Thank you for making this kind of content. As a home owner that burns a fair amount of fire wood(I harvest, buck and split by hand about 7cord a year) the can gas is a guarantee that my gear will work when I need it. I recently had my 460 rebuilt and “working saw” ported. I also do some mild milling with it here and there. I’ve been running 50 to 1. But after watching some custom saw builder’s channels, similar to what you say, most of them say to run 40 to 1. I’m a self employed carpenter, I like to get the best tools I can afford at the given moment, I also like to take care of them, so they are ready to work when I need them. I see it like this, your going to spend the money and time regardless, either you spend the money and time getting the premium can gas or oil and pump gas, or you spend the money and time waiting getting your equipment fixed. There are no guarantees, but to me, when it comes time to get saw rebuilt or replacing a piece of equipment that started every damn time I needed it without fail for over 10 years, I part with the cash without regrets.
I’ve ran the same schaeffers oil at 40:1 for about 3 quarts now in many ported saws and 32:1 in my 880 that is only used for milling and have only had good results very clean and shinny inside when I pull the mufflers. Great info Rich 👏
Thanks! Very interesting. 50 years ago when I bought my first McCulloch 10 10 we used SAE 30 weight as a two-stroke mix. Indeed, I still have a full can of Homelite SAE 30 that came with my XL 12 in 1964! That saw was had 32/1 mix spec'd for it. I hadn't been known about the current JASO standards for 2-stroke engines although (I've always used JASO oils on 'wet clutch' motorcycles). Finally, even in my newer equipment that is spec'd to run 50/1 I continue to run 40/1. I may have to change plugs more often but I prefer to have the higher lubricity. I think that I'll try some 'FC' or 'FD' rated oil the next time that I pick some up. Again, thanks for the information!
I have a McCulloch 10-10 I bought from my younger brother last summer as a project. It's overall clean and in decent shape but it's missing the muffler. I took a quick look at the JASO ratings for giggles and supposedly JASO-FD is the same as JASO-FC but has a far higher detergency requirement. AMSOIL Saber, Interceptor and Dominator all have the same API-TC ratings but only Saber and Interceptor mention a JASO-FD rating. I'm guessing Dominator doesn't mention the JASO rating because it is JASO-FC so its' detergency isn't high enough. But it seems to me like all three are safe to run in a saw IMO.
I like to mix up a gallon of Klotz BeNOL for the saws and OPE in the summer. Love that smell, reminds me of all the fun riding dirt bikes when i was young.
Excellent job. Thank you. In my old Stihl 039, I have run ethanol gas with fuel stabilizer and, of course, Stihl Ultra. Now that I have a new Stihl 462, I want to run good oil and decent fuel. However, I'm not going to run the canned fuel because I ran the numbers and decided the price isn't justified. As far as infrequently used stuff, like hedge trimmers, I've been switching to battery power.
I used to run hp ultra, not anymore I've switched to hp super its fd rated and a better oil all round plus it has a stabilizer.. screw the epa I'm doing what's best for my saw, a 500i I'm going to look after it I've paid enough and I'm not going to compromise it with crap pond water oil.. love your videos and honesty..
Like you, I've tried a lot of oils. Best results for me in all my saws have been ams oil saber and opti2 running 40-45 to 1. Thanks for your assessment.
Thanks for making these videos. Most of us only take apart our own saws and other 2 stroke engines when they need a new top end. We generally only run one type of oil and have nothing to compare it to. I honestly believed Stihl Ultra must be great oil as they doubled my warranty if I bought some. Fortunately I watched your videos before I destroyed my new saw with that oil! You have great information as you see this stuff everyday! Thanks again for the information.
I really enjoy all the great real life info. I have been using ASPEN fuel . Would like to see some testing using some of the aspen 2.. Keep up the great info.
Great content Richard and as always there is never a completely right answer. I run Motul 2T in all of my saws at about 45:1 give or take a little on the beaker accuracy and the temp that I am at in the shop when I mix it. I know some motocross racers/bike builders that know more about 2 stroke engines than I’ll ever dream of knowing, and believe me those guys can make a mean chainsaw if they wanted to. Most don’t because there are better things they want to build. That’s not to say that other guys don’t know how, it’s like anything else there are levels of experience in a particular area that transfer well to some but not to others. I’ll leave it at that. I run the Ultra in my yard tools with no issues, and i’m talking everything from the old craftsman to my Stihl equipment and it doesn’t make that much sense to spend what I spend on oil for my saws. Most of the time that equipment operates it’s not WOT and heavy load stresses. Anyhow thanks for the info, and that’s how we all learn. I like what you said about thinking about it first. 👍
Používám také olej Motul ale ,,800 Factory Line Road Racing 2T" . Domnívám se že je to opravdu dobrý olej a docela pěkně voní při spalování v motorech 😁 Celý život jsem jezdil na Husqvarna XP olej ale při ceně asi 31 ,- Dolaru za litr v současné době na to seru .. Motul míchám 1.50 a benzín používám bez biosložky , ten nejlepší co je na trhu u nás v ČR .
@Richard Flagg Thank you for your honest and informative videos. There is one important bit of information I was waiting for you to share but you may have missed it. According to the JASO M345 implementation manual, regarding 2 stroke oil certification, page 4 lists a notification that JASO does NOT certify the claims that any oil actually meets their standards. They essentially take the blenders / oil company's word that it does meet one of those standards. They pay the fee they get listed on the JASO site as approved and legally get to have the stamp on the bottle.
I ran AMSOIL Dominator two cycle racing oil at 50 to 1 with up to 116 research octane race fuel in my mod race snowmobile engine for two full seasons before it got torn down one time. We normally tear them down a couple times a season. Anyway there was absolutely no scuffing or scoring on the piston skirts more like polishing. Never missed a beat or had to replace a spark plug either. Now having said that, the racing oils aren't necessarily the best for normal use however, that's why Dominator doesn't have any ratings on the bottle. They often lack rust, corrosion inhibitors and detergents, because race engines are torn down often and are usually more looked after. I would have liked to see you test the AMSOIL Saber 100 to 1 two cycle premix oil for small equipment and that kind of stuff. It's great stuff. Or the AMSOIL Interceptor two cycle oil for snow machines, watercraft & motorcycles with oil injection and exhaust valve engines. Oops, you didn't do testing, I commented before I watched, sorry bout that.
Just subscribed very good information, I have my finger about to buy some Opti-2 that I was going to try in the outboard and all the chainsaws but now I think I dig deeper for info thanks
I've watched all of your two stroke oil videos. There is consistency and continuity that runs through the entire series. They are well done and informative. But here's what I like best: Just as a competent lawyer in a court room, you present your argument without passion or prejudice. That is to say, you present facts. Like it or not, facts always trump beliefs, feelings, and suppositions. Now, I wouldn't present your argument to a jury. Why? Because your argument would leave the jury undecided in their verdict, which is exactly what, I believe, you intended. Your saw, your choice. I've been running Stihl saws for personal use since 1984. I've used Stihl Ultra oil for as long as I can remember. I've never had a problem. I have no idea what it looked like inside the engine because I've never had a reason to look. Plus, I recently sold my 024 that I bought new in 1984. That would have provided a true long term test of Ultra. The replacements, both Stihl, have very little time on them. Machines are like people in one way: They can both be dying on the inside and never show it on the outside until it's too late. I'm done with Ultra. My new choice will be an FD oil, probably Husqvarna XP+ or Amsoil Saber. Excellent job, Richard. A person in a white lab coat could not have done better!
I own Stihl 2-cycle OPE; I use Stihl oil in the orange containers, NEVER had an issue. If I did Stihl would be on the hook if it was the oil, not the gas added, I also add Stabil to the mix, because the local 89 octane gas does contain alcohol.
Thanks friend. I've been running the VP Racing full synthetic (from Tractor Supply) at 50:1 in all my OPE for 3 years. I've been happy so far. Always real gas 91 octane fuel. I'm leaning toward switching to 40:1 but I'm sticking with VP full synthetic.
I've been running the large bottle of VP racing fully synthetic as well! It's nice how easy it is to measure out the oil. I haven't had any issues with the oil itself either.
I grabbed some Castrol GO 2t oil. I swear it's the same as stihl hp orange bottle. Been working good so far and it's like 8 bucks a quart online. I go threw alot so the price helps. The small bottles are expensive!
Hi. Here in tropical Fiji, I go with Total Pro Sylva 2T Synthetic oil. With JASO FD rating and compatible with all major equipment brands and manufacturers, they are available at very competitive and affordable prices, compared to those marketed by equipment manufacturers and others. The 50:1 premixed fuel available at service stations, is a separate product like unleaded gasoline, diesel or kerosene. I venture to wager that upwards of 95% of local clearance contractors; use the premixed fuel from service stations. And to the best of my knowledge have relied on this premixed fuel for 15 years at least, maybe more. Homeowners and private owners have had almost lifetime reliability without issues. Better 2 stroke oils in the islands of Oceania depends on what is available, and what is financially convenient .
I've tried literally every two-stroke oil imaginable for my motorized bicycle. My bikes seem to like Maxima super M the best, it's a lot more forgiving with your tuning.
I have experienced many various 2-stroke oils over the years, and mixing ratio’s. To date, it is my option that the best running oil, and mixing ratio is: 40:1 and Amsoil Saber. I use recreational fuel only, to avoid ethanol E85 left in the hose.
Yeah, I run the saber at 40:1 a lot also. I use that and the VP racing 2 cycle oil at 40:1 and all of my engines are spotlessly clean inside and run great.
Richard, exceptional work. Please tell mate, if you had to choose only 2 oils to use on your saw for the rest of your days, nothing else allowed, no exceptions, what would you choose?
Klotz with techniplate has a very nostalgic smell, takes me back to growing up racing bikes and karts. Im 50 pkus now and still run it in everything 2 stroke, love that Klotz smell
Great video Richard Stihl hp is Castrol in Canada in America who knows in 40 years l never had a failure with Amsoil Sabre and the older before Sabre at 50/1 if l ran chain saws l think I would use Shaeffer at 40/1
I like the old sthil 2 stroke oil I love how it smokes I checked out my piston rings no were at all I rebuilt my sthil 441 magnum I keep use the sthil in orange bottle best one bar oil good to I try them all
I have used the Husky xp for my husky 55s life. Got low on compression so tore it down and all it needed was a new ring! Clean as a whistle inside with very minor carbon build. Very pleased with their product. Always used 40:1.
Hi Rich. I dump my fuel into a mason jar and then put it in the car fuel tank. Just make sure the car is almost full so that it gets mixed in with a bunch of clean gas. Never had a problem.
I've read and studied oil for years as a strange and weird hobby. Have like 10,000 post on the BITOG oil website. As a small engine mechanic, I have experience with 2 stroke power equipment used by lawn guys (not dirt bikes, and not high RPM race chainsaws) so my comments are based on the "average" home owner or average lawn guy. 50:1 using the latest JASO FD oil is all any homeowner or lawn guy will ever need. In my opinion and experience based on what I have seen, too much oil (running 32:1 or 40:1 in equipment that calls for 50:1) serves no purposes and has no positives. Extra oil causes extra carbon buildup and carbon buildup is what breaks off and scores cylinders and increases wear on your equipment. Your welcome to agree or disagree based on your real world experiences, but I truly honestly think that a fleet of 40:1 equipment will not last as long as a fleet of 50:1 equipment (blowers and weed whips). That's my opinion at least....
I think for the average homeowner and for most tree services you are absolutely right however with saws that have been turned up and are run hard all day out logging 40:1 seems to run cooler and runs clean I have hundreds of gallons of e10 40:1 through my saws with no carbon buildup just a light brown pattern on the piston
@@LF12468 I appreciate the comment however I am not incorrect I have thermocouple data backing up what I am saying and there has been plenty of people on here doing there own test disproving that myth
Great Video on 2 stoke engine oils! I'm Another Schaeffer's fan here. They are the oldest company in St louis. They started out making grease for wagons heading west. They mix and engineer their oils right here in St Louis. I have run it since the 90s on diesel 3/4 and 1 ton trucks hauling my own freight. I have seen the lack of engine wear at engine teardown, Look up the 1 million mile Ford V8 gasoline engine they tore down on U tube that ran Schaeffer's its entire life. It had almost zero engine wear. Under Obamas $4.00 gas I got my first non V-8, Japanese 4cyl FWD car and run Schaeffer's in its engine and Schaeffer's Trans fluid in its Japanese Transmission. I am still driving it today. I sold power tools and gasoline concrete cutting saws at my tool store and Makita's concrete demolition saws would regularly not run with Still oil 20 yrs ago and it was discovered to be the Stihl orange bottle oil. Opti-2 Oil, a synthetic 2 stoke oil, that had better specs, cured that problem. I imagine that was back near the start of these FC, FD, 2 stroke engine oils. Always run Synthetic oils in all equipment that you want to have any life expectancy. Checking the equipment Manufacturers specs is key.
I really enjoy these videos. I loved the old Homelite 16:1 mix. Not a mosquito for miles😂😂 I’ve had no luck with that canned gas from the stores. String trimmer was on strike with that 💩. Loves pump gas tho. So ethanol it is in the diet. For storage I’ve used Sta-Bil for many trips around the sun and I swear by it. Although I prefer fresh fuel. Thanks for another great video
I tried 12:1 with ND30 in my 1956 IEL Pioneer HM once. It ran surprisingly well, but damn did it make a smoke show! it actually ran better at 12:1 with the ND30 than it did at 32:1 with whatever 2 cycle oil I have mixed up at the time. The ports in the carburetor are disgustingly huge, so I suspect all the extra oil is why it runs "properly" I suppose is the right word for it.
Boat oils are intended for low temp water cooled cylinder operation, these don't contain the metal ash package for high temp air cooled engines, it's mostly a hydrazine based detergent. API-TC contains the low ash metallic detergent package necessary for air cooled 2-strokes running high temp cylinder sleeve. The amount of oil you find in the crankcase will normally be just enough to wet the crank wheels. It should be visible. Use fresh fuel only, especially if it's been mixed.
I just got a stihl backpack blower it came with xp+ fuel oil so I'll use that. In my echo trimmer I use echo power blend but I just got a new trimmer with echo red Armour. In my new stihl chainsaw I would use the same thing.
I use the expensive bottles pre-measured for one gallon despite the expense because it forces me to buy fuel more often and drunk fuel is all we have other than canned $$. I am cheap enough to flush those little bottles with some gas to get that last drop or three, I am extravogant enough to mix the oil with only 7 pints of fuel to get a more oil rich mix. I do not use as much fuel mix as in years before due to use of rechargeables for a lot of the yard work.
I have run amzoil saber for more years that I can remember, I use it in everything from a Mac 10-10 chain saw to my newer stihl blowers weed trimmer and saws.And never have to much of no carb work. I run 2oz per gallon mix in everything
I like castor oil, best lubricity than and FD. Its dirtier, but you can run way LEss, concentration like 60:1 even in a hot aircooled. Also Love the smell on cool equipment room. I do Scrap and scrub the piston and exhaust port and pipe once Every 2 Years. Throw some MMO each 3rd tank. I'm old school.
I have been using Opti-2 two cycle for many years (20+ years) in my chainsaws Stihl and Weed Wackers. This stuff has never failed me. I use my saw when a tree falls or if big branches fall to clean things up around the yard (not much use). The weed wacker is always used. I just purchased an outside wood boiler so I will be using my saws a lot more now. I just bought a new MS462 non-M-tronic and I have an MS260 and An MS170. I am very mechanically inclined, and I will take the mufflers off the saws and take pictures and send them to you if you would like. I have never looked inside the motor so this will be interesting for me to see as well. Because I will be running my saws a lot more now, I want to make sure they stay together. Thanks for what you do Richard. Russell
Been an Opti-2 user for YEARS (25+) I'm a saw porter as well...run it in trimmers, chainsaws, ANYTHING that requires oil...NEVER A PROBLEM...but you don't hear anybody talking about Opti-2 for some reason....maybe it's just old news and the trolls have newer and more improved oils to pick on now
Great video.....the best I've heard the jaso ratings explained.....did I hear you correctly that u run the schaffers??? I am considering trying it next
Stihl hp super ( made in Germany)long term user in Ireland here, running 7 saws and varuous other strimmers with zero problems. Ethanol fuel is all we have now and i run fuel stabilizer in every fill and still no issues
@@bluelightguy1 no but I've started running Stihl motomix through the tank on its last fill on a job and on any of the older vintage stuff ie McCullough and echo. The e10 has since destroyed the carb in my quad so I'm wary of it. If I have any big jobs on I go up north and get 60 litres of super unleaded e5 instead, it's not far to the border
I have always used 2 stroke equipment, I have tried pretty much every oil going - the best oil in my opinion and the one I now use exlusively is the Shindaiwa Red Armor oil
The only JASO FD rated oil made by Stihl is the Stihl Super 2 cycle. It isn't even available in the US. Not sure if this is an EPA issue or not, but I suspect that it is.
My Husky Saws are 25 + years old .. I have never even had a Carburetor apart.. I have two McCullough chain saws older than that. For the last many years have used 93 Octane E-10 .. I mix a bit Richer than 40 to 1.. in a 2.5 gallon can.. If that can of gas is over 1 year old I add a bit more oil to it. Most of this stuff gets stored in the Oil Room in my Insulated shop.. No Windows.. I always run the gas levels down low.. So I can Top off with fresh gas before starting. I have a Colman Generator Keep the gas tank full .. It sat for 3 -4 years with out starting. I shut the gas off and run the carb out of gasoline. I had Stable oil in the gas. It started on the first pull ran fine until the tank was low shut it off. It would not start again. I guess I will have to rebuild that carb. My point is where you store your gas makes a huge difference.. Inside my shop it never gets colder than about 40-F and never hotter than about 77-F and I run a Dehumidifier all summer. Leather motorcycle had been getting moldy in Michigan .. Tools were getting rusty .. so now I leave the de-humidifier plugged in all summer..
I'm a big fan of the Amsoil Saber, but it's hard to get in my area. I bought one bottle of it a few years ago when I first bought my saw new and I've been cherishing it like fine wine ever since. I still have enough left in the quart to mix another two or three gallons of fuel. I recently went to the parts store I originally bought the bottle from to see if they still had it and sadly they no longer sell it due to availability. I've used the the canned fuel a few times in between to make my bottle of Saber last longer when I was only doing a small amount of cutting here and there. But it seems using it has gummed up my saw in the process as it started bogging terribly while under power a couple of summers ago. So instead of risking frying my saw I stopped using it for that season and stored it until I could get around to working on it. Fast forward to this season and a couple of hours cleaning off all of the ambient crud it collected while sitting and I got it up and running. It took longer to clean all the dirt and random crud off of it that wasn't on it when I stored it than it did to get it going again. I took the advice of someone I know who has worked on saws for a few years and ran a cap full of Star Brite enzyme cleaner in it at idle for about 30 minutes and it's been golden since. Since I can't get my Amsoil Saber in store like I'd prefer I bought a quart of Amsoil Interceptor & Dominator to give a go and see which one works the best. I'd prefer buying in store first before having to resort to buying from the internet. But as much as I'd like to buy in store it seems I'm most likely just going to start ordering my oil from Amsoil directly anyway. They seem to offer a yearly membership through them that will get you good discounts on their oil. Seems like a win-win to me especially when you can get it cheaper than in store. I also just took a quick peek at the JASO ratings for giggles and it says JASO-FD is the same as JASO-FC but with far higher detergency requirements. That's probably why Amsoil doesn't bother advertising the JASO rating on their Dominator oil, the additive package isn't as high. Saber, Interceptor and Dominator all have the same API-TC rating on the bottle and Interceptor mentions a JASO-FD rating. So from I'm getting out of it all three are safe to run in a saw. Just my observation. 😁
@@daviddelle774 Sadly the only store near me that sold Saber no longer sells it anymore. But after watching some chainsaw videos over the week I see a lot of people also run Interceptor and Dominator in their saws. Both of which are sold at our local Runnings store as a normal product in both quart and gallon sizes. So I'll just stick with those. Especially since I stick to running a standard 50:1 mix. Saber is engineered to run at a leaner mix. So I'm kind of wasting its' potential not wanting to run my saw leaner than 50:1. I'll probably end up buying my oil directly from AMSOIL at some point. They offer deals for buying directly from them and you can get it in sizes a store normally doesn't sell. :)
My Husky HP oil states JASO FB/ISO EGB Rotax 353 Snowmobile test… Run at 40:1 or so in a Husky 460 saw and Mitsubishi whipper snipper. Usually 98octane, not ethanol ever.
I am very happy using Amsoil dominator in my 2 stroke dirt bike. Amsoil is a polyalphaolefin oil. Maybe saber is better for smaller engines than dominator.
with amsoil saber saying they can go to 100:1 since there base oil is different then the rest where others need 50:1 to meet the same amount. I assume running saber at 50:1 is more then enough oil as that's theoretically 25:1 as a conventional oil.
Sawing for over 20 years. I am not a professional. Started on Huskys stuff back before 2000. Ran it mostly through 2014 with no issues noticed. Began to dabble with Husky canned fuel and Red Armor mix. I have run about a dozen gallons of Makita's synthetic mix lately in combination with canned fuel, and Red Armor mix. No bad carbon issues and haven't lost a crank bearing yet. I maintain 8 miles of trials and several lots on 200 acres of eastern hardwoods. 10-12 cord of firewood per year, typically. Gasoline freshness has as much to do with carbon as the oil, according to my weed eater. 50:1 always.
Hi Richard! Nice vid,y just purchased a brand new 201TC and a 261 and they sold me there oil for the suppose warranty for the brake in should i run VP 40:1 Looking for advice i spend a good chunk of money on these here in Québec Thanks in advance
Sounds like something to keep in mind regarding, say, a small generator that might burn a few *gallons* at a time. (In contrast, compared to an engine which might run three *quarts* a year at the outside. This too would be for a generator - a 60 volt DC generator, one light enough to put on or in a bicycle trailer.)
I've been running stihl ultra for the last 20yrs....so far so good...knock on wood(no pun intended)I also put 1oz sea foam per gallon mix all the time. How do you feel about sea foam? Thx for your content.
I watched a video awhile back on Sthil ultra 1 gallon shot bottles for 50:1. When dumped in a measuring cup it was more than 2.6 ounces for 50:1. Maybe they add extra for people measuring their gas from the pump for a safety net. I've been running the Sthil Ultra for quite some time now with no problem, but I feel like it does better when keeping the engine rpm's higher. Seems like it will foul up an arrestor screen quick if your not. Think I'm gonna give the Echo Red Armor a try at 40:1 and see how it does.
Curious on your thoughts for Redline two stroke, been using for many years and works very well. Switched from Ultra. Always used VP non-ethanol fuels. The Redline two stroke is recommended by many in the small engine arena ( small model airplanes type two strokes) as those require very clean burning oils and fuels, they claim nothing they tried works as well. Thanks for all your time an effort...Stay Well
The Redline all sport oil is FC rated and the Racing oil is a step up. I couldn't find a JASO rating for it, but it sounds like an excellent product with a lot of testing behind it.
Good breakdown of the oils👍🏻 for fuel, none of my small engine equipment has seen ethanol blended gas in the last 10 years. Mowers, generators and most all my 4 cycle equipment gets non ethanol pump gas when in season, 100ll avgas for storage or low/sporadic use. 2 cycle equipment gets the same non e IF I'm going to be using a LOT of fuel for a job or project. Otherwise I use 100ll, sunoco 260gtx or canned 4 cycle fuel mixed with oil and rarely ever use a piece of 2t equipment without a corresponding adjustment screwdriver in my pocket.
For those who can get Avgas, that's about the best fuel for storage and sparce use. Everyday use too (if you can afford it). I should have mentioned it. Thanks Aaron!
@@richardflagg3084 love everything about avgas except the very minimal amount of lead! And would advise caution if mixing castor based oils in it due to its low specific gravity of around 0.71 and the potential for separation. I've see castor 927 fall out of suspension as warm as 50 degrees F in it! Hence why I'm currently using sunoco 260gtx. With a specific gravity of 0.76 I've seen no separation in a sample kept at -5 degrees F for a week.
@@MrJeepfreak1972 12 years ago, 100ll had around 2 grams lead per gallon. I've heard that level has been slowly dropping since then but have no idea if that's true. Leaded gas of the late 70's had around 1 gram of lead per gallon so yes, roughly double. George Braly of GAMI has come up with an unleaded drop in replacement called G100ul that is gaining approvals! Hopefully it'll be widely available within a couple years!
As for "Canned" fuel, I got a can of TRUFUEL and my backpack blower wouldn't run well enough to work properly and it was hard to start. My string trimmer wouldn't work as well either. I tried re-tuning the carb and that didn't help. I went back to ethanal free. and all was well again. I didn't try it in any of my saws after finding out how bad it worked.
I live in the Seattle area and I have nothing but ethanol fuel. I found out a little trick with that I did a test over two years. I had to 1 gallon cans and mixed steel oil with it left it in one pan for over two years and it ran flawlessly now I’ll tell you what I did I capped off all the air from the tank I didn’t seal the tank. I just capped off the free air so I closed the vent. They close the fill tube that you fill it through at the gas station and I closed the pourspout. I did not seal the pourspout the can could still vent if it needed to, but I closed off the free air that fuel at two years older and it’s good as fresh fuel so there’s a way to handle the fuel.
In small 2 strokes that normally get run at fairly high rpm , the worst that can happen is eventually the spark arester gets plugged, easy fix. For bigger 2 strokes like 250cc and up motorcycle s with a power valve , its nice to not have as much carbon on the power valve and less smoke at lower rpm. I tend to use lower flash point oil like motool 700 in my trail ridden dirt bikes and a little higher flash point like Maxima super m in my smaller harder run motors . But it all works and until you really jack up compression and run hard for a long time and or run exotic fuels than there are some legitimate needs for different oils
Great video! What are your thoughts about using 100LL in 2-stroke equipment? I read that it doesn't leave varnish behind if/when it evaporates and also contains no alcohol. Thanks.
Well given that lead poisoning is a real concern, especially handheld power equipment, and FBO’s are cracking down on selling to the public for non-airplane use, it’s pretty damn stupid.
Just did some quick googling and compared the technical data sheets from schaeffers and amsoil comparing the tc-w3 to saber and the data shows that saber is a thicker oil and has a higher flash point. saber at 40C = 107.4 tc-w3 at 40C = 29-39 saber at 100C = 14 tc-w3 at 100C = 5.5-7.5 saber flashpoint ASTM D92 = 356F tc-w3 flashpoint ASTM D92 = 219F schaeffers 2 stroke oil has similar specs to tc-w3 These specs to me would indicate that saber would be the better oil since its thicker and holds up to heat better? This might be one of the reasons why treemonkey runs schaeffers at 32:1. It would help makeup that difference in viscosity and increase the protection. I also just thought that saber is 2x thicker then schaeffers and if schaeffers runs fine at 5-7 and saber is at 14 then if you thin the oil down to that 100:1 your closer to that 5-7 range. Maybe that's the magic number for 2 strokes to live happy??? Now I have no clue what I'm talking about but It was just a dumb thought. But with treemokey juicing up his mix to 32:1 that would skew the results more towards sabers favor of adding more oil for greater protection so maybe the 5-7 range isnt enough???? The only true way to know would be 2 identical engines used in the same conditions running their own mixes.
Thanks for adding all the info. I did a handful of low tech tests with these. Saber has one of the best detergent packages on the market. At 40:1 in some semi long term tests it still burns very clean. Both of these oils are excellent oils to use.
I read an article that said that TC-W3 was the highest rated two Stroke Oil, then found out later that it's just a bio-degradable sped for outboard motors.. where the exhaust has Lake Water run through it .
I have used valvoline or amalie 2 stroke oil for years and even used 40 weight engine oil mixed at 20:1 for all my saws and have never had an engine wear out or blow up in 25 years and I cut a lot of firewood and brush too. more oil is the key to long engine life. I know a guy that always mixed his gas at 50:1 with stihl brand oil and he burned his engine up in 6 months of hard use getting out logs
I ran and am still running a Stihl 261 for the last 10 years on stihl oil mixed 50:1. Ran it hard and dull many times because I was too lazy to sharpen the chain towards the end of the day. Even ran it more lean than it should have been many times. The saw never gave me one issue and the piston and cylinder look brand new. Run the same fuel in a 4mix trimmer for the last 10 years for hundreds and hundreds of hours with zero issues. I guess when they give out in another 10 years of hard use, I can join the club and blame Stihl oil.
why dont you use straight gasoline in your saws then you wont have any bad smoke at all. you want to make a stupid comment. here is one for you@@mracer8
I'm using Castrol POWER1 RACING 2T for many years, my equipment runs flawlessly, no smoke, clean sparkplugs, great compression, great throttle response... Strongly recommended for mixing 2%. I won't experiment with oils. I found perfect one!
@@margelatutrandafirulgalben3156 For 5L of mixed fuel you need 4,9L of gasoline and 100mL of oil. For 10L of mixed fuel you need 9,8L of gasoline and 200mL of oil. One sidenote that almost nobody knows is: For Stihl engines you need at least 89 R+M/2 ( American rating Ron + Mon devided by 2) which would be 93 rating by RON. So in North America don't use 87 for mixing. In Europe we don't have that low ratings. Our lowest is RON 95 which would be 91 in USA and we have 98 which is 93 by American and we have 100 which would be 95 un USA but there is no gasoline there over 93...
I did some google digging and the store brand Powercare 2 cycle oil sold at Home Depot is made by Omni Specialty Packaging out of Shreveport, LA. Also, further digging, shows that Stihl HP oil safety data sheet shows it IS ALSO MADE AT THE SAME EXACT Omni Specialty Packaging facility.
You're right Omni blends a lot of oil for different companies. I'd have to speculate most of those recipes are proprietary blends and the off brands can't have the same recipe as those that have paid for the JASO or API certifications. Just something to think about.
When you say going 40 to 1 wont cause an issue do you account for having more oil and making the actual Fuel to Air ratio leaner. I don't know how much leaner it can end up being but I've seen in motorcycle two stroke oil discussions that it could be an issue ?
I have been using Alco no smoke, and hi-test ethanol free gas in all my 2 stroke. Now they don't make alco anymore. Just replaced a plug, fuel filter, and air filter on ms 170 stihl, 15 years old. Not bad huh.
Good job excellent video! I’m running Saber 40:1 and happy. I also have dominator, castor 927, stihl hp ultra and some minerals all of which are taking a back seat for now. Ether the smell gives me a headache (minerals) or they run dirty in my equipment and the way I use them (dominator, 927, ultra)
About to finish my first 5gal of about ~40:1 saber. I was running ~65:1. both run great. the ~40:1 sends a decent amount of oil out the exhaust. ZERO hard carbon but im going to do 50-55:1 on my next 5 gal jug and see how it does. 40:1 would probably be great on a milling saw there is CERTAINLY excess oil in the system.
@@mattfleming86hey, yeah I actually have moved to 65:1 which is half way between 50:1 and 80:1. Who knows, I may change to 80:1 or 50:1 at some point haha.
How does the Lucas and Valvoline stuff compare that you can buy in the quart jugs - if anyone has come into your shop running those? Only ask because I actually mix it in and use it with diesel fuel. Want lubricant, but something that will burn clean and not leave a lot of carbon behind. I ran Schaeffer's for years oil wise - good stuff, but can get stuff cheaper in a closer comparison for what I'm running.
I believe that FC 2T oil is low ash. Ash is an extreme, high heat lubricant, but it is a little "dirty." FD 2T oil is ashless. In an extreme duty situation (racing) FC may be better for protecting your race engine.
Do you think these startron fuel stabilizer actually takes the ethanol out of the gas like it says. Also I have been using the Sabre oil for years. How many ounces do you recommend to mix per gallon of gas. I use 2 ounces per gallon. Thanks for the great videos.
Anybody know if the rotary engine is safe to use with purely 2-stroke oil? I know some people mix it with the fuel, but I haven't heard of any instances of purely 2-stroke being used instead of synthetic. My thought was that synthetic isn't designed to burn, and as we all know the rotary engines love to burn oil, so if you're burning synthetic it's just going to gunk up the motor. I would assume as long as you're topping it off regularly and have the correct viscosity that then 2-stroke alone would be sufficient and potentially better overall.
2:50 so the FD "exhaust system blocking" double means it blocks 2x as much or 2x as less? I use Sthil ultra on my 2 strokes and the carbon on the exhaust builds up consistently. Do you think I should switch to the Echo red armor?
Many folks let their gas cans get hot in the sun, so gas evaporates and the mix gets oil rich. Best to mix small batches. Keep gas cans in shaded or cool area and use fresh non-ethonol gas. If you start with more than 50:1 or 40:1 and mixture gets more oil rich after gas evaporates, that could become a cruddy problem, especially if idling the saw a lot or running at half throttle etc. I've seen a lot of people run a saw like driving a car for whatever reason. Instead, most of the time saws are supposed to be run full throttle in the cut under load.
OK so I’m new to the channel but all I gotta say is thanks a lot you got me all thinking about this oil thing. My question is stihl ultra flashpoint of a 428 and sabre has a flashpoint of 200 and something flashpoint a higher flashpoint design for a small engine like a chainsaw run very hot
Flash point is one piece of the puzzle and can be confusing. I think the reason Ultra has a higher flash point is it's higher ester oil content and minimum amount of additives to allow it to burn cleaner in a wide range of operating conditions. Hence the JASO FB rating. The more I've read and learned, better viscosity at the higher temps will prevent engine wear. Pair that with a decent detergent package (JASO FC and FD) and you've got a winner.
Always excellent info, thanks Mr. Richard.
Great job thanks for taking the time to do this .
Thank you!
Thank you for making this kind of content. As a home owner that burns a fair amount of fire wood(I harvest, buck and split by hand about 7cord a year) the can gas is a guarantee that my gear will work when I need it. I recently had my 460 rebuilt and “working saw” ported. I also do some mild milling with it here and there. I’ve been running 50 to 1. But after watching some custom saw builder’s channels, similar to what you say, most of them say to run 40 to 1.
I’m a self employed carpenter, I like to get the best tools I can afford at the given moment, I also like to take care of them, so they are ready to work when I need them.
I see it like this, your going to spend the money and time regardless, either you spend the money and time getting the premium can gas or oil and pump gas, or you spend the money and time waiting getting your equipment fixed. There are no guarantees, but to me, when it comes time to get saw rebuilt or replacing a piece of equipment that started every damn time I needed it without fail for over 10 years, I part with the cash without regrets.
I’ve ran the same schaeffers oil at 40:1 for about 3 quarts now in many ported saws and 32:1 in my 880 that is only used for milling and have only had good results very clean and shinny inside when I pull the mufflers. Great info Rich 👏
I run belray h1r in my 2 strokes definitely more per quart but I haven't had any issues what so ever. And the smell is something to rev for.
A man that knows what he's on about! thank you Richard👍
Thanks! Very interesting. 50 years ago when I bought my first McCulloch 10 10 we used SAE 30 weight as a two-stroke mix. Indeed, I still have a full can of Homelite SAE 30 that came with my XL 12 in 1964! That saw was had 32/1 mix spec'd for it. I hadn't been known about the current JASO standards for 2-stroke engines although (I've always used JASO oils on 'wet clutch' motorcycles). Finally, even in my newer equipment that is spec'd to run 50/1 I continue to run 40/1. I may have to change plugs more often but I prefer to have the higher lubricity. I think that I'll try some 'FC' or 'FD' rated oil the next time that I pick some up. Again, thanks for the information!
I have a McCulloch 10-10 I bought from my younger brother last summer as a project. It's overall clean and in decent shape but it's missing the muffler. I took a quick look at the JASO ratings for giggles and supposedly JASO-FD is the same as JASO-FC but has a far higher detergency requirement. AMSOIL Saber, Interceptor and Dominator all have the same API-TC ratings but only Saber and Interceptor mention a JASO-FD rating. I'm guessing Dominator doesn't mention the JASO rating because it is JASO-FC so its' detergency isn't high enough. But it seems to me like all three are safe to run in a saw IMO.
I like to mix up a gallon of Klotz BeNOL for the saws and OPE in the summer. Love that smell, reminds me of all the fun riding dirt bikes when i was young.
Nothing like it ! 👍
Excellent job. Thank you. In my old Stihl 039, I have run ethanol gas with fuel stabilizer and, of course, Stihl Ultra. Now that I have a new Stihl 462, I want to run good oil and decent fuel. However, I'm not going to run the canned fuel because I ran the numbers and decided the price isn't justified. As far as infrequently used stuff, like hedge trimmers, I've been switching to battery power.
I used to run hp ultra, not anymore I've switched to hp super its fd rated and a better oil all round plus it has a stabilizer.. screw the epa I'm doing what's best for my saw, a 500i I'm going to look after it I've paid enough and I'm not going to compromise it with crap pond water oil.. love your videos and honesty..
Like you, I've tried a lot of oils. Best results for me in all my saws have been ams oil saber and opti2 running 40-45 to 1. Thanks for your assessment.
My choice exactly. 👍
Awesome job with this. Oils are a super big black hole with a crazy amount of "variables". You are making full sense
Thanks for making these videos. Most of us only take apart our own saws and other 2 stroke engines when they need a new top end. We generally only run one type of oil and have nothing to compare it to. I honestly believed Stihl Ultra must be great oil as they doubled my warranty if I bought some. Fortunately I watched your videos before I destroyed my new saw with that oil! You have great information as you see this stuff everyday! Thanks again for the information.
I really enjoy all the great real life info. I have been using ASPEN fuel . Would like to see some testing using some of the aspen 2.. Keep up the great info.
Great content Richard and as always there is never a completely right answer. I run Motul 2T in all of my saws at about 45:1 give or take a little on the beaker accuracy and the temp that I am at in the shop when I mix it. I know some motocross racers/bike builders that know more about 2 stroke engines than I’ll ever dream of knowing, and believe me those guys can make a mean chainsaw if they wanted to. Most don’t because there are better things they want to build. That’s not to say that other guys don’t know how, it’s like anything else there are levels of experience in a particular area that transfer well to some but not to others. I’ll leave it at that.
I run the Ultra in my yard tools with no issues, and i’m talking everything from the old craftsman to my Stihl equipment and it doesn’t make that much sense to spend what I spend on oil for my saws. Most of the time that equipment operates it’s not WOT and heavy load stresses.
Anyhow thanks for the info, and that’s how we all learn. I like what you said about thinking about it first.
👍
Používám také olej Motul ale ,,800 Factory Line Road Racing 2T" . Domnívám se že je to opravdu dobrý olej a docela pěkně voní při spalování v motorech 😁
Celý život jsem jezdil na Husqvarna XP olej ale při ceně asi 31 ,- Dolaru za litr v současné době na to seru .. Motul míchám 1.50 a benzín používám bez biosložky , ten nejlepší co je na trhu u nás v ČR .
@Richard Flagg
Thank you for your honest and informative videos.
There is one important bit of information I was waiting for you to share but you may have missed it. According to the JASO M345 implementation manual, regarding 2 stroke oil certification, page 4 lists a notification that JASO does NOT certify the claims that any oil actually meets their standards. They essentially take the blenders / oil company's word that it does meet one of those standards. They pay the fee they get listed on the JASO site as approved and legally get to have the stamp on the bottle.
Valid point!
I ran AMSOIL Dominator two cycle racing oil at 50 to 1 with up to 116 research octane race fuel in my mod race snowmobile engine for two full seasons before it got torn down one time. We normally tear them down a couple times a season. Anyway there was absolutely no scuffing or scoring on the piston skirts more like polishing. Never missed a beat or had to replace a spark plug either.
Now having said that, the racing oils aren't necessarily the best for normal use however, that's why Dominator doesn't have any ratings on the bottle. They often lack rust, corrosion inhibitors and detergents, because race engines are torn down often and are usually more looked after. I would have liked to see you test the AMSOIL Saber 100 to 1 two cycle premix oil for small equipment and that kind of stuff. It's great stuff. Or the AMSOIL Interceptor two cycle oil for snow machines, watercraft & motorcycles with oil injection and exhaust valve engines.
Oops, you didn't do testing, I commented before I watched, sorry bout that.
Just subscribed very good information, I have my finger about to buy some Opti-2 that I was going to try in the outboard and all the chainsaws but now I think I dig deeper for info thanks
I use Klotz Super Techiplate in all my Saws and Stihl products. Great oil and the exhaust smells nice. :)
Don't do Klotz,,, carbon & spooge
I like the VP small engine 2 cycle oil. It’s FD rated and then some
Glad to hear you mention VP
That’s actually what I use
I’ve got a bunch of Stihl gallon premix cans. They are now my cans for Red Armor mix lol. 😂
Nice
I've watched all of your two stroke oil videos. There is consistency and continuity that runs through the entire series. They are well done and informative.
But here's what I like best: Just as a competent lawyer in a court room, you present your argument without passion or prejudice. That is to say, you present facts. Like it or not, facts always trump beliefs, feelings, and suppositions.
Now, I wouldn't present your argument to a jury. Why? Because your argument would leave the jury undecided in their verdict, which is exactly what, I believe, you intended. Your saw, your choice.
I've been running Stihl saws for personal use since 1984. I've used Stihl Ultra oil for as long as I can remember. I've never had a problem. I have no idea what it looked like inside the engine because I've never had a reason to look. Plus, I recently sold my 024 that I bought new in 1984. That would have provided a true long term test of Ultra. The replacements, both Stihl, have very little time on them.
Machines are like people in one way: They can both be dying on the inside and never show it on the outside until it's too late.
I'm done with Ultra. My new choice will be an FD oil, probably Husqvarna XP+ or Amsoil Saber.
Excellent job, Richard. A person in a white lab coat could not have done better!
Wow! Thank you!!
I own Stihl 2-cycle OPE; I use Stihl oil in the orange containers, NEVER had an issue. If I did Stihl would be on the hook if it was the oil, not the gas added, I also add Stabil to the mix, because the local 89 octane gas does contain alcohol.
Thanks friend. I've been running the VP Racing full synthetic (from Tractor Supply) at 50:1 in all my OPE for 3 years. I've been happy so far. Always real gas 91 octane fuel. I'm leaning toward switching to 40:1 but I'm sticking with VP full synthetic.
I've been running the large bottle of VP racing fully synthetic as well! It's nice how easy it is to measure out the oil. I haven't had any issues with the oil itself either.
Oh, and I only use Ethanol free from country mark! It's affordable and 90 octane
I grabbed some Castrol GO 2t oil. I swear it's the same as stihl hp orange bottle. Been working good so far and it's like 8 bucks a quart online. I go threw alot so the price helps. The small bottles are expensive!
Hi. Here in tropical Fiji, I go with Total Pro Sylva 2T Synthetic oil. With JASO FD rating and compatible with all major equipment brands and manufacturers, they are available at very competitive and affordable prices, compared to those marketed by equipment manufacturers and others. The 50:1 premixed fuel available at service stations, is a separate product like unleaded gasoline, diesel or kerosene. I venture to wager that upwards of 95% of local clearance contractors; use the premixed fuel from service stations. And to the best of my knowledge have relied on this premixed fuel for 15 years at least, maybe more. Homeowners and private owners have had almost lifetime reliability without issues. Better 2 stroke oils in the islands of Oceania depends on what is available, and what is financially convenient .
I've tried literally every two-stroke oil imaginable for my motorized bicycle. My bikes seem to like Maxima super M the best, it's a lot more forgiving with your tuning.
I have experienced many various 2-stroke oils over the years, and mixing ratio’s. To date, it is my option that the best running oil, and mixing ratio is: 40:1 and Amsoil Saber. I use recreational fuel only, to avoid ethanol E85 left in the hose.
Yeah, I run the saber at 40:1 a lot also. I use that and the VP racing 2 cycle oil at 40:1 and all of my engines are spotlessly clean inside and run great.
Richard, exceptional work. Please tell mate, if you had to choose only 2 oils to use on your saw for the rest of your days, nothing else allowed, no exceptions, what would you choose?
Great Video, Simply Put 👌
I’ve used Echo power blend in all my saws for years now, buy it in the 1 gallon container.
I like the Bel-Ray H1R 100% synthetic ester 👌
Klotz with techniplate has a very nostalgic smell, takes me back to growing up racing bikes and karts. Im 50 pkus now and still run it in everything 2 stroke, love that Klotz smell
Great video Richard Stihl hp is Castrol in Canada in America who knows in 40 years l never had a failure with Amsoil Sabre and the older before Sabre at 50/1 if l ran chain saws l think I would use Shaeffer at 40/1
Blended by a company called opti chemical, they make the orange bottle, Stihl ultra and all the bar oils.
I like the old sthil 2 stroke oil I love how it smokes I checked out my piston rings no were at all I rebuilt my sthil 441 magnum I keep use the sthil in orange bottle best one bar oil good to I try them all
I have used the Husky xp for my husky 55s life. Got low on compression so tore it down and all it needed was a new ring! Clean as a whistle inside with very minor carbon build. Very pleased with their product. Always used 40:1.
Husky xp the full synthetic one?
Hi Rich. I dump my fuel into a mason jar and then put it in the car fuel tank. Just make sure the car is almost full so that it gets mixed in with a bunch of clean gas. Never had a problem.
For small amounts, you can kill ants with it.
I've read and studied oil for years as a strange and weird hobby. Have like 10,000 post on the BITOG oil website. As a small engine mechanic, I have experience with 2 stroke power equipment used by lawn guys (not dirt bikes, and not high RPM race chainsaws) so my comments are based on the "average" home owner or average lawn guy. 50:1 using the latest JASO FD oil is all any homeowner or lawn guy will ever need. In my opinion and experience based on what I have seen, too much oil (running 32:1 or 40:1 in equipment that calls for 50:1) serves no purposes and has no positives. Extra oil causes extra carbon buildup and carbon buildup is what breaks off and scores cylinders and increases wear on your equipment. Your welcome to agree or disagree based on your real world experiences, but I truly honestly think that a fleet of 40:1 equipment will not last as long as a fleet of 50:1 equipment (blowers and weed whips). That's my opinion at least....
I think for the average homeowner and for most tree services you are absolutely right however with saws that have been turned up and are run hard all day out logging 40:1 seems to run cooler and runs clean I have hundreds of gallons of e10 40:1 through my saws with no carbon buildup just a light brown pattern on the piston
@@jrslogging
Incorrect sir. More oil = more heat.
@@LF12468 I appreciate the comment however I am not incorrect I have thermocouple data backing up what I am saying and there has been plenty of people on here doing there own test disproving that myth
@@jrslogging I would like to see your data that shows if you use more oil it causes cooler temperatures. Where can I find this information?
@@LF12468 I'll dig out my stuff and find a way of posting it here even if it's a slide show type video.
Great Video on 2 stoke engine oils! I'm Another Schaeffer's fan here. They are the oldest company in St louis. They started out making grease for wagons heading west. They mix and engineer their oils right here in St Louis. I have run it since the 90s on diesel 3/4 and 1 ton trucks hauling my own freight. I have seen the lack of engine wear at engine teardown, Look up the 1 million mile Ford V8 gasoline engine they tore down on U tube that ran Schaeffer's its entire life. It had almost zero engine wear. Under Obamas $4.00 gas I got my first non V-8, Japanese 4cyl FWD car and run Schaeffer's in its engine and Schaeffer's Trans fluid in its Japanese Transmission. I am still driving it today. I sold power tools and gasoline concrete cutting saws at my tool store and Makita's concrete demolition saws would regularly not run with Still oil 20 yrs ago and it was discovered to be the Stihl orange bottle oil. Opti-2 Oil, a synthetic 2 stoke oil, that had better specs, cured that problem. I imagine that was back near the start of these FC, FD, 2 stroke engine oils. Always run Synthetic oils in all equipment that you want to have any life expectancy. Checking the equipment Manufacturers specs is key.
I really enjoy these videos. I loved the old Homelite 16:1 mix. Not a mosquito for miles😂😂
I’ve had no luck with that canned gas from the stores. String trimmer was on strike with that 💩. Loves pump gas tho. So ethanol it is in the diet.
For storage I’ve used Sta-Bil for many trips around the sun and I swear by it. Although I prefer fresh fuel. Thanks for another great video
Sta-bil is awesome, even on ethanol fuel. The canned gas is a rip off.
I tried 12:1 with ND30 in my 1956 IEL Pioneer HM once. It ran surprisingly well, but damn did it make a smoke show! it actually ran better at 12:1 with the ND30 than it did at 32:1 with whatever 2 cycle oil I have mixed up at the time. The ports in the carburetor are disgustingly huge, so I suspect all the extra oil is why it runs "properly" I suppose is the right word for it.
Boat oils are intended for low temp water cooled cylinder operation, these don't contain the metal ash package for high temp air cooled engines, it's mostly a hydrazine based detergent. API-TC contains the low ash metallic detergent package necessary for air cooled 2-strokes running high temp cylinder sleeve.
The amount of oil you find in the crankcase will normally be just enough to wet the crank wheels. It should be visible.
Use fresh fuel only, especially if it's been mixed.
Great video, thanks !!!!
I just got a stihl backpack blower it came with xp+ fuel oil so I'll use that. In my echo trimmer I use echo power blend but I just got a new trimmer with echo red Armour. In my new stihl chainsaw I would use the same thing.
I use the expensive bottles pre-measured for one gallon despite the expense because it forces me to buy fuel more often and drunk fuel is all we have other than canned $$. I am cheap enough to flush those little bottles with some gas to get that last drop or three, I am extravogant enough to mix the oil with only 7 pints of fuel to get a more oil rich mix. I do not use as much fuel mix as in years before due to use of rechargeables for a lot of the yard work.
I have run amzoil saber for more years that I can remember, I use it in everything from a Mac 10-10 chain saw to my newer stihl blowers weed trimmer and saws.And never have to much of no carb work. I run 2oz per gallon mix in everything
I like castor oil, best lubricity than and FD. Its dirtier, but you can run way LEss, concentration like 60:1 even in a hot aircooled. Also Love the smell on cool equipment room. I do Scrap and scrub the piston and exhaust port and pipe once Every 2 Years. Throw some MMO each 3rd tank. I'm old school.
I have been using Opti-2 two cycle for many years (20+ years) in my chainsaws Stihl and Weed Wackers. This stuff has never failed me. I use my saw when a tree falls or if big branches fall to clean things up around the yard (not much use). The weed wacker is always used. I just purchased an outside wood boiler so I will be using my saws a lot more now. I just bought a new MS462 non-M-tronic and I have an MS260 and An MS170. I am very mechanically inclined, and I will take the mufflers off the saws and take pictures and send them to you if you would like. I have never looked inside the motor so this will be interesting for me to see as well. Because I will be running my saws a lot more now, I want to make sure they stay together.
Thanks for what you do Richard.
Russell
Been an Opti-2 user for YEARS (25+) I'm a saw porter as well...run it in trimmers, chainsaws, ANYTHING that requires oil...NEVER A PROBLEM...but you don't hear anybody talking about Opti-2 for some reason....maybe it's just old news and the trolls have newer and more improved oils to pick on now
@@curtisbaker5407how much of the opti 2 do you use in a gallon of gas
@@brucelewis1017 3.2 ounces at 40:1
Great video.....the best I've heard the jaso ratings explained.....did I hear you correctly that u run the schaffers??? I am considering trying it next
Yup. It does a fine job for a "boat oil"
Stihl hp super ( made in Germany)long term user in Ireland here, running 7 saws and varuous other strimmers with zero problems. Ethanol fuel is all we have now and i run fuel stabilizer in every fill and still no issues
Do you remove your ethanol?
@@bluelightguy1 no but I've started running Stihl motomix through the tank on its last fill on a job and on any of the older vintage stuff ie McCullough and echo. The e10 has since destroyed the carb in my quad so I'm wary of it. If I have any big jobs on I go up north and get 60 litres of super unleaded e5 instead, it's not far to the border
I have always used 2 stroke equipment, I have tried pretty much every oil going - the best oil in my opinion and the one I now use exlusively is the Shindaiwa Red Armor oil
The only JASO FD rated oil made by Stihl is the Stihl Super 2 cycle. It isn't even available in the US. Not sure if this is an EPA issue or not, but I suspect that it is.
I started using 2 stroke boat oil in my weed eater so far so good it seems to run a lot better
My Husky Saws are 25 + years old .. I have never even had a Carburetor apart.. I have two McCullough chain saws older than that.
For the last many years have used 93 Octane E-10 .. I mix a bit Richer than 40 to 1.. in a 2.5 gallon can.. If that can of gas is over 1 year old I add a bit more oil to it.
Most of this stuff gets stored in the Oil Room in my Insulated shop.. No Windows.. I always run the gas levels down low.. So I can Top off with fresh gas before starting.
I have a Colman Generator Keep the gas tank full .. It sat for 3 -4 years with out starting. I shut the gas off and run the carb out of gasoline. I had Stable oil in the gas. It started on the first pull ran fine until the tank was low shut it off. It would not start again. I guess I will have to rebuild that carb.
My point is where you store your gas makes a huge difference.. Inside my shop it never gets colder than about 40-F and never hotter than about 77-F and I run a Dehumidifier all summer. Leather motorcycle had been getting moldy in Michigan .. Tools were getting rusty .. so now I leave the de-humidifier plugged in all summer..
I'm a big fan of the Amsoil Saber, but it's hard to get in my area. I bought one bottle of it a few years ago when I first bought my saw new and I've been cherishing it like fine wine ever since. I still have enough left in the quart to mix another two or three gallons of fuel. I recently went to the parts store I originally bought the bottle from to see if they still had it and sadly they no longer sell it due to availability.
I've used the the canned fuel a few times in between to make my bottle of Saber last longer when I was only doing a small amount of cutting here and there. But it seems using it has gummed up my saw in the process as it started bogging terribly while under power a couple of summers ago. So instead of risking frying my saw I stopped using it for that season and stored it until I could get around to working on it.
Fast forward to this season and a couple of hours cleaning off all of the ambient crud it collected while sitting and I got it up and running. It took longer to clean all the dirt and random crud off of it that wasn't on it when I stored it than it did to get it going again. I took the advice of someone I know who has worked on saws for a few years and ran a cap full of Star Brite enzyme cleaner in it at idle for about 30 minutes and it's been golden since.
Since I can't get my Amsoil Saber in store like I'd prefer I bought a quart of Amsoil Interceptor & Dominator to give a go and see which one works the best. I'd prefer buying in store first before having to resort to buying from the internet. But as much as I'd like to buy in store it seems I'm most likely just going to start ordering my oil from Amsoil directly anyway. They seem to offer a yearly membership through them that will get you good discounts on their oil. Seems like a win-win to me especially when you can get it cheaper than in store.
I also just took a quick peek at the JASO ratings for giggles and it says JASO-FD is the same as JASO-FC but with far higher detergency requirements. That's probably why Amsoil doesn't bother advertising the JASO rating on their Dominator oil, the additive package isn't as high. Saber, Interceptor and Dominator all have the same API-TC rating on the bottle and Interceptor mentions a JASO-FD rating. So from I'm getting out of it all three are safe to run in a saw. Just my observation. 😁
The ACE hardware's in my area carry it.
@@daviddelle774 Sadly the only store near me that sold Saber no longer sells it anymore. But after watching some chainsaw videos over the week I see a lot of people also run Interceptor and Dominator in their saws.
Both of which are sold at our local Runnings store as a normal product in both quart and gallon sizes. So I'll just stick with those. Especially since I stick to running a standard 50:1 mix.
Saber is engineered to run at a leaner mix. So I'm kind of wasting its' potential not wanting to run my saw leaner than 50:1.
I'll probably end up buying my oil directly from AMSOIL at some point. They offer deals for buying directly from them and you can get it in sizes a store normally doesn't sell. :)
Would be interesting to hear your take on Motul 710!
The Schaeffer's history is a heckuva pioneer story.... And you can take a tour in St. Louis at the factory if you've a mind to.
My Husky HP oil states JASO FB/ISO EGB Rotax 353 Snowmobile test… Run at 40:1 or so in a Husky 460 saw and Mitsubishi whipper snipper.
Usually 98octane, not ethanol ever.
I am very happy using Amsoil dominator in my 2 stroke dirt bike. Amsoil is a polyalphaolefin oil. Maybe saber is better for smaller engines than dominator.
with amsoil saber saying they can go to 100:1 since there base oil is different then the rest where others need 50:1 to meet the same amount. I assume running saber at 50:1 is more then enough oil as that's theoretically 25:1 as a conventional oil.
Omni Specialty (Shreveport, LA) blends Tru Fuel, Red Armor, Stihl Orange and Ultra.
Thank you
Sawing for over 20 years. I am not a professional. Started on Huskys stuff back before 2000. Ran it mostly through 2014 with no issues noticed. Began to dabble with Husky canned fuel and Red Armor mix. I have run about a dozen gallons of Makita's synthetic mix lately in combination with canned fuel, and Red Armor mix. No bad carbon issues and haven't lost a crank bearing yet. I maintain 8 miles of trials and several lots on 200 acres of eastern hardwoods. 10-12 cord of firewood per year, typically. Gasoline freshness has as much to do with carbon as the oil, according to my weed eater. 50:1 always.
Hi Richard! Nice vid,y just purchased a brand new 201TC and a 261 and they sold me there oil for the suppose warranty for the brake in should i run VP 40:1 Looking for advice i spend a good chunk of money on these here in Québec Thanks in advance
Husky XP plus for 550xp saw. The pre mixed fuel is awesome
Lucas Semi-synthetic is FD approved and about $10 a quart which is a pretty good deal. Thank you for doing this.
that is what i run as well easy to find and get.
Me Too Never Had an Issue With Lucas Semi Synthetic 😀😊
Sounds like something to keep in mind regarding, say, a small generator that might burn a few *gallons* at a time.
(In contrast, compared to an engine which might run three *quarts* a year at the outside. This too would be for a generator - a 60 volt DC generator, one light enough to put on or in a bicycle trailer.)
I just started using Lucas too, it runs well fit me.
I've been running stihl ultra for the last 20yrs....so far so good...knock on wood(no pun intended)I also put 1oz sea foam per gallon mix all the time. How do you feel about sea foam? Thx for your content.
Seafoam does a great job keeping the carbon from building up.
The 2 smoke oil I should use is my supply of Mobil MX2T. Still great after all these years.
I'm using mine. I've got 4 or 5 quarts and that'll last me years. An EXCELLENT oil.
I've been using stihl ultra for years and have not had a single failure and have never even had change a carburetor
I watched a video awhile back on Sthil ultra 1 gallon shot bottles for 50:1. When dumped in a measuring cup it was more than 2.6 ounces for 50:1. Maybe they add extra for people measuring their gas from the pump for a safety net. I've been running the Sthil Ultra for quite some time now with no problem, but I feel like it does better when keeping the engine rpm's higher. Seems like it will foul up an arrestor screen quick if your not. Think I'm gonna give the Echo Red Armor a try at 40:1 and see how it does.
Just run a little seafoam every now and then with the red armor, does well but gets everything kinda sticky making for a little harder cold start
Curious on your thoughts for Redline two stroke, been using for many years and works very well. Switched from Ultra. Always used VP non-ethanol fuels. The Redline two stroke is recommended by many in the small engine arena ( small model airplanes type two strokes) as those require very clean burning oils and fuels, they claim nothing they tried works as well.
Thanks for all your time an effort...Stay Well
The Redline all sport oil is FC rated and the Racing oil is a step up. I couldn't find a JASO rating for it, but it sounds like an excellent product with a lot of testing behind it.
Good breakdown of the oils👍🏻 for fuel, none of my small engine equipment has seen ethanol blended gas in the last 10 years. Mowers, generators and most all my 4 cycle equipment gets non ethanol pump gas when in season, 100ll avgas for storage or low/sporadic use. 2 cycle equipment gets the same non e IF I'm going to be using a LOT of fuel for a job or project. Otherwise I use 100ll, sunoco 260gtx or canned 4 cycle fuel mixed with oil and rarely ever use a piece of 2t equipment without a corresponding adjustment screwdriver in my pocket.
For those who can get Avgas, that's about the best fuel for storage and sparce use. Everyday use too (if you can afford it). I should have mentioned it. Thanks Aaron!
@@richardflagg3084 love everything about avgas except the very minimal amount of lead! And would advise caution if mixing castor based oils in it due to its low specific gravity of around 0.71 and the potential for separation. I've see castor 927 fall out of suspension as warm as 50 degrees F in it! Hence why I'm currently using sunoco 260gtx. With a specific gravity of 0.76 I've seen no separation in a sample kept at -5 degrees F for a week.
@@aaronpowell4885 Good info rite there Sir! Thanks
@@aaronpowell4885
I've read that Low lead Av gas has more lead than any banned automotive leaded gas. Not sure if that's true but what I read.
@@MrJeepfreak1972 12 years ago, 100ll had around 2 grams lead per gallon. I've heard that level has been slowly dropping since then but have no idea if that's true. Leaded gas of the late 70's had around 1 gram of lead per gallon so yes, roughly double.
George Braly of GAMI has come up with an unleaded drop in replacement called G100ul that is gaining approvals! Hopefully it'll be widely available within a couple years!
As for "Canned" fuel, I got a can of TRUFUEL and my backpack blower wouldn't run well enough to work properly and it was hard to start. My string trimmer wouldn't work as well either. I tried re-tuning the carb and that didn't help. I went back to ethanal free. and all was well again. I didn't try it in any of my saws after finding out how bad it worked.
I use Lucas Land and Sea at 32:1 in my small engine power equipment.
Update I stopped! Lol. Carbon in everything!
I live in the Seattle area and I have nothing but ethanol fuel. I found out a little trick with that I did a test over two years. I had to 1 gallon cans and mixed steel oil with it left it in one pan for over two years and it ran flawlessly now I’ll tell you what I did I capped off all the air from the tank I didn’t seal the tank. I just capped off the free air so I closed the vent. They close the fill tube that you fill it through at the gas station and I closed the pourspout. I did not seal the pourspout the can could still vent if it needed to, but I closed off the free air that fuel at two years older and it’s good as fresh fuel so there’s a way to handle the fuel.
There are places to find ethanol free. My favorite is the Coop Market in downtown Snohomish. It's worth the trip.
In small 2 strokes that normally get run at fairly high rpm , the worst that can happen is eventually the spark arester gets plugged, easy fix.
For bigger 2 strokes like 250cc and up motorcycle s with a power valve , its nice to not have as much carbon on the power valve and less smoke at lower rpm. I tend to use lower flash point oil like motool 700 in my trail ridden dirt bikes and a little higher flash point like Maxima super m in my smaller harder run motors . But it all works and until you really jack up compression and run hard for a long time and or run exotic fuels than there are some legitimate needs for different oils
i use red line 2-stroke synthetic. seems to be ok. i prefer 40:1 for chainsaws but to each their own.
I like the way you think.
Great video! What are your thoughts about using 100LL in 2-stroke equipment? I read that it doesn't leave varnish behind if/when it evaporates and also contains no alcohol. Thanks.
Well given that lead poisoning is a real concern, especially handheld power equipment, and FBO’s are cracking down on selling to the public for non-airplane use, it’s pretty damn stupid.
Just did some quick googling and compared the technical data sheets from schaeffers and amsoil comparing the tc-w3 to saber and the data shows that saber is a thicker oil and has a higher flash point.
saber at 40C = 107.4
tc-w3 at 40C = 29-39
saber at 100C = 14
tc-w3 at 100C = 5.5-7.5
saber flashpoint ASTM D92 = 356F
tc-w3 flashpoint ASTM D92 = 219F
schaeffers 2 stroke oil has similar specs to tc-w3
These specs to me would indicate that saber would be the better oil since its thicker and holds up to heat better? This might be one of the reasons why treemonkey runs schaeffers at 32:1. It would help makeup that difference in viscosity and increase the protection.
I also just thought that saber is 2x thicker then schaeffers and if schaeffers runs fine at 5-7 and saber is at 14 then if you thin the oil down to that 100:1 your closer to that 5-7 range. Maybe that's the magic number for 2 strokes to live happy??? Now I have no clue what I'm talking about but It was just a dumb thought. But with treemokey juicing up his mix to 32:1 that would skew the results more towards sabers favor of adding more oil for greater protection so maybe the 5-7 range isnt enough???? The only true way to know would be 2 identical engines used in the same conditions running their own mixes.
Thanks for adding all the info. I did a handful of low tech tests with these. Saber has one of the best detergent packages on the market. At 40:1 in some semi long term tests it still burns very clean. Both of these oils are excellent oils to use.
Richard, I emailed Stihl to ask about the JASO rating of the standard HP orange bottle oil. They said it meets the FB rating.
The worst oil is no oil. I’m sure all of them work ok, some better than others.
I read an article that said that TC-W3 was the highest rated two Stroke Oil, then found out later that it's just a bio-degradable sped for outboard motors.. where the exhaust has Lake Water run through it .
I have used valvoline or amalie 2 stroke oil for years and even used 40 weight engine oil mixed at 20:1 for all my saws and have never had an engine wear out or blow up in 25 years and I cut a lot of firewood and brush too. more oil is the key to long engine life. I know a guy that always mixed his gas at 50:1 with stihl brand oil and he burned his engine up in 6 months of hard use getting out logs
I ran and am still running a Stihl 261 for the last 10 years on stihl oil mixed 50:1. Ran it hard and dull many times because I was too lazy to sharpen the chain towards the end of the day. Even ran it more lean than it should have been many times. The saw never gave me one issue and the piston and cylinder look brand new. Run the same fuel in a 4mix trimmer for the last 10 years for hundreds and hundreds of hours with zero issues. I guess when they give out in another 10 years of hard use, I can join the club and blame Stihl oil.
Maybe you can use just pure oil without gasoline. It will last forever. It is call hand tools. Get real. Smoke is not a good thing
why dont you use straight gasoline in your saws then you wont have any bad smoke at all.
you want to make a stupid comment. here is one for you@@mracer8
Whats your thoughts on Opti-2 oil ? They rate it at 100-1 i believe. That seems awfully lean . What ratio would you mix one that rated 100 to 1
I'm using Castrol POWER1 RACING 2T for many years, my equipment runs flawlessly, no smoke, clean sparkplugs, great compression, great throttle response... Strongly recommended for mixing 2%. I won't experiment with oils. I found perfect one!
2% means 50:1?
@@margelatutrandafirulgalben3156 Yes!!
Logic.. 50x2=100...
@@margelatutrandafirulgalben3156 For 5L of mixed fuel you need 4,9L of gasoline and 100mL of oil.
For 10L of mixed fuel you need 9,8L of gasoline and 200mL of oil.
One sidenote that almost nobody knows is:
For Stihl engines you need at least 89 R+M/2 ( American rating Ron + Mon devided by 2) which would be 93 rating by RON.
So in North America don't use 87 for mixing. In Europe we don't have that low ratings. Our lowest is RON 95 which would be 91 in USA and we have 98 which is 93 by American and we have 100 which would be 95 un USA but there is no gasoline there over 93...
I would like to see how Lucas semi synthetic does.
Just switched to 40:1 with XP+. No complaints so far.
I did some google digging and the store brand Powercare 2 cycle oil sold at Home Depot is made by Omni Specialty Packaging out of Shreveport, LA. Also, further digging, shows that Stihl HP oil safety data sheet shows it IS ALSO MADE AT THE SAME EXACT Omni Specialty Packaging facility.
You're right Omni blends a lot of oil for different companies. I'd have to speculate most of those recipes are proprietary blends and the off brands can't have the same recipe as those that have paid for the JASO or API certifications. Just something to think about.
When you say going 40 to 1 wont cause an issue do you account for having more oil and making the actual Fuel to Air ratio leaner. I don't know how much leaner it can end up being but I've seen in motorcycle two stroke oil discussions that it could be an issue ?
I have been using Alco no smoke, and hi-test ethanol free gas in all my 2 stroke. Now they don't make alco anymore. Just replaced a plug, fuel filter, and air filter on ms 170 stihl, 15 years old. Not bad huh.
Good job excellent video! I’m running Saber 40:1 and happy. I also have dominator, castor 927, stihl hp ultra and some minerals all of which are taking a back seat for now. Ether the smell gives me a headache (minerals) or they run dirty in my equipment and the way I use them (dominator, 927, ultra)
About to finish my first 5gal of about ~40:1 saber. I was running ~65:1. both run great. the ~40:1 sends a decent amount of oil out the exhaust. ZERO hard carbon but im going to do 50-55:1 on my next 5 gal jug and see how it does. 40:1 would probably be great on a milling saw there is CERTAINLY excess oil in the system.
@@mattfleming86hey, yeah I actually have moved to 65:1 which is half way between 50:1 and 80:1.
Who knows, I may change to 80:1 or 50:1 at some point haha.
How does the Lucas and Valvoline stuff compare that you can buy in the quart jugs - if anyone has come into your shop running those? Only ask because I actually mix it in and use it with diesel fuel. Want lubricant, but something that will burn clean and not leave a lot of carbon behind. I ran Schaeffer's for years oil wise - good stuff, but can get stuff cheaper in a closer comparison for what I'm running.
I believe that FC 2T oil is low ash. Ash is an extreme, high heat lubricant, but it is a little "dirty." FD 2T oil is ashless. In an extreme duty situation (racing) FC may be better for protecting your race engine.
very good video
Do you think these startron fuel stabilizer actually takes the ethanol out of the gas like it says. Also I have been using the Sabre oil for years. How many ounces do you recommend to mix per gallon of gas. I use 2 ounces per gallon. Thanks for the great videos.
I’ve never seen the claim of removing the alcohol, but it’s supposed to stabilize and keep it fresh.
Anybody know if the rotary engine is safe to use with purely 2-stroke oil? I know some people mix it with the fuel, but I haven't heard of any instances of purely 2-stroke being used instead of synthetic. My thought was that synthetic isn't designed to burn, and as we all know the rotary engines love to burn oil, so if you're burning synthetic it's just going to gunk up the motor. I would assume as long as you're topping it off regularly and have the correct viscosity that then 2-stroke alone would be sufficient and potentially better overall.
I can mix a gallon of straight gas with a dab of sta-bil and it lasts for over a year until it’s used up.
Stabil is about 90% kerosene.
2:50 so the FD "exhaust system blocking" double means it blocks 2x as much or 2x as less? I use Sthil ultra on my 2 strokes and the carbon on the exhaust builds up consistently. Do you think I should switch to the Echo red armor?
Schaeffer’s proprietary additive Penetro is a game changer. Schaeffer’s is best.
Many folks let their gas cans get hot in the sun, so gas evaporates and the mix gets oil rich. Best to mix small batches. Keep gas cans in shaded or cool area and use fresh non-ethonol gas. If you start with more than 50:1 or 40:1 and mixture gets more oil rich after gas evaporates, that could become a cruddy problem, especially if idling the saw a lot or running at half throttle etc. I've seen a lot of people run a saw like driving a car for whatever reason. Instead, most of the time saws are supposed to be run full throttle in the cut under load.
OK so I’m new to the channel but all I gotta say is thanks a lot you got me all thinking about this oil thing. My question is stihl ultra flashpoint of a 428 and sabre has a flashpoint of 200 and something flashpoint a higher flashpoint design for a small engine like a chainsaw run very hot
Flash point is one piece of the puzzle and can be confusing. I think the reason Ultra has a higher flash point is it's higher ester oil content and minimum amount of additives to allow it to burn cleaner in a wide range of operating conditions. Hence the JASO FB rating.
The more I've read and learned, better viscosity at the higher temps will prevent engine wear. Pair that with a decent detergent package (JASO FC and FD) and you've got a winner.