This T16000M has never been SO GOOD | BlackHog B-Explore UPGRADE
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- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2024
- I love the T16000M Flight pack, but, the throttle has one big issue. If you have use the Thustmaster T16000M Hotas that comes with the TWCS controller then you know the sticking you have been dealing with. The TWCS slider is plastic on metal from the factor, because of this it is impossible to have precision throttle control. But there is a fix and its super simple to install and it will change your life.
I also noticed when I started playing VR, its hard to find the keyboard. So in addition to fixing it we are going to upgrade it with BlackHogs B-Explore hotas mount. This will make getting to all the frequently use buttons much better
BLACKHOG b-explorer
www.black-hog....
Plate
www.etsy.com/l...
Bearing plate
www.thingivers...
Linear Bearing
amzn.to/3sSmDsg
Filament used
amzn.to/3dxtK3g
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You don't have to go through all of this. I fixed mine. If you slide the throttle all the way up there's a hole at the bottom that lets you adjust the pressure on the rods. You'll also need lots of lubricant. You'll need special purpose plastic-safe lubricant, it's tough to find and expensive. What I ended up using is good old chapstick. I'm serious it works perfectly and has for almost a year now. I just use the plain type. You'll need to open the throttle and lube the metal rods.
Wow, I didn't know about that screw. I didn't have lube but slightly loosening up that screw helped so much. Thanks!
My Rubik’s cube lube worked wonders on mine.
@@joshbaker2398 I cube too! I'll bear this in mind when mine gets sticky!
2000 iq power play with the chapstick 😂
Where do I put the chapstick on?
Ok, just got the bearings in from Amazon and thanks to my 3D printer, this mod is complete. GAME CHANGER. Like you said, you can feel the bearing, but those micro adjustments are SO buttery smooth now. You sir, have my subscription. Thank you for making me aware of this awesome mod!
i saved my money and just turned the adjustment screw 720 degrees
@@SnapCracklePipthe difference is a billion times more accuracy and smoothness
I would LOVE to see more content like this from this channel.
From a video I saw, using nyogel 767a solves the sticky throttle problem and it also offers a bit of resistance so you can get that buttery smooth throttle control and make minor adjustments
I have on of the B-Explorer models. Mine is the Model C. I use it with my Warthog and it's all mounted to a sim rig. Love the entire setup.
I just sprayed some teflon lubricant on the rails and got significantly better results than factory. I'll have to keep this in mind when it eventually wears out and needs to be reapplied.
I picked up a model A B-explorer last year, really great add-on. Absolutely worth the money.
I did this upgrade at the end of last year. Honestly it was super easy I just messaged the seller on Etsy and he notified me when he had sliders available. Was definitely easy to deal with.
I’ve had this throttle controller for a year and the sticking action was the only gripe I had. Now it’ll be perfect, thank you!!!
My way of dealing with the sticking throttle is to apply a slight twisting force when manipulating it, and it works perfectly fine. I do with by pushing forward on the throttle with my thumb and pulling with my pinky as I move it. Doesn't take a lot, but the minor torsion force seems to do it for me.
It's awesome to see you're into VR!!!! I followed you for the crazy fan mods, but I own a T16000, so yay!
its an okay review but where is the smoke test tho ?
hahaha
Didn't get to see the noise meter to measure the throttle movement sound...
I got the new plate from Etsy and the bearings from Amazon . I was able to finish the upgrade in about 15mins TOTAL GAME CHANGER I am also using a white Teflon grease and its butter smooth now . I did also track down the upgrade for the flight stick as well and changed over from the pot to the hall sensor and that is more of a make it last longer kind of upgrade . I've had the upgrades in now almost two months . Totally worth it . I was going to upgrade to a new VKB when the T16000m flight stick died but I now think its going to live forever so if I change I'll have a back up . The throttle I will never change . As stated in the video I think it should come this way . i will also say that this upgrade is a gr8 way to get your feet wet with upgrades or repairs . Thanks for the info !
Holy Schnikies this is creepy. I clicked on your video because I am interested in the T1600M Hotas system...but the creepy part is that JUST before I clicked the video, I changed my wallpaper to the EXACT one you have in the video. *shiver
damn, subbed to this channel for fan showdown so was never expecting this video to solve this exact problem that I have! Just got a T1600m and I love everything about it except the sticky throttle, will definitely be trying this fix
Try Nyogel 767a damping grease. It is almost magical the improvement it makes
@@GuyFromJupiter this is the way. I did that and it's butter smooth. Plus it's fast and easy to apply.
Quick comparison video I took: ruclips.net/video/0WLdxTgobl8/видео.html
2 weeks after getting my t16000m HOTAS I tore it apart and re-greased both the stick and throttle with some of that Nyogel 767a damping grease, worlds different. My only gripe is the grease is a bit heavy for my tastes for the throttle, it moves buttery smooth and easy but has a bit more resistance than I would like when trying to quickly move the throttle which can result in it sliding or lifting off my desk since I don't have it mounted. Using it in the stick also made such a massive change, the t16000 stick has a really aggressive return to center in my opinion, the damping grease really slows this down and makes the stick feel much more precise.
@@Ender240sxS13 hi there! I’m asking in second doubt after doing through 2 different lubricating issues with the TWCS I see people saying the nyogel is the best stuff - I’m wondering is it really? I see it’s 2 bucks (not too much) there aren’t any long term gripes to worry about apart from occasionally re greasing it every so often?
@@krispyk.1786 shouldn't even need to re-grease it very often, been over a year since I did mine and I haven't needed to. Make sure you clean off all the old grease or oil you used before. It's a damping grease so its very thick and feels really sticky when you are applying it. Be generous with it and apply a lot. It has some initial sticktion after sitting for a while but once you move it once it is very smooth. It is quite thick/heavy so I had to loosen up the tensioning spring on the throttle a lot and it still has a lot of resistance.
Is it the absolute best? I don't know, I really like it and I have never seen anyone who has used it complain about it.
Oh and its formulated to be compatible with plastics so long term use won't damage things like some petroleum greases or oils will.
Hey, the B-Explore bezel plate seems like a _great_ use for 3D printing where you can make personalized bezels per-game, complete with logos using multi-tool printing.
I have that throttle and I use it as a collective mounted vertically on my chair. I love how it holds its position when you set a power setting
Is this the T16000M you are using for Heli Flying?
Love my 'hog, but I had to strip down the stick, sand down the injection molding bits on the ball and then re-lube it all. Totally worth it. It's buttery now, no more stiction. Total PITA and should not be needed for something that expensive.
If I were going to spend stupid money on a stick and throttle today I'd go Virpil.
I have fixed my throttle, what a difference. This is how this HOTAS should have been designed. That throttle mount seems interesting, might have to look into that.
nice story with the broken warthog I almost believed it until you popped in the comercial for the blaghog :)))) money if falling from your pockets and you cant' replace the warthog throttle lol
Thank you for this video. My dad printed out the tray and I purchased the bearings online. This made a world of difference.
If you want to make it even smoother, you can pack those bearings with grease before you install them onto the rods. They should have end caps to keep the ball bearings from falling out as well as to keep the grease in once they are packed. Any white lithium grease will work fine and it is normally only a few bucks at most hardware stores.
Also great stuff for the sliders and drive screws on 3D printers, makes it run deliciously smooth
also if you have any machinist friends, machinists oil is ALOT lighter than any grease and is commonly used in conjunction with linear rails.
I have lithium gel
Short tip which helped me with my warthog throttle. Plug it in via an passive USB hub. Hub does not need to be supplied. Mine works since then fine. Several month now.
I put teflon pads in the plastic part interfacing with the rods and lubricated it with very thin silicone oil. Works okay.
Just made mine... out of a small piece of wood and epoxy to 4 linear bearings... works a treat!
Bought the T16000m just a few days ago and was quite mad when it got stuck on small and fine movements... so i took the baseplate off, cleaned the rods, took some tension from the spring, lubed it up in teflon based lubricant. and now i can move it with my pinky :D you can easily change the spring tension when closed back up again as some mentioned before. just look push the throttle up all the way and look for the silver screw
I re-lubed mine with silicone grease and now it's the best throttle I've laid my hands on. No need for modifications.
I got a very similar kit off Etsy that came with a magnetic detent. I had put Nyogel 767a on the stock slider and it helped very much, but I love the linear bearing slider.
You can get replacement boards for the warthog throttle. I replaced my brothers earlier this year. $40 if I remember right. Plug and play.
I have the same problem, where can I get board?
I was wondering how to label everything and thankfully I watched till the end.
For folks w/o 3d printers: if you do some internet searching there is usually a few small print shops and/or tool sharing coops or maker spaces if you are in a larger city that can get you access or print things for you. There is a cost but if you have one part you need it can be a life saver.
rip the warthog ... i love mine like a son . never leave me warty boi
I wouldn't give up on the warthog. I know you have good soldering skills, could be worth some more research. Give the PCB a good look for bad joints, give it a few probes around the input, I'm sure you'll be able to isolate the problem. I have no clue if replacement parts are available, but if they are, I'm extremely confident you can repair it.
probably a cap dried up
Pretty embarrassing for such an expensive set. My $25 Extreme 3D Pro has tanked abuse for the last 6 years haha
@@RhodokTribesman been so long since i watched this i forgot the context.
But after watching again, what do you think about powdered graphite as a lube on stock parts rather than modding for the bearings?
@@Druid_Plow NEVER use graphite for electrics, it's conductive. I've heard nyogel does wonders for even the stock rails and stick
@@RhodokTribesman I did not consider the conductive part there, very good catch on that.
I'm not familiar with nyogel but will definitely look into it. My next thought would be white lithium grease, or full on bearing grease like you find in an auto parts store.
keep up the great work man
@N. Warner I was super early to a video and wanted to show him that I support the video content hes creating. I don't even use or care about the flight sticks. I hope your day gets better.
I cleaned off all the grease and put in some graphite powder. Now it is much better. I also place the heal of my hand on the base and make adjustments with my fingers.
I used the twcs with this mod for a couple years before I got the VKB throttle. It served me very well with helicopter flight and much more besides.
There is a screw on the bottom of the T16000 throttle to adjust the friction. So if your one issue is that it's sticky and doesn't give you precise control over the throttle you need to go look up that screw. I think you can reach the screw from the bottom plate when you push the throttle all the way forward. You'll see what looks like a useless empty hole suddenly is filled with the head of a screw. Turn that 1/4 or 1/2 turn in either direction and test if it's better or worse. I did this on mine years ago and it makes a world of difference. I had so much friction on mine that my attempt to push the throttle forward was actually overcoming the friction of the rubber pads and sliding the entire device across my desk.
I fixed my T16000 TWCS throttle for cheaper and no new parts needed. I loosened the adjustment screw on the slider plate, and used Tamiya Cera-Grease to lube the rails. It's smoother than linear bearings, in fact it caused a new issue in that my chair mount needs to be 100% level if not it will slide down the rail! (I tightened the adjustment screw just a slight bit and that issue went away)
I cannot wait to get into DCS once flight sim equipment has come back towards normal pricing.
When covid ends, most of newly printed money will move from stock markets into rest of economy we will see quite big inflation
I mean I got my twcs throttle in this video on ebay for 98$ there all over in the USA and my vkb Sim gladiator nxt premium for like 150$-180$ so there not much you have to look hard bud
(Scratches arm) hey, you got any fans for me?
ruclips.net/video/846brYzqOJQ/видео.html
@@FixingWithFriends a futuristic masterpiece compilation of content
Thanks for the info. What worked on my T16000 was to clean rails and use a tiny amount of lanoline oil. Probably not quite as nice as the bearings upgrade.
I had the exact same problem with this, I found that loosening the flat-spring which holds the slider to the rails worked great. But now I've seen this I think Ill upgrade. Thanks!
Signed up for the fans, got quality content as a bonus.
That's funny, I clicked onto this video because I wanted to let you know about those Etsy bearings.... Also, another solution is the Nyogel 767a that improves the TM T16k stick, also helps the throttle. And I agree, the TM FWCS is an excellent throttle, far better than its price tag implies. It has a nice variety of buttons, but mainly, it's the slew stick, and the rudder paddles that make it shine.
However, I moved to the Virpil, and it IS better. While I knew about that bearing upgrade, I learned about it after I had already ordered the Virpil. So my question to you is this, the thing that makes the Virpil superior to the TM isnt all the buttons and such, they're just convenient. What makes the Virpil better can be measured when you're trying to do air refueling in DCS. You're trying to make your plane go from 306 to 307 knots to move up a little on that fuel boom. My experience with the TM is that if you manage it, you were lucky. With my Virpil, I can do it reliably. Air refueling with the FWCS, even after I nyogelled it and loosened the tensioners some was frustrating.
My experience with the thrustmaster throttle was terrible at first. The way it would stick was no fun and just felt cheep af. My brother in law found out about nyogel 767a.
We applied it to the rails and the plastic slider and wow!!! It feels amazing, like your throttle is actually attached to something.
It feels hydraulic somehow. Heavy.
Dude i LOVE this kind of content, and I'd love to see way more of this in between fan tournaments!
I'm considering buying a T16000M but have been a little turned off by comments about the throttle. I like the idea of a slide, but I wouldn't want it to feel grainy and sticky. This upgrade looks like a really cool idea. I hope I can get ahold of one of these 3d printed plates!
Just lube the rods. You can also loosen a screw by a smidge i believe you get to it where you push the throttle all the way forward
When working with something complex I always take a photo or 2 ,just in case I can't remember how something fitted or which way round it went . Simple but works.
Make sure ya know how to lubricate these bearings, and when using 2 in the same rod, you have to offset the bearings a certain way. Also, before using them, it's a good idea to soak them in IPA to get the anticorrosion grease they are packaged in off before greasing them.
But again, this is for a game controller, so it probably doesn't need as much prep as it would for what I'm used to using them for.
I've fixed broken joysticks, gaming wheels, and so on before... They're easy to take apart and in a lot of cases the problem is easy to spot... if you want - take a few pictures after taking it apart ( when you separate the two haves, there may be additional parts for the throttle area, or buttons which may want to come out - you don't have to fully disassemble, just open it enough to take some photos and we can see if it is a simple problem...
A lot of them use grease for lubricating the pots, so maybe it was conductive and you had a few hot days? Maybe the wire just got pulled slightly and the wire snapped - so you can take a simple meter with a continuity alarm and check each pin from the usb to the end point on the board and if one part stops then it is just the usb cord... it could also be a cap not getting enough power in order to jump start it...
Although --- I had this problem on another, and it wasn't a problem. It was a wrong setting - some usb devices, when you plug them into different slots, their power settings reset so ensure the turn off to save power thing is disabled... additionally, you could be plugging the device into front headers which may not have enough juice - try a different one in the back, or plug it into a simple phone charger and see if the lights stay on - if it does then it is a power delivery issue. If it doesn't, then it is likely the caps, maybe an issue with the cable - you can wiggle it to see if it comes on / off... etc...
Thanks man, it was a struggle to fly in formation with my t16000m from the start and I tried different lubes. It did not help. It was so from the beginning and I thought I was trash at flying. Now I can blame it on my hotas :D
i think you'd be even happier with igus bushings. they'd be quieter and not so crunchy. it might be nice to put a bushing on that pivoting arm linking to the potentiometer too, or construct a completely new geometry to transfer the linear motion to the POT with a belt and pulley from your printer spares. i imagine that bolt sliding in the groove effects the smoothness/stickiness of the motion quite a bit.
How interesting, that same issue with your warthog throttle happened to my TrackIR5 Camera, had to send it back for a replacement.
one of the points of buying a really premium product is paying for that excellent customer support behind it, if you feel your Thrustmaster burned out early, contact their CS and get it fixed
I have TWCS throttle and real solution is damping grease, specially designed to combat stick-slip. Now I can move throttle by a fraction of a mm at a time without any problems. Those linear bearings look nice though.
So they could have greased it and solved all the problems? Or was it greased already?
i got one from blackhog and its the BEST buy... must to have!
there is a friction screw in the bottom of the TWCS throttle, loosening that all the way and a couple drops of machine oil on the rails, and it moves with ease and precision.
You should get rid of the grease, it is not the right thing to lubricate those bearings. Clean everything very well, even the bearings, use some brake cleaner oder a heavy duty degreaser, soak them so all residue is gone and then get some oil, put a good amount inside the bearings and then back on the rod. The wiper seals should keep it mostly inside. The grease tends to stick the bearing balls rather than making them move freely and sometimes the corrosion inhibitor they use on cheaper bearings gums up, over time. Hope I could help, really enjoy your channel
I would challenge you to print that plastic plate in Delrin aka POM (Yeah difficult to print Hint: Use Glass bed with 100% cotton glued to it as a print surface).
:D Maybe make it a challenge with designs as well.
Or you could just buy a sheet of EZ Stick Hot made by GeckoTek for ~$20 and not go down the path of trying to put cotton onto glass; that just sounds like a nightmare. I haven't had an issue printing even the most exotic of materials onto the EZ Stick. Doesn't even need glue as a release agent like many others do so that there isn't any permanent bonding.
@@dhoyda Have you ever tried printing Delrin? It doesnt stick to anything so hence cotton, and a glass plate is cheap and easy to procure compared to an item that is rarely available.
Got to get yourself a Virpil HOTAS... I currently use two Virpil VPC Constellation ALPHs (Left hand and right hand versions for Elite Dangerous). The quality is insanely good for the money...
I just bought the twcs throttle. Looking forward to trying it out in dcs now that I have more buttons
My text should come out green in this comment out of sheer envy, that's a lovely setup you got there and I hope you fix that Warthog thrust controller. I've been saving up for a used x52 but between the 'rona and other things it's out of the question, so back to playing on a steam controller. That being said, it'd be a cool project to DIY build one of those control panels, using maybe a gutted 360 controller (don't even try with the PS ones, they have flex circuit boards inside, not really nice for hacking)
GameGlass on your phone would be outstanding in that holder
Much simpler fix the the FCS Throttle stickiness: Nyogel 767A dampening grease. You remove the grease that is already on the rails and use this stuff, and you'll be amazed. This was a popular hotas for Elite Dangerous years ago, and I fixed a bunch of throttles for people with this stuff.
Man I wished I've seen this solution back before I bought my warthog... Still would've bought the warthog... 😁 jokes aside, I think I might try to get these bits and make the throttle usable and keep it as a backup
Cell Phone holder is for Game Glass, an app for phones to help with flight/space sims.
mmm ideas. I'd love to 3d print a panel similar to this. and the mount like that gave me great ideas. Might have to sketch something up later.
I replaced the grease with an oil, not sure if it was PTFE or Graphite multi oil, either way, the TWCS is now extremly precise and smooth.
I wondered if you ever tried the IL2 Cliffs of Dover flightsim, was abdoned but is now awakening back to life since TFS modding group is now official. Alot don't know about it because they think BoX engine is more modern.
I have used voice control for flight sim. It was free and works great. I use it for things like "gear up/down" or "flaps up/down" etc.
How? I’d love that!
Wow, this model is new, it wasn’t there the last time I checked, it’s a copied design of the Etsy one (he was the first one to make it). In the file is basically the same magnet riser, I designed for myself...
did this mod on day 2 of owning the twcs
I used 3d printed ptfe lined bushings instead of the linear bearings
(just a printed adapter with a 8mm ID PTFE tube inside reamed to precisely 8mm)
2:26 - 2;34. 😂😂😂 im dying, you get a like for that alone lol
thanks for the video. just ordered a plate/bearing set for my T16000M from that Etsy-seller CoreHawk3D - what grease do you recommend? I already put some Nyogel 767a on my sliders and I wonder if this is maybe bad for the bearings due to the much higher "stickyness" . Also there are different bearing types available: Polymere or Metal , what is better?
I didn't know that ball bearings could fit there, I really have to upgrade mine!
Another really popular fix for the sticky throttle behavior is to re-grease it with an actually high quality damping greasy, the Nyogel 767a grease is the most common one used for this, it makes a world of difference for both the throttle and re-greasing the stick massively improves the feel of it, it slows down the really aggressive return to center spring action that the t16000m has.
love using thrustmaster products, but they ALWAYS have crap construction issues
The warthog is well known for breaking due to various reasons. Sadly very little options are availabe if you don't want to go all out and get expencive high end hardware. Logitech has got the x56 ofcause but many do prefere the x52 pro. I luckily got the older Saitech version (before Logiech bought them). At the end even though many like to argue around what is "best" it is more about what fits your needs and for what games you use it for. There is no best... This addition though looks great and is a really nice idea !
If you don't have a 3D printer, you can also use Shapeways to have the necessary parts printed and shipped to you.
Nice. Would love to seee some igus bearings on that
I just put some grease on the rails and it is sliding like butter now, no friction at all
I think it's elite dangerous time
It's a cool game, but it was really disappointing that the ship flight is designed more like aircraft than spacecraft.
...Unless that has changed since launch.
Die Schubhebel ganz nach vorne schieben und unten die schraube etwas lockerer schrauben und der Hebel ist super leicht zu schieben ( Unterseite ist ein loch Hebel nach vorne und dann taucht eine schraube auf :) drehen und alles ist gut )
I think roller bearing is an overkill for the friction problem. it's cause by an adjustable friction pad (bad design), just lighten or remove it completely.
mine is re-grease and adjust to very low friction. it's slide may be too easy with my thump and index finger. it flop full travel when tilted.
this develop my bad habit of bouncing throttle back and forth while AAR . because it too light action.
recently re-grease again with nyogel 767 left over from my warthog. now it's smooth with no stiction but with damping, small adjustment is easier when AAR.
i have the canadian version of the upgrade and is very game changer for tm16000
"Everytime i put my headset on im always like *Grabs everything on desk and destroys monitor in process of trying to find keyboard*"
It can be the cable or the base of the cable. I replace it and now working. Thx for your videos
It's almost a wonder they haven't made a new driver standard just for flight style systems and Advanced control sets like that.
Like they've done with the standardized controllers like Xbox and PSX types. For the most part though, it seems like even older hardware from way back still works just as well as new stuff too. Assuming it's not worn out.
I'm a little late here, but most Libraries these days offer 3d printing as some kind of service.
That part isn't very big either. There is probably a way to print it for a few bucks locally.
Pretty sure the T16000 throttle/TWCS uses a potentiometer. The 16000 stick has Hall-effect sensors.
It's great out of the box. Give it time. Sensors don't take long to start going out. Mine is currently sitting in the city dump.
You can replace the button box with a 10€ numpad keyboard. Not so nice, but it works good enough.
lol u look like the cop from stranger things... thanks for the review!
May I suggest swapping out those LM08UU bearings for Drylin RJ4JP-01-08 bushings? It would help remove some more static friction and reduce noise if those factors are still of any concern.
Daaaammmnnnnn!!! Another blow to my credit card this spring! :/ Thanks A LOT! O_o lol...not sure whether to be happy or sad/angry about stumbling on this video :P
You might be able to contact TM customer support and get a new PCB. I've done this twice One was my dog eating the cord, the other was the PCB shorting out. They charge about 40-50$ but they should send you a new PCB
G'day Major,
although this video topic is not relevant to me as I don't fly planes, I do like your content that shows what Peripherals are available for SIM Games as some of them are Genius at helping Immersion,
I enjoy driving in EuroTruckSim & have a Logitech Momo Wheel & Pedal set for my PC, I got it for $0.99AUD on Ebay & it was local so no stupid shipping costs 😁, now after using it for quite a while I would like to upgrade to a Logitech G923 as it is also compatible with my PS4 & Gran Turismo,
I also like Train Sims & have a couple of them too, maybe it is because I suffer Sever Anxiety 😬 which causes Agoraphobia & they let me go sightseeing in a comfortable setting
IGUS makes polymer bearings that would fit that design same same. Not sure if that would be better tho
instead of getting a plate and bearings....just use nyogel to lubricate the rods. it's a viscous gel that gives you that OHSOGOOD feel. Gives you enough resistance to allow precise control.
You don't need to put bearings in that throttle, just clean the old grease off and put some Nyogel 767a grease on it - it will give it the perfect resistance but remain smooth all the way through - it's night and day.
Great info! Is that the short, compact or long base plate you are using?