Diablo 4 - Everything That Is WRONG With Rogue
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 22 июл 2024
- #Diablo4 #Season4 #Boss #Guide #wudijo
These are all the issues I see currently with the Rogue Class!
Music On Spotify: open.spotify.com/artist/31zZz...
Find all my builds on my Discord: / discord
My Diablo 4 Playlist: • Diablo IV
Maxroll's Diablo 4 Branch: maxroll.gg/d4/news/diablo-4-g...
-----------
Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
01:38 Melee Is Dead
15:06 Few Defensive Choices
21:15 Reliance on CC
25:26 Reliance on Caltrops
30:53 Dual Core Builds Nerfed
37:51 Paragon Boards Variety
40:41 Ultimate Skills
47:39 Rogue Uniques
52:29 Summary
-----------
Stream: / wudijo
Discord: / discord
Path of Exile Channel: / @wudijo_poe
Twitter: / wudijo
Maxroll Website: maxroll.gg/
Maxroll Discord: / discord
Business Enquiries: wudijo@dulcedo.com
I cover Diablo 3 & Diablo 4, but also other ARPGs like Diablo 2, Last Epoch & more. For Path of Exile content, visit my 2nd Channel "wudijo PoE". Here you can find game and build guides, highlights, clips from my streams, memes and more! Hope you enjoy my content :)
If you want to support me, any of the following steps are very much appreciated:
1. Subscribe to my RUclips/Follow on Twitch & Twitter
2. Become a channel Member by clicking the "Join" button or this link (and get unique perks!):
/ @wudijo
3. Become a Twitch Subscriber (or use your monthly free Twitch Prime if you are an Amazon Prime user)
4. Donate with PayPal: streamelements.com/wudijo/tip
5. Like/comment/share my stuff!
6. Give me feedback how to improve! 
Игры
Please don't suggest nerfing dark shroud - it provides an appropriate level of endgame damage reduction (consider that two other classes have abilities that make them entirely immune to damage).
The answer is to provide other options (emphasising additional options for melee builds) for damage reduction
Can we agree on "fix things, buff classes and stop nerfing" please?
some things need nerfing, always.@@user-ry6xb1db7g
dark shroud is overtuned and its obvious
@@TonyTheTerrible rogue is unplayable without it though so what else are we to use after its nerfed
@@sneaky5141 it needs to be on more consistently while also not reaching 60% dr
rogue specialisation needs a rework. no room for trap or agility focused builds. if you want to play a psn trap build then u just feel bad not taking advantage of the 3 choices.
Combo points should apply to the class innately, too much of the rogue's kit is built around it for it to be anything other than mandatory, then here are some suggestions for a specialisation rework:
1) your maximum number of combo points is now 6.
2) imbuement skills now apply passively as an aura when present on your skill bar, and apply to all imbueable skills cast at 75% potency.
3) your cutthroat skills deal increased multiplicative damage equal to 20% of your damage with close modifier total. You gain 3 dark shrouds every 2 seconds.
@@scoliosisking6143 But then they wouldn't have ideas for future 'content'
@@scoliosisking6143 blizzard needs to hire this guy RIGHT NOW
Rogue in general needs rework
My big issue with my rogue skills is that I can't really play shadow skills at end game. I just want a screen full of people explosions and I don't think that's too much to ask for.
My actual #1 problem I have, which you didn't talk about at all is visual impact of our skills. Outside of having an imbuement you can't even tell what skills we are using they all look looks little white hits. Compare to tornado barb, a minion necro, a frozen orb sorc, or a bear druid. It's OBVIOUS what they class is doing and it looks GREAT. The basic and core skills on rogue are all the same little white line on the screen. They're all the same... And ugly...
Rogue is supposed to support high risk, high reward gameplay. It should be THE class to deal the most amount of damage, but sacrifice a bit of reliable survivability as a result. But what is the point of playing rogues when barbarians not only have so much survivability that they are almost invincible, but they also smoke rogues in terms of damage and can break out of CC whenever they want? Not only that, barbarians do their damage instantly while rogues have to: wait 1.5 seconds for twisting blades to return to you, wait 1.5 seconds for your traps to arm, wait 6 seconds for your shadow imbue to deal bonus damage, wait for your poison imbue to tick down before your enemies die, wait for cold imbue to... wait, cold imbue doesn't provide you with any bonus damage. Why is everything on the Rogue so delayed?
And while we are on the topic of twisting blades, melee tempers are so useless. Twisting blades return to you slightly sooner? Really? No extra damage but you just get your damage off a fraction of a second sooner? And what about flurry? it is still useless and the temper makes it even more of a joke. Just an increase in size? And the other melee basics just get more duration? While ranges skill tempers give you a chance for it to deal double damage?
And while I am at it, I will just list off a few other things wrong with rogues. They have useless passives such as: DoT resistance, heal while in stealth, imbues gets slightly more crit chance, moving 12 meters for your next non-basic attack to deal slightly more damage (more delay), you have to spend 100 energy to just get slightly more lucky hit (even more delay), and some very small healing on lucky hit... but also on critical hit on top of that... but also on top of that has a 15% chance to fail... Also: shadow clones don't make use of your aspects which makes it useless, everything about flurry and basic melee attacks are useless, caltrops making you jump is super annoying and slow (delay on top of delay), and twisting blades has a modifier that decreases cooldowns by just 0.1 seconds for each enemy it passes through which is useless and makes rogue gameplay more slow (yep, you guessed it, delay to infinity and beyond) and you need it to pass through 20 ENEMIES in order to get the max cooldown reduction of a WHOLE 2 SECONDS WOW. And whose bright idea was it to bundle vulnerable damage and critical damage tempers with useless cutthroat and marksman tempers?
At this point, buffing rogues won't be enough. They need an ENTIRE FREAKING REWORK.
The only thing I like about caltrops is the jump. I don't use them anymore, but they're great as a form of evade.
You can't expect more from bliz devs. They only copy paste from other games
You are absolutely 100% correct, I was a high damage Sorc, Necromancer, Druid, all killed instantly by Barbs, all their skills take time to activate while Barbs are instant. Barbarian class as a whole needs a huge nerf to bring it online with everyone else, IMO no character should "one shot" any end game boss that tells me it's unbalanced and teetering on being a "mobile" game then, just silly
@@ScottPeterson-kc9uo really? other classes are F Dog S and u want barb on that same lvl? pls no thnx
@jef6438 just because you like that character doesn't mean it's not put of balance with the rest, sorry to break that to ya
Having to stun bosses to deal damage as rogue is actually a fun mechanic and fits rogue as a class, it's just that we should be able to stun bosses with a bit more ease on higher pit levels. It's akin to games like Sekiro where you have to break your enemies posture in order to deal a killing blow to them and basically doing chip damage before that. It adds another layer to the game by adding another way to approach combat.
I generally agree, the problem just comes when people compare one class to the other ones. The fact that rogue needs to do this to damage the boss, but barb for example doesn't, makes a sizable part of the playerbase ask themselves why they have to work so much harder for the same (or worse) results. And it matters, for instance for farming pit materials, if you can clear the runs faster you will get more mats and more masterworking attempts, and improve your character faster. Ultimately it's a game and you should play however is fun for you, but I can definitely empathize with people who like a certain class fantasy or playstyle and don't want to feel punished for playing their class by being weak and slow relative to the others
Yeah it's cool to have a "nuke" type of play style for bosses when they are staggered. Rogues can also force the first three staggers in like 3 seconds the issue is the fourth, fifth etc. But also this play style shouldn't exist for ALL rogue builds
It would have been OK if we had enough damage to nuke the boss in a single stagger phase (with a proper, non specialized build). But we don't, so this is absolutely not OK.
Please don't compare diablo to my beloved sekiro... there is no skill expression in diablo. People just want efficiency and to keep nerfing challenging content. If we are going to blast then don't punish rogue by having its damage tied to conditional modifiers and utility skills.
@@CombinE54 Rogue would then be stronger than any other class by a factor of 10. It's easier for rogue to stun the boss 2 or 3 times than for other classes to kill the boss. The problem is getting out 4th and 5th stun. Rogue is top of the ladder anyway so what is there that is not "ok"?
Very good feedback all around. I fell for the noob trap which is Shadow Clone :( would be cool if they somehow manage to fix that skill.
Wudijo- I put together the barrage rogue build and it has the No Witness board in it but not pathed thru the legendary node. Should I swap out that board with another board ?
Overall I really like the S4. However my biggest "issue" is that the Top Build meta almost always revolves around finding bugged skills \ passives and not around finding cool but not bugged interactions. So Instead of theory crafting players just need to try all passives and actives one by one, then find the bugged ones and abuse those.
The biggest problem imo with melee rogues is puncture. The skill nearly every rogue will use outside of heartseeker builds.
It's an entirely over used skill... because blizzard mistakenly made it that way.
It's the go-to source of early/late game vulnerability, it is the only rogue basic with an aspect that can apply a DoT.
Finally It's absolutely mandatory for any melee build to take advantage close quarters combat, which is currently the only "melee" passive worth using since victimize is better suited for heartseeker and momentum is useless.
If pestilent points allowed every cutthroat basic to employ poison rather than puncture, that'd be a good start. Allowing blade shift to cause vulnerability for 3 seconds to an enemy if you walk through them, or something similar to that nature, would be a huge improvement. Making invigorating strike give you a small barrier after 3-4 hits would be incredible.
The basic attack changes alone would improve variety and effectiveness of playstyles.
I also think twisting blades and flurry both need new aspects or uniques that will change their mechanics. But basic attacks really should take priority.
Ya know start from the bottom and work your way up.
Not to mention that in the current state of the game having absolutely no range on your core skills as a melee is not viable. For enemies like fly swarms you have nothing at all to deal with them if you are purely melee. Puncture just allows you to clear out a lot of the trash at a small distance before you engage for that big hit with your core skill, without getting overwhelmed first.
Now people calling for heartseeker nerf lol I am sick of combo points and puncture
Hi there! I just discovered your channel a few days ago by recommandation of a friend and since then I achieved more progress then ever before, thanks for that. At the moment I play your barrage build and super happy with it. But I´m curious whats your opinon about a ranged - poison + cold imbument - build or does this make no sense?
The fallacy that "rogues are in a relatively good spot" is precisely the reason why these problems still exist. Just because they've always accidentally had at least one overpowered build (twisting blades, overlapping with tibault's will combo points shenanigans, followed by victimize double-dipping) has hidden the fact that more of the rogue's kit has been useless or broken since launch than any other class. But the existence of those one or two overperforming builds at any given point has meant the class as a whole hasn't got enough attention for these issues to be addressed.
man most classes are in the same spot. if necros had their bugs fixed they'd be b tier.
@@jasonlucia6682 Exactly. Its all of them. People crying about necro fail to realize they are 4/5 without the holy bolt elixer bug on thier strongest build. Barb is consistently the only class that can have multiple top end builds and are always #1 endgame. This was my first season playing rogue and I absolutely LOVE the heartseeker build. If they say it is a bug for victimize then "fix it" all those builds will be F tier again. Blizzard refuses to bring up bottom skills. They seem to only want 1 build for each class to do well and then the community can sneak out one or two others that do well. Druid is absolute cheeks this season. Necros are just above them with a bugged elixer. Sorcs have their full immunity back after it was "nerfed out" and are sitting top with Barbs, who are obviously #1 again. Rogues are overall the closest to balanced BUT that is if you ignore all their melee stuff. The only melee build that is strong now is the uber andarials poison build. Each class needs to have multiple builds that can do all content with the min max build needing all the ubers just above them.
I would say sorc and druid are worse off. IMO all 3 need help. The basic problem is just not enough multiplicitive damage scaling, or only a single way to do it which means you're effectively forced into that build to do anything endgame. At least heartseeker can push the put and is fun to play. In contrast you have the best pit sorc in the world saying he hates how the build plays, and recommends no one who actually wants to have fun with the game NOT play it cause it's so frustrating.
Every single good rogue build since launch is based around bug. But also im pretty sure that's been the case for every class in the game since launch lmao.. gg blizzard
@@Sins13 Heartseeker needs to be fixed because it's 1 button gameplay.
What does have to do with buffing the barb some more?
Does dr on timults will work because i heard dr on pit bosses doesn't work?
i think its crazy that +all core skills is the rarest affix on gloves.
all the +all ranks should be common on every item that drops with it
I think its bizarre that the rogue has no viable melee basic attack build but sorc does 😂
Has there been any word from the Dev to fix Rapid Fire.... again? Don't hear any content creators talking about the new RF bug after they "fixed" it recently. RF is basically useless outside of boss killing and even then it clunky.
I changed from RF to Heartseeker because of that, it was impossible to play outside the bosses, and even harder because I play on console so we don't have a proper way to aim rather than turn the character to the direction you want to shoot and hopely it would hit, most of the time it would shoot at an enemy far in the back rather than the one right on my face, sometimes even just firing above those where too close.
Which one? they fixed the bug that caused it to spray randomly and not hit where you clicked if thats the one your talking about
@@petronettoheartseeker rogue Slaps !❤
@@Dravanis The new bug happened after they fix that. It is near impossible to shoot enemies standing on top of you and the small spread that use to occur when shooting is gone. This means that the build is basically 'F' tier for clearing trash, when it use to be decent.
@@sthele6096 ah. I always had that issue even before both bugs, the only way i could solve it was to put my mouse over my character in a specific way to hit at my feet but its extremely specific in a horrendous manner.
bro has a personal army of rogues
The boss dmg stuff is the same problem some sorc builds have. Can only damage a boss when staggered. I've been complaining about that since launch. Stagger mechanic is pretty cool but its terribly bad when you can't do any non staggered damage.
anyone know how to get the transmog he has?
I really want to play Ultimate builds, invest in the skill, cd, damage to ultimate and all that stuff. But right now they fall flat lategame damage wise... So many cool looking ultimates become support skills or straight up useless :(
Good insights, however -- you can definitely use victimize with barrage just fine. Even though the lucky hit chance is lower, you have to remember that you are getting multiple chances to hit with it that can all cause it to pop in the same time frame.
Moreover, since the aspects add arrows, and hitting vulnerable also boost barrage, and then it can also apply further vulnerables to the enemies it is branching to -- it cause entire maps to victimize pop, which makes it particularly good for shadow imbue shotgunning.
Have been using the build to great effect this season.
I have mained melee rogue from beginning to end. I've played all the other classes but the melee rogue is where I hang my hat. I appreciate this video so much and I hope they see the feedback. I felt the Section on how bad it feels when a boss is not currently staggered is a high point for them to address. Nothing feels worse than getting boxed out of an area by the shadow boss in the pit right after you stagger and knowing you just lost 90% of your damage opportunity for the next 2 minutes.
Please do this for every class.
I agree it would be cool to have an in depth character assessment from Wudi.
I think it's important to do! Even though Barb is great for instance, the builds are still incredibly constrained. 3x shout meta is still going strong for instance. Has anyone ever done death blow or kick successfully? Like why are there so many core skills in every single class no one ever uses? Why does every sorc build need like 5 uniques with perfect GAs to even almost kind of do okay?
Blizz needs to get the build power grouped together a lot tighter. Like why does my firewall do 500k damage over 8 seconds but my barb cleaves bash for like 30 million damage 4 times a second? So like a firewall does 62.5 thousand DPS and bash does 120 million. Very balanced.
@@Weaver_Games as a sorc enjoyer, i am 100% okay with being glass but where the heck is our cannon?
an interesting take overall. a few opinions on it for myself (I don't push as high. so grain of salt needed)
1. melee rogues are my favorite rogues, flat out. both flurry, twisting blades, and death trap all have solid ideas behind them. one way to make them, and also the melee builders a bit more viable, is to adjust the close quarters and/or momentum passives to break if you use marksman skills, and take that opportunity to enhance them specifically for something like cuthroat skills. Then do one of 2 thigns to blade shift. Either make it 8 seconds, or let the durations of multiple casts add up to double/tripple duration. It would let you combo point generate twisting blades easier/flurry easier (or just use them directly), without losing the phasing buff that lets you pass.
2. defensives - this one is kind of difficult. Since any defensive you give will be used on everyone. Take barb/sorc for example, they also use the same defensive skills in nearly all of their builds. D4 by design essentially has 1 builder/spender (or just one spender if you generate enough resource), 1 mobility skill, 2-3 defensives and maybe an ultimate. Itemization focuses usually quite heavily into the spender of the build, essentially keeping you outside multiple different avenues with any given build. So dark shroud being a defensive skill, and the only realistic one we have. Will always be used as one of them. Any additional ones we add would then be taken by other builds as well on a, which one is stronger basis. The only way I can see a potential differentiation, is making one that is specific to only using melee skills. similar to how the key passive above is. that way ranged builds can't abuse it by being a ranged player in melee range. Otherwise it'd just remove dark shroud in favor of the other, or on builds like heartseeker you'd take that extra defensive instead of concealment. Their isn't many ways to address this that may cause more issues later. And so much of the damage intake we have is at range, or magical that you'd need flat dr, or something that gives resistances.
3. reliant on cc - I'm actually ok with the cc reliance, odly enough. It doubles as a defensive and an offensive at the same time which is nice. I do however think they should give rogue the ability to have increased stagger rates on bosses as a result.
4. caltrops - i'm also ok with caltrops though I would like the animation/jump to be faster. that part feels a little clunky. Capping the max damage and letting it last for a moment when they break out would be nice. That said If they go that route, it would need to build up a little faster. Maybe even add a preface in the text that is max effect against staggered targets. Kind of double down on the stagger/stun bosses for a burst phase/window. Where you play out the bosses dance until stagger, and then hard nuke during that stagger phase, and increase the stagger of the boss by . . 1 second? (to offset it's animation time being lost from attacks). I'm ok with the cc/stagger reliance on bosses, so long as we have solid avenues to use it. (cap it at like 20% or something, still a lot but not always a force take, and not needed for speed runs/faster bosses.
5. dual core builds - this will be very difficult purely from a game design perspective. How would you get enough powers to make 2 core skills both solid, without making either of those 2 core skills very strong in isolation. An AoE with flurry and ST with rapid fire was mentioned and that is possibly one ya. one core for AoE and one core for ST. Conceptually it's something I would like, but it's very hard to pull off. If you go with 2 core skills, then a generator for 3. now you add in shadow step for a required 4. and likely dark shroud making 5. plus all of the passives needed to get each of them online. Feels hard to do that kind of a setup without a unique specifically strengthening the 2 skills while in tandem. e.g. after flurry your next rapid fire deals x more damage or something like that.
6. paragon boards - please for the love of god don't make these more complicated than they already are. If it's simply buffing unused nodes that's fine. Especially trap and ultimate skill nodes across the board. As trap and ultimate playstyles for most classes in the game are pretty limited. A couple select ultimates may need reigned in to compensate buffing them all across the board. but would be nice.
7. ultimates - Though I'm already an advocate that ultimate cd's need to be slashed across the board. or at the very least have skills within the kit to make using them ever elite pack or so, a reasonable option. My issue with ultimates was rarely their damage or strength. and more that the games design would require you to have access to them much more frequently. Barb has 2 ultimates it plays around and gets good cdr for both of them innately, without needing to stack ways to get cdr on it. Rogue had one with twisting blades cdr paired with death trap, but that was summarily taken out back and shot in the head.
Hi Wudjo, thank you doing this. Quick question - for heartseeker rogue - dual daggers or dual swords?
the dual swords is slightly more dmg. its negligable. dual daggers is for faster animations of your other skills. faster animations>get to doing damage faster/not animation locked and die. choice is yours
For heartseaker, anything that rolled Max on double vulnerable 🎉
I've been trying this rain of arrows build with percision. I have Flickerstep boots and the amulet. Its fun but idk how high I can push
Rogues basic skills have some nice utilities... phasing and 20 MS from blade shift, lucky chance from invigorating strike, crit damage and AS from heartseeker, vuln from puncture. Its all a matter of playstyle and personal preference. For example, in maxrolls Poison Barrage uber version i chose blade shift instead of shadow step for running pits and maintaining CQC up with 3 charge metamorphosis for unstopable.
What I also always thought was weird is that the Marksman Glyph gives you 10% damage reduction. Why? Wouldnt that conceptually be way more useful for the Melee builds that put themselves in harms way? Shouldnt they be more tanky by default?
With the new tempers being what they are, couldn’t shadow close just sit on top of you, on a .25 sec animation delay, and give you,
“80% chance to cast skills twice”
It’ll look like the shadow is slightly lagged behind your animation to look like it’s using the skills but you’d get 100% of your powers and damage… boom fixed to work as I assume it was designed.
all I want to say is thank you wudijo, this had to be adressed, everything your saying here is 100% right and they need to fix our beloved rogue. rogue is in a very sad state.
You're missing one up in S/A tier there, Victimize Poison Puncture is a thing. Honestly surprised so many people have overlooked it.
Thank you.
shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Got planner to link? Only found 1 with PS
I think Precision can be good now outside combo points because of the new tempering that allows ranged skills to shoot twice, therefore adding 2 stacks of Precision with each cast
Also i was under the impression that each individual arrow of rapid fire has its own chance to lucky hit, hence why the chance is much lower than pen shot or hearthseeker which shoot a single arrow, sometimes i can see 2 procs of Victimize from the same cast of rapid fire (without the temper)
Precision Imbuement (and other imbue related effects) seem really good now since you can get +imbue charges on rings
Yep, dual core builds are not viable right now. Even with three Uber uniques (tyrael might, doombringer and harlequin crest) you are mediocre at best compared to meta single core focus. Which is a bummer, I really liked your rapid fire flurry build.
You could technically put the chance to cast double on both your ranged weapon + dual wield melee weapons and be able to specialize in 2 skills just fine
I've actually been forgetting that there's an event going on right now. I noticed there's more loot goblins around but they're nothing extraordinary.
Very good review of the current state of rogue sir. As someone who plays rogue exclusively I agree with and feel all the shortcomings you have pointed out. Hopefully Blizzard hears you
usually Dodge is the most important feature of a Rogue, a synergy with Dex stat. Barbarians can have armor, mages a shield, druids a lifeleech, necros lifesteal, ... they need to really make it so rogues have a dodge/evasion chance to survive.
I'd really like someone to revamp the build I was using in season 1. Twisting blades, poison, shadow clone. It did shitload of damage and was crazy and PVP. I'd love to play it again but I'm really bad at class building shit and extremely bad at Paragon board. It was mainly using a lot of vulnerable which is just kind of obsolete now so I have no idea what I'd even perk into half armor
There’s a poison furry build using the close quarters key passive by xarrio. He’s doing 150-200mil plus poison ticks.
I mean let's Nerf victimize let's Nerf all of the range abilities to pump up the melee abilities and let's get rid of the number one survivability for the Rogue
Rogue is supposed to be nuke burst glass cannon class. I am fine with it but those bursts should trigger more often on high level bosses. One thing I am missing on ranged builds is ability to run and shoot, strafe, and retreat and shoot. PoE2 mercenary trailer demonstrates it. Heartseeker with bugs fixed would still work if that was implenented, should work with controller and wasd controls.
as a test i tempered shadow clone damage on 3 weapons and shadow clone duration on 2 rings and you can keep the shadow clone up 100% of the time BUT the damage tempers do not scale at all, i have 701 shadowclone damage and it only hits for like 10k-20k max, they should just make it get 100% of stats like minions...its technically a pet or summon so it should get that 100% stat buff then it would easily be stronger than necro minions
I have 3 rogues at level 100, one is running Andriel's psn melee, one is running rapid fire, and the other heart seeker. They are all fun to play and although HS is a few tiers above my other two builds for pushing pit I am very happy with where rogue is right now.... that being said I wish there was a better Melee version for twisting blades cause I LOVE that skill... I agree with the passive revamp, bring the under-used key passives UP to where victimize is, along with increasing the LHC of some of the others skills to better synergize with it... I tried this using Victimize and my psn build stacking 1600% vuln while running puncture and it didn't do to bad! I still had 60% LHC and was able to proc the Victimize passive but it wasn't as effective as playing ranged. I really don't want to see dark shroud nerfed... they just need need to add another 1-2 ways to maintain it better in melee situations.
Azurewrath becoming a generic 1-H instead of Barb only actually helped add some life to cold imbue rogues. if you put enough investment into Gamble and Chill/Freeze you can run around basically freezing everything all the time. even elites as a twisting blades build and then you pair it with Poison Imbue for bossing and mobing just is never an issue.
That being said I would enjoy seeing you push the limits of less conventional builds instead of the meta.
I am about to speed level a rogue today but want to try pen shot is there a good guide anyone could suggest please ?
There is a guide for penshot on maxroll.
@@sneakytails1724thank you
Dark Shourd is a bless , its hard to get it to +8 so if anyone succes he should be rewarded with that great defense.
Rouges can be happy to have that defense + Mobility ---> Every Druid would love to have that.
Also the CC and Stagger is kinda nice Gameplay and is a lot fun.
Agree on Caltroops maybe some Legendary effevt for it would be nice.
Dude, love your content, still I have to disagree with the solutions suggested to ''fix'' melee by nerfing DS. Yes, its good and like you mentioned it makes high end game content even possible right now. To make melee more viable I would suggest to buff Sturdy in a way that it would benefit more to melee builds, lets say passive 7% to all, but 20% to melee, at level 3. Other than that a lot of good points. Rogue is suffering for some variety right now, think other classes are too, but we are just at that point where you never have at least 1 top build of each melee and range in a single season.
Playing mainly barb used to Temper with 1 in 4 chance (25%) or 1 in 3 (33,3%) still getting cancer bricking items (15 times in a row wrong Stat) then trying the rogue, enjoying the class but seeing the Temper 1 in 5 (20%), I immediately logged off and played barb again with a huge confusion why they would do that
The biggest issue I see with this iteration of D4 is that the skill is not the damage. For the most part anyways. They need to make the skills do the most damage, and the other portion the enhancement. Hardly any cores skills are being focused on. No builds based around any mastery skills (Barb, Sorc). Let's not forget about the 20 or so ultimate skills that don't get used. Everything seems to be based around using a skill to enhance the damage from something else. Be it an item, apsect, or temper. Because of this issue, it's easier to make a build with a basic skill, as opposed to a skill that costs resource or has a long CD. Need to put focus back on the skills doing the main damage.
they overtuned basic skills to the point that that's all top classes use now. They'll probably swing around next season and focus on more core skills.
Mastery skills are very boring and very unviable. They need to be completely changed
basic and core skills are the only skills worth building around, even ultimates are useless
yeah they should completely rework the skills that aren't in any builds.
They didn't overvalued basic skills at launch and through first 2 seasons. People then complained not being able to use basic skills for endgame. Now you have it, but still people like you never satisfy@Three60Mafia
I am so tired of Bash, a basic skill, which crits for 300million damage. Why can basic skills crit for so much damage? Meanwhile, my Double Swing, a Core skill, with Ring of the Starless Skies equipped, crits for about 1.5million. Nice balance, Blizzard. F*&%ing clowns!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah this is pretty much my concern, I love the rogue at launch it was my favorite character and only character I really wanted to play. But I haven't played the rogue since. There's so many crazy cool builds that just do fun stuff and they look fantastical. And then there's just the road that just shoots an arrow or stab something and jumps around. And I really loved flurry but it's kind of weak unless you match it with other skills but I really love twisting blades and poison build I ran during launch but they've just kind of nerfed it after season 1 and since multiple times where it just feels sad. It's just doesn't seem like there's that much variation with the rogue compared to every single other class and it looks like there could be but they're just weak and they're slowly buffing those different skills but they're still kind of just useless cuz they can't pair well with other things. Like cow drops now are being used way more where the last four seasons or whatever and launch it was just completely useless. I really hope they do some TLC with the rogue like they have the other classes because all the other classes season 4 have gotten a lot of love and the road kind of just got pushed into a corner with a dunce camp
Your best video yet. You forgot imbuements been bad but I forgive you.
In terms of power, I think people should be thinking more about balancing other classes down to the weaker c rank spec than buffing everyone to an S rank. For this season I am actually looking for weaker specs to play just to keep the game from getting boring. Now for rogue, For me the main issue with rogue is there isn't much variance in how the class is played. I played twisting blades trap (just do do more)during season 1 and it was fun. I'd jsut never play that class again because there is really no difference in how the class is played between the specs. To me overall the class just needs to do more as it's like a 1 trick pony and then gets boring.
imagine if your shadow clone did actually copy you 1 for 1 with 80% of your damage and all your powers… just imagine fighting a tier 100+ pit boss that you’re typically able to kill in maybe 2 stuns with victimize heartseeker, but now ur shadow clone ALSO procs victimize… it would be the most OP thing ever
Most op thing ever? Have you seen necro, barb and sorc clear 140+?
Bosses in 140 have more than 10x more hp than a tier 100 boss.
I don't think nefing dark shroud is the answer, but I do agree they need a more stable way of proccing umbrous. Maybe removing the crit and marksman requirements and reducing the DR per shroud?
Every word he said I agree with. Rogue is fun, but a mess. I actually really like the direction the devs have them in, but yeah, they need work
Our ultimate skills are just awful. There's zero point in taking them unless you want to build around them. Shouldn't an ultimate skill be worthwhile even without building your itemization or skills around it? Like in D3 vengeance was just great and you didn't need to invest item slots into it.
Like why are the cooldowns so long? No one wants a skill on their skill bar that takes a minute to come back.
Like imagine instead of running shadow step and dash, if it was a reasonable decision to pick an ultimate instead of TWO mobility skills. Like get I love mobility, but when you would Rather pick a mobility skill with one point in it over an ultimate it's kinda... Well it sucks...
TLDR rogues have to jump thru hoops to do damage like barbs just do.
Do Druid next!!
I have a grasp of shadow that’s plus 6 to core. I master worked it to 9. Shako with a scoundrel kiss that’s at 6 to rapid fire. Rapid fire is in the 20’s.
The problem with Diablo is every season tends to incline to 1 or 2 builds on each class that takes over we need more build diversity and what i mean by that is we should be able to take any class and make the build that we want op not just the most broken one that is for that season or any season if we want to make a trap build we should be able to make it op if we want a flurry build we should be able to make that op we are just locked into what ever is the most powerful this is where poe shines over Diablo they have whatever build you want to make you can make it op
Need more skills / aspects for build diversity, or fix the existing ones to have some synergy / better balance
yeah build diversity is basically non-existent in this game unfortunately. Each season there is one or two viable builds on each class to play, with the variety coming in small optimizations within those builds. Which I do find interesting and fun to explore, but it would be nice if 80% of damaging skills on each class weren't useless
This is a blizzard-wide curse, not just specific to D4. Having raided in WoW for over 15 years, every patch always has a subset of specs that outclass every other option by a sizeable margin, making them practically required for endgame serious players. This was also true in D3, where every Season one class got the big hammer while the rest of them get a wooden dagger.
For whatever reason Blizz is just allergic to the idea of letting multiple build archetypes per class being powerful
@@nintandao64 👏🏽 you couldn’t have said it better why we the people need to switch to a build that we don’t want to just to do end game content we should be able to pick what we want to and make ourselves powerful equally to other classes we are locked in to the broken classes witch is just crazy to me they need to do a lot of major balancing or buff everyone to equal then start nerfing 🤷🏽♂️
Hear me out here... boss stagger, what if it was a skill based mechanic, like how in some games you have to hit the monsters soft spot to stagger it. Tomb lord for instance, filling a bar spawns 4 chains, you have to hit the chains to stagger the boss.
Rapid fire build still feels terrible after the hotfix. If you get super aggressive enemies you literally can’t hit them if they get close 😂. Had to switch to heartseeker build.
Totally agree
I’d take rapid fire over a bugged build double dipped victimized if that was fixed you wouldn’t have a choice
@@Vigilance779 ok? I clearly don’t want to use heartseeker, but rapid is trash at the moment 🤷.
There was a Shadow Nerf for Split? From 15x% to 10x% anyone notice or i wasnt read….
After rolling for most of the season with Heartseeker, I've tried leveling a penetrating shot rogue and it's just HORRIBLE to play. Penetrating shot feels absolutely terrible to use unless the mob density is so high you literally can't see the ground. With Heartseeker, it's enough to be generally turned toward the enemy (it has like 90 degree angle of autoaim), shoot a couple shots, everything is dead, move on. With Penetrating shot you not only have to hit an enemy with extremely thin skillshot, you also need to have all the mobs lined up so the aspect can fire the side arrows.... so if there's just a few mobs on the screen, each coming from different direction, good effin luck running around in a circle till you group them up to shoot them, or shoot them one at the effin time.
Wish they gave rogues a new aspect that would at least make a shadow clone on each side of you that would shoot Penetrating Shot too, to kind of triple the width (Last Epoch does it with Puncture skill and it feels so much better to hit a 3-4cm strike of a screen than a literal single line)... or just something that can increase the radius of explosions (especially of Victimize explosions).
One of the things I hate most in D4 is how CC works in bosses (or don't) for me makes no sense to have CC's if bosses are immune to it
Andriel Visage poison lucky CC dmg builds feels good. Puntcure Flurry. Its considered a melee build i guess
Ty for this bro just made a rogue 👍
Druid needs tons of help too and it feels the most weak too that or sorc 😊
The crit requirement plus Lucky Hit is too much. That's what really hurt siphoning strikes
A great summary, Wudi!
One thing I'd add to the Rouge discussion: 2 out of 3 ranged skills are better used in melee range than in ranged. That's something I'd love to see addressed in a similar way they addressed FOrbs this season.
For next season I wish for a good buff to traps and grenades, to maybe make flurry/grenades builds viable.
Survivng damage in a game built around doing damage is integral.
(A) Dodge and take no damage
(B) Damage reduction
(C) Have more life
If a class inherently has less options for increasing its life and gaining damage reduction, then its option is dodging.
Math is our friend
Class specific Uniques being trash isn't just a Rogue problem. Even before season 4 (which has rendered almost all unique items useless at this point) most of the top metas would not use class specific Unique items. Given how powerful Blizzard has made legendary items with the tempering and tuned aspect codex systems, they will likely have to make a similary overhaul to their Unique items to make them relevant again.
On a side note, as Rogue main, it is so frustrating how close Grasp of Shadow is to being an elite item. The affixes of dex, attack speed, and ranks to core skills is freaking ideal. But that stupid shadow clone ability just kills the utility completely.
Awesome video ty i learned a lot
Please don't suggest nerfs to anything. Blizzard always responds in worst way possible if they decide to listen and it's always detrimental to rogues. We should suggests buffs only instead so we get more options and more build possibilities each season that are in S tier, or A tier (not lower).
I'm sick and tired of Blizzard nerfing this class, meanwhile Barbs continue to be top dog (both defensively and in dps) every single season for less effort.
Legendary items have 3 affixes, 2 tempers and a power. That's 6. Uniques have 4 affixes and a power. That's 5. They need to add one useful affix to each uniqe imo
As a new p[layer to Diablo. I think Rogue is still by far weak. But asking for a nerf in areas on the Rogue is not good. Especially when coming into the Season no one had intention or playing it and it wasn't even near (Still isn't) near Necro and Barb in damage. Coming from a community that nerfed its game into the ground, how about asking for buffs to keep up with other classes or rather a rework of the Rogue class. But I see that this class is using a Basic skill as intended and also CC's with the best of them and it annoys ppl bc its too simple I guess. A rework is best here as the Rogue could use better uniques and ultimate skills. But if some just choose not to use those skills and still become strong then so be it. I would highly push away from nerfing anything with POE coming out and you don't want to push away your community bc you killed off a class. But what do I know I only saw the Division go down hill.
I think it's normal for unique items to lose relevance in the endgame over time, given that there are more and more of them every season. But of course, when there are two good unique items, and one of them is uber unique - it's not good
I hate how the scoundrels kiss doesnt work good with a controller, i was so excited to run it but was quickly disappointed
Aiming anything with controller is ass lol, that's not new
Thanks for sharing this awesome content!
I miss death trap twisting blades 😂
There is absolutely no reason we shouldn't be able to temper unqiue items. Even with tempers most would still be outclassed by legendary affixes and normal bows.
Please cover druid wudijo 🎉
do sorc next!
If they nerf the dark shroud feel free to play another class or just quit if you don't wanna play other classes. Rogue was the most fun and now is easily the most frustrating class to play in late game. I had to change 3 builds this season and neither was particularly good vs bosses and since I don't wanna play the bugged heartseeker build, I just stopped playing. I can't even farm the pit because I blast every trash mob and when I get to the boss, I have to struggle every time with 1 shot mechanics and deal my damage during the stagger window. If I miss the stagger window 3 times, I can just quit since the 4th will be the hardest to get and the last one also.
I agree with pretty much everything, but feel like he has a bias towards melee rogues. Personally I like the caltrops jump back, it helps keep range and is another skill that can be used for repositioning if used properly. It really is meant for ranged builds and I wouldn't use it with a melee build. But, I do agree, the dmg buff should be capped, it shouldn't be mandatory to use.
Anyone else notice most powerful passives went cqc, precision, victimize. Hoping they are just going along and exposure will get a huge buff next season.
WE need better or stronger ults
traps lack excitement.. you have grenades.. (but no actual real good grenade build).. pois trap.. meh.. it works fine.. but nothing to scale it up dmg wise.. caltrops..but the agility can be a negative.. for example those helltide circle things u can accidently hop out of em.. and you need to temper to increase their size or use the snare glyph (which is useless overall).. miss Assassin/DH traps.. sentry style.. or death traps.. and how come no fire for Rogue?.. sad that AZUREWRATH is a disappointment.. wish we had a build utilizing it.. and jokingly it would be fun to have a triple wield rogue.. (dagger in the mouth).. ya i know that's silly.. but is it?.. lol
The mid game so fun is because the agility skills are flashy yet still usable damage, different story in late game
It actually frustrates me that basic skills are stronger than core at the moment. Doesn't make sense.
Rapid Gambits doesn't reset Metamorphosis evade CD. This has never been fixed.
This S4 mechanics basically overshadowed uniques. tempered gear > uniques atm.
I would agree, rogue is in a weird spot right now compare to other classes. Either play the strongest build or the weakest build in content climbing; no in between.
I wish devs would give us a loadout soon because I wanted to try many different builds.
Uniques with good effects still get used. Its mostly the weapon uniques that got obliterated by tempering, the weapon tempers are better than basically all the unique effects
I think Wudi talked about it a bit in the podcast ep they did, but it seems like D4 is trying not to just adopt every idea immediately and bloat the game at the expense of other aspects. Although it does sound like some form of loadouts is coming eventually.
With levelling being so easy now, it might be better to have a separate character for completely different builds. Otherwise, with loadouts it's actually going to be very tedious being forced to constantly swap loadouts (and needing specialized gear) for every activity. Not having loadout-swapping like that keeps your character centered around one main set of gear
Levelling more characters this season also has the side-benefit of giving you extra Resplendent sparks, at least :P
The dual core problem is one that pretty much applies to all classes... All builds seem to have one way to damage enemies and the rest is there either for defense or to make that one damage skill stronger. It's so boring... I've considered builds where you have your area clear skill and then a single target nuke but it just doesn't work because either one or both is going to suck and neither will ever be as strong as if you do specialize. And it makes for such boring gameplay... (Even though I do like current state of the game, but it should improve more).
Also lucky hit has been an iffy mechanic from the start. I think it's even worse for sorc where almost all their skills have terrible lucky hit chance but they have a lot of passives that rely on lucky hit. There are builds that work, sure, but if you're just looking at the skill tree there is much more that doesn't work than that does. Also some skills look like they should work like firewall and blizzard state that they have a high lucky hit chance, but I think this is the chance that a monster that stays in the area of effect for the entire duration gets lucky hit once.... So actually the chance is terrible. Then other skills that have a 4% lucky hit and you get a passive that is 20%... So one in 125 hits I will get this effect? Oh yeah Blizzard that's the power fantasy I signed up for! 😢
It's much appreciated that you put it out front that you are talking about rogue. It seems like almost every ""D4" video I watch turns out to be someone spending the entire time talking about necro and I feel a bit tricked because I never signed up to watch another necro video.
Blizz needs to let us temper uniques. Barely any build uses any and thats just sad
They should replace shadow clone with buffed Shadow Power from D3.
Do Sorc next, way more problems with that class IMO
cool that i played this sesion TW clone with just a good experience
Tempers for many classes should be updated going forward. Some tempers are utterly useless while others are literally godly, all within same recipe, That creates noob traps.
I was on my barb earlier and thinking to myself… they need to nerf sorc.
Greatly appreciated Wudijo!