Is Cheaper Oil Better? 2 Stroke Oils put to the test and the results might SHOCK you!
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- Опубликовано: 6 май 2023
- Today we test the "myth" that you should never run marine 2 stroke oil in your air cooled 2 Stroke engine.
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My name is Bre. I took two years of small engine repair at the local college. When I left school, I fell into a wonderful job at a local small engine shop where I worked the counter for a couple years. In 2010 my husband and I opened up our own small engine shop in central Arkansas where I am able to work alongside my family and best friends. We see over 2,000 pieces of small engine equipment every year, and answer 1,000's of small engine questions. We specialize in brands such as Briggs and Stratton, Kohler, Echo and Shindaiwa, but work everyday on MANY other brands like Stihl, Husqvarna, Honda, Craftsman, Remington, Red Max, Troy Bilt, Scag, Bad Boy, Hustler, World Lawn, Poulan, Mantis, Etc.. Hopefully, my experience I share, will save you Time, Money and Frustration in the future!
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Mottul 710 ok oil for cheinsaw
Hi Bri, I was an automatic transmission engineer that designed and developed automatics for 35 years. I'm also a small engine mechanic hobbiest that have repaired over 10,000 small engines. Anyway, when I worked at Chrysler I got involved with new ATF programs for our transmissions and had several meetings with our oil additive suppliers. Anyway we talked extensively about 2 cycle oil additive packages just for my own interest. They told me that the air cooled oils contains ash in it and it's not used in marine applications due to fouling issues of the plug at idle since many boaters troll with their outboard motors. Ash content is very durable for high speed and high temp 2 stroke applications especially when mixing at 50:1. They told me marine oils are fine for air cooled motors if you just run it richer at like 32:1 or 40:1. I always use marine oil at 32:1 for my chainsaws and blowers and have never had a problem. The additive suppliers also said that any TCW3 is fine because they have to pass the same tests as any other oil which is the 70 hp Evinrude motor run for 100 hours at 4000 rpms mixed at 100:1. Therefore I buy the cheap Supertech 2 cycle oil from Walmart. The only difference is the smell may be a little different however performance is the same. So the moral of the story is you are correct. If spending big dollars for high tech oil is your thing, then do it. However if you run marine 2 cycle oil just run it a little richer for your air cooled 2 strokes. BTW I run my outboard at 40:1.
Thank you for sharing this insight
Agreed, thank you!
How do you convert from a 50:1 mixture to a 40:1 mixture per gallon of gas if I want to buy the Marine oil by the gallon. How many ounces of marine 2 cycle oil to one gallon of gas to make it 40 :1 Thanks
@@ToyotaTacoma-js6on All you need to remember is that a gallon is 128 oz. For any mix, just divide by the ratio. (While that is not 100% true, it is as close as you need to be.)
Or, even a little rougher, but close enough: 2.6 oz ~ 50:1; 3oz ~ 40:1; 4oz ~ 32:1; 5oz ~ 25:1
Thanks for your help
Per Google's Gemini: Differences between Marine and Garden Equipment 2-Cycle Oils:
1. Certification and Additives:
The primary difference lies in certification. Marine 2-cycle oils typically meet the NMMA TC-W3 standard, formulated for water-cooled outboard motors operating in saltwater environments. This standard emphasizes:
Anti-corrosion additives: To resist saltwater's corrosive effects on engine components.
Low ash formulation: To minimize spark plug fouling and exhaust port deposits in water-cooled engines that often operate for extended periods at both low and high RPMs.
Garden equipment oils, often JASO FD certified, prioritize:
High lubricity: To withstand the high temperatures and friction in air-cooled high RPM engines.
Detergent and dispersant additives: To control combustion chamber deposits including from ash. (Ash is the dry solids produced by the combustion process.)
2. Using Marine Oil in Portable Equipment:
While technically possible, using marine oil in air-cooled equipment is generally not recommended. The low ash content, crucial for marine engines when running at slow speeds, may not provide sufficient lubrication for high-friction, high-temperature garden equipment. Oils for air-cooled motors contain additives that purposely produce a controlled amount of ash of a type that improves lubricity after all the wet oil has burned off. Not having this dry lubricant can increase wear and tear, leading to premature engine failure.
3. Combustion Chamber Deposits and Temperature:
Prolonged operation at high temperatures can accelerate deposit formation. The key lies in maintaining proper operating temperature. Both marine and garden equipment oils are formulated to control deposits WITHIN THEIR RESPECTIVE OPERATING TEMPERATURE RANGES.
4. High Ash and Lubricity:
High ash content can improve lubricity to an extent. However, excessive ash can:
Increase spark plug fouling, leading to ignition problems.
Contribute to exhaust port blockage, reducing engine performance.
Therefore, modern oils prioritize balanced formulations that offer adequate lubrication without sacrificing other performance aspects.
5. Synthetic Oils and Universal Applicability:
Synthetic oils generally offer several advantages, including:
Improved high-temperature performance compared to conventional mineral oils.
Enhanced resistance to wear and tear.
Reduced deposit formation.
While some universal synthetic oils claim suitability for both marine and air-cooled applications, it's crucial to consult your equipment manufacturer's recommendations. Not all universal oils may meet the specific needs of marine or garden equipment.
Conclusion:
While both marine and garden equipment use 2-cycle oils, their specific formulations cater to the unique operating environments of each application. Using the appropriate oil ensures optimal performance, longevity, and protection for your machinery.
I enjoyed the oil video immensely. Many years ago in the mid sixties I was an engineer working for Kawasaki and later for Yamaha. The oil question was a frequent topic of conversation between all of us in the R&D departments. Back then there were few true 2 stroke oils that were specifically designed for air cooled racing engines. If you were racing a very high performance 2 stroke engine Castor oils held up quite well compared to the average 4 stroke oils that most people would use. Castor oil worked exceptionally well except that the piston and rings were very fouled with carbon deposits. 4 stroke oils were marginal at best. They had to be run at 20 to 1 ratio so they smoked a lot and didn’t produce the best results. With the development of specialized 2 stroke racing oils things became much better for the racing engines. The street legal bikes had a system of oil injection that worked fairly well and it had some amount of adjustment to get a better blend. It wasn’t until Torco developed its 2 stroke injection oil called Power Stroke that the automated injection system became more effective. It was a 40 to 1 ratio for normal riding and 32 to 1 for racing purposes. It was definitely a game changer in engine reliability and very low carbon deposits. For us racers we were in heaven until various other manufacturers developed higher performance oils that we gladly accepted and put to use.
Today I use the Stihl little bottles because they are convenient and if I buy a new piece of equipment from Stihl and a 6 pack of their oil they automatically double my warranty. I have never needed the additional warranty but it feels better to have it.
I applaud your side by side testing because you have proven a fairly well known option of engineers that oils that have a manufacturer approval rating are all going to do a pretty good job if used properly.
A little aside is that I use full synthetic oils in all of my road vehicles because of the greater heat protection. It is quite possible that I will never need the extra protection but I am in my 70’s now and I don’t want to do any maintenance on any of my equipment unless absolutely necessary.
I do love your style of sharing your gained knowledge in a useful and informative way. Bravo.
Best Regards Al Hartley
Message to Chickanic: Thank you so much for this video. Not only have you shown there doesn't seem to be difference between the oils, but you created a huge discussion forum on the subject. Also a thanks to all who have posted their experiences and successes. It's a real rabbit hole of information. This is what RUclips should be about.
Great video! My particular experience: At one time, I was an avid snowmobile rider. Then, my back went bad, and after I sold the sleds and trailer, I had several gallons of leftover Polaris Blue snowmobile oil, from the mid-late 90's. It's mostly been an expedient, since I had so much of it, but I've been using this in all of my two strokes, some as old as 1967, no problems so far. For all my 4 strokes including cars and lawn and garden stuff I use any pure synthetic 5w/30 - 10w/30 oil made by Warren Oil Co, or Warren Distributing. Again, no problems with it so far.
Same here. I am just finishing up the last of my snowmobile oil. It's done really well in my chainsaws. Cut my first tandem load of firewood and no issues whatsoever.
Mad Respect from Oshawa Canada. We just got all our snowplows & equipment put to bed for the summer.
Now because we put our grass equipment to bed the correct way, EVERY one of them started on the 1st pull.
Thanks for all the advice & direction you've given us all over the years. I'm just a back yard mechanic (mechanically inclined) & I keep equpiment running for 2 landscape companies. Thx to Chick, these guys think I'm a miracle worker!
😊
I like your honesty! In the old days our superwiz 66's and 55's witch was a all out commercial chainsaw at the time never gave any lubrication issues. And the instructions said to mix sae 30 weight motor oil with the gas to make your mix. It's all about emissions today and that's the reason we have to use this smokeless oil. I like this lady's out and out honesty.
great breakdown. enjoy watching these types of side by side comparisons. keep em coming
Thanks for all of your hard work that benefits us all. This video was very memorable indeed.
Great content. I've raced 2 strokes for years, 2 stroke street bikes in the 80's, jet skis also and have tried them all. I also use chainsaws etc for work. The VP 94 premix I like. I also use left over 110 race gas with MX oil. Oakland Rentals uses Amsoil on their tools and thinks it's the best. It seems to me that any high quality oil works fine just don't store Ethanol fuel in whatever you run.
Thanks for this video! I've been waiting all winter for a pull start video with a tank top!
Hey!, Your video's are totaly top notch! been watching you for a little while now and truly feel confident with all of your info. A very sincere thank you!!!!!
I just wanted to say thanks for your videos. I'm a shade tree mechanic (journeyman autobody mechanic) and have worked on my own stuff for years. By no means an automotive expert but am pretty good at the basics. I like the way you present your topics and they are very helpful. I think the best knowledge I have gained is on ethanol in fuel. I didn't realize how it could affect so many of my tools and toys. I've used stabilizer for years and have run everything dry before end of season. But I would still use the gas from last year the next season. Also if gas was at a good price over the winter season, I would stock up (with stabilizer added) for the next season. Not going to do that anymore. Will only purchase what I can use within the appropriate timeframe. Cheaper price gas can cost me more in repairs later.
Also kudos to you for being an example to woman everywhere. For years I have said the trades needed more women. I hope you can inspire more young women to get into any trade. Keep up the great work and videos.
I have my own large storage tank. I order 93 ethanol free. It's a nickle or dime more than ethanol tainted fuel.
Stabile really has no effect. Fuel still goes bad pretty quick. Here in desert heat, the color of the fuel changes first, an a month it turns orange.
The 93 ethanol free lasts 2 years.
A guy here on RUclips has done extensive testing. He's called project farm and is easily one of the best.
Yea she is a great instructor
i have had another guy wranglerstar on youtube says to buy non ethanol fuel as well not just for storage but its better@@TheBandit7613
Hey im glad I found this video. I own a landscaping business and 1 season in a pinch used 2 cycle marine oil. Followed the 50:1 mix instructions and 4 seasons later still use it in all my echo trimmers and back packs with out any issue. The first season I used the marine 2 cycle I had sthil trimmers and packs and haven't yet moved to echo. Disclaimer the sthil equipment was already 7 seasons deep and on their way out. Me and my crews absolutely beat the shit outta the echos due to number of accounts we have but they seem to me to be more durable and the echos were brand new when I started using marine 2 cycle and all echo equipment run with out fail with obvious normal maintenance weekly. Marine is cheaper and has yet to be a bad decision using it all my 2 cycle equipment
Echo is more durable. My buddy used to run a huge landscaping company with dozens of crews. They switched everything from Stihl to Echo and saw a significant decrease in issues.
I just recently found your channel
Watched the episode on the mantis tiller i was about to pitch mine it hadn't run in 10+ years
Thanks to you it runs like new
Thanks again
Love your channel
I have an st-160a Homelite I bought in 1985. It has always had boat 2 stroke oil and runs as well now as it did new. All my 2 stroke implements use boat oil as I have a boat and have never burnt one up. Boat is an 86 Winner with XP150 Evinrude also runs great. Been using Penzoil TCW3 for a number of years using standard oil /fuel mixture ratio. Also liked the video on ECHO trimmer head bought 3 with adapter kits great upgrade.
I worked in the bush my whole life and owned every make of saws .I owned my own logging company for years .I started in the logging industry we I was 18 and bucked 100 cords of 8 foot of poplar wood a day for years ,2 guys behind a grapple 528 cat skidder. Now I am 57 and still cut fire wood every day. I have even used motor oil as mix oil at times but shaking the jug before you use it .I learned this from a guy that had an allergy from the 2 stroke smoke, so he had to use motor oil and he cut lots of wood and no problems.in the old days my dad would take the inside out of the muffler for more power and remove every brake it had .he worked in the logging industry for 65 years .
Old timers used to run a mix of straight 30 weight oil mixed in their gas, like 30:1, and use the same on in the bar oiler in old saws, with no problem. I’m talking up until the 80s.
seagul outboards specify 30/40 motor oil for 2 stroke , smells worse and chokes more than 2 stroke oil in my opinion
Tell him to run Klotz Suoer techniplate at 32 or 40:1. Smells like the racetrack.
@@GT-mn3bx Klotz works well for race use but gums everything up in non-race applications.
Before they came out with dedicated two stroke oil that's what it called for
Engine oil+gas for premix
Great content! We need to see long term, multi-gallon and multi season oil use in order to determine effectiveness of the different oils. They will all perform satisfactorily during short duration usage.
I was thinking the same,a longer test time. Say maybe a week of 50 hours of work,or a month of 200 or more hours of cutting trees, small limbs to see what they look like then.
I use marine oil in my 1983 lawnboy and use the same mixture in my 1991 murrey snow thrower and also my p3314 plan chainsaw. All of these items an antique and still running with good compression. Great videos.
18:57 great test I have ran two-stroke Marina oil on my Husqvarna for over a year and I’ve never had trouble so it’s good to see that your research is agreeing with my decision to use it.
Happened by fluke I ran out one weekend and all I could purchase was cheaply priced shell marina oil, cheers
Enjoy your videos. I have learned more to fix my small engines and saving money with your videos.
My dad has been a small engine mechanic all his life. From chainsaws, lawnmowers, snowmobiles, atv's, to outboard motors, he's worked on it all. Anyway, when I was a kid the marina he worked at gave him a great deal on all parts and accessories. Well he would always buy me their cheaper brand 2 stroke outboard engine oil for my old snowmobile (250cc single cylinder Ski-doo Elan), and I ran gallons of that stuff through my machine and put on millions of miles and never had a problem with the engine.
Used Pennzoil marine in my Toro trimmer for years. Never thought about there would be different 2 cycle oil. Never caused a problem that I know of.
I've been using 2 cycle outboard oil for decades. I didn't know it was frowned upon. I'm always learning !! Great experiment.
Bre, like your channel. I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about small engine and yet I still learn a lot from your videos. I rarely comment but feel the need to do so on this occasion. Some outboard oils are meant for pre-mix applications and other are meant for direct injection in 2 cycle engines and not premixed with gasoline. The direct injection type does not mix well with gasoline and if used in a premix application will destroy the engine. Probably something to look into for your self to better understand. Thanks for the good content.
The difference is liquid cooled versus air cooled. Air cooled engines run at a wider temperature range. For motocross motorcycles the oils were formulated different when liquid cooling became common. I have had good results using outboard boat oil in all of my aircooled equipment. For decades.
Motul is my go to brand; cycles, boats, chainsaws....never had any problem.
@@tdgdbs1 I use Motul 800 2T Off Road but I'm willing to try marine 2-stroke oil next for garden equipment.
Just wanted to say thank you for giving people the many different options they have.
I’m not a guru, but I did use quicksilver marine 2-stroke in my shindaiwa line trimmer form 1997 until 2022. The poor thing was completely worn out and falling apart except the engine still ran great! I have been a lawn care professional for many years now and I use it in all of my 2-stroke equipment. I use it at 50:1 for everything and have never had an engine failure. It just works great for me here in north Alabama. Like you, though, I keep looking for a definitive explanation about the differences in air cooled versus marine 2-stroke oil. I can’t argue with my personal experience however, so I’ll likely keep using it. Great video! I’m subscribing right now!
I have been using Motomix from Stihl for about twenty years. The equipment runs cleaner and it doesn't gum up when sitting for an extended period. It also has a shelf-life of about five years.
Motomix only has a 2 year self life
I own a lawn business with 185 yards and I switched from the little bottles 10 years ago to quart bottles of Lucas 2 cycle oil and have never had any problems. Just a lot more money in my pocket from not buying the over priced little bottles. Thanks for the videos!!
I love the lucas semi synthetic at 40:1 I have no issues doing lawn and tree service full time
🏁Lucas 🏁
@@markhatcher4325 that very cheap oil I wouldn't put it in a moped it not going last long take from me go with sthil in orange bottle 2-stroke oil bar oil
@@14firewooddirtysouth 🏁🇺🇸Lucas🇺🇸🏁
Folks, Tractor Supply carries Lucas.
I agree with you! Got to love a knowledgeable woman!
I used my 29 year (1994) grass/brush trimmer for the first time this year. It started right up with no issues. I did a good amount of trimming, & it ran perfectly! I must admit the Echo Speed Feed head is awesome! Been using one for a couple years now, because of this channel. I currently have 4 chainsaws (two were given to me from my dad). They are 1995, 2000, 2004, & 2005 models. I never replaced a 2-stroke piece of equipment. I own 72 acres of woods & cut firewood. My stuff gets used. Two of the above five items require a 40:1 mix. I mix one gallon of non-ethanol gas at a time to keep it fresh for pretty much everything. I find a 40:1 mix works well for everything I own (McCulloch, Poulan, Husqvarana, & Jonsered). I am not loyal to any brand. For years, I just used Poulan 2-stroke oil, but I buy whatever seems affordable. I would never buy those 2.6 ounce/50:1 oil containers. I would rather use a cheaper 2-stroke oil at a 40:1 ratio than an expensive oil at 50:1 ratio. A little extra oil is better in my opinion! If I ever have something fail, I may change my mind. I see no need to buy/use Marine oil when other affordable options exist. Marine engines tend to run cooler (water cooled), & I feel the differences in the oil may be justified.
I think the only difference is the ash content. Marine oil doesn’t have ash in it, so if you are 40:1 mix marine at 32:1. But Im gonna run a synthetic in mine. Im a nut with my oil. The extra cost in my mind is worth it
It would probably take some super scientific long-term testing to really tell the difference, if any. Most real-world users would probably be okay either way. I'd say air filter condition can have as much or more effect on cylinder scoring. Your mileage may vary.
In the old days we mixed 30 wt motor oil to whatever the ration was the the OEM recommended. It did not matter if it was air-cooled or water cooled.
Those engines didn't turn 13,000 RPM's
I'm an old guy too, and remember a Dirt Bike Magazine article from the 70's saying 'in a pinch' you could just pre-mix any automotive oil...but like Jason pointed out, these machines didn't have the proformance of modern 2 strokes.
@@dougirvin2413 I'm a old guy too LOL
I am an old guy too. As I remember it, 30-weight non-detergent oil was actually the recommended oil to use. They later came out with the special 2-cycle oil. As I said I am old so my memory could be wrong.
@Jason Busch you are correct sir.
Great video! I've wondered this myself but just haven't tried it. Thanks
Good vid, and informative Chickanic ! Really enjoy your vids !!!
Way back in the day, I ran Lawnboys and used outboard oil with great results. With that being said, when I moved up to using commercial Echo equipment, I continued to use outboard oil. After a few seasons, it destroyed my Echo back pack blower. (yes, it was always mixed at the proper ratio) Since then I used the old green Echo oil. Then I moved up to the Red Armor. I have used Red armor in many 2 cycle equipment with excellent results. My equipment have a lot of hours on them and still run like new. A long term study is truly the only way to make a final evaluation.
Evinrude outboard OMC made lawn Boys. OMC Sadly gone now
Echo owners manual states the warranty is void if you use anything other than an "FD" rated 2-cycle oil. It does NOT need to be Echo branded, but it must be FD rated. I like Red Armor too, I use it in my Suzuki 2-cycle powered Toro Recycler, my Toro 3650 R-Tek 2-cycle snowblower, and my Echo equipment.
@@WisconsinEricI used to have a 2 cycle toro commercial mower. I loved that mower. I had it for over 20 years.
@@WisconsinEric The Toro R-Tek, I fix those for customers and use my Red Armor when testing them. Less smoke than outboard and they run great!!!
@@frankparsley1913 My Suzuki 2-cycle Toro is actually a consumer model. It is a 1991, the very first year of Toro's Recycler. It has a cast aluminum deck with plastic "kickers", but they did not begin to call them a "Super Recycler" until 1993. Still starts from cold with a half-pull of the rope, and the 32yr old Japanese-made Suzuki still runs like new.
I have a Poulan 220 chainsaw that I’ve had for 21 years. I had to replace fuel lines, clutch, bar, spark plug, and glue the bolts that hold the bar tight, but it still starts up easily and runs great.
I’ve used various brands of 2 cycle oil over the years. I really don’t think it matters all that much what brand as long as there is actually some oil mixed in the fuel.
I’ll make bet that you use 40:1 !
Years ago,,i and my dad used the small 020 Stihl chainsaws.Tuff as nails.We cut firewood ,logs...everything.Wew bored the heck out of them,and installed a 16" bar,,,.... An old guy that repaired saws told my Dad that marine out board oil was the best in a chainsaw, they worked better and didnt smoke,and also burned cleaner very little carbon.. So,we used it and never had a problem with it...ran those little saws for years.Now everyone is saying NO to marine oil mix.I would not be afraid to use it again,actually after watching you Vid ....im going to mix outboard,and chainsaw mix together,,for i made a mistake a month ago and bought a liter of outboard mix....im gonna start using it.Thanks for your videos,,,very imformative. (i tinker with chainsaw and small engine repairs for myself and friends)...im still learning ,and you do a great job!!!
I mowed lawns as a kid with a LawnBoy 2 cycle mower. When I ran out of 2 cycle oil, I just used 10-40 motor oil. Worked fine and the LawnBoy soldiered on for decades.
Great videos and interesting content. The main difference between marine two stroke oil and yard equipment oil is that marine oil is biodegradeable and less polluting for use in more sensitive areas, marine oil is top grade and meant for engines up to 300 hp so it will more than work in a small engine and it is sold in larger amounts to fill up the oil tanks in modern oil injected outboards, I have a tiny Honda generator that uses 100/1mix and it calls for marine two stroke and so I just use it in everything with no issues.
Not all. Only the ones that use vegetable oils. The name usually starts with Bio something..And I'm not really happy with the results or test methods. Only >80 biodegradable in the specific test parameters. So temp, weather, soil, amounts, on ground, animal life, etc. I think it's just a selling point. My opinion as a mechanic
Your awesome. Thanks for all your videos your a big help!
As a Grand Master Marine Tech for 48 years: Marine oil (TCWIII--- thermostatically controlled water cooled) has a lower flash point to burn cleanly in an outboard. High flash point oils will slowly gum up over extended periods, such as trolling for hours on end, because your engine won't run hot enough to burn them cleanly. If you're a go faster that runs wot all the time it won't make a difference. You don't idle your chain saw for three hours like you would an outboard.
I've been using marine 2 Stroke in my strimmers and hedge cutters for years and they love it.
What type/brand oil ? Ratio ? Fuel type/grade ?
Thank you and well done. For years I have used Amzoil Sabre 100:1 on boats, mowers, motorcycles, weedeaters(1 ounce per gallon ) paying around $47-$50. a gallon much less expensive per gallon ( 1ounce compared to 2.5 ounces per gallon) than premium priced oils with good results.Longevity of equipment is a good bonus.
I’m a firm proponent of Amsoil products. I sell a lot of their 100:1 outboard oil for the two stroke outboard customers (except the really old stuff with plain bearings). I’ve YET to have a complaint from my customers, or get a report that their engines are suffering by running a leaner oil mix. Their Sabre line of power equipment oil is a favorite amongst the lawn and garden folks. If they run everything at 80:1, they don’t have issues or failures.
100:1 is terrible for wear and long term life.. Satisfies the no smoke crowd though. We run a bank of 10 identical engines side by side and anything over 10,000 RPM will last longer at 32:1.
@@GT-mn3bx While this is true for stuff such as chainsaws, outboard motors generally never get over 5500 rpm. If they wind them up tighter than that, it's likely they'll scatter. The Amsoil Sabre is designed to run lean mixtures. I've yet to have any outdoor power equipment customers tell me it shortened the life on their equipment running it at 80:1. Did you do your testing with the Sabre, or any other synthetics?
I have wondered about that for years I love your topics that you choose thank you so much for sharing God bless you and yours
I have several older air cooled outboards. One is a Sears that was made by Tanaka. It is a 1.2 hp. The engine is from a trimmer. Very high rpm with a tiny propeller. All I use is TCW3 outboard oil. Oh, its be used for over 25 years. Thanks for the video.
I have an Echo SRM 2601 trimmer and an Echo TCM 2100 tiller. Both are over 20 years old. I've always used marine oil in both 32:1. I have rebuilt the carburators once on each of them, replaced several primer bulbs. Other than that they always start by the third pull and run great. I'm also a residential user with 3 acres of grass.
Grass forever.
Thank you for doing this.
I have a 30 year old Lawn Boy two cycle and run outboard oil in it and it still works fine. I also have a Poulin chain saw I run outboard oil in. It also works fine. I follow the Lawn Boy 1/32 ratio. I also have 3 outboards 2.5 (1992), 5 1997) and 20 (1981) they get the same oil as the mower and chain say. All work well. Based on my limited knowledge of oil it is the additive that make the oil work well. With my 454 oil type and weight make a difference as to oil consumption. If you send both your oils off for analysis you could compare the two types better. The oil manufacture might publish what they use for additives.
Reveal trade secrets ? NEVER !
Be sure to compare the API specifications in each container for comparison.
I am a 57 year auto tech and worked also in my uncle's small engine shop as well. I also taught 6 years in high schools (auto) and 28 years in a Community College (automotive service).
Really enjoy your videos!
Thank-you Bre!
Your experiment was very interesting. 👍
Of my 2 stroke equipment: I have a 42 year old Homelite chainsaw, a 30 year old Craftsman blower and a 25 year old Royobi string trimmer. All have had Walmart 2 stroke marine oil all their lives. Never had any problems. So, the cheap oil is fine for those pieces.
However, I also have late model ECHOs: 4910 CS, 2511CS and a 225 string trimmer. All bought
I've seen testing of Walmart oil. It worked fine. They even sent in samples for lab testing. There really isn't any bad oil left out there.
What Ratio and oil type ?
@@shannonwhitaker9630 I go by manufacturer’s instructions. My newer ECHOs use 50:1, My 30 year old Craftsman blower uses 40:1 and my 42 year old Homelite chainsaw uses 30:1.
Just wondering because Wal-Mart has carried and carries different lines of dedicated Marine oil as well as “Multi-use” Marine oil.
@@shannonwhitaker9630 From my experience and what I've read, you can use marine oil in a chainsaw or other non marine engine for a short period of time. There's a small risk of damaging the engine if you use it long term. I found an old quart of marine oil that my Dad had. used it with no issue. Went back to using regular 2 stroke oil. Here's a video with a very good layman's explanation: ruclips.net/video/AlmegbfUJpU/видео.html
Been running Amsoil synthetic 100 to 1 in all my chain saws, blowers and weed eaters for 40 years and have never had any issues. Also ran it in my in my Mercury 150 hp XR2 for years with no issues. 👍🤷🏻♂️
What ratio of oil per gallon do you mix and is the oil outboard oil?
@@buddylove4882 in all my chain saws, weed eaters and blowers I use the Amsoil Saber professional synthetic 2 stroke oil. 1.5 FL oz. makes 100 to 1 in a gallon of gas. I normally put a little over 9/10s of gas to one pack of oil. In my 150 hp XR2 i used the amsoil infector oil in it being it was oil injected. I got it in 2.5 gallon jugs. My new outboard motor is 4 cycle so I don’t have to worry about mixing the gas and oil. But the injector oil was designed for oil injected outboard engines. Hope this helps. The Saber works very well in 2 stroke dirt bikes also.
@@davidbaker1359 that^s a big 10-4. It just dawned on me though that that brand is highly regaurded and may very well be pricey.
@@buddylove4882 yes but I’ve fouled a plug or had any issues with over heating. I fished 25 tournaments a year with the XR2 and it still had the same plugs in it I bought it with. I fished with that boat for about 6 years like that. The same goes for all my other equipment, I’ve never changed a plug in any of them. I retired as a Aircraft mechanic after 42 years and synthetic oil is the only thing that will take the heat of a jet engine without breaking down under the heat. It cost more but you get a lot more out of it for sure.
@@davidbaker1359 oh you^re the man no doubt. Well i^m just of recently become a carburetor mechanical engineer(lol),if you will because I learned from the best.Chicanic and The Lawnmower Lady gave me my degree and with yor oil I can got over the top.
OMG ,YES YOU DO KNOW. ❤. LONG TIME SUBSCRIBER. ITS BEEN WONDERFUL TO SEE YOU GROW AND EXPERIENCE SUCCESS SO QUICKLY. ITS BECAUSE YOU’RE Smart and talented. ❤.
I love Valvoline Multi-Purpose 2 stroke oil. I buy the quart size for about $ 8.00. It does great.
Love the channel would suggest a second test mixed @100:1 and see how they hold up at half the recommended oil.
I raced boats a longtime, built our own engines. The engine ran 9200 rpm, we used over twice the normal oil ratio. Old school needle bearings required more oil at such high rpm
2.5 Bridgeport Mercury outboard racing 9000 rpm v6.
I did this also and Motocross racing RM250 ran 32:1 Belray.
@@MitzvosGolem1 we ran modified outboard hydros
@@MitzvosGolem1 if you ever run across Kevin Nichols, he's a good friend
@@independentthinker8930 offshore APBA 24ft superboat
every 2 cycle ANYTHING I've had apart has needle bearings for wrist pin and crank...
As usual your videos are awesome, and get right to the point, and cut right through manufacturer's claims and find out the real truth with no hidden BS.
Hello, I enjoy your videos. I wanted to say that my dad used to repair small engines and equipment when I was young. I'm now 63 so much has changed in the lubrication market. He would not use marine oil only because he was unsure how the viscosity of the marine oil would fair in an air-cooled engine. Boat motors run so much cooler since the cylinders are water jacketed as opposed to an air-cooled engine where the cylinders run much hotter. There is no engineering study's behind my father's thoughts. Just a normal concern... Keep up the good work.
I've been using Amsoil Saber Pro 2 cycle oil since I was introduce to it in 1989. I use the exact same mix for ALL my 2 cycle machines regardless of what each piece of equipment's owner's manual states. I own a Poulan Pro chains saw. Would I rather have a different brand, yep. It was the one I purchased because I knew nothing about them and I needed a saw Johnny on the spot, so here I am. Never had any issues other than other saw like an Echo, Stihl, or Husqvarna seem to have a more aggressive chain that cuts faster.
Most chainsaws off the shelf come with safety / anti kick back chains. Get a full chisel chain for your chainsaw. That will make it come to life, no matter what brand of chainsaw it is. The full chisel chain will have a yellow strip on the box it comes in, so you know it will be full chisel.
Back in my Motocross days a friend and I strictly ran Castrol 2 cycle oil in a Honda Elsinore and a CZ Mx. They both lasted longer than the Guy's who used Klotz , Bel Ray and the other high dollar Oils. I think if You dig deep You'll find that Castrol refines and Bottles all that high dollar stuff that Stihl , Husqvarna and Echo sells us.
I use the castrol 2t motorcycle 2 stroke oil , it's blue and I was taught that by watching Bucking Billy on you tube , ge showed on the old stihl bottles the name Castroil wax there and the showed that mix with the stihl mix and it looks the same and the bottle says it's OK to use and it's cheaper by the quart.
It's like motor oil walmart, atwoods, tractor supply, don't refine oil they all buy it from somewhere, just like stihl Harley, and everyone who makes money selling oil with thier name on the bottle.
You probably have been told before---I was an auto mechanic for 50 year career. One word of caution - fuel on bare skin- I have cronic lymphcitic leukemia, almost certainly from fuel exposure to bare skin & poorly venilated inhalation exposure to raw fuel. I am 72 years old & I very much enjoy your videos. Keep up the good work!!
Fascinating, entertaining, talented and easy on the eyes to boot. Liked & Subscribed!
My dear lady, you are so helpful in sharing your wealth of knowledge. You would be successful in many fields of industry, but I am so glad you chose to this field, because I, like many guys don’t have access to this info. I have a lawn tractor an old lawnboy mower, that i’ve had rebuilt twice, a string trimmer, a stihl chain saw, and blower, a honda mower.
I treat my equipment with care and you are helping me do that. thank you for show, Jon Welter
PS: My wife and I have been to Greers Ferry Lake and what a beautiful state. We’re both 82 years old.
It’s not the RPM difference, it’s the TEMPERATURE difference. OPE is air cooling but marine is water cooling by fresh cold water. THAT is what makes a difference and the need for a different additive package in your oil.
1
Eator came out with a two stroke air cooled boat motor like 40 years ago and I seen a boat down the road with one as a spare on his inboard outboard. I asked him it runs or its for show and said it still runs. He said his father bought it new over 40 year ago.. He said they only put about 10 hours a year for last 20 years. Before that is was his dads trolling motor for many years.. All they ever used in it was marine two stroke in it
There have been several boat engines that were air cooled and 2 cycle. So.... That statement isn't entirely true
that was gonna be my comment.
@@staind288 what part wasn't true? I didn't say they were the only makers. I just remember that one. The fact is that marine oil is not just made for liquid cooled motors and in fact it state on Catrol Marine oil that it can be used in almost any two stroke engines.. I never had a issue using marine two stroke oil in everything
Have a Stihl 041AV that I bought new in 1977 that I only ran Lawnboy Oil @ a 25:1 ratio up to about six years ago when I went to Red Armor in all of my other twenty seven pieces of 2 cycle equipment. Don't know how many cords of wood this saw has cut, but it still runs and cuts like new. However due to its' weight and hard pull starting for these seventy five year arthritic shoulders, it only gets started and run for a few minutes twice a year.
We had a Multiquip rammer compactor with a Robin 2 stroke engine and for 10 years we ran 5w30 Pennzoil for our mix, never had a problem.
I’ve been running ATF in my 2 cycle trimmers, chainsaws, and hedge trimmers for the last 20 years. My trimmer is 20 years old this year. 17 years for my hedge trimmer and chainsaws. They run smooth and clean. 25:1. I just buy a quart bottle of ATF each spring, lasts me all season. Plugs always look good, and they all start right up.
@ 25:1 any oil is going to work. the chinese with their zenoah clones they sell all spec 25:1 because they sell those saws all over the world in every 3d world market and have no idea what oil people will wind up putting in them. you could use old 4 stroke oil at 25:1 and be ok. some of the old outboards speced 24:1 with 30w oil.
@@MrSGL21 Goes to show you what you DON’T know!! ATF is NOT motor oil! It’s not 20 or 30 wt. Obviously you don’t know enough to know that! You should! So you’re getting SCHOOLED! ATF is a great deal like high cost spindle oil. Also like Turbine oil (if you use synthetic!) It lubricates very well at HIGH SPEEDS! Motor oil isn’t made for high speeds (I know you have no clue!!). At 25:1 it provides superior lubrication over long terms at high speeds. ATF is thinner than 30 wt, so 25:1 is necessary.
@@wolfman007zz OK boomer.
@@MrSGL21 Such an appropriate answer from one who set out to impart “knowledge!” Remember: Boomers are the ones who gave you all you enjoy today! Your generation? Not much….
Some brands of 2 cycle oil list ethonal treatment additive in the oil. Marine engines although water cooled and therefore run cooler, operate in a much different environment. I would suspect the inlet air would have more moisture
Does this mean that the marine oil is formulated to run with intake air with higher moisture. How would this affect longer time test results
Now that was a good test.Ive always run Stihl HP non synthetic in my Stihls and others.Been a dirt biker my whole life and run Kawi racing oil non synthetic 2 STR.Friend of mine used to use Homelite chainsaw oil in his dirt bike with no problems.Its what he had being a small engine mechanic.Gee guess I'm goin to try to use up some of that Kawi oil and snowmobile oil.Thank you😃 Tom (chainsaw rescuer)
The best oil sthil orange bottle 2-stroke oil and bar oil take it from me I bye a new equipment bye cheap boat oil
I use Stihl HP oil 42:1 2,200hrs + combined with different air cooled engines.
Dont get fooled by others your videos are always great and informative.
To the oil I can say that I like to use Stihl HP ultra when I mix fuel. In all my own two strokes I prefer to use MotoMix or Aspen2. I never had any carb issue since then.
Great video (again!). I just need an operation like yours here NE MA!
The Marine 2 cycle oil if it is TW3 labeled will have Brightstock in it plus some other chemicals that will be better on the chain saws Brightstock makes the oil slicker and is high detergent to help the engine run clean make a ash less burn. Should be a PIB oil which is clear so they add coloring like blue. add a chemical to keep it from clumping so that it won't plug up oil injectors. It starts out at 20w oil but the additives makes it a heavier oil. You should be fine using it.
About 20 years ago I bought a box of 2 cycle snowmobile oil in about 1 quart bottles. I think there was about 10 bottles. I ran all of it thru chainsaws, string trimmers, 2 cycle cultivators and a couple lawnboy push mowers. Never had an engine seize or die or show any signs of damage beyond the usual fuel lines and carb kits that these 2 cycles seem to like
Snowmobiles turn higher RPM's than outboards
I bought 12 gallons of Arctic Cat snow mobile oil in 01’ at a Michigan snow show. We and my wife’s family were running 6 sleds at that time. When my wife stopped paying for their sled gas, my oil stash seemed last forever. I still have 5 gallons new and 1 open. My Stihl’s have run it for 20 years. And I work for a Stihl dealer and sell Stihl gear.
FYI, I have used the 2 cycle oil for my mercury outboard with the tcw3 for years with no issues, until you convinced me to try the shindiawa oil. Haven't tried it yet, but I'm expecting it to be good stuff. Thanks, John
I use Blue Marble oil in my 2 strokes. Bought a few gallons back in my snowmobile days and loved Blue Marble. Quality quality oil is quality oil. Same for two-stroke oil
Back when I was roadracing (1979-1985) with Yamaha 2stroke twins, I used Yamaha’s oil at 20 to 1 ratio and never had an issue. Old timers used Blendzal Castor oil recommended at 1gal to a 15oz can. Still have 10 cans! The exhaust smell from castor oil is great! In my Stihl equipment I’ve used their oil as I have so much of it but have also used VPs premix fuel.
My dad used to run TCW3 oil from his outboards in his chainsaws. He noticed after a short period of time the saws were harder to start and were low on compression. Turns out TCW3 is not limited by the RPM, but the fact that those outboards are water cooled and operate at a MUCH lower temp than the air cooled chainsaws. Hes started using dedicated chainsaw engine oil in his chainsaws now and the problem has gone away.
If it got better, it must have just been gummed up... he was probably running 25:1 or 32:1 which is too much oil for saws but good for outboards
2 stroke outboards run around 5,000 RPM tops, chainsaws typically around 13,000 RPM plus they are air cooled vs. water cooled outboards. Outboards also do not generally suffer ‘shock’ loads like chainsaws can being occasionally stuck in a cut and stalled. Outboards generally run at constant RPMs, chainsaws do not.
Back in the mid eighties I bought a used 1979 Yamaha RD 400 Daytona Special from a customer of mine. It is a 2 cylinder 2 stroke air cooled motorcycle with oil injection, so you don't mix the oil externally.
I wanted to treat it well, so I asked him which oil he had been using in order that I can continue using the same oil. He said he used Quicksilver two stroke oil, and told me the department store he got it from.
A couple months later I burnt up the engine and brought it to the Yamaha dealer to get repaired. It needed new pistons rings and cylinders.
I asked what caused the problem and we figured out that quicksilver is a marine oil made for watercooled engines. Changing over to air cooled engine oil kept me from having oil related issues since then.
Later on, I ended up leaning it out too much and burnt a hole through the piston, but that was my own fault. One of these days I'll get it back together again.
50 1 do it thick
Most oil say both boat an chain saws .
Goodmorning from alabama Ms Bre. As a general rule l use 3.2 oz full synthetic oil. Some l pickup at Lowes. I do check the cylinder now an then. An seems fine. If theres anything better ld sure use it. So thankyou for the effort.
You are so true to your words. Thank you for sharing. ❤
Polaris had problems years ago trying to use one oil in their ATV's Snowmobiles and Watercraft. Outboard oil has more detergents where air cooled small engine oil has more tackyness to stick to crank bearings and stuff at high RPM's. Outboard oil will eventually take the crank bearings out on a chainsaw especially one that revs high RPM's. I also had a 2005 Yamaha Zuma moped that had been ran on Klotz full synthetic 2 cycle oil since new that had 30,000+ miles on it and had never had a wrench laid on the engine except to clean the carbon from the muffler and change the belt. Had the original sparkplug replaced at 26,000 miles. Sold it and it still had excellent compression and ran excellent had never been rebuilt. Most mopeds don't make 10,000 miles.
I just put a comment up about this and that was the death of my Echo PB 710.
Thanks. kind of answers my questions. tho, i've never grasped reasoning or meaning of "detergents" usage. 'tacky' (word) takes heat, not build up? but i get it, no detergent. haha
@@kareno8634 detergents clean to keep carbon buildup in check due to lower operating temperature because they are usually liquid cooled. Also they do not usually rev over 8000-9000 RPM.
@@jasonbusch3624 Thanks!
@@kareno8634 your welcome
I would love to see Amsoil 2 cycle oil included in your testing. I have had great success with this.
Bri, I am an old school Homelite Super XL man. I own seven of them that all run. I started using Walmart two cycle marine oil in one gallon jugs several years ago. Granted these saws are slower rpms and use a 16 to 1 mix ratio. I have never had a minutes trouble using marine two cycle oil. My old Super XL's are all red and made in the 1970's. The exhaust is thicker, they vibrate more and are noisier the "bumblebee " saws you used. I can't imagine such a useful lifespan from a Poulan saw.
Run them at 50:1 lol
It may have been a 'preexisting' condition but .... I had a Stihl 066 chainsaw purchased used. In the early fall I had some marine mixed gasoline/oil left over from the boating season. I used the marine oil in the Stihl and it burned up and I had to have it rebuilt. Don't use anything but the recommended 2 cycle oil now and have had not troubles.
I was at a seminar on two stroke oils at a college a few years ago and they stated that the marine oil was a higher grade of oil than regular two stroke oil. They stated their is a reason marine oil is more money.. Marine oil was always made to me run in the gas or oil injected but regular two stroke oil was not plus marine oil had additives in it for water plus it was more environmentally friendly oil compared to regular two stroke because a lot of the marine engine dump the exhausted into the water... Anyways I was always told that if you use marine oil in your trimmer you are just waisting your money as marine oil is way more money then the cheap regular two stroke oil.. I bought a skid of merc quicksilver oil many years ago when a marina closed it's doors and auctioned everything. I was using it in everything for years and never had issues with it. I used that oil in snow machine, the mix gas type and oil injected type. I used it in liquid cooled dirt bikes and oil injected street bikes and oil injected golf carts and chainsaws, quick cut and grass trimmers and I have never had a problem with any motor. If it's on sale and cheaper then regular two stroke oil I will buy it before the regular oil any day
I find that Schaeffer’s Supreme 7000 TC-W3 marine oil is actually less expensive than a lot of the FD rated two cycle oil. I run it 32:1 in my chainsaws. The combustion chambers and exhaust ports are clean as a whistle.
I heard marine oil was superior years ago and have been using it regularly in 32:1 engines. Never had a problem.
Yep, years ago I sold a outboard 2cycle boat and had many quarts of marine 2 cycle oil in the garage. I have been using it in my blower, weed wacker, tiller and old dirt bike for years and have NO oil issues. Mix around 32to1 .
I have been using the same Arctic Cat 2cycle snowmobile fuel mix oil for 20+ years In everything. I bought 4 cases of 4 gallons each at a snow show for family vacation use. And still have plenty. My Stihl’s work fine.
I've heard it has something to do with marine engines often running cool because they always take in cool water, thus needing better lubricvation. Might just be an old wives tale
Years ago we used marine 2 stroke oil in a Lawn Boy mower. The only issue that arose was carbon buildup in the exhaust port.
Those old LawnBoy 2-stroke mowers always carboned up! 😁
Good video. I’ve had snowmobile’s/dirt-bikes/chainsaws, outboards and trimmers and have a lot of excess 2 stroke oil in all configs be that for marine/snow/dirt/c-saw. Some thats 40+ yrs old, some that is newer too and a flat of the stil 2oz bottles I got with a saw for the “warranty.” I’ve never had any issues with any of the oils and find that the small btls are priced higher, or a name brand is, they all run the same. Some if my saws are 50+ yrs old, my trimmer is about 40 yrs old but they all run well.
You could prob send samples of them in to get molecular breakdowns but at the end of the day, they all mix with gas and add the lubricity needed. The ratio might be a bigger factor IMHO. However, I’m not throwing away oil marked for a sled or a boat just to buy some in a fancy lil bottle for a c-saw. I’m using it. My stihl, husq, or 1968 McCulloch don’t care as long as there is good gas and oil. Thanks for posting this one, it was good to watch.
Great channel. Love the shirt and the information !
Good day! Always enjoy your videos! I ran Pennsoil Outboard marine oil for about 15 years from about 1985 to 2000. My stuff always ran great but it did, on some equipment carbon up the exhaust screen making the engine hard to start. Clean the screen and good as new! After my stash of the Pennsoil ran out I started using oil for air cooled engines. Only difference I could tell was the screens never clogged again.
By the way I still have and use some of the power equipment that I ran on the marine oil and it runs perfect to this day!
The reason you shouldn’t use marine 2 stroke oil in your air cooled 2 strokes has nothing to do with rpm differences instead it’s all to do with the heat at which each engine runs. Air cooled 2 strokes run wayyyy hotter. You’ll increase the probability that you’ll burn up an air cooled engine up running marine 2 stroke in one and you’ll foul the marine engine running air cooled 2t oils.
Thats what I always thought too. The difference is in the operating temps.
But explain how that thought process works with the outboard engines that were air cooled 🤔
That's not true. the difference between the two oils is additional additives to the marine oil to inhibit moisture corrosion. Otherwise, they are pretty much the same stuff as any 2-stroke oil. In all likelihood, it is better to run marine oil in lawn equipment than plain 2-stroke oil for that reason.
Many marine 2-stroke oils say right on the label they are good for motorcycles, weed eaters, leaf blowers and other air cooled 2-stroke engines. That's not hard at all to find.
I have used Power Care from Home Depot for years. $9.87 for 16 oz in a measuring container that makes for simple, precise mixing.
Never had any plug fowling or other negative affects. Saws, trimmers, edgers, blowers - all run strong and start easy. Some of my 2 cycle lawn stuff is over 40 years old and still going strong...
I've been using a standard 2-stroke motorcycle oil in my husky 351 for over 15 years now. Zero problems, no evidence of overheating either and the plug is always clean summer or winter. Occasionally I need to run it at -30°C and no problems there, but I let the engine warm up a bit before putting under load. I always make sure the oil/gas ratio is as the manufacturer says it should be, though. Cheers from northern Alberta, Canada.
Good morning all.
Yesterday was oil and filter changes on five of my gas engines. One truck, one car, the rider, the tiller, and the power washer. I got so carried away that after watching this I may change my two stroke oil too.
I'm having a bit of trouble finding the drain plugs
The drainplug on a 2 stroke is on top of the round thingy... Beer is required to remove it..
You should get a copy of the tcw3 test procedures it has a section on a air-cooled 50cc engine that they block off the air-cooled part to test how well it works in an extreme condition
Ha!
I'd be super curious to see an oil lab test - though 2 cycles burn up all the oil so I'm not sure how you'd test that. Project Farm does a lot of oil tests that are super useful!
Pull up a Project Farm video. He has lab results
I know from picking up loads at different plants the off brands are the same just with different labels. That said oil co. sales terminals do have the ability to add different additives to product normally gas or diesel fuel. The best way to know the answer to you're question is thru long term use, but from you're initial results they do appear to be the same.
Luv you darlin, just wanted to comment about oil. I am a hydraulic engineer, a little old at 88 but I understand that Mobile has a hydraulic oil that improves your pump life and if you spill it makes the grass greener. I worked in Chicago and after the fire they required fire resistant fluids. Vickers, on their spec sheet claimed a reduction of 40% in pump life. I am in favor of water hydraulics with 5000 psi and with an additive it does not freeze.
The main difference between the oils is how the work at lower temperatures, like at idle. They're both premium oils, they're just engineered to do their best work in different environments.
Thanks for the video. I have been using synthetic marine oil (just because I had it on the shelf) in my Poulan chain saw, Craftsman weed whacker, and Stihl backpack blower for several years. Didn't know you weren't supposed to. Zero problems. My blower gets many many hours per year. Runs great.
What Brand/Type oil ? What ratio ?
@@shannonwhitaker9630 Quicksilver synthetic blend 3.2 oz per gallon, 40 to 1.
The Quicksilver line comes in different formulations apparently… DI, PWC, Plus 2 and Multi-use Premium.
@@shannonwhitaker9630 I use DI, same oil I use in my 2 cycle outboard motor.
They are much different oils because outboard engines are WATER COOLED, not air cooled, and thus never get above 200 degrees. These chainsaws can get as high as 350 to 400 on the head and TCW3 will break down at high temps like that.
Always use Lucas smoke les two stroke oil and have done for the last 30 years Never an issue but it aint cheap I just rate Lucas oils All the best from the U.K. !!
I bought a new Jonsered 455 in 1988. In the operators manual it said to use TCW 3. I used oil from the dealer and amoco ultimate. Never had a problem.