in this last 5 months I have had multiple acute episodes of grief, on top of chronic emotional stress. I feel like I’m drowning right now…I can’t get to the surface and get a breath. I’m exhausted.
You're welcome. I hope my other content is helpful for you as well.
Well this is my entire life.. I like how you explain things.
You explained this so well, thank you. It perfectly describes what I’ve experienced but didn’t quite understand. I’ve been doing jiu jitsu for several months and it has been incredibly healing for me. It feels like I’m beginning to take back ownership of my body after being in a shutdown/dissociated state due to trauma for a very long time. Jiu jitsu forces me to go into fight or flight mode in a safe and controlled environment.
Glad you enjoyed it. Good luck on your journey!
That reminded me of the one time I attended a ju-jitsu class years ago. I didn't realize at the time the impact it was making to my nervous system. Though I did feel a sense of empowerment having learned a few strategic maneuvers to escape being pinned down. Afterwards, feeling a strong sense that girls, boys and women, all should learn this self defense style to effectively prevent rape and protect themselves. Unfortunately incest takes on a whole different form where no black belt protects children from it. It's boundaries and parental protection at all cost, no matter what, and the sense of safety and protection from them when/if it arises. I hate what parents do to their children when we run to them for shelter and protection. Those parents are a whole different breed, I can't wrap my head around.
Though I had a positive experience with the one-time class, I haven't persued it, and my husband teaches it. lol In 2014 he was the coach for the US team to the Championships in Paris.
I’ve experienced this many times.
Another AWESOME episode…👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Thank you 🙏🏽 for sharing 🤴🏼
You explained it way better than I could.
This really helps me understand why i stayed with a man who raped me 6 months into our relationship when we had just moved in together. I froze in the midst of it, but then i ended up in a shutdown state that made it impossible to get out. Growing up in an abusive home laid the groundwork. I am finally preparing to leave after years of repressing my trauma and enduring repeated sexual coercion for way too long. I am trying to get therapy. On a 3 month wait list. But i am going to get to a place where i feel safe. I will not give up.
Just listening to your calm voice brings a feeling of safety.
Interesting, thanks for sharing. I'm a shamanic practitioner and this reminds me of some of the work we do in shamanism too.
Well, this explains and me to myself a bit more.. meditation does do the job.. with my state i can relt on guided mediations or relaxations..but if your super sensitive like me fussy on voice choice and sounds and levels of soundtrack to voiceover .. it can ve hell.
Lighting and sound can change everything for me!
Amazing dimmable lighting.. colour changing portable lights keep me calm sane and safe..
I've been looking into NLP techniques more and more and this is all coming together and i think that this year i will fix and sharp myslef up more than i realise - thanks to people like You - grateful and glad to find you today. 💙🌎💜
I only found this term a fww days ago. This has been an issue for 5 years now, its why i was let go from my job and put on disability. After a lifetime of constant traumas, chronic illnesses and never being allowed to heal brought me to the point of any trigger causing me to collapse. Very thankful for this video and i am trying to learn more about this so i can get better. One of my last therapists had just said "let's just ackthat this happens" when i asked how we could try getting me to a state of a less intense response to any little trigger.
Try Irene Lyon
You have a very warm calming voice. So glad I found your channel
That means so much, thank you for the kind words!
Thank you for what you do ❤
You are so welcome!
sounds like i went through something similar last week,just some shock news type thing,couled with my underlying mdd/anxiety disorder,felt like an instant depressive episode,so i went to basic living,sat in low light room next to heater,comfort ate,all sensory minimal levels,mindfulness,reached out for help,cried,the low mood,lethargy mixed with the high anxiety catastrophising panic is hard to shift.but im trying to self soothe,take back what i can control,and think in a minimal straight line.
Can you have a lot of physical sensations too? I am disconnected to myself and the world but also have extreme fatigue, heaviness in my body, headaches. If I push myself to do anything it all gets worse and I have an immense instinct to go back to my bed and shut the door. Is this shutdown?
Shutdown does often have a numbness of sensations. And I can't tell you what state you are in. My shutdown clients often describe not having energy, and wanting to be alone in bed.
Thank you so much, I'm loving the content, it's very helpful. The world I perceive needs this,😍
You're so welcome!
Thank you so much for this information. I now understand more of what is going on for me and, more importantly, I have hope of resolving it. thank you.
Excellent! Thank for watching and leaving a comment. :)
Great job on this from a fellow coach. Your website is also so well done.
Thank you! I'm overhauling the site now and about to relaunch it. :)
Namaste & Thank You very clearly emplained You are a Gift to the world Bless You and all who read this and watch your videos
thanks for the kindness :)
Very helpful that clarified freeze with sympathetic activity vs dorsal vagal shutdown
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you for this superbly produced caring video. The pacing and insights are terrific. I've been studying trauma for years especially freeze state. I look forward to learning more from you as this is my first episode on your channel. Your gentle style is appreciated as is the turtle and shell analogy. I'm starting to glimpse a flicker of light at the end of the tunnel. Thank you for that Justin. 💕🎶😉⛱️
You're so welcome, thank you for leaving a comment and sharing your thoughts!
I really like the sound of your voice and how you speak, it's soothing. I'm watching this as I got triggered and I find it easy and calming to just listen.
Wow, thank you! Really glad my voice helps. :)
Thank you. Just randomly saw this on RUclips. Been like this since December when mum died who I used to care for full time for years with no help or break. She had complex needs . She had an awful death that it traumatised me. I’m 58 and my siblings have been brutal even when mums body was still laying there to be collected. They want me out of the house which is my home also so they can sell it and get their share of the proceeds asap. I will get my share but it’s nowhere near enough for me to buy even a tiny studio once it’s split. I’ve been traumatised about mums death, how she died, losing my home soon and how awful my siblings have been and being to me. I went from having a dangerous heartbeat for 3 weeks after she died I thought I was going to have a heart attack or stroke and called the GP. This then turned to depression and me completely shutting the world out and not being able to deal being around anyone. Luckily the benefit place has okayed I’m not well enough able to work at least. I’m now in a rush to come out of it as am going to be homeless soon one way or another and the thought of being around people still scares me. Not sure where to go from here but it’s good to hear that this is a pretty normal reaction. I feel as though I’m dealing with multiple traumas. My siblings really have no sympathy or compassion and just makes things worse for me thinking I’m just being lazy not working the last few months but I’ve been traumatised and still am with everything. At least this has a name and I can go about how to try improving my mental health now.
Very well explained - thank you 🙏
Glad it was helpful!
Amazing! I've had no idea about this 'state'. This explains the effects my work colleagues have had on me! Counsellors misusing their power! Who would have thought! Good to know there is recovery and empowerment with knowledge in spotting it if it happens again and to know what to do. Thank you 🌸
You’re welcome!
Thank you. This explained exactly what I've been experiencing for over 10years.
My new therapist has insight into the Dorsal Vagal Shutdown, and mentioned that she thinks that's what I'm experiencing. Which is why I'm here watching your video. I feel hopeful.
You're very welcome.
Recovery from this is possible although it may not feel like it at first
I’m shutdown and it’s a long road out. Appreciate the video - very helpful
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you. ❤
Very Good info, I've had this response since I was 7 yrs. Old
Balled into a fetal position for days. I'm 58 now, I've done ok but I am very severe. Your info about experiences and your knowledge was very helpful. Says alot since the subject is so misuderstood, and undiagnosed.
Really glad you like the video, thanks for watching and for the comment.
I am clocking this with myself. I just went through another take down the beginning of this last week and am having a very difficult time functioning-it takes weeks for me to get out of this phase of neuro hit. *it used to take months
People who are abusive want us to be in this state so they can feed on our emotions/energy. Often they will take our reaction and present it as THEIR state of emotion/emotional state which is super gross and predatory. Just my observations.
I have lost everything and am filled with dread and despair. Cognitively I know this will pass and that it is a normal neuro response to the abuse. I cannot leave.
My whole life it seems, I’ve been in DV shutdown. I was a forcepped baby, does make me wonder.
I was told I was suctioned out of my mother's womb but I suspect I had a twin (don't know if it was male or female) and maybe that caused my twin evisceration (me being born first and the baby having the umbilical cord pulled out).
I say it because my father was an eye doctor and I found pictures of a newborn baby eviscerated. I asked my mother many times if I had a dead twin. Every time I asked that simple question which only requires a yes or not answer she said I was crazy (my mother is a malignant narcissist) and I always answered her: "forget about if I'm crazy or not, I'm just asking a question you can answer with a yes or a no".
Then, she would shut her thin lips as if she was afraid some truth can come out from her mouth...I never had an answer but I know I am pointing to a truth she doesn't want to admit.
Besides that picture (which doesn't fit into my father's medical speciality) I had other trace from one of my elder sisters mocking me calling me "the aborted baby" and when I asked my mother she said she had a natural abortion before and after getting pregnant of me which added to my stigmatization since birth.
Maybe she promised my father never say a word but seems strange to me a malignant narcissist being loyal to anyone, even if my father was her primary source of supply.
@@Lyrielonwind 🙏♥️🙏
I think this is something I deal with but never heard of it. Thing is I run into lots of bullying and when I go to some emotionally immature family for help, I get attacked and blamed. I recently went through something bad and when I went to my family, they really brought back lots of behavior that have caused me tons of damage.
I was attacked while in college and had to drop out being I couldn't get myself to function. I think a big part is that those I go to for help cause more harm being their own issues.
I think I'm in shutdown now and am trying to get myself out before I slide too far.
I was even thinking about making this a part of my studies, thanks. Brilliant work
You're welcome, I hope you find what you're looking for.
Thank you. Was miserable today
You're welcome.
This sounds like what I went through during a dark night of the Soul.
Yes! When my daughter cut me off contact to my grandchildren. I kept feeling like i want sure if i was here or if i was dreaming. I was afraid to go to the toilet because i thought i might wet the bed!!!
A friend of mine has not left her bed in over a year, doesn’t socialise with anyone ,only talks over the phone ,and not that often… Her family member,was arrested and her home raided by armed police ,just before all this started.. she says, she just can’t get out of the bed ,every day she says, she tries… I’m just wondering could she be dealing with shut down.. I honestly don’t know how to help and it’s over a year now🤷🏽♀️
There is this lady called The Workout Witch who has somatic exercises here on RUclips. She has a 5-bundle course you can buy (I bought it and really like it) but she has lots of free videos and if your friend watched even just her shorts she'd learn some of the exercises. They are short and simple. They help to get you out of freeze mode. I thought of mentioning it because they can be done in bed and help to release trauma. It doesn't happen automatically but can happen in a few days to a couple of weeks and then you'll get more mobility. Worth a try
lol planning on getting a stellate ganglion block procedure. I will need CBT afterwards. Thanks for the education.
Is my phone reading my mind? I was just thinking about this an hour ago, but i didn’t know the term. The word 'catatonic' was going around in my mind. I haven't left the house since December. I am very mentally ill.
Great video. Thank you 🇬🇧
you're welcome :)
Very helpful, thank you
Glad it was helpful!
I did this today at the bank while waiting for a solution to another bs problem. For me it’s all about energy conservation.
Interesting. Thank you.
Welcome!
This has happened to me many times.
Thank you : )
You are welcome!
I think I was potentially in Dorsal vagal shutdown for 17 years. I can assure you, If I am right, eating and phone scrolling is not the most of my concerns when I may be regaining my fight/flight energy. How to respect peoples boundaries with this seemingly enormous wave is my biggest concern. The last time it happened, it probably developed a bout of psychosis leading to my hospitalisation and resignation from work. I lost a character reference, which means difficulty rejoining the work place, I am now volunteering and am managing slowly to get into reading and gym, but as I make concious decisions to improve my mental state, I am not met with favourable outcomes. I am met, by what feels like a deep anger. If I do not get it under control, I will lose the volunteer position, and really be up shits creak without a paddle. There seems to be a disjunction between potential severity of the outcomes of the Dorsal Vagal shutdown (DVS), I would assume I am at a more severe stage of it than that which leads to what sounds to me like a nice way to relax, If I am right that what I have experienced is DVS. Any tips?
So this crazy… now I know why I have depersonalization/Derealizaton not just from anxiety and panic attacks but THIS! I just looked it up and it literally said this was the main cause! Now on how to treat it idk. But everyone and I mean everyone is telling me to do acupuncture is this correct? Thank you very much! ❤
I really can't speak to the efficacy of accupunture and shutdown. I did create this though - ruclips.net/video/LlEHULEfYhs/видео.html
Thanks a lot for your explanations!
I wonder why my thoughts are gone it's completely blank...is it a connected to the shutdown?
Greetings from Germany ☀️
I get disassociated in traumatic events like after a car accident when I was pregnant (not injured at all but worried about baby) and my blood pressure went so low the EMT’s said I should be dead- kept rechecking and rushed me to hospital. I think it Happened again during c section in two pregnancies after days of labor. I know it’s nothing compared to super traumatic occurrences. But clearly my body didn’t differentiate. So it’s a physiological process for sure. Would love to know ways to mitigate. ❤
*not sure if it’s the same but I’ve also had a NDE almost drowning at 2 years old and remember watching myself from above and feeling like I could breathe then cut to being rescued and coughing water like don’t remember the in between. I was scared in the bath and pools on and off for a while- just mildly but frightened something could get me. And I dissociate / panic attack when public speaking - also not sure if it’s the same
I have a strange cycle of nervous agitation/excitement (mania) which amps up until I crash, which is when I hace a mwlt down, then shut down. Hysterical, ctatonic, eventually devolving into cataplexy (limp)
I'm only familiar with the vagus shutdown that causes me to fall unconscious. It's happened 3 times and it usually starts with a bad stomach ache - one time it was after I hite my funny bone and then I wake up on the floor with some wicked bruises. It's too expensive to get studies done so I just deal with whatever it is. It happens so rarely anyways.
OMG, never heard of it. I have HPA axis dysfunction from chronic stress over my long life, but i never shut down..really scary. 3:22
I feel like I'm in between freeze and shutdown...I have a chronically ill child and since 2024 arrived, I've just lost the ability to cope with her illness and my worries about it. Now the stress of my business is hitting me and dealing with all of her various issues...and worrying about how she'll live in this world when she can barely get out of bed for 6 years now.
That sounds horrendous, the amount of pressure. Too much. I cannot imagine how helpless you must feel with your child being so unwell. Life can be so cruel. It's so unfair.
@@vanessas2363 thank you - yes life is very hard!
Is this the same as when you try to keep the emotions down because they are too scary or not the right time for them to come up? I feel like it became a maladaptive coping skill for me to manage anxiety and fears and now i unconsciously just tighten up when the fight flight energy comes. So its like the foot on the brake and the pedal. It gives me so much anxiety because i feel so dysfunctional and dysregulated. And the freeze is so tight and doesnt let the fight flight go out. Takes me hours or days to regulate.
"Freeze" and "shutdown" are different. Freeze is the brake and the gas on at the same time. Shutdown is like the car isn't even starting.
@@JustinLMFT any tips for changing the freeze behavior?
@@JustinLMFT Is it common to go from Freeze to Shutdown?
Yes Wow ever knew about this
Thanks for explaining the difference between freeze and dorsal vagal. I thought they were the same thing and they are often displayed that way by many other RUclipsrs, so thanks for clarifying. Is there one standout element that one could use to determine whether they are in just dorsal or the mixed freeze state?
You're welcome! One element to easily determine is to look at the level/flavor of mobility and immobility. Shutdown is a collapsed immobilization. Freeze is a tense immobilization. In freeze, the muscles are tensed, heart rate is high and breathing is rapid, like a panic attack. Thanks for the comment and the question!
@@JustinLMFT
I guess I'm in dorsal vagal because sometimes I feel like I am barely breathing. I surprise myself not breathing or breathing superficially although my muscles are rigid.
Thanks
@@Lyrielonwinddealing with same; just learned about “central sleep apnea.”
What about Caregiver burnout doing Palliative care then going through Grief
Just finding this video after finding out my partner of 10 years has been having 2 affairs outside our relationship and he then left to go live in an apartment with one of the women. I feel numb then emotional pain that keeps me sobbing in bed and it’s after that where I shut down. I lay perfectly still in bed and barely breathe but I can’t sleep. I feel like my skin is trying to lift off my body - it’s been three days since I found out and I don’t want to be conscious because there are no other thoughts except for him and what happened.
This seems to be what happens in autistic shutdown
It feels like locked in syndrom. Powerless.
st of my life has been in shut down. Wish i could cry, scream, shake
Sorry to hear that, wishing you the best. I have lots of content on PVT and shutdown. I'll most likely focus more on shutdown in the future as this seems to be what people are most pulled toward.
Do you have Any videos on the freeze state like tense shutdowns? That’s What I struggle with and I want to learn about it
Yep. And I collected them all in my free Members Center on JustinLMFT.com. I have a "Freeze Learning Hub" there that might have something helpful for you. Good luck!
Understanding Kacy cutt off I'm not shutting down and I haven't forgotten anything
Thanks for this video Justin! I'm struggling to know if I'm just tired or if my NS is just so automatically used to going into shutdown (I have a history of depression) that it's just really subtle. Is there a resource that can help me identify if I'm just tired or if I'm in light shutdown? Thanks again!
A resource? Not that I know of. But these questions might be helpful to reflect on -
“After I sleep/rest, do I feel rested/refreshed?”
“When I feel tired, do I also feel like giving up, isolating, hiding, or like nothing matters?”
Thank you
You're welcome. :)
Every week
I’m an educator. I’m currently teaching a course as part of SEL (social emotional learning). I’ve included a unit on trauma. Since you’ve shared this on RUclips do I have your permission to share with my students? I have registered on your website.
yeah please do. thanks for asking. but all of my free stuff is free to share!
Can chronic fatigue actually be a form of dorsal vagal shutdown? Secondly, can you get a diagnosis for dorsal vagal shutdown? Thank you
Through the Polyvagal Theory lens, chronic fatigue could be a result of shutdown. And no, dorsal vagal shutdown is not a diagnosis, but it may result in medical issues.
Great question. Based on the numerous recovery stories of people recovering from chronic fatigue syndrome via meditation, breathing etc I strongly think that CFS is a dorsal shut down/freeze. @JustinLMFT: would be great to hear what you think. Thanks.
Pay attention to your GUT HEALTH to help mental and emotional health! Dr Amen is a good resource
How about the dark night of the soul and a covert narcissistic would that make some one go into shutdown mode basically
Below I refer to myself in the third person.
It is a transcription of a real-life encounter/experience.
A waking-dream. One I had with Jesus...
Jesus will lead the way; she doesn’t need to do anything.
Jesus, what would you like to do next?
Going to sit with her on the sand...
She sees the word 'pure'
written in the sand.
It is confusing for her.
What does it feel like to go out on the water with Jesus?
It feels like a crazy ride!
Feels happy, magical, miraculous, confusing etc.
She feels secure with him,
but fears that Jesus won’t be here forever
and she’ll be alone.
Jesus what would you like to say in response?
He knows how alone she feels, but she’s never alone,
Jesus is always with her; will never leave her;
they are a part of each other.
We are one and she is never, ever alone.
There has been someone who has been a source of pain.
I’m going to take him to see her; to unite them.
She sees Bryan who was her best friend and they are embracing.
Bryan is all in black and his hair is down and they are embracing.
There is an innocence to him and he didn’t mean any harm,
even though he harmed her so much; he didn’t mean it.
There is a connection that goes beyond their bodies;
their souls are connected.
Bryan is just trying to calm her and to let her know it is okay.
Jesus loves him just as much as he loves her.
Bryan is as much his son and she is his daughter.
Now they are transported into a courtroom; Jesus is the judge;
they are on opposite sides; Bryan and she are on trial.
Bryan is pleading his case. She is just sobbing.
She is being shown the victim she has been;
she keeps carrying that, while Bryan pleads his case.
She can’t bear the pain so she just sobs.
She is perpetually in victim mode.
Jesus is smiling; watching the way you might watch a TV show.
He is detached. There is no right or wrong.
Beaming smile; tells Bryan to come over to her;
She can see light around him like he is an angel in disguise.
He is sorry for her pain. This is all part of a greater plan.
Bryan embraces her and she looks into his eyes.
Clarity beams. But her mind can’t catch up and she is confused.
Now they sit down on her side of the courtroom next to each other;
now they are on the same side of the trial; holding hands.
Jesus is just loving this -
getting a kick out of it;
he is excited and happy;
but she hasn’t fully caught up.
It is perfectly okay; he sees her pain -
what her soul knows
but her mind can’t catch up...
And in between the two: there is panic.
She hears him saying, "I am in the waves."
What movie are you and Jesus going to go see?
She sees Bryan running toward the theatre to catch up...
She sees what Jesus wants to show her;
scenes that come up;
memories that pop up - some terrify her;
they cause her panic.
Bryan is excited to watch
as if it is an interesting movie.
She’s in the middle of the two of them and she is paralyzed with fear.
She sees Jesus getting her all propped up;
massaged; favorite drink, favorite food;
calm relaxed comfortable;
Bryan is okay;
She is not watching this alone.
It's perfectly okay.
She is seeing memories that terrify her;
She is constantly scared of her past;
it haunts her and it paralyzes her;
She sees Bryan loving it.
Jesus wants her to see all these things in a different way.
They are moving to the back of the theatre
where it will be less overwhelming.
Bryan is staying at the front.
He wants her to see the scenes of her life that terrify her
and that Jesus and the angels were always with her.
It's too much.
She feels overwhelmed.
It's confusing.
She wants to see but she’s feeling overwhelmed.
She sees that Bryan comes to the back of the theatre
and sits on the other side of her;
Jesus holds her hand and looks at Bryan with a look of knowing.
She sees herself getting smaller, child-size.
She is getting bigger now and she is sitting cross-legged.
He loves her prayer - about lifting the veil of fear -
she will see things differently.
She sees Bryan enjoying the movie because he is detached.
Jesus wants her to learn detachment.
She gets so sucked into the memories and she gets panicked.
Good or bad memory doesn’t matter.
She is seeing clear that she can just watch memories like a movie.
None of it is real; that’s the title of the movie;
dragons across the screen.
And Jesus is just getting a kick out of it;
He is watching her catch up to it.
She hugs Jesus and she cries in his arms.
She’s telling him that she is so scared;
she doesn’t want to be here anymore.
Jesus responds;
"it is not your time baby girl;
so much more to see
and more to do."
He is going to helps her emerge from this cocoon phase
into a butterfly.
She wants Jesus to explain why he let Bryan hurt her;
to explain all the traumas in her life; she is sobbing.
She feels so much love and compassion
but doesn’t get sucked into the story.
He sees her as perfect.
Now there are so many angels in the movie theatre;
full bright, white amazing wings.
The whole theatre is lined with these angels.
God says that they are all here for you.
Bryan is still eating his popcorn and enthralled with the movie.
Jesus is so happy watching her watch the angels.
Jesus is tuning her voice - he wants her to use her voice
and to stop repressing and suppressing it.
The angels are going to help her to release her voice.
The attachment to the memories
is because her voice hasn’t been released.
Angelic music is coming out of her voice as it gets finely tuned;
now Bryan is noticing her, not just the movie.
She is being lifted higher and higher as she sings:
angelic sounds coming from her voice;
God is showing her it is time to use her voice.
She feels panic because she is the one
who must do what has never been done before;
a blessing and opportunity;
a burden; it is so big.
Now he is showing her with her sister;
needs to have a conversation with her sister;
so much of it starts there - how much love there is between them.
Jesus will be there for both of them 100%.
So much will be released once this conversation has happened.
She keeps praying - that whoever God has ordained as her husband
that they be united. Once she has a conversation,
that her voice isn’t suppressed;
the gifts will be released
including this ordained husband.
It is confusing. God still has work for her to do.
She is so tired and cannot do anymore,
but God is showing her the pathway forward...
She sees this man waiting for her in the wings.
The bridge between there and here are the things she needs to do -
this conversation; angels are there; divinely orchestrated.
She needs to surrender to God more and more;
hanging on is keeping her panicked.
What is Jesus doing now?
He is leaving - he is ascending into the sky;
He is physically leaving but the sense of him is deep in her heart;
a small version of himself is in her heart.
She wants Bryan to stay but he has to go too.
He kisses her on the cheek and he ascends.
Bryan has his own path.
Time to release her voice;
to release Bryan;
to have a conversation with her sister.
Jesus is lifting something out of her;
he is pulling it out of her -
she is carrying stuff that isn’t even hers
and is centuries old
and he is lifting it all out of her.
What is Jesus doing now?
She was feeling panic and an immediate desire to reach for Bryan.
God is carrying a corkscrew; He is showing her a tool.
Flooded with panic and memories and a desire to reach for Bryan...
Jesus has the tools and he can fix anything, all the time.
Turn back to him when she wants to reach for Bryan -
nothing that he can’t fix; gentle with your heart;
hold on; hold that space.
He has every tool needed to fix anything and everything.
She is giving Jesus a big hug.
She is getting a greater sense of hope for the future.
Now glimmers of hope through the despair.
At an airport and Jesus is walking with a huge set of scissors
severing the strings between Bryan and her.
Jesus is severing all those ties.
She is going to experience new freedom
without being attached by these cords.
Jesus is showing her how much more freedom.
To get to what she prays for:
to get to uniting with the man that God has ordained for her:
- Sever ties to Bryan
- Conversation with sister
- Use of voice
He has something so much greater for her.
Her connection to Bryan was just there for a time.
He has something so much better for her, a healthy connection.
She won’t be alone forever.
She is in the cocooning now
and he will help her through the work that she needs to do.
He is showing her that Bryan was a symbol of what she could have -
way more profoundly aligned with her.
He was there so she could see that there is more for her
beyond these unhealthy ways.
God is going now
but he is also staying within her.
A blessing from Jesus? Chunks of gold.
She is going through the fire and on the other side of the fire is gold;
gold goes through the fire.
Thank you for the blessing…
It is clear what the blessing is.
There are little flecks of gold in each memory - look for them.
He will help her find it. She sees that in each memory;
if she looks closely at each memory - they contain love.
A phoenix rising from the ashes - and she is that -
she needs to hold to that. On the other side is the gold...