I've been playing the game with Xbox One controller since the day1. I've then upgraded to Elite controller which gives you more freedom to bind different actions. The pad works great but I've been thinking about upgrading to dual sticks for quite some time now. I've never really looked that deep into different setups but this video made it really clear how they work. Excellent pack of information! Will definitely come back to rewatch this when I get new dedicated gaming room and it's time to get the new set of controllers.
Thank-you that was a nice summary of the options. I've been using a seat mounted Virpil HOSAS set-up with pedals for some years now. Yaw on the rudder pedals, since this reflects full size aircraft practice.
Agreed. But I often get asked how I can control yaw well enough on a twist. I do see there point. But I'm also from a long line of current fighter/flight sims so I gotta have roll on the X axis. Avenger One says when in combat in SC, its always best to roll and pitch into your desired point. So roll on X seems legit to me. I know a couple folk who were new to sticks for SC and put roll on twist, then they tried doing a flight sim and found themselves really messed up.
@@festersmith8352 yeah yaw doesn't seem as important to me as in a dog fight you need the combination of roll and pitch together, and it makes the stick feel one with the ship
I started with m&k then went to HOTAS w/pedals then finally settling on HOSAS w/ pedals. Definitely adds to the immersion. Pair it with some kind of head tracking and it definitely feels like you are in the cockpit. Hell of an investment, but if you have the money and want to add the immersive factor in it is definitely worth it!
i'm on the same route as you, started with hotas, now have hosas, soon will have pedels. also have tobii for head tracking. I keep debating if I want to get a throttle as well or just use my old x52's throttle if I ever need it, keep eying the virpil one to go with the rest of my kit though.
@@Eggsecuter depends on the brand really, that said i'v got all Virpil and i'm prob about 1.5k in those plus head tracking. I don't know about other brand's pedels, but I know a popular stick is the VKB gunfighters and those are like 150 each IIRC. like anything your paying more for quality and demising returns.
I do have a virpil hotas with pedals and i find it very hard to control my ship if i use the pedals for rolling. On the other hand binding yaw to them feels more natural and has an easier learning curve. Pedals are not meant for rolling imo.
Yeap, imo pedals are not suitable for roll and are a waste on a $200 peripheral. I use mine like one would on a car. I find it much easier to match the speed of my opponent.
Try the toe brakes as forward / back strafe. Similar to a car, we drive every day. Dont use the center axis at all. Warning - do NOT bind any 1 axis to more than 1 input. Example - roll on both stick and pedals. The game lags when switching between them.
I use a unique layout for HOSAS + Pedals: Right stick Y: pitch Right stick X: yaw Pedals: Roll Left stick X: strafe forward/back Left stick Y: strafe up/down Left stick twist: strafe left/right It's not intuitive at first and took me a long time to get used to. But I like this layout because I have more precision on my strafe up, and throttle forward, than my strafe left/right, which I like. The second layout you mentioned, with throttle forward/back on the pedals, and roll on the twist, may be optimal though.
I feel like yaw and roll would be swapped around in most situations for me. Although actually that said, I get now why the set up as you have it described would make aiming much easier.
Liked,Subed,Belled,Commented. Any chance of some file downloads for the different setups for Star Citizen. I am new to this and it a bloody nightmare tiring to figurer it out. Great Video Mate. It was well done. I wish I had seen it about 2 weeks ago, I would of gone duel stick not the X56.
2 VKB sticks as HOSAS, left one is with the z adapter. First time using such setup as of last week. Can attest - never going back to Kb+mouse for flying; it is not the same. BTW I have twist on right one for roll and strafe up/down on the left, no pedals but it is an option for some.
I use similar controls to your self except with the roll on the left twist instead of the pedals, i cant aim as well as i could with mouse but its much more fun using a stick to aim and i think thats more important than having pin point accuracy, especially with all the aim assist stuff added in recent years.
I have been researching sticks for a while and discussing it with people but this video by far made more sense then my last year of research. Thank you for this!
IMO Pitch should be stick forward and back Roll would be stick left and right, Yaw would be pedals, Throttle is obviously Throttle Strafe would be mini joystick, More realistic that way
Awesome video! Great summary. I can definitely recommend joysticks over mouse. The only issue is super-precise aiming for me. As in tracking a pixel-sized enemy that i moving diagonally. I started with Thrustmaster T Flight X Hotas. It was great, but very soon it became clear that I need more accuracy. Plus I needed something sturdier. I went all in and bought Hotas Warthog. It was a huge step up, but soon I found myself lacking axes and controls on the throttle weren't exactly intuitive (except forward and back). So I got myself cheap T Flight Rudder Pedals from Thrustmaster to get some more axes. They were horrible and broke within a week. So I knew I had to go for quality. Precision, movement, durability. I chose MFG as they were the most praised back then. (Had to wait 3/4 year for them...). The setup was getting better and better and finally I replaced the Warthog throttle with T16000M. I am very happy with it. I might upgrade to something more expensive later on, but I find the setup "complete". I have enough control so that my flying is not limited by hardware, only by my skill. A note why T16000M joystick is an excellent choice: It has magnetic tracking. Your deadzone won't degenerate because of overuse. Not as soon anyway. ;) And last note: Seats. Although they do look great and and feel great and increase the immersion by bother level, make sure you have a keyboard and mouse handy. Especially if you are using VR as well. Getting out of the VR chair every time you need to use a keyboard or a mouse is quite a nightmare. So if you're going for a chair, do make sure you have easy and comfortable access to the keyboard and mouse.
I had Thrustmaster X Hotas available to use when I first got star citizen. They worked good but were too sensitive when it came to light fighters, making non gimbaled weapons almost impossible to use. I ended up buying two VKB Gladiators when they were on sale. Wow, the controls are so much more precise. I still suck as a light fighter pilot, but I am slowly getting better, and I can actually target ships with them. I don’t have pedals, so I use the left stick rotation for up/down movement. I might buy the slanted adapter in the future so it feels more natural, and maybe pedals. Anyone on the fence with purchasing a stick over Keyboard and mouse, I’ll just say it increases the enjoyment of flying x10.
Been a long time star citizen fan who left to come back to it when it was playable. For me that was 3.16 and the decision to go joysticks came real soon after. I went with VKB Gladiator NXT EVO with Omni throttle for left hand and VKB Gunfighter MK3 ultimate both with twist. I also got the rail mounts from monstertech and I can say it's heaven right now. Just flying around is a Joy with joysticks (heh). Highly recommended for SC and plus future space games.
i have VKB NXT Gladiator premium for right hand and VKB NXT EVO with OMNI Throttle for left hand. The Omni Throttle is a cool compromise between Throttle and joystick. You have the full range of a joystick and the feeling of a throttle. And if you want you can change the EVO into a full trottle by blocking the left/right direction. VKB is very cool when it comes to customisation. Also i like the buttons on the bases. I am looking forward to some extensions for more buttons. And to answer your question in the tittle. YES, using HOSAS or HOTAS is a game changer. i highly recomend. also i recomend a HOSAS setup.
@@CaptinLongdong1 they are great. i use them for quite a while now. I even added a SEM (side extension module). Its fun, its cool and it seems very durable. Also i think, dual stick (HOSAS) is the most recommended thing when it comes to fly a space craft.
@@RedLir_Live i know! But VKB makes it different! Y-Axis is a Throttle (without springs) and the X-Axis is the the optional Strafe Axis with springs! So you can handle it like a classical Throttle but you can use X and Z-Axis for strafing! And there is no conflict between and feels simply awesome!
HOSAS is the best in Star Citizen Price from high to low : Virpils -> VKB's -> TCA Airbus or T16000M -> any other common dual stick setup Performance high to low: Virpils = VKB, both behave like scalpel to an axe compared to Thrustmaster sticks, are net superior Virpil and VKB are pretty much the same as performance but Virpil is twice the price so it does not worth invest. Unless you are Terada 🤣 Throttle is useless in Star Citizen pretty much. Mouse and keyboard favors aiming better though, but it's nothing compared to broken relative OP mouse as in Elite where it's 100% like an aim assist for impared 😁 And all mousers defeat HOTAS/HOSAS users easily cause rails are just point and shoot. Oh and of course, pedals is a must for HOTAS/HOSAS setup so I need pedals now. I use VKB's
This is THE video I’ve been searching so long for with regards to flying in star citizen! Thank you for laying out exactly what I’ve been needing to know about all these controls. Subscribed now cheers 👍
Thanks, Isaac. They're a great starting point depending on the setup you use, but also don't be afraid to tweak things to suit you as you get comfortable with a setup. Cheers!
I don't have this game currently but have been watching a lot of videos and thinking about it. Coming from flight sims for over 25 years, and being in the USAF for over 30 working on and knowing about aircraft...maybe space stuff might be different, but for flight sims and aircraft in general the left/right axis is roll and twist or rudder pedals are always yaw. It just seems strange to swap roll and yaw to me, but to each his own...lol.
It's a common remark. In SC ships have maneuvering thrusters that allow for 6DOF and don't follow your traditional atmospheric flight model. Pitch and Yaw have equal power where as in real flight, Roll and Pitch would be the primary 'aiming' axis since Yaw isn't useful for fine aiming. Roll is still important to the point I would recommend pedals long term, but Pitch and Yaw on the same stick creates a powerful aiming device especially in dog-fighting. Of course the answer for you is to use what's comfortable to you, but if someone is approaching SC without any background in DCS, these are the configs I would recommend as there is no muscle memory. Cheers!
I think the halfway solution of the omni throttle deserves a mention. a stick with angle and removed spring for foward/backward behaves and feels exactly like a throttle with the addition of strafe axis.
I stupidly bought the Thrustmaster 1600 and I give it an F for Fail. The HOTA no longer works correctly and when used makes the ships impossible to fly correctly. The stick has such a large dead spot around the center it is impossible to do any kind of precise maneuvering. Will be replacing soon.
Mouse and Keyboard for PVE， HOTAS for PVP ^_^ can never get used to HOSAS，but now that you mapped it out, I am incline to give it another shot, thanks my friend.
What is your current setup? Is the left stick the Gladiator NXT EVO Omni Throttle? If I am reading about that correctly it looks like it can be used as either a second stick or locked into being a throttle. This interests me because I want to try a HOSAS setup for Start Citizen but I also have a friend getting into Star Wars Squadron and want to play with him where I think more of a standard throttle can be better.
In the video the left is a Virpil WarBRD with the z adapter. Currently I'm testing my VKB gunfighter 3 with the Space Combat Grip on their angled adapter, I don't use omni throttle though. On the Gunfighter Omni would be achieved by removing the Y spring and tightening down the dry clutches. I'm not sure how they do it on the NXT EVO but I assume it's similar.
I don't know why but i was never able to get used to twisting my stick to roll. It has to be yaw for me. VKB seems to be an affordable brand, but unfortunately at least over here in the EU they are constantly sold out
VKB is mostly a high end brand a bit similar to Virpil, not an affordable brand. That said, they do have the Gladiator sticks which occupy a pretty nice spot between high end and basic sticks, but that is the exception.
Another alternative is a 3D mouse, which is basically a joystick with all 6dof on the same hand. It may be less competitive than hosas because everything is on the same hand plus it has lower precision, but it works quite nicely for casual flight. It also pairs well with a regular mouse for improved aiming.
I'm running Dual VKB NXT Gladiators sticks. one of these has the omni throttle attachment to angle the stick. The key binds I'm running are from Buzzkiller(found on RUclips.). It has made the greatest single boost to my game enjoyment. I did use to run a single VKB NXT Gladiators Stick and keyboard and just recently crossed over to 2 joysticks. If you can afford it go for it.
Didn't you mixed yaw and roll ? Because real planes have yaw on the base rotation of the stick and/or transferered to the pedals. (named Rudder pedal) Yaw pedals especialy helps pilots to turn when on the ground (while the other hand carefully manage the thrust). You can visually see the yaw axis on the planes pedals deisgned like an handlebar of a bike. For helicopters too, both pitch and roll helps to precicely tilt the hellicopter. The pedals manage the yaw rotation around the main rotor by powering more or less the tail rotor. Edit: It's your configuration is irregular. Most config are like irl with yaw on the pedal. In you case, you switched roll and yaw to help you keep a symetry between the yaw rotation on the right hand, and the left-right translation on your left hand. but it's not common to see.
left stick: x is left/right y forward/back i have up/down on ministick right stick: x yaw y pitch twist roll thumbs do power management, constant up/down strafe, speed limiter. boost is on my left pinky button. i have dual gladiator nxt premiums
I was thinking about getting a flight stick. Most likely Logitech and maybe with the thrusters. But I have a 3dconnexion I would like to use instead of a thruster. What’s your opinion on the 3dconnexion with a flight stick? And will the pedals be worth it, when using a flight stick with 3d connection?
Amazing breakdown. That said - X axis is aeleron (roll) and twist is yaw, like non negotiable as an actual pilot XD Twin stick looks amazing. Thanks for this video!
Understandable for someone coming from a flight or DCS style background. The logic for SC is based on 6DOF and yaw having the same authority as pitch for aiming the nose of the ship ( in conjunction with roll). Living on the same stick makes an aiming device, similar to having the u/d/l/r strafes on the left stick. In real flight of course, pitch and roll are the primary aiming tools and you don't have mav thrusters to micro aim with strafes.
@@RedLir_Live Oh yea, I follow the line of thinking. Honestly, a good human could adapt to anything. I just know my brain is really hardwired to flight surface control, of course.
I’m coming from just FPS games, aiming, sniping with 800DPI for years. I thought HOSAS is going to be great for space flight. But I’m starting to think HOSAM will feel More intuitive and will keep my precise aim of mouse but I just wanna get rid of the absolute inputs of the keyboard. So I’m thinking start with 1 trustmaster T16000M, maybe get a second one later.
I really had a hard time using mouse and keyboard, So I switched to a x-box controller. For getting started its actually a really good, the switch after almost year to HOSAS was pretty small.
Thank you for the quick down and dirty for sticks. I wasn't aware of the HOTAS....HOSAS...ECT. This gets me a starting point and I appreciate your input thanks
I glued some short little tubes to the joysticks on an old PS4 controller..I use the sticks as, well sticks with my thumb and forefinger/middle finger, left bumper is my modifier with my ring finger, the triggers are my foot pedals/strafe with my pinkies, d-pad is ship controls like landing gear...It's a little on the tight side but it saved me from having to buy a whole new setup right away.
So I use a setup I don't see discussed much down in the comments : HOSAK - Pitch/Yaw/Roll on my right, and thrust on my keyboard. This let's me use a classic WASD+Ctrl+Space as well as giving me access to my keyboard keys for hotkeys. Thanks for the video. I learned something
The Warthog throttle absolutely does have an analogue mini stick on the index finger in the same position as the T16000M placement. I wouldn't recommend the Warthog though, because it's made to replicate the real controls as closely as possible, the throttle isn't particularly ergonomic, and the buttons and switches on both stick and throttle are VERY heavy, which feels amazing at first, but for gaming just ultimately slows your control of the ship
odd side note pertaining to the t.16k's: due to the position of the magnetic sensor they use, if you live in an environment with iron rich soil, the magnet will accumulate ferrous material over time, which will start throwing phantom inputs, but fixing it is as simple as opening up the stick and cleaning the magnet, although it's better to just order the VKB sticks as your entry level purchase, cause they're superior in every measurable capacity.
As my first step from Keyboard and Mouse, I'm looking to go for HOSAM, but with a couple of twists: - I have a mouse that has a 4-way castle and can be rolled in addition to traditional 5-6 button mouse options (Lexip Pu94), and - Will be getting a left stick that has an omni-throttle styles Z-extension. Looking to have rolling the mouse as roll, to pair with the traditional mouse pitch and yaw, and have the forward/back on left twist, to use the left stick as up/down/left/right as you mentioned later in the video. Unconventional, but I think it should be fun.
Dual Virpils here, i flipped yaw and roll though as i feel it makes more sense. Twist to turn lay the stick over to roll, you're doing the action you want the ship to emulate.
I use the Logitech X52 pro throttle with a mouse. The X52 pro stick base makes it to high to be comfortable to use, its a shame as it has loads of buttons you can configure. The throttle is good, I use it thrust forward, slider thrust backwards, hat switch strafe up, down, left and right. Top rotor, roll left right, bottom rotor mining laser, and the buttons for normal tasks.
CGI needs to fix the game first?? I got ejected while fighting with athe F button on a door right out into space from a space station??? This game is so Bugged & the Server LAg is Horrific as well. 4.0 better fix everything or im leaving this shit game again but for good.
That was fantastic thank you, a great overview to point people in the right direction. I needed this, because the happy puppy inside me was just going to buy it all..!
Even if joysticks don't make you a PvP PGM, it really makes the experience more immersive and increases a bit the manoeuverability versus keyboard/mouse (personal feeling here). But what I love most is the pedals, that really improves the experience over just 2 joysticks.
Still K+M with head track. As immersive but without learning curve or frustration. Am I a great pilot? No! Especially with latest patches where thrusters lack but I seriously don't see how hotas, hosas, hosam is going to make me a more efficient pilot. Edit: now of course, CIG can fuck everyone and make their game joystick(s) ruled but on my own, I dont see the need for joysticks. I tried hotas, gave me nothing but frustration.
Like asking if a mouse will improve data entry for excel lol my point is, the peripheral is a great tool, but that's all it is. Star citizen can't be improved lol
Hey! I know this video is kind of old but I just ordered 2 Virpil Constellation Alphas and the ACE Interceptor Pedals. Would you be able to make a brief video tutorial on what your setup is or maybe a beginners configuration for HOSAS w/ pedals?
I would recommend against HOTAS just because the throttle is designed for atmospheric flight and struggles with the fine adjustments that are needed for dogfighting outside of atmo. I would never recommend rudder pedals unless you're willing to drop significant money on a set that actually works. HOSAS is better than HOTAS, but you forgot to list the one control that was actually designed to manipulate movement in 6 degrees. They're sometimes called a 3D controller or a space mouse. It's usually used in 3D modeling and CAD work. But it's a grip or ball that you simply put pressure in the direction you wish to move. Some of them have extra keys you can bind, but for the most part all you have to do is imagine you're holding your ship in your left hand and the movements will match it.
Not going to pretend I know anything about this stuff, but wouldn’t HOTAM be a viable combination? You already have stick and mouse, what about throttle and mouse?
I have used nearly every configuration in this video and recently I have tossed around the idea of HOSASAT since SC has enough of a reason now adays to justify dedicated analog inputs for thrust limiters/speed limiters. (Plus the myriad of new keybinds over the years) Also another newer brand that may be of note is Winwing which recently updated their throttle base and seem to be a bit in the middle of the VKB --- Virpil spectrum. Great vid btw.
I use the Logitech X58 HOTAS, It has enough buttons and switches that I generally only touch the keyboard while on foot or EVA, both the throttle and the stick have analogue mini-sticks, my controls have the right hand X and Y set to Roll and Pitch, the twist is set to Yaw, mini stick is my head movement, for the left hand, the throttle is 0-100 forward, with a thumb button for reverse thrust, and the mini-stick is up-down, left-right. I might consider throwing my flight pedals into the mix, but we will see
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What control setup do you use in Star Citizen?
M&K weeoo!
T1600m Space sim duo for now. Entry level. Saving up for a full Virpil layout as mentioned in your video.
VKB MCG Ultimate right side and VKB NXT Omni Throttle left side. In my opinion: The amazing Hybrid of classic HOTAS and Dual Setup!
Actually I have the same exact Virpil setup as you with an added button panel to bind non essentials to.
@@allantetaylor3692 Does it happen to be Virpil's Panel 3, because i have one out of view too lol
By far, this is the best joystick setup breakdown for Star Citizen on the internet.
Thanks!
@@RedLir_Live thanks man its so confusing the buying options and explainers really helped
I use an Xbox Controller...not trying to scare off any women who come over and see a Space Ship in my living room.
@@sigmapsicharlie I hope you find a girl who likes it when you use your stick, or even better, a girl who likes star citizen.
Yaw and roll are better swapped imo. Roll gets a lot more use and the twist motion brings on rsi sooner or later.
If I may ask, what is rsi?
@@timebrain3188 repetitive strain injury
Yeah, coming from Elite where yaw is super nerfed because design by fiat, I'm also in the swapped yaw and roll camp.
I've simply never been able to fly if roll isn't a twist of the stick. I tried many times years ago and it just never felt right to me.
@@timebrain3188 Roberts Space Industries - Star Citizen
I've been playing the game with Xbox One controller since the day1. I've then upgraded to Elite controller which gives you more freedom to bind different actions. The pad works great but I've been thinking about upgrading to dual sticks for quite some time now. I've never really looked that deep into different setups but this video made it really clear how they work. Excellent pack of information! Will definitely come back to rewatch this when I get new dedicated gaming room and it's time to get the new set of controllers.
Thank-you that was a nice summary of the options.
I've been using a seat mounted Virpil HOSAS set-up with pedals for some years now. Yaw on the rudder pedals, since this reflects full size aircraft practice.
Yes...flying ships with dual sticks is far more intuitive than a mouse.
You'd be surprised. It really is much easier imo.
I don't understand how people use twist as roll it makes no sense, I instantly switch roll and yaw around
Agreed. But I often get asked how I can control yaw well enough on a twist. I do see there point. But I'm also from a long line of current fighter/flight sims so I gotta have roll on the X axis. Avenger One says when in combat in SC, its always best to roll and pitch into your desired point. So roll on X seems legit to me.
I know a couple folk who were new to sticks for SC and put roll on twist, then they tried doing a flight sim and found themselves really messed up.
@@festersmith8352 yeah yaw doesn't seem as important to me as in a dog fight you need the combination of roll and pitch together, and it makes the stick feel one with the ship
I started with m&k then went to HOTAS w/pedals then finally settling on HOSAS w/ pedals. Definitely adds to the immersion. Pair it with some kind of head tracking and it definitely feels like you are in the cockpit. Hell of an investment, but if you have the money and want to add the immersive factor in it is definitely worth it!
i'm on the same route as you, started with hotas, now have hosas, soon will have pedels. also have tobii for head tracking. I keep debating if I want to get a throttle as well or just use my old x52's throttle if I ever need it, keep eying the virpil one to go with the rest of my kit though.
And if you don’t it’s still great with mkb
@@user-iu6sd8su3e very true. Though I can’t go back
If I may ask what the total cost would be for a HOSAS + pedal combo?
@@Eggsecuter depends on the brand really, that said i'v got all Virpil and i'm prob about 1.5k in those plus head tracking.
I don't know about other brand's pedels, but I know a popular stick is the VKB gunfighters and those are like 150 each IIRC. like anything your paying more for quality and demising returns.
I do have a virpil hotas with pedals and i find it very hard to control my ship if i use the pedals for rolling.
On the other hand binding yaw to them feels more natural and has an easier learning curve.
Pedals are not meant for rolling imo.
I'm the exact opposite, but that's what great about having all these tools and options. There's something that works for everyone! Cheers!
Yeap, imo pedals are not suitable for roll and are a waste on a $200 peripheral.
I use mine like one would on a car. I find it much easier to match the speed of my opponent.
Try the toe brakes as forward / back strafe. Similar to a car, we drive every day. Dont use the center axis at all.
Warning - do NOT bind any 1 axis to more than 1 input.
Example - roll on both stick and pedals.
The game lags when switching between them.
@@lordfraybin I use toe brakes for strafe up/down.I find it more intuitive for landing and take off.
In conventional aircraft, the pedals control the rudder and therefore yaw.
I use a unique layout for HOSAS + Pedals:
Right stick Y: pitch
Right stick X: yaw
Pedals: Roll
Left stick X: strafe forward/back
Left stick Y: strafe up/down
Left stick twist: strafe left/right
It's not intuitive at first and took me a long time to get used to. But I like this layout because I have more precision on my strafe up, and throttle forward, than my strafe left/right, which I like.
The second layout you mentioned, with throttle forward/back on the pedals, and roll on the twist, may be optimal though.
Very interesting! It's all about what works for you! Cheers!
your setup for left stick sounds crazy!
WEEOO! HOSAS & Pedals. RH: Pitch/Roll + Twist for Yaw. LH: U/D/L/R Strafes. Pedals: F/B Thrust. Very much prefer Pitch/Roll for Lowflying =)
I dont even have money to buy joysticks. Im just here dreaming.
I feel like yaw and roll would be swapped around in most situations for me. Although actually that said, I get now why the set up as you have it described would make aiming much easier.
Yup, that's the logic. If you come from real flight though, it will break your brain a bit at first!
Liked,Subed,Belled,Commented.
Any chance of some file downloads for the different setups for Star Citizen. I am new to this and it a bloody nightmare tiring to figurer it out.
Great Video Mate. It was well done.
I wish I had seen it about 2 weeks ago, I would of gone duel stick not the X56.
Well the good news is that you can always do both. Have a throttle off to the side for big ships and add a second stick for dual fun! Thanks!
2 VKB sticks as HOSAS, left one is with the z adapter. First time using such setup as of last week. Can attest - never going back to Kb+mouse for flying; it is not the same. BTW I have twist on right one for roll and strafe up/down on the left, no pedals but it is an option for some.
I use similar controls to your self except with the roll on the left twist instead of the pedals, i cant aim as well as i could with mouse but its much more fun using a stick to aim and i think thats more important than having pin point accuracy, especially with all the aim assist stuff added in recent years.
You forgot the HOTASASAWAKAMAFOPAP
Hands On Stick And Stick And Wheel And Keyboard And Mouse And Feet On Pedals And Pedals
I have been researching sticks for a while and discussing it with people but this video by far made more sense then my last year of research. Thank you for this!
IMO
Pitch should be stick forward and back
Roll would be stick left and right,
Yaw would be pedals,
Throttle is obviously Throttle
Strafe would be mini joystick,
More realistic that way
Awesome video! Great summary.
I can definitely recommend joysticks over mouse. The only issue is super-precise aiming for me. As in tracking a pixel-sized enemy that i moving diagonally.
I started with Thrustmaster T Flight X Hotas. It was great, but very soon it became clear that I need more accuracy. Plus I needed something sturdier. I went all in and bought Hotas Warthog. It was a huge step up, but soon I found myself lacking axes and controls on the throttle weren't exactly intuitive (except forward and back). So I got myself cheap T Flight Rudder Pedals from Thrustmaster to get some more axes. They were horrible and broke within a week. So I knew I had to go for quality. Precision, movement, durability. I chose MFG as they were the most praised back then. (Had to wait 3/4 year for them...). The setup was getting better and better and finally I replaced the Warthog throttle with T16000M. I am very happy with it. I might upgrade to something more expensive later on, but I find the setup "complete". I have enough control so that my flying is not limited by hardware, only by my skill.
A note why T16000M joystick is an excellent choice: It has magnetic tracking. Your deadzone won't degenerate because of overuse. Not as soon anyway. ;)
And last note: Seats. Although they do look great and and feel great and increase the immersion by bother level, make sure you have a keyboard and mouse handy. Especially if you are using VR as well. Getting out of the VR chair every time you need to use a keyboard or a mouse is quite a nightmare. So if you're going for a chair, do make sure you have easy and comfortable access to the keyboard and mouse.
I had Thrustmaster X Hotas available to use when I first got star citizen. They worked good but were too sensitive when it came to light fighters, making non gimbaled weapons almost impossible to use. I ended up buying two VKB Gladiators when they were on sale. Wow, the controls are so much more precise. I still suck as a light fighter pilot, but I am slowly getting better, and I can actually target ships with them. I don’t have pedals, so I use the left stick rotation for up/down movement. I might buy the slanted adapter in the future so it feels more natural, and maybe pedals. Anyone on the fence with purchasing a stick over Keyboard and mouse, I’ll just say it increases the enjoyment of flying x10.
I agree with the game being more enjoyable with sticks, some people say mouse aim can't be beat. But sticks are more fun.
This video is going into my permanent reference playlist, thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
I really want to buy dual Virpil constellation alphas…. But gotta decide if i want them $800 bad
This video is so deatiled and underrated. Change your title or boost this somehow man.
Thanks!
my brain would die not having roll on a stick because ive played flight sims on and off so long. I really would like to swap my yaw to peddles though.
Been a long time star citizen fan who left to come back to it when it was playable. For me that was 3.16 and the decision to go joysticks came real soon after. I went with VKB Gladiator NXT EVO with Omni throttle for left hand and VKB Gunfighter MK3 ultimate both with twist. I also got the rail mounts from monstertech and I can say it's heaven right now. Just flying around is a Joy with joysticks (heh). Highly recommended for SC and plus future space games.
I mean if you just want analog controls you can get a Wooting keyboard
i have VKB NXT Gladiator premium for right hand and VKB NXT EVO with OMNI Throttle for left hand.
The Omni Throttle is a cool compromise between Throttle and joystick. You have the full range of a joystick and the feeling of a throttle.
And if you want you can change the EVO into a full trottle by blocking the left/right direction.
VKB is very cool when it comes to customisation. Also i like the buttons on the bases. I am looking forward to some extensions for more buttons.
And to answer your question in the tittle. YES, using HOSAS or HOTAS is a game changer. i highly recomend. also i recomend a HOSAS setup.
How are those 2 joysticks treating you? I was thinking of the same setup!
@@CaptinLongdong1 they are great. i use them for quite a while now. I even added a SEM (side extension module). Its fun, its cool and it seems very durable.
Also i think, dual stick (HOSAS) is the most recommended thing when it comes to fly a space craft.
@@DrPet80 Thanks mate!
I used Hotas to play ED but still haven't set mine up for SC.
You`ve missed the absolutely BEST Throttle!!! The new and amazing VKB Omni Throttle!!!
I actually use a Virpil Z adapter myself on the left, but it's still a stick. Tricky!!
@@RedLir_Live i know! But VKB makes it different! Y-Axis is a Throttle (without springs) and the X-Axis is the the optional Strafe Axis with springs! So you can handle it like a classical Throttle but you can use X and Z-Axis for strafing! And there is no conflict between and feels simply awesome!
@@stonehenge9 Dry clutch wizardry!
I will never understand people who put roll on twist instead of x, that's so unituitive.
I preder yaw on the twist axis with roll on the axis that you are suggesting yaw should be.
Nice overview! HOSAS + Pedals for me. Right: pitch,yaw,roll Left: up/down,left/right Pedals: fwd/back
I wish I could get use to roll on a stick, I just can't give up that pedal Z axis roll life!!
Interesting that have twist to roll on your right stick, I felt like twisting my right stick maybe took away from my pitch/yaw aim.
HOSAS is the best in Star Citizen
Price from high to low : Virpils -> VKB's -> TCA Airbus or T16000M -> any other common dual stick setup
Performance high to low: Virpils = VKB, both behave like scalpel to an axe compared to Thrustmaster sticks, are net superior
Virpil and VKB are pretty much the same as performance but Virpil is twice the price so it does not worth invest. Unless you are Terada 🤣
Throttle is useless in Star Citizen pretty much.
Mouse and keyboard favors aiming better though, but it's nothing compared to broken relative OP mouse as in Elite where it's 100% like an aim assist for impared 😁 And all mousers defeat HOTAS/HOSAS users easily cause rails are just point and shoot.
Oh and of course, pedals is a must for HOTAS/HOSAS setup so I need pedals now. I use VKB's
This is THE video I’ve been searching so long for with regards to flying in star citizen!
Thank you for laying out exactly what I’ve been needing to know about all these controls.
Subscribed now cheers 👍
Thanks, Isaac. They're a great starting point depending on the setup you use, but also don't be afraid to tweak things to suit you as you get comfortable with a setup. Cheers!
HOSAS AND multi quadrant throttle, peddles and trackIR.
Still have room for GameGlass.
What about a beer fridge?!
watching the first seconds.. catching me 100%
I don't have this game currently but have been watching a lot of videos and thinking about it. Coming from flight sims for over 25 years, and being in the USAF for over 30 working on and knowing about aircraft...maybe space stuff might be different, but for flight sims and aircraft in general the left/right axis is roll and twist or rudder pedals are always yaw. It just seems strange to swap roll and yaw to me, but to each his own...lol.
It's a common remark. In SC ships have maneuvering thrusters that allow for 6DOF and don't follow your traditional atmospheric flight model. Pitch and Yaw have equal power where as in real flight, Roll and Pitch would be the primary 'aiming' axis since Yaw isn't useful for fine aiming. Roll is still important to the point I would recommend pedals long term, but Pitch and Yaw on the same stick creates a powerful aiming device especially in dog-fighting.
Of course the answer for you is to use what's comfortable to you, but if someone is approaching SC without any background in DCS, these are the configs I would recommend as there is no muscle memory.
Cheers!
I think the halfway solution of the omni throttle deserves a mention. a stick with angle and removed spring for foward/backward behaves and feels exactly like a throttle with the addition of strafe axis.
Have you considered a moving joystick?
I stupidly bought the Thrustmaster 1600 and I give it an F for Fail. The HOTA no longer works correctly and when used makes the ships impossible to fly correctly. The stick has such a large dead spot around the center it is impossible to do any kind of precise maneuvering. Will be replacing soon.
What sticks are you looking at?
Mouse and Keyboard for PVE， HOTAS for PVP ^_^
can never get used to HOSAS，but now that you mapped it out, I am incline to give it another shot, thanks my friend.
It takes a bit to get used to for sure.
What is your current setup? Is the left stick the Gladiator NXT EVO Omni Throttle? If I am reading about that correctly it looks like it can be used as either a second stick or locked into being a throttle. This interests me because I want to try a HOSAS setup for Start Citizen but I also have a friend getting into Star Wars Squadron and want to play with him where I think more of a standard throttle can be better.
In the video the left is a Virpil WarBRD with the z adapter. Currently I'm testing my VKB gunfighter 3 with the Space Combat Grip on their angled adapter, I don't use omni throttle though. On the Gunfighter Omni would be achieved by removing the Y spring and tightening down the dry clutches. I'm not sure how they do it on the NXT EVO but I assume it's similar.
Hosas is literally THE WAY to go for spaceships.
In DCS/normal airplanes hotas is probably better though
I don't know why but i was never able to get used to twisting my stick to roll. It has to be yaw for me.
VKB seems to be an affordable brand, but unfortunately at least over here in the EU they are constantly sold out
waiting time for delivery is 2 month. i got my 2nd (left) VKB NXT Gladius a month ago. i waited 2 months.
Same for me too. I can't make the disconnect for how you fly a plane with a twist stick. The left stick matches the hosas setup for me, tho
VKB is mostly a high end brand a bit similar to Virpil, not an affordable brand. That said, they do have the Gladiator sticks which occupy a pretty nice spot between high end and basic sticks, but that is the exception.
I have the T16000M setup ... but have not actually committed to using them yet. After watching your video, I'm going to give them a go this weekend.
HOXEC: Hands On Xbox Elite Controller
Another alternative is a 3D mouse, which is basically a joystick with all 6dof on the same hand. It may be less competitive than hosas because everything is on the same hand plus it has lower precision, but it works quite nicely for casual flight. It also pairs well with a regular mouse for improved aiming.
That was a citizen years ago who used a dual CAD mouse setup. It was definitely interesting!
HOSAS is the way! Personally I feel like Roll and Yaw on your right hand should be switched. I use the twist for Yaw and X axis for roll.
Secretly I have enough sticks to do HOSOSOSOSOSOSOSOSOS but I'm still trying to figure out how to get more hands!
@@RedLir_Live hahaha instead of foot pedals use more sticks!
yes. dont even need to watch the video.... yes. hahaha
Thanks for your video it helps me a lot I’m still new to SC and wanting to use sticks cheers mate
No problem 👍
A comment to feed engagement to our overlord, the almighty algorithm!
Fantastic informative video! VERY well done. I have both LIKED and SUBSCRIBED. The quality and content of your video deserve it!
Much appreciated!
Hosas is awesome, i cant stop flying. i cant remember when i did my last ground fps option
I remember that first feeling of grabbing the two sticks. It's awesome!
I'm running Dual VKB NXT Gladiators sticks. one of these has the omni throttle attachment to angle the stick. The key binds I'm running are from Buzzkiller(found on RUclips.). It has made the greatest single boost to my game enjoyment. I did use to run a single VKB NXT Gladiators Stick and keyboard and just recently crossed over to 2 joysticks. If you can afford it go for it.
He's been doing those mappings for as long as I can remember. Great stuff!
How do you have your left stick set up, it look identical to your right stick but tiled somehow?
In that shot I have virpils z adapter attached which allows the stick to be held on an angle. VKB also sell similar attachments that I'm testing now
Didn't you mixed yaw and roll ?
Because real planes have yaw on the base rotation of the stick and/or transferered to the pedals. (named Rudder pedal)
Yaw pedals especialy helps pilots to turn when on the ground (while the other hand carefully manage the thrust). You can visually see the yaw axis on the planes pedals deisgned like an handlebar of a bike.
For helicopters too, both pitch and roll helps to precicely tilt the hellicopter. The pedals manage the yaw rotation around the main rotor by powering more or less the tail rotor.
Edit: It's your configuration is irregular. Most config are like irl with yaw on the pedal. In you case, you switched roll and yaw to help you keep a symetry between the yaw rotation on the right hand, and the left-right translation on your left hand. but it's not common to see.
Nothing makes Star Citizen better maybe in 5 years though lol.
Shots fired!
Yo PopeLir, I use Virpil sticks with Fanatec club sport V3 pedals...My rig is dual- Flight and racing. Great video. See ya in the verse someday..lol
we should encourage more players to invest in sticks instead of jpeg ships they can earn in game anyways rheeeee
If only we could earn sticks in game too! Ha!
left stick: x is left/right y forward/back i have up/down on ministick
right stick: x yaw y pitch twist roll
thumbs do power management, constant up/down strafe, speed limiter. boost is on my left pinky button.
i have dual gladiator nxt premiums
Damn I been tryna play this game with 3 trackballs in a row and a pair of DK bongos
You must be a Xi'an pilot!
I started with the X56 HOTAS, i just got a VKB gladiator stick with SEM module. So now i have HOSAS and love it.
I was thinking about getting a flight stick. Most likely Logitech and maybe with the thrusters. But I have a 3dconnexion I would like to use instead of a thruster. What’s your opinion on the 3dconnexion with a flight stick? And will the pedals be worth it, when using a flight stick with 3d connection?
Amazing breakdown. That said - X axis is aeleron (roll) and twist is yaw, like non negotiable as an actual pilot XD Twin stick looks amazing. Thanks for this video!
I was thinking the same thing
Understandable for someone coming from a flight or DCS style background. The logic for SC is based on 6DOF and yaw having the same authority as pitch for aiming the nose of the ship ( in conjunction with roll). Living on the same stick makes an aiming device, similar to having the u/d/l/r strafes on the left stick.
In real flight of course, pitch and roll are the primary aiming tools and you don't have mav thrusters to micro aim with strafes.
@@RedLir_Live Oh yea, I follow the line of thinking. Honestly, a good human could adapt to anything. I just know my brain is really hardwired to flight surface control, of course.
*Yaw* on right stick "left and right"????? and not *roll* on right stick "left and right?????
Correct. See my previous replies for an explanation. Cheers!
@@RedLir_Live all good man I appreciate the tips and pointers here. I'll get a HOSAS and see what works for me :) still a great vid btw
I’m coming from just FPS games, aiming, sniping with 800DPI for years. I thought HOSAS is going to be great for space flight. But I’m starting to think HOSAM will feel
More intuitive and will keep my precise aim of mouse but I just wanna get rid of the absolute inputs of the keyboard. So I’m thinking start with 1 trustmaster T16000M, maybe get a second one later.
I suggest starting with left joystick and mouse. Train your brain before you go with 2 sticks.
I really had a hard time using mouse and keyboard, So I switched to a x-box controller.
For getting started its actually a really good, the switch after almost year to HOSAS was pretty small.
Thank you for the quick down and dirty for sticks. I wasn't aware of the HOTAS....HOSAS...ECT. This gets me a starting point and I appreciate your input thanks
Glad to help
the guide is not complete if you do not recommend which socks to use the pedals
It depends on the ship you're flying of course! 😆
I glued some short little tubes to the joysticks on an old PS4 controller..I use the sticks as, well sticks with my thumb and forefinger/middle finger, left bumper is my modifier with my ring finger, the triggers are my foot pedals/strafe with my pinkies, d-pad is ship controls like landing gear...It's a little on the tight side but it saved me from having to buy a whole new setup right away.
So I use a setup I don't see discussed much down in the comments : HOSAK - Pitch/Yaw/Roll on my right, and thrust on my keyboard. This let's me use a classic WASD+Ctrl+Space as well as giving me access to my keyboard keys for hotkeys. Thanks for the video. I learned something
Nice 🙂 I'm going to try this
its because fine thrust control is needed for pvp, which a keyboard can not supply
@@MrNoppaz Yes, I see now. I have since switched to HOSAS, and it's better. But you can tap with the keyboard to get similar, but worse, results.
Answer in one word - YES.
Running VKB NXT Hosas since 2021 and previously T16000m Hosas in 2020. Worth it.
The Warthog throttle absolutely does have an analogue mini stick on the index finger in the same position as the T16000M placement. I wouldn't recommend the Warthog though, because it's made to replicate the real controls as closely as possible, the throttle isn't particularly ergonomic, and the buttons and switches on both stick and throttle are VERY heavy, which feels amazing at first, but for gaming just ultimately slows your control of the ship
odd side note pertaining to the t.16k's: due to the position of the magnetic sensor they use, if you live in an environment with iron rich soil, the magnet will accumulate ferrous material over time, which will start throwing phantom inputs, but fixing it is as simple as opening up the stick and cleaning the magnet, although it's better to just order the VKB sticks as your entry level purchase, cause they're superior in every measurable capacity.
great timing with this video, I was juts getting into this game and was doing a lot of research on this topic, thanks for the insight :D
Welcome aboard!
I got my xbox series controller set up for it, honestly works great. I enjoy my lazy boy chair and my 65 inch 4k 120fps set up 😌
As my first step from Keyboard and Mouse, I'm looking to go for HOSAM, but with a couple of twists:
- I have a mouse that has a 4-way castle and can be rolled in addition to traditional 5-6 button mouse options (Lexip Pu94), and
- Will be getting a left stick that has an omni-throttle styles Z-extension.
Looking to have rolling the mouse as roll, to pair with the traditional mouse pitch and yaw, and have the forward/back on left twist, to use the left stick as up/down/left/right as you mentioned later in the video.
Unconventional, but I think it should be fun.
Dual Virpils here, i flipped yaw and roll though as i feel it makes more sense. Twist to turn lay the stick over to roll, you're doing the action you want the ship to emulate.
I've tried Logitech's lower priced joysticks, but they're digital joysticks, which seems to defeat the purpose.
I use the Logitech X52 pro throttle with a mouse. The X52 pro stick base makes it to high to be comfortable to use, its a shame as it has loads of buttons you can configure. The throttle is good, I use it thrust forward, slider thrust backwards, hat switch strafe up, down, left and right. Top rotor, roll left right, bottom rotor mining laser, and the buttons for normal tasks.
CGI needs to fix the game first?? I got ejected while fighting with athe F button on a door right out into space from a space station??? This game is so Bugged & the Server LAg is Horrific as well. 4.0 better fix everything or im leaving this shit game again but for good.
That was fantastic thank you, a great overview to point people in the right direction. I needed this, because the happy puppy inside me was just going to buy it all..!
I have the same problem and now have my very own "Joystick Museum"... Cheers!!
Even if joysticks don't make you a PvP PGM, it really makes the experience more immersive and increases a bit the manoeuverability versus keyboard/mouse (personal feeling here). But what I love most is the pedals, that really improves the experience over just 2 joysticks.
I put a couple of hundred hours in Elite Dangerous with a X52 H.O.T.A.S. and it's still going. Can recommend as a entry HOTAS
Still K+M with head track.
As immersive but without learning curve or frustration.
Am I a great pilot? No! Especially with latest patches where thrusters lack but I seriously don't see how hotas, hosas, hosam is going to make me a more efficient pilot.
Edit: now of course, CIG can fuck everyone and make their game joystick(s) ruled but on my own, I dont see the need for joysticks. I tried hotas, gave me nothing but frustration.
thanks for leading us down this very deep rabbt hole......
It leads to a joystick museum...
@@RedLir_Live LOL so true!
Like asking if a mouse will improve data entry for excel lol my point is, the peripheral is a great tool, but that's all it is. Star citizen can't be improved lol
Hey! I know this video is kind of old but I just ordered 2 Virpil Constellation Alphas and the ACE Interceptor Pedals. Would you be able to make a brief video tutorial on what your setup is or maybe a beginners configuration for HOSAS w/ pedals?
Perfect guide, thank you! VKB Gladiator costs 3x the 16000M though
X 52 works for me. Some things are on digital switches but it works for me.
Just got myself an x56 HOTAS setup for playing star citizen, war thunder, ac7
I would recommend against HOTAS just because the throttle is designed for atmospheric flight and struggles with the fine adjustments that are needed for dogfighting outside of atmo.
I would never recommend rudder pedals unless you're willing to drop significant money on a set that actually works.
HOSAS is better than HOTAS, but you forgot to list the one control that was actually designed to manipulate movement in 6 degrees. They're sometimes called a 3D controller or a space mouse. It's usually used in 3D modeling and CAD work. But it's a grip or ball that you simply put pressure in the direction you wish to move. Some of them have extra keys you can bind, but for the most part all you have to do is imagine you're holding your ship in your left hand and the movements will match it.
WEEEEO - DuaSticks or HOSAS
Not going to pretend I know anything about this stuff, but wouldn’t HOTAM be a viable combination? You already have stick and mouse, what about throttle and mouse?
Dual TM 16000 and 2 game glass shards keeps me off the keyboard 100% while in the seat... unless I'm chatting of course.
I have used nearly every configuration in this video and recently I have tossed around the idea of HOSASAT since SC has enough of a reason now adays to justify dedicated analog inputs for thrust limiters/speed limiters. (Plus the myriad of new keybinds over the years)
Also another newer brand that may be of note is Winwing which recently updated their throttle base and seem to be a bit in the middle of the VKB --- Virpil spectrum.
Great vid btw.
Thanks! I actually keep a virpil panel 3 off to the side for similar utility. You can never have too many levers and buttons!
I’d think keyboard and an Xbox controller would probably be optimal. Maybe some extra gear for specialized stuff.
I use the Logitech X58 HOTAS, It has enough buttons and switches that I generally only touch the keyboard while on foot or EVA, both the throttle and the stick have analogue mini-sticks, my controls have the right hand X and Y set to Roll and Pitch, the twist is set to Yaw, mini stick is my head movement, for the left hand, the throttle is 0-100 forward, with a thumb button for reverse thrust, and the mini-stick is up-down, left-right. I might consider throwing my flight pedals into the mix, but we will see