What Are The Best DPS in Cataclysm? - The Most Surprising Tier List I've Ever Made...
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- Опубликовано: 23 авг 2024
- Today we go on an investigation to find out one simple question: What dps are actually good in Cataclysm?
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Yo! WARNING! LONG COMMENT: As a long time Cataclysm raider i have played almost every class/spec in Firelands and Dragonsoul + PvP (Excluding priest and hunter, never played them lol) All i say here is my experience and my opinion... feel free to disagree
About Warrior - MOST OP/Easy to learn melee class on cataclysm, yea... u have stance dance but u can do it all with easy macros and u just smash buttons although its very weapon depended, so as soon as you get your Sulfuras in FL you start toping DPS charts. U always go Arms ... Fury is OK as soon as Firelands starts and you get yourself 2x one-handed axe, With 2x Two-hand you can play only at the end of Dragonsoul. Most Fun tank spec for me, unfortunatelly can be good only in Dragon Soul Raid. For PVP its hard to master because you need to switch weapon/shield for some spells but its definately fun and they roll hard in BGs
About Mages - I played mage over 3 years as my Main class in every possible encounter with/without DTR (Legendary staff) - They are the TOP of the TOP in huuge AOE encounters (Together with Demo lock) becaus of unlimited DOT spreading, but can do extremly good in single target as you mentioned with better gear.. But if you can snapshot good combustion you can be top in DPS even with lowest item level in group. They are essential for some Fireland fights like Alysrazor. Frost Mage is NO-GO for PVE but TOP in PVP. Arcane is kind of a meme spec although in later content in Dragon Soul they perform extremly good (in fight where you can just stand and cast without moving) and extremly fun in BGs especialy with DTR (Legendary staff) you can LITERALLY ONE-POP ppl with one cast of Arcane Blast and bit of luck of duplicating from legendary staff.
About Rogues - Combat rogue is one of the easiest melee class to learn and performing very well, especially in multitarget encounters where you can cleave enemies with Blade Flurry (Warmaster Blackhor a.k.a. Battle ship is rogue TOP dps) and perform decently in single target. Assasination Rogues are getting better in later contet - Dragon soul But are extremly good in AOE situations thanks to their poisons spread with Fan of knives. Subtlety Rogues are PVP master BUT! They are extremly good in single target fights BUT! They are also the hardest melee in the game. Me personaly played Subtlety rogue only in Firelands and only in one encounter (Majordomo, thanks to lowered CD on Cloak of Shadow subtlety can keep the BONUS dmg buff UP all time all by itself) But ive seen some subtlety rogues in other encounters too but as I said, extremly hard to manage slice and dice / dots and so on... And yes! U have your Legendary Daggers in last phase so the Combat rogue will be extreeeeemly insane op goood with them in PvE
About Druids - Feral is together with Blood DK best tank in Cata so you will see 90% of Ferals playing tanks, as Feral DPS you are ok but thats all... mid tier. Balance druids are beasts in multitarget encounters and perform relatively ok in single target. If you like big owls and a lot of numbers flying all over your screen and for some reason u dont like mage, balance is the way to go. However in PVP Feral is top dog, feral druid can 1v1 any melee class in game with not much problems, thanks to OP bleed dmg and instant snares / cyclones and mobility. They struggle a bit vs ranged classes. But for BGs u want to play balance druid, i would say that the best of the best BG class/spec is balance druid. You just DOT everyone, pop starfall and watch everyone around you melt with huge numbers flying here and there.
About Shamans - Elemental is fun, rly fun in multitarget if you like pressing one button (Chain lighting) And ele is getting better and better with more Mastery gear and ofc as any casting class with Legendary staff. In boss fight you need to time your Fire elemental good because u can use it only once in encounter. Thanks to elemental mastery spell (and Mastery in general) they are satysfying to play when your mastery is doing its job and duplicating your spells (with legendary staff even more!) the lava bursts go PEW PEW PEW. Enhancement shaman is extremly underated in my opinion - it can top the dps meters in single target situations with the BIG crits of lava lash (over 150k in Firelands!) but they do not provide much usefull buffs for the group so they are not very welcome in raiding enviroment. In PVP Elemental for battleground extremly fun with chainlighting but rly squishy and hard to kite. And enchancement are depending on their burst with wolves, otherwise they can be easily kited.
About Warlocks - Oh boi oh boi, so you like BIG numbers? Demonology Warlock is together with Fire mage top dog in big AOE fights and you will be playing Demo in most encounters. Metamorphosis together with Mastery proc trinkets / gear and doomguard gonna blow up the opening of every fight and will fall down for the rest of the fight, but with such extrem burst they still be toping DPS meters. Destruction warlock is big NO for PVE and for PvP its not bad but only for battlegrounds. Affliction warlock is really good fights where you have 2-3 targets for a long period of time (Like Lord Rhyolith) but they are a bit hard to master (i was struggling to play affliction correctly so i was mainly playing Demo) Together with mage they are 2 best option for Alysrazor fight for Flying cause of extremly good scaling with Buff you have while flying through rings. Also Affliction is extremly good in PVP both battleground and arenas/duels.
Death Knights - Top DOG tank in cataclysm is Blood DK, good self healing and dmg mitigation tools. Frost is realy easy to pick up and master especialy if you using the sort of "CLC addons" which helps you with rotation, similiar wheelchair riders use... sorry i meant retry paladins... As a frost u always want to use 2x one handers and you can expect toping dps in 1st phase (Bwd+Bot) Frost is also really good in PVP cause of control / slow they have. However Unholy DK will always be better then frost but its a bit harder to master and you need to time your cooldowns (gargoyle) good with snapshots. If you master your Unholy DK you can easily compete for 1st place of DPS meters with Arms warriors. In PvP Unholy have extremly deadly burst and very good sustain dmg.
Paladins - OK tank but feral/dk better. Retrybution paladin is really strong in later expansion, i mean you can do really good numbers in 1st phase too.. but they have one of the strongest bursts of all melee classes in Dragon Soul. They provide raid with a lot of usefull buffs and cooldowns and you alway find at least 1 paladin in 10man raid group and multiple of them in 25man. Its a must have spec in raid enviroment. I played retry paladin least of all melee classes so thats all i can say about it sorry.. In PvP they are extremly good (self healing / shielding / buble / burst / range attack) they can do everything and they are extremly good healers in later expansion FL+DS.
Hunters - Never played them! But from what ive seen its like this - beast mastery was MEH in pve cause of bad scripting pets on private servers so cant say how it will be on classic. The way to go was Marksmanship and Survival. Hunter is necesary in every raid group cause a lot of mechanic depends on hunters (Kiting around trap and so on) In Aoe situations they pop really nice numbers and are ok in single target. In PvP They are extremly annyoing to play againts as a melee class cause of their traps / slows / jumps ... I dont like Huntards... But if you are hunter enjoyer, you will like cataclysm version of Hunter.
Priests - Never played them! But from what ive seen its like this - Healers... always healing... if you play Shadow in 1st or 2nd phase (Bwd+BoT+ToT4W / Firelands) you are trolling. Shadow priest is extremly gear dependend and performing really good in DPS only in Dragon Soul. In PVP healers... always healing... shadow is ok but from what ive seen anyone can eat u alive cause u dont have much to protect urself.
If you read all of this then you must be really dedicated to cataclysm or just insane :D Thanks a lot for reading and as i said - feel free to ask anything or argue with me :D Have a nice day!
Edit: Playing on EU server Golemagg - Horde (nick Sasonny) Feel free to /w me in-game
thank you for sharing your opinion. But few things were different back in the day of og cata and we will have on classic. classic will have final ptch class balancing, so shadow priests will pop up in pve from the start. even without it, just watch original world first videos, ppl were playing with demo locks, sps etc. also by stance dancing of arms warr do you mean just jumping into battle one for x2 overpower?
@@Osanve yea you just open fight with charge + rend in battle stance with overpower and then u want to switch and stay in berserker, when you have proc of overpower you idealy want to track it with weak aura or so and macro Overpower with battle stance, wait until the proc (taste for blood) is almost over and in last second switch to battle stance. In this case u can use overpower twice. But this is really minmaxing, you will pump really good number even without tracking the proc. Just use overpower whenever its possible (ofc after mortal strike)
Stop trolling about Shadow, we are objectively at our strongest in t11, slighty worse in t12, then we were getting outscaled hard by Mages, Locks, Legendary Rogues and Warrs in t13
Shadow barely got any changes throughout Cata, so playing with 4.3 talents will not change this, and even if those changes make other classes stronger in t11 and t12 then they were historically, Shadow is stil a spec that starts strong and falls off because of lack of scaling.
SPs were dogshit (as in, worse spec in the entire game) for the first 3-4 weeks of Cata, then we got buffed to high heavens. We were super OP for 3 days, before we were brought down again to the state we would stay in for the rest of the expansion. The only changes that happened after this, was that Dark Intent (the Warlock single target buff that SPs were the best target for), was changed from 3% Haste and 9% DoT dmg, to 3% Haste and 3% DoT dmg, aswell as a shuffle of our dmg profile before going into Firelands, were our DoTs were nerfed, but MB, MF and SW:D were buffed to compensate.
Don't get me wrong, Shadow is still the by far best class in the game for multidotting fights like the Tauren on the Gunship fight in 4.3, but Shadow Priests can not compete with the best ST classes in Dragon Soul considering equal gear and skill. The top Shadow logs for Ultraxion before the MoP prepatch were like 55k, while the top classes were at 60k+. Compare that to t11, were we were the by far best caster in the game for ST, only getting beaten by prenerf MM Hunters and Arms Warrs, while we could do the same dmg as two other players on multidotting fights.
@@Osanve thankyou for the clarification on sp bc i am really considering switching my main. I already have a SP and love the rotation and fun to play. I still have my fire mage and boomie
so rm is better than sp/r here? What about arms / healer? In TBC best comp was war/rdrood and in wotlk war/hpal but here what u go with?
I remember being so surprised how many times I was top dps on my Unholy DK with way worse gear than many of my guild mates, it was definitely S tier dps.
this is patch 4.3 data for Tier 11, this is not what happened in original Cata so things won't be the same way you remember besides the last tier
It was that way for me as Frost too.
@@vincentprieur12 Yeah... in the first tier 2h Frost was bis until the troll invasion. I also remember unholy being bad when you needed any burst when changing targets in Dragon soul.
Yeah, it's a flavor of the month class.
Also the damage you are doing in your specific raid will always be somewhat different than when comparing to percentiles globally. For example during wotlk classic UH DK were the kings of the dps meter till ICC, but in my guild it was a hunter and a spriest that were the pump gods topping all meters. So there's also that.
Combustion in cata when done correctly is the best DPS in the entire expansion.
Leveled a sub rogue in wrath purely because I want to use it in cata. By far the most fun dps spec to play.
Its insanely fun man holy shit, I was a teenager when I played sub in pve and not only was I top dps but its literally like coke. thoses shadow dances man, so fucking good
Cata may have been the start of "bring the player not the class", but don't be fooled. This version of the game still has a few spec specific buffs that will make demo locks and frost DKs very good picks for a well formed raid group.
Fire mage is a tricky class in early cata. Yes they are amazing if played and geared well, but the skill cieling is very high, hiting good combustions are hard to get consistent. And also they need lots of gear, the have mana issues below ilvl360 if the rng is not in your favour. In hc T11 gear and especially in Firelands gear they start to really really shine and take over the meters. So if u roll fire in early cata, just be prepeared that up until around 360ish ilvl (which is normal T11 gear) simetimes you are gonna have a hard time. Also theres a Legendary that is perfect with fire so if you are one of the lucky ones, you are gonna have a blast with it.
This is the main reason you are gonna see arms toping the meters more ofthen then fire becuase they are just easier to play if you know what you are doing and not rng reliant. Fire is amazing but it needs so many factors to be the no1 that make it a bit less appealing to me... On the other hand, fire is the most fun spec in cata at least in my opinion.
is arcane easier than fire? for a dumb dumb
@@Saturnaano because you have to manage mana as arcane and time everything well
@@SaturnaaDon't listen to the other dude, arcane has very straightforward gameplay, and managing your mana isn't hard at all. The "difficult" part is knowing when to use your burst. Meaning you just need to keep track of your cooldowns (especially if you have proc trinkets) and know the fights, i.e. if the boss has a phase where it takes extra damage, and when you pop bloodlust.
Arcane gameplay has 2 phases, burst and conserve. The conserve rotation is simple, you use arcane blast to spend a bit of mana, and drop AB stacks with arcane missiles (or arcane barrage if you're unlucky with procs) to keep your mana as close to 100% as possible while not capping. At low gear levels you will basically use missiles ASAP, with good gear you can often keep stacking arcane blast a bit because your mana regen is so high.
And when it's time to blast, you pop your cooldowns, spam that arcane blast button as hard as you can, and once you're missing ~12k mana, you use your mana gem (it gives you a dps boost similar to T7 set bonus). When your CDs are over and/or you drop to 20-30% mana, you use evocation and go back to the conserve rotation. And that's about it. You can use the burst phase whenever your arcane power and trinkets are ready, and evocation will be up ~20 seconds after you start pumping.
Arcane AoE is very interesting though, you're gonna use arcane explosion again. There's a talent that reduces your GCD, mana costs, and threat from AE which means you can spam it super fast and for cheap. The interesting part is that it gets buffed by arcane blast stacks, but doesn't consume the stacks. So when there's big AoE coming up you want to pre-stack your arcane blast to 4, then use 3-5 AE depending on how much haste you have, and then cast 1 AB inbetween to keep up your 4 stacks of AB. But if you can't do all that, it's back to good old flamestrike + blizzard.
Arcane is horrible in Cata, from someone who mained a mage in original Cataclysm definitely go fire the damage is ridiculous
You seem to be mistaken about Chimareon.
It is NOT like patchwerk.
The boss randomly puts a 75% chance to miss debuff that lasts a few seconds.
This means DOT classes are less punished by this mechanic compared to other classes.
When this comment gets buried deep in a year, there's going to be quite a few disappointed shadow priests expecting to be top DPS. 😂 They're strong, but not as strong as the other DPS.
@@dakolta7830 hahaha truee. Arms warriors are giga strong, experienced demo locks too.
@@Valandril I think Arms warriors deserve a little love after the absolute state of them in WoTLK. Warrior will probably be my main, and the only class that's fun to lvl due to Victory Rush now healing you like a blood crazed angel of death.
I can't wait to xmog my Corrupted Ashbringer on my paladin when Cata Classic comes out
Cata! Can't wait.
Hell yeah, cata is goat for me
Soon
@@nikolamarkovic1915its between hardcore and too casual. thats why i love cata
@@ultrAslan50not even closs being between those two.
Oh this is the video you meant when I suggested you make a tier list.
I kept looking at your most recent and couldn’t find it.
Yes lad
I remember playing ret paladin and really enjoyed popping cooldowns for some huge nuke damage but overtime in all fights frost deathknights , arms warriors , mages and hunters would overtake me.
On dragon soul last raid, ret pala has 2 or 3 fights where even those classes cannot touch you. Any fight that has a phase where boss takes increased % dmg.
Hey Metagoblin, lovely Video, I also very much liked your 15-70 dungeon leveling guides, what do you think would be the best classes/Specs for leveling in cataclysm 15-80/85?
I remember doing a dummy tryout for a guild as arms warrior in mostly blues. Absolutely busted .
Absolutely loved survival hunter in cata.
same! probably my favorite version of hunter ever
My favorite version of any class/spec combo in the history of the game. Only time I ever got a character full BiS was my SV Hunter in Dragon soul. It was so damn fun to log on and smash random heroics, or do random BGs all day with people.
Hands down my fav class and spec of all wow
It was so much fun playing bgs as a surv hunter during cata. I can remember camouflaging with my pet spider, frost/freeze trapping unsuspecting passersby, and just blasting them into the shadow realm lol I haven't played wow in years but I'm honestly considering getting back into it for classic cata
Mop/cata surv hunter was PEAK hunter!! Favorite forever
This doesn’t factor in the ppl who can actually play demo lock. Min-max demo is S tier and also afflic is worse than demo and destro throughout cata
In 4.3 Sub Rogue got buffed up for the daggers. Same with Assassination. The axes that are non-legendary bis were so close to the daggers that Blizz had to buff the other two specs. This is also why Sub Rogue was broken af in PvP during season 11.
Arms warr is kinda bis entire expansion. The better gear the stronger arms gets, bladestorm for aoe, and insane singletarget. Was good fun!
Feels good. I can't wait to stop being made fun of for playing Arms lol
@@dudeshamus1451 Not to mention Fury warriors crying because they need two 2h weapons and the guilds will only give them one more until everyone else has gotten theirs.
How good was the execute phase for arms?
@@fdajax5107 Very good
what was the play style ? any weird slam timing or something
I remember tearing up bg's on my shadow priest. Instant cast Mind Blast and Mind Spikes! Lvl 79 cata green gear is OP
i think a lot of people forgot about this. back when cata first release i bought all my alts 79 green cata gear and would be unstoppable one shotting people
Demo warlock on B tier is such a meme.
Guys, i remembered hunter markmanship op in cataclysm and not survival, is this possible markmanship was better early and then survival take over in last patch ?
Problem is that on Twinstar (the server you used), dmg was nerfed by 22-35% so data are very unacurate
is twinstar cata realm pve or pvp?
@@GoIdLeopard Those numbers are from P1 Cata in time when they launched Cata, so there was only 1 realm in that time around 2015-6
So what would be an accurate list?
@@Lildonwavey Hard to say, Twinstar launched P1 cata with 4.3.4 patch... and they reduced dmg for all classes to prolong content... since P1 was there for 1,5 year
If its a matter of percent on the damage, its just the numbers thats off... The placement on the list should be the same
I played sub rogue back in the day. It is very slept on. It's one of the hardest specs to play in Cata so people tend to lean on the other more easy specs that do similar numbers that have better AOE since Sub is all single target. If you want to play the highest skill cap spec in Cata then sub rogue is definitely the spec.
Combat you just keep SnD up, eviscerate, and use CDs when they pop.
Assassination you mutilate above 35% HP and backstab below 35%. Keep SnD up with Envenom and maintain rupture, CDs are just use on CD.
Now sub is way more complex. Your combo builders require you to be behind the target. You have to maintain hemorrhage, SnD, rupture with eviscerates, and recuperate. Now you have 5 CDs which 3 of them (Vanish, Shadow dance, and preparation) all need to be used to keep up Find Weakness. Premeditation and shadow step both have low 20ish second cooldowns. To do great DPS you have to do everything in the correct order.
If your talking about cata, with all do respect your either outa ur mind or a noob. Sub rouge only took massive skill when u played 3s, that’s it. As far as duels and 2s go it was jsut as brain dead as a mastery stacked blood dk or arcane mage. Rouge in any spec or scenario besides when doing 3s really didn’t take skill at all. The specs that took skill were hpally, unholy dk, arms warrior (arms warrior took most skill), fire mage, balance Druid, affliction lock, disc priest, survival hunter, eley shaman. Everything else was either spam rotations , or button mashing with very little care for cd rotation.
@@michaeldariopellittieri3050 I don't care about cata PvP, I was talking about PvE rotations.
@@michaeldariopellittieri3050It depends on the comp u play tho. As disc+rogue is not as braindead as 2x dps. You dont have enough dmg to kill in first go. You need to either do mana burn setups or fear>sap setups or redirect setups. Games will be longer
@@jaimonji5503 well yes u are correct but it wasnt a high tier comp and most people didnt play it. Most children were doing thug combos. but ya sub rouge with a healer was a high skill requirement and was almost like a bragging rights comp to show people they were inferior xD... if u were getting over 2k with sub disc u knew u were a G
@@michaeldariopellittieri3050 got 2050 as disc rog but in wrath of the lich king. Idk if disc rog is better in that expansion
That GDKP post is toxic as hell. I can’t believe people actually waste their money on buying gold. Lol
they always have, has nothing to do with gdkp. consumes/boe's etc its all reasons why people buy gold
editing in goliath is diabolical
bro, ur making me insanely hyped for a possible cata classic.
With the release being right around the corner, how hyped are u?
@@Hamitwow Man im so pumped to play arms
I was a survival hunter Arms war and Sub rogue main in cata and can attest, they do decently high numbers if played and specced correctly. Sub rogue is a fickle thing that many won't understand or even be able to figure out in some cases due to it's nuanced gameplay and rotation that require some particulars, I plan on going back to those 3 classes due to I enjoyed their playstyle very much back then and have been dying to have it again.
Bad news for fury, even though they scale well into DS, arms will still have them beat due to gurthalak being so damn op
Fury was pretty mediocre in DS, something like they are in Ulduar now. Fury in Cata will be entirely dead on 4.3 talents, if they reverted the nerf it'd be ok.
Makes me wonder if they'll just get rid of the feral change for FFF always proccing Clearcasting since FFF is changed a bit in Cata. If they keep it, it will be a wildly better class than before. Not fire mage good, but much better.
Really hope they keep the change in
Hey meta, great video. Can we expect something similar for healers?
disc priest, hpala and rdruid are all excellent and interchangeable. holy priest is awful and rshaman is meh
Can't help but wonder, what changed with the Fury talents over the expansion? In first raid tier in Cata I pumped hard as fury, and even rerolled main to Frost since I could do damage without being threat capped. I did all the heroic 10-man 1st tier, so it's not like my guild were complete scrubs letting me be top dps as fury (if I could spare the threat).
Look at how close those bar graphs are. It means anybody who is on their game can be top. The advantage is pretty small.
@@luphoxcastl - That's fair. I recently looked it up - apparently fury was so good 1st tier that Ghostcrawler even said "by bringing melee dps it shouldn't be only fury" or something like that, and Titan's grip got a hefty nerf.
Fury was OP in the beginning of Cata. but 2 months into it they nerfed Fury hard. I was able to solo 5 players in PvP battlegrounds as Fury in the beginning of Cata. I had to admit it was TOO good at first. I would stand on our flag and be able to defend it alone and kill anyone. Because of this, Blizz nerfed Fury hard overall instead of just tweaking us in PvP.
@@PheonixT-ki8rx I have this ancient screenshot of progressing on Nefarian 10 (normal I think) where I as fury did nothing but auto for 3-4 seconds, and I shoot up to 49k dps just before heroism as popped, causing a wipe due to threat. The next highest dps was peaking 29k. Even if I was very good, that's too much. So I see why they nerfed fury in pve as well. Frost DK was much more consistent anyway without having to worry that a few crits early on after 3-4s auto would mean I wipe the raid. A brag for sure, but playing russian roulette with raid wipe or not doing competitive damage wasn't a fun experience so I guess something had to be done.
Fury suck on cata, arms all the way. No one beat arms. Only wl beat arms on single target boss
I have played Cata on private server and all content was nerfed with 25-30% dmg reduction to raid bosses in hope to balance the 4.3 talents to the earlier patches.
Though pets as hunter or unholy dk pet, did not get affected by this, so they were really strong, at least of unholy death knight.
This is not true unless you're talking about meme servers. The 30% reduction server I'm guessing is twinstar where the damage reduction was absolutely applied to pets properly.
This list is completely wrong though, but that's to be expected. Judging logs with end-game gear and removed dampening (meaning best players had no reason to do these fights anymore) will just provide faulty data.
True top dps for 4.3.4 patch will be something like Arms - Unhdk - Assa - Surv - Affli/Demo. Some specs will overtake others depending on gear level and fight type, but that list mostly holds true for ST dps in the first 2 tiers.
@@literallywho-fj9qj hey mate, you seem to know a lot about cata. i have a question: how is feral? is it decent enough to bring it to raids (i guess cuz leader of the pack)?
@@sinnis4993 Bear is the best off-tank of the expansion, cat does decent damage but falls short when compared with other mdps specs (arms, unholy, rogues, would even risk saying enh shamans).
I'd say the biggest argument against it in 10m is the fact that you'd be competing for gear with your OT, which can be detrimental for your group. In 25m I can definitely see them having a spot if you know how to execute the spec properly.
@@literallywho-fj9qj thanks for the answer. really want to play something new if cata classic will be released. mained sv hunter and fdk back then.
@@sinnis4993 Feral was p decent but one of the harder interations of it.
im really hoping enhance turns out better than these tier lists are showing. to have such a difficult class be so low performing would be both typical of blizzard but also disappointing. its such a robust and fun class man but rn all the seratonin comes from the first 30 seconds of the fight when i'm in 5th place doing everything perfectly lmao
I agree 💯 enhancement is such a badass spec to play it shouldn't be a bottom feeder. Put BM or Mages or boomkins or ret at the bottom. Classes I don't like lol 😉😏
I wonder the viability of feral dps in Cata. Anyone know if a guild brings one?
I heard they were pretty good on Nefarian 25H back in the day for a guild called Paragon(if you know, you know XD )
I miss MOP, I genuinely had so much fun pvping in MoP
Does Marksman just not exist on the logs?
Bm and mm were D tier I'm afraid.
MM got some run in Firelands IIRC.
@@sickofitall8486 MM was historically the best Hunter spec and one of the best ST specs in t11 and t12, but got multiple nerfs over that time, while SV got buffed at the release of Dragon Soul.
I guess I'd be interested to see how different it'll be even for ferals since the omen change. I was hoping to just roll feral into cata as I play it now in wotlk and have the most fun. I don't think i'll level a new class just to be FOMO but if feral is really that bad I might.
Feral can be middle of the pack, but keep in mind how much smaller the differences are in this expansion. Even if you wanted to play Enhance, the lowest dmg melee spec of the expansion, it's still not a bad choice and it brings a ton of things to the raid. Even if you want to play Shadow, the lowest of the non PvP DPS specs, it still isn't that bad, it's just that other things will scale better.
This was the first expansion where most rotations got a touch of complexity, but it was still before Blizzard wanted to lower the skill gap. Because of this your SKILL in Cata and MoP will matter much, much more than the spec you pick. These are two expansions you quite literally can almost play anything in PvE and PvP and it will be viable with a couple of exceptions.
They need to keep the FFF giving guaranteed OOC procs in the game for Cata
@@sgtbilko2950no they shouldn’t it’s the worst implementation in the game . Yes it buffed our damage by so much but it’s a braindead rotation that doesn’t make sense we need tireless energy talent , apex predator procs. Carnivores instincts . Omen of f clarity should buff your shred by 15% if you choose to use it etc
Also most importantly “BLOOD TALONS” which means if you use 3 different combo generating abilities you got blood talons charges that buff your finisher move by 25% . So you wanna be generating blood talons and then bite or rip
Am in the same exact situation , but i have alot of alts but am not sure what to main still … i just love to do big d dps on the meters but still confused as hell
Classic Cata is gonna have a lot of changes and everything will be pretty diff than this. Even wrath dps was way diff than pserver dps
@Kommentierknopf OG Cata, pserver cata and classic Cata are three different games. Also I didn't say anything about any specific class why are you mad
What do you mean WotLK Dps was different? It was exactly as predicted, with the exception of UH DKs being stronger and Ferals being weaker, and every single WotLK tier list came with the exclaimer that those two specific specs might change a lot depending on how Blizzard did the scripting for Gargoyle and Omen of Clarity...
@@Melodeath00 Blizz changed lots of stuff. UH dk's weren't doing 10k+dps in naxx in OG wrath. Rogues mutilate is bugged and hitting twice in classic doing more dmg. Demo locks got their SP buff changed. Rets got changed. Feral got changed multiple times and several other things. Also players were bad at the game in OG wrath compared to today where everything is insanely optimized. Every single class found new ways to do more dps than OG wrath. Basing any kind of dps list off "What it was in the past" or pservers is insane. Also playing on the last patch changes a lot
@@sNNNNNable And yet, the tier lists based on WotLK PS data were extremely accurate, and got everything more or less correct except for the things that Blizzard explicitly changed.
Where will we be able to get updated information of data once it launches?
Fury will always prevail. Noriona - Demise(used to be anyways).
nice video as always, healers tier next?
Cata is so much more skill oriented that most people should be able to top the meters through pure fight knowledge and well timed cooldowns.
Class like sub rogue, fire mage, I believe even feral will rip apart meters in the right hands
When people get dragon soul set bonuses it all changes lol. Unholy, sub, and fire are too dogs for sure. Yes, sun outperforms assassination eventually.
Retri pala, ench shaman, arms and fury war
Sub rogues will become crazy op in Ds patch and some bosses in firelands, but people dont bother to play it cuz you need a brain
No detail discussion of most classes.. time waste.. in this short form
Really enjoying wotlk classic but I would love to hop on a cata server. How can I find one??
Search for Whitemane Cataclysm Its so good I swear
So I played Rogue as a main in Cata, I've been playing since vanilla btw. Anyway. Assassination was sick, really great spec, crazy AoE with FoK and Poisons doing insane damage and then on bosses below 35% swapping to Backstab was just a blast. Had so much fun. You mentioned Sub being a sleeper spec and yes it was, but the absolute best usage of a Sub rogue was that we (i did this too) could solo the twilight realm on Valiona and Theralion with the right gear which included som pvp items and timing pots and trinkets since it was all just a numbers game.
Sub did OK dmg outside of this too but it didn't beat Assassination.
Sub did completely out-scale Assas by DS though.
@@jaq3269 that could very well be true. I didn't raid DS sadly. Guild died in Firelands and I ended up PUGing Rag with a solid group of people. So I'll just say I don't know if sub did beat Assa in DS but that could very well be true. I ended my run in Firelands with combat spec, which was very viable then. So now that I think of it, Assa probably wasn't king for very long. You just made me unearth this nugget from memory. :D
Sub outscaling as well as feint allowing you to ignore most mechanics shot sub to the moon
You probably weren't playing sub correctly. It's one of the hardest specs in the game and if you mess up the rotation then the DPS won't be better then the other specs. When I was progressing on heroic rag I was playing sub. When I was in heroic DS I was playing sub with legendary daggers.
Assa was great till DS and then started falling a little bit behind combat and we used sub for deathwing fight becouse it had insane burst with lego daggers. Sub was imo hardest spec to play correctly in cataclysm. I did not liked it :D
Ah yes, arms warrior. The king of recount in cata.
fury warrior feels far off. i rememeber our fury warrior being very high up in the damage meters in the first raid tier in cata. he even couldnt attack for the first couple of seconds due to thze high burst. an we were clearing all the hc raids pre nerf so the argument about being just bad players wont fit.
apparently Fury WAS good in the first raid tier in Cata back then, but they got nerfed. Remember, we will be playing the classes how they were during the final patch of the expansion
False on fury being good in DS. Deepwounds got nerfed very hard in DS, and it meant about a 20% nerf for fury. The spec will be dead on arrival with no adjustments.
try fury on st fights where you pop lust on start. all you need to do is snapshot mastery prepull using special gear set and using your death wish. numbers will be insane. explanation: save your best mastery gear and your regular gearsets. on countdown to pull you wear your mastery set, you use dw, cuz it snapshots mastery, then prepot and equip your normal set. manipulations have to be done in 1-3s before your team engages the boss
@@Osanve this ended up being the only use case. Ultraxion comes to mind. Outside of the cheeses gimmick, the nerf killed the spec, as outside a burst wondow, the spec hovers around tank dps
@@stephenscott2533 I personnally played arms back to og cata, just more chill satisfying gameplay. you stancedance to battle for x2 owerpowers and go back to bers. but fury was doing some insane numbers on ultraxion.
@@Osanve I personally played both back then too. I agree. For short burst, mastery stacking fury was great. Ultraxion was really the only place for it though. Other than that, we were forced into arms.
@@stephenscott2533 Arms was S tier the entire expansion anyway, even after the nerfs it got midway through t11. The only reason ppl slept on it during t12 was because Fury outscaled it and was even more broken. And Arms still had the 3rd best scaling in the game after Fury and Fire...
i remember playing subtlety rogue with legendary daggers and stomping people in every duel... except for blood dk's ofcourse, they just don't die......
Time to main that rank 14 warrior again, lets go.
i want to know of shadow priest is really a pumper in cata !!! any ideas please
Where the fuck is Marksmanship!?
It is the pvp spec for hunters, absolute dogshit in pve
I played Arms in Cata and it was awesome. Shadow priests are mad strong too.
Arms warrior was so much fun in cata! So was priest all around.
@@JoshLineberry Why was it fun? Did it change from WoTLK?
@@icebox1954 Every spec is more complex & has more stuff to do & manage in Cata than in wtlok
If they do drop cata classic are we going to have to start fresh and relevel characters?
no u can use old characters
Playing Ret back in these Days you have to Battle with Tanks in the DPS Meters in the First Raid Tier.
Don‘t think this was A Spec
There's videos back in the day putting Ret top 5 in various tiers
i have to agree, i dont even remember seeing ret's as a ret main now
@@SEASON4BIS maybe the first raid tier but once the legendary staff gets introduced in firelands and the daggers from ds, anyone who uses those becomes so powerful. i remeber casters holding onto that staff in DS
That would have been with 4.0.3 talents. What people think or say about original cataclysm literally holds no value because they will release cata classic with 4.3 class changes from launch.
@@SEASON4BIS i have a Video with me from Ultraxion 25 H i know there where better times than in the frist Tier😜
why is there only 1 hunter specc in there?
Whats the name of this private server?
Can you make a best pvp class video for cats as well?
what is Non Pad fight please?
Where are the hunters on the list?
have they confrimed cata classic??
where is mm? or bm?
What private server is he playing on guys???
Is this 4.3.4?
How is the druid in cata? I been thinking to try one on a private server feral dps. Is it worth?
Missed arcane mage.
RIP my demo lock :(
taking full heroic gear is not the the comparison.. in my opinion since mostle will not be able to achieve that.
just play hunter if u wanna be top dps in cata, they didnt do correct balancing when they changed it for cata.
Im not gonna play cata but if i wanted to have fun and smoke everyone in the water hunter it is.
They are S tier both pve and pvp the damage is busted just to mention next expension they revamp the entire hutner class/nerf to fix this.
Mage is also a safe bet along with unholy dk, those 3 and you are fine the entire xpac.
i want to test playing hunter to see how it feels before it comes out for real xD
It warm my heart to see a lot of cataclysm enthusiasts ❤
can u give a link to a exel¿?¿?¿ for i see ¿?¿?
MM/BM Hunter?
Subtlety - The B is silent by the way.
dam enh shams are that bad? i was planning on playing one
You have subtlety way to low on this list, half the top world of logs were from sub rogues. With gear they did the most single target damage and literally covered half of the top dps slots on world of logs at the time. Also you're misrepresenting alot of these classes by looking at logs that were taken during 4.3 when the gear and scaling got significantly better. Fury was dominant throughout the first 2 patches and arms only became really strong when the gear got really high ilvl and they could get a high enough crit rating that made them scale well. Otherwise it was only a pvp talent. Warlocks where always high a tear if not s teir for a huge part of the whole expansion. If they didin't fix it, you used to be able to snapshot mastery during your metamorphosis, so you'd have a set of gear that literally only had as much mastery on it as humanly possibly hit metamorphosis before the pull and then switch back before the tank pulled giving you an INSANE amount of opening damage.
Why are enhancement shamans so low 🪫😭
Wrath of GDKP 💀
Healers vid next??
Shaman was the best in my heroic death wing raids back then and it was both enh and ele because all the aoe fights
Hey meta!
Do you think it would be a good idea if blizz introduces personal loot in cata? I’m not playing wotlk, just leveling characters on era and having a fun time just chilling with a mate so I don’t really have an opinion on gdkp (also don’t have enough gold to even join one 😂), but if cata goes live i’d love to jump in and play it. Keep up the great vids mate. Cata hype!!!
Rogue with legendary dagger properly 1.
I Quit this game like 10 years ago i played till pandas does anybody know if i keep the characters and item and levels and so?
Yes you keep everything
For retail not classic
Hype hype hype!
where is mm or bm hunt what about arcane mage you even talk about very bad dps fury war but not them :(((
for this verison of cata MM is the worst spec bm is viable but still kinda eh and surv is the best
I'll give you an a÷ because we'll blizz
Cant wait for smite priest
can NOT wait
Is dungeon finder back yet? 👀
its been back lil bro
@@insanity2929 my laptops SSD killed itself 🤣 so ive still not used it my bro😢
where is the arcane mage
Besides Frost Mage, BM Hunter (unless you need lust and/or 3% dmg buff), MM Hunter, or Fury you can pretty much play ANY SPEC and it's viable (including tanks and healers; that's how close the balance is on the 4.3.4 patch). Cata and MoP have the highest skill gap between good and bad players; your performance will always outshine which spec you picked. Almost every rotation in the game gets more complicated and the difficulty of raiding and pre nerf heroics is a NICE step up from Wrath.
In PvP, I think Ferals are the most busted thing that exists with an insane skill cap (instant cyclones>heal>restealth)
Rogues (sub) are very good but take a lot of skill (anything weak to Feral and Rogue will have a HARD time dealing with them)
Unholy is insane
Ret is damn good
Hunters are very good with a great ability to kite and high burst dmg (MM)
Warlocks are always good and have a ton of CC
Mages have TWO really good specs in Fire and Frost.
Then you have three specs that do great in bgs and in 3s, but suffer a bit in duels and in 2s especially if melee sits on them: Shadow, Ele, and Boomie. They just need a bit of peeling from time to time and they do great things. Shadow especially can't deal with most melee and goes splat. Arms is the Warrior curse; if you are part of a group and you have heals it feels pretty damn good, and if not it feels terrible and you can't even win a 1v1.
Enhance can do good, but like BM is focused a lot around bursting things down quickly. Enhance is also a bit squishy but can have offhealing almost as good as a Ret so a meme spec with potential if you're good enough. Enh definitely feels comparatively better than in Wrath PvP IMO. Frost DK is a slightly worse version of Unholy but still doable. Other Rogue specs are just worse versions of Sub and not worth it in PvP. Fury is pretty rough and just a worse version of what Arms does. Poor fury this xpac.
Enh better in cata pvp or wotlk
@@goldenmemes51 , I think it feels slighty better in Cata. Mana is better overall, and your ability to heal yourself can be very potent and a talent like Spark of Life that double dips when healing yourself is very powerful... you can take all three points in it and STILL pick up Reverberation in the Ele tree for 5 sec CD interrupts (now only 2 points instead of 5 needed).
Ghost Wolf now moves 15% faster by default and can be used indoors, which is REALLY nice (extra 5% increase with a glyph).
Other than that you are still Enhance with the same upsides/downsides as Wrath. You have insane burst that if the enemy lives through they will probably kill you. You are very squishy with weak defensive CDs. You can be easy to kite by certain things like Hunters and Frost/Fire Mages. You will likely be a target and will have to learn how to use frost shock not just to chase down enemies but to kite melee.
Compared to other specs? Well your position in the meta is about the same: You are still the underdog spec in this xpac in PvE and PvP, but good players can make it work. Nothing about it is faceroll, and if you just run in you will get blasted so positioning mistakes can be punished.
@@naejimba wow thank you ! I used to play beastcleave in wotlk classic which is bm hunter and Enh sham and was wondering if that would still b good in 2s but makes sense it’s still good then
@@goldenmemes51 , about the same as it is now: insane early on can struggle later on when players aren't as squishy. Yeah you are looking for those bursty 2s comp. You will probably be the focus with fewer defensives than hunter and powerful off healing capability.
These data are not very reliable, shadow and affliction are the kings of pve in cataclysm, fire mage is great but it is situational
Are you serious taking data from a free server?
I appreciate the effort put into this!
Whitemane is trash though and shouldnt really be used. So many things don't work on the server from basic class skills to mechanics and spell interactions. Any data from there is useless.
What abt BM and MM hunters?
BM sucks. MM viable. Survival best.
MM was historically the best Hunter spec in t11 and t12, but got multiple nerfs along the way, while SV got buffed into the skies when Dragon Soul was released.
@@Melodeath00 after doing some research abt it I think SV is gonna best in the while expansion and BM is kinda viable and MM will suck
@@darioradic117 BM is better than MM
the b in subelty is silent brev. sut el tea
100% guarantee in every raid throughout all of cata - rogue is always top or near top. Fire mage is always best on AOE fights.
yeah those were good, i just remember in dragon soul doing 100k as unholy dk's and on my ret pally topping lots of fights
Legendery Dagger carrys:3
Man I love how besides Classic Fury is always shit until the last patch of the expansion
You will be sad to know he's wrong, Fury is bad in Dragon Soul too. Fury got nerfed after Firelands which is why it's bad, and it doesn't get good at the end, everyone abandoned it for Arms.
@@EOHRyan this. It was a big deepwounds nerf. 20% nerf that forced us into arm and made me quit the game. The spec will be dead on arrival.
@@stephenscott2533 I didn't remember the specifics of the nerf, but I played Fury at the time, I remember it being "OK" in Dragon Soul, a bit like it is in Ulduar now.
Arms tho was really good because of the buff it got. If Blizz release Cata Classic on 4.3, Fury will be dead on arrvival as you said, and it will remain dead until MOP.
@@EOHRyan nah-it was only ‘ok’ when you mastery stack cheese burned ultraxion. Other than that, it was barely above the tanks
@@stephenscott2533 Barely above the tanks is a huge exaggeration.
I haven't played private servers, but they usually aren't accurate anyway. Fury wasn't great in Dragon Soul, but it was "fine" just like in Ulduar. I played Fury for much of HC Dragon Soul progress in 2012, using 1handers until I got Gurth and went Arms. 1h Fury was better than TG at the time, unless you had Gurth.
It's just Arms was much better.
Just tell me Boomkin is viable prz
I swear I thought about this today and then this video pops up! Crazy.