@@Leadnap You should upload a new version with a slight different cut analyzing the stick in MSFS for example (without removing this one to keep the organic click rate)
For the throttle track being sticky or chunky I highly recommend creasing it up with nyogel. Makes the slide feel hydrolic and expensive. World of a difference.
Agreed and I've done so as well. When I did this review I wanted to address stock considerations - there's stuff if I remade this one I would mention more prominently.
@@Leadnap I've also greased the my stick. No pun intended. But I've gotten mixed results. It's harder to do and hard to get a consistent feel moving the stick across all axis. Still the nyogel really made this cheaper set feel like big dollars.
@@CristianCalhoun look up vids on you tube on where and how to apply the nyogel and which grease to use exactly. I think it was nyogel 7a... Something can't remember the exact lettering. I'm still using my thrustmaster throttle about 18 after one application. Still feels fantastic!
Some ppl have even made emselves new "bearingplate" and put roller bearings instead of default nylon/plastic (or something) ones. It gets more, well metallic, but with that setup it ROLLS. (and lasts kinda as long the electrics hold up..). Seems that in top of all goodness TM 16000m is also well self-tunable. (atleat the throttle..)
This is a very nice in-depth review for the TM16000M and a great choice for a giveaway. After seeing this, I'm sold on the idea of using this setup for Star Citizen when I'm ready to upgrade.
I used to flight sim a lot as a kid. Would like to get back to it as well as some combat flight sim now as a father with a better budget. Looks like you convinced me on getting this. The foot pedals do look too narrow for comfort. I think i'll pass on those.
Nice and in depth review, loved it! One note I would make is your background music is a bit too loud and high-end heavy, it seems to bleed through when your voice cuts and compression stops. Thanks again for this great review.
In regards to the lack of fine control with the T16000M throttle, if you add a little dampening grease to the rails of the throttle mechanism, it fixes its tendency to stick a bit when making fine movements, and allows for really fine control. I’d recommend Nyogel 767A grease. It gives the throttle a really fluid feel. Made a massive difference for me.
No matter what the control scheme question is, the correct answer is NEVER "dual joysticks". 26 years of non-stop 6DOF and Flight simulation talking here.
Thank you for the last half being Star Citizen focused, not always easy to glean the usefulness of something unless the review directly relates to what you want to use it for
I'm currently running a Tflight Hotas X and I'd love to upgrade to the T16000M! I'm convinced it will keep tankers safe as I won't be as inclined to shoot them down after being frustrated with my AAR abilities.
Bought mine for Mechwarrior 5 Mercs and i love it. Recently got into Elite Dangerous and it does everything i need with enough buttons for me to remap keybinds for comfort.
I was looking around on what to get for DCS World and I am glad I found your review. I found a really nice deal on the stick and throttle combo and will be getting them tomorrow.
Have two of these...Best sticks I have ever owned for these types of games. And the fact that you can change them to left/right handed is a huge bonus.
I got a Saitek X56 HOTAS and your review made me want the HOSAS configuration. If I would have known that the TM16000M was that versatile I wouldn't go the way of the Saitek. Great review.
In all fairness to your viewers there's couple of points about the setup that you didn't mention. The first is that the throttle tends to have reputation for being sticky. Trying to do small movements can be tricky since you need to overcome the resistance before it moves. There are a number of videos on RUclips about fixing this issue, but you need pretty high end lube that can be difficult to find. I ended up lining the tracks that slide along the rails with aluminum and it has a much better feel. One side was done with a cutout made from an aluminum can while the other side was a bit tighter and I used a couple of sheets of heavy duty cooking foil. I use no lube at all and it has a nice smooth consistant feel. It will require you to take the throttle apart but is a pretty easy upgrade if you're careful. The other issue is that the twist axis on the stick uses a cheap potentiometer that's prone to failure. They're apparently very hard to find and when mine failed I added a set of rudder pedals to my setup. Other than those 2 issues I'm quite happy with the setup for both flight sims and space sims. Also, not sure what you mean about it being a struggle to make the throttle work in Star Citizen. It was a pretty easy setup for me, but I did have to spend some time tweaking curves and button binds to my liking. I use the main throttle axis as my speed limiter, the top hat switch for cruise control, decoupled, hover mode. I use the analog stick on the front of the throttle for strafe up/down and left/right. And I use the paddle on the front of the throttle for strafe forward and back. This gives me pretty much all the controls that a hosas would and I've still got the pinky rotary axis for thruster limiter. (throttle for decoupled mode is on the base of the stick but you could also use the rotary axis for that if you fly in DC a lot) The throttle has enough buttons that I haven't even used them all for SC.
Hi Jeff, it wasn't just the "sticky" throttle I was speaking about - since like you I've taken mine apart and done some extra work on it to improve the slide. The issue is simply one of distance - though I only noticed it during very precise exercises like air to air refueling where constant tiny adjustments must be made to the throttle on the F-16. The X-56 throttle has a longer range, so 1mm of travel is less input than on the TM16. If I had the pro-version of Tacview I would show you the throttle graphs on the two sticks. As far as SC goes - it isn't that you can't set up a throttle, but the entire set up is based around a HOSAS model. Admittedly I generally stick to mouse and keyboard in part because most new players use that and it helps to make tutorials using what they use but also just because I personally don't like the stick setup for SC. I play with a number who swear by HOSAS and HOTAS but it just never does it for me. I do however like using my X-56 throttle to make some silky smooth landings with the finer engine control than say the mouse wheel. Thanks for the comment! If you want to email me your bindings for SC I would love to take a look and give them a try. Submit@leadnap.com
Thank you very much for the review, lately, I've been having troubles with my 3d pro with the yaw and throttle so I wanted to get an idea of what's a good next stage upgrade, this looks like one of the top options for mid-price 👍👍nice video!
Nice review! I have the Thrustmaster T-flight HOTAS and am enjoying it with playing Elite Dangerous. I am currently deciding to upgrade to the T.16000m HOTAS or the HOSAS even... thx for the review!
It maybe too late for the free giveaway chance, but this video has given me enough knowledge to make it my choice when I get the money for it. Fingers crossed I get can find a good enough sale.
This is a really nice in depth review and because of this is a really big help for someone looking to upgrade from the t-flight hotas. thanks man and keep up the good work
Not sure if mentioned but the stick throttle axis has H.E.A.R.T* magnetic precision technology. This is the same sensor as the Warthog at a fraction of the price. Roughly 16000 values per axis. I own this and granted it's not the warthog or X-56 however in terms of value it's unbeatable imo of course. Only one complaint in addition to this excellent videos list of issues is the Z axis potentiometer (twist) on the stick. Lots of complaints with random jumping and turning as it malfunctions. Tried to calibrate only to find it's hardware related and had to get a replacement. Best video on this product out there. Thank you for the time you put in showing off the value of this product!
Thanks that was very helpful. I had a frustrated in the late 90's and had left simulations for a while. Looks like Star Citizen pulls me back in. Thanks again
This has to be the best video on this topic. I have been looking for a HOTAS to get into DCS, IL-2 and other flight games but have had the issue of what HOTAS to get. The only ones in my price range really are the Thrustmaster TM16000m, the Logitech/Saitek X52 and X52 pro because the X-56 is impossible to find and a little more expensive than I wanted to spend at the moment. All videos on the topic are for space sims like Elite Dangerous and stuff and none review for real flight games. All the reviews were mixed, some preferred the X-52 while some the TM16000m. The Saitek looks more visually appealing but the TM16000m and TWCS throttle look "Cheap", although Thrustmaster seems to make better products and have better software. In the end, I just ordered the TM16000m and TWCS solely because of this video! It answered every question I had on which to buy for a beginner looking to get into DCS and other sims. Thank you
I'm on my fourth or fifth HOTAS at this point, and I still always compare them back to this one, the TM16000. It's got it's issues but it seriously has some of the best quality attached. Hope you enjoy yours!
@@Leadnap yeah, I just picked it up this afternoon. Got home and set it up but its gonna take a while to get everything all mapped out and stuff. What module would you recommend for a beginner in DCS. I was leaning towards the F-18C or the Mirage 2000.
That's tricky. How much flight experience do you bring to the table? For the F-18 it's a great module to learn on because it's got tons of tools and in the "if you learn just one" this module will reward you handsomely never leaving you wanting for features the others have. The problem however is all this capability is locked behind a very advanced avionics suite - so you have to learn both how to fly and how to use the computer, which can be a challenge. The M2000 is awesome because like the -18 you have an immense set of tools to work with, unlike the -18 there's no MFDs which means you're all switches to run the system. The Mirage also has some great features to help the pilot, which is great if you're newer to flying. Downside is even though the system is in English, it's also in French underneath so there are some stuff you just have to wrap your head around in French. If you learn it - M2000 is an incredible module. If you're looking for multiplayer squadrons you'll likely have to look to Europe, these are less popular elsewhere. The M2000 will also give you the ability to fly the new Mirage line coming, as they're earlier versions of the 2000 model. My personal favorite, and my route, was through the Viggen. Often ignored but this module is quite sophisticated in capability but not in how to use them. You set up most of the systems on the ground so you focus primarily on flying the mission and the Viggen is remarkably user friendly and forgiving to newer pilots. It's in Swedish, but most of the aircraft runs on numerical code which is universal. There's an English pit mod that's great but I found the Swedish is easier (and I don't speak it!). Downsides are no AAR, primarily an A2G system, and squadrons are generally small and Swedish. It is however a fantastic bird to fly and learn to fly in. The biggest thing I tell people is pick one and learn it - with a few exceptions most modules will reward you with capability. The -18 and M2000 are both solid choices. The M2000 may be the best right now just because if you master it, you're primed for both the Mirage F1 series release and to an extent the Typhoon which will wreck everything with the Magic capability for A2A. The -18 likewise gives you everything. I love the Viper but we're still super feature incomplete - you're better going -18 and switching over later. Most importantly use freefly (now) and try a few out, pick one and learn it. Shoot me an email at submit@leadnap.com and I'll try to help/connect you in ways the comment section otherwise limits me.
Thank you for the comparison of these options. I think I like the Idea of duel stick. I have been playing mouse and keyboard in Star Citizen and I am thinking about taking it up a notch.
Thank you for making this review, I've been considering picking up a HOTAS for war thunder and space engineers but couldn't find a review that really explained the difference between the three that you went over in this video. I almost bought the x52 but held off due to uncertainty!
Thank you so much for the video.I just wanted to fix that actually you can adjust the stiffness in the t16000m I don't know if you are talking about stick or throttle but you can adjust for throttle. Thank you for video again it is a very helpful video :)
Interesting review. I never moved away from the T.Flight. It drove me crazy not having a set of pedals and going away from muscle memory of left right stick is roll and the knowledge that the budget pedals would only compound the problem. Got a set of crosswind pedals and just having that put so much life back into that inexpensive HOTAS. Looking at the next upgrade but my only two paths at this point are dual stick, which makes the 1600 attractive, or maybe something like the VIRPLE. In that order.
I am jealous of your Crosswinds. That was a part of my message here, the 16000 doesn't look fancy, doesn't do fancy - but I got solid use out of it and frankly am very disappointed in the quality of the X56 after having such a good quality set up.
You might want to check out the VKB Gladiator-K joysticks. They're much better constructed than the Thrustmaster ones, have a lot more buttons and hats, come in both left and right hand versions, and cost about half the price of Virpil joysticks.
@@alanhobson9121 Thanks for the recommendation. What I have is “serviceable” but I really would like more button options. Cost would definitely be a factor before the ones that I have “oops they broke”. LOL
There are only two things that have me working on the X56 and not my TM16: the stick head and longer throttle arc. Otherwise I would turn back to the TM right now.
Well once you have that stick - DCS is free to play and comes free with the SU-27 and the P-51. Those are not "full" models but if you're looking for some hard studying and up for a challenge the professional flight model aircraft are unlike anything else. Eagle Dynamics is also working on releasing another game in tune with DCS that is more like Warthunder or World of Warplanes - less focused on the hard core flight model (but using their amazing 3-d models and VR) for players not looking to actually learn to fly a jet. Thanks!
Well, with MFS 2020 coming up, this video finally convinced me to order the TM1600M! Really nice, informative and entertaining review! Even as a complete aviation-noob I understood everything and learned a lot! Thumbs up! :)
Glad! A heads up - TM has come out with a new Airbus version of this HOTAS which is generally a cosmetic difference though the right most button on the stick head was changed from the style it currently is to a round red button. I've got a four fundamentals of flight video in the works that might change your sim-flight world too so stay tuned! Have fun in the skies!
Then you should know after some months, the throtlle joystick will be pretty much fucked and so will be the rudder.I had a refund, too bad the hotas is really the best, but it's ot made for heavy gamers.
I think the hats on the throttle are really what interests me, for the viggen you dont need as many hats but theyre all there anyway, as you said its perfect for the viggen 👌
Excellent review, thank you. Your review was the tipping point that made me buy the 16000 over the X56/52. I'm glad you felt the way you did as I would have been very cautious about buying yet another logitech product (used to be the best around but they are cost saving everywhere they can to the severe detriment of the products quality (In the last 2 years I have had 3 mice break in under 6 months each as well as a powerplay matt that stopped charging beyond the 3 month mark, whereas their products used to be good for 4/5 or even more years). Anyway, sorry for the tangent. Thanks again.
What a description on your video! Starting my flight training soon and looking to build my own sim to practise my upcoming flights! Would love to get a chance with this one!
Remember to cover the stick up after using it, so dust wouldn't be a problem later on! I didn't care for my t16000 stick enough, and the z-axis has been randomly registering outputs in the neutral position. I read that it would be a quick fix to just clean the dust inside, but I am looking to buy a new t16000 set instead after watching this review and the x56 one.
Already have and use a TM16000M HOTAS setup in Star Citizen. Just here to see others thoughts. When it comes to Flight in SC I can't believe I even tried KB+Mouse and wished I had ordered the TM HOTAS setup much sooner.
Nice review. Not quite at the point where I went to invest into SC outside of just keyboard and mouse. But always like to keep up to date on good products if I do reach that point
I fly 90% of the time with KB/M in SC. With the FPS element it just is too big a pain to switch constantly. I am experimenting with using just the throttle for precise landings, so far so good.
Currently June 27, 2022, the TM16000 stick is $70, the throttle is $129 or both stick and throttle together $169 on Amazon so you save $30 together. I just added the throttle mid June 2022!
The droning tone in the background is killing me... my mind keeps relaxing and I lose focus on what you're saying. Just hummmmmmmmm... flying visuals. WAIT, what was he saying? Skip back 30s... repeat. Best HOTAS review ever. Except for the hum. 😉
In Elite Dangerous maybe the most important axis is the barrel roll. That is why it is assigned to the horizontal movement of the mouse. Then it feels like an airplane to control. Docking into a spinning station fast is a skill you can not have enough practice to do it perfectly. Especially with sports stadium sized ships has around a dozen feet left on the sides. That throttle control seems perfect for the job. Twisting the joystick feature not the best way to execute it.
This has been a great stick for me. On the DCS side - what are you enjoying doing in DCS? That really is what should guide module choice (which in turn also decides HOTAS choice...)
i am getting an x52pro for Christmas. i was going to get this but i do some helicopter flying along with dogfighting and apparently it has a large dead zone which is not very good for heli’s then i looked at the x56 and i love how it looks and everything but god dam is it expensive i live in canada and it’s like 300$ also i have to keep in mind that this is going to be my first stick so there is no need to go buy to go buy the top of the line equipment or at least close enough seeing as i don’t even know if i like flying with a joystick yet. so i went back to look for a good but still reasonably affordable stick then i found the x52pro which is great it has a everything i personally need maybe other than split throttles and rudder pedals.
Ayee just got star citizen and my buddys say i need a joystick to really get into it. Been lookin and thrustmaster look'd like a good fit but not many videos on it, and I never used a joystick so I wouldnt know so thanks for the info
I love my 16000m and throttle. I'm looking to slap some nyogel in itand it will be even better. had a small issue with the stick Z axis, squirted a little WD40 on the sensor and flawless now
A really nice review. I keep leaning towards wanting to try the stick, but it just seems so bad (other than the awesome internals). The amount of buttons on the stick is just making it such a hard sell. I love the throttle and have one that I've been using for a while now, but that T1600m stick is just .. meh. Those buttons on the base are kind of pointless to me. I would rather have more buttons on the stick where I can reach them without taking my hand off the stick. I would use my old Logitech Extreme 3d Pro before I bought a T1600m stick. 6 buttons and a hat just on the stick, another 6 on the base if you need them. I really wish they would design a new stick to replace that 90's throwback looking stick. I would love those amazing internals on a more usable stick.
Ha that was my evolution lol. Still have not seen the need for virpels. Sticking with the TMs. It centers great. I made some chair design changes and vesa mounts and I now have what I think is a killer setup with the stick sitting where the are in the game oh you have girlie hands. Thanks for this.
I'll let my wife know her hands are girly ;D though I agree 100%. A big part of this video for me was the hard lesson I learned that the TM16000 is honestly one of the best until you go into the high grade range. I am so disappointed with the X-56, I would return it if I could at this point because it is just garbage compared to the TM. Only thing it does better is actual throttle, and I really need the three hats on the stick for the F-16. Rumor is WinWing is going to make an F-16 throttle group so I am holding out for that. Irony was I had last year planned this to give away the X-56 not the TM16000 but the TM just is better and I would rather someone have quality over the "more expensive" one.
The only real shortcoming of the T 16000 is the lack of a second hat on the stick and a lack of buttons and switches on the throttle's base. If not for those things, I wouldn't even consider upgrading to the very expensive Virpil controls.
the background music is driving me insane
Yes, they should use that sound as sonic warfare, i makes my brainstem want to leap out of my ears and murder my PC speakers.
Holy shit im not the only one. Like its nice but not for 20 fkn minutes and its loud
I apologize for it guys. Always trying new things on here, this wasn't a successful one. X-56 review coming soon ... promise it won't be like this.
thought it was neighbours lol
@@Leadnap You should upload a new version with a slight different cut analyzing the stick in MSFS for example (without removing this one to keep the organic click rate)
For the throttle track being sticky or chunky I highly recommend creasing it up with nyogel. Makes the slide feel hydrolic and expensive.
World of a difference.
Agreed and I've done so as well. When I did this review I wanted to address stock considerations - there's stuff if I remade this one I would mention more prominently.
@@Leadnap I've also greased the my stick. No pun intended.
But I've gotten mixed results. It's harder to do and hard to get a consistent feel moving the stick across all axis.
Still the nyogel really made this cheaper set feel like big dollars.
Jesus, because of this problem I have bought a whole new throttle quadrant! :D Thanks for the tip, awesome! ;) I'll try asap! :)
@@CristianCalhoun look up vids on you tube on where and how to apply the nyogel and which grease to use exactly.
I think it was nyogel 7a... Something can't remember the exact lettering.
I'm still using my thrustmaster throttle about 18 after one application. Still feels fantastic!
Some ppl have even made emselves new "bearingplate" and put roller bearings instead of default nylon/plastic (or something) ones. It gets more, well metallic, but with that setup it ROLLS. (and lasts kinda as long the electrics hold up..). Seems that in top of all goodness TM 16000m is also well self-tunable. (atleat the throttle..)
This is a very nice in-depth review for the TM16000M and a great choice for a giveaway. After seeing this, I'm sold on the idea of using this setup for Star Citizen when I'm ready to upgrade.
Thanks!
You had me at HOSAS. Always loved your stuff, lead. It was a hoot to see the little tike holding the flight stick; train him well!
So glad they've done well with the throttle, the stick was already a decent kit
I used to flight sim a lot as a kid. Would like to get back to it as well as some combat flight sim now as a father with a better budget. Looks like you convinced me on getting this. The foot pedals do look too narrow for comfort. I think i'll pass on those.
Nice and in depth review, loved it! One note I would make is your background music is a bit too loud and high-end heavy, it seems to bleed through when your voice cuts and compression stops. Thanks again for this great review.
In regards to the lack of fine control with the T16000M throttle, if you add a little dampening grease to the rails of the throttle mechanism, it fixes its tendency to stick a bit when making fine movements, and allows for really fine control. I’d recommend Nyogel 767A grease. It gives the throttle a really fluid feel. Made a massive difference for me.
do you have any ideea as to how am i supposed to aply it?
I'd be interested to see how dual-stick feels, I still haven't had the chance. Nice review
Joy2Key works great with Star citizen
No matter what the control scheme question is, the correct answer is NEVER "dual joysticks".
26 years of non-stop 6DOF and Flight simulation talking here.
@@Chris.Davies I disagree completely. dual sticks with pedals is an amazing star citizen experience.
The price is what sold it for me. Great value
Thank you for the last half being Star Citizen focused, not always easy to glean the usefulness of something unless the review directly relates to what you want to use it for
I'm currently running a Tflight Hotas X and I'd love to upgrade to the T16000M! I'm convinced it will keep tankers safe as I won't be as inclined to shoot them down after being frustrated with my AAR abilities.
Bought mine for Mechwarrior 5 Mercs and i love it. Recently got into Elite Dangerous and it does everything i need with enough buttons for me to remap keybinds for comfort.
I was looking around on what to get for DCS World and I am glad I found your review. I found a really nice deal on the stick and throttle combo and will be getting them tomorrow.
Great job on your review. I hope the winner of the giveaway enjoys t16000m hotas.
Have two of these...Best sticks I have ever owned for these types of games. And the fact that you can change them to left/right handed is a huge bonus.
I got a Saitek X56 HOTAS and your review made me want the HOSAS configuration. If I would have known that the TM16000M was that versatile I wouldn't go the way of the Saitek. Great review.
Thank you for this, I've been on the fence about a stick and your experience with the 16000 helped answer several of the questions I had.
In all fairness to your viewers there's couple of points about the setup that you didn't mention.
The first is that the throttle tends to have reputation for being sticky. Trying to do small movements can be tricky since you need to overcome the resistance before it moves. There are a number of videos on RUclips about fixing this issue, but you need pretty high end lube that can be difficult to find. I ended up lining the tracks that slide along the rails with aluminum and it has a much better feel. One side was done with a cutout made from an aluminum can while the other side was a bit tighter and I used a couple of sheets of heavy duty cooking foil. I use no lube at all and it has a nice smooth consistant feel. It will require you to take the throttle apart but is a pretty easy upgrade if you're careful.
The other issue is that the twist axis on the stick uses a cheap potentiometer that's prone to failure. They're apparently very hard to find and when mine failed I added a set of rudder pedals to my setup.
Other than those 2 issues I'm quite happy with the setup for both flight sims and space sims.
Also, not sure what you mean about it being a struggle to make the throttle work in Star Citizen. It was a pretty easy setup for me, but I did have to spend some time tweaking curves and button binds to my liking. I use the main throttle axis as my speed limiter, the top hat switch for cruise control, decoupled, hover mode. I use the analog stick on the front of the throttle for strafe up/down and left/right. And I use the paddle on the front of the throttle for strafe forward and back.
This gives me pretty much all the controls that a hosas would and I've still got the pinky rotary axis for thruster limiter. (throttle for decoupled mode is on the base of the stick but you could also use the rotary axis for that if you fly in DC a lot) The throttle has enough buttons that I haven't even used them all for SC.
Hi Jeff, it wasn't just the "sticky" throttle I was speaking about - since like you I've taken mine apart and done some extra work on it to improve the slide. The issue is simply one of distance - though I only noticed it during very precise exercises like air to air refueling where constant tiny adjustments must be made to the throttle on the F-16. The X-56 throttle has a longer range, so 1mm of travel is less input than on the TM16. If I had the pro-version of Tacview I would show you the throttle graphs on the two sticks. As far as SC goes - it isn't that you can't set up a throttle, but the entire set up is based around a HOSAS model. Admittedly I generally stick to mouse and keyboard in part because most new players use that and it helps to make tutorials using what they use but also just because I personally don't like the stick setup for SC. I play with a number who swear by HOSAS and HOTAS but it just never does it for me. I do however like using my X-56 throttle to make some silky smooth landings with the finer engine control than say the mouse wheel. Thanks for the comment! If you want to email me your bindings for SC I would love to take a look and give them a try. Submit@leadnap.com
Thank you very much for the review, lately, I've been having troubles with my 3d pro with the yaw and throttle so I wanted to get an idea of what's a good next stage upgrade, this looks like one of the top options for mid-price 👍👍nice video!
Very welcome!
VERY informative... I wasn’t sure about the throttle for a two engine plane and that what really made a difference for me. Thanks
You confirmed my BIAS. I got the ENTIRE tm1600 for 200 bucks. Stick, throttle and pedals.
Nice review! I have the Thrustmaster T-flight HOTAS and am enjoying it with playing Elite Dangerous. I am currently deciding to upgrade to the T.16000m HOTAS or the HOSAS even... thx for the review!
It maybe too late for the free giveaway chance, but this video has given me enough knowledge to make it my choice when I get the money for it. Fingers crossed I get can find a good enough sale.
the TM1600 dual stick setup is a great entry level dual stick.
This is a really nice in depth review and because of this is a really big help for someone looking to upgrade from the t-flight hotas. thanks man and keep up the good work
Not sure if mentioned but the stick throttle axis has H.E.A.R.T* magnetic precision technology. This is the same sensor as the Warthog at a fraction of the price. Roughly 16000 values per axis. I own this and granted it's not the warthog or X-56 however in terms of value it's unbeatable imo of course. Only one complaint in addition to this excellent videos list of issues is the Z axis potentiometer (twist) on the stick. Lots of complaints with random jumping and turning as it malfunctions. Tried to calibrate only to find it's hardware related and had to get a replacement. Best video on this product out there. Thank you for the time you put in showing off the value of this product!
Thanks that was very helpful. I had a frustrated in the late 90's and had left simulations for a while. Looks like Star Citizen pulls me back in. Thanks again
Thrustmaster
Been dying to get my hands on a dual stick setup! Specially for SC!
This has to be the best video on this topic. I have been looking for a HOTAS to get into DCS, IL-2 and other flight games but have had the issue of what HOTAS to get. The only ones in my price range really are the Thrustmaster TM16000m, the Logitech/Saitek X52 and X52 pro because the X-56 is impossible to find and a little more expensive than I wanted to spend at the moment. All videos on the topic are for space sims like Elite Dangerous and stuff and none review for real flight games. All the reviews were mixed, some preferred the X-52 while some the TM16000m. The Saitek looks more visually appealing but the TM16000m and TWCS throttle look "Cheap", although Thrustmaster seems to make better products and have better software. In the end, I just ordered the TM16000m and TWCS solely because of this video! It answered every question I had on which to buy for a beginner looking to get into DCS and other sims. Thank you
I'm on my fourth or fifth HOTAS at this point, and I still always compare them back to this one, the TM16000. It's got it's issues but it seriously has some of the best quality attached. Hope you enjoy yours!
@@Leadnap yeah, I just picked it up this afternoon. Got home and set it up but its gonna take a while to get everything all mapped out and stuff. What module would you recommend for a beginner in DCS. I was leaning towards the F-18C or the Mirage 2000.
That's tricky. How much flight experience do you bring to the table?
For the F-18 it's a great module to learn on because it's got tons of tools and in the "if you learn just one" this module will reward you handsomely never leaving you wanting for features the others have. The problem however is all this capability is locked behind a very advanced avionics suite - so you have to learn both how to fly and how to use the computer, which can be a challenge.
The M2000 is awesome because like the -18 you have an immense set of tools to work with, unlike the -18 there's no MFDs which means you're all switches to run the system. The Mirage also has some great features to help the pilot, which is great if you're newer to flying. Downside is even though the system is in English, it's also in French underneath so there are some stuff you just have to wrap your head around in French. If you learn it - M2000 is an incredible module. If you're looking for multiplayer squadrons you'll likely have to look to Europe, these are less popular elsewhere. The M2000 will also give you the ability to fly the new Mirage line coming, as they're earlier versions of the 2000 model.
My personal favorite, and my route, was through the Viggen. Often ignored but this module is quite sophisticated in capability but not in how to use them. You set up most of the systems on the ground so you focus primarily on flying the mission and the Viggen is remarkably user friendly and forgiving to newer pilots. It's in Swedish, but most of the aircraft runs on numerical code which is universal. There's an English pit mod that's great but I found the Swedish is easier (and I don't speak it!). Downsides are no AAR, primarily an A2G system, and squadrons are generally small and Swedish. It is however a fantastic bird to fly and learn to fly in.
The biggest thing I tell people is pick one and learn it - with a few exceptions most modules will reward you with capability. The -18 and M2000 are both solid choices. The M2000 may be the best right now just because if you master it, you're primed for both the Mirage F1 series release and to an extent the Typhoon which will wreck everything with the Magic capability for A2A. The -18 likewise gives you everything.
I love the Viper but we're still super feature incomplete - you're better going -18 and switching over later. Most importantly use freefly (now) and try a few out, pick one and learn it. Shoot me an email at submit@leadnap.com and I'll try to help/connect you in ways the comment section otherwise limits me.
@@brettblades9320 hows the 16000 going?
my friend bought t16000 hotas and Is very happy with it. I need to get one too
Thank you for the comparison of these options. I think I like the Idea of duel stick. I have been playing mouse and keyboard in Star Citizen and I am thinking about taking it up a notch.
If I ever buy a hotas I'll get myself a full setup with pedals included. Great video
Thank you for making this review, I've been considering picking up a HOTAS for war thunder and space engineers but couldn't find a review that really explained the difference between the three that you went over in this video. I almost bought the x52 but held off due to uncertainty!
I don't know what to get. X52 pro or t16000m
Thanks, I was hesitating between the T16000 or the X56 and it's now much clearer in my mind... Btw, love the background music
Thanks for the review. I've been wanting to get a hotas for my space sim games and I think I'm sold on the T. 16000m
I'm late to the party but this is a awsome in-depth showing. Thank you for all your hard work!
Thanks for the review. I wouldn't mind giving this a try for Star Citizen.
Fantastic review. Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts on this. I've been debating on what to upgrade to from my T.Flight Hotas X.
Great review and I'm sold.! I'm getting into sims and just waiting for MS2020 Flight Sim to hit the market. Thank you Sir!!
Thank you so much for the video.I just wanted to fix that actually you can adjust the stiffness in the t16000m I don't know if you are talking about stick or throttle but you can adjust for throttle. Thank you for video again it is a very helpful video :)
Hard to say if I would prefer HOSAS or HOTAS. Thanks for the review.
Interesting review. I never moved away from the T.Flight. It drove me crazy not having a set of pedals and going away from muscle memory of left right stick is roll and the knowledge that the budget pedals would only compound the problem. Got a set of crosswind pedals and just having that put so much life back into that inexpensive HOTAS. Looking at the next upgrade but my only two paths at this point are dual stick, which makes the 1600 attractive, or maybe something like the VIRPLE. In that order.
I am jealous of your Crosswinds. That was a part of my message here, the 16000 doesn't look fancy, doesn't do fancy - but I got solid use out of it and frankly am very disappointed in the quality of the X56 after having such a good quality set up.
You might want to check out the VKB Gladiator-K joysticks. They're much better constructed than the Thrustmaster ones, have a lot more buttons and hats, come in both left and right hand versions, and cost about half the price of Virpil joysticks.
@@alanhobson9121 Thanks for the recommendation. What I have is “serviceable” but I really would like more button options. Cost would definitely be a factor before the ones that I have “oops they broke”. LOL
Great review, I was on the fence regarding x56 vs tm16000M but you totally sold me on it
There are only two things that have me working on the X56 and not my TM16: the stick head and longer throttle arc. Otherwise I would turn back to the TM right now.
Aw sweet already entered. I watch for the SC, but this it’s tickling my flight sim interest. Maybe if I had a stick...
Well once you have that stick - DCS is free to play and comes free with the SU-27 and the P-51. Those are not "full" models but if you're looking for some hard studying and up for a challenge the professional flight model aircraft are unlike anything else. Eagle Dynamics is also working on releasing another game in tune with DCS that is more like Warthunder or World of Warplanes - less focused on the hard core flight model (but using their amazing 3-d models and VR) for players not looking to actually learn to fly a jet. Thanks!
Now I'm itching to try dual stick for Star Citizen. Thanks for the review. :)
Fantastic setup. I plan to get one hotas for my self asap
Well, with MFS 2020 coming up, this video finally convinced me to order the TM1600M!
Really nice, informative and entertaining review! Even as a complete aviation-noob I understood everything and learned a lot!
Thumbs up! :)
Glad! A heads up - TM has come out with a new Airbus version of this HOTAS which is generally a cosmetic difference though the right most button on the stick head was changed from the style it currently is to a round red button. I've got a four fundamentals of flight video in the works that might change your sim-flight world too so stay tuned! Have fun in the skies!
Then you should know after some months, the throtlle joystick will be pretty much fucked and so will be the rudder.I had a refund, too bad the hotas is really the best, but it's ot made for heavy gamers.
Thanks for the very informational video. i'm gonna wait on a sale to get the TM6100M
I think the hats on the throttle are really what interests me, for the viggen you dont need as many hats but theyre all there anyway, as you said its perfect for the viggen 👌
great coverage of this controller. just looking to get one but now thinking of the X56
Excellent review, thank you. Your review was the tipping point that made me buy the 16000 over the X56/52.
I'm glad you felt the way you did as I would have been very cautious about buying yet another logitech product (used to be the best around but they are cost saving everywhere they can to the severe detriment of the products quality (In the last 2 years I have had 3 mice break in under 6 months each as well as a powerplay matt that stopped charging beyond the 3 month mark, whereas their products used to be good for 4/5 or even more years). Anyway, sorry for the tangent. Thanks again.
hows the 16000 going?
So many coments and so few thumbs ups ?? I would give you multiple if I could. Great video
Thanks!
Hope we make it to 2k subs, your info on the controllers has helped me figure out what I want. Just sucks being poor, right everyone
We're close! Thanks for the comment.
What a description on your video! Starting my flight training soon and looking to build my own sim to practise my upcoming flights! Would love to get a chance with this one!
Sounds like a great setup. Good luck to all.
Great video, helped me decide what stick I'm going to purchase👌
Remember to cover the stick up after using it, so dust wouldn't be a problem later on!
I didn't care for my t16000 stick enough, and the z-axis has been randomly registering outputs in the neutral position. I read that it would be a quick fix to just clean the dust inside, but I am looking to buy a new t16000 set instead after watching this review and the x56 one.
Informative review. Thanks for the contest as well.
Good info! Keep the videos coming. I'm particularly interested in star citizen (if it ever gets released)
Nicely explained. TM16000M is really cool budget hotas
Thanks! Very informative and detailed.
Make a newone without the background noise.
Damn you why did I read this. Didn’t notice until I did.
A very nice review!
This looks like a great thing to have for playing star citizen :)
Already have and use a TM16000M HOTAS setup in Star Citizen. Just here to see others thoughts. When it comes to Flight in SC I can't believe I even tried KB+Mouse and wished I had ordered the TM HOTAS setup much sooner.
Nice review. Not quite at the point where I went to invest into SC outside of just keyboard and mouse. But always like to keep up to date on good products if I do reach that point
I fly 90% of the time with KB/M in SC. With the FPS element it just is too big a pain to switch constantly. I am experimenting with using just the throttle for precise landings, so far so good.
6:04 Damn, Lead. You have beautiful hands! XD
great video - thank you - have made up my mind - will be playing x4, ed and star citizen
Great review. Thank you so much.
Great video, problem is the high prices on joysticks in general. Darn scalpers!!
I can't wait this game to be released.
Been debating between this one and the X-56 for a hundred bucks more. I cant decide!
Thanks for the review.
Currently June 27, 2022, the TM16000 stick is $70, the throttle is $129 or both stick and throttle together $169 on Amazon so you save $30 together. I just added the throttle mid June 2022!
im gonna get this as my first setup
The droning tone in the background is killing me... my mind keeps relaxing and I lose focus on what you're saying. Just hummmmmmmmm... flying visuals. WAIT, what was he saying? Skip back 30s... repeat.
Best HOTAS review ever. Except for the hum. 😉
Currently using keyboard with stick, hotas would be my next go to
Great & constructive review, much appreciated.
In Elite Dangerous maybe the most important axis is the barrel roll. That is why it is assigned to the horizontal movement of the mouse. Then it feels like an airplane to control. Docking into a spinning station fast is a skill you can not have enough practice to do it perfectly. Especially with sports stadium sized ships has around a dozen feet left on the sides. That throttle control seems perfect for the job. Twisting the joystick feature not the best way to execute it.
While the throttle does occasionally can get "jammed", you can just wipe down the rails it sits on with a light grease and it will sing.
Im planning on buying my first joystick and I've planned on buying this ;3
just started on dcs and really want to buy the A10C or F-5E Tiger II for my first module.
This has been a great stick for me. On the DCS side - what are you enjoying doing in DCS? That really is what should guide module choice (which in turn also decides HOTAS choice...)
I love the term Hosas, for when your ex is giving you attitude.
i have been looking it to this for a while and have been waiting to get a throtle
i am getting an x52pro for Christmas. i was going to get this but i do some helicopter flying along with dogfighting and apparently it has a large dead zone which is not very good for heli’s then i looked at the x56 and i love how it looks and everything but god dam is it expensive i live in canada and it’s like 300$ also i have to keep in mind that this is going to be my first stick so there is no need to go buy to go buy the top of the line equipment or at least close enough seeing as i don’t even know if i like flying with a joystick yet. so i went back to look for a good but still reasonably affordable stick then i found the x52pro which is great it has a everything i personally need maybe other than split throttles and rudder pedals.
Ayee just got star citizen and my buddys say i need a joystick to really get into it. Been lookin and thrustmaster look'd like a good fit but not many videos on it, and I never used a joystick so I wouldnt know so thanks for the info
Background music makes me feel like I am ascending to heaven and being preached at the moment😂
Thanks for this review especially on how it reacts on diffrent flight models. Keep it up!
Really helpful review. thank you
Looks like a good value for the money.
Thanks for the review!
I love your review! I think I am going to buy the whole thing with its rudders.
Not a bad choice at all
@@Leadnap First I'll wait for my luck :D
T16000 is great and I hope someday I'll have ti. Nice video.
I love my 16000m and throttle. I'm looking to slap some nyogel in itand it will be even better.
had a small issue with the stick Z axis, squirted a little WD40 on the sensor and flawless now
Keep up the great work :) Love your videos!
This t16000 looks great. Good price and good quality.
A really nice review. I keep leaning towards wanting to try the stick, but it just seems so bad (other than the awesome internals). The amount of buttons on the stick is just making it such a hard sell. I love the throttle and have one that I've been using for a while now, but that T1600m stick is just .. meh. Those buttons on the base are kind of pointless to me. I would rather have more buttons on the stick where I can reach them without taking my hand off the stick. I would use my old Logitech Extreme 3d Pro before I bought a T1600m stick. 6 buttons and a hat just on the stick, another 6 on the base if you need them.
I really wish they would design a new stick to replace that 90's throwback looking stick. I would love those amazing internals on a more usable stick.
Ha that was my evolution lol. Still have not seen the need for virpels. Sticking with the TMs. It centers great. I made some chair design changes and vesa mounts and I now have what I think is a killer setup with the stick sitting where the are in the game oh you have girlie hands.
Thanks for this.
I'll let my wife know her hands are girly ;D though I agree 100%. A big part of this video for me was the hard lesson I learned that the TM16000 is honestly one of the best until you go into the high grade range. I am so disappointed with the X-56, I would return it if I could at this point because it is just garbage compared to the TM. Only thing it does better is actual throttle, and I really need the three hats on the stick for the F-16. Rumor is WinWing is going to make an F-16 throttle group so I am holding out for that. Irony was I had last year planned this to give away the X-56 not the TM16000 but the TM just is better and I would rather someone have quality over the "more expensive" one.
The only real shortcoming of the T 16000 is the lack of a second hat on the stick and a lack of buttons and switches on the throttle's base. If not for those things, I wouldn't even consider upgrading to the very expensive Virpil controls.
This is indeed a great hotas. The pedals are pretty good too
Like I said the only problem I have with the pedals is the space between them. They're otherwise fantastic.
I have the full set up and love it for SC.