Always be the attacker. Tier 5 Skaven siege as Dwarfs
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
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"Its not my problem to solve your disaster battles"
TOTAL WAR, Legend - 2020 (While solving someone's battle)
You prolly dont care but does any of you know of a tool to log back into an instagram account??
I stupidly lost my password. I would appreciate any tricks you can give me!
@Zayne Maxwell instablaster =)
There's actually an even dumber settlement layout than this, and it's Khemri. There's a great big hill one side of the city that's higher than the walls and lets you plant even artillery with flat arcs like organ guns and fire down into the city and onto the walls.
There are a few TK cities with the same layout, but yeah, Khemri's layout is so dumb.
You can also abuse that hill to very easily waste their ammo, because it's just in range of their arty and archers
The best is depth gunner my god the melt that settlement. Was one of my favourite things in my count noctulus campaign
a few high/dark elf cities like that also.
destroying a skaven base using sewer gates is pretty much the pinnacle of grudge-settling.
:DDD
LoTR style
Emperor of Byzantium to Sultan Mehmet the Great: "But Sultan, not everyone cheeses sieges like you"
_fucking loses_
I think He was called Alexander
Constantinople Beats a light infantry Attack: oh thank god its over
Ottomans: and another one
I've found that the best way to siege is to have as many banners as possible attached to units
Don't forget having as many control groups as possible! If you give each unit its own control group, you literally can't lose.
@@tntaclegrape Ahhh of course! How daft of me to forget.
Ive also found that cavalry are some of the most effective units for sieging settlements, especially missle cav
Whats a control group? And how would you use it
@@tychoschenkels7841 especially missile in meele
"I have less sympathy for people that are lactose intolerant."
Brilliant lol
But cheese is (mostly) Lactose free? The harder the cheese the less Lactose it contains
@@devidbaguetta4803 That is true, but you get his meaning.
@@devidbaguetta4803 Legend is purveyor of only the freshest, creamiest cheeses.
Cheesing is tactics! It was Napoleon who said "never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake". Awesome to see a siege attack, since most of my Empire games are full of them. Keep being awesome Legend!
love clearing out fort walls with mortars in empire. those fire shells and the quicklime shells just fuck 'em up
When I play a game like this I like to think of all these little soldiers as my own men, and do my damnest to make sure as many men survive as possible. Throwing your men into a battle just because you CAN goes back to WWI tactics.
then do the cheese with single entity units
I loved my plague priest like my son. He was like a father to me
To be fair, blasting the enemy to smithereens with artillery before sending in your men ALSO goes back to WWI tactics.
Unless you're playing skaven or undead
@@Oliolli3 The reason this didn't work in WWI is because the enemy _wasn't blown to smithereens._
So when you tried to send your guys in - *SURPRISEBUTTSEX* 👍⚰️
Thank you for covering my battle, legend! I actually managed to win this one after 15 or so attempts, looking for multiple spots to deal with menace+bombs and artillery. I didn't attack as I thought it would be better to lure them out to utilize organs. The next thing I came across is I simply run out of ammo :)
People that cry "this is cheese" have no idea the amount of lactose was used in real life historical battles. Keep up the good shit, Legend!
Graveyards are full of heroes.
People digging tunnels and rigging them with explosives = real life cheese!
22:10 you just went from cheese lord to cheese god
even finding some bugs wow
I like that he shit-talks this settlement to no end before this. After finding this bug, it's not even a challenge anymore.
Once I saw you comment i knew that he's going to find that bug. It works in any settlement like this, not only skaven.
I hope CA never patch this. I found this out almost the moment war2 was released and has been my favourite settlement to attack ever since.
This settlement is so absolutely bad. If you set up at that corner, you gan get people on the wall without getting into the towerarc once. The faceside of that wall can be laddered, and the tower cant hit you there.
Also, a similar bug: you can cast magic-missile spells throught walls unhindered
Sewers are a feature, not a bug =D
Legend of Shooting Stationary Targets for 50 minutes
Stunted half men cant siege mighty rat house!
Damn right skipper!
"Sneaky clan-rats shatter-kill half-men gunners, hurty axes chop-slash face! Throw-explode Warp-bomb, kill metal half-men!"
I love how Scaven talk, it's so awesome.
16:07 "Mmm but it's cheese" - half of all the comments on legend's videos
"The best way to do a siege is to weaken your enemies defenses as much as possible before moving into the city" *glances at his Kholek army that just bullrushes the walls and breaks into the city ASAP* hmmmm
Let's be real though: if Chaos didn't have a terrible eco, Legend would probably consider Dragon Shaggoths his most favorite faction
It's not chaos gas an easy to weaken defenses at range. You cant exactly bring a hell cannon stack.
Saying "then lose" to the people that dont cheese. I am all for it. Cheesing is just using the game to beat the game. If you want to make it harder on yourself then that is fine. But don't try to limit others with you oh so honorable combat.
I think it would be better to implore the devs to make a game that can't be cheesed in such silly ways.
Well, i mean, the factions are BS'ing themselves before the player is even involved.
Bretonnians should not use bows or any ranged weapons, but they limit that "rule" to technically being only for the nobles / knights, which means peasants can use bows as much as they want because, well, they are lowly peasants.
Though Bretonnia is worse than Soviet Union lore-wise.
Edit : If you think about it lore-wise, Skaven would not just rush in before bombing the hell out of the settlement which means almost all defenders die before they unleash the vermintide to murder everything.
Dwarfs would not even bother to siege, they'd be defending their mountain homes.
In the end there'd not really be too many factions in the game / lore that'd go for world conquest and even if they did they would spam the hell out of artillery and ranged units before rushing in.
When CA idea of difficulty is cheating the fuck out of the game instead of actually improving the AI the only sensible answer is to cheese. If you want "honorable combat", play the game at lower difficulty. Better AI would not only make cheesing imposible but also not needed since you would not be facing armies with stats boosted through the roof.
13:40 I have a fun cheese that I do. After taking out the tower i open up a wall first, then while my arty does its thing, I charge my lord and melee heroes into the breach at the unit that is usually there protecting the wall breach. Then I immediately pull them back out and often the defenders will follow you outside the walls where I have a archers/gunners waiting to demolish them. Rinse and repeat. Lizardmen are especially susceptible to this, since they will send their stegs or carnos to attack your lord and let themselves be lured out.
"We need to be careful about getting these rats to half health"
>Targets them with thunderers
"Cheesing sieges" is historically the only way to succeed
People who don't like cheese would also think that carrying your ships over land to get past a fort is also cheesy
21:30
Legend discovers another fault in this settlement.
You can just shoot through the wall.
15:35
Legend: "tiny target like that"
Runelord "not some smith" Durak Drakebeard: *pulls pen from beard, lick the tip, writes grudge on the palm, spiteful gaze on the floating cam*
I love seeing Legend doing these disaster battles/campaigns after lunch, his voice and monotonic tone whilst explaining and solving the situation is amazing to relax and take a quick nap under the cork oak
About cheesing: The best way to stop cheesing is a better AI. That would be elegant and challenging. I think that in a century where chess programs can beat any living human master chess player it would be certainly possible to create an AI that would beat any living total war player. I heard somewhere that the gaming-companies could indeed implement such an AI but they would rather not because then no one would stand a chance. I dunno whether that is true or not but here you have it. ;-)
I feel like with the "but legend, not everybody cheeses sieges like you do" we have reached your apotheosis. The classic banter I crave, without brand damage. I'm so chuffed with you Legend.
I sieged the Lizardman version of this settlement the other day with Ikit. The army inside included Kroxigors, a Carnosaur, and three Stegadons, with assorted others. Knocked out the two towers with catapults, put the Jezzails on the side to just hit whatever they could on the parapets (which surprisingly turned out to be a lot). Snuck some Warpgrinders up to the door and knocked it down while using their abilities on the wall skinks before knocking down two more sections of wall with them. Warpfire Throwers in the gates fried the Carnosaurs, Stegadons, and the Lord. Ratling Guns in the breaches did the rest of the work. Only entered the settlement once by crispy mistake, and the only unit to escape relatively unscathed were Terradons. 17 casualties... and 9 of those were from friendly fire.
Also, Snickitch is a generic Lord/Hero, learn to say Sniktch.
That was some amazing game knowledge and execution of that knowledge. I have become much better at the game since I started watching your videos a few weeks back.
"thats some lord of the rings shit right there"
"is this it? is this all you can conjure legend?"
Funny thing is, that he actually can not do this (so good) again with the same lord and this army because he got the "Deathmaster by Nature Trait" after this battle. The lord will be hidden unless he gets close enough to the walls so he gets descovered by the units on top. So he basically have to get the mentioned engineer or another hero that is visible for this particular army. If he doesn't he will be having a nasty surprise in the next siege, when his artillery gets rect by the towers.
Hi Legend, you could also consider opening up the front gate / make a breach and that will allow you line of sight on their higher value units towards the back / cap point. That’s what i do anyway especially once their arty is dead / out of ammo
21:44 - legend's skaven laugh..yeah, its ironic for this battle
pogchamp dwarfs have depleted uranium super-penetrator fin-stabilized sabot rounds in their organ guns
Hi Legend, I support everything you did in this siege, one thing i like to do is use my hero in the breach to draw blobs for my organ guns to mow down as they usually miss the single entity hero and it gives them a lot more to shoot at
And yes Master Engineer is a must! With hero skills as well you can get organs up to 1000+ missile damage
If you run one of your characters into a breach and run right back out after a unit starts charging them, you can pull units in front of the walls and just shoot them with the thunderers.
I sometimes use heroes to cheese the seiges, works very well if you aren't trying to take the settlement in one turn or struggling to take down the towers quick enough. Get two heroes to damage the walls then beseige the settlement, end the turn. Next turn withdraw from the seige then damage walls again, followed by reseiging. This stops the AI repairing the walls between turns and when it comes to the battle you will have 100% damage to walls and towers.
This was so helpful in seeing how you deal with the menace below. Thanks!
Bro.
Fucking gratz on 250K subs for a freaking Total War channel man!
Seriously well done. I enjoy your videos, I enjoy you, keep it up!
Nothing could be more mistaken than to defend oneself. That is just what the Skaven wants. He can conjure a new Clanrat pack every minute for the enemy to respond to, and the result is that the enemy spends so much time fighting trash units that he has no time to do what the Skaven really fears: to attack his heroes and weapon teams.
Menace from below + warpbomb = The only reason I hate sieging, tier 3+, Skaven cities... The A.I. sure knows how to use it.
The best way I have found to deal with the Menace Below is just to let them run into my infantry regiment and they generally break before losing 50% of the spawn (I normally play on hard or very hard). Don't give attack commands and don't chase them. It works for me at least. I cover the artillery crews with my infantry units as well, it's easy to cover the crew and keep the guns firing.
12:50 If people didn't want the job to get done, maybe they shouldn't have come to you.
That feeling when notifications finally work :D
when you realized you could shoot through walls(total cheese), I definitely heard some skaven in your voice!!! LOL
Lol, just a random thought, can thunderers also fire through the ghost wall? XD
Every ounce of my body wants to drop a Fire Storm in the middle of the blob on the left.
"melee should be your last resort, especially if you are playing dwarves"
OI, WAZZAT HUMIE SAYIN?????
looks like a child took the "skaven meat" crayon and scribbled all over the left side
_"If you got a way of siegeing that's better than this, by all means, do that and tell me about it, 'cause i'd start doing it.[...]"_
13:36
Well... strictly speaking, using a Runepriest (or more) before hand to weaken the Walls to 0% is a better way to do siege : no towers, no walls and a lot of entrances for you to plan your attack. Add three high level Master Engineers to the mix, whose skills at uppgrading range, damages and ammunition of missile units do stack over one another and whatever the ennemy's got behind the (holed) walls will basically die under a rain of death.
If you are feeling even more ballsy (or got drunk outta your ass) you keep the engineers but try replacing the Ironbreakers and Thunderers with Irondrakes and/or Gyrocopters/Gyrobombers. Hell, you could even go for mass rangers (including the axe throwing ones.)
Currently playing as skraven.
I normally take out towers and then take out some walls. Use magic and artillery on archers and ranged units. Once most of the ranged units are down. Some gun ranged units can shoot over the rubble (where walls fall), it's super cheesy.
Or shoot down the gate and have ranged units in front of it. Slowly kite units in front of the gate using holes in the wall.
You can also use hero units to bring more units toward your ranged units sight lines.
Doesn't work to well on desert maps.
Very rarely the AI leaves the fort.
*plays greenskin* "Why fight a battle? WHY FOR THE TEEF YOU GIT!"
how come you didnt put one of the thunderers on the wall piece you were shooting through? coulda climbed it from outside and set up there, no way for them to get to you as the wall was broken. wouldve helped thin them out before combat too
Did Todd Howard visit CA and design their walls for this settlement?
Or maybe Ca took advise from Matt ward at Games Workshop on it,as the rule books he wrote weren't received well.
People who say there's a "wrong" way of playing anything annoy me I love this game but I fully admit I don't play well because I enjoy watching the spectacle of a battle more than I enjoy the results. I'm well aware there's better ways of playing but I play the way I enjoy. It's why I can call Legend an amazing player and then proceed to ignore all of his advice XD
That L-shaped settlement is such a bad design. They could have at least put a tower there.
he's not just a cheese master, he's legenDAIRY
favorite way to besiege with dwarves, flame cannons and regular cannons to blow up towers/walls once i have all damaging towers destroyed, use cannons on wall units, try to focus any and all range units/ heroes, after those are down, move in irondrakes/ trollhammers. if you move them onto the rubble of the wall you can use their ranged attack without the enemy attacking you, have had 1 irondrake with 800+ kills vs skaven.
if you put your units in a checkerboard formation alternating ranged and melee units you can easily counter the menace belows and also leave enough spacing that a warp bomb can only damage one unit. As somebody who gives attention to small details I'm surprised you have missed this so far, Legend.
Basically it could be like: ''So we just withdraw''. And this is it for this video today. Have a nice day everyone :D
I went against that settlement with mortars and they literally just walk into the shelling in that square. Its hilarious. Its great with the foot of Gork too.
Hey LegendofTotalWar. If you had the power, how would you change siege battles to make it better?
Wow the illusion wall... jeez. NOW 100% the worst settlement. I wonder if the thunderers would've been able to fire at will through it...
in Warhammer III we need to have a dwarf faction with 'More Powder!' .
I did a chaos campaign with my friend and I think something bugged out because I literally got this settlement 40+ times in a row while fighting rats in Lustria. Needless to say, I recruited a lot of hellcannons
12:59 I feel personally attacked :)
This is a great way to do sieges skaven can be even more cheese as they can use the motors with a lightning cannon to destroy the towers. The motors then bomb them from outside.
6:50 Never use melee infantry to defend your artillery against menace below, because of this. Put your gunners all around the artillery, facing them. Gunners will rout them before they can do any serious damage to artillery, and the warp bomb won't do much. Helps to put a hero with the artillery too, if possible.
I feel like the artillery would get a fair chunk of damage first, and if they warpbomp, that high priority artillery is getting melted
Could be wrong though, not that experienced with Dawi
@@InahaFrost I basically only play dwarves (tried other races, havent found any others that I enjoy as much. Always very hard battle difficulty. If you put a hero or two on the artillery, and set up your thunderers correctly, the artillery will take almost no damage.
@@InahaFrost also, the low-entity count of artillery (and the fact that they dont cluster up as much) means warp bomb does much, much less to them than it does to a melee infantry unit
13:44 I play bretonnia more often and find that the best way of sieging is to have a stack of knights besiege the castle, get attacked when they sally forth and cycle charge them into oblivion. it is very micro heavy but if you do it well you can wipe the garrison and any reliving armies out and have enough left over to auto-resolve at the start of the next turn.
What would you advise
with that stack, that might be the right option. Hippogryph knights might have an easier time of it, though, they can do the standard monster swarm attack inside the city.
lol I actually sat here and watched all of this. Good shit tho i love some good dwarf action.
"But its CHEESE" well theyre rats so cheese would be okay^^
I understand from other videos that the first half of shots of your missile units counts for far less than the second half. Would it be good cheese to switch out artillery that is half empty?
When you have lots of handgunners like this, instead of archers:
Breach the walls, shoot them through the gaps. The AI rarely goes outside their walls, even when shot in the face at close range.
20:00 A big juicy fire vortex right there.
Quick question, are flamethrowers (flame canons) not better for sieges than organ guns because of their arched shots?
3:15 in you should have said : "you could have taken this settlement with cheese"
If people don't want to cheese siege battles like this, then they can do sieges in the "honorable" way, waiting 10+ turns until the enemy surrenders
"I can almost hear in the background, in the back of my head..."
"But Legend, not everybody cheese the sieges like you do..."
"Then fucking LOSE!"
Anti-cheese viewers have colonized his skull after many tryes
Killing heroes with overcast final transmutation is pretty useful anywhere. It’s Gelt’s best spell imo
I can smell evil dwarven Tyromancy. :D
LOLZ, "then ducking lose ok?!"
My siege method is to have two armies. One full of cheap, expendable units like peasants or skavenslaves and the other to have elite infantry and artillery. Highly inefficient, long winded, low frame rate but it gets the job done! You're not playing skaven right if every battle isn't a phyrric victory.
It could be a good idea to make some small guides on leveling lords for each faction... I always have problems when playing by making stupid decisions I lament later.
The only criticism to allowing the sieges to get to a draw is that the game tends to disband one or two of your artillery units. Essentially, your army after not winning had to "fall back" to their original point leaving artillery pieces behind. It was a trick I'd use with besieging down dwarf settlements as Balthasar Gelt. I'd draw with no losses spending 60 minutes just shelling the enemy dwarves but still see my artillery pieces be disbanded. Of course, in this guy's situation, if you can just get the units replaced quickly enough, it's worth it compared to massive losses.
The thing that people don't understand is that, not everyone can be a Maître Fromager.
The best SYDB ever. I have never seen a disaster solved in 2 minutes.
you can also win against the computer if you just turn it off because "SiCk GeNiUs". just because is looks like confidence doesn't mean it actually is, put a bowl of water into a freezer and you've got an ice cream! logic astounding, followers unique. -_-
I learnt more from this video than I did from playing the game for 3 years,
Organ gun can shoot thru wall is terrifying
best way of doing sieges. 5 Skeleton stacks with vampire lords for money efficient killling of every known race
This is ofc how everyone with a brain sieges. I know, it feels cheesy but hey, on legendary what can you do. All is fair in war and love.
I love cheese as Skaven in sieges, rush to the wall with my plague priest and rack up 700+ kills just spamming away the ejaculating rat vortex
The lactose intolerant comment got me lol
Legend: Thunderers are better than Quarrelers (145 vs 160 range respectively).
Also Legend: regular HE archers are better then lothern sea guard, because they have +15 range, and this is f*cking huge difference.
Me: WTF? :D
This settlement is only bad for AI defender. If you defend it it's ok. The tower can shoot the line of ladderers. And while they are on the walls you can flank-shoot them with your artilery.
I can't believe I missed this absolute gem! I didn't know you could shoot thru the wall. It's been over 3 years so they probably patched this and I've moved on to total war warhammer 3 where I'm assuming they got rid of this crappy (but fun to siege) map.
Could've used the ironbreakers to throw satchels onto the walls. Would be much faster than using thunderers to shoot things on the walls.
Name a siege in history that wasn't about positioning your artillery in a favourable position
The siege of Constantinople against the Byzantine empire.
Shut was won because someone left a door open
That literally. People who want fast and bloody siege should just get all meele units and rush to their doom. If you like that - sure have fun. But real sieges were always about giving enemy hell before doing wall assault part. The more, the better. It's basic logic at this point. With magic it's only more fun for me. I don't stack before holes in walls and shoot tho, not my cup of tea. But I will use my artillery.
I see timmy has made his way into your videos aswell
Don't tell majorkill xd
He must have been looking for a new Guinea Pig after Major's last Grim-Dark video.
The short version of this video:
"HAHAHA, HUEHUEHUE, HEHEHE, BUAHAHAHAH."
Treat Skaven like Vampirates. Their entire roster has shitty leadership, so killing their lords and heroes is basically a route. If the AI is stupid enough to put lords/heroes on walls, dwarfs can reliably snipe them with ballistae or cannons of rank 4 or higher. Just remember to tell them to stop firing during the lord/hero "standing back up" animation to save ammo. Ungrim Ironfist, Belegar Ironhammer, or a decently leveled Thane can be used to Lord snipe as well. Once you knockdown the towers, and kill the warlock engineers (why the fuck is warp lightning, a rough equivalent to Pit of Shades their starter spell?) you can advance you forces in earnest.
Regarding MfB (it's fucking ridiculous how that summon ability is both map-wide and laser precise) just overlay your anvil infantry with your artillery crews (not the guns, the crews), and they'll tank most of the damage for them
Look if you're not cheesing seiges then you're sending a 20 skeleton/clanrat/pesant mob stack at it there's no in-between
Hi, i can put my two necromancers both on a cart with unholy lodestone they will stack? or only just one works and is better chose another mount?
This type of settlement is even dumber. The thing is that the center of the settlement is at the same height as the walls, so you could use dwarf cannons (or other artillery with a similar ballistics) to just obliterate everything that is there, due to the fact that the projectiles would fly over the walls. Especially if your artillery has a longer range than enemy ones. You can also make a hole in the wall and lure enemy squads one by one directly at the the missile infantry.