Notes and additons: - The Flight Deck isn't Xbox compatible! Only the VelocityOne stick and yoke are (thanks @speedy6369) - Clarification: The Ursa Minor has less deflection than the Gladiator, so an Omni throttle is a better throttle replacement. A TWCS has longer throw and is better as a dedicated throttle
ordered the HOTAS orion 2 with Stiker ace ex 2 throttle based on your earlier recommendations. Its currently on sale through black friday for $110 off! Think I paid about $436 usd. Now if only MSFS could get their act together and start supporting more sticks natively! Hey that would be a great video for you to do. A walk through on setting up the Winwing Orion 2 and throttle in MSFS!
I really appreciate the significant level of effort you put into your channel's content. Your in-depth reviews and answers I've seen you provide in r/hotas were a significant factor in my decision to buy the Winwing HOTAS MAX with the MFSSB stick base, to replace my 14 year-old, worn-out Saitek X-65f. Thanks again, and please keep up the good work!
Thanks a lot for the support and taking the time to write that comment. 🤗 Glad I could help - and I hope you're happy with your choice so far. Really appreciate the donation. The time required for creating this kind of content is considerable & the niche is too small to cover all of that with ad revenue.
Started with the with the T-Flight, moved up to the Thustmaster t16000m, and now rocking Twin VKB Gladiator NXT EVO Premium Joysticks and they are prefect. 🥰
A big thank you for such a straightforward informational video. This gives me a good basis of personal upgrades from my gladiator evo and stecs, but more importantly, gives me something other than the 3d pro to suggest to friends looking to try out sim flying without breaking the bank. I was hoping winwing would come through with the ursa minor, and it looks like they very much did. thanks again!
@@WatchMysh Yeah, I'm going to upgrade to the STECS very soon. VKB's customer service and quality is something very important for me and they delivered.
Literally just watched your 2023 video, it was absolutely brilliant, excited now to watch this updated video, great to see you go immediately into detail about the core features to know about, keep up the great work!
feeding the algorithm! just recently bought the first of 2 NXT EVOs to use as throttle thanks to your 2023 guide and i love it, these vids are so useful!
Very good buyer's guide. Every year, it gets better, and it remains the best one imho : not too long, reasonable pricing (for the market), good points/arguments.
@@PeypaMikko-1842 thanks! I always try to keep it as brief as possible. With the market getting more and more crowded I might have to restructure next year maybe.
Hmmm. Hero's Quest was the number 1. I use to play it with my son when he was 2yrs old, and taught him how to read doing it. Lol! 2nd game would have to be Balder's Gate, 3rd Microprose F117-A flight sim. After that I got hooked on 3D modeling with Imagine 2.0. Then I moved to the Amiga 2000HD and got into Video Production for a time. Yep! best days of my life dude! I'm 65yrs old now and having fun with my 4 grandkids on there gaming/art & design intrest.
@@GregoryAlexander-n1w Living the life my man! I loved Turrican, X-Out, Nitro, Gods and Pinball Fantasies. I'm from 81. So the Amiga was like a miracle machine for me in the late 80s and early 90s.
I started with the T-Flight Hotas back in 2014 and then upgraded to the T16000M Hotas in 2020. I'm waiting for the T16000M to wear out or die before I upgrade.
I've been using the Logitech x56 stick and throttle, as well as the logitech rudder pedals for 3 years now. I like them so much that even though there are a million better choices, I can't convince myself switching will be worth it.
How funny is that. Yesterday I watched your 2023 Video and bought the VKB Gladiator. Glad you still recommend it 😆. Could you do a seperate Video about throttles and rudder pedals? Last time I flew MSFS was Flight Sim X as a kid, but I was always interested and flew in a simulator not long ago and it was so much fun. Its not about money, but its about not spending money useless and I dont think I need e.g. rudder pedals for 1000 Euros, I just want to get most value for my money. Which rudder pedals would you reccoment to pair with this stick?
Best affordable pedals are the WinWing Orion2 without the damper. They should be on sale right now I guess. A video on throttles would be doable, yes. Maybe once the new Virpil stuff comes out in 2025.
@@BenBensen293 lol yes I know it's not really cheap. But they are the best from a value perspective. Everything below is kinda meh. If you can get the TurtleBeach pedals for like 160 or so that'll be an idea. Otherwise check out the VKB T-Rudders, maybe as B-stock, if you don't need toe brakes.
You state that only Virpil offers tilted grips. VKB does offer Omni Throttle adapters for the Gunfighter base in both left and right hand variants. Note that you cannot use the Modern Combat Grips with the Omn Throttle Adapters, so you would have to use Space Combat Grips or the other two.
Yes, that's what I meant. I was referring to the grips, not to the gimbals. My wording is a bit unclear and it can be understood as you did. I wanted to say that only Virpil offers high end tilted grip AND base combos.
@@santigallardo3342 Maybe next year. I decided to make the cut at 500-600€ for "affordable ffb". Rhino is 800+ as well as ffbeast. And I don't have first hand experience with them.
Thank you for this super informative review! I think I'm going to go for the WinWing Ursa Minor for now, and I might pick up a throttle later. I intend to play some more space sims, but I don't play them that often so undecided between the TWCS throttle and the secondary WinWing stick for the throttle. I see that the left hand throttle variant of the WinWing is out of stock in the EU warehouse currently though. The VKB gladitor space combat edition does look amazing but I'm not sure if I will play enough flight sims to justify the cost, and from your description it seems like the Ursa Minor is a good alternative for those getting into the hobby! I do see a lot of negative comments online about the Ursa Minor vs the VKB Gladiator claiming its just a rip off and that VKB is worth the extra cost, do you have any comments on that?
The Ursa copies the gimbal, the rest is not a rip-off, but a step down. They play in two different price leagues. The Ursa Minor sits between the Gladiator Standard and Premium from a feature perspective, but only costs half. The switches are worse, but still better than those of the rest of the sub 100€ division. So besides the gimbal those two sticks aren't really comparable since one is "Premium budget" with a mid-range gimbal and the other is "Premium mid-range" (better materials, heavier base etc....).
@@humvee202 a lot of the criticism comes from the fact that WinWing copied the gimbal. If you ignore this fact, the stick is perfectly fine for the price.
@@dusbasgames I personally wouldn't pay 250 bucks for a cup/ball construction when there's an Ursa Minor on sale for below 100. Add an Orion2 throttle and you're not far above the 250 bucks of the FD, but two leagues in quality.
@@WatchMysh unfortunately didn't have the choice. Was partially a gift for my birthday and had a big gift card for a webshop that didn't have the widest choice. I think like 20 different options in total
By the way I was planning to buy either Winwing MFDs or F16 ICP (I already have thrustmaster t16000 combo, works perfectly) Are they good stuff or it may be better to invest in some better hotas ? Thanks o/
@@yunninn2007 hard to say. The Mfds are sth you keep "forever" mostly so I think it's a good investment. I personally would invest in a proper grip/base first though. If you have a TWCS you don't need twist and could upgrade to a ViperAce/Orion2 for a reasonable amount of money. It's a day and night difference to the t16000.
Hi Mysh! This was a fantastic review just what I needed! Have some question if you don't mind. :) I am struggling to eventually upgrade the Thrustmaster Hotas Warthog system (from 2014) , or completely replace it at least the stick itself (the throttle quadrant is super, however never could set up for reverse thrust and such, but this must be a user error :) ). Regardless of the cup system I really like the feeling and feedback of that and the resolution. But I really hate that it has no mini joystick so I cannot look around, hate to use the mouse, it is not the same with pov switches. :( What I like in the Warthog also, that is really heavy so I can just place them on the table without fixing onto something so that it doesn't move. I have also a "backup" which I bought really cheap a Logitech X-56, and really loved the analog look around stick on that one, however the began to creep already (by the way can this be mitigated by lubricating with something?). What I really dislike in the X56 is that is has so unrealistic too light "mushy" feeling, it has no resistance almost (I think it has already the heaviest spring but I am not sure bought it used) I play most FS2020 and now 2024. What upgrade/replacement route would you suggest (can be premium too, but no forcefeedback that is just too expensive...)? Also should be heavy enough so that it stays while playing. Probably I would need "only" stick/base replacement. But then I also cannot sell the whole as a "set". Oh... I use a Thrustmaster pendular rudder I think I am more than happy with that, no upgrade need on that front. Please advice and thank you for good content! Regards, Gabor
Thanks! :) Hm, if you liked the Warthog in general I'd say you could get a WinWing ViperAce/Orion2 with shaker kit for the mini stick. It's lighter but has some suctions cups that work really well. Or you could replace the whole set. You wouldn't need the shaker kit for the grip then, since all Orion2 throttles come with a mini stick on the grip. Or you just keep your setup if you like it and get some head tracking instead to look around? The trackhat V2 is kinda capable and doesn't break the bank for example. The X-56's jitter usually can't be fixed. It's failing potentiometers.
@@WatchMysh Thank you! Checking currently the Orion2. Especially there is Black Friday everywhere. :) Suction cup isn't really good :( My gaming table is full "mouse pad" :( something that is heavy enough? Or some good 3rd party bases? Besides to mount it up on a heavier kitchen "chopboard" or something (wouldn't look too good however, but that is my only idea right now... :) ) Other stuff that is heavy enough (maybe from Virpil, VKB?)
@@gabortoth1977 the others also don't suppy really heavy bases. It's only TM. But you could just use the Orion without the cups and put some anti slip pads on it. It's surely heavy enough. My table doesn't work with suction cups and I didn't have any problems. Option 2: get an Ava base. As far as I know it's compatible with the Warthog base plate. Then get an Orion throttle and you have your mini stick while retaining the heavy stick and base. I personally would go for the Orion since a lighter grip is so much more comfortable than the top heavy TM. But maybe you're fine with the AVA and your old grip? But as I said: why not just get head tracking if you're happy with your config so far?
@@WatchMysh Thanks again! I will look into that head tracking stuff too! Could be an option yes. Yes I really love that super heavy TM stuff and the stick feel. :) Have no trouble so far with the old cup system either however I used only couple hundred hours tops regardless I have this for so long. Does the old on need to be greased by the way? However I have not much comparison, only the X56 so far which vastly inferior in feeling at least. Could be great to try out the Orion2 also regardless.
@@gabortoth1977 I think you would immediately notice the difference in precision over the Warthog's gimbal. No matter if you get an AVA or Orion2 base. You could grease your Warthog a bit and check out some mods, like a better spring, if you want to keep it. There's a ton of tutorials on RUclips on the topic. :) I have reviews of the trackhat and the Tobii head trackers on my channel. I don't like having to wear a clip for tracking, so I like these types of trackers.
As someone that never played any flight sim , besides War Thunder but that game , mouse aim works fine , i decided to get the T.Flight Hotas one just to play MFS24 , will arrive in couple hours , i know is the cheapeast one , reason i got it , i assume is miles ahead using my xbox controller , even that i was having fun testing the game , so is a upgrade regardless.
I was looking at Virpil back when Distant Worlds 2 was going on in Elite: Dangerous, but I was already running the X-55 set and there were apparently very long(6+ month) wait times for shipments to the US on Virpil gear. Have they gotten faster?
@@algroyp3r Yeah sure it's better. But the Ursa is still a decent stick. Unbeatable for sub 100€ in the current sales. It's the in my opinion new default budget option. Gladiator is a step up. Then comes the cam/spring crowd.
I own turtle Beach headphones and they are the highest quality, sound, and comfortable design. To see the turtle beach hotus not be great is truly saddening.
@@JamesStevenson-c5p VKB and Virpil. Winwing is slowly catching up. Thrustmaster also supplies spare parts for the Warthog and above. For the majority of the "big brand products" like the x-52 or turtlebeach stuff there's not a lot to expect after warranty ends.
Virpil. I've been using a dual Alpha Prime set extensively for 2 years now for space Sims, and the throttle and pedals for regular flight stuff. They just work flawlessly and feel great in the hands. Premium all the way. No issues. Pricey? Kinda. Buy once, cry once. I can literally see myself passing these on to my kids when my flight is over.
im wondering: WHY NOBODY SELLS MID-RANGE THROTTLES......🤫🤫🤫🤫 We have had such situation for years, that we can buy only budget old thrustmaster TWS16000 and muuuuuch more expensive throttles for most advanced users. Nothing inbetween. Maybe VKB or Winwing could design something in mid-range category (around 100-120$), as a complement for the Gladiator/Ursa Minor joysticks ? Im sure Ursa Minor joystick+throttle for 150-200$ would be true bestseller.
The Gunfighter has a twist option, you could use that for rudder control. VR all the way for immersion. Head tracking for sweaty try hard dog fighting on multiplayer servers because of easier spotting in some games and situations. I personally always use VR because it's so much more immersive.
Hey I just looked and saw that the combo would be almost $700 and that’s a bit past my price range I like the stecs throttle and was wondering what would be a good joystick to pair with it?
@@WatchMysh Is it the space combat one? And this joystick has no issues and should last pretty long? I want to make sure I get a good one for the price. One last question is how do I know what to key bind the different buttons to? Does the game do it automatically or is there videos?
@@masterbuilderbrady Yes, its the space combat one. It's called VKB Gladiator. Very durable, great support and the possibility to even upgrade the gimbal later on. You can usually bind the buttons directly within the game.
@@WatchMysh Yeah. Given that the omni throttle is just a Gladiator tilted on its side, I'm curious where it slots into the recommendations, paired with the stick proper.
@@azuroth8609 As I said in the video: It's the most flexible choice with premium build quality in the upper middle price segment. Only thing you're missing are detents.
@@Speedy-vt4mm damn you're right! Thanks for pointing it out, I was sure all of TB's stuff was Xbox compatible. First note to go into the sticky. Thanks again!
Thank you for the video - I love my VR Space Sims - Elite Dangerous, X Rebirth VR and have been using the T16000m HOTAS. The question I have is about the most portable HOTAS system - I travel extensively and am wondering what system is considered to be the most compact and portable? (Even if it is not something high end or regular. I have been thinking of how I might adapt flight controls to even different formats or using VR tracking for in game adaptations for control. Would anyone have any thoughts?
@@stevenstemmler7573 I think the Gladiator would be suitable here because you can easily disconnect the grip and the base is kinda small compared to the higher end gimbals.
Gimbal video: cutting right now. I grossly underestimated how long this year's hotas roundup would eat up in production. Promise will be kept though: next upload will be the gimbal deep dive! Link will replace this text of shame. oops. didnt mean to cause you embarrassment :)
Here's my problem: The best HOTAS i can get in my country (south africa) is the X56, and mine has every issue you listed. If i wanted anything higher quality (not having twist functionality is a dealbreaker, sorry), i have to import. The next best option is the Turtlebeach. Cup and ball aside, it at least doesn't have all the issues of the X56. Anything else and i'm looking at a price point that is completely unaffordable given my countries pathetic currency. It really is unfortunate that there are no companies that have a decent gimbal at a decent price
@@WatchMysh taxes and duties are, in fact, that high. In addition, our national postal service has about an 80% non-delivery rate on imports (coz they get stolen). I would love to come to Europe, but the exchange rate is almost 20:1 (20 Rand to 1 Euro), and a "well earning" salary is around 15000/m which is around 780 euro. before tax
Would it be a good idea to pair a orion 2 throttle with the ursa minor one of my friends did it and it works well for him but I am wondering If I shoud just go straight for a orion 2 or vkb stick
Sure you can do that, why not. It's a cheap-ish way to get some quality equipment. The Gladiator or the Orion2 are better, sure, but also more expensive.
Virpil offers a large choice of grips. However, you can use Thrustmaster's grips on Virpil bases, as they share the same connectors. If you want to use VKB's grips on VIrpil bases, you will need an adapter. Winwing have their own connector, so an adapter would have to be used. Moreover, higher-end custom brands will offer you the choice of the grip-base connector.
Still no right-handed throttle for lefties? Currently using a Virpil Alpha Prime with z-extension and dampener (WarBRD-D) as an omnithrottle but I am desperate for detents, especially in space sims where I need to find dead center quickly (the LEDs react way too slow and needing to glance at the stick to determine its state isn't ideal).
Have you tried changing the cams to the more V shaped ones that give a very pronounced center? You should have several sets of cams in different shapes to swap out... > ) 》} something like those anyways. Easy to change and try out.
Why even talk about logitech crap and turtle beach shit? Just dismiss it all at the beginning instead of wasting time talking about it and start with gladiator or ursa minor.
@@Smood47 Yes, it's okay to do that. Some people don't have a choice, for example south africe has only a few of the options available, hardcore import tax and unreliable customs. Things get "lost". So they at least need to know what's the best of the worst. As you might have noticed there's not a lot of them seen in my recommendations and I point out most flaws (gimbals, potentiometers, switches,...) while discussing them. I just don't use the word "junk". That's all.
Notes and additons:
- The Flight Deck isn't Xbox compatible! Only the VelocityOne stick and yoke are (thanks @speedy6369)
- Clarification: The Ursa Minor has less deflection than the Gladiator, so an Omni throttle is a better throttle replacement. A TWCS has longer throw and is better as a dedicated throttle
Also, in the VKB STECS overview (18:27), you used the same picture for the STECS Standard and Max.
Thank you for your informative videos!
ordered the HOTAS orion 2 with Stiker ace ex 2 throttle based on your earlier recommendations. Its currently on sale through black friday for $110 off! Think I paid about $436 usd. Now if only MSFS could get their act together and start supporting more sticks natively! Hey that would be a great video for you to do. A walk through on setting up the Winwing Orion 2 and throttle in MSFS!
@@pctatc66 noted :)
great video, great guide.
Man, this was and is again Best hotas guide on RUclips.
Congratulations.
@@gregorion28 Thanks! Already taking notes on how to improve next year's update. :)
I appreciate these round-ups!
Thanks for the support! Goes a long way! These guides take an enormous amount of time to make - really appreciate your donation! ❤
I really appreciate the significant level of effort you put into your channel's content.
Your in-depth reviews and answers I've seen you provide in r/hotas were a significant factor in my decision to buy the Winwing HOTAS MAX with the MFSSB stick base, to replace my 14 year-old, worn-out Saitek X-65f.
Thanks again, and please keep up the good work!
Thanks a lot for the support and taking the time to write that comment. 🤗 Glad I could help - and I hope you're happy with your choice so far. Really appreciate the donation. The time required for creating this kind of content is considerable & the niche is too small to cover all of that with ad revenue.
Started with the with the T-Flight, moved up to the Thustmaster t16000m, and now rocking Twin VKB Gladiator NXT EVO Premium Joysticks and they are prefect. 🥰
Solid choices on your way up :)
A big thank you for such a straightforward informational video. This gives me a good basis of personal upgrades from my gladiator evo and stecs, but more importantly, gives me something other than the 3d pro to suggest to friends looking to try out sim flying without breaking the bank. I was hoping winwing would come through with the ursa minor, and it looks like they very much did. thanks again!
@@Essobee You're welcome! Glad you enjoyed the guide! 🤗 Share it around or support otherwise if you feel like it.
I bought a Gladiator, still very happy with that thing, can recommend it to anyone.
@@Douwe02 Gladiators are awesome. Like I said: that's what I would start with.
@@WatchMysh Yeah, I'm going to upgrade to the STECS very soon. VKB's customer service and quality is something very important for me and they delivered.
Years ago returned X-52 pro and got vkb Gladiator NXT EVO premium felt like a massive upgrade that was cheaper too (seems to be $165 atm for USA)
Premium for 165 is stupidly good value
Literally just watched your 2023 video, it was absolutely brilliant, excited now to watch this updated video, great to see you go immediately into detail about the core features to know about, keep up the great work!
@@slippingjimmys thanks! I've streamlined everything a bit because of the added gear. 32 minutes in long enough already
Eyyyyyy, it's that time of the year again! Time for enlightenment!
Excellent guide, thank you for your effort!
@@Xspy70 Giving it all for the community lol Thanks!
feeding the algorithm! just recently bought the first of 2 NXT EVOs to use as throttle thanks to your 2023 guide and i love it, these vids are so useful!
@@NotGabiTime Thanks man! Yes, feeeeed it! Feed it thoroughly! :D
Very good buyer's guide. Every year, it gets better, and it remains the best one imho : not too long, reasonable pricing (for the market), good points/arguments.
@@PeypaMikko-1842 thanks! I always try to keep it as brief as possible. With the market getting more and more crowded I might have to restructure next year maybe.
Thanks for the good review again! :)
Thanks for the support! Really appreciate it! 🤗
This is the best HOTAS-guide on YT - i really appreciate your hard work -Thx!
Thanks!! Awesome username by the way lol
Amazing work, thank you!! Ursa Minor Arliner R + TWCS Throttle is my combo!
Glad you like the roundup! You're welcome! 🤗
Thanks soo much….Im here from 2023 🎉Love your content
@@cleontaerolle242 Thanks! Hf! 🤗
Thanks I use the 2023 to acquiree VKB Gladiator Premium and STECS Bases love both review you did it
!!!!
@@XellosUEA Good purchase! :)
Just watched your 2023 versions because i wanted to upgrade and look at that 2024 is online too xD
Hf! Hope you get good Inspiration from it! :)
@WatchMysh yes definitely. Just getting warmed up in msfs2024 and will probably buy something in those black deals
Fantastic video again. Thanks for pulling all this together. The definitive guide!
Thanks! :)
Great comparison and recommendations, also can you do the one for flight pedals too as I’m looking to get one for my setup.
I might. :) But have to get a bunch of pedals to be able to really make a quality video.
This is perfect timing I watched the 2023 options a week ago
@@huntercantrell347 Nice! Hf watching the new version and tell me if it helped and what's missing. :)
OMG Love that T-Shirt! Brings back fond memories!
@@GregoryAlexander-n1w that's why it was an immediate buy. Top 5 Amiga games?
Hmmm. Hero's Quest was the number 1. I use to play it with my son when he was 2yrs old, and taught him how to read doing it. Lol! 2nd game would have to be Balder's Gate, 3rd Microprose F117-A flight sim. After that I got hooked on 3D modeling with Imagine 2.0. Then I moved to the Amiga 2000HD and got into Video Production for a time. Yep! best days of my life dude! I'm 65yrs old now and having fun with my 4 grandkids on there gaming/art & design intrest.
@@GregoryAlexander-n1w Living the life my man! I loved Turrican, X-Out, Nitro, Gods and Pinball Fantasies. I'm from 81. So the Amiga was like a miracle machine for me in the late 80s and early 90s.
Wow finally! Long waiting for this updated video
@@ghoste7546 Hope you like it! 🤗
Been looking for this one ! 2023 was a banger o7
@@yunninn2007 Thanks! Then you'll like this one even more! It's 10 minutes longer and much more comprehensive. :)
I started with the T-Flight Hotas back in 2014 and then upgraded to the T16000M Hotas in 2020. I'm waiting for the T16000M to wear out or die before I upgrade.
Totally Love your annual HOTAS RoundUP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@powerplay743 You're welcome! 🤗 I love making them!
Great video! I might have missed it on the video but what do you think about the virpil's VPC WarBRD-D Base. it's quite "affordable"
@@SaiyanJin85 you missed it :) It's great. Perfect for desktop use, complete set of internals (dampers etc).
Yes! I have been waiting!
Hope you like the guide! :)
I've been using the Logitech x56 stick and throttle, as well as the logitech rudder pedals for 3 years now. I like them so much that even though there are a million better choices, I can't convince myself switching will be worth it.
@@drkcyd1 as long as you're happy and everything works, it's perfect! Fingers crossed your X-56 keeps going strong.
This video came in right time, just started thinking about buying one
@@LuPaulo_ you're welcome! It you got any questions just ask. :)
How funny is that. Yesterday I watched your 2023 Video and bought the VKB Gladiator. Glad you still recommend it 😆. Could you do a seperate Video about throttles and rudder pedals? Last time I flew MSFS was Flight Sim X as a kid, but I was always interested and flew in a simulator not long ago and it was so much fun. Its not about money, but its about not spending money useless and I dont think I need e.g. rudder pedals for 1000 Euros, I just want to get most value for my money. Which rudder pedals would you reccoment to pair with this stick?
Best affordable pedals are the WinWing Orion2 without the damper. They should be on sale right now I guess. A video on throttles would be doable, yes. Maybe once the new Virpil stuff comes out in 2025.
@ But they are nearly 300€, how is that affordable 😅?
@@BenBensen293 lol yes I know it's not really cheap. But they are the best from a value perspective. Everything below is kinda meh. If you can get the TurtleBeach pedals for like 160 or so that'll be an idea. Otherwise check out the VKB T-Rudders, maybe as B-stock, if you don't need toe brakes.
@ Ok thanks for your opinion!
You state that only Virpil offers tilted grips. VKB does offer Omni Throttle adapters for the Gunfighter base in both left and right hand variants. Note that you cannot use the Modern Combat Grips with the Omn Throttle Adapters, so you would have to use Space Combat Grips or the other two.
Yes, that's what I meant. I was referring to the grips, not to the gimbals. My wording is a bit unclear and it can be understood as you did. I wanted to say that only Virpil offers high end tilted grip AND base combos.
Ffbeast and vpc force rhino?
@@santigallardo3342 Maybe next year. I decided to make the cut at 500-600€ for "affordable ffb". Rhino is 800+ as well as ffbeast. And I don't have first hand experience with them.
Thank you for this super informative review!
I think I'm going to go for the WinWing Ursa Minor for now, and I might pick up a throttle later. I intend to play some more space sims, but I don't play them that often so undecided between the TWCS throttle and the secondary WinWing stick for the throttle. I see that the left hand throttle variant of the WinWing is out of stock in the EU warehouse currently though. The VKB gladitor space combat edition does look amazing but I'm not sure if I will play enough flight sims to justify the cost, and from your description it seems like the Ursa Minor is a good alternative for those getting into the hobby! I do see a lot of negative comments online about the Ursa Minor vs the VKB Gladiator claiming its just a rip off and that VKB is worth the extra cost, do you have any comments on that?
The Ursa copies the gimbal, the rest is not a rip-off, but a step down. They play in two different price leagues. The Ursa Minor sits between the Gladiator Standard and Premium from a feature perspective, but only costs half. The switches are worse, but still better than those of the rest of the sub 100€ division. So besides the gimbal those two sticks aren't really comparable since one is "Premium budget" with a mid-range gimbal and the other is "Premium mid-range" (better materials, heavier base etc....).
@@WatchMysh Awesome, thanks for the insight! I guess since it's new it's gonna get some criticism until its tested
@@humvee202 a lot of the criticism comes from the fact that WinWing copied the gimbal. If you ignore this fact, the stick is perfectly fine for the price.
Banger as always 🙏
You really upload this 1 day after I ordered my first one? Did check the pervious one tho!
Lol I tried to get it out faster but grossly underestimated the effort the increased production quality would take. What did you order? :)
@@WatchMysh i got the Turtle Beach Flight Deck, though I got it for like 250. So while you didn't recommend it, for that price it's pretty good no?
@@dusbasgames I personally wouldn't pay 250 bucks for a cup/ball construction when there's an Ursa Minor on sale for below 100. Add an Orion2 throttle and you're not far above the 250 bucks of the FD, but two leagues in quality.
@@WatchMysh unfortunately didn't have the choice. Was partially a gift for my birthday and had a big gift card for a webshop that didn't have the widest choice.
I think like 20 different options in total
By the way I was planning to buy either Winwing MFDs or F16 ICP (I already have thrustmaster t16000 combo, works perfectly)
Are they good stuff or it may be better to invest in some better hotas ?
Thanks o/
@@yunninn2007 hard to say. The Mfds are sth you keep "forever" mostly so I think it's a good investment. I personally would invest in a proper grip/base first though. If you have a TWCS you don't need twist and could upgrade to a ViperAce/Orion2 for a reasonable amount of money. It's a day and night difference to the t16000.
Hi Mysh! This was a fantastic review just what I needed!
Have some question if you don't mind. :)
I am struggling to eventually upgrade the Thrustmaster Hotas Warthog system (from 2014) , or completely replace it at least the stick itself (the throttle quadrant is super, however never could set up for reverse thrust and such, but this must be a user error :) ). Regardless of the cup system I really like the feeling and feedback of that and the resolution. But I really hate that it has no mini joystick so I cannot look around, hate to use the mouse, it is not the same with pov switches. :( What I like in the Warthog also, that is really heavy so I can just place them on the table without fixing onto something so that it doesn't move.
I have also a "backup" which I bought really cheap a Logitech X-56, and really loved the analog look around stick on that one, however the began to creep already (by the way can this be mitigated by lubricating with something?). What I really dislike in the X56 is that is has so unrealistic too light "mushy" feeling, it has no resistance almost (I think it has already the heaviest spring but I am not sure bought it used)
I play most FS2020 and now 2024. What upgrade/replacement route would you suggest (can be premium too, but no forcefeedback that is just too expensive...)? Also should be heavy enough so that it stays while playing. Probably I would need "only" stick/base replacement. But then I also cannot sell the whole as a "set".
Oh... I use a Thrustmaster pendular rudder I think I am more than happy with that, no upgrade need on that front.
Please advice and thank you for good content!
Regards,
Gabor
Thanks! :) Hm, if you liked the Warthog in general I'd say you could get a WinWing ViperAce/Orion2 with shaker kit for the mini stick. It's lighter but has some suctions cups that work really well.
Or you could replace the whole set. You wouldn't need the shaker kit for the grip then, since all Orion2 throttles come with a mini stick on the grip.
Or you just keep your setup if you like it and get some head tracking instead to look around? The trackhat V2 is kinda capable and doesn't break the bank for example.
The X-56's jitter usually can't be fixed. It's failing potentiometers.
@@WatchMysh Thank you! Checking currently the Orion2. Especially there is Black Friday everywhere. :) Suction cup isn't really good :( My gaming table is full "mouse pad" :( something that is heavy enough? Or some good 3rd party bases? Besides to mount it up on a heavier kitchen "chopboard" or something (wouldn't look too good however, but that is my only idea right now... :) ) Other stuff that is heavy enough (maybe from Virpil, VKB?)
@@gabortoth1977 the others also don't suppy really heavy bases. It's only TM. But you could just use the Orion without the cups and put some anti slip pads on it. It's surely heavy enough. My table doesn't work with suction cups and I didn't have any problems.
Option 2: get an Ava base. As far as I know it's compatible with the Warthog base plate. Then get an Orion throttle and you have your mini stick while retaining the heavy stick and base.
I personally would go for the Orion since a lighter grip is so much more comfortable than the top heavy TM. But maybe you're fine with the AVA and your old grip?
But as I said: why not just get head tracking if you're happy with your config so far?
@@WatchMysh Thanks again! I will look into that head tracking stuff too! Could be an option yes. Yes I really love that super heavy TM stuff and the stick feel. :) Have no trouble so far with the old cup system either however I used only couple hundred hours tops regardless I have this for so long. Does the old on need to be greased by the way? However I have not much comparison, only the X56 so far which vastly inferior in feeling at least. Could be great to try out the Orion2 also regardless.
@@gabortoth1977 I think you would immediately notice the difference in precision over the Warthog's gimbal. No matter if you get an AVA or Orion2 base.
You could grease your Warthog a bit and check out some mods, like a better spring, if you want to keep it. There's a ton of tutorials on RUclips on the topic. :)
I have reviews of the trackhat and the Tobii head trackers on my channel. I don't like having to wear a clip for tracking, so I like these types of trackers.
As someone that never played any flight sim , besides War Thunder but that game , mouse aim works fine , i decided to get the T.Flight Hotas one just to play MFS24 , will arrive in couple hours , i know is the cheapeast one , reason i got it , i assume is miles ahead using my xbox controller , even that i was having fun testing the game , so is a upgrade regardless.
@@Thakkii It is.
yoke lineup next?
@@nicgamez I'd gladly make one but I don't own yokes, so...
I was looking at Virpil back when Distant Worlds 2 was going on in Elite: Dangerous, but I was already running the X-55 set and there were apparently very long(6+ month) wait times for shipments to the US on Virpil gear. Have they gotten faster?
@@BrokenHammerLLC A lot. If you want to be absolutely sure just ask the support about delivery times.
It's a great time to be alive!
The flight sim gear rennaissance is awesome, yes :)
so.. where is this link for your gimbal video? HAHA,. im not seeing it even though you swore you posted it!
Oh damn lol ... Wait I'll update the description 🙈
@@WatchMysh LMAO! sorry man.. had to bring it to your attention
@@pctatc66 Thought I might be able to sneak it in next week 🥷
Please make bookmarks next time or a tier list to make it easier to consume your content.
@@Smood47 They are coming. Just couldn't find the time yet.
I use my logitech extreme 3d pro as an ebrake for racing games
Would you say the Gladiator is better or worse than the WW equivalent?
@@algroyp3r it costs more and is a lot better. You get what you pay for.
@@WatchMysh THX. I have the Orion2, but someone was asking me for budget recommendations. I thought that the Gladiator looks a lot better.
@@algroyp3r Yeah sure it's better. But the Ursa is still a decent stick. Unbeatable for sub 100€ in the current sales. It's the in my opinion new default budget option. Gladiator is a step up. Then comes the cam/spring crowd.
I own turtle Beach headphones and they are the highest quality, sound, and comfortable design. To see the turtle beach hotus not be great is truly saddening.
They had a good chance to take over the entry level market with their ideas and concepts. Then they opted for flash over decent mechanics...
I one time found a harriar av-8 stick at a church sale but I don't know how to hook it up :(
Which brand? Or a real one?
Who has the best support or are all devices Disposable?
@@JamesStevenson-c5p VKB and Virpil. Winwing is slowly catching up. Thrustmaster also supplies spare parts for the Warthog and above.
For the majority of the "big brand products" like the x-52 or turtlebeach stuff there's not a lot to expect after warranty ends.
Maschine !
@@spaceninja5709 Danke! War aber auch ein ganz schöner act, das Ding.
Der Letzte Satz macht dich sympathischer als jeder Ausbilder ^^
long term use with good support warranty ranking?
@@chulian1819 good idea! Thx! I'll include that in the next Update.
Virpil. I've been using a dual Alpha Prime set extensively for 2 years now for space Sims, and the throttle and pedals for regular flight stuff. They just work flawlessly and feel great in the hands. Premium all the way. No issues. Pricey? Kinda. Buy once, cry once. I can literally see myself passing these on to my kids when my flight is over.
im wondering: WHY NOBODY SELLS MID-RANGE THROTTLES......🤫🤫🤫🤫
We have had such situation for years, that we can buy only budget old thrustmaster TWS16000 and muuuuuch more expensive throttles for most advanced users. Nothing inbetween.
Maybe VKB or Winwing could design something in mid-range category (around 100-120$), as a complement for the Gladiator/Ursa Minor joysticks ? Im sure Ursa Minor joystick+throttle for 150-200$ would be true bestseller.
@@gregorion28 I have NO idea also. It's free money for anyone releasing a decent mid range throttle. No competition far and wide.
Does the vkb gunfighter and stecs have peddles built in or will I need to buy them. Do you recommended head tracking or vr for flight simulator games
The Gunfighter has a twist option, you could use that for rudder control. VR all the way for immersion. Head tracking for sweaty try hard dog fighting on multiplayer servers because of easier spotting in some games and situations.
I personally always use VR because it's so much more immersive.
Hey I just looked and saw that the combo would be almost $700 and that’s a bit past my price range I like the stecs throttle and was wondering what would be a good joystick to pair with it?
@@masterbuilderbrady Gladiator NXT EVO Premium if you're already shopping at VKB's
@@WatchMysh Is it the space combat one? And this joystick has no issues and should last pretty long? I want to make sure I get a good one for the price. One last question is how do I know what to key bind the different buttons to? Does the game do it automatically or is there videos?
@@masterbuilderbrady Yes, its the space combat one. It's called VKB Gladiator. Very durable, great support and the possibility to even upgrade the gimbal later on. You can usually bind the buttons directly within the game.
What are your thoughts on a Gladiator + Gladiator Throttle combo?
@@azuroth8609 you mean a Gladiator and Gladiator Omni?
@@WatchMysh Yeah. Given that the omni throttle is just a Gladiator tilted on its side, I'm curious where it slots into the recommendations, paired with the stick proper.
@@azuroth8609 As I said in the video: It's the most flexible choice with premium build quality in the upper middle price segment. Only thing you're missing are detents.
14:40 Turtlebeach velocityone flight deck isn't xbox compatible
@@Speedy-vt4mm damn you're right! Thanks for pointing it out, I was sure all of TB's stuff was Xbox compatible. First note to go into the sticky. Thanks again!
Thank you for the video - I love my VR Space Sims - Elite Dangerous, X Rebirth VR and have been using the T16000m HOTAS.
The question I have is about the most portable HOTAS system - I travel extensively and am wondering what system is considered to be the most compact and portable? (Even if it is not something high end or regular. I have been thinking of how I might adapt flight controls to even different formats or using VR tracking for in game adaptations for control. Would anyone have any thoughts?
@@stevenstemmler7573 I think the Gladiator would be suitable here because you can easily disconnect the grip and the base is kinda small compared to the higher end gimbals.
@@WatchMysh Thanks for that, I will take a closer look at the Gladiator
Gimbal video: cutting right now. I grossly underestimated how long this year's hotas roundup would eat up in production. Promise will be kept though: next upload will be the gimbal deep dive! Link will replace this text of shame. oops. didnt mean to cause you embarrassment :)
@@pctatc66 lol you're #2 already. You guys are quick to investigate.
Oh wait no, it's you again. 😄
Thx!!!!
@@sven790d7 You're welcome! :)
But the games thah use the force feedback?i have a saitk the use in Windows xp
Flight Simulator 2020/2024, IL2 Sturmovik and DCS all use FFB for example
@WatchMysh i have the il2but they use Windows xp
Here's my problem: The best HOTAS i can get in my country (south africa) is the X56, and mine has every issue you listed. If i wanted anything higher quality (not having twist functionality is a dealbreaker, sorry), i have to import. The next best option is the Turtlebeach. Cup and ball aside, it at least doesn't have all the issues of the X56. Anything else and i'm looking at a price point that is completely unaffordable given my countries pathetic currency. It really is unfortunate that there are no companies that have a decent gimbal at a decent price
@@Frankenllama man that's really cruel. :( Why not Import? Shipping and taxes that high? Come visit Europe and get a set here. :)
@@WatchMysh taxes and duties are, in fact, that high. In addition, our national postal service has about an 80% non-delivery rate on imports (coz they get stolen). I would love to come to Europe, but the exchange rate is almost 20:1 (20 Rand to 1 Euro), and a "well earning" salary is around 15000/m which is around 780 euro. before tax
@@Frankenllama 80%? Holy shit that's like... official robbery. That sucks big time. Well I'd get the TB over the X56 then.
Would it be a good idea to pair a orion 2 throttle with the ursa minor one of my friends did it and it works well for him but I am wondering If I shoud just go straight for a orion 2 or vkb stick
Sure you can do that, why not. It's a cheap-ish way to get some quality equipment. The Gladiator or the Orion2 are better, sure, but also more expensive.
Are there any other grips compatible with Virpil bases?
Virpil offers a large choice of grips. However, you can use Thrustmaster's grips on Virpil bases, as they share the same connectors. If you want to use VKB's grips on VIrpil bases, you will need an adapter. Winwing have their own connector, so an adapter would have to be used. Moreover, higher-end custom brands will offer you the choice of the grip-base connector.
@@PeypaMikko-1842 Thanks for answering the question! Nothing to add. :)
Thank you. I appreciate the reply
"random Nuclear conflict" Made me crack Up (I would Most likely be affected If Ruso Ukraine goes Nuclear)
Let's hope it doesn't. Here, have a Heinz:
Still no right-handed throttle for lefties? Currently using a Virpil Alpha Prime with z-extension and dampener (WarBRD-D) as an omnithrottle but I am desperate for detents, especially in space sims where I need to find dead center quickly (the LEDs react way too slow and needing to glance at the stick to determine its state isn't ideal).
@@Karackal Nothing there, still. :( No detents for lefties.
Have you tried changing the cams to the more V shaped ones that give a very pronounced center? You should have several sets of cams in different shapes to swap out... > ) 》} something like those anyways. Easy to change and try out.
@@CMDR_Shokwave Good idea! Love my comment section. :) Thanks for helping!
@@CMDR_Shokwave That is indeed a great idea! I will try that, thank you very much!!
Why even talk about logitech crap and turtle beach shit? Just dismiss it all at the beginning instead of wasting time talking about it and start with gladiator or ursa minor.
@@Smood47 people need to know why these products are problematic. Leaving them out without explanation doesn't help.
@@WatchMysh I'm not saying leave them out.. I said mention that they are junk. Instead you are going over every single feature and button of them.
@@Smood47 Yes, it's okay to do that. Some people don't have a choice, for example south africe has only a few of the options available, hardcore import tax and unreliable customs. Things get "lost". So they at least need to know what's the best of the worst. As you might have noticed there's not a lot of them seen in my recommendations and I point out most flaws (gimbals, potentiometers, switches,...) while discussing them. I just don't use the word "junk". That's all.
X 52 Pro is total crap. avoid it at all cost.
There are better options nowadays, yes