I spent half my life with a covert narcissist before I was, thankfully, discarded. I didn't know what to call it at the time but I will say..everything got better. Thank you for your insight.
You probably dont give a shit but does any of you know a trick to get back into an Instagram account..? I was dumb lost the account password. I would appreciate any tips you can give me
Oh the fortune I have spent in therapy as an #INFJ untangling the massive knot of emotions created by a mother suffering with covert narcissism. But the light of healing is on the horizon. I moved away with my two young kids and went no contact a month ago. I feel so free!! That twilight zone feeling. OMG! 😱
Hi! I am an INFJ and recently discovered I was being so abussed by a covert narcissist... I also got to the AHA moment through a lot of research (some of the sources you mentioned)....later I found out I am an INFJ..and found your channel...so it was very nice listening your explanation of narcissism from your unique point of view...so much better than a psicologist! This is really a heart- breaking experience to go through...but anyway... The future is ahead waiting for me I won't let this put me down any more ...Thank you soooo much for these videos.... I just found your channel so I am going to check all out....your explanation really is helping me heal. I send you a very very Big hug....all the way from Argentina! Take care.
it is a very heartbreaking experience. my ex-husband is a narc and it's been so painful my whole life dealing with it. I STUPIDLY went back to him several times over the years but he got WORSE as he got older. very tragic to my heart ... I moved on intellectually but somehow not quite emotionally. So ... on it goes. I refuse to go back for more but still have old residual feelings left over that I'm stuck with.
My mother is a covert narcissist and I am a INFJ. Take it day by day because its is a heartbreaking experience and in this case do what is best for you. If you have to cut them off then that's what you need to do.
No video has hit me so hard. As a very empathic person (and an INFJ), I've encountered this covert type of narcissist in my life. And they became very close to me before I understood how toxic it was. It could go from them saying nice things and being lovely to totally agressive behaviour and I was always "doing something wrong" or "I was wrong" because their opinion is always right. It's so sad realizing all the red flags much much later, when you've been hurt extremely badly. Thank you for so much insight on important things!
I just want to let you know that watching your videos on narcissists has saved my life. The more I watched the more I recognised virtually every facet in this person, who I finally felt able to block out for good. And I feel so much better. Thank you.
I found out I was an INFJ after leaving a covert narcissist. I door slammed them before I knew what that meant. Our arguments weren’t about solving the problem, but were about them explaining to me how they are right and I am wrong and the whole thing was my fault. I spent 15 years with this person and had no clue because I was down in it. I really appreciate your videos because they have helped me to grow and understand myself on a deeper level. I’ve tried to find reasons as to why I couldn’t be an INFJ, but The more I learn the more I relate to the explanations. I feel that learning more about myself will lead me to find a healthy relationship that has the deep connection I need.
It fascinates me that this type of person is the same everywhere portraying all the same behaviour and tactics. Almost like they went to school for it. Freaky. If funds are an issue to find therapy go to your doctor and they will assign you to talk to a councillor or at least get started in talking to someone. You most likely will have physical symptoms chronic anxiety depression high blood pressure etc. Since they isolate you from friends once I left I was totally alone. Found my new family on Facebook support groups for narcissism and infj. They were my support and I totally related to them. Was healing to even help others in the situations to find their way to leave such harmful environments. If your in a relationship and they absolutely hate one of your friends really ask yourself why. They may be worried your friend is calling them out on bad behaviour and their scared you’ll figure them out. Looking forward your next topics Clayton. Thank you. Learning lots 🤓🧐
Yes. Nationality, language or ethnity doesnt matter. They all same. Look at childish Trump- lower- lesser. :) Try: Knowing the narcissist channel. Lots of answers there. ruclips.net/user/results?search_query=knowing+the+narcissist
Your intelligence on this subject is so spot on. My Mum, who took for ever for me to diagnose her as a narcissist...I went with the passive aggressive thing at first. But the more I suffered, the more I searched..just nice to have the exact same thoughts, although there was one thing I'd never really realised. This thing about 'feelings are facts' this is my mum to a tee!. Weird, because as an empath you trust your feelings..H xx
I know someone that has almost all of those traits of a covert narcissist. I understand why I was confused all the time. I pointed out many times that this is mind f**kry but that for making it crystal clear to me. It’s more than 8 years with one person. And I still live with one now. I don’t know how long it’ll take me to heal as I have absolutely no one to turn to or talk with
A lot of times I can’t manage to keep listening when someone talks about this topic because I don’t feel they actually have the understanding. It’s probably the personality type. You’ve been there and you know what it’s like to be INFJ that’s dealing or has dealt with a narcissist. Thank you for putting this out there for us. You just saved me so much time and pain as I was trying to make up my mind about a narcissist in my life.. I won’t look back at that with any guilt.. thank you 🤍
Clay, after "clashing" with a narc for the first time in my life not long ago I dove into research because I needed to understand it... I needed to come to the bottom of a behaviour that didn't make sense logically and applying reason during that "clash" got me nowhere and left me puzzled. I also learned I'm an INFJ and you're putting all my thoughts into words for me here and in your other videos. It feels like you're a male version of me I shit you not. You're wonderful, thank you for what you do.
Yes, very usefull...! I really hoped to find some day some explanation for my horrortrip in 2018, where i "got lost" on a big trip. . .cause i had to realize that i was with 2 Narcissists, at least one of them was a Covert Narcissist. Till now i am pondering about these girls. Cause what happened to me was too crazy to get over it easily. The Story: I knew them from different backgrounds. With the Covert i traveled to Paris, where she broke me down (verbally) in the worst way i ever expirienced, so i had to leave her in the middle of nowhere. Then i finished my trip alone to met the other friend (a long distance friendship, i knew here from my study-time in Rome). This was a deep trustworthy friendship, i thought. But there was i huge trouble before and my goal was to restore the friendship by visiting her. But with her it was so confusing, again. . in the end i knew instinctively i would never see here again, cause she would end the friendship afterwards. And so it happened. But it's hardly to explain what really was happening between her and me, in both cases, i can only say i found some really helpfull content in this video, so thanks for sharing!!!! Thanks Clay. All the Best, Caroline
Totally eye-opening! I really wonder how you've accumulated all these insights and managed to condense them in these bite-sized pieces... so helpful for the rest of us.
Probably because he's been through all of it himself. Multiple times. It's sad, but for INFJ-types, it can take repeated abusive treatment to really see what's going on and develop confidence. That's how it is for me, anyways. We have to actively think about our boundaries and if they are being disrespected in order to see the truth.
2:49 If you don't seek counseling, watch videos about Narcissistic abuse... Or about how you can tell if someone is narcissistic. You will start seeing the patterns in some of the people you know...
My goodness you are on point. It took me 34 years to work out what was going on. Since separation everything you said has happened during the last 4 meetings all our “friends” think she is wonderful and I am the monster. No body understands except my brother. In fact it is the same behaviour that I didn’t notice for 34 years. Trouble is I want to help her out of this madness. It is probably impossible so I must move on.
I'm an INFJ raised by an ESTP covert narcissist and an INFJ covert narcissist (which is weird. Her shadow stack has sorta taken over her normal functions, but I can see that she is indeed an INFJ with an overdeveloped Se, again, super weird and unhealthy, might be because she's been married to him for so long, idk), and they are highly religious. I wish I could help them change, but at the same time I sorta kinda hate them. (I'm still trying to figure out my relationship with them as I'm trapped living with them. It sucks!) Anyway, I can attest that everything that Clay has said about narcissists is definitely true. It does happen, and it is very hard to deal with. Thanks for explaining it, Clay!
Thanks so much for putting this out Clay! I'd say I've been in a similar situation where I've experienced a lot of manipulation over the years from a friend. I've doubted myself over and over, and with your video, I've realised I've made the best decision to let that person be. May the good Lord bless him lol I've moving on with my life haha
"Feelings as facts" was right on the nose for me - mildly triggering even! But I laugh about it these days. I really enjoy the clarity and thought that goes in your videos. Thank you for making them.
I wonder if any other INFJ here has experienced something similar as I have with my mother? She is a covert narcissist and a good exampel was once I was with her in a shopping mall. She was watching my daughter at an indoor playground and I asked her if I could go to some shops to look for some things. After a while I felt that I needed to go back. Knowing that this came from my mother and that my daughter was safe, I just stayed and waited. Soon after she called my phone: "Where are you? Aren´t you finished soon?" She sounded very annoyed. At that point I was testing my bounderies to her and told her I just needed five more minutes and asked if my daughter was ok. Nothing was wrong and she just snapped an ok. But what really happened was that she was bored watching her grand child, nothing more. BUT why could I feel her emotions from the other side of the mall? Today she is weaker after a period of disease, but still I need to be very careful with my bounderies and energy around her. Could this come from being an INFJ, leading with Ni and Fe? Of course it also is from growing up with her. But none of my brothers is experiencing this. Before I just thought I was too open and sensitive. I felt her emotions and wanted her to love me, so I did anything to make her happy. What a perfect situation for a covert narcissist mother to have this kind of daughter that I was. Sorry for my not so perfect English, it is not my mother tongue.
The sad thing about these narcissism and faux apology videos is that one can see themselves doing a lot of the things discussed in them. It's quite frightening. I know that a lot of it has to do with being raised by a narcissistic parent, but still. You hope that you have shed some bad behaviors, but you realize that it most definitely takes a lifetime.
It has been tremendously damaging to my life to having married and married into covert narcissists - to the point of severe health problems. The damage theses people do to others lasts a lifetime with severe effects.
Omg clay thank you so much for this video! I'm going through this now in a social group and no one else in the group knows what I'm talking about! It's so frustrating when it's so clear to me as an infj but no one else can see it. These covert narcissists do break you down from the inside and it starts to make you feel like you're going crazy. It's so true that no one can understand until they are experiencing it themselves. Thanks again for making these videos it has helped me a lot to know there are other people out there that think the way that I do as I often feel misunderstood. I guess my question is how do you deal with these covert narcissist when you still have to see them as they are part of your friendship group? I'm really struggling with this...
Your videos have been so helpful and given me a breath of fresh air knowing I'm not insane lol after dealing with four narcissist personalities, three of them who happen to be family, I feel I can move forward with my life without feeling so bad on how it will effect others. God forbid I focus on my own needs without the self centered attitudes that take away my personal time. Just takes practice! Thanks Clay:) Keep them vids coming!
As an INFJ i relate to a lot of what you are saying and my experience with a covert narcissist (INTP). It took over a year to make any sense of what was going on. Happened when i researched the topic and noticed a pattern that all the victims went through the same things. I know its on a spectrum, different traits/red flags to look out for. I think the scale tips over when the person is unable to feel empathy, like they know/learn what makes people sad or hurting but inside are unable to feel anything. They become good at acting like they care and use this to take advantage of people. I remember watching a movie where her husband died in a car crash and she blurted out "Why is she crying? she is pregnant and will get a baby". Have wondered if there is a link, like the Coverts tend to be Introverts on the MBTI?
There's an interesting pdf chapter online by Nancy McWilliams phd from her book. The chapter titled is Masochistic (Self-Defeating) Personality Disorder. Easy to find online. The book is called Psychoanalytic Analysis. Thought you may find it interesting.
Clay. Thanks so much for this video. Instead of trying to explain the topic to people, I will refer them to this vid. You did an excellent job describing the topic to the uninitiated. I've really been getting a lot of your NARC vids and INFJ related issues. I'm an INFJ and you are a treasure trove of info.👍
Thank you so much for such a heart felt narrarive in term of covert narcissists. Let me have a clear picture of the relationship between me(as an infj) and my mother , which has been torturing me for decades. It has been such a big favor you have been giving in saving my life. Truly the real spirit of charity......... I suspect there have been lots of covert narcissists ,as a mother, in Taiwan's society.
Excellent insight Clay. You hit the nail on the head . After decades and beyond that, I’ve been dealing with covert narcissism, which I found out the name for maybe about 4 years ago. Somehow, I’ve managed to stay the course throughout the years. Unfortunately, it’s cost me my health. I was blessed to have a liver transplant due to my drinking too much due to a spouse and other family members who did the same thing. To this day, I still want to escape. It’s eerily true the part you say where it always seems like something’s wrong. Thanks be to God and everyone involved in helping me get physically better than ever, though. I can relate to your experiences with Christian churches and hypocrisy. We need to find our own way , individually., for sure. Sometimes I wish I could just walk out. There are a few reasons why I can’t- primarily at this point financial. The thing I have to accept is that covert narcissists are very stubborn. So my idea of having improvement and return to a sweeter life are stuck in that reality…so I guess I will try to take care of myself, live by my values, continue to give and love others and hope that will be enough.
Thanks for putting up this video and this is exactly the issue that I have had to deal with my spouse. Just trying to put it into words but never really could but you broke it down perfectly. The tougher part about this is like you said, you are made to feel that you are the weird one and then you try and talk to someone else and realize that no you are nkt the crazy one. Just was glad that someone described this in detail as this was extremely helpful and thanks for what you do for this group.
Thank you. You have described actually what I experienced over a 6 year relationship. Finally kicked him out but I still have times I doubt myself but videos like this help!
uffda-I'm dealing with going thru a parenting evaluation thanks to a covert martyr/seductive etc. narcissist/sociopath. thank you for your video-it gave me really good things to point out-since explaining my situation & my misdiagnosis' has proved to seem quite confusing and hard for most folks to understand-especially any attorney. 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻❤
Thank you so much for this video! It happened to me at Church that I really want to help. It was so unfortunate that, I was surrounded by people whose lack empathy. I went into deep depression twice without understanding why the pains cut so deep in my heart. Then, I found my INFJ personality, I met therapist and my husband start to understand and support me. We realised it was because we don't have boundaries with Church people. Never again we will trust people blindly.😭
Oh yes to the leaving out information bit as a form of deception. Apparently, it was okay that he hid a crack addiction from me. He never lied about it ... because I never asked him if he had a crack addiction. Smh.
I was in a Situation Ship, now that I cam transform Relationship. I was involved with one, who I never knew they were a COVERT NARCISSIST, 15years, I did not know, I began to investigate the stories, CHEATING, lies, disagreements all of which were 1 sided. Trying to force me into dealings without laying out the details, but forcing THiER AGENDA ,without input BUT wanted money for it, I GOT AWAY, ENOUGH WAS ENOUGH ONCE I REALIZED I WAS THER AND THEY WEREN'T. I DISMISSED THIS DYSFUNCTIONAL FAMILY, I DIDN'T KNOW I WAS BEING AB USED N ABUSED , I SLAMMED THAT DOOR SYMBOLICALLY IN THEIR FACE, TO NEVER RETURN.
thank you for another eye opening conversation. Please do make more similar videos. Your perspective and insight makes an impact on me and I am convinced on all the people who daily just survived living and working with toxic people. Thank you for opening our eyes in order to change the behavior
I've been married to a Christian covert narcissist for 26 years. I didn't know what the problem was until, maybe, about 5 years ago when i learned about narcissism. No one else really knows except our son, who was the one to first start pointing out what was happening. At this point I'm just stuck because of a handful of circumstances and finances.
I get that and feel for you. It can be super hard to figure these things out, and then live with confidence even though nobody knows what you're talking about. I think solid boundaries are a good place to start.
40 years for me...it was my daughter who helped break the spell..2 years ago..still with her due to financial & medical issues...which have tortured me for 35 of 40 years...just unbelievable...that this covert narcissist/ Jezebel spirit has just crushed my physical person...not absorbing the toxic mojo,praying for help to b delivered from this spirit
I can identify with a lot of these traits. But I do have C-PTSD and BPD. Some of these points can look manipulative and dismissive, but it's because it is a defense mechanism and not a means to hurt the other person. A lot of people with BPD actually are INFJs, we split on our partners, we are very intuitive when it comes to other peoples feelings, but most often interpret them in a negative way, we have intense inner monologues and are also walking contradictions. A lot of black and white thinking. "The door slam" = splitting on somebody. Extreme paranoia, over-thinking, abuse of drugs and alcohol to numb the emptiness, getting interested in certain topics or hobbies, only to not enjoy them any longer after a few days or weeks. But I have enough insight to understand that I want to understand the people around me for the sake of simply "getting" them. I find it extremely interesting to understand why people are the way they are and do the things they do. I want to know how they tick. It is tricky. I do care a lot and when somebody tells me something bad that has happened, it is like I feel their pain within my own body, but I don't know what to do from then on. I cannot comfort people. I ask them questions about how they feel about the situation, but often I can't handle it at all. I'd rather analyze than comfort in these scenarios. But I do want them to feel better, simply because the situation makes me so uncomfortable. Maybe because I want to continue connecting again. I am extremely selfish in that regard.
My mother and one of my sisters are both covert narcissists. But, to be fair, my sister in question also has been diagnosed as a sociopath by two different psychologists. So, there is that. Lol. I have gotten to be able to see actual narcissists well, even when no one can. I call their rhetoric as 'lip service'.
Wow. This has almost changed my life. This is my first exposure to this information and it explains so much of an extremely difficult time in my life! Is it possible to please make a video about the difference between Borderline Personality Disorder and Covert Narcissism? I'm having trouble differentiating. The person I know seems to display 90% of the qualities of both disorders.
I think a thing to remember is people can have multiple personality disorders. In fact, I've even heard that if a person has one cluster B disorder, they are likely to have another. I have also heard that it's possible that 'covert' narcissists are more likely to be combined with borderline, and 'overt' are more likely to be combined with antisocial personality disorder (psychopath). So yeah, I would say you're not crazy here and it's very possible for a person to have both.
I was experiencing some deep loneliness lately and decided to reopen a door to my ex whom I door slammed 8 months ago because I suspected he was a covert narcissist. But, I kept wondering if I’m just being paranoid etc, maybe it’s me. And I’m feeling that way again, like I just cannot trust this guy, he is doing his tricks again. I still doubt myself, I always doubt myself. But, here is a fact: last night he did a major guilt trip and emotional tear down of me over the phone, bringing up the past and of course leaving out details. I was mostly quiet (quietly crying, only answering one word answers) and he said he knows I was hurting and asked if he could call me the next morning, I said okay. He never called. This is someone who claims he loves me. That is the most recent BS. And he’s an ISFJ, very good with articulating himself. I’m an ISTP and my memory is not the best and my Fe is needy in relationships, I feel like he shits all over my Fe. I told him 3 times in the last week that I feel disrespected when he wants to talk about sex as much as he does, and yet he still continued bringing it up. Someone please tell me I’m not crazy. I need truth or validation.
It's hard to make a judgement call without knowing each of you, but you're likely not crazy :) I would suggest a therapist you can dig into these things with. That can really help.
I assume you've been having trouble in this department with some people, for that I'm sorry. Another element to this too is that some people can get addicted to the emotional drama that these types of people bring them. At first a lot of people balk at even entertaining that notion, but once they do some work, often in therapy, they discover this. Even if we hate certain things, or ways some people treat us, we can sometimes unconsciously attract/go after them simply because they are familiar. People can't break that cycle until they actually consciously know they are doing it. This was the case with me.
yes I agree actually. A lot of people that end up with narcissists almost seem to be attracted to it in some sick way. I'm personally trying to break that pattern.
I feel that being an INFJ, the borderline for the covert narcissist and INFJ are really close. These are the reasons behind my thinking: 1.) I think in the stressful situation and if you trust the person you can go to a child-like behavior or victim situation as you are truly hurt by them or the others who did that. And it is said venting it out helps to relieve those pain as an INFJ and be more of yourself. 2.) This leads to my second point where guilt-tripping can also happen as a fact of being hurt. I may be wrong on these and will appreciate it if someone can share their viewpoints here to help me understand the difference in INFJ behavior and covert narcissist behavior.
INFJ will hold those feelings in and show compassion for the narcissist. That's why so many stories of staying with them for years. There's also a sense of failure if you leave because if you just tried harder. There is guilt and shame on both sides but for different reasons. A spiritual person hurts the most because doesn't love solve everything?
On point years ago i didnt know that when i person leaves an u feel drained vampire energy use ti want to take Mondays off of work. Cause he spent weekends tgen be came norm for me to feel tired all the tine. Went to doc for fatigue told me fibermangia which at this point had began affecting nerves system little did i know
My narc would constantly use pity plays and guilt trips to make me feel that I was doing the wrong thing by her. She could be grandiose in overt ways at times, but it wasn't consistent. Backhanded compliments were also used and subtle digs that were essentially projection.
Because they know if it’s 100% negative, you would see their true colors. Now I think about it, the narc I know would start with their victims card, then talk about how I’m their good friend and that I helped them survive this and that and telling me they need me.. it could be just to tell them things in return so that they feel better about themselves or to ask me for a favor
@@fatimahamer7131 Maybe, but I also think it's because most narcissists fluctuate between grandiosity and vulnerability. It isn't just because they are 'acting'. These shifts reflect their mood and emotional instability.
@@lamentate07 how do we really understand a narcissist when we’re not one? I wonder if they can relate when they learn about narcism. I don’t think they can relate because they think they’re always right. One of the narc I know thinks he’s a victim to a narc which made it difficult for me to see him as one. But as Clay mentioned in his video, When they’re caught doing something or lying, they just deny it even with the evidence right in front of both of us
@@fatimahamer7131 Most narcs lack awareness. I don't even believe that their manipulations are generally conscious, because if they were, they would be a lot more creative and flexible. They are defense mechanisms to protect a fragile and damaged ego. People often argue that they must know what they are doing as they are mean to their significant others but not to their bosses, for example, but I don't think that proves anything. They have no emotional relationship with their bosses, and their boss is more likely to believe totally in the mask. Problems only really become evident when 'feelings' are involved or if you cross or anger the narc in some way. They compartmentalise everything.
@@lamentate07 that depends on what you mean by awareness the 2 narcs I know care a lot about their image. The last thing they want is for anyone to find out about what they’re doing to me. One made it sound he doesn’t want me to mention him at all and he wants everything to be private and it’s something “special” just for us as friends. The other one knows clearly that everything he does is wrong but his excuse is that all people go thorough ups and downs in their relationships. For example my sister would ask me to go out with her and I can’t really do that so I call her in front of him and tell her “he said I can’t go because I do that a lot” while we all know that if I sum up the times I went out with her they’ll be like 3 or 4 in a whole year. May I ask, how do/did come out of it? Do you recommend anything?
Clay, thank you so much for this video! You just described my husband, and I though I was going crazy lately. Do you have any links to the sources you mentioned in the video that you could share (about relationships with covert narcissists?)
Here's a few to check out. All these people have multiple videos on the topic so you can watch more if you like one of them. I think all of these people know what they're talking about. ruclips.net/video/-WVLZXLyO-M/видео.html ruclips.net/video/nWjHr44zuis/видео.html ruclips.net/video/GoRZXL8qk20/видео.html ruclips.net/video/3_JFRy0G0nQ/видео.html
What I was wondering about my ex the whole time if it was his ADHD (causing him to act out at certain moments) or him being a narcisist.. because a lot of stuff overlaps (being extremely emotional, impulsive etc) so I kept making up excuses like "o it must be his ADHD" and "he is a sensitive person" etc.. so I really struggled with finding the cause of his anger/frustration/shame.. but then I saw a video about ADHD and this guy said, ADHD can make someone really emotional, but doesn't mean he can act like an a$$.. so that's when I learned he is a covert narcisist with ADHD.. it took me quite some time but now I finally recognise it
I had the same situation with an ex friend; and finally reached the same conclusion. The neurodiversity gets used as a permanent excuse. It's plausible deniability, and it's gaslighting, and especially after many attempts to resolve an issue directly, it's deliberate. It's abuse.
I am at my wits end I deal with this every day of my life for ever I dont know who I am any more and reality seems fleeting. Is there any way to fix them or should I just run like hell. Im stuck loving this person and feeling like Im the bad guy always. She has never been wrong. how do you break free. Any good advice would be very appreciated. Every time I stand up from getting up off the floor she kicks my legs out with some of her crazy shit. And Im left feeling insane.???????
Hmm, nothing specific to INFJs. Although, many of the content about narcissism apply a to INFJs I would say because for whatever reason we seem to be extra susceptible to them.
I suspect my mother is this… No real communication, just humility and obssessed love towards me, but not understanding. She is under extreme stress all the time and always of fragile health. Obssession with cleanliness. She believes she is perfect mother, and I’m her perfect child who distanced herself from her by force and due to insecurities. She always reminded me of empty talk of politicians, since she is very good verbally and intelectually on dealing with various issues that affect her. I don’t know what my problem is, so I appear problematic, crazy and making stuff up. And when it comes to these two married women who manipulated children for influence… This is unluckly combination, which might be used by anti-Lgbt people to invalidate gay marriages.
How does one know they aren't a narc themselves? I feel so confused about some of the examples like I cant figure out if I was being gaslit (im 99% sure of what actually happened and yet when people deny it I just question myself and wonder if i was being manipulative?)
@@ClayArnall In a nutshell, I had all of these traits in my 20 year marriage. I'm willing to admit I have narcissist traits which is highly unlike a narcissist. However, in my current relationship I'm hearing all the same things and I know I need to change if I want this to work...which I do.
If you want knowledge read Go to conferences Get therapy with good therapists Understand your inner self. Look at yourself too. Everyone has traits of narcissism Dont kid yourselves
Its not that difficult to perceive such people. Go into any religious community They are all there. People who believe they are so generous kind and good. They project a humility that is nauseating and sickly. I witnessed this in places like convent and people who are highly religious...self righteousness sanctimonious and horrible
Hay. Well first thank you for the video.. I'm watching you for a well now and it finely find me. Like I stared to ander sand what I dit'n.. Now that I licensed to you vido and to be honest. I'm in this relationship right now.. But only relasies it now... My question is how do I get out of it but don't hurt anyone. Luke to lite go. To do it for me but don't hurt the person? Thank you again
I'm not sure it's easy to get out of a relationship AND not hurt anybody. You need to worry about yourself first and foremost if you're in a narcissistic relationship. You need to end the relationship in a clear way and then put up boundaries so they can't use manipulation on you to get you back. After you break up, they will often start the 'love bombing' phase where they act like everything you've ever wanted. But if you fall for it and take them back, the cycle will just start all over again.
@@incisiveshadow5593 You're right. I watched a few videos on covert narcissism later that day and hated to admit that I identified with more points on that list than I had liked to admit. I was raised by a narcissist and have BPD and CPTSD as well, so that wouldn't come as such as a surprise. What I found funny was that the video was made by an INFJ and the comments were mostly ignoring their own narcissistic tendencies and focused only on that somebody around them had wronged them. But we do attract these people. Why though? Well why do we think.
@@annerittwage1401 Yes, the latest line of thought is that covert narcissism is a type of CPTSD. Yes, narcissists will often project onto others by calling everyone else narcissists. The INFJ community is actually full of narcs calling everyone else narcs. The INFJ narcissist I dated called me a narcissist too. The good thing is you are able to self-reflect and be honest with yourself. This means you have a good chance at healing and fixing these tendencies. Most narcissists simply can not admit any wrongdoing ever.
I have to ask this question that if we get in a situation in work for example, that we are facing with a narsissist and we know it but avoiding that person because of job status is impossible what should we do?
Depends on how badly their narcissistic behavior is affecting you and your performance at work. If their behavior is making it impossible to remain sane at work and do your work comfortably, the only thing you can do is look for a new job .
Hey I have a few question for you! What should I do when my wife of 9 years, shows 96% of these qualities (both videos)? I don't have any family because both of my parents were abused and moved away from their families. In turn they both became abusive so I don't really have any family I can count on. My childhood soulmate died when I was 18 and their response was to get over it and stop hiding in the basement(after a week). So I ran away with the next girl I met which ended up giving me an ultimatum to move around the world or it's over. So now after I moved back to my birth city, I have very few friends that have time to even talk anymore. I know how trapped I am but I don't really know much of a way out and could use some advise. What should an INFJ-A do in this situation because both of my wife's parents were also abusive and I can't figure out if I should stay or go?
It’s impossible for me to say really, only you can make that decision. But I know from personal experience how hard a decision like this can be. I find a few sessions with a good councillor can go along way to sorting out hard issues like this.
Mr.TrueMan I feel absolute trust shouldn’t be overemphasized in a relationship, smartness is also very important. There’s a popular saying that “don’t trust too much because that too much might hurt you so much”. A Narcissist shouldn’t be trusted, they’re toxic!. My greatest disappointment was discovering my wife cheating on me through the help of Cyberhackingsage who helped cloned her cellphone and i was able to read all her messages and uncover my wife’s infidelity without having to touch her phone. All i did was share my wife’s number with Cyberhackingsage and i got access to her Facebook, WhatsApp and text messages both deleted and incoming ones with a link on my phone. Thanks to Cyberhackingsage, now i have enough evidence for my divorce. You can contact him ( cyberhackingsage@gmail )Or Text/Call and WhatsApp him on +15713758467. Thank me later.
I spent half my life with a covert narcissist before I was, thankfully, discarded. I didn't know what to call it at the time but I will say..everything got better. Thank you for your insight.
Im Sorry If It Was Family
You probably dont give a shit but does any of you know a trick to get back into an Instagram account..?
I was dumb lost the account password. I would appreciate any tips you can give me
Oh the fortune I have spent in therapy as an #INFJ untangling the massive knot of emotions created by a mother suffering with covert narcissism. But the light of healing is on the horizon. I moved away with my two young kids and went no contact a month ago. I feel so free!! That twilight zone feeling. OMG! 😱
God, I can relate. How's it going now?
Hi! I am an INFJ and recently discovered I was being so abussed by a covert narcissist... I also got to the AHA moment through a lot of research (some of the sources you mentioned)....later I found out I am an INFJ..and found your channel...so it was very nice listening your explanation of narcissism from your unique point of view...so much better than a psicologist! This is really a heart- breaking experience to go through...but anyway... The future is ahead waiting for me I won't let this put me down any more ...Thank you soooo much for these videos.... I just found your channel so I am going to check all out....your explanation really is helping me heal. I send you a very very Big hug....all the way from Argentina! Take care.
Sister Ernestina, keep healing. I am.we can do this, and these videos are fantastic. 💜
it is a very heartbreaking experience. my ex-husband is a narc and it's been so painful my whole life dealing with it. I STUPIDLY went back to him several times over the years but he got WORSE as he got older. very tragic to my heart ... I moved on intellectually but somehow not quite emotionally. So ... on it goes. I refuse to go back for more but still have old residual feelings left over that I'm stuck with.
My mother is a covert narcissist and I am a INFJ. Take it day by day because its is a heartbreaking experience and in this case do what is best for you. If you have to cut them off then that's what you need to do.
💖💖💖🦄🦄🦄🌹🌹🌹
No video has hit me so hard. As a very empathic person (and an INFJ), I've encountered this covert type of narcissist in my life. And they became very close to me before I understood how toxic it was. It could go from them saying nice things and being lovely to totally agressive behaviour and I was always "doing something wrong" or "I was wrong" because their opinion is always right. It's so sad realizing all the red flags much much later, when you've been hurt extremely badly. Thank you for so much insight on important things!
I just want to let you know that watching your videos on narcissists has saved my life. The more I watched the more I recognised virtually every facet in this person, who I finally felt able to block out for good. And I feel so much better. Thank you.
I found out I was an INFJ after leaving a covert narcissist. I door slammed them before I knew what that meant. Our arguments weren’t about solving the problem, but were about them explaining to me how they are right and I am wrong and the whole thing was my fault. I spent 15 years with this person and had no clue because I was down in it. I really appreciate your videos because they have helped me to grow and understand myself on a deeper level. I’ve tried to find reasons as to why I couldn’t be an INFJ, but The more I learn the more I relate to the explanations. I feel that learning more about myself will lead me to find a healthy relationship that has the deep connection I need.
It fascinates me that this type of person is the same everywhere portraying all the same behaviour and tactics. Almost like they went to school for it. Freaky. If funds are an issue to find therapy go to your doctor and they will assign you to talk to a councillor or at least get started in talking to someone. You most likely will have physical symptoms chronic anxiety depression high blood pressure etc. Since they isolate you from friends once I left I was totally alone. Found my new family on Facebook support groups for narcissism and infj. They were my support and I totally related to them. Was healing to even help others in the situations to find their way to leave such harmful environments. If your in a relationship and they absolutely hate one of your friends really ask yourself why. They may be worried your friend is calling them out on bad behaviour and their scared you’ll figure them out. Looking forward your next topics Clayton. Thank you. Learning lots 🤓🧐
Yes. Nationality, language or ethnity doesnt matter. They all same. Look at childish Trump- lower- lesser. :) Try: Knowing the narcissist channel. Lots of answers there.
ruclips.net/user/results?search_query=knowing+the+narcissist
I also recommend: Growth after abuse.
Smh.... I have never......ever... everytime I click on the video. You’re in my head. 👌🏼 I wish I could hug you. Always blows my mind. Thank you
CynicalPiscean yessss!! Like finally someone understands lol
yes, the "smugness" is ALL telling about them ... that's the ONLY way I can spot one ... lol
This is brilliant! Pure INFJ = getting to the heart of what's going on & why. ty!!
Wow, Clay... Narcissists making "Feelings into Facts". That's Brilliant!!!
-Never heard that on any Narcissism or abuse videos ever. -Cheers!
Your intelligence on this subject is so spot on. My Mum, who took for ever for me to diagnose her as a narcissist...I went with the passive aggressive thing at first. But the more I suffered, the more I searched..just nice to have the exact same thoughts, although there was one thing I'd never really realised. This thing about 'feelings are facts' this is my mum to a tee!. Weird, because as an empath you trust your feelings..H xx
I know someone that has almost all of those traits of a covert narcissist. I understand why I was confused all the time. I pointed out many times that this is mind f**kry but that for making it crystal clear to me. It’s more than 8 years with one person. And I still live with one now. I don’t know how long it’ll take me to heal as I have absolutely no one to turn to or talk with
I feel saner having listened to this. Thank ye.
A lot of times I can’t manage to keep listening when someone talks about this topic because I don’t feel they actually have the understanding. It’s probably the personality type. You’ve been there and you know what it’s like to be INFJ that’s dealing or has dealt with a narcissist.
Thank you for putting this out there for us. You just saved me so much time and pain as I was trying to make up my mind about a narcissist in my life.. I won’t look back at that with any guilt.. thank you 🤍
Clay, after "clashing" with a narc for the first time in my life not long ago I dove into research because I needed to understand it... I needed to come to the bottom of a behaviour that didn't make sense logically and applying reason during that "clash" got me nowhere and left me puzzled. I also learned I'm an INFJ and you're putting all my thoughts into words for me here and in your other videos. It feels like you're a male version of me I shit you not. You're wonderful, thank you for what you do.
Yes, very usefull...! I really hoped to find some day some explanation for my horrortrip in 2018, where i "got lost" on a big trip. . .cause i had to realize that i was with 2 Narcissists, at least one of them was a Covert Narcissist. Till now i am pondering about these girls. Cause what happened to me was too crazy to get over it easily. The Story: I knew them from different backgrounds. With the Covert i traveled to Paris, where she broke me down (verbally) in the worst way i ever expirienced, so i had to leave her in the middle of nowhere. Then i finished my trip alone to met the other friend (a long distance friendship, i knew here from my study-time in Rome). This was a deep trustworthy friendship, i thought. But there was i huge trouble before and my goal was to restore the friendship by visiting her. But with her it was so confusing, again. . in the end i knew instinctively i would never see here again, cause she would end the friendship afterwards. And so it happened. But it's hardly to explain what really was happening between her and me, in both cases, i can only say i found some really helpfull content in this video, so thanks for sharing!!!! Thanks Clay. All the Best, Caroline
Totally eye-opening! I really wonder how you've accumulated all these insights and managed to condense them in these bite-sized pieces... so helpful for the rest of us.
Probably because he's been through all of it himself. Multiple times. It's sad, but for INFJ-types, it can take repeated abusive treatment to really see what's going on and develop confidence. That's how it is for me, anyways. We have to actively think about our boundaries and if they are being disrespected in order to see the truth.
This is all fantastic. I gotta say your camera focus and lighting are 💯 too. Looking forward to more... 💕 an INFJ/4w3
2:49 If you don't seek counseling, watch videos about Narcissistic abuse... Or about how you can tell if someone is narcissistic. You will start seeing the patterns in some of the people you know...
My goodness you are on point. It took me 34 years to work out what was going on. Since separation everything you said has happened during the last 4 meetings all our “friends” think she is wonderful and I am the monster. No body understands except my brother. In fact it is the same behaviour that I didn’t notice for 34 years. Trouble is I want to help her out of this madness. It is probably impossible so I must move on.
I'm an INFJ raised by an ESTP covert narcissist and an INFJ covert narcissist (which is weird. Her shadow stack has sorta taken over her normal functions, but I can see that she is indeed an INFJ with an overdeveloped Se, again, super weird and unhealthy, might be because she's been married to him for so long, idk), and they are highly religious. I wish I could help them change, but at the same time I sorta kinda hate them. (I'm still trying to figure out my relationship with them as I'm trapped living with them. It sucks!) Anyway, I can attest that everything that Clay has said about narcissists is definitely true. It does happen, and it is very hard to deal with. Thanks for explaining it, Clay!
Thanks so much for putting this out Clay! I'd say I've been in a similar situation where I've experienced a lot of manipulation over the years from a friend. I've doubted myself over and over, and with your video, I've realised I've made the best decision to let that person be. May the good Lord bless him lol I've moving on with my life haha
"Feelings as facts" was right on the nose for me - mildly triggering even! But I laugh about it these days. I really enjoy the clarity and thought that goes in your videos. Thank you for making them.
I wonder if any other INFJ here has experienced something similar as I have with my mother? She is a covert narcissist and a good exampel was once I was with her in a shopping mall. She was watching my daughter at an indoor playground and I asked her if I could go to some shops to look for some things. After a while I felt that I needed to go back. Knowing that this came from my mother and that my daughter was safe, I just stayed and waited. Soon after she called my phone: "Where are you? Aren´t you finished soon?" She sounded very annoyed. At that point I was testing my bounderies to her and told her I just needed five more minutes and asked if my daughter was ok. Nothing was wrong and she just snapped an ok. But what really happened was that she was bored watching her grand child, nothing more. BUT why could I feel her emotions from the other side of the mall? Today she is weaker after a period of disease, but still I need to be very careful with my bounderies and energy around her. Could this come from being an INFJ, leading with Ni and Fe? Of course it also is from growing up with her. But none of my brothers is experiencing this. Before I just thought I was too open and sensitive. I felt her emotions and wanted her to love me, so I did anything to make her happy. What a perfect situation for a covert narcissist mother to have this kind of daughter that I was. Sorry for my not so perfect English, it is not my mother tongue.
I'm guessing it was years of conditioning. Your intuition knows the game no matter how much they lie to us.
The sad thing about these narcissism and faux apology videos is that one can see themselves doing a lot of the things discussed in them. It's quite frightening. I know that a lot of it has to do with being raised by a narcissistic parent, but still. You hope that you have shed some bad behaviors, but you realize that it most definitely takes a lifetime.
It has been tremendously damaging to my life to having married and married into covert narcissists - to the point of severe health problems. The damage theses people do to others lasts a lifetime with severe effects.
Omg clay thank you so much for this video! I'm going through this now in a social group and no one else in the group knows what I'm talking about! It's so frustrating when it's so clear to me as an infj but no one else can see it. These covert narcissists do break you down from the inside and it starts to make you feel like you're going crazy. It's so true that no one can understand until they are experiencing it themselves. Thanks again for making these videos it has helped me a lot to know there are other people out there that think the way that I do as I often feel misunderstood. I guess my question is how do you deal with these covert narcissist when you still have to see them as they are part of your friendship group? I'm really struggling with this...
I love how simplified you can make things but still have a lot of info, and yet enough to watch it again and understand it deeper!
Your videos have been so helpful and given me a breath of fresh air knowing I'm not insane lol after dealing with four narcissist personalities, three of them who happen to be family, I feel I can move forward with my life without feeling so bad on how it will effect others. God forbid I focus on my own needs without the self centered attitudes that take away my personal time. Just takes practice! Thanks Clay:)
Keep them vids coming!
As an INFJ i relate to a lot of what you are saying and my experience with a covert narcissist (INTP). It took over a year to make any sense of what was going on.
Happened when i researched the topic and noticed a pattern that all the victims went through the same things.
I know its on a spectrum, different traits/red flags to look out for. I think the scale tips over when the person is unable to feel empathy, like they know/learn what makes people sad or hurting but inside are unable to feel anything. They become good at acting like they care and use this to take advantage of people.
I remember watching a movie where her husband died in a car crash and she blurted out "Why is she crying? she is pregnant and will get a baby".
Have wondered if there is a link, like the Coverts tend to be Introverts on the MBTI?
thank you for the insightful information - everything you're saying makes so much sense!
There's an interesting pdf chapter online by Nancy McWilliams phd from her book. The chapter titled is Masochistic (Self-Defeating) Personality Disorder. Easy to find online. The book is called Psychoanalytic Analysis. Thought you may find it interesting.
Clay. Thanks so much for this video. Instead of trying to explain the topic to people, I will refer them to this vid. You did an excellent job describing the topic to the uninitiated. I've really been getting a lot of your NARC vids and INFJ related issues. I'm an INFJ and you are a treasure trove of info.👍
Thank you so much for such a heart felt narrarive in term of covert narcissists. Let me have a clear picture of the relationship between me(as an infj) and my mother , which has been torturing me for decades. It has been such a big favor you have been giving in saving my life. Truly the real spirit of charity......... I suspect there have been lots of covert narcissists ,as a mother, in Taiwan's society.
Excellent insight Clay. You hit the nail on the head . After decades and beyond that, I’ve been dealing with covert narcissism, which I found out the name for maybe about 4 years ago. Somehow, I’ve managed to stay the course throughout the years. Unfortunately, it’s cost me my health. I was blessed to have a liver transplant due to my drinking too much due to a spouse and other family members who did the same thing. To this day, I still want to escape. It’s eerily true the part you say where it always seems like something’s wrong. Thanks be to God and everyone involved in helping me get physically better than ever, though. I can relate to your experiences with Christian churches and hypocrisy. We need to find our own way , individually., for sure. Sometimes I wish I could just walk out. There are a few reasons why I can’t- primarily at this point financial. The thing I have to accept is that covert narcissists are very stubborn. So my idea of having improvement and return to a sweeter life are stuck in that reality…so I guess I will try to take care of myself, live by my values, continue to give and love others and hope that will be enough.
You have the best radio voice. Have you thought of doing audiobooks? 100%
Thanks for putting up this video and this is exactly the issue that I have had to deal with my spouse. Just trying to put it into words but never really could but you broke it down perfectly. The tougher part about this is like you said, you are made to feel that you are the weird one and then you try and talk to someone else and realize that no you are nkt the crazy one. Just was glad that someone described this in detail as this was extremely helpful and thanks for what you do for this group.
Thank you. You have described actually what I experienced over a 6 year relationship. Finally kicked him out but I still have times I doubt myself but videos like this help!
I 've never though someone can be precise..ur on the spot with everything..GOD BLESS U
uffda-I'm dealing with going thru a parenting evaluation thanks to a covert martyr/seductive etc. narcissist/sociopath. thank you for your video-it gave me really good things to point out-since explaining my situation & my misdiagnosis' has proved to seem quite confusing and hard for most folks to understand-especially any attorney. 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻❤
Thank you so much for this video!
It happened to me at Church that I really want to help.
It was so unfortunate that, I was surrounded by people whose lack empathy.
I went into deep depression twice without understanding why the pains cut so deep in my heart.
Then, I found my INFJ personality, I met therapist and my husband start to understand and support me.
We realised it was because we don't have boundaries with Church people. Never again we will trust people blindly.😭
Oh yes to the leaving out information bit as a form of deception. Apparently, it was okay that he hid a crack addiction from me. He never lied about it ... because I never asked him if he had a crack addiction. Smh.
the single person to dislike this was a narcissist that got called out.
it's a hard pill to swallow, to see it for what it is.....but liberating
Thanks Clay everyone needs protection from the user narcissist...
OMG is this "spot on."
I was in a Situation Ship, now that I cam transform Relationship. I was involved with one, who I never knew they were a COVERT NARCISSIST, 15years, I did not know, I began to investigate the stories, CHEATING, lies, disagreements all of which were 1 sided. Trying to force me into dealings without laying out the details, but forcing THiER AGENDA ,without input BUT wanted money for it, I GOT AWAY, ENOUGH WAS ENOUGH ONCE I REALIZED I WAS THER AND THEY WEREN'T. I DISMISSED THIS DYSFUNCTIONAL FAMILY, I DIDN'T KNOW I WAS BEING AB USED N ABUSED , I SLAMMED THAT DOOR SYMBOLICALLY IN THEIR FACE, TO NEVER RETURN.
thank you for another eye opening conversation. Please do make more similar videos. Your perspective and insight makes an impact on me and I am convinced on all the people who daily just survived living and working with toxic people.
Thank you for opening our eyes in order to change the behavior
I've been married to a Christian covert narcissist for 26 years. I didn't know what the problem was until, maybe, about 5 years ago when i learned about narcissism. No one else really knows except our son, who was the one to first start pointing out what was happening. At this point I'm just stuck because of a handful of circumstances and finances.
I get that and feel for you. It can be super hard to figure these things out, and then live with confidence even though nobody knows what you're talking about. I think solid boundaries are a good place to start.
40 years for me...it was my daughter who helped break the spell..2 years ago..still with her due to financial & medical issues...which have tortured me for 35 of 40 years...just unbelievable...that this covert narcissist/ Jezebel spirit has just crushed my physical person...not absorbing the toxic mojo,praying for help to b delivered from this spirit
yes yes yes please more videos, these are so helpful, thank you! xx
I can identify with a lot of these traits. But I do have C-PTSD and BPD. Some of these points can look manipulative and dismissive, but it's because it is a defense mechanism and not a means to hurt the other person. A lot of people with BPD actually are INFJs, we split on our partners, we are very intuitive when it comes to other peoples feelings, but most often interpret them in a negative way, we have intense inner monologues and are also walking contradictions. A lot of black and white thinking. "The door slam" = splitting on somebody. Extreme paranoia, over-thinking, abuse of drugs and alcohol to numb the emptiness, getting interested in certain topics or hobbies, only to not enjoy them any longer after a few days or weeks.
But I have enough insight to understand that I want to understand the people around me for the sake of simply "getting" them. I find it extremely interesting to understand why people are the way they are and do the things they do. I want to know how they tick. It is tricky. I do care a lot and when somebody tells me something bad that has happened, it is like I feel their pain within my own body, but I don't know what to do from then on. I cannot comfort people. I ask them questions about how they feel about the situation, but often I can't handle it at all. I'd rather analyze than comfort in these scenarios. But I do want them to feel better, simply because the situation makes me so uncomfortable. Maybe because I want to continue connecting again. I am extremely selfish in that regard.
Good job Clay 😎👍
At first I thought you said "toilet zone'. Ha ha! Well that fits too!
Excellent information
My mother and one of my sisters are both covert narcissists. But, to be fair, my sister in question also has been diagnosed as a sociopath by two different psychologists. So, there is that. Lol.
I have gotten to be able to see actual narcissists well, even when no one can. I call their rhetoric as 'lip service'.
Would you care to help me figure out if i could be a narcissist?
Lol I love your pig in the mud metaphor lol
"Unfeeling Asshole!"
Was the accusation often thrown out😎
Wow. This has almost changed my life. This is my first exposure to this information and it explains so much of an extremely difficult time in my life! Is it possible to please make a video about the difference between Borderline Personality Disorder and Covert Narcissism? I'm having trouble differentiating. The person I know seems to display 90% of the qualities of both disorders.
I think a thing to remember is people can have multiple personality disorders. In fact, I've even heard that if a person has one cluster B disorder, they are likely to have another. I have also heard that it's possible that 'covert' narcissists are more likely to be combined with borderline, and 'overt' are more likely to be combined with antisocial personality disorder (psychopath). So yeah, I would say you're not crazy here and it's very possible for a person to have both.
*Little Shaman* she knows what's up, no doubt.
I was experiencing some deep loneliness lately and decided to reopen a door to my ex whom I door slammed 8 months ago because I suspected he was a covert narcissist. But, I kept wondering if I’m just being paranoid etc, maybe it’s me. And I’m feeling that way again, like I just cannot trust this guy, he is doing his tricks again. I still doubt myself, I always doubt myself. But, here is a fact: last night he did a major guilt trip and emotional tear down of me over the phone, bringing up the past and of course leaving out details. I was mostly quiet (quietly crying, only answering one word answers) and he said he knows I was hurting and asked if he could call me the next morning, I said okay. He never called. This is someone who claims he loves me. That is the most recent BS. And he’s an ISFJ, very good with articulating himself. I’m an ISTP and my memory is not the best and my Fe is needy in relationships, I feel like he shits all over my Fe. I told him 3 times in the last week that I feel disrespected when he wants to talk about sex as much as he does, and yet he still continued bringing it up. Someone please tell me I’m not crazy. I need truth or validation.
It's hard to make a judgement call without knowing each of you, but you're likely not crazy :) I would suggest a therapist you can dig into these things with. That can really help.
Clay Arnall Thanks for your response. I talked it out with a friend and he reassured me as well. Thank you for your videos, they’re great.
I assume you've been having trouble in this department with some people, for that I'm sorry. Another element to this too is that some people can get addicted to the emotional drama that these types of people bring them. At first a lot of people balk at even entertaining that notion, but once they do some work, often in therapy, they discover this. Even if we hate certain things, or ways some people treat us, we can sometimes unconsciously attract/go after them simply because they are familiar. People can't break that cycle until they actually consciously know they are doing it. This was the case with me.
yes I agree actually. A lot of people that end up with narcissists almost seem to be attracted to it in some sick way. I'm personally trying to break that pattern.
Thank you for what you do.
I feel that being an INFJ, the borderline for the covert narcissist and INFJ are really close. These are the reasons behind my thinking:
1.) I think in the stressful situation and if you trust the person you can go to a child-like behavior or victim situation as you are truly hurt by them or the others who did that. And it is said venting it out helps to relieve those pain as an INFJ and be more of yourself.
2.) This leads to my second point where guilt-tripping can also happen as a fact of being hurt.
I may be wrong on these and will appreciate it if someone can share their viewpoints here to help me understand the difference in INFJ behavior and covert narcissist behavior.
INFJ will hold those feelings in and show compassion for the narcissist. That's why so many stories of staying with them for years. There's also a sense of failure if you leave because if you just tried harder. There is guilt and shame on both sides but for different reasons. A spiritual person hurts the most because doesn't love solve everything?
On point years ago i didnt know that when i person leaves an u feel drained vampire energy use ti want to take Mondays off of work. Cause he spent weekends tgen be came norm for me to feel tired all the tine. Went to doc for fatigue told me fibermangia which at this point had began affecting nerves system little did i know
My narc would constantly use pity plays and guilt trips to make me feel that I was doing the wrong thing by her. She could be grandiose in overt ways at times, but it wasn't consistent. Backhanded compliments were also used and subtle digs that were essentially projection.
Because they know if it’s 100% negative, you would see their true colors.
Now I think about it, the narc I know would start with their victims card, then talk about how I’m their good friend and that I helped them survive this and that and telling me they need me..
it could be just to tell them things in return so that they feel better about themselves or to ask me for a favor
@@fatimahamer7131 Maybe, but I also think it's because most narcissists fluctuate between grandiosity and vulnerability. It isn't just because they are 'acting'. These shifts reflect their mood and emotional instability.
@@lamentate07 how do we really understand a narcissist when we’re not one?
I wonder if they can relate when they learn about narcism. I don’t think they can relate because they think they’re always right. One of the narc I know thinks he’s a victim to a narc which made it difficult for me to see him as one. But as Clay mentioned in his video, When they’re caught doing something or lying, they just deny it even with the evidence right in front of both of us
@@fatimahamer7131 Most narcs lack awareness. I don't even believe that their manipulations are generally conscious, because if they were, they would be a lot more creative and flexible. They are defense mechanisms to protect a fragile and damaged ego.
People often argue that they must know what they are doing as they are mean to their significant others but not to their bosses, for example, but I don't think that proves anything. They have no emotional relationship with their bosses, and their boss is more likely to believe totally in the mask.
Problems only really become evident when 'feelings' are involved or if you cross or anger the narc in some way.
They compartmentalise everything.
@@lamentate07 that depends on what you mean by awareness the 2 narcs I know care a lot about their image. The last thing they want is for anyone to find out about what they’re doing to me. One made it sound he doesn’t want me to mention him at all and he wants everything to be private and it’s something “special” just for us as friends. The other one knows clearly that everything he does is wrong but his excuse is that all people go thorough ups and downs in their relationships. For example my sister would ask me to go out with her and I can’t really do that so I call her in front of him and tell her “he said I can’t go because I do that a lot” while we all know that if I sum up the times I went out with her they’ll be like 3 or 4 in a whole year.
May I ask, how do/did come out of it? Do you recommend anything?
Thank you, Clay.
Sometimes Heros Are Narcissistic Too...Ones Ego Does A Lot In This Day Of Mirror Reflection
Clay, thank you so much for this video! You just described my husband, and I though I was going crazy lately. Do you have any links to the sources you mentioned in the video that you could share (about relationships with covert narcissists?)
Here's a few to check out. All these people have multiple videos on the topic so you can watch more if you like one of them. I think all of these people know what they're talking about.
ruclips.net/video/-WVLZXLyO-M/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/nWjHr44zuis/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/GoRZXL8qk20/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/3_JFRy0G0nQ/видео.html
This was very good.
Hehe! I Definitely wrestled the pig!😎
Good one
7 years with a narcissist and now I know it wasn’t real....any of it it seemed like a sick game to him...
Thank you ❣️
You were bang on!
What I was wondering about my ex the whole time if it was his ADHD (causing him to act out at certain moments) or him being a narcisist.. because a lot of stuff overlaps (being extremely emotional, impulsive etc) so I kept making up excuses like "o it must be his ADHD" and "he is a sensitive person" etc.. so I really struggled with finding the cause of his anger/frustration/shame.. but then I saw a video about ADHD and this guy said, ADHD can make someone really emotional, but doesn't mean he can act like an a$$.. so that's when I learned he is a covert narcisist with ADHD.. it took me quite some time but now I finally recognise it
I had the same situation with an ex friend; and finally reached the same conclusion. The neurodiversity gets used as a permanent excuse. It's plausible deniability, and it's gaslighting, and especially after many attempts to resolve an issue directly, it's deliberate. It's abuse.
I am at my wits end I deal with this every day of my life for ever I dont know who I am any more and reality seems fleeting. Is there any way to fix them or should I just run like hell. Im stuck loving this person and feeling like Im the bad guy always. She has never been wrong. how do you break free. Any good advice would be very appreciated. Every time I stand up from getting up off the floor she kicks my legs out with some of her crazy shit. And Im left feeling insane.???????
Ive had enough to day if this gotta go
Superior or maybe entitlement. 😎
Do you have any book recommendations about infj and narcissism?
Hmm, nothing specific to INFJs. Although, many of the content about narcissism apply a to INFJs I would say because for whatever reason we seem to be extra susceptible to them.
You just touch every aspect of my 16 y marriage. 2 kids... very sad. If anyone has similar, give me a word how do You cope.
I suspect my mother is this… No real communication, just humility and obssessed love towards me, but not understanding. She is under extreme stress all the time and always of fragile health. Obssession with cleanliness. She believes she is perfect mother, and I’m her perfect child who distanced herself from her by force and due to insecurities. She always reminded me of empty talk of politicians, since she is very good verbally and intelectually on dealing with various issues that affect her. I don’t know what my problem is, so I appear problematic, crazy and making stuff up.
And when it comes to these two married women who manipulated children for influence… This is unluckly combination, which might be used by anti-Lgbt people to invalidate gay marriages.
Here is an acronym for you. D.A.D = Divert, accuse, deny
How does one know they aren't a narc themselves? I feel so confused about some of the examples like I cant figure out if I was being gaslit (im 99% sure of what actually happened and yet when people deny it I just question myself and wonder if i was being manipulative?)
Watch the manipulation video for further insights.
So true so true so true so true so true 😭
I think I'm a narcissist. I'm FREAKING out!!! What do I do? How do I fix it?
Why do you think you’re a narcissist?
@@ClayArnall In a nutshell, I had all of these traits in my 20 year marriage. I'm willing to admit I have narcissist traits which is highly unlike a narcissist. However, in my current relationship I'm hearing all the same things and I know I need to change if I want this to work...which I do.
@@ClayArnall However, I'm an INFJ and highly empathic.
If you want knowledge read
Go to conferences
Get therapy with good therapists
Understand your inner self.
Look at yourself too.
Everyone has traits of narcissism
Dont kid yourselves
Its not that difficult to perceive such people.
Go into any religious community
They are all there. People who believe they are so generous kind and good. They project a humility that is nauseating and sickly.
I witnessed this in places like convent and people who are highly religious...self righteousness sanctimonious and horrible
Hay. Well first thank you for the video.. I'm watching you for a well now and it finely find me. Like I stared to ander sand what I dit'n.. Now that I licensed to you vido and to be honest. I'm in this relationship right now.. But only relasies it now... My question is how do I get out of it but don't hurt anyone. Luke to lite go. To do it for me but don't hurt the person? Thank you again
I'm not sure it's easy to get out of a relationship AND not hurt anybody. You need to worry about yourself first and foremost if you're in a narcissistic relationship. You need to end the relationship in a clear way and then put up boundaries so they can't use manipulation on you to get you back. After you break up, they will often start the 'love bombing' phase where they act like everything you've ever wanted. But if you fall for it and take them back, the cycle will just start all over again.
The irony here is that every INFJ I've ever met has been a covert narcissist...
I am an INFJ and I can confirm that. It's not "covert narcissism" though. It's a trauma response.
@@annerittwage1401 Covert narcissism is caused by trauma. And trust me, it's definitely covert narcissism.
@@incisiveshadow5593 You're right. I watched a few videos on covert narcissism later that day and hated to admit that I identified with more points on that list than I had liked to admit. I was raised by a narcissist and have BPD and CPTSD as well, so that wouldn't come as such as a surprise. What I found funny was that the video was made by an INFJ and the comments were mostly ignoring their own narcissistic tendencies and focused only on that somebody around them had wronged them. But we do attract these people. Why though? Well why do we think.
@@annerittwage1401 Yes, the latest line of thought is that covert narcissism is a type of CPTSD.
Yes, narcissists will often project onto others by calling everyone else narcissists. The INFJ community is actually full of narcs calling everyone else narcs. The INFJ narcissist I dated called me a narcissist too.
The good thing is you are able to self-reflect and be honest with yourself. This means you have a good chance at healing and fixing these tendencies. Most narcissists simply can not admit any wrongdoing ever.
I have to ask this question that if we get in a situation in work for example, that we are facing with a narsissist and we know it but avoiding that person because of job status is impossible what should we do?
Depends on how badly their narcissistic behavior is affecting you and your performance at work. If their behavior is making it impossible to remain sane at work and do your work comfortably, the only thing you can do is look for a new job .
Hey I have a few question for you! What should I do when my wife of 9 years, shows 96% of these qualities (both videos)? I don't have any family because both of my parents were abused and moved away from their families. In turn they both became abusive so I don't really have any family I can count on. My childhood soulmate died when I was 18 and their response was to get over it and stop hiding in the basement(after a week). So I ran away with the next girl I met which ended up giving me an ultimatum to move around the world or it's over. So now after I moved back to my birth city, I have very few friends that have time to even talk anymore. I know how trapped I am but I don't really know much of a way out and could use some advise. What should an INFJ-A do in this situation because both of my wife's parents were also abusive and I can't figure out if I should stay or go?
It’s impossible for me to say really, only you can make that decision. But I know from personal experience how hard a decision like this can be. I find a few sessions with a good councillor can go along way to sorting out hard issues like this.
Mr.TrueMan I feel absolute trust shouldn’t be overemphasized in a relationship, smartness is also very important. There’s a popular saying that “don’t trust too much because that too much might hurt you so much”. A Narcissist shouldn’t be trusted, they’re toxic!. My greatest disappointment was discovering my wife cheating on me through the help of Cyberhackingsage who helped cloned her cellphone and i was able to read all her messages and uncover my wife’s infidelity without having to touch her phone. All i did was share my wife’s number with Cyberhackingsage and i got access to her Facebook, WhatsApp and text messages both deleted and incoming ones with a link on my phone. Thanks to Cyberhackingsage, now i have enough evidence for my divorce. You can contact him ( cyberhackingsage@gmail )Or Text/Call and WhatsApp him on +15713758467. Thank me later.
goodshit
is basically the human carnal non God conscious persons. they don't even realize the devil is controlling them.
❤️🙏🏽✊🏽
Mmmm👈 rly
7 years with a narcissist and now I know it wasn’t real....any of it it seemed like a sick game to him...