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Those temperature guns are very handy, but can also be deceiving. The area they measure is much (MUCH) larger than the little red dot. Comparing it to that IR camera I saw you with might be quite informative. Also the temperature they read has a lot to do with emissivity. Take two engines, polish the metal on one of them, then measure both with your temperature gun and you will read quite a difference in temperature. Using a contact thermometer you will find they are actually the same. We used to stone commutators and slip rings when they would show to be too hot. The "temperature" would immediately drop, drastically. When you compared the temperature to the mass it was obvious that the copper couldn't cool that quickly. The shiny copper (from polishing) had a lower emissivity, so it read cooler.
Hi Bri, I was an automatic transmission engineer that designed and developed automatics for 35 years. I'm also a small engine mechanic hobbiest that have repaired over 10,000 small engines. Anyway, when I worked at Chrysler I got involved with new ATF programs for our transmissions and had several meetings with our oil additive suppliers. Anyway we talked extensively about 2 cycle oil additive packages just for my own interest. They told me that the air cooled oils contains ash in it and it's not used in marine applications due to fouling issues of the plug at idle since many boaters troll with their outboard motors. Ash content is very durable for high speed and high temp 2 stroke applications especially when mixing at 50:1. They told me marine oils are fine for air cooled motors if you just run it richer at like 32:1 or 40:1. I always use marine oil at 32:1 for my chainsaws and blowers and have never had a problem. The additive suppliers also said that any TCW3 is fine because they have to pass the same tests as any other oil which is the 70 hp Evinrude motor run for 100 hours at 4000 rpms mixed at 100:1. Therefore I buy the cheap Supertech 2 cycle oil from Walmart. The only difference is the smell may be a little different however performance is the same. So the moral of the story is you are correct. If spending big dollars for high tech oil is your thing, then do it. However if you run marine 2 cycle oil just run it a little richer for your air cooled 2 strokes. BTW I run my outboard at 40:1.
How do you convert from a 50:1 mixture to a 40:1 mixture per gallon of gas if I want to buy the Marine oil by the gallon. How many ounces of marine 2 cycle oil to one gallon of gas to make it 40 :1 Thanks
@@ToyotaTacoma-js6on All you need to remember is that a gallon is 128 oz. For any mix, just divide by the ratio. (While that is not 100% true, it is as close as you need to be.) Or, even a little rougher, but close enough: 2.6 oz ~ 50:1; 3oz ~ 40:1; 4oz ~ 32:1; 5oz ~ 25:1
I enjoyed the oil video immensely. Many years ago in the mid sixties I was an engineer working for Kawasaki and later for Yamaha. The oil question was a frequent topic of conversation between all of us in the R&D departments. Back then there were few true 2 stroke oils that were specifically designed for air cooled racing engines. If you were racing a very high performance 2 stroke engine Castor oils held up quite well compared to the average 4 stroke oils that most people would use. Castor oil worked exceptionally well except that the piston and rings were very fouled with carbon deposits. 4 stroke oils were marginal at best. They had to be run at 20 to 1 ratio so they smoked a lot and didn’t produce the best results. With the development of specialized 2 stroke racing oils things became much better for the racing engines. The street legal bikes had a system of oil injection that worked fairly well and it had some amount of adjustment to get a better blend. It wasn’t until Torco developed its 2 stroke injection oil called Power Stroke that the automated injection system became more effective. It was a 40 to 1 ratio for normal riding and 32 to 1 for racing purposes. It was definitely a game changer in engine reliability and very low carbon deposits. For us racers we were in heaven until various other manufacturers developed higher performance oils that we gladly accepted and put to use. Today I use the Stihl little bottles because they are convenient and if I buy a new piece of equipment from Stihl and a 6 pack of their oil they automatically double my warranty. I have never needed the additional warranty but it feels better to have it. I applaud your side by side testing because you have proven a fairly well known option of engineers that oils that have a manufacturer approval rating are all going to do a pretty good job if used properly. A little aside is that I use full synthetic oils in all of my road vehicles because of the greater heat protection. It is quite possible that I will never need the extra protection but I am in my 70’s now and I don’t want to do any maintenance on any of my equipment unless absolutely necessary. I do love your style of sharing your gained knowledge in a useful and informative way. Bravo. Best Regards Al Hartley
As a Grand Master Marine Tech for 48 years: Marine oil (TCWIII--- thermostatically controlled water cooled) has a lower flash point to burn cleanly in an outboard. High flash point oils will slowly gum up over extended periods, such as trolling for hours on end, because your engine won't run hot enough to burn them cleanly. If you're a go faster that runs wot all the time it won't make a difference. You don't idle your chain saw for three hours like you would an outboard.
I worked in the bush my whole life and owned every make of saws .I owned my own logging company for years .I started in the logging industry we I was 18 and bucked 100 cords of 8 foot of poplar wood a day for years ,2 guys behind a grapple 528 cat skidder. Now I am 57 and still cut fire wood every day. I have even used motor oil as mix oil at times but shaking the jug before you use it .I learned this from a guy that had an allergy from the 2 stroke smoke, so he had to use motor oil and he cut lots of wood and no problems.in the old days my dad would take the inside out of the muffler for more power and remove every brake it had .he worked in the logging industry for 65 years .
Old timers used to run a mix of straight 30 weight oil mixed in their gas, like 30:1, and use the same on in the bar oiler in old saws, with no problem. I’m talking up until the 80s.
Been running Amsoil synthetic 100 to 1 in all my chain saws, blowers and weed eaters for 40 years and have never had any issues. Also ran it in my in my Mercury 150 hp XR2 for years with no issues. 👍🤷🏻♂️
@@buddylove4882 in all my chain saws, weed eaters and blowers I use the Amsoil Saber professional synthetic 2 stroke oil. 1.5 FL oz. makes 100 to 1 in a gallon of gas. I normally put a little over 9/10s of gas to one pack of oil. In my 150 hp XR2 i used the amsoil infector oil in it being it was oil injected. I got it in 2.5 gallon jugs. My new outboard motor is 4 cycle so I don’t have to worry about mixing the gas and oil. But the injector oil was designed for oil injected outboard engines. Hope this helps. The Saber works very well in 2 stroke dirt bikes also.
@@buddylove4882 yes but I’ve fouled a plug or had any issues with over heating. I fished 25 tournaments a year with the XR2 and it still had the same plugs in it I bought it with. I fished with that boat for about 6 years like that. The same goes for all my other equipment, I’ve never changed a plug in any of them. I retired as a Aircraft mechanic after 42 years and synthetic oil is the only thing that will take the heat of a jet engine without breaking down under the heat. It cost more but you get a lot more out of it for sure.
@@davidbaker1359 oh you^re the man no doubt. Well i^m just of recently become a carburetor mechanical engineer(lol),if you will because I learned from the best.Chicanic and The Lawnmower Lady gave me my degree and with yor oil I can got over the top.
I own a lawn business with 185 yards and I switched from the little bottles 10 years ago to quart bottles of Lucas 2 cycle oil and have never had any problems. Just a lot more money in my pocket from not buying the over priced little bottles. Thanks for the videos!!
@@markhatcher4325 that very cheap oil I wouldn't put it in a moped it not going last long take from me go with sthil in orange bottle 2-stroke oil bar oil
I own 2 Stihl chain saws, 2 string trimmers ( FS55 FS91) and 2 blowers BR450 and hand held and have used Marine 2 stroke oil for 30 years and everything still works fine.
I have been using Motomix from Stihl for about twenty years. The equipment runs cleaner and it doesn't gum up when sitting for an extended period. It also has a shelf-life of about five years.
The difference is liquid cooled versus air cooled. Air cooled engines run at a wider temperature range. For motocross motorcycles the oils were formulated different when liquid cooling became common. I have had good results using outboard boat oil in all of my aircooled equipment. For decades.
I like your honesty! In the old days our superwiz 66's and 55's witch was a all out commercial chainsaw at the time never gave any lubrication issues. And the instructions said to mix sae 30 weight motor oil with the gas to make your mix. It's all about emissions today and that's the reason we have to use this smokeless oil. I like this lady's out and out honesty.
I'm an old guy too, and remember a Dirt Bike Magazine article from the 70's saying 'in a pinch' you could just pre-mix any automotive oil...but like Jason pointed out, these machines didn't have the proformance of modern 2 strokes.
I am an old guy too. As I remember it, 30-weight non-detergent oil was actually the recommended oil to use. They later came out with the special 2-cycle oil. As I said I am old so my memory could be wrong.
Message to Chickanic: Thank you so much for this video. Not only have you shown there doesn't seem to be difference between the oils, but you created a huge discussion forum on the subject. Also a thanks to all who have posted their experiences and successes. It's a real rabbit hole of information. This is what RUclips should be about.
Way back in the day, I ran Lawnboys and used outboard oil with great results. With that being said, when I moved up to using commercial Echo equipment, I continued to use outboard oil. After a few seasons, it destroyed my Echo back pack blower. (yes, it was always mixed at the proper ratio) Since then I used the old green Echo oil. Then I moved up to the Red Armor. I have used Red armor in many 2 cycle equipment with excellent results. My equipment have a lot of hours on them and still run like new. A long term study is truly the only way to make a final evaluation.
Echo owners manual states the warranty is void if you use anything other than an "FD" rated 2-cycle oil. It does NOT need to be Echo branded, but it must be FD rated. I like Red Armor too, I use it in my Suzuki 2-cycle powered Toro Recycler, my Toro 3650 R-Tek 2-cycle snowblower, and my Echo equipment.
@@frankparsley1913 My Suzuki 2-cycle Toro is actually a consumer model. It is a 1991, the very first year of Toro's Recycler. It has a cast aluminum deck with plastic "kickers", but they did not begin to call them a "Super Recycler" until 1993. Still starts from cold with a half-pull of the rope, and the 32yr old Japanese-made Suzuki still runs like new.
I’ve been running ATF in my 2 cycle trimmers, chainsaws, and hedge trimmers for the last 20 years. My trimmer is 20 years old this year. 17 years for my hedge trimmer and chainsaws. They run smooth and clean. 25:1. I just buy a quart bottle of ATF each spring, lasts me all season. Plugs always look good, and they all start right up.
@ 25:1 any oil is going to work. the chinese with their zenoah clones they sell all spec 25:1 because they sell those saws all over the world in every 3d world market and have no idea what oil people will wind up putting in them. you could use old 4 stroke oil at 25:1 and be ok. some of the old outboards speced 24:1 with 30w oil.
@@MrSGL21 Goes to show you what you DON’T know!! ATF is NOT motor oil! It’s not 20 or 30 wt. Obviously you don’t know enough to know that! You should! So you’re getting SCHOOLED! ATF is a great deal like high cost spindle oil. Also like Turbine oil (if you use synthetic!) It lubricates very well at HIGH SPEEDS! Motor oil isn’t made for high speeds (I know you have no clue!!). At 25:1 it provides superior lubrication over long terms at high speeds. ATF is thinner than 30 wt, so 25:1 is necessary.
@@MrSGL21 Such an appropriate answer from one who set out to impart “knowledge!” Remember: Boomers are the ones who gave you all you enjoy today! Your generation? Not much….
Some brands of 2 cycle oil list ethonal treatment additive in the oil. Marine engines although water cooled and therefore run cooler, operate in a much different environment. I would suspect the inlet air would have more moisture Does this mean that the marine oil is formulated to run with intake air with higher moisture. How would this affect longer time test results
Great video! My particular experience: At one time, I was an avid snowmobile rider. Then, my back went bad, and after I sold the sleds and trailer, I had several gallons of leftover Polaris Blue snowmobile oil, from the mid-late 90's. It's mostly been an expedient, since I had so much of it, but I've been using this in all of my two strokes, some as old as 1967, no problems so far. For all my 4 strokes including cars and lawn and garden stuff I use any pure synthetic 5w/30 - 10w/30 oil made by Warren Oil Co, or Warren Distributing. Again, no problems with it so far.
Same here. I am just finishing up the last of my snowmobile oil. It's done really well in my chainsaws. Cut my first tandem load of firewood and no issues whatsoever.
I just wanted to say thanks for your videos. I'm a shade tree mechanic (journeyman autobody mechanic) and have worked on my own stuff for years. By no means an automotive expert but am pretty good at the basics. I like the way you present your topics and they are very helpful. I think the best knowledge I have gained is on ethanol in fuel. I didn't realize how it could affect so many of my tools and toys. I've used stabilizer for years and have run everything dry before end of season. But I would still use the gas from last year the next season. Also if gas was at a good price over the winter season, I would stock up (with stabilizer added) for the next season. Not going to do that anymore. Will only purchase what I can use within the appropriate timeframe. Cheaper price gas can cost me more in repairs later. Also kudos to you for being an example to woman everywhere. For years I have said the trades needed more women. I hope you can inspire more young women to get into any trade. Keep up the great work and videos.
I have my own large storage tank. I order 93 ethanol free. It's a nickle or dime more than ethanol tainted fuel. Stabile really has no effect. Fuel still goes bad pretty quick. Here in desert heat, the color of the fuel changes first, an a month it turns orange. The 93 ethanol free lasts 2 years. A guy here on RUclips has done extensive testing. He's called project farm and is easily one of the best.
My dad used to run TCW3 oil from his outboards in his chainsaws. He noticed after a short period of time the saws were harder to start and were low on compression. Turns out TCW3 is not limited by the RPM, but the fact that those outboards are water cooled and operate at a MUCH lower temp than the air cooled chainsaws. Hes started using dedicated chainsaw engine oil in his chainsaws now and the problem has gone away.
2 stroke outboards run around 5,000 RPM tops, chainsaws typically around 13,000 RPM plus they are air cooled vs. water cooled outboards. Outboards also do not generally suffer ‘shock’ loads like chainsaws can being occasionally stuck in a cut and stalled. Outboards generally run at constant RPMs, chainsaws do not.
Back in the mid eighties I bought a used 1979 Yamaha RD 400 Daytona Special from a customer of mine. It is a 2 cylinder 2 stroke air cooled motorcycle with oil injection, so you don't mix the oil externally. I wanted to treat it well, so I asked him which oil he had been using in order that I can continue using the same oil. He said he used Quicksilver two stroke oil, and told me the department store he got it from. A couple months later I burnt up the engine and brought it to the Yamaha dealer to get repaired. It needed new pistons rings and cylinders. I asked what caused the problem and we figured out that quicksilver is a marine oil made for watercooled engines. Changing over to air cooled engine oil kept me from having oil related issues since then. Later on, I ended up leaning it out too much and burnt a hole through the piston, but that was my own fault. One of these days I'll get it back together again.
It would probably take some super scientific long-term testing to really tell the difference, if any. Most real-world users would probably be okay either way. I'd say air filter condition can have as much or more effect on cylinder scoring. Your mileage may vary.
It’s not the RPM difference, it’s the TEMPERATURE difference. OPE is air cooling but marine is water cooling by fresh cold water. THAT is what makes a difference and the need for a different additive package in your oil.
Eator came out with a two stroke air cooled boat motor like 40 years ago and I seen a boat down the road with one as a spare on his inboard outboard. I asked him it runs or its for show and said it still runs. He said his father bought it new over 40 year ago.. He said they only put about 10 hours a year for last 20 years. Before that is was his dads trolling motor for many years.. All they ever used in it was marine two stroke in it
@@staind288 what part wasn't true? I didn't say they were the only makers. I just remember that one. The fact is that marine oil is not just made for liquid cooled motors and in fact it state on Catrol Marine oil that it can be used in almost any two stroke engines.. I never had a issue using marine two stroke oil in everything
Back in my Motocross days a friend and I strictly ran Castrol 2 cycle oil in a Honda Elsinore and a CZ Mx. They both lasted longer than the Guy's who used Klotz , Bel Ray and the other high dollar Oils. I think if You dig deep You'll find that Castrol refines and Bottles all that high dollar stuff that Stihl , Husqvarna and Echo sells us.
I use the castrol 2t motorcycle 2 stroke oil , it's blue and I was taught that by watching Bucking Billy on you tube , ge showed on the old stihl bottles the name Castroil wax there and the showed that mix with the stihl mix and it looks the same and the bottle says it's OK to use and it's cheaper by the quart.
It's like motor oil walmart, atwoods, tractor supply, don't refine oil they all buy it from somewhere, just like stihl Harley, and everyone who makes money selling oil with thier name on the bottle.
I raced boats a longtime, built our own engines. The engine ran 9200 rpm, we used over twice the normal oil ratio. Old school needle bearings required more oil at such high rpm
As a 40 year marine mechanic TCW 3 oil has been formulated for water cooled marine engines that run under 160 deg and 6000 RPM The third generation has been made to combat ring sticking due to carbon caused by todays pump gas. When the oil company's started selling reformulated gas back in the mid to late 1980's we had expensive engine failures left and right due to this problem, so the engine manufactures came up with an additive package hence the tcw1 was born. In years past we are up to the third gen. TCW3. Running marine oil for the short term may not hurt but air cooled engines run at much higher temps and RPM's and approved oils are formulated to run those conditions.
Mad Respect from Oshawa Canada. We just got all our snowplows & equipment put to bed for the summer. Now because we put our grass equipment to bed the correct way, EVERY one of them started on the 1st pull. Thanks for all the advice & direction you've given us all over the years. I'm just a back yard mechanic (mechanically inclined) & I keep equpiment running for 2 landscape companies. Thx to Chick, these guys think I'm a miracle worker! 😊
Great videos and interesting content. The main difference between marine two stroke oil and yard equipment oil is that marine oil is biodegradeable and less polluting for use in more sensitive areas, marine oil is top grade and meant for engines up to 300 hp so it will more than work in a small engine and it is sold in larger amounts to fill up the oil tanks in modern oil injected outboards, I have a tiny Honda generator that uses 100/1mix and it calls for marine two stroke and so I just use it in everything with no issues.
Not all. Only the ones that use vegetable oils. The name usually starts with Bio something..And I'm not really happy with the results or test methods. Only >80 biodegradable in the specific test parameters. So temp, weather, soil, amounts, on ground, animal life, etc. I think it's just a selling point. My opinion as a mechanic
Polaris had problems years ago trying to use one oil in their ATV's Snowmobiles and Watercraft. Outboard oil has more detergents where air cooled small engine oil has more tackyness to stick to crank bearings and stuff at high RPM's. Outboard oil will eventually take the crank bearings out on a chainsaw especially one that revs high RPM's. I also had a 2005 Yamaha Zuma moped that had been ran on Klotz full synthetic 2 cycle oil since new that had 30,000+ miles on it and had never had a wrench laid on the engine except to clean the carbon from the muffler and change the belt. Had the original sparkplug replaced at 26,000 miles. Sold it and it still had excellent compression and ran excellent had never been rebuilt. Most mopeds don't make 10,000 miles.
Thanks. kind of answers my questions. tho, i've never grasped reasoning or meaning of "detergents" usage. 'tacky' (word) takes heat, not build up? but i get it, no detergent. haha
@@kareno8634 detergents clean to keep carbon buildup in check due to lower operating temperature because they are usually liquid cooled. Also they do not usually rev over 8000-9000 RPM.
Hey im glad I found this video. I own a landscaping business and 1 season in a pinch used 2 cycle marine oil. Followed the 50:1 mix instructions and 4 seasons later still use it in all my echo trimmers and back packs with out any issue. The first season I used the marine 2 cycle I had sthil trimmers and packs and haven't yet moved to echo. Disclaimer the sthil equipment was already 7 seasons deep and on their way out. Me and my crews absolutely beat the shit outta the echos due to number of accounts we have but they seem to me to be more durable and the echos were brand new when I started using marine 2 cycle and all echo equipment run with out fail with obvious normal maintenance weekly. Marine is cheaper and has yet to be a bad decision using it all my 2 cycle equipment
Echo is more durable. My buddy used to run a huge landscaping company with dozens of crews. They switched everything from Stihl to Echo and saw a significant decrease in issues.
About 20 years ago I bought a box of 2 cycle snowmobile oil in about 1 quart bottles. I think there was about 10 bottles. I ran all of it thru chainsaws, string trimmers, 2 cycle cultivators and a couple lawnboy push mowers. Never had an engine seize or die or show any signs of damage beyond the usual fuel lines and carb kits that these 2 cycles seem to like
I bought 12 gallons of Arctic Cat snow mobile oil in 01’ at a Michigan snow show. We and my wife’s family were running 6 sleds at that time. When my wife stopped paying for their sled gas, my oil stash seemed last forever. I still have 5 gallons new and 1 open. My Stihl’s have run it for 20 years. And I work for a Stihl dealer and sell Stihl gear.
I have an Echo SRM 2601 trimmer and an Echo TCM 2100 tiller. Both are over 20 years old. I've always used marine oil in both 32:1. I have rebuilt the carburators once on each of them, replaced several primer bulbs. Other than that they always start by the third pull and run great. I'm also a residential user with 3 acres of grass.
My dad has been a small engine mechanic all his life. From chainsaws, lawnmowers, snowmobiles, atv's, to outboard motors, he's worked on it all. Anyway, when I was a kid the marina he worked at gave him a great deal on all parts and accessories. Well he would always buy me their cheaper brand 2 stroke outboard engine oil for my old snowmobile (250cc single cylinder Ski-doo Elan), and I ran gallons of that stuff through my machine and put on millions of miles and never had a problem with the engine.
I was at a seminar on two stroke oils at a college a few years ago and they stated that the marine oil was a higher grade of oil than regular two stroke oil. They stated their is a reason marine oil is more money.. Marine oil was always made to me run in the gas or oil injected but regular two stroke oil was not plus marine oil had additives in it for water plus it was more environmentally friendly oil compared to regular two stroke because a lot of the marine engine dump the exhausted into the water... Anyways I was always told that if you use marine oil in your trimmer you are just waisting your money as marine oil is way more money then the cheap regular two stroke oil.. I bought a skid of merc quicksilver oil many years ago when a marina closed it's doors and auctioned everything. I was using it in everything for years and never had issues with it. I used that oil in snow machine, the mix gas type and oil injected type. I used it in liquid cooled dirt bikes and oil injected street bikes and oil injected golf carts and chainsaws, quick cut and grass trimmers and I have never had a problem with any motor. If it's on sale and cheaper then regular two stroke oil I will buy it before the regular oil any day
I find that Schaeffer’s Supreme 7000 TC-W3 marine oil is actually less expensive than a lot of the FD rated two cycle oil. I run it 32:1 in my chainsaws. The combustion chambers and exhaust ports are clean as a whistle.
Yep, years ago I sold a outboard 2cycle boat and had many quarts of marine 2 cycle oil in the garage. I have been using it in my blower, weed wacker, tiller and old dirt bike for years and have NO oil issues. Mix around 32to1 .
I have been using the same Arctic Cat 2cycle snowmobile fuel mix oil for 20+ years In everything. I bought 4 cases of 4 gallons each at a snow show for family vacation use. And still have plenty. My Stihl’s work fine.
I've heard it has something to do with marine engines often running cool because they always take in cool water, thus needing better lubricvation. Might just be an old wives tale
Great content! We need to see long term, multi-gallon and multi season oil use in order to determine effectiveness of the different oils. They will all perform satisfactorily during short duration usage.
I was thinking the same,a longer test time. Say maybe a week of 50 hours of work,or a month of 200 or more hours of cutting trees, small limbs to see what they look like then.
I have a Poulan 220 chainsaw that I’ve had for 21 years. I had to replace fuel lines, clutch, bar, spark plug, and glue the bolts that hold the bar tight, but it still starts up easily and runs great. I’ve used various brands of 2 cycle oil over the years. I really don’t think it matters all that much what brand as long as there is actually some oil mixed in the fuel.
Your experiment was very interesting. 👍 Of my 2 stroke equipment: I have a 42 year old Homelite chainsaw, a 30 year old Craftsman blower and a 25 year old Royobi string trimmer. All have had Walmart 2 stroke marine oil all their lives. Never had any problems. So, the cheap oil is fine for those pieces. However, I also have late model ECHOs: 4910 CS, 2511CS and a 225 string trimmer. All bought
@@shannonwhitaker9630 I go by manufacturer’s instructions. My newer ECHOs use 50:1, My 30 year old Craftsman blower uses 40:1 and my 42 year old Homelite chainsaw uses 30:1.
@@shannonwhitaker9630 From my experience and what I've read, you can use marine oil in a chainsaw or other non marine engine for a short period of time. There's a small risk of damaging the engine if you use it long term. I found an old quart of marine oil that my Dad had. used it with no issue. Went back to using regular 2 stroke oil. Here's a video with a very good layman's explanation: ruclips.net/video/AlmegbfUJpU/видео.html
You probably have been told before---I was an auto mechanic for 50 year career. One word of caution - fuel on bare skin- I have cronic lymphcitic leukemia, almost certainly from fuel exposure to bare skin & poorly venilated inhalation exposure to raw fuel. I am 72 years old & I very much enjoy your videos. Keep up the good work!!
Thank you and well done. For years I have used Amzoil Sabre 100:1 on boats, mowers, motorcycles, weedeaters(1 ounce per gallon ) paying around $47-$50. a gallon much less expensive per gallon ( 1ounce compared to 2.5 ounces per gallon) than premium priced oils with good results.Longevity of equipment is a good bonus.
I’m a firm proponent of Amsoil products. I sell a lot of their 100:1 outboard oil for the two stroke outboard customers (except the really old stuff with plain bearings). I’ve YET to have a complaint from my customers, or get a report that their engines are suffering by running a leaner oil mix. Their Sabre line of power equipment oil is a favorite amongst the lawn and garden folks. If they run everything at 80:1, they don’t have issues or failures.
100:1 is terrible for wear and long term life.. Satisfies the no smoke crowd though. We run a bank of 10 identical engines side by side and anything over 10,000 RPM will last longer at 32:1.
@@GT-mn3bx While this is true for stuff such as chainsaws, outboard motors generally never get over 5500 rpm. If they wind them up tighter than that, it's likely they'll scatter. The Amsoil Sabre is designed to run lean mixtures. I've yet to have any outdoor power equipment customers tell me it shortened the life on their equipment running it at 80:1. Did you do your testing with the Sabre, or any other synthetics?
As a kid, 1958, I had never seen "2 cycle oil". Only two strokes I was exposed to were outboards. Dad had a horse and half as well a 5 HP. He used regular motor oil in the fuel. 24:1 ratio. Used a small Cocola bottle to measure oil. I think it was a six oz. bottle. Side note: some oil actually came in glass jars at the time and had a spout that would screw on. I never recall even a fouled plug. The 1.5 came over on the Mayflower. Largest outboard I recall at the time was either 33 or 35 HP. Neighbor had two strapped on his boat. A monster at the time. I enjoy this ladies programs so much.
As long as the oils have the same rating there is no difference, but Marine oil has a detergent in it to breakdown in water, so the manifold does not block. (Water is mixed with the exhaust) as well as disperse oil into the water so it does not form a slick. Marine engines also can run at over 100 to 1 mix, so their oil has a high API standard.
@@foxlake6750 you can say it’s a tiny fraction, and maybe in some areas it is, but out where I live old motors are the norm. Lots of 25hp Johnson’s out on the lakes still.
I have an old mercury 250 snowmobile 1970 that my dad bought new , any way in the owners manual it specifically says to use mercury quicksilver oil in it that is outboard oil , my dad use to mix 1 16 Oz bottle quicksilver oii to five gallon of gas as I also do , never had to rebuild the moter and to this day it runs great
Great content. I've raced 2 strokes for years, 2 stroke street bikes in the 80's, jet skis also and have tried them all. I also use chainsaws etc for work. The VP 94 premix I like. I also use left over 110 race gas with MX oil. Oakland Rentals uses Amsoil on their tools and thinks it's the best. It seems to me that any high quality oil works fine just don't store Ethanol fuel in whatever you run.
Great test Bre. I enjoy your show, and I learn a lot from your experience. I used to run Itasca and/or Pennzoil synthetic TCW-3 oil in my outboards. I deleted the oil injection and ran a 40:1 ratio, since I was spinning the engines above their normal RPM range. Never had an oil related problem. Since I sold my last boat, I had a bunch of that oil left over, which I now run in my 2-stroke small engines. I run those at 25:1, as I've found the richer oil mixture actually reduces carbon buildup and helps prevent ring sticking. I do generally have to adjust the carbs a little richer, as the oil displaces some of the fuel and leans the A/F ratio. I haven't had any trouble with plug fouling either.
I wonder if Project Farm has done a similar test using his testing techniques? It might mater what environment the 2-cycle device is being used in. Like these 2 saws, they saw very little usage between seasons or if its a commercial operation using the saws for hours a day, everyday. IMHO, air-cooled engines should run hotter than a marine engine with a water jacket. That means there might be some temperature related processes happening in one oil that might not happen with the other oil and vice-versa.
Problem is those poulans are known for not holding up under any conditions. Yes Im old enough to remember when Poulans were good........ but that was decades ago and now when we say Poulan we just mean another Chinesse saw.
Just ran across this video today and find it very interesting... Years ago I used to run race boats with the high performance Mercury 2.5/ 260 horsepower offshore race outboards which would generally top out between 7,000 and 10,000 RPM and the oil I always ran in those was the Mercury Quicksilver premium Plus mixed at 32 to 1 and since I have so much of that oil around that's what I have been using in all My chainsaws and weed wackers and leaf blowers ever since and have never had an issue with carbon buildup or abnormal wear in anything...
I use marine oil on all my 2 stroke cheaper in long run. In the 60's used always 30W motor oil and in those days 25/1 was the norm in ratio of oil. Still use whatever oil just mix a little more oil if your worried if does proper lubrication. Boat motor or motorcycle with oil injection if injection system plugs up just mix oil in gasoline no problem that way. I myself prefer mixing oil myself seen to many oil injection system plug up or not metering properly.
When I was kid in the early 70’s we ran Bultaco 250 Matador e we itch 30w. Our dads set us kids up with how to mix and made sure we knew to slosh the tank a few times before starting it cold. We never had issues with fuel and went on all day trail rides every weekend for years.
I've been using that supertech two cycle motorboat oil in my 2 smokers for over a half century now ..I've got a Stihl 028AV I've run the hell out of it using Walmart outboard oil in it all of its life and it still specs out new internally and she still looks like she's hardly been used even though it's got thousands of hours on it ... The older version container labels on the Walmart two-cycle outboard oil from about 10 or 15 years ago had pictures suggesting you could use it in chainsaws snowmobiles and of course watercraft like jet skis and waverunners ... Last year I bought up a bunch of the Pennzoil Platinum synthetic outboard oil because it was actually cheaper than the super tech I've used a gallon and a half of it so far in everything from my micro limbing saws to my Stihl 066 and 088 and so far so good👍
Same with my dad has a old 1976 homelite that he's been running super tech and before that he ran pamida brand outboard 2 cycle oil in it for longer than I've been alive that's over 30 years still runs like new cut over a cord every year
SAME HERE. Supertech marine oil in the mercury outboard........ and in all my lawn equipment, for years. Never had any problem that I could trace back to the oil.
Have a Stihl 041AV that I bought new in 1977 that I only ran Lawnboy Oil @ a 25:1 ratio up to about six years ago when I went to Red Armor in all of my other twenty seven pieces of 2 cycle equipment. Don't know how many cords of wood this saw has cut, but it still runs and cuts like new. However due to its' weight and hard pull starting for these seventy five year arthritic shoulders, it only gets started and run for a few minutes twice a year.
Good morning all. Yesterday was oil and filter changes on five of my gas engines. One truck, one car, the rider, the tiller, and the power washer. I got so carried away that after watching this I may change my two stroke oil too. I'm having a bit of trouble finding the drain plugs
You should get a copy of the tcw3 test procedures it has a section on a air-cooled 50cc engine that they block off the air-cooled part to test how well it works in an extreme condition
The thing you should be looking for is a JASO FD rating on the oil bottle, thats a specification for small air cooled engines like chainsaws and trimmers. Some marine oil has it and some does not. Remember, oil is cheap and engines are expensive. There are plenty of oils sold in big containers at affordable prices which are actually meant for chainsaws.
Agree; look for the JASO FD rating. Lucas 2 stroke has it & is about $35/gal. Valvoline Marine is about that same price. Red Armor (no doubt, a great oil) is about $68. I switched to Lucas over a year ago & my 2-strokes have been running great.
@@ackack1 it's also worth noting that a gallon of 2 cycle oil makes over 40 gallons of mixed fuel, which for the average homeowner is practically a lifetime supply. Most people will only need a gallon or two per year for their chores around the house.
“Oil is cheap” depends really.. I run Quicksilver marine 2 stroke in everything I have. I have a 1983 mercury 50 boat motor and I buy the oil for it and mix 40:1.. I use that same oil in my weedeaters, chainsaws and leaf blowers… been doing it since the late 80’s. Never had a single issue. Stuff costs 32.99/gal. Mixed 40:1 with 87 octane non-ethanol I can make 40 gals for $4.71/gal. If you went and bought True Fuel “engineered” 40:1 it would cost around $32/gal.. and true fuel is cheaper and isn’t that good.. some folks want to use higher dollar stuff… my point is.. if you used true fuel instead, by the time you run through 6 gallons of it you could buy a new weedeater or chainsaw for the money you would waste and I go through 6 gallons pretty quick. Can you imagine how much money the oil industry would lose if everyone just quit over thinking it and started using the cheapest 2 stroke oil and 87 non-ethanol? Anyway that’s just my opinion.. I’m not a chemical engineer or nothin but I’ve been running 2 strokes and working on my own stuff for 30+ years and I’m completely comfortable with continuing to use 87 non ethanol with quicksilver marine 2 stroke mixed 40:1 in all my stuff.
Quicksilver Premium is a multi-use TC-W3/API-TC rated oil for air cooled engines What’s odd about the Quicksilver line of oils are the mixing charts. If notice they call for 3oz of oil per/gal for a 50:1 ratio which in reality is a 42.5:1 ratio.
@shannonwhitaker9630 i have also noticed a couple brands of oil which round up the mixing ratios so they're not accurate. I normally use a little bit extra oil anyway as a safety cushion. Not so much that it causes problems, but a little bit extra. When I'm mixing for a 50:1 piece of equipment, I'll put like 2.75 Oz oil in a gallon. I've heard some people recommend 25:1 but that's just ridiculous. That will cause carbon problems and clog exhaust systems up, not to mention that it will also reduce performance and increase pollution. Not good!
I have several older air cooled outboards. One is a Sears that was made by Tanaka. It is a 1.2 hp. The engine is from a trimmer. Very high rpm with a tiny propeller. All I use is TCW3 outboard oil. Oh, its be used for over 25 years. Thanks for the video.
I’m not a guru, but I did use quicksilver marine 2-stroke in my shindaiwa line trimmer form 1997 until 2022. The poor thing was completely worn out and falling apart except the engine still ran great! I have been a lawn care professional for many years now and I use it in all of my 2-stroke equipment. I use it at 50:1 for everything and have never had an engine failure. It just works great for me here in north Alabama. Like you, though, I keep looking for a definitive explanation about the differences in air cooled versus marine 2-stroke oil. I can’t argue with my personal experience however, so I’ll likely keep using it. Great video! I’m subscribing right now!
I'd be super curious to see an oil lab test - though 2 cycles burn up all the oil so I'm not sure how you'd test that. Project Farm does a lot of oil tests that are super useful!
Bre, like your channel. I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about small engine and yet I still learn a lot from your videos. I rarely comment but feel the need to do so on this occasion. Some outboard oils are meant for pre-mix applications and other are meant for direct injection in 2 cycle engines and not premixed with gasoline. The direct injection type does not mix well with gasoline and if used in a premix application will destroy the engine. Probably something to look into for your self to better understand. Thanks for the good content.
Hello Chickanic, I have been using the same brand Valvoline marine grade 2 stroke on my KM94R for a number of years and she is still purring fine, from Australia
I think that axiom might’ve been true about 40 years ago, but I don’t think it would be true today because all the oils are pretty much made at one of several refineries, and they’re all made to a certain spec. The additives might be different but the base oils are all gonna be pretty much, the same, especially in the synthetics.
The Marine 2 cycle oil if it is TW3 labeled will have Brightstock in it plus some other chemicals that will be better on the chain saws Brightstock makes the oil slicker and is high detergent to help the engine run clean make a ash less burn. Should be a PIB oil which is clear so they add coloring like blue. add a chemical to keep it from clumping so that it won't plug up oil injectors. It starts out at 20w oil but the additives makes it a heavier oil. You should be fine using it.
I've been using Marine 2 stroke oil in my Husqvarna saws for years and my CD 480 I've had for 38 years and have only put a clutch on it and use it yearly
Years ago,,i and my dad used the small 020 Stihl chainsaws.Tuff as nails.We cut firewood ,logs...everything.Wew bored the heck out of them,and installed a 16" bar,,,.... An old guy that repaired saws told my Dad that marine out board oil was the best in a chainsaw, they worked better and didnt smoke,and also burned cleaner very little carbon.. So,we used it and never had a problem with it...ran those little saws for years.Now everyone is saying NO to marine oil mix.I would not be afraid to use it again,actually after watching you Vid ....im going to mix outboard,and chainsaw mix together,,for i made a mistake a month ago and bought a liter of outboard mix....im gonna start using it.Thanks for your videos,,,very imformative. (i tinker with chainsaw and small engine repairs for myself and friends)...im still learning ,and you do a great job!!!
From experience I have found outboard 2 stroke if fine for short runs in air cooled engines but for extended runs under heavy load especially on hot days it doesn't offer sufficient cooling. Air cooled oil whether 2 or 4 stroke is designed to transfer heat to the cylinder walls. I cooked a saw using outboard oil, piston and bore was fine but the ring lost all tension resulting in no compression. In my lawnmower outboard oil worked fine as it wasn't getting used for 4+ hours straight, it also cleaned out the bottom end of my mower after the previous owner run it with no air filter.
I have ran Valvoline 2 cycle oil since the 80,s with no problems. With that said I just purchased a Echo weed eater and a Echo blower and I am running the Echo oil in them just to be safe.
Thanks for the video. I have been using synthetic marine oil (just because I had it on the shelf) in my Poulan chain saw, Craftsman weed whacker, and Stihl backpack blower for several years. Didn't know you weren't supposed to. Zero problems. My blower gets many many hours per year. Runs great.
They are much different oils because outboard engines are WATER COOLED, not air cooled, and thus never get above 200 degrees. These chainsaws can get as high as 350 to 400 on the head and TCW3 will break down at high temps like that.
Amsoil Sabre Professional here too. Been using it from way back when it was 100:1. I mix it 1.5oz (for ease of measure) per gallon and run it in everything. I bought a brand new Lawn Boy mower, grit my teeth and crossed all my fingers and mixed it 100:1 like they said. Later I went to 1.5oz because it just seems to be easier? That thing literally rusted out around the engine which was still running like a top with great compression. Had no issues in all that time which was probably close to 20 years, just a plug and filter every once in awhile and I absolutely abused that thing. I now run Amsoil in everything and always will as long as it's available and keeps performing.
@@williamwallace9620 It is great stuff. Worth every penny. I've never had a carb gum up either and I'm not real good about running them dry in the winter either! I do run ethanol free gas, but the stabilizer in it is good. Once upon a time Amsoil said it still met the two stroke spec (of that time) even when mixed at 300:1 when they were testing it before offering it for sale. But they didn't think anyone would believe it, so they labeled it 100:1.
Now that was a good test.Ive always run Stihl HP non synthetic in my Stihls and others.Been a dirt biker my whole life and run Kawi racing oil non synthetic 2 STR.Friend of mine used to use Homelite chainsaw oil in his dirt bike with no problems.Its what he had being a small engine mechanic.Gee guess I'm goin to try to use up some of that Kawi oil and snowmobile oil.Thank you😃 Tom (chainsaw rescuer)
The main difference between the oils is how the work at lower temperatures, like at idle. They're both premium oils, they're just engineered to do their best work in different environments.
I always use Pennzoil premium synthetic blend marine oil for my two cycle motors, no problems at all! As long it meets TC-W3 requierements, They will work fine! What i recommend is to use synthetic blend oil or full. (Marine).
Always use Lucas smoke les two stroke oil and have done for the last 30 years Never an issue but it aint cheap I just rate Lucas oils All the best from the U.K. !!
Be sure to compare the API specifications in each container for comparison. I am a 57 year auto tech and worked also in my uncle's small engine shop as well. I also taught 6 years in high schools (auto) and 28 years in a Community College (automotive service).
The reason you shouldn’t use marine 2 stroke oil in your air cooled 2 strokes has nothing to do with rpm differences instead it’s all to do with the heat at which each engine runs. Air cooled 2 strokes run wayyyy hotter. You’ll increase the probability that you’ll burn up an air cooled engine up running marine 2 stroke in one and you’ll foul the marine engine running air cooled 2t oils.
That's not true. the difference between the two oils is additional additives to the marine oil to inhibit moisture corrosion. Otherwise, they are pretty much the same stuff as any 2-stroke oil. In all likelihood, it is better to run marine oil in lawn equipment than plain 2-stroke oil for that reason. Many marine 2-stroke oils say right on the label they are good for motorcycles, weed eaters, leaf blowers and other air cooled 2-stroke engines. That's not hard at all to find.
I can't imagine there's much difference between them. They are both specifically for 2 cycle engines. A much longer test would be required in my opinion and then there would be too many variables to make a good conclusion. Now for a quicker test, try using the high end brand 2 cycle oil against say a Walmart brand 4 cycle crankcase oil. If the wallyworld oil won't burn up an engine, we are being played.
They are much different oils because outboard engines are WATER COOLED, not air cooled, and thus never get above 200 degrees. These chainsaws can get as high as 350 to 400 on the head and TCW3 will break down at high temps like that.
We're all being played. There's another RUclipsr who has tested this extensively. Simple SAE 30 oil works just as well and the truth is that it was what they used before 2 stroke oil was ever a thing. Even most two stroke oils are basically SAE30 oil with dyes added to give them different fancy colours. Most people are happy to pay more for the expensive 2 stroke oil because they think it's protecting their engines more. The truth, I suspect is that it doesn't. As long as you get the mix ratios right your two stroke will probably run just fine.
Best two stroke oil is pennzoil or havoline! Been using for 28 years still have saws running never been rebuilt. Both are all purpose, use same thing in my boat.
I've been wondering the same 🤔thing. I would be nice if you knew a tree service company you trusted to carry on this experiment for about a week or two of heavy use. Thanks for sharing 🤠
They are much different oils because outboard engines are WATER COOLED, not air cooled, and thus never get above 200 degrees. These chainsaws can get as high as 350 to 400 on the head and TCW3 will break down at high temps like that. If she would use these chainsaws for a season THEN look into the cylinder, she'd see the chainsaw number 2's cylinder would be toast.
@@airplanedude419possibly at 50.1 50.1 is to thin even with the Gucci oils. A 2 stroke is a 2 stroke. They bamboozled everyone into paying with the it's made different for different temps. Bullshit... newer 2 cycles say run 50.1 because of pressure from the EPA. Run all your 2 strokes 32.1 and they will be fine and any 2 cycle oil
Hello, I enjoy your videos. I wanted to say that my dad used to repair small engines and equipment when I was young. I'm now 63 so much has changed in the lubrication market. He would not use marine oil only because he was unsure how the viscosity of the marine oil would fair in an air-cooled engine. Boat motors run so much cooler since the cylinders are water jacketed as opposed to an air-cooled engine where the cylinders run much hotter. There is no engineering study's behind my father's thoughts. Just a normal concern... Keep up the good work.
Per Google's Gemini: Differences between Marine and Garden Equipment 2-Cycle Oils: 1. Certification and Additives: The primary difference lies in certification. Marine 2-cycle oils typically meet the NMMA TC-W3 standard, formulated for water-cooled outboard motors operating in saltwater environments. This standard emphasizes: Anti-corrosion additives: To resist saltwater's corrosive effects on engine components. Low ash formulation: To minimize spark plug fouling and exhaust port deposits in water-cooled engines that often operate for extended periods at both low and high RPMs. Garden equipment oils, often JASO FD certified, prioritize: High lubricity: To withstand the high temperatures and friction in air-cooled high RPM engines. Detergent and dispersant additives: To control combustion chamber deposits including from ash. (Ash is the dry solids produced by the combustion process.) 2. Using Marine Oil in Portable Equipment: While technically possible, using marine oil in air-cooled equipment is generally not recommended. The low ash content, crucial for marine engines when running at slow speeds, may not provide sufficient lubrication for high-friction, high-temperature garden equipment. Oils for air-cooled motors contain additives that purposely produce a controlled amount of ash of a type that improves lubricity after all the wet oil has burned off. Not having this dry lubricant can increase wear and tear, leading to premature engine failure. 3. Combustion Chamber Deposits and Temperature: Prolonged operation at high temperatures can accelerate deposit formation. The key lies in maintaining proper operating temperature. Both marine and garden equipment oils are formulated to control deposits WITHIN THEIR RESPECTIVE OPERATING TEMPERATURE RANGES. 4. High Ash and Lubricity: High ash content can improve lubricity to an extent. However, excessive ash can: Increase spark plug fouling, leading to ignition problems. Contribute to exhaust port blockage, reducing engine performance. Therefore, modern oils prioritize balanced formulations that offer adequate lubrication without sacrificing other performance aspects. 5. Synthetic Oils and Universal Applicability: Synthetic oils generally offer several advantages, including: Improved high-temperature performance compared to conventional mineral oils. Enhanced resistance to wear and tear. Reduced deposit formation. While some universal synthetic oils claim suitability for both marine and air-cooled applications, it's crucial to consult your equipment manufacturer's recommendations. Not all universal oils may meet the specific needs of marine or garden equipment. Conclusion: While both marine and garden equipment use 2-cycle oils, their specific formulations cater to the unique operating environments of each application. Using the appropriate oil ensures optimal performance, longevity, and protection for your machinery.
I used my 29 year (1994) grass/brush trimmer for the first time this year. It started right up with no issues. I did a good amount of trimming, & it ran perfectly! I must admit the Echo Speed Feed head is awesome! Been using one for a couple years now, because of this channel. I currently have 4 chainsaws (two were given to me from my dad). They are 1995, 2000, 2004, & 2005 models. I never replaced a 2-stroke piece of equipment. I own 72 acres of woods & cut firewood. My stuff gets used. Two of the above five items require a 40:1 mix. I mix one gallon of non-ethanol gas at a time to keep it fresh for pretty much everything. I find a 40:1 mix works well for everything I own (McCulloch, Poulan, Husqvarana, & Jonsered). I am not loyal to any brand. For years, I just used Poulan 2-stroke oil, but I buy whatever seems affordable. I would never buy those 2.6 ounce/50:1 oil containers. I would rather use a cheaper 2-stroke oil at a 40:1 ratio than an expensive oil at 50:1 ratio. A little extra oil is better in my opinion! If I ever have something fail, I may change my mind. I see no need to buy/use Marine oil when other affordable options exist. Marine engines tend to run cooler (water cooled), & I feel the differences in the oil may be justified.
I think the only difference is the ash content. Marine oil doesn’t have ash in it, so if you are 40:1 mix marine at 32:1. But Im gonna run a synthetic in mine. Im a nut with my oil. The extra cost in my mind is worth it
I was told years ago that the use of Lawnboy 2 cycle oil could not be used in trimmers and chainsaws due to rpm differences. The oil didn't have the required additives for the higher rpms. The marine oil may be a different story. Great experiment!!!!!
They are much different oils because outboard engines are WATER COOLED, not air cooled, and thus never get above 200 degrees. These chainsaws can get as high as 350 to 400 on the head and TCW3 will break down at high temps like that.
Been running Quicksilver(Mercury Marine) oil in my saws for years and decades. Lol I think the gallon of oil may go bad before the piston rings and walls will. 😆
It may have been a 'preexisting' condition but .... I had a Stihl 066 chainsaw purchased used. In the early fall I had some marine mixed gasoline/oil left over from the boating season. I used the marine oil in the Stihl and it burned up and I had to have it rebuilt. Don't use anything but the recommended 2 cycle oil now and have had not troubles.
I am a big fan of using the recommended oil for a machine. Some of my tools are close to forty years old and still running fine. Granted they are only used for my personal use.
@@twistedhillbilly6157 I had machines that ran on 16 to 1...32 to 1 and most recently 50 to 1. My point was that I followed the manufacturers directions and my tools had a long life.
@@bobhumphries3998 Were specialty oils recommended 40 years ago? We ran blenzall in our motorcycles but not because it was recommended.. Everything I have from the 80's or earlier just said use 2 stroke or chainsaw oil.. all this manufacturer specialty nonsense is fairly new.. MY point is: a 40 year old machine did NOT recommend a 50 to 1 mix so it is impossible for your story to be true..
I’ve worked as a car mechanic aircraft mechanic and own a 550B John Deere Dozer so I became a save your money diesel mechanic as well a small engine repair man? I have learned a lot from you and told my fellow half ass mechanic friends. They enjoyed your website too and found it very informative not to mention a pretty lady, not afraid to break a fingernail we all look forward to the next topic great work look forward to many more topics 😊 Jim Freeport LI NY
note 1: at the beginning.. trust me from an old tech, you are going to eventually hate yourself for whacking the scrench handles (and other tools) like that with the palm of your hand when you get older! I'm only 55, but my hands (the all important hands) these days are seriously paying for a lifetime of smacking ratchets, screnches, wrenches like that.
Thanks for Watching! Find a link to all of my "Must Have", Favorite Tools HERE!! www.amazon.com/shop/chickanic?ref_=cm_sw_r_cp_ud_aipsfshop_aipsfchickanic_9ERPFPBNGQ924P8NS63B
Mottul 710 ok oil for cheinsaw
Those temperature guns are very handy, but can also be deceiving. The area they measure is much (MUCH) larger than the little red dot. Comparing it to that IR camera I saw you with might be quite informative. Also the temperature they read has a lot to do with emissivity. Take two engines, polish the metal on one of them, then measure both with your temperature gun and you will read quite a difference in temperature. Using a contact thermometer you will find they are actually the same. We used to stone commutators and slip rings when they would show to be too hot. The "temperature" would immediately drop, drastically. When you compared the temperature to the mass it was obvious that the copper couldn't cool that quickly. The shiny copper (from polishing) had a lower emissivity, so it read cooler.
Contact the Motor Oil Geek on RUclips
Hi Bri, I was an automatic transmission engineer that designed and developed automatics for 35 years. I'm also a small engine mechanic hobbiest that have repaired over 10,000 small engines. Anyway, when I worked at Chrysler I got involved with new ATF programs for our transmissions and had several meetings with our oil additive suppliers. Anyway we talked extensively about 2 cycle oil additive packages just for my own interest. They told me that the air cooled oils contains ash in it and it's not used in marine applications due to fouling issues of the plug at idle since many boaters troll with their outboard motors. Ash content is very durable for high speed and high temp 2 stroke applications especially when mixing at 50:1. They told me marine oils are fine for air cooled motors if you just run it richer at like 32:1 or 40:1. I always use marine oil at 32:1 for my chainsaws and blowers and have never had a problem. The additive suppliers also said that any TCW3 is fine because they have to pass the same tests as any other oil which is the 70 hp Evinrude motor run for 100 hours at 4000 rpms mixed at 100:1. Therefore I buy the cheap Supertech 2 cycle oil from Walmart. The only difference is the smell may be a little different however performance is the same. So the moral of the story is you are correct. If spending big dollars for high tech oil is your thing, then do it. However if you run marine 2 cycle oil just run it a little richer for your air cooled 2 strokes. BTW I run my outboard at 40:1.
Thank you for sharing this insight
Agreed, thank you!
How do you convert from a 50:1 mixture to a 40:1 mixture per gallon of gas if I want to buy the Marine oil by the gallon. How many ounces of marine 2 cycle oil to one gallon of gas to make it 40 :1 Thanks
@@ToyotaTacoma-js6on All you need to remember is that a gallon is 128 oz. For any mix, just divide by the ratio. (While that is not 100% true, it is as close as you need to be.)
Or, even a little rougher, but close enough: 2.6 oz ~ 50:1; 3oz ~ 40:1; 4oz ~ 32:1; 5oz ~ 25:1
Thanks for your help
I enjoyed the oil video immensely. Many years ago in the mid sixties I was an engineer working for Kawasaki and later for Yamaha. The oil question was a frequent topic of conversation between all of us in the R&D departments. Back then there were few true 2 stroke oils that were specifically designed for air cooled racing engines. If you were racing a very high performance 2 stroke engine Castor oils held up quite well compared to the average 4 stroke oils that most people would use. Castor oil worked exceptionally well except that the piston and rings were very fouled with carbon deposits. 4 stroke oils were marginal at best. They had to be run at 20 to 1 ratio so they smoked a lot and didn’t produce the best results. With the development of specialized 2 stroke racing oils things became much better for the racing engines. The street legal bikes had a system of oil injection that worked fairly well and it had some amount of adjustment to get a better blend. It wasn’t until Torco developed its 2 stroke injection oil called Power Stroke that the automated injection system became more effective. It was a 40 to 1 ratio for normal riding and 32 to 1 for racing purposes. It was definitely a game changer in engine reliability and very low carbon deposits. For us racers we were in heaven until various other manufacturers developed higher performance oils that we gladly accepted and put to use.
Today I use the Stihl little bottles because they are convenient and if I buy a new piece of equipment from Stihl and a 6 pack of their oil they automatically double my warranty. I have never needed the additional warranty but it feels better to have it.
I applaud your side by side testing because you have proven a fairly well known option of engineers that oils that have a manufacturer approval rating are all going to do a pretty good job if used properly.
A little aside is that I use full synthetic oils in all of my road vehicles because of the greater heat protection. It is quite possible that I will never need the extra protection but I am in my 70’s now and I don’t want to do any maintenance on any of my equipment unless absolutely necessary.
I do love your style of sharing your gained knowledge in a useful and informative way. Bravo.
Best Regards Al Hartley
I loved the smell of castor oil in a 2 stroke motorcycle engine. It had a sweet smell, not like the chemical smell of todays oils.
As a Grand Master Marine Tech for 48 years: Marine oil (TCWIII--- thermostatically controlled water cooled) has a lower flash point to burn cleanly in an outboard. High flash point oils will slowly gum up over extended periods, such as trolling for hours on end, because your engine won't run hot enough to burn them cleanly. If you're a go faster that runs wot all the time it won't make a difference. You don't idle your chain saw for three hours like you would an outboard.
I worked in the bush my whole life and owned every make of saws .I owned my own logging company for years .I started in the logging industry we I was 18 and bucked 100 cords of 8 foot of poplar wood a day for years ,2 guys behind a grapple 528 cat skidder. Now I am 57 and still cut fire wood every day. I have even used motor oil as mix oil at times but shaking the jug before you use it .I learned this from a guy that had an allergy from the 2 stroke smoke, so he had to use motor oil and he cut lots of wood and no problems.in the old days my dad would take the inside out of the muffler for more power and remove every brake it had .he worked in the logging industry for 65 years .
Old timers used to run a mix of straight 30 weight oil mixed in their gas, like 30:1, and use the same on in the bar oiler in old saws, with no problem. I’m talking up until the 80s.
seagul outboards specify 30/40 motor oil for 2 stroke , smells worse and chokes more than 2 stroke oil in my opinion
Tell him to run Klotz Suoer techniplate at 32 or 40:1. Smells like the racetrack.
@@GT-mn3bx Klotz works well for race use but gums everything up in non-race applications.
Before they came out with dedicated two stroke oil that's what it called for
Engine oil+gas for premix
Been running Amsoil synthetic 100 to 1 in all my chain saws, blowers and weed eaters for 40 years and have never had any issues. Also ran it in my in my Mercury 150 hp XR2 for years with no issues. 👍🤷🏻♂️
What ratio of oil per gallon do you mix and is the oil outboard oil?
@@buddylove4882 in all my chain saws, weed eaters and blowers I use the Amsoil Saber professional synthetic 2 stroke oil. 1.5 FL oz. makes 100 to 1 in a gallon of gas. I normally put a little over 9/10s of gas to one pack of oil. In my 150 hp XR2 i used the amsoil infector oil in it being it was oil injected. I got it in 2.5 gallon jugs. My new outboard motor is 4 cycle so I don’t have to worry about mixing the gas and oil. But the injector oil was designed for oil injected outboard engines. Hope this helps. The Saber works very well in 2 stroke dirt bikes also.
@@davidbaker1359 that^s a big 10-4. It just dawned on me though that that brand is highly regaurded and may very well be pricey.
@@buddylove4882 yes but I’ve fouled a plug or had any issues with over heating. I fished 25 tournaments a year with the XR2 and it still had the same plugs in it I bought it with. I fished with that boat for about 6 years like that. The same goes for all my other equipment, I’ve never changed a plug in any of them. I retired as a Aircraft mechanic after 42 years and synthetic oil is the only thing that will take the heat of a jet engine without breaking down under the heat. It cost more but you get a lot more out of it for sure.
@@davidbaker1359 oh you^re the man no doubt. Well i^m just of recently become a carburetor mechanical engineer(lol),if you will because I learned from the best.Chicanic and The Lawnmower Lady gave me my degree and with yor oil I can got over the top.
I own a lawn business with 185 yards and I switched from the little bottles 10 years ago to quart bottles of Lucas 2 cycle oil and have never had any problems. Just a lot more money in my pocket from not buying the over priced little bottles. Thanks for the videos!!
I love the lucas semi synthetic at 40:1 I have no issues doing lawn and tree service full time
@@markhatcher4325 that very cheap oil I wouldn't put it in a moped it not going last long take from me go with sthil in orange bottle 2-stroke oil bar oil
@@14firewooddirtysouth 🏁🇺🇸Lucas🇺🇸🏁
Folks, Tractor Supply carries Lucas.
@@14firewooddirtysouthLucas is a decent brand
I own 2 Stihl chain saws, 2 string trimmers ( FS55 FS91) and 2 blowers BR450 and hand held and have used Marine 2 stroke oil for 30 years and everything still works fine.
I have been using Motomix from Stihl for about twenty years. The equipment runs cleaner and it doesn't gum up when sitting for an extended period. It also has a shelf-life of about five years.
Motomix only has a 2 year self life
The difference is liquid cooled versus air cooled. Air cooled engines run at a wider temperature range. For motocross motorcycles the oils were formulated different when liquid cooling became common. I have had good results using outboard boat oil in all of my aircooled equipment. For decades.
Motul is my go to brand; cycles, boats, chainsaws....never had any problem.
@@tdgdbs1 I use Motul 800 2T Off Road but I'm willing to try marine 2-stroke oil next for garden equipment.
I like your honesty! In the old days our superwiz 66's and 55's witch was a all out commercial chainsaw at the time never gave any lubrication issues. And the instructions said to mix sae 30 weight motor oil with the gas to make your mix. It's all about emissions today and that's the reason we have to use this smokeless oil. I like this lady's out and out honesty.
In the old days we mixed 30 wt motor oil to whatever the ration was the the OEM recommended. It did not matter if it was air-cooled or water cooled.
Those engines didn't turn 13,000 RPM's
I'm an old guy too, and remember a Dirt Bike Magazine article from the 70's saying 'in a pinch' you could just pre-mix any automotive oil...but like Jason pointed out, these machines didn't have the proformance of modern 2 strokes.
@@dougirvin2413 I'm a old guy too LOL
I am an old guy too. As I remember it, 30-weight non-detergent oil was actually the recommended oil to use. They later came out with the special 2-cycle oil. As I said I am old so my memory could be wrong.
@Jason Busch you are correct sir.
Message to Chickanic: Thank you so much for this video. Not only have you shown there doesn't seem to be difference between the oils, but you created a huge discussion forum on the subject. Also a thanks to all who have posted their experiences and successes. It's a real rabbit hole of information. This is what RUclips should be about.
Way back in the day, I ran Lawnboys and used outboard oil with great results. With that being said, when I moved up to using commercial Echo equipment, I continued to use outboard oil. After a few seasons, it destroyed my Echo back pack blower. (yes, it was always mixed at the proper ratio) Since then I used the old green Echo oil. Then I moved up to the Red Armor. I have used Red armor in many 2 cycle equipment with excellent results. My equipment have a lot of hours on them and still run like new. A long term study is truly the only way to make a final evaluation.
Evinrude outboard OMC made lawn Boys. OMC Sadly gone now
Echo owners manual states the warranty is void if you use anything other than an "FD" rated 2-cycle oil. It does NOT need to be Echo branded, but it must be FD rated. I like Red Armor too, I use it in my Suzuki 2-cycle powered Toro Recycler, my Toro 3650 R-Tek 2-cycle snowblower, and my Echo equipment.
@@WisconsinEricI used to have a 2 cycle toro commercial mower. I loved that mower. I had it for over 20 years.
@@WisconsinEric The Toro R-Tek, I fix those for customers and use my Red Armor when testing them. Less smoke than outboard and they run great!!!
@@frankparsley1913 My Suzuki 2-cycle Toro is actually a consumer model. It is a 1991, the very first year of Toro's Recycler. It has a cast aluminum deck with plastic "kickers", but they did not begin to call them a "Super Recycler" until 1993. Still starts from cold with a half-pull of the rope, and the 32yr old Japanese-made Suzuki still runs like new.
I’ve been running ATF in my 2 cycle trimmers, chainsaws, and hedge trimmers for the last 20 years. My trimmer is 20 years old this year. 17 years for my hedge trimmer and chainsaws. They run smooth and clean. 25:1. I just buy a quart bottle of ATF each spring, lasts me all season. Plugs always look good, and they all start right up.
@ 25:1 any oil is going to work. the chinese with their zenoah clones they sell all spec 25:1 because they sell those saws all over the world in every 3d world market and have no idea what oil people will wind up putting in them. you could use old 4 stroke oil at 25:1 and be ok. some of the old outboards speced 24:1 with 30w oil.
@@MrSGL21 Goes to show you what you DON’T know!! ATF is NOT motor oil! It’s not 20 or 30 wt. Obviously you don’t know enough to know that! You should! So you’re getting SCHOOLED! ATF is a great deal like high cost spindle oil. Also like Turbine oil (if you use synthetic!) It lubricates very well at HIGH SPEEDS! Motor oil isn’t made for high speeds (I know you have no clue!!). At 25:1 it provides superior lubrication over long terms at high speeds. ATF is thinner than 30 wt, so 25:1 is necessary.
@@wolfman007zz OK boomer.
@@MrSGL21 Such an appropriate answer from one who set out to impart “knowledge!” Remember: Boomers are the ones who gave you all you enjoy today! Your generation? Not much….
Some brands of 2 cycle oil list ethonal treatment additive in the oil. Marine engines although water cooled and therefore run cooler, operate in a much different environment. I would suspect the inlet air would have more moisture
Does this mean that the marine oil is formulated to run with intake air with higher moisture. How would this affect longer time test results
Great video! My particular experience: At one time, I was an avid snowmobile rider. Then, my back went bad, and after I sold the sleds and trailer, I had several gallons of leftover Polaris Blue snowmobile oil, from the mid-late 90's. It's mostly been an expedient, since I had so much of it, but I've been using this in all of my two strokes, some as old as 1967, no problems so far. For all my 4 strokes including cars and lawn and garden stuff I use any pure synthetic 5w/30 - 10w/30 oil made by Warren Oil Co, or Warren Distributing. Again, no problems with it so far.
Same here. I am just finishing up the last of my snowmobile oil. It's done really well in my chainsaws. Cut my first tandem load of firewood and no issues whatsoever.
I just wanted to say thanks for your videos. I'm a shade tree mechanic (journeyman autobody mechanic) and have worked on my own stuff for years. By no means an automotive expert but am pretty good at the basics. I like the way you present your topics and they are very helpful. I think the best knowledge I have gained is on ethanol in fuel. I didn't realize how it could affect so many of my tools and toys. I've used stabilizer for years and have run everything dry before end of season. But I would still use the gas from last year the next season. Also if gas was at a good price over the winter season, I would stock up (with stabilizer added) for the next season. Not going to do that anymore. Will only purchase what I can use within the appropriate timeframe. Cheaper price gas can cost me more in repairs later.
Also kudos to you for being an example to woman everywhere. For years I have said the trades needed more women. I hope you can inspire more young women to get into any trade. Keep up the great work and videos.
I have my own large storage tank. I order 93 ethanol free. It's a nickle or dime more than ethanol tainted fuel.
Stabile really has no effect. Fuel still goes bad pretty quick. Here in desert heat, the color of the fuel changes first, an a month it turns orange.
The 93 ethanol free lasts 2 years.
A guy here on RUclips has done extensive testing. He's called project farm and is easily one of the best.
Yea she is a great instructor
i have had another guy wranglerstar on youtube says to buy non ethanol fuel as well not just for storage but its better@@TheBandit7613
I have ran marine oil for years and my saws have been running fine for years, 20 years plus, but I also run my 50:1 saws at 40:1.
My dad used to run TCW3 oil from his outboards in his chainsaws. He noticed after a short period of time the saws were harder to start and were low on compression. Turns out TCW3 is not limited by the RPM, but the fact that those outboards are water cooled and operate at a MUCH lower temp than the air cooled chainsaws. Hes started using dedicated chainsaw engine oil in his chainsaws now and the problem has gone away.
If it got better, it must have just been gummed up... he was probably running 25:1 or 32:1 which is too much oil for saws but good for outboards
2 stroke outboards run around 5,000 RPM tops, chainsaws typically around 13,000 RPM plus they are air cooled vs. water cooled outboards. Outboards also do not generally suffer ‘shock’ loads like chainsaws can being occasionally stuck in a cut and stalled. Outboards generally run at constant RPMs, chainsaws do not.
Back in the mid eighties I bought a used 1979 Yamaha RD 400 Daytona Special from a customer of mine. It is a 2 cylinder 2 stroke air cooled motorcycle with oil injection, so you don't mix the oil externally.
I wanted to treat it well, so I asked him which oil he had been using in order that I can continue using the same oil. He said he used Quicksilver two stroke oil, and told me the department store he got it from.
A couple months later I burnt up the engine and brought it to the Yamaha dealer to get repaired. It needed new pistons rings and cylinders.
I asked what caused the problem and we figured out that quicksilver is a marine oil made for watercooled engines. Changing over to air cooled engine oil kept me from having oil related issues since then.
Later on, I ended up leaning it out too much and burnt a hole through the piston, but that was my own fault. One of these days I'll get it back together again.
50 1 do it thick
Most oil say both boat an chain saws .
It would probably take some super scientific long-term testing to really tell the difference, if any. Most real-world users would probably be okay either way. I'd say air filter condition can have as much or more effect on cylinder scoring. Your mileage may vary.
Thanks! Been using marine oil for years since I always have it.
It’s not the RPM difference, it’s the TEMPERATURE difference. OPE is air cooling but marine is water cooling by fresh cold water. THAT is what makes a difference and the need for a different additive package in your oil.
1
Eator came out with a two stroke air cooled boat motor like 40 years ago and I seen a boat down the road with one as a spare on his inboard outboard. I asked him it runs or its for show and said it still runs. He said his father bought it new over 40 year ago.. He said they only put about 10 hours a year for last 20 years. Before that is was his dads trolling motor for many years.. All they ever used in it was marine two stroke in it
There have been several boat engines that were air cooled and 2 cycle. So.... That statement isn't entirely true
that was gonna be my comment.
@@staind288 what part wasn't true? I didn't say they were the only makers. I just remember that one. The fact is that marine oil is not just made for liquid cooled motors and in fact it state on Catrol Marine oil that it can be used in almost any two stroke engines.. I never had a issue using marine two stroke oil in everything
Back in my Motocross days a friend and I strictly ran Castrol 2 cycle oil in a Honda Elsinore and a CZ Mx. They both lasted longer than the Guy's who used Klotz , Bel Ray and the other high dollar Oils. I think if You dig deep You'll find that Castrol refines and Bottles all that high dollar stuff that Stihl , Husqvarna and Echo sells us.
I use the castrol 2t motorcycle 2 stroke oil , it's blue and I was taught that by watching Bucking Billy on you tube , ge showed on the old stihl bottles the name Castroil wax there and the showed that mix with the stihl mix and it looks the same and the bottle says it's OK to use and it's cheaper by the quart.
It's like motor oil walmart, atwoods, tractor supply, don't refine oil they all buy it from somewhere, just like stihl Harley, and everyone who makes money selling oil with thier name on the bottle.
I raced boats a longtime, built our own engines. The engine ran 9200 rpm, we used over twice the normal oil ratio. Old school needle bearings required more oil at such high rpm
2.5 Bridgeport Mercury outboard racing 9000 rpm v6.
I did this also and Motocross racing RM250 ran 32:1 Belray.
@@Nudnik1 we ran modified outboard hydros
@@Nudnik1 if you ever run across Kevin Nichols, he's a good friend
@@independentthinker8930 offshore APBA 24ft superboat
every 2 cycle ANYTHING I've had apart has needle bearings for wrist pin and crank...
As a 40 year marine mechanic TCW 3 oil has been formulated for water cooled marine engines that run under 160 deg and 6000 RPM The third generation has been made to combat ring sticking due to carbon caused by todays pump gas. When the oil company's started selling reformulated gas back in the mid to late 1980's we had expensive engine failures left and right due to this problem, so the engine manufactures came up with an additive package hence the tcw1 was born. In years past we are up to the third gen. TCW3. Running marine oil for the short term may not hurt but air cooled engines run at much higher temps and RPM's and approved oils are formulated to run those conditions.
Excellent 👍
Mad Respect from Oshawa Canada. We just got all our snowplows & equipment put to bed for the summer.
Now because we put our grass equipment to bed the correct way, EVERY one of them started on the 1st pull.
Thanks for all the advice & direction you've given us all over the years. I'm just a back yard mechanic (mechanically inclined) & I keep equpiment running for 2 landscape companies. Thx to Chick, these guys think I'm a miracle worker!
😊
Great videos and interesting content. The main difference between marine two stroke oil and yard equipment oil is that marine oil is biodegradeable and less polluting for use in more sensitive areas, marine oil is top grade and meant for engines up to 300 hp so it will more than work in a small engine and it is sold in larger amounts to fill up the oil tanks in modern oil injected outboards, I have a tiny Honda generator that uses 100/1mix and it calls for marine two stroke and so I just use it in everything with no issues.
Not all. Only the ones that use vegetable oils. The name usually starts with Bio something..And I'm not really happy with the results or test methods. Only >80 biodegradable in the specific test parameters. So temp, weather, soil, amounts, on ground, animal life, etc. I think it's just a selling point. My opinion as a mechanic
Polaris had problems years ago trying to use one oil in their ATV's Snowmobiles and Watercraft. Outboard oil has more detergents where air cooled small engine oil has more tackyness to stick to crank bearings and stuff at high RPM's. Outboard oil will eventually take the crank bearings out on a chainsaw especially one that revs high RPM's. I also had a 2005 Yamaha Zuma moped that had been ran on Klotz full synthetic 2 cycle oil since new that had 30,000+ miles on it and had never had a wrench laid on the engine except to clean the carbon from the muffler and change the belt. Had the original sparkplug replaced at 26,000 miles. Sold it and it still had excellent compression and ran excellent had never been rebuilt. Most mopeds don't make 10,000 miles.
I just put a comment up about this and that was the death of my Echo PB 710.
Thanks. kind of answers my questions. tho, i've never grasped reasoning or meaning of "detergents" usage. 'tacky' (word) takes heat, not build up? but i get it, no detergent. haha
@@kareno8634 detergents clean to keep carbon buildup in check due to lower operating temperature because they are usually liquid cooled. Also they do not usually rev over 8000-9000 RPM.
@@jasonbusch3624 Thanks!
@@kareno8634 your welcome
Hey im glad I found this video. I own a landscaping business and 1 season in a pinch used 2 cycle marine oil. Followed the 50:1 mix instructions and 4 seasons later still use it in all my echo trimmers and back packs with out any issue. The first season I used the marine 2 cycle I had sthil trimmers and packs and haven't yet moved to echo. Disclaimer the sthil equipment was already 7 seasons deep and on their way out. Me and my crews absolutely beat the shit outta the echos due to number of accounts we have but they seem to me to be more durable and the echos were brand new when I started using marine 2 cycle and all echo equipment run with out fail with obvious normal maintenance weekly. Marine is cheaper and has yet to be a bad decision using it all my 2 cycle equipment
Echo is more durable. My buddy used to run a huge landscaping company with dozens of crews. They switched everything from Stihl to Echo and saw a significant decrease in issues.
About 20 years ago I bought a box of 2 cycle snowmobile oil in about 1 quart bottles. I think there was about 10 bottles. I ran all of it thru chainsaws, string trimmers, 2 cycle cultivators and a couple lawnboy push mowers. Never had an engine seize or die or show any signs of damage beyond the usual fuel lines and carb kits that these 2 cycles seem to like
Snowmobiles turn higher RPM's than outboards
I bought 12 gallons of Arctic Cat snow mobile oil in 01’ at a Michigan snow show. We and my wife’s family were running 6 sleds at that time. When my wife stopped paying for their sled gas, my oil stash seemed last forever. I still have 5 gallons new and 1 open. My Stihl’s have run it for 20 years. And I work for a Stihl dealer and sell Stihl gear.
I have an Echo SRM 2601 trimmer and an Echo TCM 2100 tiller. Both are over 20 years old. I've always used marine oil in both 32:1. I have rebuilt the carburators once on each of them, replaced several primer bulbs. Other than that they always start by the third pull and run great. I'm also a residential user with 3 acres of grass.
Grass forever.
My dad has been a small engine mechanic all his life. From chainsaws, lawnmowers, snowmobiles, atv's, to outboard motors, he's worked on it all. Anyway, when I was a kid the marina he worked at gave him a great deal on all parts and accessories. Well he would always buy me their cheaper brand 2 stroke outboard engine oil for my old snowmobile (250cc single cylinder Ski-doo Elan), and I ran gallons of that stuff through my machine and put on millions of miles and never had a problem with the engine.
I was at a seminar on two stroke oils at a college a few years ago and they stated that the marine oil was a higher grade of oil than regular two stroke oil. They stated their is a reason marine oil is more money.. Marine oil was always made to me run in the gas or oil injected but regular two stroke oil was not plus marine oil had additives in it for water plus it was more environmentally friendly oil compared to regular two stroke because a lot of the marine engine dump the exhausted into the water... Anyways I was always told that if you use marine oil in your trimmer you are just waisting your money as marine oil is way more money then the cheap regular two stroke oil.. I bought a skid of merc quicksilver oil many years ago when a marina closed it's doors and auctioned everything. I was using it in everything for years and never had issues with it. I used that oil in snow machine, the mix gas type and oil injected type. I used it in liquid cooled dirt bikes and oil injected street bikes and oil injected golf carts and chainsaws, quick cut and grass trimmers and I have never had a problem with any motor. If it's on sale and cheaper then regular two stroke oil I will buy it before the regular oil any day
I find that Schaeffer’s Supreme 7000 TC-W3 marine oil is actually less expensive than a lot of the FD rated two cycle oil. I run it 32:1 in my chainsaws. The combustion chambers and exhaust ports are clean as a whistle.
I heard marine oil was superior years ago and have been using it regularly in 32:1 engines. Never had a problem.
Yep, years ago I sold a outboard 2cycle boat and had many quarts of marine 2 cycle oil in the garage. I have been using it in my blower, weed wacker, tiller and old dirt bike for years and have NO oil issues. Mix around 32to1 .
I have been using the same Arctic Cat 2cycle snowmobile fuel mix oil for 20+ years In everything. I bought 4 cases of 4 gallons each at a snow show for family vacation use. And still have plenty. My Stihl’s work fine.
I've heard it has something to do with marine engines often running cool because they always take in cool water, thus needing better lubricvation. Might just be an old wives tale
Great content! We need to see long term, multi-gallon and multi season oil use in order to determine effectiveness of the different oils. They will all perform satisfactorily during short duration usage.
I was thinking the same,a longer test time. Say maybe a week of 50 hours of work,or a month of 200 or more hours of cutting trees, small limbs to see what they look like then.
I agree with you! Got to love a knowledgeable woman!
I have a Poulan 220 chainsaw that I’ve had for 21 years. I had to replace fuel lines, clutch, bar, spark plug, and glue the bolts that hold the bar tight, but it still starts up easily and runs great.
I’ve used various brands of 2 cycle oil over the years. I really don’t think it matters all that much what brand as long as there is actually some oil mixed in the fuel.
I’ll make bet that you use 40:1 !
Your experiment was very interesting. 👍
Of my 2 stroke equipment: I have a 42 year old Homelite chainsaw, a 30 year old Craftsman blower and a 25 year old Royobi string trimmer. All have had Walmart 2 stroke marine oil all their lives. Never had any problems. So, the cheap oil is fine for those pieces.
However, I also have late model ECHOs: 4910 CS, 2511CS and a 225 string trimmer. All bought
I've seen testing of Walmart oil. It worked fine. They even sent in samples for lab testing. There really isn't any bad oil left out there.
What Ratio and oil type ?
@@shannonwhitaker9630 I go by manufacturer’s instructions. My newer ECHOs use 50:1, My 30 year old Craftsman blower uses 40:1 and my 42 year old Homelite chainsaw uses 30:1.
Just wondering because Wal-Mart has carried and carries different lines of dedicated Marine oil as well as “Multi-use” Marine oil.
@@shannonwhitaker9630 From my experience and what I've read, you can use marine oil in a chainsaw or other non marine engine for a short period of time. There's a small risk of damaging the engine if you use it long term. I found an old quart of marine oil that my Dad had. used it with no issue. Went back to using regular 2 stroke oil. Here's a video with a very good layman's explanation: ruclips.net/video/AlmegbfUJpU/видео.html
You probably have been told before---I was an auto mechanic for 50 year career. One word of caution - fuel on bare skin- I have cronic lymphcitic leukemia, almost certainly from fuel exposure to bare skin & poorly venilated inhalation exposure to raw fuel. I am 72 years old & I very much enjoy your videos. Keep up the good work!!
Thank you and well done. For years I have used Amzoil Sabre 100:1 on boats, mowers, motorcycles, weedeaters(1 ounce per gallon ) paying around $47-$50. a gallon much less expensive per gallon ( 1ounce compared to 2.5 ounces per gallon) than premium priced oils with good results.Longevity of equipment is a good bonus.
I’m a firm proponent of Amsoil products. I sell a lot of their 100:1 outboard oil for the two stroke outboard customers (except the really old stuff with plain bearings). I’ve YET to have a complaint from my customers, or get a report that their engines are suffering by running a leaner oil mix. Their Sabre line of power equipment oil is a favorite amongst the lawn and garden folks. If they run everything at 80:1, they don’t have issues or failures.
100:1 is terrible for wear and long term life.. Satisfies the no smoke crowd though. We run a bank of 10 identical engines side by side and anything over 10,000 RPM will last longer at 32:1.
@@GT-mn3bx While this is true for stuff such as chainsaws, outboard motors generally never get over 5500 rpm. If they wind them up tighter than that, it's likely they'll scatter. The Amsoil Sabre is designed to run lean mixtures. I've yet to have any outdoor power equipment customers tell me it shortened the life on their equipment running it at 80:1. Did you do your testing with the Sabre, or any other synthetics?
As a kid, 1958, I had never seen "2 cycle oil". Only two strokes I was exposed to were outboards. Dad had a horse and half as well a 5 HP. He used regular motor oil in the fuel. 24:1 ratio. Used a small Cocola bottle to measure oil. I think it was a six oz. bottle. Side note: some oil actually came in glass jars at the time and had a spout that would screw on. I never recall even a fouled plug. The 1.5 came over on the Mayflower. Largest outboard I recall at the time was either 33 or 35 HP. Neighbor had two strapped on his boat. A monster at the time. I enjoy this ladies programs so much.
As long as the oils have the same rating there is no difference, but Marine oil has a detergent in it to breakdown in water, so the manifold does not block. (Water is mixed with the exhaust) as well as disperse oil into the water so it does not form a slick. Marine engines also can run at over 100 to 1 mix, so their oil has a high API standard.
Not all outboard are water cooled though
Newer outboards are 4 stroke and if they are 2 stroke air cooled……..its in the vintage market….a tiny fraction.
@@foxlake6750 you can say it’s a tiny fraction, and maybe in some areas it is, but out where I live old motors are the norm. Lots of 25hp Johnson’s out on the lakes still.
I have an old mercury 250 snowmobile 1970 that my dad bought new , any way in the owners manual it specifically says to use mercury quicksilver oil in it that is outboard oil , my dad use to mix 1 16 Oz bottle quicksilver oii to five gallon of gas as I also do , never had to rebuild the moter and to this day it runs great
@@staind288 Yes they are. The only air cooled outboards are the ones with briggs and stratton engines on them which are 4 strokes.
Used Pennzoil marine in my Toro trimmer for years. Never thought about there would be different 2 cycle oil. Never caused a problem that I know of.
Great content. I've raced 2 strokes for years, 2 stroke street bikes in the 80's, jet skis also and have tried them all. I also use chainsaws etc for work. The VP 94 premix I like. I also use left over 110 race gas with MX oil. Oakland Rentals uses Amsoil on their tools and thinks it's the best. It seems to me that any high quality oil works fine just don't store Ethanol fuel in whatever you run.
Great test Bre. I enjoy your show, and I learn a lot from your experience.
I used to run Itasca and/or Pennzoil synthetic TCW-3 oil in my outboards. I deleted the oil injection and ran a 40:1 ratio, since I was spinning the engines above their normal RPM range. Never had an oil related problem.
Since I sold my last boat, I had a bunch of that oil left over, which I now run in my 2-stroke small engines.
I run those at 25:1, as I've found the richer oil mixture actually reduces carbon buildup and helps prevent ring sticking.
I do generally have to adjust the carbs a little richer, as the oil displaces some of the fuel and leans the A/F ratio.
I haven't had any trouble with plug fouling either.
It would be fun to see long term how saw 1 and saw 2 hold up if you continue the experiment.
I wonder if Project Farm has done a similar test using his testing techniques? It might mater what environment the 2-cycle device is being used in. Like these 2 saws, they saw very little usage between seasons or if its a commercial operation using the saws for hours a day, everyday. IMHO, air-cooled engines should run hotter than a marine engine with a water jacket. That means there might be some temperature related processes happening in one oil that might not happen with the other oil and vice-versa.
And run the saw with the beginnings of cylinder scoring at 50:1 rather than 42:1
Problem is those poulans are known for not holding up under any conditions.
Yes Im old enough to remember when Poulans were good........ but that was decades ago and now when we say Poulan we just mean another Chinesse saw.
@@banshee8989I was thinking the Poulan Pro line is made with/by Husqvarna or the same conglomerate owns both lines.
Just ran across this video today and find it very interesting... Years ago I used to run race boats with the high performance Mercury 2.5/ 260 horsepower offshore race outboards which would generally top out between 7,000 and 10,000 RPM and the oil I always ran in those was the Mercury Quicksilver premium Plus mixed at 32 to 1 and since I have so much of that oil around that's what I have been using in all My chainsaws and weed wackers and leaf blowers ever since and have never had an issue with carbon buildup or abnormal wear in anything...
Years ago we used marine 2 stroke oil in a Lawn Boy mower. The only issue that arose was carbon buildup in the exhaust port.
Those old LawnBoy 2-stroke mowers always carboned up! 😁
I use marine oil on all my 2 stroke cheaper in long run.
In the 60's used always 30W motor oil and in those days 25/1 was the norm in ratio of oil.
Still use whatever oil just mix a little more oil if your worried if does proper lubrication.
Boat motor or motorcycle with oil injection if injection system plugs up just mix oil in gasoline no problem that way.
I myself prefer mixing oil myself seen to many oil injection system plug up or not metering properly.
When I was kid in the early 70’s we ran Bultaco 250 Matador e we itch 30w. Our dads set us kids up with how to mix and made sure we knew to slosh the tank a few times before starting it cold. We never had issues with fuel and went on all day trail rides every weekend for years.
I've been using that supertech two cycle motorboat oil in my 2 smokers for over a half century now ..I've got a Stihl 028AV I've run the hell out of it using Walmart outboard oil in it all of its life and it still specs out new internally and she still looks like she's hardly been used even though it's got thousands of hours on it ... The older version container labels on the Walmart two-cycle outboard oil from about 10 or 15 years ago had pictures suggesting you could use it in chainsaws snowmobiles and of course watercraft like jet skis and waverunners ... Last year I bought up a bunch of the Pennzoil Platinum synthetic outboard oil because it was actually cheaper than the super tech I've used a gallon and a half of it so far in everything from my micro limbing saws to my Stihl 066 and 088 and so far so good👍
Same with my dad has a old 1976 homelite that he's been running super tech and before that he ran pamida brand outboard 2 cycle oil in it for longer than I've been alive that's over 30 years still runs like new cut over a cord every year
I hear you my brother.
SAME HERE. Supertech marine oil in the mercury outboard........ and in all my lawn equipment, for years. Never had any problem that I could trace back to the oil.
Have a Stihl 041AV that I bought new in 1977 that I only ran Lawnboy Oil @ a 25:1 ratio up to about six years ago when I went to Red Armor in all of my other twenty seven pieces of 2 cycle equipment. Don't know how many cords of wood this saw has cut, but it still runs and cuts like new. However due to its' weight and hard pull starting for these seventy five year arthritic shoulders, it only gets started and run for a few minutes twice a year.
Good morning all.
Yesterday was oil and filter changes on five of my gas engines. One truck, one car, the rider, the tiller, and the power washer. I got so carried away that after watching this I may change my two stroke oil too.
I'm having a bit of trouble finding the drain plugs
The drainplug on a 2 stroke is on top of the round thingy... Beer is required to remove it..
You should get a copy of the tcw3 test procedures it has a section on a air-cooled 50cc engine that they block off the air-cooled part to test how well it works in an extreme condition
Ha!
I've been using 2 cycle outboard oil for decades. I didn't know it was frowned upon. I'm always learning !! Great experiment.
The thing you should be looking for is a JASO FD rating on the oil bottle, thats a specification for small air cooled engines like chainsaws and trimmers. Some marine oil has it and some does not.
Remember, oil is cheap and engines are expensive. There are plenty of oils sold in big containers at affordable prices which are actually meant for chainsaws.
Agree; look for the JASO FD rating. Lucas 2 stroke has it & is about $35/gal. Valvoline Marine is about that same price. Red Armor (no doubt, a great oil) is about $68. I switched to Lucas over a year ago & my 2-strokes have been running great.
@@ackack1 it's also worth noting that a gallon of 2 cycle oil makes over 40 gallons of mixed fuel, which for the average homeowner is practically a lifetime supply. Most people will only need a gallon or two per year for their chores around the house.
“Oil is cheap” depends really.. I run Quicksilver marine 2 stroke in everything I have. I have a 1983 mercury 50 boat motor and I buy the oil for it and mix 40:1.. I use that same oil in my weedeaters, chainsaws and leaf blowers… been doing it since the late 80’s. Never had a single issue. Stuff costs 32.99/gal. Mixed 40:1 with 87 octane non-ethanol I can make 40 gals for $4.71/gal. If you went and bought True Fuel “engineered” 40:1 it would cost around $32/gal.. and true fuel is cheaper and isn’t that good.. some folks want to use higher dollar stuff… my point is.. if you used true fuel instead, by the time you run through 6 gallons of it you could buy a new weedeater or chainsaw for the money you would waste and I go through 6 gallons pretty quick. Can you imagine how much money the oil industry would lose if everyone just quit over thinking it and started using the cheapest 2 stroke oil and 87 non-ethanol? Anyway that’s just my opinion.. I’m not a chemical engineer or nothin but I’ve been running 2 strokes and working on my own stuff for 30+ years and I’m completely comfortable with continuing to use 87 non ethanol with quicksilver marine 2 stroke mixed 40:1 in all my stuff.
Quicksilver Premium is a multi-use TC-W3/API-TC rated oil for air cooled engines
What’s odd about the Quicksilver line of oils are the mixing charts. If notice they call for 3oz of oil per/gal for a 50:1 ratio which in reality is a 42.5:1 ratio.
@shannonwhitaker9630 i have also noticed a couple brands of oil which round up the mixing ratios so they're not accurate. I normally use a little bit extra oil anyway as a safety cushion. Not so much that it causes problems, but a little bit extra. When I'm mixing for a 50:1 piece of equipment, I'll put like 2.75 Oz oil in a gallon. I've heard some people recommend 25:1 but that's just ridiculous. That will cause carbon problems and clog exhaust systems up, not to mention that it will also reduce performance and increase pollution. Not good!
I have several older air cooled outboards. One is a Sears that was made by Tanaka. It is a 1.2 hp. The engine is from a trimmer. Very high rpm with a tiny propeller. All I use is TCW3 outboard oil. Oh, its be used for over 25 years. Thanks for the video.
Love the channel would suggest a second test mixed @100:1 and see how they hold up at half the recommended oil.
I’m not a guru, but I did use quicksilver marine 2-stroke in my shindaiwa line trimmer form 1997 until 2022. The poor thing was completely worn out and falling apart except the engine still ran great! I have been a lawn care professional for many years now and I use it in all of my 2-stroke equipment. I use it at 50:1 for everything and have never had an engine failure. It just works great for me here in north Alabama. Like you, though, I keep looking for a definitive explanation about the differences in air cooled versus marine 2-stroke oil. I can’t argue with my personal experience however, so I’ll likely keep using it. Great video! I’m subscribing right now!
I'd be super curious to see an oil lab test - though 2 cycles burn up all the oil so I'm not sure how you'd test that. Project Farm does a lot of oil tests that are super useful!
Pull up a Project Farm video. He has lab results
I bought a new Jonsered 455 in 1988. In the operators manual it said to use TCW 3. I used oil from the dealer and amoco ultimate. Never had a problem.
Bre, like your channel. I consider myself fairly knowledgeable about small engine and yet I still learn a lot from your videos. I rarely comment but feel the need to do so on this occasion. Some outboard oils are meant for pre-mix applications and other are meant for direct injection in 2 cycle engines and not premixed with gasoline. The direct injection type does not mix well with gasoline and if used in a premix application will destroy the engine. Probably something to look into for your self to better understand. Thanks for the good content.
Hello Chickanic, I have been using the same brand Valvoline marine grade 2 stroke on my KM94R for a number of years and she is still purring fine, from Australia
I think that axiom might’ve been true about 40 years ago, but I don’t think it would be true today because all the oils are pretty much made at one of several refineries, and they’re all made to a certain spec. The additives might be different but the base oils are all gonna be pretty much, the same, especially in the synthetics.
The Marine 2 cycle oil if it is TW3 labeled will have Brightstock in it plus some other chemicals that will be better on the chain saws Brightstock makes the oil slicker and is high detergent to help the engine run clean make a ash less burn. Should be a PIB oil which is clear so they add coloring like blue. add a chemical to keep it from clumping so that it won't plug up oil injectors. It starts out at 20w oil but the additives makes it a heavier oil. You should be fine using it.
I've been using Marine 2 stroke oil in my Husqvarna saws for years and my CD 480 I've had for 38 years and have only put a clutch on it and use it yearly
I recommend you to send out both oils out for a chemical test to see what is in the oil itself.
Agreed. Would like to know the base stock for each oil as well as the additives, particularly in the marine oil.
Just finished a bottle of TW3 OIL and my 15 year old Poulan loved it
Enjoy your videos. I have learned more to fix my small engines and saving money with your videos.
Years ago,,i and my dad used the small 020 Stihl chainsaws.Tuff as nails.We cut firewood ,logs...everything.Wew bored the heck out of them,and installed a 16" bar,,,.... An old guy that repaired saws told my Dad that marine out board oil was the best in a chainsaw, they worked better and didnt smoke,and also burned cleaner very little carbon.. So,we used it and never had a problem with it...ran those little saws for years.Now everyone is saying NO to marine oil mix.I would not be afraid to use it again,actually after watching you Vid ....im going to mix outboard,and chainsaw mix together,,for i made a mistake a month ago and bought a liter of outboard mix....im gonna start using it.Thanks for your videos,,,very imformative. (i tinker with chainsaw and small engine repairs for myself and friends)...im still learning ,and you do a great job!!!
Thanks for all of your hard work that benefits us all. This video was very memorable indeed.
From experience I have found outboard 2 stroke if fine for short runs in air cooled engines but for extended runs under heavy load especially on hot days it doesn't offer sufficient cooling. Air cooled oil whether 2 or 4 stroke is designed to transfer heat to the cylinder walls. I cooked a saw using outboard oil, piston and bore was fine but the ring lost all tension resulting in no compression. In my lawnmower outboard oil worked fine as it wasn't getting used for 4+ hours straight, it also cleaned out the bottom end of my mower after the previous owner run it with no air filter.
I would love to see Amsoil 2 cycle oil included in your testing. I have had great success with this.
I have ran Valvoline 2 cycle oil since the 80,s with no problems. With that said I just purchased a Echo weed eater and a Echo blower and I am running the Echo oil in them just to be safe.
Thanks for the video. I have been using synthetic marine oil (just because I had it on the shelf) in my Poulan chain saw, Craftsman weed whacker, and Stihl backpack blower for several years. Didn't know you weren't supposed to. Zero problems. My blower gets many many hours per year. Runs great.
What Brand/Type oil ? What ratio ?
@@shannonwhitaker9630 Quicksilver synthetic blend 3.2 oz per gallon, 40 to 1.
The Quicksilver line comes in different formulations apparently… DI, PWC, Plus 2 and Multi-use Premium.
@@shannonwhitaker9630 I use DI, same oil I use in my 2 cycle outboard motor.
They are much different oils because outboard engines are WATER COOLED, not air cooled, and thus never get above 200 degrees. These chainsaws can get as high as 350 to 400 on the head and TCW3 will break down at high temps like that.
We had a Multiquip rammer compactor with a Robin 2 stroke engine and for 10 years we ran 5w30 Pennzoil for our mix, never had a problem.
Amsoil Sabre Professional here too. Been using it from way back when it was 100:1. I mix it 1.5oz (for ease of measure) per gallon and run it in everything. I bought a brand new Lawn Boy mower, grit my teeth and crossed all my fingers and mixed it 100:1 like they said. Later I went to 1.5oz because it just seems to be easier? That thing literally rusted out around the engine which was still running like a top with great compression. Had no issues in all that time which was probably close to 20 years, just a plug and filter every once in awhile and I absolutely abused that thing. I now run Amsoil in everything and always will as long as it's available and keeps performing.
@@williamwallace9620 It is great stuff. Worth every penny. I've never had a carb gum up either and I'm not real good about running them dry in the winter either! I do run ethanol free gas, but the stabilizer in it is good. Once upon a time Amsoil said it still met the two stroke spec (of that time) even when mixed at 300:1 when they were testing it before offering it for sale. But they didn't think anyone would believe it, so they labeled it 100:1.
I love Valvoline Multi-Purpose 2 stroke oil. I buy the quart size for about $ 8.00. It does great.
Now that was a good test.Ive always run Stihl HP non synthetic in my Stihls and others.Been a dirt biker my whole life and run Kawi racing oil non synthetic 2 STR.Friend of mine used to use Homelite chainsaw oil in his dirt bike with no problems.Its what he had being a small engine mechanic.Gee guess I'm goin to try to use up some of that Kawi oil and snowmobile oil.Thank you😃 Tom (chainsaw rescuer)
The best oil sthil orange bottle 2-stroke oil and bar oil take it from me I bye a new equipment bye cheap boat oil
I use Stihl HP oil 42:1 2,200hrs + combined with different air cooled engines.
I've been using marine 2 Stroke in my strimmers and hedge cutters for years and they love it.
What type/brand oil ? Ratio ? Fuel type/grade ?
The main difference between the oils is how the work at lower temperatures, like at idle. They're both premium oils, they're just engineered to do their best work in different environments.
I have a pooland chainsaw and a Bolens trimmer I have to rebuild. Both have been sitting up for over 20 years.
I always use Pennzoil premium synthetic blend marine oil for my two cycle motors, no problems at all! As long it meets TC-W3 requierements, They will work fine! What i recommend is to use synthetic blend oil or full. (Marine).
What Ratio ?
Always use Lucas smoke les two stroke oil and have done for the last 30 years Never an issue but it aint cheap I just rate Lucas oils All the best from the U.K. !!
Be sure to compare the API specifications in each container for comparison.
I am a 57 year auto tech and worked also in my uncle's small engine shop as well. I also taught 6 years in high schools (auto) and 28 years in a Community College (automotive service).
The reason you shouldn’t use marine 2 stroke oil in your air cooled 2 strokes has nothing to do with rpm differences instead it’s all to do with the heat at which each engine runs. Air cooled 2 strokes run wayyyy hotter. You’ll increase the probability that you’ll burn up an air cooled engine up running marine 2 stroke in one and you’ll foul the marine engine running air cooled 2t oils.
Thats what I always thought too. The difference is in the operating temps.
But explain how that thought process works with the outboard engines that were air cooled 🤔
That's not true. the difference between the two oils is additional additives to the marine oil to inhibit moisture corrosion. Otherwise, they are pretty much the same stuff as any 2-stroke oil. In all likelihood, it is better to run marine oil in lawn equipment than plain 2-stroke oil for that reason.
Many marine 2-stroke oils say right on the label they are good for motorcycles, weed eaters, leaf blowers and other air cooled 2-stroke engines. That's not hard at all to find.
I used to run a two cycle welder on marine two cycle oil, was not long before I had to replace the piston and jug on it. Never did that again.
I can't imagine there's much difference between them. They are both specifically for 2 cycle engines. A much longer test would be required in my opinion and then there would be too many variables to make a good conclusion. Now for a quicker test, try using the high end brand 2 cycle oil against say a Walmart brand 4 cycle crankcase oil. If the wallyworld oil won't burn up an engine, we are being played.
They are much different oils because outboard engines are WATER COOLED, not air cooled, and thus never get above 200 degrees. These chainsaws can get as high as 350 to 400 on the head and TCW3 will break down at high temps like that.
We're all being played. There's another RUclipsr who has tested this extensively. Simple SAE 30 oil works just as well and the truth is that it was what they used before 2 stroke oil was ever a thing. Even most two stroke oils are basically SAE30 oil with dyes added to give them different fancy colours. Most people are happy to pay more for the expensive 2 stroke oil because they think it's protecting their engines more. The truth, I suspect is that it doesn't. As long as you get the mix ratios right your two stroke will probably run just fine.
Best two stroke oil is pennzoil or havoline! Been using for 28 years still have saws running never been rebuilt. Both are all purpose, use same thing in my boat.
I've been wondering the same 🤔thing. I would be nice if you knew a tree service company you trusted to carry on this experiment for about a week or two of heavy use. Thanks for sharing 🤠
They are much different oils because outboard engines are WATER COOLED, not air cooled, and thus never get above 200 degrees. These chainsaws can get as high as 350 to 400 on the head and TCW3 will break down at high temps like that. If she would use these chainsaws for a season THEN look into the cylinder, she'd see the chainsaw number 2's cylinder would be toast.
@@airplanedude419possibly at 50.1 50.1 is to thin even with the Gucci oils. A 2 stroke is a 2 stroke. They bamboozled everyone into paying with the it's made different for different temps. Bullshit... newer 2 cycles say run 50.1 because of pressure from the EPA. Run all your 2 strokes 32.1 and they will be fine and any 2 cycle oil
I run 42:1 with Nikasil cylinder engines and 32:1 with old steel cylinder engines. 50:1….Nope !
Hello, I enjoy your videos. I wanted to say that my dad used to repair small engines and equipment when I was young. I'm now 63 so much has changed in the lubrication market. He would not use marine oil only because he was unsure how the viscosity of the marine oil would fair in an air-cooled engine. Boat motors run so much cooler since the cylinders are water jacketed as opposed to an air-cooled engine where the cylinders run much hotter. There is no engineering study's behind my father's thoughts. Just a normal concern... Keep up the good work.
great breakdown. enjoy watching these types of side by side comparisons. keep em coming
I have used the Stihl two cycle Oil also the Mercury Marine 2 cycle oil and I'm like you girl I have never found a difference.😊
Per Google's Gemini: Differences between Marine and Garden Equipment 2-Cycle Oils:
1. Certification and Additives:
The primary difference lies in certification. Marine 2-cycle oils typically meet the NMMA TC-W3 standard, formulated for water-cooled outboard motors operating in saltwater environments. This standard emphasizes:
Anti-corrosion additives: To resist saltwater's corrosive effects on engine components.
Low ash formulation: To minimize spark plug fouling and exhaust port deposits in water-cooled engines that often operate for extended periods at both low and high RPMs.
Garden equipment oils, often JASO FD certified, prioritize:
High lubricity: To withstand the high temperatures and friction in air-cooled high RPM engines.
Detergent and dispersant additives: To control combustion chamber deposits including from ash. (Ash is the dry solids produced by the combustion process.)
2. Using Marine Oil in Portable Equipment:
While technically possible, using marine oil in air-cooled equipment is generally not recommended. The low ash content, crucial for marine engines when running at slow speeds, may not provide sufficient lubrication for high-friction, high-temperature garden equipment. Oils for air-cooled motors contain additives that purposely produce a controlled amount of ash of a type that improves lubricity after all the wet oil has burned off. Not having this dry lubricant can increase wear and tear, leading to premature engine failure.
3. Combustion Chamber Deposits and Temperature:
Prolonged operation at high temperatures can accelerate deposit formation. The key lies in maintaining proper operating temperature. Both marine and garden equipment oils are formulated to control deposits WITHIN THEIR RESPECTIVE OPERATING TEMPERATURE RANGES.
4. High Ash and Lubricity:
High ash content can improve lubricity to an extent. However, excessive ash can:
Increase spark plug fouling, leading to ignition problems.
Contribute to exhaust port blockage, reducing engine performance.
Therefore, modern oils prioritize balanced formulations that offer adequate lubrication without sacrificing other performance aspects.
5. Synthetic Oils and Universal Applicability:
Synthetic oils generally offer several advantages, including:
Improved high-temperature performance compared to conventional mineral oils.
Enhanced resistance to wear and tear.
Reduced deposit formation.
While some universal synthetic oils claim suitability for both marine and air-cooled applications, it's crucial to consult your equipment manufacturer's recommendations. Not all universal oils may meet the specific needs of marine or garden equipment.
Conclusion:
While both marine and garden equipment use 2-cycle oils, their specific formulations cater to the unique operating environments of each application. Using the appropriate oil ensures optimal performance, longevity, and protection for your machinery.
I used my 29 year (1994) grass/brush trimmer for the first time this year. It started right up with no issues. I did a good amount of trimming, & it ran perfectly! I must admit the Echo Speed Feed head is awesome! Been using one for a couple years now, because of this channel. I currently have 4 chainsaws (two were given to me from my dad). They are 1995, 2000, 2004, & 2005 models. I never replaced a 2-stroke piece of equipment. I own 72 acres of woods & cut firewood. My stuff gets used. Two of the above five items require a 40:1 mix. I mix one gallon of non-ethanol gas at a time to keep it fresh for pretty much everything. I find a 40:1 mix works well for everything I own (McCulloch, Poulan, Husqvarana, & Jonsered). I am not loyal to any brand. For years, I just used Poulan 2-stroke oil, but I buy whatever seems affordable. I would never buy those 2.6 ounce/50:1 oil containers. I would rather use a cheaper 2-stroke oil at a 40:1 ratio than an expensive oil at 50:1 ratio. A little extra oil is better in my opinion! If I ever have something fail, I may change my mind. I see no need to buy/use Marine oil when other affordable options exist. Marine engines tend to run cooler (water cooled), & I feel the differences in the oil may be justified.
I think the only difference is the ash content. Marine oil doesn’t have ash in it, so if you are 40:1 mix marine at 32:1. But Im gonna run a synthetic in mine. Im a nut with my oil. The extra cost in my mind is worth it
I was told years ago that the use of Lawnboy 2 cycle oil could not be used in trimmers and chainsaws due to rpm differences. The oil didn't have the required additives for the higher rpms. The marine oil may be a different story.
Great experiment!!!!!
They are much different oils because outboard engines are WATER COOLED, not air cooled, and thus never get above 200 degrees. These chainsaws can get as high as 350 to 400 on the head and TCW3 will break down at high temps like that.
I’ve used Motul 2 stroke oil for my dirt bike in a pinch, and it ran flawlessly. Don’t know if it was a good idea but had to do it.
Been running Quicksilver(Mercury Marine) oil in my saws for years and decades. Lol I think the gallon of oil may go bad before the piston rings and walls will. 😆
It may have been a 'preexisting' condition but .... I had a Stihl 066 chainsaw purchased used. In the early fall I had some marine mixed gasoline/oil left over from the boating season. I used the marine oil in the Stihl and it burned up and I had to have it rebuilt. Don't use anything but the recommended 2 cycle oil now and have had not troubles.
I am a big fan of using the recommended oil for a machine. Some of my tools are close to forty years old and still running fine. Granted they are only used for my personal use.
40 years ago, engines were running on a 20 to 1 ratio.... Same engine today runs on a 50 to 1 ratio due to the oil being so different...
@@twistedhillbilly6157 I had machines that ran on 16 to 1...32 to 1 and most recently 50 to 1. My point was that I followed the manufacturers directions and my tools had a long life.
@@bobhumphries3998 Were specialty oils recommended 40 years ago? We ran blenzall in our motorcycles but not because it was recommended.. Everything I have from the 80's or earlier just said use 2 stroke or chainsaw oil.. all this manufacturer specialty nonsense is fairly new.. MY point is: a 40 year old machine did NOT recommend a 50 to 1 mix so it is impossible for your story to be true..
The engine manufacturers say 50:1 for emissions / EPA compliant. Mix a minimum 40:1
I’ve worked as a car mechanic aircraft mechanic and own a 550B John Deere Dozer so I became a save your money diesel mechanic as well a small engine repair man? I have learned a lot from you and told my fellow half ass mechanic friends. They enjoyed your website too and found it very informative not to mention a pretty lady, not afraid to break a fingernail we all look forward to the next topic great work look forward to many more topics 😊
Jim Freeport LI NY
note 1: at the beginning.. trust me from an old tech, you are going to eventually hate yourself for whacking the scrench handles (and other tools) like that with the palm of your hand when you get older! I'm only 55, but my hands (the all important hands) these days are seriously paying for a lifetime of smacking ratchets, screnches, wrenches like that.
Meth
Yep
Hi I've been using Amzoil Saber in all my 2 cycle engines for over 25 years with good results.