My man, if you are going to make a tier list video you need to 1) unnecessarily stretch the video to 10 mins 2) have big flashy graphics 3) make wild statements with absolutely zero qualifiers such as ‘things might change’. Awesome vid btw :)
As a bear main, Bear is down with pally its horrible. The hero talents are Dull and boring if i wanted to be a cat id play feral and if i wanted to do arcane damage id play Boomie. The spec tree is pathetic you have talents like pulverize that are a waste of talent because you will never take maybe on very rare occasions
I was able to test all the tanks by doing solo pulls in M0 and I'm right there with you on where they are ATM. Paladin felt horrible... I feel warrior is super tanky it was nice.. DH sigil change was needed tbh..
I felt the same thing - prot paladin’s surv/dam is undertuned. Bear is good and going into kitty to do damage on Tyran/Raid is interesting. The ST Benefit has to be better than just pressing mangle though. Hopefully blizzard changes that.
I think pala may need a little "niche" tree rework like happen to dk. I feel underwhelming playing prot pala because of how limited your talent build choice is, same build unless you want to play more safer by sacrificing dps/utility for more self sustain but still barely enough as is now to stay alive. Especially for me who doesnt put much of trust in healers in pugs. For Dh spike and DR uptime is an issue due to stats and little tuning + most of player are way to used to how busted dh is on live right now. Moonbear is on sitting bench due being forced to play into Beam which isnt that good and self heal from arcane dmg isnt that great, Druid of claw is just too good to pass on combined with how many talents can synergize Thrash and Ursok fury. Honestly not a fan when Blizz forces you to play talents that are either undertuned or just not as good of a choice. Anyway thanks for nice vid and hopefully they atleast tune those "underclassmen" soon and sorry for a bunch of writing😀
Considering the history of WoW, it's not uncommon for something to go into a new exp kinda broken and useless, then they fix it or make a small change that makes it a lot better, sometimes even OP. Think about how monk went into DF and how much better they got once they added the healing orbs. Paladin have always ended up a solid tank as well for the most part, and usually one of the best carry tanks, so not too worried about them. Might not be great for S1 though, but that is usually the case anyway due to lack of haste. In S2 I expect to see them up there again, if not before.
im hoping to see my beloved brew rise this expac, felt like blizzard had either forgotten we existed or they just didnt give a shit about monk tanks! but this is music to my ears
as warrior main I’ve always felt like prot paladin will always be #1 just amount of utility it offers no matter what position they are in beta or live it’s just odd that class is just OP
i still havent understood how ox stance the new talent works. either i havent understood how it works, or i dont want to accept the fact that it works around 1 single instance of damage being needed to proc it. can you please explain because the tooltip doesnt really say what the accurate margin of increased stagger is after you get the aforementioned damage instance. is it like bounce back or something?
they should just add WOG healing scaling so you can top yourself on crit , i don't know why they added tons of health and didn't bother to look at the mitigation scaling , i know its still in beta but they even announced that they wanna nute down the "top someone with one spell" so im kinda worried if they mean't toping yourself too.
thank you great master, would you test that I found the purifying brew is 70% with Harmony tanlent. And hope you will make a video part about tank trinkets. Hope you good.
After the nerf to VDH sigils, BDK is definitely on par to become the VDH of TWW. Unless they severely reduce the amount of stops required in M+ there's no way BDK isn't the meta tank by a hue margin.
BDK has no where close to the amount of CC vdh had. 2 Single target grips, 1 aoe grip on a 1:30 CD that silences for 3, blinding sleet 1 min cd, and asphyxiate ST stun. 3 ST cc's and 2 aoe ccs on long cooldowns with no cdr. Vdh had 7 aoe stops and 1 ST stop. 2 of those aoe stops were 6 second silences (9 with evoker). Also dh gives a 5% magic buff, dk gives nothing. Also the fear skips vdh can do which can by pass truesight. They just genuinely aren't comparable
besides that whas Equinox said...Bdk has the same Problem every season...at some point in high keys they getting gutted from trash. Its hard to say how it will feel in higher keys right now. Also its tooo early. What my experience is so far...that we dont need that much CC in the keys right now. Ppl need to get away from ,,our VDH got all ccs and kicks,,
I feel a random guy takes over each season and expac. Why are they so ignorant to see that the mass is willing to lend a hand. Some spec shines while others just have a bandage solution... If i had been given the chance to change these specs etc. I would enroll people with exp, knowledge and atleast plays the class/spec.
@@Equinoxmonk i suppose, but imo they should revert that. It was fun to be able to properly pack mobs without beeing ridiculously op. I think they should bring other tanks to that level of utility and fun. Pugging high M+ keys is hell without vengeance.. ive done it for years with Brewmaster and it's painful to wipe a key on one cast going through. Also, with the buffs to Blood it feels like the next vengeance dh.. so why even nerf vengeance 😅 everyone will play that if the numbers are decent.
@@guillaumelabonte2702 Nah blood dk doesnt have anywhere close to vdh level of control, issue with vdh level of util is that ontop of other classes CC you pmuch just ignore all mob abilities minus unccable ones which isn't good for the game. Having less casts overall and having to rotate kicks AND stops is better than just perma ccing mobs
@@Equinoxmonk i personnaly hate to have to watch other people interrupt cooldown. I shouldnt have to track those, it ruins the fun. I dont mind having less casters but i dont want to have to track everyone's every single ability, there is already a lot to think about. Id rather have better control than that personnaly. This way im independant. The game isnt only for premade groups or mythic +30 keys. Ive done some 26 past season withou the need of that.
Tier lists need to be done with, I understand your intention with this video was to put a broad scope on where these specs are at currently are compared to eachother but majority won’t see it like that and will just see this as “oh this is best I must play 1 these 3 specs”
Yea I agree, I just put it out because people ask me for them and I like talking about the current state of things and it also brings light to issues certain specs are facing
why does the perspective of other players matter? a massive number of the wow pop will follow the easiest and most forgiving classes regardless, because this is what the meta orbits around. however the main challenge is to find what is cohesive and consistent across the board. like death knight for example, never high and never low. always in the middle and reliable. the sole reason equinox is good with brewmaster and is also biased towards it, is because it has a much higher margin of error and lacks the forgiving nature of all the other tank classes. him being good with something that isnt forgiving, means he understands that there is an underlying pattern of intellectual excellence required in order to carry it towards the success that it allows. brewmaster having a massively different pattern of damage intake makes it automatically better as a tank. the entire past of brewmaster being the most error-full tank, and only now through the double cb, elixir, and ox stance, and the 10% mastery reinforcement, brewmaster has finally achieved being what it should be, something that death knight has been for its entirety. the historical tier list position of blood death knight being a class A tank is indefinite. you know where brewmaster has been so far? it has been in the second page forever, and that says a lot about its design. now we get a chance to see where the new changes will take us. and lets not forget, this is not a naguura tier list, its an equinox tier list. for perspective, the liquid guy maximum has made tier lists with the assistance of others but he still failed against echo countless times. i know that this correlation doesnt seem substantial, but it comes under a different perspective with equinox being no1 with brewmaster when its the worst tank across the board. sometimes you have to carve your understanding in a more imposing manner. a tier list from a winner is marginally better than a tier list from a non winner. radical right? good.
People have been meta slaving since before tier lists, the "tier lists ruined gaming" narrative is way overdone. If you wanna put the blame somewhere you can maybe put it on esports for driving people to be more competitive. Other than that, minmaxing isn't anything new or to be unexpected. The reality is that some classes do better and bring more to the table than others, and as people play they become more and more aware of that regardless of tier lists. I won't bring a survival to my group not because its f tier, i know it doesnt do shit for damage, has less defensives, and weak cc. Tier lists are just an easy scapegoat
@@grenadanotthecountry people who are against tier lists are just self made gatekeeping ivory tower campers who didnt get to pass law school and they chose the second best option which allows them to dictate other people, and that is imposing their dogmatic protocol and overall gatekeeping on others in a video game. some classes are better than others, and they think tier lists drive the meta instead of the quality of the class itself. ive heard many streamers explicitly say that and it blew my mind. i was like wtf f no tier lists are obviously observations and in no way they dictate what people will prefer to play.
mathematically speaking, brewmaster and bdk are in the frontline of tanking hierarchy. brewmaster needed 1 big change towards the right direction and it got it. for blood death knight, the bone charges giving a massive amount of armor and haste can land you in any difficulty - guided of course with the assistance of death strike. what brewmaster lacked heavily was what death knight always had, an on demand failsafe. now brewmaster can elixir every 15 seconds, then into cb, then to cb again, and then on elixir again, and repeat indefinitely. this is a big deal for the brewmaster design because especially when paired with the massive amount of the new dodge rework, it will make the specialization feel like new. brewmasters and bdks will start this new expansion with a newfound confidence towards the game itself. however the difficulty misting around brewmaster is something that will make the entirety of the playerbase possibly rerolling to it, second-guessing their decision. the pattern of damage intake is difficult to identify and especially for the players who lack the type of self control that is required. self control is what mostly makes people go for an easy class, low self control paired with an easy and forgiving class is the most attractive option for the majority of the playerbase. brewmaster was never a forgiving specialization, now hopefully it will become parallel or identical to the other classes.
I love this style, it is not 40 min talking about every spec what spell can do this or that, just short very informative. Much much appreciated.
Cool to see brew doing well. Hope they buff tanks to bring them closer to eachother, not crush the top ones.
Remember this is not what it will be like on live or anything concrete, just what it looks like currently
Will you do another one closer to release? I really hope so. Keep up the good work :)
@@smnk064 Absolutely! will do one very close to release with more concrete data and near end of the tuning cycle for beta
My man, if you are going to make a tier list video you need to 1) unnecessarily stretch the video to 10 mins 2) have big flashy graphics 3) make wild statements with absolutely zero qualifiers such as ‘things might change’. Awesome vid btw :)
Thank you soo much for the update!!, Brew main here and happy camper with your comments
thanks for update, keep em coming
As a bear main, Bear is down with pally its horrible. The hero talents are Dull and boring if i wanted to be a cat id play feral and if i wanted to do arcane damage id play Boomie. The spec tree is pathetic you have talents like pulverize that are a waste of talent because you will never take maybe on very rare occasions
I was able to test all the tanks by doing solo pulls in M0 and I'm right there with you on where they are ATM. Paladin felt horrible... I feel warrior is super tanky it was nice.. DH sigil change was needed tbh..
I felt the same thing - prot paladin’s surv/dam is undertuned. Bear is good and going into kitty to do damage on Tyran/Raid is interesting. The ST Benefit has to be better than just pressing mangle though. Hopefully blizzard changes that.
I think pala may need a little "niche" tree rework like happen to dk. I feel underwhelming playing prot pala because of how limited your talent build choice is, same build unless you want to play more safer by sacrificing dps/utility for more self sustain but still barely enough as is now to stay alive. Especially for me who doesnt put much of trust in healers in pugs.
For Dh spike and DR uptime is an issue due to stats and little tuning + most of player are way to used to how busted dh is on live right now.
Moonbear is on sitting bench due being forced to play into Beam which isnt that good and self heal from arcane dmg isnt that great, Druid of claw is just too good to pass on combined with how many talents can synergize Thrash and Ursok fury.
Honestly not a fan when Blizz forces you to play talents that are either undertuned or just not as good of a choice.
Anyway thanks for nice vid and hopefully they atleast tune those "underclassmen" soon and sorry for a bunch of writing😀
Considering the history of WoW, it's not uncommon for something to go into a new exp kinda broken and useless, then they fix it or make a small change that makes it a lot better, sometimes even OP.
Think about how monk went into DF and how much better they got once they added the healing orbs.
Paladin have always ended up a solid tank as well for the most part, and usually one of the best carry tanks, so not too worried about them. Might not be great for S1 though, but that is usually the case anyway due to lack of haste. In S2 I expect to see them up there again, if not before.
im hoping to see my beloved brew rise this expac, felt like blizzard had either forgotten we existed or they just didnt give a shit about monk tanks! but this is music to my ears
as warrior main I’ve always felt like prot paladin will always be #1 just amount of utility it offers no matter what position they are in beta or live it’s just odd that class is just OP
And yet paladin on average is just middle of the pack when tuning is done.
Thankfully they gutted double sigil.
i still havent understood how ox stance the new talent works. either i havent understood how it works, or i dont want to accept the fact that it works around 1 single instance of damage being needed to proc it. can you please explain because the tooltip doesnt really say what the accurate margin of increased stagger is after you get the aforementioned damage instance. is it like bounce back or something?
ha, just asked on another video if u have made this video yet! My bad! Great video
Prot Palidan need buff to uptime on Shield of righteous & Word of glory seems bugged and doing tiny healing.
they should just add WOG healing scaling so you can top yourself on crit , i don't know why they added tons of health and didn't bother to look at the mitigation scaling , i know its still in beta but they even announced that they wanna nute down the "top someone with one spell" so im kinda worried if they mean't toping yourself too.
great video as always! Thanks. Do you have a link to current m+ talents in beta?
Cheers
thank you great master, would you test that I found the purifying brew is 70% with Harmony tanlent.
And hope you will make a video part about tank trinkets. Hope you good.
Paladin and DJ is all you need to know
Equinox out to get BrM nerfed early this xpac :'D
LMAO i hope not..
Has the stagger issue been addressed or does it seem like with the new takents its not as bad as people were predicting?
yes the numbers are correct atm
@@Equinoxmonk Appreciate all the videos and key information! You lead me to play brew in S4 and loving it!
Is there less keybind now for BrM?
Yes quite a few less
Brew always top in betas though
which hero tree would you recommend for prot warrior
i prefer mountain thane rn
After the nerf to VDH sigils, BDK is definitely on par to become the VDH of TWW. Unless they severely reduce the amount of stops required in M+ there's no way BDK isn't the meta tank by a hue margin.
BDK has no where close to the amount of CC vdh had. 2 Single target grips, 1 aoe grip on a 1:30 CD that silences for 3, blinding sleet 1 min cd, and asphyxiate ST stun. 3 ST cc's and 2 aoe ccs on long cooldowns with no cdr. Vdh had 7 aoe stops and 1 ST stop. 2 of those aoe stops were 6 second silences (9 with evoker). Also dh gives a 5% magic buff, dk gives nothing. Also the fear skips vdh can do which can by pass truesight. They just genuinely aren't comparable
also most likely wont spec into gorefiends silence since youd have to give up something important so its even less valuable
besides that whas Equinox said...Bdk has the same Problem every season...at some point in high keys they getting gutted from trash. Its hard to say how it will feel in higher keys right now. Also its tooo early. What my experience is so far...that we dont need that much CC in the keys right now. Ppl need to get away from ,,our VDH got all ccs and kicks,,
Wildly bad take lol. Even with sigils nerf VDH just brings so much more utility to grp comp
@Equinoxmonk
Discord info on guides n such is out of date :(
I feel a random guy takes over each season and expac. Why are they so ignorant to see that the mass is willing to lend a hand.
Some spec shines while others just have a bandage solution...
If i had been given the chance to change these specs etc. I would enroll people with exp, knowledge and atleast plays the class/spec.
Do you have a brewmaster discord by chance?
discord.gg/fEWfuqMh
hope no blizz employee sees this list or we're in for some brew nerfs again :(
With the fat nerf they give Vengeance they must be in the bottom of the list now, i hate Blizzard sometimes.
I think they have a chance to be strong they just need to fix up their base kit and unnerf silence sigil to its original form pre double sigils
@@Equinoxmonk i suppose, but imo they should revert that. It was fun to be able to properly pack mobs without beeing ridiculously op. I think they should bring other tanks to that level of utility and fun. Pugging high M+ keys is hell without vengeance.. ive done it for years with Brewmaster and it's painful to wipe a key on one cast going through.
Also, with the buffs to Blood it feels like the next vengeance dh.. so why even nerf vengeance 😅 everyone will play that if the numbers are decent.
@@guillaumelabonte2702 Nah blood dk doesnt have anywhere close to vdh level of control, issue with vdh level of util is that ontop of other classes CC you pmuch just ignore all mob abilities minus unccable ones which isn't good for the game. Having less casts overall and having to rotate kicks AND stops is better than just perma ccing mobs
Git gud 😢
@@Equinoxmonk i personnaly hate to have to watch other people interrupt cooldown. I shouldnt have to track those, it ruins the fun. I dont mind having less casters but i dont want to have to track everyone's every single ability, there is already a lot to think about. Id rather have better control than that personnaly. This way im independant. The game isnt only for premade groups or mythic +30 keys. Ive done some 26 past season withou the need of that.
Tier lists need to be done with, I understand your intention with this video was to put a broad scope on where these specs are at currently are compared to eachother but majority won’t see it like that and will just see this as “oh this is best I must play 1 these 3 specs”
Yea I agree, I just put it out because people ask me for them and I like talking about the current state of things and it also brings light to issues certain specs are facing
why does the perspective of other players matter? a massive number of the wow pop will follow the easiest and most forgiving classes regardless, because this is what the meta orbits around. however the main challenge is to find what is cohesive and consistent across the board. like death knight for example, never high and never low. always in the middle and reliable.
the sole reason equinox is good with brewmaster and is also biased towards it, is because it has a much higher margin of error and lacks the forgiving nature of all the other tank classes. him being good with something that isnt forgiving, means he understands that there is an underlying pattern of intellectual excellence required in order to carry it towards the success that it allows.
brewmaster having a massively different pattern of damage intake makes it automatically better as a tank. the entire past of brewmaster being the most error-full tank, and only now through the double cb, elixir, and ox stance, and the 10% mastery reinforcement, brewmaster has finally achieved being what it should be, something that death knight has been for its entirety.
the historical tier list position of blood death knight being a class A tank is indefinite. you know where brewmaster has been so far? it has been in the second page forever, and that says a lot about its design. now we get a chance to see where the new changes will take us.
and lets not forget, this is not a naguura tier list, its an equinox tier list. for perspective, the liquid guy maximum has made tier lists with the assistance of others but he still failed against echo countless times. i know that this correlation doesnt seem substantial, but it comes under a different perspective with equinox being no1 with brewmaster when its the worst tank across the board. sometimes you have to carve your understanding in a more imposing manner. a tier list from a winner is marginally better than a tier list from a non winner.
radical right? good.
People have been meta slaving since before tier lists, the "tier lists ruined gaming" narrative is way overdone. If you wanna put the blame somewhere you can maybe put it on esports for driving people to be more competitive. Other than that, minmaxing isn't anything new or to be unexpected. The reality is that some classes do better and bring more to the table than others, and as people play they become more and more aware of that regardless of tier lists. I won't bring a survival to my group not because its f tier, i know it doesnt do shit for damage, has less defensives, and weak cc. Tier lists are just an easy scapegoat
@@grenadanotthecountry people who are against tier lists are just self made gatekeeping ivory tower campers who didnt get to pass law school and they chose the second best option which allows them to dictate other people, and that is imposing their dogmatic protocol and overall gatekeeping on others in a video game.
some classes are better than others, and they think tier lists drive the meta instead of the quality of the class itself. ive heard many streamers explicitly say that and it blew my mind. i was like wtf f no tier lists are obviously observations and in no way they dictate what people will prefer to play.
stop making tierlist too early.
mathematically speaking, brewmaster and bdk are in the frontline of tanking hierarchy. brewmaster needed 1 big change towards the right direction and it got it. for blood death knight, the bone charges giving a massive amount of armor and haste can land you in any difficulty - guided of course with the assistance of death strike.
what brewmaster lacked heavily was what death knight always had, an on demand failsafe. now brewmaster can elixir every 15 seconds, then into cb, then to cb again, and then on elixir again, and repeat indefinitely. this is a big deal for the brewmaster design because especially when paired with the massive amount of the new dodge rework, it will make the specialization feel like new.
brewmasters and bdks will start this new expansion with a newfound confidence towards the game itself. however the difficulty misting around brewmaster is something that will make the entirety of the playerbase possibly rerolling to it, second-guessing their decision. the pattern of damage intake is difficult to identify and especially for the players who lack the type of self control that is required.
self control is what mostly makes people go for an easy class, low self control paired with an easy and forgiving class is the most attractive option for the majority of the playerbase. brewmaster was never a forgiving specialization, now hopefully it will become parallel or identical to the other classes.
Y makes no sense talking about tierlist now 😂 specially when most of the ppl who watch this dont even mytic raid or pushing keys to 3200+
Tier lists are BS
Bro use your brain come on now